Browse content similar to 23/05/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Hello and welcome to CF99 for half an hour of political discussion. | 0:00:19 | 0:00:24 | |
Tonight, the euro is in peril | 0:00:24 | 0:00:25 | |
and what is the effect on the Welsh economy? | 0:00:25 | 0:00:29 | |
And does the way we elect Assembly Members need to change? | 0:00:29 | 0:00:32 | |
We will discuss the Welsh Secretary's comments. | 0:00:32 | 0:00:37 | |
Joining us tonight is the AM and former Plaid Cymru leader, | 0:00:37 | 0:00:40 | |
Ieuan Wyn Jones. Economist Dr Martin Rhisiart, | 0:00:40 | 0:00:46 | |
and Conservative MP, Guto Bebb, who joins us from our Westminster. | 0:00:46 | 0:00:49 | |
Welcome. | 0:00:49 | 0:00:52 | |
The leaders of the eurozone countries are in Brussels | 0:00:52 | 0:00:55 | |
to try to ease the strain on the euro in Greece and beyond. | 0:00:55 | 0:01:01 | |
It is quite a task bearing in mind the OECD warns the euro crisis | 0:01:01 | 0:01:04 | |
is the biggest threat to the global economy. | 0:01:04 | 0:01:09 | |
But what are the possible repercussions here in Wales? | 0:01:09 | 0:01:12 | |
James Williams reports. | 0:01:12 | 0:01:15 | |
The Greek Orthodox Church in Cardiff. | 0:01:25 | 0:01:28 | |
Congregants here are seeing their country suffer in the distance. | 0:01:28 | 0:01:33 | |
After uncertainty, they say it is difficult | 0:01:33 | 0:01:35 | |
for the country to keep its faith in the euro. | 0:01:35 | 0:01:39 | |
I'm concerned about the situation. | 0:01:39 | 0:01:42 | |
I don't want to see what happened in the '30s | 0:01:42 | 0:01:47 | |
happen again to the country of Greece. | 0:01:47 | 0:01:50 | |
We have to make sure that people can turn against each other. | 0:01:50 | 0:01:55 | |
The danger is what happens in Greece | 0:01:55 | 0:01:57 | |
could cause a domino-effect in Europe. | 0:01:57 | 0:02:00 | |
David Cameron has said he is considering the general election | 0:02:00 | 0:02:04 | |
in Greece as a referendum on being part of Europe. | 0:02:04 | 0:02:08 | |
The prime minister is worried that if the people of Greece | 0:02:08 | 0:02:11 | |
don't make a clear point in the elections, | 0:02:11 | 0:02:15 | |
it could cause problems for other economies. | 0:02:15 | 0:02:19 | |
The eurozone countries are dependent on other economies. | 0:02:19 | 0:02:24 | |
As a result of this, Welsh meat export is booming. | 0:02:24 | 0:02:28 | |
Exports in Britain are at their highest ever point. | 0:02:28 | 0:02:32 | |
But for other industries which have had problems in the past, | 0:02:32 | 0:02:35 | |
this is not a time to rest on their laurels. | 0:02:35 | 0:02:38 | |
Looking to the Far East and the Middle East, Canada, | 0:02:38 | 0:02:44 | |
we have been very successful exporting to those countries. | 0:02:44 | 0:02:48 | |
It also means that we are less dependent on eurozone countries | 0:02:48 | 0:02:53 | |
and that will become more and more important as time goes on. | 0:02:53 | 0:02:57 | |
But what about those not in the traditional businesses? | 0:02:57 | 0:03:02 | |
But what about new industries? | 0:03:02 | 0:03:05 | |
Starting up a business is always going to be a risk. | 0:03:05 | 0:03:09 | |
With the current economic climate in Europe, | 0:03:09 | 0:03:13 | |
we are not going to aim for European markets without being competitive. | 0:03:13 | 0:03:18 | |
With the UK in another period of recession | 0:03:18 | 0:03:24 | |
how do people in places like Carmarthen feel about the future? | 0:03:24 | 0:03:28 | |
