Browse content similar to 23/06/2011. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Morning, Fox, will come to the Daily Politics. Robin Hood Clegg | :00:29. | :00:34. | |
says he wants to give you the banks, but is it any more than political | :00:34. | :00:40. | |
posturing? He is friends with huskies, we know that, but his any | :00:40. | :00:43. | |
peace in Europe are voting against his Government's policy on the | :00:43. | :00:46. | |
environment. What is the Prime Minister going to do about it? | :00:46. | :00:50. | |
Going Dutch, our students are making big savings by studying | :00:50. | :00:58. | |
abroad. And MPs prepared to vote to ban on wild animals from circuses, | :00:58. | :01:02. | |
but is the centuries of tradition really cruel? The Republic want us, | :01:02. | :01:06. | |
they support us, and we really ought to be listening to the people | :01:06. | :01:11. | |
of vote with their feet. -- the public want us. | :01:11. | :01:16. | |
All of that is coming out in the next half hour. With us for the | :01:16. | :01:19. | |
duration is writer, broadcaster and Labour peer Joan Bakewell. Lovely | :01:19. | :01:25. | |
to have you on the programme. whenever Nick Clegg goes abroad, he | :01:25. | :01:29. | |
makes an announcement! He probably has nothing else to do, idling away | :01:29. | :01:34. | |
hours with journalists on the plane. It seems that is largely unreported | :01:34. | :01:40. | |
trip to Brazil, he did not know he was there, did you? It has inspired | :01:40. | :01:43. | |
the Deputy Prime Minister to launch a scheme which would see shares in | :01:43. | :01:49. | |
the nationalised banks, the Royal Bank and Lloyds, distributed to the | :01:49. | :01:52. | |
taxpayers who bailed them out in the first place. It is not clear | :01:52. | :01:57. | |
how it will go down with the Chancellor, because it seems Mr on | :01:57. | :02:01. | |
Thorn was banking on using the profits of reselling the banks to | :02:01. | :02:06. | |
help improve the public finances. - - Mr Osborne. Here's a thought, cut | :02:06. | :02:11. | |
our taxes before the next election! Do Chancellors do that? It comes | :02:11. | :02:16. | |
from an idea that was put forward originally by Lib Dem MP Stephen | :02:16. | :02:23. | |
Williams, who joins us now. Welcome. Hello! Let me just clarify this, is | :02:23. | :02:29. | |
it an official Lib Dem policy to do this, but not yet coalition policy? | :02:29. | :02:33. | |
It is not officially Lib Dem policy yet until our party conference | :02:33. | :02:38. | |
discusses it, because that is the way we make policy, but it has been | :02:38. | :02:42. | |
pretty well endorsed by everyone who matters in the party from the | :02:42. | :02:45. | |
Deputy Prime Minister down. You may remember, Andrew, I launched this | :02:45. | :02:50. | |
pamphlet on your programme back in March. It is an idea that has been | :02:50. | :02:54. | |
gathering momentum. Even John Redwood, who was on television this | :02:54. | :02:58. | |
morning, said he was in broad support. Is it an idea whose time | :02:58. | :03:02. | |
has come? I think so, and more people are coming on board when | :03:02. | :03:06. | |
they see it is popular. There are not many people who I have spoken | :03:06. | :03:16. | |
:03:16. | :03:18. | ||
to in the last six months who, after the conversation, say, no, I | :03:18. | :03:23. | |
don't like that. It is popular, and it makes a clear link between the | :03:23. | :03:25. | |
nationalisation of the banks and the benefit when they return to | :03:25. | :03:30. | |
profitability in the near future. That is interesting. You think the | :03:30. | :03:33. | |
banks are ready to return to the private sector? I think the | :03:33. | :03:37. | |
preparations need to be made now for when they are ready. The share | :03:37. | :03:41. | |
prices are still pretty much in the debt. Yes, but those share prices | :03:41. | :03:45. | |
are probably artificially depressed at the moment because there is no | :03:45. | :03:49. | |
real knowledge of expectation as to what the government is going to do | :03:49. | :03:53. | |
