21/03/2012 Budget


21/03/2012

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It is 11.30am on Wednesday, 21st March. It is Budget Day. This is

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the scene above Downing Street. We have live coverage as the

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Chancellor prepares to open the red box. Stand by for some bold moves,

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we're told on taxation and plenty of debate on how to revive the

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:00:32.:00:51.

British economy. I suppose there is probably one

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dominant question today beyond the detail on tax and spending and

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borrowing, how will this Budget get the economy growing more strongly?

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That's the question. George Osborne will unveil his measure in about an

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hour's time. Lots them, it has to be said, have been widely trailed

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and he said that he wants to target help at those people on low and

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middle incomes. Let's look in Downing Street because we are

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expecting the Chancellor to appear on the steps of Number Eleven in

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the traditional pre-Budget scene any moment really. So we will be

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there for when that happens and he will be flanked, of course, by

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Danny Alexander and the other key treasury ministers as they make

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their way to the Palace of Westminster on this Budget Day. So

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back in Downing Street in just a few seconds time. Of course, we

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will have live live coverage of the speech and of Labour's response.

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Before that at noon, it is Wednesday, we will have Prime

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Minister's Questions and to guide us throughout we will have our own

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experts with me in the studio and more besides.

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I am outside Parliament talking to politicians of all stripes. Getting

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their assessment of the big Budget announcements and how the

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Chancellor's statement will affect the political landscape.

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I'm I'm on the factory floor at Pashley Cycles in Stratford-Upon-

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Avon and I will be finding out what local businesses want to hear in

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today's Budget. On on a trading floor in the City,

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gauging the reaction from the stock, the bon and currency -- bond and

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Here is a pledge, we will have coverage and we will have the best

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analysis. With me is the BBC's political editor, Nick Robinson.

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Our economics editor, Stephanie Flanders and our business editor,

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Robert Peston. More from you in a few minutes. Earlier this morning,

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the Business Secretary, Vince Cable, was at a -- who has had a lot to

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stay about the Budget and what he would like to see, he was telling

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us on his way to Parliament, his party's priority was to help those

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on on lower incomes. The Liberal Democrats have pushed

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very hard to lift low earners out of tax and help hard-pressed middle

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income families. That's our priority. The Budget has to be

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judged against the extent to which it contributes to Britain's

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recovery from this dreadful economic crisis.

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It will be interested to judge the Budget by what some of Mr Cable's

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apparent demands were in the last few weeks. Ed Miliband the Labour

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leader on his way to Parliament telling us for him it was about

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jobs and growth. The Government's economic plan is

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failing. What we need today is action to get jobs and growth

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moving in this country and what the Chancellor must do is ensure that

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any money he can raise from those at the top is spend on helping

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millions of ordinary families who are struggling to get by. It would

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be the wrong priority to cut taxes for the richest people in Britain

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earning over �150,000 a year in a top rate of tax, income tax cut.

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Ed Miliband with thoughts before he Nick Robinson is with me. Nick, I

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ask you about the main thrust of the Budget and what we are

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expecting, maybe we can keep an eye on Number Eleven Downing Street to

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see what is going on there because the door will open in a minute or

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so. We will keep an eye on that, Nick. What will be the big theme?

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Well, it would be tempting for the Chancellor to stand up and I say,

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"I refer members to the announcements made in the media

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some hours ago." The Prime Minister uses that formula when he is asked

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the same question. There is a lot of detail about how he pays for the

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tax cuts that we have heard of, personal tax allowance, top rate of

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tax tax, where he gets the money from in order to be able to do that.

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He will want to present it as a series of tax cuts who help people

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who work hard and earn, but he will say that more money is being spent

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on people in the mid-ling and people -- middle and people in the

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top. Labour will say every pound is a pound you could have spent on

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someone else even if you managed to get the money to pay from other

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rich battle. How much of a battle has it been? On a lot of the stuff

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they agree. On the personal tax allowance which gives you more

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money before you pay income tax, the Tories and the Lib Dems have

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different ways, but they agree that is a good route. On the top rate of

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tax, George Osborne wanted to do it because he promised the Lib Dems

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are not keen, but they never stuck their heels in. What they were

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fighting about what is what what they got back in return. How if you

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are the the Tories do we patch it up in a way that looks like it will

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help growth. It has been more about that than a row about you can't do

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this and you mustn't do that. We will join Stephanie soon to talk

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about growth. When he steps out and knows that he

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is going to have to sell this to lots of people who will be

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sceptical about the content and the political motivation behind it,

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what is the narrative going to be for the Chancellor? Reform. What he

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wants to do is do what negligentle Lawson did when he was Margaret

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Thatcher's chancellor. He wants to say in that red box outside is the

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Budget is the secret to making the tax system, simpler and fairer.

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The Chancellor proudly brandishing the red box. Danny Alexander

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someone of the so-called quad of ministers who has been in charge of

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directing the negotiations a very, very important task they have had.

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As everyone agrees, even owe pone poneants this -- opponents this

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Budget will have a big impact on the health of the British economy

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going forward next year. When you look at the growth figures which

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have been feeble for lots of the quarters involved, it is really a

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big question about whether this package of measures, not just the

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taxing, but what he is doing on spending and the levels of

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borrowing, whether that package will lead to healthier growth and

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more jobs for people. As the Chancellor makes his way to

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the House of Commons, I will bring Stephanie Flanders in. Whatever

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individual measures the Chancellor announces in the the Budget,

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everything being driven by the need to reduce Government borrowing

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because that's been such a huge concern. Stephanie, tell us where

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we stand on that? What does that look like? We are not far along in

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filling that big hole in the public finances as the the Chancellor

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hoped he would be when he had his first Budget in June 2010. We are

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not as far along as many would think, at least when it comes to

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spending cuts. If you look at the first two years of George Osborne's

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If you go to the full seven years of austerity that we are looking at

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and remember it was five years, it was at the Pre-Budget Report in

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November that we ended up with an extra couple of years, all the

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spending cuts still to come. Overall, we are looking at 80% of

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the austerity if you like is coming from spending cuts. Only 20% from

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tax rises most of which we have had. We have only had 12% of the

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spending cuts we're going to have. We have had the reversal of the

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stimulus spending, but in terms of long-term spending cuts, only 12%.

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A lot more to go. This is the toughest period for public spending

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since the war. We We should remember the Gordon Brown era after

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:09:11.:09:19.

2004 was the period of fastest growth since the war.

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Back back to June 2010, duren George Osborne thought he would

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have rapid reduction in Government borrowing and he could count on the

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private sector, on the rest of the world to fill the gap. Go back to

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ancient history, it feels like a boom now, 2007, growth was looking

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strong. It was the strongest in four years, but then we had the

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banking crisis. We had the deepest recession in 2008 that we have had

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since the 1920s and right into 2009, we were only starting to recover in

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2009, 2010 when George Osborne came in, we were looking at what we

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thought was a mediocre recovery until that last quarter of 2010

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when we had the fall in national output which turned out out to be

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not necessarily a blip. 2011, a feeble year. Disappointing compared

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to what we were expecting. We knew it wasn't going to be a normal

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:10:28.:10:30.

The gap at the end there. 2012 - what was that look like? It may go

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up a little bit. 0.7% is what they said in November. We may see it go

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up to 0.8%. A year ago, they were expecting 2.5%. This is a much

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weaker picture and that limits George Osborne's room for manoeuvre.

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With all of that in mind, Robert, how do you see it? What do you

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expect today which will change this picture, if anything? Plainly I

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will look at how this affects the confidence of businesses. They will

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be very interested on what happens on corporation tax. We have seen

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some plans from the Chancellor for some pretty sustained cuts in the

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rates of corporation tax. There has been speculation he might do more.

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That will be interesting to see if he does do more on that.

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Many of those who run companies will be cheered by this cut in the

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top rate of income tax. It will not go down well with everybody. For me

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personally, I am fascinated to see what the Office for Budget

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Responsibility says that will cost. Obviously, at a time when resources

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are very scarce, if it turns out to be a lot of money, that will

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massively fuel the political battle. If it turns out to be a tiny amount

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of money, in their view, it will be interesting to see how Labour

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responds. So, a huge amount, really, to get one's teeth into. The other

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side of it, which I know only affects a few thousand people,

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particularly in London and the southeast, but these are famous

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footballing superstars, hedge fund managers and the rest - I am

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fascinated to see, not so much the rise in stamp duty. We know from

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the leaks that it is going up to 7% on houses worth more than two

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:12:36.:12:37.

Thank you. Throughout the programme we will be

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getting reaction, of course, from people Robert is talking about,

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business people and others and today we are in Stratford-Upon-Avon

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to talk to people there about their hopes and then their response and

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my colleague, Jo Coburn is there for us.

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Thank you very much, Huw. I am here on the factory floor. Everybody

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working around me. This company is based in Stratford-Upon-Avon in the

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heart of the Midlands. They have been making bikes since 1926. The

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company prides itself on assembling bikes from start to finish,

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sourcing most of the components locally. This saddle came from

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Birmingham and the wheel manufactured in West Bromwich. To

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talk about that is the managing director, Adrian Williams and with

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him is Annabel Mc Mahon. Welcome. We have talked before and

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you have said that manufacturing is doing all right, but there is a

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:13:41.:13:59.

problem with confidence in the And that's stopping people spending

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a fair bit of money on a bike? There has been too much negativity

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and we need to go back to positivity and they will start

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buying bikes again. Now one of your concerns Annabel,

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you employ two people, both of of whom were on benefits and you said

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the process was a nightmare, why? It just seemed to me that the

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process is working against them rather than for them. They They to

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ring up and go through hoops and both said it would be easier to

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stay at home and carry on taking the benefits, but they are good

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employees and they wanted to get into the workplace. We are a

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growing business and we needed them and we have worked it out, but I

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was horrified at how difficult it was.

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Is work paying for them or are they not earning anymore than they were

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on benefits? They are earning about the same. It is not incentivising

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them to get into the workplace and we really need them. It is so wrong

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that the system is geared up towards everybody staying at home

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when people want to get back into the workplace.

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Is that one of the reasons that actually growth is very difficult,

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taking on new staff, Steve? It is. In my case, it is probably

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the technical skills that aren't available. The skills are something

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that's been an issue for sometime now. We need apprentices, we have

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got them, but it is complex and I find if you look at a company's

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size, be it a PLC or a microbusiness, the situation is

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very different with each company. The help they need. The finance

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they need. Cutting through the regulation necessary to get the

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apprentices, those are the issues we have.

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What What about on the financial side? Are you getting credit? Are

:15:44.:15:48.

banks lending to you? The access to finance is a difficult thing. They

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say they are, there are new initiatives, but the complexity of

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them and whether they are targeted to the home market, I can get some

:15:54.:16:01.

help now on my overseas export, on the export market. There are some

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credit guarantee schemes that would help you get the finance, but

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access to finance for your working capital has stopped us growing and

:16:10.:16:20.
:16:20.:16:22.

The previous experience we had was when they brought the last scheme

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in, we went to our bank and said "What about the Government-

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supported scheme?" they said, "We don't do that." Thank you. Let's

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speak to our expert. Thank you for coming to the programme. You are

:16:39.:16:44.

the presenter of Money Box on Radio 4. We heard there particular

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difficulties of getting access to finance. What are the options?

:16:48.:16:52.

think he'll do something. He wants an enterprise Budget. None of the

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briefs have been about that. I think he'll surprise us. One option

:16:57.:17:04.

would be if wealth I -- welty people wanted to help, they could

:17:04.:17:07.

get interest on that loan. That would be different from the scheme

:17:08.:17:12.

we have at the moment. That interface, that was being spoken

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about between work and jobs, it's so important to get that right, so

:17:16.:17:21.

people on benefits who want to go into work, they can make that

:17:21.:17:25.

transition easily, from an employer's and employee point of

:17:25.:17:28.

view. The expectation is of those people providing that growth and

:17:28.:17:32.

taking those people on. Yes. Small businesses are one of the biggest

:17:32.:17:37.

recruiters of people. They want people to go into work and get off

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benefits, or off some benefits. People are desperate for work.

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us before we go how people can get in touch with the programme? They

:17:45.:17:54.

can go to the BBC News website and click on "Budget Live." They can

:17:54.:18:04.

Texas or Tweet us. Yes, get on Tweeting and texting. Now back to

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you. Thank you. Plenty more business to come to Jo

:18:10.:18:15.

and her colleagues. You can follow the coverage not just on the TV,

:18:15.:18:25.
:18:25.:18:29.

You can send comments via the BBC website. You can take part in the

:18:30.:18:33.

conversation on Twitter. You can spot the comments there, add your

:18:33.:18:36.

own comments too. You are very welcome to do that. In the mean

:18:36.:18:44.

time, we are keeping tabs on what they are saying in the financial

:18:44.:18:47.

quarter of London. Hello. I am at Rabobank. Remember

:18:47.:18:51.

at the time of the Autumn Statement, the Euro-debt crisis was raging.

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There's been a lull in the storm, but the UK economy is struggling,

:18:57.:19:00.

with very sluggish growth and high unemployment. What is the City

:19:00.:19:05.

expecting from this Budget? Let's speak to Jane, a senior strategist

:19:05.:19:11.

here. The City does not like surprises, does it? It does not.

:19:11.:19:15.

are looking for measures to support growth? The whole of Europe has

:19:15.:19:21.

been a key theme for this year. Parts of Europe will suffer a deep

:19:21.:19:25.

recession. It seems the UK is likely to avoid a double dip

:19:25.:19:28.

recession. Things are stabilising this year. With respect to this

:19:28.:19:32.

Budget, the Chancellor's hands are tied. Our debt situation, deficit

:19:32.:19:37.

situation is likely to keep him on a course of austerity. We still

:19:37.:19:40.

have monetary policy. There have been expectations that the Bank of

:19:40.:19:46.

England could do more. This morning, we saw sterling go up. This is

:19:46.:19:50.

going up against the our euro. The minutes suggested there could be

:19:50.:19:57.

more on the cards. One of the ways to promote growth, it is thought,

:19:58.:20:03.

is possibly tax cuts. Let's speak to a City analyst. Do you think the

:20:03.:20:08.

tax cuts proposed, trailed are going to help promote growth?

:20:08.:20:13.

think they might, but slowly. If we look for rapid changes, not likely.

:20:13.:20:18.

If we have a one or two year change, then it might help in getting the

:20:18.:20:23.

economy moving. That means getting younger people into employment?

:20:23.:20:27.

have an unbelievable young people who don't have jobs. I have not

:20:27.:20:32.

heard anything as to how we will get them into jobs. The only way we

:20:32.:20:36.

will be able to do that is to get people to spend more money, to buy

:20:36.:20:39.

new cookers, buy new cars. The economy is not at a state where we

:20:39.:20:43.

can do that. Thank you. I know you will watch closely the Chancellor's

:20:43.:20:49.

speech. We are expecting those tax cuts and on the other, those

:20:49.:20:52.

sticking the austerity plan. A lot of people here will watch closely

:20:52.:20:56.

to see how those numbers add up. Back to you.

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Thank you. We will be back with you in a short while. Susannah Streeter

:21:00.:21:05.

there. If you have just joined us here on BBC Two and the BBC News

:21:05.:21:09.

channel, welcome, you are watching our special coverage of Budget Day

:21:09.:21:13.

at Westminster. More guests outside Parliament, this time with Jon

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Sopel. We know a lot about what is in

:21:16.:21:20.

today's Budget, thanks to plenty of advanced leaks, or is it a briefing,

:21:20.:21:25.

we should call it, from the Government? I will discuss some of

:21:25.:21:30.

the expected measures in a moment with MPs from the three major

:21:30.:21:34.

parties we asked the director of the institute for fiscal studys to

:21:34.:21:38.

set out the options available to Chancellor Osborne to get the

:21:38.:21:48.

There's only one direction that any Chancellor wants the economy

:21:48.:21:56.

travelling in - the route to growth. There are plenty of levers he can

:21:56.:22:00.

put. There is tax, spending or legislation. Get the combination

:22:00.:22:07.

right and we could be on the fast- track to growth.

:22:07.:22:11.

Changing tax rates is a way the Chancellor can control the economy.

:22:11.:22:15.

For individuals, cutting the amount of money collected through income

:22:15.:22:19.

tax, national insurance and VAT can encourage us to spend more, pumping

:22:19.:22:23.

more cash back into the economy. For businesses, reducing the amount

:22:23.:22:27.

of corporate and business taxes and free up more money to higher staff,

:22:27.:22:30.

helping more people back into work. The Chancellor needs to make sure

:22:30.:22:36.

to keep enough money coming in, to keep services we rely on to keep

:22:36.:22:40.

running and reduce our deficit. The sweeping cuts mean big costly

:22:40.:22:45.

spending plans are unlikely to appear in this Budget.

:22:45.:22:50.

Spending money on big building projects can put money into

:22:50.:22:53.

construction jobs and in the long- term it can help the way we do

:22:53.:22:57.

business in the UK. He needs to be careful though, because any

:22:57.:23:01.

loosening of the purse stranges could make it more costly for the

:23:01.:23:06.

Government to finance its borrowing. Changing the rules we have to

:23:06.:23:12.

follow on jobs and welfare can influence the route we take.

:23:12.:23:17.

Reducing employment regulations can have an impact in the medium-term,

:23:17.:23:22.

encouraging businesses to employ more people, which makes taking on

:23:22.:23:27.

staff less of a liability. Businesses get rid of workers when

:23:27.:23:31.

the going gets tough. It is a brave Chancellor who is willing to

:23:31.:23:35.

takeaway employment rights. Rules on welfare and benefits can make a

:23:35.:23:43.

difference to the bill the country pays for, things like child benefit.

:23:43.:23:50.

Keeping the economy on the right track is a complex game. Economies

:23:50.:23:55.

travelling alongside us threatening to derail us all together. What

:23:55.:24:00.

levers will the Chancellor pull? Every rail met for there, exploited

:24:00.:24:04.

to the full. In one respect this is a perfectly normal Budget Day,

:24:04.:24:09.

because a group of protestors have arrived, which you can hear in the

:24:09.:24:15.

background, shouting "Tax the banks, not the poor."

:24:15.:24:20.

I am now joined by three guests. Welcome to you all. While we have

:24:21.:24:24.

this noise in the background, you are comfortable are you to be

:24:24.:24:28.

cutting the top rate of tax? I am comfortable they will charge the

:24:28.:24:31.

rich more than we are doing. My aim this day, let's see what the

:24:31.:24:36.

Chancellor comes up with, is that those 1% of people who currently

:24:36.:24:41.

pay the 50p rate they should pay more after today's Budget. Why cut

:24:41.:24:45.

the tax rate? I don't know why the Tories want to do that. It is

:24:45.:24:48.

something they want to do. My concern is for the 23 million

:24:48.:24:53.

people, the bottom end they should get a cut. You are in coalition

:24:53.:24:56.

with them. It is a compromise Budget. The end result will be the

:24:56.:24:59.

rich will pay more in tax after today than they do now. And the

:24:59.:25:03.

poor will be paying less than they do now. That's because the Liberal

:25:03.:25:08.

Democrats have been trying to achieve. The Tories want to posture

:25:08.:25:12.

towards that 1% of the richest people. We want to help the 23

:25:12.:25:17.

million least well paid. If that is the critique you are getting from

:25:17.:25:21.

coalition partners, you will have a hell of a job. I am getting it from

:25:21.:25:25.

Tim. What the Budget is about is what this group of supporters are

:25:25.:25:29.

calling for. We are taxing the banks at the highest level. We will

:25:29.:25:36.

have the biggest tax give away for the middle and lower earning people.

:25:36.:25:41.

On 50p it was a temporary tax. It is a bad tax. I hope we will get

:25:41.:25:46.

data which shows it was a political gesture which sends out a terrible

:25:46.:25:50.

signal. This Budget must show that Britain is open for business.

:25:50.:25:54.

Without growth we don't dig our way out of the borrowing disaster.

:25:54.:26:02.

are shaking your head in horror. High? Because Clare said we are in

:26:02.:26:05.

it all together. It is not just a question of being out of touch, it

:26:05.:26:08.

is about treating people as if they are fools. People are angry for

:26:08.:26:12.

very good reasons. They have to pay enormous amounts for petrol. They

:26:12.:26:17.

have to pay higher VAT. Their food bills are going up. Their real

:26:17.:26:22.

wages are falling. At a time like this it is appalling to be cutting

:26:22.:26:27.

that 50p rate. Hang on, I will ask you this. Will you commit yourself

:26:27.:26:31.

to overturning it? If we were having the Budget today we would

:26:31.:26:36.

not be cutting the 50p rate. We have three years before we get

:26:36.:26:41.

to the next election. It is impossible.... Labour won't

:26:41.:26:48.

reinstate the tax. OK. Ling -- I tell you what, we will leave it

:26:48.:26:52.

here. Thank you very much indeed. Back to you in the studio.

:26:53.:26:56.

Full marks for trying. Full marks to your guests as well for trying.

:26:56.:27:02.

There you go - that is a very vivid illustration of the fact this

:27:02.:27:05.

Budget is provoking intense debate because there are some very

:27:05.:27:09.

important, central decisions to be made. If you have just joined us,

:27:09.:27:12.

it is coming up to midday here on BBC Two and the BBC News channel.

:27:12.:27:16.

In a moment, we will cross live to the House of Commons, because it is

:27:16.:27:23.

Prime Minister's Questions. It will follow the session of questions

:27:23.:27:27.

going on now. Perhaps it is a good idea to remind ourselves of some of

:27:27.:27:31.

the things we have been led to expect in the Chancellor's Budget,

:27:31.:27:36.

which starts in half an hour. A lot of trails, a lot of leaks in the

:27:36.:27:40.

media. We have noted that. We have a good idea about at least some of

:27:40.:27:43.

what is planned. We think Mr Osborne is set to raise the point

:27:43.:27:47.

at which people start to pay income tax. The coalition's aim is clear,

:27:48.:27:52.

it wants to get it up to �10,000 eventually. We will see the

:27:52.:27:56.

progress. We need to know how the Chancellor will pay for any change.

:27:56.:28:01.

These are expensive. There is an expectation he'll scrap the 50p tax

:28:01.:28:09.

rate on earnings above �150,000. Suggestions it could be cut to 45p.

:28:09.:28:13.

We will see what is said. A hard one to sell, of course, because

:28:13.:28:17.

he'll need to show that the Budget is taking money from the well off

:28:17.:28:21.

in other ways, we could see something like Nick Clegg's tycoon

:28:21.:28:24.

tax. That is looking less likely now. That is to say a minimum rate

:28:25.:28:29.

for the wealthiest. There could be a new 7% stamp duty rate on

:28:30.:28:32.

properties costing more than �2 million.

:28:32.:28:37.

As well as new curbs on tax avoidance. We will look for any

:28:37.:28:43.

tweaks to take child benefit away from high earners from next January.

:28:43.:28:47.

An adjustment expected there. Nick is with me. Robert and Stephanie

:28:47.:28:52.

too. We will have time to set the scene before Prime Minister's

:28:52.:28:58.

Questions. Traditionally they will not touch on the substance of any

:28:58.:29:02.

Budget matters. A thought about this tax rate. I suspect it will be

:29:02.:29:07.

one of the biggest headlines - clearly. The Labour predicament is

:29:07.:29:11.

interesting. What are they likely to do in response? In advance they

:29:11.:29:17.

have kept saying it is the wrong priority to give money back to the

:29:17.:29:21.

richest and not those who need it. Why is George Osborne doing it when

:29:21.:29:26.

he has a sound bite from his own leader from Prime Minister that we

:29:26.:29:32.

are "all in it together." He will send a signal to people to set up

:29:32.:29:36.

businesses in this country. When Alistair Darling announced the 50p

:29:36.:29:41.

tax rate, he said it was a bad thing to do long term. George

:29:41.:29:46.

Osborne will say, what will you do? Will you reverse this? Are you in

:29:46.:29:54.

stpaivour of what you are saying? - - favour of what you are saying?

:29:54.:29:59.

If it's not costing him a lot to do, is this ideological, you are now

:29:59.:30:04.

against rich people. So there is a lot of politics today. The economic

:30:04.:30:09.

numbers don't change that much. A lot of politics. It is like Budgets

:30:09.:30:19.
:30:19.:30:29.

I'm just wondering if the Speaker will take another question. He is

:30:29.:30:33.

taking another question. So, let's just get a thought from you, Robert

:30:33.:30:39.