I happen to be a farmer. It has a massive impact on us. | 0:03:28 | 0:03:32 | |
The strength of the pound and the euro | 0:03:32 | 0:03:38 | |
has a massive effect on what we get for our produce. | 0:03:38 | 0:03:41 | |
Everything has gone up in price apart from our wages. | 0:03:41 | 0:03:46 | |
I think instead of the austerity measures, | 0:03:46 | 0:03:49 | |
we need to put more money into the economy. | 0:03:49 | 0:03:54 | |
We have two problems, people are earning less money | 0:03:54 | 0:03:59 | |
and so they are spending less. | 0:03:59 | 0:04:03 | |
They are starting to pay back their debt rather than take out loans. | 0:04:03 | 0:04:07 | |
So that makes it difficult for companies to plan for the future | 0:04:07 | 0:04:11 | |
and it is harder to take on staff and to expand | 0:04:11 | 0:04:15 | |
which makes the problem even worse. | 0:04:15 | 0:04:17 | |
These decisions over the future of the euro won't be made lightly. | 0:04:17 | 0:04:24 | |
These congregants are hoping their country could be resurrected. | 0:04:24 | 0:04:30 | |
That report from the Greek Orthodox Church in Cardiff Bay. | 0:04:33 | 0:04:38 | |
Guto Bebb, you have been cynical about the euro from the start. | 0:04:38 | 0:04:43 | |
But nobody could have predicted this. Is that right? | 0:04:43 | 0:04:46 | |
-Do you hear me, Guto Bebb? -No. | 0:04:49 | 0:04:52 | |
I'll ask the question again, as a euro doubter, | 0:04:52 | 0:04:56 | |
You are not happy with what's happening? | 0:04:56 | 0:04:58 | |
No, not at all. | 0:04:58 | 0:05:01 | |
What's frustrating is that we had foreseen this. | 0:05:01 | 0:05:07 | |
Many people in Britain and beyond thought that they knew better | 0:05:07 | 0:05:11 | |
than us eurosceptics. | 0:05:11 | 0:05:13 | |
But the truth is, if the eurozone continues as it is, | 0:05:13 | 0:05:17 | |
it's very difficult to see where economic growth | 0:05:17 | 0:05:21 | |
is going to come from. | 0:05:21 | 0:05:25 | |
If the situation remains the same in Europe | 0:05:25 | 0:05:28 | |
interest rates are going to rise and become less competitive | 0:05:28 | 0:05:33 | |
because banks are holding on to their funds. | 0:05:33 | 0:05:39 | |
It is a very dangerous situation, | 0:05:39 | 0:05:42 | |
but the sad thing is that some people did foresee this. | 0:05:42 | 0:05:47 | |
It's sad that the European Union is going to be split by this. | 0:05:47 | 0:05:53 | |
Do you think we will have to split, | 0:05:54 | 0:05:56 | |
Do you think Greece and some other countries | 0:05:56 | 0:05:59 | |
will have to leave the euro? | 0:05:59 | 0:06:03 | |
Greece isn't really the biggest question. | 0:06:03 | 0:06:09 | |
Greece is the same size in Europe as Bath is in the UK. | 0:06:09 | 0:06:12 | |
Greece is not the problem by now. | 0:06:12 | 0:06:15 | |
But if Greece leaves the euro, the question is | 0:06:15 | 0:06:19 | |
whether or not Italy, Spain and Portugal can remain. | 0:06:19 | 0:06:24 | |
It has a knock-on effect. | 0:06:24 | 0:06:27 | |
And the debts of those countries make the Greek debts | 0:06:27 | 0:06:31 | |
look like child's play. | 0:06:31 | 0:06:32 | |
We have to ensure that the future of Greece within the eurozone | 0:06:32 | 0:06:37 | |
is secure. | 0:06:37 | 0:06:38 | |
The effect of seeing Greece leave the euro would mean that | 0:06:38 | 0:06:42 | |
Spain, Italy and Portugal would fall like dominoes. | 0:06:42 | 0:06:47 | |
Martin Rhisiart, the leaders are currently meeting in Brussels. | 0:06:47 | 0:06:52 | |