with the two enormous holdings that it has in these banks. Once the | :03:53. | :03:57. | |
Government makes its intentions clear, at the share prices will | :03:57. | :04:02. | |
rally to some extent, but the main driver is the profitability of the | :04:02. | :04:08. | |
banks themselves. Do you really want to lumber all of us with bank | :04:08. | :04:12. | |
shares just on the brink of a European sovereign debt crisis? | :04:12. | :04:16. | |
These banks have balance sheets full of a new toxic waste called | :04:16. | :04:20. | |
European sovereign debt. We would not be lumbered with them. The | :04:20. | :04:25. | |
state owns these bank shares at the moment, so we have already got them. | :04:25. | :04:29. | |
I mean the individuals. Treasury would only dispose of | :04:29. | :04:34. | |
these shares when either it knows it can do so at a profit in terms | :04:34. | :04:38. | |
of a normal privatisation that you and I will remember from the | :04:39. | :04:42. | |
Thatcher and John Major era, all to do it in his rather more | :04:42. | :04:46. | |
imaginative way, where every citizen gets the benefit. We can | :04:46. | :04:49. | |
only do it when the market conditions are right. We are not | :04:49. | :04:53. | |
there yet, but we must be optimistic that both are these | :04:53. | :04:57. | |
banks, which have been saved by the taxpayer, they have been in | :04:57. | :05:00. | |
intensive care, and pretty soon they will be ready to return to the | :05:00. | :05:05. | |
private sector, which is where they belong. I want to do that in a way | :05:05. | :05:10. | |
in which everyone can benefit. quick questions before I get our | :05:10. | :05:15. | |
guest's reaction. You say it is not yet Lib Dem policy, but the | :05:15. | :05:19. | |
manifesto policy was, we will turn Northern Rock into a building | :05:19. | :05:24. | |
society. You did not get away on that, did you? We will have to wait | :05:24. | :05:28. | |
and see what happens. It has been privatised. It may well be sold to | :05:28. | :05:32. | |
an existing building society, of course. There are many options. | :05:32. | :05:37. | |
Unlikely. Let me ask you this. Who would get these shares? Every | :05:37. | :05:42. | |
citizen? That is the model I have proposed. How would we do find | :05:42. | :05:46. | |
that? If your name is on the electoral roll? That is the way I | :05:46. | :05:52. | |
suggested. Electro role has more holes than a Swiss cheese. -- the | :05:52. | :05:56. | |
electoral roll. I would say it is pretty robust. There would have to | :05:56. | :06:01. | |
be some clean-up operations. Students and MPs would get two sets | :06:01. | :06:09. | |
of shares! I think we would be caught out! There Ahsan is used | :06:09. | :06:14. | |
with the Elektra Register, but it remains the only complete dataset | :06:14. | :06:18. | |
of all 46 million adults in the UK. -- there our son is used with the | :06:18. | :06:22. | |
collector of register. What do you think? I think it is a bit of a | :06:22. | :06:28. | |
gimmick. A gimmick! Offer people �1,000, they are going to like it, | :06:28. | :06:32. | |
they are going to be very pleased with it. If it is every citizen, | :06:32. | :06:36. | |
that includes people who do not pay taxes, and there is already lots of | :06:36. | :06:42. | |
talk about people saying, you mean people who do not pay taxes are | :06:42. | :06:48. | |
going to get his bonus, too? Also, we already Tony Banks, don't we? | :06:48. | :06:53. | |
Isn't that the point of the purchase? -- owned by the banks. | :06:53. | :06:57. | |
What they are doing is making us into shareholders and privatising | :06:57. | :07:02. | |
the banks by giving us the money. I think we should all get together as | :07:02. | :07:04. | |
shareholders, go to the shareholders' meeting and vote down | :07:04. | :07:09. | |
the bonuses and the pay of the chief executive. That would be a | :07:09. | :07:15. | |
case of doing it. Stephen Williams, keeps in touch with us. OK. | :07:15. | :07:19. | |
regard the Daily Politics as your outlet for taking this debate on! | :07:19. | :07:23. | |
