22/06/2011 Daily Politics


22/06/2011

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Morning, folks, this is the Daily Politics.

:00:18.:00:24.

It's one year since Boy George unveiled his emergency budget.

:00:24.:00:27.

We'll be looking at how "austerity Britain" is shaping up. The

:00:27.:00:30.

Chancellor is spending more than his predecessor and he's racked up

:00:30.:00:37.

a record deficit for the first two months of the new financial year.

:00:38.:00:43.

You'd better shape up cos you need a loan. Greek jokes aside, things

:00:43.:00:47.

are looking serious in the eurozone. We'll have the latest.

:00:47.:00:51.

Order, order, in the House of Lords! The Upper House is looking

:00:51.:00:55.

for a new speaker. If you want the job, you propbably need to be posh

:00:55.:01:03.

and you have until tomorrow to apply. -- probably.

:01:03.:01:06.

And just how sexist is the beautiful game? We'll be talking to

:01:06.:01:13.

one MP who's not happy with the FA. Maturity and common sense go hand

:01:13.:01:17.

in hand in the adult game, and me playing for the parliamentary

:01:17.:01:20.

football team, or any other lady playing in a park match, should not

:01:20.:01:28.

be caught up in rules designed to Yes, all that and more coming up in

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the next 90 minutes of cartoon capers. And with us for the

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duration, Westminster's answer to Statler and Waldorf. They're a

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couple of Muppets, you know! The former Conservative Leader, Michael

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Howard - he's now a Lord. And the former Chancellor, Alistair Darling.

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He's still a humble MP. Welcome to you both. Now first this morning,

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we're not one to labour a point, but we know a U-turn when we see

:01:54.:01:57.

one. And yesterday, despite bluff to the contrary, the Government

:01:57.:02:02.

announced yet another U-turn, this time over sentencing policy. We

:02:02.:02:05.

covered it on the programme yesterday. This is what the Justice

:02:05.:02:15.
:02:15.:02:17.

Secretary, Ken Clarke, had to say I have done many U-turns in my time

:02:17.:02:20.

and they should be done with purpose and panache when you have

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to do them. I actually don't think this is a U-turn at all. I don't.

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Let me explain. The opposition front bench has taken some sort of

:02:39.:02:43.

tickling powder! I have been listening with bated breath for the

:02:43.:02:48.

best part of 20 years to the Secretary of State. Michael Howard,

:02:48.:02:55.

did you feel a tiny bit sorry for him? Well, I don't think... He

:02:56.:03:00.

doesn't need... Good question! doesn't need people to feel sorry

:03:00.:03:04.

for him, that would be the last thing he wanted. I welcome the

:03:04.:03:10.

changes, I think they are good for the victims and potential victims,

:03:10.:03:14.

and good for the integrity of the criminal justice system. Do we

:03:14.:03:18.

resigned ourselves to having jails that are stuffed to come as a day?

:03:18.:03:27.

It doesn't. A -- stuffed to capacity. When I said prison works,

:03:27.:03:31.

we build more prisons and build more capacity. One of the problems

:03:31.:03:35.

now is that although Labour talked tough on crime and the prison

:03:36.:03:40.

population continued to increase, the capacity was not increased.

:03:40.:03:44.

There seems to be a game going on between the two camps, tougher and

:03:44.:03:50.

tougher, who is the winner at the moment? Crime did fall by the time

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we left office so that was good. Prison is part of that. I think

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what matters is what works and Ken Clarke did come up with some

:04:00.:04:04.

interesting ideas when he first announced this policy. If we can

:04:04.:04:08.

stop people going to prison in the first place, there is a lot of

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evidence that once people start going to prison, they will go back

:04:12.:04:19.

again and again and again. This isn't about -- this is an about

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turn. David Cameron said yesterday it was a U-turn. What is more

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interesting in some ways, certainly as we are about to discuss the

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economy, if I was in the Treasury at the moment, I would say that is

:04:32.:04:36.

�100 million gone. If you add that to what has happened on the NHS,

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where there has been a spectacular U-turn and we have a dog's

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breakfast of an administration, or the Forestry sell-off, the Treasury

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must be worried that the savings they were promised a few months ago

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will be increasingly difficult to get. I get the sense that you feel

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it was a missed opportunity, you were quite sympathetic to the

:04:58.:05:03.

points of view put forward by Ken Clarke, am I right? Back in the

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days when I used to practise law, when you were in the High Court and

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someone was found guilty and the convictions were read out, you

:05:11.:05:14.

would cost -- often find this person would start defending in

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their teens, they were sent to young offenders' institution...

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you bring yourself to say Ken Clarke was right? No, he made a

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mess of what he was doing in the sense of the way he presented the

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policy. Substance was fine, presentation was clumsy? If people

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have offended, if they have done something wrong, they need to go to

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prison and we need to be tough. There was tough on crime, and also

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tough on the causes of crime, and trying to divert people out of that

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prison system makes sense. On the issue of savings, he still has to

:05:52.:05:57.

come up with a substantial saving. Where will he get it from? I think

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there are things that can be looked at. He is making some changes to

:06:03.:06:09.

the legal-aid system. I think there are certain areas where it would be

:06:09.:06:17.

possible to save more money on legal aid. The practice of giving

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legal aid for criminal proceedings in Scotland is a bit more stringent

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than that which exists in England and there are different

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interpretations... Will that balance the figure? It would help.

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There would be other efficiency savings that could be produced. I

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am not sitting with the Justice Department's budget. You know the

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terrain very well. �100 million is a lot of money. We will leave it

:06:51.:06:54.

there. Now, this time last year, the

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Chancellor, George Osborne, was dusting down his red box and

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preparing to deliver his emergency Budget. The economy one year on is

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the topic of the opposition day debate in the Commons this

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afternoon. So how is Boy George's austerity plan shaping up? Over to

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you, Anita. Exactly one year ago today, George

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Osborne delivered the coalition government's emergency Budget. He

:07:20.:07:23.

warned that it was happening at a moment when "fear about the

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sustainability of sovereign debt was the greatest risk" to economic

:07:26.:07:32.

recovery. He needed to be "tough" to get the deficit under control.

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But how strong has he really been? At the time of the emergency Budget,

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the forecast for public sector borrowing in 2010-11 was �149

:07:39.:07:49.
:07:49.:07:49.

billion. And the outcome - �143 billion. So on that score the

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economy looks on track. But what about public borrowing this year? A

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year ago, the forecast was �116 billion. That was subsequently

:07:59.:08:09.
:08:09.:08:09.

increased to �122 billion. And with figures for two months of the

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financial year in so far, it's by no means clear that even the higher

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figure will be right. Net borrowing in April and May last year was

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�25.9 billion. And in the same months this year, �27.4 billion. So

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borrowing is actually higher so far this year than last year. And in

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the medium term, getting the deficit down requires economic

:08:30.:08:37.

growth. The emergency Budget forecast growth in 2011 of 2.3%.

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The forecast now, 1.7%, according the Office for Budget

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Responsibility. And even lower according to some independent

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forecasters. The Chancellor says he has no Plan B, but is his Plan A

:08:52.:09:02.
:09:02.:09:05.

Thank you. We have got a former Chancellor and the former Shadow

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Chancellor with us. Let me start with Michael Howard. Spending is

:09:08.:09:12.

still rising, the deficit is increasing and the national debt is

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soaring, what is going right? Everyone agrees the cuts have yet

:09:17.:09:22.

to be put into effect and yet to make an impact. I don't think you

:09:22.:09:26.

can make judgments on a month-by- month basis. This is a five-year

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project and I think you only have to look at the way in which the

:09:30.:09:34.

markets are treating British credibility to see that it is on

:09:34.:09:41.

track. How borrowing rate is 0.25% above Germany's. In terms of

:09:41.:09:45.

credibility in the markets it is working. We have had very good

:09:45.:09:49.

employment figures, half a million extra jobs created in the last year.

:09:49.:09:55.

There is much to be pleased about, but we had the most awful

:09:55.:09:58.

inheritance, as you know, and I think it was necessary to take the

:09:58.:10:03.

action which the Government is taking to deal with that. He has

:10:03.:10:07.

been chancellor for 12 months and every month during that 12 months

:10:07.:10:10.

he has spent more than the preceding year and are Gordon Brown

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and Alistair Darling. Be Kizzy it takes time for the measures to be

:10:15.:10:19.

put into effect. -- because it takes time. Many require

:10:19.:10:25.

legislation. You can't expect but I ducked the pain is still to come?

:10:25.:10:31.

In many respects a package right. It is interesting, isn't it, that

:10:31.:10:36.

what the opposition are saying is borrow more. It will be interesting

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to see whether Alastair agrees with Ed Balls's latest proposition,

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which is that the VAT increase should be reversed. Are you taking

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away my gunpowder? Teeing it up for me. I want to come to that in a

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minute. If, as we know from the figures, I have them here, as I

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said to Michael Howard, spending is still rising, up 5%, the deficit is

:11:03.:11:07.

still increasing and the national debt is going through the roof, the

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Ed Balls criticisms that the economy slowed because we are

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cutting too fast too soon isn't borne out by the figures. I think

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there is something bigger at play. Ever since the new government was

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elected from last May, they have been saying that there will be

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substantial cuts and it is probably the fear of what is about to happen

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that is depressing economic activity. Why? If you are a

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businessman, would you think about taking on more people at the

:11:37.:11:41.

moment? You probably wouldn't because you would say everybody is

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telling me how bad it is going to be, there will be less spending

:11:44.:11:48.

power in the economy. A lot of commentators have made the point

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that you can actually talk down activity. Michael is right, when

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people say one or two commentators uttering the review of what has

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happened over the last 12 months and they are saying it has not been

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so bad. A lot of the actual cuts were only supposed to come in from

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this April and they will gradually build up. I do agree with Michael,

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and if the figures had been the other way I would make this point,

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you have to watch month-by-month figures. But there is now a growing

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consensus that growth will be less than George Osborne said 12 months

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ago, the IMF has said if this carries on, a Plan B will have to

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be looked at. If you get low growth, you will get higher borrowing and

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higher debt and that is now a real possibility. But this year, 2011-

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2012, George Osborne plans to cut public spending by the 0.6%. How

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much less... How much less would you have cut it by? As I have said

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you, it is a matter of judgement as to how fast you bring down the

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deficit. 0.6% is not fast. Expressing it percentage terms it

:12:59.:13:04.

might not seem that way. Let's go back ticking clock's problem. He

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has to find another �100 million. He will not find it through getting

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people out of prisons. A government and it spends on pensions, public

:13:18.:13:21.

services, defence and so on. As anyone who has ever run a

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department will tell you, �100 million... The big problem is the

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Government's strategy from the start was to eliminate the

:13:30.:13:33.

structural deficit during the course of this Parliament. The risk

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is if you go too fast -- too far too fast, you suppress growth and

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it becomes more difficult to get your borrowing ground -- down.

