Browse content similar to 23/01/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Hello and welcome to CF99 live from Cardiff Bay. | 0:00:19 | 0:00:23 | |
On tonight's programme: | 0:00:23 | 0:00:25 | |
In or out? | 0:00:25 | 0:00:27 | |
That's the choice if David Cameron gets his referendum on Europe. | 0:00:27 | 0:00:31 | |
I think agriculture will lose out if we leave Europe. | 0:00:32 | 0:00:36 | |
A lot of money comes into Britain and agriculture from Europe. | 0:00:36 | 0:00:41 | |
The chaos over banks. | 0:00:41 | 0:00:43 | |
The parties compete to have their say on loans to small businesses. | 0:00:43 | 0:00:47 | |
I wouldn't say this is a conspiracy. | 0:00:47 | 0:00:50 | |
It's great to see three parties in Wales ready to do this. | 0:00:50 | 0:00:55 | |
Having battled through the snow to join us is Baroness Eluned Morgan, | 0:00:58 | 0:01:02 | |
the former Labour MEP. | 0:01:02 | 0:01:05 | |
The political commentator Gareth Hughes | 0:01:05 | 0:01:07 | |
and in our Westminster studio is the Conservative MP, Glyn Davies. | 0:01:07 | 0:01:12 | |
Welcome, bienvenue and willkommen to you three. | 0:01:12 | 0:01:15 | |
That brings us to David Cameron's big speech on the future | 0:01:17 | 0:01:20 | |
of Britain's relationship with the EU. | 0:01:20 | 0:01:22 | |
He promised there would be a referendum to decide | 0:01:22 | 0:01:24 | |
whether we should remain within the EU or not. | 0:01:24 | 0:01:27 | |
That only if the Tories win the next election | 0:01:27 | 0:01:30 | |
and after a period of consultation. | 0:01:30 | 0:01:32 | |
But what will influence the vote if there is one? | 0:01:32 | 0:01:37 | |
Aled ap Dafydd has been asking the public. | 0:01:37 | 0:01:39 | |
1975. | 0:01:45 | 0:01:47 | |
David Essex was at his height and the question was black and white. | 0:01:47 | 0:01:52 | |
In or out of the European Union? | 0:01:52 | 0:01:53 | |
Two thirds of us were in favour of sticking | 0:01:55 | 0:01:57 | |
with our Continental cousins. | 0:01:57 | 0:01:59 | |
But jump forward 40 years | 0:02:00 | 0:02:02 | |
and David Cameron is resurrecting the referendum. | 0:02:02 | 0:02:05 | |
This is the bargain. | 0:02:05 | 0:02:07 | |
The next Conservative manifesto in 2015, | 0:02:07 | 0:02:10 | |
will ask for a mandate from the British people | 0:02:10 | 0:02:13 | |
for a Conservative government to negotiate | 0:02:13 | 0:02:16 | |
a new settlement with our European partners in the next parliament. | 0:02:16 | 0:02:21 | |
It will be a relationship with the single market at its heart. | 0:02:21 | 0:02:25 | |
And when we have negotiated that new settlement we will give | 0:02:25 | 0:02:29 | |
the British people a referendum with a very simple in or out choice. | 0:02:29 | 0:02:35 | |
To those who follow the history of the European debate, | 0:02:35 | 0:02:38 | |
the hysteria which rears its head every now and then hides the facts. | 0:02:38 | 0:02:43 | |
Europe isn't the question but rather the Prime Minister's appeal. | 0:02:43 | 0:02:48 | |
One of the reasons why Europe has come back to the forefront recently | 0:02:48 | 0:02:52 | |
is that David Cameron's leadership of the Conservative party | 0:02:52 | 0:02:56 | |
is under scrutiny. | 0:02:56 | 0:02:58 | |
He has to respond to that. | 0:02:58 | 0:03:01 | |
So we have to interpret what's happened today in that context. | 0:03:01 | 0:03:06 | |
He is responding, not so much to the European question, | 0:03:06 | 0:03:10 | |
