Browse content similar to 15/06/2011. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Good morning and welcome to the Daily Politics. Coming up in | :00:21. | :00:25. | |
today's programme: The Chancellor orders a big shake-up of the banks. | :00:25. | :00:30. | |
But has he done enough to avoid a taxpayers' bailout in future? | :00:30. | :00:32. | |
Teachers vote to strike over pensions, and now civil servants | :00:33. | :00:37. | |
look certain to go out too. How should the government respond? | :00:37. | :00:41. | |
It's a big day for Ed Miliband - after a week of bad headlines, can | :00:41. | :00:46. | |
he prove the doubters wrong in PMQs? | :00:46. | :00:56. | |
:00:56. | :00:57. | ||
And have pensioners never had it so good? Turns 60 in Britain today, | :00:57. | :01:02. | |
and it suddenly feels like life is a beach. Free bus passes, eye tests | :01:02. | :01:06. | |
and massive winter fuel payments are all made available to you, | :01:06. | :01:09. | |
regardless of where the work or if you are very rich indeed. But I | :01:09. | :01:19. | |
:01:19. | :01:24. | ||
don't think we can afford it. All that coming up. 90 minutes of | :01:24. | :01:27. | |
public broadcasting service at its finest. And with us for the | :01:27. | :01:29. | |
duration, former Communities Secretary Hazel Blears and former | :01:29. | :01:31. | |
Conservative Cabinet Minister Cecil Parkinson. Welcome to you both. | :01:31. | :01:34. | |
First today, the Chancellor has decided that there should be a | :01:34. | :01:36. | |
separation of the retail and investment operations of the big | :01:36. | :01:43. | |
banks. Banks won't have to sell off their investment arms, but they | :01:43. | :01:51. | |
will have to ringfence their retail divisions to protect depositors. | :01:51. | :01:54. | |
He'll use his annual mansion house speech in the City of London | :01:54. | :01:56. | |
tonight to make the announcement which follows the recommendations | :01:56. | :01:58. | |
of the independent banking commission headed by Sir John | :01:58. | :02:07. | |
Vickers. There had been some doubt about whether George Osborne would | :02:07. | :02:10. | |
go as far as Vickers, though there was pressure from within the | :02:10. | :02:18. | |
coalition and notably from Vince Cable to do so. Cecil Parkinson, | :02:18. | :02:27. | |
has he made the right decision? think he has. You certainly have to | :02:27. | :02:31. | |
separate those two aspects of banking. In fact, I sometimes think | :02:31. | :02:39. | |
the word banking is one of the most over-used words in Britain. A lot | :02:39. | :02:42. | |
of the stuff that has happened was nothing to do with Pang Qing. It | :02:42. | :02:48. | |
was pure speculation. -- it was nothing to do with banking. We | :02:48. | :02:52. | |
dignify the speculation by allowing people to call it investment | :02:52. | :03:00. | |
banking. So I do not think, for many people who invested money with | :03:00. | :03:06. | |
the big banks, had no idea their money was being used by packages of | :03:06. | :03:10. | |
duff mortgages. So separating those two so that people know their money | :03:10. | :03:15. | |
will not be used in that hugely speculative, dangerous fashion, is | :03:15. | :03:21. | |
vital. But are you satisfied that this degree of separation, because | :03:21. | :03:26. | |
he is not going the whole hog and saying that retail banking cannot | :03:26. | :03:29. | |
be in investment banking, he is saying they have to be separate | :03:29. | :03:33. | |
companies. Are you saying that if an investment bank goes bust again, | :03:33. | :03:38. | |
that the taxpayer will not have to bail it out? De at is the object of | :03:38. | :03:44. | |
the exercise. We will have to see how these Chinese walls are built | :03:44. | :03:49. | |
and how strong they are. We have had experience of Chinese walls in | :03:49. | :03:57. | |
the past, where banks were supposed to own shares and sell them and | :03:57. | :04:03. | |
advise on them. They were pretty poor. The strength of the wall will | :04:03. | :04:09. | |
be vital. Should you have gone the whole hog and said if you are in | :04:09. | :04:14. | |
retail banking, you can't be in investment banking? And vice versa? | :04:14. | :04:20. | |
This is broadly the right package. It has been recommended. There has | :04:20. | :04:26. | |
been a study about it. I am keen that we retain our pre-eminence in | :04:26. | :04:31. | |
financial services in this country. It is important to the economy. So | :04:31. | :04:35. | |
separating it completely to look good, if it would have harmed our | :04:35. | :04:39. | |
standing as a financial services centre, I would not have supported. | :04:39. | :04:43. | |
But I am concerned about enforcement. We have seen that | :04:43. | :04:48. | |
regulation was not tough enough when we got into this global crisis. | :04:48. | :04:52. | |
I want to see not just the Chinese walls, but somebody following it up | :04:52. | :04:56. | |
and making sure it is an forced. Banks are dangerous creatures and | :04:56. | :05:00. | |
will slip back to their old habits unless someone keeps an eye on them. | :05:00. | :05:05. | |
The danger would have been if he had gone further and done a total | :05:05. | :05:08. | |
separation, some of the big investment banks could have gone to | :05:08. | :05:13. | |
New York. Meyer Bloomberg is already asking them to come. That | :05:13. | :05:18. | |
is true, so you have this conflict of interests. We want British | :05:18. | :05:24. | |
banking to be strong and successful. But we do not want depositors' | :05:24. | :05:32. | |
funds used to buy packages of dud American mortgages. So striking a | :05:32. | :05:39. | |
balance was key. Thumbs up for the Chancellor from Cecil. | :05:39. | :05:42. | |
Could we be heading for a summer of disappointing weather? Probably. | :05:42. | :05:45. | |
And there could be a few strikes too. This afternoon, we'll learn | :05:45. | :05:47. | |
whether thousands of civil servants will join teachers on the picket | :05:47. | :05:51. | |
line at the end of the month. So how will the government react to | :05:51. | :05:55. | |
unruliness in the classroom and elsewhere? Here's Anita. | :05:55. | :05:58. | |
Yes, Andrew, co-ordinated strikes do look more likely after the two | :05:58. | :06:01. | |
biggest teaching unions, the NUT and ATL, voted in favour of | :06:01. | :06:07. | |
industrial action on June 30th over changes to their pension plans. And | :06:07. | :06:10. | |
today, the PCS union that represents civil service workers is | :06:10. | :06:16. | |
expected to overwhelmingly back striking on the same day. Their top | :06:16. | :06:19. | |
dog Mark Serwotka says up to 750,000 public sector workers could | :06:19. | :06:25. | |
also strike over pension changes. This all comes after the Business | :06:25. | :06:28. | |
Secretary Vince Cable was booed and heckled at the GMB union's | :06:28. | :06:33. | |
conference last week. He suggested that co-ordinated action may lead | :06:33. | :06:38. | |
to tougher union laws. The Mayor of London Boris Johnson and the CBI | :06:39. | :06:41. | |
are amongst those who have called for firmer legislation - they want | :06:41. | :06:45. | |
the law changed to prevent a strike taking place unless at least half | :06:45. | :06:51. | |
of the union members in a workplace take part in a ballot. This morning, | :06:51. | :06:54. | |
the Cabinet Office minister Francis Maude said the government has no | :06:54. | :06:58. | |
plans to change union laws at the moment, but did not rule out doing | :06:58. | :07:06. | |
so in the future. Well, we're joined now by Iain McNicol of the | :07:06. | :07:16. | |
GMB union. Hazel Blears and Lord Parkinson are still here. I | :07:16. | :07:19. | |
understand that pensions are one of the main reasons that people are | :07:19. | :07:24. | |
voting to strike. But given that 90% of people in the public sector | :07:24. | :07:28. | |
have defined pensions, the nice kind of pension, and only 10% in | :07:28. | :07:34. | |
the private sector, will there be much public sympathy? I think there | :07:34. | :07:40. | |
will. If you look at local government workers now, the average | :07:40. | :07:46. | |
pension that a local government member gets is �3,500. That is no | :07:46. | :07:51. | |
gold-plated pensions scheme. Yes, there are a few at the top. Quite a | :07:51. | :07:56. | |
few, actually. But the vast majority of our members, when they | :07:56. | :08:06. | |
retire, have a pension scheme of up to �4,000 a year. But those at the | :08:06. | :08:11. | |
lower end, those earning under �21,000, that is not wear these | :08:11. | :08:19. | |
changes will really hit? government are looking at putting a | :08:19. | :08:23. | |
3% tax on pensions, and that will affect all members of the scheme. | :08:23. | :08:27. | |
In local government, that 3% that they have been asked to contribute | :08:28. | :08:32. | |
will not go back into the pensions. I am sure there could be a fair | :08:32. | :08:37. | |
discussion if they were going back into pension funds. But it is going | :08:37. | :08:40. | |
straight back into central government coffers. So it is a tax | :08:40. | :08:45. | |
on those who have their pensions now. So some public sector workers | :08:45. | :08:49. | |
are only contributing 1.5% at the moment? Yes, but that is the | :08:49. | :08:56. | |
minority. How big a minority? not sure. Neither am I. But the | :08:56. | :09:01. | |
local government workers that Unison and the GMB represent pay 6% | :09:01. | :09:07. | |
into their funded schemes. These are funded schemes with the money | :09:07. | :09:11. | |
within them to pay for the retirement. We renegotiated the | :09:11. | :09:15. | |
scheme two years ago, where extra contribution was made by those | :09:15. | :09:21. | |
paying into the scheme, with a reduction of some of the benefits. | :09:21. | :09:26. | |
A lot of people used to take the view that those in the public | :09:26. | :09:29. | |
sector, this was at a time when private sector pensions were good, | :09:29. | :09:34. | |
too. But it was thought that it was OK that public sector workers had a | :09:34. | :09:38. | |
decent pension scheme, because they were not as well paid. But that has | :09:38. | :09:43. | |
changed. On average, public sector workers are now paid �2,000 more | :09:43. | :09:49. | |
than the average private sector workers. Do you want a race to the | :09:49. | :09:53. | |
bottom? Should we be damning everything down? Or should we work | :09:53. | :09:58. | |
to try and increase the money and pay and terms of conditions of | :09:58. | :10:02. | |
those in the private sector? That is what the trade unions have tried | :10:02. | :10:06. | |
to do. I understand that and I know you do not represent teachers, but | :10:06. | :10:12. | |
if you look at some of these figures, between 2000 and 2010, a | :10:12. | :10:19. | |
teachers' pay increased by 13% in real terms. They have an average of | :10:19. | :10:23. | |
13 wicks' holiday a year in state schools, 18 weeks in the private | :10:23. | :10:28. | |
schools. And they are going on strike, too. That compares to 28 | :10:28. | :10:31. | |
days' average in the private sector. Most people would think in these | :10:31. | :10:35. | |
tough times, we are all suffering. There is an incredible squeeze on | :10:35. | :10:40. | |
living standards going on which is hurting the poorest most. Something | :10:40. | :10:46. | |
has to give? In the public sector, there has been no pay rise for the | :10:46. | :10:50. | |
last two years. With inflation running at 5%, that is a 10% pay | :10:50. | :10:56. | |
cut over the last two years for those working in the public sector. | :10:56. | :11:02. | |
So there has been no pay rise in the public sector for two years? Or | :11:02. | :11:07. | |
are we into the second year now? are through the second year now. | :11:07. | :11:12. | |
There has been no pay rise in the LAUGHTER Sets of pay negotiations. | :11:12. | :11:16. | |
There was meant to be a payment of two and �50 for the people who were | :11:16. | :11:26. | |
earning less than that -- there was meant to be a payment of �250. That | :11:26. | :11:31. | |
has been raised with the Government. This is a difficult one for the | :11:31. | :11:37. | |
