The East Midlands Today Debate Our Economy


The East Midlands Today Debate

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You might wish to jet away from it all but there's no escaping the

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The closed shops on our high streets tell the story. Job cuts

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and recession, rising unemployment and a growing number of people

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queuing for food parcels. We could not survive without them. We've

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witnessed the struggle for survival at factories like Bombardier, the

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lack of hope when giant firms shut up shop and we've listened to the

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sound of protest as cuts in the public sector have started to bite.

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A real shock. It is closing down. It might appear there are no

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reasons to be cheerful. And then there are places like this... A

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construction college where they're building for the future, is it here

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we'll find the green shoots of Welcome to this BBC East Midlands

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Today special on the state of the region's economy. This evening

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we're the guests of West Nottinghamshire College and here at

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their construction academy at Kirkby in Ashfield they really are

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building for the future, providing the training and skills needed for

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the next generation of plumbers, brickies, chippies and decorators.

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Joining me, a group of invited guests including politicians,

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business men and women and people Give yourselves a round of applause.

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Asha Khemka, you are the principle of this college, we are talking

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about jobs, how do the courses you round here translate into jobs? How

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successful is it at finding work? First, let me say welcome to my

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college, we are proud to host this event. Moving on to what we are

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doing at the college... As you know There is a link between education

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and economy. Just like in health, people used a measure of infant

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mortality to judge a nation's health, similarly, education and

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youth employment a sensitive measures of how an economy is doing.

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How successful are you doing? successful. You can see what we're

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doing in terms of giving people skills. I have three examples...

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What we are doing in addition to giving people skills and allowing

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them to progress into jobs... We are providing a job vacancy service

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at the college were students are prepared to apply for those

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particular jobs and we have seen 700 young people progress into jobs

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last year as a result of that initiative. Secondly, we have

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worked with Mansfield District Council on a summer job shop and

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trained people on employability skills, on a five-week course, and

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out of 60, more than 30 progressed into employment, the rest have

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progressed into other studies and so on. Finally, we showcased the

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work of students and invited employers and others to look at

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what they will be employing. Becky, you have been running your own

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business. But you have come back here to re-train, why? I was

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running a domestic cleaning business but a lot of professional

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clients could not afford to actually have my services. So why

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decided to retrain and I found a cause of professional painting and

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decorating. Do you see more of a future in that? I do. More of a

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future and the course is so detailed that it literally will

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give me the skills I need to get employed. Why are you here? Rather

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than follow your education through school? I came here because I am a

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hands-on kind of guy. When I was at school I did not really get to do

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the practical work I can do here. I was in a classroom, doing work, but

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here I can develop skills and hopefully go on to become an

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apprentice. Are you optimistic? hope so. I have gone for a few

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apprenticeships but due to my hand, because I have had some

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difficulties with it, I have been let down. I hope it gets better for

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you. Julian, you see many students like Ryan come through the course

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and we know there is a shortage of housing, about 124,000 families

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waiting for new homes, but will people like Ryan get jobs? If they

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work hard and get the qualifications, there are

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opportunities for them. As you can see from the facilities you are in,

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they are fabulous and the staff work very hard to make sure that at

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the end of the course they have industrial standard skills and have

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a good chance when they get out there. The couple of days to go

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before the Budget, what is the true state of the regional economy? What

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are we looking at? The economy is growing but very slowly. It is not

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growing in all sectors, all four companies. So it is a mixed picture.

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-- or four companies. We need to see a further boost to that.

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know people are claiming unemployment, in fact, the number

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claiming has doubled since the start of 2008, with thousands of

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job losses, 17,000 which came from council cuts. Martin, you are out

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of work. You have been out of work for three years and your

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volunteering at the moment. What is it like? Very difficult to find

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jobs out there. You go into some Job Centres and the staff they do

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not seem to be very helpful. It did not appeal to me, they can be

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intimidating places as well. many jobs have you applied for?

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Over 50. In how long? A very period of four years. Have qualifications,

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Business Admin, IT... I just want to work. I just want a job. We have

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people here like Martin who have been trying hard. A over three

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years, which is very sad. But he wants to work. I know. I am very

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surprised what you say about your experience at Job Centres because

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certainly the one in my constituency is a welcoming, good

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place. I was told last week they can place people, often it takes

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time and they need to improve people's CVs, they also know you

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have to apply for a lot of jobs before you finally get the one you

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are looking for. How many have you applied for? 50. I should imagine

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somebody who would want to help you would be wanting you to apply for a

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lot more than 50. Presumably one the government to help you? I would.

