Browse content similar to 20/06/2011. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Afternoon, folks, welcome to the Daily Politics. European finance | :00:23. | :00:26. | |
ministers meeting in Luxembourg have agreed in principle to provide | :00:26. | :00:33. | |
Greece with emergency funding of �10 billion. But they say it's | :00:33. | :00:36. | |
dependent on the Greek parliament approving a new round of austerity | :00:36. | :00:42. | |
measures. We'll be asking, are they just throwing good money after bad? | :00:42. | :00:45. | |
Ministers are to stick to their timetable for changing the state | :00:45. | :00:51. | |
pension age despite being urged to think again by backbench MPs. | :00:51. | :00:54. | |
Are free schools all the rage? The Government hopes so! It says more | :00:54. | :00:58. | |
than 100 of them will open next year run by parents, teachers and | :00:58. | :01:03. | |
charities. And gone but in no way forgotten. | :01:03. | :01:05. | |
We'll be discussing the legacy of the anti-war campaigner Brian Haw, | :01:05. | :01:15. | |
:01:15. | :01:17. | ||
All that in the next half hour. And with us for the whole programme | :01:17. | :01:20. | |
today is the former deputy headteacher who was forced to | :01:20. | :01:23. | |
resign from her job following a speech she made to the Conservative | :01:23. | :01:31. | |
Party conference, Katharine Birbalsingh. Welcome back. First | :01:31. | :01:33. | |
this morning, let's talk about pensions because MPs unhappy at the | :01:33. | :01:36. | |
Government's plans to raise the retirement age for men and women to | :01:36. | :01:40. | |
66 by 2020 will get a chance to voice their opposition when the | :01:40. | :01:49. | |
Commons debates the Pensions Bill today. Critics say the move is | :01:49. | :01:52. | |
unfair on around 330,000 women who will be forced to work for two | :01:52. | :01:58. | |
years longer than they expected. But ministers are, so far, sticking | :01:58. | :02:01. | |
to their timetable. Our correspondent Jo Coburn can tell us | :02:01. | :02:11. | |
:02:11. | :02:12. | ||
more. We are talking about quite a bit of opposition. Yes, cross-party | :02:12. | :02:17. | |
opposition. Not many Tory MPs, 61 signatures for an early day motion | :02:17. | :02:23. | |
to force a debate on this issue. A significant number of Lib Dem and | :02:23. | :02:27. | |
Labour MPs who are leading this campaign are saying remitted -- | :02:27. | :02:31. | |
women will be targeted unfairly because of the equalisation of the | :02:31. | :02:35. | |
state pension age for men and women. They have already agreed to | :02:35. | :02:41. | |
increase the state pension age to 66 by 2020, but in order that men | :02:41. | :02:44. | |
and women will be able to get to that stage at the same time, they | :02:44. | :02:49. | |
will have to increase the rate for women and there will be a certain | :02:49. | :02:54. | |
group of women who will not be able to claim their pension until 65 by | :02:54. | :03:00. | |
2018 and they will be unfairly poor. I heard that Iain Duncan Smith | :03:00. | :03:05. | |
himself has expressed reservations to George Osborne. In view of the | :03:05. | :03:10. | |
fact that even the welfare Tsar is uncomfortable, how long can they | :03:10. | :03:14. | |
stick to that possession -- position? Iain Duncan Smith will be | :03:14. | :03:18. | |
uncomfortable, they will be uncomfortable that the idea that | :03:18. | :03:24. | |
women might be unfairly targeted. What we don't have is the exact | :03:24. | :03:28. | |
figure, how much money would have to be thrown at this in order to | :03:28. | :03:32. | |
subsidise and pay the women they might lose out over those 18 months. | :03:32. | :03:36. | |
But some of the figures have been something like �3 billion. The | :03:36. | :03:39. | |
Treasury would have to come up with that and at the moment I don't get | :03:39. | :03:43. | |
the sense they are keen to do so. That doesn't mean they have closed | :03:43. | :03:48. | |
the door on this, but the issue will be raised this afternoon and | :03:48. | :03:50. | |