Labour Party, Hazel? On the one hand, you are sympathetic to what | :11:37. | :11:40. | |
the GMB is saying here. On the other hand, you do not want a | :11:40. | :11:45. | |
reputation again for supporting public sector strikes. Not at all. | :11:45. | :11:49. | |
Ed Miliband has been very direct about this. He said last year that | :11:49. | :11:54. | |
he would not support irresponsible strikes. Having said that, I can | :11:54. | :11:59. | |
understand why people are worried about their pensions. People feel | :11:59. | :12:03. | |
insecure about the squeeze on living standards. In the public | :12:03. | :12:07. | |
sector, they often did take lower- paid, thinking they would have job | :12:07. | :12:13. | |
security and a decent pension. this an irresponsible strike? | :12:13. | :12:17. | |
not think anybody supports strikes. People themselves will not want to | :12:17. | :12:22. | |
lose the money. But the government has a responsibility to see if they | :12:22. | :12:28. | |
can go into more talks and negotiate. But if it is not | :12:28. | :12:31. | |
irresponsible, why wouldn't they Labour leader and a Labour | :12:31. | :12:35. | |
opposition support the GMB? would be sent to government, is | :12:35. | :12:40. | |
there a way of talking this through? Is there a fair settlement | :12:40. | :12:44. | |
that could be reached? Every avenue has to be explored before people go | :12:44. | :12:50. | |
on strike. Your union colleague, Mark Serwotka, has been on this | :12:50. | :12:53. | |
programme many times. He said he thought negotiations were not going | :12:53. | :12:58. | |
anywhere. Do you agree? We are still party to the negotiations. | :12:58. | :13:04. | |
Has he gone out of them? No. There is always hope as long as people | :13:04. | :13:09. | |
are talking. This morning on the radio, you heard Francis Maude, | :13:09. | :13:13. | |
when he was asked about whether he would look to change the parameters | :13:13. | :13:20. | |
he had set, he never answered that question. The government are -- if | :13:20. | :13:23. | |
the Government refused to negotiate, you are in a difficult situation. | :13:23. | :13:28. | |
If you sit around the table and explore, as we have done with | :13:28. | :13:31. | |
private companies, if you can thrash out a deal both sides are | :13:31. | :13:36. | |
happy with, strikes are not inevitable. But the ones coming up | :13:36. | :13:40. | |
are. Cecil Parkinson, you were in government at a time when Britain | :13:40. | :13:44. | |
was synonymous with strikes. You have been through quite a few. Do | :13:45. | :13:50. | |
you sense a return to these days, or is it not been the same league? | :13:51. | :13:56. | |
First of all, the public sector was hugely reduced when we were in | :13:56. | :14:04. | |
power. When I went to DDT eye on behalf of the taxpayer -- when I | :14:04. | :14:07. | |
went to the Department of Trade and Industry on behalf of British | :14:07. | :14:14. | |
Airways, it could go on and on. And they were all closed shops. They | :14:14. | :14:18. | |
all had heavily unionised workforces. They are now in the | :14:18. | :14:22. | |
private sector, so the scope for the disruption we had at that time | :14:22. | :14:30. | |
is much less. There are still a lot of key industries. The tubes in | :14:30. | :14:37. | |
London, the hospitals, the schools. But there are many areas which | :14:37. | :14:41. | |
previously would have been unionised which now are not. Are we | :14:41. | :14:49. | |
heading for a summer of discontent? I think commonsense will prevail. | :14:49. | :14:53. | |
But one has to accept that the country is in a very difficult | :14:53. | :15:00. | |
situation. I am made director of a number of private companies. We | :15:00. | :15:04. | |
have all had to close the final salary schemes, because they were a | :15:04. | :15:08. | |
threat to the existence of the company. The deficits grew and grew, | :15:08. | :15:18. | |
and you were never in control of them. In the public sector, behind | :15:18. | :15:23. | |
all these funds is the public sector. The country is in a | :15:23. | :15:30. | |
difficult situation, no one denies that. But we are now in a country | :15:30. | :15:37. | |
where the average pay of a FTSE 100 chief-executive is now nearly �3.8 | :15:37. | :15:43. | |
million. When you were in business, the ratio was 40-1. Chief | :15:43. | :15:47. | |
executives earned 40 times more than the average worker. Today it | :15:47. | :15:52. | |
is 150 times. In that situation, why would you make people earning | :15:52. | :15:58. | |
less pay? You are not going to get me defending big City salaries. I | :15:58. | :16:02. | |
cannot imagine what Mrs Thatcher would have said about some of the | :16:02. | :16:09. | |
salaries that are being taken. you get my point. I do, and it | :16:09. | :16:12. | |
seems to me that the capitalists seem determined to destroy | :16:12. | :16:18. | |
capitalism. It is a most peculiar attitude. And the politicians have | :16:18. | :16:27. | |
Let me ask Ian before we go, had you see it panning out in the next | :16:27. | :16:33. | |
couple of months? There are still negotiations Turk be had and they | :16:33. | :16:36. | |
will be difficult, tough negotiations -- negotiations to be | :16:36. | :16:41. | |
had. But if local government understands that they are fully | :16:41. | :16:46. | |
funded, and yes, they're always difficulties with the stock market | :16:46. | :16:50. | |
because of the investments in shares, but I do think there is an | :16:50. | :16:54. | |
opportunity to get round the table and sort this out. I do worry that | :16:54. | :16:59. | |
the government are unwilling to get the settlement that everyone will | :17:00. | :17:07. | |
be happy with. Iain McNicol, come back and see us. He is not going | :17:07. | :17:15. | |
anywhere. Why is he stain? There is a very interesting bit coming up. | :17:15. | :17:18. | |
Well, it's a big Wednesday for Ed Miliband. His performance at last | :17:18. | :17:20. | |
week's Prime Minister's questions was widely criticised. And since | :17:20. | :17:25. | |
then it's seemingly gone from bad to worse. We've had the 'we're-not- | :17:25. | :17:27. | |
plotting-against-Tony-Blair really' files, and worse - accusations that | :17:27. | :17:34. | |
he didn't get drunk at university. What a weirdo! He spent most of his | :17:34. | :17:37. | |
time - apparently - deciding which chocolate bar to buy from the | :17:37. | :17:40. | |
college tuck shop. Well, he's got an equally difficult decision to | :17:40. | :17:45. | |
make today. What to go on at PMQs. But we're kind people here at the | :17:45. | :17:55. | |
:17:55. | :17:59. | ||
Daily Politics. We have made this. Hold this. Is this all for me? | :17:59. | :18:04. | |
have glued a number of category to a number of chocolate bars, and | :18:04. | :18:07. | |
since we do not have Ed Miliband, we have is representative on earth, | :18:07. | :18:16. | |
Hazel. Will he go on it welfare? Will he go on family-friendly | :18:16. | :18:23. | |
policies? Will he go on strike? Inflation? Will he go on the | :18:23. | :18:33. | |
:18:33. | :18:33. | ||
plodding? Leadership? The economy. I am glad we rehearsed this. | :18:33. | :18:43. | |
:18:43. | :18:47. | ||
Deficit? So, hazel, which one? Quickly. Pick a bar. I will go for | :18:47. | :18:53. | |
those too. The NHS and the economy. A we will discuss this a bit more | :18:53. | :19:00. | |
seriously. Because he has had a turbulent time with his leadership, | :19:00. | :19:05. | |
Ian McNicol, and the GMB really worked hard for him to be installed, | :19:05. | :19:10. | |
but they have really gone off him. When asked if they approve of his | :19:10. | :19:13. | |
style of leadership, they could not even bring themselves to raise | :19:13. | :19:18. | |
their hand at the conference. think it was bad state of could do | :19:18. | :19:23. | |
better. That was put to the audience, and everyone thought he | :19:23. | :19:29. | |
could do better. Are you going off him? No, the media story is about | :19:29. | :19:33. | |
David Cameron and Nick Clegg and he is in a difficult position to break | :19:33. | :19:37. | |
through. What he needs to do is pick two or three issues and get | :19:37. | :19:41. | |
out and about round the country and talk to people on the doorstep and | :19:41. | :19:45. | |
in their constituencies and in their workplaces. When all the | :19:45. | :19:51. | |
talking is said and done, is he up to the job? I think so. He is | :19:51. | :19:56. | |
really up to the job. We have this book being serialised in one of the | :19:56. | :20:01. | |
national newspapers which talks of the way the party responded and | :20:01. | :20:05. | |
await his brother responded to him to declare his attention to stand. | :20:05. | :20:08. | |
How much damage does it do when you hear that people are smacking their | :20:08. | :20:14. | |
heads on the table, saying, David, go and hit him. I was told that | :20:14. | :20:17. | |
book was sent back by the newspaper because it wasn't sexy enough and | :20:17. | :20:22. | |
they were told to get more gossip in it, so that is the level of this | :20:22. | :20:26. | |
debate. But you will acknowledge there was deep discomfort at the | :20:26. | :20:30. | |
time, and there is a different kind of discomfort because people are | :20:30. | :20:35. | |
saying he's not landing punches. Everybody wants to rake over the | :20:35. | :20:40. | |
entrails of last year's events. I think it is time we moved on. | :20:41. | :20:46. | |
rage over last week's entrails. His performance at PMQs was lacklustre. | :20:46. | :20:51. | |
We to acknowledge that? A I think everyone would acknowledge that he | :20:51. | :20:54. | |
not -- had not given a great performance. A if you go over last | :20:54. | :20:59. | |
week, you had a fine speech on Monday when he set out the centre | :20:59. | :21:02. | |
ground and the fact we needed people to take responsibility at | :21:02. | :21:06. | |
the top and bottom. That was a very good speech and he did break | :21:06. | :21:14. | |
Putting partisan politics to one side, does it matter if he is not | :21:14. | :21:20. | |
good at PMQs, if he can deliver that kind of speech? There is a | :21:20. | :21:26. | |
danger that new leaders always have difficulties establishing | :21:26. | :21:31. | |
themselves. I remember one party chairman when Edward Heath was | :21:31. | :21:37. | |
Prime Minister, every year at the party conference it was make or | :21:37. | :21:42. | |
break for Ted Heath. And Lord Hailsham said, look, if you plant a | :21:42. | :21:48. | |
tree or a shrub and you pull it up every week to see if the roots are | :21:48. | :21:54. | |
striking, they never strike. So having chosen him, you have to get | :21:54. | :22:02. | |
behind him. And he won those three elections out of four. You would | :22:02. | :22:05. | |
maybe not be surprised to know that I was delighted it was him, because | :22:05. | :22:10. | |
I think there is a gap between him and the public. They find him at a | :22:10. | :22:17. | |
mysterious figure. And the second thing is, it is very difficult to | :22:17. | :22:20. | |
lead 8 parliamentary party where the parliamentary party did not | :22:20. | :22:27. | |
want to. So he has his own peculiar problems. You say PMQs is not as | :22:27. | :22:31. | |
important, but it is the window into his leadership. For most | :22:31. | :22:35. | |
people watching at home, they will see that on the news and hear bits | :22:35. | :22:40. | |
of that on the driving to work. And if he is not effective there, how | :22:40. | :22:45. | |
will they bridge the gulf? It is important because it is what most | :22:45. | :22:49. | |
ordinary people see on their televisions on a Wednesday. He has | :22:49. | :22:53. | |
had some really good PMQs. You will have some occasions when it is not | :22:53. | :22:57. | |
perfect, and he really did score against David Cameron on the NHS. | :22:57. | :23:03. | |
He got David Cameron to lose his temper at PMQs. I thought that was | :23:03. | :23:08. | |
a fantastic performance. So he is comfortable then? How long has he | :23:08. | :23:15. | |
got to settle into the job? How long will he be the new boy? It is | :23:15. | :23:20. | |
less than a year since he became the leader. Difficult circumstances, | :23:20. | :23:24. | |
