Browse content similar to 12/06/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
Good evening and welcome to CF99, | 0:00:20 | 0:00:22 | |
the postcode of the Assembly here in Cardiff Bay. | 0:00:22 | 0:00:25 | |
On tonight's programme - | 0:00:25 | 0:00:28 | |
Water, wind and sometimes sun, the obstructions to release | 0:00:28 | 0:00:31 | |
our natural resources. | 0:00:31 | 0:00:34 | |
There are companies and individuals telling us | 0:00:34 | 0:00:39 | |
that they feel that Wales isn't moving fast enough. | 0:00:39 | 0:00:44 | |
And is avoiding tax immoral? | 0:00:44 | 0:00:47 | |
David Cameron is calling on the G8 countries to act. | 0:00:47 | 0:00:52 | |
I am joined by Carol Bell, an expert on the energy industry, | 0:00:52 | 0:00:57 | |
Luned Jones from Oxfam Wales and the Labour MP for Anglesey, Albert Owen. | 0:00:57 | 0:01:02 | |
Welcome to you. Carwyn Jones has said that this is Wales' energy decade. | 0:01:02 | 0:01:07 | |
He thinks there is great potential here in Wales. | 0:01:07 | 0:01:11 | |
He says that there is potential to increase energy supply here | 0:01:11 | 0:01:14 | |
without damaging the environment. But what is the reality? | 0:01:14 | 0:01:18 | |
Over the last week, protests over windfarms and doubts | 0:01:18 | 0:01:23 | |
over the Severn windfarm project has shown that there is a long way to go | 0:01:23 | 0:01:27 | |
before that dream can be realised. | 0:01:27 | 0:01:31 | |
The Welsh economy has always been driven by its natural resources. | 0:01:46 | 0:01:50 | |
Mining the land and treating the land. | 0:01:50 | 0:01:53 | |
Aberdulais' waterfalls have been producing power since 1584 | 0:01:53 | 0:01:57 | |
for some of the largest industries in Wales. | 0:01:57 | 0:02:03 | |
At one time, | 0:02:05 | 0:02:08 | |
most of the industrialisation of the world was here in Wales. | 0:02:08 | 0:02:11 | |
Wales had a number of large ports at that time. | 0:02:11 | 0:02:15 | |
Wales and energy isn't anything new really. | 0:02:15 | 0:02:18 | |
What has happened is that the emphasis is on carbon, | 0:02:18 | 0:02:21 | |
prices are going up and we're struggling to find the elements. | 0:02:21 | 0:02:25 | |
We have to look at what is Wales | 0:02:25 | 0:02:26 | |
and its relationship with energy in the future. | 0:02:26 | 0:02:29 | |
This is a very different problem. | 0:02:29 | 0:02:32 | |
But the Welsh Government sees the challenges of the energy industry | 0:02:32 | 0:02:36 | |
as a chance than a problem because many believe that if Wales | 0:02:36 | 0:02:39 | |
took advantage of its natural resources, | 0:02:39 | 0:02:42 | |
then it could transform the economy. | 0:02:42 | 0:02:45 | |
But the question is are we making the most of the chances available? | 0:02:45 | 0:02:49 | |
No, we are not. | 0:02:49 | 0:02:51 | |
If you read the reports that we have produced as a committee | 0:02:51 | 0:02:56 | |
especially in the field of renewable energy and planning policies, | 0:02:56 | 0:03:00 | |
there are many companies that feel that Wales isn't moving fast enough | 0:03:00 | 0:03:08 | |
to get permission to invest in energy. | 0:03:08 | 0:03:16 | |
At present, many large renewable energy projects hang in the balance. | 0:03:16 | 0:03:20 | |
They have their supporters but some fiercely oppose. | 0:03:20 | 0:03:24 | |
This week, a project worth billions of pounds to build a barrage | 0:03:24 | 0:03:29 | |
across the Severn, was criticised by a parliamentary committee. | 0:03:29 | 0:03:32 | |
Last week, there were even further protests against wind turbines. | 0:03:32 | 0:03:36 | |
There are other ways that won't destroy the lives of people | 0:03:36 | 0:03:40 | |
living in the coutryside. | 0:03:40 | 0:03:42 | |
The development of a new power station on Angelsey | 0:03:42 | 0:03:46 | |
is far from being completed. | 0:03:46 | 0:03:48 | |