This is being portrayed as a choice between Angela Merkel's | 0:06:52 | 0:06:57 | |
austerity measures and Francois Hollande's spending for growth, | 0:06:57 | 0:07:02 | |
but don't we need both? | 0:07:02 | 0:07:04 | |
We do need both. | 0:07:04 | 0:07:07 | |
They do have different points of view and Germany has more to lose | 0:07:07 | 0:07:13 | |
by going towards eurobonds for example, | 0:07:13 | 0:07:16 | |
which would spread out these debts. | 0:07:16 | 0:07:19 | |
It is not a choice between one or the other because we need both. | 0:07:19 | 0:07:23 | |
But we need some positive and creative options | 0:07:23 | 0:07:27 | |
to make sure that there is economic growth. | 0:07:27 | 0:07:29 | |
All of these options basically deal with moving wealth | 0:07:29 | 0:07:36 | |
from the north to the south. | 0:07:36 | 0:07:40 | |
Especially the wealth from Germany | 0:07:40 | 0:07:44 | |
and spread it out among other countries? | 0:07:44 | 0:07:47 | |
Yes, if all these countries had followed the rules | 0:07:47 | 0:07:51 | |
we wouldn't be in this situation. | 0:07:51 | 0:07:54 | |
Britain has been able to use quantitative easing. | 0:07:54 | 0:07:59 | |
We have dealt with some of these debts in those ways. | 0:07:59 | 0:08:04 | |
In the eurozone, that isn't possible. | 0:08:04 | 0:08:06 | |
We have to move wealth from the north to the south | 0:08:06 | 0:08:09 | |
and that is where political difficulties arise | 0:08:09 | 0:08:14 | |
because Greece are being forced to accept these financial packages | 0:08:14 | 0:08:19 | |
or face dire consequences. | 0:08:19 | 0:08:24 | |
Ieuan Wyn Jones, if you were there tonight, | 0:08:24 | 0:08:28 | |
would you be encouraging Angela Merkel | 0:08:28 | 0:08:33 | |
to open those purse strings and spend? | 0:08:33 | 0:08:36 | |
It is possible to spend because there isn't the money. | 0:08:36 | 0:08:40 | |
But maybe we need to take a more soft approach to Angela Merkel. | 0:08:40 | 0:08:44 | |
If this is going to work, we need to keep Greece within the euro. | 0:08:44 | 0:08:49 | |
But if countries within the euro start to vote against it, | 0:08:49 | 0:08:54 | |
we will see the political pressure increase on Greece | 0:08:54 | 0:09:00 | |
to leave the euro. | 0:09:00 | 0:09:04 | |
Guto Bebb and I haven't agreed over this euro question, | 0:09:04 | 0:09:09 | |
but I would agree with him over the fact that it was a mistake | 0:09:09 | 0:09:13 | |
for Greece to join the euro in the first place. | 0:09:13 | 0:09:16 | |
It wasn't for economic reasons but for political reasons. | 0:09:16 | 0:09:21 | |
I don't think they or many other countries were prepared to join. | 0:09:21 | 0:09:28 | |
Would you and other politicians across Europe | 0:09:28 | 0:09:32 | |
let this ideology trump common sense? | 0:09:32 | 0:09:37 | |
There were people as Guto Bebb said, | 0:09:37 | 0:09:40 | |
saying at the time that these countries weren't ready. | 0:09:40 | 0:09:45 | |
Everything is going to turn into a complete mess. | 0:09:45 | 0:09:50 | |
I agree with the statement | 0:09:50 | 0:09:52 | |
that some countries joined when they weren't ready. | 0:09:52 | 0:09:55 | |
I was surprised when Greece and Spain joined when they did. | 0:09:55 | 0:10:01 | |
Some argued that Italy shouldn't have joined at the start. | 0:10:01 | 0:10:05 | |
The project was too important to be influenced by political pressures | 0:10:05 | 0:10:10 | |
and I think Germany then was eager to see this happen | 0:10:10 | 0:10:14 | |
for reasons beyond economics and finance. | 0:10:14 | 0:10:17 | |
