Scotland's Future: The 5 Live Debate

Chancellor. It is a very clear message from Nick Clegg — back the

leadership over austerity. In just over a year's time, the

people of Scotland will vote in a people of Scotland will vote in a

Referendum which could change the UK for good. They will get the chance

to vote yes or no to the question, Should Scotland be an independent

country? This week, we will be examining the issues and this

morning, five Live's Victoria morning, five Live's Victoria

invited audience to debate invited audience to debate

Scotland's future. Let us head back there. Who can help this lady? Could

you get a remake of. I totally agree. We have spoken about so many

stinking rich. The money we do not stinking rich. The money we do not

spend on nuclear weapons will be spent to create a better society. I

absolutely crucial. I have walked have got four children.

The unemployment level is one —— the from the East End of Glasgow today.

it is one in three. We cannot keep going on like this. I have never

seen such a stark divide. Wealth and privilege on one side. I have

canvassed in the Buddhist canvassed in the Buddhist

constituency in Britain, barrel and. We need to vote for

independence. Would you all agree that independence would help these

children? For the claim of being pure and the code being unemployed,

we cannot go on like this. She has moved. We want to give our children

our future. I think the debate has been puerile today, there has been

too much talked about money, but not enough talked about what we will

actually do with it. Earlier on, we actually do with it. Earlier on, we

had a gentleman, beer with me one second. Welcome back to those on the

BBC News Channel. We have the yes camp, the no camp and the undivided

and decided people in the middle. We have had a slight change of use to

some. Some people have gone to the no camp, some people gone to the yes

what I have here today, I think that independence is definitely the right

way to go. I think what was just way to go. I think what was just

England and the Welsh valleys. The children in poverty in the south of

England and the Welsh valleys. The women who as a trade unionist, the

trade union movement are fantastic for workers, what about workers in

the south of England who cannot stand the Westminster government? I

have problems with them and so do many people in the south of England.

over each other. Lady over here. I over each other. Lady over here. I

feel it has been one—sided. On the point of its tail poverty, the point

is, do not take my word for it but the SNP 's word for it, why don't we

would get the independent nonpolitical dose of Rowntree

foundation, which has already said that all of the power to address

tail poverty already exist in the Scottish Parliament. I don't health

and education, read the report, I am and education, read the report, I am

happy to send it to you. We have a Scottish government that is obsessed

with the referendum and not in changing Scotland. I passionately

believe we should change believe we should change tail

poverty, —— child poverty, not to fight about who has power. I want to

fix this not only in Glasgow but across the rest of the latest

kingdom. We will do that better as across the rest of the latest

kingdom. We will do that better as part of the UK. We

movement. Clearly this is movement. Clearly this is

unscientific. I want to answer our wealth, to —— who make

point. My socialism does not end in point. My socialism does not end in

Glasgow or Newcastle Liverpool. You socialism does not end in Dover.

deacon in Scotland. I have in touch are trying to create

with many in England who see us as something that will help them change

something fantastic. Many people are independence mean that

something fantastic. Many people are about changing flags, but I am about

called James Connolly said that you called James Connolly said that you

cannot just change a flag, you must change the system. That is what we

will do. What we can do is we can change —— we can create a system, a

beacon of progress that people then so can say, look out the trees give

people fairer, with her progress of their society is. This will be a

springboard for them to argue and create a better society in England

and elsewhere. Let's give someone else a chance. My name is Katie, I

am 16 and in school. I would like to make a reference, Labour does cut

child poverty by a third in ten years, and you did not mention it.

You had the time to mention it to all of these people and you didn't.

That is the kind of passion we will see that will convince people to

vote for the SNP. One of the main reasons I am undecided is, it you

stood here and give me a solid argument and shook me some passion,

Scottish and the thing that the SNP Scottish and the thing that the SNP

and the Yes campaign are showing national pride and so far we have

had nothing from the union to show that we feel Scottish and that you

want us to want us to stay. It is the lack of

passion that will make people move over. Is the Better Together

campaigners were more passionate you would be in the cab? Labour have

done so much good work for the country in the past decade and I am

sure many people agree. The register tail poverty by one third. Do you

The Mac can I address this, I did The Mac can I address this, I did

say that Scotland have to child poverty across the UK. That is all

last week, you and Nicola Sturgeon last week, you and Nicola Sturgeon

bickered over silly issues but what you should be doing is speak to

people and show them why you should be passionate about the union. I am

from Northern Ireland originally, and live in Scotland and to, it

matters I only business registered in England. Identity wise, I do not

store where I fit in. You are store where I fit in. You are

welcome here. The main reason I welcome here. The main reason I am

on this side of the room is that having read the limited impartial

advice I can find, the bottom line is that we do not know what we are

voting for because negotiations voting for because negotiations are

taking place after the vote. If voting for because negotiations are

go in to buy something you know the price, you sit down and single seat

a deal. We have no idea what we are a deal. We have no idea what we are

entering into. From my point of view, the Yes campaign, there

campaign is like a major sports brand slogan, just do it. We don't

know what we are doing. On our friends point about we do not know

the detail, will there be answers, how many actors will there be in the

White Paper? That is up to the people to judge, if the answers

sufficient. Mike we have some sufficient. Mike we have some

movement here. From the undecideds to the yes. Tell us why you have

moved. They seem to have a better argument that is for us, free

education, jobs, economic security. That is really important for us

because we are trying to have a future.

