Browse content similar to 18/04/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Good evening and welcome to CF99, for half an hour of live debate. | 0:00:20 | 0:00:27 | |
Tonight, who will be getting your vote at the local elections and why? | 0:00:27 | 0:00:33 | |
Will local matters of national matters help you decide? | 0:00:33 | 0:00:38 | |
And a chance to take a look at one of our local authorities' biggest bills, education. | 0:00:38 | 0:00:43 | |
And you can get involved on Twitter. | 0:00:43 | 0:00:47 | |
We're joined tonight by Baroness Morgan of Ely, Eluned Morgan to you and me, from Labour. | 0:00:49 | 0:00:55 | |
And Councillor John Davies, leader of Pembrokeshire Council and the WLGA. | 0:00:55 | 0:01:01 | |
In our Bangor newsroom, we have Plaid Cymru AM Alun Ffred Jones, | 0:01:01 | 0:01:05 | |
who leads the party's local election campaign. Welcome. | 0:01:05 | 0:01:08 | |
Politicians from the other parties will be here to give their opinions next week. | 0:01:08 | 0:01:14 | |
The main parties have launched their campaigns and the candidates | 0:01:14 | 0:01:19 | |
are already pounding the streets and knocking on those doors. | 0:01:19 | 0:01:24 | |
Yes, there's another election, but what will influence your vote as you choose your local councillors? | 0:01:24 | 0:01:30 | |
The state of the streets, or the parties in Cardiff Bay and Westminster? | 0:01:30 | 0:01:35 | |
James Williams is looking for answers, beginning in Caernarfon. | 0:01:35 | 0:01:40 | |
Four years on from the last local elections, | 0:01:45 | 0:01:50 | |
the fate of the main parties relies on public opinion, as ever. | 0:01:50 | 0:01:55 | |
Apart from the people of Anglesey, the rest of Wales will be voting | 0:01:55 | 0:01:59 | |
for their councillors in just over a fortnight. | 0:01:59 | 0:02:02 | |
These people are responsible for a number of local decisions that affect our lives. | 0:02:02 | 0:02:07 | |
They set council tax, decide when the bins are collected | 0:02:07 | 0:02:11 | |
and they also run the education, transport and social care systems. | 0:02:11 | 0:02:16 | |
But are people aware of that? | 0:02:16 | 0:02:18 | |
To an extent, yes. But I hardly ever see anyone knocking on my door. | 0:02:20 | 0:02:26 | |
And when they do, you never see them again. | 0:02:26 | 0:02:30 | |
So I don't know who I'm going to vote for. | 0:02:30 | 0:02:33 | |
What's important to you when you vote in the local elections? | 0:02:33 | 0:02:37 | |
A good man. A man in which you can depend. | 0:02:37 | 0:02:42 | |
-More than the policies? -Yes. | 0:02:42 | 0:02:44 | |
Local people go to the councillors, | 0:02:44 | 0:02:46 | |
the councillors go to the council, they do something and so on. | 0:02:46 | 0:02:52 | |
According to the American saying, the heart of politics is local. | 0:02:52 | 0:02:57 | |
We saw an example of that in this area in the 2008 local elections | 0:02:57 | 0:03:01 | |
when Gwynedd Council's schools reorganisation policy | 0:03:01 | 0:03:05 | |
influenced the result. | 0:03:05 | 0:03:07 | |
But it's obvious that what happens outside the council meetings | 0:03:07 | 0:03:11 | |
also plays a role in the local elections. | 0:03:11 | 0:03:14 | |
In Aberystwyth, there is another matter influencing things. | 0:03:19 | 0:03:23 | |
Proposed changes to Ysbyty Brongalis are a concern for local people. | 0:03:23 | 0:03:27 | |
More than 500 campaigners took their protest to the Senedd over a month ago. | 0:03:27 | 0:03:32 | |
I think we have more of an idea right across Wales, | 0:03:33 | 0:03:38 | |
but also in areas like Ceredigion, that the decisions in Wales | 0:03:38 | 0:03:43 | |
