Browse content similar to 19/06/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Good evening and welcome to CF99 from Cardiff Bay. | 0:00:01 | 0:00:04 | |
On tonight's programme: | 0:00:04 | 0:00:06 | |
They collect bins, repair roads and schools and much more, | 0:00:06 | 0:00:09 | |
but is it time to cut the number of councils in Wales? | 0:00:09 | 0:00:14 | |
The world is changing and we need to be prepared | 0:00:14 | 0:00:17 | |
to move with it and we need to be ready to lead that that change. | 0:00:17 | 0:00:21 | |
And do council chambers adequately reflect our society? | 0:00:21 | 0:00:27 | |
Joining me tonight are three experts on local government | 0:00:27 | 0:00:33 | |
Assembly Member and former Wrexham Council leader, Aled Roberts. | 0:00:33 | 0:00:37 | |
Labour Cabinet member from Cardiff Council, Huw Thomas | 0:00:37 | 0:00:41 | |
and Ceredigion Council leader, Ellen ap Gwynn from Plaid Cymru. | 0:00:41 | 0:00:44 | |
Welcome. | 0:00:44 | 0:00:46 | |
It hasn't been a good year for local government leaders in Wales. | 0:00:46 | 0:00:50 | |
Tomorrow, at a summit in Cardiff | 0:00:50 | 0:00:52 | |
they will have an opportunity to commiserate | 0:00:52 | 0:00:55 | |
after months of cuts to services and criticism over pay rises. | 0:00:55 | 0:00:58 | |
At the top of the agenda will be restructuring | 0:00:58 | 0:01:02 | |
and cutting the number of councils. | 0:01:02 | 0:01:05 | |
One academic has told CF99 | 0:01:05 | 0:01:07 | |
that it would be a mistake to make drastic changes. | 0:01:07 | 0:01:11 | |
Here's Aled ap Dafydd. | 0:01:11 | 0:01:13 | |
This is the Llanofer building that opened opened in 2012. | 0:01:13 | 0:01:21 | |
One school servicing four local authorities. | 0:01:21 | 0:01:25 | |
For six years, pupils from Torfaen, Newport, Monmouth | 0:01:25 | 0:01:30 | |
and Blaenau Gwent all receive their education Ysgol Gyfun Gwynllyw. | 0:01:30 | 0:01:34 | |
The headteacher, Ellis Griffiths, has seen almost £15m | 0:01:34 | 0:01:38 | |
spent on this school in the last year. | 0:01:38 | 0:01:41 | |
It was extended to include a new building and new equipment. | 0:01:41 | 0:01:48 | |
I think it is important the local authorities co-operate | 0:01:48 | 0:01:52 | |
in order to create facilities of this standard. | 0:01:52 | 0:01:56 | |
We need investment and we also need co-operation | 0:01:56 | 0:02:00 | |
with scarce resources so I think this is the way forward. | 0:02:00 | 0:02:04 | |
I think the smaller local authorities have suffered | 0:02:04 | 0:02:09 | |
in terms of investment in the past. | 0:02:09 | 0:02:12 | |
The way forward is for them to work together with other authorities. | 0:02:12 | 0:02:16 | |
In 2006, the Beecham report said more co-operation | 0:02:16 | 0:02:20 | |
was needed between local authorities in Wales. | 0:02:20 | 0:02:25 | |
The warning was if that hadn't happened by 2011 | 0:02:25 | 0:02:30 | |
then the number of local authorities should be cut. | 0:02:30 | 0:02:34 | |
Two years after that deadline, the question is whether | 0:02:34 | 0:02:38 | |
that message has reached council chambers across Wales? | 0:02:38 | 0:02:42 | |
Professor Steve Martin took out the research work for the report. | 0:02:42 | 0:02:48 | |
He warns against any far-reaching changes. | 0:02:48 | 0:02:53 | |
I would be in favour of looking at some of the smallest authorities | 0:02:53 | 0:02:58 | |
to see whether if we can amalgamate them with larger authorities. | 0:02:58 | 0:03:02 | |
