15/02/2017 BBC Business Live


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Live from London, that's our top story on Wednesday, 15th February.


The people of Greece take to the streets


The country's economy is shrinking, but its creditors


Also in the programme - up, up and away, as India breaks


a world record and shoots 104 satellites in one go into space.


We're going to look at how that country is becoming a serious


It was another record setting day on Wall Street.


Also in the programme, finding a diamond in the rough!


We'll meet the woman whose company is turning waste into energy.


Lloyds of London is banning drinking during work hours.


Today we want to know, is the liquid lunch a thing of the past?


Is it ever acceptable to drink during the working day?


The EU's top economist, Pierre Moscovici, is visiting


Greece today to talk about the country's debt problem.


He's trying to break the deadlock over the release


Athens and its international creditors have been wrangling


for months over the issue, and failure to reach agreement has


Yesterday it was revealed that the Greek


economy unexpectedly shrank in the last three months of 2016.


So what options does the country have?


Greece is now under increased pressure to step up its economic


reforms, including on painful things like cutting pension


Meanwhile, the International Monetary Fund says Greece needs more


money, give it more cash in order to get its economy back on track.


But that's not going down well with the Eurozone,


which says it's already written off enough Greek debt.


The Greek government faces debt repayments


And they can't afford those payments unless they meet the conditions


being asked by the lenders and in return, the lenders


will agree to release more money from the country's


Vicky Pryce, economist at the Centre for Economics


It is not Aaron's fault, but he has been reciting the same story as we


all have time and time again. Here we are yet again, Greece having


problems paying its debts. What is to be done and why are we still


here? There have been issues in the way Greece has been implementing the


reforms. What's been going on, there has been an agreed third bail out.


The IMF decided it wasn't going to take part in it until it satisfied


itself that Greece were doing the right things and that the debt was


sustainable. And there has been review after review, we're in the


second review for the third bail out. This review has not been


concluded because nobody is convinced that Greece is really


doing the right things and this review should have been completed


months ago and there is a crucial meeting on 20th February which needs


to decide what happens with Greece next? It isn't the case of a new


bail out, it is really having the extra bit of the bail out that was


meant to be coming a few months ago really which hasn't been forthcoming


yet. We have sat here over the years, right and spoken about this.


Before Brexit came along, we used to talk about Grexit. That was the word


on the street and people used to go, "Europe will never let another go


leave the Union." Now Brexit is happening, I'm wondering is there a


mindset in Europe which makes it easier to go, "It's OK if Greece


does leave." I think it is the opposite. Given that there is going


to be Brexit under some conditions which, of course, still have to be


agreed the last thing that Europe needs now is to have further


disintegration. There it is facing Trump who has been pretty critical


of what the EU does and to see a country like Greece leave and the


whole Europe project therefore being put into question will be pretty,


pretty hard. Sorry Ben, Europe could be a different political landscape.


We have election ins France, the Netherlands and Germany and you


could get people in power that won't have the appetite to give anymore


money to Greece? That's true, of course, it isn't anymore. It is the


bail out that was agreed before. That's what we're talking about, but


yes, of course, we have the elections in the Netherlands in


March. It is one of the reasons why everyone is trying to get agreement


before the elections. So perhaps we get something by mid- March, there


will be something on 20th February which says yes, we have a way


what we will see after that, we have what we will see after that, we


the elections and indeed they have the elections and indeed they have


the French and the Germans, if there is any serious unsettling sort of


movement in Europe, that is going to in many ways help the populist


parties which the current players don't really want to see. I think


they will try hard to get a compromise. We were talking about


whether Greece would leave the European Union. If not quite leaving


the European Union, do you think we could foresee bli see Greece leaving


the single currency? When you look at opinion polls which used to be


very, very positive in relation to the euro and Europe in Greece, they


have swung a little bit. Now, you get some polls which suggest the


majority of Greeks want to get out of it because of the pain it has


caused them over a number of years. I think there may well be a


possibility of a snap election coming after this agreement is


settled and I think the euro, or being part of Europe, may well play


a part in whatever it is that particularly the Syriza party the


one in power, maybe going to the electorate with. So we may well see


some of that, but overall the Greeks will be conservative. They feel they


should be attached to Europe. They are concerned about developments in


Russia and everywhere and of course, so does the rest of Europe in fact.