Let's bring this back home. | 0:10:17 | 0:10:19 | |
Guto Bebb, looking at France, they haven't had much growth | 0:10:19 | 0:10:24 | |
but no recession and they are in the euro. | 0:10:24 | 0:10:27 | |
There is growth in Germany and they are in the euro. | 0:10:27 | 0:10:29 | |
But Britain isn't in the euro | 0:10:29 | 0:10:33 | |
and yet we are in a double-dip recession, | 0:10:33 | 0:10:35 | |
so it's a recession created in Downing Street. | 0:10:35 | 0:10:38 | |
Labour were right? | 0:10:38 | 0:10:39 | |
No. I think the reason we are in the trouble we are in | 0:10:39 | 0:10:44 | |
is because there was reckless spending during New Labour. | 0:10:44 | 0:10:50 | |
Half of Europe's credit card bill is in Britain. | 0:10:50 | 0:10:54 | |
A third of all European mortgages is in Britain. | 0:10:54 | 0:10:58 | |
The situation here is, the public has such a high level of debt | 0:10:58 | 0:11:03 | |
it cannot sustain the economy in a growth situation. | 0:11:03 | 0:11:09 | |
We see that we the economy is exporting more | 0:11:09 | 0:11:11 | |
and we are creating more private sector jobs. | 0:11:11 | 0:11:15 | |
So where is the plan for growth? | 0:11:15 | 0:11:18 | |
Christine Lagarde said we needed to perhaps consider Plan B? | 0:11:18 | 0:11:24 | |
She didn't say that it was definitely time for that yet, | 0:11:24 | 0:11:27 | |
but she was doubtful about the success of the current plan. | 0:11:27 | 0:11:30 | |
I would say that our decisions have saved | 0:11:30 | 0:11:34 | |
Britain from a catastrophic situation. | 0:11:34 | 0:11:36 | |
We have lost our ability to pay our way in the world. | 0:11:36 | 0:11:41 | |
I find this plan for growth ridiculous. | 0:11:41 | 0:11:45 | |
Are you really suggesting that this Westminster Government | 0:11:45 | 0:11:48 | |
doesn't have a plan for growth? That is a silly suggestion. | 0:11:48 | 0:11:51 | |
We are trying to take control of the debt | 0:11:51 | 0:11:54 | |
and invest in the country | 0:11:54 | 0:11:57 | |
and public spending isn't falling at a dramatic rate. | 0:11:57 | 0:12:01 | |
It is being treated sustainably | 0:12:01 | 0:12:04 | |
so that Britain can borrow money at rates that countries such as | 0:12:04 | 0:12:07 | |
Italy, France and Spain can only dream of. | 0:12:07 | 0:12:11 | |
In Europe, Germany is the only country borrowing | 0:12:11 | 0:12:14 | |
at better rates than Britain. | 0:12:14 | 0:12:16 | |
That is as a result of the current plan. | 0:12:16 | 0:12:19 | |
Ken Clarke said that only a fool would say they wouldn't want growth. | 0:12:19 | 0:12:26 | |
The problem is how to achieve growth in view of what is | 0:12:26 | 0:12:30 | |
going on in the eurozone. | 0:12:30 | 0:12:33 | |
Yes, Christine Lagarde suggested more quantitative easing. | 0:12:33 | 0:12:37 | |
There are suggestions that another round of that will | 0:12:37 | 0:12:40 | |
happen in coming months. | 0:12:40 | 0:12:42 | |
She suggested we dropped interest rates which is currently at 0.5% | 0:12:42 | 0:12:47 | |
so it can't go down much more. | 0:12:47 | 0:12:49 | |
There isn't any certainty the banks would transfer that cut | 0:12:49 | 0:12:52 | |
to companies anyway. | 0:12:52 | 0:12:56 | |
And for many people, especially older people who depend on savings, | 0:12:56 | 0:13:02 | |
that lowers their savings. | 0:13:02 | 0:13:06 | |
They will have less money to spend to feed back into the economy. | 0:13:06 | 0:13:12 | |
Yes, it is quite a grim picture at the moment. | 0:13:12 | 0:13:15 | |
