Wed, 29 Feb 2012 CF99


Wed, 29 Feb 2012

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Transcript


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Good evening and welcome to the Senedd for half-an-hour of politicking.

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As the Liberal Democrats prepare for their spring conference,

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we'll put their policies and hopes for the May elections under the microscope.

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And, a year after the referendum, have politicians shown vision in using the Assembly's new powers.

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And if you want to join in with the discussion,

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you're welcome to do so on Twitter - #CF99.

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On tonight's programme we're joined by Myrddin Edwards from the Liberal Democrats,

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Harri Lloyd Davies from the Conservatives,

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and, in our Westminster studio, the Labour MP Nia Griffith.

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-Welcome to the programme.

-Yes, welcome.

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Well, it's a leap year, and I wonder whether Nick Clegg would voluntarily

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get down on one knee and propose to David Cameron,

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knowing the cost of their relationship to his party so far?

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I'm sure many within the party in Wales would encourage him not to.

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Campaigning on the doorstep in the local elections over the next few weeks,

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will members of the party here promote the coalition in Westminster

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or will the party pay the price for their marriage with the Tories?

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Here's Elliw Gwawr.

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ROCK MUSIC

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Historically, this is the strength of the Liberal Democrats.

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An army of campaigners walking the street and knocking doors.

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Four years ago, the hard work paid off.

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They secured more seats on councils across Wales than any other party.

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One of the strength of the Liberal Democrats over the last 40 years,

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and everyone acknowledges this, is the fact that we work hard

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throughout the year on the doorstep in our communities.

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People know exactly what they'll get from us.

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But they won't win these elections through campaigning alone.

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The opinion polls are consistently between 6%-8%.

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It looks as though the Liberal Democrats will be defending seats this time

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rather than challenging for more.

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They are in power... or lead three local authorities

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and their record has been relatively successful in those local authorities.

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But, naturally, many people will be criticising their record in Westminster.

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And as the unpopular cuts start to bite for the first time,

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there will be a temptation for people in Wales to strike a protest vote.

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So there will be a challenge for the leadership

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to persuade voters that they're relevant.

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The Liberal Democrats will hope to give their candidate a boost

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in the local elections as they meet here,

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at the Holland House hotel in Cardiff this weekend, for their spring conference.

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Nick Clegg and Kirsty Williams will emphasise in their speeches

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that they are making a difference at the three levels of government.

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It's true that the party has realised many policy promises in Westminster

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but they have also had to accept a programme of strict austerity cuts.

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At a British level, it has been a difficult job.

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We're trying to say what our principles are as a party.

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We will be talking about tax thresholds -

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the fact that we are trying to influence the Chancellor

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to encourage him to increase the tax threshold to £10,000 a year.

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What we are trying to say is that money is short,

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but with the Liberal Democrats, at a local level, we'll keep taxes low,

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we'll make sure you get value for money from your services,

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but we'll also remember those who need more help in society.

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But it could be a step back for the party

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if the message fails to resonate with the electorate.

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Local government politics

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has been a cornerstone of their electoral success

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at the Assembly level and in Westminster.

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Losing that presence and those people to knock on doors and spread their message

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would be a significant blow to the party

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as they try to secure support in the Westminster elections.

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So members of the party will still be walking the streets,

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hoping to persuade their supporters to stand by them on May 3rd.

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ROCK MUSIC

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Elliw Gwawr.

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Myrddin Edwards,

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the Liberal Democrats' local machine, where it exists,

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is extremely effective.

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Are you relying on that machine to protect you

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from the changing climate in British politics?

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That machine can be very successful,

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as we have seen in Cardiff, Swansea, Newport and Wrexham.

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But we have a good record in those places where we are part of the local government,

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in Cardiff, Swansea and Wrexham,

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where we have managed to give local people a good service

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but, as you saw from that clip with Aled,

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where the council tax has remained low.

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-But people don't just vote on local issues.

-That's difficult.

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I admit that the situation in Westminster is going to be difficult

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but what we're going to tell people on the doorstep

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is that we are making a difference in Westminster

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by increasing that tax threshold to £10,000

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so that people will not pay income tax on the first £10,000.

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That will put £700 back in your pocket.

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At a local level, we're not increasing council tax very much.

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In Swansea it's been frozen. In Cardiff it's only gone up 1.4%.

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During a difficult time, we see that there is pressure on the family budget

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-so we're doing what we can...

-VAT has gone up, wages frozen.

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Whatever you do, people are not going to be particularly happy.

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But we are delivering at the three levels where we have an influence. In Westminster, the Assembly...

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Harri Lloyd Davies, these are your partners in Westminster. The little brother, if you like.

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You're not going to be too nasty during this election. You have got to work with them.

