17/06/2011 Daily Politics


17/06/2011

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Welcome to the Daily Politics. Public-sector workers are told you

:00:32.:00:35.

will work until you are 66 and most will have to pay more into your

:00:35.:00:40.

pension. Will it be music to their ears? With the number of strikes

:00:40.:00:44.

over pensions looming, the TUC accuses the Government of an

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inflammatory intervention. The Greek Prime Minister wants to

:00:48.:00:52.

steer through a new period of austerity measures.

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Would you tie the knot in London Zoo or maybe your local football

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club? We will be talking about the marriage Act of 1994.

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All that's coming up in the next half-an-hour, and with me his

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Philip Collins and Sue Cameron. This morning, let's turn our eyes

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to Greece, because the Greek Prime Minister, George Papandreou has

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carried out a Government reshuffle in his latest attempt to tackle

:01:24.:01:29.

financial crisis. Rehoused replace the finance minister who drew up

:01:29.:01:34.

the austerity measures. Changing the finance minister and having a

:01:34.:01:37.

cabinet reshuffle, will it do it in terms of persuading the public they

:01:37.:01:41.

must take on board these measures? I doubt it, it is a desperate

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measure. Not many other things are available to him. The Greek

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Government needs to put through an austerity package, it is hard to

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see what they can do other than that. They have been spending too

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much for too long. They have to find a way to get these cuts, or

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some cuts of that magnitude through. Whether there are any politicians

:02:03.:02:07.

in the Greek governing party who will sufficiently persuade the

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public this is something that needs to happen, is open to doubt.

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they don't, which you could argue seems likely, a have just been

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talking there has been a press conference with Nicolas Sarkozy and

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Angela Merkel from Germany, and it looks like an 80% false of

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defaulting -- 80% chance of defaulting on their debts, will

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there be another banking crisis? That is ultimately at risk.

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Everybody has a different view of it. The great public, I do not

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think they will accept this. They have been on the streets and it is

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the middle classes, not just the usual suspects and the lefties.

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Even within Europe, there are very different views as to what should

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happen. The German public are deeply suspicious of handing over

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lots more money to Greece. Yet, the head of the ECB seems to be saying,

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if you'd taken over all view, it's not quite so bad! Which seems

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incredible, unless there is an over-reaction. One of the issues is

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about the exposure of other banks in other countries who are already

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under pressure like Portugal, Ireland and Spain. If their

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exposure is so great and Greece defaults, it is logical to think

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the banks will be under threat? They will, and the French and

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German banks in the worst-case scenario, and through them, the

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British banks as well. This comes back to the European Central Bank

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which has committed a substantial sum to Greece. If it defaults, it

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is in trouble. The European Central Bank would be in trouble with the

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default on the great debt. Becomes back to the IMF who have given a

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lot of money and it comes back to Germany who are the principal

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driver of the single currency and the single beneficiary of the

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single currency. German public opinion is as every bit important

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as Greek opinion. Also it comes back to the survival of the Euro

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and whether Greece can stay in it? A lot of people are saying, quite

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rightly I think, you can sometimes give them 10 billion to get them

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through to the middle of next week, but in the end their economy, the

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Greece economy isn't as competitive as places like Germany. It is not

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in the same league. Can you keep on giving them a bit more, doing a

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sticking-plaster? In the end wouldn't it be better to take a

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really tough line one way or another? We will find out what

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happens in the next few weeks. Let's turn to public sector

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pensions because it has been a source of some dispute between the

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Government and the unions. Last year the Government asked Lord

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Hutton to conduct a review of public sector pensions. Recommended

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employee contributions should be increased, that the pension age

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should rise and final salary schemes should be replaced with a

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career average schemes. George Osborne announce plans to raise

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pension contributions by 3% in the Budget. But unions have complained

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it amounts to a pay cut. This week, teachers and civil servants voted

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for strike action. Today, Danny Alexander will confirm details of

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the Government's proposals. Final salary deals will go under pension

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age for public sector workers will rise to 66 in line with the state

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pension age. He will criticise union bosses who have called

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strikes. He will also say the lowest paid workers won't have to

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pay higher contributions, but some on higher salaries could see their

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contributions rising by more than 3%. With Nick positions in progress,

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unions have complain he is jumping the gun. Mr Alexander says he is

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offering a fair deal, but many in the public sector don't see it that

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way. We want a good pension for people who work in the public

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sector, who devote their lives for teaching our children, looking

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after us when we are sick or policing our community. But we also

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want something that is fair for the taxpayer. It is a good thing people

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are living longer, but it has made it more expensive to provide

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pensions. It is also the case the amount the taxpayer, the rest of

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the population who are not working in the public sector, pays for

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these pensions has increased. was the Chancellor, George Osborne.

