The Sunday Prom: The Cleveland Orchestra BBC Proms

Over the past seven weeks here on BBC Four we've travelled the world

in the company of some far-flung international visitors from China,

in the company of some far-flung Switzerland, Turkey and Australia.

Over the next couple of hours we will be bringing you the best of the

West. Hello. Tonight we're live at the

Royal Albert Hall to welcome some of the greatest musicians from across

the pond - The Cleveland Orchestra. Tonight we're live at the Royal

Albert Hall to welcome some of the greatest musicians from across the

pond - The Cleveland Orchestra. They'll finish with the mighty First

Symphony by Johannes Brahms - a work which occupied and obsessed him for

over 20 years. Also tonight, a brand new and brilliantly elegant Flute

Concerto by Jorg Widmann. But first, they open with Brahms's

Academic Festival Overture. Not the best title for a piece of music -

even Brahms didn't like it - but it served a purpose. He wrote it for

the University of Breslau as a thank you for awarding him an honorary

doctorate. Brahms himself described it as an

overture "full of laughter" and whilst it might not have us rolling

in the aisles today, it is great fun. Based on a medley of German

student songs, for The Cleveland Orchestra it's more frat party than

final exams. And here comes tonight's conductor,

the Music Director of the Cleveland Orchestra, Franz Welser-Most, to put

the Fest in Brahms's Academic Festival Overture.

Franz Wesler-Most there, conducting the Cleveland Orchestra.

The Orchestra has announced the goal of having the audience of the

youngest ever. They have set up an institution to teach people about

classical music. For my money, they are going about it the right way.

Force Well, next the Cleveland Orchestra

are bringing us a new work, a concerto for their principal

flautist Joshua Smith, written by their former composer-in-residence,

Jorg Widmann. Tonight, some friendly faces from

across the Proms season will be joining me, starting with none other

than the writer and broadcaster, Tom Service.

Tell us a bit about Jorg Widmann? He is one of the most interesting

composures around of any generation. What he does is so interesting and

appealing for audiences. He takes things you think you know, fragments

of the classical, romantic and in this case in the Concerto we are

going to hear, Fluet en Suite, things to do with the Baroque

tradition and especially a piece of Bach that people may know for a

flute solo and Orchestra, I won't say too much, it should be fairly

obvious towards the end of the Concerto. He takes those ideas and

refashions them. He is playing a game, between things you think of

heard before but are sounding new as well. Which is why his music is so

appealing. When this particular piece of work was premier, I gather

it got a standing ovation He says this doesn't belong to his epic

Concertos. He has written so much already. He is one of the world's

sought-after clarinettists: He is he has written opera, and la large

catalogue of orchestral pieces and chamber works. This piece ends with

a flourish, and this very special Baroque reference at the end. The

way the Concerto works is a suite of dances. A lot of music at the begin

something quite slow but it never loses a sense of pulse and above

all, colour. It puts the Orchestra into groups, we start with the flute

flying with a family of flutes, the bass flute, piccolo and everything

in between and all the orchestral groups you hear in the seven

movements before the final one, the eighth movement only comes together

in that finale. It has a trajectory all the way through T it is

beguiling. The you mentioned him as a collar inetist, is he particularly

close to the wood wind sound, do you think -- clan ettist.

He -- clarinetist. He says writing for instruments he

doesn't know so well pushes any more another direction. He understands

all of these instruments, frankly, brill brilliantly. One important

thing is that he is using a sound world which comes from - it's got

everything in it, in a way. It has German composures, and others who

are influences on him. Yet there is this relationship with classical

traditions. He is drawing on a huge palate. What is brilliant about him,

is he is able to put it together to create a coherent suite in this

piece, and approximate in pretty well everything I have heard n

different ways. Tell us about what we are going to hear, the flutist,

jos. -- Josh? It was written with Joshua Smith in mind. Hearing him

play the piece in rehearsal and a recording t sounds like the whole

Orchestra, which is a combination between real precision and a great

deal of warmth as well. There is a piece for Joshua, written for him,

he has to sing and play at the same time. So you get this really

strange, sort of double voice. You almost think there is two - you

think it is a sound that can only be introduced by two instruments, two

players, and it is him. The beatboxing of the

players, and it is him. The here in the Royal Albert Hall. Who

That is kind of an upbeat for a thought we would ever hear that.