But I would be reticent over a wholesale reorganisation | 0:03:02 | 0:03:06 | |
of local government for two reasons. | 0:03:06 | 0:03:09 | |
It is impossible to get the optimum size | 0:03:09 | 0:03:12 | |
for a local council because it depends | 0:03:12 | 0:03:15 | |
which service you are looking at. | 0:03:15 | 0:03:17 | |
Some are best delivered by bigger authorities | 0:03:17 | 0:03:20 | |
and some by small authorities and some in between. | 0:03:20 | 0:03:23 | |
The process of reorganisation itself is a huge distraction. | 0:03:23 | 0:03:27 | |
Running our local authorities is a challenging task | 0:03:27 | 0:03:30 | |
in the economic climate. | 0:03:30 | 0:03:33 | |
They spend £5.7 billion between them. | 0:03:33 | 0:03:37 | |
In the last five years, there has been a cut of 8.4% in their budget. | 0:03:37 | 0:03:43 | |
For some, local government is a world of gluttony. | 0:03:43 | 0:03:48 | |
Too many executives on high wages. | 0:03:48 | 0:03:50 | |
In Caerphilly, council workers were angry after the Chief Executive | 0:03:50 | 0:03:54 | |
received a pay increase that was ruled illegal. | 0:03:54 | 0:03:58 | |
£140 million needs to be saved, | 0:03:58 | 0:04:01 | |
but some people are still receiving pay rises. | 0:04:01 | 0:04:06 | |
The question is what is the service quality? | 0:04:06 | 0:04:10 | |
What do people get for their money? | 0:04:10 | 0:04:12 | |
What kind of services are they offering? | 0:04:12 | 0:04:15 | |
That's the conversation that needs to be had on the streets | 0:04:15 | 0:04:18 | |
rather than levels of pay. | 0:04:18 | 0:04:22 | |
I think people care about what they receive | 0:04:22 | 0:04:25 | |
in return from their council services. | 0:04:25 | 0:04:28 | |
Tomorrow is the Wales Local Government meeting. | 0:04:28 | 0:04:32 | |
Everyone will merge to unite. | 0:04:32 | 0:04:36 | |
Many people will also know that a shake-up could mean empty seats. | 0:04:36 | 0:04:41 | |
The axe is likely to fall, but who knows how.. | 0:04:41 | 0:04:47 | |
Aled ap Dafydd reporting. | 0:04:47 | 0:04:50 | |
There is some kind of consensus that the shake-up | 0:04:50 | 0:04:53 | |
that took place in the 1990s has not produced the ideal system. | 0:04:53 | 0:04:59 | |
There is also a consensus that a shake-up at a time of cuts | 0:04:59 | 0:05:03 | |
would be extremely difficult. | 0:05:03 | 0:05:06 | |
The Government says the answer is co-operation, | 0:05:06 | 0:05:10 | |
but is that happening? The Education Minister says it isn't. | 0:05:10 | 0:05:14 | |
I know it is happening in Ceredigion. | 0:05:14 | 0:05:18 | |
We have two schemes in place where we are working closely | 0:05:18 | 0:05:23 | |
with Powys Council on food waste for instance. | 0:05:23 | 0:05:27 | |
We have the Quick scheme which means that we are sharing officials | 0:05:27 | 0:05:33 | |
when it comes to building work. | 0:05:33 | 0:05:35 | |
It's important because it keeps these professional jobs in the area | 0:05:35 | 0:05:39 | |
and I think when we talk about a shake-up | 0:05:39 | 0:05:42 | |
that we need to remember that we are talking | 0:05:42 | 0:05:45 | |
about a massive geographical area in the centre of Wales | 0:05:45 | 0:05:49 | |
that is in danger of being forgotten unless we are careful | 0:05:49 | 0:05:57 | |
We will come to boundaries and constituencies in a moment. | 0:05:57 | 0:06:03 | |