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you agree with Ed Balls that VAT should be cut temporarily back to

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17.5%? What he is doing is simply giving an example of the sort of

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thing the IMF was talking about. He is talking about tax breaks for

:13:59.:14:03.

people as well as perhaps more quantitative easing if that is

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necessary. He is not alone in that. Does he have your support been

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saying VAT should be cut? He has my complete support in saying that

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George Osborne's approach runs the risk of derailing the recovery.

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Come on, you're just an MP now, you are not in government. An honest

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answer would be appreciated. Do you agree with Ed Balls that VAT should

:14:29.:14:34.

be cut to 17.5%? It is a matter of judgement as to what you actually

:14:34.:14:40.

do. I will not second-guess everything Ed Balls does. I am not

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asking you to second guess, I am asking whether you agree or

:14:44.:14:49.

disagree. I am surprised by your reluctance, it is a simple question.

:14:49.:14:53.

I agree with his analysis that if you take too much money out of the

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economy, you run the risk of developing the economy. That has

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always been my position. He is not alone in that, other commentators

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are making the same point. You seem reluctant to support Ed Balls on

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this full up I am not. Then support him! I do support him... He he will

:15:11.:15:17.

not saying you support his specific plan to cut VAT to 17 were 5%.

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is a matter of judgement as to what you do to support the economy. I

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support the critique he has mounted in relation to that and I will not

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second-guess the individual judgments. It sounds like a no.

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:15:43.:15:44.

It sounds like that to me, but viewers will make up their minds.

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The Office for Budget Responsibility has downgraded the

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growth forecasts for this year and next year. One of the main reasons

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why it is the incredible squeeze on living standards at the moment. The

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poorer you are, the tighter the squeeze. There is a danger that

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this is a vicious circle and you won't get the growth that you need.

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You have to take tough action to deal with the problems we inherited.

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No doubt you are going to ask about Greece later on in the programme.

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Greece is an abject lesson in what happens if the Government spends

:16:22.:16:26.

more than it can afford. You then have a horrible consequences, which

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we can see. Back in 2005, in the 2005 general election, I warned

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that the Labour Government was spending too much. More than the

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country could afford. I spelled out exactly what cuts in spending

:16:41.:16:50.

should take place. I want to move on. You mentioned Greece, so let's

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move to my favourite musical. won't start singing. As you have

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been hearing, whatever the trials and tribulations have been it for

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the UK economy, spare a thought for Greece. Last night, George

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Papandreou won a confidence vote in the Parliament. The struggle has

:17:09.:17:14.

started. He is seeking to push through further unpopular austerity

:17:14.:17:18.

measures to avoid defaulting on a country's debts. As MPs cast their

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votes, thousands of protesters gathered to show their disquiet,

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putting it mildly. Tim Willcox is in Athens. He survived that touch

:17:29.:17:32.

and go vote. That does not guarantee that he will be able to

:17:32.:17:37.

pass the austerity measures. are right. Most commentators

:17:37.:17:41.

thought that he would pass the confidence vote last night and in

:17:41.:17:45.

the end he did with the majority of 12. Far more difficult for him and

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a far more difficult thing politically is to push through the

:17:48.:17:53.

latest austerity package next week. 28 billion euros worth of austerity

:17:53.:17:58.

measures, involving the selling-off of state assets, utilities like

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electricity and water and this caught behind me. -- Court. There

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will be more job losses and higher taxes as well. The protesters were

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accepting that the vote would go his way, but they are adamant that

:18:15.:18:21.

they don't want to sue the state crown jewels being sold off to the

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highest bidder just to pay the interest on the debts that they

:18:25.:18:29.

blame the eurozone for. normally see protests, and

:18:29.:18:33.

sometimes they are a vocal minority, but does this represent the mood in

:18:33.:18:39.

Greece at the moment? Not entirely. Having been here just a couple of

:18:39.:18:42.

days it is interesting. A lot of private sector workers have taken a

:18:42.:18:46.

lot of pain in the last couple of years. They have been told their

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salary will be hard, take it or leave it. Many people have suffered

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a lot. They have looked at the public sector workers and thought

:18:54.:18:58.

they have a cushy number, and that there are too many people doing not

:18:58.:19:03.

quite enough for the country. There is a divide between public sector

:19:03.:19:06.

and private sector workers here. Last night it was interesting. It

:19:06.:19:13.

was not the fat cats of the public sector losing their cushy jobs,

:19:13.:19:18.

paid well with good pensions. There were more middle-class people there,

:19:18.:19:21.

very worried about what the austerity package would mean for

:19:21.:19:25.

them. A real cross-section of people last night. No real violence,

:19:25.:19:30.

none of the anarchy that we have seen in recent weeks. The police to

:19:30.:19:35.

disperse them with tear gas. I think that George Papandreou will

:19:35.:19:38.

have a tough job on his hands to get this through. I have been

:19:38.:19:42.

speaking to the Finance Minister who took Greece into the euro in

:19:42.:19:47.

2001. He said he had no regrets about doing that. He said it was

:19:47.:19:50.

like giving a family first class tickets and I asked if they could

:19:50.:19:53.

afford it and he said they did have bought it for a while with great

:19:53.:19:57.

growth. He said that the bail out package from the IMF and the ECB

:19:57.:20:02.

was too much pitched towards austerity and not growth. That is

:20:02.:20:06.

why he thought the latest austerity package would be good for growth.

:20:06.:20:13.

Thank you very much. Very clear. While Anita was on the line to

:20:13.:20:21.

Athens, the Associated Press have reported that the German Chancellor,

:20:21.:20:25.

of course they will be the ones putting up the money if there is

:20:25.:20:28.

another bail out, Angela Merkel is warning that full-scale

:20:28.:20:33.

restructuring of Greek debt would have an controllable consequences

:20:33.:20:38.

on the financial markets. -- uncontrollable. Berlin are still

:20:38.:20:44.

holding out. We are joined by MEP, Daniel Hannan. We also have our

:20:44.:20:48.

guests of the day. Regardless of what the Chancellor is saying, is

:20:48.:20:53.

there not a widespread expectation that at the end of the day, after a

:20:53.:20:59.

second bail out, or a third, that Greece will default? An almost

:20:59.:21:03.

universal expectation. The only people that deny it, or pretend to

:21:03.:21:08.

deny it, of the eurozone finance ministers. Unbelievably they are on

:21:08.:21:13.

the verge of committing another 80 billion on top of the 110 billion

:21:13.:21:16.

euros committed 13 months ago, which we were told was a one-off to

:21:16.:21:20.

get Greece through the liquidity crisis. Those bail out have not

:21:20.:21:24.

been useless, they have been actively harmful. The result is

:21:24.:21:28.

Greece now owes more money. The debt has been spread from a small

:21:28.:21:31.

number of bankers to the taxpayer is in general. The more we defer

:21:32.:21:36.

this problem, the worse the reckoning when it comes. Greece got

:21:36.:21:41.

a massive bail out last year, 110 billion euros. Since then, the

:21:41.:21:46.

price of Greek debt has been through the roof. Greece still

:21:46.:21:49.

cannot borrow. The only people lending to the Greeks of the

:21:49.:21:57.

European Central Bank and the IMF. The price that they had to pay,

:21:57.:22:01.

cutting the size of the state, not once there was servant has lost a

:22:01.:22:07.

job. The privatisation programme, nothing has been privatised. Is it

:22:07.:22:11.

time to get real and realise we have to bite the bullet? There are

:22:11.:22:15.

two things here. Firstly, Greece has to make fundamental structural

:22:15.:22:20.

changes to the economy. The balance between public and private sector,

:22:20.:22:25.

competition and so on. It is not as simple as saying, OK, let's cast

:22:25.:22:29.

them adrift. Let the eurozone put them out. I was not saying that. I

:22:29.:22:33.

was simply saying they would have to default on the debt. As things

:22:33.:22:38.

are going at the moment, at the likelihood of practical default, in

:22:38.:22:42.

terms of running things over and extending the repayment, that looks

:22:42.:22:47.

inevitable. That is why I think it would be far better... Firstly,

:22:47.:22:51.

Greece have to play their part, but the eurozone in particular has to

:22:51.:22:55.

realise that if you have a single currency, it comes with

:22:55.:22:59.

consequences. The stronger people have to help restructure the weaker.

:22:59.:23:02.

That has appeared in the United States. Yes, but that is one

:23:02.:23:08.

country. That is right. But we have the fix that was adopted when the

:23:08.:23:11.

euro was put in place. We just about got away with it in the good

:23:11.:23:16.

times, but in bad times it is coming unstuck. That is why I have

:23:16.:23:19.

argued in my article in the Times that the eurozone has to accept

:23:19.:23:23.

that if you want a single currency to last, then you have to do

:23:23.:23:27.

something and play an active part in making the necessary changes in

:23:27.:23:31.

Greece, but not just in Greece, other countries, too. Michael

:23:31.:23:36.

Howard in his article in the Times this morning, at he asked the

:23:36.:23:42.

question of whether the eurozone could survive in its current form.

:23:42.:23:46.

He did not quite answer that but he did raise the question. What is

:23:46.:23:50.

your opinion? When you consider the future of the eurozone, you have to

:23:50.:23:53.

take into account the extent to which there is an almost, and

:23:53.:23:58.

perhaps you can delete the world almost, irrational commitment on

:23:58.:24:01.

the part of political leaders, not on the part of the people living in

:24:01.:24:05.

the eurozone, but on the part of many of their political leaders, to

:24:05.:24:10.

keep the eurozone in being as it is, regardless of the consequences.

:24:10.:24:15.

They see it as an absolute touchstone of their European dream.

:24:15.:24:21.