Thank you. Shares in Toshiba tumbled


further during trade The firm's chairman resigned


on Tuesday, after the company announced a $3.4 billion net loss


for the year. The company had announced it


expected to take a $6.3 billion writedown at its troubled


US nuclear business. Dutch brewer Heineken has reported


a rise in its organic net profit, The world's second biggest brewer


expects to see further revenue growth this year,


but warns economic conditions Facebook is launching an app that


will allow users to stream videos in their news feed through set-top


boxes to their TV. The move could allow it


to eventually better compete with the likes of YouTube


and traditional television channels India has entered the history books


by successfully launching 104 satellites on a single mission,


smashing the previous record of 37 satellites


launched by Russia in 2014. An incredible accomplishment for


India, but it is really highlighting that country's presence, I guess,


right in this space race? That's right. I mean there is a lot of


Indians feeling very proud today, Aaron, but it is not just about


pride. This is about money as well. About six months ago I was at the


Indian Space Agency headquarters in Bangalore. At that time they


launched 49 foreign satellites into space and earned $120 million doing


so. Today the number has gone up by 101, 101 satellites were on that


rocket. It puts India on a firm footing in the global market as far


as launch vehicles for satellites are concerned and there is huge


demand for it because companies today want to not just launch one


satellites or two satellites into space, but 20, 50, 100 satellites.


Astonishing stuff. Thank you for that. We'll talk to you soon.


Let's take a look at the Asian markets.


All helped by another wow on the Dow! Another record session on Wall


Street. Wall Street was boosted by the big boss of America's Central


Bank, Janet Yellen who spoke yesterday, when she speaks, markets


stop! And we listen. Everybody listens to every word that comes out


of her mouth. Yesterday she kind of flagged a possible interest rate


rise next month which kept the US dollar near three week highs. Let's


look at the European markets because the market watchers were expecting


the same enthusiasm to continue in our trading session over here and


that's exactly what is happening right now. Ben.


Joining us is Richard Lewis, Head of Global Equities


Aaron was mentioning the testimony from Janet Yellen to Congress. The


markets seeming to like what she had to say? Yes, this is one of the semi


annual testimonies. It is a well watched event and Mrs Yellen is


carefully managing market expectation and here we saw another


change in nuance from Mrs Yellen hinting at further rate rises to


come, interest rate rises to come this year, but nothing really that


the market wasn't expecting. So what she has done with these comments is


really confirm the markets, say to the markets, you're about right with


your expectations of where you are. And European markets responding to


what we were talking about with Greece as well? Yes. Well, I think,


the most powerful influence for the European markets is what Mrs Yellen


says. There is a secondary story with Greece which is once again, you


know, this dilemma that the EU has with the Greek bail out and it is


where we were two years ago and I don't suppose that much will happen


this side of the German elections of any note, but what all this


stalemate does do is it ensures that Mr Draghi, the chairman of the ECB


will keep interest rates at negative rates and he will keep pumping QE


and that's the most important message for European financial


markets. In a very bizarre sense, the Greek dilemma, which is a Greek


tragedy for the Greek people, but the Greek dilemma is proving


remarkably positive for the European financial assets because of the


effect on the ECB. You mentioned Draghi, we mentioned Janet Yellen.


Never before, I'm asking you this as a question, have we seen where the


markets are so focussed on central banks? Yes. Yes! It is the only game


in town. It has been since the great financial crisis. Exactly. The


central banks have intervened very heavily in financial markets for six


years and the financial markets are now completely dependant on that


intervention. OK. You will come back and take us through some of the


papers. All right, we'll talk to you very soon, thank you, Richard.


Still to come, turning rubbish into a resource.


We'll hear from the woman whose company makes energy from waste.


You're with Business Live from BBC News.


