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Oh, yes. | 0:00:43 | 0:00:45 | |
Now, you haven't done any formal archaeological | 0:00:45 | 0:00:48 | |
excavation for some time now. | 0:00:48 | 0:00:49 | |
You haven't been out with your bucket and spade. | 0:00:49 | 0:00:51 | |
Do you miss the business of excavation? | 0:00:51 | 0:00:54 | |
No. No. I did my last bucket and spade excavation in 1958. | 0:00:54 | 0:01:02 | |
I don't know how many years ago that is, | 0:01:02 | 0:01:05 | |
but I knew at the time that it was going to be my last ever. | 0:01:05 | 0:01:08 | |
Not only my last in India or Pakistan, but the last in my life. | 0:01:10 | 0:01:13 | |
And so it was. | 0:01:15 | 0:01:16 | |
And looking back, do you know, you must forgive this, to | 0:01:16 | 0:01:23 | |
my reasonable satisfaction, I think it was quite a successful goodbye. | 0:01:23 | 0:01:30 | |
I'll tell you about it briefly. | 0:01:33 | 0:01:35 | |
Let me take you first of all back to the beginning of the century, | 0:01:35 | 0:01:39 | |
to 1902, when I was a small boy who hadn't even a dream. | 0:01:39 | 0:01:43 | |
In that year, Lord Curzon was still Viceroy of India. | 0:01:46 | 0:01:52 | |
He decided, in 1902, to revive the archaeological survey of India, | 0:01:52 | 0:02:00 | |
which had...had a tentative existence of a number of occasions. | 0:02:00 | 0:02:05 | |
It had never really come to fruition. | 0:02:05 | 0:02:08 | |
He sent word back to the India Office in London, | 0:02:08 | 0:02:13 | |
"Send me out, send me out, a suitable archaeologist to take | 0:02:14 | 0:02:18 | |
"charge of this revived archaeological survey." | 0:02:18 | 0:02:22 | |
Well, that query, that inquiry, naturally, | 0:02:24 | 0:02:27 | |
went straight to the British Museum. It was the only place to send it to. | 0:02:27 | 0:02:31 | |
There were no archaeological departments in universities | 0:02:31 | 0:02:35 | |
and so on to approach. | 0:02:35 | 0:02:37 | |
And in the museum, the director of the period, | 0:02:38 | 0:02:44 | |
his name doesn't matter... What are they called? | 0:02:44 | 0:02:48 | |
..Trawled, for a candidate. | 0:02:48 | 0:02:51 | |
That is to say, he sent round circular letters to | 0:02:51 | 0:02:54 | |
all his departments saying, "Have you got anybody whom you can | 0:02:54 | 0:02:57 | |
"spare to go to India as director-general of Archaeology?" | 0:02:57 | 0:03:00 | |
And somebody, one of the departments, | 0:03:00 | 0:03:03 | |
I have a pretty good idea which, it's a long time ago, | 0:03:03 | 0:03:07 | |
sent in the name of a man called Marshall. | 0:03:07 | 0:03:09 | |
Now, the Marshall that they had in mind, I can say this, | 0:03:11 | 0:03:15 | |
with the proper, reasonable respect, | 0:03:15 | 0:03:19 | |
the Marshall they had in mind was a junior member of the staff. | 0:03:19 | 0:03:25 | |
Of one of the archaeological departments in the museum. | 0:03:25 | 0:03:31 | |
He was competent and undistinguished. | 0:03:31 | 0:03:35 | |
But they thought they could spare him. | 0:03:35 | 0:03:38 | |
So, they sent his name up to the director. | 0:03:38 | 0:03:41 | |
The director said, "Send Marshall to me." | 0:03:41 | 0:03:43 | |
Shortly afterwards, | 0:03:45 | 0:03:46 | |
the director was called away from his room for some purpose | 0:03:46 | 0:03:50 | |
elsewhere in the museum, | 0:03:50 | 0:03:52 | |
and there entered upon the scene a young man with an attractive, | 0:03:52 | 0:03:57 | |
intelligent face, called Marshall, John Marshall, who came | 0:03:57 | 0:04:02 | |
from the British School of Athens, he was a Cambridge man originally... | 0:04:02 | 0:04:07 | |
And who wanted to confer with the Director of the British Museum | 0:04:08 | 0:04:12 | |
with a view to his future career. | 0:04:12 | 0:04:14 | |
Back came the director to his room, presented... | 0:04:17 | 0:04:21 | |