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I am joined by a fit assistant general sector of Unison and

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Matthew Hancock, MP. The Government is expecting public sector workers

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to pay increased contributions at a time in the middle of a two year

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pay fees, inflation is at just under 4%, how can they afford that

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increased contribution? We know these times are difficult and there

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is a combination of the short-term problem in the public finances

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where we are paying �120 million of interest every day. Also a longer

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term problem, which we have to deal with, thankfully, good news we are

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living longer. So pensions are more expensive. You have made the

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distinction, the longer term issue of affordable pensions and the

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current problem with the deficit. Low-paid workers and the unions

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articulating the argument, why are you making low-paid workers bear

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the brunt of paying off the deficit, as they see it as a result of the

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banking crisis now, when things are difficult? Under these proposals,

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as you saw in the package, the lowest paid... Only under 18,000.

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The lowest paid wouldn't be asked to contribute more and there is

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progress city built into this precursor -- proposal. It is worth

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explaining to review its -- viewers, ending a final-salary scheme and

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moving it to career average, means those who are less well paid 10 to

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get better pensions on average. We are still talking about retaining

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the defined benefit system, which is among stab vest in the world. So,

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public sector workers who work hard and contribute will still be able

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to get among the best pensions available in the country. But they

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will have to work six years longer, increase their pension

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contributions up to something like three and 5%, it is quite a

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dramatic increase. You're talking about people in the public sector

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and the Government has talked about them, as if history has not played

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any part, historically they have had lower wages. They have made a

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decision to take public sector jobs because they wanted to do public

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service and the pensions were good. But now they will be cut? It is

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still going to be the best pension in the country available in the

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public sector. But I come back to the central point, we are living

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longer. Pensions are more expensive. As you said, public sector workers

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may have to work longer, but we're all going to have to do that,

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because we are all living longer and that is a good thing. These are

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changes proposed to deal with what is essentially a good thing, living

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longer. Do you accept that point, they will still be the best

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pensions, the public sector pensions? Times have changed,

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people are living longer and pensions have to adapt? If is a

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shame this is happening on the airwaves when we had negotiated

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process going on, and it would have been nice if we could have had

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those discussions in a negotiation. The unions have been out there

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saying we are balloting our members before the decisions have taken

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place, it is the same thing? few look at some of the discussions,

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we want some principles that take us into central discussions, such

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as the health service and the local Government scheme, both of which

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are schemes include surplus. 130 billion in the local Government

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scheme, 2 billion in the Government's scheme. The

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contribution members are being asked to make to their pension

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won't go into their pensions, it is going straight to the Treasury.

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This is taxing our members. Importantly, if they are going to

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reduce the contribution rate for low-paid workers, the vast majority

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of low-paid workers are contracted out and in the discussions we are

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having at the moment, those people won't be allowed to have access to

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the pension scheme. That is almost a quarter of all local Government

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staff. These are things you're bringing up the negotiations.

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George Osborne has said they are extremely close to a deal, is that

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how you see it? We are not close to a deal. What we are trying to do is

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have some principles that we can take into the central discussions.

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It will be those discussions that has the deal. We cannot agree in

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principle for low-paid workers who have been outsourced to the private

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sector, not to have admissibility to those pensions. It is a red line,

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so there is more talks to have around that. There is an acceptance

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final-salary schemes have to go, is that accepted by your union? It is

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not accepted by our union, it is a matter for the health trade unions

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to discuss in their pension the decisions with the Civil Service.

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It is not something we have agreed. We are not there and we hope our

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talks can go one throughout June and into July. What I would like to

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see the Treasury do, and this is such an important point, his take

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some advice. I am sure they have taken actuarially advice? I don't

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think they have, they are being advised by economists. If those

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services that have been opted-out or privatise are not allowed to

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contribute to the pensions, the pension schemes themselves will

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fail. And that is very, very important. The other important

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elements of this area of discussion, which is the average wage earner in

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the public sector is able to contribute, they won't be able to

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afford to. These schemes will fail and if they were taking actuarial

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advice they would know that. that position realistic? I think

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perhaps despite today come and there have been a few trade unions

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clearly upset at what the Chancellor and Daniel exam there

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have been saying, but I do think behind the scenes there has been a

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lot more closeness in any decisions. -- Daniel Alexander. I think the

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Government is right, I have heard it from trade union people, too. As

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long as they can keep the talks going and there is room to

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discussion. I don't think, some of the things clearly have got to

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happen, they have got to pay more, they cannot have that much

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difference between the private and public sector, it is not real life.