are made at the Assembly. | 0:03:43 | 0:03:45 | |
So I hope that we as a nation can see that the power | 0:03:45 | 0:03:48 | |
is in Cardiff Bay. | 0:03:48 | 0:03:54 | |
But for some, this election will be a vote on the economy and living standards. | 0:03:54 | 0:03:58 | |
National politics has an influence on local elections. | 0:03:58 | 0:04:04 | |
So what we expect to see the parties | 0:04:04 | 0:04:06 | |
that are popular on a British level to do well. | 0:04:06 | 0:04:11 | |
If they're doing well in the opinion polls, | 0:04:11 | 0:04:15 | |
they should do well in the local elections. | 0:04:15 | 0:04:18 | |
On the other hand, when they're unpopular we expect them | 0:04:18 | 0:04:22 | |
to have a hard time. | 0:04:22 | 0:04:26 | |
Following the local elections in 2008, David Cameron visited Barry | 0:04:30 | 0:04:35 | |
to celebrate the Conservatives' success in taking the Vale of Glamorgan. | 0:04:35 | 0:04:39 | |
For many, it was a referendum on Gordon Brown and the Labour Party. | 0:04:39 | 0:04:44 | |
But four years on, David Cameron is prime minister of a coalition government and the Conservatives | 0:04:44 | 0:04:49 | |
and the Liberal Democrats are behind in the opinion polls. Will the results reflect that? | 0:04:49 | 0:04:56 | |
I'm more than happy with the Westminster Government's record. | 0:04:56 | 0:05:01 | |
The message may have been complicated recently. | 0:05:01 | 0:05:05 | |
That's why I think it's important that people vote locally | 0:05:05 | 0:05:08 | |
for what is important to them locally. | 0:05:08 | 0:05:11 | |
We have a good record, we have a good story and I hope people will reflect on that when voting. | 0:05:11 | 0:05:17 | |
Across the country, from Caernarfon to Barry, | 0:05:17 | 0:05:20 | |
there are different patterns to politics. | 0:05:20 | 0:05:23 | |
But we will have to wait until the start of May to test the waters. | 0:05:23 | 0:05:28 | |
As James began in the north, we might as well start there too. | 0:05:30 | 0:05:35 | |
Alun Ffred Jones, local elections but I'm sure this will also be some sort of a referendum | 0:05:35 | 0:05:41 | |
on the popularity of the Westminster Government and possibly Cardiff Bay. | 0:05:41 | 0:05:46 | |
Yes, it's a mixture. | 0:05:46 | 0:05:49 | |
The influence of what is happening in London and maybe the unpopularity | 0:05:49 | 0:05:55 | |
of the Tories and the Lib Dems to an extent will affect the urban areas | 0:05:55 | 0:05:59 | |
where everyone usually stands for a particular party. | 0:05:59 | 0:06:05 | |
In rural areas, in villages, personality becomes more important. | 0:06:05 | 0:06:11 | |
But local circumstances of a local decision | 0:06:11 | 0:06:17 | |
regarding a planning application or a row can also influence matters. | 0:06:17 | 0:06:23 | |
So you often see a mixture of things. | 0:06:23 | 0:06:27 | |
But one thing I would say is it would be a pity if this became | 0:06:27 | 0:06:31 | |
a referendum on the Westminster Government's performance. | 0:06:31 | 0:06:36 | |
After all, you're voting for people to run local services. | 0:06:36 | 0:06:39 | |
That's what we have tried to emphasise, | 0:06:39 | 0:06:42 | |
the importance of electing people you can rely upon. | 0:06:42 | 0:06:46 | |
It's a difficult situation, | 0:06:46 | 0:06:49 | |
regardless of who is in charge in London. | 0:06:49 | 0:06:52 | |
There is no money available. There will be less money available. | 0:06:52 | 0:06:56 | |
Everyone will be facing difficult decisions. | 0:06:56 | 0:06:59 | |
You need responsible people in charge. | 0:06:59 | 0:07:03 | |