About 40% of our markets in Wales deal with eurozone countries. | 0:13:15 | 0:13:19 | |
If there is a drop in the euro there will be a run on the banks, | 0:13:19 | 0:13:23 | |
and it's nu surprise some British banks would go bust. | 0:13:23 | 0:13:26 | |
Stress tests have been released by the FSA | 0:13:26 | 0:13:32 | |
and banks would have less money to lend to consumers. | 0:13:32 | 0:13:39 | |
Ieuan Wyn Jones, as the man who was responsible for the economy | 0:13:39 | 0:13:44 | |
what should Carwyn Jones do about this? | 0:13:44 | 0:13:47 | |
Another thing that Christine Lagarde said - | 0:13:47 | 0:13:49 | |
and what the UK Government hasn't agreed to - is about infrastructure. | 0:13:49 | 0:13:54 | |
You can stimulate the economy that way. | 0:13:54 | 0:14:00 | |
-And the Government here isn't doing that? -No. | 0:14:00 | 0:14:02 | |
Not in the way I would like to see it. | 0:14:02 | 0:14:04 | |
The Westminster Government isn't doing that either. | 0:14:04 | 0:14:07 | |
Part of the UK Government's problem is, | 0:14:07 | 0:14:09 | |
when they published this plan, | 0:14:09 | 0:14:11 | |
they predicted a growth of 2% and it is at less than 1%. | 0:14:11 | 0:14:15 | |
What about the government here? | 0:14:15 | 0:14:17 | |
The macroeconomic issues are in the hands of Westminster. | 0:14:17 | 0:14:22 | |
The Assembly Government has a peripheral impact on this. | 0:14:22 | 0:14:27 | |
The Westminster Government hasn't got a Plan B. | 0:14:27 | 0:14:32 | |
Their plan has failed because growth is at half the rate | 0:14:32 | 0:14:35 | |
than they expected and people will as a result lose their jobs. | 0:14:35 | 0:14:38 | |
The Welsh Secretary has launched a consultation which looks at how | 0:14:38 | 0:14:43 | |
Assembly Members should be elected in future. | 0:14:43 | 0:14:45 | |
At its roots are plans to reduce the number of Welsh MPs to 30. | 0:14:45 | 0:14:51 | |
If the plans see the light of day, Cheryl Gillan recommends the Assembly | 0:14:51 | 0:14:55 | |
election system should be changed to ensure across-the-board fairness. | 0:14:55 | 0:15:01 | |
Elliw Gwawr has been looking into this. | 0:15:01 | 0:15:04 | |
In 2004, the Richards Commission suggested increasing | 0:15:11 | 0:15:15 | |
the number of Assembly Members to 80. | 0:15:15 | 0:15:18 | |
The recent One Wales Convention | 0:15:18 | 0:15:20 | |
said the current number is sufficient. | 0:15:20 | 0:15:23 | |
What will this consultation offer? | 0:15:23 | 0:15:27 | |
One option is to create 30 new constituencies | 0:15:27 | 0:15:30 | |
to match the number of Westminster seats, | 0:15:30 | 0:15:32 | |
with the number of regional seats increasing from 20 to 30. | 0:15:32 | 0:15:38 | |
Another option is to remain with the 40 constituencies | 0:15:38 | 0:15:40 | |
and the 20 regions but change the boundaries | 0:15:40 | 0:15:43 | |
so that they are more equal in size. | 0:15:43 | 0:15:45 | |
I think the people of Wales should have a say in this. | 0:15:45 | 0:15:51 | |
We shouldn't feed people the system from Westminster. | 0:15:51 | 0:15:56 | |
It should be put to the vote. | 0:15:56 | 0:15:58 | |
The Conservatives in the Assembly say that the current system works | 0:16:01 | 0:16:06 | |
and they will campaign against any changes. | 0:16:06 | 0:16:10 | |
But if there are to be changes, Peter Hain has already said that they would | 0:16:10 | 0:16:14 | |
favour 30 constituencies with two elected through first past the post. | 0:16:14 | 0:16:20 | |
