Lakhdar Brahimi - UN Special Representative for Syria BBC News Special


Lakhdar Brahimi - UN Special Representative for Syria

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This is BBC News. A summary of the news now. Details of David

:00:13.:00:15.

Cameron's first re-reshuffle since becoming prime minister have

:00:15.:00:18.

started to emerge. Andrew Mitchell, the International Development

:00:18.:00:21.

Secretary, will be moved to Government Chief Whip. Meanwhile,

:00:21.:00:24.

Liberal Democrat MP David Laws, the former Chief Secretary to the

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Treasury, is expected to return to a senior Government position.

:00:32.:00:35.

It has been another successful day for British athletes at the

:00:35.:00:38.

Paralympic Games. The British swimmer Ellie Simmonds won her

:00:38.:00:42.

second gold medal of the games in the final of the 200 metre

:00:42.:00:45.

individual medley. Nine police officers have been

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injured after rioting in Belfast for the second night running. Three

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of the officers have been taken to hospital. Tonight's disorder

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follows violence yesterday when a Republican parade resulted in

:00:56.:01:01.

nearly 50 officers being injured. Michael Gove says planned changes

:01:01.:01:04.

to the GCSE examination will prevent a repeat of the marking

:01:04.:01:10.

controversy which have affected this summer's English papers. The

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Education Secretary says the new exam, which could be phased in from

:01:13.:01:23.
:01:23.:01:26.

2015, would have the academic rigour of the old O-level.

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It has been another day of violence in Syria. Opposition activists

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claim more than 30 people have been killed in a government airstrike on

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a town north of Aleppo. And in Damascus, a bomb has killed at

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least five people and wounded many more. Meanwhile, the new

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international envoy to Syria, Lakhdar Brahimi, has been

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discussing his role with the BBC's Welcome. It is nearly 18 months

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into the uprising in Syria. Here in New York, there is the division

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over what to do next. This week, a new envoy takes over from where

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Kofi Annan takes off, trying to bring peace to a country that many

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say is in the midst of a view -- brutal civil war. How can a veteran

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Algerian diplomat, one of the UN's most experienced troubleshooters,

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succeed where his predators have failed? Welcome. His it Mission

:02:45.:02:55.
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impossible? I suppose it is, if Kofi Annan says so. It is

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definitely a very, very difficult issue. Kofi Annan has done

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everything possible. I was in touch with him all the time. We discussed

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this several times. I can't think of anything that I would have done

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differently from him. So he ran into a brick wall? Exactly. That is

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what everybody is saying. I am standing in front of that wall, I

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will see Kofi again a couple of days. I suppose we will have a look.

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Some people have said there are some cracks in that wall. We will

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see if those cracks exist. If they don't, we will have to see if we

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can go round the wall. There is no other choice. Whether we can work

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out something, something out of those cracks that are in the wall,

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whether we can around it, I don't know. Some say that you would not

:04:00.:04:10.
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have risked your reputation unless you saw some hope somewhere. No, no.

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What is the crack you see? I don't see any cracks. Somebody else said

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there may be cracks. We're trying to find them. You don't see any

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yourself? I don't see any myself yet. We are examining the wall to

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see if there are any cracks to work on. 78 years old - coming into this,

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I am coming into it with my eyes open. With no illusions that it is

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going to be easy. But then, have you heard of a mission that the

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United Nations has undertaken which has been easy? So, you know, it is

:04:48.:04:58.
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my duty. My duty to try, and that is what I will do. And yet, in

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public, you told the UN Secretary General that you were honoured, but

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also scared. What are you scared of? I am scared of the weight of

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the responsibility. People are already saying that people are

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dying - what are you doing to help? Indeed, we are not doing much. That

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in itself is a terrible weight. I realise the importance and the

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difficulty of the responsibility. This is, I think, what they expect.