It's very hard to move forward with some of these schemes | 0:03:48 | 0:03:51 | |
because developers aren't too clear | 0:03:51 | 0:03:54 | |
as to where they can invest money to develop it. This is a problem. | 0:03:54 | 0:04:02 | |
The Government of Wales says they are working to develop the sector. | 0:04:02 | 0:04:06 | |
The First Minister chaired the first meeting | 0:04:06 | 0:04:09 | |
of the Welsh Energy Strategy Group this week. | 0:04:09 | 0:04:13 | |
Two years ago, Carwyn Jones said that he wanted to see | 0:04:13 | 0:04:17 | |
the green sector flourish in the next ten years. | 0:04:17 | 0:04:20 | |
But for some, there is a gap between the saying and the doing. | 0:04:20 | 0:04:24 | |
We have the expertise here in Wales. | 0:04:24 | 0:04:27 | |
If I work in England or Scotland, | 0:04:27 | 0:04:29 | |
it's often that people have been trained in Wales. | 0:04:29 | 0:04:33 | |
So, the people here need to know that the resources | 0:04:33 | 0:04:36 | |
are being used properly. | 0:04:36 | 0:04:42 | |
It is moving in the right direction but it will take time. | 0:04:42 | 0:04:48 | |
Perhaps that the potential is clear | 0:04:48 | 0:04:50 | |
but there are a number of obstacles to make the Government's dream | 0:04:50 | 0:04:54 | |
of releasing the potential and boost the economy. | 0:04:54 | 0:04:59 | |
Albert Owen, | 0:04:59 | 0:05:02 | |
we have all heard that Anglesey is considered an energy island. | 0:05:02 | 0:05:07 | |
There is a new scheme now in conjunction | 0:05:07 | 0:05:11 | |
with Aberystwyth and Bangor universities. | 0:05:11 | 0:05:15 | |
We have the nuclear power reactor, but when will people see jobs? | 0:05:15 | 0:05:19 | |
The jobs were created for the nuclear power station, | 0:05:19 | 0:05:23 | |
but the situation moves slowly. | 0:05:23 | 0:05:26 | |
There is a bill going through the Commons at the moment. | 0:05:26 | 0:05:29 | |
We need to put the framework in place to make sure people | 0:05:29 | 0:05:33 | |
have the opportunities to invest. | 0:05:33 | 0:05:36 | |
If we do not do this, | 0:05:36 | 0:05:39 | |
then we'll have to bring in energy from other places. | 0:05:39 | 0:05:43 | |
We have been moving forward quickly on wind energy. | 0:05:43 | 0:05:46 | |
But people oppose wind turbines on the land. | 0:05:46 | 0:05:49 | |
We need to start developing more out on the sea. | 0:05:49 | 0:05:55 | |
There are opportunities, and there will be good jobs available. | 0:05:55 | 0:06:01 | |
We have to make sure we have the right schemes in place. | 0:06:01 | 0:06:07 | |
Things need to be in place in Holyhead so that this can continue. | 0:06:07 | 0:06:12 | |
We can then create jobs and then link up with the universities | 0:06:12 | 0:06:15 | |
to make sure we have the right skills in place. | 0:06:15 | 0:06:19 | |
We have started on that work. | 0:06:19 | 0:06:22 | |
Local Government seems to be involved as well. | 0:06:22 | 0:06:25 | |
We need to cooperate across all levels to make sure | 0:06:25 | 0:06:30 | |
we have what we need in order to have a low carbon-emission economy. | 0:06:30 | 0:06:37 | |
Carol Bell, you travel the world with your work, | 0:06:37 | 0:06:40 | |
how does Government in Britain at all levels compare with other places? | 0:06:40 | 0:06:45 | |
Without a clear direction, | 0:06:45 | 0:06:48 | |
we seem to have opted for wind turbines | 0:06:48 | 0:06:53 | |
without having a clear scheme on it. | 0:06:53 | 0:06:59 | |
Unfortunately, that's an expensive way. | 0:06:59 | 0:07:06 | |
We shouldn't be creating energy in this way as it's expensive. | 0:07:06 | 0:07:09 | |
As customers, we could expect to pay more for our energy | 0:07:09 | 0:07:13 | |
and be less competitive than others. | 0:07:13 | 0:07:16 | |
What should we be doing? | 0:07:16 | 0:07:20 | |