although he is doing that, but responding to those | 0:03:10 | 0:03:14 | |
within the Conservative party who are sceptical of his leadership. | 0:03:14 | 0:03:18 | |
On this farm in Carmarthenshire | 0:03:20 | 0:03:22 | |
there is a definite opinion on Europe. | 0:03:22 | 0:03:24 | |
Hello, Brian. How are you? | 0:03:24 | 0:03:27 | |
-Let's go and see the cattle. -Brilliant. | 0:03:27 | 0:03:30 | |
European aid worth an average £15,000 a year | 0:03:30 | 0:03:35 | |
to 16,000 farmers in Wales which keeps the agricultural industry | 0:03:35 | 0:03:38 | |
on its feet. | 0:03:38 | 0:03:41 | |
Brian Walters remembers the referendum in 1975 | 0:03:41 | 0:03:44 | |
and he voted in favour of Britain joining the European Union. | 0:03:44 | 0:03:48 | |
That opinion has not changed. | 0:03:48 | 0:03:51 | |
We would lose out in agriculture if we leave Europe. | 0:03:51 | 0:03:54 | |
A lot of money comes into Britain from Europe and into agriculture. | 0:03:55 | 0:03:59 | |
Maybe it isn't shared fairly | 0:03:59 | 0:04:01 | |
but money is coming in and that helps rural economy. | 0:04:01 | 0:04:05 | |
Emyr Owen wasn't even born in 1975. | 0:04:05 | 0:04:09 | |
But he has seen the free market interfering | 0:04:09 | 0:04:11 | |
in the growth of the family business. | 0:04:11 | 0:04:13 | |
The ability to do business with half a billion customers | 0:04:13 | 0:04:17 | |
is one of the common market's attributes | 0:04:17 | 0:04:19 | |
but for Owens Logistics haulage business | 0:04:19 | 0:04:22 | |
that is the biggest problem as well. | 0:04:22 | 0:04:24 | |
They spend £12 million a year on diesel and lose out on work | 0:04:24 | 0:04:28 | |
when lorries enter Britain full of cheaper diesel | 0:04:28 | 0:04:31 | |
and offer a better price for similar work. | 0:04:31 | 0:04:35 | |
The biggest problem we have is the competition | 0:04:35 | 0:04:38 | |
from over in Europe and the big companies that come over | 0:04:38 | 0:04:42 | |
and do all the work throughout the week and then go back to Europe | 0:04:42 | 0:04:46 | |
at the weekend. | 0:04:46 | 0:04:49 | |
The costs they pay are much less than what we have to pay. | 0:04:49 | 0:04:53 | |
David Cameron's hope is to re-nationalise powers | 0:04:53 | 0:04:57 | |
to make sure that the business world isn't obstructed by Europe. | 0:04:57 | 0:05:01 | |
But Carwyn Jones harshly criticised the speech. | 0:05:01 | 0:05:04 | |
When I go to other countries and look for investment | 0:05:06 | 0:05:10 | |
from those countries, they know that we are a member of European Union. | 0:05:10 | 0:05:14 | |
That's the market for them. The UK is too small, Wales is too small. | 0:05:14 | 0:05:18 | |
What they want to know is if there is a way into the European market | 0:05:18 | 0:05:23 | |
if we're in Wales. If that's not available they won't come here. | 0:05:23 | 0:05:27 | |
There were 14 months between the promise | 0:05:27 | 0:05:30 | |
and delivery of the referendum. It is quite a longer game this time. | 0:05:30 | 0:05:34 | |
Questions are yet to be answered. | 0:05:34 | 0:05:36 | |
In 1975, it was said that the debate would be settled once and for all. | 0:05:36 | 0:05:41 | |
But the campaigning is just about to start again. | 0:05:41 | 0:05:44 | |
I have never seen Margaret Thatcher in such a jumper! | 0:05:46 | 0:05:50 | |
Glyn Davies, back in October, | 0:05:50 | 0:05:53 | |
you said that a referendum in-or-out would be a huge mistake. | 0:05:53 | 0:05:58 | |
Have you changed your mind? | 0:05:58 | 0:06:00 | |