it will be interesting to see whether they give any indication | :03:50. | :03:56. | |
that in a few years they might tried to find the money. Thank you. | :03:56. | :04:00. | |
Looking forward to working until 66? I have to say I do love | :04:00. | :04:08. | |
teaching. I would happily teach forever. 66 might be too early! | :04:08. | :04:12. | |
Indeed, it would be for me. But I realise that is not necessarily the | :04:12. | :04:17. | |
normal response from people. Clearly it is a concern. People | :04:17. | :04:26. | |
having to work longer. But at the same time, our population... We | :04:26. | :04:31. | |
can't have it all. We have to live within our means. People are living | :04:31. | :04:35. | |
longer. I was about to say unfortunately, it is not | :04:35. | :04:40. | |
unfortunate, but there are consequences. His there anybody in | :04:40. | :04:43. | |
the teaching profession in the state schools, you have got to | :04:43. | :04:49. | |
retire at the retirement age? you can continue working longer if | :04:49. | :04:57. | |
you want. In teaching it is always said that the longer you wait to | :04:57. | :05:01. | |
retire, the more likely you want to die earlier. It is such a stressful | :05:01. | :05:06. | |
job and it takes so much out of you that when you stop suddenly, you | :05:06. | :05:16. | |
:05:16. | :05:19. | ||
are in a bit of shock. Treadmill. Yes, you have to go on forever. | :05:19. | :05:21. | |
The Greek debt crisis and the austerity measures that the | :05:21. | :05:24. | |
government is trying to implement make the situation in Britain look | :05:24. | :05:27. | |
like a walk in the park. The government in Athens says it will | :05:27. | :05:30. | |
run out of funds within weeks unless it receives the next tranche | :05:30. | :05:33. | |
of money from the bailout agreed last year. EU finance ministers | :05:33. | :05:35. | |
meeting in Luxembourg have postponed a final decision until | :05:35. | :05:38. | |
the Greek parliament agrees a new round of spending cuts. But they | :05:38. | :05:41. | |
will also need to negotiate a second bailout to prevent a default | :05:41. | :05:47. | |
further down the line. Not everyone, though, is happy about more public | :05:47. | :05:50. | |
money being committed. Anita has more. | :05:50. | :05:54. | |
Are we just days away from a Greek tragedy? Last year, economic | :05:54. | :05:57. | |
collapse was averted by a 110 billion euro bailout from the EU | :05:57. | :06:03. | |
and the IMF. The Greek government, led by George Papandreou, promised | :06:03. | :06:07. | |
to implement tough austerity measures. Now, though, a new | :06:07. | :06:11. | |
bailout is needed to stop Greece defaulting on its debt - maybe a | :06:11. | :06:17. | |
further 120 billion euros. Most of the money would have to be put up | :06:17. | :06:20. | |
by other countries in the eurozone. But German Chancellor, Angela | :06:20. | :06:23. | |
Merkel, says that private investors should take some of the pain too, | :06:23. | :06:27. | |
perhaps by rolling over loans. And she may seek the participation of | :06:27. | :06:32. | |
countries outside the eurozone, including the UK. Boris Johnson | :06:32. | :06:36. | |
says that Greece should be allowed to default and leave the eurozone. | :06:36. | :06:43. | |
Agreeing a second bailout would be "chucking good money after bad". | :06:43. | :06:46. | |
George Osborne insists that Britain should not have to contribute to a | :06:46. | :06:51. | |
new rescue. But the Government fears that a Greek default could | :06:51. | :06:55. | |
spark off a new banking crisis. With financial markets unsettled by | :06:55. | :06:58. | |
the uncertainty, a decision will have to be taken soon one way or | :06:58. | :07:02. | |
the other. I'm joined now by our correspondent Steve Evans, who's in | :07:02. | :07:07. | |
Luxembourg where EU finance ministers have been meeting. Maybe | :07:07. | :07:15. | |
you can tell us firstly which way... What have they decided? They have | :07:16. | :07:19. | |
decided, given the money -- give them the money, but only if they do | :07:19. | :07:23. | |
the tough bit. They are not going to say you can have the money and | :07:23. | :07:27. | |