That is very kind of you. Now, the government is committed to | :07:24. | :07:30. | |
increasing our target for reducing CO2 emissions from 20% down to 30% | :07:31. | :07:34. | |
by 2020, which is far enough in the future of one of the current bunch | :07:34. | :07:38. | |
to be held accountable if it does that happen. But it will not apply | :07:38. | :07:42. | |
to the heart head generated in this studio, which is preserved by | :07:42. | :07:49. | |
national statute. -- hot air. Some MEPs are planning to vote against | :07:49. | :07:53. | |
the Government's policy today. Anita has the details. I will do my | :07:53. | :07:57. | |
best to explain. You are right, David Cameron has repeatedly said | :07:57. | :08:01. | |
he wants the commission to be the greenest government ever, so in his | :08:01. | :08:05. | |
bunny hugging coalition agreement, he said he wanted to raise the EU | :08:05. | :08:12. | |
carbon cutting target from 20% up to 30% by 2020. Today, there is | :08:12. | :08:15. | |
this non-binding European Parliament vote that calls for the | :08:15. | :08:20. | |
target to be raised. All well and good, not really, because the | :08:20. | :08:23. | |
Conservative MEPs are threatening to blow smoke all over the Prime | :08:23. | :08:27. | |
Minister's green credentials by voting against raising the target. | :08:27. | :08:31. | |
Led by Martin Callanan, they say a higher target would harm business, | :08:31. | :08:35. | |
and that any unilateral action would put Europe at a competitive | :08:35. | :08:39. | |
disadvantage to rivals like China. Martin Callanan is also not | :08:39. | :08:42. | |
particularly bothered by the coalition's flower-power, sharing | :08:42. | :08:47. | |
agreement, saying, we are not in coalition with the Lib Dems in the | :08:47. | :08:51. | |
European Parliament. At PMQs, Mr Cameron reiterated that he was | :08:51. | :08:56. | |
committed to the 30% target, and in his words, nothing is going to | :08:56. | :09:02. | |
change that. He added, I will work on my any pace. So the question | :09:02. | :09:06. | |
today is, do those MEPs feel a little bit like they have been work | :09:06. | :09:12. | |
done? Andrew is going to find out. It is a very good question. We | :09:12. | :09:16. | |
asked for a minister to defend the Government's support for this 30% | :09:16. | :09:19. | |
target, but strangely none was available. We are delighted to be | :09:19. | :09:24. | |
joined from Brussels by a Conservative MEP Roger Helmer, and | :09:24. | :09:28. | |
in the studio in Westminster we have Liberal Democrat MP Duncan | :09:28. | :09:32. | |
Hames. Well can do both. Roger Helmer, are you voting against | :09:32. | :09:37. | |
these targets because you think they are economically damaging or | :09:37. | :09:42. | |
because you do not think Climate Change Act is such a big deal? | :09:42. | :09:45. | |
you may be surprised that I am voting against them because I think | :09:45. | :09:50. | |
they are bad for the environment. These proposals do not make sense | :09:50. | :09:54. | |
in economic or environmental terms. They will simply drive jobs, | :09:54. | :09:59. | |
production and investment out of the EU entirely, and into other | :09:59. | :10:03. | |
jurisdictions with lower standards. Instead of one tonne of CO2 in | :10:03. | :10:07. | |
Britain, you would get two tonnes in China. I cannot see how that is | :10:07. | :10:12. | |
any good for the environment or for anybody except the Chinese. Duncan | :10:12. | :10:16. | |
Hames, there is a trend for heavy industry to leave Europe and go to | :10:16. | :10:20. | |
the emerging markets. If you put on these heavy targets which will | :10:20. | :10:23. | |
raise the cost of doing business here, you simply reinforce that | :10:23. | :10:28. | |
trend. Well, he is way behind the curve in this debate if he does not | :10:28. | :10:30. | |
think China is trying to reduce the carpet intensity of its own | :10:30. | :10:36. | |
economic activity. But not a 30% target like ours, they open a new | :10:36. | :10:40. | |