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The importance of succeeding, if it is possible? Absolutely, it should

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be possible. But you see this is also an appeal to everybody inside

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Syria and outside Syria to say - this is not the number of people

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that are getting killed every day only. As bad as that is, it is much

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more than that. What's going to happen to Syria next year if we

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don't find some kind of solution - the beginning of a solution right

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now? What is going to happen around Syria? Lebanon, Jordan, Turkey,

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Iraq, and further afield. This is what we are doing. This is what

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Kofi Annan said in his resignation statement. This is what we're

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continuing to say every day. have come to New York, you have now

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talked to or met every member of the Security Council. The divided

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Security Council that Kofi Annan cited as the main reasons for his

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failure. Did you see a glimmer of hope? Not yet. We are in touch with

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them. We are continuing to talk to them. They have all expressed

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welcome, support, thanks for accepting the difficult mission,

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which is great. That individual support they have expressed will

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have to translate into a collective support. But it is paralysed. Some

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have even gone so far as to say that it is almost a new Cold War.

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You have Russia and China backing President Assad. You have Western

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and Arab states backing the opposition. Sure. Yeah. Do you see

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it as a new Cold War? I don't know if it is a new Cold War, but it is

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bad. It is a worry for us. There is no vitality that will remain like

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that, next week, next month, after that. The General Assembly is

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coming, everyone will be here. Everybody is talking, you know, I

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have seen statements by the Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov. A

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lot of people have talked to me directly, the Russian Foreign

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Minister, the Chinese Foreign Minister. Quite a few other people.

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We will be trying to see how they can work together. Did any of them

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say to you, "We are really sorry that Kofi Annan had to resign

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because of us and we will try harder?" In those terms, no. No.

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But it is there. Because Kofi Annan denounced finger-pointing. But he

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pointed quite a few fingers himself. I think they are aware of that.

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Nobody said it isn't true. You have already made it clear - a veiled

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threat - you said, "If I don't have support, I don't have a job."

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say that? Yes. Well, you know, this is literally true. It's not the

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first time that I have told the Security Council, "You asked me to

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do something and then you don't give me any support." The last time

:09:15.:09:25.
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was in Afghanistan in 1999. There was no Cold War behaviour then.

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do see it as Cold War behaviour? That is what you say. There was no

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Cold War behaviour then, and yet there was no support for me. I

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politely said, you know, in these conditions, there is no work for me.

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When you call for fundamental and urgent change, what does that mean

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for you? I think it is clear in every single

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country, the people in the Arab world are asking for change. Some

:10:05.:10:15.
:10:15.:10:16.

are asking for a regime change, some use other slogans. But the

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need for change is real. In February last year, 2011, I said

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something like "Change is needed, change is unavoidable." Governments

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can lead that change in their respective countries, but if they

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don't, they will be its victim. I stand by that. By those statements.

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Bashar al-Assad has had 18 months, almost. Is that enough time to show

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whether he is willing to lead the change? A lot of Syrians have

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decided that it shows he hasn't. You know, I still need to talk to a

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lot more people to make up my mind about which direction things will

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go. I am a man of peace. A mediator. I am optimistic - I have to be

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optimistic, even in the face of extreme difficulty. Again, I am not

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going to pass judgement - or at least, not yet. You said that you

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agree with almost everything Kofi Annan did or said. In his parting

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advice he said, "It is clear President Bashar al-Assad must

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leave office." Do you agree? Again, I'm not going to comment. I stand

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by what I said about Kofi. He is a friend and I have been very close

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to him throughout the time he has been working. That is what I meant

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- don't take it literally that I approve of every single word he has

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said. It has been noted that in your other difficult negotiations

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you seem to have chosen the no victor, no vanquished approach,

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which means kind of power-sharing. Do you see this in a situation like

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Syria where President Assad is facing opposition but still retains

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some support? Again, if you talk about my approach - my approach is

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that in every situation there is a common ground. Even if the people

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:12:40.:12:41.

involved in the conflict don't see it to begin with. What the mediator

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tries to make them aware of that common ground and to investigate

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how they can extend that ground. Who will, at the end of the process,

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hold what share of power is, of course - will be the result of the

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negotiations and the discussions, the debate. This is really for the

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people of the country to decide. I think you are aware of my great

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insistence on the fact that people from outside can help a process,

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but the decisions, the ownership of the process has to be in the hands

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:13:30.:13:34.

of the people. This is not just the manner of speaking with me. I

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believe that 100%. You know, it will be the Syrian people, once

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they realise, as I hope they will, that every conflict has to end up

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in a negotiation. The earlier they realise that, the better. When they

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do that, then it is up to them to decide who will hold what part of

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the power. If I have understood you correctly - at this point you don't

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want to say publicly whether you believe or not that President Assad

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should step down, but you believe he should be part of a transition?