Sick pay and sickness benefits is costing state and businesses


around ?23 billion per year, according to a new


They are calling for a more flexible Fit Pay to be introduced


which they say would be suitable for modern times.


Joe Dromey is senior research fellow at the IPPR.


Did you say Fit Pay? What is that? Fit Pay is a new benefit we are


recommending which would help keep more people in touch with work when


they developed a health or mental health condition. The government has


been trying to reduce the number of people on sickness related benefits


for many years and they have failed. We argue this is because too many


people who developed a hell for mental health condition just fall


out of work and end up on benefits. We are talking for more support from


the state and employers to keep people well in work and to keep


people in touch with work and Fit Pay is one of the ways we think this


can be done. If a company like the idea you have suggested and they


want to implement it, how easy is it? When systems are in place, it


can be a real headache trying to change to something different. We


believe it would be relatively easy to implement so if an employee


develops a hell for mental health condition and the GB agrees it is


best for them to reduce their hours, -- a health or mental health


condition. They can reduce their hours with the agreement of their


employer and Fit Pay would ease the loss of earnings and also if an


individual has fallen out of work completely but wants to return on a


part-time basis then Fit Pay, this flexible sick pay, if you will, will


help support them back into work and make sure that their income is


always better off in work. We hope that it would be better for


employees and employers, who spent ?9 billion per year on sick pay at


the moment, and better for the public finances. Thank you for


joining us. We are trying to... You know what?


You aren't. The person who sits down is the person who has to deal with a


tablet. I've just fixed it for you. We should talk about Lloyd's


stopping the boozy lunch. We will talk about that later. But I wanted


your opinion. Is on the Business Live page, even if we can't show you


right now! Our top story - the EU's top


economist, Pierre Moscovici, is visiting Greece today to talk


about the country's debt problem. Yesterday, it was revealed


that the Greek economy unexpectedly shrank in the last three months


of 2016, but the country is facing increased pressure to step


up its economic reforms, including painful things


like cutting pension But they are not doing it. They


promised to do it for some time but they haven't.


Turning waste into energy might seem like the ultimate efficiency.


What could be greater than using the stuff we throw


But it's not always as easy as that, with waste often having to be


transported great distances before it can be processed


Well, our next guest thinks she's cracked that conundrum.


Sandra Sassow has created two patented products,


They use technology which converts food and animal waste


And the company has just struck a near ?1 billion deal in India -


Sandra Sassow is the co-founder and CEO of SEaB Energy.


Great to have you with us. It is like the three stooge... No, not


three! We will be more polite from here on in. I've got to ask because


you worked on the Hubble telescope navigation systems and now you are


doing this. Can you tell us how, for dummies, like me, how it works? It


is almost the same as the Hubble space telescope, going out into the


distance, taking waste that is local and converting it. It is a bacterial


process. The bacteria it the waste in the shipping containers. Then it


produces biogas which is then converted in an engine to


electricity and we capture the water from the waist so if you have food


waste, which is 80% water, you can take the 80% that you are


recapturing and turn it into a water resource for the site as well. Who


is buying into the idea? Do you have any big customers who have said they


liked the sound of it and they are going to install it? Absolutely, we


started selling the production version of the product last year and


we have closed sales in four countries. We have the NHS in


Southampton, that has taken one, to take the waste from the site and


produce electricity for the hospital, saving them money, giving


them more money to do other things related to health care. We have a


large corporate in Manhattan that has retrofitted one, or is


retrofitting one, into one of their existing iconic buildings in the


city so a Fortune 50. We have got a client in Portugal. Is it expensive


to get started, though? It's not, it to get started, though? It's not, it


is a plug and play system, it arrives ready to go. What would it


cost me if I wanted one? It depends where but it will give you a three


to five year payback, so the systems range from ?140,000, up to ?400,000,


depending on the size of the system, amount of waste you are going to be


converting into electricity. How much space does it take up?