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Not locally. We'll be going out across Wales

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and, in places like Swansea, I think the Conservative Party

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has more hope of taking seats away from the Liberal Democrats than anyone else.

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We will be working very hard to do that.

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The difference is that your supporters like what this Government is doing.

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Exactly. And that's the difference.

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The people in our coalition in London, many of the MPs

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are English and they feel a lot closer to the Conservative Party.

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The people in the Liberal Democrat camp in Wales are closer to the Labour Party.

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They don't see what the Liberal Democrats are doing in London

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as a positive thing for Wales.

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Nia Griffith, if the Chancellor decides to increase the tax threshold to £10,000,

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we don't know whether he will do that,

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the Liberal Democrats will get praised for that

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and that's going to be something to sell on the doorstep.

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But at the same time you have got to remember that they

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have voted in favour of increasing VAT and they have voted in favour

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of cutting tax credits which help poorer families who got to work.

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This is very important because people see a party

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which has lost the confidence of the people

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because they promised so much back in 2010

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and now they have failed to deliver.

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They have trebled tuition fees in England

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and people see the Lib Dems very differently now

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to the way they saw them in 2008

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when they were a relatively new party.

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And yet you as a party in the Assembly

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are happy to use the Liberal Democrats to support your budget.

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Well, what happens is, you have got to use what you can

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to create a good environment for your policies.

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But what you should not do

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is to something like the Lib Dems in Westminster.

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They haven't had anything from the Tories at all.

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What are you talking about?

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We're going to cut tax for people who work across Wales and Britain.

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We have made sure that pensioners get a good bargain

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compared your government over the last 13 years.

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It's terrible that you say that. We have a good record in Westminster.

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We have been responsible over the economy

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where Labour has been terribly irresponsible in Westminster.

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When you take into account how much you have lost,

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how much you have cut from people in tax credits

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and the winter fuel allowance for elderly people,

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you have cut more than you are going to get back.

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Myrddin, can I ask you another question?

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Your party has a conference in a few days' time.

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I'm a very familiar with this conference

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and the percentage of people there that are council members is very high.

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You're a party that relies on its councillors, to be honest,

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and the councillors allowance pays for those focus forms.

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If you lose a lot of seats,

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what will that do to the party in Wales,

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considering it will be five years until the next local elections?

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It will be a significant blow.

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We have a good record at local level so we will go out...

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-But you're bound to lose some, aren't you?

-We don't know.

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We'll have to see what happens in the election.

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But if we lose councillors, I don't think they are going to disappear.

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They will still be activists and they'll still work for the party.

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I don't accept that logic.

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Harri Lloyd Davies, how are you going to deal with the fact

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that the Liberal Democrats will try to take the glory

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for the things they like about the coalition government in Westminster,

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for example, the tax threshold,

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but not the changes to the NHS?

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They won't want anything to do with that. How will you deal with that?

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I don't think the NHS will make much of a difference to the election in Wales, to be honest.

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It's on the news every night, I know that,

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but I don't think it will have a big effect.

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I do feel the Liberal Democrats will have bog problems in the election.

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I think they're going to lose a lot of seats.

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But what's different about local elections

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is that local people care and they vote.

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There are many individuals who can influence every council in Wales.

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If the NHS is mentioned, what will you say?

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Do you support what David Cameron is pushing through?

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We respect devolution and health has been devolved.

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But it will come up, Nick Clegg's position.

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No...the people of Wales have more sense than that.

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They know the Health Service has been devolved.

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-Does Nick Clegg support these reforms?

-I don't know.

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But the Health Service in Wales is being cut.

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That isn't happening in England. It would be a worse situation.

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If the Tories and the Lib Dems were running Wales, we wouldn't see those cuts.

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If the NHS does come up on the doorstep in Wales,

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I'll tell people that Labour are making a mess of our health service.

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Nia Griffith, that is a factor.

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People criticise local government, they criticise what's going on in Westminster,

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but they will also criticise what's happening here, which we'll discuss in a moment.

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They look at everything,

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but the British media and press has a major influence.

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They see what is going on in Westminster.

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You have seen the opinion polls

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and they show that the Liberal Democrats are losing ground.

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I think they will have a big shock in the election.

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With respect, Nia, before the election last year,

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the media and the opinion polls were saying we were going to lose almost every seat.

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We lost one seat.

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They always predict we are going to lose a lot of seats

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but we have a good record

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and we are going to tell people about that record.

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'Yma o Hyd' is the Plaid Cymru anthem, not yours.

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Next week, we'll have a look at the hopes of the Conservative Party in the local elections.

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It's a year since the Yes vote in the referendum on further powers for the Assembly.

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But how much have we seen those powers being used?

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Not much, in reality.