I think things have changed. | 0:06:00 | 0:06:03 | |
For the first time now, a British prime minister has said | 0:06:03 | 0:06:08 | |
if the British people will want to leave the European Union | 0:06:08 | 0:06:11 | |
he is ready to do that. | 0:06:11 | 0:06:14 | |
The problem for me before was | 0:06:14 | 0:06:15 | |
I did not believe that people were ready to leave. | 0:06:15 | 0:06:18 | |
If people want to leave, the Prime Minister will have to do that. | 0:06:18 | 0:06:24 | |
For the first time David Cameron has said he is ready to do that. | 0:06:24 | 0:06:27 | |
But isn't it strange that he says he will hold a referendum | 0:06:27 | 0:06:32 | |
and if he wins it he'll be in discussions | 0:06:32 | 0:06:35 | |
with other European Union members, | 0:06:35 | 0:06:38 | |
and then he says he will fight for staying in Europe. | 0:06:38 | 0:06:42 | |
What'll happen if the other European members aren't ready to do the deal? | 0:06:42 | 0:06:47 | |
Will he be campaigning for a no vote? | 0:06:47 | 0:06:49 | |
What David Cameron knows is that the relationship | 0:06:49 | 0:06:52 | |
between the European Union and the UK, | 0:06:52 | 0:06:56 | |
it is more fragile now than it has ever been. | 0:06:56 | 0:06:59 | |
He wants to renegotiate things, renegotiate the relationship. | 0:06:59 | 0:07:05 | |
After that, David Cameron thinks it is important | 0:07:05 | 0:07:08 | |
we remain in the European Union. | 0:07:08 | 0:07:10 | |
I am not sure myself which way I will vote yet. | 0:07:10 | 0:07:12 | |
I remember the last time, I was against. | 0:07:12 | 0:07:16 | |
I also remember when the campaign started in 1975 | 0:07:16 | 0:07:20 | |
the majority of people wanted to leave. | 0:07:20 | 0:07:23 | |
But when the vote came, the majority voted to remain in. | 0:07:23 | 0:07:27 | |
I expect the same thing this time. | 0:07:27 | 0:07:30 | |
If I can pick up on that with you, Gareth, | 0:07:31 | 0:07:34 | |
because you remember 1975 like me and Glyn but Eluned doesn't. | 0:07:34 | 0:07:38 | |
What Harold Wilson did was buy time. | 0:07:38 | 0:07:44 | |
He bought time before the referendum. | 0:07:44 | 0:07:46 | |
Groups like the CBI went out and warned about the dangers. | 0:07:46 | 0:07:51 | |
We're seeing the same thing again. Is it the same tactic? | 0:07:51 | 0:07:53 | |
I think that is one big difference between 1975 and now. | 0:07:53 | 0:07:58 | |
The fact is, there was a majority in the Labour Party back then | 0:07:58 | 0:08:03 | |
that wanted to stay in the Union | 0:08:03 | 0:08:05 | |
and the Conservative Party wanted to stay in. | 0:08:05 | 0:08:09 | |
The campaign wasn't very fair for those who wanted out. | 0:08:09 | 0:08:14 | |
I think that is the difference this time. | 0:08:14 | 0:08:17 | |
Half of the Conservative party want to leave. | 0:08:17 | 0:08:21 | |
Whatever the Cameron says, | 0:08:21 | 0:08:23 | |
there is strong element within the members who want to leave. | 0:08:23 | 0:08:29 | |
That makes a difference to the dynamics. | 0:08:29 | 0:08:32 | |
I think we have had two opinion polls that suggest | 0:08:32 | 0:08:35 | |
for the first time in years, | 0:08:35 | 0:08:37 | |
when the question was asked how would you vote in a referendum, | 0:08:37 | 0:08:40 | |
already there's a suggestion that remaining in the Union | 0:08:40 | 0:08:44 | |
is leading the way. | 0:08:44 | 0:08:45 | |
Yes, I think that will increase as the campaign goes on. | 0:08:45 | 0:08:49 | |
