26/02/2016 BBC Business Live


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This is Business Live from BBC News with Ben Thompson


A mammoth battle between the world's most


valuable company and the US government - Apple acts


to try to stop the FBI hacking into the iPhone.


Live from London, that's our top story.


Apple versus the FBI - the tech giant tries to overturn


a ruling forcing it to help the FBI access the iPhone


But could it spark a new battle between the tech sector


Finance ministers from the G-20 group of top


economies meet in Shanghai as they tackle an expected global slowdown.


The spotlight is firmly fixed on China.


We'll assess another volatile week on the markets.


And we'll get the inside track on Ethical Earnings.


From humble beginnings on England's South coast


But how does Body Shop stay true to its ethical roots when its parent


company is the multi-national cosmetics giant L'Oreal?


Today we want to know: Apple versus FBI, who do you side with?


You know what to do...Just use the hashtag BBCBizLive.


And we're starting with a mammoth tech battle.


Apple has launched legal action to try and overturn a ruling that


says it must help the FBI hack into the iPhone of the


Some big tech firms are lining up to back Apple in its fight.


On February 16th, Apple was ordered to write


a programme to unlock Syed Farook's iPhone to access data.That means


Apple writing software to disable the phone's passcode protection -


You know how it works - if you tap in the wrong code too


many times, you could end up deleting all your data.


Tim Cook, the boss of Apple, the world's


most valuable company, claimed it would create a backdoor


or master key to millions of iPhones, leaving users


criminals and unwarranted surveillance.


Well, it's reported Apple is now looking at ways to re-design


the iPhone to make it un-hackable in the future.


Here's the Head of the FBI and the boss of Apple


I love encryption, I love privacy, when I hear corporations take you


that we will take you to a world where no one can look at your stuff,


part of me think, that great. But then I think law enforcement


really just save people's lives. If we knew a way to get the information


that we haven't already given, if we knew a way to do this that would not


expose hundreds of millions of other people, we would obviously do it.


The only way we know would be to write a piece of software that we


view as the software equivalent of cancer. Not mincing his words. We


have an associate here joining us. I can only imagine the FBI... They


have tech know-how, they tried to get into this phone, they failed,


this is great publicity for Apple, but do they have to be seen doing


what they are doing because of its shareholders? A cynic might say it's


their shareholders but Apple say this is a point of principle about


user privacy. It's about making sure that the only person who can get


into your data is you. It's about setting a precedent that if you


allow it in this case, other tech firms and other people who maybe


have less pure motives will be able to use this software to hack into


phones will stop that's one of the arguments, Apple say that if they


give you this software, there is a possibility it will get into the


hands of others. It could be exploited by parties who don't have


the right to get into your data. I'm just wondering, can the US


authorities actually force Apple to write this code, because if I was, I


would say, we tried, we just can't do it. It means the writing an


entirely new code to be able to allow them, currently they don't


have the software, is that right? It's not that they can't, they are


clear that they can do it, they can create a bespoke service, the reason


they say they can't be made to right it is because they say it will be


compelled speech and speech in America is protected by the first


Amendment. But... I'm still trying to get my head around this. Because


if... Some may say that Apple are getting too big for their boots but


if they broke the code, to get this alleged terrorist information, so to


speak, they just lock the code and block that away, never to be...? But


is that realistic? Wantage realistic, it will be out there.


It's like inventing the nuclear bomb. The FBI say this is a bespoke


one-off piece of code we want to install on one device, but Apple say


it's not the first time they have been asked to crack into an iPhone


and then the FBI will be using it everyday. The whole point of


blackberries, the security and privacy they brought, particularly


in the Middle East, is that a similar row? It is, and it will keep


raging on in the digital age until legislation kicks in to say whether


it is or isn't legal. Just very briefly, I have a tech experts tell


me that if this wasn't such a public story as it is, if it was private,


then Apple probably would do it, do you agree? I would disagree with


that, that's what Edward Snowden was saying, nobody knew about it, but


what Apple has released is a list of 11 previous requests by the FBI


where they have said no. Always a pleasure. Thank you.


