In or Out: The EU Referendum BBC News Special


In or Out: The EU Referendum

Similar Content

Browse content similar to In or Out: The EU Referendum. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

Or what he says, or what he did or did not negotiate in Brussels.

:00:00.:00:08.

And it's not about him. Or them.

:00:09.:00:11.

No, this is now all about you, and your country.

:00:12.:00:14.

The clock is counting down towards the country's

:00:15.:00:34.

There's 121 days, 10 hours and 30 minutes to go.

:00:35.:00:43.

On Thursday June 23rd anyone over 18 who's living here and is a British,

:00:44.:00:46.

Irish or Commonwealth citizen, will have a vote in a referendum

:00:47.:00:51.

on whether we should be in or out of the European Union -

:00:52.:00:54.

whether we should stay or go - remain or leave.

:00:55.:00:59.

"Remain" or "Leave" are the words which will appear

:01:00.:01:02.

Tonight, the debate begins in the country,

:01:03.:01:10.

so in this special programme we will debate three key issues -

:01:11.:01:13.

immigration, jobs and sovereignty - with those who've already made

:01:14.:01:16.

up their mind, to help you if you've yet to make up yours.

:01:17.:01:20.

Arguing for out - Ukip leader Nigel Farage,

:01:21.:01:22.

city chief executive Helena Morrissey,

:01:23.:01:25.

and Tory Cabinet Minister Chris Grayling.

:01:26.:01:28.

Ranged against them - arguing that the UK should stay in -

:01:29.:01:31.

another Conservative Cabinet Minister, Anna Soubry,

:01:32.:01:34.

and former Labour Home Secretary, Alan Johnson.

:01:35.:01:44.

Our first - perhaps the most contentious subject - immigration.

:01:45.:01:47.

By being in the EU, any British citizen can get a job or settle

:01:48.:01:50.

in the other 27 countries in Europe and, of course,

:01:51.:01:54.

Lucy Manning looks at how freedom of movement has affected

:01:55.:02:00.

one British city - Leicester.

:02:01.:02:06.

It's been named Britain's most diverse road, and the flow

:02:07.:02:09.

of workers allowed to come to the UK has made its mark.

:02:10.:02:13.

EU immigration is one of the key issues, and it's something that has

:02:14.:02:16.

Narborough Road gives you a sense of how this is now a city

:02:17.:02:22.

where the majority of people were either born abroad

:02:23.:02:25.

or are from families who came from abroad.

:02:26.:02:29.

The shops here are run by people from across the world,

:02:30.:02:33.

but it's the Polish ones that have started springing up.

:02:34.:02:37.

Michael owns a shop on this road, one of the many Poles attracted

:02:38.:02:40.

So, what do you think you have contributed to Leicester?

:02:41.:02:45.

I opened a business, so maybe in the future

:02:46.:02:47.

Benefits, you get? No.

:02:48.:02:54.

Do you think Polish immigration is good for the UK?

:02:55.:02:57.

If they can find the work, and they work and not claim

:02:58.:03:00.

Where Leicester's immigration was from Southeast Asia

:03:01.:03:09.

and East Africa, now it's largely from Europe.

:03:10.:03:14.

The last census found the number of Poles here had increased by more

:03:15.:03:17.

than 1000%, and last year, more than 7000 EU workers

:03:18.:03:20.

Some of them are even part of top of the table Leicester City.

:03:21.:03:27.

A squad with an English core also has five players

:03:28.:03:30.

from the European Union, including Denmark, Germany and Poland.

:03:31.:03:34.

If it works well for the football team, does it work for the rest

:03:35.:03:37.

We need to get out of Europe, if you ask me.

:03:38.:03:42.

You want to go out of Europe? Yeah.

:03:43.:03:44.

Because then people can't just walk in.

:03:45.:03:47.

The door is not just freely open to anyone.

:03:48.:03:49.

Everybody should be able to come and work for a living,

:03:50.:03:51.

That's what we are about, really, the UK, welcoming everybody.

:03:52.:03:55.

It's definitely affecting the schools.