Eluned Morgan, is it right that we have Carwyn Jones | 0:07:03 | 0:07:06 | |
and Peter Hain calling for voters to send a message to Cameron and Clegg? | 0:07:06 | 0:07:11 | |
"It's your chance to voice your opinion on the Budget." These are supposed to be local elections. | 0:07:11 | 0:07:17 | |
Yes, but remember in 2008, we paid a high price for the fact that people were voting on Gordon Brown. | 0:07:17 | 0:07:25 | |
We paid a high price for that. | 0:07:25 | 0:07:28 | |
I think what you must remember is whatever happens, | 0:07:28 | 0:07:34 | |
it will be dissected on a national level. | 0:07:34 | 0:07:38 | |
And if that goes in favour of the Tories | 0:07:38 | 0:07:42 | |
and the Lib Dems, I think they will be very pleased. | 0:07:42 | 0:07:46 | |
But this could be a lucky election for you as a party. | 0:07:46 | 0:07:50 | |
You had a disappointing result last time, losing 5% of the vote. | 0:07:50 | 0:07:56 | |
To an extent, you're bound to do better this time. | 0:07:56 | 0:08:00 | |
And also what has happened since the Budget. | 0:08:00 | 0:08:06 | |
The wind is blowing against the coalition at Westminster. | 0:08:06 | 0:08:09 | |
Well, we hope so. I think they have made mistakes. | 0:08:09 | 0:08:15 | |
-People are furious about the cuts. -But it will be a negative vote against them, | 0:08:15 | 0:08:20 | |
rather than a positive one in favour of your ideas. | 0:08:20 | 0:08:24 | |
Of course, what we want is for people to look at what | 0:08:24 | 0:08:28 | |
is happening locally, that's what we've tried to do. | 0:08:28 | 0:08:32 | |
There is no national campaign this time. | 0:08:32 | 0:08:35 | |
What we have is every local authority acting on what is important locally. | 0:08:35 | 0:08:42 | |
It will be difficult for us to say - this is the Welsh campaign. | 0:08:42 | 0:08:49 | |
It's not happening that way this time. | 0:08:49 | 0:08:53 | |
Back in 2008, for the first time in years, | 0:08:53 | 0:08:57 | |
more independent councillors were elected than from any of the parties. | 0:08:57 | 0:09:01 | |
Does it sadden you to hear the parties trying to make this a referendum? | 0:09:01 | 0:09:08 | |
This is difficult for you, standing independently. | 0:09:08 | 0:09:12 | |
I don't think it's difficult. It strengthens our hand. | 0:09:12 | 0:09:16 | |
When you see the 2008 result, | 0:09:16 | 0:09:19 | |
more independent councillors than any party, but it is a referendum on local services, | 0:09:19 | 0:09:25 | |
local provision and local politicians. | 0:09:25 | 0:09:30 | |
Local government... | 0:09:30 | 0:09:32 | |
It's St David politics - do the small things. | 0:09:32 | 0:09:36 | |
We all know as politicians on different levels, | 0:09:36 | 0:09:39 | |
it's the small things that matter to people. | 0:09:39 | 0:09:44 | |
-All politics is local. -But are you entirely independent? | 0:09:44 | 0:09:49 | |
We've heard about these covert Conservatives and Lib Dems. | 0:09:49 | 0:09:53 | |
Is there any such thing as an entirely independent councillor these days? | 0:09:53 | 0:09:58 | |
People are standing independently. | 0:09:58 | 0:10:01 | |
They're standing on what they believe. Alun was right. | 0:10:01 | 0:10:04 | |
It's down to those individuals. People have to buy into that. | 0:10:04 | 0:10:10 | |
Otherwise you wouldn't have had an independent majority. | 0:10:10 | 0:10:16 | |
I know we are a thorn in the side of the political parties because we take votes. | 0:10:16 | 0:10:22 | |
But the fact is people are important, not party politics. | 0:10:22 | 0:10:27 | |
These independent candidates are elected | 0:10:27 | 0:10:33 | |