In terms of co-operation especially in education, | 0:06:03 | 0:06:07 | |
it seems the minister is feeling very frustrated. | 0:06:07 | 0:06:11 | |
He's saying the consortium isn't working | 0:06:11 | 0:06:15 | |
and some are worse than others. | 0:06:15 | 0:06:17 | |
It appears that he is feeling that way. | 0:06:17 | 0:06:20 | |
I'm happy that it is working in my area. | 0:06:20 | 0:06:25 | |
It has in terms of the consortium. | 0:06:25 | 0:06:28 | |
In the South East, we formed three hubs. | 0:06:28 | 0:06:32 | |
Ceredigion and Powys are co-operating | 0:06:32 | 0:06:34 | |
with Carmarthenshire and Pembrokeshire | 0:06:34 | 0:06:37 | |
and Swansea and Neath Port Talbot are co-operating | 0:06:37 | 0:06:40 | |
and we are improving education through that consortium. | 0:06:40 | 0:06:44 | |
It is in terms of the improvement in standards, | 0:06:44 | 0:06:47 | |
that's what we think is really important. | 0:06:47 | 0:06:50 | |
It is important that that we provide good education. | 0:06:50 | 0:06:55 | |
What has gone wrong with these consortia? | 0:06:55 | 0:06:58 | |
I was listening to the question session here earlier this week. | 0:06:58 | 0:07:02 | |
Leighton Andrews said that he's lost patience with this consortia. | 0:07:02 | 0:07:08 | |
He said that he had lost his patience. What has happened? | 0:07:08 | 0:07:13 | |
I don't feel as though the Government leadership | 0:07:13 | 0:07:17 | |
was strong enough in the first place. | 0:07:17 | 0:07:20 | |
He decided it was possible for different models to be formed | 0:07:20 | 0:07:25 | |
between the four consortia. And also as a result of that, | 0:07:25 | 0:07:28 | |
there was no agreement between the different councils. | 0:07:28 | 0:07:31 | |
I think the minister is frustrated | 0:07:31 | 0:07:35 | |
because certainly in North Wales, | 0:07:35 | 0:07:40 | |
the consortia won't be ready by September. | 0:07:40 | 0:07:44 | |
Does that mean that you as Assembly members | 0:07:44 | 0:07:48 | |
will have to say, "This isn't an ideal time for a shake-up." | 0:07:48 | 0:07:55 | |
There isn't an ideal time for a shake-up, | 0:07:55 | 0:07:58 | |
but we have to do something about these small councils | 0:07:58 | 0:08:02 | |
for example Merthyr Council. | 0:08:02 | 0:08:04 | |
A commission has been formed by the First Minister | 0:08:04 | 0:08:09 | |
and we need to wait and see what that cross party commission decides. | 0:08:09 | 0:08:15 | |
I also think that we have a tendency in Wales | 0:08:15 | 0:08:19 | |
to always restructure things rather than to get to grips | 0:08:19 | 0:08:23 | |
with problems concerning the quality of services | 0:08:23 | 0:08:27 | |
rather than just the infrastructure. | 0:08:27 | 0:08:31 | |
Huw Thomas, you are part of one of the largest councils in Wales | 0:08:31 | 0:08:35 | |
in terms of the number of people it services. | 0:08:35 | 0:08:38 | |
When you look at councils like Merthyr with 60,000 people, | 0:08:38 | 0:08:44 | |
there aren't many more living in Blaenau Gwent. | 0:08:44 | 0:08:48 | |
Do you see such councils as rather small? | 0:08:48 | 0:08:52 | |
We don't have time to focus on other councils, Vaughan! | 0:08:52 | 0:08:57 | |
There is a problem in terms of the different sizes | 0:08:57 | 0:09:01 | |
of councils in Wales. | 0:09:01 | 0:09:02 | |
I think we have to look at the way of restructuring this, | 0:09:02 | 0:09:07 | |
but that is a long-term process. | 0:09:07 | 0:09:11 | |