:03:56.:03:59.

People are saying it's because of immigration.

:04:00.:04:01.

So maybe it feels like there are too many people coming to Leicester

:04:02.:04:04.

That's the short and small of it, I think, yeah.

:04:05.:04:07.

At St Patrick's School, nearly 100 extra pupils has

:04:08.:04:10.

The number of families who have come from the EU has greatly increased

:04:11.:04:16.

If the borders were to close, it would have a huge impact

:04:17.:04:54.

We would struggle to fill the roles we currently have if we just had

:04:55.:04:59.

So, with the number of EU workers rising and rising,

:05:00.:05:05.

would it help or harm Britain to say it's now too much?

:05:06.:05:11.

Conservative Business Minister Anna Soubry wants the UK

:05:12.:05:13.

Nigel Farage is the leader of Ukip - no need to say what side he's on!

:05:14.:05:24.

I will ask you both do something in unusual, admit the problems with the

:05:25.:05:36.

arguments. There might be lots of good reasons for staying in the EU,

:05:37.:05:40.

but you can't actually control immigration

:05:41.:05:40.

but you can't actually control because effectively the borders are

:05:41.:05:47.

but you can't actually control countries. I don't think that is

:05:48.:05:50.

actually accurate. We still have border checks. I came back from

:05:51.:05:54.

Brussels just last Monday. Like everybody else, my passport was

:05:55.:05:59.

looked at. One of the joys about the membership of the European Union is

:06:00.:06:03.

that when it comes to things like the exchange of data and information

:06:04.:06:07.

to keep our country safer, because we are in the EU and have those

:06:08.:06:12.

arrangements, we are safer by being a member. I asked you to be honest.

:06:13.:06:16.

Anybody from the EU, who wants to come in here and get a job can. Yes.

:06:17.:06:22.

And it also means that anybody who lives here and is British can go

:06:23.:06:25.

over there. And 1.3 million people have done that. Nigel Farage, can

:06:26.:06:33.

you be honest, if you had controls, could you want, and you could have

:06:34.:06:39.

by leaving EU, they would come at a cost. All the other countries

:06:40.:06:41.

currently trading with EU and the single market have to have some form

:06:42.:06:46.

of free movement of people as well. No, you are talking about Norway and

:06:47.:06:50.

Switzerland who are closely integrated with the European market.

:06:51.:06:55.

All over the world countries and markets sell goods to the European

:06:56.:06:57.

Union without the need for free movement of people. The problem is

:06:58.:07:02.

simple, this is my British passport. We all have one of these. The first

:07:03.:07:07.

two words on it, European Union. That passport is now held by 500

:07:08.:07:13.

million people. We are not able to choose the numbers that come or the

:07:14.:07:17.

type of people who come. Immigration can be good, but we shouldn't have

:07:18.:07:22.

an open door to huge knob is of unskilled workers. America and all

:07:23.:07:31.

sorts of countries, that doesn't also have to have some sort of deal

:07:32.:07:35.

about having a free movement of people. I don't ... I want Britain

:07:36.:07:44.

to leave the European Union, stand on our own two feet and still trade.

:07:45.:07:50.

You can have had free trade deal without being part of a political

:07:51.:07:54.

union. You realise what this means, it means we will not trade as freely

:07:55.:07:58.

as we do now with a market of 500 million people. Our exports will be

:07:59.:08:03.

so much more difficult. What that means is that as a nation we will be

:08:04.:08:09.

poorer for it. We are the biggest market in the world. Cars, wine and

:08:10.:08:16.

cheese, we need us more than we need them. Just a spell this out for

:08:17.:08:21.

people, because they often hear this argument made, America trades with

:08:22.:08:25.