and then they form a party or a group within the council. | 0:10:33 | 0:10:37 | |
They are often whipped. | 0:10:37 | 0:10:39 | |
So they behave like a party but with no manifesto. | 0:10:39 | 0:10:44 | |
I accept there is a place for independents in local government, | 0:10:44 | 0:10:51 | |
but in reality you are not independent once you are governing. | 0:10:51 | 0:10:57 | |
That's an old line, as far as the whip. | 0:10:57 | 0:11:01 | |
It comes out during every election. | 0:11:01 | 0:11:04 | |
There is no whip. You can't whip true independents. | 0:11:04 | 0:11:08 | |
But we are seeing, I won't go after Anglesey because there are no elections there, | 0:11:08 | 0:11:15 | |
but people stand as independents and then after that... | 0:11:15 | 0:11:19 | |
In Powys you have the Pigs and the Nigs, as they're called. | 0:11:19 | 0:11:23 | |
You have an independent group and then independent independent and so on. | 0:11:23 | 0:11:27 | |
Shouldn't there be some sort of manifesto or some kind | 0:11:27 | 0:11:32 | |
of indication from the independent candidate as to what he or she intends? | 0:11:32 | 0:11:37 | |
There should be a manifesto when there is an independent group | 0:11:37 | 0:11:41 | |
putting itself forward as an independent party. | 0:11:41 | 0:11:44 | |
The fact is you have a collection of individuals | 0:11:44 | 0:11:48 | |
and they are there to do what they believe is right, | 0:11:48 | 0:11:51 | |
without being influenced by political parties or party whips. | 0:11:51 | 0:11:56 | |
If that is not acceptable then the majority will be reduced on May 4th. | 0:11:56 | 0:12:03 | |
That is the situation. People are sick of party politics. | 0:12:03 | 0:12:12 | |
Eluned, what's the behind this idea of not having a national Labour manifesto? | 0:12:12 | 0:12:18 | |
Is it laziness? A lack of a message? Or is it devolution? | 0:12:18 | 0:12:22 | |
I think it is devolution, but also an acknowledgement that what | 0:12:22 | 0:12:26 | |
happens locally is something on which local people should decide. | 0:12:26 | 0:12:31 | |
That is something very different to what we have seen in the past. | 0:12:31 | 0:12:37 | |
Coming back to this point, | 0:12:37 | 0:12:40 | |
with independent people there is a lack of accountability. | 0:12:40 | 0:12:45 | |
When you decide on school closures or this and that, | 0:12:45 | 0:12:50 | |
there is no way for people to come back to the group. They can only return to the individual. | 0:12:50 | 0:12:58 | |
And the other thing is I think there is a danger the people who really have the power then is the officers | 0:12:58 | 0:13:04 | |
who run the council because there is no wider vision within a group. | 0:13:04 | 0:13:12 | |
If that is the case, why did the people of Wales, four years ago, | 0:13:12 | 0:13:17 | |
choose more independent councillors than Labour councillors? | 0:13:17 | 0:13:22 | |
And saying we are not accountable - there is accountability. | 0:13:22 | 0:13:27 | |
There is nothing more accountable than the voting booth. | 0:13:27 | 0:13:32 | |
Thank you. The gap between what is spent on pupils in England | 0:13:32 | 0:13:35 | |
and Wales has had plenty of attention. | 0:13:35 | 0:13:38 | |
But what about the differences between different councils in Wales? | 0:13:38 | 0:13:44 | |
Government figures show that some local authorities are better | 0:13:44 | 0:13:47 | |
than others in ensuring that money reaches the classroom. | 0:13:47 | 0:13:50 | |
By why? Carl Roberts has been scratching his head. | 0:13:50 | 0:13:55 | |
It's a common complaint that less money is spent on education in Wales, compared to England. | 0:13:55 | 0:14:02 | |