I fear that their countries, their populations, will play a very heavy

:24:21.:24:24.

price for this. It is the sort of thing that Daniel and I warned

:24:24.:24:29.

about all those years ago, when we were opposing our entry into the

:24:29.:24:34.

euro. One thing I want to say about what Alastair has said, he alighted

:24:34.:24:39.

at the beginning of his response to you. First of all he said EU, then

:24:39.:24:45.

he said the eurozone has to play its part. The eurozone certainly

:24:45.:24:50.

has to but the EU does not. In my article I make it clear this is

:24:50.:24:56.

about the eurozone. I have read it. 12.5 billion and all of the bail

:24:56.:25:00.

out, the European stabilisation mechanisms, which is twice as much

:25:00.:25:07.

as we saved in awe of the cuts. That is true, and also because of

:25:07.:25:11.

our IMF commitment, and as I say in the article, it is in our interests

:25:11.:25:16.

to have a stable euro. It is in our interests that European Union gets

:25:16.:25:21.

through this crisis. It might have been better if we turned the clock

:25:21.:25:25.

back 11 years, if there had been a smaller core of eurozone countries.

:25:25.:25:28.

Then they could have got into a state that others might have wanted

:25:28.:25:34.

to join. That did not happen. The problem now is that we have got

:25:34.:25:39.

Greece on the edge of default, with huge exposures to French and German

:25:39.:25:47.

banks, and other banks in Europe as well. The idea that if Greek --

:25:47.:25:54.

Greece does default, but it will be confined to Greece, and not

:25:54.:25:57.

spreading into Ireland and Portugal, that is like allowing human beings

:25:57.:26:03.

to go bust and hoping for the best. We have drawn that analogy. Let me

:26:03.:26:08.

ask you, Daniel, a lot of people is said that the single currency could

:26:08.:26:12.

not work unless there were fiscal transfers. So a single fiscal

:26:12.:26:17.

policy as well. Some people are now arguing for that. Does that put

:26:17.:26:23.

Europe at a severe Crossroads? puts it at odds with its own

:26:23.:26:32.

population, as Michael said. Rather than saying it has not been

:26:32.:26:35.

successful for European integration increase, instead they are saying

:26:35.:26:39.

it is successful and let's have more. We need fiscal union,

:26:39.:26:44.

economic union. It would be nice to hear some acknowledgement from all

:26:44.:26:47.

of the people in Britain that 10 years ago wanted to take us into

:26:47.:26:51.

the euro, which would have put us into this precise as if not worse,

:26:51.:26:55.

I have yet to hear it from Tony Blair, Nick Clegg, Chris Huhne, any

:26:56.:26:58.

of the people that sat there telling us we would be finished if

:26:58.:27:06.

we did not join. Free advice but don't hold your breath. Are you all

:27:06.:27:09.

Euro-sceptics? I am not in that camp. You were prow not to take us

:27:10.:27:18.

into the euro. -- proud not to take us into the euro. Yes, but I am not

:27:18.:27:24.

in favour of joining it. Have you ever been? No. You were in the

:27:24.:27:28.

Treasury when Gordon Brown said that everybody was in favour.

:27:28.:27:32.

have to go to PMQs and we will talk about it during that. It is time

:27:32.:27:36.

for the Guess The Year quiz. Worryingly, we have some

:27:36.:27:41.

competition. President Obama is getting in on the act. Look at this

:27:41.:27:47.

mug. That should put all of those Birthright doubts to rest. In case

:27:47.:27:53.

it does not, look at the back. That is his birth certificate. What sort

:27:53.:27:58.

of mug would not believe that? You don't want to waste your time

:27:58.:28:04.

spending $20 on one of those. What you want is one of these. I am

:28:04.:28:09.

afraid that my Paisley birth certificate is not on the back, and

:28:09.:28:13.

neither is Anita's London one. We were both born in Inner Mongolia

:28:13.:28:19.

and we will not tell you about it. And we don't want to tell you how

:28:19.:28:29.
:28:29.:28:44.

old we are! First, can you tell us # The time has come for me to hang

:28:44.:28:50.

my head in shame. Their ashes have been piled up in

:28:50.:28:57.

the amounts of Auschwitz and the fields. Their blood Christ to

:28:57.:29:07.
:29:07.:29:25.

heaven. But their voice cannot be # Just running scared.

:29:25.:29:30.

# Age place we go. ICN by parachute, the rebels have struck along the

:29:30.:29:40.
:29:40.:29:50.

coast within Havana. -- by C and by OK, to be in with any chance of

:29:50.:29:55.

winning the mug, please send your answers to this e-mail addressed.

:29:55.:30:04.

For terms and conditions, please go to the website. It is almost no day.

:30:04.:30:09.

Big Ben. That can only mean one thing, Prime Minister's Questions.

:30:09.:30:14.

Kevin Maguire from the Mirror. What does Ed Miliband go on? Which U-

:30:14.:30:19.

turn does he choose? I think you should choose military. Army, navy,

:30:19.:30:23.

air force, all attacking David Cameron. He says you do the

:30:23.:30:28.

fighting and I will do the talking. I would make David talk about

:30:28.:30:32.

defence cuts today. That would be interesting from a Labour

:30:32.:30:38.

opposition leader, arguing Tory weakness from defence. Take the

:30:38.:30:42.

battle to David Cameron. We know there is a lot of unease on the

:30:42.:30:46.

Conservative benches on those cuts. David Davies is saying that Britain

:30:46.:30:50.

is no longer a military power. wonder what has happened to the

:30:50.:30:55.

money, then. How much unease is there on the Labour benches about

:30:55.:31:03.

Miliband's personal poll ratings? His opponents that have never

:31:03.:31:06.

backed him have become more vocal and those that supported him are

:31:06.:31:12.

going quiet. Would you agree with me that whatever happens, well, as

:31:12.:31:17.

things stand at the moment, Ed Miliband will lead his party into

:31:17.:31:25.

the next election? Likely but not I was unaware of that event, but I

:31:25.:31:29.

wish you a happy anniversary. I'm sure the whole House would wish to

:31:29.:31:33.

join me in paying tribute to craftsman Andrew Found that the

:31:33.:31:38.

Royal Electrical and Mechanical Engineers, Corporal Lloyd Newell

:31:38.:31:41.

from the Parachute Regiment and private Gareth Bellingham from the

:31:41.:31:44.

3rd Battalion the Mercian Regiment. They were talented, brave and

:31:44.:31:48.

dedicated soldiers who made the bottom at sacrifice overseas for

:31:48.:31:53.

the safety of British people at home. We send out our deepest

:31:53.:31:56.

condolences to their families, friends and colleagues of Dr this

:31:56.:32:00.

morning I had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others

:32:00.:32:04.

and I shall have further such meetings later today. Kerry

:32:04.:32:09.

McCarthy. I thank the prime minister for that response and can

:32:09.:32:13.

I associate myself with the moving tributes he has just paid. A year

:32:13.:32:22.

ago with the Chancellor stood up to deliver his first Budget. Given

:32:22.:32:27.

that on the Government's own assessment, the efforts will have a

:32:27.:32:32.

statistically insignificant impact on child poverty, can I recommend

:32:32.:32:35.

the prime minister watches the BBC documentary bought kits to find out

:32:35.:32:41.

how the other half lives and can I ask him if he regrets allowing his

:32:41.:32:44.

chance that to take money away from families with children rather than

:32:44.:32:50.

the bankers who caused a crisis? High I will look at the programmes

:32:50.:32:54.

each honourable lady mentions, but even at a difficult time, this

:32:54.:32:58.

money put more money into the poorest families, we have frozen

:32:58.:33:02.

council tax and we have taken steps to help working families and the

:33:02.:33:06.

budget and the subsequent Budget, neither of them raised Child

:33:06.:33:10.

poverty because of the steps we took. We inherited a complete mess

:33:10.:33:14.

from the party opposite, but we are dealing with it in a way that

:33:14.:33:19.

protects families. Can the Prime Minister confirm that this country

:33:19.:33:24.

will not be contributing a penny towards the Greek bail-out other

:33:24.:33:28.

than what we contribute to the IMF? The honourable lady is right, we

:33:28.:33:33.

are senior members of the IMF, we sit on the IMF board, we have

:33:33.:33:39.

responsibilities as members ofs of the IMF it. We were not involved in

:33:40.:33:43.

the first Greek bail-out, we are not members of the eurozone and we

:33:43.:33:46.

will not become members of the eurozone as long as I am standing

:33:46.:33:50.

here. I don't believe the European financial mechanism should be used

:33:50.:33:53.

for Greece and we don't think that is appropriate and I don't believe

:33:53.:33:59.

that should happen. Ed Miliband. Can I join the Prime Minister in

:33:59.:34:03.

paying tribute to craftsman Andrew Found from the Royal Electrical and

:34:03.:34:07.

Mechanical Engineers, Corporal Lloyd Newell from the Parachute

:34:07.:34:10.

Regiment and private Gareth Bellingham from 3rd Battalion the

:34:10.:34:14.

Mercian Regiment. They all served their country with dedication and

:34:14.:34:19.

bravery and our hearts go out to their family and friends. Armed

:34:19.:34:23.

forces date is also coming up this Saturday and that is an opportunity

:34:23.:34:28.

to remind us all of the service that is provided by the armed

:34:28.:34:32.

forces in Afghanistan, Libya and all around the world. It is a

:34:32.:34:34.

moment to recognise the service they provide with honour and

:34:34.:34:40.

courage for our country. We support the mission in Libya, but in the

:34:40.:34:45.

last week both the First Sea Lord and the Commander in Chief Air

:34:45.:34:47.

Command have raised concerns over the prospect of an extended

:34:47.:34:52.

campaign. Can the Prime Minister take this opportunity to assure the

:34:52.:34:55.

House that sufficient resources are in place to maintain Britain's part

:34:55.:35:02.

in the mission at the current rate of engagement? Can I join the right

:35:02.:35:06.

honourable gentleman in paying tribute to our armed forces, I am

:35:06.:35:09.

particularly looking forward to our Armed forces Day on Saturday, when

:35:09.:35:13.

we will celebrate the contribution they make to our national life and

:35:13.:35:17.

the enormous and that they do to keep us safe. In terms of Libya,

:35:17.:35:21.

similar to the mission in Afghanistan, it is funded out of

:35:21.:35:25.

the reserve so it does not put additional pressures on the defence

:35:25.:35:29.

budget. I have sought assurances and received them from the Chief of

:35:29.:35:33.

