22/11/2017 BBC Wales Live

Andy Swiss, BBC News, Brisbane.

That's it.

Good evening.

Good evening.

We know what is going to be in the

budget. But what does it mean for

you? Stay with us for the latest

reaction and a round-up of news and

weather. This is Wales Live.

Wellcome to Wales Live, tonight in a

special budget debate we're going to

be getting the post-match reaction

to the Chancellor's plans. Is this

going to leave you with more or less

cash? Simply leaving you confused?

People from Wales are going to have

a say. And a panel of politicians to

react. Before the end of the sure we

will go back in time to see how the

budget Day has changed over the

years.

Another 2p on beer. 11.9p on

petrol. I do not know what is good

to happen over the next coming

years.

It is going to be difficult.

First... A round up of the news.

Good evening.

An extra £1.2 billion

for the Welsh Government to spend

over the next four years.

over the next four years.

Just one of the announcements

included in the Chancellor's budget.

Phillip Hammond also outlined

an end to Stamp Duty

for most first-time buyers -

but with that power soon to be

devolved to the Welsh Government -

it's unclear what effect that

will have here.

Our Economics Correspondent,

Sarah Dickins, reports.

Housing has been described as the

problem of our time by the Prime

Minister. Today the Chancellor took

steps to start building more homes.

Here, 92. Philip Hammond acted to

help people get on the property

ladder.

With effect for today, for

all first time buyer purchases up to

£300,000, I am abolishing stamp

duty.

That includes Wales for now

but the Welsh government gets

responsibility from April.

The vast

majority of first time buyers in

Wales, catered for by the existing

policy. I want to look at things and

bring forward proposals by think

that is in their interest.

Almost

400,000 public sector workers across

Wales did not see an end to cap on

pay. Some said money is so short

they are facing difficult choices.

If I put the central heating on, or

leave the coat on...

I am not alone

in that. British workers produce

less in the week than other leading

countries, and that Wales it is

lower than the UK average. The

Chancellor hopes to increase

productivity with incentives,

driverless cars, and developments

like artificial intelligence. And if

you wondered if tolls on the bridge

will be axed then the Chancellor

said again they will be. It is clear

the economy is not as good as

thought, official forecast

downgraded additive is difficult to

see any significant change in living

standards in Wales.

Tonight, an Abbey at the centre

of historical child sexual abuse

allegations has apologised that

claims against one of its monks

weren't passed-on to police.

weren't passed-on to police.

11 women say a Father

sexually abused them

on Caldey Island in Pembrokeshire

in the 1970s and 80s.

The current Abbot, Brother Daniel

van Santvoort said in a statement

he was 'truly sorry'

that his predecessor 'didn't pass-on

the allegations to the police.'

An inquest has heard a Head Teacher

from Cardiff killed himself

after he learned police

were investigating him over

allegations of possessing

indecent images.

51-year-old Huw Jones -

who was a head at Albert

Primary School in Penarth -

was found hanged in a churchyard in

the Vale of Glamorgan, in February.

The coroner recorded

a conclusion of suicide.

Less than three months

after hurricanes devastated

the British Virgin Islands,

officers from Gwent Police who

travelled to the Caribbean to help -

have been sharing their experiences.

The group spent time guarding

vital aid supplies -

and clearing debris -

so the islanders could start

rebuilding their lives.

We have seen the pictures and the

media, we had seen the devastation,

the mosquitoes and the infestation.

We knew was not going to be great

circumstances. But I was willing to

give us 100% and work alongside my

colleagues.

Rugby - and wing, George North,

will return to Wales

on a 'National Dual Contract'

at the end of the season.

The 25-year-old -

currently at Northampton -

has 69 caps for Wales.

Head Coach, Warren Gatland,

says a decision on which region

North will join, will be made

in the coming months.

North will join, will be made

in the coming months.

Time for the weather forecast now.

Time for the weather forecast now.

And the windy and wet conditions

will continue for a time.

But the rain easing off,

and clearing overnight -

and it will become rather chilly.