It's difficult to bring up one option, | 0:07:20 | 0:07:24 | |
but any renewable energy from that depends on subsidies | 0:07:24 | 0:07:27 | |
will mean that we are just putting money in the pockets | 0:07:27 | 0:07:31 | |
of those behind the schemes. | 0:07:31 | 0:07:33 | |
That depends on having a subsidy | 0:07:33 | 0:07:34 | |
in the sense that it has a guaranteed price. | 0:07:34 | 0:07:39 | |
Yes, but that's completely different. | 0:07:39 | 0:07:42 | |
The technology has been proven when it comes to other things. | 0:07:42 | 0:07:48 | |
It's terrible that we have not started early enough | 0:07:48 | 0:07:53 | |
when it comes to investing in nuclear power. | 0:07:53 | 0:07:58 | |
We have to rely on gas and on coal as well, to some extent. | 0:07:58 | 0:08:03 | |
This has to continue until nuclear power is stable. | 0:08:03 | 0:08:10 | |
Luned, you are involved with those countries | 0:08:10 | 0:08:15 | |
who may be paying most when it comes to climate change. | 0:08:15 | 0:08:21 | |
We know that climate change affects the lives of millions | 0:08:21 | 0:08:25 | |
of people around the world. | 0:08:25 | 0:08:28 | |
It affects how they can grow crops and flooding and so on. | 0:08:28 | 0:08:32 | |
We have a responsibility even as a small nation to ensure | 0:08:32 | 0:08:37 | |
that we meet the carbon emission targets | 0:08:37 | 0:08:40 | |
and cut down greenhouse gases. | 0:08:40 | 0:08:43 | |
We need to look at upgrading our houses. | 0:08:43 | 0:08:49 | |
They have to be much more fuel efficient. | 0:08:49 | 0:08:55 | |
We have a lot of work to do. | 0:08:56 | 0:09:00 | |
We also need to look at the other perspective of fuel poverty. | 0:09:00 | 0:09:05 | |
We know that a number of Welsh homes are suffering from this. | 0:09:05 | 0:09:09 | |
Research has been carried out which could mean that jobs | 0:09:09 | 0:09:12 | |
could be created while we deal with these problems. | 0:09:12 | 0:09:18 | |
Albert, can those types of jobs make up for those other jobs? | 0:09:18 | 0:09:21 | |
A number of jobs have disappeared because of the cost. | 0:09:21 | 0:09:24 | |
One example is the aluminium industry which has disappeared | 0:09:24 | 0:09:29 | |
not only from Anglesey, but from Britain. | 0:09:29 | 0:09:31 | |
But there are new technologies and we have to move forward. | 0:09:31 | 0:09:37 | |
I agree we have concentrated too much on wind turbines on land, | 0:09:37 | 0:09:41 | |
but many understand that we have to move into a low-carbon economy. | 0:09:41 | 0:09:47 | |
We need to move on with the various options. | 0:09:47 | 0:09:52 | |
We must have research and development as well. | 0:09:52 | 0:09:55 | |
That is crucial. | 0:09:55 | 0:09:57 | |
We can then create jobs which are of a high quality. | 0:09:57 | 0:10:02 | |
The whole British economy has to move forward. | 0:10:02 | 0:10:05 | |
There is a great potential to move forward with this idea. | 0:10:05 | 0:10:10 | |
Seimens have moved from Germany to Britain | 0:10:10 | 0:10:14 | |
because they see the potential of this. | 0:10:14 | 0:10:18 | |
We have to co-operate with large companies | 0:10:18 | 0:10:22 | |
but also get the infrastructure in place. | 0:10:22 | 0:10:29 | |
Carole, you were responsible for the term "Ffracio" in Welsh. | 0:10:29 | 0:10:35 | |
With two "f". | 0:10:36 | 0:10:38 | |
Fracking is a controversial technology to get gas | 0:10:38 | 0:10:43 | |
out from the ground. | 0:10:43 | 0:10:45 | |
It has made a big difference in the United States. | 0:10:45 | 0:10:50 | |
Can you see it coming over here? | 0:10:50 | 0:10:55 | |
We do have potential here in Wales and in parts of England as well, | 0:10:55 | 0:11:00 | |
but the problem is they have done a lot of this in America | 0:11:00 | 0:11:06 | |
in areas which are sparsely populated, but in Britain, | 0:11:06 | 0:11:12 | |