Europe, Canada trades with Europe, what would be different if we were

:08:26.:08:30.

to come out of the EU about our relationship that worries you? How

:08:31.:08:35.

long and what would it look like? It would take at least two years to

:08:36.:08:40.

come out and it would be chaos will stop the pound has already fallen

:08:41.:08:43.

today, and the credit rating with change. Suddenly there would be

:08:44.:08:49.

nobody coming to work here if we leave, anybody who believes that is

:08:50.:08:52.

being misled. People are worried about immigration. It's a price

:08:53.:08:58.

worth paying for them. Yes, the borders are more open, but it's a

:08:59.:09:02.

price worth paying. When we say it's a price worth paying, what we talk

:09:03.:09:05.

about is when we don't do it properly. It's the schoolteacher who

:09:06.:09:08.

doesn't have the resources or classes. In Hireme, immigration has

:09:09.:09:16.

been good for our country. -- inherently. We can't plan for

:09:17.:09:20.

schools or hospitals because of the open door we have no idea how me

:09:21.:09:25.

people will turn up. For all the people coming here, there are people

:09:26.:09:29.

who go there. Almost one and a quarter million Brits who live out

:09:30.:09:33.

there. Surely if you tear up that passport in the way you want to, you

:09:34.:09:37.

are effectively saying to the British or go to Spain and Germany

:09:38.:09:40.

and France, you probably won't be able to do that. Before we joined

:09:41.:09:45.

the European Union lots of British people were retiring to Spain and

:09:46.:09:49.

Germany and Brittany, where ever it may be. Nearly a million Brits are

:09:50.:09:52.

living in Spain and spending their money and without any Spanish

:09:53.:09:55.

economy would collapse. You are saying that we could close our doors

:09:56.:09:58.

but somehow they couldn't close theirs? We wouldn't close anything

:09:59.:10:04.

retrospectively. People who have moved around legally, on an ongoing

:10:05.:10:08.

basis, Brits would be welcomed in Spain and France because they spend

:10:09.:10:13.

money. Painfully short, but there will be lots of time to discuss over

:10:14.:10:15.

the coming months. Next, would we be richer or poorer

:10:16.:10:16.

in or out of this club Membership of the EU doesn't only

:10:17.:10:19.

allow all its citizens It also allows freedom

:10:20.:10:23.

of movement for goods, In other words, the ability

:10:24.:10:26.

to sell things, to trade, to do business freely

:10:27.:10:30.

across the EU's borders without having to pay

:10:31.:10:32.

tariffs or taxes or conform Allan Little has been to a European

:10:33.:10:35.

country that has chosen to stay out He visited from neighbouring Sweden,

:10:36.:10:39.

which is in the EU. The water is the border

:10:40.:10:46.

between Sweden and Norway - But you can drive straight across it

:10:47.:10:49.

without even noticing. When you cross this bridge,

:10:50.:10:56.

you are leaving the EU, but you don't have to

:10:57.:10:58.

show your passport here. In fact, there is no-one

:10:59.:11:01.

to show your passport to, Norway may not be in the EU,

:11:02.:11:03.

but it is part of the Schengen Area, which means that anyone from the EU

:11:04.:11:11.

can come and live and work here. 16% of Norway's population

:11:12.:11:17.

are migrants, and they are entitled to the same welfare

:11:18.:11:20.

benefits as Norwegians. Norwegians rejected EU membership

:11:21.:11:26.

in referendums in 1972 and 1994. We had a lot of scaremongering

:11:27.:11:32.

about losing jobs. They said we would lose 100,000 jobs

:11:33.:11:38.

by standing outside the EU, but every single day since has

:11:39.:11:44.

shown this was false. Nothing expresses Norway's

:11:45.:11:49.

independent character more eloquently than its

:11:50.:11:53.

relationship with the sea. Norwegians have sought

:11:54.:11:56.

to protect their fisheries But staying out of the EU means this

:11:57.:11:58.

salmon processing company has to pay a tariff to sell its

:11:59.:12:08.

products in EU countries. You have tariffs on smoked salmon,

:12:09.:12:14.

that's the only thing. It's owner thinks that's

:12:15.:12:16.

a price worth paying. I have been very constant

:12:17.:12:20.

in my belief that I think It's like saying, you know

:12:21.:12:23.

what you have, but you don't know But the world is

:12:24.:12:29.