Cheryl Gillan has rejected this suggestion. | 0:16:20 | 0:16:23 | |
It looks to me as though a Westminster agenda | 0:16:24 | 0:16:27 | |
is taking priority here. | 0:16:27 | 0:16:28 | |
I don't think that there is an appetite or mandate in Wales | 0:16:28 | 0:16:32 | |
for this kind of change. | 0:16:32 | 0:16:34 | |
Perhaps this is a matter which excites political anoraks, | 0:16:34 | 0:16:38 | |
but what about ordinary people? | 0:16:38 | 0:16:41 | |
Guto Bebb, why should we change the current system? | 0:16:45 | 0:16:52 | |
A good question. | 0:16:52 | 0:16:54 | |
I think that there is evidence to suggest a Scottish situation | 0:16:54 | 0:16:59 | |
can create complexities. | 0:16:59 | 0:17:02 | |
The Scottish Parliament have different seats, | 0:17:02 | 0:17:05 | |
different constituencies to the Westminster constituencies. | 0:17:05 | 0:17:08 | |
I do wonder why the green paper didn't include the status quo | 0:17:08 | 0:17:12 | |
as an option. | 0:17:12 | 0:17:14 | |
If it's a paper looking for people's opinions | 0:17:14 | 0:17:18 | |
I think it should be at least one of the choices. | 0:17:18 | 0:17:20 | |
I'm not comfortable with the idea of having 40 seats | 0:17:20 | 0:17:25 | |
being made equal in terms of size because I think one of the problems | 0:17:25 | 0:17:31 | |
we have in Wales is the feeling in North, Mid and West Wales | 0:17:31 | 0:17:35 | |
is that the Assembly is quite Cardiff-centric. | 0:17:35 | 0:17:38 | |
I think that change the boundaries to create 40 equal sized areas | 0:17:38 | 0:17:44 | |
would be a mistake. | 0:17:44 | 0:17:45 | |
I sympathize with the argument that the Assembly needs | 0:17:45 | 0:17:49 | |
to have a say in this. | 0:17:49 | 0:17:51 | |
You're not happy with Cheryl Gillan? | 0:17:51 | 0:17:54 | |
The Green Paper has been published to create a reaction. | 0:17:54 | 0:17:59 | |
I will respond to it in that spirit. | 0:17:59 | 0:18:02 | |
I feel as though the Liberal Democrats and the Conservatives | 0:18:02 | 0:18:06 | |
have a mandate to change the boundary changes in Westminster, | 0:18:06 | 0:18:10 | |
it was in the Conservative manifesto but it didn't mention the Assembly. | 0:18:10 | 0:18:15 | |
I think forcing a change without Assembly backing | 0:18:15 | 0:18:19 | |
would really raise some questions over whether or not | 0:18:19 | 0:18:22 | |
the Assembly should make its own decisions over such matters. | 0:18:22 | 0:18:26 | |
That's what I'll say. | 0:18:26 | 0:18:28 | |
So you think they should keep their nose out of it? | 0:18:28 | 0:18:31 | |
-Sorry? -They shouldn't interfere. | 0:18:31 | 0:18:34 | |
No, I think it is important to encourage debate, | 0:18:34 | 0:18:37 | |
but if they want a response, it is important that Conservative members | 0:18:37 | 0:18:41 | |
and all other party members should have their say. | 0:18:41 | 0:18:46 | |
I'm sympathetic to the idea of having 30 seats | 0:18:46 | 0:18:49 | |
and 30 regional seats, but it is not my decision as an MP. | 0:18:49 | 0:18:56 | |
Carwyn Jones made a similar argument. | 0:18:56 | 0:19:00 | |
Ieuan Wyn Jones, if Labour were to win 31 seats here, | 0:19:00 | 0:19:03 | |
which is quite possible, and the changes had been introduced, | 0:19:03 | 0:19:07 | |
there would be nothing to stop Labour from introducing | 0:19:07 | 0:19:10 | |
a first past the post system and Labour will be in power forever. | 0:19:10 | 0:19:14 | |
There are dangers in changing the voting system | 0:19:14 | 0:19:18 | |
without some kind of referendum beforehand? | 0:19:18 | 0:19:22 | |
