The South East Today Debate Our Economy

A the Brighton will, the city's latest tourist attraction, offering

you breathtaking views of the coastline. Tonight, we are asking

what the economic View is like. Not just for this busy seaside town,

but for the rest of the region as well. As the economy struggles to

recover from recession, we will ask how can we encourage economic

growth? Should we be making more things? Should we be selling more

brought? Are we doing enough to help businesses prosper? Here at

the Jubilee Library, we have gathered some of the biggest

players in the region to ask them what they are going to do? Can the

decisions made by those inside secured the future of Kent and

Sussex. Tonight we are going to try to find out. Welcome to our economy,

the South East debate. Hello, the loss of over 1000 jobs at Phizer,

the building of a new bridge across the Thames, a huge new airport,

High Street struggling to survive and rising unemployment. Kent and

Sussex are facing some tough challenges. Members of the

government, leaders of our local councils, businessmen and women and

people directly affected by unemployment join us. Let us talk

with Michael Fallon, from the Conservative Party. Your government,

how worried argue? Ow a job is to rebalance the economy to, to get

away from this over-dependence is on services, to back export-led

businesses, manufacturing and the jobs of the future. This region has

to compete, not just with other British regions, but regions across

the world. That is the role for government, I think. To improve our

education and training, above all, to provide the right infrastructure

which has been neglected here. you have touched on all the things

we wish to discuss in the next 40 minutes. Let us speak to Jeremy

Birch, your area is one of the poorest in the country, certainly

in the region. Is there any cause for optimism, economically

speaking? In Hastings we are always optimistic in our visiting economy,

creative industries and manufacturing. It is important to

us, but I don't think the government has a growth agenda at

all. They are cutting too quickly, too fast, going too far, even the

IMF are warning that you need at some stage to look at the state of

the economy and consider whether the austerity programme is really

working. We need some investment in Bic physical infrastructure

projects, some assistance for businesses which we are not getting

in the South East have sufficiently, and we need money in the economy or

we will all struggle. A that is it for now, we will talk to later.

Many would argue that economic growth means more office buildings,

roads and possibly more factories. But should business expansion come

at the expense of our beautiful countryside. At least one person

thinks so, this is the businesswoman and one of Alan

Sugar's perspective former business leaders, Kate. The countryside here

in the South East is absolutely beautiful. But, frankly, I don't

give a toss. Green fields, not important, oak trees, not important.

Rare insects, not important. I tell you what is important, people. That

is what is important. People need jobs, and it never fails to

astonish me that anybody wanting to build a factory or an office or a

motorway is given a hard time by the planning system. Is it going to

destroy some Green Belt, is it going to spoil the view? For God's

sake. This is what we should be doing. These are new offices being

built for American Express in the centre of Brighton to rehouse close

to 3000 workers. If this was a small business in the countryside,

imagine the difficulty they would have. The planning system really

annoys me. For instance, take a look at all the planning

applications last year for industrial buildings. More than

�100,000. In East Sussex about a quarter were refused or not yet

decided. In Kent's the figure is around a third. Don't get me wrong,

I love a tree as much as the next person. But, they should not stand

a new way of economic growth. The answer is obvious, put people first.

That was the tree huggers, Katie Hopkins. She is in our audience

tonight and so it is Caroline Lucas, the country's only Green MP. What

did you make of that? I think it is a really unhelpful polarisation, on

the one hand you have people and then the environment and they are

in opposition. It is through investing in green technologies,

for example, that we can create jobs. Look at what we were doing on

solar jobs, for example, before the tariff that the government scheme

came in. We had only four companies, now we have own earth -- over 30,

but now the government looks to destroy that industry. I would

really challenge the idea that there is some intrinsic

polarisation between the environment and growth on the other.