But what I think is very sobering from what was said today | 0:08:49 | 0:08:54 | |
is the fact that this uncertainty will effect on our economy. | 0:08:54 | 0:08:59 | |
Carwyn Jones is correct. | 0:08:59 | 0:09:01 | |
Who would want their headquarters in Wales or England or in Scotland | 0:09:01 | 0:09:05 | |
if they think there's any possibility | 0:09:05 | 0:09:08 | |
they won't be able to be in that free market. | 0:09:08 | 0:09:10 | |
Eluned, you also move in the business circles | 0:09:10 | 0:09:13 | |
as well as being a member of the Lords. | 0:09:13 | 0:09:15 | |
What are you hearing from business people? | 0:09:15 | 0:09:18 | |
As we heard from Mr Owens from Owens Logistics, | 0:09:18 | 0:09:21 | |
there are business people who aren't happy | 0:09:21 | 0:09:23 | |
with how Europe affects business. | 0:09:23 | 0:09:25 | |
There are. What people haven't heard | 0:09:25 | 0:09:28 | |
is this debate about the market. | 0:09:28 | 0:09:31 | |
This is the biggest market we have. This is where our exports go. | 0:09:31 | 0:09:36 | |
We export more to Ireland than we do to Russia, China and India combined. | 0:09:36 | 0:09:43 | |
The Eurosceptics within the Conservative Party like that market. | 0:09:43 | 0:09:47 | |
They will say, "that is what we were in favour of in 1975." | 0:09:47 | 0:09:51 | |
What they are not in favour of are these laws about health and safety, | 0:09:51 | 0:09:55 | |
workers' rights, this interference in matters | 0:09:55 | 0:09:59 | |
that should be British matters. | 0:09:59 | 0:10:00 | |
But what we have here is a club. There are rules in the club. | 0:10:00 | 0:10:05 | |
What you can't do if you join a club is choose which parts of the club | 0:10:05 | 0:10:08 | |
you want to be part of. | 0:10:08 | 0:10:10 | |
That is the problem here. | 0:10:10 | 0:10:12 | |
He has started a discussion now with a gun to the heads | 0:10:12 | 0:10:16 | |
of the people he wants to negotiate with within the EU. | 0:10:16 | 0:10:20 | |
He has said do what we want or we leave. | 0:10:20 | 0:10:23 | |
That isn't something that will attract people | 0:10:23 | 0:10:28 | |
in the Europe Union to his side. | 0:10:28 | 0:10:31 | |
Isn't there a debate, if he worded it differently, | 0:10:31 | 0:10:34 | |
some countries are within the Eurozone | 0:10:34 | 0:10:36 | |
and there are countries in the Union that aren't. | 0:10:36 | 0:10:38 | |
It makes sense for us to have a discussion at the different rules | 0:10:38 | 0:10:43 | |
for the two sets of countries rather than just exceptions for Britain. | 0:10:43 | 0:10:47 | |
I think everyone is quite happy to see improvements | 0:10:47 | 0:10:51 | |
in the way the European Union works. | 0:10:51 | 0:10:55 | |
What was interesting today | 0:10:55 | 0:10:57 | |
was the sort of thing he was talking about were very indistinct, | 0:10:57 | 0:11:00 | |
there was nothing concrete or definite | 0:11:00 | 0:11:02 | |
within what he was talking about. | 0:11:02 | 0:11:05 | |
I don't think that anyone would disagree | 0:11:05 | 0:11:08 | |
with the sort of things he was talking about. | 0:11:08 | 0:11:11 | |
But, the question is, would everyone else within the European Union | 0:11:11 | 0:11:16 | |
be happy for us to say, that part will benefit our economy. | 0:11:16 | 0:11:21 | |
We are competing with these countries | 0:11:21 | 0:11:24 | |
and they are not going to be happy to give parts | 0:11:24 | 0:11:28 | |
and give us more in order to compete better than them. | 0:11:28 | 0:11:32 | |