the worst election result since 1983. He has to rebuild the party | :23:24. | :23:27. | |
and show we have changed. It is a big job and I think he deserves | :23:27. | :23:33. | |
support. What you want him to go on today at PMQs? I think he needs to | :23:33. | :23:40. | |
get stuck into the NHS, have a go at Cameron and Clegg. Even the | :23:40. | :23:44. | |
water down blueprint of Andrew Lansley? Yes, I think it is an | :23:44. | :23:49. | |
opportunity. You have people standing back and saying that they | :23:49. | :23:52. | |
have listened, but that does not resonate with people. I am not | :23:52. | :23:56. | |
convinced that the party has really listened anyway. We will leave it | :23:56. | :24:02. | |
there. Are you saying that too loyal Labour journalist sexed up | :24:02. | :24:09. | |
their book to please the Mail on Sunday? Loyal Labour journalist? Do | :24:09. | :24:16. | |
those words computer? There might be the odd one. -- to those words | :24:16. | :24:25. | |
Now - it's time for a health warning. In fact you're health and | :24:25. | :24:29. | |
safety is our first priority. Unlike some in the profession, they | :24:29. | :24:32. | |
followed the Prime Minister and deputy PM onto a hospital ward | :24:32. | :24:41. | |
yesterday and got this ticking off from a consultant. Just a minute. I | :24:41. | :24:44. | |
am a senior consultant in the department. While we told to walk | :24:44. | :24:54. | |
:24:54. | :24:55. | ||
around like this -- Why are we told to walk around like this? I am not | :24:55. | :25:05. | |
:25:05. | :25:08. | ||
That photo-shoot went pretty well! Cecil, this is not going to hurt at | :25:08. | :25:13. | |
all. Well, we take no such risks here so you are quite safe | :25:13. | :25:17. | |
competing for one of our completely sterile Daily Politics mugs. | :25:17. | :25:23. | |
will remind you how to enter, but less see if you can remember when | :25:23. | :25:33. | |
:25:33. | :26:02. | ||
# "Just A Little Bit" - Liberty X but sometimes I feel like I want to | :26:02. | :26:09. | |
crawl away and hide, but I won't. just don't think I'm as good at it | :26:09. | :26:16. | |
as I was at my other job. prosecutor verses Slobodan | :26:16. | :26:22. | |
Milosevic. No one is above the law or above the reach of international | :26:22. | :26:32. | |
:26:32. | :26:34. | ||
My mother always said, are you eating pretzels? Chew them before | :26:34. | :26:44. | |
:26:44. | :26:50. | ||
So, if you want to be within a chance of winning one of these | :26:50. | :26:56. | |
beautiful things, send your answer to the e-mail address. For terms | :26:56. | :27:02. | |
and conditions, they are on our website. Did you notice they took | :27:02. | :27:09. | |
all the chocolate away? That was in a nanosecond. I am worried that you | :27:09. | :27:14. | |
have touched the glove -- the market without your gloves on. | :27:14. | :27:18. | |
is coming up to midday, so let's take a look at Big Ben, as we | :27:18. | :27:22. | |
always do. Not a great deal out there, but it is looking clear. It | :27:22. | :27:26. | |
can only mean one thing, Prime Minister's questions in a few | :27:26. | :27:34. | |
minutes. And we also have some Let's play a part of the build up. | :27:34. | :27:39. | |
It is all on a Ed Miliband. Absolutely. The reason last week | :27:39. | :27:43. | |
was so important is that the government is in a bit of a mess. | :27:43. | :27:47. | |
There are you turns on dustbins, health, sentencing. And there was | :27:48. | :27:50. | |
an expectation ahead of last Wednesday that Ed Miliband would | :27:50. | :27:56. | |
bring these things together and land a punch, but he didn't. It was | :27:56. | :28:00. | |
the fact he underperformed to expectations. There was an audible | :28:00. | :28:06. | |
deflation from his own side and he failed to really pin up the story | :28:06. | :28:10. | |
on the Prime Minister and let himself become a target of media | :28:10. | :28:13. | |
criticism and sniping from backbenchers. So today, what he has | :28:13. | :28:18. | |
to do, his land a punch. Pick a subject, possibly the NHS although | :28:18. | :28:23. | |
dustbins is a great subject. And try to explain to the public, who | :28:23. | :28:26. | |
don't like Prime Minister's Questions that much, why the | :28:26. | :28:33. | |
government is not functioning as it should. The public like PMQs and | :28:33. | :28:37. | |
they do not like it when it is quite. Every time the Speaker says | :28:37. | :28:42. | |
they should be quiet, we get e-mail saying they like the argy-bargy. | :28:42. | :28:47. | |
But from a party leader point of view, it has to be professional. | :28:47. | :28:51. | |
What line would you take on the NHS? There is a general sense in | :28:51. | :28:54. | |
the country that the government has been all over the place on it and | :28:54. | :29:01. | |
the coalition's divided on it. But all of this talk of GP | :29:01. | :29:04. | |
commissioning and abolition of primary care trusts and that there | :29:04. | :29:07. | |
will be health senates and we are getting rid of strategic health | :29:07. | :29:14. | |
authorities, I would suggest that for most people, including me... | :29:14. | :29:18. | |
There is a line I would and wouldn't take. I wouldn't take the | :29:18. | :29:22. | |
line of privatising the NHS, because David Cameron will say that | :29:22. | :29:25. | |
they are implementing the rules that your government starting. The | :29:25. | :29:29. | |
line I would take is waiting lists. You have to have some retail | :29:29. | :29:36. | |
politics'. That is about patients. In his speech the Prime Minister | :29:36. | :29:39. | |
gave an unspecific pledge that waiting lists might rise, so that | :29:39. | :29:45. | |
will resonate with people at home. We may be going over win a second. | :29:45. | :29:50. | |
What would you advise Mr Miliband to do? I would advise him to be | :29:50. | :29:53. | |
passionate and angry on behalf of the British people. They want to | :29:53. | :29:57. | |
hear him standing up and pinning the blame on the Prime Minister and | :29:57. | :30:02. | |
also asked him why it costs �800 million for the NHS reorganisation. | :30:02. | :30:07. | |
The that is the price ticket. complete waste of money. It is | :30:07. | :30:12. | |
unbelievable. You have been part of a big reforming government, Cecil. | :30:12. | :30:16. | |
They want to reform the education system big time, cut the deficit as | :30:16. | :30:21. | |
it has never been cut before, so was it wise to also come with a | :30:21. | :30:31. | |
major reform of the NHS? The NHS is something where each party has | :30:31. | :30:34. | |
identified the same answer. When I was in the Cabinet we talked about | :30:34. | :30:41. | |
the internal market. Labour or abolish it then brought it back. | :30:41. | :30:45. | |
Tony Blair said it was conservative and got rid of it, but then seven | :30:45. | :30:50. | |
years later he goes back to where we were. The question was whether | :30:50. | :30:54. | |
it was wise to go in for radical reform on top of all the other | :30:54. | :30:57. | |
things, especially since we were not prepared for it? I think it is | :30:57. | :31:05. | |
necessary. It is a huge burden, but a necessary burden, but a colossal | :31:05. | :31:10. | |
burden for the taxpayer. And there is huge waste. In the manifesto you | :31:10. | :31:14. | |
said there would be no more top down reorganisation of the NHS and | :31:14. | :31:21. | |
you are doing all of this. It is unusual to be criticised for | :31:21. | :31:25. | |
getting on with the policy that you didn't promise. Most of the | :31:25. | :31:29. | |
criticism comes from not implementing policies that you did. | :31:29. | :31:37. | |
There was a bit of tap dancing know. This looks pretty much like top | :31:37. | :31:41. | |
down reorganisation, if he walks and talks like that. There is a | :31:41. | :31:44. | |
massive centralisation of the power they would give away. On the one | :31:44. | :31:47. | |
hand the public say they do not want reorganisation because they | :31:47. | :31:52. | |
don't trust politicians, but we had some polling this week that | :31:52. | :31:56. | |
suggested that the public for their big problems with the NHS. We are | :31:56. | :32:05. | |
This morning I had a meeting with colleagues and others. Initial to | :32:05. | :32:10. | |
know why duties, I shall have further meetings later. | :32:10. | :32:16. | |
Thousands of people in my constituency work hard at for less | :32:16. | :32:20. | |
than �26,000 a year. Does my right honourable friend agree with me | :32:20. | :32:26. | |
that everybody who believes in the necessity of capping benefits must | :32:26. | :32:34. | |
vote for the Welfare Reform Bill tonight? My honourable friend is | :32:34. | :32:38. | |
right. We are right to reform welfare. Welfare costs have got out | :32:38. | :32:44. | |
of control in our country. We want to make sure that work always pays. | :32:44. | :32:48. | |
We want to make sure that if people do the right thing, we are on their | :32:48. | :32:52. | |
side. It cannot be right for some families to get over �26,000 a year | :32:52. | :32:56. | |
in benefits that is paid for by people who are working hard and pay | :32:56. | :33:01. | |
their taxes. Everyone in the House should support the welfare bill | :33:01. | :33:05. | |
tonight. It is disappointing that Labour talk about welfare, but will | :33:05. | :33:15. | |
:33:15. | :33:19. | ||
not vote for welfare reform. THE SPEAKER: Ed Miliband. | :33:19. | :33:24. | |
Mr Speaker, when the Prime Minister signed off his welfare bill, did he | :33:24. | :33:29. | |
know that it would make 7000 cancer patients worse off by as much as | :33:29. | :33:37. | |
�94 a week? That is not the case. We are using the same definition of | :33:37. | :33:40. | |
people who are suffering and are terminally ill as the last | :33:40. | :33:44. | |
government. We want to make sure those people are helped and | :33:44. | :33:49. | |
protected. If you are in favour of welfare reform, you want to | :33:49. | :33:52. | |
encourage people to do the right thing, it is no good talking about | :33:52. | :33:57. | |
it, you have to vote for it. usual, he does not know what is in | :33:57. | :34:06. | |
his own bill. Listen to Macmillan Cancer Support. On 13th June 2011 - | :34:06. | :34:11. | |
cancer patients to lose up to �94 a week. These are people who have | :34:11. | :34:15. | |
worked hard all their lives, who have done the right thing, who have | :34:15. | :34:19. | |
paid their taxes. And when they are indeed, the Prime Minister is | :34:19. | :34:25. | |
taking money away from him. I ask him again, how can it be right that | :34:25. | :34:33. | |
people with cancer, 7000 of them, are losing �94 a week? We are using | :34:33. | :34:40. | |
the same test as the last government supported. All we see | :34:41. | :34:44. | |
here is a Labour Party desperate not to support welfare reform, and | :34:44. | :34:49. | |
try to find an excuse to get off supporting welfare reform. Anyone | :34:49. | :34:53. | |
who is terminally ill get immediate access to the higher level of | :34:53. | :34:58. | |
support. We will provide that to all people who are unable to work. | :34:58. | :35:03. | |
That is the guarantee we make. He has to stop reading of his | :35:03. | :35:07. | |
responsibilities and back the welfare reform he talks about. | :35:07. | :35:12. | |
Speaker, he doesn't know the detail of his own bill. Let me explain it | :35:12. | :35:18. | |
to him. Because the Government is stopping contributory employment | :35:18. | :35:24. | |
support allowance after one year for those in work-related activity, | :35:25. | :35:33. | |
cancer patients, 7000 of them, are losing �94 a week. I ask him again, | :35:33. | :35:42. | |
how can that be right? Order. The question has been asked. Order. | :35:43. | :35:49. | |
Order. The answer will be heard. is wrong on the specific point. | :35:49. | :35:54. | |
First of all, our definition of terminally ill is the same one used | :35:54. | :36:01. | |
by the last government. Anyone out of work will be given the extra | :36:01. | :36:04. | |
support that comes from employment support allowance, irrespective of | :36:04. | :36:10. | |