changing around Norway. Despite its global reputation

:12:30.:12:34.

for quality and efficiency, Norway is facing growing

:12:35.:12:40.

competition from Poland. Similar fish products can be

:12:41.:12:44.

made there more cheaply, Here at Norway's Parliament,

:12:45.:12:46.

the political elites, unlike the people, have tended

:12:47.:12:54.

to favour EU membership. Most of the laws and directives

:12:55.:12:57.

and regulations issued by Brussels get ratified by this

:12:58.:13:01.

parliament anyway. Norway has to fall in line with EU

:13:02.:13:03.

law, even though it's not allowed Politicians here call that

:13:04.:13:06.

integration without representation. One foreign policy analyst

:13:07.:13:12.

told me that every chicken, pig and fish in Norway

:13:13.:13:16.

is a member of the EU, We are closely integrated

:13:17.:13:19.

into the market, but we have lost part of the sovereignty

:13:20.:13:25.

of deciding on the rules Would it be advantageous

:13:26.:13:29.

to Norway to be a member, I believe that, but I'm

:13:30.:13:33.

in a minority today. Norway may have stayed out,

:13:34.:13:39.

but the EU has exerted its gravitational pull here,

:13:40.:13:42.

and drawn this country into the orbit of European

:13:43.:13:45.

integration all the same. Jurgen Maier is the CEO of Siemens

:13:46.:13:54.

UK and thinks Brexit They employ 14,000 people in this

:13:55.:13:57.

country. Helena Morrissey, who runs the fund

:13:58.:14:05.

manager Newton Investment Management

:14:06.:14:08.

disagrees. The same challenge, to be open about

:14:09.:14:20.

the downsides. Doesn't Norway, and other examples illustrate the fact

:14:21.:14:22.

that you can't have your cake and eat it. If you want the full

:14:23.:14:26.

benefits of trading in Europe, with all those barriers down, you end up

:14:27.:14:30.

having to pay the price, either in money or by having an immigration

:14:31.:14:32.

policy you might not like. No, I think we can negotiate a good

:14:33.:14:47.

situation, we can access the single market if we decide to leave. Those

:14:48.:14:52.

two are not one and the same. How long did it take for the Canadians

:14:53.:14:57.

to develop a free trade deal? We will not be the same as Canada.

:14:58.:15:05.

Seven years, it was. We will have two years to start negotiating.

:15:06.:15:09.

Brexit will be the start of a process, not an event in itself. You

:15:10.:15:14.

manage vast sums in the city, why would you take a risk at a

:15:15.:15:33.

time the global economy is not very stable and say, we may get a better

:15:34.:15:38.

deal, we're not sure, it may take two years or it may take seven, why

:15:39.:15:41.

do that? We used to be called the sick man of Europe. Europe's

:15:42.:15:43.

economic malaise is self-inflicted. They do not have a good vibrant

:15:44.:15:45.

approach. I think as a global economy we would be better off

:15:46.:15:50.

seeking our place on the global stage. Juergen Maier, you have been

:15:51.:15:54.

part of the sick man of Europe, now you are an Austrian by birth, you

:15:55.:15:59.

run a German company, basically the European economy is a mess, why

:16:00.:16:04.

would we want to tie ourselves to a corpse? It is not true that it is a

:16:05.:16:10.

total mass. The whole of the global economy has been struggling

:16:11.:16:13.

somewhat. But we only tend to hear the bad news. The last two years,

:16:14.:16:21.

the European economy has started growing again. Spain last year grew

:16:22.:16:23.

faster than the British economy did. And just remember that 44% of our

:16:24.:16:28.

trade is done with the European economy. Why would we want to cut

:16:29.:16:32.

that off? That there are lots of successful economies which are not

:16:33.:16:37.

part of the EU, we just saw one, Norway. Why not be honest and say we

:16:38.:16:44.

would thrive perfectly well outside? Norway is Norway and Britain is

:16:45.:16:48.

quite different. I actually remember coming to the UK in 1974, when we

:16:49.:16:54.

were the sick man of Europe, and look at the progress this country

:16:55.:16:59.

has made in the last four decades as part of Europe. In your own case,

:17:00.:17:07.

the example of Siemens, 14,000 people employed, are you saying

:17:08.:17:11.

there is jobs would go if Britain left the EU? I have never said the

:17:12.:17:18.

jobs would all go. What I am saying is, how can we create many more

:17:19.:17:23.

jobs? We can create more jobs by being in Europe, have influence with

:17:24.:17:30.