What will happen if Angela Merkel, whether France turned round | 0:11:32 | 0:11:37 | |
and said, look you are outside the Eurozone | 0:11:37 | 0:11:40 | |
we are happy to have different rules for those outside the eurozone, | 0:11:40 | 0:11:44 | |
but no special rules for Britain. | 0:11:44 | 0:11:48 | |
It is possible they will say that. | 0:11:48 | 0:11:50 | |
But we have to remember that every party within the Eurozone | 0:11:50 | 0:11:53 | |
will have to change their relationship with the EU | 0:11:53 | 0:11:57 | |
because it is going to... | 0:11:57 | 0:11:59 | |
..well, move closer to the Eurozone. | 0:11:59 | 0:12:03 | |
That happens to every other party. | 0:12:03 | 0:12:07 | |
If we do that, Britain has no problem with that. | 0:12:07 | 0:12:11 | |
I think Angela Merkel will in the end will be ready to see | 0:12:11 | 0:12:16 | |
the relationship changing. | 0:12:16 | 0:12:19 | |
Whether the change is enough for the British people to vote to remain, | 0:12:19 | 0:12:24 | |
we will have to see. | 0:12:24 | 0:12:28 | |
Another point is, Gareth says that more than half of Conservative MPs | 0:12:28 | 0:12:34 | |
want to leave Europe. I don't think that is true at all. | 0:12:34 | 0:12:38 | |
Half aren't happy with the relationship now. | 0:12:38 | 0:12:41 | |
They think the European Union is interfering in everything. | 0:12:41 | 0:12:46 | |
That is true. | 0:12:46 | 0:12:47 | |
But I don't think that 50 percent want out. | 0:12:47 | 0:12:51 | |
I don't think that will happen when the referendum comes. | 0:12:51 | 0:12:54 | |
But what you have to remember is we're not talking about one country | 0:12:54 | 0:12:58 | |
saying, yes you can have that deal. | 0:12:58 | 0:13:00 | |
Every one of the 26 countries has to agree on this. | 0:13:00 | 0:13:04 | |
I don't see that's possible in the next few years. | 0:13:04 | 0:13:08 | |
We are coming up to the question of uncertainty. | 0:13:08 | 0:13:11 | |
While this uncertainty continues nobody will be investing in Britain. | 0:13:11 | 0:13:15 | |
Let's discuss what Ed Miliband should do. | 0:13:15 | 0:13:18 | |
Ed Miliband has withstood the temptation to jump in before Cameron. | 0:13:18 | 0:13:23 | |
But will he have to say we have to have this vote? | 0:13:23 | 0:13:28 | |
We have to settle this matter once and for all. | 0:13:28 | 0:13:32 | |
In the long term, | 0:13:32 | 0:13:34 | |
I think if you change something completely, you will have to. | 0:13:34 | 0:13:38 | |
But I think the tactics of saying, | 0:13:38 | 0:13:41 | |
we want to change things and if we don't have our way we are leaving. | 0:13:41 | 0:13:45 | |
It's like a child saying if he can't have the ball, he is not playing. | 0:13:45 | 0:13:52 | |
It is an appalling tactic | 0:13:52 | 0:13:54 | |
if you are trying to have some kind of influence on the club. | 0:13:54 | 0:13:58 | |
I think that is wrong. | 0:13:58 | 0:14:00 | |
That is why Ed Miliband is going to be wise by saying, no, | 0:14:00 | 0:14:03 | |
we're not going to say that now. | 0:14:03 | 0:14:05 | |
We want changes but I am not going to threaten to leave the Union. | 0:14:05 | 0:14:10 | |
That's the correct tactic here. | 0:14:10 | 0:14:13 | |
Is the lesson here, if the UK just like many European countries | 0:14:13 | 0:14:17 | |
had held regular votes before treaties like Maastrich came in, | 0:14:17 | 0:14:21 | |
we would not be in this situation. | 0:14:21 | 0:14:24 | |