We are currently facing an economic crisis today | 0:09:11 | 0:09:16 | |
and so what is the best way for us to co-operate strategically | 0:09:16 | 0:09:20 | |
in order to make savings that protects core services | 0:09:20 | 0:09:24 | |
but make efficient savings? | 0:09:24 | 0:09:29 | |
Let's now discuss what we heard from Lesley Griffiths | 0:09:29 | 0:09:34 | |
on Newyddion Naw just half an hour ago. | 0:09:34 | 0:09:38 | |
She said quite frankly we have protected | 0:09:38 | 0:09:41 | |
local Government budgets in the past but from now on, | 0:09:41 | 0:09:45 | |
we just can't do so. You will be facing the kind of cuts | 0:09:45 | 0:09:50 | |
that councils in England have faced. | 0:09:50 | 0:09:52 | |
Will that force councils to co-operate? | 0:09:52 | 0:09:55 | |
I think it will. | 0:09:55 | 0:09:58 | |
I think there is more co-operation between councils now | 0:09:58 | 0:10:02 | |
especially in the South East. | 0:10:02 | 0:10:05 | |
They tend to be Labour councils but they tend to work together | 0:10:05 | 0:10:10 | |
because they acknowledge the economic reality. | 0:10:10 | 0:10:14 | |
I think it's inevitable, but I think we will see in the summit tomorrow | 0:10:14 | 0:10:18 | |
that Welsh councils will be ready to co-operate, | 0:10:18 | 0:10:21 | |
acknowledging that's the better way to go. | 0:10:21 | 0:10:25 | |
Ellen ap Gwynn, | 0:10:25 | 0:10:26 | |
do you think there will be some kind of benefit as a result | 0:10:26 | 0:10:32 | |
of these changes, however painful they might be? | 0:10:32 | 0:10:36 | |
Do you think all the arguments will disappear? | 0:10:36 | 0:10:41 | |
I hope so. | 0:10:41 | 0:10:46 | |
Facing such a challenge is also a great opportunity. | 0:10:46 | 0:10:51 | |
We have to look again at how we provide our service. | 0:10:51 | 0:10:56 | |
We don't necessarily need to restructure councils | 0:10:56 | 0:11:00 | |
but we need to look at the way we deliver services. | 0:11:00 | 0:11:05 | |
As Dyfed said earlier, | 0:11:05 | 0:11:07 | |
people want to know when their bins will be collected, | 0:11:07 | 0:11:10 | |
where their children will go to school | 0:11:10 | 0:11:12 | |
and whether family members will receive social services. | 0:11:12 | 0:11:16 | |
That's what people care about. | 0:11:16 | 0:11:18 | |
Those services are expensive | 0:11:18 | 0:11:20 | |
and they take up around 75% of our budgets - | 0:11:20 | 0:11:22 | |
education and social services. | 0:11:22 | 0:11:26 | |
If those services are protected within the budget | 0:11:27 | 0:11:32 | |
the minister gives us, that means we are given less and less | 0:11:32 | 0:11:36 | |
to deliver the other services such as refuse collection, | 0:11:36 | 0:11:40 | |
the road maintenance and so on. | 0:11:40 | 0:11:44 | |
And Huw's portfolio in Cardiff. | 0:11:46 | 0:11:49 | |
Huw, are you expecting the axe | 0:11:49 | 0:11:51 | |
as a result of the exact factors Ellen is talking about? | 0:11:51 | 0:11:56 | |
You have to spend on these services, and your portfolio, | 0:11:56 | 0:12:01 | |
the ministry for fun as it were, will see cuts? | 0:12:01 | 0:12:05 | |
I have to be honest. | 0:12:05 | 0:12:07 | |
I am worried about the future. | 0:12:07 | 0:12:10 | |
Of course, it is important to make the argument, | 0:12:10 | 0:12:13 | |
how do theatres, leisure centres make an economic contribution | 0:12:13 | 0:12:17 | |
to towns and cities. | 0:12:17 | 0:12:19 | |
How do they contribute to the health agenda, for instance? | 0:12:19 | 0:12:23 | |
