Episode 8 The Bottom Line


Episode 8

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Bells told to mark the exact moment. He is often ranked amongst the

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nation's most revered leaders. Now it is time for the Bottom Line.

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For many of us, the closest we get to personal creative expression is

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in the way we choose to decorate our homes. We wanted to be as individual

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as possible, but we also want to follow the latest fashion. The

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business of helping us to that is the topic of our discussion today,

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design and decoration. It is all ended fickle consumers. Each week,

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influential business leaders gather in London for the BBC Radio 4

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programme the bottomline. You can see it as well as hear it. `` the

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Bottom Line. I have three people with the steeped

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in the well`designed. Kelly Hoppen, founder of Kelly Hoppen Interiors.

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The president of Graham and Brown, and Lois Jacobs, the global chief

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executive of which, a design agency. We'll take a few moment is to meet

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all of you. Kelly, tellers about your company. What is it consist of?

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The company I started at 16 was the interior design company, which is

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the mother of the business, where we run anything from 50 to 60 projects

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at one time. Then we have the publishing side, liberal outlooks

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every two years. We choose 12 projects from a rather well. We have

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a school, we have product design because we have products and shops

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franchise to run the world. It is anything to do with design. Give us

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the story of how it started. You hinted at 16. At 16, I was offered

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to do up a kitchen for stepfather's friend. Then I had a friend who was

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having a relationship with a famous racing driver. At 17 had my own home

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because my father had been killed in a inherited money. I bought myself a

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home. That is where my style began. He saw it and said he would like me

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to do his home. The racing driver that is. It was the first proper job

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in central London. From that, I got more Grand Prix racing drivers and

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built the business on that. The passion and love of design was

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really there from the very early age. The interior design business,

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and that the super rich. It is hundreds of thousands, your

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clients. The millions. I have filtered down, so we sell on. We

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will be a little sell directly to people. I think that you have to

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build a brand at the high end is to be a water filter down. And it is

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very successful, because it become the authority of what you do in your

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brand and what you sell. You can defuse your style and sell it to the

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masses, which is what I have always wanted to do. Sitting next to you is

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Andrew Graham, you designed for them. I do. Tellers were typical

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designed for him would be. I went in and said, this is what I want to do.

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They have a whole team who sit there are drawing and do things. I say, I

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do not like that, but I like this, and they created. I will talk to and

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`` in a moment. They design of? I give them designs and the mood

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board. E to explain it. I was looking at Chinese screens is an

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idea for a texture. I would then put a board together of all of this, and

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the to them, they want to make the moral light is that people can paint

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a colour onto this, so it was almost like a raised texture. I would say,

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can you physically do this? So it is a collage of ideas? From then I

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would sketch and handed over to the team. They then bring it to me and I

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say, I want this smaller, eager, wider, do not like it, throw it

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away. He recovers I want `` here are the colours they want. A guided, and

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I do not know how to physically make a wallpaper. You also designer

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wallpapers. The advantage to your getting Kelly Hoppen... Design is

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about collaboration. You learn from each other. For them to be able to

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work with designers like Kelly is a real experience for our brand and

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people. To tell you about Graham and Brown. Enough Kelly Hoppen. Graham

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and Brown is 67 years old, it is two families. We are third generation.

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It was founded by my grandfather, Harold, and his best friend Henry

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Brown. We are now a global decoration brand. We sell our

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products to 75 countries around the world. Our third guest is Lois

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Jacobs of Fitch, no relation to Abercrombie and Fitch, or to the

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global ratings agency. It is a design agency. It helps other

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companies improve design. It is not just interior design. We are about

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branding and retail design. Were our interior designers come into is

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designing stalls were different clients. Sue have had it a lot of

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clients, he had helped them in China. While Kelly's brands defuse,

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we tend to start that middle mass market and penetrate it. That is

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what we focus on. We spend a lot of time looking at trends in the market

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or throughout the world. About 10% of our people spend their time

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observing what is happening through the world and how people shop. A

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great job. It is. We have heard some things that will pick up on. We will

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look at the peculiarities of consumer taste. They want to be

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different, but they also want to be the same. I wonder how you cope with

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consumers. You think people want to be different? I think people copy

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looks and brands in interior design 100%. In a way, that is upsetting to

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me. I am always trying to get people to be more individual. The amount of

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times people will say, I want this look, the whole thing. But we do is

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create these looks, photograph them, to make life easier for people.

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Reassurance is important when you are dressing yourself all your

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walls, Jules want to play a role in individualised and that. If you put

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a look together, think about how you put it together. You can still

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choose elements of Outlook. That is the personalisation. You have the

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reassurance that the look goes together. People want that

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reassurance. We are seeing democratisation of design, it will

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to the mood boards that you create, individuals now create their own

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mood boards. They used Instagram and all of these kind of social media

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tools. I think there is that balance. They want to feel that they

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have had some influence and that it is their scheme, with the

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reassurance that the brand gives them. What we are finding is that

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brands are creating ways to allow people to do that. The model that we

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created in China is a multistage process. The first thing is that

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customer draws from lots of sources on the website. They then go to the

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store and they are given a coach to help them with all the source

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material that they have drawn on. In China, it is particularly important.