The London Stock Exchange says its chief executive -


Xavier Rolet - will step down and retire if the merger


It has given further details of the potential deal -


saying the combined group would would be a UK company -


with headquarters in London and in Frankfurt.


Shares in struggling Japanese electronics giant Sharp have fallen


again, over doubts about a takeover to rescue the firm.


Robin brand is there for us in Shanghai. Front good to see you. I


can only imagine one of the focal points being discussed there is can


bankers do any more but I don't know, some will say that is hard,


because they don't maybe have any ammunition left? Yes, I think the


view is that the armoury has run dry, really. Had a brief exchange


with Dr Mark Carney, the Governor of the Bank of England. Very


tight-lipped but they gather here with the bulk of them, with little


left to do, having said that, probably the most prominent central


banker here, the head of the Chinese central bank did kick off this


meeting with some positive words, really, I think meant to make those


attending the meeting feel more confident in particular about where


China is going, and he said he didn't see or rather hinting he


didn't see any further moves towards the devaluation of China's currency,


and also, looking towards the downturn here, I mean China's


economy growing but the days of double digit growth are over. There


is a slow time, a downturn coming but he hinted, he believes perhaps


the Government can spend their way out of this downturn by borrowing


more. Good stuff. As you you can see Asian


shares closing. A quick look at what is happening in Europe, because all


eyes will be on that G20 meeting in Shanghai. Crucially that issue or


whether there will be extra help to support the second largest which in


the world, which is China. Michelle has details on Wall Street. How did


the US economy go. Look no further nan the revised fourth quarter GDP


numbers out from the commerce department this Friday. The numbers


are expected to show the economy expanded less in gone 15 that was


initially reported. I guess that is what revisions are for. Also out,


this Friday, from the commerce department, consumer spending


numbers which were flat in December, a slight boost in these January


numbers is expected, however. And finally, in the retail sector, which


didn't generally have a strong holiday season, it is expected that


department store chain JC penny will be a bright spot.


Let us stay with the markets. Nick hunger gored is with us.


-- great to see you. Quickly, touching on the G20. The markets are


up there, hoping for a bit of optimism, we are talking about the


central banker, there was so much pressure on them, you think I am


going to reveal this, you think they have some more tools to use.


Absolutely. I was watching that report, quickly scrabbling notes


about what else there is to go. I managed to get to ten things.


Interest rate, balance sheet, overmarket operation, minimum


reserve requirements, asset purchase, shall I keep go something


there is plenty things to do. Let me stress it is not just the


responsibility of the central bankers. Exactly. Mark Carney gave a


speech and said everybody promised in 2004 that they were going to make


structural reforms. All of the Governments in the G20s less than


half of what was promised has happened. If they have got the


options, why are they not using them? They have and they will. We


have discovered some of these option, because of what has happened


since the financial crisis, I mean, it, you know it is very very, very


infrequently that we have talked the about negative interest rates before


the financial crisis. So they are being revealed and happen, now they


are on the table, let us see what they are going to use next. Can, for


people watching round the world here in Britain, investors, how do they,


how, what should they read, let me get this right. What should they


read into the market, the volatility has been phenomenal. It's a mug's


game trying to get the right timing to get in or out? 100%, for


investors there is very little point in trying to turn the market, let me


give you an example. In the ten years to the end of 2015, investing


in the FTSE all share including dividends you would have received


about 11.2% an annum. If you missed the ten best days out of the 3650


days in ten year you would have got 4.7% per annum. Less than half. If


you had missed the 25 best days in those 10 years, you would have had a


negative return of 0. 8%. That is great statistics so stay in... If


you are investing, you are doing it for the long-term. You saw the FTSE


yesterday went up 2.5%. We love those stats. You will take us


through The Papers. Thank you. Still to come. Ethical earnings, the


boss Of body shop tells how it stays true to its ethical roots.