Peston. Well, there are a couple of interesting things to say. One is,

:30:39.:30:43.

now that we have got this battleground over the top rate of

:30:43.:30:48.

tax, it will be interesting to see whether one of the laws of politics

:30:48.:30:53.

over the past 30 years has changed. The presumption was always that you

:30:53.:30:56.

could not win an election saying that you were going to put up

:30:56.:31:00.

income tax. So what will be fascinating. We will have to stop

:31:00.:31:07.

you there, I'm afraid. This morning, I had ministerial -- meetings with

:31:07.:31:10.

ministerial colleagues and others. I shall have further such meetings

:31:10.:31:16.

later today. Small Business is concerned about the culture in this

:31:16.:31:20.

country. Does the Prime Minister agree with me that the example

:31:20.:31:26.

should be set from the top, and that those who have a sick day and

:31:26.:31:30.

then go to a football match in a Rolls Royce are setting a very bad

:31:30.:31:34.

example indeed? My Right Honourable Friend makes an important point. We

:31:34.:31:38.

do have a problem of a sick note culture. I have to report, Mr

:31:38.:31:43.

Speaker, the problem can sometimes go to the very top. The Leader of

:31:43.:31:46.

the Opposition was meant to be addressing a health rally, called

:31:46.:31:53.

in sick, and three hours later was that a Hull football match. I think

:31:53.:31:56.

the question is, as well as knowing the miracle cure, the question

:31:56.:32:00.

would be, what was it that first attracted him to the multi-

:32:00.:32:10.
:32:10.:32:14.

millionaire owner of the football club in Hull? Mr Speaker, following

:32:14.:32:19.

the Prime Minister's recent trip to Washington, we now know that the

:32:19.:32:22.

timetable for the withdrawal of British forces in Afghanistan will

:32:22.:32:26.

be reviewed at the NATO summit in Chicago in May. The Prime Minister

:32:26.:32:30.

has previously set out a timetable that would see combat operations

:32:30.:32:35.

for British troops seizing by the end of 2014. Given the recent

:32:35.:32:39.

statement by the US Secretary of State for Defence and the French

:32:39.:32:43.

President about an accelerated timetable for their troops, can the

:32:43.:32:46.

Prime Minister confirm the British Government's position? Let me take

:32:46.:32:51.

this opportunity, on behalf of the House, to once again pay tribute to

:32:51.:32:55.

the magnificent work done by our Armed Forces in Afghanistan. We had

:32:55.:32:59.

another reminder yesterday of the very high price that we pay. In

:32:59.:33:02.

terms of the programme for withdrawal, what I have said is

:33:02.:33:07.

that we will not be in a combat role in Afghanistan after 2014, nor

:33:07.:33:11.

will we have anything like the number of troops that we have now.

:33:11.:33:16.

We will be performing a training task, particularly helping with the

:33:16.:33:21.

training academy. It is important that we have a sensible profile for

:33:21.:33:25.

the reduction in troop numbers, which should be largely based on

:33:25.:33:30.

the conditions in the three parts of Helmand province which we are

:33:30.:33:34.

still responsible for. What I discussed with President Obama was

:33:34.:33:39.

making sure that in 2013, if there are opportunities to change the

:33:39.:33:43.

nature of the mission, and be more in support rather than in a direct

:33:43.:33:47.

combat role, then I think that is something everyone will want to see.

:33:47.:33:54.

We can make further progress on that issue in Chicago. I thank the

:33:54.:33:58.

Prime Minister for that answer, and I know he will keep the House

:33:58.:34:05.

informed of any change in the British position. I'm sure he will

:34:05.:34:09.

also agree that in the wake of the tragic killing of Afghan civilians

:34:09.:34:19.
:34:19.:34:21.

last week, it is something we all abhor, but we must carry on with

:34:21.:34:25.

our mission. President Karzai has said that international troops

:34:25.:34:29.

should be confined to their bases, but does the Prime Minister agree

:34:29.:34:33.

with me that while the troops are there, they must be able to perform

:34:33.:34:37.

that role of protecting the Afghan population. Can he tell us what

:34:37.:34:40.

discussions he has had with President Karzai about the impact

:34:40.:34:47.

of any possible change in our role in that country? Our teams are in

:34:47.:34:51.

permanent contact, and I speak to President Karzai regularly. What

:34:51.:34:54.

happened in Afghanistan, with the dreadful shootings which were

:34:55.:35:01.

carried out by the American soldier, is a dreadful event, it was a mass

:35:01.:35:04.

murder, and it must be dealt with as such. I know that President

:35:04.:35:08.

Obama takes that view as well. In terms of making sure that we work

:35:08.:35:12.

with the Afghans, the key is to make sure that we transition into

:35:12.:35:16.

three parts of Helmand for which we are responsible, and that we hand

:35:16.:35:20.

over to Afghan troops, and that they are in the lead as soon as

:35:20.:35:25.

they are capable. I do not have any concerns at the moment about the

:35:25.:35:29.

role of British troops, they're able to carry out the tasks which

:35:29.:35:33.

they have been allotted. We are making good progress in the three

:35:33.:35:42.

parts of Helmand. But transition is a process, and we should be trying

:35:42.:35:50.

to make the most of the transition. I know he agrees with me that

:35:50.:35:52.

dialogue with President Karzai and his representatives is very

:35:52.:35:57.

important on this issue. A few days ago, the Taliban took the decision

:35:57.:36:02.

to suspend talks with the United States. In the light of this, can

:36:02.:36:05.

the Prime Minister tell the House what his assessment of the

:36:05.:36:09.

significance of this is, and does he agree with me that we await to

:36:09.:36:13.

our troops in Afghanistan to be much more urgently focused on the

:36:13.:36:16.

task of securing a lasting political settlement? Can he tell

:36:16.:36:20.

us how the British Government plans to play its role in getting the

:36:20.:36:25.

political process re-started. thank him for that question, it is

:36:25.:36:28.

vitally important that we get this right. The last government took the

:36:28.:36:32.

same view, that the British position has always been that we

:36:32.:36:36.

need to have a political settlement, in order to make sure we get the

:36:36.:36:39.

best possible outcome for the people of Afghanistan. Britain has

:36:39.:36:43.

been pushing for political reconciliation and reintegration,

:36:43.:36:47.

and I have had very productive talks with President Obama on this,

:36:47.:36:50.

because the American view is the same, they want to support the

:36:51.:36:54.

political process. But of course, the Taliban have said what they

:36:54.:36:59.

said last week, and I would make his point - we're committed to

:36:59.:37:02.

handing over to the Afghan Government, the Afghan military,

:37:02.:37:05.

the Afghan police, and the numbers of Afghan military and police are

:37:05.:37:10.

on track - we committed to doing that at the end of 2014. We believe

:37:10.:37:15.

that can happen, even without a political settlement, with a

:37:15.:37:18.

satisfactory outcome for the United Kingdom. But clearly it would be

:37:18.:37:21.

better for everyone if it was accompanied by a political

:37:21.:37:25.

settlement. The work for that, including setting up a Taliban

:37:25.:37:29.

political office, is progressing well. I believe it is in everyone's

:37:29.:37:32.

interest that we keep pushing the agenda, but the Taliban should be

:37:33.:37:35.

in no doubt, there are opportunities for a political

:37:35.:37:40.

settlement if they give up violence, renounce Al-Qaeda and want to play

:37:40.:37:43.

a part in the future of politics in Afghanistan. If they do not take

:37:43.:37:46.

those steps, we will continue to defeat them on the battlefield

:37:46.:37:51.

every time they raise their head. know that the Prime Minister will

:37:51.:37:55.

agree that the air ambulance is a fantastic charity, which enjoys

:37:55.:38:00.

support across the whole House. A typical branch needs to raise

:38:00.:38:05.

around �5 million a year, and yet can only claim gift Aid on about 5%

:38:05.:38:09.

of that - will he help make it easier for charities to get the

:38:09.:38:15.

gift aid which they are due? Let me join him in paying tribute to the

:38:15.:38:21.

air ambulance, they do an amazing job. We're providing �3 billion a

:38:21.:38:26.

year in tax reliefs for charities, of which gift Aid makes up around

:38:26.:38:30.

�1 billion. We are increasing the amount that charities are allowed

:38:30.:38:40.
:38:40.:38:43.

to claim on without the need for a declaration, taking it up to �5,000.

:38:43.:38:46.

When the Disability Minister came to Wales last week, she said it was

:38:46.:38:54.

for others to consider whether budgets should be devolved to Wales.

:38:55.:38:59.

I think when she said others, she meant you, Prime Minister. The

:38:59.:39:09.
:39:09.:39:11.

Welsh Government has already said it is committed to supporting the

:39:11.:39:15.

Remploy budget in Wales. We knew there for devolve that budget in

:39:15.:39:20.

order to make sure that those factories can have a future? I will

:39:20.:39:28.

look carefully at the proposal. It has been put forward in a

:39:28.:39:33.

constructive spirit. But whether this decision is reserved or

:39:33.:39:37.

devolved, it does not actually mean you do not have to take difficult

:39:37.:39:42.

decisions. The fact is, we did ask the chief executive of Disability

:39:42.:39:47.

Rights UK to look at this issue, and the outcome which she came up

:39:47.:39:53.

with has been supported by many organisations, and the point is

:39:53.:39:57.

that government funding allows for half a billion pounds over five

:39:57.:40:00.

years for Remploy, but even that is not enough to keep those factories

:40:01.:40:09.

open. The reason for that is, while Access to Work awards are around

:40:09.:40:13.

�2,900 per disabled person, the cost of each job in Remploy is

:40:13.:40:17.

around �25,000 per person. So, if the aim of policy is to use the

:40:17.:40:20.

money that we have to support getting disabled people into work,

:40:20.:40:26.

you can understand why the review came to the decision it did.

:40:26.:40:34.

last few weeks have seen the start of the �350 million construction of

:40:34.:40:38.

Jaguar Land Rover's new engine plant in my constituency. Does my

:40:38.:40:40.

Right Honourable Friend agree that this is a sign of growing

:40:40.:40:44.

confidence and belief in British manufacturing, which is in stark

:40:44.:40:47.

contrast to the destruction wrought on it by the last Labour

:40:47.:40:53.

government? My Right Honourable Friend makes an important point,

:40:53.:40:57.

the Jaguar Land Rover news is excellent news for the West

:40:57.:41:00.

Midlands, excellent news for British manufacturing and car-

:41:00.:41:05.

making. What is happening in the car industry is not confined to

:41:05.:41:10.

Jaguar Land Rover. If you look at Honda, Nissan, Toyota, they are all

:41:11.:41:13.

expanding across our country, which is great news for British

:41:13.:41:21.

manufacturing. On the bus to the Commons today, I foolishly revealed

:41:21.:41:31.

to a fellow passenger that it was a member of parliament. After some

:41:31.:41:36.

light hearted and customary abuse, our conversation turned to life,

:41:36.:41:41.

the universe and commuting. So, can the Prime Minister tell me, and the

:41:41.:41:49.

man on the Peckham on the bus, if that journey cost me 90p under Ken

:41:49.:41:55.

Livingstone, how much did that same journey cost me today, under Boris?

:41:55.:41:58.

The point I would make is that Ken Livingstone twice promised to

:41:59.:42:03.

freeze fares, and twice did not deliver. But the difference between

:42:03.:42:13.
:42:13.:42:19.

the two is that Boris pays his On that very subject, I look

:42:19.:42:22.

forward in the Budget later to measures on tax avoidance. Would

:42:22.:42:25.

the Prime Minister agree with me that people seeking high office in

:42:25.:42:29.

public life should set a better example? The Right Honourable Lady

:42:29.:42:35.

makes an important point. I have to note, Ken Livingstone has said that

:42:35.:42:39.

if he is elected Mayor of London, he will then fully pay his taxes.

:42:39.:42:43.

It is not for me to hand out political advice, but my advice

:42:43.:42:51.

would be to pay them before the campaign gets going. Does the Prime

:42:51.:42:53.

Minister recognise that the introduction of regional pay would

:42:53.:42:59.

set hospital against hospital and school against school, and yet it

:42:59.:43:04.

would almost certainly push up the overall cost of public sector pay?

:43:04.:43:09.

Unless he can give us a guarantee here today, a promised that if he

:43:09.:43:14.

introduces regional pay, it will bring down the overall bill...

:43:14.:43:19.

I would say is, the last government introduced local pay into the

:43:19.:43:22.

Courts Service, so the idea of looking at local pay for some

:43:23.:43:26.

public services is not some alien concept, it is a perfectly sensible

:43:26.:43:32.

thing to look at. I also have to say, his front bench suggested that

:43:32.:43:35.

we look at a local level of benefits in the debate about

:43:35.:43:45.
:43:45.:43:53.

benefits. So surely he should be in I'm sure the Prime Minister shares

:43:53.:43:59.

with me admiration for the work of the rescue helicopter service

:43:59.:44:04.

around our country. Does he share my concern that the loss of the

:44:04.:44:08.

Portland search-and-rescue helicopter in 2017 will threaten

:44:08.:44:13.

the lives of my constituents and damage the integrity of the search-

:44:13.:44:17.

and-rescue service on the south coast? I totally agree with the

:44:17.:44:20.

Honourable Gentleman that a reliable search-and-rescue service

:44:20.:44:25.

is absolutely vital. We have looked at keeping west King helicopters,

:44:25.:44:29.

which is one of the things he has suggested, but they would not be

:44:29.:44:35.

able to provide such a good service as a modern fleet of helicopters.

:44:35.:44:39.

We believe our changes should provide faster flying times and a

:44:39.:44:45.

more reliable service. Mr Speaker, following the riots last year, the

:44:45.:44:49.

Prime Minister came to the House and said, we will help you repair

:44:49.:44:53.

the damage, get your business is back up and running and support

:44:53.:44:57.

your communities. Last week the Metropolitan Police revealed that

:44:57.:45:01.

of those uninsured people who make claims under the act of Parliament,

:45:01.:45:05.

only about half of those have been settled - does the Prime Minister

:45:05.:45:09.

agree this is not good enough? agree, there have been problems

:45:09.:45:14.

under the act. This is why we have introduced a number of extra funds,

:45:15.:45:17.

run by the Department for community and local government, and those

:45:17.:45:23.

funds have paid out faster. The act of Parliament is a good piece of

:45:23.:45:26.

legislation, although it is quite out of date, but it does take time

:45:26.:45:35.

to make those payments, and I'd I say to the Prime Minister to that

:45:35.:45:38.

we are eight months on from the riots. The Deputy Prime Minister

:45:38.:45:43.

hosted a reception - I think that the honourable gentleman opposite

:45:43.:45:46.

should listen to this very important issue about the riots -

:45:46.:45:50.

at a reception last week organised by the Deputy Prime Minister, he

:45:51.:45:55.

and I met an owner of a supermarket that was raised to the ground

:45:55.:46:03.

during the eye vence on 8 and the - - -- violence on 8th August. She is

:46:03.:46:06.

still waiting for compensation. That is not right. It is the

:46:06.:46:10.

Government's responsibility to make sure she gets the compensation she

:46:10.:46:14.

deserves? I agree. I will look into that specific case. As I said, one

:46:14.:46:18.

of the reasons why I introduced funds along alongside the Riot

:46:18.:46:21.

Damages Act was to get that money out of local authorities faster. If

:46:21.:46:25.

he likes, I will put in the library of the House of Commons a set of

:46:25.:46:30.

information about what those funds did, where we have got to with the

:46:30.:46:33.

Riot Damages Act and also I will look into the individual case that

:46:33.:46:37.

he mentions. Talking about people who haven't

:46:37.:46:40.

been helped by that money that was provided to local authorities and

:46:40.:46:43.

can't get help. Now Mr Speaker, three things need to happen to make

:46:43.:46:48.

good on this. First of all, there needs to be proper information on

:46:48.:46:52.

the payments made under the Riot Damages Act as a matter of urgency

:46:52.:46:59.

because there is - no, there is one report, they say there is

:46:59.:47:01.

information, there is information from the Metropolitan Police, but

:47:01.:47:05.

the reality is that the information available is very patchy about what

:47:05.:47:08.

is happening around the country. So firstly, we need proper information.

:47:08.:47:12.

Secondly, I asked him him to nominate a minister in the in the

:47:12.:47:15.

Home Office whose job it is to make sure the claims are paid and

:47:15.:47:20.

thirdly, can he promise to back to the House with a clear indication

:47:20.:47:25.

when 100% of legitimate claims will be properly settled? I am happy to

:47:26.:47:30.

come back to the House. As I said, putting answer into the House of

:47:30.:47:35.

Commons library about this information. On the case he

:47:35.:47:42.

mentions, it was a multiple claim, but I accept eight months is too

:47:42.:47:45.

long. The honourable member in the Home Office who is the policing

:47:45.:47:49.

minister is take ago lead on this, but I have held follow-up meetings

:47:49.:47:52.

myself with DCLG and the Home Office to make sure the money is

:47:52.:47:55.

paid out. Thank you, Mr Speak he were. The

:47:55.:48:01.

Prime Minister maybe aware that the charity which provides support for

:48:01.:48:06.

servicemen has has changed its name. In order to raise awareness of this

:48:06.:48:11.

name change l the Prime Minister join with me in visiting their new

:48:11.:48:15.

residential centre in order to see at first handted wonderful -- hand

:48:15.:48:20.

the wonderful work they do in supporting our veterans? Perhaps I

:48:20.:48:26.

will be able to schedule a visit before long. I would like to put on

:48:26.:48:30.

record my thanks for the way they help former service personnel who

:48:30.:48:36.

have tragically lost their sight. He pays them a compliment and

:48:36.:48:40.

explains the change in their name. As a country and as a Government we

:48:40.:48:43.

have a debt to pay to former service personnel. They do, they

:48:44.:48:50.

have done extraordinary on behalf of their country and we need to

:48:50.:48:53.

look after them through their life and the Chancellor will be making

:48:53.:49:00.

announcements about that in his Budget. The Prime Minister said

:49:00.:49:03.

last year unhis Government unemployment would fall year-on-

:49:03.:49:07.

year and here we are on at this moment with a 17 year high record

:49:07.:49:15.

in unemployment. In my constituency, there is a 5.4 people chasing every

:49:15.:49:21.

job vacancy. The regional jobs fund has only supported four businesses.

:49:21.:49:29.

Why should the workers and many others set to lose their job

:49:29.:49:31.

believe a single word the Prime Minister...

:49:31.:49:36.

THE SPEAKER: The Prime Minister. First of all, on the specific case

:49:36.:49:40.

of the Rio Tinto plant, I know how important that is we are working

:49:40.:49:43.

with the council and with the company to do what we can to help

:49:43.:49:47.

get those people work. I understand Rio Tinto areinitions with a

:49:47.:49:51.

potential purchaser of that plant. What I say to him about employment

:49:51.:49:55.

and unemployment is clearly we need more jobs in our economy, but since

:49:55.:49:59.

the election we have had over 600,000 new jobs in the private

:49:59.:50:04.

sector. The level of employment in the country is up by around 250,000

:50:04.:50:10.

and there are fewer people on out of work benefits benefits now than

:50:10.:50:13.

there were at the time of the election. And in terms of what is

:50:13.:50:16.

happening in the north-east, we should celebrate the good news, the

:50:16.:50:22.

fact that Nissan is creating 2,000 jobs. The fact that high high tachy

:50:22.:50:28.

is -- high tachy is building a new plant. The fact that Greggs are

:50:28.:50:30.

putting more money into the north- east. We should be talking up the

:50:30.:50:33.

north-east instead of talking it down.

:50:33.:50:39.

Thank you, Mr Speaker. The running aground of a cargo vessel on a

:50:39.:50:43.

small island showed the need for the emergency coastguard tug that

:50:43.:50:47.

was withdrawn from service. Will the Prime Minister please look into

:50:47.:50:51.

this as a matter of urgency in view to get ago replacement tug in place

:50:51.:50:56.

before a worse indent happens? know this issue is being looked

:50:56.:51:01.

into at the moment so I'm happy to write to the honourable gentleman

:51:01.:51:04.

and give him the details. I know he represents island communities that

:51:04.:51:07.

can be cut off particularly during the winter months and he needs to

:51:07.:51:12.

know that those services are there and I will write to him about that.

:51:12.:51:18.

THE SPEAKER: Question seven, a closed question. Graham Alan.

:51:18.:51:22.

Question number seven, Mr Speaker. Will let me pay work to the work

:51:22.:51:26.

the honourable gentleman does this this area. Early intervention is

:51:26.:51:29.

central to what this Government is looking to achieve. That is how

:51:29.:51:33.

we're going to improve the life chances of the least well off in

:51:33.:51:39.

our country and lift young people out of poverty. We will base

:51:39.:51:43.

funding decisions on what comes out of the first two, the early

:51:43.:51:47.

intervention grant is going to rise next year.

:51:47.:51:51.

May I thank the the Prime Minister and the leaders of all parties in

:51:51.:51:54.

the chamber, there speaker for their continue for early

:51:54.:51:59.

intervention. Early intervention not only helps babies and children

:51:59.:52:02.

and young people develop the social and emotional capability to make

:52:02.:52:04.

the best of themselves, but it saves the country billions of

:52:04.:52:10.

pounds in the Long Run. Would he and indeed, the Chancellor take

:52:10.:52:14.

this as the first representation, not for today's Budget, but for

:52:14.:52:18.

next year's Budget? Would he consider theming next year's Budget

:52:18.:52:23.

around early intervention, bringing forward proposals for tax changes

:52:23.:52:27.

to stimulate the social finance market that we heard about in

:52:27.:52:33.

earlier questions and move 1% only of departmental dughts departments

:52:33.:52:36.

from late intervention to early intervention.

:52:36.:52:40.

That was an example of early intervention and I praise him for

:52:40.:52:44.

the work that he has done. As he knows, we are going to be setting

:52:44.:52:48.

up the early intervention foundation that will be funded in

:52:49.:52:53.

order to make the arguments that he has put whichever side of the House

:52:53.:52:57.

he has been sitting on for many years. I will discuss this with the

:52:57.:53:01.

Chancellor, what we are trying to do is look at all the mechanisms we

:53:01.:53:05.

have whether it is backing nursery education, introducing a pupil

:53:05.:53:07.

premium, making sure that the early intervention grant is going up, of

:53:07.:53:11.

putting the money in early to try and change people's life chances

:53:11.:53:15.

before it is too late. Thank you, Mr Speaker. Is the Prime

:53:15.:53:18.

Minister aware that Harlow has the highest business growth in the

:53:18.:53:23.

whole of the United Kingdom? Thanks to a Conservative council

:53:23.:53:27.

that is open for business a a Conservative-led Government that

:53:27.:53:32.

invested in an enterprise zone and increased apprentices and cut tax.

:53:32.:53:35.

Will the Prime Minister come to Harlow so we can show Britain how

:53:35.:53:40.

to lead the economic recovery? danger of being accused of watching

:53:40.:53:45.

too much television, you can summarise this question as saying

:53:45.:53:51.

The Only Way is Essex! What I would say is congratulate Harlow on the

:53:51.:53:54.

fantastic achievement they have. The Government wants to play itself,

:53:54.:53:59.

not least by the enterprise zone and we hope will create 5,000 new

:53:59.:54:06.

jobs. In North Tyneside, over 7,000 hard-

:54:06.:54:11.

working families depend on working tax credits to make ends meet. Yet

:54:11.:54:16.

less than 200 people have to pay top rate tax. Which of these groups

:54:16.:54:20.

does the Prime Minister think needs the most support in the

:54:20.:54:24.

Chancellor's Budget? What I can tell the honourable lady,

:54:24.:54:28.

we have we have increased the Child Tax Credit by �255 last year which

:54:28.:54:35.

was the biggest increase in its history and it will go up by

:54:35.:54:39.

another �135 this year and in terms of the very richest in our country,

:54:39.:54:42.

let me reassure her, after this Budget, they will be paying more in

:54:42.:54:48.

tax. As well as the Liberal Democrat

:54:48.:54:54.

priority to lift the tax threshold to �10,000, account Prime Minister

:54:54.:54:56.

agree that on the best ways of helping...

:54:56.:55:02.

THE SPEAKER: Order. Mr Hughes must be heard. Simon Hughes.

:55:02.:55:06.

Does the the Prime Minister agree that one of the best ways of

:55:06.:55:10.

helping families on low and medium incomes is to build more affordable

:55:10.:55:15.

housing throughout the country? And given Labour's legacy in London was

:55:15.:55:19.