That is kind of an upbeat for a genuinely funny piece. You don't

That is kind of an upbeat for a Wide margin -- Josh is their

principal flautist. Do you feel there is a

principal flautist. Do you feel writing for a? Yes.

principal flautist. Do you feel has in their

principal flautist. Do you feel partnership is with George Snell.

principal flautist. Do you feel was about bringing a European warmth

precision and glamour of the American sense. That is what these

guys have got, I think. We are going to hear it in spades. There is

Joshua Smith coming to take his place as the soloist in tonight's

flute suite. Well, we said there might be some

laughter towards the end. There was. Lots of cheers. But Joshua Smith,

the soloist in that Jorg Widmann Concerto, Fluet en Suite, formed

here on the BBC Proms, with the Cleveland Orchestra, conducted by

Franz Wesler-Most. And, as Joshua Smith comes back on

to the stage, to take another bow, I'm sure I don't have to tell you

what that rather famous work in the last movement was, but in case you

have forgotten, it was from Bach. You may have spotted that rare

thing, an orchestral harps chord. They are bringing back Baroque and

the 18th century vibe to that very new work. The famous work was Bach's

Badinerie. They are waiting to welcome the composure, Jorg Widmann,

on to the stage. He is on his way, we are pretty sure. Who knows. He

must have been right up at the back. Meanwhile, the Orchestra on their

feet. There he is, there is Jorg Widmann. Not just a composure as we

were hearing earlier. He is a conductor a clarinettist. Obviously

very popular with the musicians of the Cleveland Orchestra, too.

APPLAUSE A really warm response for that work

here in the Royal Albert Hall. A really musical family he comes

from. His sister is the violinist, Carolin Widmann, she foamed a

Stravinsky Concerto for the violin here at the Proms a few years ago,

some of you may remember. -- she performed. It is time for the

interval. Well, time for the interval and in

20 minutes' time, the Cleveland Orchestra will be tackling one of

the greats - Brahms's First Symphony.

But in the meantime, I'm glad to say that I'm still joined by Tom

Service. What did you make of that? Was it

everything you hoped for and more -- I'm glad to say Tom is still with

me. Well, it did but in the end. Bach's Badinerie and William Tell. ?

Yes. I thought I spotted it. All that going on. In the middle of that

playfulness, a moment of great Loire civil and beauty. But again, cunning

which the, the Venitian gondola song, that's what the music was

called when the tap, tap enters the buk et. Gags around Loire civil. It

is a dream of Baroque suite seen through a modernistic prism. Just as

you thought you knew what was going to happen next it

you thought you knew what was going off silter. A quote I have here

says. "Sunken worlds suddenly emerge, only

to reach the surface, hover in dangerously distorted fashion and

then sink back to the bottom." I thought it was more fun than that?

Yes, that is with his work, they end up going caricatures, monsters,

rather than a thing of beauty. But he went through the mire on that and

came up with something in its own terms that was ro dollently sensual.

The great thing about it, is, if you don't know the pieces or tradition

it comes from, none matters. That reception from the Prommers, proves,

this is music that works as that performance, above all, for that

performance for the people who was written for, Cleveland Orchestra and

Joshua Smith. It was a tour de force. So many different styles of

playing ie. ' In flautist, but you could see he was running the gap it

there. Technically speaking, it was really stuff what he has done.

