08/11/2017 BBC Wales Live

Here on BBC One, it's time

for the news where you are.

We will be here every Wednesday

night with the latest on the biggest

stories in Wales, with interviews

and analysis, we will ask the

questions that you want answering.

This is Wales Live.

Hello, and welcome, on the programme

tonight: increasing pressure on the

First Minister over the sacking of

Carl Sargeant, found dead yesterday,

days after allegations emerged about

his personal conduct. Carwyn Jones

is facing questions over his

handling of the situation.

In most

cases, whether you work as an

elected or senior politician, as

Carl Sargeant was, or you work in

the corner shop, you deserve the

same care and attention and the same

duty of care.

Also tonight,

exclusive interview with a mother

whose son went off to fight against

so-called Islamic State in Syria,

she thought that he was going on

holiday. And the autumn

internationals get underway this

weekend, the Wales and British and

Irish Lions star Jamie Roberts asks,

is professional rugby union too

risky?

There has been a real concern

about the number of players getting

injured, which begs the question, is

there an injury crisis in our sport?

All that to come, but first, the

very latest news, sport and weather.

The family of Carl Sargeant,

the late Welsh Government minister

who was sacked last week over

allegations of inappropriate

behaviour, say he was deprived

of natural justice,

claiming he hadn't been

able to defend himself.

Mr Sargeant is thought to have

taken his own life yesterday.

The Labour party says it

followed procedures in line

with the investigations.

Here's our Political

Editor Nick Servini.

VOICEOVER: Carwyn Jones returns home

to night after a day in which the

family of Carl Sargeant has hit out

at the way that he was sacked last

week.

Use at his five with the way

that you handle the allegations

against Carl Sargeant? -- are you

satisfied. Statement tomorrow?

They

released a series of letters between

Carl Sargeant's solicitor and the UK

Labour Party which revealed what was

going on behind-the-scenes to the

point that his body was found on

Tuesday at his home, after

apparently taking his own life. One

letter from his solicitor showed

that the former minister knew the

allegations involved and wanted

he was pushing for further details,

and the family statement said that

meant:

privately, there is anger among

Labour ranks, Carwyn Jones attended

the opening of the Welsh national

Field of Remembrance at Cardiff

Council this morning, in a statement

this morning he said that it was a

difficult time for everybody,

particularly Carl's family and went

on to say that Carwyn

particularly Carl's family and went

on to say that Carwyn, like everyone

in the Welsh Labour family, is

deeply upset by the death of his

friend. There will be a crunch

meeting tomorrow, the first

opportunity to discuss the tragic

events of the past week.

A man has admitted causing death

by dangerous driving

after an object flew

off his van killing a nurse.

Thirty-one-year-old Barry Slaymaker,

seen here in the blue jacket,

was driving along the Nant Y Garth

Pass near Felinheli last September.

Fifty-year-old Susan

Owen was travelling

in the opposite direction.

He'll be sentenced

later this month.

A Health Board has

"apologised unreservedly"

after an inspection discovered

"significant" failings at the

mortuary of Wales' biggest hospital.

Tissue samples from 42 people,

and in some cases entire organs,

were kept at the University Hospital

of Wales for longer

than is permitted,

following the conclusion

of investigations by

the POLICE or CORONER.

The Human Tissue Authority says

a significant amount

of work needs to be done,

to bring standards up to scratch.

Our

systems have let us down, that is

the failing, our systems have let us

down, a number of those are

administrative systems and I would

suggest there is no excuse, we have

to put that right and we need to put

it right and make sure it stays

right until the future.

TATA is to invest £30 million in its

Port Talbot steelworks.

It plans to install a 500 tonne

steel-making vessell,

and OTHER equipment which will help

it produce advanced-material

for electric and hybrid cars.

Unions welcome the investment,

but want TATA to commit

to the re-lining of one of the blast

furnaces, to secure the long-term

future of the site.

Ten thousand crosses have been

laid-out in the grounds

of Cardiff Castle, to create

a 'Field of Remembrance' for those

who died while serving

in the Armed Forces.

Organised by the Royal British

Legion - the field in the Welsh

capital is one of SIX

across the UK.

One football result

for you this evening.

And it was a win for

Wrexham in tonight's Derby

match against Chester.

The final score 1-0.

The match went ahead

with relaxed safety measures.

Police had relaxed travel

restrictions following a drop

in arrests and disorder.

in arrests and disorder.

in arrests and disorder.