It is precisely through investing in green technologies that we can

create jobs, for example, jobs in green energy, that area is far more

labour-intensive than the fossil fuel economy. Let us put some of

those questions to Katie. If it is jobs building polar -- solar panels,

that is OK isn't it? It is polarised, people want to expand

businesses right here. Prof percent say they are looking for new

premises but cannot get hold of them. They would employ 2000 more

people if they could. It is all very well to love the countryside

and landscape, but the view has changed. The economy is not as it

was and we need growth. It is time to change the way we think about

the countryside and focus on jobs. Mike, you are a successful Suffolk

businessman, what do you make of the planning laws as they are at

the moment? There is a need for a balance. I am not for concreting

over the countryside. It should be conserved, I am also sharing the

view on so-called brownfield sites on town centres. The green lung of

the City should be kept. There is a case for all towns of cities to

grow, as they always have. There is too much emphasis put on, talking

about what life, but on wildlife. We must think of humans, this is

the human habitat. The towns and cities are the human habitat. That

is my view. I know the planning process is something which

frustrates many people. Leader of Kent County Council, here, that is

your experience. Paul quarter. also a housebuilder and property

investor in London. The planning system is far too protracted and

complex. It needs to be simplified, and I hope the government, when

they announce the plans for the planning framework, will have

listened to the initial consultation and will streamline

the process. In the South East and in Kent, there is a good supply of

red and the available land, in Thames Gateway or East Kent, and

almost advantages. It is the environment, the support from the

banks which is needed to get things to happen. To make sure they

planning conditions are not only us. We must develop sensible

propositions, because, we need available office space in most

parts. Be plans to overhaul the planning system are hugely

controversial. Hillary, from the Council for Rural England, talking

about individual planning applications, what about the

overall view on the expansion and the South East? I would say that

the public protection requires a robust planning system. If people

are planning to invest in development, they must know the

value of that will not be undermined a robust planning system

which affects the development we need, to the places where it will

do the most good and least damage, absolutely vital. I know many

people would like to talk about planning. You are the leader of the

county council in Hastings. His it is the centrepiece of our

regeneration strategy. We are going to spend some �500 million, the

link road is at the heart of that. What it will do, along with other

projects, is create new jobs. New homes. It will provide a huge

stimulus to the economy of our county. We want to liberate the

businesses of East Sussex, so they can thrive on an environment where

real economic activity is growing. I know Jeremy Birch would agree. I

know you cannot comment on specific issues, but having more roads and

railways, you would support that, wouldn't you? Since the coalition

government was formed almost two years ago, there has been a massive

investment in transport. We realise that cutting carbon and increasing

growth is vital. We have the biggest road building programme

since Victorian times, we have got road building going on selectively

across the country, why there is an unprecedented amount of money for

local transport, and the bus network. We recognise transport his

cave. It is also important for generating jobs. You are a keen

cyclist, you always wanted the railway reopens didn't you? Jeremy,

what difference would one little road make to your town? It is not

one little road, the opportunity it would provide to open up the

employment space and housing space is very important. Hastings is

surrounded by areas of outstanding natural beauty by the saved. The

only substantial area which has not got a designation for protection is

this area to the north of Bexhill, you can only open it up through the

link road. It is not a relief road, just to deal with traffic and

congestion, it is a regeneration project. The irony is that those

who are against it, which is legitimate, have come up with the

alternative road. They have this alternative road, which will go

right along the back of the properties. We have spoken about

one road in East Sussex, but if we want to kick-start the economy, a

huge airport would be brilliant wouldn't it? Why believe we should

maximise the opportunities around existing airports. Property

engineers and design should keep up with airport expansion. We must

remain competitive on air travel, London being the central hub of

mainland Europe we should do that. We would love to see Manston grown

into a regional airport and we believe that this could happen. But

let's look at this. As has already been suggested, we need the

appropriate infrastructure with the roads, public transport network, to

lead business to prosper in the economy. He mentioned

infrastructure at the beginning, Michael, and the Government is

introducing controversial planning reform, how will this help with

growing the economy? This will simplify the system and make it

more certain and speeded up. This is not about new airports or

bridges, it is about helping businesses where they want to

expand and adding a new unit sent businesses to make it faster to do

so. People are not certain what will happen, local councils feel

cut out of bed, that is what would be changed we hope in this week's

Budget. A Caroline Lucas? We need a more balanced approach to the

economy, the idea of this airport, we need to remember that aviation

in this country is subsidised to the tune of �10 billion every

single year, so each job created is being massively subsidised. If we

invested in infrastructure and local jobs it would be a good way

to increase in local economies. have to leave it there for now.

What exactly is the state of the economy? The BBC has commissioned

some research to find out and the findings have revealed some

The research shows that we have a lot of businesses compared to the

rest of the country, so surely we should be optimistic about the

future of the economy in the south- east? But it suggests we may not be

as well placed to grow fast, to create new jobs, as some of the

places around us. Researchers say that some of the growth in the next

few years would be in finance, media, professional services like

law firms and accounting. Our problem is that the places around

us like London and elsewhere in the South are stronger in these sectors

than we are. If you look at the top 50 local authorities across England

employing people in those kinds of businesses, not a single one of

them is here in the south-east. Also, although we have a high

number of businesses compared to many areas of the country, a reason

for optimism, new business growth is higher in the regions around us.