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Some blame Carwyn Jones' government,

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but others, like the parliamentary leader of Plaid Cymru, Elfyn Llwyd,

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who say every party has shown a lack of vision.

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More from Aled ap Dafydd.

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APPLAUSE

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"Give us the tools to do the job", was the message,

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and on March 3rd last year,

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our politicians were given full law-making powers.

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The argument from the No campaign was that we would need

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more Assembly Members because the workload would increase.

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But they've barely broken sweat.

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Not a single law has been passed since the election.

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And it's unlikely to happen before the autumn.

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I've been an AM for ten months and I am still waiting

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for the first sentence of legislation to scrutinise

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as an Assembly Member.

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There is frustration. I sympathise with the frustration that is out there.

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As a new AM, I was expecting to have a lot of work to do after the referendum

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but, in reality, I'm still waiting for the opportunity.

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And your parliamentary leader in an article today

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says your party is as much to blame as the other parties.

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Well, he's frustrated, I am frustrated.

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The reality is that we're in opposition here at the Assembly.

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The ball is in the court of the Labour Party. We are still waiting.

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The party has been clear about the laws we would have brought forward,

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ranging from education laws to public health laws to planning laws.

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Our communities are very concerned about local planning issues that are out there,

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so there is plenty of work this Labour Party could be doing

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but, the truth is, it's not doing anything.

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During the referendum campaign, we asked the people.

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One of them was Steffan ap Dafydd.

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Today, he was back at the institution he supported

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by voting Yes a year ago.

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But the claim that the Assembly is resting on its laurels

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doesn't resonate with him.

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Harold Wilson once said that a week is a long time in politics.

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A year is longer and four years is longer still.

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It's part of the process.

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They have got the tools now and that's the important thing.

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When you have the tools, it is up to you to use them.

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Legislation takes time.

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Seeing bills being passed will pay the bills for a new company of political consultants.

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The Deryn offices, a stone's throw from the Assembly,

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have already seen a lot of interests from companies who want to lobby the Welsh Government

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before any legislation sees the light of day.

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I'm surprised that any politician says that a law

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has to be announced and passed in 10 months.

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You have to consider these laws.

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This isn't a change of policy but legislation,

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and they're very different.

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Whether it's slow or not, Carwyn Jones felt the need in January

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to remind everyone of what Labour has done and what it will do.

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Legislation doesn't happen over night

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and speeding up the process means poor legislation, according to some.

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But sooner or later, the weapons that were requested will have to be sharpened

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in order to justify the result of the referendum.

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Nia Gruffudd, looking at the details,

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one bill that's going through at the moment

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is the one on the bye-laws of local government.

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It is in its very early stages.

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Is that enough to catch the imagination,

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considering it's the first year we've had all these powers?

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We have a strong manifesto.

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What's important is,

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before you introduce a new bill or a new measure,

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you have to be certain that it's good.

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What's very important in this process is the consultation

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that takes place with everyone who is involved.

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New legislation is coming out, the White Paper is coming out on housing

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and we have to consult on that because it's a very important issue.

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Social services, sustainable development.

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These are huge issues and they're very important.

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It's important to think them through before creating legislation

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because you need effective legislation

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that's supported by the people of Wales.

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That's what's important.

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So there's no need to rush, Harri Lloyd Davies.

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I agree to a certain extent.

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I'm concerned about how slowly things are moving

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but it's important that we don't produce poor legislation.

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That's the last thing we want in Wales.

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We don't want more bad legislation.

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If you're running a business or something like that,

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the last thing you want is more rules and regulations.

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That holds us back in Wales.

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That would be understandable if several measures

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had started on the journey and not one had reached the end.

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-But the fact is, only one or two have started the journey.

-I agree.

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The question is, what's the point of the Assembly if it can't do anything.

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People might turn around in five at 10 years and say,

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"Why are we paying all this money for people to sit around,

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"if they're not going to do anything

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"and improve the lives of the people of Wales."

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If that answer doesn't come out, the people who say,

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"What's the point of the Assembly?", will win the argument.

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-What's the problem, Myrddin?

-It is disappointing.

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I was here almost a year ago watching the results come in.

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The people of Wales said, "Right, you are ready, you are mature. Move on to the next step."

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Under a year later, only the one measure has been introduced and it's very disappointing.

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Has this measure made a difference to our health, our education system or businesses? No.

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But they're coming. They'll come in this session.

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There's a feeling in the Assembly already,

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not with the measures and bills that are going before the Assembly.

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Labour does not have any vision or enthusiasm towards Wales.

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Carwyn Jones is dragging his heels. We want to do things.

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Peter Black, one of our Assembly Members, has already had permission

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to introduce a measure to help people who live in houses in parks

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to improve the rights of tenants.

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When we were fighting in the referendum,

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we were telling people on the that we wanted to introduce things

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that would change the standard of their lives in Wales.