I disagree with that. | 0:19:22 | 0:19:24 | |
I think it should be for the Assembly to decide. | 0:19:24 | 0:19:28 | |
-A simple majority? -No, we would need a consensus. | 0:19:28 | 0:19:31 | |
We would need a consensus in favour of it. | 0:19:31 | 0:19:34 | |
I don't think for a moment that Labour would in reality | 0:19:34 | 0:19:38 | |
consider pulling out of proportional representation. | 0:19:38 | 0:19:43 | |
It has happened here. | 0:19:43 | 0:19:45 | |
Peter Hain suggested the exact same thing. | 0:19:45 | 0:19:47 | |
The people of Wales just wouldn't accept | 0:19:47 | 0:19:49 | |
that as an option in the same way as they didn't accept | 0:19:49 | 0:19:53 | |
it as an option that the Assembly were to be dismantled. | 0:19:53 | 0:19:56 | |
It is something we have to tackle. | 0:19:56 | 0:19:59 | |
Guto is right. This Green Paper is very narrow | 0:19:59 | 0:20:02 | |
and it doesn't consider every possible option. | 0:20:02 | 0:20:05 | |
We should look at other options. | 0:20:05 | 0:20:07 | |
The Richard Commission suggested we look at the STV system. | 0:20:07 | 0:20:11 | |
That's what my party wants to see happening. | 0:20:11 | 0:20:14 | |
That has to be part of the discussion. | 0:20:14 | 0:20:17 | |
It goes back to the '90s when the Richard Commission was set up. | 0:20:17 | 0:20:21 | |
Do you think people are concerned about this? | 0:20:21 | 0:20:24 | |
We were talking about the economy and now there is another Green Paper | 0:20:24 | 0:20:27 | |
on the constitutional matter? | 0:20:27 | 0:20:29 | |
Is this what people are more likely to be talking about in the pub? | 0:20:29 | 0:20:32 | |
No. I don't think many will be talking about this. | 0:20:32 | 0:20:36 | |
I think they're most likely talking about jobs, | 0:20:36 | 0:20:39 | |
I don't think they'll be talking about the euro either, | 0:20:39 | 0:20:42 | |
but this is a topic of discussion for the political anoraks. | 0:20:42 | 0:20:47 | |
It is important to look at who should decide in this matter. | 0:20:47 | 0:20:50 | |
I would prefer to see something similar | 0:20:50 | 0:20:53 | |
to what the Richard Commission suggested. | 0:20:53 | 0:20:56 | |
We need more Members. | 0:20:56 | 0:20:58 | |
But is there potential for confusion if constituency boundaries | 0:20:58 | 0:21:02 | |
differ between these elections and the ones in Westminster? | 0:21:02 | 0:21:06 | |
Not really. | 0:21:06 | 0:21:08 | |
It works in Scotland. I don't think people like the result, | 0:21:08 | 0:21:11 | |
that the SNP is in power there. | 0:21:11 | 0:21:13 | |
It is clear that the people of Scotland can differentiate. | 0:21:13 | 0:21:16 | |
People are fairly sophisticated | 0:21:16 | 0:21:19 | |
and they understand what is going on. | 0:21:19 | 0:21:22 | |
When you have fought certain in constituencies | 0:21:22 | 0:21:26 | |
I don't think there is any cause for concern. | 0:21:26 | 0:21:30 | |
Another point in this Green Paper is the idea of this five-year | 0:21:30 | 0:21:35 | |
Assembly term, the same as Westminster. | 0:21:35 | 0:21:38 | |
Would you welcome that change? | 0:21:38 | 0:21:41 | |
I have no strong feelings on this matter. | 0:21:41 | 0:21:43 | |
I don't think there's much difference between four to five | 0:21:43 | 0:21:47 | |
or a difference between five to four. | 0:21:47 | 0:21:49 | |
I don't think that's being discussed in pubs either! | 0:21:49 | 0:21:52 | |
I think there are other interesting matters in the paper. | 0:21:52 | 0:21:57 | |