Time for the weather forecast

now, a cloudier night

compared with last night.

Some RAIN across Western parts.

That rain spilling South-Eastwards

through the night.

Some hill fog developing too.

Overnight lows 5 -8 Celcius.

Light to moderate wind. Rain will

clear by the afternoon, and we can

look forward to drier and brighter

conditions. It will feel milder than

today with highs of 12 to 14

degrees.

Pressure is growing on Carwyn Jones,

after the family of Carl Sargeant

said that he was deprived of natural

justice. He was found dead

yesterday, days after losing his

cabinet job amid accusations of

unwanted attention, inappropriate

touching and groping. It is

understood he took his own life.

Today, the family of Carl Sargeant

released copies of letters sent by

his solicitors to Labour requesting

more information, concerns were

raised about his well-being. In a

moment we will hear from the former

Wales government minister, but we

are at the Senate in Cardiff Bay.

A

sombre yet extraordinary 36 hours in

Welsh politics, and lots of

developments today. This morning, a

former public standards watchdog

called for an independent enquiry

into the handling of the sacking of

Carl Sargeant and tonight, a friend

of Carl Sargeant, senior Labour

figure in local government, has

called for Carwyn Jones to resign. I

have been looking at how this story

has unfolded and the questions that

remain are nonsense.

VOICEOVER: It

was here at Welsh government HQ in

the centre of Cardiff on Friday

morning, as Carwyn Jones again the

latest reshuffle of his eight year

reign as First Minister, and brought

to an end the 10-year government

career of his close colleague and

friend, Carl Sargeant. Just after

1:50pm, that afternoon, Carl

Sargeant tweeted a personal

statement, saying he was shocked and

distressed that allegations had been

made about his personal conduct, he

said he was not told detail and

called for an independent

investigation, he said that he would

clear his name. Minutes later, Welsh

Labour confirmed he had been

suspended from the party. Then, at

2:30pm, a spokesman for the First

Minister confirmed the allegations

were the reason Carl Sargeant had

been removed from the cabinet.

Sources later told BBC News whales

that he had been sacked. Later on

that Friday afternoon, his lawyer

was told by a Labour Party that the

allegations fell into the category

of unwanted attention, inappropriate

touching, or groping. And no further

detail was given. -- BBC Wales. It

is an approach that today drew

criticism from a barrister.

Nothing

was said about when it was alleged

to have happened, nothing was said,

for example, as to whether or not he

was asked, do you access or deny

this? In most cases, whether you

work as an elected, senior

politician, or you were proverbially

in the corner shop, you deserve the

same care and attention and the same

duty of care.

Over the weekend, Carl

Sargeant remained in the dark about

the details of the allegations, his

family said this afternoon that this

was despite West and warnings

regarding his mental welfare.

Friends and former colleagues say

that he was not offered support by

Labour, one former Labour worker

said that the Handling had put the

emphasis on the smack of firm

government, rather than a duty of

care to a colleague. Then on Monday,

the First Minister gave more detail,

publicly.

I became aware of a number

of incidents, at the beginning of

last week, as a result of being

aware of the incidents, I asked my

office to speak to those women

involved that provided detail, and

as a result of those conversations,

I felt I had no choice but to refer

the matter to the party. By Monday

night, concern was beginning to

emerge about the way the situation

had been handled.

The sexual

harassment story that has engulfed

politics was the main talking point

as members of Parliament returned to

Cardiff Bay yesterday following the

half term break, the party leaders

were intending to meet to discuss

the matter and yesterday morning

Carwyn Jones called a meeting of

Labour's AMs and support staff to

discuss the way that the party

listens to concerns. The people in

the room have told us that towards

the end of the meeting, Carwyn Jones

was approached by his cabinet

colleague, Lesley Griffiths, who

informed him that Carl Sargeant had

been found dead. The news broke at

lunchtime.

A former Welsh government

secretary Carl Sargeant has died.

Gradually, yesterday, amid the

shocked and upset for politicians

and staffers, questions began to

crystallise, why hadn't Carl

Sargeant been given more detail

about the allegations, why had he

been sacked from government before

an investigation was conducted, and

just how much support at the Labour

Party given him over the weekend?

This afternoon, Carl Sargeant's

family released copies of

correspondence that his solicitors

sent to labour on Monday, asking for

more detail on the allegations. In a

statement, the family said there

would be -- there had been no

natural justice. The area's MP

visited them this afternoon.