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What would you like to happen? need help. That is exactly what the

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programmes are there to do, specifically designed to get people

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into work, or back into work, whatever their circumstances. When

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I visit them they tell me they are doing a very good job that that.

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Chris, Your leader says he will guarantee six months' work to

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people aged between 18 and 24 and sadly you told me your age earlier

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and I am sorry you do not quite fit into that bracket! There is a catch,

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you can do it, but you will lose your benefits, is that fair? It is

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important we address this national scandal of youth unemployment. We

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sort happened in the 1980s and studies have shown people who have

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a long-term period of unemployment in the 1980s had their lives

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blighted as a consequence of that. I don't want to see another wasted

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forgotten generation as a result of the policies which the George

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Osborne is pursuing which are not working, they are hurting, but not

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working. We have seen demand being taken out of the economy, thousands

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of people losing jobs in the public sector, unable to spend that money,

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it is no surprise we saw there that shops were closing because people

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have not got money to spend in retail outlets. It is important we

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recreate demand in the economy by investing in it and investing in

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our construction sector, the manufacturing sector, the

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construction sector is on its knees. When the government came to power

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this scrap the building schools for the future programme. He wore on

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that, went to? -- you were on that, were you not? It has been taken

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away. How does that make you feel? It really knocks your confidence.

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It makes you feel down. Jason, we know in this part of the world it

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is hard to find work. You worry student at this college. But when

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you wear a student there were more jobs and it was easier to find work.

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Now there might be 300 more people chasing one job. That is true. But

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we need to rebalance the economy. You will have noticed there has

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been around 59,000 more part-time jobs and people with rebalancing

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the tax system a bit, so lifting some of the poorest people out of

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tax and lifting millions of people out of the higher paid tax bracket

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with more disposable income. If shops have disposable income, they

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are spending it, investing it, people with small businesses have

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been able to take on an extra member of staff. I think places

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like this college Ira beacon of hope for the future because they

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show exactly what can be done when you link skills with the community

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and have some ambition. Finding jobs and getting people -- Finding

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jobs and getting people into work is key to growing the economy but

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the cuts have left some people feeling like second class citizens,

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like the Reverend Jane Lyon from Ashbourne. By having this effective

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care package it has enabled me to be a full member of the community

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and take an active part in life. I was pretty concerned about having

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to go through being reassessed and I just felt like I was on trial.

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Almost as if the people who were coming to assess the were trying to

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catch me out. I think the problem is they sit in their office and see

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easy targets, but they need to actually look at what people are

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doing with their lives. It is so important that I and other disabled

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people contribute to society. We have so much to give but we need

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Reverend Jane Lyon, you are currently getting �500 a week for

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care and you have been told that could be slashed to about �40. This

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dress, as we can see from that film, it is not doing you any good?

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have certainly been times when I have had suicidal thoughts because

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I had been so desperate. Some but not all practitioners seems so

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driven by the cuts agenda, that I feel they cannot see how vulnerable

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I am. They have stopped caring because they have to make these

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cuts? That is how it feels. Not everyone. I am glad to hear that.

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This was always going to be one of the worries though, wasn't it? We

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accept that these cuts are being made but this was always one of the

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worries, that the people most vulnerable would become victims yet

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again? A they shouldn't be, and nobody makes cuts because they do

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not care. Everyone who goes into politics goes into politics because

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we do care and one to make changes to make things better for everybody.

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I do not know this case at all but I am hoping there has not been a

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determination. I believe it is Derbyshire County Council and they

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would arch party going see her Member of Parliament. If she was my

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constituents, I would be fighting like a tiger to make sure that

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whatever has gone wrong goes right. I would like to think that this is

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a very unusual case and we have not got the determination. Cuts would

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be imposed by whichever government one of the last election and we all

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know why. That is the deficit. We have to bring down the deficit

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because, in simple terms, our country was on the verge of

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bankruptcy. People in need in our society should not suffer more.