coalmine every week. We need to make sure we have the jobs which | :10:40. | :10:44. | |
will be sustainable in the future. What you say to his point that jobs | :10:44. | :10:48. | |
would go? The Tory position in Europe has more to do with the fact | :10:48. | :10:50. | |
that their only friends in the European Parliament are a right- | :10:50. | :10:55. | |
wing Polish party who are worried about their jobs. He is putting | :10:55. | :10:58. | |
their interests ahead of British economic policy, which is | :10:58. | :11:04. | |
astounding. Lay the ball, not the man. Never mind his Polish allies, | :11:04. | :11:08. | |
answer his question. If you make these targets to strike, stricter | :11:08. | :11:14. | |
than anybody else, as ours are at 30%, we will lose jobs to the | :11:14. | :11:17. | |
emerging markets. What is the counter argument, that is all I'm | :11:17. | :11:20. | |
asking. The whole point of negotiations across Europe is to | :11:20. | :11:24. | |
ensure that within a larger economic bloc, there is a level | :11:24. | :11:28. | |
playing field. That is why we are working with you on a common target. | :11:28. | :11:35. | |
That is why we are trying to work internationally, and frankly to say | :11:35. | :11:39. | |
that we should not take part in international agreements, that we | :11:39. | :11:43. | |
should sign with whoever the lifeguards in this debate is not | :11:43. | :11:52. | |
really in the interests of our We in Britain now have this tougher | :11:52. | :11:57. | |
target of 30%, when it at least makes sense to get a level playing | :11:57. | :12:00. | |
field if we went along with the rest of Europe having that targets, | :12:00. | :12:08. | |
too? Well, the whole idea of a 30% target is, of course, absurd. The | :12:08. | :12:11. | |
Liberal Democrat wants to lead on this issue, but nobody else is | :12:11. | :12:15. | |
following. I'm not voting to be nice to our Polish colleagues, | :12:15. | :12:18. | |
although I'm happy to be nice to them. I'm voting for a common sense | :12:18. | :12:24. | |
policy in Britain. What is the answer to my question? If you would | :12:24. | :12:27. | |
stop playing the man and start playing the ball, what is the | :12:27. | :12:32. | |
answer to my point? We have got this very tough standard, so it | :12:32. | :12:36. | |
would be helpful if the rest of Europe had a tough standard as well. | :12:36. | :12:41. | |
Well, some of my colleagues would be prepared to vote for 30% if the | :12:41. | :12:44. | |
rest of the world went for it. But the rest of the world is not going | :12:44. | :12:50. | |
for 30%. We should not have 30%. We will not be able to deliver, and | :12:50. | :12:53. | |
the sooner that the coalition government recognises that its | :12:53. | :12:57. | |
policies do not make sense, do not do any good for the environment and | :12:57. | :13:02. | |
are damaging the economy and are going to force homers into fuel | :13:02. | :13:05. | |
poverty, pensioners will literally die because of what we are doing in | :13:06. | :13:09. | |
terms of bringing policies. This whole programme needs to be | :13:09. | :13:13. | |
reviewed. There is a growing head of steam, both within Brussels and | :13:13. | :13:19. | |
in Westminster, to look at it again. We cannot go on with this folly. | :13:19. | :13:24. | |
a time when fuel prices are rising rapidly, we have just seen huge | :13:24. | :13:28. | |
increases with Scottish Power, and we also know that the poorer you | :13:28. | :13:31. | |
are, the more of your income you have to spend on fuel as well as | :13:31. | :13:37. | |
food, does it make sense for greens like you to be having the fuel | :13:37. | :13:41. | |
bills of ordinary people who are struggling to afford it? You're | :13:41. | :13:45. | |
already adding �200 on to the average fuel bill with these | :13:45. | :13:49. | |
policies. Prices are rising in line with the oil price, and what we | :13:49. | :13:54. | |
need for those people is to get energy bills off the fossil fuel | :13:54. | :13:58. | |
them. Even if prices keep going up, we can get energy bills down | :13:58. | :14:02. | |