What has happened, our frustrations because people have seen other | 0:14:24 | 0:14:29 | |
countries like Ireland, Denmark and so one getting these referendums. | 0:14:29 | 0:14:34 | |
I don't think that makes sense. | 0:14:34 | 0:14:38 | |
What we have, the type of way we vote in this country | 0:14:38 | 0:14:45 | |
means that we elect leaders to make those decisions for us. | 0:14:45 | 0:14:49 | |
In the long term, if we know what we are voting for | 0:14:49 | 0:14:53 | |
maybe we will have to have a referendum. | 0:14:53 | 0:14:57 | |
It makes no sense to offer that at the moment | 0:14:57 | 0:15:00 | |
and to have this time of uncertainty. | 0:15:00 | 0:15:04 | |
Many thanks to you. | 0:15:04 | 0:15:05 | |
You know how it is, you wait a long time for an announcement | 0:15:05 | 0:15:08 | |
on help for small businesses and then three come all at once. | 0:15:08 | 0:15:12 | |
Yes, three announcements about making it easier for businesses | 0:15:14 | 0:15:18 | |
to borrow money within days of each other. | 0:15:18 | 0:15:20 | |
Coincidence or competition? | 0:15:20 | 0:15:23 | |
The government were out of the blocks first. | 0:15:23 | 0:15:26 | |
There will be reviewed chaired by a prominent Conservative member. | 0:15:26 | 0:15:30 | |
There are always stories about how difficult it is | 0:15:30 | 0:15:34 | |
for small businesses in Wales to have money | 0:15:34 | 0:15:37 | |
to develop and grow business. | 0:15:37 | 0:15:39 | |
But one of the things we don't have are facts. | 0:15:39 | 0:15:43 | |
Appointing Dylan Jones Evans has surprised some. | 0:15:43 | 0:15:47 | |
But there are no problems for his party, according to him. | 0:15:47 | 0:15:50 | |
The Welsh government has announced that this review will take place | 0:15:50 | 0:15:56 | |
but it will take about nine months before we will know | 0:15:56 | 0:16:01 | |
the conclusions of that report. | 0:16:01 | 0:16:05 | |
Small businesses want support now. | 0:16:05 | 0:16:08 | |
The Welsh Government has to act now. | 0:16:08 | 0:16:10 | |
At the beginning of the week the Conservatives launched | 0:16:10 | 0:16:13 | |
their idea, six regional banks to lend money to businesses. | 0:16:13 | 0:16:17 | |
At the same time Plaid Cymru were asking for a new bank, | 0:16:17 | 0:16:21 | |
a Welsh bank, to do similar work. | 0:16:21 | 0:16:24 | |
Who would have thought we wanted to annoy the Tories. | 0:16:24 | 0:16:27 | |
Our ideas come from work we have done over the last few months | 0:16:27 | 0:16:31 | |
and we are trying to perfect those ideas to have definite ideas | 0:16:31 | 0:16:37 | |
in place through our economic commission. | 0:16:37 | 0:16:39 | |
They had asked me this back in November to chair this review. | 0:16:39 | 0:16:45 | |
But as you understand, sometimes the civil service machine | 0:16:45 | 0:16:50 | |
moves very slow. | 0:16:50 | 0:16:55 | |
It is more of a cock up than a conspiracy, | 0:16:55 | 0:17:00 | |
the fact that in the same week we had the government coming out | 0:17:00 | 0:17:06 | |
with the announcement that we were having this review, | 0:17:06 | 0:17:10 | |
the Conservatives coming out with their West Wales policy. | 0:17:10 | 0:17:14 | |
That was supposed to be announced the week before. | 0:17:14 | 0:17:17 | |
Then, Plaid Cymru came back to say they came up with this in 2009. | 0:17:17 | 0:17:21 | |
There is something funny about all the parties competing. | 0:17:22 | 0:17:27 | |
This must a good thing that three parties | 0:17:27 | 0:17:31 | |