Looking at the score, there is a lot for him to get his chops around,

even from the iPad. But he seemed completely in the music. That's one

of the thing about new pieces, when they are written for Orchestras and

performers and when people do them, over and over again, they get a

chance to become classics, as familiar to that Orchestra and

Joshua, as Brahms, if you like. I think think then the performance

only gets better. More new think think then the performance

needs that chance to become part of the blood of that Orchestra. It gets

under And another member of the Proms

family is back stage. Razia Iqbal will be meeting some of the

musicians in tonight's concert, starting

musicians in tonight's concert, and Jorg Widmann.

What a performance. Thank you very much for joining me hot off the

stage. Jorg Widmann, this was the UK premier, although your work has been

played for. Was that an exciting moment? It was exciting. I wrote the

played for. Was that an exciting piece for Josh and for Franz

Welser-Most, and the Cleveland Orchestra but hearing it here in

this wonderful atmosphere in such circumstances was very touching.

Joshua, this was written for. How does that work, when you know this

piece has been writ enfor you specifically? It is such an amazing

experience, really. Jorg and I didn't really know each other well

when he was writing the piece. I was very hands off

when he was writing the piece. I was him to be able to do whatever he

getting is something that really getting is something that really

does feel that it reflects, somehow, everything that is inside of my

head, which is amazing. He is great for that. You say you kept your

distance, but did you want input from Joshua? Well, actually then,

afterwards, we had very, very close - we worked very closely together,

going back and forth. I wrote some pages and he wrote comments. I

remember, the wrong proportions I had because a miscalculation, just a

number, remembering the numbers. So, I think that is really how I

consider a collaboration like that should be, really, because from all

sides, everybody wants to be experimental and we try and it is a

premier. Nobody ever has heard the piece. Nobody ever played it and I

think that's how it was done in former times as well. I'm sure the

former composures they all - and even from my instrument, one cannot

compare it, but when they wrote for the clarinettists, they are all

written for certain players and I would not have been able to write

this piece without Joshua's help. The UK premier, Joshua, how does it

feel to step out in front of the Orchestra? It is amazing. It feels

surreal but it is such a fantastic experience, really, yes. And you are

basically playing in the Brahms, in the second half. Are you crazy?

Crazy. Crazy. Gentlemen, thank you both very much. Good luck in the

Brahms. That's it from us for now. We will be seeing you again shortly.

I'm delighted to say I'm joined by tonight's conductor. That was

wondserful. You have been with the Cleveland Orchestra for what, 12

years, you are the best-placed person to ask - tell us a little bit

about the Orchestra, and the sound you are creating? The sound is

created very much in our hall at home, in Cleveland which has a lot

of intimacy. It is a gorgeous optical hall from 1930. It is really

one of the best concert halls in the world. You can make refinement,

which, in a lot of halls, are not possible. It is so - so it creates a

sort of chamber music feel in the Orchestra, which is sort we are very

different to other American Orchestras because of that hall. A

lot of big concert halls in America, lead to American Orchestras playing

sort of muscular, let's say and that's very different with this

Orchestra. So you are going for a precision, is that right? It's, on

one side it is precision, and the other thing is, as I sort of - I

would call myself a big opera freak. I love singing sound. And that's

something I demand always from them, that they shape long lines, that

sing through the instrument. Nine years since you were last here in

the Royal Albert Hall at the Proms, my goodness, how time flies, how is

it to be back? Wonderful. It's definitely a unique setting and it's

really such a special audience. In most conduct halls, in yoorp and in

America, in the first few rows, you see people, very often well-dressed.

-- in Europe. But you can tell they go, maybe not because of the music.

Here you come in and you have the feeling everyone in the room is a

true music-lover and that makes it very special. No danger of them all

being well-dressed. That's for sure. No problem there. Listen, we are

going to hear a different side of Brahms in the second half. We had

the jolly Brahms in the Academic Festival Overture now the first

symphony coming up. How will we enjoy your interpretation? The first

symphony, everyone knows it took him a long time to write that because

the big shadow of Beethoven was still in the room. And he - you can

tell that he's inspired by Beethoven. I love to look at these

photographs of Brahms and at that age, when he wrote that symphony,

you can fell in his eyes, there is an enormous fire. So, I'm sort of

not going for the more solemn and, you know with a long beard Brahms, I

love the inner fire of that music. And, well, as you say, we do have

this image of Brahms with the big beard, the #08d man, but we heard

very youthful music at the beginning of tonight's pro.s -- old man?