a person's income or assets. That will last for 12 months. He is | :36:10. | :36:15. | |
wrong, and he should admit it. On a means-tested basis, this additional | :36:15. | :36:19. | |
support can last indefinitely. That is the truth. He should check his | :36:19. | :36:24. | |
facts before he comes to the house and chickens out of welfare reform. | :36:24. | :36:28. | |
Let's be clear about this. In the first answer, he said his policy | :36:28. | :36:33. | |
was the same as the last government. Now he has admitted that they are | :36:34. | :36:37. | |
ending contributory best employment support allowance after one year. | :36:38. | :36:44. | |
Let me tell him what Macmillan Cancer Support says. I think they | :36:44. | :36:54. | |
should listen. This is what they are saying. I think it is a | :36:54. | :36:58. | |
disgrace that Conservative members are shouting while we are talking | :36:58. | :37:07. | |
about people with cancer. This is what they say. Many people will | :37:07. | :37:11. | |
lose this benefit simply because they have not recovered quickly | :37:11. | :37:15. | |
enough. Mr Speaker, asking the question again, will he now admit | :37:15. | :37:22. | |
that 7000 cancer patients are losing up to �94 a week? Let me | :37:22. | :37:28. | |
explain it again to him. I do not think he has got the point. Order. | :37:28. | :37:34. | |
Order. I think it is a disgrace that members on both sides of the | :37:34. | :37:37. | |
house are shouting their heads off when matters of the most serious | :37:37. | :37:42. | |
concern are being debated. I repeat what I have said before. The public | :37:42. | :37:48. | |
despise this sort of behaviour. Let's have a bit of order. This is | :37:48. | :37:52. | |
important, and I want to explain to the honourable gentleman why he has | :37:52. | :37:57. | |
got it wrong and what we are proposing is right. The definition | :37:57. | :38:01. | |
of who is terminally ill, these are horrible things to discuss, but let | :38:01. | :38:07. | |
me explain. It is the same definition, six months. Anyone out | :38:07. | :38:10. | |
of work who lives longer than that will be given the extra support | :38:10. | :38:15. | |
that comes from employment support allowance. That is irrespective of | :38:15. | :38:21. | |
a person's income or their assets, and will last for 12 months, not | :38:21. | :38:24. | |
the six months that the Leader of the Opposition said. On a means- | :38:24. | :38:28. | |
tested basis, this additional support can last indefinitely. It | :38:28. | :38:33. | |
is the same test as the last government. It is put in place | :38:33. | :38:38. | |
fairly. We have listened to Macmillan Cancer Support, and we | :38:38. | :38:41. | |
have made sure someone is reviewing all the medical tests that take | :38:41. | :38:45. | |
place under the system. I know he wants to create a distraction from | :38:45. | :38:49. | |
the fact that he will not support welfare reform, but I have answered | :38:49. | :38:53. | |
his question. He should now answer mind - why will you not back the | :38:53. | :38:58. | |
bill? In case he had forgotten, I asked the questions, and he fails | :38:58. | :39:05. | |
to answer them. Let me try and explain it to him. Listen to | :39:05. | :39:09. | |
professor Jane Mayer, chief medical officer or of Macmillan Cancer | :39:09. | :39:13. | |
Support. "in my experience, one year is simply not long enough for | :39:13. | :39:18. | |
many people to recover from cancer. The serious physical and | :39:18. | :39:21. | |
psychological side-effects can last for many months, even years after | :39:21. | :39:24. | |
treatment has finished. It is crucial that patients are not | :39:24. | :39:29. | |
forced to return to work before they are ready". Macmillan Cancer | :39:29. | :39:33. | |
Support and Britain's cancer charities have been making this | :39:33. | :39:36. | |
argument for months. I am amazed that the Prime Minister does not | :39:36. | :39:39. | |
know about this argument. Why doesn't he know about these | :39:39. | :39:43. | |
arguments? The House of Commons is voting on this bill tonight. He | :39:43. | :39:48. | |
should know about these arguments. I ask him again, will he now admit | :39:48. | :39:54. | |
that 7000 cancer patients are losing up to �94 a week? I have | :39:54. | :39:59. | |
answered his question three times. With a full explanation. The whole | :39:59. | :40:04. | |
point about our benefit reforms is that there are proper medical tests. | :40:04. | :40:09. | |
So we support those who cannot work as a generous and compassionate | :40:09. | :40:14. | |
country should, but we make sure those who can work have to go out | :40:14. | :40:18. | |
to work so that we do not reward bad behaviour. He is attempting to | :40:18. | :40:22. | |
put up a smokescreen, because he has been found out. He made a | :40:22. | :40:25. | |
speech this week about the importance of welfare reform, but | :40:26. | :40:30. | |
he cannot take his divided party with him. That is what this is | :40:30. | :40:39. | |
about, weak leadership of a divided party. Mr Speaker, what an absolute | :40:39. | :40:44. | |
disgrace to describe cancer patients in this country as a | :40:44. | :40:49. | |
smokescreen. This is about cancer charities who are concerned on | :40:49. | :40:53. | |
their behalf, and he does not know his own policy. It is not about | :40:53. | :40:57. | |
those who are terminally ill, it is about those recovering from cancer | :40:57. | :41:02. | |
who are losing support as a result of this government. We know he does | :41:02. | :41:06. | |
not think his policies through. Isn't this one occasion when if | :41:06. | :41:12. | |
ever there was a case to pause, listen and reflect, this is it. Why | :41:12. | :41:19. | |
doesn't he do so? This week, we have seen the honourable gentleman | :41:19. | :41:26. | |
get on the wrong side of every issue. If it is cutting the deficit, | :41:26. | :41:33. | |
we now have these CBI, the IMF, his brother, Tony Blair, all on our | :41:33. | :41:38. | |
side and only he is on his own. On welfare reform, we have everyone | :41:38. | :41:42. | |
recognises that welfare needs to be reformed, apart from the right | :41:42. | :41:47. | |
honourable gentleman. On the health service, yes, we now have the Royal | :41:47. | :41:50. | |
College of GPs, the Royal College of Nurses, the Royal College of | :41:50. | :41:53. | |
Physicians, the former Labour Health Minister and Tony Blair all | :41:53. | :41:57. | |
on the side of reform. And on his own, the right honourable gentleman, | :41:57. | :42:02. | |
a weak leader of a divided party. That is what we have learned this | :42:02. | :42:12. | |
:42:12. | :42:21. | ||
Prime Minister, Mike constituent's mother, a British national, on a | :42:21. | :42:25. | |
recent visit to India, was kidnapped and then beheaded in a | :42:25. | :42:29. | |
horrendous murder incident. Can I ask the British Government to urge | :42:29. | :42:33. | |
the Indian authorities to carry out a fall and transparent and thorough | :42:33. | :42:36. | |
investigation and bring to account those responsible for this | :42:36. | :42:40. | |
horrendous murder so that my constituents and his family can get | :42:40. | :42:45. | |
justice for their mother? understand why my honourable friend | :42:45. | :42:50. | |
wants to raise this case. On behalf of the house, we send our | :42:50. | :42:53. | |
condolences to the family. I understand their wish for justice | :42:53. | :42:56. | |
to be brought to bear on the perpetrators. The Foreign Office | :42:56. | :43:00. | |
has been providing the family with consular support, and they will | :43:00. | :43:03. | |
arrange to meet my right honourable friend and the family to see what | :43:03. | :43:07. | |
further assistance we can give. However, responsibility for | :43:07. | :43:10. | |
investigating crime committed overseas has to rest with the | :43:11. | :43:14. | |
police and judicial authorities in that country. We cannot interfere | :43:14. | :43:20. | |
in the processes, but I take to heart the points he makes. | :43:20. | :43:24. | |
Speaker, we know that the deficit was the price paid to avoid a | :43:24. | :43:34. | |
:43:34. | :43:37. | ||
depression caused by... Are caught by the bankers. But in March, the | :43:37. | :43:42. | |
forecast for the budget deficit was increased by �46 billion, �1,000 | :43:42. | :43:49. | |
per person. Will he now at last accept that cuts are choking growth, | :43:49. | :43:52. | |
that that is stoking inflation, and both are increasing the deficit? He | :43:52. | :43:56. | |
is going too far, too fast, hindering and not helping the | :43:56. | :44:03. | |
recovery. Yes or no? The deficit is the price paid for Labour's | :44:03. | :44:13. | |
:44:13. | :44:13. | ||
profligacy in office. Tony Blair in his memoirs, I know they do not | :44:13. | :44:17. | |
want to hear about Tony Blair any more, funny, that. He was a Labour | :44:17. | :44:22. | |
leader who used to win elections. He said that by 2007, spending was | :44:22. | :44:28. | |
out of control. We have to get on top of debt and spending and the | :44:28. | :44:32. | |
deficit. I understand that the Labour leader is trying to persuade | :44:32. | :44:40. | |
the shadow Chancellor of that. Good The Prime Minister will be aware | :44:40. | :44:44. | |
that yesterday was the anniversary of the liberation of the Falkland | :44:44. | :44:54. | |
:44:54. | :45:01. | ||
Sees the United States will he remind the President that they will | :45:01. | :45:05. | |
never be acceptable to her Majesty's government, and if the | :45:05. | :45:09. | |
special relationship means anything, it means that they defend British | :45:09. | :45:16. | |
sovereign treat -- sovereignty over our own territory. He makes an | :45:16. | :45:20. | |
excellent point and I'm sure everybody will want to remember the | :45:20. | :45:23. | |
anniversary of the successful retaking of the Falkland Islands | :45:23. | :45:27. | |
and the superb bravery and courage of all our armed forces who took | :45:27. | :45:32. | |
part in that action. We should also remember those that fell in terms | :45:32. | :45:36. | |
of taking back the Falklands. The point he makes is a good one. What | :45:36. | :45:41. | |
I would say is this, as long as the Falkland Islands want to be a | :45:41. | :45:46. | |
sovereign British territory, they should remain so. End of story. | :45:46. | :45:50. | |
This week we have seen the government changed its mind on the | :45:50. | :45:55. | |
NHS, and sentencing, student visas and dustbin collection, so will the | :45:55. | :45:58. | |
Prime Minister tell us now whether the Prime Minister will change his | :45:58. | :46:04. | |
mind on a government plans to force women to wait up to two years | :46:04. | :46:09. | |
longer before they qualify for their state pensions? All parties | :46:09. | :46:13. | |
supported the equalisation of the pension age between men and women. | :46:13. | :46:16. | |
That needed to happen. It also needs to happen that we raise | :46:16. | :46:20. | |
pension ages to make sure the pension system is affordable. | :46:20. | :46:25. | |
Appoint a would make is because we have been able to do that, we have | :46:25. | :46:29. | |
really into pensions back to earnings, and pensioners are | :46:29. | :46:31. | |
�15,000 better off in their retirement than they would have | :46:31. | :46:34. | |
been under Labour. I think that is a good deal and the right thing to | :46:34. | :46:38. | |
do. If anyone in the party opposite wants to be serious about pension | :46:38. | :46:48. | |
:46:48. | :46:49. | ||
reform and dealing with the deficit, I agree with the government's | :46:49. | :46:53. | |
timetable for increasing the men's state pension age to 66, because it | :46:53. | :46:57. | |
happens gradually. But I would ask the Prime Minister to think again | :46:57. | :47:04. | |
about women's state pension age. The timetable has women's state | :47:04. | :47:08. | |
pension age going up too quickly and leaves women of my age, born in | :47:08. | :47:13. | |
1954, without enough time to plan for what could be two years extra | :47:13. | :47:17. | |
work. Will the Government please look at this again? I understand | :47:17. | :47:22. | |
the concerns about this. But I said in the House last week that over 80 | :47:22. | :47:27. | |