The overnight lows back

into single figures -

ranging between five

to eight celsius.

Tomorrow then, Thursday,

a bright and windy start -

certainly an improvement

on today's conditions - but it

will feel less mild.

Then the showers get going.

Then the showers get going.

The Chancellor has the love about

budget since the snap election in

May. Here it goes in. T seconds. --

in 30 seconds.

Plenty to talk about with

politicians from the five main

parties from the studio and

Westminster. What does the audience

make of what they have heard? We

have got people from all walks of

life. Firefighter. Farmer. Student.

We have managed to get a pub

landlord. Guests from the world

business. Good evening. Helen... You

run a scrap yard business. Was there

enough until Hammond's speech today

to stimulate growth?

It was rather a

non budget. We had a few things

about VAT thresholds not been

reduced. That is going to be good.

Does not impact me personally

because I am over the threshold but

it is useful for people. Things

around infrastructure for Wales. Not

anything about the tidal lagoon. I

think we have an opportunity around

the National wage increase that is

happening. I think that is going to

be good for people on more incomes.

But not really anything that gave me

the stimulus to grow the business

and I have concerns about what is

going to happen going forward. Some

things interesting me but nothing

really significant.

Not what I

wanted. So many aspects to discuss.

I just want to bring you in, Dr. So

many people worried about the state

of the NHS. What have you made of

the fact that the Chancellor has

promised £2.8 billion for England

and not Wales?

I am disappointed

that the budget is not enough to

maintain NHS for a world-class free

service for everybody at the point

of care. It is not clear how much is

going to go to the NHS itself. It is

at breaking point. Doctors and

nurses are leaving for the private

sector. People have to wait a long

time to get operations fixed or

done. The NHS is facing a financial

and human resources traces from

every aspect.

This is not helping.

You are a nurse?

It is not good at

all. No indication of the pay cap

being raised. Nothing left for

nurses. We are tomorrow lysed and

overworked. We cannot recruit.

People are leaving. It is not good

for nurses. I do not know where this

goes.

And the view from the student?

Not particularly much that was great

for students. The transparent young

people vote, with stamp duty. It

showed signs of a government that

has lost confidence and its own

principles and the ability to make

their case for those principles in

any sort of ambitious way. The

budget surplus has been kicked into

long grass. An even welcome measures

like the stamp duty reform do not

come from an ideological place, but

almost bending to the Labour Party.

Freight and that they are breathing

down their necks. It shows a

government that has lost confidence.

You are nodding your head?

No? I was

just good to say I do not think

enough has been done to alleviate

fears of Universal Credit. Cardiff

food bank provided 14,500 people

last year. 5876 children. These

figures are expected to be rising by

30% across Cardiff in February next

year.

What is your reaction?

I think

the budget today is very pleasing. I

think the Chancellor has done a lot

to help young people across the

country. The abolition of the stamp

duty which is going to help 80% of

first time buyers. £44 billion

invested into home-building. The

objective of having 300,000 homes

built every year starting until the

mid 2020s. 2.8 billion invested into

the NHS. Regarding tax, we have that

the tax allowance raised to £11,850.

That is going to help the poorest in

society. Finally, the rail card

scheme.

Over to the politicians.

Joining me, Adam Price, as well as

the leader of Welsh Lib Dems, and

David Davis. We can start on that

point, stamp duty, the cut and

abolition of 300,000 going to shoot

prices up?

The Chancellor has made it clear,

the only way to bring down house

prices is to build lots more of

them. That means controlling the

numbers of population growth. We

have a growth in the population of

around 500,000 people a year. Unless

we can build housing, shops, roads,

factories, workplaces, for those

people, many of those coming into

this country. We will have a

problem. Also means building on

greenfield sites. Those people who

complain loudest about building on

greenfield sites are the first to

demand we have Brexit, open borders,

and welcome everyone into the

country.

I want to get round all of

you. You did not answer on stamp

duty. Would you expect the Welsh

government to do the same? It is the

bold, stamp duty?