So those services make a huge contribution to society | 0:12:23 | 0:12:27 | |
that aren't reflected in the bottom line council budgets. | 0:12:27 | 0:12:31 | |
But the problem is, people see the Millennium Centre behind you | 0:12:32 | 0:12:36 | |
and I'm sure that the Millennium Centre brings in | 0:12:36 | 0:12:39 | |
millions of pounds worth of business into Cardiff every year. | 0:12:39 | 0:12:43 | |
But if you present the electorate with a choice between | 0:12:43 | 0:12:46 | |
carrying on giving money to the arts, | 0:12:46 | 0:12:49 | |
but cutting back on the amount of help your mother receives, | 0:12:49 | 0:12:53 | |
everyone would go with the core services at the end of the day? | 0:12:53 | 0:12:59 | |
I'm sure that's a factor and in our last budget in Cardiff, | 0:12:59 | 0:13:03 | |
that is the decision we took. | 0:13:03 | 0:13:06 | |
We decided to protect social services and education | 0:13:07 | 0:13:11 | |
and actually increase their budgets. | 0:13:11 | 0:13:14 | |
But there were cuts to leisure and sports budgets | 0:13:14 | 0:13:16 | |
and for those areas which weren't protected. | 0:13:16 | 0:13:20 | |
So what we have to do is co-operate | 0:13:21 | 0:13:23 | |
and look at other ways of delivering services. | 0:13:23 | 0:13:27 | |
I will put all three of you on the spot | 0:13:27 | 0:13:29 | |
to end this discussion. | 0:13:29 | 0:13:31 | |
If you were starting again and there were no restructuring costs, | 0:13:31 | 0:13:34 | |
if you could draw the map from anew, | 0:13:34 | 0:13:36 | |
how many local councils would you have in Wales? | 0:13:36 | 0:13:39 | |
We have 22, what's the ideal number? | 0:13:39 | 0:13:43 | |
-I think between five and seven. -Five to seven. Huw. | 0:13:43 | 0:13:46 | |
Certainly less than ten. I would imagine about eight. | 0:13:46 | 0:13:50 | |
I wouldn't go back to that system because | 0:13:50 | 0:13:54 | |
Ceredigion really suffered under Dyfed. | 0:13:54 | 0:13:57 | |
There wasn't any investment at all. | 0:13:57 | 0:13:59 | |
We don't want to see those large councils again. | 0:13:59 | 0:14:01 | |
I would go back to the old system. | 0:14:01 | 0:14:04 | |
Not even 13, but somewhere around that. | 0:14:04 | 0:14:08 | |
The pattern would be different but around 14-15, I would say. | 0:14:08 | 0:14:11 | |
Very interesting. Thank you. | 0:14:11 | 0:14:13 | |
We'll come back to you in a moment. | 0:14:13 | 0:14:15 | |
Next - We've got two here tonight but what comes to mind | 0:14:15 | 0:14:18 | |
when one thinks of a councillor? | 0:14:18 | 0:14:21 | |
A woman like Ellen or a young man like Huw? Unlikely. | 0:14:21 | 0:14:25 | |
Recently Local Government Minister Lesley Griffiths | 0:14:25 | 0:14:28 | |
said that we needed more variety in our chambers | 0:14:28 | 0:14:31 | |
and had to encourage more women and individuals from ethnic minorities | 0:14:31 | 0:14:35 | |
to stand as county and community councillors. | 0:14:35 | 0:14:38 | |
But what's the situation at the moment? | 0:14:38 | 0:14:41 | |
Steffan Messenger has been crunching the numbers. | 0:14:41 | 0:14:44 | |
There are more than 9,000 county and community councillors in Wales. | 0:14:54 | 0:14:58 | |
Some of them will come here tomorrow to the City Hall | 0:14:58 | 0:15:01 | |
for the annual summit of the Welsh Local Government Association. | 0:15:01 | 0:15:05 | |
Recently a question has arisen over | 0:15:09 | 0:15:12 | |