% of those affected will only see their pension age come in one year | :47:27. | :47:31. | |
later. So it is actually a very relatively small number. But the | :47:31. | :47:36. | |
key thing is making sure that the pension system is sustainable so we | :47:36. | :47:40. | |
can pay out higher pensions. There is a similar argument that the | :47:40. | :47:43. | |
house was having in the previous set of questions about the | :47:43. | :47:46. | |
sustainability of public sector pensions. We have to take these | :47:46. | :47:50. | |
difficult decisions. They are right for the long term and they mean a | :47:50. | :47:55. | |
better pension system for those who are retiring. Does the Prime | :47:55. | :47:58. | |
Minister agree with the Institute for Fiscal Studies that with | :47:58. | :48:02. | |
inflation at 4.5 %, more than twice the government target, it is | :48:02. | :48:06. | |
hitting pensioners and lower income families the hardest? The point | :48:06. | :48:09. | |
about pensions is there is the triple guarantee that they will go | :48:09. | :48:15. | |
up by earnings or 2.5 %, or whichever is higher, so it won't | :48:15. | :48:18. | |
affect them in that way. We clearly want to see inflation come down. | :48:18. | :48:22. | |
There is a shared agreement across the House that it is right for the | :48:22. | :48:25. | |
Bank of England to have the responsibility. I notice he does | :48:25. | :48:28. | |
not raise today the welcome news that we have seen the biggest fall | :48:28. | :48:32. | |
in unemployment in one month figures than we have seen at any | :48:32. | :48:36. | |
time in a decade. I think it is time the party opposite started | :48:36. | :48:42. | |
welcoming that good news. There is increasing concern within the house | :48:42. | :48:47. | |
and across the country about the hidden suffering of traffic to | :48:47. | :48:50. | |
children and re- trafficked children. Does the Prime Minister | :48:50. | :48:54. | |
agree that it is essential that a co-ordinated, multi-agency approach | :48:54. | :48:58. | |
across the country from borders to local authorities and local police | :48:58. | :49:01. | |
forces, including the excellent charitable organisations involved | :49:01. | :49:06. | |
in the work, is promoted urgently? My Honourable Friend makes | :49:06. | :49:10. | |
extremely good point and I know how hard the party works on this group. | :49:10. | :49:15. | |
I listen very carefully on what they have to say. One thing that I | :49:15. | :49:17. | |
hope will make a difference is the formation of the National crime | :49:17. | :49:21. | |
agency which should bring a greater co-ordination to vital issues such | :49:21. | :49:27. | |
as this. The SNP won a landslide in the | :49:27. | :49:31. | |
recent elections and the mandate to improve the powers of the Scottish | :49:31. | :49:35. | |
parliament. So will the Prime Minister respect the Scottish | :49:35. | :49:39. | |
electorate and accept the six proposals for improvement in the | :49:39. | :49:43. | |
Scotland Bill by the Scottish government? For we listened very | :49:43. | :49:47. | |
carefully to what people have to say and week of course respect that | :49:47. | :49:51. | |
the SNP won the mandate in Scotland and we are responding positively. | :49:51. | :49:55. | |
But the first point I would make is that the Scotland Bill before the | :49:55. | :49:59. | |
house is a massive extension of devolution. He shakes his head, but | :49:59. | :50:04. | |
is an extra �12 billion of spending power. We will go ahead with that | :50:04. | :50:08. | |
and look at the proposals that Alex Salmond has had. I take the respect | :50:08. | :50:12. | |
agenda seriously, but it is a two- way street. A street in which I | :50:12. | :50:15. | |
respect the views of the Scottish people, but they also have to | :50:15. | :50:19. | |
respect we are still part of, and will always be part of, I believe, | :50:19. | :50:26. | |
a United Kingdom. Last Friday was the 9th anniversary of the British | :50:26. | :50:30. | |
Legion, and on Tuesday, 120 soldiers from the Air assault | :50:30. | :50:33. | |
Brigade will march into Parliament to welcome them back from | :50:33. | :50:37. | |
Afghanistan. Can have a Prime Minister repeat his assurance that | :50:37. | :50:42. | |
the armed forces covenant will be rewritten for the first time in | :50:42. | :50:46. | |
history and written into law? give that assurance and I'm | :50:46. | :50:49. | |
delighted that the Royal British Legion have agreed an approach we | :50:49. | :50:52. | |
will take in the Armed forces Bill and that is being passed through | :50:52. | :50:56. | |
the house. I am glad that the forced -- House of Commons will be | :50:56. | :50:59. | |
welcoming the soldiers from the Brigade as the rest of the armed | :50:59. | :51:02. | |
forces, the bravest of the brave, the best of the best, there isn't | :51:02. | :51:05. | |
too much we can do for the people, which is why the armed forces | :51:05. | :51:09. | |
covenant matters and why we kept our promise Stoop double the | :51:09. | :51:15. | |
operational allowance to soldiers serving in Afghanistan. Millions of | :51:15. | :51:19. | |
our constituents are once more facing big increases in their gas | :51:19. | :51:22. | |
and electricity bills. Many will find it very difficult to make ends | :51:22. | :51:27. | |
meet. What action will the government take to help them? | :51:27. | :51:32. | |
are taking a range of actions. Obviously, the fact we have or oil | :51:32. | :51:37. | |
costing $115 per barrel and gas prices rising by 15 % over a year, | :51:37. | :51:42. | |
that has an impact, but we are putting �250 million into the warm | :51:42. | :51:46. | |
home discount and funding a more targeted warm front scheme that | :51:46. | :51:51. | |
will help 47,000 families this year. We are legislating so social | :51:51. | :51:55. | |
tariffs have to offer the best prices available. We are keeping a | :51:55. | :51:58. | |
promise to say that Post Office card account holders should get a | :51:58. | :52:03. | |
discount. We are keeping the winter fuel payment. And we have | :52:03. | :52:05. | |
permanently increase the cold weather payments. We didn't just | :52:05. | :52:08. | |
allow him to be increased in an election year. We are keeping the | :52:08. | :52:14. | |
higher payments that are very valuable to his constituents. | :52:14. | :52:19. | |
week my Honourable Friend the Member for Stoke visited a school | :52:19. | :52:25. | |
near Stafford. In meetings, parents expressed the excellent teaching -- | :52:25. | :52:28. | |
gratitude for the excellent teaching but also of a provision of | :52:28. | :52:31. | |
their children after the age of 19. Knowing his deep concern in the | :52:31. | :52:37. | |
area, what encouragement can my right honourable friend give them? | :52:37. | :52:41. | |
We have to support special schools. The pendulum again special | :52:41. | :52:44. | |
education swung too far against inclusion, and it is important we | :52:44. | :52:47. | |
give parents and carers proper choices to make sure they can | :52:47. | :52:51. | |
choose between mainstream and special education. He raises the | :52:51. | :52:54. | |
important point that many parents of disabled children when they | :52:54. | :52:58. | |
become young adults want them to go on studying in further education | :52:58. | :53:02. | |
colleges and elsewhere, but the current rules seem to suggest that | :53:02. | :53:05. | |
once they have finished the course, that is it. Parents asked what we | :53:05. | :53:09. | |
will do now and we have to find a better answer for parents who are | :53:09. | :53:12. | |
finding their much-loved children living for much longer and want | :53:12. | :53:17. | |
them to have a purposeful and complete life. In the face of what | :53:17. | :53:22. | |
are crippling energy price rises, driving pensioners and one off | :53:22. | :53:26. | |
family into fuel poverty by the thousands every day under the | :53:26. | :53:32. | |
coalition, can I ask him, he's heat struggling with his energy bill or | :53:32. | :53:35. | |
are any others of the 21 millionairess in his Cabinet | :53:36. | :53:41. | |
struggling with the energy bills? And when is he going to take a | :53:41. | :53:46. | |
personal grip of this situation? From reading the papers this week | :53:46. | :53:50. | |
the people who seem to be coining it are the ones who worked for the | :53:50. | :53:54. | |
last government, but there we are. Clearly fuel prices have gone up | :53:55. | :54:00. | |
because of what has happened to World War -- world gas and oil | :54:00. | :54:03. | |
prices, but we are serious about helping families. That is why we | :54:04. | :54:06. | |
have frozen the council tax and a lifting one million people out of | :54:06. | :54:09. | |
tax and a taken a set of measures to help with energy bills which I | :54:09. | :54:15. | |
describe. We have also managed to cut petrol tax this year, paid for | :54:15. | :54:20. | |
by the additional tax on the North Sea oil industry. I notice that | :54:20. | :54:23. | |
while the party opposite wants to support the petrol price tax, they | :54:23. | :54:29. | |
don't support the fuel -- increase in the North Sea oil tax. | :54:29. | :54:33. | |
Absolutely typical of an opportunistic opposition. The Prime | :54:33. | :54:37. | |
Minister will be aware that this week is National diabetes wheat and | :54:37. | :54:41. | |
the theme this year is let's talk diabetes to encourage people with | :54:41. | :54:45. | |
the condition to speak out and not feel stigmatised all worried about | :54:45. | :54:50. | |
being discriminated against, or joked against in school or in the | :54:50. | :54:58. | |
workplace. Would the Prime Minister please support the campaign? | :54:58. | :55:02. | |
certainly will. And my Honourable Friend makes extremely good point, | :55:02. | :55:06. | |
that many people with diabetes find it an embarrassingly honest and | :55:06. | :55:08. | |
something they don't want to talk about, yet it is affecting more and | :55:08. | :55:12. | |
more people. We have to find a way to encourage people to say that | :55:12. | :55:17. | |
there is nothing abnormal or wrong, but we need to help people manage | :55:17. | :55:19. | |
their diabetes, particularly because you want to see them have | :55:19. | :55:23. | |
control over health care and spend less time in hospital if at all | :55:23. | :55:27. | |
possible. I fully support the campaign and we have to look at the | :55:27. | :55:31. | |
long-term cost of people getting diabetes and recognise there is a | :55:31. | :55:34. | |
big public health agenda, particularly about exercise, that | :55:34. | :55:39. | |
we need to get hold of. The Prime Minister will know that this is the | :55:39. | :55:49. | |
:55:49. | :55:50. | ||
first opportunity I have had to ask him a question. I stand here fresh | :55:50. | :55:54. | |
and full of hope, so why would give the Prime Minister one more chance | :55:54. | :55:58. | |
to answer the question. People in my constituency and up and down the | :55:58. | :56:02. | |
country faced enormous increases in their energy bills announced by | :56:02. | :56:07. | |
Scottish Power. They need help now. When is the Prime Minister going to | :56:07. | :56:11. | |
keep his promise, made in opposition, to take tough action on | :56:11. | :56:18. | |
it excessive energy prices? As I said in answer some moments ago, we | :56:18. | :56:22. | |
are taking action. There is only a certain amount you can do when you | :56:22. | :56:27. | |
see fuel prices go up by as much as they have over the last year, a 50 | :56:27. | :56:32. | |
% increase in oil and gas, but we do have the warm home in Kuyt -- | :56:32. | :56:36. | |
Discount, the warm front scheme, and making sure that where there | :56:36. | :56:39. | |
are special tariffs, companies have to offer them to their users. That | :56:39. | :56:43. | |
makes a difference and there is the point about the Post Office card | :56:43. | :56:46. | |
account holders who currently don't get all the discounts available to | :56:46. | :56:50. | |
people who paid by direct debit. We are making sure they get the | :56:50. | :56:54. | |
discount. She shakes her head, but in one year that's a lot more than | :56:54. | :57:04. | |