we will wait to see what happens with the austerity measures. | :07:27. | :07:31. | |
Basically, you can have the money, but you need to do it. There is a | :07:31. | :07:35. | |
game of bluff going on because the eurozone ministers' meeting in | :07:36. | :07:40. | |
Luxembourg know quite well that Greece defaulting would be a crisis | :07:40. | :07:45. | |
for all of them. Greece has strong cards to pay, the eurozone | :07:45. | :07:49. | |
ministers clearly have strong cards to pay in that they have the money. | :07:49. | :07:53. | |
There has a lot of bluff going on, and arm-twisting, with the IMF | :07:53. | :07:57. | |
saying you need to put up your bit of the money from the eurozone to | :07:57. | :08:03. | |
keep this thing afloat. The great unspoken argument is, would it be | :08:03. | :08:09. | |
better if Greece simply was cut loose from the eurozone? There is | :08:09. | :08:12. | |
the difficulty of that for the people here because that would | :08:12. | :08:16. | |
precipitate a banking crisis in Greece and that would probably | :08:16. | :08:19. | |
precipitate banking crisis in other countries, perhaps including | :08:19. | :08:27. | |
Britain. It is very much being shouted from the hilltops here, | :08:27. | :08:31. | |
Boris Johnson saying cut them loose, let's not give a penny to them. How | :08:31. | :08:39. | |
could Britain be pressured to do it and are they likely to do it? | :08:39. | :08:43. | |
pressure would be if there were a crisis, let's imagine them acquire | :08:43. | :08:47. | |
a Greek default, the Greek banking system collapsed, the Greek | :08:47. | :08:51. | |
government could not repay its debts, you then look at the banks | :08:51. | :08:55. | |
which have lent to Greece, they are primarily France, another to | :08:55. | :08:59. | |
Germany, number three Britain. All of those banks would be going to | :08:59. | :09:03. | |
their governments and saying, remember Lehman Brothers clumber -- | :09:04. | :09:08. | |
Lehman Brothers? Are you going to let us for? What are you going to | :09:09. | :09:12. | |
do about it? That is the way the real politics would unfold in that | :09:12. | :09:17. | |
extreme situation. It is not certain to happen. Maybe the | :09:17. | :09:21. | |
austerity will go through, maybe the Greek economy will start to | :09:21. | :09:27. | |
sort itself out, maybe productivity will rise and maybe this drip-drip | :09:27. | :09:33. | |
approach of the bail-out will work. But the possibility, the scenario | :09:33. | :09:38. | |
at the darkest end of it, is a very serious one. If British people | :09:38. | :09:41. | |
think we are not in the eurozone so it doesn't affect us, the view here | :09:42. | :09:48. | |
would be they are wrong. Thank you for that. | :09:48. | :09:51. | |
With us now is Professor Costas Meghir, an economist from the | :09:51. | :09:53. | |
University College London, and Sajid Javid, the Bromsgrove MP and | :09:53. | :10:03. | |
:10:03. | :10:06. | ||
a former director at Deutsche Bank. That -- it is the German banks who | :10:06. | :10:10. | |
have the second biggest exposure to Greek debt after the French banks. | :10:10. | :10:16. | |
They have already had 110 billion euros. And they need more, a lot | :10:16. | :10:21. | |
more. Yet the Greek financial situation is just as bad as when | :10:21. | :10:26. | |
they got there first bail-out. Why throw good money after bad? In my | :10:27. | :10:30. | |
opinion Greece will almost certainly do fault, it is the | :10:30. | :10:34. | |
question of time. It is a matter of months rather than years. The key | :10:34. | :10:38. | |
issue is because time is so important, if more time can be | :10:38. | :10:41. | |
purchased to help banks and other investors to prepare for this, it | :10:41. | :10:46. | |
will benefit everyone, including the UK economy. They are not going | :10:46. | :10:51. | |
slow in Europe to prepare for a default, they are going slow to try | :10:51. | :10:57. | |
to negotiate the right terms in the hope of avoiding a default. In my | :10:57. | :10:59. | |
