06/07/2011 Daily Politics


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Good morning, this is the Daily Politics. Tabloid journalism in the


dock. More damaging allegations over phone hacking at News of the


World. Claims that its former editor, Andy Coulson, once David


Cameron's right-hand man, authorised payments to police


officers. Where will it all end? MPs debate the whole affair this


afternoon. We'll have the latest. Who wants to take on David Cameron


at PMQs? Last week it was The Speaker. This week, will Ed make


more of a mark? Join us for all the live action at midday. We celebrate


the achievements of the House of Commons Backbench Business


Committee. It is not as boring as it sounds. In fact, quite the


opposite. And what do the French do best? Strike of course. PY Gerbeau


tells us why we should not be Yes, all that and more coming up in


the next 90 minutes of TV wizardry at its best. And with us for the


duration, we have the Voldermort and Dumbledore of political thought.


I leave it to you to decide which is which. Yes, with us today is


Tony Blair's former Director of Communications, Alistair Campbell,


and the former Shadow Home Secretary, David Davis. Now first


let's turn our attention to a story that caught our eye on page six of


It may be a good day to very bad news. Because, this afternoon, the


House of Commons is to hold an emergency debate about the News of


the World phone hacking controversy - a story we covered in depth


yesterday. New allegations have emerged overnight and this morning.


Anita has more. The pressure is piling up on Rupert Murdoch's News


International. We already know of allegations that Milly Dowler's


phone was hacked and now it has been alleged the parents of the


murdered Soham girls, Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman, may have also


had their phones intercepted. It has also been revealed that at


least one family of one of the 7/7 bombing victims has been contacted


by the police and told their phone may have been hacked. Another


parent has said he was contacted. But that's not all, News


International have now confirmed that they have handed emails over


to an investigation which allegedly shows former News of the World


Editor, Andy Coulson, authorised payments to the police. This brings


the saga right to the door of David Cameron as Mr Coulson was


previously the Prime Minister's Director of Communications before


he resigned. The allegations also heap pressure on Rebekah Brooks,


now a senior executive at News International, who was Editor of


News of the World when the voicemails of Milly Dowler were


allegedly intercepted. But it is not just News International


newspapers who are making the headlines. Along with the Sun, the


Daily Mirror has been charged with contempt of court over stories


published following the murder of Jo Yeates. Little wonder perhaps


that a recent MORI poll on public trust found that only 19% of people


They trust presenters a bit more. We're joined now by the former


Chairman of the Conservative Party, Norman Fowler, who has been calling


for an urgent independent inquiry into how the media operates. You'd


do not, at the moment, look as if you're going to get your way, am I


right? I think you are probably wrong. I have been doing this for


six months. Bit by bit the Government has been edging towards


it. Yesterday, a minister said in the House of Lords they were not


actually going to rule it out. I think we will get it. I do not


understand why the Government does not do it. They have said they have


to wait for the police inquiry. Are they right to do that? Yes. You can


announce it now that after the police inquiries are ended and the


court cases have come to an end, then you can do that. It should go


much wider than News of the World and phone hacking. We have


discussed in the use of private investigations, the links between


police and private investigators have - it is criminality at


virtually every level of newspapers. Norman has been pushing on this for


some time. The press has been in denial. If David Cameron has any


sense, he will announce a wide- ranging inquiry to take place as


soon as it is practical. Who could do it? It is difficult to think of


anyone above you, or below. Personally I think it has almost


got to a point where you need a judicial inquiry. You need the


ability of the Chairman of the inquiry to subpoena people, bring


them in and put them under oath. the media, we think judges are


hostile to the press. You sometimes think that. If it has got to carry


public support, then I think if you put a judge in charge of it, and


other people who are expert in this area, then I think you get the best


possible service. It has to have investigative capabilities. It will


not happen soon. We did announce an inquiry. Here you have at least one


criminal event, if it is true, paying policeman is a criminal


offence. Most of this hacking is a criminal offence. The three of you


want an inquiry. How much of a mistake was it for David Cameron to


hire and Nicholson as spin-doctor in opposition and then make him


head of communications? -- Andy Coulson. He knew he had been


involved and it appeared he did the honourable thing and step down.


knew there was a hacking investigation. I do not think he


could walk away at that point. he established eyeball to or --


eyeball to eyeball that nothing would emerged that was potentially


embarrassing, I can never be clear that that happened. We do know that


step-by-step it has become more serious. It was not on the scale it


is now. It has gone from the Westminster wine bars to every pub


in the learned. This week it has been avalanche. We have some


breaking news with Nick Robinson. He has been working hard this


morning. Welcome to the programme earlier than usual on a Wednesday.