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say they shouldn't... We don't know yet because this case has not been

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determined that she has not gone through the process. She has of the

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worry. I totally reject what and that is saying because in my view,

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and on all the evidence, this government is using the deficit as

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a fig-leaf for what is actually an ideological assault on public

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services. We are seeing huge and that justified cuts on public

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services which actually define the kind of society in which we live.

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It is also important to remember that in cutting public services in

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the way the government is trying to do, that is having a knock-on

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effect on the wider economy because people do not have the money. 20%

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of the region's workforce work in the public sector and are being

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decimated by this government's policies. Attacking public services

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and the social security benefits that the in place because, as a

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compassionate society we should look to help people who cannot look

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after themselves. For every �8 this Government has cut, Labour would

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have cut �7. It is not growing the economy, that is the problem. The

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economy needs to grow. The mess we're in is because of the deficit

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we have inherited which has brought two political parties together to

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sort it out. Jane, you have your hand up. What they wanted to say is

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that by having the right support, I have been able to study for an any

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degree and do my ordination training. I can serve the community

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as an ordained person. That is what you want to do, serve the

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community? We have changed the system so people have control of

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their own budgets to make their own decisions.

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Alan Lloyd, you are trying to offer help and support of vulnerable

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people in Mansfield but you feel you have been caught between a rock

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and a hard place? I do, but in this particular case, it would be

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interesting to see who is carrying out the assessment and I believe it

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is a company we use, and they will point out that with us, a 90% of

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our appeals had been successful. The original verdict had been

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overturned. I think you're talking about people on disability. Tell us

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of the effect at the cuts have had on the people you're working with.

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Since 2009, the cuts started to hit us. We have gone down, our core

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funding, gone down from 53,000 to 10,000. It will be nothing this

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year. We work with the most disadvantaged on things like the

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Work Programme. Some come to us and we introduce them for the first

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time in their lives to toothpaste and soap and towels. Very basic

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stuff. What is your experience of this, Helen, from Unison?

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represent people employed in the delivery of public services and

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what strikes me about this debate is not only are we putting people,

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currently an employment and delivering services, I did work,

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but it then has a negative impact on the people the use those

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services, people like the Reverend Jane Lyon and that those you have

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described. It has a negative impact on the local economy because for

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every �1 spent on local services, 61p of that gets to be spent on the

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local economy. Do the cuts not have to be made? They do not. There are

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alternatives to the spending cuts that we have never had a proper

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debate about. Even if you except the spending cuts have to be made,

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you can make different choices about what they have to be spent on.

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You can make tax more fair and cut the deal less than this economy.

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Before he say anything else, I want to bring in Phil Matthews of the

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Police Federation. We know very clearly that police forces across

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the country have been severely affected. How many officers from

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Nottinghamshire had been made redundant and what has been the

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impact? We have lost over 300 already and we are scheduled to

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lose another 100 or 200 before we see the end of these cuts, which is

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approximately one in five of our numbers. We have seen about the

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equivalent other civilian staff bowlers well, about one in three.

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Is that the same story in Derbyshire and Leicestershire?

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Nottinghamshire had the fourth highest reduction of all the police

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forces in the country. Derbyshire have lost something like 8% and

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Lincolnshire something like 12%, Leicestershire something similar.

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We have seen massive cuts on an unprecedented scale. You're not

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alone. There are a lot of big companies in this area, such as

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Bombardier. Tough times, Kevin Owen. How hard has it been that

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Bombardier? Since we lost the Thames Link order, we have lost

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nearly 1200 staff. A lot of agency staff but they believe some of them

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would have been kept on if we had got the Thames like. -- Link. It

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has been devastating. What is it been like for colleagues with all

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this uncertainty hanging over them? -- has it. They really did not know

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what to do because they thought government was going to back

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British industry and manufacturing in Britain but it does not seem

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like we had the backing. Backing and support is what we need to get

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this economy growing. You're from Leicester where you chair the Asian

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Business Association, what is your experience? What -- I think we buy

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into the localisation agenda. Let's have support for the start-ups and

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social enterprise, but one group of men and women we have forgotten his

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those already in business, and have been in business, and suffer

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because they have a bad credit rating on a bad banking record

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through no fault of their own. Might the two of the politicians

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here and of the three parties and the banks, is to it, going forward,

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creator road map for these men and women to bring up their credit

