03/10/2012 CF99

Good evening. Welcome to the programme.

Tonight, a new slogan and new colours,

but is Ed Miliband's Labour in a new direction, as well?

And is there peace?

The Welsh Government opens a discussion

on the future of the National Eisteddfod.

We're joined by Rhys Williams from the Labour Party,

the Plaid Cymru Assembly Member Elin Jones

and the former Conservative Minister Rod Richards,

who is now a political commentator.

A warm welcome to the three of you.

Forget old Labour, Tony Blair's new Labour

or Rhodri Morgan's classic Labour.

There's a new name and a new image.

One Nation Labour.

Ed Miliband has claimed a Tory slogan

and says his party will rebuild a united Britain.

We'll discuss what that means in a moment,

but first, a look at his speech to the conference.

For more than an hour, he spoke from the heart about his upbringing,

his faith and his vision.

His performance has been praised.

So, is this the start of his march to Downing Street?

Bethan James reports.

APPLAUSE

Is this the next Prime Minister?

Is he a credible leader?

That is what has been concerning Labour Party members

in Manchester and across the country.

Image is just as important as policies,

and no-one is more aware of that than Ed Miliband.

Doing this job, you get called some names.

Some of them nice, some of them not so nice.

His performance at the conference was confident and personal,

with an emphasis on his background and education.

Less privileged to a degree than that of David Cameron and Nick Clegg.

My conviction is rooted in my family's story.

A story that starts a thousand miles from here.

Because the Milibands haven't sat under the same oak tree

for the last 500 years.

His speech has lifted the spirits of the party in Wales.

It was an excellent speech. He spoke about himself.

People wanted to know about Ed Miliband.

And I think people now know who he is.

He was confident. He was comfortable.

Not just with people in the hall, but on stage, as well.

He was talking about one nation, which is a strong message.

Substance is more important than image, and Ed knows that.

There was plenty of substance in his speech today.

He discussed issues such as banking, immigration,

the health service in England.

There was plenty of meat on the bones.

The coalition government in Westminster is unpopular,

with cuts in the public sector leading to intense protests.

But although Labour are ahead in the polls,

it seems the electorate are not yet ready to support the leader.

So, are there lessons to be learnt from the party in Wales,

where the party is in government?

We have a duty to show that a Labour government can work,

and it can work at a British level.

That's why we have put in place a programme of measures

for the benefit of Wales.

People beyond Wales say the image projected by the Welsh Labour Party

is not beneficial to the party as a whole.

The lesson to be learnt is how to operate a coalition government.

It could be a possibility after the next general election

if Labour and the Conservatives fail to win the majority.

Rhys, it says something that Ed Miliband

sees a need to reintroduce himself to the electorate

after being party leader for two years.

It was a breath of fresh air.

Especially when he talked about his own upbringing.

He went to Haverstock comprehensive school.

I think all of us, particularly in Wales, are sentimental.

I went to Ynysybwl primary school,

but at 11 years of age, I went to a school in Pontypridd.

My friends went to a different school.

I never played with the children I played with when I was 11.

But why does he need to say that?

I can see Ed Miliband has an image

of being a geek and an academic,

not being an everyday person.

Going on and on about the fact you have been to comprehensive school

may be him trying to appear as an average man.

How many ministers attended comprehensive schools?

Very few. I can't think of any at the moment.

But the fact that Ed Miliband has been party leader for two years,

compare him with Nick Clegg.

Nick Clegg has gone from hero to zero in no time.

Ed Miliband is the other way around.

He has worked his way up slowly.

But I have a lot more faith

in someone who climbs the ladder gradually

than someone who makes a quick impression and then changes.

Rod Richards, what about him calling Labour a one-nation party?

He coined the Disraeli phrase.

-Are the red tanks on Tory ground here?

-140 years late, maybe.

Is he saying that they haven't been a party for the nation

during that time?

I think in a way he has set a trap for himself

because as we approach the general election in two and a half years,

the leaders of all the parties, including him,

will have to concentrate on those people likely to vote for his party.

And therefore, there will be a focus on a certain element

of the electorate and not the entire electorate.

He is going to find it tougher

to carry the party's flag of "one nation".

And the other mistake I think he has made is trying to show

that he is closer to the people than David Cameron.

And using the example that he went to a comprehensive school

and that Cameron went to Eton.

And that is, according to yesterday's speech,

the only difference between them. What about his career?

The truth is his career, like Cameron, has been in politics.

He's never done a real job.

He's not been a farmer, he hasn't done anything.

Elin Jones, raising this one nation point,

listening carefully to the speech, it seems that in referring to this

one nation that he sometimes meant England and occasionally Britain.

He said Cameron made a pledge to the British people over the NHS. Not in Wales, not in Scotland.

Do you think the speech will play rather differently in Scotland

-and Wales to the way it plays in England?

-Yes, I think so.

And I think it causes a problem for the Labour Party in Wales

and in Scotland, as they try to act within the Welsh nation

and Scottish nation, especially in the context of the Labour Party

in Scotland ahead of the referendum on independence,

trying to show that Labour is a party for the Scottish nation.