through measures such as the Green deal, which we are putting through | :14:02. | :14:06. | |
Parliament at this moment. I will repeat this again. Energy bills are | :14:06. | :14:12. | |
already rising because of world oil and gas prices, and because nuclear | :14:12. | :14:16. | |
power is in retreat at the moment. You are increasing that rise. It is | :14:16. | :14:23. | |
rising even more because of your green policies. Well, it is. It all | :14:23. | :14:27. | |
depends on the oil price level. make electricity companies by twice | :14:27. | :14:31. | |
the market rate for onshore wind power, three times for offshore. Is | :14:31. | :14:36. | |
it fair to poor people that you are increasing their bills in that way? | :14:36. | :14:39. | |
What is there for poorer people is the Green deal on energy, which | :14:39. | :14:44. | |
will ensure that we reduce energy consumption and their energy bills. | :14:44. | :14:48. | |
Whilst we cannot control prices, we can work to reduce people's bills, | :14:48. | :14:51. | |
which addresses the very concerns about fuel poverty which you quite | :14:51. | :14:56. | |
reasonably raised. There is no sign that bills will fall and the future. | :14:56. | :15:00. | |
Under this measure, they will rise. Not if we do not get them off the | :15:01. | :15:05. | |
oil crisis. Nothing you are doing well do that. The Prime Minister | :15:05. | :15:10. | |
said he would work a new, have you been worked over? -- he would work | :15:10. | :15:18. | |
We haven't been worked over. I have heard nothing from London. As far | :15:18. | :15:22. | |
as I know, my colleagues haven't. see. There's been no pressure. Can | :15:22. | :15:28. | |
I go back on that last point? Andrew, you were right about wind | :15:28. | :15:35. | |
power. It is disingenuous to say prices for electricity are lining | :15:35. | :15:39. | |
with the oil price. No, they are not. They are rising much higher. | :15:39. | :15:45. | |
All right. A lot of old people die from the cold in winter? There are | :15:45. | :15:50. | |
a lot of other ways of keeping people alive rather than juggling | :15:50. | :15:57. | |
oil prices. Quite clearly, the Green Agenda is a long-term agenda. | :15:57. | :16:02. | |
To be dicing around with short-term consequences as a way of blocking | :16:02. | :16:05. | |
the long-term engagement is folly. We have to take on the long-term | :16:06. | :16:10. | |
issues. Is it right to be increasing the fuel bills of the | :16:10. | :16:16. | |
old and poor at a time when their fuel bills are already rising? | :16:16. | :16:21. | |
way to tackle that is to deal with the problems of the old and poor | :16:21. | :16:31. | |
:16:31. | :16:33. | ||
which after all caused many other remedies too. Other people can bear | :16:33. | :16:38. | |
the burden who can afford it. you for that. Give us a call if the | :16:38. | :16:43. | |
Prime Minister threatens you at any stage. I will let you know! Thank | :16:43. | :16:49. | |
you. Now, here is a question: Why spend �9,000 an English university | :16:49. | :16:54. | |
Ze agree when you can get a cheaper degree somewhere else in Europe? -- | :16:54. | :16:59. | |
degree when you can get a cheaper degree somewhere else in Europe? | :16:59. | :17:07. | |
The University of Groningen is a particularly popular destination | :17:07. | :17:10. | |
for British students where numbers have increased from a handful a few | :17:10. | :17:15. | |
years ago to more than 100 thousand-of-this year. Paul Henley | :17:15. | :17:22. | |
sampled the student life -- 100,000 this year. Paul Henley sampled the | :17:22. | :17:25. | |
student life. Choosing to study abroad doesn't necessarily mean you | :17:25. | :17:32. | |
have to give up the familiar comfort of a student night out. | :17:32. | :17:39. | |
This man is finishing his first year at Groningen University. He is | :17:39. | :17:44. | |
from St Albans. At a Dutch student comedy night with his friends and | :17:44. | :17:49. | |
flatmates, some of the jokes might be lost in translation. I'll take | :17:49. | :17:54. | |