If you take the top 50 areas for the whole of England for new

business growth, we only have one place in this list of top

performers and that is Dover. Perhaps surprisingly, despite being

the region close as to where we export the most, Europe, only a low

proportion of business here sells abroad. If you look at the top 50

areas and the country for proportion of businesses selling

abroad, only Crawley in our region makes the grade. So, our economy

with its sizable number of private enterprises, is possibly well

placed to do just fine, but there is little here to suggest a spur to

be a growth and lots of new jobs are coming any time soon. Unless of

course, our leaders decide to do something to change that.

We have several of these leaders to choose from now, but I would pick

on one of them, Paul Carter, we're just a chugging along at the moment,

should we be picking one sector and going for it? That was a bleak

picture that does not represent the three fact of the Kent and East

Sussex economies. -- the true facts. In the south-east, significant

parts of east Kent and East Sussex do suffer from significant

deprivation, but we must play to our strengths and the unique

opportunities in the Thames Gateway as London expands down the estuary.

Massive opportunities for commercial growth as well as taking

some of London's housing growth in the Thames Gateway and the plans we

have for coastal renewal in Essex, Kent and East Sussex, really can

play to their strengths and it comes to infrastructure again. The

opportunity of getting high speed trains into East Kent in under one

marriage gives the virginity to work and live in east Kent. -- in

under 16 minutes gives us the opportunity to work. Do you think

we should go for one sector over another when it comes to looking

for growth? Governments have a bad record of picking winners. If you

look back at the 1970s and the pickings certain sectors and really

backing them, and I would like to see the Government fostering the

right conditions for enterprise to flourish. To do that they need to

review the tax system and simplify it. Investing in Key Infrastructure

which links the small businesses together over time. You think the

Government should back winners? Should not back winners. Would you

think growth will come from? -- where do you think? You need a

balanced economy, so I have one sector struggles, another can pick

up the slack. You want to build on the strengths that exist here, but

that you regulation is a red herring. The problem with many

businesses across Kent and Sussex has a lack of demand in the economy

so the Government needs to stimulate demand and growth.

teacher Carol, I know you were known as a campaigner for fuel tax,

you are also a proponent of exporting more. -- Peter Carroll.

week to not make things in this region. -- we do not make things.

We have got to lawyers, accountants, retail, we have got infrastructure,

when you travel on high-speed Bamber won at 100 mph, this is a

Japanese train. -- high-speed number one. Turbines are brought in

from Italy and Germany, why are we so frightened to say that we need

to do what some of the most advanced economies have done in the

world and start to build things and be proud of them. And he went like

to answer that? Suzanne would? make things, I do not sell that

many abroad, but we have got many opportunities abroad because we're

close to the rest of Europe. We hope that it would be nice to see

the economy growing by exporting, but some of us to make things. --

do make things. The rep companies across East and West Sussex, and a

new company that started 10 years ago has just won a concession to

make badges for the Olympics. You have that American Express here. We

have got some of the best manufacturers in the world. We do

not employ lots of people, we do the clever stuff and generate

wealth that generates tax to pay for the public sector. We need to

get regulation out of the way and speed up the planning system so

that we can get those people back to work. A lot of consensus on this.

Katie Hopkins. We need to focus on tactical things. People, small

business owners will be saying, that's all very well, but tomorrow,

what city-wide due to make my business grow? We need people have

been people to say this is how you can export tomorrow. Just because

we live near Europe doesn't mean anything. I live near my mother-in-

law, I do not want to see her! agree that weekend talks this down

unnecessarily. We are creating the right conditions for investment,

interest rates are low, the economy is more stable than other countries

and we are deregulating where it is sensible to do so. There is a lot

of money going into capital projects and we are concentrating

on renew will be a energy, so we are doing the right things, I think.

-- on renewable energy. Some people harp playing it down unnecessarily.

Are we doing enough, Tom? No, the future of the economy rests larger

with speech smaller and the biker businesses. We have found we're

going around talking to people and they are worried about business

rates, they are worried about the VAT rate and fuel costs. You can

talk about growing through employing apprentices, but they do

not have the time to nurture these people. If we look at the banking

system and finance, you might get some money, but on what terms? What

happens if it goes wrong? There is not enough and regulation is far

too high. We have discussed business expansion, infrastructure

and were to find growth, but in the end, for many people, this is about

jobs. Can you get one? Can you keep one? What happens when you lose 1.