350,000 families on the waiting list, can he assure us that there

:55:19.:55:23.

will be more affordable housing both in London and across the

:55:23.:55:29.

country? Well, we do want to get our housing market started again

:55:29.:55:33.

including affordable housing and that's why the higher right to buy,

:55:33.:55:37.

that is going to go into building affordable homes. We are doing more

:55:38.:55:41.

to kick start those places that have planning permission, but can't

:55:41.:55:44.

get underway because of problems with bank and other finance and

:55:44.:55:48.

that's why we are putting extra money into those schemes to make

:55:48.:55:57.

sure that building takes place this year or next year.

:55:57.:56:02.

Some of the information used by the consulting association could have

:56:02.:56:07.

only come from the police or the Security Services. When 3,000

:56:07.:56:10.

mostly celebrities had their telephones Hacked, the Government

:56:10.:56:19.

set up a public inquiry under Leveson. The Over 3,000 trade

:56:19.:56:26.

unionists have been back listed. Why is there one route for justice

:56:26.:56:29.

for celebrities and another for working people? There is one law

:56:29.:56:33.

that has to cover everybody in this land. If there is any accusations

:56:33.:56:36.

of wrongdoing, that is something that the police, who are completely

:56:36.:56:39.

independent of Government, can investigate. And that is what

:56:39.:56:43.

should happen. Let me say to the honourable gentleman, I say that on

:56:43.:56:49.

his behalf, but he could do do something on everyone's behalf. He

:56:49.:56:57.

runs the Right To Work campaign that stops young people getting

:56:57.:57:03.

workplaces. If he cares about young people, he will give up that left-

:57:03.:57:06.

wing position. My county has below average

:57:06.:57:10.

household income, but funding for schools and healthcare has for a

:57:10.:57:15.

long time been some of the lowest in the country. Does my right

:57:15.:57:18.

honourable friend share my view this is unfair and will he support

:57:18.:57:23.

measures to change the funding formulas it and to get a fair deal

:57:23.:57:27.

for my my county and for other similarly affected rural areas?

:57:27.:57:32.

are looking at the funding formula for schools and we want to make it

:57:32.:57:35.

simple so we can people can see what criteria are and why their

:57:36.:57:39.

area receives the money that it does, but at the same time as that

:57:39.:57:42.

are, we are introducing the pupil premium which will mean that parts

:57:42.:57:45.

of the country like his, where there are quite high levels of

:57:45.:57:49.

deprivation in parts, will get specific funding for those children

:57:50.:57:54.

who are on free school meals and that should help the funding of the

:57:54.:57:57.

schools that need the money the most.

:57:57.:58:02.

Will the Prime Minister publish - including the action that is needed

:58:02.:58:07.

to mitigate the risks this that Health Bill poses to patients?

:58:07.:58:13.

I would say is that as far as I can see we have voted in this House of

:58:13.:58:17.

Commons twice on the same issue and on both occasions, thank you Mr

:58:17.:58:24.

Speaker, there was a sigma jort in -- significant majority in favour

:58:24.:58:27.

of the Government's position and I would also add that the last

:58:27.:58:31.

Government had many, many opportunities to publish risk

:58:31.:58:36.

registers and they didn't do it. THE SPEAKER: I always appreciate

:58:36.:58:39.

the Prime Minister's gratitude, I am sure.

:58:39.:58:46.

For ten years or more, leading Conservatives like the noble Lord

:58:46.:58:53.

Saatchi and Tebbit have argued for people on low incomes to be taken

:58:53.:58:59.

out of income tax altogether. Does my right honourable friend

:59:00.:59:05.

agree that this is a thoroughly Conservative idea whose time has

:59:05.:59:12.

well and truly arrived? What I would say to my honourable

:59:12.:59:17.

friend is almost uniquely, I am not going to prejudge what is in the

:59:17.:59:20.

Chancellor's Budget, but I think we can say in reference to what he

:59:20.:59:30.
:59:30.:59:38.

says there, is if you like, Mr Speaker, a kaleidoscope Budget!

:59:38.:59:44.

THE SPEAKER: I am so encouraged that the Prime Minister is using my

:59:44.:59:46.

language! Good on him!

:59:46.:59:53.

Thank you, Mr Speaker. The Prime Minister may recall that at the

:59:53.:59:56.

time of the Strategic Defence and Security Review he described it as

:59:56.:00:03.

a mistake and an error to use the short take of the Joint Strike

:00:03.:00:07.

Fighter. As the Ministry of Defence is about to perform a U-turn on

:00:07.:00:11.

that decision, doesn't he now accept and understand that the real

:00:11.:00:15.

mistake and error has been in a Defence Review that's been

:00:15.:00:21.

inadequate and is fast unravelling. The mistake and error was in

:00:21.:00:28.

inheriting a �38 billion black hole in the defence budget. What he

:00:28.:00:31.

wants as Defence Secretary is to be the first Defence Secretary in a

:00:31.:00:35.

generation frankly to announce a balanced and funded budget for

:00:35.:00:39.

defence for this year and for many years to come. That is what we are

:00:39.:00:43.

discussing. We will look at all of the evidence, all of the costings

:00:43.:00:47.

and costings as he will know change in defence, but I do make this

:00:47.:00:51.

pledge - unlike previous governments, if costs change and if

:00:51.:00:55.

facts change we won't just plough on regardless and make wrong

:00:55.:01:05.
:01:05.:01:17.

THE SPEAKER: We come now to the The Speaker is vacating the chair

:01:17.:01:22.

because it is not the job of the Speaker to preside over the Budget

:01:22.:01:26.

statement itself. It is the job of the senior deputy, who will now go

:01:26.:01:29.

through a few of the formal motions which will prepare the way for the

:01:29.:01:33.

Budget statement itself. This is all part of the parliamentary

:01:33.:01:43.
:01:43.:02:00.

Mr Deputy Speaker, this Budget rewards work. Britain is going to

:02:00.:02:06.

earn its way in the world. There is no other road to recovery. This

:02:06.:02:10.

Budget supports working families and helps those looking for work.

:02:10.:02:15.

It unashamedly backs business, and it is on the side of aspiration,

:02:15.:02:19.

those who want to do better for themselves and for their families.

:02:19.:02:24.

This Budget reaffirms our unwavering commitment to deal with

:02:24.:02:29.

Britain's record debts. But because we have already taken difficult

:02:29.:02:39.
:02:39.:02:43.

decisions, this can also be a reforming budget. A model which saw

:02:43.:02:47.

manufacturing almost half while the national debt doubled. Mr the

:02:47.:02:53.

biggie Speaker, this is how Britain will earn its way in the world,

:02:53.:03:03.
:03:03.:03:06.

with far-reaching tax reform. The tax system will be more competitive

:03:06.:03:11.

for business than any other economy in the world, a system where

:03:11.:03:21.
:03:21.:03:26.

millions on the lowest pay are Reforming tax is only part of the

:03:26.:03:30.

story. We will earn our way in the world

:03:30.:03:34.

by saying to all business, large and small, we will provide you with

:03:34.:03:40.

the modern infrastructure. New growth-friendly planning rules and

:03:40.:03:44.

employment rules. The kind of schools and universities our future

:03:44.:03:49.

workforce needs. In return, new British business have the

:03:49.:03:53.

confidence to invest, innovate and be the best. We earn our way in the

:03:53.:03:58.

world F we stop being afraid to identify Britain's strengths and

:03:58.:04:04.

re-enforce them instead, backing industrieser row space,

:04:04.:04:10.

pharmaceuticals, creative media and science. A deliberate strath gi to

:04:10.:04:17.

create a more balanced -- strathgi to create a more balanced economy.

:04:17.:04:20.

Mr Deputy Speaker, stability comes first.

:04:20.:04:24.

The report from the Office for Budget Responsibility reminds us

:04:24.:04:29.

today of the risks to stability. Despite the welcome action by the

:04:29.:04:34.

European Central Bank, the impact of the sovereign debt crisis on the

:04:34.:04:38.

European economy has been significant. Italy, the Netherlands,

:04:38.:04:43.

Belgium and others are now in recession. Germany's economy shrank

:04:43.:04:49.

in the last quarter. In today's report the OBR are sharply revising

:04:49.:04:59.
:04:59.:04:59.

down their forecast for Euro-area growth from 0.8% to minus.3%. Their

:04:59.:05:06.

forecast is revised down by 0.2% and by 0.3%. Of course, Britain is

:05:07.:05:12.

not immune from these developments in our largest export markets. And

:05:12.:05:18.

the OBR say today that the situation in the Euro-area remains

:05:18.:05:22.

a major risk to our forecast. Another risk they identify is a

:05:22.:05:27.

further spike in oil prices. There is no doubt that the high oil price,

:05:27.:05:31.

driven by real demand and the Iranian situation is of great

:05:31.:05:36.

concern across the world. It means that the OBR's overall

:05:36.:05:41.

assessment of the outlook and risks to the British economy is broadly

:05:41.:05:45.

unchanged since last November's report. Despite these headwinds,

:05:45.:05:50.

there are more positive signs. The OBR expect the British economy to

:05:50.:05:53.

avoid a technical recession, with positive growth in the first

:05:53.:05:58.

quarter of this year. They say that the British economy has, in their

:05:58.:06:03.

words "Carried more momentum into the New Year than previously

:06:03.:06:07.

anticipated." Indeed, the Office for Budget Responsibility is

:06:07.:06:13.

slightly revising up their growth forecast for the UK this year.

:06:13.:06:23.

That is 0.8%. Then they forecast 2% next year, 2.7% in.... THE SPEAKER:

:06:23.:06:27.

Order! In fairness, we want to hear from the Chancellor of the

:06:27.:06:31.

Exchequer. We cannot do that with too much noise on either side.

:06:31.:06:38.

Chancellor of the Exchequer. They then forecast 2% next year.

:06:38.:06:45.

2.7% in 2014 and 3% in both 2015 and 2016.

:06:45.:06:48.

The OBR's forecast unemployment rate is the same as last autumn.

:06:48.:06:53.

They expect it to peek at this year at 8.7%, before falling each year

:06:53.:06:59.

to 6.3% by the end of the forecast period. But they have revised down

:06:59.:07:04.

their estimate of the claimant count, which they now expect to be

:07:04.:07:09.

100,000 lower in each of the next four years than previously forecast.

:07:09.:07:14.

Peeking this year rather than at the 1.8 million they forecast in

:07:14.:07:18.

November. They forecast one million more jobs in the economy over five

:07:18.:07:25.

years. Inflation is expected to fall

:07:25.:07:31.

throughout the period. From 2 por i.8% this year. To 2 -- 2.8% this

:07:31.:07:36.

year. I am today writing to the Governor

:07:36.:07:41.

of the Bank of England to reaffirm the CPI inflation target of 2%. The

:07:41.:07:44.

Government's credible and responsible fiscal policy allows

:07:44.:07:48.

the independent central bank to pursue an activist monetary policy,

:07:48.:07:53.

consistent with targeting low inflation. I confirm that the asset

:07:53.:07:57.

purchase facility will remain in place for the coming year. So

:07:57.:08:00.

unemployment is growing. Inflation is coming down. So too is the

:08:00.:08:05.

deficit. When this Government came to office,

:08:05.:08:09.

the Budget deficit stood at 11%. The state was borrowing one in four

:08:09.:08:14.

of every single pound that it spent. Today, I can report that the

:08:14.:08:19.

deficit is falling and is forecast to reach 7.6% next year. The share

:08:19.:08:24.

of national income taken by the state will have fallen from 48%

:08:24.:08:28.

when we took office to 43% next year.

:08:28.:08:32.

We must stick to the course, so that there will be no deficit-

:08:32.:08:36.

funded give aways today. Because we have taken difficult decisions, nor

:08:36.:08:44.

do we need to tighten further. Over the five year period this is a

:08:44.:08:49.

fiscally neutral budget. So, Mr Deputy Speaker, let me turn to

:08:50.:08:53.

fiscal forecasts. The whole House will be pleased to know that these

:08:53.:08:59.

have improved from the forecasts I presented in November. Borrowing

:08:59.:09:07.

this year is to come in at �126 billion. �1 billion lower than I

:09:07.:09:11.

forecast in the autumn. Over �30 billion a year lower than its peek

:09:11.:09:15.

the year before we came to office - - peak the year before we came to

:09:15.:09:24.

office. Borrowing will fall to �120 billion next year f you exclude the

:09:25.:09:34.

pension assets. �75 billion, then �52 billion, reaching �21 billion

:09:34.:09:37.

by 2016-2017. Borrowing is �11 billion less than I last forecast

:09:37.:09:42.

in the autumn. This will be used to pay down debt.

:09:42.:09:47.

In my first Budget, I set the Government the fiscal mandate of

:09:47.:09:51.

achieving a current balance by the end of the five-year horizon. The

:09:51.:09:55.

OBR confirmed today that we are on course to achieve that mandate and

:09:55.:10:00.

have eliminated the current deficit by 2016-2017. They also confirm

:10:00.:10:04.

that we are on course to reach our target for debt to be falling as a

:10:04.:10:07.

percentage of national income by the end of the Parliament in 2015-

:10:07.:10:12.

2016. Public sector net debt is set to

:10:12.:10:22.

peek at �76.3%. -- 76.3%. Lower than forecast, before falling the

:10:22.:10:26.

previous year. A balanced structural budge and falling debt,

:10:26.:10:32.

our deficit reduction plan is on course. We will not waiver from it.

:10:32.:10:38.

To do so would risk a sudden loss of confidence and a sharp rise in

:10:38.:10:42.

interest rates and we will not risk that.

:10:42.:10:45.

Instead, we reinforce today our commitment to fiscal responsibility,

:10:45.:10:49.

not just this year, but in the years ahead.

:10:49.:10:54.

The transfer of the �28 billion of assets from the Royal Mail pension

:10:54.:11:00.

fund to the ex-checker will free it from its -- exchequer will free it

:11:00.:11:05.

from its debt, ensure that staff are paid and help bring in new

:11:05.:11:09.

investment. Some would have been tempted to spend the win fall. I do

:11:09.:11:13.

not propose to spend it. I have used it to pay off debt.

:11:14.:11:20.

We will also maintain our control on welfare spending. The pasting of

:11:20.:11:25.

the welfare reform act was an historic moment. I pay tribute to

:11:25.:11:32.

the Work and Pensions Secretary. And to all my coalition colleagues

:11:32.:11:35.

for supporting him against determined opposition, from those

:11:35.:11:41.

who defend unlimited welfare. Even with the act, the welfare budget is

:11:41.:11:46.

set to rise to consume one-third of all public spending. If nothing is

:11:46.:11:51.

done to curb welfare bills, then the full weight of the spending

:11:51.:11:54.

restraint will fall on departmental budgets. The next Spending Review

:11:54.:12:00.

will have to confront this. I am, today, publishing analysis, which

:12:00.:12:04.

shows if in the next Spending Review we have the same reductions

:12:04.:12:08.

in departmental spending as we have in this review, we would need to

:12:08.:12:14.

make saving of �10 billion by 2016. We will address the rising costs of

:12:14.:12:19.

an ageing population and the burden this places on future generations.

:12:19.:12:22.

We will publish a White Paper on social care.

:12:22.:12:27.

I have also said that we would consider proposals to manage future

:12:27.:12:31.

increases in the state pension age beyond the increases already

:12:31.:12:34.

announced. I can confirm today that there will be an automatic review

:12:34.:12:40.

of the state pension age to ensure it keeps pace with increases in

:12:40.:12:45.

long life. Details of how this will operate will be published alongside

:12:45.:12:51.

the OBR's report this summer. One area, Mr Deputy Speaker, where

:12:51.:12:56.

Government spending is expected to be lower than planned is, as the

:12:56.:13:00.

Prime Minister just indicated, Afghanistan.

:13:00.:13:04.

We were reminded again yesterday of the sacrifice so many of our

:13:04.:13:08.

servicemen and women have made. As the Prime Minister made clear with

:13:08.:13:12.

the US President last week, UK forces will stop combat operation

:13:12.:13:17.

by the end of 2014. As a consequence, I can tell the House

:13:17.:13:22.

that the cost of operations, which are funded by the Government's

:13:22.:13:26.

special reserve, an and entirely separate from the defence budget,

:13:26.:13:30.

are expected to �2.4 billion lower than planned over the remainder of

:13:30.:13:33.

the Parliament. Let me be clear today, the full cost of operations

:13:33.:13:37.

will continue to be met from the reserve. Our brave Armed Forces

:13:38.:13:42.

will get the equipment they need to complete the job.

:13:42.:13:46.

I can ensure that some of the benefit of the lower cost is felt

:13:46.:13:50.

by those who fight so hard and give so much for our nation's security.

:13:50.:13:55.

We will fund an extra �100 million of improvements in the

:13:55.:13:58.

accommodation of our Armed Forces and families.

:13:58.:14:04.

I will also double the family's welfare grant, which is used to

:14:04.:14:08.

provide additional support to families behind when people deploy.

:14:08.:14:12.

We have doubled the operational allowance. Today, I am doubling the

:14:12.:14:16.

rate of council tax relief for thousands serving our country in

:14:16.:14:21.

operations over seas, will receive 100% relief on an average council

:14:21.:14:26.

tax bill. Mr Deputy Speaker, our commitment

:14:26.:14:29.

to reduce the deficit is keeping interest rates low.

:14:29.:14:35.

In this Budget, we take measures to ensure the benefits of those low

:14:35.:14:39.

interest rates are felt across the economy. They are benefiting the

:14:39.:14:42.

taxpayer. Thanks to the reduction in the deficit and our low interest

:14:42.:14:49.

rates, this Government is saving a total of �36 billion in debt

:14:49.:14:59.
:14:59.:15:00.

This year is the 400th anniversary of the foundation of the modern

:15:00.:15:04.

Treasury. There have been times recently when the Treasury has been

:15:04.:15:12.

borrowing more than at any other time in that long history. This

:15:12.:15:14.

reflects the confidence that reflects the confidence that

:15:14.:15:18.

investors have in Britain's ability to pay its way. I now want to test

:15:18.:15:21.

whether we can extend these benefits further into the future

:15:21.:15:26.

and diversify our portfolio. At present, the longest guilt we

:15:26.:15:30.

currently offered to the market is 50 years. The Debt Management

:15:30.:15:35.

Office will consult on the case for issuing gilts with maturities of

:15:35.:15:39.

longer than 50 years, and the case for a perpetual one, something

:15:39.:15:44.

Britain was last able to do six decades ago. We are also taking the

:15:44.:15:48.

opportunity to rebuild Britain's reserves, which had fallen to

:15:48.:15:52.

historically low levels. I can historically low levels. I can

:15:52.:15:53.

historically low levels. I can confirm, Mr Deputy Speaker, has an

:15:53.:15:59.

gold holdings have risen in value to �11 billion. Sadly, this does

:15:59.:16:05.

not include the 400 or so tons of gold sold a decade ago for �2

:16:05.:16:10.

billion, which would now be worth six times that, at over 30 in

:16:10.:16:20.
:16:20.:16:24.

billion pounds. -- over �13 billion. Mr Speaker, working families are

:16:24.:16:29.

already being helped by historic low mortgage rates. The new buy

:16:29.:16:33.

scheme which we introduced last week uses the Government's balance

:16:33.:16:37.

sheet to help those who cannot afford the larger deposits which

:16:37.:16:42.

some mortgage companies are now demanding. It comes alongside a new,

:16:42.:16:45.

reinvigorated right to buy. To make sure that there are new homes to

:16:45.:16:49.

buy, we are today expanding the building fund which provides

:16:49.:16:53.

upfront finance to construction firms. We are passing on low

:16:53.:16:56.

interest rates to small businesses through the National Loan Guarantee

:16:56.:17:02.

Scheme, which started operation yesterday. Barclays, Lloyds, the

:17:02.:17:07.

RBS, Santander and the new business bank are all involved. �20 billion

:17:07.:17:10.

a guarantees in total will be available. In the Autumn Statement

:17:10.:17:16.

I also allocated �1 billion to invest in funds which lend directly

:17:16.:17:20.

to the businesses which are the backbone of our economy. This is an

:17:20.:17:24.

alternative source of finance to the banks. The response has

:17:24.:17:29.

exceeded our expectations, 24 funds have submitted proposals. I am

:17:29.:17:32.

today short listing seven of them. Such has been the quality of the

:17:32.:17:36.

bids, I have decided to increase the size of the finance partnership

:17:36.:17:40.

to 20%, and I am also today expanding the Enterprise Finance

:17:40.:17:45.

guarantee. Stability, credibility, the low interest rates they bring,

:17:45.:17:49.

and passing those low rates on to families and businesses, these are

:17:49.:17:53.

necessary for growth, but alone they are not efficient. As a nation,

:17:53.:17:58.

we have to make a choice - his country became seduced by large

:17:58.:18:03.

deficits and the illusion of cheap finance. Do we watch as the Brazils

:18:03.:18:08.

and the Chinas and the Indias of this world power ahead of us in the

:18:08.:18:11.

global economy, or do we have the national resolve to say, no, we

:18:12.:18:16.

will not be left behind, we want to be out in front? That is this

:18:16.:18:23.

government's resolve. Under this government, Britain has moved into

:18:23.:18:26.

the top 10 of the most competitive places in the world to do business.

:18:26.:18:32.

But we have to do more. Here's how. First, exports - over the last

:18:32.:18:38.

decade, our share of world exports shrank as Germany's grew. We sold

:18:38.:18:42.

more to Ireland than to Brazil, Russia, India and China put

:18:42.:18:48.

together. That was the road to Britain's economic irrelevance, and

:18:48.:18:52.

we want to double our nation's exports to one trillion pounds this

:18:52.:18:57.

decade. So, we are expanding UK export finance and we are setting

:18:57.:19:03.

up new plans to help firms in new markets. Experts abroad must be

:19:03.:19:06.

accompanied by investment at home. Britain has a reputation as a

:19:06.:19:10.

remarkably open and welcoming place for investment. We must never allow

:19:10.:19:16.

protectionist rhetoric to creep into our political system. Instead,

:19:16.:19:21.

we are actively seeking investment from overseas pension and sovereign

:19:21.:19:25.

wealth funds, and working to develop London as a new offshore

:19:25.:19:28.

market for the Chinese currency. We also want investment from British

:19:28.:19:32.

pension funds and British infrastructure, and we are now

:19:32.:19:34.

working with a dozen of the large pension schemes specifically on

:19:34.:19:40.

that, and we are the first British Government to set out in a national

:19:40.:19:43.

plan the projects we are going to prioritise in the coming decade,

:19:43.:19:48.

the roads, railways, clean energy and water and broadband networks we

:19:48.:19:55.

all need. I also believe this country must confront the lack of

:19:55.:20:01.

airport capacity in the south-east of England, we cannot cut ourselves

:20:01.:20:06.

off from the fastest growing cities in the world, and the Transport

:20:06.:20:12.

Secretary will set out government thinking later this summer. We want

:20:12.:20:17.

to look at the opportunities for increasing the role of private

:20:17.:20:20.

investment in the road network, learning lessons from the water

:20:20.:20:26.

industry. I confirm today that Network Rail will extend the

:20:26.:20:31.

northern hub, adding to the electrification of the TransPennine

:20:31.:20:34.

rail route by upgrading the line between Manchester and Sheffield

:20:34.:20:44.
:20:44.:20:47.

and improving the Manchester to Preston and Blackpool lines. For

:20:47.:20:50.

years, transport investment in the north of England was neglected -

:20:50.:21:00.
:21:00.:21:01.

not under this government. We are working with our great cities to

:21:01.:21:04.

devolve decision-making powers, and we are striking a ground-breaking

:21:04.:21:09.

deal this week with Manchester, to support �1.2 billion in growth-

:21:09.:21:14.

enhancing infrastructure in that city. We will support �150 million

:21:14.:21:17.

of tax increment financing to help local authorities promote

:21:17.:21:23.

development, and we will provide an extra �270 million to the Catt in

:21:23.:21:28.