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record, and start creating those additional jobs and profitability

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so we can have prosperity again. I would welcome any support in that

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area. Because the business does not do well first time around does not

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be it cannot do well in the future with support? And trying times,

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everything is scarce. The biggest asset we have in this country is

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entrepreneur's. If men and women, through no fault of their own, have

:24:36.:24:41.

on the side through bad debt are bad credit rating, we ate create a

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mechanism, and this is a plea to George Osborne as well, let's

:24:47.:24:52.

create a road map so these men and women can rebuild their credit and

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start creating a just no jobs and profits. We need entrepreneurs and

:24:57.:25:02.

need to support them. One way to help those who have lost their jobs

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is to support them but going alone can be very daunting.

:25:08.:25:13.

I had to go home and tell my family that mum had lost her job. I did

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not think it would happen. The last eight years, I had been helping

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disabled people. Last March, I was told I was going to be made

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redundant and it came completely out of that move. It was completely

:25:30.:25:33.

terrifying and what they realised was the council were looking to

:25:33.:25:38.

other avenues to provide services to disabled people, and they

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realise that divided not fill the gap, somebody else would. I could

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UN look to others to help me as a cat to get up and the morning

:25:46.:25:55.

myself. It was a if I had to take. I started at college three years

:25:55.:25:59.

ago and managed to get into an apprenticeship. My employer was

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selling the business and they got the opportunity to buy. A lot of

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hairdressers and salons in the area are closing. It is a big recession

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but you have to take the risk to move forward.

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It has not been easy, has it? has been a very challenging 12

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months. The irony is that the council that make you redundant is

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buying back your services. I knew that was going to happen because I

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knew that the government agenda was to empower people to purchase their

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own services. I knew that in Derby there was a gap in the market. I

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felt that I had the experience and the knowledge to deliver effective

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social enterprise in Derby. In some ways, are you glad that this has

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happened? Yes. I would not go back to employment. I am glad I am self-

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employed. Jodie Whitemoor, it took some guts doing what you did,

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starting a business in the middle of the recession? A lot of people

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have said so. It is a big weight but I believe that ambition is the

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key to building any business. A lot of supporters out there if you want

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to tap into it but I feel there should be more support for growing

:27:16.:27:19.

businesses. You would agree with that Uday Dholakia, that there

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should be more support. In the middle of a recession, starting a

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business like Jodie has, you can make it anywhere, can sue? It is

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fantastic to see that. The important point to remember is that

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the private sector has created more jobs than the last two months than

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the public sector has led Gorbals up we are seeing a rebalancing of

:27:44.:27:48.

the economy which is very progressive. Senior people setting

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up new businesses is just what we want. We have seen in a survey done

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by expedient for us that the biggest rise in business set up in

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the last couple of years has been in Leicester. UN in less than one

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of those business people - how has it been for you? It is going very

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well. The support unless there has been strong. Coming from university,

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I had an opportunity to go on a programme which offered �5,000 as

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well as support. The support unless there is actually very good. I

:28:25.:28:30.

think without that support moulding you it into what you expect it

:28:30.:28:35.

would be very difficult and daunting without. Does it take a

:28:35.:28:43.

certain kind of person? I was asked that her son by a young student for

:28:43.:28:49.

the BBC school reports show this week. What they refer to his, at

:28:49.:28:58.

Chase here passion, not your pension. Passion is the key thing.

:28:58.:29:02.

Becoming in Bedford brewer, you learn over time. Had he said to me

:29:02.:29:07.

12 months ago, it is totally different. It makes you better as a

:29:07.:29:13.

leader as up -- and as a person and you grow in your skills. For people

:29:13.:29:21.

who don't know, you sell items at 99p and the internet? You're very

:29:21.:29:25.

good at it because you have won lots of Lords.

:29:25.:29:30.

Not everyone wants to know what these people were doing.

:29:30.:29:34.

everyone wants to and not everyone can. Until we address the

:29:34.:29:38.

fundamental problems in the economy, which as far as I'm concerned is

:29:38.:29:42.

about growth and creating employment, you're not going to

:29:42.:29:46.

grow the economy and address the problems of unemployment, when you

:29:46.:29:50.

have a great hole where it is going out the back door. We are

:29:50.:29:53.

continuing to make people unemployed in the public sector

:29:53.:29:57.

with 15,000 jobs lost in the public sector last year. That will be

:29:57.:30:02.

created this year and next year at the year after that. We're not

:30:02.:30:05.

seeing the sort of compensated mechanism of jobs being created in

:30:05.:30:12.

the private sector. Adam, let me bring you in here because you say

:30:12.:30:19.

you're creating jobs? You employ 50 people? I want to put up something

:30:19.:30:25.