I understand that News International executives have


uncovered what they believed to be evidence of who in the organisation


sanctioned and commissioned the hacking off the phone off Milly


Dowler. You remember that Rebekah Brooks, the chief executive officer


of News International, said when this revelation came out that she


was shocked and appalled, I am told the evidence does not point to her.


They did do a documentary will, and evidence trawl, including e-mail


from within the organisation and they believe they have pieced


together the jigsaw of who Glenn Mulcaire, the private investigator


who apologised yesterday, who exactly he was dealing with and on


what basis. Instant mate we want to know who that is was Doug News


International are not going to save. I cannot say because I do not know.


I am not hinting it is Andy Coulson because I have no evidence to


suggest it was him. He has always denied some wrongdoing. News


International believe they know pretty clearly who was involved.


You would assume they would have to discipline someone if they were


still on the staff or if they do not discipline someone, they are


suggesting it is someone who already left the building. It is


clear that deputy heads must roll. When deputy head's role, they have


a habit of telling you what the boss told you. It is not


necessarily a get out of jail card for Rebekah Wade because it


happened on her watch and it may have been one of her senior


executives. What is interesting about that is the phrase, happened


on her watch. And Nicholson resigned as editor of News of the


World insisting that he did not know anything about phone hacking.


-- Andy Coulson. He had to go because it happened on his watch.


Rebekah Brooks does not regard that as a precedent that, in that case,


someone had gone to prison - the royal reporter of the News of the


World. She is not planning to resign simply because it happened


on her watch. She said it was inconceivable she knew about it at


the time. There is still a determination she will continue to


lead to this company. The owners of this company - its shareholders -


will have to contemplate whether she credibly can continue to lead


both the investigation and the company when it is coming in for


such huge criticism. All eyes will be on what David Cameron has to say


at Prime Minister's questions in a few minutes' time about the scandal


as a whole and about Andy Coulson. Just briefly on that, there is


remarkable revelation that came out last night, I forget when but News


International itself has handed over at e-mails to the police


purporting to show that Andy Coulson was making substantial


payments to the police itself. What do we know about that? We know that


is what happened. News International handed over those e-


mails. Why do we know it? Vanity Fair approached News International


and they had the story saying that News International were withholding


the e-mails. They said they were so determined to clear their name on


at least the issue of co-operating with the police, they decided to


confirm that many weeks ago they did indeed hand over e-mails that


allegedly showed there were a series of payments to the police


sanctioned by Andy Coulson when he was editor of News of the World. It


makes it a more political story than it was before. I do not know


what the Prime Minister will say. I am clear there is a mood change


among those people around David Cameron. They realise it will no


longer do to simply say it is a police matter, wait for the


evidence to be uncovered. Thank you very much. If Vanity Fair can get


stories, there will be a lot coming up. If the distinction is that


somebody went to prison, I will be astonished when it is concluded,


that a lot of people... If it is right to send someone to prison for


hacking into a royal... Most people think that it is bad. We had all


these stories from News International. They have had a


thorough investigation. They have looked at the e-mails. Every time


they are back on the defensive, they find new e-mails. I believe


what has happened is because we have Prime Minister's Questions and


there is the MPs debate, they want big brokers to switch to David


Cameron and Andy Coulson. -- the focus. Can Rebekah Brooks survive?


I think it will be very difficult. If Rupert Murdoch wants to touch


things out, he well. It has now reached a position where, if I had


been in the back of a cab with all the people that had been involved,


they're all talking about it. It has reached eight tipping point.


is embarrassing for David Cameron because of his relation with Andy


Coulson. You supped with these people as well? At times. So were


you, so were the BBC. Throughout the time of Tony Blair in Downing


Street, I was there once. Rebekah Wade was there more than once.


was Rupert Murdoch. You were very close. You are both just as bad.


That makes the point. The worst thing that can happen is it becomes


a party political debate. As you rightly say, both parties have been


guilty of getting too near to the Rupert Murdoch press in all kinds


of ways. What one needs to do is look at the issue itself which is


the abuse of power. I do agree with that. Latterly towards the end of


the Tony Blair pecked -- Premiership, I was adding that the


press had become a real problem. Tony should be thinking about doing


something. He always said the public cared more about health and


education and jobs and it was not the parity. David Cameron now has


to show some leadership on this. The public has accepted the press


they get is not the press they deserve. The mood has changed. Nick


is right about that. Up until a short time ago, less than 24 hours


ago, people were still talking in terms of this is simply a media...


David Cameron told me he was not going to do to Rupert Murdoch what


Tony Blair and Alastair Campbell had done. Within six months he is


doing exactly that. It seems the political leaders of our country


feel they cannot run this country There is little doubt that the


pressure on any Prime Minister is to talk to these people more than


they should. Can I make one other point? Of course the pressure is


building but the risk in politics is when the pressure gets massively


on to one side and we have a free press and must be very careful that


the swing the other way does not become one of over-regulation.


is fine, as long as that inquiry includes, and I agree in principle,


that that inquiry includes the Press Complaints Commission and


what those powers and functions are. This has been going on for years.


As I said to the leader of the Press Complaints Commission


yesterday, the report said if Sega Red Ed - aka self-regulation did


not work, we must move to statutory. In principle I still support self-


regulation but yesterday, you're interview showed why the Press


Complaints Commission has become such a joke. It is a body of the


press and for the press. Any inquiry has to have investigative


powers but policy, including what system of regulation replaces this.


Dare I say said, these issues that have come up, they're far too big


for any self-regulating organisation, this is about police


not doing their job, accepting criminal action. There has always


been a grey area in the press were we accept there is public interest


for buying stolen material. And people have not objected to this


because of the public interest but what has happened is police have


stepped back completely and except that the police -- press can do


what they want. This is bigger than any self-regulatory operation.


Would anyone want the sun or the News of the World having an


endorsement for the next election? Let me just say something. We did


not win the election in 1987 because of the Sun. Or 1992? Even


on that, we did not lose the election in 1982. I have myself


said the Sun likes to be on the winning side. But that begs the


question, why were you so close? In your darkest hour, the days after


the death of David Kelly, who said to you, you have done nothing wrong,


just hang in and don't give them the satisfaction? Rebekah Wade.


was a press and communications person and it would be ordered by


was not speaking to journalists. That is a personal message. I know.


Painting to Downing Street endlessly... Lots of people... I am


not saying they do not matter, I say that their influence and


standing is overstated, not least by themselves. The son marketed


themselves as the endorsement for the election. Of course it


matters... Weather David Cameron not win a majority of with


virtually all the press behind him? He if you have one organisation


that controls almost 40% of the press, it is inevitable that that


matters for political leaders, we must be realistic. We have not got


time for the rights and wrongs. At the very least, should the


Government delay the Murdoch bid for BSkyB? Yes. Yes. And on that


uncharacteristic and shock unanimity, we must move on. You are


being held hostage. Norman Fowler, the release you! Fascinating


discussion. We will go to another. I don't want any doubt out there.


The very well-known statutory instruments committee. It is a body


we like to keep close tabs on every now and then. Stop that! Yesterday


the members backed a proposal to make extra loans worth around �9


billion available to the International Monetary Fund to fund


the bailout of Greece. However, Labour members voted no and a group


of Conservative non-members gate- crashed the meeting to vent their


fury at the plans. Because of the vote in favour, the proposal should


go to what's known as a silent vote in the house, but the rebels


haven't given up hope and one of the chief troublemakers, the


Conservative MP, Douglas Carswell, joins us now. Before we learn about


the noise you'll make, tell us what happened yesterday. These


committees are normally very staid affairs and the powers that be


expect to get business through. On lot of none committee members who


felt strongly about this, and you can buy long-term care for older


folk with that money and it is wrong to increase the subscription


in this way. We turned up to say what we thought our constituents


would like us to say. I'm very pleased that on the strength of the


argument, Labour voted against these proposals and there will be a


ballot of the whole house. Short of making a racket about this, you


will not be able to change anything? I am not so sure. There


is a fundamental problem, the IMF seems to preside over the first be


like in history that has involved ladling more water into the boat.


Traditionally, the IMF has followed the principle of what you might


call devaluation of the currency, defaulting on debt and downsizing


the public sector. Yet, in the Eurozone, it does the opposite and


by coughing up �9.2 billion, we allow this problem to be made worse.


That is an issue of real concern. Thank you very much. Let's turn to


the panel. Is there any justification for giving this money


to the IMF when they needed so badly at home? I have not follow


the argument they had yesterday but I can see circumstances when it


would be, yes. Even though we have the obligation, you would say...?


Should we? I can see circumstances were we could. Just because we have


massive problems domestically, it does not mean you don't have


international obligations. I did not follow the debate yesterday but


I can see circumstances were that could be the case. Labour MPs say


no, we hate this. They were at this and they are across the argument.


You asked me the question if I could see the circumstances and I


say yes, I can. I am trying to find out whether, even though we have


the obligation, if we should be able to back out gracefully? Is it


morally wrong to give this money away? The Treasury minister today


said we have to pay this money or we will lose a receipt at the table.


It must be the most expensive armchair in history. The truth is,


the IMF should not do this, they should leave it to the ECB. The


real point is that bailing out something, bailing out a country


and actually softening the blow for the country, the country must take


measures itself to bring its own economy under control. There are


strings attached and you have listened to this. Yes... My point


is we cannot separate the globalised economy and domestic and


international. Very briefly, do we keep that seat at the table at any


cost? Of course, we do not keep the seat at any cost but we must take


the arguments on its merits. I have not followed this argument, I say


that we do have as a big international player, we must


recognise this. Thank you but very much for being with us. Reports are


coming to us that this might be the last we see of Speaker Bercow for a


while. Stop crying at the back! After the robust exchanges between


him and the Prime Minister last week, an aide to David Cameron has


suggested John Bercow could now be off to Afghanistan to take part in


a job swap with the speaker of the Afghan parliament. No doubt Channel


4 will have a reality show on this! Lucky old him. Apparently, Mr


Bercow says he'll only go if he can take a Daily Politics mug with him.


But he hasn't got one, so he'll have to enter this week's Guess the


Year competition. Yes, indeed. Hope you're watching carefully, Mr


Speaker. We are on iPlayer! Can you There is so much harassment, we


None of the members of the commission are Marxist and the


arguments on the report are well- A Labour council hiring taxis to


scuttle around the city and hand It is ideal for shopping, any


To be in with a chance of winning a Daily Politics mug, send your


answer to our special quiz email address. That's [email protected]


You can see the full terms and conditions for Guess the Year on


our website, bbc.co.uk/dailypolitics. Are used


during his tea for him? Cross- party! -- are used during his tea?


Anyway, enough of this trivia! It's coming up to midday. Just take a


look at Big Ben. That can mean only one thing: Yes, Prime Minister's


Questions is on its way. And that's not all. James Landale is with us,


just back from accompanying the Prime Minister to Afghanistan.


Welcome back. Congratulations. Thank you. You told us that sending


the Speaker to Afghanistan isn't a joke? It is true, he will go out


there. We will get the Afghans bickered and MPs and Peers will be


sent out there, it's to beef up the Afghan parliamentary institutions.


That is the theory. That will really work. Hacking? Very hard for


the two front benches to ignore this. Both would rather. What


tactic does Mr Miliband play to get at Mr Cameron? It's a big Judgement


Call, for Ed Miliband, something which he presents himself as a


tribune of the people for? Putting pressure on the political Whitehall


Westminster elite? Or does he focus more on David Cameron's judgment in


Harry Andy Coulson. That is the choice he has. David Cameron, I


have been to a briefing at the Prime Minister's spokesman office


and we have no view on whether there should be an inquiry, just


the Government has the view that MPs should do get this. That line


will not hold. Does David Cameron be bold and does he say something


has to change? And how far does he go? Does he keep this to the narrow


focus on what happened but does he said we need a wider look at the


whole issue of media regulation? What angle would you advise and to


tie? The first. I would not go down the road of Andy Coulson and


Stephen Cameron, this is a bigger subject and he must stay focused on


the public revulsion and the public belief that there has to be changed


in the media system. If David Cameron is sensible, he will start


the process by which there will be an inquiry leading to a new system


of regulation. Afghanistan has been overshadowed by this, right or


wrong, but there will be a statement? We were on a flight


yesterday morning and the only arrived in the UK at 10pm last


night so do it Cameron has had a lot of catching up to do. There has


been a lot of work overnight and in terms of Ghana Stan, we will get a


reduction in troop numbers, around 500. The point is, David Cameron


has given in to the generals and he will delay this until the back end


of next year. There is a good few fighting seasons with large troop


numbers static. The message from the Government to the rest of the


NATO allies is, do what we do, not the Americans. But we must follow


the Americans? We are entirely dependent on their support system?