Places Fund. In all of this we are working with local areas to support

:21:28.:21:32.

their good ideas for growing the private sector in parts of the

:21:32.:21:34.

country where the state has taken a larger and larger share of the

:21:34.:21:41.

economy. Mr Deputy Speaker, the Mayor of London is also a very

:21:41.:21:47.

effective champion for the city he effective champion for the city he

:21:47.:21:52.

runs so well. We will work with him on plans this summer to go on

:21:52.:21:57.

investing in London Transport, lengthening commuter trains,

:21:57.:22:01.

extending the Underground and exploring new river crossings in

:22:01.:22:06.

east London. So, from the allegation made to the Mayor

:22:06.:22:11.

through the Growing Places Fund, he will be creating a new, �70 million

:22:11.:22:16.

development fund to attract new business and jobs. And the Mayor

:22:16.:22:20.

has persuaded me of the has persuaded me of the

:22:20.:22:21.

has persuaded me of the opportunities the new Royal Docks

:22:21.:22:25.

Enterprise Zone offers a largest city, if we offer enhanced capital

:22:25.:22:31.

allowances there, and so we will. Mr Deputy Speaker, 24 enterprise

:22:31.:22:38.

zones are now going ahead across England. Chinese investment is

:22:38.:22:41.

pouring into the zone in Liverpool, the zone in the West Midlands is

:22:41.:22:44.

already expanding, I want other parts of the United Kingdom to

:22:44.:22:48.

benefit from these policies. The Chief Secretary can confirm today

:22:48.:22:52.

that we will offer enhanced capital allowances for businesses starting

:22:52.:22:57.

up in the new Scottish Enterprise areas in Dundee and other areas,

:22:57.:23:01.

and there will be a new Welsh enterprise zone in Deeside, while

:23:01.:23:04.

we look forward to the first enterprise zone in Northern Ireland.

:23:04.:23:09.

I also want to see investment in our world leading energy sector,

:23:09.:23:13.

including renewables. We have launched the green investment bank,

:23:13.:23:19.

open for business next month, we have introduced the carbon pricing

:23:19.:23:24.

forum to our tax system, and we set the rate today. Combined heat and

:23:24.:23:28.

power plants will not be liable to come and price support rates,

:23:28.:23:30.

renewable energy will play a crucial part in Britain's energy

:23:30.:23:35.

mix, but I will always be alert to the costs we're asking families and

:23:35.:23:39.

businesses to bear. Environmentally sustainable has to be fiscally

:23:39.:23:46.

sustainable as well. The carbon reduction commitment was

:23:46.:23:49.

established by the previous government. It is cumbersome,

:23:49.:23:52.

bureaucratic and imposes unnecessary costs on business, so

:23:52.:23:56.

we will seek major savings in the administrative cost of this

:23:56.:23:59.

commitment to business, and if those cannot be found, I will bring

:23:59.:24:03.

forward proposals this autumn to replace the revenues with an

:24:03.:24:09.

alternative environmental tax. Gas is cheaper and has much less carbon

:24:09.:24:13.

than coal, and will be the largest single source of electricity in the

:24:13.:24:17.

coming years. My Right Honourable Friend the Energy Secretary will

:24:17.:24:20.

set out our new cash generation strategy in the autumn. I also want

:24:21.:24:25.

to make sure we extract the greatest possible amount of oil and

:24:25.:24:28.

gas from our reserves in the North Sea. We are today introducing a

:24:28.:24:33.

major package of tax changes to achieve this. We will end the

:24:33.:24:36.

uncertainty over decommissioning tax relief, which has hung over the

:24:36.:24:40.

industry for years, by entering into a contractual approach, and we

:24:40.:24:47.

are also introducing new allowances, including a �3 billion new field

:24:47.:24:51.

allowance for large and deep fields to open up west of Shetland, the

:24:51.:24:55.

last area of the basin which is left to be developed, which will be

:24:55.:25:05.
:25:05.:25:08.

a huge boost for investment in the Now, Mr Deputy Speaker, we should

:25:08.:25:12.

not be shy about identifying our successful industries and

:25:12.:25:18.

reinforcing them. Around one fifth of the world's top 100 medicines

:25:18.:25:23.

originate from UK research, so we are backing our Life Sciences

:25:23.:25:26.

sector through creating the Institute in St Pancras and cutting

:25:26.:25:30.

taxes to make is one of the most attractive places in the world to

:25:30.:25:34.

invent new medicines. We have protected the science budget, and

:25:34.:25:37.

now, we are committing �100 million worth of support alongside the

:25:37.:25:40.

private sector for investment in major new university research

:25:40.:25:45.

facilities. We are the world's second largest aerospace industry,

:25:45.:25:49.

and we are establishing a centre for aerodynamics to open next year,

:25:49.:25:53.

which will encourage innovation in aircraft design and the

:25:53.:26:00.

commercialisation of new ideas. We are determined to turn Britain into

:26:00.:26:04.

Europe's technology sector. We will start with digital content. The

:26:04.:26:08.

film tax credit helps generate more than �1 billion of film production

:26:08.:26:12.

investment in the UK per year. Today I am announcing our intention

:26:12.:26:17.

to introduce similar schemes for the video games, animation and high

:26:17.:26:23.

end TV production industries. Not only will this help stop premium

:26:23.:26:28.

British TV programmes being made abroad, it will also attract top

:26:28.:26:31.

international investors like Disney to make more of their premium shows

:26:31.:26:35.

in the UK. It will support our brilliant video-games and animation

:26:35.:26:42.

industry's, too. Mr Deputy Speaker, it is the determined policy of this

:26:42.:26:52.
:26:52.:27:02.

government that we keep Wallace & Order! I would have thought that

:27:02.:27:04.

the government side would want to hear more from the Chancellor.

:27:05.:27:14.
:27:15.:27:17.

Mr Dabic is bigger, to be Europe's Technology Centre, we also need to

:27:17.:27:19.

have the best technology infrastructure. Two years ago,

:27:19.:27:24.

Britain had some of the slowest broadband speeds in Europe. Today,

:27:24.:27:28.

our plans will deliver some of the fastest, with 90% of the population

:27:28.:27:35.

having access to super-fast broadband. But we should not be

:27:35.:27:40.

complacent by saying it is enough to be the best in Europe, when

:27:40.:27:44.

countries like Singapore do even better. Today we're funding ultra-

:27:44.:27:54.
:27:54.:28:00.

fast broadband and wi-fi in 10 of the UK's largest cities. My

:28:00.:28:06.

Honourable Friend for Brighton asked me to help small cities, too,

:28:06.:28:15.

no doubt with his own city in mind, and we are doing that as well. With

:28:15.:28:19.

the most connected countryside in Europe, the most digital content,

:28:19.:28:25.

that is what a modern industrial policy looks like. The business

:28:25.:28:29.

secretary and I have asked Michael Heseltine to review by the autumn

:28:29.:28:32.

how government spending departments and other public bodies can work

:28:32.:28:38.

better with the private sector on economic development. From

:28:38.:28:41.

Liverpool to Canary Wharf, Michael knows how it is done. And of course,

:28:41.:28:49.

these projects succeeded because they were not killed off by the

:28:49.:28:53.

planning system. You cannot earn your future if you cannot get

:28:53.:28:58.

planning permission. Global businesses have diverted specific

:28:58.:29:03.

investments which would have created hundreds of jobs in some of

:29:03.:29:06.

the most deprived communities in Britain to countries like Germany

:29:06.:29:10.

and the Netherlands because they cannot get planning permission here.

:29:10.:29:15.

That is unacceptable. Next week, my Right Honourable Friends the

:29:15.:29:17.

Communities Secretary and the planning minister will publish the

:29:17.:29:22.

results of our overhaul of planning regulation. We are replacing 1,000

:29:22.:29:26.

pages of guidance with just 50 pages, introducing a presumption in

:29:26.:29:30.

favour of sustainable development, while protecting our most precious

:29:30.:29:38.

environment,. The new policy comes into effect when the national

:29:38.:29:42.

policy framework is published next Tuesday. This is the biggest

:29:42.:29:46.

reduction in business red tape ever undertaken. As a country, we also

:29:46.:29:51.

want to make the most of the Olympic and Paralympic Games. Some

:29:51.:29:55.

of the biggest events will be on a Sunday. And when millions of

:29:55.:29:59.

visitors come to Britain to see them, we do not want to hang up a

:29:59.:30:04.

closed for business sign, so we will be introducing limited

:30:04.:30:13.

legislation to relax the Sunday Earning our way in the world means

:30:13.:30:18.

giving young people the skills to compete and in time, my honourable

:30:18.:30:21.

friend the school reforms will do more to improve the long-term

:30:21.:30:26.

economic performance of our country than any Budget measure ever will.

:30:26.:30:29.

But we've got to help the young adults who have already been let

:30:29.:30:33.

down by the school system. We are offering a record number of

:30:33.:30:36.

apprenticeships and our Youth Contract comes into force next

:30:36.:30:41.

month. I can tell the House, we are also exploring the idea of

:30:41.:30:44.

enterprise loans, young people get a loan to go to university or

:30:44.:30:47.

college, now we want to help them get a loan to start their own

:30:47.:30:53.

business. We're also looking to see whether

:30:53.:30:58.

we can make public sector pay more responsive to local pay rates. It

:30:58.:31:04.

is something as we have just heard, the last Government introduced into

:31:04.:31:13.

the court service, London Weighting exists aloss the public sector. The

:31:13.:31:17.

Opposition have opposed the idea of regional benefit rates, so we shall

:31:17.:31:21.

what we can do to make our public services more responsive and help

:31:21.:31:25.

our private sector to grow and create jobs in all parts of the

:31:26.:31:28.

country. We have asked the independent pay review bodies to

:31:28.:31:32.

look at this issue. Today we are publishing the evidence of the

:31:32.:31:35.

treasury that are submitting to them and some departments will have

:31:35.:31:44.

the option to moving to more local pay. Mr Deputy Speaker, new

:31:44.:31:47.

infrastructure and investment ambitious reforms on planning,

:31:47.:31:52.

education and welfare to help businesses to create jobs. These

:31:52.:31:55.

will all help Britain earn its way in the Worle, but we need a tax

:31:55.:32:01.

system that supports work. 200 years ago, Adam Smith set out the

:32:01.:32:05.

four principles of good taxation and they remain good principles

:32:05.:32:09.

today. Taxes should be simple, predictable, support work, and they

:32:09.:32:15.

should be fair. The rich should pay pay the most and the poor the least.

:32:15.:32:19.

The tax system this Government inherited from its predecessor has

:32:19.:32:25.

drifted far from these principles. We've already addressed some of the

:32:25.:32:33.

problems. We have established an office of tax simp simplification,

:32:33.:32:36.

companies are moving to Britain, not away. We have stopped the jobs

:32:36.:32:44.

tax. We have taken one million low paid people out of tax altogether.

:32:44.:32:48.

Now we need further reform. Reneed to give Britain a modern tax system

:32:48.:32:53.

fit for the modern world. The first goal is a far simpler tax system

:32:53.:32:57.

which businesses can easily navigate and where ordinary

:32:57.:33:01.

taxpayers understand what they are being asked to pay. So we will

:33:01.:33:03.

radicalically change the administration of tax for our

:33:03.:33:08.

smallest firms. Last year I asked the Office of Tax Simplification

:33:08.:33:11.

for recommendations. They have propose that had we tax small firms

:33:11.:33:13.

on the basis of the cash that passes through their businesses

:33:13.:33:17.

rather than asking them to spend a huge amount of time doing

:33:17.:33:20.

calculations designed for big businesses. I agree. So we will

:33:20.:33:25.

consult on this new cash basis for calculating tax for firms with a

:33:25.:33:29.

turnover of up to �77,000, double what actually the office proposed.

:33:30.:33:35.

This will make filling in tax returns simpler for up to three

:33:35.:33:39.

million firms. Remember also pressing forward with our ambition

:33:39.:33:42.

to integrate the operation of income tax and national insurance I

:33:43.:33:49.

announced at last year's Budget so we don't ask businesses to run two

:33:49.:33:52.

different payroll tax administrations, a consultation on

:33:52.:33:55.

how we do this is being published next month. We will address the

:33:55.:34:01.

loopholes and anomalies in our VAT system, for example, at present

:34:01.:34:04.

soft drinks and sports drinks are charged VAT. Sports nutrition

:34:04.:34:13.

drinks are not. Hot take ski away food has been charged VAT, but some

:34:13.:34:20.

new hot products in supermarkets are not.

:34:20.:34:28.

We are publishing our plans today to remove loopholes and anomalies,

:34:28.:34:31.

but we keep the exceptions on children's clothes, printed books

:34:31.:34:39.

and newspapers. We should simplify the age related allowances which

:34:39.:34:42.

the office of tax tax simplification highlighted as a fe

:34:42.:34:46.

fewer of the tax system. Many Pensioners don't understand them.

:34:46.:34:50.

These allowances require 150,000 pensioners to fill in self

:34:50.:34:54.

assessment forms. As we have real increases in the personal allowance,

:34:54.:35:04.
:35:04.:35:08.

their value is beinger being eroded away. We will do away with the age

:35:08.:35:14.

related allowance. I will freeze the cash value of the allowance for

:35:14.:35:18.

existing pensioners. This will protect the existing level of

:35:18.:35:21.

allowance pensioners have while introducing a new single personal

:35:21.:35:25.

allowance for all. It is a major major simplification, it saves

:35:25.:35:30.

money and no pensioner will lose in cash terms. Under this Government,

:35:30.:35:34.

pensioners next month will receive the largest ever cash increase in

:35:34.:35:42.

the basic State pension of �5.30 a week. Now we want to simplify the

:35:42.:35:45.

basic State pension and its interaction with the second State

:35:45.:35:49.

pension. I pay tribute to the work my honourable friend the Pensions

:35:49.:35:55.

Minister has done on this. Such is the complexity of this means-tested

:35:55.:35:58.

system, only someone like our Pensions Minister can work out what

:35:58.:36:04.

someone is entitled to and what they need to save. So I can confirm

:36:04.:36:08.

that we will introduce a new single tier pension for future pensioners

:36:08.:36:14.

set above the means-test. This is currently estimated at �140, it

:36:14.:36:18.

will be based on contributions and it will cost no more than the

:36:18.:36:21.

current system in any year. We will bring forward further details later

:36:21.:36:25.

this spring. A single generous basic State pension for those who

:36:25.:36:31.

have worked hard and saved hard all their lives and a further major

:36:31.:36:36.

simplification of our tax and benefit system. Mr Deputy Speaker

:36:36.:36:40.

in the information age, people should know what taxes they are

:36:40.:36:45.

paying and what their money is being spent on. Now my honourable

:36:45.:36:51.

friend, the member for Ipswich, recently proposed to this House

:36:52.:36:55.

that we sent to taxpayers an annual statement showing them just that. I

:36:55.:37:02.

think this is an excellent idea and I intend to put it into practise.

:37:02.:37:07.

HMRC contacts roughly half of taxpayers each year from 2014,

:37:08.:37:11.

these 20 million taxpayers will at the same time receive a new

:37:11.:37:16.

personal tax statement. This will tell people how much income tax and

:37:16.:37:20.

national insurance they have paid. Their average tax rates. How this

:37:20.:37:24.

contributes to public spending. In other words, how much

:37:24.:37:27.

proportionally of their tax bill goes to fund the healthcare,

:37:27.:37:32.

education, or welfare bills and how much is spend on servicing interest

:37:32.:37:35.

payments on the national debt. People will know what they are

:37:35.:37:42.

paying and what they are paying it for. A tax system that is simple

:37:42.:37:48.

and transparent. Now, Mr Deputy Speaker, that is our tirst goal --

:37:48.:37:51.

first goal. Our second goal is a tax system that is more competitive

:37:51.:37:56.

for business than any other major economy in the world. Our

:37:56.:38:02.

predecessors wanted to increase taxes on small businesses. Instead,

:38:02.:38:09.

we've cut the tax rate on small companies to 20%. Our predecessors

:38:09.:38:14.

wanted to increase national insurance on jobs and we've cut it.

:38:14.:38:19.

Our new control foreign company rules will be legislated for in the

:38:19.:38:22.

coming Finance Bill and will stop global firms leaving Britain and

:38:22.:38:26.

encourage them to start coming here. This Government also supports

:38:26.:38:30.

research and development here in Britain instead of abroad. We have

:38:30.:38:34.

increased the generosity of the tax credit for smaller firms. I confirm

:38:34.:38:41.

from next year, we will introduce an above the line R & D tax credit

:38:41.:38:44.

that business organisations have campaigned hard for. And we will

:38:44.:38:48.

help new start-up businesses recruit and retain talent by more

:38:48.:38:53.

than doubling the enterprise management incentive grant limit to

:38:53.:38:56.

�250,000 and easing the rules so that academics in our universities

:38:57.:39:02.

can turn great ideas into great companies. The Treasury will review

:39:02.:39:06.

for this autumn what more we can do to encourage employee ownership.

:39:06.:39:10.

All of these tax reductions will help win business for Britain. But

:39:10.:39:14.

the headline rate of corporation tax remains the most visible sign

:39:14.:39:20.

of how competitive our country is. We've already cut the rate from 28%

:39:20.:39:25.

to 26%. This April, it is due to fall again to 25%. I can tell the

:39:25.:39:29.

House today, that we will have a further cut of 1% to be implemented

:39:29.:39:33.

right away. From next month, Britain Britain will have a

:39:33.:39:42.

corporation tax rate of just 24%. And we will continue with the two

:39:42.:39:46.

further cuts planned next year and the year after so that by 2014

:39:46.:39:52.

Britain will have a 22% rate of corporation tax. This is the

:39:52.:39:56.

biggest sustained reduction in business tax rates for a generation.

:39:56.:40:02.

A headline rate that is not just lower than our tors, but --

:40:02.:40:07.

competitors, but 18% lower than the US, 16% lower than Japan, 12% be

:40:07.:40:11.

below France and 8% be employee Germany, an advertisement for jobs

:40:12.:40:18.

and investment in Britain. And it is a rate that puts our

:40:18.:40:22.

country within sight of a 20% rate of business tax that would align

:40:22.:40:27.

basic rate income tax to, the small companies rate and the corporation

:40:27.:40:36.

tax rate. I'm also increasing the rate the bank levy to 0.105% from

:40:36.:40:41.

next January so that the additional corporation tax cuts do not benefit

:40:41.:40:51.

the banks. And so our levy will in addition

:40:51.:40:57.

raise the �2.5 billion a year that we said that it would. That brings

:40:57.:41:07.

me to the main duties. Let me start with alcohol duty duty. The

:41:07.:41:11.

Government will be publishing its alcohol strategy to address the

:41:11.:41:15.

growing problem of alcohol abuse and the many billions of pounds it

:41:15.:41:20.

costs our NHS and the Criminal Justice System, but today I have no

:41:20.:41:26.

further changes to make to the duty rates set out by my predecessor.

:41:26.:41:30.

Turning to tobacco duty. Smoking remains the biggest cause of

:41:30.:41:33.

preventable illness and premature death in the UK. There is clear

:41:33.:41:38.

evidence that increasing the cost of tobacco encourages smokers to

:41:38.:41:44.

quit and discourages young people from taking it up. So duty on all

:41:44.:41:49.

tobacco products will rise by 5% above inflation, that's 37 pence on

:41:50.:41:56.

a packet of cigarettes and and this will take effect at 6pm tonight.

:41:56.:42:06.
:42:06.:42:07.

One area where I am today making substantial changes is gambling

:42:07.:42:14.

duties. The VAT treatment of gaming machines is being challenged by

:42:14.:42:19.

operators in the courts. So I will introduce a new machine games duty

:42:19.:42:23.

with a standard rate of 20% and a lower rate for low stakes and prize

:42:23.:42:29.

machines of 5% of net takings. The current duty regime for remote

:42:29.:42:32.

gambling introduced by the last Government was levied on a place of

:42:32.:42:36.

supply basis. This allowed overseas operators to avoid it and much of

:42:36.:42:42.

the industry has as a result moved off shore. 90% of online gambling

:42:42.:42:45.

consumed by our citizens is supplied from outside the UK and

:42:45.:42:48.

the remaining UK operations are under pressure to leave. This is

:42:48.:42:53.

clearly not fair and not a sensible way to support jobs in Britain. So

:42:53.:42:59.

we intend to introduce a tax regime based on the placed of consumption

:42:59.:43:03.

and from this April, we will introduce double taxation relief

:43:04.:43:07.

for remote gambling. These changes will create a more level playing

:43:07.:43:13.

field and protect jobs here. I turn now to fuel and vehicle excise

:43:13.:43:17.

duties. High oil prices have put real pressure on household

:43:17.:43:20.

household bugs and on businesses, that is -- budgets and on

:43:20.:43:24.

businesses, that is why we took action to cut fuel duty so it is

:43:24.:43:29.

sixpence lower than our predecessors planned. We have also

:43:29.:43:33.

scrapped the last Government's fuel duty escalator of annual above

:43:33.:43:38.

inflation rises regardless of the oil price and I am confirming the

:43:38.:43:42.

fair fuel stabiliser, above inflation rises will only return if

:43:42.:43:50.

the oil price returns to below �45. This Government has eased the

:43:50.:43:56.

burden on motorists by �4.5 billion at a time when money is very short.

:43:56.:44:00.

I do not propose to make any further further changes to the fuel

:44:00.:44:06.

duty plans already set out. I am increasing vex highly excise duty

:44:06.:44:15.

by inflation only to encourage fuel fuel efficiency, we will extend the

:44:15.:44:25.
:44:25.:44:27.

low emission allowance for cars. I can also announce that I am again

:44:27.:44:33.

freezing Vehicle Excise Duty for road hauliers. I now turn to

:44:33.:44:38.

personal and property taxation. My goal is a tax system where the

:44:38.:44:45.

lowest paid are lifted out of tax altogether while the tax revenues

:44:45.:44:52.

we get from the richest increase. Now, most wealthy people pay their

:44:52.:44:56.

taxes and without without them we could not begin to afford the

:44:56.:45:00.

public services upon which this country depends. But under the last

:45:00.:45:06.

Government, it was the boast of some high earners with the help of

:45:06.:45:09.

accountants, they were paying less in tax than their cleaners. I

:45:09.:45:16.

regard tax evasion and aggressive tax avoidance as morally repugnant.

:45:16.:45:22.

We have increased both the resources and the number of staff

:45:22.:45:28.

working on evasion and avoidance at HMRC. Taken together, the anti-

:45:28.:45:31.

avoidance measures in this year's financial Bill will increase tax

:45:31.:45:35.

revenue over the next five years by �1 billion and protect �10 billion

:45:35.:45:39.

that could have been lost. This week, we have signed a further

:45:39.:45:44.

agreement with the Swiss to stop UK residents from evading tax. We have

:45:44.:45:54.
:45:54.:46:00.

done all these things, but today we I ask whether a general avoid rule

:46:00.:46:05.

could work in the UK tax system. It was recommended such a rule would

:46:05.:46:08.

improve our ability to tackle tax avoidance, without damaging the

:46:08.:46:13.

competitiveness of the UK as a place to do business. We agree. So

:46:13.:46:17.

we will introduce one. We will consult on the details of the new

:46:17.:46:20.

rule and legislate for it in next year's Finance Bill.

:46:20.:46:28.

A major source, and one which annoys many citizens is the way

:46:28.:46:32.

that some people avoid the stamp duty that the rest of the

:46:32.:46:36.

population pays, including by using companies to buy expensive

:46:36.:46:39.

residential property. I have given plenty of public warnings that this

:46:39.:46:45.

abuse should stop. Now we are taking action.

:46:45.:46:49.

I am increasing the stamp duty land tax charge applied to residential

:46:49.:46:55.

properties over �2 million, bought into a corporate envelope. The

:46:55.:47:00.

charge will be 15% and it will take effect today.

:47:00.:47:06.

We will also consult on the introduction of a large annual

:47:06.:47:11.

charge on those �2 million residential properties, which are

:47:11.:47:16.

already contained in corporate envelopes and to ensure the wealthy

:47:16.:47:21.

non-residents are also caught by these changes, we will be

:47:21.:47:24.

introduced capital gains tax on residential property held in

:47:25.:47:29.

overseas envelopes. We are also announcing legislation today to

:47:29.:47:34.

close down the sub-sales relief rules as a route of avoidance. Let

:47:34.:47:38.

me make this absolutely clear to people. If you buy a property in

:47:38.:47:41.

Britain that is used for residential purposes, then we will

:47:41.:47:44.

expect stamp duty to be paid. This is the clear intention of

:47:44.:47:49.

Parliament. I will not hesitate to move swiftly,

:47:49.:47:56.

without notice and retrospectively, if inappropriate ways around these

:47:56.:48:01.

laws are found. People have been warned! Mr Deputy Speaker, it is

:48:01.:48:07.

fair when money is tight and so many families could do with help,

:48:07.:48:10.

that those buying the most expensive homes contribute more.