care of the booze, lady! A few pints probably help. LAUGHTER | :17:54. | :17:58. | |
Netherlands is one of the few places in Europe you can study | :17:58. | :18:01. | |
entirely in English and get by in daily life without the local | :18:01. | :18:08. | |
language. And you can live quite cheaply here. Welcome to my humble | :18:08. | :18:14. | |
abode. He shares a big flat with three other students paying just | :18:14. | :18:18. | |
over �400 a month. This is Adrian's corner! He missed his A-level grade | :18:18. | :18:22. | |
force the university he wanted in the UK, heard about the Dutch | :18:22. | :18:26. | |
option and realised he was on to a winner, even if it meant being a | :18:26. | :18:30. | |
pioneer. It feels unique, it feels like I am doing some independent. | :18:30. | :18:36. | |
Groningen is in the top 150 of most university world rankings, | :18:36. | :18:40. | |
somewhere on a par with Liverpool or Leeds in the UK. Once you know | :18:40. | :18:44. | |
the facts, it seems less a question of why study in the Netherlands | :18:44. | :18:52. | |
than why not? His annual tuition fee of �1,500 sounds good compared | :18:52. | :18:57. | |
to the �9,000 in the UK. It sounds better when you know he can claim | :18:57. | :19:00. | |
it back from the Dutch government. If he works eight hours a week, he | :19:00. | :19:06. | |
can also get a grant of �250 a month and free rail travel anywhere | :19:06. | :19:11. | |
in the country. That is out of gratitude, he's chosen to have | :19:11. | :19:17. | |
Dutch lessons. Dutch universities aren't part of the British UCAS | :19:17. | :19:23. | |
system yet but they are working on it and applying doesn't sound | :19:23. | :19:26. | |
complicated. You contact us through the website. If A-levels are | :19:26. | :19:33. | |
sufficient, you are admitted. higher education might still be an | :19:33. | :19:38. | |
unusual one for a British person, but maybe not for long. I would | :19:38. | :19:42. | |
recommend it. Surprised more people haven't come here. Joan Bakewell is | :19:42. | :19:47. | |
still with us. Norman Tebbit did say "get on your bike" but he | :19:47. | :19:51. | |
didn't mean sending some of our brightest people to the Netherlands. | :19:51. | :19:56. | |
What do you make of it? I think it is a wonderful idea. The more | :19:56. | :20:00. | |
students across Europe that go to each other's universities the more | :20:00. | :20:04. | |
we will understand each other. I think it will be wonderful. Getting | :20:04. | :20:10. | |
on your bike will be perfect for Amsterdam. Won't it be one-way | :20:10. | :20:15. | |
traffic? If they can get an education for free, or very | :20:15. | :20:20. | |
subsidised, we are charging �9,000 a year, who is going to come here? | :20:20. | :20:25. | |
Well, there are lots of people now among our student body who want to | :20:25. | :20:31. | |
go to universities who might well find a better niche abroad. I think | :20:31. | :20:36. | |
that would be to spread the culture. I mean, we have too many students | :20:36. | :20:39. | |
really than our universities can take. I think that would be a | :20:39. | :20:44. | |
terrific way of spreading the load and bringing other students here | :20:44. | :20:47. | |
who might be specialists in particular subjects which we are | :20:47. | :20:51. | |
particularly good. Specialists or rich? Doesn't the matter of tuition | :20:51. | :20:56. | |
fees going up - we have had that argument many times. Does it mean | :20:56. | :21:00. | |
we are the bastions for rich people's education? That is so. So | :21:00. | :21:06. | |
we do have a two tier system. So let the market decide. Let the | :21:06. | :21:09. | |
students go abroad and see that they get a good education for less | :21:09. | :21:14. | |
and if we believe in a market economy, it should come right. | :21:14. | :21:17. | |
the market decide? If the market decides and there are numerous | :21:17. | :21:21. | |
courses which will no longer be offered in this country because the | :21:21. | :21:26. | |