Europe. Essentially, life would go one, we would trade? We would

:17:31.:17:33.

thrive. We have partnerships with the rest of the world. You have good

:17:34.:17:39.

presence in Norway, for example. Our success in Britain is not dependent

:17:40.:17:45.

on our membership of the EU. We are big manufacturer here in the UK at

:17:46.:17:49.

Siemens, and we would not be able to thrive outside of the EU. We would

:17:50.:17:54.

do OK. Does that mean when he decided to invest in a new factory

:17:55.:18:00.

making wind turbines or magnets for hospitals, you would say, not here,

:18:01.:18:06.

somewhere else? Let me give you a specific example. We at Siemens and

:18:07.:18:13.

other small engineering companies see a future in driverless cars. We

:18:14.:18:17.

can either get inside and help influence, create the best chance

:18:18.:18:22.

for British industry, all we can sit on the margins and we can hope that

:18:23.:18:27.

Brussels will look after us and that sounds pretty naive to me. And yet

:18:28.:18:32.

he makes things, he sells things, you move money around. Isn't the

:18:33.:18:38.

truth that people like you are against the EU is because Brussels

:18:39.:18:41.

came for the hedge fund is and the boys and girls in the City of London

:18:42.:18:47.

and you don't like it? We would still have to subscribe to

:18:48.:18:51.

regulation if we left the EU. It is a poor argument to say with friends

:18:52.:18:55.

like that, who needs enemies. I think we should be working on a

:18:56.:19:00.

positive future. I think Europe has a huge number of problems. It would

:19:01.:19:04.

be great if we saw fundamental reform. Youth unemployment is still

:19:05.:19:09.

huge in Spain, Italy and Greece. That is a tragedy and we are not

:19:10.:19:13.

seeing it addressed. I think Britain can go it global. We have to

:19:14.:19:34.

leave it there but one sentence? This is the point, there will be

:19:35.:19:38.

regulation if we are in or out, so why do it? Thank you, both of you.

:19:39.:19:41.

Perhaps the main reason the question of our relationship with Europe has

:19:42.:19:44.

been so controversial for so many years, is that it raises fundamental

:19:45.:19:47.

Do we have less sovereignty - less control over our own lives -

:19:48.:19:51.

by being in a big European club in which we can be outvoted?

:19:52.:19:54.

Or do we have more influence - more power to shape the world -

:19:55.:19:58.

because we are part of something much bigger than these islands?

:19:59.:20:00.

In a moment, Alan Johnson and Chris Grayling will debate

:20:01.:20:03.

the question of sovereignty but first, James Landale explains

:20:04.:20:05.

how power is divided between the UK government and parliament

:20:06.:20:07.

in Westminster and Brussels - the city where the EU is run from.

:20:08.:20:14.

We live in a parliamentary democracy.

:20:15.:20:15.

That means we get to choose the parliaments

:20:16.:20:17.

that make decisions on our behalf here at Westminster.

:20:18.:20:19.

But more than 40 years ago, Parliament decided to give up

:20:20.:20:22.

It chose to pool some power with other countries,

:20:23.:20:26.

in what was then called the European Community.

:20:27.:20:29.

And some say that was the right decision.

:20:30.:20:32.

There is a sacrifice of sovereignty, in that our Parliament can't

:20:33.:20:36.

overturn laws made say about the environment,

:20:37.:20:40.

once they are made at European level, but the original decision

:20:41.:20:44.

to go in, was to share some of our sovereignty,

:20:45.:20:46.

There are things that we can do collectively,

:20:47.:20:51.