:48:10.:48:17.

From mid-night tonight we will introduce a new stamp duty rate of

:48:17.:48:21.

7% on properties worth more than �2 million.

:48:21.:48:30.

I also spwen -- intend to deal with income tax reliefs. Let be clear.

:48:30.:48:36.

Most rich people pay a lot of tax. It is also right that we have tax

:48:36.:48:41.

release that promotes investment, supports charitable giving. It

:48:41.:48:46.

cannot be right that some people make unlimited use of this year

:48:46.:48:49.

after year. Everyone in this country and particularly those with

:48:49.:48:53.

the highest incomes should contribute a fair share to the ex-

:48:53.:49:02.

checker. Some reliefs like the pensions relief is capped. I don't

:49:02.:49:05.

intend to make any change to pension relief in this Budget. To

:49:05.:49:10.

make sure those on the highest income contribute a fair share, I

:49:10.:49:16.

am introduced a new cap on the reliefs which are not capped.

:49:16.:49:20.

Anyone seeking to claim �50,000 of these reliefs in one year, will

:49:20.:49:25.

have a cap set at 25% of their incomes, with capped benefits. Now

:49:25.:49:32.

it is right to cap tax reliefs too. Mr Deputy Speaker, that brings me

:49:32.:49:42.
:49:42.:49:43.

to the rates of income tax and the additional rate of 50p.

:49:43.:49:46.

This tax rate is the highest in the G20.

:49:46.:49:52.

It is higher, not than the tax rate of America, but also of major

:49:52.:49:55.

European countries like France, Italy and Germany. It is widely

:49:56.:50:00.

acknowledged by business organisations, and international

:50:00.:50:02.

observers as harming the British economy. Like the previous

:50:02.:50:06.

Chancellor who introduced it, I have always said it is temporary,

:50:07.:50:11.

but I also said, three years ago, that I would not be prepared to

:50:11.:50:14.

reduce it while we were asking the public sector to accept a pay

:50:14.:50:18.

freeze. I will stick to those pledges. A 50p tax rate, with all

:50:18.:50:23.

the damage it does to Britain's competitiveness can only be

:50:23.:50:27.

justified if it raises significant sums of money. In last year's

:50:27.:50:32.

Budget, I asked Her Majesty's revenue and customs to look at the

:50:32.:50:37.

evidence and to look at the self- assessment tax receipts which have

:50:37.:50:40.

come in since this January. I am publishing the report today. What

:50:40.:50:47.

it reveals is that the 50p tax rate has caused massive distortions.

:50:47.:50:52.

HMRC found an astonishing �16 billion of income was deliberately

:50:52.:50:57.

shifted into the previous tax year, at a cost to the taxpayer of �1

:50:57.:51:02.

billion. Something that the previous Government's figures made

:51:02.:51:08.

no allowance for whatsoever. Self- assessment receipts this year are

:51:08.:51:15.

below forecast by some 3.6 billion. Other tax receipts have held up.

:51:15.:51:20.

The increase from 40p to 50p raised just one-third of the �3 billion we

:51:20.:51:27.

were told it would raise. Of course, Mr Deputy Speaker, the previous

:51:27.:51:31.

Government initially proposed a rate of 45p, then increased that to

:51:31.:51:41.
:51:41.:51:43.

50p. Let me tell the House what Her Majesty's revenues and customs say,

:51:43.:51:50.

their figures.... I am coming on the OBR, don't you worry!

:51:50.:51:55.

Their figures tell the story - the direct cost is only �100 million a

:51:55.:52:01.

year. Indeed HMRC calculate the loss of other tax revenues may even

:52:01.:52:05.

cancel that out. In other words, it raises, at most, a fraction of what

:52:05.:52:08.

we were told, and may raise nothing at all.

:52:08.:52:15.

So, from April next year, the top rate of tax will be 45p.

:52:15.:52:25.
:52:25.:52:25.

No Chancellor can justify a tax rate.... THE SPEAKER: Order!

:52:25.:52:30.

We are nearly coming to the end. I want the same respect to be given

:52:30.:52:36.

to the Leader of the Opposition. So, please, Chancellor of the Exchequer.

:52:36.:52:41.

Mr Deputy Speaker, no Chancellor can justify a tax rate that damages

:52:41.:52:47.

our economy and raises next to nothing. It is as simple as that.

:52:47.:52:51.

And thanks to the other new taxes on the rich, I have announced today,

:52:51.:52:56.

we will get five times more money, each and every year from the

:52:56.:53:03.

wealthiest in our society. SPEAKER: Order! You are getting

:53:03.:53:08.

very excited at the back. I assume you want to calm down. It's not

:53:08.:53:11.

good for your health! Chancellor of the Exchequer?

:53:11.:53:16.

So the richest pay more, the economy benefits, Britain is

:53:16.:53:19.

competitive again. Now, the Shadow Chancellor, and quite a few members

:53:19.:53:24.

opposite, have said that the HMRC report is not enough and that the

:53:25.:53:26.

Office for Budget Responsibility should pass judgment.

:53:26.:53:34.

They have. These days, the direct costing the

:53:34.:53:37.

Treasury applies to every budget measure is assessed and certified

:53:37.:53:42.

by the OBR. Unlike the previous Government, they also assess the

:53:42.:53:46.

cash flow consequences of forestalling. When it comes to the

:53:46.:53:51.

�100 million direct costs of this measure tOBR say this - "we believe

:53:51.:53:55.

this is a reasonable and central estimate."

:53:55.:54:00.

And they also assess, as reasonable, the estimate that the new taxes I

:54:00.:54:06.

have introduced on the rich today directly raise five times that

:54:06.:54:14.

amount and is half a billion pounds we can now use to help people on

:54:14.:54:19.

lower and middle incomes keep more of their earnings.

:54:19.:54:23.

Mr Deputy Speaker, in the Spending Review we took the difficult

:54:23.:54:28.

decision to remove child benefit from families with a higher rate

:54:28.:54:34.

taxpayer. I said then that I simply could not justify those asking

:54:34.:54:41.

�15,000-�30,000 a year to go on paying child benefit to those

:54:41.:54:47.

earning �78,000-�100,000. All -- �80,000-�100,000. All sections must

:54:47.:54:50.

deal with the deficit. Without this measure we could not get the job

:54:50.:54:54.

done. I said it wanted to do it in a way that is fair and does not

:54:54.:54:58.

involve setting up a new means- tested credit system for millions

:54:58.:55:02.

of families. I said I would set out how this measure would be

:55:02.:55:06.

implemented in this Budget. We want to avoid a cliff edge that means

:55:06.:55:10.

people lose all their child benefit when they earn just a pound one. So

:55:10.:55:15.

I can today confirm that instead of withdrawing child benefit all at

:55:15.:55:20.

once when people earn the high-rate threshold. It will only be

:55:20.:55:24.

withdrawn when someone in the household has an income of more

:55:24.:55:31.

than �50,000. The withdraw will be gradual. 1% for every �100 earned

:55:31.:55:35.

over �50,000. So there is no cliff edge. Only those with an income of

:55:35.:55:40.

more than �60,000 lose all of their benefits.

:55:40.:55:50.
:55:50.:55:51.

This means an 750,000 families will keep their benefit. 90% of all

:55:51.:55:56.

families will remain eligible for child benefit. Now we can afford to

:55:56.:56:00.

implement the child benefit policy in this way because of instead of

:56:00.:56:05.

expanding the full benefit of the personal allowance to all high-rate

:56:05.:56:11.

taxpayers as last year, we will pass on a quarter to high rate

:56:11.:56:16.

taxpayers spend the ress on helping families with the higher of the

:56:16.:56:19.

bottom rate band. Mr Deputy Speaker, that brings me on to the personal

:56:19.:56:23.

allowance and the central goal of this Budget, which is to support

:56:23.:56:29.

working families. This coalition Government believes

:56:29.:56:33.

that the best way to support working people on the lowest

:56:33.:56:36.

incomes is to take them out of tax all together.

:56:36.:56:41.

And the best way of getting money directly into the pockets of

:56:41.:56:44.

working families on middle incomes is to increase the amount of their

:56:44.:56:48.

earnings they can keep before they pay tax. That is why this

:56:48.:56:52.

Government has set itself the goal of raising the personal tax-free

:56:52.:56:56.

allowance to �10,000. We promise real increases every

:56:56.:57:02.

year to reach that. In my last two Budgets we have made

:57:02.:57:07.

great strides forward. Last year the personal allowance rose by

:57:07.:57:14.

�1,000. In two weeks it will go up to �8,105 together these increases

:57:14.:57:18.

have taken over one million low- paid people out of tax all together.

:57:18.:57:24.

Today, Mr Deputy Speaker, I want to go much further and much faster.

:57:24.:57:28.

I am announcing the largest ever increase in the personal allowance.

:57:28.:57:32.

That is the amount that people can earn tax free, from next April that

:57:32.:57:38.

amount will increase by �1,100. Every working person on low or

:57:38.:57:43.

middle incomes will benefit. People will be able to earn up to �9,205

:57:43.:57:53.
:57:53.:57:57.

before they have to pay any tax. Millions.... Mr Deputy Speaker,

:57:57.:58:05.

millions of working people will be �220 better off every year. That is

:58:05.:58:11.

�170 better off after inflation, because higher rate earners will

:58:11.:58:15.

also benefit. 24 million people earning less than �100,000 a year

:58:15.:58:20.

will gain from this measure. We are in touching distance of the goal of

:58:20.:58:24.

a �10,000 personal allowance that we all share.

:58:24.:58:29.

I can tell the country, that as a result of our Budget, people

:58:29.:58:32.

working full-time on the minimum wage will have seen their income

:58:32.:58:36.

tax bill cut in half. This coalition Government will have

:58:36.:58:40.

taken two million people, two million of the lowest paid people

:58:40.:58:48.

in our country, out of tax all together.

:58:48.:58:54.

Mr Deputy Speaker n the middle of this Parliament, in difficult

:58:54.:58:59.

economic times, this coalition Government has not settled for a

:58:59.:59:03.

no-nothing Budget. We have not ducked the difficult choices. We

:59:03.:59:07.

have taken them head-on. A competitive top rate of tax. More

:59:07.:59:13.

revenues from those best able to pay. Fewer reliefs. A tax cut for

:59:13.:59:18.

working people. Low income earners, taken out of tax all together.

:59:18.:59:22.

Alongside it, one of the lowest rates of business tax in the world.

:59:22.:59:26.

A simpler tax code and a country, where its citizens know the taxes

:59:26.:59:30.

they are paying and what they are paying it for. We have achieved all

:59:30.:59:36.

this and kept to our deficit plan. Let us be resolved, no people will

:59:36.:59:39.

strive as the British will strive, no country will adapt as the

:59:39.:59:46.

British will adapt. No country will value those who work as we will

:59:46.:59:49.

value those who work. Together the British people will share in the

:59:49.:59:54.

effort and share the rewards. This country borrowed its way into

:59:54.:59:59.

trouble, now we're going to earn our way out. And I commend the

:59:59.:00:09.
:00:09.:00:11.

George Osborne, congratulated by David Cameron. He has delivered a

:00:11.:00:14.

Budget which is radical in many ways. There are some far-reaching

:00:14.:00:18.

changes. We will be going back to the House in a moment to see what

:00:18.:00:23.

the Labour Party have to say. Let's just go through some of the main

:00:23.:00:33.
:00:33.:00:41.

brochures, which are as follows... That's a very big increase in the

:00:41.:00:48.

income tax personal allowance. So, some significant changes there.

:00:48.:00:51.

Let's have a look at some of the other main measures before we go

:00:51.:00:55.

back to the House. Child benefit to be gradually withdrawn for those

:00:55.:01:00.

earning more than �50,000. So, that plan has been adjusted, it is going

:01:00.:01:10.
:01:10.:01:10.

to be taken out after �50,000. The new stamp duty rate will be 7%,

:01:10.:01:14.

that's for properties valued at more than �2 million, so that's a

:01:14.:01:24.
:01:24.:01:26.

Mr Osborne, very keen to clamp down on those people acquiring property

:01:27.:01:33.

through these companies. We can have a look inside the chamber,

:01:33.:01:36.

because I think the Deputy Speaker is preparing to get towards the

:01:36.:01:39.

opposition response, this is a technical part of the session,

:01:39.:01:42.

where he basically has to put through some of the measures very

:01:42.:01:46.

quickly, because, as we heard in the speech, George Osborne was

:01:46.:01:50.

putting through some of the measures to be going into law in

:01:50.:01:58.

effect as soon as 6 o'clock this evening. Certainly with some of the

:01:59.:02:02.

duties. As we wait for Mr Miliband to get up, and it could be within a

:02:03.:02:07.

few seconds, so I may have to cut your off, Nick Robinson, but let's

:02:07.:02:12.

have a quick thought from you. First of all, this is the nightmare

:02:12.:02:19.

for any opposition leader, although every key measure was previewed, he

:02:19.:02:24.

has to get his toe and right on the top rate. He wants to say it was a

:02:24.:02:27.

mistake, but George Osborne is saying that he is raising more from

:02:27.:02:31.

the wealthy overall. How does he judged this, Mr Miliband,

:02:31.:02:35.

politically? It looked to me as if George Osborne was trying to set a

:02:35.:02:39.

trap for the Labour Party, to get them to commit to keeping that top

:02:39.:02:41.

them to commit to keeping that top rate of tax. Let's see what he has

:02:41.:02:46.

to say. Mr Deputy Speaker, the Chancellor

:02:46.:02:49.

spoke for an hour, but one of his phrases was missing, there was one

:02:49.:02:54.

thing he did not say - today marks the end of, we are all in it

:02:54.:03:04.
:03:04.:03:09.

together. Because after today's Budget... Order. I don't think we

:03:09.:03:12.

need you to lead the cheerleading. We have given respect to the

:03:12.:03:15.

Chancellor of the Exchequer, I expect the same respect to be given

:03:15.:03:21.

to the Leader of the Opposition. Because after to days Budget,

:03:21.:03:26.

millions will be paying more while millionaires pay less. Oh, yes. One

:03:26.:03:36.

year ago, the Chancellor said in his Budget speech, and I quote, now

:03:36.:03:41.

would not be the right time to remove the 50p tax rate, when we

:03:41.:03:46.

are asking others in our society... Is he saying he did not say that?

:03:46.:03:52.

He said, now would not be the right time to remove the 50p tax rate,

:03:52.:03:56.

when we are asking others in our society, on much lower incomes, to

:03:56.:04:01.

make sacrifices. That is exactly what he has done. Tax credits cut,

:04:01.:04:07.

child benefit taken away, fuel duty rise in, and what has he chosen to

:04:07.:04:11.

make his priority? For Britain's millionaires, a massive income tax

:04:11.:04:18.

cut each and every year. Mr Deputy Speaker, the fairness test for this

:04:18.:04:22.

Budget was whether the Chancellor used every penny he could to help

:04:22.:04:26.

middle-income families who are squeezed - he has failed that test.

:04:26.:04:31.

Anyone who listened to the Chancellor will be asking the same

:04:31.:04:34.

question - what planet are he and the Prime Minister living on? One

:04:34.:04:39.

million young people out of work, 50 businesses going bust every day,

:04:40.:04:43.

a cost-of-living crisis for families, they promised change, but

:04:43.:04:49.

things have got worse, not better. What did he promised us in last

:04:49.:04:54.

year's Budget? He said he would, and I quote, but you're in the tank

:04:54.:05:01.

of the British economy. He promised growth of 2.5% in 2012. Today he

:05:01.:05:06.

comes to the House and tells us it will be just 0.8%. Growth down last

:05:06.:05:11.

year, growth down this year, growth down next year. Every time he comes

:05:11.:05:14.

to the House, the offers a different excuse, but the reality

:05:14.:05:22.

is that his plan has failed. Last year, Mr Deputy Speaker, he told us

:05:23.:05:28.

unemployment would peak in 2011, and what has he delivered? We are

:05:28.:05:33.

into 2012, and unemployment is rising month upon month upon month.

:05:33.:05:38.

His plan has failed. And he promised us also, Mr Deputy Speaker,

:05:38.:05:42.

last year, the deficit would be gone by the end of the parliament.

:05:42.:05:46.

But today, he admits he is borrowing more than �150 billion

:05:46.:05:51.

more than he said he would. His plan has failed. And in the face of

:05:51.:05:57.

failure, what does he offer? Not a change in economic strategy, not a

:05:57.:06:01.

guarantee of jobs for the young unemployed, not targeting every

:06:01.:06:07.

penny he could at working families, no. We know the driving ambition of

:06:07.:06:12.

this Budget for the Chancellor was to deliver a tax cut for people

:06:12.:06:20.

earning �150,000 a year. There are 30 million taxpayers in this

:06:20.:06:27.

country, this policy will do absolutely nothing for 29 million

:06:27.:06:33.

of them. How could the priority for our country be an income tax cut

:06:33.:06:37.

for the richest 1% at a time when the squeezed middle are facing

:06:37.:06:42.

rising petrol prices, higher energy bills, tax credits and child

:06:42.:06:45.

benefit being cut? Think of what he could have done with the money, he

:06:45.:06:48.

could have reversed his cuts to tax credits, he could have done

:06:48.:06:52.

something for pensioners, and in fact, I think there is a tax rise

:06:52.:06:55.

for pensioners hidden in the detail of this Budget. He could have done

:06:55.:06:57.

of this Budget. He could have done more to undo the damage on child

:06:57.:07:00.

benefit, but he claims he cannot afford it. Let me tell the

:07:00.:07:03.

afford it. Let me tell the Chancellor, every time in the

:07:03.:07:07.

future he tries to justify an unfair decision by saying times are

:07:07.:07:12.

tough, we will remind him, he is the man who chose to spend hundreds

:07:12.:07:19.

of millions of pound on those who need it least. Wrong choices, wrong

:07:19.:07:28.

priorities, wrong values. Out of touch, same old Tories. Let's come

:07:28.:07:36.

to his claims on stamp duty. There are 300,000 people benefiting each

:07:36.:07:42.

and every year from his top rate tax cut, there are 4,000 houses

:07:42.:07:49.

sold each year for more than �2 million, so 99% of those who gain

:07:49.:07:53.

from his millionaire's tax cut will be totally unaffected by the rise

:07:53.:07:58.

in stamp duty. And they will get a massive windfall from this

:07:58.:08:03.

Chancellor. Now, Mr Deputy Speaker, the Chancellor did not tell us what

:08:03.:08:09.

this meant in pounds and pence. Oh, the Prime Minister thinks the

:08:09.:08:12.

Chancellor did say how much each person will gain as a result of the

:08:12.:08:20.

top rate tax cut, but he didn't. And I am going to tell him how much.

:08:20.:08:23.

There are 14,000 people earning more than �1 million in Britain.

:08:23.:08:28.

The Chancellor's decision today means each of them get a tax cut

:08:28.:08:35.

not of �1,000, not of �5,000 or �10,000, a tax cut of more than

:08:35.:08:45.
:08:45.:08:50.

�40,000. Order. It is not good for the opposition to not allow the

:08:50.:08:56.

Leader of the Opposition to speak! Ed Miliband. Not burst -- not just

:08:56.:09:00.

this year, but for every year. And what happens to those families who

:09:00.:09:04.

earn in one year half of what the Chancellor has so casually given

:09:04.:09:09.

away to the richest in the last hour, families on �20,000 a year, a

:09:09.:09:13.

nurse or lorry-driver. Even after the personal allowance change, they

:09:13.:09:17.

are not going to be better off, they're going to be worse off. Put

:09:17.:09:22.

aside the VAT rise and fall of the other tax rises, from this April

:09:22.:09:29.

alone, there will be a further �253 a year worse off. -- they will be.

:09:29.:09:32.

All he is doing for ordinary families is giving with one hand

:09:32.:09:37.

and taking far more away with the other. It is a millionaire's budget

:09:37.:09:41.

which squeezes the middle. Wrong choices, wrong priorities, wrong

:09:41.:09:48.

values, out of touch, same old Tories. Under his tax cut, a banker

:09:48.:09:56.

earning �5 million will get an extra �240,000 each year. Let's

:09:56.:10:00.

called this what it really is, the Government's very own banker's

:10:00.:10:08.

bonus. Now, presumably, Mr Deputy Speaker, he wants us to believe

:10:08.:10:11.

that the �240,000 tax cut is necessary to make them work harder,

:10:11.:10:17.

the bankers. It is one rule for them, and another for everyone else.

:10:17.:10:21.

Because this April, the Chancellor will be telling a family working

:10:21.:10:25.

for 16 hours on the minimum wage that if they do not work more hours,

:10:25.:10:30.

they will lose nearly �4,000 in tax credits. It tells you everything

:10:30.:10:35.

you need to know about the values of the Chancellor and the Prime

:10:35.:10:40.

Minister - the poor will only work harder by making them poorer, to

:10:40.:10:44.

which will only work harder by making them richer. Wrong choices,

:10:44.:10:49.

wrong values, wrong priorities, same old Tories. And while

:10:49.:10:53.

everybody else is squeezed, what is the Chancellor's priority? It is

:10:53.:10:56.

the massive tax cut for his Christmas card list. The Chancellor

:10:56.:11:06.
:11:06.:11:07.

talk a lot about tax transparency, let's have some, Mr Deputy Speaker.

:11:07.:11:11.

I think you need to come down, it is not good for you, it is not good

:11:11.:11:18.

for the House. Ed Miliband... have some tax transparency. Hands

:11:18.:11:21.

up in the Cabinet if you're going to benefit from the income tax cut.

:11:21.:11:31.
:11:31.:11:42.

Come on. Come on. Order. Order! I have looked at you twice, I think

:11:42.:11:52.

we need a little bit of silence from you. He is the man who said,

:11:52.:11:56.

sunlight is the best disinfectant. So here's the challenge, just not

:11:56.:11:59.

if you're going to benefit from it, shake your head if you're not. Come

:11:59.:12:09.
:12:09.:12:15.

on. Come on. Come on, we've got plenty of time. Order. Both sides

:12:15.:12:19.

of the House will come to order. The Leader of the Opposition will

:12:19.:12:25.

be heard. In the same way that the courtesy was given to the

:12:25.:12:30.

Chancellor. It is only right that the country should hear what the

:12:30.:12:37.

opposition has got to say. And I do not need any examples from you.

:12:38.:12:47.
:12:48.:12:48.

more chance - nod or shake your head, are you going to benefit? Mr

:12:48.:12:53.

Deputy Speaker, I have got one thing to say to him - let sunshine

:12:53.:13:01.

win the day. But I hear it is good news for him, Mr Deputy Speaker,

:13:01.:13:11.
:13:11.:13:17.

now he is going to be able to buy Order. We will not have any

:13:17.:13:21.

clapping in the chamber. Seriously, salmon it is doing this House and

:13:21.:13:26.

its reputation any good when we cannot hear the Leader of the

:13:26.:13:35.

Opposition. And Mr Deputy Speaker, what about the hapless a compass,

:13:35.:13:38.

the Deputy Prime Minister? I do have to say, only the Liberal

:13:38.:13:43.

Democrats could be done enough to think a George Osborne budget is a

:13:43.:13:48.

Robin Hood budget. Calamity Clegg strikes again. This is what he said

:13:48.:13:54.

to us a few months ago about the 50p tax rate - month no IFS, no

:13:54.:13:59.

buts, I do not believe the priority at a time like this is to give a

:13:59.:14:02.

tax cut to a tiny, tiny number of people who are much better off than

:14:03.:14:10.

anybody else. The party that once followed Lloyd George, now reduced

:14:10.:14:14.

to following George Osborne. The party that delivered the peoples

:14:14.:14:20.

budget of 1909, supporting the millionaires' budget of 2012. They

:14:20.:14:26.

should be ashamed. For all the talk, all the briefing, the Deputy Prime

:14:26.:14:30.

Minister has done what he has done on every big issue, from tuition

:14:30.:14:36.

fees to the betrayal on the NHS, he has rolled over and said, Yes,

:14:36.:14:39.

Prime Minister. The truth is that for ordinary families, it is

:14:39.:14:43.

hurting but it is not working, and we know why, because this

:14:43.:14:50.

government has been cutting too Fire and too fast. What did the

:14:50.:14:54.