Defence Staff General Sir David Richards that we are capable of

:35:33.:35:36.

keeping up this operation for as long as it takes. I think that is

:35:36.:35:40.

vital and I would argue that the pressure is building on Gaddafi,

:35:41.:35:45.

time is on our side, not on Gaddafi's side. When you look at

:35:45.:35:49.

what is happening in Libya, you see a strengthening of the revolt in

:35:49.:35:54.

the West, more people deserting Gaddafi's regime, growing

:35:54.:35:56.

unpopularity of his regime and other coalition holding strong,

:35:57.:36:01.

time is on our side, pressure is growing and I believe we will take

:36:02.:36:06.

it to a satisfactory conclusion. am with the Prime Minister that we

:36:06.:36:09.

should keep up the pressure on the Libyan regime and we do provide

:36:09.:36:13.

powerful support for the mission. But don't the concerns that have

:36:13.:36:18.

been expressed by members of our armed forces point to something

:36:18.:36:22.

very important, the need to look again at the Strategic Defence and

:36:22.:36:26.

Security Review precisely to make sure that we have the right

:36:26.:36:30.

capability and we have the right focus. The Foreign Secretary

:36:30.:36:36.

described the Arab Spring as a more important event and 9/11. But the

:36:36.:36:38.

National Security Strategy published last year doesn't mention

:36:38.:36:43.

Libya, Egypt or Tunisia. Isn't it right, in the light of the changes

:36:43.:36:48.

we have seen, to look again at the Strategic Defence and Security

:36:48.:36:52.

Review to make sure we can sustain the conflict in Libya? I am

:36:52.:36:56.

grateful for the question, because it is important. One of the reasons

:36:56.:37:00.

for having a National Security Council that its weekly is all the

:37:00.:37:03.

time to ask if we have the right resources, do we have the right

:37:03.:37:08.

strategy. We have had a review of the national security and Defence

:37:08.:37:13.

Review over the last year. For point I would make is this. That

:37:13.:37:15.

strategic Defence Review did actually put in place mechanisms to

:37:16.:37:20.

say we may well be fighting two conflicts at the same time fault

:37:20.:37:24.

but it also put in place the necessity of having a very flexible

:37:24.:37:27.

armed forces say exactly the sort of operations we are fighting and

:37:27.:37:32.

dealing with in Libya. The point I would also make it as it does seem

:37:32.:37:37.

to be strange, having not had one for 10 years, to then want to have

:37:37.:37:41.

two Strategic Defence Reviews within one year. We have got the

:37:41.:37:44.

right flexibilities in our armed forces, they are performing

:37:44.:37:49.

magnificently in Libya. If anything I would like to speed up the

:37:49.:37:52.

implementation of the strategic Defence Review because so much of

:37:52.:37:55.

the new equipment we are looking to have in terms of drones and things

:37:55.:38:00.

like that, it would be helpful to have them now. Far from being the

:38:00.:38:03.

wrong strategic posture, it is right and it is good we are putting

:38:03.:38:09.

it in place. I think it will come as news to the wider defence and

:38:09.:38:13.

security community that there has been a review of the original

:38:13.:38:17.

Strategic Defence and Security Review. If there has been a review

:38:17.:38:21.

since the Arab Spring took place, why doesn't the Prime Minister

:38:21.:38:25.

publish the results of that review? Let's have a consultation with the

:38:25.:38:29.

experts who know about these issues. There is clear concern across the

:38:29.:38:34.

military about some of these issues. Let me ask the Prime Minister, and

:38:34.:38:43.

let me say this to this in all sincerity. When our military chiefs

:38:43.:38:47.

raised concerns and raised legitimate concerns about the

:38:47.:38:50.

conduct of our operations, surely it is not the right thing to say

:38:50.:38:56.

you did the fighting and I will do the talking. In retrospect, was at

:38:56.:39:02.

that very crass and high-handed? -- wasn't that. I have huge respect

:39:02.:39:05.

for the people that run hour armed services, they do in incredibly

:39:05.:39:09.

good job, they are very professional and they are involved

:39:09.:39:14.

in the National Security Council, they were involved in the drawing

:39:14.:39:16.

up of the National Strategic Defence Review will but the only

:39:16.:39:19.

point I have made is when you are at war, and we are in Afghanistan

:39:19.:39:24.

and Libya, it is very important, whether you are a political or

:39:24.:39:27.

military leader, to think very carefully about what you are about

:39:27.:39:34.

to say. Can I ask the Prime Minister if he is aware of the

:39:34.:39:41.

decision abruptly made to close the Passport Office in which, which has

:39:41.:39:45.

obliged a six year-old boy to make 200 mile round trip to an interview

:39:45.:39:49.

and another constituent to travel to Newcastle. Is this acceptable?

:39:49.:39:54.

will look very closely at the point my honourable friend raises. But in

:39:54.:39:58.

the modern age, we have all sorts of ways of carrying out interviews

:39:58.:40:01.

that don't necessarily involve people having to travel to a

:40:01.:40:05.

passport my office. Her what matters is having an efficient

:40:05.:40:12.

service so people can get the documentation they need. Given the

:40:12.:40:15.

number of U-turn as the prime minister has made, including on

:40:15.:40:20.

sentencing, NHS reform, Forestry sell-off and school reforms, it is

:40:20.:40:25.

a wonder that he knows which way he is facing. But will he now have the

:40:25.:40:35.
:40:35.:40:47.

Prime minister. I did not get all of that. That is the trouble but a

:40:48.:40:51.

dark it is a reminder of the importance of government

:40:51.:40:55.

backbenchers keeping calm and quiet, not least so that prime minister

:40:55.:40:59.

Count hear properly. It would probably also help if you

:40:59.:41:04.

didn't read out the whip's it at the start of the question. I think

:41:04.:41:07.

the question was about the important point about women and

:41:07.:41:13.

pensions. What I would say is this. I do think it is right to have the

:41:13.:41:16.

equalisation of men's and women's pension age at 65 and that is going

:41:16.:41:21.

ahead. I also think it is important to raise the pension age to 66

:41:21.:41:24.

because the fact is people are living longer and our country, that

:41:24.:41:28.

is a good thing, but we have to make sure we can pay for good

:41:28.:41:31.

pensions for the future. It seems to me the alternative is to stick

:41:31.:41:35.

your head in the sand, end up with a situation where you either end up

:41:35.:41:38.

cutting pensions or building up debts for our children that would

:41:39.:41:42.

frankly irresponsible. This government is taking difficult

:41:42.:41:47.

decisions, but I think they are the right ones. Does the Prime Minister

:41:48.:41:51.

agree there is still too much homophobia in sport, especially

:41:51.:41:54.

football, and the event he is hosting later today in Downing

:41:54.:41:59.

Street will go some way to tackling that prejudice. Her I completely

:41:59.:42:03.

agree with my honourable friend and I am delighted to be hosting a

:42:03.:42:06.

party for Britain's lesbian, gay and Trans ended community in

:42:06.:42:11.

Downing Street today. One of the issues in sport is Hamp few out

:42:11.:42:16.

players there are end all sorts of sports, and I applaud those who are

:42:16.:42:20.

coming tonight, and I hope that will encourage schoolchildren to

:42:20.:42:26.

recognise homophobic bullying is completely unacceptable. If the

:42:26.:42:29.

Prime Minister is serious about tackling the issue of runaway

:42:29.:42:32.

fathers, which he said last week, why is he making it harder for

:42:32.:42:37.

single mothers to get maintenance payments by charging them extra

:42:37.:42:42.

child support? We are going to go on funding a child support a

:42:42.:42:46.

mechanism and it is right that we do. But I don't think it is wrong

:42:46.:42:50.

to ask people to make a contribution to that. Taxpayers

:42:50.:42:53.

currently are putting in a huge amount of money, they will go on

:42:53.:42:57.

putting in money, but to ask people to pay the wharves -- towards the

:42:57.:43:01.

cost does not reduce the impact of what I said. People that walk away

:43:01.:43:04.

from their responsibilities and don't fund their children, that

:43:04.:43:13.

should not be allowed to happen in Britain today. Next year, it is the

:43:13.:43:19.

centenary of the death of Captain Robert Scott on the Antarctic. Does

:43:20.:43:24.

my right honourable friend recognise that this brave, historic

:43:24.:43:29.

son of Plymouth left a significant scientific legacy which is still

:43:29.:43:34.

today helping to form the world's environmental agenda? I thank my

:43:34.:43:38.

honourable friend for raising this issue and it is an important

:43:38.:43:41.

centenary coming up and I am pleased so much is going on across

:43:41.:43:45.

the country to celebrate that, particularly in Plymouth. I would

:43:45.:43:49.

make a point that it is not just the scientific discoveries that are

:43:49.:43:55.

important, it is the inspirational figure, the adventure -- adventurer

:43:55.:43:59.

and and -- explorer, that incredible sense of adventure he

:43:59.:44:03.

had that inspires young people today. The Prime Minister has been

:44:03.:44:07.

forced to abandon his original plans on sentencing. Will he now

:44:07.:44:12.

changed his mind on the proposal to prevent police holding the DNA of

:44:12.:44:20.

those arrested but not charged with Per and he had we will look

:44:20.:44:26.

carefully at the issues of DNA. I have to say to the right honourable

:44:26.:44:31.

gentleman, we inherited an unacceptable situation with a DNA

:44:31.:44:34.

database that had grown out of control and without proper rights

:44:34.:44:38.

for people. We have put in place a better system, there is always room

:44:38.:44:42.

to see if it can be improved, but we made a big step forward from the

:44:42.:44:47.

mess we're at were left by the last government. It is a bit lace --

:44:47.:44:51.

late to be looking at the proposal, it is in the House of Commons. Let

:44:51.:44:56.

me explain his own policy to the Prime Minister. Around 5,000 people

:44:56.:45:05.

each year are arrested on suspicion of rope and not charged. -- rope. I

:45:05.:45:09.

know he wants some help from the Home Secretary. In certain cases,

:45:09.:45:13.

these individuals have gone on to commit further offences and be

:45:13.:45:18.

convicted as a result of the DNA being held on a national database.

:45:18.:45:22.

But his proposal is that for those arrested and not charge, the DNA

:45:22.:45:30.

will be disposed of straight away. discard the DNA of those arrested

:45:30.:45:39.

but not charged? By Nova mack is some concern -- I know there is

:45:39.:45:43.

some concern. The more noise, the greater the difficulty in getting

:45:43.:45:53.
:45:53.:45:55.

Order. I understand, Mr Speaker, there is some worry that in this

:45:55.:46:04.