we all live on top of each other, and there isn't much room | 0:11:12 | 0:11:19 | |
to talk all the noise and the problems when the hole is dug. | 0:11:19 | 0:11:23 | |
You are going to have a lot of problems when the drilling takes place. | 0:11:23 | 0:11:27 | |
It has had an effect already. | 0:11:27 | 0:11:31 | |
The price of coal has decreased, | 0:11:31 | 0:11:34 | |
and renewable energy appears to be much more expensive as a result. | 0:11:34 | 0:11:38 | |
That's what has happened. | 0:11:38 | 0:11:40 | |
What has happened with the price of gas falling | 0:11:40 | 0:11:45 | |
to one fifth of what it was worth here in the UK, | 0:11:46 | 0:11:52 | |
is that they've taken coal from the industry in America, | 0:11:53 | 0:11:59 | |
and bringing it over to us. | 0:11:59 | 0:12:06 | |
These low prices in America will affect us. | 0:12:06 | 0:12:14 | |
We, as a small nation can't think that low prices won't affect us. | 0:12:14 | 0:12:21 | |
Any government has to weigh up all these things - | 0:12:21 | 0:12:25 | |
the long-term plans and the short-term plans as well. | 0:12:25 | 0:12:28 | |
We can see that prices are increasing when it comes to energy, | 0:12:33 | 0:12:37 | |
but we also see that income isn't going up to match it. | 0:12:37 | 0:12:40 | |
People then see that the energy bills are becoming more expensive. | 0:12:40 | 0:12:46 | |
It is pushing more people into fuel poverty. | 0:12:46 | 0:12:52 | |
Where is the balance between the short-term - | 0:12:52 | 0:12:58 | |
the pressure that customers are under and the long-term aspect? | 0:12:58 | 0:13:04 | |
We have to invest in new technology now. | 0:13:04 | 0:13:08 | |
If we do not do this and have a dash for gas as in the 70s, | 0:13:08 | 0:13:13 | |
then we will have a situation returning as we have seen before. | 0:13:13 | 0:13:19 | |
The commodity prices will increase. That is the big thing. | 0:13:19 | 0:13:26 | |
We have to be very careful when we talk about making up the prices. | 0:13:26 | 0:13:31 | |
Wales is an excellent country to do this. | 0:13:31 | 0:13:35 | |
I'm glad that the Assembly has moved forward on this. | 0:13:35 | 0:13:39 | |
They need to work with the British Government to make sure | 0:13:39 | 0:13:43 | |
they have the right policies and plans in place to move forward. | 0:13:43 | 0:13:48 | |
When it became clear that some large companies | 0:13:48 | 0:13:52 | |
were paying little tax in Britain, | 0:13:52 | 0:13:55 | |
a heated public debate kicked off about the fairness of the system. | 0:13:55 | 0:13:59 | |
Next week, David Cameron will try to encourage G8 leaders | 0:13:59 | 0:14:03 | |
to act at an international level to ensure companies contribute fairly. | 0:14:03 | 0:14:08 | |
This is the debate according to one of tonight's guests. | 0:14:08 | 0:14:14 | |
Taxes have become a political debate recently | 0:14:26 | 0:14:30 | |
following attention given to Starbucks and Google. | 0:14:30 | 0:14:34 | |
MPs are now discussing the morality of the practises | 0:14:34 | 0:14:38 | |
that have been going on from some large companies. | 0:14:38 | 0:14:41 | |
Leaders from the G8 countries will be meeting in Northern Ireland | 0:14:43 | 0:14:48 | |
next week. | 0:14:48 | 0:14:50 | |
David Cameron has said that tax avoidance | 0:14:50 | 0:14:54 | |
will be central to those talks. | 0:14:54 | 0:14:56 | |
It is a big issue in Britain, | 0:15:01 | 0:15:03 | |
but it's even more important when it comes to poorer countries. | 0:15:03 | 0:15:07 | |
We estimate that poorer countries are losing 160 billions a year | 0:15:11 | 0:15:17 | |
through tax avoidance. | 0:15:17 | 0:15:20 | |
The system is allowing the poorest countries to remain poor | 0:15:20 | 0:15:26 | |
without doctors, teachers or nurses. | 0:15:26 | 0:15:29 | |