Chancellor say last August about America's more balanced deficit

:14:54.:14:58.

reduction plan? He said this - those who spend the whole of the

:14:58.:15:01.

past year telling us to follow the American example need to answer

:15:01.:15:05.

this simple question, why has the US economy grow more slowly than

:15:05.:15:10.

the UK? Mr Deputy Speaker, the numbers are in, the Chancellor is

:15:10.:15:15.

plain wrong. The US economy grew at 1.7% last year, twice the rate of

:15:15.:15:20.

ours. This government has run out of excuses, it is they go mistakes

:15:20.:15:30.

which are damaging our future, it Every scheme he has put forward so

:15:30.:15:36.

far has failed. Halfs the big idea of his first Budget? The national

:15:36.:15:39.

insurance holiday. We didn't hear much about the national insurance

:15:39.:15:43.

holiday today. It is no wonder because he told us in his June

:15:43.:15:49.

Budget that it would help 400,000 firms. He missed his target by 97%.

:15:49.:15:53.

The Chancellor's plan has failed and what about the centrepiece of

:15:53.:15:58.

last year's Budget? It is easy to forget now, but it was called the

:15:58.:16:02.

Budget for Growth. Now this one is my favourite. It is the business

:16:02.:16:08.

growth fund. The business growth fund. Six regional offices open and

:16:08.:16:16.

how many businesses benefiting? Six. One...

:16:16.:16:17.

LAUGHTER One for each office. The

:16:17.:16:21.

Chancellor's plan has failed. We needed a plan for growth that will

:16:21.:16:24.

work, we need add guarantee on youth jobs, we need add British

:16:24.:16:28.

investment bank to help small business, but on growth, on jobs

:16:28.:16:31.

and on how we pay our way in the world, this chancellor has failed.

:16:31.:16:36.

Now on the proposal on film tax relief. Let me say this, let me say

:16:36.:16:44.

this, it is great to support great British success stories like Dowton

:16:44.:16:49.

Abbey and indeed, Wallace and Gromit. It is also important Mr

:16:49.:16:59.
:16:59.:17:03.

Deputy Speaker to support Downton a tale of a group of out-of-touch

:17:03.:17:09.

millionaires. Born to rule, but turn out to be not very good at it.

:17:09.:17:12.

Mr Deputy Speaker, it sounds familiar, doesn't it? We all know

:17:12.:17:18.

it is a costume drama. They think it is a fly on the wall document

:17:18.:17:21.

documentary! Mr Deputy Speaker there, Budget will be remembered

:17:21.:17:25.

for his failure on growth and jobs and the top rate tax cut. This

:17:25.:17:31.

isn't just a bad bad policy or a misjudgement, it destroys the claim

:17:31.:17:34.

the Prime Minister made, it destroys the claim the Prime

:17:34.:17:38.

Minister made about who he was and what he believed. What did he

:17:38.:17:43.

personally say in his aims and values document sent out to every

:17:43.:17:48.

Conservative Party member? The right test for our policies is how

:17:48.:17:53.

they help the most disadvantaged in society. It was called Built To

:17:53.:18:03.

Last. That was his test. A test this Budget Budget failed. He and

:18:03.:18:06.

the Chancellor have shown their true colours. They promised change.

:18:06.:18:12.

They have failed on growth. On jobs, on borrowing, on fairness. Unfair,

:18:12.:18:17.

out-of-touch for the few, not the many and unfair -- an unfair Budget

:18:17.:18:21.

built on economic failure. An unfair Budget from the same old

:18:21.:18:29.

Tories. A very lively House of Commons with

:18:29.:18:34.

Ed Miliband responding for Labour and as we heard a forceful attack

:18:34.:18:39.

on what he perceives to be the values of George Osborne and the

:18:39.:18:42.

rest of the coalition Government including the Lib Dems. We will

:18:42.:18:46.

have more response for you later because we hoped tor joined by

:18:46.:18:51.

Danny Alexander and by the Shadow Chancellor, Ed Balls. Stay with us

:18:51.:18:55.

for more response. If you want to keep on watching the debate in the

:18:55.:18:59.

Commons, it is lively, if you want to stay with that, you can switch

:18:59.:19:07.

over to BBC Parliament or you can go to the Democracy Live website.

:19:07.:19:15.

But I think it is a really good moment now before we talk to Nick

:19:15.:19:18.

and Stephanie and Robert in the studio and get their considered

:19:18.:19:22.

response on what we have seen. There is lots for us to consider.

:19:22.:19:26.

So let me take you through the main points of George Osborne's third

:19:26.:19:30.

Budget here. We're going to start with personal taxes because there

:19:30.:19:35.

were big changes here. The 50 pence income tax rate to be reduced to 45

:19:35.:19:41.

pence in the pound from next April. That's from 2013. Let's look at

:19:41.:19:45.

personal allowances, the income tax allowance to be increased to �9,205,

:19:46.:19:50.

that's from next April. That will be an expensive move. We can talk

:19:50.:19:55.

to ministers later about how they are fun that and the age related

:19:55.:19:59.

additional personal allowance is is to be phased out. Let's move on to

:19:59.:20:02.

child benefit. A controversial and sensitive area. There is change

:20:02.:20:07.

here from the original plans. Child benefit to be removed gradually

:20:07.:20:13.

from those earning over �50,000. A kind of tapering up to �60,000

:20:13.:20:18.

income if you are earning over �60,000, you lose child benefit so

:20:18.:20:23.

just to underline, only those with an income over �60,000 will lose

:20:23.:20:30.

the benefit. Stamp duty, again some radical change, for expensive

:20:30.:20:34.

properties, a new 7% stamp duty rate for properties valued above �2

:20:34.:20:38.

million. Again, we can talk about how much that is going to bring in

:20:38.:20:44.

and then a 15% stamp duty rate on homes which are equally expensive

:20:44.:20:47.

which are bought through a company. That's something the Chancellor has

:20:47.:20:51.

clamped down on. So property bought through a company to avoid stamp

:20:52.:20:55.

duty, well you can see the result of that avoidance 15% stamp duty

:20:55.:20:59.

levied on those transactions. What about the state of the economy? The

:20:59.:21:03.

health of the economy as the Chancellor presented it today? The

:21:03.:21:08.

office of budget responsibility, the growth forecast adjusted

:21:08.:21:14.

slightly, 2012 looks like being 0.8% growth. Again, picking up on

:21:14.:21:22.

Stephanie's word, it looks feeble still. 2013, 2%. 2014, 2.7%.

:21:22.:21:28.

Borrowing forecast because lots of this austerity package is down to

:21:28.:21:38.
:21:38.:21:40.

getting borrowing down. The latest bore owe forecast -- borrowing

:21:40.:21:47.

Staying with the big picture, public sector net debt forecast to

:21:47.:21:55.

peak. Now forecast to peak at 76.3% of GDP in 2014/15. What about

:21:55.:22:00.

unemployment, given the very high levels? The claimant count is to

:22:00.:22:06.

peak at 1.67 million this year. That's the forecast and inflation

:22:06.:22:12.

given that target of 2%, well it is to fall from 2.8% this year to

:22:12.:22:17.

around 1.9% next year. So much closer to the target set for the

:22:17.:22:21.

Bank of England there. Business, they have got changes to consider

:22:21.:22:26.

after today's Budget. Corporation tax is to be cut again from 24%

:22:26.:22:34.

from April and to 22% by the year 2014. So a significant and

:22:34.:22:38.

persistent change there to corporation tax. There will

:22:38.:22:46.

absimplified -- be a simplified payroll system for three million

:22:46.:22:52.

small businesses. They are trying to engineer growth in those areas.

:22:52.:22:57.

The economy and infrastructure, a report on south-east England

:22:57.:23:01.

airport capacity to be published this summer. Signs of rethinking

:23:01.:23:04.

there maybe in some areas, but certainly pointers as to what they

:23:05.:23:10.

might do in terms of airports and in terms of runways. Rail lines

:23:10.:23:13.

from Manchester to Sheffield, Blackpool, Bradford, they will be

:23:13.:23:17.

upgraded. A significant rail investment package and private

:23:17.:23:22.

investment in the road network. We have heard about that in the past

:23:22.:23:29.

few days. Duties, well alcohol duties, not much of a story

:23:29.:23:34.

attached to that. They are unchanged. But look at tobacco

:23:34.:23:38.

because tobacco duty is to rise to 5% above inflation and that means

:23:38.:23:43.

37 pence on a packet of cigarettes. A hefty rise there. There is a new

:23:43.:23:47.

20% duty on fruit machines and gambling machines so that's

:23:47.:23:50.

something that's going to be brought in to address what the

:23:50.:23:55.

Chancellor said was an anomaly in the system now. I think that's the

:23:55.:24:00.

summary, I think, it is more than enough for us to think about. I am

:24:00.:24:03.

going to bring Stephanie and Robert and Nick in. They have been

:24:03.:24:07.

following the content. We have got the books as well from the Treasury

:24:07.:24:12.

with the statistics in them. I will start with Nick because I'm just

:24:12.:24:15.

wondering really what you think will be written up as the main

:24:15.:24:20.

headline? Oh, the defining politics is clear, Ed Miliband believed this

:24:20.:24:23.

is the moment the Government lost it. He labelled this a

:24:23.:24:26.

millionaire's budget. He said that money is being handed out to people

:24:26.:24:30.

with vast amounts of it already while people are losing their tax

:24:30.:24:34.

credits, some, but few of them before losing their child benefit

:24:34.:24:37.

and others feeling squeezed. There is no doubt he does that while the

:24:37.:24:41.

Chancellor tries to say, "No, no, it is not about that. It is about

:24:41.:24:44.

opening economy for business and giving a big tax handout to the

:24:44.:24:48.

people in the middle." What we are seeing from the books is where the

:24:48.:24:50.

money comes from and the most striking one is this. You may

:24:50.:24:53.

remember the Chancellor talked about simpifying the tax allowances

:24:53.:24:58.

for older people. What this means Huw is all of us are allowed to

:24:58.:25:02.

earn a certain amount, it went up by a lot today before we pay income

:25:02.:25:06.

tax. Everybody Who doesn't earn more than �100,000. Now what

:25:06.:25:10.

happens at the moment is if you are older, you get a bigger allowance.

:25:10.:25:14.

If you are 65, it is bigger. If you are 75, it is a lot bigger and what

:25:14.:25:18.

the Chancellor has done today is to freeze that. You still get it if

:25:18.:25:24.

you are on it now, but if you are 62, 63, 64, you won't get that

:25:24.:25:27.

better allowance in future and if you are on it now, it will be

:25:27.:25:32.

frozen. This adds up to real money. We are talking of 2015/16 �1

:25:32.:25:38.

million. That's a lot of money. Over the period, it is more than �3

:25:38.:25:42.

billion. It is one of the ways he is getting the money he needs to do

:25:42.:25:45.

things is not by taking money away now from pensioners in the form of

:25:45.:25:50.

cash, but saying the better tax allowances you were due to get, you

:25:50.:25:54.

won't get anymore. Which was the Ed Miliband reference there to

:25:54.:25:58.

pensioners also bearing some of the burden from today's changes? That's

:25:58.:26:01.

right. And it is a complicated thing. It is not about something

:26:01.:26:05.

that you have got now that gets taken away, but if you have done

:26:05.:26:11.

nothing, you would have had a steady inflation increase if you

:26:11.:26:14.

are now a pensioner, you won't get anymore. If you are not yet a

:26:14.:26:19.

pensioner, but you will be in a few years time, you will get the same

:26:19.:26:23.

personal allowance you get if you are somebody under the age of 65,

:26:23.:26:28.

but it raises a lot. Stephanie, what strikes you? Trying

:26:28.:26:32.

to unpick the figures and trying to see what led to the changes and how

:26:32.:26:36.

he is trying to fund them. What would you pick out? It is a tribute

:26:36.:26:42.

to the breadth of the chancellors kingdom that -- chancellor's

:26:42.:26:47.

kingdom that you can have these changes and in the enall the big

:26:47.:26:52.

things in -- end all the big big things are still in place. At the

:26:52.:27:02.
:27:02.:27:26.

end of our or five years, he is not . All that is to off set what he is

:27:26.:27:31.

spending on raising the personal allowance which is serious money,

:27:31.:27:36.

�3.5 billion. Also that other headline tax rate cut for

:27:36.:27:41.

corporation tax is going to go down by an additional 1% on top of what

:27:41.:27:44.

he had said. Now, of course, the most controversial thing will be

:27:44.:27:48.

this claim that he is not spending anything on reducing the top rate

:27:48.:27:53.

of tax from 50 to 45. It is interesting, looking at this study,

:27:53.:27:59.

he is appealing to the study by the HMRC on the effect of that new tax

:27:59.:28:03.

and it is interesting because if there hadn't been any change in

:28:03.:28:06.

behaviour, if the rich people hadn't done anything to avoid the

:28:06.:28:10.

tax, he would be losing �3 billion, this says, by this decision and

:28:10.:28:15.

that would be, he would be giving in a ses �3 billion -- sense �3

:28:15.:28:22.

billion to the very rich. But the HMRC reckon that he is not giving

:28:22.:28:25.

anything away or that he is giving �100 million away because they

:28:25.:28:31.

changed their behaviour sop much. One examp -- so much. One example

:28:31.:28:38.

they reckon that �18 billion of income was shifted in the year that

:28:38.:28:44.

the top rate of tax came in. What is interesting, the Office for

:28:44.:28:47.

Budget Responsibility signed off on this assessment so many people will

:28:48.:28:51.

debate it, but it is not something that can be questioned on that

:28:51.:28:57.

basis. Well, that's fascinating. Robert?

:28:57.:29:01.

This will be seen by businesses as good news for them. The benefit to

:29:01.:29:07.

them in cash terms, the Treasury estimates of this 1% cut in the

:29:07.:29:14.

corporation tax cut is �800 million a year which 2014/15 which is a

:29:14.:29:17.

substantial amount of additional cash that they get to keep and the

:29:17.:29:24.

Chancellor hopes they will invest in jobs and in new kit to improve

:29:24.:29:27.

the the productive potential of the country. The other thing that stood

:29:27.:29:34.

out for me are the enormous swings in essentially in tax avoidance,

:29:34.:29:39.

putting it in crude terms. There are these two big things happening

:29:39.:29:45.

for the wealthy, on the one hand, they are getting the top rate of

:29:45.:29:52.

tax reduced from 40% to 45%. But there is going to be a

:29:53.:29:56.

significant restriction on their ability to use allowances to reduce

:29:56.:30:06.
:30:06.:30:13.

Because of the way the wealthy will try and anticipate the future

:30:13.:30:19.

The way the wealthy will try and anticipate some of these future

:30:19.:30:23.

measures. He thinks he will get a lot of this tax back in future

:30:23.:30:29.

years. Many accountants would say that you can pretty much bank on

:30:29.:30:33.

the avoidance happening, loss of revenue, whether you get it back in

:30:33.:30:37.

later years, that may be more questionable. Some will say he is

:30:37.:30:40.

taking a bit of a gamble in what he's doing to change the tax system

:30:41.:30:48.

for the very wealthy. We will be back in a second. We will toubg to

:30:48.:30:53.

Stephanie, Robert and Nick -- talk to Stephanie, Robert and Nick again.

:30:53.:30:57.

You are watching the BBC's special coverage of George Osborne's Budget.

:30:57.:31:02.

We will get more reaction now, before we are hopefully joined by

:31:02.:31:06.

the Chief Secretary, in a short while. I will join my colleague,

:31:07.:31:10.

Jon Sopel, who is outside Parliament.

:31:10.:31:15.

A lot of discussion from MPs who are filtering out of the Commons

:31:15.:31:21.

and the speech from the leader of the Labour Party. I am joined by

:31:21.:31:25.

Clare Perry, David Laws, former Chief Secretary to the Treasury and

:31:25.:31:35.
:31:35.:31:36.

Rachel Reece. A Budget for millionaires? It was

:31:36.:31:41.

to secure this recovery and remain a "safe haven". It had the biggest

:31:41.:31:46.

tax break for lower, middle income families for 30 year. Listening to

:31:46.:31:52.

the Labour leader having a coronary, trying to work up a narrative about

:31:52.:31:56.

millionaires and ignoring the fact... I wish he had read this.

:31:56.:32:01.

The richest people will pay five times more under this Budget.

:32:01.:32:05.

a potent headline, isn't it? Aren't we beyond political headlines? We

:32:05.:32:09.

need to get this country growing and give this huge, huge benefit to

:32:09.:32:14.

working people. 60% of whom are women in that income bracket. It

:32:14.:32:19.

was a very good day. David Laws, a while ago I spoke to your colleague,

:32:19.:32:23.

who said that is what the Tories wanted - as if he wanted nothing to

:32:23.:32:28.

do with this cut in the top rate of tax? I have spoken to Tim, he is

:32:28.:32:31.

delighted with this Budget. It does what the Liberal Democrats have

:32:31.:32:35.

been pushing for, which is to take millions of people, on low incomes

:32:35.:32:40.

out of tax and detective the centrepiece, the biggest

:32:40.:32:43.

expenditure item that people need help at the moment, people on low

:32:43.:32:49.

pay and middle earners in work, who will gain hugely as a result of the

:32:49.:32:53.

lifting of the tax allowance. We are happy, because it would have

:32:54.:32:59.

been wrong, at a time like this, if there had been a net givaway to the

:32:59.:33:04.

rich. This has a bigger country from the rich than before. We were

:33:04.:33:07.

hearing there, in that discussion, that the big sums of money are

:33:07.:33:11.

coming back - so it looks like you are taking money off pensioners to

:33:11.:33:15.

give to people on the top rate of pay a tax cut? The big sums are

:33:15.:33:19.

come from the fact that the Chancellor is able to release

:33:19.:33:22.

public expenditure from areas like Afghanistan, where we will not

:33:22.:33:27.

spend the money we committed. Also he is raising more from people on

:33:27.:33:31.

upper incomes than he is giving away on the 50p rate, which turns

:33:31.:33:35.

out according to the Office for Budget Responsibility, has raised a

:33:35.:33:39.

trivialal amount, because the tax system that Labour designed had

:33:39.:33:43.

symbolically high rates, but so many allowances that nobody has

:33:43.:33:48.

been paying this tax. It is a bad tax that damages enterprise.

:33:48.:33:53.

HMRC numbers show that 50p rate, brought in around �1 billion this

:33:53.:33:58.

year. That is not truly on numbers money could have been used to

:33:58.:34:02.

relief pressure on ordinary families. Instead 14,000

:34:03.:34:05.

millionaires will get a tax cut, this year, the year after and the

:34:05.:34:10.

year after that. That cannot be the right priority right now when

:34:10.:34:16.

ordinary families are seeing such a squeeze, stagnant wages, rising

:34:16.:34:19.

fuel, and food prices. The Government missed a chance to

:34:19.:34:24.

relief some of that pressure on ordinary families. I want to be

:34:24.:34:27.

clear about something - the coalition tomorrow, you are in

:34:27.:34:31.

power - will you overturn that? there was a Budget today and an

:34:31.:34:37.

election tomorrow, we would stick with the 50p rate. Put it back up.

:34:37.:34:40.

If there was an election next week, we cannot make promises for three

:34:40.:34:44.

years' time, but we are clear we would not be cutting the top rate

:34:44.:34:49.

of tax for the very richest 1% right now. Let me come back on a

:34:49.:34:55.

point that Clare and David have made about ordinary families. From

:34:55.:34:59.

next month the average family with children is going to be �530 worse

:34:59.:35:03.

off every year. Now, the change to the personal allowance, whilst

:35:03.:35:08.

welcome is only worth �170. So, we are going to see families next

:35:08.:35:12.

month struggling because of changes to tax credits which puts pressure

:35:12.:35:18.

on them. One thing I was concerned about was removing 50p while we had

:35:18.:35:21.

a public sector pay freeze. We are not doing that. This is a proposal

:35:21.:35:26.

for next year. I know Rachel has been busy and has not had a chance

:35:26.:35:31.

to read the facts. It is a tax which does not raise very much

:35:31.:35:34.

money. It cost �100 million in terms of the loss to the Treasury.

:35:34.:35:40.

Those people will be paying five times as much. For the first time

:35:40.:35:45.

we have produced this shows the richest are paying far more. I am

:35:45.:35:51.

so surprised that your party, supposedly on the side of hard-

:35:51.:35:55.

working families, is not cheering that we will see this increase to

:35:55.:36:01.

personal allowances. If we had not had these changes on taxes for the

:36:01.:36:05.

rich, which, in spite of the fact that Labour find this difficult to

:36:05.:36:08.

deal with, the truth is and it has been looked at by the Office for

:36:08.:36:10.

Budget Responsibility, an independent body - it will raise

:36:10.:36:16.

more from the rich than before. We can do more for people on lower and

:36:16.:36:19.

middle incomes. Labour should welcome this. But they cannot bring

:36:19.:36:23.

themselves to do so. I just said that I thought that the increase in

:36:23.:36:27.

the personal allowance was a welcome thing. I am saying it

:36:27.:36:34.

doesn't do.... We are raising for... It does not cancel out the charges

:36:34.:36:39.

on working tax credits, which will see many families lose out to the

:36:39.:36:44.

tune of �530. We are dealing a deficit left by your Government.

:36:44.:36:53.

Which is why you should not be.... Very briefly. The Government should

:36:53.:36:59.

crack down on tax avoidance, the tax loopholes at the top. They

:36:59.:37:03.

should not compensate by giving a tax cut to those at the top as well.

:37:03.:37:08.

I am going to have the final say. We are going draw stumps here. I

:37:08.:37:11.

don't think we will get agreement, however long you give me to carry

:37:11.:37:21.

on this discussion, they will not I am pleased to say that Danny

:37:21.:37:24.

Alexander has joined us, the Chief Secretary. It is good to have you

:37:24.:37:27.

with us. Thank you for coming in. Let's start with your party's

:37:27.:37:31.

policy on the 50p rate. You don't need me to tell you and the Spring

:37:31.:37:36.

Conference was very clear too, they wanted you to leave that where it

:37:36.:37:40.

was. What will you say to colleagues who say, we don't think

:37:40.:37:44.

this is right, it is giving out the wrong signals - why have you agreed

:37:44.:37:49.

to it? We went into this Budget with a big priority, to lift the

:37:49.:37:53.

income tax threshold, to get money into the pockets of people on low

:37:53.:37:56.

and middle incomes. That is what we have secured very successfully in

:37:56.:38:00.

this Budget. What we have a is a package of measures on the -- what

:38:00.:38:04.

we have is a package of measures on the richest. For a party that

:38:04.:38:09.

believes we should ask the wealthiest to pay more that we

:38:09.:38:13.

should not reduce the tax burden on the wealthiest, this is a good

:38:13.:38:17.

outcome. When we looked at the 50p rate, we saw it didn't work. It was

:38:17.:38:21.

not raising anything like the money Labour promised it would raise.

:38:21.:38:26.

There is a behaviour yalt response for stalling, -- behavioural

:38:26.:38:34.

response for stalling. To go from 50p-45p, �100 is all. Having been

:38:34.:38:38.

told it was a multibillion pound tax when it was introduced. Having

:38:38.:38:44.

put in place a cap on reliefs, a tycoon tax, if you like, having

:38:44.:38:50.

stamped down on stamp due avoidance. I think that is something which

:38:50.:38:54.

will make sure that the wealthiest are paying these new, real

:38:54.:38:58.

effective taxes that work. On the whole that is a balance that libs

:38:58.:39:04.

should be able to support. -- that Lib Dems should be able to support.

:39:04.:39:09.

On the 50p one because it will be such a big headline, as you know, I

:39:09.:39:12.

am wondering, two years ago, you made a speech at the conference and

:39:12.:39:17.

you said this 50p rate, a lot of people are avoiding tax, we will

:39:17.:39:21.

get them to pay the rate. Are you saying today that that failed that

:39:21.:39:26.

this exercise you had on people to stump up the proper rate of tax, as

:39:26.:39:30.

you see it, has been a failure and because of that you are giving them

:39:30.:39:34.

a tax cut. What is the logic? I said then, and repeat now,

:39:35.:39:38.

anybody who thinks this is the right time to reduce the tax burden

:39:38.:39:48.
:39:48.:39:49.

on the wealthiest, I believed that was cloud cue cue land.

:39:49.:39:53.

Did they have enough time to look at that, do you think? It is a

:39:53.:39:58.

quick review, in relative terms. Why didn't you give them two or

:39:58.:40:01.

three years? You should read the dense document which has been

:40:01.:40:07.

published. It is a clear, detailed review. I have spoken to experts in

:40:07.:40:12.