whether our councils reflect society. | 0:15:12 | 0:15:15 | |
Is there enough variation? | 0:15:15 | 0:15:16 | |
Or is it too easy to guess the profile of Welsh councillors? | 0:15:16 | 0:15:20 | |
According to Welsh Government statistics published recently, | 0:15:22 | 0:15:25 | |
the majority of Welsh councillors are over 60. | 0:15:25 | 0:15:28 | |
57% of county council and 61% of community councillors. | 0:15:28 | 0:15:33 | |
99.4% of councillors are white | 0:15:33 | 0:15:36 | |
and just 32% are women. | 0:15:36 | 0:15:39 | |
Last month, the Local Government Minister, Lesley Griffiths, | 0:15:41 | 0:15:44 | |
said that things had to change. | 0:15:44 | 0:15:46 | |
She has set up a special group to look at how to open up | 0:15:46 | 0:15:50 | |
council chambers to reflect the community they represent. | 0:15:50 | 0:15:54 | |
There are two ways you can do this. | 0:15:56 | 0:15:58 | |
I think the way the minister has done it is | 0:15:58 | 0:16:01 | |
by reaching for the plasters to try and cover the cracks. | 0:16:01 | 0:16:05 | |
That's that they're going to do now. | 0:16:05 | 0:16:07 | |
But I think what we need to do in my opinion, | 0:16:07 | 0:16:10 | |
is to get to grips with the core problem | 0:16:10 | 0:16:13 | |
which is the fact that local government structure in Wales | 0:16:13 | 0:16:17 | |
is all wrong. Everyone knows that. | 0:16:17 | 0:16:19 | |
But they are unwilling to get to grips with it. | 0:16:19 | 0:16:22 | |
The voting process needs to be tackled. | 0:16:22 | 0:16:25 | |
3,000 county and community councillors were interviewed | 0:16:25 | 0:16:29 | |
for the Government's recent figures. | 0:16:29 | 0:16:31 | |
83% said they had previously been councillors. | 0:16:31 | 0:16:36 | |
That might be a sign that new blood is rare. | 0:16:36 | 0:16:39 | |
As one of the youngest councillors at Gwynedd Council, | 0:16:40 | 0:16:43 | |
Mair Rowlands is aware that she is in the majority. | 0:16:43 | 0:16:45 | |
I think people have a certain image in their heads | 0:16:45 | 0:16:48 | |
of what local authorities are like | 0:16:48 | 0:16:50 | |
and have never thought about standing. | 0:16:50 | 0:16:54 | |
Once you support them and if they do take part in their community | 0:16:55 | 0:17:00 | |
and are enthusiastic such as young mothers | 0:17:00 | 0:17:03 | |
or somebody who has had a successful career | 0:17:03 | 0:17:06 | |
in a specialised, area, it is important to encourage them, | 0:17:06 | 0:17:08 | |
but there is a stigma surrounding local government. | 0:17:08 | 0:17:13 | |
The hope now is to smash that stigma | 0:17:13 | 0:17:15 | |
to make sure our councils have different characters. | 0:17:15 | 0:17:19 | |
That was Steffan on the streets of Cardiff. | 0:17:21 | 0:17:24 | |
Some of the figures are quite frightening, aren't they? | 0:17:24 | 0:17:27 | |
Yes, and unless councils change their structure | 0:17:27 | 0:17:30 | |
in terms of council meetings and so on, | 0:17:30 | 0:17:33 | |
then it is hard to see it changing. | 0:17:33 | 0:17:36 | |
Is it the councils or the parties? | 0:17:36 | 0:17:38 | |
I think the main problem is the council. | 0:17:38 | 0:17:41 | |
It is possible for parties to look at targets | 0:17:41 | 0:17:44 | |
in terms of women and ethnic minority candidates. | 0:17:44 | 0:17:48 | |
But I think we can attract more people in | 0:17:48 | 0:17:54 | |
but once they're in and they see the way the councils work, | 0:17:54 | 0:17:58 | |