Government we actually talk to each other! This is clearly not the case.

:46:04.:46:09.

The Shadow Chancellor raises this issue. It is perfectly clear that

:46:09.:46:12.

the Shadow Chancellor and the leader of the Labour Party don't

:46:12.:46:20.

speak to each other at all. And I have the proof, Mr Speaker. Because

:46:20.:46:24.

this week he made a huge announcement on a massive VAT cut,

:46:24.:46:31.

and yet it was only... JEERING. us focus on an answer to the

:46:31.:46:35.

question and then we will move on to the next question. Mr Ed

:46:35.:46:44.

Miliband. Mr Speaker, Mr Speaker... Let me give this lesson to the

:46:44.:46:51.

Prime Minister... STEERING. It will be better to talk to his colleagues

:46:51.:46:59.

before they perform the policy, not afterwards. Instead of listening to

:46:59.:47:04.

the Home Secretary, why not listen to the rape crisis representative?

:47:04.:47:08.

With the reporting of rapes on the increase and conviction rates still

:47:08.:47:13.

shockingly low, the evidence this database provides is vital. The

:47:13.:47:19.

more of this data we hold, the more chance we have of catching rapists.

:47:19.:47:24.

Sue says this really is a no- brainer. Mr Speaker, this is

:47:24.:47:27.

another policy on crime that is callous, not thought through and

:47:27.:47:35.

out of touch. Why doesn't he think again? First of all, if he actually

:47:35.:47:42.

understood the policy, he would no... If he understood the policy

:47:42.:47:46.

he would know that the police are allowed to apply to keep DNA on the

:47:46.:47:52.

commuter, not something that he mentioned. -- computer. He comes up

:47:52.:47:56.

with some idea, gets it completely wrong in the House of Commons, and

:47:56.:48:01.

we will find afterwards that he has given us a partial picture. That is

:48:01.:48:04.

what his questions are all about. Not surprising he does not want to

:48:04.:48:09.

talk. The hands of the Prime Minister must be heard. The Prime

:48:09.:48:14.

Minister. -- the answer. I am not surprised that he does not want to

:48:14.:48:18.

talk about the issues that his party has been putting forward this

:48:18.:48:27.

week because I don't suppose his party have talked. Order. We need

:48:27.:48:32.

to simmer down. As a parrot, I am appalled at the party opposite

:48:32.:48:38.

burgeoning our children with ever more unsolicited debts. The party

:48:38.:48:43.

opposite of putting fees for word with their tax cuts and spending

:48:43.:48:49.

commitments, on which the VAT cut is the latest. Order! The

:48:49.:48:57.

honourable gentleman will now resume his seat. Thank you, Mr

:48:57.:49:07.
:49:07.:49:11.

Speaker. There are 400 avoidable deaths of people with epilepsy and

:49:11.:49:15.

other conditions. I ask for an immediate referral to the tertiary

:49:16.:49:19.

specialist, and in education support for children with an

:49:19.:49:22.

assessment so that they can fulfil their potential. Could the Prime

:49:22.:49:27.

Minister and meet with me, the Joint Epilepsy Council and

:49:27.:49:32.

Professor Helen Cross, to progress these provisions which will not

:49:32.:49:37.

only save costs but also lives? I would be delighted to meet with

:49:37.:49:42.

her and Helen Cross, who I know well. She works at Great Ormond

:49:42.:49:44.

Street and is an absolutely brilliant clinician, and someone

:49:44.:49:48.

that I know well. I am keen to improve the support that we give to

:49:48.:49:53.

people with epilepsy. One of the steps that we are taking is putting

:49:53.:49:57.

in place more personal budgets and more single assessments, which I

:49:57.:50:00.

think will help with epilepsy. My understanding is that there are

:50:00.:50:04.

many good things in her bill, but there is some concern that it could

:50:04.:50:07.

have too much of the medical approach to special educational

:50:07.:50:11.

needs. I have some sympathy with that but I know many professionals

:50:11.:50:21.
:50:21.:50:21.

have their concerns about we could talk about that when we meet.

:50:21.:50:25.

my honourable friend tell the House what the results have been? What

:50:26.:50:29.

would a proposed cut in VAT do to the British economy at this stage

:50:29.:50:35.

in the cycle? I do think my right honourable friend raises an

:50:35.:50:40.

important point. Making a uncut to VAT right now, when the concerns

:50:40.:50:50.
:50:50.:50:54.

are about deficit would be insanity. -- unfunded cut. Labour's Plan B

:50:54.:50:58.

stands for bankruptcy. The Prime Minister frequently tells us that

:50:58.:51:02.

we are all in this together. Can he explain why banks are being

:51:02.:51:07.

rewarded with a �2 billion tax cut on their obscene bonuses and

:51:07.:51:12.

parents of disabled children are being penalised with the benefit

:51:12.:51:17.

cut of �1,400 per year? How is that fair? I tell you what this

:51:18.:51:22.

Government has done, which has put in place a �2.5 billion bank Levy,

:51:22.:51:28.

raising more than Labour's bonus tax, every single year. If members

:51:28.:51:33.

opposite want to see irresponsible people are earning a lot of money

:51:33.:51:38.

paying proper taxes, perhaps they can explain this. Why did they

:51:38.:51:40.

voted in as the measures on disguised earnings in the Finance

:51:40.:51:45.

Bill that would raise �800 million from people that are giving loans

:51:45.:51:50.

to themselves to dodge taxes? I think that is probably a detail but

:51:50.:51:58.

the leader of the Labour Party was not really aware of. While of

:51:58.:52:02.

course we should not be making a unilateral contribution to the

:52:02.:52:05.

Greek bail-out, does the Prime Minister not agree that we have

:52:05.:52:08.

something that would help regenerate the Greek economy and

:52:08.:52:16.

put right a 200 year wrong, and that is to give the marbles back?

:52:16.:52:22.

am afraid I don't agree with the honourable gentleman. Order. I want

:52:22.:52:29.

to hear the Prime Minister's views on marbles! The short answer is

:52:29.:52:37.

that we are not going to lose them! Is the Prime Minister aware that

:52:37.:52:42.

670,000 people, two-thirds of home according to his Government

:52:42.:52:46.

equality impact assessment have a disability, will lose up to �13 per

:52:46.:52:52.

week because of his changes in housing benefit and occupancy

:52:52.:52:56.

roles? This is a complete betrayal of his Chancellor's promise not to

:52:56.:53:01.

balance the budget on the backs of the poor. I have looked carefully

:53:01.:53:06.

at this issue and I know there are concerns. The point and make his

:53:06.:53:13.

first. It is right that we Reform Housing Benefit. The cost of got

:53:13.:53:17.

out of control, raising two 22 billion. The cost of housing

:53:17.:53:22.

benefit should reflect the size of the family not the House. But we

:53:22.:53:25.

have made an exception to people that have carers so that an

:53:25.:53:29.

allowance is made in the housing benefit. It is no good saying you

:53:29.:53:32.

are in favour of welfare reform and cutting the costs of welfare but

:53:33.:53:35.

never being able to find a single part of the bill that you agree

:53:35.:53:43.

with. Will the Prime Minister join me in welcoming a new report by the

:53:43.:53:50.

mobility Reform Group? They show how through partnership working

:53:50.:53:55.

they can deliver wheelchairs that transform young people's lives.

:53:55.:53:58.

Will he meet with me and the ambassadors to discuss how the

:53:58.:54:03.

Government can take this forward? know that charity well, they are

:54:04.:54:09.

excellent. I will certainly arrange a meeting for him. The point we

:54:09.:54:16.

want to make on wheelchairs is that we want to the health care reforms

:54:16.:54:19.

to give greater choice for GPs and patients so people can get the

:54:19.:54:27.

wheel chair of their choice, at the time they needed, rather than just

:54:27.:54:32.

having to take what you are given. Over five years there have been no

:54:32.:54:36.

mistakes made in the setting of school examination papers. Since

:54:36.:54:41.

the 16th May this year there have been 10 mistakes made. What does

:54:41.:54:45.

the Prime Minister intend to do for those among the 250,000 young

:54:45.:54:50.

people affected, who lose either the University of choice or the

:54:50.:54:54.

university at all because of this staggering incompetence?

:54:54.:55:00.

honourable gentleman is right and this is not an acceptable situation.

:55:00.:55:08.

We have discussed this and we are taking a strong course to make sure

:55:08.:55:14.

this does not happen again. former Labour Secretary of State

:55:14.:55:17.

Lord Hutton has described current proposals on pension reform as the

:55:17.:55:21.

best chance we have to deliver sustainable system which is fair to

:55:21.:55:25.

both scheme payers and the taxpayer. Does my right honourable friend

:55:25.:55:29.

agree with me that when it comes to these major long-term issues, we

:55:29.:55:33.

should build the broadest possible consensus? Will he seek the support

:55:33.:55:38.

of both sides of the House for the proposals? I thank my honourable

:55:38.:55:42.

friend for the question and for the way that he puts it. The point is

:55:42.:55:48.

this. The Hutton Report is a good report. It is not about attacking

:55:48.:55:52.

and downgrading public sector pensions. It is a way of making a

:55:52.:55:56.

big public sector pension affordable into the long term. It

:55:56.:55:59.

is respecting all of the accrued rights that people have. We need to

:55:59.:56:04.

win the argument here on the basis of fairness. It is right for the

:56:04.:56:08.

taxpayer to put money into public sector pensions, but we do need to

:56:08.:56:12.

know they are affordable for the long term. The steps that Lord

:56:12.:56:15.

Hutton puts forward are absolutely right and I hope the party opposite

:56:15.:56:18.

will take a responsible view and recognise that we need to make this

:56:18.:56:24.

change for the long-term good of our country. 18 months ago one of

:56:24.:56:27.

my constituents required knee surgery and was pleased to hear he

:56:27.:56:32.

only had to wait six weeks. In our needs another operation and has to

:56:32.:56:39.

wait 10 months. He is in agony and unable to walk. He is angry and

:56:39.:56:42.

wants to know if this is what the Prime Minister meant when he said

:56:42.:56:47.

the NHS was safe in his hands. you give me the case, I will look

:56:47.:56:50.

at it. We have not changed the waiting-list targets which have

:56:50.:56:55.

been in place in the NHS for a long time, in particular the two week

:56:55.:57:01.

target which is part of the NHS constitution. -- 18 week target.