HMRC myself. They have all the evidence they need to make an...

:40:12.:40:19.

For example, how have wealthy people responded. In 2009-2010,

:40:19.:40:23.

wealthy people brought forward �14 billion-�16 billion of income in

:40:23.:40:27.

that year to avoid paying the rate when it came in. The assessments

:40:27.:40:31.

made of how much it would raise, to be chartable, were overoptimistic.

:40:31.:40:37.

So, you.... So you would continue it? It is on the basis of that

:40:37.:40:42.

evidence and HMRC's analysis, which has been orbited by the OBR, who

:40:42.:40:46.

say it is central, on that basis we have made that decision. The thing

:40:46.:40:49.

most important to me, as a Liberal Democrats, was to make sure the

:40:49.:40:53.

wealthy are paying more. They are paying for this change five times

:40:53.:40:57.

over, through taxes which cannot be dodged, in the way that the 50p

:40:57.:41:02.

rate was being. That is a good package. Especially when the main

:41:02.:41:11.

focus of this Budget, �14 billion over four years is going to an

:41:11.:41:15.

�1100 in the tax threshold. I think that is a great result for

:41:15.:41:18.

the working people of this country. It's a Budget for the millions, not

:41:18.:41:22.

for the millionaires, who are paying more. That's a good outcome

:41:22.:41:27.

for this country. We had Vince Cable, not very long ago, say a

:41:27.:41:31.

mansion tax and getting people to pay much more for the home they are

:41:31.:41:35.

already living in, is not a bad thought. It is a high-profile

:41:35.:41:39.

exchange for such a big change on your headline tax rate. We don't

:41:39.:41:43.

seem to have that. That clear exchange is not there for people to

:41:43.:41:48.

launch on to. Is that something you recognise will disappoint some of

:41:48.:41:51.

your colleagues and is a vulnerability for you? Of course

:41:51.:41:55.

some Liberal Democrats will be disappointed to see a mansion tax

:41:55.:42:04.

is not on this... In this Budget. Tackling the stamp duty regime, one

:42:04.:42:10.

thing we will bring in for people whose homes are owned by companies,

:42:10.:42:15.

is an annual charge. You might call it a mansion tax for tax dodgers,

:42:15.:42:19.

to ensure we are cracking down on stamp duty avoidance, getting in

:42:19.:42:22.

hundreds of millions of pounds more as a result of that. And also this

:42:22.:42:27.

cap on unlimited reliefs, which means that no longer will people

:42:27.:42:33.

earning millions of pounds be able to use the various tax reliefs to

:42:33.:42:36.

reduce their tax bill to almost zero. That is a big change. Isn't

:42:36.:42:41.

the issue of fairness that some of your members are concerned about is

:42:41.:42:44.

this, if you are a wealthy person who doesn't use those tax reliefs

:42:44.:42:49.

and there are plenty of them, you will get a massive tax cut as a

:42:49.:42:54.

result of this, at the same time that many ordinary people are

:42:54.:43:00.

losing tax credits and those on higher incomes are losing child

:43:00.:43:05.

benefit. There will be a lot who get a big tax cut when they are

:43:05.:43:10.

already rich. The two thing things are a massive tax cut for people on

:43:10.:43:20.

low and middle incomes. And a set of proposals on the

:43:20.:43:27.

wealthy which raise the tax on the wealthy five times over. As a group,

:43:28.:43:34.

maybe. There'll be individually wealthy people, who dodo not engage

:43:34.:43:38.

in the behaviour -- who do not engage in that behave your may be

:43:38.:43:42.

tens of thousands of pounds better off. What we have learned from the

:43:42.:43:45.

analysis is that the forecast for what people pay and the number of

:43:45.:43:50.

people paying that rate of tax, was massively exaggerated. We had a tax

:43:50.:43:55.

that didn't work. My minority was to cut taxes for people on low and

:43:55.:43:59.

middle income earners and make sure the wealthy paid more. That is what

:43:59.:44:04.

we have achieved. It is a good balance. You say your priority is

:44:04.:44:07.

low and middle income earners, but of course you would agree there are

:44:07.:44:12.

an awful lot of people, the poorest don't pay tax and they will not be

:44:12.:44:16.

helped by this at all. The money you are spending �3.5 billion on

:44:16.:44:18.

increasing the personal allowance, well at the same time the

:44:18.:44:22.

Chancellor has announced three times that in welfare cuts after

:44:22.:44:26.

2014. If you are right at the bottom of society, you are actually

:44:26.:44:29.

quite likely to be hammered by a decision which was taken in this

:44:29.:44:33.

Budget, which we are not paying attention to, because people here

:44:33.:44:38.

are not on benefits. Firstly, two million people paying income tax

:44:38.:44:42.

when this Government came in are no longer paying income tax. A lot of

:44:42.:44:49.

people working on low incomes pay no income tax. What he has drawn

:44:49.:44:53.

attention to is the fact that we have to make further spending

:44:53.:45:01.

reductions in 201015-2016. We set that out. What he set out were the

:45:01.:45:06.

trade-offs between departmental spending and expenditure, which

:45:06.:45:12.

includes welfare. We'll have to do another Spending Review over the

:45:12.:45:16.

next period of time, over the next year or two. In that Spending

:45:16.:45:21.

Review, we have to make decisions, as we did in 2010, but where those

:45:21.:45:27.

savings should be made. There is a trade-off. You could say that we

:45:27.:45:31.

need to take further steps because welfare is still one-third of all

:45:31.:45:35.

public expenditure in this country, to relief the burden on departments.

:45:35.:45:38.

The purpose of this being in the Budget document today, was to

:45:39.:45:45.

expose some trade-offs and provide a public debate, about the choices

:45:45.:45:55.
:45:55.:45:58.

which will have to be made in 2015- One of the big numbers in the

:45:58.:46:02.

budget but is this more than �2 billion of what is essentially tax

:46:02.:46:07.

avoidance by the highest earners, in advance of these tax changes,

:46:07.:46:12.

that's a massive tax saving, that these high earners, you expect them

:46:12.:46:16.

to go for. How can you be confident that you will get that money back

:46:16.:46:20.

in future years? As you yourself pointed out, these people are

:46:20.:46:24.

brilliant at dodging taxes. Well, what we have done is, we have taken

:46:24.:46:28.

the most realistic estimates of all of these sorts of things, about

:46:28.:46:31.

people's behavioural response to those changes. This is effectively

:46:31.:46:36.

a cashflow issue. If you added up over the years, there is a loss of

:46:36.:46:40.

between �100 million and �200 million over that period. I would

:46:40.:46:47.

say to you that in 2009-10, when we saw people dodging the 50p tax rate,

:46:47.:46:51.

that that cost the Exchequer more than �1 billion. What it does not

:46:51.:46:58.

change is that the underlying cost would be that �100 million a year,

:46:58.:47:01.

and it does not change the fact that the central thrust of this

:47:01.:47:07.

budget is big tax cuts for people on lower and middle incomes. Lots

:47:07.:47:13.

of points to cover, and I will let you back in again, Robert, the age-

:47:13.:47:20.

related personal allowance being phased out, what will that save?

:47:20.:47:24.

2016-17, that will save about �1 billion. What we're doing is

:47:24.:47:29.

simplifying the system, we have got a policy of getting peasant income

:47:29.:47:35.

tax to �10,000, and then it will keep rising beyond that. Rather

:47:35.:47:40.

than asking pensioners to fill in tax returns, it will be much easier

:47:40.:47:46.

to have a single allowance for everybody. It will not be a

:47:46.:47:50.

simplification, but it is effectively a tax rise in pensions.

:47:50.:47:54.

There will be no cash losers from this policy, because it is a

:47:54.:47:59.

freezing of the allowance for existing pensioners. We have also

:47:59.:48:03.

announced the largest increase in the basic state greater pension

:48:03.:48:06.

there has ever been, and also the move to a single tier pension, for

:48:06.:48:10.

the first time, getting rid of a lot of complexity facing pensioners

:48:10.:48:14.

in the means-tested system, and moving to a single figure of about

:48:14.:48:19.

�140 a week for all pensioners. So, there is a lot of simplification.

:48:19.:48:22.

Pensioners will pay more tax on a greater share of their income, than

:48:22.:48:27.

they would have done before the change. What we are doing is saying

:48:27.:48:32.

that for new pensioners, who were reach retirement age from the start

:48:32.:48:37.

of the next financial year, that they should have the same personal

:48:37.:48:42.

allowance, as working people, and of course we are only really one

:48:42.:48:46.

step further away from the 10,000 personal allowance which we as the

:48:46.:48:51.

Liberal Democrats set in our pledge. We are close to that now. We think

:48:51.:48:56.

it is a fair change, and one which does save money, I accept that.

:48:56.:48:59.

the clear, lot of pensioners will be worse off because of that move,

:48:59.:49:04.

will they not? There will be no cash losers, but it does yield some

:49:04.:49:07.

revenue, because we are not uprating the allowance in terms of

:49:07.:49:11.

inflation. More than half of pensioners do not pay tax at all,

:49:11.:49:15.

but of course, there will be some who will have been expecting their

:49:15.:49:19.

allowance to rise, who will not see that. But as soon as the general

:49:19.:49:24.

personal allowance catches up, then those two things will be aligned,

:49:24.:49:28.

which will mean a simpler tax system, but also a fair one, where

:49:28.:49:32.

working people and pensioners will not be differentiated in terms of

:49:32.:49:38.

how much they are allowed to earn before they pay tax. I said within

:49:38.:49:44.

the next few years, we have not set a date. If I said that, I didn't

:49:44.:49:50.

mean to. Over the course of this Parliament, clearly we will have to

:49:50.:49:57.

do another Spending Review. But in a sense, what I was trying to say

:49:57.:50:02.

is that well in advance of that, what we're saying in the Budget

:50:02.:50:05.

today is designed to provoke a bit of a public debate about how we can

:50:06.:50:09.

take those things forward, in the fairest way, and where appropriate,

:50:09.:50:14.

to make savings in the future. Robinson, when you come to analyse

:50:14.:50:20.

this later on, what will you be saying, so that Danny Alexander can

:50:20.:50:23.

answer it, about the political thrust of his Budget and the

:50:23.:50:26.

potential pros and cons for the Government, given the response we

:50:26.:50:31.

have had from Labour today? What is fascinating is that it is a huge

:50:31.:50:35.

political gamble. You are gambling on the fact that because you can

:50:35.:50:39.

say overall the wealthy pay more, that people will tolerate the fact

:50:39.:50:43.

that tens of thousands of very rich people will get a significant tax

:50:43.:50:48.

cut. And Labour on gambling on the fact that they can point at you on

:50:48.:50:52.

the opposite benches and say, which of you guys are going to benefit

:50:52.:50:56.

while other people are suffering? I actually wonder why you think that

:50:56.:51:01.

is a gamble which will pay off? For me, as a Liberal Democrat, it was

:51:01.:51:05.

to get as big an increase in the personal allowance as possible.

:51:05.:51:10.

This helps to make sure that we can go to �9,205, much further than

:51:10.:51:14.

people expected. At a time when families are under pressure, when

:51:14.:51:19.

people really need money to help them with all the issues which

:51:19.:51:22.

families are facing, I think this is the best policy which we have as

:51:22.:51:26.

a government, that any party in this country has, to help people

:51:26.:51:30.

and to encourage work. It is a policy which came from the front

:51:30.:51:32.

page of the Liberal Democrat manifesto, and as a Liberal

:51:32.:51:35.

Democrat, I am very proud of the big step we have made in this

:51:35.:51:41.

Budget. I am being given strict orders to go to go. Thanks for

:51:41.:51:45.

fielding those questions. That was the chief secretary, who will be

:51:45.:51:50.

doing more defending of the Budget in the coming hours. We want some

:51:50.:51:53.

more reaction, and I mentioned that we had business people and people

:51:53.:51:57.

representing other parts of the local community, up in Stratford-

:51:57.:52:03.

Upon-Avon. My colleague Jo Coburn is with them. Over to you. Yes,

:52:03.:52:09.

well, the wheels of industry have continued to turn here at Pashley

:52:09.:52:12.

Cycles in Stratford-Upon-Avon, while the Chancellor was delivering

:52:12.:52:16.

his Budget. He promised it would be a budget for business, let's find

:52:16.:52:21.

out if local business people agree, having watched it with me. I have a

:52:22.:52:24.

representative of the Federation of Small Businesses, someone who runs

:52:24.:52:29.

a restaurant, and somebody who runs a jewellery company. First of all,

:52:29.:52:32.

you mentioned the tax simplification which George Osborne

:52:32.:52:36.

talk about - is that going to make a big difference? It will make a

:52:36.:52:39.

huge difference. We are pleased to see that the Chancellor has taken

:52:39.:52:45.

on board the recommendations by the Office for Tax Simplification. The

:52:45.:52:48.

burden of compliance on tax is a big issue for small businesses.

:52:48.:52:53.

Making it simpler for them an easier and moving to a cash

:52:53.:52:57.

accounting basis will certainly help. Small businesses, in their

:52:57.:53:04.

earning capacity, 77,000 -- �77,000 turnover, that is just where we

:53:04.:53:09.

wanted it to be pitched. One disappointment for us was that a

:53:09.:53:12.

lot has been said about procurement for small businesses. We know that

:53:12.:53:17.

the Government are aiming at 25% of contracts, government contracts, to

:53:17.:53:22.

go to small firms. This is big public sector projects. Absolutely,

:53:22.:53:26.

and there is this pot of money to be spent on them, but what we did

:53:26.:53:29.

not here today is how it is going to be administered and maintained.

:53:29.:53:33.

We would like to see a Small Business Administration department

:53:33.:53:36.

within the Government, at Cabinet level, to oversee this kind of

:53:36.:53:40.

thing, to make sure that small businesses do get a chunk of that

:53:40.:53:43.

pot.. It is all about growth, that is what the Government keep talking

:53:43.:53:49.

about, but in terms of a boost to small businesses, you were talking

:53:49.:53:55.

about national insurance - nothing was done. Nothing at all. The fact

:53:55.:53:59.

that national insurance still sits at 13.8%, it is simply a tax on

:53:59.:54:03.

jobs. A reduction on that would have an immediate impact on cash

:54:03.:54:08.

flow, which would result in us being able to go out and create

:54:08.:54:13.

more jobs, not just the jobs which we are sustaining by keeping our

:54:13.:54:16.

own worked voice on, but by employing the long-term unemployed..

:54:16.:54:24.

So you would have gone and employed more people? Absolutely. -- our own

:54:24.:54:33.

work force. You have talk about the cap on non-EU immigration - how has

:54:33.:54:36.

that affected you like it it has affected the whole Asian

:54:36.:54:40.

hospitality sector. We are not able to bring over skilled labour from

:54:40.:54:43.

the Asian sub-continent any more. Unfortunately a cap has been put in

:54:44.:54:49.

place, which has not been met with any kind of local Labour, so we

:54:49.:54:53.

have created a vacuum which is not being met by skilled labour being

:54:53.:55:00.

created locally. Skilled labour has now become a shortage. Restaurants

:55:00.:55:03.

and small Asian businesses are simply closing because we do not

:55:03.:55:08.

have the expertise any more. How will you get around that? We have

:55:08.:55:13.

now actually started creating skilled labourer sales, at

:55:13.:55:17.

educating local Labour, and the hope is that within three or four

:55:17.:55:20.

years we will have created our own organic skilled labour.

:55:20.:55:23.

expectation was that the Chancellor might do something more on fuel

:55:23.:55:28.

duty, he didn't... No, that is very duty, he didn't... No, that is very

:55:28.:55:31.

disappointing. It is a subject which needs to be tackled, because

:55:31.:55:36.

every business, everybody needs fuel, to get to a construction site

:55:36.:55:41.

or to any part of their working life. That needs to be tackled now.

:55:41.:55:45.

What about the cut in corporation tax, does that actually help you or

:55:45.:55:53.

your businesses? It definitely helps us, because that 2%, it is a

:55:53.:55:58.

big part of our operations. We know now that we can put that money back

:55:58.:56:02.

into the company. What will you do in terms of growth, when you say

:56:02.:56:06.

you will be able to put it back in good stead it will go into training,

:56:06.:56:16.
:56:16.:56:19.

apprentices, and employing people. Verdict, each of you, briefly?

:56:19.:56:22.

Disappointing in many areas, a couple of wins but we would have

:56:22.:56:26.

liked to have seen more. corporation tax cut is welcome but

:56:26.:56:30.

it is not the same size as plc's and large corporations are getting.

:56:30.:56:35.

I would enjoy the 4% which they are getting. Satisfactory for the

:56:35.:56:39.

construction industry, but the fuel, that needed to be looked at, that

:56:39.:56:46.

is disappointing. We are going to bring our expert in now. Let's have

:56:46.:56:50.

a look at some e-mails. This one about the tax thresholds, does the

:56:51.:56:55.

increase in non-taxable income have an impact on the salary level at

:56:55.:56:59.

which 40% income tax is payable? Yes, it does. Although the benefit

:56:59.:57:04.

for people paying basic rate tax would be �220 a year, because the

:57:04.:57:09.

tax allowance will rise by �1,100, the Chancellor said only a quarter

:57:09.:57:14.

of that would go to the people on higher rate tax. Currently it

:57:14.:57:19.

starts at �42,000, that will fall. They have not told us how much yet,

:57:19.:57:22.

but it will fall quite significantly. Current% tax will be

:57:22.:57:27.

payable by more people as a result. Also pensioners will suffer,

:57:27.:57:31.

because the extra tax allowance for the over-65s is going to be frozen

:57:31.:57:39.

and phased out, anyone who reaches 65 after a certain date will not

:57:39.:57:43.

get the tax allowance. One other issue widely discussed was child

:57:43.:57:46.

benefit, and there has been an awful lot of lobbying about changes

:57:46.:57:51.

to that. We have got an e-mail from someone in Cheshire, I have

:57:51.:57:54.

recently become a father, and whilst I am a higher rate taxpayer,

:57:54.:57:58.

my wife does not work and finances are tight. The poorly thought-

:57:58.:58:01.

through approach to cutting Balfron if it is something I feel strongly

:58:01.:58:08.

about. -- to cutting child benefit is something I feel strongly about.

:58:08.:58:12.

As long as the higher earner in a couple earns less than �50,000,

:58:12.:58:16.

child benefit do not be affected. As soon as the higher earner earns

:58:16.:58:22.

more than �50,000, that person will be taxed to take away 1% of the

:58:22.:58:28.

child benefit for every �100. That could be an extra tax charge of

:58:28.:58:32.

17.5%, if you have two children. It will not be a cliff edge, but a

:58:32.:58:37.

series of steps to fall down. By the time the higher earner has

:58:37.:58:40.

�60,000, it will have disappeared completely. The problem still

:58:40.:58:45.

remains, how do you know who's in a couple. HMRC does not have those

:58:45.:58:49.

records, so people will have to be honest about whether they live with

:58:49.:58:52.

someone, whether that person has children, whether that person gets

:58:52.:59:02.
:59:02.:59:03.

child benefit. That's all from last year for the moment. Thank you very

:59:03.:59:08.

much and thanks to our guests in Stratford-Upon-Avon. We will keep

:59:08.:59:12.

on with responses away from Westminster. We can go over to the

:59:12.:59:18.

City, to join Susannah Streeter. No surprises here, because of many of

:59:18.:59:22.

those measures were trailed beforehand. We did get more detail

:59:22.:59:25.

on how much the Government was going to pay back out of the

:59:25.:59:28.

deficit, and we got those details about tax breaks for certain

:59:28.:59:31.

sectors of industry, the creative industry, the pharmaceutical

:59:31.:59:36.

industry... We can have a chat with Jaime now to hear some more about

:59:36.:59:41.

the bond markets. I think it was good news for the UK debt market.

:59:41.:59:50.

We know that until 2016-17, there will be �11 billion less of gilts

:59:50.:59:58.

issued. However, the markets have been quite muted. We saw a little

:59:58.:00:01.

bit of an upsurge when the Chancellor started to talk, but in

:00:01.:00:07.

the longer term chuck, it is a very muted movement. When we go to the

:00:07.:00:13.

creative industries, this is a prize for ITV, you can see that

:00:13.:00:16.

when that allowance for creative industry was made, we saw the stock

:00:17.:00:23.

going higher, to its highest of the day. Of course, ITV has had success

:00:23.:00:26.

recently with productions like Downton Abbey, being exported

:00:26.:00:29.

abroad, something the Chancellor wants to see more of. He also wants

:00:29.:00:32.

more money to be raised by increased stamp duty on very

:00:32.:00:42.
:00:42.:00:43.

Let's talk to a City analyst. How will it boost spending and growth?

:00:43.:00:47.

I like to call it the Chelsea tax. The hope is that those on lower

:00:47.:00:51.

incomes will have enough money to buy new cookers and maybe buy new

:00:51.:00:55.

cars and buy new things and get the economy going. That's the hope, but

:00:55.:00:59.

that's more of a long-term prospect than a short one.

:00:59.:01:02.

What was missing in the Budget? was the short-term effect. It takes

:01:02.:01:07.

too long for these things to take take effect. We need money quickly.

:01:07.:01:10.

Remember, we have had announcements like this before. It is the

:01:10.:01:15.

execution that is the problem and right now we have no indication of

:01:15.:01:19.

execution. You talk about the credit easing

:01:19.:01:23.

measures announced. Do you feel it is too similar to what has been

:01:23.:01:27.

announced before? We have announced it but getting the money to the

:01:27.:01:31.

public is the hardest thing and we have no indication that it will

:01:31.:01:33.

happen any better this time than before.

:01:33.:01:36.

What do you think of the Budget? am happy. Long-term, we are going

:01:36.:01:40.

to make the UK the centre of the creative industries. We are going

:01:40.:01:44.

to make it the centre of pharmaceutical industries. The

:01:44.:01:49.

centre of the IT industries and the centre of hi-tech. But we have got

:01:49.:01:52.

to get there and and that's the challenge now.

:01:52.:01:57.

Thank you very much. So that's the real challenge particularly really

:01:57.:02:02.

for UK Plc at the moment with the economy still sluggish and the rate

:02:02.:02:06.

of unemployment still high. The effect on the markets for now

:02:06.:02:10.

relatively muted, of course, it will be the external factors which

:02:10.:02:15.

will weigh down on the markets. More on what is happening on the

:02:15.:02:20.

euro debt crisis and the US recovery as well. That's all for me

:02:20.:02:27.

Susannah Streeter in the City. You are watching live coverage and

:02:27.:02:32.

analysis, response to the Chancellor's speech on BBC Two and

:02:32.:02:35.

on the BBC News Channel. I have to say goodbye to viewers in

:02:35.:02:44.

Scotland because it is time for you to join Andrew Kerr with Politics

:02:44.:02:51.

Scotland. We will see you later on. If you have just roind us, --

:02:51.:02:55.

joined us, let's bring you up-to- date and pick up with Stephanie

:02:55.:02:58.

Flanders and Nick Robinson and Robert Peston. If you have just

:02:58.:03:01.

come in, this is what George Osborne announced. One of the

:03:01.:03:07.

biggest headlines, the 50 pence top income tax rate is to be cut to 45

:03:07.:03:11.

pence in the pound. That's from April next year. Income tax,

:03:11.:03:18.

personal allowance to be increased by a big amount to �9,200 in April

:03:18.:03:23.

2013. That change coming in a year's time and the age related

:03:23.:03:27.

personal allowance to be phased out. We discussed the impact on that

:03:27.:03:31.

with pensioners with Danny Alexander a short while ago.

:03:31.:03:35.

More main measures from the Budget Speech. Child benefit withdrawn

:03:35.:03:40.

from people earning over �50,000. That is an adjustment to the

:03:40.:03:44.

original scheme so fewer people now caught in this proposal. And for

:03:44.:03:49.

those earning over �60, there will be no child benefit. A new stamp

:03:49.:03:54.

duty rate of 7%. That is on properties above �2 million.

:03:54.:03:59.

In the world of business, corporation tax is to be cut to 24%

:03:59.:04:04.

from April this year and by 2014, it will be down to 22%.

:04:04.:04:09.

So those are the main measures. We have been joined by Paul Johnson,

:04:09.:04:13.

director of the IFS, the Institute of Fiscal stewedies. Paul, it is

:04:13.:04:16.

good to have you on Budget Day. We have been talking to Danny

:04:16.:04:19.