that side but we are seeing one here that side but we are seeing one here

which is what I feel passionate about. Is it utopian? We have some

people who have moved to the Better Together. You prefer the United

Kingdom to stay the United Kingdom. I am Mark, I am Irish and have lived

in Edinburgh half my life. I have always been very Irish and always

will be, that will never will be, that will never change. The

this argument except being in the this argument except being in the

English. —— anti—English.People might disagree with that but all you

are doing is picking on everything that has ever gone wrong. I live in

the Clinton —— I live in the country where this has happened. Is it worth

dying for? Someone else has moved to Better Together. I am Slovakia and

live in Edinburgh for one year. I live in Edinburgh for one year. I

was not sure because I do not feel I have the right to have an opinion

about independent Scotland. I started to feel that Scotland should

be independent but the yes group were pushing too much and it's did

not sit well with me at all. That is why I am here. I think that Scotland

should be a part of Britain. Can I come back to Brian Taylor. The

question about detail. When the people of Scotland vote in September

the White Paper, the prospectus for the White Paper, the prospectus for

independence. That is based on the 1987 Labour government when the

advance the white advance the white paper on

devolution. People voted on that. It had to go through the House of

Commons. In 1997 it was a Labour government advancing a White Paper

in the same Labour government was offering to Stewart through the

Commons and the laws —— the Lords. The momentum created by the yes for

the referendum carried through. the referendum carried through. This

is different. This is different. This will be a

prospectus and advanced by the Scottish government which they would

then have to negotiate following that with the UK

government. It could be the that if there is a sufficient vote

for yes it would have similar must be negotiations. There

momentum. must be negotiations. There

the final product, either. I will the final product, either. I will

give everyone a last opportunity. If you want to

if you have heard something that has potentially help to make

particular direction of travel, please do so now. Everybody sorted.

you have moved. We are not as you have moved. We

undecided as you were at ten undecided as you were at ten

o'clock! She has moved in the o'clock! She has moved in the

direction of the yes camp. I do not direction of the yes camp. I do not

know if there are any seats left! I just feel, from my comrade over

there, my sister, might seek union and socialist roots will never

matter about whether it is a yes or no campaign. If it is yes and we are

divided in England needs help, the Scottish Unite union will be down

there like a flash to deal with that. It is not the divide like

that, it is more about being brothers and sisters like we are

within the union, I need answers and I need strategic answers from my

Labour government, my Labour Labour government, my Labour

you do not give us answers to you do not give us answers to

anything. There is anything. There is nothing

structured and that worries me. It structured and that worries me. It

worries me a great deal that there is nothing structured from this

site, winners of this side are giving me a structure. Not enough of

a structure. The White Paper has not been released. Professors ——

Professor Curtis, can I ask you about the time it? You have had the

clear that the public out there in clear that

Scotland are very engaged. A poll Scotland are very engaged.

likely to vote. When the same vote in a general

question is asked about the referendum, 70% or more people see

the are certain to vote. People the are certain to vote. People in

Scotland are engaged and are likely to vote. Given that this is the case

it will be unlikely that there will be a deferential time—out, more

people on one side than the other will bother, it looks as though most

people in Scotland will avail people in Scotland will avail

themselves of the chance to have a choice about independence. I would

like to see that after years and years and years of the Scottish, the

very sad Scottish mentality, my very sad Scottish mentality, my mum

and dad voted Labour, my Gran and Glenda voted Labour, I will still

vote Labour, people of Scotland are vote Labour, people of Scotland are

rising up rising up and thinking for

themselves. This is a vote for independence for the future of

Scotland, for your children, your grandchildren and their children.

Let this gentleman responds. I have a 19—year—old student and I would

like to put this out that a lot of like to put this out that a lot of

the arguments from the Yes campaign are over, we are Scottish and

British, but here is a bit of news, you're still from the island of

Great Britain even of Scotland votes yes. This thing, that you're

Scottish more than British, you are Scottish more than British, you are

British regardless. No one should base their argument on that. The

gentleman with the microphone. I am Jim from Glasgow. I am proud, this

girl wanted a motion, I am very proud to be Scottish and British. I

see no reason for this. We have had see no reason for this. We have had

emotional rhetoric over the without any substance. You were talking

about intellect, I have yet to hear anything intellectual from the Yes

campaign. I am not getting at the individually, but in general. I

wrote to Alex Salmond asking him a whole lot of questions, everyone

unanswered. I before anyone mentioned whiskey. I

either campaign will detect the industry and the wants to know how

Scottish whiskey industry and ensure its continued growth globally.

have ten seconds. We have done this have ten seconds. We have done this

as part of the Scottish government. I was in China, and we talked about

this. Food and strength as tourism and renewable energy are other key

industries. This referendum, it industries. This referendum, it will

all be about living standards. Having good quality jobs. That is

about ensuring a living wage is good about ensuring a living wage is good

across the UK across the UK and we end

blacklisting across the UK. At ten o'clock we had 80 —— eight people in

the SNP people in Knowle 60 undecided. At one minute to midday

we have yes, 84, we have no at 83 and undecideds are 53. Clearly not

scientific. Give yourself a huge round of applause.