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But the speed in which they do it, there is a lot of things that could

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be negotiated. My guess would be behind the scenes they will keep

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the lid decisions going. Nobody is going to go on strike in the

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summer! What would beep the point of a teacher going on strike in the

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summer? The point is, there are certain things they have not

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accepted, but the union's new about increasing the pension age for

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public-sector workers, they knew contributions would go up. Throwing

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hands in the air, is it going to wash? There is a certain amount of

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both sides bouncing each other. The knitter see Asians have been evenly

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tempered, it has been cut from what I hear of it. It is a shame some

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unions have said they will strike, and it is a shame the Government

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had responded by bringing forward some of the knitters emissions.

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That hasn't helped, Matthew Hancock, in terms of process and how you

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handle these things. Why has the Government, why have ministers set

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out their position before it has been styled and sealed with the

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unions? I am not part of them goes emissions, but they know the

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Government takes them seriously. Most unions are participating in

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negotiations in good faith will stop there is a couple of unions

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who have unfortunately, called for strike action whilst the

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negotiations are still on. I don't see how that helps. For instance,

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Unison and the Government have been negotiating in good faith and it is

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important they continue. I come back to the big picture point,

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which is we have a difficult, challenging me to overcome and

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continuing with those knitters emissions can be nothing but a good

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thing. On one of the points, if you do extend the working age to 66,

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there is a knock on effect, an implication for young people

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getting into the job market. Bearing in mind the high youth

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unemployment. If people keep in their jobs or those years, what

:15:31.:15:41.
:15:41.:15:46.

Are you saying that we should not live longer?! I really have to say,

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we have got nurses, ambulance staff, people who are using their brains,

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but also their muscle to work with patients. What will we do with

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these staff? It is not stopping at 66. It is open-ended. It will move

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to 67 and then 68. Imagine working at 68 years of age, turning up to

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an emergency situation. We are living longer, but we are still

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suffering with our eyesight, away hearing. We are not as fit as you

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would like to portray. For example, we have obesity, diabetes... Public

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sector workers would argue that they are still working. There is no

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private sector pension scheme which is open-ended. This is an open-

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ended element that is unacceptable. I have to stop you there. Thank you

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very much. Now, once upon a time, long, long ago - and some of you

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may even remember - you could only get married in a church or registry

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office. But now you can tie the knot in some pretty obscure places,

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ranging from HMS Belfast on the Thames to your favourite football

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club or museum. That's all down to one man's work. Gyles has been to

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I could tell you that the man we are featuring today has changed the

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rules to give wild animals the vote, but that is not true. He actually

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changed the rules so that those who wanted to could get married not in

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a church or a registry office, but anywhere they light, like London

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Zoo. In there, you could have about 90 guests. You would come on to

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this patio and have drinks and canapes. Then you have this

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fabulous outback experience. Gyles Brandreth, when you came up with

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this plan, was this what you had in mind? I always want to get married

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myself in the Sahara desert, and this is almost as good. You can get

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married and find that you have emus and Wallabies as witnesses. What a

:17:48.:17:54.

way to start married life. I emus aside, what first got you involved

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in changing the Marriage Act? constituent of mine came to see me

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one day. She told me that she and a castle, and she had wedding

:18:06.:18:10.

receptions there. Why couldn't she have weddings there? She said, not

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everybody is religious. We have this beautiful constituency. You

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can get married in Chester Cathedral, but not in Chester

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Castle. It does not seem fair. And I thought my goodness, this

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constituent has got it right. And I was determined to do something

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about it. How did you get it through? With difficulty. I put it

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in at a private member's bill, and did not get my way. So I put it in

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as a private member's bill, but not one that would be given government

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time. I had to persuade people that this was necessary. The Government

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thought, maybe it is not a bad idea. Mr Major, then prime minister,

:18:48.:18:52.

liked what he called bite-size chunks of policy. And I gave the

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impression to the opposition that they should support it because the

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Government was really against it. I am not sure if that was a

:18:58.:19:02.

respectable thing to do, but I got everybody on board. So you drove

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this through pretty much alone? Totally alone. In some of the

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debates, I was the only person in the chamber. It was me, the

:19:11.:19:16.