opinion they went the vault -- avoid the default. The whole | :11:00. | :11:03. | |
European project was based on political dishonesty in the first | :11:03. | :11:08. | |
place and that has been continued by European leaders. Greece can't | :11:08. | :11:16. | |
recover unless it leaves the euro, but it is better that more time is | :11:16. | :11:20. | |
purchased so we avoid a Lehman Brothers scenario. Many observers | :11:20. | :11:24. | |
believe Greece doesn't suffer from a liquidity problem, it is not | :11:24. | :11:27. | |
short of cash and they need money just to tide it over until the | :11:27. | :11:33. | |
money comes in, it is effectively bust and no amount of bail-out can | :11:33. | :11:37. | |
rescue a bust economy. That is absolutely true. Greece is | :11:37. | :11:43. | |
basically insolvent because of deep structural problems. The Labour | :11:43. | :11:47. | |
markets and product markets and other aspects of the Greek economy | :11:47. | :11:50. | |
have been not only neglected, but going worse over the last 30 years. | :11:50. | :11:59. | |
What is happening now is that the Europeans have to think through the | :11:59. | :12:04. | |
whole euro project. The 12 billion that Greece needs now to remain | :12:04. | :12:07. | |
afloat will be forthcoming and I think there will be a vote of | :12:08. | :12:11. | |
confidence passing on Tuesday because nobody is ready for an | :12:11. | :12:16. | |
early summer apocalyptic scenario. But then they will have to think, | :12:16. | :12:20. | |
they need to realise Greece is insolvent and the need to decide | :12:20. | :12:27. | |
what to do. They Iraq two options. One is they decide, OK, the | :12:27. | :12:33. | |
eurozone project is very important, we will go to some kind of fiscal | :12:33. | :12:36. | |
union and we will forgive part of Greek debt against tough reforms | :12:36. | :12:42. | |
and the market. Germans telling you how to run your fiscal policy. | :12:42. | :12:45. | |
Exactly, or so the structure of the economy, like markets, | :12:45. | :12:51. | |
privatisations. They would do that for you as well? That will go down | :12:51. | :12:59. | |
a bomb in Athens! That is only one option. The other option is that | :12:59. | :13:03. | |
Greece leaves the euro, it makes the debt into Crapper, which is a | :13:03. | :13:11. | |
default. Your debt would still be in euros. -- drachma. If Greece | :13:11. | :13:16. | |
left the euro, it would do nominate its debt in drachmas and default. A | :13:16. | :13:22. | |
its current debt distilling euros. All Greek debt, 90% of group debt | :13:22. | :13:27. | |
is under Greek law. Effectively nobody can stop them from | :13:27. | :13:32. | |
dominating it in another currency. It will be a default, but it makes | :13:32. | :13:38. | |
no sense for Greece to before start of the euro without nominating... | :13:38. | :13:43. | |
The EU and the IMF are saying we will probably give you this but we | :13:43. | :13:48. | |
want see evidence that things will change. I read this morning that | :13:48. | :13:51. | |
this privatisation programme that is supposed to raise so much money | :13:51. | :13:58. | |
has not even got off the ground. Nothing has been sold. And that in | :13:58. | :14:02. | |
an economy dominated by the public sector, so far not a single civil | :14:02. | :14:07. | |
servant has lost their job. Yes. is not happening. You're absolutely | :14:07. | :14:12. | |
right and that is exactly the problem. You're asking what should | :14:12. | :14:22. | |
:14:22. | :14:23. | ||
happen. I think what should happen is that we need to start a very | :14:23. | :14:28. | |
deep programme of reforms. You are talking about privatisations, but | :14:28. | :14:32. | |
only a public finance issue, at the same time you need to change the | :14:32. | :14:35. | |
structure of the economy, you need to increase competition and change | :14:35. | :14:41. | |
the legal structure. Griggs paying tax would be interesting. Then | :14:41. | :14:46. | |
there is another misconception. That the constitution does not | :14:46. | :14:51. | |
allow firing civil servants, it does. There should be a big reform? | :14:51. | :14:56. | |