British Airways owner IAG has reported a 64% rise in profits


It's been helped by a more than 17% fall in fuel costs.


IAG is the parent company of Iberia, Vueling and Aer Lingus


Boss Willie Walsh described the numbers as "very


The price of oil has been falling steadily over the past year -


so has this drop fed through to IAG's figures yet?


Normally buy out as far as three years inned a vans. In 2015 we were,


if you like, using fuel we bought in 2013, so we saw some benefit but a


lot of the benefit was off set by the strengthening dollar, about 60%


of the benefit you would have expected was off set because the


dollar was stronger against the euro and the pound and we will see some


continuing benefit in 2016, because the hedges we put in place are


unwinding and therefore we will get additional benefit from the current


lower spot price. We don't price our tickets solely based on the price of


oil, fuel represents about 30% of our cost base, 70% of our coast base


is managed in another way, the market is very competitive, we will


continue to be competitive, and prices have been dropping, if you go


back to 2012, when the price of oil peaked since IAG was created, we


have seen average fares fall. There has been an impact in the reduction


in the oil price which has already been felt and passed on to


consumers. Royal Bank of Scotland has


made its eighth annual loss in a row, after recently setting


aside billions for expected fines The group, which is mostly


owned by the taxpayer, posted a loss of almost ?2 billion,


although this is down from the ?3.5 billion loss it


reported a year earlier. Business owner warning of an


information deaf it is ahead of the EU referendum that is the story in


the Telegraph. Small businesses saying they don't have enough


information to make a good decision about in or out when it comes to the


debate over the UK's continued membership of the EU. They are


calling for more information, more clarity on what would happen if the


UK does decide to leave the EU. Our top story -


Apple versus the FBI. The tech giant tries to overturn


a ruling that would force it to help the FBI hack into the iPhone


of the San Bernadino gunman - Could this turn into the mother


of all battles with America's mighty Tech sector pitched


against the US government? Arity on what would happen if the UK


does decide to leave the EU. More on that, we will get more


details of that at the start of next week. We will have full coverage


here on business live. Do we have time for a couple of tweets. Apple


100% in the right. It's a slippery slope into mass sun rablts. I have


time for a couple of tweets. Apple 100% in the right. It's a slippery


slope into mass sun rablts. I haven't got them open. "I am team


apple. Security is the key on an iPhone. The back door will violate


one's privacy." Thank you. Keep your comments coming in.


These days, ethical business is big business, but that's much easier


How do you stay true to your founding principles


when you become part of a giant corporate machine?


Well, one company that knows all too well is the Body Shop.


From its humble beginnings as a single shop on England's South


coast, it's now part of the cosmetics giant L'Oreal -


but still prides itself on its ethical credentials.


It's chief executive is Jeremy Schwartz, but the firm


was founded by the late Dame Anita Roddick who opened her


40 years later, it's a globally recognised consumer brand with over


And it may surprise many fans that it was swallowed up


by the multinational beauty empire of L'Oreal ten years ago.


So can the Body Shop still claim to be an ethical retailer?


The BBC's Maryam Moshiri put this question to boss Jeremy Schwartz.


Well the fact you may not be so familiar with is we are in 65


countries round the world. I believe we are the retailer, that is in more


countries than any other retailers an we have 65 million people coming


in our stores every year, so I think we are very relevant to many people


round the world and the way we do that is by having exceptional


products made from natural ingredients that are not tested on


animals and 100% vegetarian, they respect people's skin. There are so


many different companies that do ethical products and ethical retail,


how do you differentiate yourselves from a market that is now pretty


saturated compared to when Body Shop started? When you are an innovator


and pioneer you are recognised as being the first, so people know that


we were more natural, we are the first company to bring ethical


sustainable products across many category, we have skin care and


body, we have make up which many other companies don't have, the way


we stay ahead is by going round the world and finding ingredients, and


ways that women in different countries use products. In Korea,


the average Korean spends 30 minutes every morn and using seven different


products to care for her skin, we have just launched some products


from Korea, worldwide, so that is exciting and surprising for women.