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What people in China need that? In China, the result a DIY market like

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there is in the UK. They have got the mercy of lots of independent

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contractors who might rip them off, might copy substandard products.

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They go for the complete reassurance of the whole offer. You have some

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interesting projects in India with Asian paints. Asian paints is the

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largest paint manufacturer in India and that part of the world. The

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amazing thing you find in India, which is a country and the people so

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well known for their love of colour, they are absolutely terrified of

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using a colour in their homes. It is only relatively recently that this

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increase in the affluent middle`class has had the luxury of

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thinking about colour in their homes. Our client was very future

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minded and took two stalls on the main shopping streets in Mumbai and

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Delhi, where you can buy anything. You can not buy any painted all,

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because they sell through dealers. You go in the store and haven't a

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digital card is eager to the store. You look at different paint

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techniques, you see them in action, you bring photographs of your home

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and you can have an augmented reality look at what different paint

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finishes would look like. They are the team at biggest stores where you

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cannot buy anything. The deal is adjacent to our happy. I think this

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is brilliant. Online is so incredible now. The fact that retail

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on the ground is now going all out to try and get people back into

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stores, it is this fantastic thing, it is driving. I never thought that

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would happen. It is such an exciting time to be in retail. These are

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specific trends, but sometimes they turn against you. Andrew, your

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business had a bad time in the 1990s. Tell us what went wrong

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there. The paper became terribly unfashionable. That was in the

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1990s. What we were doing as an industry, we were by no means the

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market leading to be that we were, we were trying to interpret paint

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effects with wallpaper. If you consider that as a concept is crazy.

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Paint effects, like as lunge painting? It is probably the biggest

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shift we have made in our company's history. The camera with the phrase

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that the definition of madness is doing the same thing time and time

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again, and we liberated our team to start to give out things

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differently. It was a seachange from the top of the organisation. That

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brought it into collaboration with interesting designers. The company

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almost fell. The industry almost failed. It was a great example of

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hubris. In the 1980s it was one of the most vibrant industries in the

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UK. Then it almost died. What we have done as an industry, is

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revitalising to such an extent that wallpaper is a trend right across

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the globe. Have you prepared for the next time? Wallpaper will go out

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again. We are constantly paranoid. You have two different things. The

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important question here is where ideas come from. Andrew, apart from

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Kelly Hoppen, where it design originate from? That is a difficult

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question. You have to have an attitude. We encourage our people to

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travel, we encourage them to collaborate and we do not want them

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spending time in the design studio. We want them out there visiting

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places. The skill though, is collecting all that and bring it

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together `` bringing it all together in a concept. We do that every

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season. We have a team of people that work on what are the trends

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that the consumer want. It is not difficult to get the trend, what is

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difficult is to get the trend at the right time or in the right place. It

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is quite an interesting one. The thing you said is absolutely right.

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It is the timing. There are trend leaders who the press will go to to

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say, in your opinion, where do you think trends will go in the next

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year? Is that you? I do that for most of the press. I have to get my

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trend reports of January. We do that as well. Everybody does it. So you

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are setting the trend is and we are not really a part of it? We're not

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sitting them, we are reserving them Adam Hansen. There is a chicken and

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egg here. Is it consumer tastes that is determining the trend? Is a lot

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of nonsense that? I'm actually very against trends and I always say

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that. I'm against that because in a way, it's not real. This is where I

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was going. I'm saying I'm against trends and everyone knows that but I

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will write them. For example, in the recession, I looked at what we were

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doing, what were people doing more? They were spending more time at

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home. What can you do in the home that isn't going to cost an awful

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lot? How can we nurture that feeling? The economy and what's

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going on in the world plays a part in my trend reports rather than

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saying it's fluffy, it's pink, it's white. The warmth and comfort and

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security in the home that you are talking about, you can see that

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reflect did in stores and workplaces, where people create

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environments where people can feel comes the ball. `` comfortable. It's

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all part of that same trend. We have talked a lot about consumer tastes

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and design and the process of generating it. But let's not forget,

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we are talking about a business as well. The role of a brand name in

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this area must be very important. I am looking at you to some extent,

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Kelly Hoppen. You are a brand in your own right. There's a company,

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an organisation, with your name on it. How much of it is you or your

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name being used? I'm picturing you being in a studio with a lot of

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other people but not Kelly Hoppen actually doing most of the work? I'm

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in my studio every day at nine o'clock. Up until one year ago, I

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designed every project to leave my studio in 38 years. I love it. But

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you have lots of other people. I have one of the designer who has

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been training under me for four years. She does a lot of work but

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nothing goes out without me checking it. What I have underneath me are 40

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technical people and we do our visuals. For every job, they might

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be 30. Computerised visuals. Up until one year ago, I would give the

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position for every visual. I now have a team that can do that. But

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the top level things that you do... And I meet every client and install