Government whip on the front bench, and the Speaker. That was it. The

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problem with a private member's bill that does not have the support

:19:21.:19:28.

of the Government and everybody is that one person crying object can

:19:28.:19:33.

scupper your chances. On one of those days, I was thinking the

:19:33.:19:37.

chamber was empty, but an enemy was lurking between the benches. When I

:19:37.:19:42.

came to propose it, I would hear a voice going "object!". And then it

:19:42.:19:47.

would be put -- postponed to another day. But eventually, I

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succeeded in passing the 1994 Marriage Act. As many as are of

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that opinion, say aye. To the contrary, no. It is fun to think

:19:57.:20:02.

that in years to come, people getting married, that has been made

:20:02.:20:06.

possible by my little piece of legislation. I am hoping that all

:20:06.:20:10.

over the land, they will be raising their champagne glasses after they

:20:10.:20:13.

have tested one another and the mother of the bride and the

:20:13.:20:17.

bridesmaids, and eventually they will get round to me.

:20:17.:20:22.

This is all I have ever done. I am the person who gave the world the

:20:22.:20:26.

1994 Marriage Act. That is my achievement, and I am proud of it.

:20:26.:20:31.

It has she changed the shape and face of marriage. It has made

:20:31.:20:33.

weddings better and happier and brighter for people. In the early

:20:34.:20:37.

days, people did raise a glass to me. Occasionally, they would even

:20:37.:20:42.

sent me a piece of wedding cake. Feel free to revive that tradition.

:20:42.:20:50.

He is very proud, Gyles Brandreth. And told that was the emu enclosure

:20:50.:20:54.

they were standing in. Was this just frippery, despite

:20:54.:20:59.

that explanation about it having an impact, or did it matter?

:20:59.:21:04.

matters to the quality of people's lives. A lot of people do not

:21:04.:21:08.

necessarily want to get married in a church. And some people think the

:21:08.:21:12.

registry office is a bit scruffy, as they often were and still are.

:21:12.:21:18.

So you have much more choice. Your wedding day is, for most people,

:21:18.:21:21.

one of the most important days of your life. Being able to choose

:21:21.:21:28.

where you have it makes a real difference. In a way, so many laws

:21:28.:21:32.

that are endlessly passed through Parliament better day, churning out

:21:32.:21:35.

this stuff, and it does not have any impact. Either it doesn't make

:21:35.:21:39.

a difference or it has a bad effect. The last Labour government passed a

:21:39.:21:45.

new criminal offence for every day they were in office from 1997 to

:21:45.:21:49.

last year. I will not ask you to name them all. Did you get married

:21:49.:21:54.

anywhere interesting? I got married twice, actually. Although only to

:21:54.:22:02.

one person. My wife is from an Indian family, so we set up a

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reception in a garden square and had an Indian wedding first. I

:22:04.:22:09.

don't know if that was possible prior to Gyles Brandreth. Probably

:22:09.:22:13.

not. I may have had to thank all to blame for my marriage, depending on

:22:13.:22:17.

your point of view. Then we trooped round the corner to have an

:22:17.:22:22.

Anglican ceremony in the Church nearby. So we did it twice. If I

:22:22.:22:27.

have Gyles Brandreth to thank for that, let's raise a glass. Raise a

:22:28.:22:32.

cup of tea to Gyles Brandreth. And the fact that it was a private

:22:32.:22:36.

member's bill, that does not happen often, does it? Quite a lot of them

:22:37.:22:43.

just get dropped, unless the government goes a long and says,

:22:43.:22:46.

perhaps you would like to shove this through for us. There are a

:22:46.:22:52.

few things that stand out which are less happy. But it did make a huge

:22:52.:22:56.

difference. David Steel's abortion Bill killed off backstreet

:22:57.:23:02.

abortions overnight. It has been a busy week. Royal

:23:02.:23:06.

Ascot, or should that be bashcot? Andy Murray won something.

:23:06.:23:10.

Christine Billy Kee and Frank Lampard got engaged, but what has

:23:10.:23:17.

been happening in politics? Let's look back.

:23:18.:23:21.

The Government binned its plans to offer financial incentives to

:23:21.:23:25.

councils in England to reinstate weekly rubbish collections, an

:23:25.:23:28.

issue close to Communities Secretary Eric Pickles's heart. The

:23:28.:23:32.

NHS Future Forum delivered its findings, which though embraced by

:23:32.:23:35.

the Prime Minister and his deputy, did not win them immediate plaudits

:23:35.:23:40.

from everyone. Why is it that we are told to walk

:23:40.:23:43.

like this? The unions flexed their muscles,

:23:43.:23:48.

threatening to bring up to 750,000 public sector workers out on strike

:23:48.:23:52.

over pension changes. Also throwing his weight around,

:23:52.:23:55.

education Secretary Michael Gove announced the takeover of 200 pre-

:23:55.:23:59.

schools. These are schools where young people are leaving without a

:23:59.:24:03.

secure foundation in reading, writing and maths for as a feeling

:24:03.:24:06.

the heat, but staying in the kitchen - Labour leader Ed Miliband

:24:06.:24:09.

sought to silence his critics with a speech positioning himself and

:24:09.:24:15.

his party. We will never encourage a sense of

:24:15.:24:18.

responsibility if society is becoming more and more unfair and

:24:18.:24:23.

more divided. Let's stay with Ed Miliband, the

:24:23.:24:27.