They

are angry because they have

questions about the process and how

it has ended up with this. But I

think they need some space, to

really try as best they can to come

to terms with what has happened.

This evening, Labour tried to

clarify the process it had followed,

the procedure was to initially

outlined the nature of the

allegations, giving the detail would

have formed the next part of the

investigation. Carwyn Jones appeared

in public today, but was not doing

any interviews. His spokesman said

the First Minister is deeply upset

by the death of his friend.

First

Minister, BBC Wales, have you got

anything to say?

Back at home in

Bridgend tonight, he told BBC Wales

he will give a statement tomorrow,

when he will also meet Labour AMs,

AMs they want answers to big

questions.

Joined by our Welsh affairs editor,

and the former Welsh government

minister, Alistair Andrews, thank

you very much for joining us at such

a difficult time. You have lost a

dear friend and colleague, it must

have been devastating news.

It was

devastating, it is still devastating

for Carl's family and friends,

people in the late family, people

who are part of this... Carl was

loved.

You said yesterday now is not

the time to talk about how things

have been handled, have you had any

thoughts, following a statement from

the family, this afternoon, saying

that he was not afforded common

courtesy, decency, natural justice,

is that how you see it?

A lot of

questions to be asked, some of which

have been mentioned in the

programme. If you look at the

situation, on Friday, we were told

that the First Minister was handing

this over to the Labour Party, and

it was going to be a Labour Party

enquiry. My understanding with a

process like that, I worked in the

BBC, there would be a process,

conducted behind closed doors.

Statements would be taken, people

would be interviewed. Materials

would be gathered and documented.

And yet, and yet, you know, having

passed this over on Friday, to the

Labour Party, on Monday, the First

Minister is doing interviews with

the BBC, and with ITV as well, in

which he is collaborating on the

story, and commenting on the story.

That is not due process. If there is

due process, that should be

conducted behind closed doors, with

proper interviews, proper

documentation, and people should not

be freelancing in interviews, making

further comments, whether they are

the First Minister or not.

You are

clearly angry with the way Carwyn

Jones has handled this.

Very angry

with the interviews on Monday and

the anger within the Labour Party

across Wales, and beyond the Labour

Party, in Carl's local community,

people of no political party, evil

do not think Carl Sargeant has been

treated fairly.

Are you agreeing

with those people then who are

calling for him to stand down, can

he carry on, given this?

I'm not

here to call for scalps anything

else.

I'm here to support Carl's

memory and his family.

What we want

to see is justice for Carl. We want

proper due process to be followed,

we want the situation now to be

investigated. I also think there is

a big issue about Judy of care to

Carl, I don't believe there was

sufficient attention to Carl's

mental state over the weekend, or in

the days after that. I think that is

a very big issue for the Labour

Party. And it is a very big issue in

politics more widely.

I am sure that everybody watching

can understand how emotional you

feel. Take a moment. Good evening.

Is this the sort of story, the

people that you have spoken to over

the last 24-48 hours, the sort of

thing that could possibly see the

end of Carwyn Jones as First

Minister?

Very possibly. I would

caution against saying it is going

to be some sort of huge explosion to

him being thrown out. This hastens

the end. People think that he has

exercised very poor judgment, about

following the party rules. On the

one hand, it should have been a

matter for the panel of the

executive committee in London, not

Carwyn Jones. I think there will be

real questions asked. We were

expecting Carwyn Jones to depart at

some stage during this assembly

term, it is if that is going to be

brought forward. Attempts for him to

part with dignity, but his hold

severely beaten.

You have been

covering Welsh politics. They talked

about the duty of care. What do you

think happened?

By handing the

process to the party, Carwyn Jones

was handing a duty of care to the

party. It could be that things feel

between two stools. Somebody thought

someone else was doing something. In

any organisation, you have a named

HR officer, keeping an eye out for

welfare. It does not seem to me that

that happened. Carl Sergeant was an

assembly member, Carwyn Jones could

have asked for standards to

investigate. The Commissioner for

standards would have had a set of

procedures to be followed. What

appears to have happened, I have not

talked to the families so I do not

want to say that I have got a full

understanding but it seems that what

has happened, no-one has phoned up

Carl Sergeant and asked how are you

feeling. This is what is happening.

I've got any questions about the

process? What do we need to do to

help see you through the process?

But does not seem to have happened.