In January in Sheerness, the steel company went bust making many

people redundant. My name is Mark Jones and I worked at 10 steel for

nine years. -- town's steel. This is my part that we had been

together for 10 years. I found out on the Times and Guardian website

that it was announced that we were closing down. In the space of seven,

eight weeks, on the verge of losing everything and possibly going

bankrupt at the moment. Just on the mortgage itself, and you onto

ground, just on that, but with everything else, it could be close

to 10 grand. -- new year on the two Grande. When we have run out of gas,

we take the children up to our Nance to have a bath because we

have no hot water. Clearly his four and Callum is seven, and they do

not really know what is going on, but the older one is noticing

things going missing around the house. We're sitting there one

night, and then Kalen came down with his money box and gave it to

me and said I could have it. He said, you can have that, but this

guy back on, because he likes TV. You have a Turin you ride because

he does it with the cheeky smile. - - you have a tear in your eye

because he does it. I would like to know and can have with my situation

in trying to get this mill back Open and who is responsible for

helping people out? I do not know who to turn to.

That was Mark Jones and he is here with us now, and you have got some

family news for us? My wife has found out she is pregnant.

would normally be celebrating, how are you feeling? OK, we will get

through it, it is not perfect timing. You're happy about the

pregnancy. A Yes. Congratulations. This is heartbreaking. Yes, and it

is the Government's job to have done then at the Department of

Business and the local MP has been looking to see what help can be

provided at the site. A good example at what Kent County Council

does to get more investment into the Pfizer side when that company

was closed. Still a lot of people lost their jobs. Yes, but the

Government went in with a task force to see what they could do to

attract more investment and secondly, the Government has to

come along and see what we can do to retrain people and improve

prospects in the labour market. is not just people that have lost

their jobs, it is be bowled trying to get on the job ladder and the

first place. -- it is people trying. Laura, who graduated recently, what

is your situation? I graduated in 2010 and I went to work abroad in

America working very hard, and I came back and I could not find any

job that is sustainable without the odd temporary call-centre work here

and there for Christmas slack and retail and being told you're over

experienced to work in retail but you do not have enough experience

to work in the industry that you want to, so it is a vicious circle.

I cannot seem to get anywhere. you regret going to university?

and No, it was a great opportunity, but I did not have I any other

option. I was told to go to school, get your great, good university, I

never had the option of, hole, what about a career? He did not want to

work in a call centre but that is what you ended up doing. No. Call

centres, a big success in Hastings, it is not going to employ everyone

in Hastings, not the answer for a There is nothing wrong with call

centres, we have Hastings Direct, we have businesses the we want to

develop, and you can get accreditations and skills.

Recognised qualifications. But they are not for everybody, we want

higher quality skills and jobs, but every redundancy, every redundancy

is a personal tragedy. Across Sussex we have got 8000 youngsters

unemployed. 8000 young people, with the future jobs front of the

previous government, they were the accountable body for it, a very

successful project, six months' paid employment for young people to

give them a real taste of employment. I would like to get an

employer's perspective on getting loads of people chasing jobs.

Suzanne, is this your experience? think that what people are lacking

coming from university is practical experience and skills which would

make them employable. We need to be looking at, too late for Laura

perhaps, but looking at developing skills from 16, so people more

employable. Are our expectations wrong? Probably yes. A I think

people like this lady are fantastic, they are determined. If you are

determined and a worker, and none of the shirkers, which I cannot

stand, she needs to get out there, put her own job out there.

might not find the job she wants. Fine, but small and medium-sized

businesses are nervous, she can convince them. I will stay by your

business, take me on. Don't sit at home in your pyjamas e-mailing out

CVs, that will not work. His it is good advice, I go out as much as I

can and tried to get experiences, I have done internships, the odd

thing in the sector I want to go into, which is fantastic. You do

all the little jobs, why not a sustainable job? I don't really

have the choice, it is rate difficult and it is disheartening a

lot of the time. It is hard. What advice would you give, Norman?

advice is "stick with it", it is the Government's job to make sure

the conditions are right. We must build for the future. Investing in

jobs which will be there in the future, rather than propping up

want which will disappear. We can compete, but people were rather

sniffy about media jobs, or call centre jobs, but they are important.

Similar to green energy jobs, we are not going to be able to work

without these jobs in the future. Ryan, nodding your head, are due in

agreement? A I am, but you must ask about the barriers in taking people

on. You must look at costs, contributions in tax, and

employment law. Are there risks associated with taking people on,

is it easy to move people in and out of jobs to match their skills?

John, you are here from the night, representing many workers. People

have touched on the regulation, is relaxing these issues the answer?

If it were the case, then German and Dutch and French employers

would flood into Kent and Sussex to establish their workplaces here.

