My Lesbian Mums Newsbeat Documentaries

challenge. Clive will be here at ten o'clock with a full round-up of the

day's news. It is time for a special programme from newspeak, My Lesbian

Mums. This is the moment

my mums made history, becoming the first lesbians

to marry in Scotland. But it wasn't plain sailing for them

to get down the aisle. Hi, my name's Jillian,

and 20 years ago my mum I was only four at the time,

so it really wasn't such a great deal for me,

but I have learnt from my parents that it might have been a bit more

difficult for some of my siblings. So I'm going to go on a journey

and speak to my brother and two of my elder sisters to see what it's

been like for them. I'd also quite like to find out

what it's like nowadays and if it's easier for parents to come out

to their children. My family is very open,

but there are some things More mummies than

an Egyptian pyramid. I know some found

it hard, but how hard? Society had made me believe that

that was such a bad thing. VOICEOVER: And see if our mums think

they've changed anything. I remember my mum sat me

and my brother down, and she asked People will say to us, "Oh,

it's so easy for gay couples now compared to "what it used to be,

you know, you're totally accepted." VOICEOVER: If, 20 years later,

some parents still struggle coming I don't know any other gay couples

that have a dad that You feel bad cos they were being

bullied because of you, Yeah, or you could have my

new drink - raw, organic, unfiltered cider vinegar,

it's very good for you. VOICEOVER: And this is the house

where our family grew up. My mum moved in here

with Gerrie 17 years ago. With Gerrie came three

big sisters for me. So, here we have some pictures of me

and my brother, Jamie. My favourite one on this

is the picture of us posing up here, because my mum always tried to make

us be all happy He was the only boy

in the house, apart from Rupert So, I think I'm going to start my

journey off by speaking to him. I think it will be quite interesting

to see what it's like from a male perspective in a house

full of women. And I remember, I remember Gerrie

coming over to the house quite a lot, and Elaine being there,

playing football with her in the back garden a lot,

but not really knowing what it was. And then it was when obviously

Mum and Dad split up. "This

is what's happening." I feel like you always find just,

like, the funny side of things. You knew how to just make a joke

of things and not get sad and angry. Always got to look on the bright

side of life, as they say. Like, I remember, what was that

card that you got Mum? Was it for her birthday

or something? Terrible, terrible

joke, when I look back at that. 14-year-old me found it hilarious,

but 28-year-old me, not so much. Something I would tell all my

friends about your yearbook is... More mummies than

an Egyptian pyramid. See, it's just

good to find a joke. I don't think I remember anybody

staring at us I think we just, I mean, we were so oblivious to that

sort of thing, because it Getting a free dinner,

cannae beat it. I don't remember hearing any

whispers or hearing any... There was no, like, all looking

around, "Is anyone watching us?" "Let's go out for dinner, let's not

care what other people think." I also really liked how Mum

and Gerrie just held hands and... I feel like there's not

enough people doing that. If you're expecting me

to hold your hand right now you've No, but I

know what you mean. I think I've started seeing

more people who have come out or whatever,

holding hands, and all Yeah, but back then it

wasn't such a big thing. What would your response be

to people who don't agree with the way that we have

been brought up? Why take the time out

to...sort of chastise Yeah.

I know. I mean, we wouldn't do

that to other people. No.

Definitely not. And we've been very lucky

in the sense that nobody Yeah.

Definitely. Mmm.

But, aye, it's just... There should be more love

in the world, not any more hating. JAMIE LAUGHS

Definitely. JILLIAN LAUGHS

Good boy. VOICEOVER: I think Jamie found it

easier because he had He was confident enough to say

in his first introduction, There are four years

between Jamie and me. Maybe being the youngest

made it easier. Elaine's a really

cool sister to have. She's a singer and

writes her own music. But, being a few years older

than Jamie, she might remember our two families coming

together in more detail than we do. Do you remember your

mum coming out to you? I was sitting in the living room

and there was a card sitting on the couch from Susan to my mum,

saying how much she loved her, Because...

Complete news to me. Like, I would remember exactly

what I was upset about, and it turned out I was,

like, the last person And all her friends

were actually girlfriends, so... I just remember that

day finding out. I remember being in my school

uniform, I remember How old were you?

Erm... I think with you it was probably

a friend thing until she was too scared to tell you.

I was so young. I was just kind of like, "Meh, OK."