Yes. Does the British government have a policy? I think it does. We | :14:56. | :15:02. | |
have to act in our best interests. What is the policy? It is in our | :15:02. | :15:05. | |
best interests that there is no immediate collapse of Greeks and | :15:05. | :15:10. | |
other peripheral countries in the euro countries. We trade over half | :15:10. | :15:16. | |
our exports with the eurozone. Almost 500% of GDP, which leads to | :15:16. | :15:20. | |
greater exposure to the eurozone. We are in favour of a second juror | :15:20. | :15:30. | |
K bailout should be managed by the eurozone countries. I would not | :15:30. | :15:34. | |
like to see us participate in a second bailout. I did not as | :15:34. | :15:38. | |
whether we should participate. Regardless of whether we | :15:38. | :15:43. | |
participate or not, is the British government in favour of a second | :15:43. | :15:47. | |
the EU bailout? I cannot speak for the British government, but what is | :15:47. | :15:50. | |
interesting is that there was a meeting of European ministers | :15:50. | :15:53. | |
yesterday, and I gather the Chancellor did not attend. I think | :15:53. | :15:57. | |
if he had, they would have expected him to bring his cheque from. That | :15:57. | :16:02. | |
speaks for itself. If we step back from this, the euro was always a | :16:02. | :16:06. | |
bankruptcy machine. The causes may be different in the different | :16:06. | :16:10. | |
countries, but the trigger point is exactly the same, and that is the | :16:10. | :16:15. | |
euro. Fundamentally, the countries in their need to move to fiscal | :16:15. | :16:20. | |
union all we need to get rid of it. The Chancellor had an important | :16:20. | :16:27. | |
event to attend, his 40th birthday! Have before tax money to be used to | :16:27. | :16:33. | |
bail out Greece? -- happy for your tax money. I like people, schools | :16:33. | :16:38. | |
and countries to be held to account. I will take that as a no! Thank you | :16:38. | :16:44. | |
for coming back. His story is going to run all through the summer, | :16:44. | :16:47. | |
particularly because the Government's majority in Greece is | :16:47. | :16:51. | |
about five seats. This morning, Michael Gove gave a | :16:51. | :16:57. | |
speech at a think tank just around the corner. Katharine was there. He | :16:57. | :17:01. | |
was crowing about the success of his free schools policy with about | :17:01. | :17:05. | |
20 to open in September. We have been following one, a primary | :17:05. | :17:08. | |
Academy in Berkshire, and Max Cotton has been to meet the new | :17:08. | :17:14. | |
teachers who have been appointed since we were last there. | :17:15. | :17:18. | |
This is Langley Hall, and we have been watching it transformed from | :17:18. | :17:23. | |
the grain of an idea into a real school opening its doors after the | :17:23. | :17:27. | |
summer holidays. Like other free schools, this one will be funded | :17:27. | :17:32. | |
out of general taxation, but they are controlled and run by private | :17:32. | :17:36. | |
companies or individuals. Since we were last here, the teaching staff | :17:36. | :17:41. | |
have been hired, and while the building work at the school goes on | :17:41. | :17:44. | |
in preparation for the arrival of Langley Hall's first pupils, we | :17:44. | :17:49. | |
have gone to the local pub. In primary school tradition, we | :17:49. | :17:55. | |
started with a bit of show and tell. Priya has been teaching for 12 | :17:55. | :18:00. | |
years and will be concentrating on the youngest pupils at Langley Hall. | :18:00. | :18:05. | |
Brendan has been teaching for 11 years, and his expertise is in | :18:05. | :18:11. | |
special needs. Elaine has been a teacher for more than 30 years, and | :18:11. | :18:16. | |
her subject is music. I want to ask you all, what has attracted you to | :18:16. | :18:20. | |
this school? Many things. The main thing is the ethos of the school | :18:20. | :18:25. | |
matches my home. The Health is preparing children for life. -- | :18:25. | :18:28. | |
ethos. We will be doing that through looking at life skills, | :18:28. | :18:34. | |
which is very much in tune with the early years curriculum. It is new, | :18:34. | :18:38. | |
exciting we are experiencing it from the start, and we have got a | :18:38. | :18:42. | |
great team of people who are determined to make it work. Have | :18:42. | :18:45. | |
you been able to pay for it to light out of the curriculum? Is | :18:45. | :18:50. | |
that a good thing? Yes. It is choosing the things that are right | :18:50. | :18:54. | |
for the children we are going to be teaching. When I first started | :18:54. | :18:59. | |
teaching 32 years ago, it was a more free form of education. I saw | :18:59. | :19:02. | |
the national curriculum cumin and teachers being channelled down a | :19:02. | :19:07. | |
specific path. There are aspects of the natural curriculum which we are | :19:07. | :19:10. | |
going to take, and we want to take them on because they are right, but | :19:10. | :19:14. | |
certain parts we can now tailor to what we want to do and what is | :19:14. | :19:23. | |
right for the children. Is it elitist? It is not selective. The | :19:23. | :19:28. | |
admissions criteria are in line with admissions criteria for other | :19:28. | :19:32. | |
local authority schools. You have got people leaving independent | :19:32. | :19:37. | |
private schools to come to this school, haven't you? Only 25%, the | :19:37. | :19:42. | |
rest are coming from state schools, so it is a great mixture. And that | :19:42. | :19:45. | |
is not elitism, it is parents choosing to send their children to | :19:45. | :19:50. | |
the school. They are not being selected as such. They have to be | :19:50. | :19:54. | |
alive at the same admissions criteria as anyone else applying. - | :19:54. | :19:58. | |
- in line. And you're all being paid much more money, is that | :19:58. | :20:05. | |
right? Hardly! We are being paid in line with standard pay scales. | :20:05. | :20:11. | |
it is the same Quetta mark you are not in it for the money? No. | :20:11. | :20:17. | |
are all idealists customer TS. As many as 20 free schools will be | :20:18. | :20:23. | |
opening in September. The take-up next it could be over 200. | :20:23. | :20:28. | |
Our guest is planning to set up a free school in south London, and in | :20:28. | :20:31. | |
the Middlesbrough studio is the Labour education spokesman, Ian | :20:31. | :20:36. | |
Wright. You are setting up any borough of Lambeth, I think. That | :20:36. | :20:42. | |
is right. If the local education authority, which I assume controls | :20:42. | :20:46. | |
most of the schools in that area, is it helping or hindering? Well, | :20:46. | :20:50. | |
at the moment we are in discussions with the local authority, and I'm | :20:50. | :20:55. | |
hoping that they will be held for. What you need from them? Well, the | :20:55. | :20:59. | |
building that we would like is an old school building, and it belongs | :20:59. | :21:04. | |
to the council. It would be for the council to negotiate with the | :21:04. | :21:07. | |
Department for Education and when the time comes. So they could | :21:07. | :21:12. | |
refuse to let you have the building. You have another one? No. We would | :21:12. | :21:17. | |
be in trouble. How much money when you get from the government to run | :21:17. | :21:23. | |
the school? Well, schools are funded on a pay-per-view basis. -- | :21:23. | :21:33. | |
:21:33. | :21:35. | ||
Our intention is to build up the number of pupils every year. | :21:36. | :21:40. | |
main advantage that these schools have is that they are independent | :21:40. | :21:45. | |
of the local authority, so people think. But the school that you got | :21:45. | :21:49. | |
into so much trouble in after a speech was independent of the local | :21:49. | :21:54. | |
authority as well, wasn't it? It was an academy. You are right to | :21:54. | :21:57. | |
say that they will be run in the same way that academies are run. | :21:57. | :22:01. | |
They are exactly the same, really. The difference is that a free | :22:01. | :22:08. | |
school is set up by people in the community, and what academy status | :22:08. | :22:11. | |
for free school status in says Gould is the freedom to be ever to | :22:11. | :22:17. | |
make decisions. Just like that teacher was saying, certain parts | :22:17. | :22:20. | |
of the curriculum are useful for their population of children, and | :22:20. | :22:26. | |
some parts are not. It seems silly that people from the local | :22:26. | :22:28. | |
authority who do not know about teaching should come and tell | :22:28. | :22:33. | |
teachers how to teach, or tell the governors have to govern. Let me go | :22:33. | :22:38. | |
to Ian Wright. We have not got much time, I am afraid, but we will come | :22:38. | :22:44. | |
back to the subject. I'm interested, for our viewers and for myself, his | :22:44. | :22:49. | |
Labour for or against establishing these free schools? Good morning. | :22:49. | :22:52. | |
Labour is against the establishment of free schools as national policy, | :22:52. | :22:58. | |
I hope that is fairly clear. It is fairly clear, and your boss, Andy | :22:58. | :23:02. | |
Burnham, when asked on another BBC shows said, yes, I am against them | :23:02. | :23:08. | |
as well, but he then said that he rather liked the look of a free | :23:08. | :23:13. | |
school being started up by a Labour supporter, Peter Hyman. I think | :23:13. | :23:17. | |
Andy, to be fair to him, is very pragmatic. He recognises that when | :23:18. | :23:22. | |
we get back into power in 2015, the educational landscape will be very | :23:22. | :23:27. | |
different. He also appreciates that many parents and people setting of | :23:27. | :23:29. | |
free schools have the best interests of pupils and children at | :23:30. | :23:35. | |
heart. He has to be pragmatic, quite rightly, because we cannot | :23:35. | :23:38. | |
support that kind of blanket statement. But as a national policy, | :23:38. | :23:43. | |
Labour is opposed to free schools. So why has the support of Peter | :23:43. | :23:47. | |
Hyman setting up a pre-school? is right in thinking that, | :23:47. | :23:52. | |
depending on local circumstances, what is available and turns of a | :23:52. | :23:58. | |
specific area, different approaches are needed. -- in terms of. So you | :23:58. | :24:01. | |
may be for or against them depending on local circumstances. | :24:01. | :24:05. | |
think I have been clear in saying that as a national policy we are | :24:05. | :24:09. | |
against it. If it is national policy to be against them, why are | :24:09. | :24:13. | |
you in favour of one set up by a Labour adviser? You are posing one | :24:14. | :24:19. | |
set up by a Tory sympathiser, Toby Young. Why you in favour of Peter | :24:19. | :24:25. | |
Hyman's? We are opposed to it as a national policy. Far too much time | :24:25. | :24:29. | |
and attention has been devoted by Michael Gove and Department for | :24:29. | :24:32. | |
Education officials on the matter, and we should have a policy for all | :24:32. | :24:35. | |
children, to stretch all children to have the ambition for every | :24:35. | :24:40. | |
single child going through the process, not just for a narrow | :24:40. | :24:44. | |
elite. If and when you get back into power, will you abolish free | :24:44. | :24:51. | |
schools? No, and I think that is where Andy is being pragmatic. | :24:51. | :24:55. | |
Let's look at local circumstances and see how these schools are doing. | :24:55. | :24:59. | |
Thank you for joining us from Middlesbrough, thank you very much. | :24:59. | :25:04. | |
Now, you may agree or disagree with what he stood for, but there was no | :25:04. | :25:07. | |
doubting that Brian Haw made his mark on Westminster through 10 | :25:07. | :25:10. | |
years of protest in Parliament Square. His death was announced at | :25:10. | :25:14. | |
the weekend. Adam has been having a look back at his life. | :25:14. | :25:18. | |
Anyone who came to Westminster, whether they were working or | :25:18. | :25:22. | |
visiting as a tourist, saw this, the protests started by Brian Haw. | :25:23. | :25:26. | |
He first pitched up in 2001. He was angry about sanctions being imposed | :25:26. | :25:32. | |
on Iraq, but his protests grew in the wake of the war on terror, the | :25:32. | :25:36. | |
war in Afghanistan and the war against Saddam Hussein. In his ten- | :25:36. | :25:39. | |
year vigil, he around three different prime ministers, often | :25:39. | :25:43. | |
with a megaphone, until it was taken away from him. The local MP | :25:43. | :25:47. | |
said that Brian Haw enjoyed being a pain in the neck. He will be | :25:47. | :25:50. | |
pleased to know that his anarchic spirit lives on amongst his | :25:50. | :25:55. | |
supporters. I have said to the skies that, out of respect I will | :25:55. | :26:00. | |
not put anything... But some of them were willing to speak to us. | :26:00. | :26:04. | |
have come to erect a blue plaque for Brian Haw to commemorate the | :26:04. | :26:08. | |
sterling work that he did for the peace movement in Parliament Square | :26:08. | :26:12. | |
through the years, through wind, rain and snow. There were numerous | :26:12. | :26:17. | |
attempts to remove them, including a law which bans demonstrations at | :26:17. | :26:20. | |
Westminster, but he often found that as a peaceful protest of the | :26:20. | :26:25. | |
law was on his side. Last year, a new group of activists this to up, | :26:25. | :26:29. | |
leading to serious divisions among the parliaments were protesters. -- | :26:29. | :26:33. | |
pitched up. The big question is what happens now that Brian Haw has | :26:33. | :26:37. | |
passed away? The local council and many MPs, while up holding the | :26:37. | :26:41. | |
right to protest, would be glad if this was no longer a permanent | :26:41. | :26:46. | |
feature on their doorstep. Jenny Jones from the Green Party is | :26:46. | :26:50. | |
with us, very much a Brian Haw supporter. What was he like? You | :26:50. | :26:55. | |
knew him, didn't you? He was clearly very brave, very committed, | :26:55. | :26:58. | |
and I think millions of people in Britain will think he was right in | :26:58. | :27:03. | |
trying to bring our troops home from Iraq and Afghanistan. He was | :27:03. | :27:07. | |
political Marmite, wasn't he? Some people objective to the spectacle | :27:07. | :27:10. | |
that he created in Parliament Square. There was a running joke | :27:10. | :27:14. | |
that he ought to have a designer in on his placards and then he might | :27:14. | :27:19. | |
be more acceptable to the establishment. He is one of those | :27:19. | :27:22. | |
great British eccentrics, and we should remember him like that, an | :27:22. | :27:26. | |
incredibly brave man. Although it did not make much difference in the | :27:26. | :27:29. | |
end, did it? How much to these protests make a difference? It is | :27:30. | :27:33. | |
difficult to say, because they colour the whole political | :27:33. | :27:37. | |
landscape in a certain way, so it is difficult to know. But he was | :27:37. | :27:40. | |
somebody who put his life on the line. You could say he was another | :27:40. | :27:44. | |
casualty of war, because living outside for 10 years cannot be good | :27:44. | :27:49. | |
for your health. Should the protesters now move away? I do not | :27:49. | :27:53. | |
think so. I think they have a right to be there and make their point. | :27:53. | :27:57. | |
When the climate can was there, it was amazing how many tourists | :27:57. | :28:01. | |
thought it was part of the two has seen in London. But Westminster | :28:01. | :28:07. | |
council now has a real duty and should probably put paid blue | :28:07. | :28:11. | |
plaque there for Brian Haw. heard that argument, fixture, I saw, | :28:11. | :28:16. | |
where do you stand? I am all for the blue plaque. I am not sure I am | :28:16. | :28:21. | |
all the protesters. On the other hand, there is the right to protest. | :28:21. | :28:25. | |
It is a difficult one, I think I might sit on the fence, but I am | :28:25. | :28:29. | |
all for the blue plaque. Some may say 90 need a lifetime of | :28:29. | :28:35. | |
achievement for that 10 years of protest may not qualify. That is it | :28:35. | :28:39. | |
for today. Thank you to our guests, especially Katharine for being | :28:39. | :28:43. | |
guest of the day. We are back at 11:30am tomorrow, the early start | :28:43. | :28:47. |