Stamp duty will be

devolved next March. Wales has

already set the pace. We have

targeted announcements, the young

people trying to get in the housing

ladder will be given a helping hand

by the Welsh government, raising the

threshold of stamp duty up to

150,000.

The Westminster government

has gone further. Should the Welsh

government match them?

There are

some predictions today that the lift

of stamp duty in England will only

benefit 3500 people. £900,000 per

person. If these predictions are

true, it is a waste of money.

Let's

bring it back to the studio. £1.2

billion extra for the Welsh

government and Wales to spend. You

must welcome that, in Plaid Cymru?

It is smoke and mirrors. The

Scottish Government in the same

position, half the money has to be

back. Wales is getting given 200

million a year over three years.

The

Welsh Secretary said that is

rubbish.

Small builders in England

are getting more than we are getting

in Wales for the whole of society.

Anything good for Wales?

What they

could have done, an opportunity for

Wales, a country that deserves a

break. Deserves an opportunity. We

could start a new global industry.

Asking and pleading, putting the

case together, and we get more

delay. Let's look at North Wales,

this scheme. Not much detail.

Do you

welcome it? Absolutely, we welcome

anything looking at growth. To be

honest, the North Wales Grove deal

was announced in the spring. My

understanding is, there has not been

much progress. Pleased to see there

is a mid Wales Grove proposal. We

need action, a bigger picture. The

problem with this budget, did not

give a vision, talking about what

the future of Wales should look

like. That is really disappointing.

A real opportunity, and it was

missed.

Universal Credit, a big

headache for many people in Wales.

They are putting in 1.5 billion to

sort out what they make all teething

problems. Seven-day delay. Do you

welcome that?

I do think they can

take any credit for dealing with

mistakes they created in the first

place. The most glaring errors you

can expect. How could they expect

people on the bread line below it to

live for 4-6 weeks. You have to be

living a different planet. Civic

anything like that could work in the

first place. I don't think

spreadsheet Phil has any idea that

ordinary people and how they live.

Finally, David Davis, back to public

sector pay, why not lift the cap for

everybody in the public sector, he

missed a chance?

We have said we're

going to at that. Ultimately, what

we can do is go spend money we don't

have. We have been very clear about

this, we have to stop borrowing

money, live within our means. We

have raised the amount of money

we're spending overall. Increasing

the amount of money coming out of

the richest 1%. Spending more on the

National Health Service. We can do

that in Wales, that is up to their

Welsh assembly. Young people travel

cards, housing for first-time

buyers. £30 billion investment fund

to improve productivity. A lot of

good stuff in this budget.

Lots of

hands up, back to Jason. With the

greatest respect, we hear from

politicians every day. We don't hear

from our audience members every

single day. Angie, you have

travelled from Wrexham to be with us

in Cardiff. Let Hammond says this is

a budget fit for the future of

Britain.

The EU agree? What Philip

Hammond has done is demonstrate this

budget is not fit for now. All right

having plans the future, we have

heard them all. What is going to

happen in the future, the deficit

reduction. That is going to go one

until 2031. Real life is happening

now. A huge elephant in the room,

nobody is addressing it. The BMJ,

not a lefty think tank. They linked

120,000 deaths with government

austerity. Philip Hammond, Philip

Hammond, goes tinkering around the

edges. We have people sleeping in

shop doorways all over the country.

People dying in shop doorways. You

have queues of ambulances outside of

every A&E in the country. Year

people sitting at home waiting with

baited breath to find out if they

are going to be a lot of feed their

kids this Christmas. Philip Hammond

stands there, in the dispatch box,

cracking jokes. And thinking he is

some Hannah Jun please. David Davies

can hear you. What is your message,

the guitar Mr Hammond tomorrow when

he sees them at Westminster? Tell

him it is about time austerity

measures are stopped. The country is

on its knees. It is fed up of

austerity. Fed up of something which

is a political choice. You have

proven that to date. You have pulled

all these rabbits out of a hat. You

were tinkering.