:57:01.:57:06.

Waiting times have come down. The lesson is this. If it was not for

:57:06.:57:10.

this Government putting in �11 billion extra, money that the party

:57:10.:57:16.

opposite does not support, all waiting times would go up. On July

:57:16.:57:19.

18th last year, the economic Secretary to the Treasury stated

:57:20.:57:24.

with regard to the decision to sign Britain up to the eurozone bail-out

:57:24.:57:29.

mechanism that, and I quote, where these decisions were taken by the

:57:29.:57:33.

previous Government, this Government judges them to be an

:57:33.:57:36.

appropriate response to the crisis. Does this remained a Government's

:57:36.:57:41.

position? I know my honourable friend is pursuing this issue with

:57:41.:57:50.

his normal boggart tenacity. The facts of this case of very clear. -

:57:50.:57:54.

- are very clear. The Government signed us up to a European

:57:54.:57:57.

financial mechanism which we are having to pay out under. This

:57:57.:58:02.

Government has got us out of it by tougher glaciation in Brussels so

:58:02.:58:10.

that we don't have to contribute after 2015. -- tough negotiations.

:58:10.:58:13.

Can I express condolence for those soldiers that have fallen in

:58:13.:58:17.

Afghanistan? Those that serve are the lines of our country and we

:58:17.:58:21.

must do everything we can to repay the debt of gratitude that we owe

:58:21.:58:30.

them. The October, 2010, STS are has been overtaken by events and

:58:30.:58:34.

the world is a different place. Will he do the right thing for the

:58:34.:58:37.

armed forces and the country and order a new chapter to this

:58:37.:58:43.

outdated review? I respect of the honourable gentleman said, and

:58:43.:58:47.

particularly his fitting tribute to the armed forces. I think the idea

:58:47.:58:52.

of totally re- opening the defence review at a time when our armed

:58:52.:58:55.

forces are engaged and doing such a fantastic job is actually the wrong

:58:55.:58:59.

one. I make this point. What the defence review was all about was

:58:59.:59:03.

making sure that we have flexible armed forces so they can be

:59:03.:59:06.

committed to different parts of the world and they get the backing they

:59:06.:59:10.

need. It was about getting rid of the main battle tanks in Germany

:59:10.:59:14.

and Britain money into the enablers and the forces of the future. That

:59:14.:59:18.

is what the defence review is about. Libya shows that it is working and

:59:18.:59:23.

we should stick with it. Will my right honourable friend welcome the

:59:23.:59:27.

campaign for high-speed rail campaigning outside Parliament

:59:27.:59:30.

today to bring thousands of much- needed jobs to the Midlands and the

:59:30.:59:34.

North, to help address the North- South divide? Will he confirm that

:59:34.:59:39.

it will come to Yorkshire? I can happily confirm all of those things.

:59:39.:59:43.

I do believe if we really are serious about trying to rebalance

:59:43.:59:47.

our economy, make sure we get growth across the country and not

:59:47.:59:50.

just in the South East, then the time for high-speed rail has come

:59:50.:59:58.

and that is why it has my strong support. The Secretary of State for

:59:58.:00:01.

Wales has said she is prepared to be sacked because of opposition on

:00:01.:00:11.
:00:11.:00:13.

high-speed rail. I prefer to focus on the fact that in one year as

:00:13.:00:17.

Welsh Secretary, she has secured something that 13 years of your

:00:17.:00:21.

Welsh Secretary never achieved, which was the Elettra vocation of

:00:21.:00:29.

the line between Paddington and Cardiff. -- electrification.

:00:29.:00:34.

agoraphobic man from Middlesbrough received so much money from state

:00:34.:00:38.

benefits that he set up his own illegal loans company. He received

:00:38.:00:44.

a staggering amount of money in benefits, according to the judge at

:00:44.:00:48.

his trial. We should reform the benefits system. You are absolutely

:00:48.:00:53.

right. The people that sent us here what us to sort out the welfare

:00:53.:00:57.

system so that it is available for people that genuinely need help,

:00:57.:01:01.

but if you can work and you are offered a job, you should not live

:01:01.:01:06.

your life on welfare. We voted for it but what a pity that the party

:01:06.:01:11.

opposite talked about it but did not have the guts to back it.

:01:11.:01:18.

people know that Rochdale is the home of co-operation. Next year is

:01:18.:01:22.

the United Nations International Year of co-operatives. Will the

:01:22.:01:28.

Prime Minister consider visiting Rochdale to show support for mutual

:01:28.:01:36.

isn't in the 21st century? I know the Prime Minister's record of

:01:36.:01:42.

visiting Rochdale and what can happen when he gets there. I am a

:01:43.:01:46.

strong supporter of co-operatives and mutuals. They have a huge role

:01:46.:01:50.

to play in our economy and in the provision of public services, and

:01:50.:01:53.

we will be making some announcements about that, maybe in

:01:53.:01:59.

Rochdale, in the months to come. Earlier this year, the Prime

:01:59.:02:03.

Minister demonstrated strength of character to talk about the issue

:02:03.:02:07.

of multiculturalism. In view of the fact that I have a Christian first

:02:07.:02:11.

game and seeks surname, I try to combine the best of my traditional

:02:11.:02:16.

Indian values with my English values. We can learn a lot from our

:02:16.:02:20.

Indian partners, many of whom define themselves by their

:02:20.:02:23.

nationality first and foremost, regardless of religious and ethnic

:02:23.:02:29.

background. I pay tribute to my honourable friend and the work that

:02:29.:02:33.

he does on this issue. It is vital as a country that we build a

:02:33.:02:37.

stronger national identity. People clearly feel that of course you can

:02:37.:02:39.

have all sorts of different religious identities and cultural

:02:39.:02:43.

identities, but it is very important that we build a strong

:02:43.:02:50.

British identity and he is living proof of that. Tomorrow the

:02:50.:02:53.

European Parliament will decide whether to reduce the EU carbon

:02:53.:02:59.

reduction target by 30% in 2020. According to reports, the vote will

:02:59.:03:04.

be very close but it will not pass because one Conservative MEP out of

:03:04.:03:13.

25 will vote to for the 30% target alone. Will they honour the

:03:13.:03:16.

agreement and vote for the target tomorrow? We are committed to the

:03:16.:03:20.

30% target and nothing will change that. I will do a deal with the

:03:20.:03:25.

honourable lady. I will work with my MEPs if she works on hers. In

:03:25.:03:30.

recent months that they have voted for a higher its EU budget, you EU

:03:30.:03:37.

taxes, and they even voted against scrapping first class air travel

:03:37.:03:43.

for MEPs. Perhaps she would like to fly over and give them a talking

:03:43.:03:51.

to? Last but not least. With the National Audit Office estimating

:03:51.:03:56.

the cost of criminal reoffending to the economy at �10 billion per year,

:03:56.:03:59.

does my right honourable friend agree with me that the need to

:03:59.:04:02.

reduce offending levels on the unacceptably high rates we

:04:02.:04:09.

inherited from the last Government must be the focus of a penal

:04:09.:04:13.

policy? My honourable friend has considerable experience because of

:04:13.:04:17.

his career before coming to this place. We inherited a system

:04:17.:04:21.

whereby each prison place cost �40,000, half of prisoners reoffend

:04:21.:04:26.

within a year of getting out, half of prisoners are wrong drugs, and

:04:26.:04:30.

10% of foreigners that should not be in this country in any event.

:04:30.:04:38.

The key is to make sure that we reduce costs and reform prisons,

:04:38.:04:48.
:04:48.:04:55.

He went on the military and the complaints of the top brass in

:04:55.:05:03.

Britain. Then he came back and almost an issue from left field

:05:03.:05:08.

because no one was expecting it, on keeping their DNA of those who have

:05:08.:05:14.

been arrested on rape, but not convicted. We will come back to

:05:14.:05:21.

that issue in a moment. Before we do that, let's hear what you

:05:21.:05:25.

thought. By and large, more positive about

:05:25.:05:30.

Ed Miliband than I can remember for a long time. Last week it was due

:05:30.:05:38.

to a good performance, and this There are tweets from political

:05:38.:05:43.

correspondent and they have been quite positive. As for your

:05:43.:05:47.

comments, very thoughtful. Charles says David Cameron was equivocal

:05:47.:05:50.

about when that Britain would pay for the Greek bail-out, he should

:05:50.:05:55.

be much clearer about whether there is a possibility on Britain being

:05:55.:06:00.

made to contribute. Colin, when our scoring the first question, did

:06:00.:06:04.

Cameron never categorically say the UK would not give money to Greece

:06:04.:06:09.

in future bail-outs? Gym, last week Miliband had to prove he was a

:06:09.:06:13.

bruiser to silence the critics, this week he is using Libya to show

:06:13.:06:17.

he is a statesman and the Tories are not necessarily the natural

:06:17.:06:21.

party of the military. Jacqueline says, I am disgusted at the

:06:21.:06:25.

absolute weakness of the Labour MP talking about U-turns, this

:06:25.:06:30.

government listens. What is the point of having green papers if you

:06:30.:06:34.

don't debate them? Charles, why do the gunman shout and yell if there

:06:34.:06:39.

is an awkward question on new terms and pensions, it is an obvious

:06:39.:06:43.

stage-managing tactic. The Prime Minister stated we were at war with

:06:43.:06:47.

Libya, I thought it was humanitarian action. Was it just a

:06:47.:06:50.

slip or can we expect something else next?

:06:50.:06:55.

Interesting. He certainly did say we were at war. Two walls. Michael

:06:55.:07:00.

Howard, we have had the First Sea Lord speaking out, we have had the

:07:00.:07:04.

air Chief Marshal speaking out, head of the RAF, and we have had

:07:04.:07:08.

the Chief of the General Staff speaking out, head of the army. As

:07:08.:07:12.

the Telegraph says, that prime minister surely must accept

:07:12.:07:16.

something is going badly awry when such a senior officers feel obliged

:07:16.:07:21.

to vent their so far -- have done their frustrations. It is easy for

:07:21.:07:26.

senior officers to in effect ask for more. That is what they are

:07:26.:07:34.

doing. The challenge for anyone who is saying we ought to redo the

:07:34.:07:39.

Strategic Defence Review is where are you going to find the money? We

:07:39.:07:43.

know we have to tackle the deficit. Every department has to play its

:07:43.:07:49.

part in achieving that objective. The defence department is one such

:07:49.:07:54.

department. As I have heard Liam Fox say many times, if you accept

:07:55.:08:00.

the amount of money which is available for the defence

:08:00.:08:04.

department and you do a strategic Defence Review, you come up with a

:08:04.:08:07.