It's around £600 per head per year, on average. | 0:14:02 | 0:14:07 | |
But the differences between the different councils is also striking. | 0:14:07 | 0:14:14 | |
On average, nearly £5,500 per head is spent every year. | 0:14:14 | 0:14:19 | |
That figure corresponds to 76% being distributed directly to schools, | 0:14:19 | 0:14:25 | |
with authorities retaining the remainder centrally. | 0:14:25 | 0:14:29 | |
We want to ensure that the bureaucracy is reduced. | 0:14:29 | 0:14:35 | |
Where it is possible, we must ensure that every penny is used. | 0:14:35 | 0:14:39 | |
The Welsh Government wants to see high levels of spending | 0:14:39 | 0:14:42 | |
reaching the frontline. | 0:14:42 | 0:14:44 | |
It's 80% at the moment. They want to see that rising to 85%. | 0:14:44 | 0:14:47 | |
If that happens without increasing the bureaucracy, | 0:14:47 | 0:14:50 | |
that will improve the situation. | 0:14:50 | 0:14:53 | |
But there is no certainty that spending more money on frontline | 0:14:53 | 0:14:56 | |
services will close the spending gap between local authorities. | 0:14:56 | 0:15:01 | |
According to the latest figures, Ceredigion Council | 0:15:01 | 0:15:06 | |
spends the most on education, nearly £6,500 per child on average. | 0:15:06 | 0:15:11 | |
In the Vale of Glamorgan, the council spends less than £5,000 per head on education. | 0:15:11 | 0:15:16 | |
That's a difference of over £1,500. | 0:15:16 | 0:15:20 | |
Spending more is not always positive. | 0:15:20 | 0:15:22 | |
You have to consider the standard of the education, the standard | 0:15:22 | 0:15:25 | |
of the building and the standard of support the child receives. | 0:15:25 | 0:15:29 | |
That also affects the child's attitude, | 0:15:29 | 0:15:32 | |
the parent's attitude towards the school and the teachers' attitudes. | 0:15:32 | 0:15:37 | |
That will also be reflected in the school's performance. | 0:15:37 | 0:15:43 | |
The Welsh Government is also keen to see more money reaching the classroom | 0:15:43 | 0:15:46 | |
and says that local authorities have agreed to increase the percentage | 0:15:46 | 0:15:50 | |
of money spent by the schools themselves over the coming years. | 0:15:50 | 0:15:55 | |
John Davies, wearing your WLGA hat now, | 0:15:58 | 0:16:01 | |
explain first of all why the money that comes from here | 0:16:01 | 0:16:05 | |
to the local authorities doesn't go straight to the schools. | 0:16:05 | 0:16:09 | |
We've heard around 76% on average. What about that other quarter? | 0:16:09 | 0:16:16 | |
76%, there is an agreement to increase that to 85%, | 0:16:16 | 0:16:20 | |
as mentioned in the report. | 0:16:20 | 0:16:23 | |
But there is a lot more behind the headlines. | 0:16:23 | 0:16:26 | |
You need to compare like with like. | 0:16:26 | 0:16:29 | |
Special needs education requires a lot of spending. | 0:16:29 | 0:16:32 | |
And that happens in different ways in different local authorities. | 0:16:32 | 0:16:36 | |
Ceredigion, at the top of the tree as regards spending, | 0:16:36 | 0:16:41 | |
but Ceredigion has more small schools per head than many other counties. | 0:16:41 | 0:16:45 | |
Their spending is not necessarily going to the classroom, | 0:16:45 | 0:16:50 | |
or the individual pupil, it's going to the location. | 0:16:50 | 0:16:54 | |
In the Vale, there are good results. | 0:16:54 | 0:16:58 | |
The education authority has a good reputation, | 0:16:58 | 0:17:02 | |
but less money is being spent. | 0:17:02 | 0:17:05 | |
1,300 on average is kept back in reserve. | 0:17:05 | 0:17:09 | |
-Transport in Powys and Gwynedd... -Is too much held back in reserve? | 0:17:09 | 0:17:15 | |