So where does power lie in the European Union,

:20:52.:20:58.

and what say does Britain have?

:20:59.:21:03.

Well, much of the power that has been pulled together

:21:04.:21:05.

lies with the European Commission, the executive arm

:21:06.:21:08.

Every country, including Britain, has one commissioner around

:21:09.:21:13.

the table and their key power is the right to propose new EU laws.

:21:14.:21:19.

The European Commission cannot set Britain's tax rates, its health

:21:20.:21:24.

But it can propose things like common trading rules,

:21:25.:21:30.

farm subsidies and environmental policies.

:21:31.:21:36.

The Commission though does not get to decide those new laws.

:21:37.:21:40.

That is the job of the European Council, which represents

:21:41.:21:43.

the governments of the 28 member states.

:21:44.:21:46.

This is the body where British ministers, that we elect,

:21:47.:21:48.

can veto or vote against proposals they don't like.

:21:49.:21:53.

And let's not forget the only directly elected parts

:21:54.:21:55.

of the EU, the European Parliament.

:21:56.:21:58.

It has 751 members, known as MEPs, of which 73

:21:59.:22:04.

represent Britain, the third-largest national grouping.

:22:05.:22:08.

There is also the European Court of Justice in Luxembourg,

:22:09.:22:11.

the judges who make sure no one breaks EU law.

:22:12.:22:15.

But critics say all that means too much power has left Westminster.

:22:16.:22:20.

We have given away our right to self-government, so instead

:22:21.:22:23.

of the people you elect to Westminster being responsible,

:22:24.:22:28.

being allowed to do their best and you can get rid

:22:29.:22:30.

of them if they make a mess, you cannot

:22:31.:22:32.

change any of these things because they have been settled

:22:33.:22:35.

in Brussels by 28 countries, and there is no

:22:36.:22:38.

chance of getting 27 other countries to agree with us,

:22:39.:22:40.

So critics say there is a gap between the free market many thought

:22:41.:22:46.

they were joining and the centralising bureaucracy

:22:47.:22:49.

of Brussels that is deciding stuff

:22:50.:22:51.

that really should be a matter for our Parliament.

:22:52.:22:55.

And supporters say the EU is still greater than the sum of its parts.

:22:56.:23:01.

Ultimately, this referendum will be about power.

:23:02.:23:05.

Should it reside wholly at Westminster

:23:06.:23:07.

Chris Grayling is one of the six Cabinet ministers to go

:23:08.:23:15.

against his Prime Minister and campaign to leave the EU.

:23:16.:23:18.

Alan Johnson is a former Home Secretary

:23:19.:23:20.

in charge of Labour's efforts to stay.

:23:21.:23:28.

Alan Johnson, I will start with you, if I may, be honest, you do

:23:29.:23:36.

obviously lose control, you lose sovereignty if you join a great big

:23:37.:23:42.

club because you can be outvoted? Isn't it honest to admit that? You

:23:43.:23:47.

can. The argument John Redwood was making was being made by Scots last

:23:48.:23:51.

year saying if we leave the United Kingdom we could have control over

:23:52.:23:56.

our own affairs. Our argument was if you are part of something bigger you

:23:57.:24:00.

gain in Scotland and the whole of the UK would gain as well. I don't

:24:01.:24:06.

think I can think of an example whether it is the United Nations,

:24:07.:24:09.

Nato or the World Trade Organisation, where you don't lose

:24:10.:24:14.

some of your control, in order to cooperate with other countries to a

:24:15.:24:20.

meaningful effect? If a businessman in your constituency wanted to sell

:24:21.:24:28.

all of oil in six litre containers, some rule from Brussels would tell

:24:29.:24:31.

him he could not -- olive oil. People say, why should we tolerate

:24:32.:24:39.

that? That was the case I would look into that. It is a case. The

:24:40.:24:46.

competition rules say that for our big markets for our companies to

:24:47.:24:49.

sell into, bigger commercial markets than the US or China, there have to

:24:50.:24:54.

be rules that govern that, in our interests as well, for the olive oil

:24:55.:24:59.