George said. Debbie has gone out and created a business which is

:30:25.:30:32.

fantastic, but it is essentially replacing the public service.

:30:32.:30:36.

thing is missing. The private sector absolutely has to be

:30:36.:30:40.

responsible for creating jobs and wealth for the economy, but they do

:30:40.:30:44.

not think you can claim success if we are essentially just privatising

:30:44.:30:48.

elements of the public service. this to do with the right people

:30:48.:30:55.

for the right jobs? We looked at the college creating people with

:30:55.:31:01.

the skills. We employ people generally with degrees. I have had

:31:01.:31:11.
:31:11.:31:32.

a challenge for years. There is no I apprenticeships the answer?

:31:32.:31:39.

They're important. -- are apprenticeships the answer? We have

:31:39.:31:44.

to grow the economy, that is key. An economy that is flat lining, and

:31:44.:31:47.

the government having to borrow even more money, they came to power

:31:47.:31:51.

saying they were going to cut the deficit. If I was asking about

:31:51.:32:00.

apprenticeships. I think they are very successful, there is a lot of

:32:00.:32:03.

positive feeling about the number of apprenticeships which cross

:32:03.:32:09.

across the board. Then they end up just being cheap labour? Not at all.

:32:09.:32:14.

That is an unfortunate way to describe it. A non my description,

:32:14.:32:17.

but what some people say has happened to them. I somebody

:32:17.:32:22.

looking at deploying an apprentice in my office, I can assure you they

:32:22.:32:26.

are not cheap labour. It is the most wonderful balance of hands-on

:32:26.:32:30.

work experience, plus going to college and getting skills as well.

:32:30.:32:37.

Hopefully a job at the end, too. definition, apprentices are doing a

:32:37.:32:42.

job, learning skills, earning a wage. In my college alone we saw

:32:42.:32:45.

last year 5000 apprentices going through the system and progressing

:32:45.:32:55.
:32:55.:32:57.

into employment. I think we have to remember the solutions, not the

:32:57.:33:02.

problems. What are they? If is about maximising potential. Yes,

:33:02.:33:09.

the right attitude, positive energy, the right skills set so people

:33:09.:33:12.

think creatively, think about opportunities, let's think about

:33:12.:33:15.

the big countries and how the economies grow there, because

:33:15.:33:19.

people are entrepreneurs. We have to take lessons and do things

:33:19.:33:23.

differently. According to the report commissioned for the BBC,

:33:23.:33:27.

our region ranks 4th best in its export potential. Is that somewhere

:33:27.:33:34.

we should be looking at more? But his potential enough, if you're not

:33:34.:33:39.

maximising potential, what you feel? We're a lucky to have a

:33:39.:33:44.

strong manufacturing base in this region. A is is still strong?

:33:44.:33:50.

We have major companies like Rolls- Royce, Toyota, an engineering and

:33:50.:33:56.

rail sector. It is important we give a balanced position here.

:33:57.:34:00.

There are job losses in the public sector but the private sector is

:34:00.:34:05.

creating new jobs, particularly in relation to exporting because we

:34:05.:34:11.

still have parts of the World where growth is of eight, 10%, there is I

:34:11.:34:16.

areas which companies are getting involved in -- those are the areas.

:34:16.:34:25.

Martin Taylor, you sell British cheese abroad, Stilton. Yes,

:34:25.:34:30.