:57:04. | :57:08. | ||
Would my Right Honourable friend congratulate the ladies in Ilkeston | :57:08. | :57:11. | |
who made part of the lace on the Duchess of Cambridge's wedding | :57:12. | :57:17. | |
dress. This is the last traditional lace factory here, and that town | :57:17. | :57:20. | |
centre has declined in the recent years over those losses. Would my | :57:20. | :57:25. | |
Right Honourable Friend agree with me that the review into | :57:25. | :57:28. | |
revitalising our town centres has come at a perfect time and time by | :57:28. | :57:34. | |
the Prime Minister to attend our constituents as part of this. | :57:34. | :57:39. | |
would be delighted to come to the constituency. I didn't know that | :57:39. | :57:42. | |
their constituents were responsible for the lace on the Duchess's | :57:42. | :57:46. | |
incredible dress, but I feel I leave today's session enriched by | :57:46. | :57:50. | |
the knowledge. We do want to see the growth in manufacturing and | :57:50. | :57:54. | |
production in Britain, and what we are seeing in the economy, | :57:54. | :57:58. | |
difficult as the months ahead will inevitably be, a growth of things | :57:58. | :58:02. | |
made in Britain, whether that is cars, vans or lace for people | :58:02. | :58:09. | |
stresses. Mr Speaker, the United States secretary of state, Robert | :58:09. | :58:18. | |
Gates, has said - I beg your pardon, Secretary of Defence - has said | :58:18. | :58:28. | |
:58:28. | :58:30. | ||
that the NATO operation in Libya has exposed serious security gaps. | :58:30. | :58:37. | |
A first -- but First Sea Lord, Admiral Mark Stanhope, has said | :58:37. | :58:44. | |
that the operation in Libya cannot be sustained for longer than three | :58:44. | :58:54. | |
:58:54. | :58:54. | ||
months without serious cuts elsewhere. Given those problems... | :58:54. | :59:04. | |
:59:04. | :59:04. | ||
Isn't it time that the Prime Minister reopened at the defence | :59:04. | :59:10. | |
review and did another U-turn on his failed policies? He is called | :59:10. | :59:15. | |
Mark Stanhope, that is his name. I had a meeting of the First Sea Lord | :59:15. | :59:18. | |
yesterday, and he agreed we could sustain the mission as long as we | :59:18. | :59:23. | |
need to, and that is exactly the words that the chief of defence | :59:23. | :59:26. | |
staff used yesterday, because we are doing the right thing. I want | :59:26. | :59:29. | |
one simple message to go out from every part of this government and | :59:29. | :59:35. | |
every part of this House of Commons, that time is on our side. We have | :59:35. | :59:39. | |
got NATO, the United Nations, the Arab League and we have right on | :59:39. | :59:44. | |
our side. The pressure is building, militarily, diplomatically, | :59:44. | :59:47. | |
politically and time is running out for Colonel Gaddafi. On the issue | :59:47. | :59:51. | |
of the defence review, I would say this. For 10 years they haven't had | :59:51. | :59:56. | |
a defence review, now they want to win a row. At the end of this | :59:56. | :59:59. | |
review we have the 4th highest defence budget for any country in | :59:59. | :00:03. | |
the world. We have superb armed forces, superbly equipped and they | :00:03. | :00:13. | |
:00:13. | :00:14. | ||
are doing a great job in the skies By the time PMQs have finished, 450 | :00:14. | :00:19. | |
children will have died from preventable disease and famine. Is | :00:19. | :00:24. | |
it not the case that increasing Britain's aid budget is very much | :00:24. | :00:29. | |
the right thing to do and will save millions of lives across the world. | :00:29. | :00:33. | |
I very much welcome the support from the Honourable Gentleman for | :00:33. | :00:39. | |
the policy of increasing our aid budget and reaching the 0.7 % | :00:39. | :00:42. | |
target of gross national income. I think there are good reasons for | :00:42. | :00:46. | |
doing this. First of all, we are keeping a promise to the poorest | :00:46. | :00:49. | |
people in the poorest countries of the world and we are saving lives. | :00:49. | :00:52. | |
Yes, of course, things are difficult at home but I think we | :00:52. | :00:56. | |
should keep the promise even in the midst of difficulties. The second | :00:56. | :00:59. | |
point I would make is that we are making sure our aid budget is spent | :00:59. | :01:03. | |
very specifically on things like that she Nations for children that | :01:03. | :01:08. | |
will save lives. -- vaccinations. That will mean a child vaccinated | :01:08. | :01:12. | |
every two seconds and a life saved every two minutes. The last point I | :01:12. | :01:15. | |
would make to anyone who has doubts about this issue, is I really do | :01:15. | :01:20. | |
think that as well as saving lives, it is also about Britain's standing | :01:20. | :01:23. | |
for something in the world and standing up for something in the | :01:23. | :01:27. | |
world, the importance of having a strong aid budget, mending broken | :01:27. | :01:37. | |
:01:37. | :01:37. | ||
countries, as well as having an issue as well. In that this carer's | :01:37. | :01:43. | |
week when we celebrate the contribution of Birmingham's care | :01:43. | :01:46. | |
assistants and the loving families who look after their loved ones, | :01:46. | :01:50. | |
will the Prime Minister join with me in condemning Birmingham City | :01:51. | :01:57. | |
Council for cutting care to 4,100 of the most vulnerable in our city, | :01:57. | :02:01. | |
branded unlawful by the High Court. Bank and I asked the Prime Minister | :02:01. | :02:07. | |
what he intends to do to make sure that never again does Birmingham | :02:07. | :02:12. | |
City Council fail the elderly and disabled? I think everybody in the | :02:12. | :02:15. | |
House should welcome that it is Careys week, and I will have a | :02:15. | :02:19. | |
reception in Number Ten tonight to celebrate that with many people who | :02:19. | :02:24. | |
take part and are carers. This government is putting in �400 | :02:24. | :02:28. | |
million to give carers more breaks and specifically putting in �800 | :02:28. | :02:31. | |
million to make sure those looking after disabled children get regular | :02:31. | :02:35. | |
breaks. What we have in Birmingham is an excellent Conservative and | :02:35. | :02:39. | |
Liberal Democrat alliance doing a very good job recovering from a | :02:39. | :02:49. | |
:02:49. | :02:49. | ||
complete mess Labour made of the Last night on Channel 4 television | :02:49. | :02:52. | |
there was documentary called the killing fields, showing the | :02:52. | :02:55. | |
atrocities committed by the Sri Lankan government to the Tamil | :02:55. | :03:00. | |
people which resulted in over 40,000 people being killed. Would | :03:00. | :03:03. | |
the Prime Minister join me in calling for justice for the Tamil | :03:03. | :03:08. | |
people and the people who have lost their lives? I didn't see the | :03:08. | :03:11. | |
documentary, but I understand it was an extremely powerful programme | :03:11. | :03:14. | |
and it refers to some very worrying events that are alleged to have | :03:14. | :03:19. | |
taken place towards the end of that campaign. And what the government | :03:19. | :03:22. | |
has said, along with other governments, is that there should | :03:22. | :03:25. | |
Lankan government does need this to be investigated and the UN needs | :03:25. | :03:28. | |
this to be investigated and we need to make sure we get to the bottom | :03:28. | :03:33. | |
of what happened. The Prime Minister will be aware of the | :03:33. | :03:36. | |
shambles of corporate governance which is the duration at Natural | :03:36. | :03:40. | |
Resources Corporation. I would not expect him to give specific comment | :03:40. | :03:44. | |
on it, but would he agree on behalf of millions of pension holders and | :03:44. | :03:47. | |
small shareholders across the country that high standards of | :03:47. | :03:52. | |
corporate governance at the City of London is critical, as is the role | :03:52. | :03:56. | |
of the Financial Reporting Council? I am aware of this problem and the | :03:56. | :03:59. | |
Honourable Gentleman makes important point. We have caused | :03:59. | :04:03. | |
want companies to come to London to access capital to float on the main | :04:03. | :04:07. | |
market, and that is one of the attractions of Britain, that we are | :04:07. | :04:09. | |
an open economy, but when the companies come they have to | :04:10. | :04:12. | |
understand we have rules of corporate governance that are there | :04:12. | :04:16. | |
for a reason and we need to obey the rules, and I'm sure the | :04:16. | :04:19. | |
Chancellor will be addressing this not only in his speech tonight, but | :04:19. | :04:29. | |
also in the papers we will publish in subsequent days. Mr Speaker, | :04:29. | :04:33. | |
does the Prime Minister agree with me that if the coalition government | :04:33. | :04:38. | |
had not adopted the economic policy that it has rather than listen to | :04:38. | :04:41. | |
the advice of the Shadow Chancellor mortgage interest rates could be 5% | :04:41. | :04:46. | |
higher than what they are now? Honourable Friend makes important | :04:46. | :04:51. | |
point. In this country today, tragically, we have agreed levels | :04:51. | :04:55. | |
of government debt that German interest rates. That is an enormous | :04:55. | :04:59. | |
monetary boost to our economy and we should all welcome the cut in | :04:59. | :05:03. | |
unemployment today. If we had not taken action on the deficit and | :05:03. | :05:06. | |
proved to the markets that we had a way of paying back the debt and | :05:06. | :05:16. | |
:05:16. | :05:17. | ||
deficit, we would be straight in Prime Minister's Questions finishes | :05:17. | :05:21. | |
five minutes later than normal. It started two minutes later than it | :05:21. | :05:26. | |
should have done. I think the Speaker was a lull in extra time, | :05:26. | :05:31. | |
or maybe he needs a new watch. The Leader of the Opposition went on a | :05:31. | :05:36. | |
specific issue of cancer patients who are under treatment and whether | :05:36. | :05:42. | |
they continue to get a particular welfare payment or not. All six | :05:42. | :05:46. | |
questions were taken up by that. It is a technical matter. We will | :05:46. | :05:49. | |
speak to a representative of Macmillan Cancer Care In a moment, | :05:49. | :05:53. | |
who originally raised this issue. And we will have a briefing on what | :05:53. | :05:58. | |
the Government reply is. But before we go into whether Mr Mellor brand | :05:58. | :06:02. | |
was right to go on something so specific because all eyes were on | :06:02. | :06:08. | |
him, let's see what you thought of PMQs. John says Cameron was on the | :06:08. | :06:11. | |
back foot. How can he say Miliband is on the wrong side of the | :06:11. | :06:15. | |
argument when questioning the withdrawal of help from cancer | :06:15. | :06:18. | |
patients? Another e-mail says Cameron avoided | :06:18. | :06:23. | |
the issue today. It was a decent, if not great performance from Ed. | :06:23. | :06:29. | |
Ivan in Cambridge seems to have written -- says we seem to have | :06:29. | :06:33. | |
written Ed Miliband's Obituary too early. Cameron was trounced and | :06:33. | :06:37. | |
looked flustered and foolish at the dispatch box. Some of you are | :06:37. | :06:43. | |
getting annoyed with Ed Miliband on the cancer theme. Ed's use of | :06:43. | :06:50. | |
cancer patients is appalling in his attempt to avoid voting on welfare | :06:50. | :06:55. | |
reform. But hey, what did he do to his own brother? Another says I | :06:55. | :07:00. | |
wonder what people feel about people using them as an excuse to | :07:01. | :07:04. | |
back out of supporting much-needed welfare reform. That might be a | :07:04. | :07:07. | |
good point to talk to Macmillan Cancer Research about, because we | :07:07. | :07:12. | |
have the head of their campaigns here. Were you misquoted by Ed | :07:12. | :07:17. | |
Miliband? No. We think it was a really important issue for Ed | :07:17. | :07:21. | |
Miliband to raise. It is clear that the government had not realised | :07:21. | :07:26. | |
that their welfare reforms will have such a big impact on cancer | :07:26. | :07:31. | |