When I used to go Body Shop it was attractive because of the ethical


ethos, then I know that some people when it was taken over by L'Oreal


were disappointed because a big company, a small company, how do


they work out together? They shouldn't have been disappointed


because L'Oreal was very excited to not only support but completely


embrace all the ethics of the Body Shop and they have done that, and


they have kept, as I am the leader of it, the Body Shop autonomous in


what we do. We have benefitted from all that L'Oreal can bring, which is


the ability to use our community Fairtrade ingredients but we have


kept absolutely the spirit we have already had.


I have done a straw poll among some of my friends who are a similar age,


they say that they feel that the brand Body Shop has lost its way a


bit. How do you find that path again, do you think? We have


launched a commitment called enrich not exploit. It's a mission for the


company, the way we are going to ensure that we are the most ethical,


and sustainable company in the world. We know that the women that


you are talking about are very connected to the global situation,


they are very digitally Saivet, they are concerned about the planet. This


is a way we are going to connect to women like you are describing, to


show that they can buy products that are good for them but do good for


the planet as well. We are launching products, and I may tell you one


called Spa. It sourced from all round the worldle. We have a flower


from Japan, I can assure you, that there is not one you don't know who


wouldn't feel very proud tow have this product in her bathroom and


have her friends see her, that she has got it and know they will say,


wow I wish I could o have that too. I would like to invite you into our


stores because I think you will be surprised. So you are making plastic


packaging out of pollution. That is interesting, how does it work?


Imagine cows, or imagine if you would breathing out for a second,


you breathe out CO2 and cows emit methane. We have a way of capturing


that, we are giving it to insome times and they proeating it and


turning it into plastic, we are turning that not just into bags but


more into actual packaging, we will be launching packaging that is made


from air. We are calling it air carbon. It's a revolution. The chief


executive of Body Shop speaking to Maryam. So yes, interesting stuff


there, there is a make up theme to the programme today. How do you keep


your ethical roots? Is a make up theme to the programme today. How do


you keep your ethical roots? One more tweet. "Privacy over human


life. That is sick corporate world caring only about stock prices."


Between the battle between the FBI and apping. I can't get this thing


to work, so you can't put it on the screen. Pfizer, giving up just


citizenship it could save them money in taxes. Everybody thought the


reason Pfizer had bought this Irish company to merge and move its


headquarters from the US to Ireland was so it could reduce its corporate


tax rate from the 35% charged in America, which is one of the highest


in the world, to the 17-18% in Ireland. But what people hadn't


realised was there was going to be the opportunity to bring in from


overseas about $150 billion worth of profit Pfizer made, into Ireland and


benefit from lower tax, because they couldn't have brought that money


into the States and had it with the tax.


Car, because there is a story here in the Huffington Post, half of new


cars could be electric by 200040. We know that they are booming in


popularity but half of all new cars to be electric? That puts huge


pressure on infrastructure. That is one of the reasons why that may


never come to be the case. It is only 1% of cars sold at the moment


that are electric, we have some want I to go. Can you imagine changing


the petrol and gas stations to electric plugs. The fact the oil


price is so low is motivating people and car companies to build gas


guzzlers as they are called. So all round the world we are seeing a drop


off in electric gases because gas cars are getting cheaper. Batteries


have to be made better. People are worried about running out of


batteries on their way. Lots of way to go but maybe possible by 2014. A


-- 200040. Have a great weekend. We will be


back same time, same place on Monday.


Compared with last couple of day, we have got a lot more cloud in the sky


across the UK, but for most of us the weather will stay dry. The cloud


is courtesy of an area of low pressure that continues to form to


the south-west of the UK, and this brings some uncertainty, as


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