maker in Hull, who I have not heard of yet but I am sure he is there. We

:25:00.:25:05.

have ceded to Brussels by treaty to our Parliament. He has said you give

:25:06.:25:11.

a bit, but you give something back. Chris Grayling, you said recently it

:25:12.:25:16.

would be disastrous to stay in the EU. Puzzled by this. We still

:25:17.:25:21.

control matters of war and peace, we still control the NHS, we still

:25:22.:25:26.

control our schools, we control taxes, the minimum wage, day by day

:25:27.:25:32.

the main business of government is controlled by Westminster and

:25:33.:25:35.

Whitehall. But there are plenty of issues where that is not the case.

:25:36.:25:40.

The EU has decided what vitamin tablets we are allowed to take.

:25:41.:25:46.

They're also the big issues. At the moment, our statisticians are saying

:25:47.:25:50.

our population will rise to 75 to 80 million. I don't believe we can

:25:51.:25:55.

cope. We have not got the schools, houses or hospitals. But we cannot

:25:56.:25:59.

set limits on the large numbers of people who want to come and live and

:26:00.:26:04.

work in the UK. If large numbers of people want to come from Eastern

:26:05.:26:09.

Europe, we cannot set limits. I asked you to talk about sovereignty,

:26:10.:26:13.

there is an enormous amount we control, we make a decision on

:26:14.:26:17.

immigration and as I two Nigel Farage, people go the other

:26:18.:26:23.

direction as well. We have just had two successful international visits

:26:24.:26:26.

from the Chinese president and the Indian Prime Minister. We are not

:26:27.:26:31.

able now to forge our own free trade agreements with India and China. We

:26:32.:26:34.

have to ask the EU's permission to get on with that. Why is that in our

:26:35.:26:42.

interest? We have to wait for the whole of Europe. The Prime Minister

:26:43.:26:48.

of India said Britain should remain in the EU. Our exports to India

:26:49.:26:53.

Pakistan have gone up by 93% since we were members. People in 1975

:26:54.:27:01.

agreed that actually we should have on competition law, it should be

:27:02.:27:06.

European wide, so that British companies don't suffer from

:27:07.:27:10.

uncompetitive practices. That is the point, Chris Grayling, at the

:27:11.:27:14.

moment, if a British company is discriminated against in Europe, you

:27:15.:27:18.

can take it to the European Court. Someone in your constituency can

:27:19.:27:22.

say, this is not fair, the rule for not being applied. If you leave,

:27:23.:27:28.

there's nothing you can do? For a long time we have been the good

:27:29.:27:31.

guys, often our businesses find it is not happening elsewhere. When

:27:32.:27:36.

they knock on your door you will have to say, search me, nothing I

:27:37.:27:41.

can do. Within which gives us a really strong hand in all of this,

:27:42.:27:45.

in what you are talking about now and in Brexit and what comes

:27:46.:27:48.

afterwards, they depend on us much more than we depend on them. They

:27:49.:27:52.

spend far less money with us than we do with them. 65 million people by

:27:53.:28:01.

more... It is all they end them. This is 27 countries on our own

:28:02.:28:07.

continent who we decided to work with originally to stop wars

:28:08.:28:11.

starting in Europe. The result of which was carnage for the 20th

:28:12.:28:15.

century. The idea that we should get together is have George or Rather

:28:16.:28:20.

than war war was Churchill. It was Nato to keep the peace. We do not

:28:21.:28:24.

have to be in the EU to keep the peace. Is this it? It is a decision

:28:25.:28:30.

one way or the other. I hope people will decide to leave because that is

:28:31.:28:36.

what makes us an independent country once again. Thank you.

:28:37.:28:38.

I'm often told that it doesn't matter how you vote because "they"

:28:39.:28:41.

are all the same and "they" are all in it for themselves

:28:42.:28:44.

The choice will be a simple, plain, black and white one -

:28:45.:28:52.

Now, though, is not about their future.

:28:53.:28:59.

It is about you and yours and your country's.

:29:00.:29:02.

Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS