Browse content similar to 24/06/2011. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Hello, welcome to the Daily Politics on Friday. Ed Miliband | :00:27. | :00:31. | |
wants to ditch elections to the Shadow Cabinet. A rejection of | :00:31. | :00:35. | |
internal party democracy or a strong leader exerting authority? | :00:35. | :00:40. | |
A test for all the parties in the by-election next week, we have been | :00:40. | :00:46. | |
too Inverclyde to find out if Labour can hold off the SNP. | :00:46. | :00:47. | |
And chaos in Greece, some say the single currency itself is under | :00:47. | :00:57. | |
:00:57. | :00:59. | ||
threat, but Tony Blair tells us he And joining me throughout the | :00:59. | :01:02. | |
programme, the Guardian's Zoe Williams and the Telegraph's Peter | :01:02. | :01:07. | |
Oborne. To discuss Ed Miliband's desire to the Shadow Cabinet, Jan | :01:07. | :01:13. | |
Royall and Jeremy Corbyn, welcome. Peter 01, is indeed doing the right | :01:13. | :01:17. | |
thing? It is an outdated way of electing people. He should just | :01:17. | :01:21. | |
choose his own team. It is against the constitution of the Labour | :01:21. | :01:25. | |
Party, and I think it is a disappointing affront to democracy, | :01:25. | :01:29. | |
in a funny way. It shows Ed Miliband is adopting the Brownite | :01:29. | :01:35. | |
methodology... Blair did not do it. He has gone further than black, | :01:35. | :01:41. | |
amazingly enough. Centralisation, hostile to democracy, controlling | :01:41. | :01:46. | |
power for the leadership. It is a really retrograde move. It is | :01:46. | :01:51. | |
presented by modernisers, but it is really old fashioned, it is the old | :01:51. | :01:57. | |
politics. The new politics is democracy, having to market took -- | :01:57. | :02:01. | |
having democratic elections to the Shadow Cabinet. Fairly passionate, | :02:01. | :02:05. | |
rather surprising. I'm surprised you are so passion about it, I must | :02:05. | :02:10. | |
say. I would think that the impulse would be, because nobody pays that | :02:10. | :02:13. | |
much attention to the Shadow Cabinet elections unless there is a | :02:13. | :02:17. | |
huge amount of conflict, and then everything is mired in who hates | :02:17. | :02:22. | |
whom and blah blah blah. It really withdraws from the message. I think | :02:22. | :02:27. | |
that is probably what Ed Miliband is thinking. All the talk of | :02:27. | :02:32. | |
backbiting and who Ed Balls hates next... Isn't that the point? | :02:32. | :02:35. | |
Members of the Shadow Cabinet, or people would like to be members, | :02:35. | :02:38. | |
should not be spending their time trying to get support from fellow | :02:38. | :02:43. | |
MPs. They should be trying to push forward won a message from the | :02:43. | :02:50. | |
Labour Party. All of that would go if they start having elections. | :02:50. | :02:54. | |
have not noticed one person showing any interest. It is a non-issue. | :02:54. | :02:57. | |
What it is his contrary to the whole direction of travel in | :02:57. | :03:02. | |
Parliament. After the reforms of last year, parliament reduced | :03:02. | :03:07. | |
patronage, increased elections, increased accountability, backbench | :03:07. | :03:12. | |
committees, election of the Shadow Cabinet, and then Ed chooses who | :03:12. | :03:17. | |
will fill each portfolio. What is wrong with that? What is wrong with | :03:17. | :03:21. | |
that degree of accountability? will not argue that he should be | :03:21. | :03:24. | |
able to choose the team he wants, he should be able to choose the | :03:24. | :03:27. | |
people that will best put forward the message and with whom he gets | :03:27. | :03:31. | |
on. The bid devilment of the British parliamentary system is | :03:31. | :03:37. | |
patronage. The package in -- the patronage of party leaders and the | :03:37. | :03:41. | |
establishment as a whole. We are playing straight into that whole | :03:41. | :03:44. | |
agenda by ending elections for the PLP and saying the leader will | :03:44. | :03:50. | |
choose. That means any new MP, the first thing, be nice to the leader, | :03:50. | :03:54. | |
agree with the leader, support the leader, put your brain on hold. | :03:54. | :03:59. | |
Jeremy says that there is nobody politicking to get into the Shadow | :03:59. | :04:01. | |
Cabinet, because that is because there is no election this year. | :04:01. | :04:09. | |
Well, quite. La steer it dominated the PLP for months. -- last year. | :04:09. | :04:13. | |
Everyone was inward-looking, to see what they should be doing. What | :04:13. | :04:19. | |
about the point that it is anti- democratic? This is to do with | :04:19. | :04:23. | |
internal party organisation. It is not anti-democratic. I was there in | :04:23. | :04:27. | |
the 1980s, and I know the frustrations of a leader who cannot | :04:27. | :04:31. | |
have the people he needs in the shadow cabinet. When Tony Blair got | :04:31. | :04:35. | |
to Downing Street, there were many disappointed people because they | :04:35. | :04:39. | |
had been in the Shadow Cabinet but when not in the Cabinet. This is an | :04:39. | :04:43. | |
internal party organisational issue. Isn't it just moving with the | :04:43. | :04:48. | |
times? This is about party politics. The times are going in exactly the | :04:48. | :04:53. | |
other direction. In Parliament, not necessarily with the party. I am | :04:53. | :04:56. | |
not sure about that. The whole debate about resounding Labour is | :04:56. | :05:01. | |
about empowering conference and constituency parties. 60,000 people | :05:01. | :05:07. | |
joined Labour for a cause, not to be actors on a stage. Peter. It is | :05:07. | :05:14. | |
unfair to be personal, but Baroness Royall started life as a Labour | :05:14. | :05:17. | |
Party press person, an apparatchik. Never elected to anything in your | :05:18. | :05:22. | |
life. You are the political class in action, which is out to | :05:22. | :05:28. | |
disenfranchise. Let Baroness Royall answer that! I am here because I | :05:28. | :05:33. | |
think it is a jolly good... No-one has selected due to be here. I put | :05:33. | :05:37. | |
my hands up, I have stood for election, no one has elected me. I | :05:37. | :05:43. | |
am also seeking election to the House of Lords. Double standards. | :05:43. | :05:48. | |
Absolutely not, we are talking about an internal party structure, | :05:48. | :05:51. | |
not democracy for the wider public. You're not saying that you should | :05:51. | :05:54. | |
have been elected by the rest of the party, she should have been | :05:54. | :06:00. | |
elected by the public. I was elected by my peers, I should say. | :06:00. | :06:04. | |
Can I just asked Jan Royall a question? Do you agree with Harriet | :06:04. | :06:10. | |
Harman that one of the top job should be occupied by a woman? | :06:10. | :06:13. | |
Why is Harriet Harman agreeing to getting rid of an scrapping the | :06:13. | :06:16. | |
quota of women in the Shadow Cabinet? I do not know what | :06:16. | :06:20. | |
discussions have gone on between add and Harriet Harman. I have to | :06:20. | :06:25. | |
say, I have not discussed this with Ed, but it is right and proper that | :06:25. | :06:29. | |
he should have, in his shadow cabinet, whomsoever he wants to | :06:29. | :06:32. | |
have, but it is important that at the top you have a man and a woman. | :06:32. | :06:38. | |
Jeremy? I agree with a quota for places for women, I agree with | :06:38. | :06:42. | |
elections to the Shadow Cabinet, and I think that the patronage of | :06:42. | :06:46. | |
the leader undermines the PLP and democracy. We are all elected as | :06:46. | :06:51. | |
Labour MPs. You think it is strange that Harriet Harman, who has been | :06:51. | :06:54. | |
such a proponent of women's rights and representation, has not | :06:54. | :06:58. | |
subjected to get here are getting rid of the quota? If she might have | :06:58. | :07:03. | |
done, but she might have been overruled. I hope she objected, | :07:03. | :07:06. | |
because when there was a consultation that went around | :07:06. | :07:11. | |
saying, what did you think about the quota for women? I replied that | :07:11. | :07:15. | |
I supported it, as I suspect a lot of other MPs did. There are no | :07:15. | :07:19. | |
elections to the Shadow Cabinet this year, and I think Ed has | :07:20. | :07:23. | |
panicked and thought, I have to get his pass the conference now. Labour | :07:23. | :07:28. | |
MPs heard about this last night, and there will be a vote on Monday | :07:28. | :07:32. | |
night. I think it is really important. This is a good time to | :07:32. | :07:35. | |
do it. We are talking about resounding Labour, there is a | :07:35. | :07:39. | |
national policy forum on Saturday, then it would go to the NEC asked | :07:39. | :07:45. | |
to conference. How many party members have asked for an end to | :07:45. | :07:49. | |
elections to the Shadow Cabinet? I suspect very few. Everyone is | :07:49. | :07:52. | |
saying that Ed Miliband should show more leadership, but he cannot if | :07:52. | :07:57. | |
he is taken up with battles within Cabinet. Is he? You lead by taking | :07:57. | :08:04. | |
a party with you, you lead from the front and on policy. But the party | :08:04. | :08:10. | |
is so rebellious, I do not see all these MPs thinking for themselves. | :08:10. | :08:17. | |
I beg your pardon! There is no need to be personal! It does not make | :08:17. | :08:22. | |
that much difference. You did not see the shadow cabinet diverting | :08:22. | :08:28. | |
from the party line under Tony Blair. The former MP for Cannock | :08:28. | :08:32. | |
produced reforms in parliament which are very good. They have made | :08:32. | :08:36. | |
MPs much more involved, there is more accountability, the election | :08:36. | :08:40. | |
of the Speaker, very good, and we support that, we applauded, it is | :08:40. | :08:45. | |
democratising Parliament. What are we doing with the PLP? It is not | :08:45. | :08:49. | |
very sensible at all. We are talking about Ed Miliband having a | :08:49. | :08:52. | |
Shadow Cabinet that he wants, so that they can take forward... | :08:52. | :08:57. | |
would get that anyway. He needs to take forward the policies that he | :08:57. | :09:01. | |
once so that we can win elections. He would get the Shadow Cabinet he | :09:01. | :09:06. | |
wants anyway, because the word goes around that the leader wants who he | :09:06. | :09:10. | |
wants. Is that do you voted for, Jeremy? It wasn't, and it never | :09:10. | :09:16. | |
will be. I have been in the PR before long time, and I have seen | :09:16. | :09:19. | |
the way that leaders and opposition have managed to get the Shadow | :09:19. | :09:23. | |
Cabinet they want. So what is the problem? If they are going to | :09:23. | :09:28. | |
dictate who they want... It is the safety bath of democracy. Thank you | :09:28. | :09:32. | |
very much. Labour's problems are not just | :09:32. | :09:35. | |
confined to who is in the Shadow Cabinet and how they get there. The | :09:35. | :09:38. | |
party's traditional base, the working class, is shrinking. | :09:38. | :09:42. | |
Deborah Mattinson, who did a lot of bowling for Gordon Brown, has been | :09:42. | :09:45. | |
looking at how this affects politics and political strategy. I | :09:45. | :09:49. | |
will be talking to her in a moment, but first what has the research | :09:49. | :09:53. | |
found out? The vast majority, nearly three-quarters, say they are | :09:53. | :09:58. | |
middle-class. Less than one and four claim to be working class. | :09:58. | :10:01. | |
Absolutely no one said that they were upper-class. While the | :10:01. | :10:04. | |
majority of the working class were still vote Labour, most of them | :10:05. | :10:07. | |
feel all politicians do not understand them and they are far | :10:07. | :10:13. | |
less likely to vote than the middle classes. The work will classes -- | :10:13. | :10:16. | |
the working classes see Tony Blair as having moved the Labour Party | :10:17. | :10:20. | |
away from the working class, while Margaret Thatcher is seen as a hero | :10:20. | :10:23. | |
for selling them their hat council houses but a villain for closing | :10:23. | :10:27. | |
down traditional industries. The working class are also desperate to | :10:27. | :10:31. | |
be distinguished from the lower class, the spongers and antisocial | :10:31. | :10:33. | |
yobs who politicians regularly referred to when talking about | :10:33. | :10:38. | |
responsibility. Deborah Mattinson is here now. From Manchester, we | :10:38. | :10:42. | |
are joined by conservative MP Graham Evans, who was proud of his | :10:42. | :10:46. | |
working-class roots. Deborah Mattinson, how important his class | :10:46. | :10:53. | |
in politics today? I think it still matters a lot. What we are finding, | :10:53. | :10:56. | |
particularly with the working-class self- identifiers in our sample, | :10:56. | :11:00. | |
was that they feel stuck. They feel that they cannot go anywhere, that | :11:00. | :11:03. | |
they are getting a very rough deal. They cannot go anywhere | :11:03. | :11:09. | |
politically? There is no social mobility. They feel they cannot go | :11:09. | :11:12. | |
anywhere, and they feel that they are clinging on to what they have | :11:12. | :11:15. | |
with their fingernails, and they are desperately trying to stop | :11:15. | :11:18. | |
themselves from dropping down into this 4th class that they identify, | :11:18. | :11:24. | |
the lower class, the underclass, the chap class. They feel that | :11:24. | :11:27. | |
there is a real risk that they could topple over the edge at any | :11:27. | :11:32. | |
point. How does that affect them politically? How do they vote? | :11:32. | :11:37. | |
are more likely to say they vote Labour, but the truth is that a lot | :11:37. | :11:42. | |
of them will not vote at all. Half of the worst of of the working | :11:42. | :11:46. | |
class simply will not vote. It is something we have seen in turnouts | :11:46. | :11:50. | |
in safe Labour seats, turnout slipping away. They feel that all | :11:50. | :11:53. | |
politicians are all the same, that they are all looking after their | :11:53. | :11:58. | |
own careers, nobody understands people like them. But crucially, | :11:58. | :12:06. | |
Carlos do not vote atoll. Graham Evans, as far as you are concerned, | :12:06. | :12:10. | |
you feel there is an assumption from voters that Labour is the | :12:10. | :12:14. | |
party of the working class? Yes, to a certain extent. When I was | :12:14. | :12:19. | |
campaigning in a working-class area in general elections, I was | :12:19. | :12:22. | |
surprised that most people had not actually met a politician on their | :12:22. | :12:26. | |
doorstep. They were really quite surprised not just to see a | :12:26. | :12:29. | |
politician on their doorstep but a Conservative politician. What did | :12:29. | :12:33. | |
that mean? Does it mean they would ever be likely to vote | :12:33. | :12:37. | |
Conservative? As the only Conservative on the Mersey estuary, | :12:37. | :12:41. | |
I think there may be something in that. I believe that a lot of | :12:41. | :12:45. | |
people who did not ordinarily vote Conservative or did not vote | :12:45. | :12:49. | |
Conservative at all, they met me on the doorstep, they gave me the | :12:49. | :12:52. | |
benefit of the doubt and gave me a chance in Parliament. All parties | :12:52. | :12:56. | |
are guilty of not going out onto the streets and on to the doorstep | :12:56. | :13:01. | |
and campaigning at that level. of the problems, though, for Labour | :13:01. | :13:05. | |
in particular, from the research that Deborah Mattinson has got, is | :13:05. | :13:07. | |
this dramatic reversal of the middle-class support for Labour | :13:08. | :13:12. | |
going to the Conservatives. Sure, and I think there is a problem with | :13:12. | :13:17. | |
the Labour Party's support in particular, in which, with Tony | :13:17. | :13:20. | |
Blair's thing of everybody being middle class, they managed to | :13:20. | :13:24. | |
criminalise poverty, because the only people who were not what the | :13:24. | :13:29. | |
ASBO classes. I think a lot of people kind of sort New Labour as | :13:29. | :13:32. | |
having such a strong identification with the middle classes that they | :13:32. | :13:36. | |
had no real time for anything. Their only policies were designed | :13:36. | :13:40. | |
to draw people into the middle class, rather than make things | :13:40. | :13:44. | |
better for people in the working class. I do not think that is quite | :13:44. | :13:48. | |
true. In a way, that is a distinction that working-class | :13:48. | :13:51. | |
identifiers are very keen to make themselves. Working class is about | :13:51. | :13:57. | |
work. Asked people and focus groups to bring in a symbol of their class, | :13:57. | :14:00. | |
and middle-class people brought along lifestyle things. Working- | :14:00. | :14:05. | |
class people bought the tools of their trade, work boots, gloves. | :14:05. | :14:09. | |
There is a real class that feels neglected. I certainly do not think | :14:09. | :14:13. | |
that the country things like that, but that is an new line | :14:13. | :14:17. | |
representative for a long time. Listening to your report about the | :14:17. | :14:20. | |
end of social mobility and people stuck in effectively a ghetto, this | :14:21. | :14:25. | |
was after 10 years of the Labour government. It is so shaming, what | :14:25. | :14:29. | |
Blair was like, that he turned his back quite deliberately or naked | :14:29. | :14:34. | |
electrical reasons on the working class. Isn't that what you have to | :14:34. | :14:38. | |
do politically? Appeal to the biggest class? He won three | :14:38. | :14:42. | |
elections. It was a decision made by a Labour Prime Minister to turn | :14:42. | :14:46. | |
his back on the working class. As a result, you are seeing this | :14:46. | :14:49. | |
fascinating thing is that they will not vote. The danger is they will | :14:49. | :14:53. | |
turn away from conventional politics and go to the BNP. I did | :14:53. | :14:58. | |
ask about that, and there's not much evidence of it. I had a lot of | :14:58. | :15:03. | |
photographs of politicians to show them, and I gave up. They barely | :15:03. | :15:09. | |
recognise David Cameron, let alone anyone else, and I'm not joking. | :15:09. | :15:12. | |
The point that Graham Evans made was that they had not seen a | :15:12. | :15:16. | |
politician at all. Worryingly for the Conservatives, it is a lack of | :15:16. | :15:20. | |
presence electorally in a lot of the northern towns and cities. Can | :15:20. | :15:25. | |
that be dealt with? You mentioned Manchester and Liverpool, but we | :15:26. | :15:29. | |
have Trafford council, which is an outstanding Conservative council, | :15:29. | :15:35. | |
but Labour have an irrelevance across the country. There won no | :15:35. | :15:38. | |
councillors in the south-east, the south-west and East Anglia. We | :15:38. | :15:43. | |
always talk about the city centres, but Labour have an irrelevance in | :15:43. | :15:52. | |
Do you think the Conservatives, is it worth them bothering trying to | :15:52. | :15:59. | |
make deep inroads into the other towns and cities in the North? Yes. | :15:59. | :16:03. | |
I'm living proof that if Conservatives campaign in the | :16:03. | :16:08. | |
cities, and traditional working class areas, he will elect a | :16:08. | :16:12. | |
Conservative MP. When ip was growing up on a council estate, the | :16:12. | :16:17. | |
clue is in the name - working class. We all worked. I don't remember any | :16:17. | :16:21. | |
families out of work. I don't remember any benefits. What we have | :16:21. | :16:26. | |
now with the working classs is they live next door to people on | :16:26. | :16:32. | |
benefits. When people get up, goo the right things, alarm clock | :16:32. | :16:37. | |
Britain, they will find when they are off to work they will see the | :16:37. | :16:42. | |
curtains drawn of their next door neighbours. That wasn't around when | :16:42. | :16:49. | |
I was growing up in the 1970s. terms of welfare reforms, is it | :16:49. | :16:53. | |
wrong to lump the working class together, whereas this is a | :16:54. | :16:58. | |
distinction between people who work and people they see as benefits | :16:58. | :17:02. | |
cheats and scroungers? There are, a lot of people in our sample were | :17:02. | :17:07. | |
not working themselves. We had young, teenage mums in our sample, | :17:07. | :17:13. | |
people who were on sick leave, and so on. I asked them what was the | :17:13. | :17:16. | |
difference between you and scroungers and they said it was | :17:16. | :17:20. | |
because they wanted to work. It is about reaching out to people who | :17:20. | :17:26. | |
feel they want to work but aren't getting a leg up. Deborah Mattinson | :17:26. | :17:33. | |
and Graham Evans, thank you. Ed Miliband is facing his MPs next | :17:33. | :17:38. | |
week about ditching the shadow cabinet elections. Labour in a | :17:38. | :17:44. | |
majority of 14,000 in Inverclyde but in the Scottish elections last | :17:44. | :17:49. | |
month the SNP slashed that back to 5 00 votes in the nearest | :17:49. | :17:53. | |
constituency. Now there is an election following the death of the | :17:53. | :17:58. | |
MP, David Cairns. The history of this seat is dominated by | :17:58. | :18:03. | |
shipbuilding, and voting for Labour. Labour held on to this constituency | :18:03. | :18:07. | |
at last year's general election, winning 56 % of the vote, giving | :18:07. | :18:11. | |
them a majority of more than 14,000. But since then, Scottish politics | :18:11. | :18:15. | |
has changed considerably, with the SNP winning a historic majority at | :18:15. | :18:24. | |
the Scottish Parliament a couple of months ago. This campaign is being | :18:24. | :18:25. | |
scrutinised for whether the SNP can build on their recent bounce, | :18:25. | :18:29. | |
whether Labour can still hit the sweet spot in its heard land, and | :18:29. | :18:32. | |
whether the coalition parties aft Westminster can stay relevant north | :18:32. | :18:39. | |
of the border, and, trivia fans, it is the birthplace of James Watt, | :18:39. | :18:44. | |
father of the Industrial Revolution, and soon to be the face on the new | :18:44. | :18:51. | |
�50. Do you know who is on the back of it? It looks like James Watt. | :18:51. | :18:57. | |
Congratulations, a local boy done good. It is my grand-dad?. Looks | :18:57. | :19:03. | |
like him. Famous local resident from the past. Steam enjoin gins? | :19:03. | :19:13. | |
:19:13. | :19:14. | ||
Oh, jaims -- James Watt. Steam engine? Damn it! I knew I should | :19:14. | :19:19. | |
have paid attention in science lessons. Do you recognise that | :19:19. | :19:26. | |
person? It is Adam Smith. Or is it James Watt. If you had �50 to spend | :19:26. | :19:30. | |
on each constituent what would you spend it on? Getting jobs. They are | :19:30. | :19:33. | |
telling me it is jobs and employment they are looking for. | :19:34. | :19:37. | |
think the most important thing for people round here is the issue of | :19:37. | :19:44. | |
jobs. I would spend it on collectively on regeneration rating | :19:44. | :19:48. | |
and reindustrialising Inverclyde. Probably give them a discount on | :19:48. | :19:51. | |
the council tax, particularly for pensioners, that's something that's | :19:51. | :19:57. | |
hitting them quite hard. The �50 I would spnd on trying to create jobs. | :19:57. | :20:02. | |
And I would encourage small and medium-sized enterprises. So, with | :20:02. | :20:06. | |
little to divide the candidates on the issues, who is the smart, fake | :20:06. | :20:12. | |
money on? Labour. Did you reckon? Yes. It probably will be Labour but | :20:12. | :20:18. | |
I would like to see the SNP getting in We are due a wee change. I don't | :20:18. | :20:23. | |
think Labour has done much. The Tories have not done much, so why | :20:23. | :20:29. | |
not give the SNP a chance. Would bet �50 on them winning? If you | :20:29. | :20:33. | |
gave us 50 quid! The Scottish nationalists do have support here. | :20:33. | :20:38. | |
If they can turn this from a safe Labour seat to a marginal, or win | :20:38. | :20:48. | |
:20:48. | :20:51. | ||
it, the landscape of Scottish Perhaps the most important issue of | :20:51. | :20:55. | |
the day, even the year, is whether the economic crisis in Greece could | :20:55. | :20:58. | |
pull down the European economy and even endanger the euro itself. | :20:58. | :21:03. | |
David Cameron is in Brussels today meeting the Greek Prime Minister. | :21:04. | :21:07. | |
Many Euro-sceptics who were always opposed to the single currency are | :21:07. | :21:12. | |
saying, "I told you so." But former Prime Minister Tony Blair still | :21:12. | :21:15. | |
thinks Britain should join in future when the economic conditions | :21:15. | :21:18. | |
are right. This is him talking to Jon Sopel in an interview tobacco | :21:18. | :21:21. | |
broadcast in full on Sunday's Politics Show. I was always | :21:21. | :21:25. | |
absolutely in favour of doing it politically and still am, by the | :21:25. | :21:28. | |
way. I've always said since it is an economic union the economics | :21:28. | :21:32. | |
have got to be right. Now, I don't actually take the view that some | :21:32. | :21:36. | |
take that Britain joining if euro in the past or now would be a | :21:36. | :21:40. | |
disaster. However, I always said, unless you can make a compelling | :21:40. | :21:49. | |
case for it economically you'll never win a referendum on it. And | :21:49. | :21:50. | |
the case for Britain joining isn't compelling. It may become that at a | :21:50. | :21:54. | |
certain point. You can see the full interview with Tony Blair on Sunday | :21:54. | :22:01. | |
at 11 o'clock. Peter Oborne, Tony Blair is still sticking to his guns | :22:01. | :22:09. | |
on the euro. A few weeks back, that reminds me of the man a few weeks | :22:09. | :22:12. | |
ago who predict the end of the world. And that is Tony Blair. He | :22:12. | :22:18. | |
still won't learn. It is impossible to pin down, these pro-euros. | :22:18. | :22:23. | |
as you might. Hasn't he got Gordon Brown to thank for that? He kept | :22:24. | :22:27. | |
them out of the euro. I know this is the fashionable thing to say, | :22:27. | :22:32. | |
but if you can present me from a quote from Mr Brown to say the euro | :22:32. | :22:36. | |
is other than a good thing, I would be interested to see it. There is | :22:36. | :22:42. | |
nothing on the record from Mr Brown saying the euro would be... He kept | :22:42. | :22:45. | |
himself off the record during that entire period. You may be better | :22:45. | :22:51. | |
informed what goes on behind the scenes, but I have this view... | :22:51. | :22:56. | |
think he is being sarcastic. Do you find it surprising that Tony Blair | :22:56. | :23:00. | |
is still saying that if the economic conditions were right we | :23:01. | :23:06. | |
should join the euro? For the economic conditions to be right the | :23:06. | :23:11. | |
eurozone would have to restabilise, and we would need to know there | :23:11. | :23:16. | |
would never be a bust again. This is pie in the sky stuff. He can say | :23:16. | :23:19. | |
what he likes and he knows the economic conditions would not be | :23:19. | :23:23. | |
right. You said recently you feel David Cameron is the most pro- | :23:23. | :23:28. | |
European Tory leader since Ted Heath? Yes. Where is your evidence | :23:29. | :23:33. | |
for that If you can provide me with any evidence that as Prime Minister | :23:33. | :23:40. | |
he's done a single think that could be construed azure o sceptic... | :23:40. | :23:46. | |
Back in the French Foreign Minister to go to the IMF and turn, where | :23:46. | :23:52. | |
she will allow the IMF to be the vehicle for the eurozone countries. | :23:52. | :23:59. | |
He kept us out of the Greek bail- out. There'll be support for that | :23:59. | :24:04. | |
Backing a French leader of the IMF is not pro-euro. It is not wanting | :24:04. | :24:09. | |
somebody from a developing European nation not to do something sudden | :24:09. | :24:12. | |
than you weren't expecting. There is a debate between the old | :24:12. | :24:17. | |
countries - Europe - and India, China, Brazil, South Africa, | :24:17. | :24:21. | |
Nigeria. It is fascinating that Britain has backed France, who've | :24:21. | :24:24. | |
traditionally owned that job. What's your other evidence? | :24:24. | :24:32. | |
first thing he did in office when he signed us up to Alistair | :24:32. | :24:38. | |
Darling's final act, to squander �12 billion of taxpayers money in | :24:38. | :24:43. | |
sending good money after bad. that Ireland? No, the stability | :24:43. | :24:50. | |
fund in May last year. There's a whole load of other examples. The | :24:50. | :24:55. | |
failure of the European arrest warrant. He has turned into a | :24:55. | :24:59. | |
classic Prime Minister in office. Do you think so? No, this is | :24:59. | :25:04. | |
ridiculous. He couldn't have come in and immediately vetoed the | :25:04. | :25:08. | |
stabilisation fund. He could have done. It is British involvement in | :25:08. | :25:13. | |
it. If something had gone wrong Europe would have rightly turned | :25:13. | :25:17. | |
round and said, you've got obligations here. You can't just | :25:17. | :25:21. | |
wave your new theories around in the middle of a financial crisis. | :25:21. | :25:26. | |
Time for a look back at some of the stories that have caught our eyes | :25:26. | :25:36. | |
:25:36. | :25:36. | ||
over the last few days. U-turn? What U-turn? Justice | :25:36. | :25:42. | |
Secretary Ken Clarke denied he backed down despite dropping plans | :25:42. | :25:50. | |
forerly ier sentences for guilty pleas. The military warned that | :25:50. | :25:55. | |
action in Libya was putting the armed services under pressure. | :25:55. | :25:59. | |
One massive U-turn the Government did admit, if only for ten minutes, | :25:59. | :26:03. | |
was William Hague's decision to water down cuts to the World | :26:03. | :26:08. | |
Service. Victory for backbenchers as Mark | :26:08. | :26:13. | |
Pritchard won the day to ban wild circus animals. I'm not going to be | :26:14. | :26:18. | |
kowtowed by the whips or the Prime Minister of my country. But there | :26:18. | :26:22. | |
was no reprieve for the wild animals of Number Ten. David | :26:22. | :26:26. | |
Cameron has confirmed that Larry the Downing Street cat has made his | :26:26. | :26:32. | |
first kill. He's a good mouser. He's caught three mice, verifiable. | :26:32. | :26:36. | |
Careerly, the Larry is not for turning. | :26:37. | :26:42. | |
Larry doing the job he was employed to do. Mark Pritchard made a | :26:42. | :26:47. | |
passionate plea in the House of Commons. He wasn't going to be | :26:47. | :26:51. | |
pressurised or kowtowed. Downing Street doesn't recognise their | :26:51. | :26:56. | |
description of their conversation. He said Downing Street always talks | :26:56. | :27:01. | |
to MPs, which is good to know! They are always putting pressure on MPs | :27:02. | :27:08. | |
to do what they want? It does. The Pritchard thing is emblematic of | :27:09. | :27:13. | |
what happens now. There is an insurgent parliamentary party. | :27:13. | :27:20. | |
There are mutterings about the whips' office and the chief whip in | :27:20. | :27:26. | |
particular. There's a storm brewing and Pritchard is a manifestation of | :27:26. | :27:29. | |
that. But the storm brewing is coming from a very different | :27:29. | :27:34. | |
quarter on very different issues. It is interesting that it came out. | :27:34. | :27:38. | |
I think there is some curious game going on here which we won't see | :27:38. | :27:45. | |
for ages, where he's been sent out as a stunt really, a gegsary stunt, | :27:45. | :27:51. | |
so the true rebellion -- a diversionary stunt, so the true | :27:51. | :28:01. | |
rebel yont isn't seen. -- rebellion. They are trying to present a | :28:01. | :28:05. | |
narrative of what the relationship is between Cameron and his MPs, and | :28:05. | :28:11. | |
the backbenchers and how he reads them the riot Act but they stick | :28:11. | :28:16. | |
with their consciences. It is a beautiful Jilly Cooper mar tiv. | :28:16. | :28:24. | |
This is a conspiracy -- narrative. This is a conspiracy from the | :28:24. | :28:28. | |
Guardian. Is this a habit, the U- turn. In their hurry to get as much | :28:28. | :28:32. | |
policy done as possible, is the coalition Government sigh it is | :28:33. | :28:38. | |
wise, considered Government and Ministers that make decisions and | :28:38. | :28:45. | |
they can backtrack on them? defence of listening, if he didn't | :28:45. | :28:49. | |
he would be accused of being dogmatic. I don't see this yet as | :28:49. | :28:53. | |
being a huge political problem, although I do think there are real | :28:53. | :28:56. | |
arguments inside Downing Street about the pace of public service | :28:56. | :29:01. | |
reform. Nobody from Downing Street needs to prove that they can U-turn. | :29:01. | :29:06. | |
They U-turn like dancing bears! If I can stick with the circus analogy. | :29:06. | :29:11. | |
In their defence, not on anything really important. On the economy, | :29:11. | :29:20. | |
on cuts, on welfare reform, and on education. These are the three big | :29:20. | :29:24. | |
narrative stories. That's all for this week. It was a great debate in | :29:24. | :29:30. | |
the chamber yesterday about banning wild animals in circuss. We'll be | :29:30. | :29:33. |