We were hoping for Carwyn Jones

potentially or a minister here,

perhaps they would say that process

was being followed and the detail

was to follow. What would you say to

that?

I am sure that Carwyn himself

is traumatised either Spurs miss. No

monopoly over grief. But this was a

question that clearly required

delicate handling, and fair process.

The trade union colleagues in the

labour movement would not recognise

this process, a process that you

would expect in a corporation, third

sector setting. Proper rules. People

would understand them. And Carl with

have been told the details. The

barrister has made that point. Even

as late as Tuesday morning, he did

know the details of what he was

being accused of.

And the balance of

protecting anonymity, safeguarding

the well-being of the accused who

clearly do not think that was

struck.

Of course it was not. It has

to be due respect and attention to

those who have raised the

complaints. But equally the person

being complained of has the right to

a fair procedure.

Final question.

Investigation is being carried out

at Westminster, all sorts of other

allegations, do you think this

changes anything?

I think it might.

What we have seen, I do not know who

any of these complainants are not

one suspects that they would feel

dreadful. None of this would have

wanted this to end this way. I think

people will say we need to be less

cavalier about some of these

accusations, the way that they have

been treated, but one thing that I

resent, people have said this is

trial by media. The media covered

none of this until the Welsh

government, Carwyn Jones reached a

decision. All that we have done,

covered the decisions they made.

This is not trial by media.

I am

sure we will be discussing that

again. Thank you both very much for

coming.

Last summer, Adil Proctor waved her

son off, but he was actually going

to join Islamic State fighters in

Iraq and Syria. He was charged with

terror offence, something his mother

thing should not have happened. She

has been speaking to a reporter.

What has she had to say?

This is

unusual for a couple of different

reasons. We are accustomed to

learning about Brits who have been

radicalised, fighting for so-called

Islamic State. 850 people from

Britain have done that. This is

unusual, far fewer light Josh who

have joined militia fighting against

Islamic State. When Josh returned he

was up in court. Facing terror

charges. Nothing to do with the fact

that he had been to Syria, that is

something that his mum is very

critical of. This is what she had to

say.

Josh is idealist, passionate.

When he was growing up I took him on

a number of marchers, so if you

believe in something, do something

about it. Not just lip service.

Josh

went to the local Welsh medium

school, studying International

politics and strategy at university.

Last summer he told his mum, a

secondary school teacher, he was

going to Turkey to help refugees.

As

he left, he gave me a massive hug, I

really love you. But he looked at

me, I really love you. I thought

what is wrong with him? I just

thought he was being particularly

sweet.

What Josh was not seeing,

against Foreign Office advice, he

was on his way to Syria, joining a

militia fighting against Islamic

State. His main role was as a

translator but he was also trained

to use a gun. He said he fired it

once when a suicide car was driven

at him. Had she known what he was

planning, Adele said she would never

have let him leave the country.

He

said I would probably have stopped

him, and they would have physically

wrestled him to the ground and take

in the passport. Josh knows that.

The only way that I knew he was OK,

Facebook stalking. If he appeared on

Facebook.

How could you call with

not knowing, not knowing when you

would speak to him next?

I ended up

on anti-anxiety tablets, because you

can only hide it so much. It is just

this deep panic.

All the time.

During this time, anti-terror police

were also visiting. When Josh flew

home to Gatwick Airport he was

detained. It was when he was being

questioned police got a partial copy

of a book called the anarchist

cookbook. It is a 1970 DIY guide to

warfare and on explosives, available

for anybody off the shelf. Josh told

police he had been using it as part

of war strategy systems that he and

other students were acting at

university. He was charged with

possessing of information likely to

be useful to a person likely to

commit an act of terror. The think

it was appropriate you was

questioned?

Yes. It is a safeguard.

That should happen as a matter of

course. But I just did not think

there would then be a nine-month

police investigation. It was surreal

and really stressful. I thought what

is going on. It is a ridiculous

waste of everybody's time. And the

money that must have been spent.

After a four-day trial, a jury found

Josh not guilty. Some members of the

jury approached Adele outside court.

They said you have got to do one

thing. Give him a slap! Putting you

through all of that. I said, do not

worry, a long line of people arguing

to do that after what he has put me

through. It is logical, for the

upbringing he had, he would want to

put his money where his mouth is.

You have got to the careful what you

wish for for your child.