Alexander about the impact of the changes. Let's go through some of

:04:19.:04:24.

them if we can. First of all, the rational, the logic they are

:04:24.:04:27.

proposing to offer people on the cut in the top rate, is that

:04:27.:04:31.

something that made sense? Does the fact that it is not yielding a lot

:04:31.:04:34.

of money make sense to you, is that something that would be applicable

:04:34.:04:40.

in two or three years time if they kept up with it? The rational makes

:04:40.:04:43.

sense. We haven't had a chance to check through the numbers. We have

:04:43.:04:47.

said it will be hard to tell from one year's data. What was striking

:04:47.:04:51.

about what the Chancellor said was the sheer scale of the amount of

:04:51.:04:54.

money that got taken forward into the previous year, �16 billion of

:04:54.:04:58.

money taken forward. That does mean the first year is going to be

:04:58.:05:02.

different to future years and what he may have calculated if he looked

:05:02.:05:07.

at a it year later may have been different, but that said, what the

:05:07.:05:12.

HMRC have calculated is not dissimilar to what we at the IFS

:05:12.:05:15.

calculated based on what happened in the 1980s.

:05:15.:05:21.

So given that then and given that the you seem to share that

:05:21.:05:26.

reasoning, what he has put in place, does that make sense? As you see

:05:26.:05:29.

the adjustments made elsewhere, what do you make of the overall

:05:29.:05:36.

shape of the Budget? The overall shape does depend on what the

:05:36.:05:39.

behavioural response, reducing from 50 to 45 pence, whether that is

:05:40.:05:43.

going to change the behaviour very much of people in terms of their

:05:43.:05:47.

avoidance, it is difficult to know. He has done this big increase in

:05:47.:05:50.

stamp duty for the very most expensive properties. That's

:05:50.:05:53.

probably going to have a big effect on reducing the amount of

:05:53.:05:56.

transactions that happen at that end of the market and he has to be

:05:56.:05:59.

very confident that he is really going to clamp down on those tax

:05:59.:06:02.

avoidance schemes that he is trying to clamp down on because the

:06:02.:06:05.

incentive to avoid tax now is so much more than it was before. You

:06:06.:06:09.

might think he would be better off making sure that the tax avoidance

:06:09.:06:13.

scheme worked before he tried to up the tax on it.

:06:13.:06:17.

When we look at the savings projected for example on welfare

:06:17.:06:21.

which seemed to be very, very significant. Again, how can people

:06:21.:06:24.

be confident? How do you think the projections are going to be

:06:24.:06:27.

credible given the fact this they have returned to this problem time

:06:27.:06:32.

and time time again, tax avoidance is another issue which we get in

:06:32.:06:35.

every Budget and people are sceptical about the real impact and

:06:35.:06:38.

the real results you will get from them? Well, my understanding of

:06:38.:06:41.

what he said about savings and welfare was that in order to

:06:41.:06:45.

achieve the same level of cuts in public service spending after 2015,

:06:45.:06:51.

as we have had the next couple of years, he needs to make �10 billion

:06:51.:06:55.

of saving in welfare and that, I think, is pencilling or warning us

:06:55.:06:59.

that when it comes to the next Spending Review, he will be looking

:06:59.:07:03.

at welfare as well as health, education, defence and those kinds

:07:03.:07:07.

of things and where he is going to look within welfare, given the cuts

:07:07.:07:10.

he has already made is less clear. Robert.

:07:10.:07:14.

You haven't had as much time as you would like to crunch the numbers.

:07:14.:07:17.

Is there a particular group that you think will be significantly

:07:17.:07:21.

worse off as a result of this? Clearly, people who are moving

:07:21.:07:27.

houses with �2 million houses, higher rate taxpayers are going to

:07:27.:07:30.

be less well off than they might have expected as a result of the

:07:30.:07:36.

increase in the personal allowance, the benefits to that, not much

:07:36.:07:43.

benefit to higher rate taxpayers and the start which you start to

:07:43.:07:45.

pay tax will come down significantly to make sure that

:07:45.:07:49.

such groups don't gain a lot. If you were in the middle of the

:07:50.:07:53.

income spectrum, how do you think this affects you? If you are not a

:07:53.:07:58.

higher rate taxpayer, you will gain next year from the increase in the

:07:58.:08:02.

personal allowance and that is the biggest change for most people in

:08:02.:08:06.

this Budget so that is a small bonus.

:08:06.:08:10.

And if you are a headteacher or somebody above? If you are a

:08:10.:08:16.

headteacher or somebody above the 40 pence threshold, you will gain a

:08:16.:08:20.

smaller amount. It means that more people will be brought into that 40

:08:20.:08:24.

pence band. A lot more more people. There is a big change to the tax

:08:24.:08:30.

system over time. Relative to what we expected people between �40,000

:08:30.:08:33.

and �50,000 with child benefit will keep that child benefit, whereas

:08:34.:08:37.

those earning above �60,000 will lose all of it.

:08:37.:08:42.

Nick, that massively outweighs any effect of the tax allowance. If you

:08:42.:08:48.

are one of those people people who breathe a sigh of relief that you

:08:48.:08:56.

will keep your child benefit? tax allowance numbers are very beer.

:08:56.:09:01.

Child benefit For one child is �1,000. Child benefit for

:09:01.:09:07.

additional children are �750. People on �60,000 with three or

:09:07.:09:17.
:09:17.:09:17.

four children are the biggest leers. -- losers. Price His priority was

:09:17.:09:21.

the tax allowance and the people affected. If you are looking at the

:09:21.:09:25.

tax system, would you say it was a good way of giving people sort of a

:09:25.:09:29.

broad based tax relief or would you have said maybe there were better

:09:29.:09:33.

ways? I could ask you the same question about stamp duty is that a

:09:33.:09:36.

good way to raise money from property or would you like them to

:09:36.:09:39.

raise it a different way? If you are just changing income taxs

:09:39.:09:44.

that's not a bad way of giving money to people on low incomes. It

:09:44.:09:48.

is an expensive way of doing it. If what you are really concerned about

:09:48.:09:53.

is increasing incomes and you want to do that through something roar -

:09:53.:09:58.

- other than the the income tax, you can do more with tax credits.

:09:58.:10:02.

The Liberal Democrats are really concerned about the working poor

:10:02.:10:05.

they would have probably gone for tax credits.

:10:05.:10:09.

The working poor and those with children do a lot better out of tax

:10:09.:10:12.

credits and those have been cut over the last couple of years,

:10:12.:10:16.

particularly for people in the �40,000 range because they did

:10:16.:10:19.

until recently extent that far. Your question on property is an

:10:19.:10:26.

interesting one. If you really want to get money from reallyics really

:10:26.:10:33.

expensive property, a good way of doing it is the mansion tax. And

:10:33.:10:37.

most likely more and more people with really expensive properties

:10:37.:10:41.

will stay in them until they die and pass them on to their children

:10:41.:10:48.

children rather than down sizing. This is a �140,000 bill.

:10:48.:10:51.

Economists say the problem with Britain is it doesn't tax property

:10:51.:10:55.

enough because we are in love with our house and we don't have capital

:10:55.:11:01.

gains on our first residence. You would say even though it is raising

:11:01.:11:07.

money, you shouldn't do that? better to do something more like

:11:07.:11:11.

was described in the Mansion House, to get more from properties that

:11:11.:11:14.

are expensive. We under tax that group of properties. This happens

:11:14.:11:18.

to be a bad way of doing it. It is great to talk to you.

:11:18.:11:21.

Fascinating. We are out of time. Thank you very much for coming in

:11:21.:11:27.

to share your thoughts on the Budget. Paul Johnson there.

:11:27.:11:35.

Let's join Jon, who is outside on I am with Plaid Cymru and the SNP.

:11:35.:11:39.

I asked Jonathan Edwards what he would like to talk about and he

:11:39.:11:47.

said the rugby and Jonathan said anything other than the rugby. What

:11:47.:11:52.

will be the reaction be in Wales? The major figure was the OBR advice

:11:52.:11:57.

projection of growth which is 0.7%. This compares with a figure they

:11:57.:12:01.

projected in May 2010 of 2.8% and this shows that austerity isn't

:12:01.:12:04.

working. There are only 10% of the way through the cuts and the

:12:04.:12:08.

reality is that the overrating view of the economy and the current

:12:08.:12:12.

coalition is they are sucking demand out of the economy.

:12:12.:12:16.

Angus, I know Alex Salmond met David Cameron to to talk about what

:12:16.:12:23.

he wanted. Did you hear much to please you? For most of us, we

:12:23.:12:27.

learnt much of what was in the Budget in the newspapers, but the

:12:27.:12:30.

failure for me is on fairness and on growth. So you are right, the

:12:30.:12:34.

First Minister met with David Cameron to talk about projects,

:12:34.:12:39.

things that would keep pro employment up and things that would

:12:39.:12:41.

boost growth and unfortunately, the Prime Minister and the Chancellor

:12:41.:12:45.

of the Exchequer, the Government had nothing to announce on that and

:12:45.:12:49.

on fairness, it is back to the 1980s, we are seeing a Tory

:12:49.:12:53.

Government, neither the people of Wales or Scotland voted for,

:12:53.:12:55.

cutting taxes for the richest whilst attacking the poorest in

:12:56.:12:58.

society. It is not what we want and that's the reason why we look

:12:58.:13:00.

forward to our independence referendum.

:13:00.:13:06.

I want to get reaction to the view on regional pay. That's worrying

:13:06.:13:10.

for us in Wales and Scotland and in Cornwall. What we are talking about

:13:10.:13:14.

here is a tax cut for those earning more than �3,000 a week and

:13:14.:13:19.

regional pay which will institutional these areas as low

:13:19.:13:25.

wage economies in the public and private sector.

:13:25.:13:31.

Angus? The UK Government is giving a tax cut to its supporters so the

:13:31.:13:41.

richest in society and it is and Pennalising the poorest. We didn't

:13:41.:13:44.

vote for the Tories, but we have a Tory Government taking just wait

:13:44.:13:50.

for it �50 billion in North Sea Oil revenues, but treating the poorest

:13:50.:13:55.

in society worst whilst giving a tax cut to the rich. Time for a yes

:13:55.:13:58.

vote in our independence referendum. Bring it on!

:13:58.:14:04.

Huw, more reaction from here, but Jon Sopel there.

:14:04.:14:07.

We will get response too from Northern Ireland because it is

:14:07.:14:12.

important to see what impact there of the Budget is as perceived and

:14:12.:14:15.

Jim Fitzpatrick can tell us more about. Jim, how do you see it

:14:15.:14:17.

there? Well, here in Northern Ireland some of the things that

:14:18.:14:21.

have been grabbing the headlines across the water, don't have much

:14:21.:14:24.

impact here. For instance, that 50 pence rate, how many people pay

:14:24.:14:29.

that rate here? Well only 4,000. So, yes, benefit, but it is a small

:14:29.:14:37.

number. Indeed, the 7% stamp duty rate, out of a troll of our housing

:14:37.:14:42.

websites, there will be only two houses on the market that that

:14:42.:14:48.

would attract that rate. Where there will be an impact is the

:14:48.:14:51.

personal allowance. That will have a big impact. The Treasury says

:14:51.:14:56.

that will take 25,000 people out of tax. It will benefit another

:14:56.:15:00.

600,000 odd people. One of the concerns would be regional pay.

:15:00.:15:03.

What the Chancellor said on that was limited so people people will

:15:03.:15:06.

be looking at the detail, but again we are a public sector economy in

:15:06.:15:09.

Northern Ireland and the differential between the the

:15:09.:15:13.

private sector and the public sector in pay is big. If that

:15:13.:15:17.

established the principle of regional or localised pay it might

:15:17.:15:19.

be something that public sector workers here would be concerned

:15:19.:15:23.

about. Jim, thank you very much.

:15:23.:15:33.
:15:33.:15:41.

The shadow -- Shadow Chancellor has joined us. This 50p rate - let's

:15:41.:15:45.

start with this. It is a useless tax, it is bringing nothing in, so

:15:45.:15:51.

it has been scrapped. The logic of that? What do you make of it?

:15:51.:15:55.

important to be absolutely clear what the Government are doing here.

:15:55.:15:58.

What they are doing and the documents confirm, they are cutting

:15:58.:16:02.

taxes for 300,000 top-rate taxpayers. It confirms the ost of

:16:02.:16:09.

that next year will be �3 billion. They are giving �10,000 to every

:16:09.:16:11.

top-rate taxpayer. They are gambling that if you give �10,000

:16:11.:16:16.

to the richest people who currently pay tax, they will be able to

:16:16.:16:19.

recoup �2.9 billion from people who currently are not paying tax

:16:19.:16:23.

because they are offshore, or avoiding tax. The problem is,

:16:23.:16:28.

there's no certainty they will get that money. The actual tax cut to

:16:28.:16:31.

existing taxpayers is six times what they are raising on stamp duty

:16:31.:16:37.

and tax avoidance. Will they get this money in? Well the IFS said,

:16:37.:16:42.

just a few weeks ago "that this Budget is too soon to form a robust

:16:42.:16:47.

judgment." Even the OBR says it is highly uncertain. If they don't get

:16:47.:16:51.

this response it will cost billions more. The question for David

:16:51.:16:56.

Cameron and for George Osborne and Nick Clegg is, is it really right

:16:56.:17:00.

when families are under pressure losing tax credits, child benefit

:17:00.:17:07.

to gamble that if you give the millionaire �40,000, an average

:17:07.:17:10.

top-rate taxpayer �10,000. Spend �3 billion on that - is it right to

:17:10.:17:15.

gamble, making the rich richer, will somehow pull in all this extra

:17:15.:17:20.

tax revenue? There is no evidence for this at all. The IFS don't have

:17:20.:17:24.

the evidence. Why are they gamblging that making the rich --

:17:24.:17:29.

gambling that making the rich richer will make us all better off?

:17:29.:17:35.

That rate is not bringing in virtually anything. It is not

:17:35.:17:40.

working in its current form. Do you accept the figures, they published,

:17:40.:17:46.

they do show that? I accept the figures they publish which do not

:17:46.:17:50.

show that. The HMRC document says "the cost of the top-rate tax cut

:17:50.:17:57.

is �3 billion next year. �3.3 the next year.

:17:57.:18:04.

"What is it yielding? What it has been yielding? It takes one or two

:18:04.:18:08.

years to build up the yield. The original costs was �1.3 billion.

:18:08.:18:14.

They have nobgd it down to �1 -- knocked it down to �1 billion. It

:18:14.:18:23.

is the HMRC who say it is �10,000 for every top-rate taxpayer. They

:18:23.:18:27.

gamble if you give a huge tax cut to the richest, somehow it will

:18:27.:18:31.

make all these people offshore, not paying tax, come forward and say,

:18:31.:18:36.

all right I will cuff up by �2.9 billion. If that is the logic you

:18:36.:18:41.

will reverse it when you come to Government? The IFS say it is too

:18:41.:18:46.

early to take this gamble. Would we take a gamble now, to give �3

:18:46.:18:50.

billion to the richest, when families are losing their tax

:18:50.:18:55.

credits? In this pen Budget they are hitting pensions for -- in this

:18:55.:19:01.

Budget they are hitting pensions. Nick? Are you suggesting the quote

:19:01.:19:02.

from the Office for Budget Responsibility, that the Chancellor

:19:02.:19:08.

used, that these numbers were acceptable, his claim there was

:19:08.:19:11.

only �100 million cost net of making this change, that the OBR

:19:11.:19:14.

have been misled, or they are wrong? Or they have allowed

:19:14.:19:18.

themselves to be used? Well the OBR report says these figures are

:19:18.:19:22.

highly uncertain. In their report they oh, they say

:19:22.:19:31.

if it turns out you don't get a rush of people saying they want to

:19:31.:19:38.

pay the tax It could end up costing billions more. He was quoting the

:19:38.:19:41.

Office for Budget Responsibility and what we used to call the Inland

:19:41.:19:47.

Revenue, the HMRC, as giving the figures hafplt is going on here? Do

:19:47.:19:53.

you think he -- what is going on here? In the distributional

:19:53.:19:57.

analysis they exclude the 50p rate. They don't want to reveal it is

:19:57.:20:03.

�10,000 for every taxpayer. The OBR are quoting an HMRC report. I have

:20:03.:20:07.

always said the OBR should have done this report, because like the

:20:07.:20:13.

IFS they would have been much more cautious. It is not an OBR report.

:20:13.:20:19.

The OBR take the HMRC estimate of the net effect of �100 million. Say,

:20:19.:20:27.

OK, we will score that, and it is uncertain. That �100 million is

:20:27.:20:33.

base based on hoping somehow in a right-wing kind of way we'll have,

:20:33.:20:38.

what they call a laugh curb, people will say, all right, I want to pay

:20:38.:20:43.

more tax. I am very sceptical of that. What you seem to be saying

:20:43.:20:47.

that all the tax avoidance which has taken place, so the richer

:20:47.:20:52.

people don't pay the 50p tax, you are saying you don't think they

:20:52.:20:56.

will change their behaviour. That they will decide that 45p they will

:20:56.:21:00.

pay the tax. In acknowledging there has been this massive tax avoidance,

:21:00.:21:04.

aren't you saying that your Government was wrong to introduce

:21:04.:21:10.

the tax? That is the logic, isn't it? George Osborne's report says by

:21:10.:21:14.

delaying the top rate of tax coming in for a year, it costs him �2.4

:21:14.:21:19.

billion. It is the case when you introduce a new tax rate there are

:21:19.:21:23.

behavioural effects in forestalling. We said it would raise �2.4 billion.

:21:23.:21:30.

Actually, they say this report cutting it by 5% will cost �3

:21:30.:21:33.

billion. �3 billion next year and a gamble on this effect. There's no

:21:33.:21:40.

evidence for this at all. A lot of people watching will see something

:21:40.:21:44.

which you could not see with the average Gordon Brown Budget. They

:21:44.:21:48.

will see something has been announced, maybe they don't like

:21:48.:21:52.

the rate of the 50p rate going down, but they will hear the Office for

:21:52.:21:55.

Budget Responsibility thinks it is OK. They will hear they will a big

:21:55.:21:58.

increase in their personal allowance next year. Are you

:21:58.:22:04.

opposing that? Isn't that how most will see this is going on? There is

:22:04.:22:08.

something complicated with top rate tax, but at least I am getting a

:22:09.:22:12.

tax cut? The economy barely changes. The big change is private

:22:12.:22:16.

investment will be lower for the next few years, even after the

:22:16.:22:20.

corporate tax cut. What the Chancellor is doing is taking a tax

:22:20.:22:23.

rise on pensioners, plus savings from Afghanistan, and using that

:22:23.:22:27.

for personal allowance. I think we should be honest about it.

:22:27.:22:31.

Pensioners will pay more tax as a result of this Budget. The third

:22:31.:22:35.

thing he's doing, is he says I can cut the top rate of tax and nobody

:22:35.:22:40.

will notice, because he believes if I give the legitimate millionaire

:22:40.:22:43.

�40,000, that will be OK, because other millionaires who are

:22:43.:22:48.

currently avoiding tax will come in and cuff up their share as well. My

:22:48.:22:53.

point -- cough up their share as well. Do you want to live in a

:22:53.:22:59.

society where we incense fiez the richest by giving -- incense tiez

:22:59.:23:02.

the richest is by giving them tax cuts, while you say to people on

:23:02.:23:07.

low and middle incomes, the only way we will do this to you is by

:23:07.:23:12.

making you poorer, we are taking away your tax credits, your child

:23:12.:23:17.

benefit. Come on - the richest gain tens of thousands from this Budget.

:23:17.:23:22.

I am really sorry, guys. We have to move on. Ed, thank you for coming

:23:22.:23:25.

in. Good to see you, the Shadow Chancellor there. I have got to get

:23:25.:23:28.

in some more reaction basically. It's important to get it in as well

:23:28.:23:31.

from people who are not at Westminster, people who will feel

:23:32.:23:38.

the effects of these policies. Let's go back to Jo in Stratford-

:23:38.:23:40.

upon-Avon. Thank you. People here are

:23:40.:23:45.

absorbing the details of the Budget delivered by George Osborne, busy

:23:45.:23:52.

working, all day as they have been on the factory floor. Fiona, who

:23:52.:23:56.

runs one of the oldest family businesses in the world. Gerry D

:23:57.:24:02.

nurbgs n and Yvonne from the Citizens Advice Bureau. Show us

:24:02.:24:08.

some of your medals - because your company makes buttons and other

:24:08.:24:16.

military medals as well. We are with two warrant holders making the

:24:16.:24:19.

Queen's jubilee medal, the Diamond Jubilee medal, which is very

:24:19.:24:24.

special. You must have crafted skillsmen? You take on apprentices?

:24:24.:24:29.

We would like to take on more, but they are expensive people. We have

:24:29.:24:33.

very lowly paid staff. So it is very, very difficult. We have very

:24:33.:24:37.

low margins. Very difficult for us to afford to take on as many as we

:24:37.:24:41.

would like. What would you like the Government to have announced?

:24:41.:24:44.

would like a number of things. Particularly I would like more help

:24:44.:24:49.

in terms of firms like us, being encouraged, being helped in terms

:24:49.:24:53.

of improving our capital investment, improving our plant, but also being

:24:53.:24:57.

able to be awarded Government contracts with good margins for

:24:57.:25:00.

instance, instead of them going overseas. Those sort of things.

:25:00.:25:06.

Gerry, as far as you are concerned, personal tax allowances, good news

:25:06.:25:10.

for people at the lower end of the scale, in your mind? I think so.

:25:10.:25:14.

Some of the good sides is that the personal allowance will actually

:25:14.:25:19.

increase significantly next year, which allows those in the bottom

:25:19.:25:21.

margin to take home more money. When you look at the middle

:25:22.:25:25.

management people, who are earning at a certain level, then you start

:25:25.:25:32.

to see that currently now the child allowance drops straight off. Those

:25:32.:25:35.

with company vehicles, they are significantly increased year in,

:25:35.:25:39.

year out. You are paying more tax. People in the middle range will

:25:39.:25:45.

actually be worse off. Yvonne, what about the people you see on a daily

:25:45.:25:48.

basis? Will they welcome that raising of the threshold, the point

:25:48.:25:55.

you start to pay tax? People will think it will make people better

:25:55.:26:01.

off. Poorer families not earning up to �9,000, it will have no help to

:26:01.:26:05.

at all. For those families who are dependant on help with their rent

:26:05.:26:13.

and council tax, they will only be able to gain 15% of everybody else

:26:13.:26:18.

would obtain. I would urge the Government so work does pay for

:26:18.:26:22.

everybody. Thank you all very much. Let's go over to our expert. Can we

:26:22.:26:28.

talk about that �10 billion more in savings to the welfare Budget that

:26:28.:26:34.

George Osborne announced. He would have to make another �20 billion

:26:34.:26:39.

savings even if departments are cutting as they are. Bad news for

:26:39.:26:43.

people who depend on welfare benefits. This, talking about age-

:26:43.:26:47.

related pensioner's tax allowances. Is that a tax rise? No, it is for

:26:47.:26:51.

some people in effect. At the moment people over 65 get a higher

:26:51.:26:56.

tax allowance. Around about �10,000. The Chancellor says anyone who

:26:56.:27:00.

reaches 65 after 6th April, 2013, will not get that. People who

:27:00.:27:05.

currently get it, it will be frozen. That is in effect a tax rise for

:27:05.:27:09.

some pensioners, yes. Thank you. Back to the studio.

:27:09.:27:14.

Thank you very much. Thanks again to your guests. We have very,

:27:14.:27:20.

little time left. I will ask the impossible. I will ask Robert and

:27:20.:27:30.
:27:30.:27:55.

Nick Robinson to say something It is very exposed. Vulnerable to

:27:55.:28:00.

this big picture, but a very important political one. It is a

:28:00.:28:03.

Budget which will not shape the economy, I suspect, but shape

:28:03.:28:06.

politics. It is a huge political gamble. The Chancellor is saying,

:28:06.:28:10.

if I give a lot to millions of people they won't mind that some

:28:10.:28:14.

very rich people get a lot of money in a tax cut. Labour are saying, oh,

:28:15.:28:19.

no, millionaires getting money, that is not acceptable in this era.

:28:19.:28:23.

Nobody knows which way the gamble will go. Thank you. That brings the

:28:23.:28:27.

coverage to an end for now. Of course there'll be more debate on

:28:27.:28:31.

the BBC News channel and of course you can follow all of the blogs

:28:31.:28:35.

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