Defence Review which the Government announced an published and is

:08:07.:08:12.

implementing. That is the challenge for those who seek to criticise,

:08:12.:08:17.

where is the extra money going to come from? As one Labour MP pointed

:08:17.:08:22.

out, not Mr Miliband, the Defence Review did not mention Tunisia or

:08:22.:08:30.

Algeria or Egypt or Libya. Yes, but that doesn't mean we haven't been

:08:30.:08:35.

performing our role in accordance with the limitations imposed by the

:08:35.:08:38.

United Nations Security Council resolution very effectively in

:08:38.:08:41.

Libya in partnership with other countries. We are not doing it on

:08:41.:08:46.

our own and we are doing it pursuant to wait Security Council

:08:46.:08:49.

resolution and we're doing it effectively. The Air Chief Marshal

:08:49.:08:55.

says these huge demands on the RAF and in the morale among MN is

:08:55.:09:00.

fragile. The RAF's ability to conduct future operations will be

:09:00.:09:04.

compromised if the Libyan conflict lasted be on September. Well, let's

:09:04.:09:09.

hope there aren't any unknown future operations. We didn't think

:09:09.:09:13.

there... I remember when the prime minister was Leader of the

:09:13.:09:17.

Opposition, he told us you could not impose democracy from 30,000

:09:17.:09:24.

feet. Within a few months, Eurofighter jets are dropping bombs

:09:24.:09:28.

from over 15,000 feet. Not seeking to impose anything on anybody, we

:09:28.:09:33.

are seeking to protect civilians. I believe that if his action had not

:09:33.:09:38.

been taken and we had seen a bloodbath in Benghazi, as we

:09:38.:09:42.

absolutely would have seen, public opinion would have been horrified

:09:42.:09:45.

and would have said to the Government, what did you do to stop

:09:45.:09:50.

it? It was noteworthy that Ed Miliband, in the course of his

:09:50.:09:55.

questioning of the Prime Minister, maintained his support for the

:09:55.:10:00.

mission in Libya. If you maintain that support, certain consequences

:10:00.:10:04.

flow from it. Alistair Darling, would it be fair to say that if

:10:04.:10:09.

Labour had won the election, and he had remained as Chancellor, as you

:10:09.:10:15.

had agreed he would, Labour would have had to have done a Defence

:10:15.:10:19.

Review which, in strategic terms, would not have been that different

:10:19.:10:24.

from the one the coalition has done. Of course we would. There are long-

:10:24.:10:27.

term problems in the MoD particularly in relation to

:10:27.:10:32.

procurement. Also, successive governments have always anticipated

:10:32.:10:36.

that we would be doing less in defence, not more, but then events

:10:36.:10:40.

come along, whether it was Iraq or Afghanistan, now Lydia, which means

:10:40.:10:46.

we are committing troops and there is a cost to that. Like Michael, I

:10:46.:10:50.

agree that we could not have stood by and let a bloodbath occur in

:10:50.:10:55.

Libya. However, interesting listening to David Cameron, there

:10:55.:11:01.

is no doubt that our policy has moved from that. He was talking

:11:01.:11:05.

about time being on our side and it was only a matter of time before

:11:06.:11:10.

Gaddafi when. We will be pleased when Gaddafi goes, but that

:11:10.:11:14.

suggests we might be in this for quite a long time, which brings me

:11:14.:11:18.

to the Chiefs of Staff, who are saying that if you commit British

:11:18.:11:22.

forces, whether they are unable or air forces, for a long period, that

:11:22.:11:27.

comes that is a - at a cost. There is no saying it comes from the

:11:27.:11:30.

Reserve, that his public expenditure, just as much as if it

:11:30.:11:34.

came out of the MoD Leger. There has been a degree of mission creep.

:11:35.:11:39.

The other thing that worries me is that every time we say we should

:11:40.:11:43.

not be and this alone, if you look at who is engaged in Libya at the

:11:43.:11:48.

moment, it is basically as and the French. We can't carry on becoming

:11:48.:11:53.

engaged that way. That is not to say we stand aside, if we are faced

:11:53.:11:57.

with another similar situation, nobody can put up with that, but I

:11:57.:12:01.

think that chiefs of staff are making good boy. If Gordon Brown

:12:01.:12:05.

had said you did the fighting, I'll do the talking, he would have been

:12:05.:12:10.

pulverised. That was a silly thing of David Cameron to say. The second

:12:10.:12:16.

three questions were on the issue of the DNA samples. Do you think,

:12:16.:12:21.

given that he went on a specific problem with cancer patients last

:12:21.:12:25.

week as a result of the welfare reforms, is it now his tactic to

:12:25.:12:29.

pick something quite particular that involves a detailed knowledge?

:12:29.:12:33.

He is operating on the assumption that the Prime Minister is

:12:33.:12:38.

sometimes not so good on the detail. No, it is David Cameron's Achilles

:12:38.:12:43.

heel. We saw it the previous week with 7,000 cancer victims who would

:12:43.:12:47.

lose money, David Cameron was not on top of it, and he was struggling

:12:47.:12:51.

to date. He is very stylish, but sometimes this substance is more

:12:51.:12:56.

difficult. I think Ed Miliband, who is not always stylish but knows the

:12:56.:13:01.

detail, is going to work away at that. He got under the prime

:13:01.:13:10.

minister's skin. I suspect, before Prime Minister's Questions, David

:13:10.:13:14.

Cameron will be breaking out into cold sweats, worrying about those

:13:14.:13:20.

details. I want to pick up before we left off before PMQs. I said,

:13:20.:13:26.

would you accept that from what we know now, despite the criticisms,

:13:26.:13:30.

it is as certain as it can be that Mr Miliband will lead Labour into

:13:30.:13:34.

the next election? You were not quite as certain, explain what you

:13:34.:13:39.

mean. I think it is likely he will, but I don't think it is certain.

:13:39.:13:43.

There is so much background noise in Parliament about it, right from

:13:43.:13:48.

the beginning. A majority of MPs did not support him. I know some

:13:48.:13:55.

who supported him who now regret it. Some quite senior, some people and

:13:55.:14:02.

the Shadow Cabinet. He is on a kind of Probation, really. The Labour

:14:02.:14:07.

constitution in opposition is very different. In power you need 20% of

:14:07.:14:13.

MPs to sign for somebody else. It is only 12.5%... Let me get

:14:14.:14:17.

Alistair Darling's reaction. I think he will lead us into the next

:14:17.:14:22.

election. I supported his brother, but I have been very clear that

:14:22.:14:26.

once we had the election result, it was elected and he deserves to be

:14:26.:14:33.

backed. As Michael will testify, once a leader is elected, he is

:14:33.:14:37.

entitled to get the support of his whole party. I don't have time for

:14:37.:14:41.

people going around murmuring in the background. It would put us out

:14:41.:14:48.

of a job! I am not necessarily against that! Do you think

:14:48.:14:51.

unemployment is high enough? sure you could get a job somewhere.

:14:51.:14:56.

We need to move on. Kevin Maguire, thank you.

:14:56.:15:02.

Now, here's a question - is the beautiful game sexist?

:15:02.:15:08.

Cricket is not! Up Well, one female MP certainly thinks so. She's been

:15:08.:15:10.

booted off the parliamentry football team because she's of the

:15:10.:15:14.

fairer sex, and she ain't too happy about it. Here's Tracey Crouch, the

:15:14.:15:24.
:15:24.:15:33.

MP for Chatham and Aylsford, with Today's grassroots football

:15:33.:15:38.

promotion for boys and girls is incredibly successful. Youth

:15:38.:15:40.

development forming a key part of the County FA's development

:15:40.:15:44.

programme so more and more girls than boys are playing organised

:15:44.:15:50.

football every weekend. -- girls and boys. However girls growing up

:15:50.:15:55.

in the 1980s were not supposed to play football. Except I did, I love

:15:55.:15:59.

football, I played it in the garden, in the street and against the shop

:15:59.:16:03.

wall. The only time I did not play it was at school when I was not

:16:03.:16:07.

allowed to play football. At primary I would try to play at

:16:07.:16:12.

break time, but I was told it was not ladylike. Then I went to an all

:16:12.:16:15.

girls' secondary school where it was all hockey and netball. It

:16:15.:16:19.

wasn't until I went to university that I played my first 11 aside

:16:19.:16:22.

match competitive league and then when I graduated I continued to

:16:22.:16:26.

play 11 aside, including, an occasion, for the parliamentary

:16:26.:16:29.

football team. But since I got elected last May, I have been

:16:29.:16:34.

unable to play for the 11th azide team and have been limited to five-

:16:34.:16:41.

a-side. It is still good fun and good exercise, but it is not great.

:16:41.:16:44.

I support age restrictions, the walls are there to protect

:16:44.:16:47.

youngsters. At 13 girls and boys are physically different and they

:16:47.:16:51.

haven't developed the skills to play football maturely. However I

:16:51.:16:55.

do think that once you get over 21 and you are a more mature

:16:55.:16:58.

footballer, the rules should be reviewed, especially for amateur

:16:58.:17:08.

Immaturity and common sense go hand-in-hand in the adult game.

:17:08.:17:11.

Knee playing for the parliamentary football team or any other lady

:17:11.:17:15.

playing in a pub or a charity match should not get caught up in roles

:17:15.:17:19.

that are designed to protect 13- year-old girls. -- and rules.

:17:19.:17:27.

Tracey Crouch is with us now. Without meaning to be dismissive at

:17:27.:17:31.

the marvellous players in Parliament, why have they even

:17:31.:17:35.

registered on the FA's radar? FA provide the opportunity for him

:17:35.:17:40.

pays to plead that play football on a regular basis. A maybe begins

:17:40.:17:44.

legend teams or charity teams. They provide the venues and referees so

:17:44.:17:51.

they have to abide by the FA rules. Has it always just been the boys

:17:51.:17:55.

that les? No. When I was a researcher for Michael Howard, I

:17:55.:17:59.

used to play for the parliamentary football team. It is ironic that

:17:59.:18:09.
:18:09.:18:16.

now I'm an MP, I am not allowed to Why have they changed it? Do they

:18:16.:18:21.

explain the discrepancy? The rules around mixed football are set by

:18:21.:18:25.