I will pick

up on one of the points, about the

criticism of the Crown Prosecution

Service. CPS said the only

prosecuted Josh after detailed

consideration of the evidence. The

Home Office said that ultimately

anybody going to Syria or Iraq has

two remember that they must be

expected to be investigated by

police. Not going to be a threat to

national security, only going to

prosecute on a case-by-case basis.

Josh is currently working but he

does plan to return to university to

continue the studies. Home safe.

Thank you. Back to you.

Senate, the Welsh Rugby Union

chairman has told that the rising

concussions could seriously threaten

the reputation of the sport. He

said

that limiting replacements could

indeed help the sport. Has Rugby

union become too risky? Jamie

Roberts has been investigating.

I think yes. There is a rugby there

is a rugby injury problem.

From our

numbers perspective, it is one of

the worst.

We have got health and

safety laws for a reason. People do

not die at work. We have got to

treat rugby the same.

Nasty

collisions. The game has changed

totally.

I was told by the doctor

you cannot play any more. It was a

relief.

Rugby is of course a contact

sport and for players it is

certainly a case of when and not if

we will get injured. The season in

particular it has been a real

concern about the number getting

injured. That begs the question, and

injury crisis in the sport?

Unfortunately, it is part of this

tough game. 22 years on from the

arrival of professionalism, really

paid the price. You get the upper

body. Heads always collating. Strong

people trained to prevent strong

people.

Rugby is a contact sport and

always has been but since

professionalism does not become a

contact sport, it is collision

sport. The collisions are getting

more violent, players are bigger and

stronger and the number of

collisions has been growing

exponentially. We are now seeing the

second, third generation of

professionalism when children

almost, 13, 14 in the gym, getting

bigger and stronger. We were not

doing that when I was playing.

Becoming big men.

Stories have...

Season of the of the growing injury

list. Dragons messing 29. And more

than 80 injured in the first four

weeks of the season. A doctor from

university is studying injuries in

Welsh professional rugby and is

funded by the Welsh Rugby Union and

world rugby. The research she was a

staggering 172% increase in the

number of concussions in the four

seasons up to 2016. Overall numbers

remain pretty static.

Concussion has

risen, that could be because of the

head injury assessment, allowing

people more time to diagnose

concussion so what we are seeing, a

true reflection of the concussion

rates. Almost double what are

essentially they used to be.

The

risk of getting injured in an

international match is twice as high

as a professional club or regional

game.

When you start the game, you

and three others are likely to be

enjoyed an international. We would

expect four injuries per Autumn

International.

Players coming from

the club side to the international

side, inevitably some degree of

injury. The way that they manage

that, the player would be signed as

red, amber, green. Very few green.

An some injuries can affect life

long after hanging up the boots, one

of my former team-mates had to

retire because of injury. He has

been told he will need a knee

replacement by the age of 40.

Towards the end of my career I do

not have fond memories because I had

the bad injury for so long. The

constant eating, having to have it

drained on Wednesday. Dreaming all

the blood. And then playing on

Afridi Saturday. I was tearing

cartilage. I was told by the doctor

I could not play any more. It was a

relief.

At some points, my body

feels as though it could definitely

do with the break. And Billy

Vunipola said he would take a peek

cut to place your games in a season.

In Wales, top players limited to 32

games a season.

Three a month. That

is reasonable. Any less than that

and you would be losing form and

momentum.

The problem, so many

moving parts. World rugby have

already agreed a calendar to 2032.

We know the number of international

that are going to be played.

Television once the money, and

players want to get paid. Clubs,

investors, the unions. In order to

fund the whole game.

So many moving

parts. Always going to be risk of

injury. But what is too high? That

is the ultimate question. I think

they are high. I think we need to do

something.

So what can be done to me

begin safer?

A lot of small things,

even as radical as the weight limit

on the team.

One area, the

substitutions. If you expect a

player to be playing for 80 minutes,

owing to have to change the

physicality and make up, not huge,

muscular and strong for a

high-intensity 80 minutes.

They

should be fairly certain that you

are going to be walking off at

being.

Being next week. The lucky 23

going to do battle against Australia

at the Stadium on Saturday. The

beginning of one of the most intense

periods in the rugby calendar. As

players you understand the risks of

getting injured are pretty high but

you would not change that for the

world. Jamie Roberts, pretty good

reporter. And it is also his

birthday. Happy birthday. That is

at. We will be back next week. Thank

you very much indeed for watching.

From all of us, goodnight. Nos da.