I think it is difficult to see how they would carry on to be honest. | 0:17:58 | 0:18:02 | |
Huw, your group on Cardiff Council is full of new councillors. | 0:18:02 | 0:18:07 | |
-You had about 13 before the election, and now you have... -46. | 0:18:07 | 0:18:13 | |
What is the representation in your group? | 0:18:13 | 0:18:16 | |
I didn't recognise that bulletin, to be honest | 0:18:16 | 0:18:19 | |
because it is quite a mixed group, to be honest. | 0:18:19 | 0:18:24 | |
We've clearly got Heather Joyce as leader | 0:18:24 | 0:18:28 | |
and the only other female leader is Ellen ap Gwynn here. | 0:18:28 | 0:18:32 | |
We have three aged under 32 on the cabinet. | 0:18:32 | 0:18:35 | |
We have several young members | 0:18:35 | 0:18:38 | |
and over a third are female so it is not a perfect balance. | 0:18:38 | 0:18:41 | |
We have some from ethnic backgrounds as well. | 0:18:41 | 0:18:44 | |
Not the perfect balance but it's certainly better | 0:18:44 | 0:18:46 | |
than what was described there. | 0:18:46 | 0:18:48 | |
Did that happen naturally? | 0:18:48 | 0:18:49 | |
Is that because Cardiff is a multi-cultural and a mixed city | 0:18:49 | 0:18:55 | |
or did the party go out of their way to make sure that happened? | 0:18:55 | 0:18:58 | |
One thing we had was, all our target seats had a woman on the shortlist. | 0:18:58 | 0:19:04 | |
Because Cardiff has three seat wards? | 0:19:05 | 0:19:09 | |
Exactly, but apart from that it was a natural process | 0:19:09 | 0:19:15 | |
and there was plenty of competition for places. | 0:19:15 | 0:19:18 | |
But that is just the talent of the Labour Party in Cardiff. | 0:19:18 | 0:19:22 | |
That was a party political broadcast! | 0:19:22 | 0:19:25 | |
How about in Ceredigion, Ellen ap Gwynn? | 0:19:26 | 0:19:30 | |
I remember years ago I attended a meeting | 0:19:30 | 0:19:33 | |
and I think it was full of farmers. | 0:19:33 | 0:19:36 | |
That has changed. That has changed. | 0:19:36 | 0:19:38 | |
As a result we have changed matters at the council. | 0:19:38 | 0:19:42 | |
But saying that, I've already had this chat with the minister, | 0:19:42 | 0:19:47 | |
I actually went out of my way to attract more | 0:19:47 | 0:19:51 | |
and more women to stand before the last election. | 0:19:51 | 0:19:56 | |
And I found it extremely difficult to persuade them to stand. | 0:19:56 | 0:20:00 | |
-Why? -Mainly because they were working. | 0:20:00 | 0:20:03 | |
They have children and they have family commitments | 0:20:03 | 0:20:07 | |
and in a rural area, it can take me three-quarters of an hour | 0:20:07 | 0:20:11 | |
to go from my house to the head office where we meet. | 0:20:11 | 0:20:15 | |
If the county is going to grow up to Carmarthen, | 0:20:15 | 0:20:19 | |
an hour-and-a-half away, | 0:20:19 | 0:20:22 | |
that is going to mean even fewer people standing. | 0:20:22 | 0:20:25 | |
It is difficult enough to persuade people to stand now. | 0:20:27 | 0:20:30 | |
We have six out of 42 members in Ceredigion who are female. | 0:20:30 | 0:20:34 | |
One is with me on the Cabinet. | 0:20:34 | 0:20:37 | |
We have got young blood on the Cabinet as well. | 0:20:37 | 0:20:40 | |
So there is a variety of ages. | 0:20:40 | 0:20:43 | |
We have got more young people coming in after the last election, | 0:20:43 | 0:20:46 | |
but we don't have enough women. | 0:20:46 | 0:20:49 | |
That's not for the want of trying. | 0:20:49 | 0:20:51 | |