FIFA and the FA have to abide by them. There are rules for mixed

:18:25.:18:29.

football which protect young people playing against each other, and

:18:29.:18:33.

those rules are right. It is right to protect 13 year-old girls and

:18:33.:18:38.

boys. The fiscal differences mean that you have to use those rules.

:18:38.:18:43.

You are not a burly bloke, aren't you worried that they will flatten

:18:43.:18:48.

you? No. It is a competitive game but it is one of skill. You don't

:18:48.:18:57.

need to be burly to play well. know that you are a big football

:18:57.:19:02.

fan. Is this that Raiders of right and proper? At raiders. I am

:19:02.:19:11.

totally on her side. -- outrageous. The don't sit on the fence!

:19:11.:19:15.

there anything you can do about it? Why is that Blatter setting the

:19:15.:19:21.

rules? It was the first time that I heard it was FIFA in charge. That

:19:21.:19:25.

hardly encourages you. The parliamentary football team started

:19:25.:19:29.

off as fun, and now it has reached the situation where it is

:19:29.:19:33.

nonsensical that Tracey cannot play. The ride them to change the rules.

:19:33.:19:42.

That always works. -- bribe them. And you could wear tighter shorts?!

:19:42.:19:47.

Who takes up your position? Where do you normally play? The right

:19:47.:19:53.

wing or centre forward. So you are fast? I used to be. Who does it

:19:54.:19:59.

now? One of the chaps, I suppose. I have not been able to play since I

:19:59.:20:03.

was MP. Since the election I have not been able to. Is there anything

:20:03.:20:07.

you can do apart from coming on the programme and telling us it is

:20:07.:20:15.

rubbish? I hope that the FA see sense. It is not an association

:20:15.:20:19.

football match. It is a charity match or a friendly. I don't think

:20:19.:20:23.

the FA rules should apply to those games. Speaking of FA rules, it

:20:23.:20:27.

stay with us. There is another thing going on at the moment,

:20:27.:20:32.

football-related. What about nationalism? Yesterday they

:20:32.:20:36.

announced that there would be Team GB football teams competing at

:20:36.:20:44.

London 2012. Not greeted with universal pleasure. Phil Pritchard,

:20:44.:20:53.

you are not doing cartwheels? was historic agreement between all

:20:53.:20:57.

of the Football Association's, but nobody had told the Scottish and

:20:57.:21:01.

the Welsh. It would be a disaster. It sets an example that we do not

:21:01.:21:06.

want to be replicated for World Cups and European football. I urge

:21:06.:21:11.

the Olympic Committee to forget this and to leave Team GB alone.

:21:11.:21:16.

When did you last qualify for World Cup? We are going back a few years

:21:16.:21:20.

but we are hopeful for the European Championships. Scotland has not

:21:20.:21:23.

made that bad a start. We are looking forward with positivity

:21:23.:21:29.

with that one. Apart from making you feel sad, at my point is that

:21:29.:21:32.

there could be some Scottish players that would like the chance

:21:32.:21:37.

to play on an international stage. Kenny MacAskill once called England

:21:37.:21:42.

football team the Great Satan. There is fantastic rivalry between

:21:42.:21:49.

four of the home nations of the United Kingdom. I think that most

:21:49.:21:52.

Scottish footballers accept it is all about independence of the

:21:52.:21:56.

football teams. Scotland being able to compete in Europe, that is the

:21:56.:22:01.

pinnacle of our game. Maybe a few administrators and nations care

:22:01.:22:06.

about football at the Olympics. But nobody else really gives a fig.

:22:06.:22:12.

am glad you said fake. Thank you. Let's turn to our Scottish

:22:12.:22:19.

representatives. Team GB? I think there is an important point here.

:22:19.:22:26.

There are people that would like to stop Scotland and Wales and

:22:26.:22:31.

Northern Ireland competing and just to have the British team. There is

:22:31.:22:36.

a philosophical argument. All things British. Listing to the guy

:22:36.:22:39.

from the Olympics this morning, he sounded unconvinced about whether

:22:39.:22:45.

or not there was an agreement to do this. I am Welsh. I have long

:22:45.:22:48.

thought we should have Team GB. There are so many brilliant players

:22:48.:22:52.

from Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland that have never had the

:22:52.:22:56.

chance to play in a European Championship or the World Cup. I

:22:56.:23:02.

think that Team GB could win it. don't think that football should be

:23:02.:23:06.

part of the Olympics, actually. That is another debate. If it is

:23:06.:23:11.

going to be part of the Olympics, it should be Team GB. Hold the

:23:11.:23:15.

front page. The House of Lords is having a busy week this week,

:23:15.:23:19.

believe it or not. Yes, Peers have been debating their own future.

:23:19.:23:23.

They are always interested in that. Nick Clegg wants to turn it into

:23:23.:23:28.

the senate of 300 members. Their rapid hundred at the moment. Peers

:23:28.:23:36.

have also been mulling over who would be the new Speaker. -- there

:23:36.:23:42.

are 800 at the moment. What does the job entail? Tension is rising.

:23:42.:23:47.

No, it is! Did you know there was an election in Westminster soon?

:23:47.:23:52.

You would be forgiven for not having heard of it. It is a done

:23:52.:23:57.

your contest. Nominations close for the post of Lords speak of. What do

:23:57.:24:02.

they do? This is Mr Bercow. We know his job and his famous cry of order.

:24:03.:24:08.

You will not hear much of that from this lady. Baroness Hayman's role

:24:08.:24:11.

as the current Speaker of the House of Lords is rather different to

:24:11.:24:15.

demand that sits in this chair. That is not just because he sits in

:24:15.:24:22.

a chair and she sits on a Woolsack. Yes, a sackful of wall. In the

:24:22.:24:28.

Commons, the Speaker can call members to speak, he can rule on

:24:28.:24:31.

points of order, he can select amendments on bills to be discussed,

:24:31.:24:35.

and he has the power to chop a member out of the chamber. The

:24:35.:24:41.

Lords Speaker can do none of that. The idea being they do not need

:24:41.:24:45.

such robust hand on the tiller. Here, she is limited to chairing

:24:45.:24:49.

debates, offering advice on procedural matters, acting as

:24:49.:24:56.

ambassador to the work of the house. You will not hear her doing this.

:24:56.:25:00.

Or do. The Government Chief Whip as no business what forever shouting

:25:00.:25:04.

from a sedentary position. Order! The Honourable Gentleman will

:25:04.:25:08.

remain in the chamber. That is because in the Lords the Speaker

:25:08.:25:12.

cannot discipline any of the members. I am not entirely sure she

:25:12.:25:18.

is even allowed to wake them up. history teacher used to sound like

:25:18.:25:23.

the Speaker. Rupert Redesdale, Liberal Democrat peer, and

:25:23.:25:33.

crossbench peer Lady de Sousa join us now. I am running but I am not

:25:33.:25:36.

going to vote for myself. I do not believe the Speaker should have any

:25:36.:25:41.

power. I am running to make sure that my fellow peers don't forget

:25:41.:25:44.

that the House of Lords is self- regulated and should remain so.

:25:44.:25:49.

Your campaign is to get no votes. I expect it is going pretty well?

:25:49.:25:55.

can say it is almost 100% successful. I was standing in the

:25:55.:25:57.

lobby and somebody said they were going to vote for me precisely

:25:57.:26:01.

because they are not happy with the idea of a speaker getting power,

:26:01.:26:05.

because that is a route for the executive to get power in the House

:26:05.:26:12.

of Lords. Frances D'Souza, what do you think the job should entail?

:26:12.:26:15.

feel passionately that the job is to do without reach. A lot of

:26:15.:26:19.

people out there don't know what the House of Lords does. I think

:26:19.:26:25.

there is a sterling job to do. An ambassador role, but really a

:26:25.:26:31.

representational role. If you want to talk to Europe, who do you call?

:26:31.:26:35.

That sounds a bit grand, but in the case of the House of Lords and you

:26:35.:26:40.

want to talk to them, who do you call? Actually you need the Speaker

:26:40.:26:44.

because they are the link with the outside world, a link to you, the

:26:44.:26:49.

other parliaments and the House of Commons. I think that is worthwhile.

:26:49.:26:54.

Who would you like to vote for? will not tell you who. I will give

:26:54.:26:59.

you a clue. I am standing. One vote will go to me at least and it may

:26:59.:27:03.

well come from me. Just because you are standing, that is not a clue.

:27:03.:27:08.

It is not a clue with Rupert Redesdale. I have just been trying

:27:08.:27:11.

to persuade my colleagues on my right that what he might be able to

:27:11.:27:18.

do with his second vote is vote for me but he is not that convinced.

:27:18.:27:22.

am clear that I will vote for you if you save that you will not take

:27:23.:27:29.

any further powers as Speaker. house will decide on powers but I

:27:29.:27:32.

have Furness said and I firmly believe that the job is an outward

:27:32.:27:39.

facing one. -- firmly said. Will Nick Clegg get Lords reform?

:27:39.:27:46.

question is whether we will get Lords reform? No. I think that his

:27:46.:27:50.

way will be got in maybe about 10 years' time. I am not saying that

:27:50.:27:56.

he won't get it, but it will take more time, I suspect. He will

:27:56.:27:59.

probably be commissioner in Brussels by them. What do you

:27:59.:28:09.

think? I think they could debated. I will be voting for reform but

:28:09.:28:14.

whether it takes place, I doubt it. That option would not win. You want

:28:14.:28:20.

his vote, don't argue! Thank you to both of you for being such good

:28:20.:28:23.

sports and for joining us from the House of Lords. That is it. Have

:28:23.:28:29.

you got a candidate? I don't know yet. The names are not in until

:28:29.:28:36.

tomorrow. And you have not got a vote. Only a matter of time. Lord

:28:36.:28:40.

Darling, that has got a ring. We will give you the answer to Guess

:28:40.:28:45.

The Year tomorrow because we ran out of time, for a change. Thank

:28:45.:28:49.

Presented by Andrew Neil and Anita Anand.

There's a look back to the Chancellor's emergency budget, 12 months on, and the latest on economic affairs in the Eurozone - where next for Greece?

The House of Lords is looking for a new Speaker - you have until Thursday to apply.

Just how sexist is the beautiful game? MP Tracey Crouch explains why she's not happy with the FA.

Plus, Alistair Darling and Lord Michael Howard are in the studio to review Prime Minister's Questions.


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