patients who want to work, but are not quite yet fully ready to do so. | :07:31. | :07:35. | |
We did get in touch with the Department of Work and Pensions | :07:35. | :07:39. | |
while all this was going on, and this was what they had to say. | :07:39. | :07:44. | |
"people deemed too ill to work will be placed in a support group for | :07:44. | :07:47. | |
employment support allowance. There are no requirements for these | :07:47. | :07:52. | |
people to seek work, and the rate of the allowance they receive will | :07:52. | :07:57. | |
not go down after a year. The Macmillan claimed would only apply | :07:57. | :08:01. | |
to people in the Work Related Activity Book, those assessed as | :08:01. | :08:07. | |
capable of at least some work". So it does seem as if when you are | :08:07. | :08:11. | |
really ill, you will not be expected to work and you will not | :08:11. | :08:15. | |
lose benefits. The at is a very technical answer from the | :08:15. | :08:19. | |
Government, which means there are 7000 who this will apply to. There | :08:19. | :08:23. | |
are cancer patients who will be hit under the proposals unless the | :08:23. | :08:27. | |
Government is able to rethink them. It will be those who are recovering | :08:27. | :08:33. | |
from cancer treatment. The people who want to work and will be able | :08:33. | :08:37. | |
to work in the future, but not yet, because of the treatment they have | :08:37. | :08:42. | |
had. I can't believe for a moment that the Government really | :08:42. | :08:45. | |
understands that these people, who want to work, will be penalised to | :08:45. | :08:52. | |
the tune of nearly �100 a week. No doubt this argument will | :08:52. | :08:57. | |
continue as the day goes on as people try to get to grips with the | :08:57. | :09:04. | |
issues on both sides. It seems to apply to a small number of people, | :09:04. | :09:08. | |
although in their thousands, who are recovering from a or under | :09:08. | :09:12. | |
treatment for cancer, but deemed still to be able to do some kind of | :09:12. | :09:16. | |
work. The argument is what amount of welfare payment they should | :09:16. | :09:23. | |
continue to get. Was Mr Miliband right to go on that specific issue | :09:23. | :09:28. | |
for all six questions? I think that today will no doubt be claimed as a | :09:28. | :09:32. | |
victory for Ed Miliband. He was passionate. The issue he picked was | :09:32. | :09:37. | |
retail politics'. People care about this issue hugely. It is hard to | :09:37. | :09:44. | |
argue against somebody defending cancer patients. There are very few | :09:44. | :09:48. | |
people, David Cameron included, who would support people who are | :09:48. | :09:52. | |
seriously ill seeing a cut in their benefit. But it was interesting | :09:52. | :09:56. | |
that Ed Miliband did this through the whole of his entire six | :09:57. | :10:01. | |
question stretch. And it ended up with him in a difficult place. By | :10:01. | :10:05. | |
the end of Ed Miliband's exchanges, he was suggesting, astonishingly, | :10:05. | :10:11. | |
that we should have a pause on the entire welfare plans. That is | :10:12. | :10:17. | |
extraordinary. I am sure Hazelwood agree that one of Labour's problems | :10:17. | :10:21. | |
is that people think Labour were too soft on scroungers and people | :10:21. | :10:24. | |
who kept hold of benefits and claimed things they should not have | :10:24. | :10:28. | |
done. And here is Ed Miliband putting himself on the other | :10:28. | :10:32. | |
argument -- the other side of the argument on reform, calling for a | :10:32. | :10:38. | |
pause in the week that his party is divided. So you have Ed Miliband no | :10:38. | :10:42. | |
doubt having a victory within the Commons, but I am curious at the | :10:42. | :10:48. | |
decision to go on that as an issue and end up calling for a rethink, | :10:48. | :10:54. | |
given where his party is. I think he has had a good day. It was a big | :10:54. | :10:58. | |
test, and he was passionate and angry. It was a real issue that | :10:58. | :11:02. | |
affects people's lives, so it was right. In terms of the welfare | :11:02. | :11:07. | |
issue, people do want us to reform welfare. They want it to be a fair | :11:07. | :11:11. | |
system, and Ed told on Monday about taking responsibility at the top | :11:11. | :11:15. | |
and bottom. But there are things in the welfare bill which are pretty | :11:15. | :11:18. | |
punitive, and that is why there is a debate. But I think he did well | :11:19. | :11:23. | |
today. Being broadly in favour of welfare reform, but disliking some | :11:23. | :11:28. | |
of the things in the bill, is a respectable position for any a | :11:28. | :11:32. | |
position to take. But doesn't that mean you support the principle and | :11:32. | :11:36. | |
argue for changes at committee stage, whereas Mr Miliband has been | :11:36. | :11:40. | |
giving the impression that he would like not to proceed with the | :11:40. | :11:45. | |
welfare reform at all. You don't agree with that? As the committee | :11:45. | :11:49. | |
develops, I think you will see the provisions being tested, and | :11:49. | :11:54. | |
rightly. But I think the people of the country want us to reform | :11:54. | :11:57. | |
welfare. But they also wanted to be fair. If you have groups like | :11:57. | :12:04. | |
cancer sufferers who will lose �100 a week, that is not fair. On the | :12:04. | :12:09. | |
general point of welfare reform, the arguments include people that | :12:09. | :12:13. | |
the press called scroungers and people taking benefits they are not | :12:13. | :12:17. | |
in part two. The more fundamental point about welfare reform is | :12:17. | :12:22. | |
surely to remove the existing perverse incentives, where many | :12:22. | :12:27. | |
people are better off taking welfare than going to work. That | :12:27. | :12:31. | |
was exactly our policy, to say that in any circumstances, you will | :12:31. | :12:36. | |
always be better off in work. We were talking about �40 a week if | :12:36. | :12:41. | |
you were prepared to take a job. If you have a system that is so | :12:41. | :12:46. | |
complicated, and it is, that at the margins you will lose 95p out of | :12:46. | :12:50. | |
every pound you earn, that is not an incentives. So I support making | :12:50. | :12:58. | |
work pay. Was welfare reform an issue too hot for Mrs Thatcher to | :12:58. | :13:05. | |
handle at the time? I do not think so. Then why didn't the Thatcher | :13:05. | :13:09. | |
government go with it? Well, we did. There is this myth that we did not | :13:09. | :13:14. | |
do anything on the health service and just focused on the economy. It | :13:14. | :13:18. | |
is untrue. You put millions on incapacity benefit instead of on | :13:18. | :13:26. | |
unemployment benefit. That was one of our big problems. Incapacity | :13:26. | :13:34. | |
benefit shrank alongside your record. Why didn't the Thatcher | :13:34. | :13:38. | |
government tackle welfare reform? Not long afterwards, Bill Clinton | :13:38. | :13:42. | |
did in the US. We had a lot of things to do when we came to power. | :13:42. | :13:48. | |
People forget what a state the country was in. When I went to | :13:48. | :13:52. | |
Russia as the trade minister in 1979, the Russian minister said to | :13:52. | :13:57. | |
me, we are not going to buy any more from you. You are on strike. | :13:57. | :14:04. | |
Your goods are never delivered on time. They are inadequate. In fact, | :14:04. | :14:08. | |
I must tell you that we are going to buy less from you. We regard you | :14:08. | :14:14. | |
as the sick man of Europe. Ten years later, I went to Moscow again | :14:14. | :14:16. | |
as the Energy Secretary, and the members of the Politburo were | :14:16. | :14:19. | |
queuing up in the hope of getting a meeting, because they saw Britain | :14:19. | :14:25. | |
as a country that had turned itself around. But you can't do everything. | :14:25. | :14:29. | |
Final Word From Sam. Where does this leave Mr Miliband now? Where | :14:29. | :14:32. | |
he was before, which is still having to tackle the two big | :14:32. | :14:36. | |
problems with Labour's reputation, firstly to repair it on the deficit | :14:36. | :14:40. | |
and public finances, and secondly to repair their reputation on | :14:40. | :14:44. | |
welfare reform and not being tough enough. I do not think he achieved | :14:44. | :14:48. | |
anything on those today, although he did look competent in front of | :14:48. | :14:55. | |
his troops. As always during Prime Minister's Questions, it is not | :14:55. | :15:00. | |
just David Cameron and Ed Miliband who are in the spotlight. John | :15:00. | :15:03. | |
Bercow was a controversial choice when he was elected as Speaker | :15:03. | :15:06. | |
almost two years ago now. First, a reminder of some of his more ill- | :15:06. | :15:13. | |
tempered interventions. Order. The Government Chief Whip has | :15:13. | :15:17. | |
absolutely no business whatsoever shouting from a sedentary position. | :15:17. | :15:24. | |
Order! The honourable gentleman will remain in the chamber. The | :15:24. | :15:27. | |
right honourable gentleman has absolutely no business scurrying | :15:27. | :15:37. | |
out of the chamber. Order! Order! The Chief Whip has no business... | :15:37. | :15:41. | |
Order! The right honourable gentleman has known business | :15:41. | :15:48. | |
behaving in that way. A bad example is being said by some | :15:48. | :15:54. | |
senior members to newcomers. Order. There are far too many private | :15:54. | :15:58. | |
conversations taking place. The public is not impressed. They want | :15:58. | :16:08. | |
:16:08. | :16:09. | ||
Order! The minister will resume his seat. The answers have been | :16:09. | :16:11. | |
excessively long winded and repetitive and must not happen | :16:11. | :16:15. | |
again. I have made the position clear and I hope the minister will | :16:15. | :16:19. | |
learn from that. So, an ill- tempered exchange with the health | :16:19. | :16:28. | |
minister Simon Burns who was heard calling the Speaker eight stupid | :16:28. | :16:31. | |
sanctimonious dwarf. He later issued an apology, but did he mean | :16:31. | :16:37. | |
it? Who knows? We are joined by Bobby Friedman who has published a | :16:37. | :16:41. | |
biography of John Bercow. Welcome to the Daily Politics. We have seen | :16:41. | :16:45. | |
you can get angry at times and really does polarise people -- he | :16:45. | :16:49. | |
can get angry. But he does survive through to the next election, or | :16:49. | :16:54. | |
does he? Are I think he will survive. But as anything in | :16:54. | :16:57. | |
politics it comes with a proviso. Because of the way John was elected, | :16:57. | :17:04. | |
he does polarise people. When I was speaking to people for the book, | :17:04. | :17:08. | |
they work some people who said there he was the best thing I ever | :17:08. | :17:12. | |
met, but on the other side you have people who hate him with the real | :17:12. | :17:16. | |
venom and a real personal venom, actually. I think John's position | :17:17. | :17:20. | |
is a little more vulnerable than your average speaker, but only if | :17:20. | :17:25. | |
there is a big event, and who knows what it might be. But if some event | :17:25. | :17:28. | |
were to come up we have the kind of a powder keg building up that | :17:28. | :17:31. | |
people would not step in to save him like they would with other | :17:31. | :17:36. | |
speakers. But at the moment, people think, as a speaker, he is doing a | :17:36. | :17:39. | |
good job. There is no immediate sign that people are trying to get | :17:39. | :17:43. | |
rid of him. What is the general view of him on the Conservative | :17:43. | :17:46. | |
backbenches? A lot of the Conservative backbenches do not | :17:46. | :17:51. | |
like him and a lot would get rid of him tomorrow if they could. But | :17:51. | :17:55. | |
there are others, more moderate, who were changing their view. When | :17:55. | :17:58. | |
John was elected, one minister said to me that he had never seen | :17:58. | :18:03. | |
anything quite so tribal within the Conservative Party as the feeling | :18:03. | :18:09. | |
against John. Nothing has united as much as the Conservative benches | :18:09. | :18:12. | |