It is a shipping container? And you just put it in? So you don't need


planning permission? Some places, you do and some you don't. Some


places require extra permits. It depends on where you are in the


world and what the regulations are. Is this the kind of technology that


over time you can shrink so we could put it... It's a bit hard to have a


shipping container next to the house. Although it depends how big


it is. We have shrunk it, if you think about it because right now,


waste is converted in big centralised facilities that tend to


be outside the urban environment so you are trucking waste to those


sites. We have shrunk it into something that can fit in an urban


environment and can be placed into the megacities that are expanding


around the world. We have taken it down into 20 foot shipping


containers. If you take that and shrink it down, we are trying, we


will go smaller when we can but technology and supply chain is


keeping us where we are. It is quite different from where you started


working on the Hubble space telescope. How did you make the


transition? Do you miss the Hubble work? It is all tech and there is as


much tech in this as there was and what I did there but just applied


differently. You must get a different reaction from people when


you say I worked with people on the Hubble space telescope and now I


work with waste. We got an award from Nasa, choosing us as one of the


nine tech firms in the world that was doing something advanced in the


waste sector and they took a view that that was advancing where the


world was going. They are looking at what we're doing as they closed loop


environment for long haul space flight. Who knows? I might go back


to space work in the future. Thank you for joining us. Great stuff.


Thank you for coming on. In a moment, we'll take a look


through the Business Pages, but first here's a quick reminder


of how to get in touch with us. The Business Live page


is where you can stay ahead of all the day's


breaking business use. We will keep you up-to-date


with all the latest details, with insight and analysis


from the BBC's team of editors Get involved on the BBC


Business Live web page, bbc.com/business, on Twitter


@BBCBusiness and you can find us Business Live on TV and online,


whenever you need to know. Joining us is Richard Lewis,


Head of Global Equities He has come back into the studio to


talk through some of the stories in the papers and there is one that has


got people talking a lot on Twitter about Lloyds of London banning...


Come on, when did you last have a boozy lunch? A long time ago because


I thought this thing had gone from the City under competitive pressures


but obviously there are still one or two areas where people still have a


drink at lunch time. We have got a feud tweets and thank you very much


for them, Erica says, "Can't understand why people feel the need


to drink during the working day". Erica does not work for the BBC!


Anthony says, "I thought those days had long gone", as you say. Alex


says, "If it is one during unpaid lunch break, I don't see a problem".


"Every Time I have a couple of Jack Daniels, I start singing show tunes


which is not good for the office". Let's move on... The satellite


launch in India. A phenomenal achievement, I'm sure launching 104


satellites is pretty difficult but I think what it shows is for somewhere


like India, a developing market like India does not go through the


industrialisation faith that the Western world did because these


countries can see the destination. They don't have to go through the


process, they jump from being quite underdeveloped to being right at the


forefront of technology in some cases and that is what this is all


about. Interesting point because we have been covering this all morning


and we have seen lots of tweets and so forth and questions have been


raised, some people have said, hang on, India has launched this amazing


rocket and has this programme and yet something like 150 million


Indians still don't have a Paul Allott. Yes, and probably 100


million Indians with engineering degrees. -- 150 million Indians


still don't have a toilet. But there's a lot of talented people in


India. Goldman Sachs shares shattering a 10-year record hitting


a new closing high. Is there any stopping the Trump trade rally? This


is a Trump trade squared, right? There's been a couple of personnel


moves that the market picks up on which looked very favourable to


Goldman Sachs. The first is that the presence of Gary Cowan, the former


president of Goldman Sachs, is Donald Trump's right-hand man when


it comes to advising on industry and financial regulation. The second


yesterday was the resignation of a very respected man called down to


Rouleau from the Federal Reserve who was a bit of a regulatory Hawks at


the confluence of those moves suggest to the market that the


regulation will go in Goldman Sachs' favour. And the man who was


confirmed, or 17 years at Goldman Sachs. It is a very well-connected


firm! Especially now! Thank you for joining us.


There will be more business news throughout the day on the BBC Live


webpage and on World Business Report.


Hello. Feeling very pleasant way you have the sunshine once again but


there will be a bit more cloud around than yesterday and


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