Absolutely. -- tonight's Proms Absolutely. You hear the influence

of Beethoven but, like, in the opening of the last movement, it is

a requiem to Schumann. You can hear he knew the music of Schumann

extremely well. I just like, in principle, I like it when it is not

too heavy. Food or music. Well, go and have something to eat now in the

interval. Nothing too heavy and we look forward to hearing Brahms First

symphony in the second half. Well, over now to Razia again,

because she is at the helm with a group, and as you have heard we have

stellar musicians and we have two standing by with Razia. I'm in the

green room joined by Tanya Ell, playing the cello and Jessie

McCormick who plays the horn, both proudly holding their instruments,

as though they are extensions of their bodies. Welcome to the Proms

all the way from owe high yoe. Tell me, what has your experience been

like here? Phenomenal. We are so honoured to be here. There is such a

unique festival atmosphere. We were totally unprepared for the poem they

read at the beginning before we played which loosens everyone up. It

was great. What about you? Exciting so far. We had our first rehearsal

this morning in the Royal Albert Hall which is quite a busy place as

we found out when we arrived. But it has been really fun to play in such

a unique atmosphere here. Yours is an Orchestra with a long history,

going back to 1918. Does that make a difference to the sound, how you

play, that history that tradition? Well, we would really like tow think

that Well, we would really like tow think

down. -- to think. When we joined the Orchestra there were a few

members left from a long time ago. You learn by sitting in the

Orchestra and picking it up. We hope to do the same thing for the members

coming in. You were here nine years ago. Give me an example of a typical

day in the life of someone who is in the Cleveland Orchestra? It depends

on where we are. If we are on tour or in Cleveland or, you knows where,

where our travels take us. I joined right after the Orchestra last

returned to Royal Albert Hall. So you have been hearing for years

about what it was like it experience this. So, it is pretty exciting to

actually be here finally. And every day is different for you?

Definitely. I mean sometimes you will find us at our music, our

summer home which is Blossom Music Festival. An outdoor amphitheatre.