The fact is they are much more regulated, more job security, and

people have more of a sense of ownership of the company. The

problem with Britain is that it already is very easy to get people

to find it very quickly. The idea that we need less regulation is a

complete misnomer. Okay. You are making Katie very cross. We have

respect, that is a nonsense. We are well over regulated. Young people

are led to believe if they get a qualification they will become a

brain surgeon, or something. It would be no good for many of us to

be trained as a brain surgeon, we need to promote education but we

need to promote two young people how apprenticeships in

manufacturing to. A great shortage for that in the south. I would like

to talk to Steve Langley, a teacher. Talking about employment prospects

for those in education. As a teacher what is your perspective?

First of all, every single student I teach has a right to be employed.

They need money to earn a the right to live. The gentleman over there,

it is a tragedy he has lost his job. He had the right to have that

education, as teachers we then have to provide that. We have to really.

You must make sure people are choosing the right dream, though.

Exactly. I work with in the creative arts, as we mentioned

before, I think all aspects of education are equally important. We

talk about vocational qualifications, people need to be

trained as carpenters, labourers but we need academics as well. We

must produce well-rounded individuals from education to allow

them to gain the skills for the jobs they want. It is right,

absolutely. We don't yet know the jobs that our children will do.

Some of those jobs have not been invented. What we have to think

about is how to create a person who is ready to enter the workforce.

They may lose their job, therefore, what skills do they have to enable

them for work. We must give them the gift of knowledge. They can

take experiences they have got, take their skills and put them into

the workplace. Whatever that turns out to be. We do not yet know.

Caroline. This Government's policies are making this crisis

worse. This is a government which are has ruined jobs for millions of

public sector workers, then they think the private sector will

miraculously fix it. The government needs to change direction, also,

crucially, they need to with the small and medium-sized enterprises,

the backbone of this country, we need to change things like

procurement. I have spoken to a lot of small businesses in Brighton and

Hove who say it is difficult for them to bid for contracts because

they are quite small. Let's look at ways to involve them more. Centres

for apprenticeships as well, money for the companies for

apprenticeships. Peter Jones. we have been trying to do it is

reorganise the economy to give people the skills they need for the

modern industry and commerce. That means giving them the mass of IT

skills for the digital age. We have restructured their lot of our

cooling system, brought higher education into places like Hastings

and supported the creation of relevant colleges. That is how you

provide opportunity. The there have been some great things said about

education, grinning people for jobs, but what creates the jobs is demand

in the economy. I appeal to the government, you have got to put

demand back in. I will give you one example. The job I represent, they

need fuel duty cut, you will create 175,000 jobs if you do that. You

know what, there is the frustration, you are just not listening. Norman,

you are in government but not listening. We are investing heavily

in job creation. Whether it is through exports, to regulate the

banking industry properly and getting them to lend to small

businesses, we have seen in the last 12 months under this

government, whether it is a capital project across transport we are

investing. We must recognise as well there is a big problem in the

wider world which is causing us difficulties, because of problems

with other European economies which are part of the major export market.

We have a great example here of a young person who is doing it all

himself. Not asking the government or his mother or anybody. I am

running a record Labour, I am employing people around colleges to

give them experiences. I had a meeting with my college about

trying to give experience, so they could so do photography, they could

play, they could put posters up. I am not allowed to do that so I have

not got a C R be checked, but what is that in terms of giving people

experience. What you think about what you have heard? Some of his is

positive, but, we were told that there would be training for us. I

have only had a two phone calls, one from an agency, and one was a

meeting where somebody did not turn up. I know everybody here hope you

get good news on the work front soon. Going back to the politicians

we started with, Jeremy Birch, after what you have heard, are you

any more optimistic? A I am an optimistic person, always

optimistic. We have an opportunity with the budget for the government

to give a lot of optimism. It is incumbent on them not to cut the

top rate of income tax. We get cut up about whether it is 50p, but

back and put money into the economy. We need to see the government

giving out optimism. Only a couple more days to wait. Michael Fallon,

what would you take back to government? I will take back Laura

and James, that is what this debate is about, making sure they have

jobs. A third of unemployed in this region are under 25. We inherited a

lot of this, people without the right skills yet to cannot get into

the labour market. We must cut some red tape to get people through to

the college campuses. That is a good example of how you do get

through. We must be competitive, to make sure jobs really laughed. We

must get the economy right, sort out the public finances, to make

sure we have the infrastructure to support people. You can take Katie

back with Dyche, she would sort out -- with you. There is so much we

have not been able to discuss, the debate continues tomorrow morning