It's easier to get them in the community. | 0:20:51 | 0:20:54 | |
I think jobs are very relevant | 0:20:54 | 0:20:57 | |
because I see it all the time. | 0:20:57 | 0:20:59 | |
The fact that councillors work part-time as well as council duties, | 0:20:59 | 0:21:04 | |
is often used as a political weapon. | 0:21:04 | 0:21:08 | |
We need to look at that. | 0:21:08 | 0:21:10 | |
I think we need to accept the fact that people | 0:21:10 | 0:21:14 | |
aren't prepared to put their careers on hold as it was | 0:21:14 | 0:21:17 | |
in order to become councillors. | 0:21:17 | 0:21:19 | |
That's very difficult, and as a father with children, | 0:21:19 | 0:21:23 | |
unless your partner is eager for you to take on that work, | 0:21:23 | 0:21:27 | |
it is very difficult. | 0:21:27 | 0:21:30 | |
Aled Roberts, we are both old enough to remember | 0:21:30 | 0:21:34 | |
when councillors worked for free. | 0:21:34 | 0:21:36 | |
Some people thought if councillors were paid, | 0:21:36 | 0:21:40 | |
a fair wage, that would free people up. | 0:21:40 | 0:21:44 | |
But the responsibilities that councillors have | 0:21:44 | 0:21:47 | |
are much heavier now than when I started 25 years ago. | 0:21:47 | 0:21:51 | |
It used to be four meetings a month. | 0:21:51 | 0:21:55 | |
If you're talking about a leader | 0:21:55 | 0:21:58 | |
or a cabinet portfolios within any council, | 0:21:58 | 0:22:01 | |
you need to work at least part-time as a councillor | 0:22:01 | 0:22:05 | |
and as a council leader it is hard not take it on as a full-time job. | 0:22:05 | 0:22:09 | |
So what kind of move has to be made to improve the situation? | 0:22:11 | 0:22:15 | |
Is there a magic bullet solution or is Local Government | 0:22:16 | 0:22:21 | |
just a reflection of where power lies in our society? | 0:22:21 | 0:22:25 | |
I think we need our structures to be more flexible | 0:22:27 | 0:22:31 | |
and we shouldn't think of people who are over 60 | 0:22:31 | 0:22:35 | |
to be in charge of everything. | 0:22:35 | 0:22:38 | |
And to some extent power still lies with white males over 60. | 0:22:38 | 0:22:42 | |
And that goes for women too. | 0:22:44 | 0:22:46 | |
What is your magic bullet solution? | 0:22:47 | 0:22:50 | |
-Sorry? -One thing to change the situation? | 0:22:50 | 0:22:53 | |
We need to attract more women and persuade them | 0:22:53 | 0:22:56 | |
that they can do the work. | 0:22:56 | 0:22:58 | |
I think there is a problem to do with lack of confidence. | 0:22:58 | 0:23:01 | |
They think they can't do it. | 0:23:01 | 0:23:03 | |
They are willing to stand on the community councils, | 0:23:03 | 0:23:06 | |
but it is a different matter. | 0:23:06 | 0:23:08 | |
Once they try it out and gain experience they are fine, | 0:23:08 | 0:23:11 | |
and they are excellent, | 0:23:11 | 0:23:13 | |
but it is persuading them in the first place | 0:23:13 | 0:23:15 | |
and we need to raise confidence. | 0:23:15 | 0:23:18 | |
And what do you think? | 0:23:18 | 0:23:20 | |
We need to get the parties to speak to people so that | 0:23:20 | 0:23:23 | |
people realise that councillors are normal people too. | 0:23:23 | 0:23:26 | |
Thank you all. That's it for tonight. | 0:23:26 | 0:23:29 | |
We will be back at 9.30pm next Wednesday. | 0:23:29 | 0:23:34 | |
I hope you will join me then. | 0:23:34 | 0:23:36 | |
There is more political chat on O'r Bae on Radio Cymru | 0:23:36 | 0:23:40 | |
at 2.00pm on Friday. Good evening. | 0:23:40 | 0:23:43 |