We also have a home in Miami. And we also travel to Europe. And the

Brahms First symphony coming up. Challenging playing that? -- and the

Brahms As a horn player all four symphonies have their own unique

challenges. It is the first symphony of his I got to know. It is probably

the symphony I have played the least so far with the Orchestra. So I'm

looking forward to all the performance opportunities we have on

this tour, starting with tonight. Thank you both so much for speaking

to us. Enjoy the second half of the concert. Katie, back to you. Thank

you. Tom is here, still with me. As we look forward to that Brahms and

enjoy the sound of the Cleveland Orchestra, fascinating hearing from

from Franz Wesler-Most, about the sound he tries to create, the

precision, is that something you have picked up over the years or

that he has created? To me, it is more about the singing qualities he

was talking about. I mean his experience of as an opera conductor,

until very recently in Vienna, is something I think he has brought in

a way to the Orchestra. One of the - if there was a criticism of the

previous conductor's time, there is a hard-driven quality to some of

those performances but that was already back in 1970s, the Orchestra

has changed since that. That singing quality is S I remember a

performance he gave with this Orchestra of a new world #1i78

phoney. New world symphony, it was operaticically dramatic, like I have

never heard before. We spend time talking about the central European

sound or German sound and we generalise about the American sound

but it becomes very clear how many fine Orchestras there are in America

and how they all have their own character, of course They are all

different. The big five, Los Angeles, New York, Boston,

Cleveland. They have their particular sound and particular

traditions. A whole sweep of music-making in America. It is

absolutely impossible to generalise. I think Franz Wesler-Most is right

in a sense to talk about - there has to be, in a wakes what he called a

muscular quality of playing - because of the sizes of the houses

they are often playing to. The New York fill mobbic, folk -- New York,

Philharmonic, folk. The other thing about this season, has been hearing

Orchestras from all over the world. Do you think the centre of gravity

is moving, as we start hearing orchestras from China, South Korea

and Qatar? I think what it proves is rather the sense, that the idea of

the Orchestra, the idea of orchestral music - first of all the

repertoirical take all different interpretations, which is why we

still listen to, for example, Brahms Fist Symphony. Each conductor will

create their own meanings in their cultures, whether it is Qatar,

Singapore, Iceland or Cleveland. They might like the same, a load of

people on stage playing music in the Royal Albert Hall but they are all

doing sitely different things. It makes it so exciting, doesn't it. --

slightly different things. Stay right there, we'll hear them tackle

Brahms First Symphony. Now, everyone's favourite musical

guide, pianistic genius David Owen Norris, famous for his Chord of the

Week on Proms Extra, gets a chance to look at more than just one chord,

as he shows Razia Iqbal some things to listen out for in this epic

work. It wasn't easy for Brahms to write a

symphony? No, it wasn't. Everyone was expecting it but he had the

shadow of Beethoven, so he took 20 years to think about it. A symphony

full of thought and ideas. And over a long period of time, so track some

of the ideas and themes in the symphony for us? The first bit he

wrote down was the beginning of the fast section of the first movement

which he wrote down in 1862. The premier wasn't until 1876. Some of

the ideas there come back all the time. There is contrary motion where

I hands go into different directions, I'm using black notes as

well as white notes. Then he has, four notes following in a very

famous rhythm. He has Beethoven in his mind, right from the beginning.

And a moment later he has another idea. I think of it as notes next to

each other. He draws our attention to them with funny discordant

harmonies. So, we are going to hear those a

lot. Then after that, he takes his Beethoven five rhythm apart. And

then eventually they get to a big note. And then it goes all through

the orchestra, like this. What does he do? How does he bring

together all of these ideas that he has been percolating for more than

20 years? How do they come together? In the development section, the bit

we go through in order triumphantly return to the first ideas, he puts

together, for example, two versions of the Beethoven, five and the one

we heard, the quick one, and statement he is simply going --

Beethoven five, in the bass. And a few pages later, he does the same

rhythm but with a contrary motion. And there he is, back at the

beginning. Let's talk about the slow movement. Which is really

remarkable. What is it, about it, that makes it special? It is in a

very unexpected kee. We have been in C minor. At the end he changes it

into an E natural. And he says - that's the note I'm going to pick

and my slow movement is going to be in E major. And in the second bar,

the horns play "Beethoven five" and a moment later we have kromatic

contrary motion. And then Brahms thinks of other

things to do, gentle things to do with the Beethoven five rhythm. And

then the owe bee makes a tune of it. Really lovely. And the third

movement, also in an unusual key, how does he turn the corner? It goes

up, from C to E and now we go from A flat. And the clarinet has a nice

little tune. All that is, really, is the four

notes falling but decorated with notes next to each other, so that

last note doesn't arrive for ages. And Brahms put that procedure into

our mind for later. It comes back, that idea. How does he move towards

the finale. Lots of loose ends to tie up He needs to show us these

different ideas in one grand Meldy. He decides to Mick a reference to

Beethoven's Ninth symphony. The notes are falling but decorated with

notes next to each other once again. -- to make a reference.

It is the same shape as Beethoven 9. Now in Beethoven 9, we now go... And

Brahms does this... With a sneaky little bassoon, just

like in the Beethoven. It wouldn't be a surprise if he finished off by

going: Because, by design, they are

parallel. It is interesting, isn't it? So notes next to each other, a

shadow of Beethoven over him the whole time but it is an homage, too.