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I'm not making any similar statements of who is where and so

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on. I will go back to my statement from February 2011. Change is

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indispensable, change is unavoidable, it cannot be cosmetic

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:14:40.:14:42.

and governments have to accept it otherwise they will have problems.

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In effect, you are being very diplomatic, you are saying it in

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other words. The definition of fundamental - and you yourself may

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have been one of the first people to say there will be a revolution -

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that means, by definition, there will have to be a new order, a new

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leader. You know, there will be a new order. Who the people will be

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in that new order, I don't know. If they can adapt and accept the new

:15:08.:15:18.
:15:18.:15:19.

order, genuinely, you know, maybe the people will accept that.

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don't know - that is not for me to say now. So does it worry you that

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your reticence to make a statement has angered the opposition even

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before you took the job? I met them and I told them - please, please

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remember I am not working only for you. I am working for two

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situations - I am a diplomat, I am a mediator, a negotiator. I don't

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speak the same language as you. I met them, and I hope that that has

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In a conflict like this, a very brutal conflict - is it the

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government's side that has to take the first step because they are in

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power? This is what Kofi Annan ended up by saying. He said that

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the government has the main responsibility. They have the big

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guns, they have the army, I don't know how big the Syrian army is -

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hundreds of thousands. Much more important than that - every

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government is responsible for the security of its own people. So, you

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know, I am sure they will not object if you ask them to have more

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responsibility than any other group in the country. This the view of

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the government of Syria. Kofi Annan called them intransigent. Yes. Is

:16:59.:17:07.

your first task a ceasefire? That would be great. Is it possible?

:17:07.:17:17.
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Kofi Annan didn't succeed with that. All parties started by saying yes.

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I hope that they are now more aware of all of the damage that a

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continuation of fighting would inflict. I certainly will be

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discussing this with them. President Assad said he needs more

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time, he talks about crushing the opposition. The opposition has

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repeatedly said it will not talk to President Assad. There are so many

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different groups. It is difficult to know who to talk to. It is not

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uncommon in these situations. We will talk to all of those who are

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ready to talk to us and are representative. They say they did

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not want to talk to one another. If they did, they would not need me. I

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hope that they will be talking to me. That will lead us to them

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talking to one another. We need to take a different approach than Kofi

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Annan did. His peace plan failed. The ceasefire never held. You have

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changed the name of your job. You've asked for a different

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mandate. How do you want to do things differently? I don't know.

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Kofi said in his press conference about the plan, he said those six

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points, I'm not taking them with me, they will stay on the table. What I

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am saying is that now we have a tool box in which we put all of the

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instruments. Why put tools in the box when that have not worked? Many

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observers have said that the plan is dead. It has not succeeded.

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is not true. Kofi Annan is gone. He says the plan stays behind. We'll

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not use it in exactly same manner as it was used. Kofi found that it

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was not right. It is good to have it. We will see what we can make of

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it. You have said it is urgent. Every day more people are dying. In

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your experience as a negotiator, do you not have a plan? You have been

:20:15.:20:18.

meeting opposition leaders for more than one year in Paris. You have

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been talking to Kofi Annan through the six months. You must have

:20:21.:20:27.

formed some ideas. I have a few ideas but I do not have a plan.

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do not want to pretend that I have things that do not exist. Talking

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to a few people when you're just an observer, it is not at all the same

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thing as talking to people when you have such a responsibility. The

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argument that people are dying is absolutely true. Yes. People are

:20:53.:21:02.

dying. Some people even say you were responsible for the deaths

:21:02.:21:12.
:21:12.:21:19.

because you have not managed from day one. I wish it were possible by

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announcing to stop the fighting... It does not work that way. Syria is

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a civil war. You have already called it that, a sectarian war, a

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proxy war, a new Cold War. It is an awful lot for one person to fix.