The G8 needs to secure that every tax haven shares information | 0:15:34 | 0:15:38 | |
and so that there is no place to hide. | 0:15:38 | 0:15:43 | |
At last, tax evasion is at the top of the agenda. | 0:15:43 | 0:15:49 | |
It's up to David Cameron to lead and act according to his word. | 0:15:49 | 0:15:55 | |
-That was very good! But is it easier said than done? -For who? | 0:15:55 | 0:16:01 | |
It isn't easy, but there are ways, clever ways, | 0:16:01 | 0:16:08 | |
where the large companies can get advice on how to avoid paying tax. | 0:16:08 | 0:16:15 | |
We need to act. | 0:16:15 | 0:16:20 | |
The world is in agreement that something has to be done | 0:16:20 | 0:16:24 | |
to ensure that it is a level playing field for everyone. | 0:16:24 | 0:16:29 | |
There is no way of carrying on with this process. | 0:16:29 | 0:16:33 | |
But you can't do that without a global tax set in Government? | 0:16:33 | 0:16:39 | |
The talks next week will see | 0:16:39 | 0:16:45 | |
the richest world leaders around the same table. | 0:16:45 | 0:16:49 | |
They need to show goodwill to try and solve this problem. | 0:16:49 | 0:16:53 | |
There are people in this country suffering as a result. | 0:16:53 | 0:16:57 | |
We're losing money from our public purse. | 0:16:57 | 0:17:00 | |
We don't have the problems people have in the poorest countries. | 0:17:00 | 0:17:06 | |
I think what's worrying is that about a year ago, | 0:17:06 | 0:17:10 | |
we didn't have any idea that these large companies were doing this. | 0:17:10 | 0:17:15 | |
We have to be careful about words. | 0:17:15 | 0:17:20 | |
They are using legal systems that were in place in order to avoid tax. | 0:17:20 | 0:17:27 | |
Well, clever or sly. | 0:17:27 | 0:17:32 | |
-But if it is there, as a business person. -They were using them! | 0:17:32 | 0:17:38 | |
-It isn't just a question of morality. -They are paying less tax! | 0:17:38 | 0:17:43 | |
I believe some of the leaders are in agreement | 0:17:43 | 0:17:49 | |
that they'll have to do what needs to be done. | 0:17:49 | 0:17:54 | |
It's normal that people are angry. | 0:17:54 | 0:17:58 | |
We've heard about these different companies, | 0:17:58 | 0:18:03 | |
but in truth, isn't it their responsibility | 0:18:03 | 0:18:06 | |
of a manager to do what he can do? | 0:18:06 | 0:18:11 | |
As long as it is within the law. | 0:18:11 | 0:18:16 | |
What we have seen here is that the business world is global | 0:18:16 | 0:18:22 | |
and the tax system has not followed in the same way. | 0:18:22 | 0:18:29 | |
Nobody could have seen this. | 0:18:29 | 0:18:34 | |
Looking back at my own career, I would not have thought | 0:18:34 | 0:18:38 | |
that things would have developed to such a global scale | 0:18:38 | 0:18:42 | |
as they have done. | 0:18:42 | 0:18:47 | |
To think about coffee shops which are global | 0:18:47 | 0:18:50 | |
and can use these rules legally, I wouldn't have predicted this. | 0:18:50 | 0:18:54 | |
David Cameron can make a difference here next week. | 0:18:54 | 0:18:59 | |
They need to get the relevant authorities to talk with the bodies | 0:18:59 | 0:19:02 | |
in other countries in order to make sure that everything is transparent. | 0:19:02 | 0:19:09 | |
We need to know what the profits are and where the taxes are paid. | 0:19:09 | 0:19:17 | |
That will be a big help. But think of Europe. | 0:19:17 | 0:19:24 | |
There was a great opportunity when the European countries | 0:19:24 | 0:19:31 | |
came together to sort out the taxes, but that was a failure. | 0:19:31 | 0:19:37 | |
Once more, it is almost inevitable that countries will try to get | 0:19:40 | 0:19:47 | |
a competitive advantage by cutting corporate tax. | 0:19:47 | 0:19:52 | |
Ireland is almost boasting that its taxes are so low. | 0:19:55 | 0:19:59 | |
Britain wants a part of that. | 0:19:59 | 0:20:04 | |