Labour leader. Rumbles of discontent, reports of a rift with

:24:27.:24:31.

his brother David. Is he in trouble? He is in less trouble

:24:32.:24:36.

after this week. He has had a good week. Are you talking about Prime

:24:36.:24:43.

Minister's questions? Yes. I think he made a good speech, his best

:24:43.:24:47.

speech as leader on Monday. It had a real argument to it. It is

:24:47.:24:51.

important that he makes the same speech another ten times, because

:24:51.:24:55.

that needs to become his story. Responsibility is a good story, and

:24:55.:25:00.

he needs to become associated with it. He should drop the idea of the

:25:00.:25:07.

squeezed middle -- he should drop in the idea of the squeezed middle.

:25:07.:25:12.

He has something interesting to say, and that is crucial. If Labour

:25:12.:25:15.

backbenchers think their leader has something interesting to say which

:25:15.:25:20.

is a good critic of the Government, which this is, he will be fine.

:25:20.:25:25.

he got a narrative now? There has been a lot of talk in Labour

:25:25.:25:29.

circles, with MPs been divided about whether they should do a

:25:29.:25:35.

mayor car park on the deficit and say we overspent. Would that help

:25:35.:25:41.

further, or is it a -- irrelevant? So of the angst against him, he had

:25:41.:25:46.

a bad week last week, but some of it is overdone. The guy has only

:25:46.:25:51.

been in the job eight months. If you think back to the Tories after

:25:51.:25:56.

they lost in 1997, they have William Hague, who was a brilliant

:25:57.:26:00.

speaker. Brilliant performance after brilliant performers, but did

:26:00.:26:08.

they do well at the following election? No. It would also be

:26:08.:26:11.

absolutely loopy for them, even Labour at its balmiest, the longest

:26:12.:26:16.

suicide note in history under Michael Foot, to change leaders now.

:26:16.:26:21.

To an extent, it is a storm in a teacup. I agree. He has done a much

:26:21.:26:30.

better job this week, and he needs to still discontent. Is it helpful

:26:30.:26:34.

that the former Prime Minister Tony Blair comes out a couple of times

:26:34.:26:37.

this week to attack the direction that Mr Miliband is taking the

:26:37.:26:43.

party? They don't agree, there is no doubt about that. Tony Blair has

:26:43.:26:47.

something to teach the Labour Party as the only one to win three

:26:47.:26:53.

elections for it. So his council is worth listening to. The crucial

:26:53.:26:57.

question is the economic one. My view is that they should take some

:26:57.:27:05.

responsibility for what happened, but they are not going to it.

:27:05.:27:10.

thought that was some people's view. But it is not the leadership's view.

:27:10.:27:14.

Ed Balls made that clear in his lecture. Ed Miliband is clear that

:27:14.:27:18.

he does not think Labour spent too much. He does not think that was a

:27:18.:27:22.

contributory factor to the deficit. They will not change their policy

:27:22.:27:26.

on that. It is all very well for people like me to demand that they

:27:26.:27:30.

do, but they are not going to for us but usually on a Friday, we like

:27:30.:27:32.

to end the programme with our favourite pictures of the week.

:27:32.:27:35.

Today we couldn't resist showing you what happened when a news

:27:35.:27:38.

presenter in Australia tried to crack a joke with the Dalai Lama

:27:38.:27:43.

ahead of his appearance on Channel 9's Today programme.

:27:43.:27:51.

So are the Dalai Lama walks into a pizza shop. Pizza? Pizza shop.

:27:51.:27:58.

pizza shop, and says "Can you make me one with everything?" What is

:27:58.:28:08.

that? I am sorry. Do you know what I mean? "Can you make me one with

:28:08.:28:18.
:28:18.:28:24.

everything?" theoretically possible. He knew it wouldn't work, so why

:28:24.:28:29.

did he do it? A salutary warning to anyone trying to be funny. That is

:28:29.:28:32.

why we don't do jokes on this programme. That is all for this

:28:32.:28:37.

week. I will be back on Sunday with The Politics Show at midday on BBC

:28:37.:28:40.

One. Amongst my guests will be former Labour minister Lord Hutton,

:28:40.:28:44.

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