It is a homage and an escape. He is trying to escape from Beethoven. It

is homeopathic medicine. A little bit of Beethoven and you will get

better. But where does he go with the big tunes? The ending is really

exciting? At the end, Brahms takes a big tune and takes it apart. The

first two notes, two different notes, he turns it into...

A very exciting chord and then he takes the next couple of notes and

he turns that into a cry of triumph. Because he has laid the ghost of

Beethoven. David Owen Norris, thank you very much.

David Owen Norris - who else - with his inimitable guide to

Brahms's First Symphony. And if you missed yesterday's edition of Proms

Extra, with David's Chord of the Week, you can see it on iPlayer. it

was the last in the series. Well Tom Service is still here. We

just heard the prommers talking about how much money they have

raised for musical charities. Always lovely to hear about that. Of what

did you reckon to David's assessment, musical homeopathy? An

escape from Beethoven. Loif that, the escape happens in another way,

with going further back to the past. The opening is a veiled reference to

Bach, the math sue passion. It is in six eighths, and poundingly slow,

and you have the pounding notes in the symphony but you hear right at

the start, that David was talking about, the way Brahms is working

inside the music, one line going up, one going down at the same time. If

you listen to the opening of Brahms' first sieve phoney, it is not about

a single theme, but a complex interweaving. That's how he escapes

Beethoven. Beethoven is about cells or fragments. Brahmses a all these

things going on at the same time. It is something he learnt from Schumann

but above all from Bach. That's what is radical from the symphony, it is

an attempt to refashion the symphony, not just for the whole

1870s but to say - look at the the whole of the Brahms us a troe German

culture. You have Brahms, Schumann, of course, but Brahms is

culture. You have Brahms, Schumann, a vision not for just the symphony

as the grandest possible form of instrumental music but also saying -

this is what German culture might amount to and how we might take it

forward. He was saying that but at the same time, Wagner, his huge

rival was saying something completely different Absolutely.

Wagner's idea is to reject almost completely the past and come up with

the music of the future. He nicked a lot of it from List. But anyway, you

have two competing ideas of German music, really. Brahms is about a

summation, but saying - we can find the seeds of our future in this

incredibly rich tradition, if we can only have the brilliance to fuse it

altogether. Wagner is about saying - chuck it out, we need to start

again, go further back chuck it out, we need to start

Brahms took 20 years to work on it, but this is the summation of a

fantastic work and I do believe, I can see our maestro tonight to

conduct Brahms' first symphony, the Cleveland Orchestra, refreshed,

after the interval, standing by. Fl

CHEERING AND APPLAUSE #

What a wonderful return to the Proms for the Cleveland Orchestra. A

performness of Brahms First Symphony. 20 years in the writing.

Wonderful flying there by the Cleveland, conducted by the music

director for the last 12 years, Franz Wesler-Most.

Well, we heard a lot about before that performance about the shadow of

Beethoven that held over Brahms, one of the reasons why it took him so

long to write the symphony. He needn't have worried. When it

appeared it was hailed as Beethoven's Tenth symphony, whether

he thought that was a double-edged compliment, who knows. You may have

just recognised our flutist, Joshua Smith, principal flautist for the

Cleveland who played the Concerto earlier, being singled out by Franz

Welser-Most, being singled out. The Orchestra led by William Preucil,

who you will also have heard, foamed a solo during the Brahms.

A great party piece there. An encore from the Cleveland Orchestra,

thoroughly enjoyed by the musical director, Franz Wesler-Most.

Cuyahoga a traditional

featuring in Strauss's opera set in the time of knights and chivalry.

featuring in Strauss's opera set in Well, that's it for now from this

live concert at the BBC Proms. This time next week

it'll all be over. But before then,

tune into BBC Four on Thursday for contemporary masterworks with

Tom Service, and then Rachmaninov's 2nd Piano Concerto on Friday.

Saturday brings all the fun to an end in grand style, with the

Last Night of the BBC Proms 2014. Do join me then.

But now, from all of us here at the Royal Albert Hall, good night.