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every job person in. But the brand is important, isn't it? Intellectual

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property is also important. This is a business where... How easy is it

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to protect your intellectual property? Lowers, you have designed

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stores. You are all copying each other, presumably. Again, it's about

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inspiration. For Fitch, it's very hard to copy it. You don't have the

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same space. You can look at the certain finishes that we've used or

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the design of the customer journey that we have created through the

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store, but that's much harder to copy than a product that's more

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specific. Andrew, do your wallpapers get copied? Yes. Not so much in

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Western Europe or North America. 30 years ago, they did. There is

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respect for differentiation of design but we do get copied in Asia,

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unfortunately. You have to take a long`term view. I'm sure in ten

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years, copying will be less prevalent in China. Culturally, it's

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still there. But it does reinforce your brand potential because if they

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are copying you, you still have desirability. Kelly, you have stores

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in China. Yes. But we are copied all the time but I'm slightly to blame

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because I have books where I tell people how to do it. Equally, when I

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was doing a book signing in Beijing, I looked at the text and I thought

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that it didn't seem right... And I looked at the book and it turned out

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they all copies. So we wrote a note on Twitter and said if anyone ever

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brings me a book that is not real, I won't sign it. But furniture,

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everything is copied. If it happens in this country, however, you have

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more of a chance of doing some. Companies like us, we pitch for

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business. And we pitch against local design studios as well. That's an

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issue. You might not win the pitch but then suddenly you will see a

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store that looks remarkably like yours. We tried very hard not to

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pitch creatively but on our track record. But sometimes, you do

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get... Give away the product. Because there is still this demand

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for designers, particularly from the UK, in emerging economies. This is a

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good point. How far are these "Western" concepts and designs

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export of all to emerging markets? `` able to be exported to emerging

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markets? Is huge. Half of our work is in Asia. In Hong Kong, go into

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any one of those stores, they only want British, Italian, French,

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German, Belgian brand names. They won't buy anything that is Chinese.

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It has to be made outside of Asia. Made, not just designed? Yes. We

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were making some of our furniture out of China. We are now making it

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out of Britain and selling twice as much, exporting it back to China.

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And they are looking for that made in Britain quality. You manufacture

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your wallpaper in Lancashire. You don't have to do it there but it's

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particularly interesting when it's manufactured as well is designed...

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It's very Artisan. Even though our product is well invested and

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state`of`the`art, the mixture of colour and the interpretation of

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designed to production is where the skill is. And we have people in this

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business who have been doing it for all their lives. There is an Artisan

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element to it. And that just cannot be copied. And it's just so nice...

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It's back to Kelly Hoppen 's point that there is a cachet in it being

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made in China. Where will design go over the next 20 or 30 years? When

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things become more global or converged around the world? Or, as

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everybody gets better after... If the European model becomes less

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prevalent in some ways, if it becomes more localised or

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diffused... I wonder which way it will go. I think that European

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designs will always stand out and be different and it's why we have done

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well as designers in America and China and in the Middle East. We

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have something that's different and we have lots of heritage. And I

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think that we will always hold onto that. I'm not certain. I think we

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are there for a while yet but I'm completely inspired by some of the

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designs I have seen coming out of the newer market, more so than in

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the US and things like that. I'm just saying that in Europe, I think

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that we will always have something that's different. When we see

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emerging markets with new designers, you think... I think Asia in the

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last two years has been at the forefront. And there will be another

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market. Turkey was another. But that's what's great about design.

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It's constantly evolving and getting better. Somebody younger and better

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will always come out from the left wing somewhere, keeping you on your

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toes. Cast your own businesses ahead 20 years. Where do you see them

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going? Kelly, what about you? I don't know. I will be on a yacht

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somewhere. I still like doing it and people still want their homes

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designed and there is always a new product or something new... I like

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challenges. 20 years? I don't know how old I will be then. I will still

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be irritating you. I don't think we will be as western centric as we

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are. In most of our studios, we have people from the West. We will have

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that sort of change in the next five years, let alone 20. Andrew, your

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business is interesting because you are third`generation. Still the two

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families of the founders, Henry and Harold. Fourth`generation? I don't

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know, to be honest. There are seven directors on our board and four of

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them are not in the family. We would not have survived all grown if we

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did not have those external forces. But I think we will be more

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international. 30% of our sales are outside of the UK and in 20 years

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time, I would estimate about 80%. Manufacturing in Blackburn?

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Certainly we will be based in Blackburn, yes. Well, I am afraid we

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have to do with the blinds on this conversation. My guests were Kelly

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Hoppen of Kelly Hoppen Interiors, Andrew Brown of Graham and Brown and

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Lois Jacobs from the design agency, Fitch. The downloads from this

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programme are available. Details are on our website and you can always

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listen to it on BBC Radio 4. We also like to get your e`mail messages.

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Just send us a line. If you have just come in after a

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night out, you don't need me to tell you that it's quite cold out there.

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Some fog to watch out for as well. If you are about to head out, that's

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something to bear in mind. These

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