I think that's the difference. If you're tiny, you can

tell kids these things. We don't understand

what the difference is. Yeah, they love each other,

that's all we need to know. It's interesting to hear

how different it is for That's just because the society

made me believe that that was such a bad thing,

and that's kind of the last thing I remember about it,

about that discussion. Elaine was a bit upset

when she realised, because she was a little

bit older and... I think it was just

sorting out in her head. I think she felt as though I should

have told her earlier and... So, you can't always

get the timing right. And I do regret that, that I hadn't

told her sooner, more explicitly. we're fine with that now,

but it has taken time to... How do you know when the time

is right for each individual person? But Elaine had more to deal

with than just her mum One of her sisters came out

when she was a teenager. Marie wasn't able to take part

in this documentary. I thought I knew about my sister

being a lesbian before I found out about my mum,

and I was totally fine with that. For some reason it was a bigger deal

because it was my mum, Awful, it was just constantly,

which I've been reminded of, just walking down the halls

and people shouting, "Oh, I would just keep walking,

and it was constant. And I don't think I told anyone

about my mum and Susan, apart from my close friends,

because I got so much abuse Yeah, no, why would you even put

yourself through that? I didn't talk to anybody

about anything. Do you think that's

why you were so shy? Yeah, cos I just feel like I lost

every bit of confidence. ELAINE LAUGHS

SHE EXHALES THEY LAUGH

Erm... Yeah, I think everything changes

when you leave school. I didn't realise how hard

it was for you, because, like, we were just at different points

in our life back then. It's probably quite good,

though, to show that that's how you actually felt,

like, and it's not No, it wasn't all happy,

but I just find I wish I could talk about things without crying,

because then you can Literally just can't

get it out otherwise. VOICEOVER: Elaine struggled

a lot more than I did, and it's clear there's not one right

way to tell your children. It must have been tough

on our mums though. All five of us were at different

stages of our lives. It was about each of them

individually, and getting time with them and feeling

that the timing was right. For me my fear was that, yeah,

the children would be bullied. My two tell me that they didn't

face anything like that. They really felt totally

accepted and that our family Although Jillian recently told us

that there were some remarks from schoolmates about having

two lesbian mothers. That was news to me,

so I think at the time she probably was protecting us to some extent,

you know, that we didn't You know, although people

will say to us, "Oh, it's so easy for gay couples now

compared to what it used to be, "you know, you're totally

accepted," we are not, Because there are still a lot

of parts of society across the world that, I know it's illegal

in different countries still, or even in this country, you know,

if you belong to a particularly religious group, whatever

background that might be, I'm not pointing the finger at one

or another, that might say And, I mean, I've had some

horrendous stuff on social media... From strangers, yeah,

being called an abomination and other names like that

and I think, "You don't know me, "you don't know us,"

and I have a wonderful family, cos every single one of those kids

are wonderful and are a bonus. They're a gift to society

and to the world, every And one of them, my eldest sister

Anne, is running a successful About to get a taxi to go see Anne,

and I cannot wait to see her. BELLS CHIME

Can't hear you! SHE SCREAMS

SHE LAUGHS So, what do any sisters do

when they've not seen I never lived with her,

because she was at university We rarely talk about the time before

we were just one family, but it's so hot, so time

for some rooftop drinking. I see through them that absolutely

anything is possible. I think it would be different if

people were horrible to me or if... Yeah, if I was bullied because of it

or I felt different, no, because I think I was,

like, 17 or 18, I was at university. It was actually kind of cool

to have lesbian parents. And it was like the whole

time of Friends and Ross. And I was like, "Hey,

my new mum's called Susan too! Yeah, I think

for my mum as well, for having such young children,

I think that would have been You don't know what fears

are in your head and what Because you don't know

legally if you can lose and...