This young Marshall was presented to him, the director naturally | 0:04:21 | 0:04:24 | |
thought it was the Marshall he expected to see | 0:04:24 | 0:04:29 | |
from his own staff, and... | 0:04:29 | 0:04:31 | |
He said, "Well now, look here. | 0:04:31 | 0:04:34 | |
"They want a man in India to look after the archaeological | 0:04:34 | 0:04:38 | |
"survey there. How soon can you go?" | 0:04:38 | 0:04:41 | |
"Well," said young Marshall, "I want to get married." | 0:04:41 | 0:04:43 | |
"How long will that take you?" | 0:04:43 | 0:04:45 | |
He said, "I could go in six weeks, would that be all right?" | 0:04:45 | 0:04:49 | |
"All right, I'll send word to the Viceroy that you will be | 0:04:49 | 0:04:52 | |
"in Delhi as soon as possible after the next six weeks." | 0:04:52 | 0:04:56 | |
So, after the next six weeks, they arrived in Delhi, | 0:04:57 | 0:05:01 | |
young John Marshall, of whom nobody ever heard, he was a student, | 0:05:01 | 0:05:08 | |
accompanied by his young bride. I knew them both. And... | 0:05:08 | 0:05:15 | |
Curzon took to him at once, he was an attractive young man, | 0:05:15 | 0:05:19 | |
intelligent young man. | 0:05:19 | 0:05:21 | |
Took to him. | 0:05:22 | 0:05:24 | |
In fact, every Wednesday, I was told this by Marshall himself, | 0:05:24 | 0:05:27 | |
every Wednesday the Viceroy would have Marshall in his office | 0:05:27 | 0:05:32 | |
with him so that he could hear how a subcontinent should be conducted. | 0:05:32 | 0:05:38 | |
What did Marshall do? You were going to ask me, weren't you? | 0:05:40 | 0:05:43 | |
When he got out there. I'll tell you. | 0:05:43 | 0:05:45 | |
He did what any new director-general... | 0:05:45 | 0:05:48 | |
What I did myself when I was a new director-general in India. | 0:05:48 | 0:05:51 | |
He went round India to meet his staff | 0:05:52 | 0:05:54 | |
and to see what India looked like. | 0:05:54 | 0:05:56 | |
And he began, as I later on began, up in the north-west corner, | 0:05:56 | 0:06:00 | |
what was then India, which is now India and Pakistan, | 0:06:00 | 0:06:04 | |
which was the natural entry into India from the rest of Asia by land. | 0:06:05 | 0:06:10 | |
Surrounded by the mountains which are generally hidden in mist. | 0:06:10 | 0:06:14 | |
The most romantic part of the area, if you use the word romantic, | 0:06:14 | 0:06:17 | |
which I don't. | 0:06:17 | 0:06:20 | |
There he found a series of mounds, one of them a very high one, | 0:06:20 | 0:06:24 | |
60 or 70 feet high, still there, part of it, | 0:06:24 | 0:06:29 | |
which represented the predecessor of the present Peshawar, the old | 0:06:29 | 0:06:34 | |
capital of the frontier, | 0:06:34 | 0:06:35 | |
which was known as Pushkalavati, in other words, Lotus City. | 0:06:35 | 0:06:41 | |
And, coming as he did from Greece, with the Acropolis very much | 0:06:41 | 0:06:45 | |
in his mind, he thought, "Here's another Acropolis. | 0:06:45 | 0:06:48 | |
I'll dig it up, we'll find perhaps another Parthenon on top of it." | 0:06:48 | 0:06:52 | |
So, in 1903, he carried out the first excavations in | 0:06:54 | 0:07:00 | |
modern times, but not by modern methods, I must say. | 0:07:00 | 0:07:03 | |
Modern methods in 1903 were hard to come by. They hadn't been invented. | 0:07:03 | 0:07:09 | |
But he carried out excavations there and... | 0:07:09 | 0:07:12 | |
To be quite frank, he made an awful mess of the job. | 0:07:12 | 0:07:16 | |
It was to be expected. | 0:07:16 | 0:07:18 | |
A young man with no training, and no training to match up to. | 0:07:18 | 0:07:22 | |
Well, years later, it was 1944, | 0:07:22 | 0:07:30 | |
I suppose 42 years later, another | 0:07:30 | 0:07:34 | |
English director-general began his tour in the same sort of way. | 0:07:34 | 0:07:40 | |
He went up to the frontier | 0:07:40 | 0:07:43 | |