It is a choice. It

is a choice we can make. Whether we

borrow money we don't have, adding

it to a debt of £1.7 trillion.

Whether we try to reduce that, at

some point pay off the debt. We have

cut a middle course. We could do

what you suggested early on, keep

paying off the deficit, keep

borrowing from that would mean

further cuts. The economy has grown

faster than we expected, we have

reduced the speed we pay back the

deficit. Ultimately you cannot spend

money you don't have. We borrowed

money for 50 billion each year,

adding it to a debt of 1.7 trillion,

which our children will have to pay.

One of the ways we could bring

ourselves out of the current

austerity would be to take the route

of technology, we have an incredible

workforce in Wales. The future,

certainly for disabled people, which

by the way a quarter of the

population of Wales are disabled

people. A huge amount. Technology,

driverless cars, I would love one of

those if I could possibly ever

afford one. Artificial intelligence.

I cannot imagine for one moment my

personal assistants could be

replaced by robot. In terms of

squeezing painters to my palate,

picking paint off the floor.

Jacob,

you want to talk about 5G.

Fantastic

concept, but lots of parts of Wales

cannot get earlier technologies. The

rural economy and without having

broadband, businesses cannot operate

in an efficient and effective

manner.

It is a necessity. People

are dying, people sleeping on the

streets. Is 5G our main concern,

driverless cars.

Quite compelling

argument.

Very compelling argument.

5G, is it necessary when they cannot

work or they have got in place?

Jamie, you have user feedback.

What

happened? I was a victim of

circumstance, my partner lost his

job, we were both full-time working

parents. He went the many

interviews, told he was

overqualified in some places, we

were destitute.

How can we talk

about driverless cars, will when

people are using food banks?

Exactly

the point. A case of investing in

technology, in areas, brilliant. You

need to sort other things affecting

people's day today lives. Without

thinking what is happening with this

future technology.

You have not

spoken, Alex.

Our firefighter. He

has given with one hand, taken with

another. Either public sector

worker, he is trying to have me by

my first time, but I'm a 1% pay cap

since I have entered the service.

How my going to buy a home? The

budget today has done nothing to

impact on people's working day

living lives. It has done little

bit, but not enough for me,

personally, as a retired person, the

only difference this budget has made

to me, some time, hopefully in the

future I will not have to pay the

tolls on the Severn Bridge.

About

technology, we need to use the

skills, put people back into work.

Like yourself, your partner,

presumably, who had great skill, but

could not get work.

Technology is

one area. You have been defending

the government, Mr Hammond. The

majority of this audience a pretty

disgruntled.

Important to remember

why we have austerity Britain. When

the Conservatives took over in 2010

after 13 years...

No, no.

We

inherited the biggest peacetime

deficit. In the history of this

nation. I think this budget is

incredibly positive.

You are not

experiencing it. This is what people

going to feedback.

14 out of 100

people attending the feedback last

year alone. People are dying.

This

budget was incredibly positive.

People that constantly run this

country down are wilfully incorrect.

Britain has potential.

It is the

people who run this country down.

Our friend Adriaan runs a pub, has

not spoken. I want him to leave the

studio happy. We will come to you,

Adrian, next. On the point of

austerity, we have had seven years

of it. Jane Dodds, you back

austerity, in Govan to time, it has

not worked.

Absolutely not. Not

something I would have supported at

all. We have to look at what is

happening with poor people. The

politicians have to be the voices of

people who do not have a voice. We

had to say loud and clear austerity

has not worked. We had to make sure

people on Universal Credit, we stop

Universal Credit. We heard from the

Welsh children's Commissioner about

how concerned she is about children

in Wales. We had to roll back, and

say we need to put money into the

economy, help and support people.

People struggling. Would you spend

more?

We have not had austerity for

very long, but double the national

debt. What we have is the wrong

priorities. Finding £40 billion to

pay the EU ransom demand. Spending

15 billion a year on foreign aid.

£80 billion over the next ten years

on NHS.

3 billion extra for Brexit?