market says you don't earn that much when you do them, and you are | :21:26. | :21:29. | |
not... You don't have to pay back your student loan of course. You | :21:29. | :21:32. | |
only pay back your student loan when you have made a good living | :21:32. | :21:36. | |
out of having the degree. You are comfortable with the fact there is | :21:36. | :21:40. | |
not an even playing field in Europe? I'm - that is an | :21:40. | :21:44. | |
abstraction. I like the idea of a lot of young people going to each | :21:44. | :21:51. | |
other's country to study. Before any of you start tweeting, | :21:51. | :21:55. | |
we are aware that European students do not pay fees at Scottish | :21:55. | :22:00. | |
universities. Before you start tweeting further, we are aware that | :22:00. | :22:06. | |
English students do pay fees at Scottish universities. When it | :22:07. | :22:15. | |
comes to plates, you keep spinning them. A circus cliche? Yes, but | :22:15. | :22:18. | |
this story is about circuses. A cross-party group of MPs will | :22:18. | :22:24. | |
attempt to change the law banning the use of wild animals in circuses | :22:24. | :22:27. | |
in England. Yes, only England. It is Westminster. It's a practice | :22:28. | :22:32. | |
they believe to be cruel. The Government prefers a licensing | :22:32. | :22:36. | |
regime and as Adam Fleming discovered, circuses that use lions, | :22:36. | :22:40. | |
tigers and elephants, they vigorously defend the practice. | :22:40. | :22:44. | |
Recently pitched up in this field in Surrey, the Great British Circus, | :22:44. | :22:51. | |
its owner is one of the few who still keeps wild animals. General | :22:51. | :22:56. | |
Motors has gone bust and I am still here. The public want us. They | :22:56. | :22:59. | |
support us. We really ought to be listening to the people who vote | :22:59. | :23:05. | |
with their feet. The punters here do seem happy. Mostly. I can see | :23:05. | :23:10. | |
both sides but as long as everything is by the book, it's | :23:10. | :23:19. | |
fair. I do like to see animals in the wild. I love the animals. | :23:19. | :23:22. | |
Martin wouldn't allow our cameras behind-the-scenes but he showed me | :23:22. | :23:27. | |
where the animals were kept. Back there, there are five tigers, | :23:27. | :23:31. | |
camels, llamas, even some reindeer. They are all in cages, some of them | :23:31. | :23:35. | |
with electric fences, but they have all got shade and water and to this | :23:35. | :23:39. | |
untrained eye they didn't look unhealthy. That won't reassure | :23:39. | :23:44. | |
concerned MPs and campaigners who say this amounts to mistreatment. | :23:44. | :23:49. | |
And nowadays protesters are as much a part of circus life as clowns and | :23:49. | :23:53. | |
candy floss. They point to secret filming like this from earlier this | :23:53. | :23:57. | |
year, an elephant called Ann from another zoo. The courts are daily | :23:57. | :24:01. | |
full of pet owners who don't care for their animals properly. Since | :24:01. | :24:06. | |
1932, there have been seven cases of mistreatment of animals, seven. | :24:06. | :24:10. | |
Seven too many, but compared with the rest of the animal-keeping | :24:10. | :24:15. | |
world, it is not a bad record. These horses are domesticated so | :24:15. | :24:18. | |
don't count as wild animals. The Government's preferred solution to | :24:18. | :24:22. | |
all this is a new system of licences, but that is not enough | :24:22. | :24:28. | |
for the backbenchers pushing for a total ban. Welcome to big tent | :24:28. | :24:32. | |
politics. See what he did there? We are | :24:32. | :24:36. | |
joined by the Conservative MP Mark Pritchard who wants to see a ban on | :24:36. | :24:43. | |
the use of non-domestic animals in circuses. There seems to be a | :24:43. | :24:49. | |
three-line whip out to block your move. Why? That is something for | :24:49. | :24:53. | |
the Whip's Office. I am rather surprised. 92% of the public want | :24:53. | :24:59. | |
to see a ban on wild animals in circuses, 64% of MPs said they want | :25:00. | :25:05. | |