But Vodafone isn't paying corporation tax at all, | 0:20:04 | 0:20:09 | |
and they are competing against British companies which are paying. | 0:20:09 | 0:20:13 | |
Starbucks have cafes on the high street in Britain, | 0:20:13 | 0:20:17 | |
and they are competing against home-grown businesses | 0:20:17 | 0:20:21 | |
which have to pay tax here. | 0:20:21 | 0:20:25 | |
I think we have to tackle this with leaders of the G8. | 0:20:25 | 0:20:29 | |
But it is also up to people like us to choose where we buy our products. | 0:20:29 | 0:20:36 | |
That is a way we can protest against these companies. | 0:20:36 | 0:20:42 | |
We have to draw attention to the fact that some companies | 0:20:42 | 0:20:47 | |
aren't paying corporation tax. | 0:20:47 | 0:20:49 | |
We could buy from British companies who have to pay | 0:20:49 | 0:20:52 | |
these corporation taxes. | 0:20:52 | 0:20:55 | |
It is important that David Cameron leads on this issue. | 0:20:55 | 0:21:02 | |
Blair and Brown highlighted the problems in Africa | 0:21:02 | 0:21:08 | |
when we had summits here in the past. | 0:21:08 | 0:21:13 | |
This is a chance for David Cameron | 0:21:13 | 0:21:16 | |
to get his voice heard internationally. | 0:21:16 | 0:21:20 | |
We have to do this as MPs here in Britain | 0:21:20 | 0:21:22 | |
It is not enough just to tackle this on a British level. | 0:21:22 | 0:21:28 | |
It has to be done globally. | 0:21:28 | 0:21:31 | |
We have seen examples today of Google investing a lot of money | 0:21:31 | 0:21:38 | |
on tackling the issue of images of child abuse appearing online. | 0:21:38 | 0:21:43 | |
This was done after David Cameron asked them to do so. | 0:21:43 | 0:21:47 | |
There is a way of appealing to a company to act on an issue. | 0:21:47 | 0:21:53 | |
It's not just a question of conscience. | 0:21:53 | 0:21:56 | |
It is a question of transparency. We have to have transparency. | 0:21:56 | 0:22:02 | |
We have to see where they pay their taxes. | 0:22:02 | 0:22:07 | |
This is not transparent at the moment. | 0:22:07 | 0:22:09 | |
We also need agreement between different bodies. | 0:22:09 | 0:22:14 | |
You have a number of different bodies at different levels. | 0:22:14 | 0:22:18 | |
It is difficult to get agreement across all of these. | 0:22:18 | 0:22:24 | |
We have to make sure that the politicians and people responsible | 0:22:24 | 0:22:31 | |
for collecting taxes talk to each other on an international basis. | 0:22:31 | 0:22:37 | |
Albert, you talked about boycotting and protesting. | 0:22:39 | 0:22:45 | |
We have seen some protests outside Starbucks, | 0:22:45 | 0:22:50 | |
but there is no suggestion yet that a firm such as Amazon | 0:22:50 | 0:22:54 | |
will be quaking in their boots | 0:22:54 | 0:22:58 | |
because people like to use the service. | 0:22:58 | 0:23:02 | |
When Starbucks was named, it has had an effect. | 0:23:02 | 0:23:08 | |
Their profit has decreased in the past six months. | 0:23:08 | 0:23:13 | |
The leaders going to Northern Ireland will have to work together. | 0:23:13 | 0:23:20 | |
As a charity, you cannot organise boycotts, | 0:23:20 | 0:23:27 | |
but would you like to see action being taken? | 0:23:28 | 0:23:32 | |
We would like to see action taking place. | 0:23:32 | 0:23:35 | |
People are very angry about this. | 0:23:35 | 0:23:39 | |
We can see that budgets are being affected in the richer countries, | 0:23:42 | 0:23:47 | |
and the situation is even worse with poorer countries. | 0:23:47 | 0:23:50 | |
We need to get that money back to them. | 0:23:50 | 0:23:55 | |
Thank you very much. We'll be back at the usual time of 9.30 next week. | 0:23:55 | 0:23:58 | |
Among other thing, we'll be asking if we have too many councils | 0:23:58 | 0:24:02 | |
and councillors. | 0:24:02 | 0:24:06 | |
Join us next week. Until then, goodbye. | 0:24:06 | 0:24:10 |