Clearly, there's a commitment to increase the amount reaching the schools. | 0:17:15 | 0:17:22 | |
There are good reasons for that. Transport is a part of that. | 0:17:22 | 0:17:26 | |
In places like Powys, transport in rural areas is much higher | 0:17:26 | 0:17:31 | |
than it is in somewhere like Merthyr. | 0:17:31 | 0:17:35 | |
When you look at that factor, the bureaucracy, there's not much in it. | 0:17:35 | 0:17:40 | |
It's very small. | 0:17:40 | 0:17:43 | |
Is money the important thing here? John mentioned the Vale of Glamorgan. | 0:17:43 | 0:17:49 | |
We know that some of these schools are getting the best results in Wales. | 0:17:49 | 0:17:55 | |
Comparing like with like is important. | 0:17:55 | 0:18:00 | |
You have to be very careful. | 0:18:00 | 0:18:03 | |
If you have a lot of schools, a lot of money is spent on buildings | 0:18:03 | 0:18:08 | |
and heating and wages, of course. | 0:18:08 | 0:18:10 | |
Special needs education also, if you have to place a child outside the county as a result | 0:18:10 | 0:18:17 | |
of special needs, that can cost £50,000 to £100,000 per head. | 0:18:17 | 0:18:22 | |
Maybe more in some cases. That all affects the picture. | 0:18:22 | 0:18:27 | |
What I think is important is to remember the bigger the school, | 0:18:27 | 0:18:35 | |
the more money you can take directly to deal with situations. | 0:18:35 | 0:18:41 | |
But if you're in a comparatively small school and you have a child | 0:18:41 | 0:18:46 | |
with special needs, you can't look after that child within | 0:18:46 | 0:18:51 | |
the amount received by the school, so the situation is complicated. | 0:18:51 | 0:18:56 | |
You need to be careful when comparing different counties. | 0:18:56 | 0:19:01 | |
As you found in Gwynedd four years ago, and as other councils | 0:19:01 | 0:19:04 | |
have seen, sometimes it's very difficult to explain to parents | 0:19:04 | 0:19:09 | |
- to get the best value for money, we have to make difficult decisions. | 0:19:09 | 0:19:13 | |
To be fair, communities have strong ties to their schools. | 0:19:13 | 0:19:19 | |
That is particularly strong in rural areas. And especially in Gwynedd. | 0:19:19 | 0:19:24 | |
I think that a lesson was learned. | 0:19:24 | 0:19:29 | |
Although the aims were fair. | 0:19:29 | 0:19:32 | |
Other counties have closed schools with much less fuss, including Ceredigion. | 0:19:32 | 0:19:37 | |
But it is not a matter of closing schools. | 0:19:37 | 0:19:41 | |
It's seeing what's best and how you can make the most out of the money you have. | 0:19:41 | 0:19:47 | |
This is a debate that is continuing and will continue. | 0:19:47 | 0:19:52 | |
But with fewer children, especially in some rural areas, | 0:19:52 | 0:19:56 | |
some parts of Wales, it is a fragile situation. | 0:19:56 | 0:20:00 | |
Not just in primary schools, but in secondary schools. | 0:20:00 | 0:20:04 | |
For parents watching who are concerned about their children's education, | 0:20:04 | 0:20:10 | |
the curriculum is decided here. AMs make those decisions. But councillors are important. | 0:20:10 | 0:20:16 | |
Yes, they are. | 0:20:16 | 0:20:18 | |
As a parent, what is important is that your child has a good education. | 0:20:18 | 0:20:23 | |
They're not comparing this county with that county. | 0:20:23 | 0:20:30 | |
We have to compare performances with our friends in England. | 0:20:30 | 0:20:34 | |
Our children will be competing with them in a few years' time. | 0:20:34 | 0:20:38 | |
Unless we sort out the problems right across Wales, | 0:20:38 | 0:20:42 | |
there will be problems. | 0:20:42 | 0:20:44 | |