and he went out into the great open plain which was covered with | 0:07:43 | 0:07:49 | |
sugarcane, great waving masses of green sugarcane | 0:07:49 | 0:07:52 | |
weaving like a sea, and rising out of these waves, | 0:07:52 | 0:07:57 | |
rather like a battleship at anchor, was this great mound which | 0:07:57 | 0:08:02 | |
represented the old capital city, Pushkalavati. | 0:08:02 | 0:08:06 | |
So, Mortimer Wheeler had himself been appointed director-general | 0:08:06 | 0:08:10 | |
of the archaeological survey for India in 1944. | 0:08:10 | 0:08:13 | |
But he had to wait 14 years before he could excavate the ancient | 0:08:14 | 0:08:17 | |
city of Pushkalavati. | 0:08:17 | 0:08:19 | |
The chance came in 1958, when he was invited back to the | 0:08:19 | 0:08:22 | |
frontier by the government of Pakistan. | 0:08:22 | 0:08:26 | |
I dug there. | 0:08:26 | 0:08:27 | |
But before doing so, living as I was in 1958 and not in 1902, 1903, | 0:08:27 | 0:08:34 | |
I had made arrangements beforehand with the Pakistan Air Force to | 0:08:34 | 0:08:39 | |
have an air photograph taken of the area I was going to deal with, | 0:08:39 | 0:08:45 | |
to see what that would show up. | 0:08:45 | 0:08:48 | |
I didn't think at the time, I'll be perfectly frank about it, | 0:08:48 | 0:08:51 | |
that much would happen. | 0:08:51 | 0:08:53 | |
But what did happen was this. | 0:08:53 | 0:08:56 | |
On the second day, my second day out there on the plain, | 0:08:56 | 0:09:00 | |
I was standing by the tents which we had there for workshops and | 0:09:01 | 0:09:06 | |
so on, when a jet fighter swooped down over my head, | 0:09:06 | 0:09:10 | |
almost took my hat off. | 0:09:10 | 0:09:13 | |
And it swung round and then almost poised like a dragonfly in the air. | 0:09:16 | 0:09:23 | |
I discovered afterwards, upon inquiry, | 0:09:25 | 0:09:28 | |
that what was happening was that the poor pilot had been told, | 0:09:28 | 0:09:31 | |
having been instructed in Peshawar, | 0:09:31 | 0:09:33 | |
to go and photograph the old city near Charsadda. | 0:09:33 | 0:09:36 | |
When he got there, of course, there was no city, | 0:09:36 | 0:09:39 | |
he didn't realise that these mounds were intended. | 0:09:39 | 0:09:41 | |
And he didn't know what to do. | 0:09:41 | 0:09:43 | |
So, he received instructions on the telephone to photograph | 0:09:43 | 0:09:48 | |
the area for half a mile or so around my tents. | 0:09:48 | 0:09:52 | |
Which they did. Which he did. | 0:09:52 | 0:09:54 | |
He took about a quarter of an hour, swooping about there, | 0:09:54 | 0:09:57 | |
and I thought, "My God, nothing will come out of this." After all, | 0:09:57 | 0:10:02 | |
he's going too fast to begin with to get a decent photograph. | 0:10:02 | 0:10:06 | |
But, but... | 0:10:06 | 0:10:09 | |
Next morning, a messenger came from Peshawar, from the Air Force, | 0:10:09 | 0:10:13 | |
with a bunch of photographs. | 0:10:13 | 0:10:16 | |
As I turned them over with my colleagues, | 0:10:17 | 0:10:21 | |
two young men from Cambridge, | 0:10:21 | 0:10:22 | |
another man from various parts of Pakistan, we looked through them. | 0:10:22 | 0:10:28 | |
And they shrugged their shoulders. | 0:10:28 | 0:10:31 | |
And I said, "Well, what do you make of it?" | 0:10:31 | 0:10:33 | |
They said, "Well, it all looks rather... | 0:10:34 | 0:10:36 | |
"Looks very nice, but rather muddled." | 0:10:36 | 0:10:39 | |
I said, "What do you make of that one?" | 0:10:39 | 0:10:41 | |
I held out one of them to him. | 0:10:41 | 0:10:43 | |
They looked again. | 0:10:43 | 0:10:44 | |
They were not used to this sort of thing, this sort of quiz. | 0:10:44 | 0:10:49 | |
So I said, "This is the greatest discovery | 0:10:51 | 0:10:53 | |
"made in the frontier of Pakistan for perhaps 100 years." | 0:10:53 | 0:11:01 | |
And then I explained. | 0:11:02 | 0:11:04 | |