have against John Bercow. But as people see how he is doing and | :18:12. | :18:15. | |
getting more urgent questions in and getting through the order paper | :18:15. | :18:19. | |
quicker, I think they realise he is doing quite a good job. I think | :18:19. | :18:24. | |
that is helping. You have to remember that John Major and the | :18:24. | :18:30. | |
government at times and I got eight text from a special adviser saying | :18:30. | :18:35. | |
that the subject of the book was palest of expletives, but that | :18:35. | :18:38. | |
special adviser was preparing for an urgent question that had been | :18:38. | :18:41. | |
granted. That is what you want the Speaker to be doing and you want to | :18:41. | :18:48. | |
hold them to account. Do we know what David Cameron thinks of John | :18:48. | :18:53. | |
Bercow? He has never forgiven John Bercow for the attack when he was | :18:53. | :19:00. | |
standing to be leader of the Conservative Party, he attacked his | :19:00. | :19:03. | |
background as liking hunting and been from Eton College. It was very | :19:03. | :19:07. | |
personal, and it was a necessary, because he was a Ken Clarke | :19:07. | :19:11. | |
supporter, and Ken Clarke said he did not know why he did it. Cameron | :19:11. | :19:15. | |
has stepped in to save him. He backed him in Buckingham at the | :19:15. | :19:18. | |
last election, the constituency where he was honourable. And he | :19:18. | :19:21. | |
also made sure that Conservative MPs did not try and get rid of him | :19:21. | :19:25. | |
when they came back to the Commons after the election. But who knows | :19:25. | :19:28. | |
whether Cameron would step in another time? I think there is a | :19:28. | :19:32. | |
lasting scar, and juicy with a lot of senior Conservatives, he has | :19:32. | :19:36. | |
stepped out of line once too often and Cameron will never forget that. | :19:36. | :19:42. | |
But he has made quite a political journey. We have a clip from an | :19:42. | :19:47. | |
issue of Question Time -- an edition of Question Time, from 1981. | :19:47. | :19:53. | |
Let's see what he was like then. One more common from the audience. | :19:53. | :19:57. | |
For Mrs Castle to describe what Mr Whitelaw said about financial | :19:57. | :20:02. | |
assistance as economic nonsense is utterly absurd. Mrs Castle recalls | :20:02. | :20:06. | |
in her recent book that Mr Callaghan once said that if you | :20:06. | :20:10. | |
were a young man, he would emigrate because he did not have any answers | :20:10. | :20:14. | |
to Britain's economic problems or any others. I would suggest took | :20:14. | :20:17. | |
Mrs Castle that the region she sought to join the European | :20:17. | :20:26. | |
Parliament was precisely the same. Mr Whitelaw was talking economic | :20:26. | :20:32. | |
common sense. A very good point. that the same that man who is now | :20:32. | :20:36. | |
the speed of the house? I think his views have changed a lot since then | :20:36. | :20:43. | |
-- speak of the house. And his hairstyle. Be it has certainly | :20:43. | :20:46. | |
changed for the better. But you can see that kind of energy, and when | :20:46. | :20:53. | |
he gets his teeth into something, he will not let it go. Back in the | :20:53. | :20:57. | |
1980s, he was very right wing and in favour of repatriating | :20:57. | :21:01. | |
immigrants and things like that. He has done a genuine conversion over | :21:01. | :21:06. | |
issues such as that. Now he has the same fervour over gay rights and | :21:06. | :21:12. | |
things like that. What our guest is saying, Cecil Parkinson, is that he | :21:12. | :21:16. | |
is the marmite speaker. You seem to love him or hate him. Is that a | :21:16. | :21:21. | |
healthy thing for the Speaker to be? It is a fact, whether it is | :21:21. | :21:25. | |
healthy or unhealthy, that is the situation is. Where do you come | :21:25. | :21:31. | |
down on this? I have known John for a long time. He personally staged a | :21:31. | :21:36. | |
riot at Essex University that I was involved in. He did not plan to | :21:36. | :21:40. | |
stage a riot, but by the time he had finished what he was doing, we | :21:40. | :21:45. | |
had a riot. I have kept an eye on John over many years. Tell us what | :21:45. | :21:52. | |
happened. The week before, Teddy Taylor had been attacked by a | :21:52. | :21:56. | |
student who smashed and it a kick into his face and cut him and the | :21:56. | :22:02. | |
student was arrested. I was going the next week -- smashed and it | :22:02. | :22:06. | |
paid into his face. John announced it would be a ticket only, no | :22:06. | :22:13. | |
Labour members meeting. All the other students decided we would not | :22:13. | :22:17. | |
getting to the room, so there were hundreds of people blocking the | :22:17. | :22:23. | |
entrance. And we subsequently had the meeting, and we had 1,200 | :22:23. | :22:29. | |
people there. It was not a right. Do you like Marmite or not, Hazel | :22:29. | :22:38. | |
Blears? I love the Speaker. loved the speaker? You loved the | :22:38. | :22:43. | |
speaker? I think he is a breath of fresh air. He welcomes the new | :22:43. | :22:46. | |
members, he gets through the business, he is about my size and | :22:46. | :22:52. | |
we see eye-to-eye. On that shock news going across the wires of the | :22:52. | :22:57. | |
world, that Hazel Blears is in love with the Speaker, we say goodbye to | :22:57. | :23:05. | |
Bobby Friedman. Before we go on, we need to point out that Mike Hobday | :23:05. | :23:08. | |
from Macmillan who spoke to us from PMQs was a Labour candidate in the | :23:08. | :23:14. | |
last election. Just as we find these things out, we tell you them. | :23:14. | :23:20. | |
With the country's finances still in a pretty dire Strait, should we | :23:20. | :23:28. | |
still be paying for eye tests, bus passes? Peter Stringfellow, and | :23:28. | :23:34. | |
even Mark not for, dire Straits, you see. It thinks that the | :23:34. | :23:39. | |
taxpayer is already paying far too much to subsidise the over-sixties | :23:39. | :23:41. | |
and that any increase in state funding for long-term care for the | :23:41. | :23:45. | |
elderly which might come out in the review next month might be the | :23:45. | :23:55. | |
:23:55. | :24:00. | ||
Turn that 60 in Britain today, and it suddenly feels like life is a | :24:00. | :24:05. | |
beach. Free bus passes, eye tests, and winter fuel payments are all | :24:05. | :24:08. | |
made available to you regardless of whether you are working unemployed | :24:08. | :24:14. | |
will very rich indeed. But I don't think Britain can avoid it -- | :24:14. | :24:18. | |
afford it. Last year the old as members of the baby-boom generation | :24:18. | :24:21. | |
began to retire. There are 17 million of them and they have | :24:21. | :24:25. | |
better pensions, more savings and own more homes than any other age | :24:25. | :24:31. | |
group in society, but we continue to subsidise them. A few years ago | :24:31. | :24:36. | |
a parliamentary report found that winter fuel payments cost Britain | :24:36. | :24:39. | |
�3 billion every year. But only 12 % of the people who get them | :24:39. | :24:43. | |
actually need them. To me, that sounds like a terrible waste of | :24:43. | :24:53. | |
:24:53. | :24:58. | ||
Since taking office, the coalition have cut university funding, the | :24:58. | :25:01. | |
education maintenance allowance and even housing benefit for young | :25:01. | :25:06. | |
people. But more than one million of them are unemployed and 25 % are | :25:06. | :25:10. | |
still living with their parents. It sounds to me like they are the ones | :25:10. | :25:12. | |
that need the help, especially when you consider that over the course | :25:13. | :25:16. | |
of their tax Payne lives the younger generation will have to pay | :25:16. | :25:24. | |
for all of those juicy benefits for the older, richer generation. Next | :25:24. | :25:29. | |
month the deal not commission will present the Government with plans | :25:29. | :25:32. | |
for the provision of elderly care in Britain. We do not know what | :25:32. | :25:35. | |
they will say, but the man in charge is already indicating that | :25:35. | :25:39. | |
he thinks that care for the elderly is the poor relation of Britain's | :25:39. | :25:44. | |
welfare state. With so many people worried about how they will pay for | :25:44. | :25:47. | |
care and the quality of care they receive in their old age, I | :25:47. | :25:50. | |
understand something must be done, but my point is simple. Britain | :25:50. | :25:55. | |
can't continue to hand out benefits to the elderly without a thought of | :25:55. | :25:58. | |
the younger, poorer people who will have to pay for it. It is like | :25:58. | :26:01. | |
giving one generation a big long holiday and not inviting the rest | :26:01. | :26:11. | |
:26:11. | :26:12. | ||
So Ed Howker, what have you got against the old? I have got nothing | :26:12. | :26:20. | |
against the old. OK. Fine, good. Isn't the reason politicians pay | :26:20. | :26:26. | |
attention to this is that they are very involved in society? | :26:26. | :26:30. | |
Absolutely right. So, what is wrong with that. If they are willing to | :26:30. | :26:34. | |
pay an active part in society and those in the voting age are not, so | :26:35. | :26:39. | |
be it? We have this thing called representative democracy, and the | :26:39. | :26:42. | |
whole idea is that you try and govern on behalf of all people | :26:42. | :26:46. | |
whether they voted for you or not or whether you have curried favour | :26:46. | :26:52. | |
with them or not. My problem with this agenda which seeks to give | :26:52. | :26:56. | |
huge swathes of benefits, often completely unnecessary ones, to an | :26:56. | :27:01. | |
older generation, is that we have a huge quantity of young people in | :27:01. | :27:05. | |
Britain hurting very badly and not enough is being done to address | :27:05. | :27:11. | |
their needs. But also we talk about this all the time. There are many | :27:11. | :27:14. | |
people in the older bracket who are hurting as well who have paid their | :27:14. | :27:18. | |
dues, possibly 14 wars, and they have done their bit for this | :27:18. | :27:24. | |
country. -- possibly fault in a war. Let's be polemic. You have a young | :27:24. | :27:27. | |
generation who may be could do without this attitude that | :27:27. | :27:31. | |
everything will come on a plate, but you have to scrimp and save | :27:31. | :27:36. | |
like their grandparents did. course, there are complex things | :27:36. | :27:39. | |
about how the Government approach is the idea of debt with younger | :27:39. | :27:44. | |
people. There is a lot of talk about making them save by also | :27:44. | :27:48. | |
making them get into debt if they want to be educated, so that is a | :27:48. | :27:52. | |
mixed message. But there is a practical issue that young people | :27:52. | :27:57. | |
face in the last 20 or 30 years of their working lives, a huge fiscal | :27:57. | :28:01. | |
pressure that comes from underfunded pensions, a doubling of | :28:01. | :28:06. | |
health care costs in the next 10 or 20 years, and there is no way | :28:06. | :28:09. | |
whatsoever that we have thought seriously about the mechanisms that | :28:09. | :28:13. | |
will be needed for them to pay for that whilst maintaining a good | :28:14. | :28:16. | |
quality of a welfare system throughout the generations, and | :28:16. | :28:21. | |
that is my problem. So perhaps they make rise up in anger and change | :28:21. | :28:26. | |
the political system? Isn't that what democracy is about? I don't | :28:26. | :28:29. | |
think we necessarily need a revolution. It is a very 1960s way | :28:29. | :28:32. | |
of looking at how the young people engage in politics. It is just | :28:32. | :28:39. | |
making sure that the basic polities address their needs. A such an | :28:39. | :28:42. | |
interesting subject, but very squeezed because of the time. Do | :28:42. | :28:49. | |
come back again and talk to worse. While we have been on air, the | :28:49. | :28:54. | |
Greek banks and possibly three French banks are exposed to that | :28:54. | :28:57. | |
debt from Greece and they could be another sovereign bank crisis. | :28:57. | :29:01. | |
Thank you to Hazel and Cecil. No time to pick the winner for guess | :29:02. | :29:06. |