So we should be concentrating on raising standards. | 0:20:44 | 0:20:49 | |
But that's the job of Leighton Andrews. | 0:20:49 | 0:20:53 | |
But it's not possible to do this without cooperation. | 0:20:53 | 0:20:57 | |
It's a fact that there has been an agreement between local government and the Assembly. | 0:20:57 | 0:21:05 | |
People understand on the two levels that it is a problem | 0:21:05 | 0:21:09 | |
and we must work together to raise standards. | 0:21:09 | 0:21:13 | |
I don't want to discuss the Assembly too much, | 0:21:13 | 0:21:17 | |
but Labour has been in power for 12 years. | 0:21:17 | 0:21:21 | |
It's a bit late to start realising there's a problem. | 0:21:21 | 0:21:25 | |
Well, there is a problem. We've seen there is a problem. | 0:21:25 | 0:21:29 | |
Maybe we should have been acting sooner, but this is where we are. | 0:21:29 | 0:21:34 | |
We've seen there is a target. | 0:21:34 | 0:21:36 | |
We've increased the amount of money we spend on education. | 0:21:36 | 0:21:41 | |
So I hope we will now see an improvement. | 0:21:41 | 0:21:46 | |
I'm glad that Eluned acknowledges that there is a problem. | 0:21:46 | 0:21:51 | |
It has been 12 years. | 0:21:51 | 0:21:54 | |
What is needed now is to learn from that failure | 0:21:54 | 0:21:58 | |
and let our teachers do the simple thing, to educate our children. | 0:21:58 | 0:22:03 | |
With the best will in the world, | 0:22:03 | 0:22:05 | |
we've tried to do too much within the curriculum. | 0:22:05 | 0:22:10 | |
We need those basic elements to teach our children. | 0:22:10 | 0:22:14 | |
Would that be the independent manifesto? | 0:22:14 | 0:22:18 | |
The Pembrokeshire Council manifesto has always been very close, as regards education. | 0:22:18 | 0:22:24 | |
Alun mentioned spending and school closures, | 0:22:24 | 0:22:27 | |
Pembrokeshire Council has been leading the way. | 0:22:27 | 0:22:32 | |
Eluned mentioned the importance of bringing the councils and the assembly together. | 0:22:32 | 0:22:37 | |
-As regards independent members, that is not possible. -Of course it is. It now happens regionally. | 0:22:37 | 0:22:44 | |
Every council in Wales has signed an agreement with the education minister to raise standards. | 0:22:44 | 0:22:50 | |
We all realise the importance of that. | 0:22:50 | 0:22:55 | |
Alun Ffred, you have been a minister, a council leader, | 0:22:55 | 0:22:59 | |
is the relationship close enough? | 0:22:59 | 0:23:02 | |
No. And there is a lot of nonsense talked about links | 0:23:02 | 0:23:07 | |
between ministers and local government. | 0:23:07 | 0:23:11 | |
I'm sure John will say everything is fine. | 0:23:11 | 0:23:15 | |
But the truth is it is not always good. | 0:23:15 | 0:23:19 | |
We must avoid what has happened in England | 0:23:19 | 0:23:22 | |
where we have seen the minister virtually attacking teachers and schools. | 0:23:22 | 0:23:28 | |
I think we need to raise standards, that is true. | 0:23:28 | 0:23:32 | |
All parents want the best for their children. | 0:23:32 | 0:23:36 | |
It's important there's an understanding | 0:23:36 | 0:23:39 | |
and we don't try to break teachers and schools by being over critical. | 0:23:39 | 0:23:45 | |
But the performance is not consistent. | 0:23:45 | 0:23:48 | |
-There are some weak areas. -Sorry, on that note, we must leave it. | 0:23:48 | 0:23:52 | |
Thank you. That's it for tonight. | 0:23:52 | 0:23:54 | |
We'll be back at the same time next Wednesday. | 0:23:54 | 0:23:58 | |
We'll be joined by the Conservatives and the Lib Dems. | 0:23:58 | 0:24:02 | |
-Until then, good night. -Good night. | 0:24:02 | 0:24:05 |