So I think it causes a problem for Labour in the two countries.

And to all intensive purposes, it was a speech

for the English nation and so once again, mixes up between

the English nation and British nation, if there is such a thing.

-Does the party need rebranding here?

-No.

Miliband praised what is happening in Wales,

but we are seeing a number of weaknesses in England.

For example, with PFI,

the finance initiative to build schools and hospitals.

It hadn't really been used in Wales.

And of course, with the passing of time,

we have seen that we were right.

But Ed Balls still wants a PFI model to be used,

so there is a split between Balls and Miliband.

And that has been clear this week.

If he is going to carry the one nation flag, what is he going

to do when the unions and the union leaders in the public sector take

direct action and strike against the people in the private sector?

What is he going to do with the problem,

especially considering that the unions fund the Labour Party?

What happens when taxes are cut for people

that are millionaires in this country?

We're talking about carry a one nation flag

and I'm trying to explain where I see the problems he has.

Don't you think that Cameron is trying to carry the same flag?

he question for the Labour Party now and for the Welsh Labour Party

in particular is that if it is one nation, what is Wales?

A region?

Let me raise another point.

The style of the speech, Elin Jones,

did you believe that this man had the ability to make such a speech?

Do you think it has made people look at him afresh because of the style

and panache, if you like, something we weren't expecting from him.

Well, he has made an impression

because you have to praise someone who can stand up

and present an argument for an hour without a script.

I remember Ieuan Wyn Jones doing something similar

at a conference a few years ago.

I remember listening to that speech by Ieuan

and I was very nervous that it may all go wrong

and I'm sure members of the Labour Party were also nervous.

David Cameron has done it before. Will he be rewriting that speech?

And will he be slightly shocked considering the success

and reception?

Certainly, the speech has been warmly welcomed

and certainly people are shocked and certainly, as Elin said,

it is quite a feat to be able to stand up and talk for over an hour.

But the truth is that I think he has shown this talent,

it is a talent, too late.

He has now been leader for two and a half years.

Only one in five believe he has the talent to be prime minister.

And I fear that once people have reached that opinion,

it's extremely difficult to convince them otherwise.

You must also remember how many people take any notice

of such a speech when it is competing against such big news.

Thank you. How to expand your appeal to non-Welsh speakers.

One of the points being considered by a new group

looking at the future of the National Eisteddfod.

The minister with responsibility for the language,

Leighton Andrews, has told CF99

that the on-Maes experience for non-Welsh speakers is shameful.

He is promising more money from the Welsh Government if the festival modernises.

But what would be the implications of that? Aled ap Dafydd reports.

# We go from Eisteddfod to Eisteddfod, when will it all end? #

Well, not just yet, but the festival is in dire straits.

The deal on offer from the Welsh Government -

adapt and enrich the experience for Welsh speakers

and non-Welsh speakers with the promise of more public money.

The question is how much ground is the festival willing to give?

The minister currently responsible for funding the Eisteddfod

is not short of criticism.

I think that the experience for people visiting

the Eisteddfod for the first time is shameful, to be honest.

It is not clear what is happening in the tents

or on the Maes.

In a year's time, Leighton Andrews will consider the findings of a group

of 12 presenting recommendations on the modernisation of the festival.

The questions being considered are not new.

A permanent site north and south Wales?

Does it offer enough for people with non-Welsh backgrounds?

How can the Urdd and the Eisteddfod work more closely together?

And how to take advantage on other sources of finance.

This is this year's Eisteddfod site.

An empty field in Llandow in the Vale of Glamorgan.

Even the Eisteddfod weather has gone.

But ensuring the long-term future of the festival is proving difficult.

There are two sides competing against each other.

The Government, keen to influence the festival,

and the Eisteddfod-goers, who say let us take care of our own affairs.

One believes the establishment of the group is mischievous.

The danger is that we could have unintentional results

with an important festival as regards language

and culture being shrunk and heritage and the awareness

of the language in different parts of Wales being reduced.

And one other question I would like to ask is - I know the Welsh rule is not part of the remit,

but is that really why this task force was established in the first place?

The Government says that is not the aim.

But it's inevitable there will be changes.

The organisers acknowledge there is room for improvement.

Does the £17 ticket offer value for money?

Is the information available on the Maes sufficient?

Would Wales' local authorities be willing to fund the festival

if it moved to two permanent sites?

The organisers say more money

is needed to put their ideas into practice.

It depends how far the minister wants to go, as far as modernising.

Modern technology is available, but it costs money.

Of course, there is a possibility those costs will come down

and savings can be made to ensure that a contribution

is made from the Eisteddfod coffers towards that technology.

But certainly you are talking about an extra £100,000 as a minimum.

In the days of black and white television,

this was a week of culture for Welsh speakers.

It's now more than that. A mixture of the old and the new.

Loyal Eisteddfod-goers and fresh faced newcomers.

Feeding their enthusiasm will mean more visitors.

But at what cost to the festival's traditions?

Aled ap Dafydd.

Rod Richards, the experience for first time visitors is shameful,

says Leighton Andrews. Would you agree?