What I saw on this air photograph was the plan of a large | 0:11:04 | 0:11:08 | |
part of a Greek town, a Greek city. | 0:11:08 | 0:11:10 | |
The lines of the streets were there, | 0:11:11 | 0:11:14 | |
the lines of the house walls were there at right | 0:11:14 | 0:11:17 | |
angles to the streets in parallel to the streets, and | 0:11:17 | 0:11:20 | |
there in the midst was the circular shape of the Buddhist shrine. | 0:11:20 | 0:11:26 | |
The whole thing was there. Nobody had ever heard of it before! | 0:11:26 | 0:11:30 | |
That afternoon, we went over to Shaikhan, which is | 0:11:30 | 0:11:32 | |
the name of this mound, | 0:11:32 | 0:11:34 | |
it was about three furlongs from where our tents were, and there | 0:11:34 | 0:11:39 | |
it looked like a tumult, rather like a cross-channel sea on a rough day. | 0:11:39 | 0:11:45 | |
But from the air, from 1,000 feet up, | 0:11:45 | 0:11:48 | |
looking down as the camera had looked down, | 0:11:48 | 0:11:50 | |
the whole thing fell into place and what had happened was quite simple. | 0:11:50 | 0:11:54 | |
The local farmers had found that there were the brick | 0:11:54 | 0:11:57 | |
walls of an ancient city there. | 0:11:57 | 0:12:00 | |
They dug lines along... Trenches along the lines of the walls, | 0:12:01 | 0:12:06 | |
pulled out the bricks, of course, their trenches were no wider than | 0:12:06 | 0:12:09 | |
the walls, otherwise they would have wasted their efforts. | 0:12:09 | 0:12:12 | |
And so, what they'd left for me, for the air photograph, | 0:12:12 | 0:12:18 | |
was a city in negative. | 0:12:18 | 0:12:21 | |
A city in negative, with hollow lines where the walls had been. | 0:12:21 | 0:12:27 | |
Well, thereafter, all of this was verified. | 0:12:29 | 0:12:35 | |
Two years later, two years after I'd left, | 0:12:35 | 0:12:37 | |
it was verified by Professor Darney, | 0:12:37 | 0:12:40 | |
a local professor of archaeology at Peshawar University, | 0:12:40 | 0:12:45 | |
who had been a pupil of mine. | 0:12:45 | 0:12:46 | |
A very good fellow, a very fine fellow indeed. | 0:12:47 | 0:12:50 | |
You see, as one gets older, one boasts of one's pupils, no doubt, | 0:12:50 | 0:12:57 | |
maybe, in time to come, I shall be boasting of you, Mag! | 0:12:57 | 0:13:00 | |
But never mind that for the moment. | 0:13:00 | 0:13:03 | |
He dug there, he found the walls where I had found the hollows | 0:13:03 | 0:13:07 | |
in the ground where the walls had been partially dug up, | 0:13:07 | 0:13:11 | |
and he found these coins of Menander, | 0:13:11 | 0:13:13 | |
right at the bottom of the whole thing, many feet down, showing | 0:13:13 | 0:13:18 | |
that this was in fact a Greco-Indian, | 0:13:18 | 0:13:22 | |
or Indo-Greek, creation | 0:13:22 | 0:13:25 | |
of approximately the middle of the 2nd century BC. | 0:13:25 | 0:13:28 | |
In the Greek tradition, following the pattern set by... | 0:13:28 | 0:13:34 | |
..by Alexander The Great, | 0:13:36 | 0:13:38 | |
when he came there at the end of the 4th century. | 0:13:38 | 0:13:41 | |
The place was captured by... | 0:13:43 | 0:13:44 | |
Charsadda, or rather Pushkalavati, | 0:13:46 | 0:13:49 | |
was captured by Alexander's troops in the year 327 BC. | 0:13:49 | 0:13:56 | |
And, as a bonne bouge, | 0:13:56 | 0:13:58 | |
I decided to find the defences of the city at that time | 0:13:58 | 0:14:01 | |
because the fact that it took a trained division, | 0:14:01 | 0:14:07 | |
or corps, of Alexander's troops | 0:14:07 | 0:14:10 | |
30 days to capture it implied that it was fortified. | 0:14:10 | 0:14:15 | |
I wouldn't have told you that story | 0:14:15 | 0:14:17 | |
if I hadn't actually found the defences. | 0:14:17 | 0:14:19 | |
It was up to me to find them, | 0:14:19 | 0:14:22 | |
and I did. | 0:14:22 | 0:14:24 | |
Subtitles by Red Bee Media | 0:14:31 | 0:14:34 |