Who knows whether that will be

needed. This is just to provide

against possibilities for the

future. Not cache that is going to

go into the economy. The government

has the wrong priorities. Tens of

billions of pounds that could be

redirected into quality programmes,

infrastructure investment, instead

it is going to foreign aid, paying

into the EU, nonsense projects like

HS2.

350 million will be coming to

the NHS after Brexit?

I hope we will

be able to substantially increase

the NHS budget.

What will that 3

billion for Brexit go on?

There was

a call for the Chancellor to ensure

the money was there, so if we pull

out of the European Union without

any sort of deal, the money is there

to setup the system is needed.

Straight forward, I work in haulage

before the single market, involve it

a few minutes of paperwork stamps.

Infrastructure will be needed. Quite

right we're doing this, some people

in the Main campaign don't realise

we are serious about this, we're

pulling out of the EU, I don't mind

when we politely deal or not. I will

be delighted whether we leave, most

people will compromise, as I will.

To reassure voters who voted to stay

in. Frustrating that so many people

in the European Parliament I talk

to, other MPs, telling me how we do

to get out of Brexit. They have this

arrogant view, the people who voted

for Brexit did not know what they're

doing, not the sort of people they

want to talk to, have around dinner.

There is an absolute atmosphere of

people who think they know best.

Good for Theresa May and Philip

Hammond for making it clear we are

serious about this, we're pulling

out, if we pull out without a deal

the money is there to set up what we

need to put in place.

You in the

chamber this afternoon from a pretty

gloomy picture presented future

growth in the economy. Does not look

good for the coming years. What do

you blame for that?

Do you blame

Brexit? The fear of Brexit among the

business community, when you look at

the indicators on growth and

productivity, the closer we get to

Brexit, the worse it looks. That has

had a negative effect. Can I just

come back to the point that David

May. Money set aside for Brexit. The

Chancellor has set aside 2.8 billion

for the National Health Service. It

was not supposed to be like this.

£350 million a week extra for the

National Health Service. Now we see

there is more going to Brexit, more

going to Brexit than the National

Health Service.

We have not pulled

out yet. When the problems, with all

due respect to Chris, people in the

Main campaign have not given up,

trying to keep us in, they're

whipping up the fear, creating a

sense in Brussels, if everyone

delays, we will change our minds. We

will not change our minds.

Let's be

clear, they Brexit for a second. We

are at a crisis point as in the

colony. We have had stagnant wages

for over a decade. In real terms

wages are going down. What people

have been doing, working longer and

longer hours. Wages per hour is

going down. That is unsustainable.

We had a major downgrade of the

economic forecast for growth. Every

decades as the 1970s, there has been

a recession. Things are bad now,

they are getting worse, what we

deserve from this Chancellor was a

transformational budget. A budget

that rose to the challenge of our

times, instead we got tinkering.

How

will it go down in history? Before

we returned back to our guests, a

quick trip down memory lane. The

Chancellor's breadbox is a historic

occasion was that we have our

stand-up comedian Lloyd Langford, to

dig up what this day has meant for

the people of Wales over the years.

Here is the brief history of the

budget.

Another annual budget has

been and gone. The day politicos

accountants and journalists gather

around to muse over the contents of

a red box. Without doubt the most

glamorous photo opportunity in the

world of government finance. This

year BBC Wales have given me the key

to the vault of archive material

from the budgets passed. What does

it all mean for people in Wales? The

word budget comes from the old

French word meaning little bag. A

French nobleman's leathery coin

purse. Not a euphemism. It is not

known when this budget term started

been used to describe government

spending plans. It is thought to be

around the 1720s. Frankly the BBC

footage from back then is rubbish.

Let's jump forward. In the 1970s

budget day was all a deals. Get your

electrical goods, before the

Chancellor put prices up. Sort of

like Black Friday, but people having

fights over plasma telly. You can

get deals like this, these fabulous

Mel Ards. Moving into the 1980s and

1990s. From what I can tell about

BBC Wales news footage. Our main

concern on budget day was the price

of booze and cigarettes. News

reporters flocked to pubs in their

droves. Everyone was dying to know,

what does the budget mean for

drinkers and smokers?