Stilton and other cheeses, we are very proud of it. We sell to 39

:34:30.:34:33.

countries and we focus on the British nature of Bee Gees and the

:34:33.:34:38.

product. His that what we should be doing? Promoting the best of what

:34:38.:34:48.

we do -- the cheese. We need to focus on the value end of the

:34:48.:34:51.

production and say yes, it is British, the quality and everything

:34:51.:34:57.

that goes with it. One of the businesses that understands the

:34:57.:35:03.

need to sell skills abroad is the University of Nottingham. I spoke

:35:03.:35:13.
:35:13.:35:28.

to Professor Nick miles from Yarm We use and the phrase soft landing

:35:28.:35:33.

spots, so in Nottingham we have a soft landing spot for East Midlands

:35:33.:35:37.

companies, National companies interested in China, and this is

:35:37.:35:42.

replicated here. So we know with the landscape here it has come in

:35:42.:35:47.

by her cars in Nottingham and vice versa, Chinese companies are coming

:35:47.:35:53.

to us and asking how can we get to the UK? So there is a movement in

:35:53.:35:56.

both directions. But fundamentally what companies and organisations

:35:56.:36:03.

are looking for a talented people, which is what we are producing. So

:36:03.:36:08.

what we find as a university is that our employment rate is one of

:36:08.:36:12.

the highest in China. These companies want our talented

:36:12.:36:17.

graduates. To me, that is a real measure of success. Young people

:36:17.:36:25.

are coming to us, getting education and moving on. It seems to work in

:36:25.:36:29.

China. But we have the eyes of the world from us this year. We have

:36:29.:36:33.

the Olympics, the diamond jubilee, if we cannot do it now, we really

:36:33.:36:38.

are going to miss the boat. You are training students that demand for

:36:38.:36:42.

university for a career in fashion. How important is it to seize the

:36:42.:36:50.

day? When are we going to be in such a position again? We will have

:36:50.:36:54.

the world's spot light on us. Now was the time to export our product

:36:54.:36:58.

and encourage our students to carry on with that optimism they need to

:36:58.:37:05.

believe we can do it here. certainly need optimism. You work

:37:05.:37:08.

in the bioscience industry in Nottingham, what are the dangers if

:37:09.:37:17.

we do not exploit what we do best? I think we will just be overtaken.

:37:17.:37:21.

It is frightening if you take a trip to China to see the rate of

:37:21.:37:25.

expansion and investment over there. At the moment we have a great big

:37:25.:37:31.

advantage in life science, we have the know-how here in the UK. Are we

:37:31.:37:37.

in danger of losing some of the skills it? It depends on a -- skill

:37:37.:37:43.

set. Hygiene factors are very important. You can get a good

:37:43.:37:47.

education here in the UK, if you don't spend too much time in

:37:47.:37:50.

traffic going to work and the weather gets better, I think you

:37:50.:37:56.

would be more inclined to stay here than move over to a city like

:37:56.:38:01.

Shanghai, which is fairly foggy and polluted at the moment. I think it

:38:01.:38:05.

is a question of time. I just hope we can grow our knowledge economy

:38:06.:38:10.

here in the UK so that we are not in a position where we see a great

:38:10.:38:15.

brain drain. Debbie Williams, we have to blow our own trumpet here,

:38:15.:38:20.

don't we? You promote than East Midlands as a place to come and

:38:20.:38:26.

make films and television. It is quite a powerhouse for making TV,

:38:26.:38:29.

film, digital products, including games. We have a great number of

:38:29.:38:35.

games developers in this country -- this part of the country. The same

:38:35.:38:40.

issues apply to be a creative -- the creative industries so we are

:38:40.:38:43.

looking at how better our products can be exported. There are a couple

:38:43.:38:46.

of barriers that the creative sector, it is still not seen as a

:38:46.:38:50.

proper sector in some senses. That is partly because the measures are

:38:50.:38:55.

not a place to demonstrate its significance. In terms of promoting

:38:55.:39:00.

activity, we lack confidence, we know what makes a good...

:39:00.:39:04.

Confidence and positivity. Other reasons to be cheerful? There are.

:39:04.:39:08.

We are seeing developments come forward and we are seeing new jobs

:39:08.:39:11.

being created and new companies being formed. We are talking to

:39:12.:39:15.

manufacturers about bringing production back from China back

:39:15.:39:25.
:39:25.:39:29.

into the UK. The budget is a couple of days away. If there was one

:39:29.:39:37.

thing you could have, what would that we should be? I would like

:39:37.:39:41.

George Osborne to give the banks fiscal rebate if they are prepared

:39:41.:39:44.

to take a chance on existing business men and women who need

:39:44.:39:51.

their support. Adam? I am nervous about asking banks for money

:39:51.:39:55.

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