It depends on their experience

and what they expected from visiting the Eisteddfod in the first place.

And what exactly happened that disappointed them.

Without examples, it's hard to say.

Certainly, I've heard people with all kinds of complaints.

So reform is needed?

-Hmm?

-The festival needs to be changed?

Change is needed.

But I fear that with what is happening at the moment,

we have more heat than light, and we will hear the same old arguments.

What are we going to do?

Are we going to move round Wales every year?

I can see their problem because the truth is if you're going to have one

permanent site for the Eisteddfod, you will lose those people from the

local areas who visit the Eisteddfod because it is on their doorstep.

And that possibly... I don't have the figures,

but that could possibly mean that they receive less money

because only the hardcore would visit a permanent site.

One thing that surprises me

is that Leighton Andrews says the Eisteddfod must modernise and

must change, but the Eisteddfod has changed a great deal during my time.

There is a bar on the Maes. There are open air stages.

There are even plastic Gorsedd stones.

-The Eisteddfod is not some incredibly conservative body.

-No.

My experience of the Eisteddfod during the past ten years has

been transformed, especially with the sale of alcohol on the Maes.

We've seen the nature of the Eisteddfod change quite a bit.

And the impact of the Eisteddfod

on the local town or city being reduced.

So the argument over moving locations every year

has changed, since the nature of the Eisteddfod has changed to try

and keep people on the Maes, even late at night,

and so the economic impact on the wider area, I'd say, has reduced.

Should the government taskforce...

I'm sure no-one would disagree with the people on that taskforce,

they are noble people.

But should this taskforce appointed by the minister

be considering these matters rather than the Eisteddfod Authority?

The decisions will eventually have to be made by the Eisteddfod

because the Eisteddfod is a voluntary body, essentially,

and so it is owned by those people on the various committees.

That principle is important. But the debate will be quite interesting.

Although some of the arguments have been discussed many times,

but maybe it is important to discuss once again.

In expanding the appeal, Rhys, do we need to change the welcome offered to non-Welsh people?

Well, there is a difference between the Pavilion and the Maes.

Rod was saying about his Eisteddfod experience.

As someone who came from a non-Welsh speaking village,

I went to the Eisteddfod every year with my father.

My father loved being on the Maes.

It was a chance to speak Welsh for an entire week.

And Elin was talking about the years passing...

It was 20 years before I ventured into the Pavilion.

For me, the Eisteddfod was all about the Maes.

It wasn't the Pavilion. And I think that is the experience for many.

Do you agree with Angharad Mair in that piece?

Maybe the long-term aim is to reconsider the Welsh rule.

It's not something that this committee is considering.

And I think that the Eisteddfod is a Welsh festival.

What about bilingualism?

Letting the non-Welsh speakers know what is going on, where to go?

We need to be open and the Eisteddfod Maes needs to be there

for all Welsh people and whoever else wants to visit.

I think there is a question,

if you are not entirely familiar with the Eisteddfod Maes and what

happens in the various tents and the Pavilion, then you can get lost

and maybe not see exactly what is on offer on the Eisteddfod Maes.

There is a lot to see, but you need to know where you're going.

But the truth is, Rod Richards, there are more things to do

if you are a Welsh speaker.

There are all these society tents, the literary pavilion,

sometimes there is simultaneous translation, but often there is not.

Is it maybe time to think is one ticket for everything

the fair way to pay for this?

Maybe someone should have to pay more to visit Ymryson Y Beirdd

or to go into something that is not of interest to others?

That is a very good question.

But before you can answer that question, you must ask

another question, and that refers to something that Rhys mentioned.

Enjoying wandering the Maes, but not doing anything else.

What percentage of people go to the Eisteddfod

and merely wander the Maes, socialising and meeting people?

The head of Gwyl Y Gelli is on the panel. It's a successful festival.

It's free to enter but you pay for everything else that is going on.

I like the idea... I'm not sure if it was Rod's idea.

But a Maes ticket and then maybe a ticket for other things.

-Like it used to be.

-Well, there was a Pavilion ticket.

But everything else was free.

Elin, what needs to be done?

What would you be saying if you were on the panel?

Well, I think it's important to consider the question

of location and I think there are changes that can be made

regarding the economic impact as well as the impact

on the Welsh language on the areas the Eisteddfod visits.

There are different arguments to be addressed.

Rod Richards, one thing. One change?

We need to scrap the Gorsedd.

Controversial. Rhys, one change?

Well, I don't like to agree with Rod,

but I would get rid of all the frocks for the men

and the turn-ups showing under their pretty frocks.

They have a sword, remember!

As far as the funding, they must continue on half a million from here?

Well, it's important and it is promoting Welsh culture.

It is important to celebrate the language and we're doing that

in a fantastic way every year at the Eisteddfod, but that influence

on the language must continue, not just during that week,

-but all year round.

-Thank you for joining us.

And that's it. We'll be back at the same time next Wednesday.

The Conservatives will be in Birmingham for their annual conference.

We'll be concentrating on David Cameron.

I wonder whether he'll have any notes for his speech. Who knows!

-Until then, good night.

-Good night.