Another two p

on beer.

Working-class hit again.

Smuggled back beer from the channel.

When we're not worried about alcohol

and tobacco, our main concern is the

price of fuel. In rural Wales this

is no joke.

Driven off course by a

huge drop in oil prices. The

motorist will have to pay the price

of the pumps.

What impact will this

budget have on motorists in the

rural counties?

The motorist that is

after year after year with these

cuts. We can give up smoking and

drinking, we cannot give up our

motorcar.

If there is one thread

that runs all the way through my

brief budget history, it is that

Wales, at least according to itself,

gets hard done by.

For us in Wales a

budget of missed opportunities.

Nothing in this budget which would

help people in Wales.

Wales have the

rough end of the stick this time.

Remember if you are a drink your

smoker, homeowner, who drives a

large motor, tonight is the night to

drown your sorrows. Tomorrow, switch

to two wheels. BBC Wales today,

Westminster.

He has not changed a

bit. Still at the same bike. Now

then, spreadsheet Phil, how did he

do? Struggling Chancellor.

Did he do

that today? I have no idea about the

internal dynamics of the Tory party.

If the budget and Chancellor is

remembered for anything it is being

unmemorable.

Would you agree?

Absolutely, he should go. We need

someone with a vision, someone to do

the best they can.

He plays safe.

His biggest play was not to have bad

headlines tomorrow?

Will he achieve

that?

May be, it is dull, we need

something transformational.

Something forward-looking and

visionary.

We did not get that. A

point from the audience. Too many

jokes, these are serious times?

Absolutely. There are budgets which

other bellwethers of history. We

needed that kind of vision. We are

facing troubling times. Yet what we

got, I think was insubstantial, from

insubstantial figure.

Chris, spend,

spend, spend for Labour. John

McDonnell would get the cheque-book

out?

The key thing for Philip

Hammond, the key purpose of the

budget was to preserve his job. He

pulled out enough little rabbits out

of a hat probably to survive for the

next year. It did nothing to help

Britain in troubled times.

David

Davies, people like you will decide

his future. 18 Brexiteer. He is not

perhaps Brexit enough for you.

As

far as I'm concerned, he has

delivered £25 billion for business.

Supported local shops and

businesses. In England, hope that'll

happen in Wales. Severn Bridge fees

are down. The line to Cardiff will

go ahead. More money for the NHS.

Let's see whether Labour deliver

that in Wales. You are backing the

Chancellor. Doing in absolutely

superb job. Unemployment at the

lowest on record lows. Growth

continues. Everything is going very

well.

I don't think our audience

will agree. Going back to

politicians. Ageing is itching to

get in.

The publican. This budget

didn't nowhere near enough for pubs.

Vital to society. Pubs are the

community. There was a freeze on

beer duty, but we pay among the

highest in Europe on beer duty. Ten

times more than Germany, Spain. Yes

there was a rate relief of an extra

thousand pounds for the next year.

On average, rates in pubs in Wales

have gone up £800. This budget was

saying we're not going to make

things worse, that is what the

budget said.

With the greatest

respect to pub landlords and

farmers, stop moaning, diversify.

To

be honest with you, you are saying,

Welsh farmers, at the forefront of

diversification. Only so many of us

can diversify. 61% food,

self-sufficient. Food security needs

to be at the forefront of everything

moving forward. If you don't have

food for me don't.

I would like to

defend Philip Hammond the spending

on the research. The UK deserves

more money to spend on research.

People come to the UK because for

years it has been at the forefront

of research and development. With

the new spending the budget we will

catch up with the rest of the world.

The US and Germany. Leave the

spending extra money on research and

develop them.

I wish we had so much

more time. Absolutely wonderful,

thank you to stop sorry I could not

get your final point. We will be

back next week in the same time,

same place. Thanks to all our guests

and youth are watching. From all of

us, good night.