have seen there is a problem and tried to come out with ideas | 0:17:31 | 0:17:35 | |
to answer that problem. | 0:17:35 | 0:17:38 | |
I think everyone has recognised that there is a problem. | 0:17:38 | 0:17:42 | |
All the plans make sense. | 0:17:42 | 0:17:44 | |
Everyone acknowledges the problem exists. | 0:17:44 | 0:17:47 | |
We should try to work something out between us | 0:17:47 | 0:17:50 | |
and get the best deal for the situation. | 0:17:50 | 0:17:52 | |
It is also interesting that there are sources available | 0:17:52 | 0:17:56 | |
which are already available from the Welsh Government. | 0:17:56 | 0:18:00 | |
I think there are £70m available from different sources. | 0:18:00 | 0:18:06 | |
It is clear that that is there, but it has to work better. | 0:18:06 | 0:18:11 | |
It is not working as it should at the moment. | 0:18:11 | 0:18:17 | |
Andrew R T Davies said during Prime Minister's Questions, | 0:18:17 | 0:18:20 | |
this is our policy, we are giving it to you. | 0:18:20 | 0:18:23 | |
We are not rowing over this. They are just ideas | 0:18:23 | 0:18:26 | |
and we could reach a consensus on it, is that possible? | 0:18:26 | 0:18:30 | |
I'm not sure about that. | 0:18:30 | 0:18:32 | |
I haven't gone through the details, | 0:18:32 | 0:18:35 | |
but every party in the Assembly knows what the problem is. | 0:18:35 | 0:18:40 | |
Small businesses are not able to get funding | 0:18:40 | 0:18:44 | |
to invest in their businesses. | 0:18:44 | 0:18:47 | |
They are looking at new ideas. | 0:18:47 | 0:18:50 | |
If we can work together, | 0:18:50 | 0:18:53 | |
then we need to talk to the other parties to get a consensus. | 0:18:53 | 0:19:00 | |
If it is successful, then I would welcome that. | 0:19:00 | 0:19:04 | |
I do not mind which party has the ideas, | 0:19:04 | 0:19:09 | |
I just want it to work. | 0:19:09 | 0:19:12 | |
I'm not sure about consensus. | 0:19:12 | 0:19:15 | |
I don't think that they are right. | 0:19:15 | 0:19:18 | |
If the banks, who are making money out of investment | 0:19:18 | 0:19:22 | |
aren't giving money to small businesses, we have to ask why. | 0:19:22 | 0:19:26 | |
They don't think there's profit to be made from this. | 0:19:26 | 0:19:31 | |
Public money will be given to small businesses to keep them going. | 0:19:31 | 0:19:35 | |
That doesn't make sense. | 0:19:35 | 0:19:37 | |
The argument, as I understand it, is that the banks are not lending | 0:19:37 | 0:19:42 | |
because of the rules. | 0:19:42 | 0:19:47 | |
The reason they are not borrowing | 0:19:47 | 0:19:50 | |
is because they do not believe the economy will grow soon. | 0:19:50 | 0:19:55 | |
Without a growth in the economy, then this venture will fail. | 0:19:55 | 0:20:00 | |
Glyn, you wanted to say something. | 0:20:00 | 0:20:03 | |
Everyone would like to see the economy growing. | 0:20:03 | 0:20:07 | |
We know the problems that have faced the coalition since we came in. | 0:20:07 | 0:20:12 | |
It is very difficult and everyone are doing their best. | 0:20:12 | 0:20:15 | |
You cannot say the economy will grow, | 0:20:15 | 0:20:20 | |
we have to look at ideas which will work in the economy | 0:20:20 | 0:20:24 | |
as it is in Wales. | 0:20:24 | 0:20:25 | |
That is what every party is trying to do, and I welcome that. | 0:20:25 | 0:20:29 | |
Can you explain to Gareth what I tried to explain, | 0:20:29 | 0:20:32 | |
that it is not the business plans that are at fault? | 0:20:32 | 0:20:35 | |