to see a ban. An Early Day Motion has attracted over 200 MPs. It is | :25:05. | :25:09. | |
in the top ten of Early Day Motions. There is wide support for a ban, | :25:09. | :25:15. | |
not only in Parliament, but also outside of Parliament. In view of | :25:15. | :25:22. | |
that level of support, why would your leader want to thwart your | :25:22. | :25:27. | |
ambition? I have seen some of the rumour mill on the blogs, I'm not | :25:27. | :25:30. | |
going to comment on conversations I may or may not have had with | :25:30. | :25:34. | |
officials from Number Ten. A lot of colleagues have telephoned me this | :25:34. | :25:41. | |
morning and say they are rather perplexed why Number Ten have taken | :25:41. | :25:44. | |
a personal interest in this. The Government is very busy given we | :25:44. | :25:48. | |
are at war in two places, we have a public deficit to deal with, and | :25:48. | :25:53. | |
yet they are applying a three-line whip on the ban, the use of wild | :25:53. | :25:58. | |
animals in circuses. Have you been told Mark, get into line here? | :25:58. | :26:02. | |
not going to comment on what conversations I may or may not have | :26:02. | :26:07. | |
had. Yes, then? I get calls from all sorts of people in different | :26:07. | :26:11. | |
parts of the party all of the time. That is a question perhaps you need | :26:11. | :26:15. | |
to put to Number Ten. All I do know is that there's wide support for | :26:15. | :26:21. | |
this ban. I'm very perplexed why there's been a three-line whip put | :26:21. | :26:25. | |
on my motion. The Government tabled an amendment to my motion which | :26:25. | :26:31. | |
wouldn't bring aboutliness Let's talk about the amendment. What does | :26:31. | :26:36. | |
the amendment suggest? What is the Government's plan? I have had my | :26:36. | :26:40. | |
run-ins with Mr Speaker as Andrew knows. I have to put on record here | :26:40. | :26:45. | |
today on live television Mr Speaker has once again proven that he is a | :26:45. | :26:49. | |
champion for Parliament and a champion for the backbenchers. | :26:49. | :26:51. | |
Despite the fact 44 Members of Parliament signed the amendment | :26:51. | :26:56. | |
which would have blocked my motion being voted upon, the speaker has | :26:56. | :27:03. | |
not selected that amendment. It was a Government amendment Theyskens' | :27:03. | :27:13. | |
Theory got to 44 MPs. That is -- amendment which they got to 44 MPs | :27:13. | :27:19. | |
to sign. Forget about the mechanics. I won't ask you again. But in such | :27:19. | :27:22. | |
an important time in Parliament, what is the argument that is being | :27:22. | :27:26. | |
put forward by those who seek to thwart you as to why they are | :27:26. | :27:30. | |
trying to thwart you? I will answer that. I will address the licensing | :27:30. | :27:35. | |
point. The proposal is a licence of circuses. The problem is it will | :27:35. | :27:41. | |
give a green light for an import of a new generation of animals so | :27:41. | :27:45. | |
tigers, elephants, lions, zebras and camels. However well they may | :27:45. | :27:50. | |
or may not be treated, the fact is they are travelling all the time in | :27:50. | :27:54. | |
very cramped conditions, both housed and transported in cramped | :27:54. | :27:59. | |
conditions. I want to see an end to that. You don't know why they are | :27:59. | :28:04. | |
thwarting you? The Government is saying, the statement on 19th May, | :28:04. | :28:14. | |
:28:14. | :28:14. | ||
the parliamentary secretary came along and told the House, the fact | :28:14. | :28:19. | |
is the Government is saying that European Services Directive is | :28:19. | :28:23. | |
being breached, it is not. Thank you very much. A quick comment from | :28:23. | :28:29. | |
you? Circuses have moved on. The most successful circuses rely on | :28:29. | :28:32. | |
the brilliant ability of trapeze artists and that is what we want to | :28:32. | :28:40. | |
see. Thank you. Beware of the revenge of the clowns! The Guess | :28:40. | :28:45. | |
The Year - 1961, the year of the Bay of Pigs. You have to pick a | :28:45. | :28:52. |