or "Can someone complain?" "What's the school

system going to say?" As much as my grandparents knew,

none of their friends knew, and they were so worried

about what their friends' reaction was going to be,

and I remember my mum sat me and my brother down and she asked

if I was embarrassed by her. And I just, we were both just like,

"Don't be so stupid. I think there's still

a lot to change. I think maybe in another 20 years it

will be completely different again, but I think our mothers have helped

pioneering the change Knowing that our parents have helped

at least one person in this world You look at other people that marry,

and all the younger women and all the gay guys

that they marry, it's just, I think isn't anything, like,

knowing you're not alone? Massive respect for them,

like, to have done Yeah, cos they really

were the first. There was no-one around

them to support them. But then it's a kind of strength

of the relationship, in that they managed it together,

they did it together. A lot of people wouldn't have been

able to survive that, I don't think. So far you know how Jamie,

Elaine and Anne dealt with being I lived with Gerrie for three years

before I realised what a lesbian was, and that not everybody

lived like us. I was sitting on the settee watching

EastEnders with Jillian, and we... The woman who, Pam St

Clement, who was playing And I had honestly never used

the word lesbian with Jillian ever, and we were sitting on the settee,

she was in between Gerrie and I, and she turned to me and said,

"Mummy, sure Pat in EastEnders And she stood, all

this gesticulating... So I launched into a great tale

of how important it is to have people in your life that love

you and to have loving As humanists they conduct

nonreligious ceremonies. And sometimes they meet couples

who face the same challenges SAT NAV: Take exit 22

to merge onto M77... Speaking to my brother

and my sisters has been really eye opening and insightful,

understanding that it's been Me being the youngest

I was obviously so oblivious to how everybody felt,

and obviously some people dealt with it a lot harder than others

did, and I guess I was very lucky in the sense that I didn't

struggle with it at all. Gerrie, my stepmum,

actually married a gay couple not that long ago,

who, by the sounds of things, are struggling an awful

lot more than we were, so we are currently on our way now

to go and visit them and have a chat with them and see what life

is like for them. LAUGHTER

We obviously knew. Yeah, it was fine, I just went too

far on, I didn't take VOICEOVER: The Office

for National Statistics estimates there are 9,000 same-sex couples

in the UK with children to look after, so Tyler

and India aren't alone. At no point we've sat them

down and said, you know, "This is because Daddy wants to be

with a man and, you know, India was quite young

when we first met. So, she's kind of not,

doesn't really remember anything. Tyler was a little older,

but I think much the same, so it's always just been,

you know, that "Daddy's going to live with Conor,"

and we don't really make a big thing We had a lot of questions from them,

you know, and we still do, you know, every now and again,

you know, they come and usually at bedtime, I'll get, "Daddy,

why do you kiss Conor, cos boys aren't

supposed to kiss boys?" And, you know, we get

those kind of comments every now and again,

or, "Daddy, why do you sleep So, there's been a few times

recently where Tyler in particular will, you know,

he'll cry and he'll say, Yeah, you know, cos a lot

of the time I come down the stairs, you know, and I put the brave face

on when I'm with Tyler, Yeah,

it is, you know, like, And I say it in the best way that

I possibly can, but... It's tough.

It's really tough. It's hard.

Really tough. What do you think it will be

like in high school for them? It's probably one of my biggest

worries for the kids, because I don't know any other gay

couples that have a dad that I think back to what it

was like for me growing up at high school and,

you know, kind of, even being gay It will probably be difficult,

because it's kids, isn't it? The worst thing I think would be

if something was happening, we didn't know about it

and you would feel kind of helpless then, or you'd feel bad cos

they were being kind of bullied I think that's the hardest thing,

the guilt, I guess, that you're kind of helpless and you feel that you're

the cause of it as well. It sounds like they've had a really,

really, really tough time, but I just think Adam's so brave

to have done what he's done, and it sounds like their kids are

going to come up absolutely fine. I know they were saying

that they worry a bit about what their kids

are going to be like in high school, From what I saw I just know

that they are going to have the best life and they're going to grow

up so well. I suppose with Adam and Conor,

just like my mums, parents - lesbian, gay or straight -

just want to do what's So, I feel like I've learnt

so much from every single member of my family,

not only myself, but all of my From looking at Elaine, like,

she's obviously struggled so much and she's come out so much better

from this, she's such My brother, I mean,

he's just my brother, he's the most amazing person,

he's just great. And my sister Anne, I feel

like she's taken the amazing qualities of my mother's and just

created this worldwide And for my parents, well,

they just taught me to be who I am and grow up and be the person that

I am today, and I think they've I've just loved every single

minute of this project. I feel like it's been the most

enlightening experience - joyful, emotional, laughter,

all sorts of emotions, Elaine definitely has

struggled through school I think she's actually quite

emotionally traumatised I don't think that was necessarily

about having two mums. No, she said that she never actually

told anyone in school because of how people reacted

to her sister coming out. Just clearly a very

unhappy time for her. Obviously I'm understanding more

about it now, but where she is now, she's amazing and she's

so beautiful and creative. Our biggest fear was

losing our children... But the general consensus

from all the children is that Aw!

Aw! THEY LAUGH

That's lovely. It was the

hardest thing I ever did, was to... you know, tell you that

I wasn't going to be living with your dad any more,

you know, it's very hard. Us coming out and being together

is not the way the book was written on life,

but it's our truth and that, as a parent, that was the only

thing that we could do, and give that to all of you,

so even if that was hard