For instance I think it is a sensible suggestion | 0:21:57 | 0:22:01 | |
for people to stand for a constituency and a region. | 0:22:01 | 0:22:05 | |
I think Peter Hain's decision in 2006 had been created | 0:22:05 | 0:22:08 | |
to undermine the opposition parties. That's a step we should welcome. | 0:22:08 | 0:22:12 | |
It's three years in Australia. | 0:22:12 | 0:22:14 | |
Lord help us if that should happen here! | 0:22:14 | 0:22:19 | |
The important thing is not the length of the term, | 0:22:19 | 0:22:22 | |
but that it doesn't clash. | 0:22:22 | 0:22:24 | |
You don't want the Assembly and Westminster elections | 0:22:24 | 0:22:27 | |
on the same day. We have to avoid that. | 0:22:27 | 0:22:29 | |
We need to discuss this now. | 0:22:29 | 0:22:31 | |
From a Green Paper to The Western Mail newspaper | 0:22:31 | 0:22:33 | |
and today saw a backlash over the editorial on the front-page | 0:22:33 | 0:22:36 | |
of yesterday's paper. | 0:22:36 | 0:22:38 | |
The article attacked the suggestion by the committee overseeing | 0:22:38 | 0:22:41 | |
the Language Bill that all Assembly meetings should be | 0:22:41 | 0:22:44 | |
translated into Welsh at a cost of £400,000 a year? | 0:22:44 | 0:22:49 | |
What did you think of the paper when you saw this headline? | 0:22:49 | 0:22:54 | |
I was surprised. | 0:22:54 | 0:22:56 | |
Whatever The Western Mail is trying to argue | 0:22:56 | 0:22:58 | |
this is going to be seen as an attack on the language. | 0:22:58 | 0:23:00 | |
They are trying to argue that it wasn't. | 0:23:00 | 0:23:04 | |
That is how it is being taken and I think that is unfortunate. | 0:23:04 | 0:23:06 | |
This paper is seen as an important thing in the promotion | 0:23:06 | 0:23:10 | |
of the Welsh language. | 0:23:10 | 0:23:12 | |
-You'll still buy it? -I will still buy it. | 0:23:12 | 0:23:14 | |
But I know some people are talking about boycotting it. | 0:23:14 | 0:23:18 | |
This brings up a basic question about supporting the language. | 0:23:18 | 0:23:22 | |
It is very unfortunate that The Western Mail is being portrayed | 0:23:22 | 0:23:26 | |
as an anti-Welsh language newspaper now. | 0:23:26 | 0:23:29 | |
It was interesting from a business point of view. | 0:23:29 | 0:23:32 | |
This will alienate some of its readership? | 0:23:32 | 0:23:36 | |
Surely this was a mistake? | 0:23:36 | 0:23:40 | |
I think it was a tactical error | 0:23:40 | 0:23:42 | |
because consensus isn't always healthy in politics. | 0:23:42 | 0:23:45 | |
Somebody has to oppose the accepted status quo, | 0:23:45 | 0:23:49 | |
but I think it was the style and way in which it was done | 0:23:49 | 0:23:53 | |
that shocked people. | 0:23:53 | 0:23:54 | |
To put it on the front page, I think, was a poor tactic | 0:23:54 | 0:23:58 | |
and I think they will realise | 0:23:58 | 0:24:00 | |
that from the opposition they have received. | 0:24:00 | 0:24:03 | |
-Guto Bebb, was it a mistake? -Absolutely. | 0:24:03 | 0:24:06 | |
People from The Western Mail have been writing to us | 0:24:06 | 0:24:09 | |
asking us to persuade the Assembly to advertise in the paper. | 0:24:09 | 0:24:14 | |
It seems that advertising jobs in the paper is all right | 0:24:14 | 0:24:17 | |
but translating minutes into Welsh isn't. | 0:24:17 | 0:24:20 | |
I think that speaks volumes about The Western Mail. | 0:24:20 | 0:24:24 | |
Thank you. | 0:24:24 | 0:24:25 | |
That is all for tonight. See you at the same time next week. | 0:24:25 | 0:24:29 | |
Until then, goodbye. | 0:24:29 | 0:24:30 |