The banks have been directed to balance their accounts. | 0:20:35 | 0:20:42 | |
They didn't have enough money when the recession came. | 0:20:42 | 0:20:46 | |
They're being encouraged to build-up their funds. | 0:20:46 | 0:20:50 | |
Until they get to the point where they are safe | 0:20:50 | 0:20:54 | |
and the Government is happy, | 0:20:54 | 0:20:57 | |
then you have the problem of contradictory lines | 0:20:57 | 0:21:00 | |
coming from the Government. | 0:21:00 | 0:21:05 | |
They gave money to the banks to lend, | 0:21:05 | 0:21:08 | |
but somehow that money isn't being lent? | 0:21:08 | 0:21:11 | |
It is not being lent for all kinds of reasons. | 0:21:11 | 0:21:15 | |
I think one reason is they don't believe the economy will grow. | 0:21:15 | 0:21:19 | |
When you have the situation where the economy is flat lining, then, | 0:21:19 | 0:21:27 | |
They haven't got any faith in these businesses. | 0:21:27 | 0:21:31 | |
I believe, you may be wasting public money with a scheme like this. | 0:21:31 | 0:21:36 | |
Glyn, in your constituency, | 0:21:36 | 0:21:39 | |
do you have businesses coming to you telling you they have plans, | 0:21:39 | 0:21:45 | |
but no-one is prepared to give them money? | 0:21:45 | 0:21:48 | |
You can see that in public life, this has been happening for years. | 0:21:48 | 0:21:53 | |
But that isn't more true so today | 0:21:53 | 0:21:58 | |
than ever before, but we have to see what happens. | 0:21:58 | 0:22:05 | |
Unemployment has gone down again today. | 0:22:05 | 0:22:09 | |
A lot of people can see that businesses are growing | 0:22:09 | 0:22:14 | |
and that is what is happening on the ground. | 0:22:14 | 0:22:21 | |
A lot of businesses get money, but we are trying to improve things. | 0:22:21 | 0:22:28 | |
Every party in the Assembly wants to improve the situation again. | 0:22:28 | 0:22:34 | |
Are we going to see a new Welsh Bank? | 0:22:34 | 0:22:38 | |
We will have to wait and see what this review comes up with. | 0:22:38 | 0:22:42 | |
I hope that we can reach a consensus, | 0:22:42 | 0:22:45 | |
because it seems every party wants to take action. | 0:22:45 | 0:22:49 | |
There is a responsibility on the Assembly. | 0:22:49 | 0:22:54 | |
The Welsh Assembly needs to invest and that is what is needed. | 0:22:54 | 0:22:59 | |
If we can help the private sector to grow, then that is the way forward. | 0:22:59 | 0:23:05 | |
There was a Welsh Bank, Julian Hodge established it. | 0:23:05 | 0:23:11 | |
That was very conservative when dealing with businesses. | 0:23:11 | 0:23:15 | |
You have to be careful that you don't establish a bank | 0:23:15 | 0:23:18 | |
and that it takes the same action as current banks. | 0:23:18 | 0:23:21 | |
It's going to look on the balance sheet | 0:23:21 | 0:23:24 | |
and say it's not sure whether to invest. | 0:23:24 | 0:23:27 | |
But banks that use public money will take a different stance? | 0:23:27 | 0:23:32 | |
I don't think so. They shouldn't. | 0:23:32 | 0:23:35 | |
If they're going to waste taxpayers' money, | 0:23:35 | 0:23:38 | |
then we are throwing money away. | 0:23:38 | 0:23:41 | |
As a voter, I wouldn't be very happy with that. | 0:23:41 | 0:23:47 | |
I thought you were from Bangor, not Ceredigion! | 0:23:47 | 0:23:53 | |
That is all for tonight. Thank you to our panel members. | 0:23:53 | 0:23:56 | |
I will be back at the same time next week. | 0:23:56 | 0:24:01 | |
For now, thank you for watching and good night. | 0:24:01 | 0:24:07 |