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is extremely difficult to fix. A situation like this is not static.

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:21:49.:21:55.

It is never static. If it does not improve it gets worse. Everyone

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says they want... All the regional players want peace. They are all

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involved in perpetuating the war. The government in Damascus says the

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rebels have been armed by Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Turkey. They will

:22:13.:22:16.

not lay down their arms until those channels are closed. The opposition

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says that Russia and Iran are arming President Assad. That seems

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:22:30.:22:47.

to be the trend. No situation is static. The trend is for greater

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:22:57.:22:59.

militarisation. The UN would call on all of those who were arming

:22:59.:23:02.

parties to stop doing so. As mediators you can only repeat this.

:23:02.:23:06.

People are angry with Kofi Annan. The government say it is our right,

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we have the monopoly on the use of force. The opposition says they are

:23:10.:23:13.

being massacred. How can we tell them to accept the slaughter. I

:23:13.:23:23.
:23:23.:23:26.

understand that position. When they accept a political solution it is

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much better than this fight... It is an existential battle. Kill or

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be killed is the driving force. It is not true. It is not about

:23:40.:23:50.
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killing. I have been going on for Syria for 50 years. More.

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incredible existence. What people call a mosaic of communities was

:24:03.:24:05.

incredibly harmonious. People have multiple identities. They took

:24:06.:24:09.

their Syrian identity first. I refuse to believe that they are

:24:09.:24:13.

going to forget that. I refuse to believe that they would go back to

:24:13.:24:23.
:24:23.:24:37.

narrow identities. As you start this, whether it is mission

:24:37.:24:40.

impossible, or your toughest assignment yet, let us finish with,

:24:40.:24:44.

there must have been something that you saw that you could do to turn

:24:44.:24:53.

this around. What is it that made you decide to take on the job?

:24:53.:24:57.

made me decide to take on the job is, perhaps a little bit of vanity.

:24:57.:25:06.

Perhaps an excessive sense of duty. I knew perfectly well that the

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United Nations cannot stay away from a problem like this. If they

:25:09.:25:14.

asked me to help, who am I to say no? That is what has led me here.

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Once again, I know how difficult it is. I know how nearly impossible it

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is. I am not here to try and win another battle for myself. That is

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totally unimportant. What is important is the victory that the

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Syrian people need to win. If I can help a little bit and I think it is

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worth the risks. Thank you. Thank worth the risks. Thank you. Thank

:26:14.:26:24.
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you very much. September arrives, you get a

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glorious day like she did on Monday. 25 degrees in Aberdeen. It was not

:26:36.:26:41.

all plain sailing. This deep area of low pressure strengthened the

:26:41.:26:49.

winds in northern Scotland. This is what it looks like to begin the day

:26:49.:26:54.

today. Cloudy and damp weather. Sunshine in the south-east.

:26:54.:27:04.
:27:04.:27:08.

Northern Scotland, strong winds, 60mph. Possibly stronger than that

:27:08.:27:18.
:27:18.:27:20.

in the Northern Isles. Behind it, sunshine but it will feel fresher.

:27:20.:27:28.

At 4pm, north and west of Wales, sunnier skies. Northern Ireland,

:27:28.:27:35.

cloud and sunshine. 18 degrees in Belfast. Pleasant in the sunshine.

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Gusty winds continue in Scotland. The effect on the temperature is

:27:43.:27:50.

around 17 degrees in Aberdeen. Sunshine in northern England.

:27:50.:27:55.

Further south, we come into an area of cloud. Very warm in the far

:27:55.:28:01.

south-east. South-west England increasing cloud in the afternoon.

:28:01.:28:07.

A lot of drizzly and damp weather. As we move on through Tuesday night,

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that clears the way. A cool night to begin Wednesday morning.

:28:15.:28:20.

Wednesday delivers the best of the sunshine from the Midlands the

:28:20.:28:28.

south. For the rest of the week, across the bulk of the UK, the best

:28:28.:28:37.

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