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We're doing that as backbenchers. We're not part of the government at the moment.

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It is very disappointing that only one has emerged so far.

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What do we tell the people of Wales one year later?

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-That only one has been passed.

-One in Scotland as well.

-Fine.

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Maybe the SNP should get a move on as well!

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Nia, looking at these measures,

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they seem different to the ones in Westminster

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because Westminster measures tend to be a compendium of measures.

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A long measure that makes a lot of differences.

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These seem to be small, narrow measures on the whole.

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Whether you think the health measure in Westminster is good or bad,

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it is very ambitious.

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-Nia?

-I don't think Nia can hear us.

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Harri, Tony Blair was always criticised

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for bringing forward too much legislation

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and creating too much legislation.

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Is there something in that?

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That too much is created and maybe it is not well needed?

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I do agree.

0:20:420:20:44

It is a problem and something has to be done during this term.

0:20:440:20:47

But we don't have to run straight in and do things.

0:20:470:20:50

It can create problems.

0:20:500:20:53

Sometimes, as we saw with the Assembly in the early days,

0:20:530:20:56

there was reorganisation of some kind in the health service almost every year.

0:20:560:21:00

Sometimes you have to give what's there a chance to work

0:21:000:21:03

before you change It'll again.

0:21:030:21:05

Let's try Nia again to give her the opportunity to answer that question.

0:21:050:21:10

The measures we're seeing in the Assembly,

0:21:100:21:13

they are very narrow measures, they're not very wide reaching.

0:21:130:21:18

Should this place learn lessons from Westminster and have measures

0:21:180:21:23

based on health for education instead of one small issue.

0:21:230:21:28

What's important is what they're going to do.

0:21:280:21:32

What difference they're going to make.

0:21:320:21:34

If you take the example of housing for example,

0:21:340:21:38

it's important that they try and find ways

0:21:380:21:41

to create more housing in Wales to help people

0:21:410:21:44

and that's what's important is the effectiveness of the measure.

0:21:440:21:49

That's why it's very important. It's not the size that counts.

0:21:490:21:53

What counts is the quality.

0:21:530:21:56

The important thing is to do something you can't do now.

0:21:560:22:00

You've got to be effective.

0:22:000:22:03

You've got to be quite selective and choose what you want to do

0:22:030:22:09

and think through the measures you can do to help you do it.

0:22:090:22:14

Myrddin Edwards, if you were in a coalition here,

0:22:140:22:18

what would you push for tomorrow?

0:22:180:22:21

What I would like to see, and what we called for after the referendum

0:22:210:22:26

and before the election, is for the bus system re-regulated.

0:22:260:22:30

It was regulated in the 80s by Thatcher and we know we have big problems with buses and Wales.

0:22:300:22:34

Something that will make a difference to people.

0:22:340:22:37

Buses. Anything else?

0:22:370:22:39

I'm happy that Peter Black is taking the park homes measure forward.

0:22:390:22:44

That's going to make a difference to people's lives.

0:22:440:22:47

That's what we want to see and that's what the Welsh people want to see.

0:22:470:22:50

We gave you the our vote and now we want you to give us something back.

0:22:500:22:54

What should the Assembly and the Government be pushing for?

0:22:540:22:57

The important thing at the moment is the economy.

0:22:570:23:00

The problem is, legislation is not the easiest thing to get the economy moving.

0:23:000:23:04

I would like to see them using what they've got

0:23:040:23:06

to abolish regulations that affect businesses in Wales

0:23:060:23:10

and take out things that were introduced by Westminster and Europe.

0:23:100:23:13

Thank you very much.

0:23:130:23:15

We'll know what the people of Wales want to see in this place

0:23:150:23:19

and how they want this place to develop

0:23:190:23:22

when BBC Wales publishes the results of the St David's Day opinion poll

0:23:220:23:27

and that will happen in the hours of the morning.

0:23:270:23:31

Bethan will have the result, if you listen to English language radio in the morning.

0:23:310:23:35

On 'Y Post Cyntaf' if you listen to Welsh language radio.

0:23:350:23:38

Some of you have tweeted us tonight, thanks very much for contacting us, about the Liberal Democrats.

0:23:380:23:43

Cadan ap Tomos says, "I don't like this talk about a coalition government being like a marriage.

0:23:430:23:48

"That's not what it is like at all."

0:23:480:23:50

Steve Jones has tweeted,

0:23:500:23:52

"I hope the little brother will be punished in the local elections after the party lied to students."

0:23:520:23:57

Thank you for your tweets. That's it for tonight.

0:23:570:24:01

Join us again next Wednesday night at 9:30pm.

0:24:010:24:06

-Until then, good night.

-Good night.

-See you next week.

0:24:060:24:09

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