David Cameron's a collisions that by saying all combat troops will be


out by the end of 2014 gives them some slack and within that period,


to delay that process and he feels that he can do this by making


another statement. He must follow the aggregate timetable and he must


make sure the troops are as safe as possible. They will say, cut strips


and cost lives. Those who remain will be more vulnerable? Exactly.


I'm quite sure that will be the argument. You sense any U-turn?


is under huge public pressure. Whenever David Cameron talks about


this he talks about the context of... Yesterday, he said these are


the questions the public are asking. This is the reassurance I can give.


That is his context. Let's go I am sure the whole House will wish


to join me in paying tribute to Scott McLaren of The Royal Regiment


of Scotland. This week I witnessed at first hand the sacrifice of our


soldiers. I pay tribute to the bravery and dedication of this


particular soldier who was lost in such tragic circumstances. Our


thoughts will be with his family and friends. We pay tribute to him


and all like him his serve our country so magnificently in


Afghanistan and elsewhere. This morning I had meetings with


ministerial colleagues and others. I shall have further such meetings


later today. I agree with the sentiments the Prime Minister has


made. It is a dreaded going thinking about the knock on the


door and he is lost in action. Our sympathies go with his father and


family at that particular time. Is it right, Mr Speaker, that


yesterday we gave �10 billion to be bailed out of the bank's in Greece?


We gave �7 billion to the bail out in Ireland. We gave 100 billion -


of this is the British tax pair - 100 billion a year for the quality


of the banks in this country, for insurance purposes and other


purposes. Why does the Prime Minister not get on his bike and go


down to his friends in the City and sack the few spivs and speculators?


First of all, it is this government that has put a bank levy on the


banks so they are paying more in every year than they paid in the


bank bonus tax under the last government. In terms of Greece, I


have kept us out of the European bale out of Greece. In Ireland,


that economy is so close and integrated, it is right we give


them support. That is the right approach. This government is tough


in making sure the banks pay their fair share. Severe drought,


conflict and food prices have combined viciously in the Horn of


Africa creating desperate hunger and threatening the lives of


millions. What is the Government doing to help? As ever, we are


being extremely effective in trying to help with the crisis where 10


million people are at threat of starvation. We are right to


maintain and increase our spending in this area - difficult as the


arguments sometimes are. In spite of the difficulties, it is nothing


like these people facing starvation and death unless we help them.


I join the Prime Minister in paying tribute to Highlander Scott


McCarron of the Highlanders forced Battalion The Royal Regiment of


Scotland. He was young man, serving our country who died in the most


horrific circumstances. The thoughts of the whole House are


with his family and friends. The whole country has been appalled


about the allegations of phone hacking - the 7/7 victims, the


parents of Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman, and of course Milly Dowler.


That anyone could listen to the messages and delete them, giving


false hope to those parents, is immoral and a disgrace. Given the


gravity of what has occurred, will the Prime Minister's support the


calls for a ball, independent, public inquiry into the practices


of British newspapers? Let me be very clear, yes, we do need to have


an inquiry, possibly inquiries into what has happened. We're no longer


talking about politicians and celebrities. We are talking about


murder victims, potentially terrorist victims, it is absolutely


disgusting. Everyone in this House and the country will be revolted at


what they have heard and seen on the television. May I make a couple


of points? People need to know there is a major police


investigation under way. It is one of the biggest police


investigations currently under way in our country. It does not involve


the police officers who were involved in the original


investigation. That clearly did not get to the trees. It is important


we had inquiries that are public and independent and have public


confidence. It seems there are two vital issues we need to look into.


The first is the original police inquiry and why did not get to the


bottom of what happened and the second is about the behaviour of


individual people and individual media organisations. A wider look


into media practices and ethics in this country. As he says, we cannot


start all that sort of inquiry immediately because you must not


jeopardise the police investigation. It may be possible to start some of


that work earlier. I'm very happy to discuss this with him, with


other party leaders to make sure we get this right and that lessons are


learnt from what has become a disgraceful episode. Let me say to


the Prime Minister I am encouraged that he does recognise now the need


for a full public inquiry into what happened. He is right to say this


the police investigation has taken its course. As he said in his


answer, that may take some years. It is possible for the Prime


Minister to start his process now. He should immediately appoint a


senior figure, potentially a judge, to lead this inquiry. Make clear it


will have the power to call witnesses under oath and establish


clear terms of reference, covering a number of key issues. The culture


and practices of the industry, the nature of regulation which is


absolutely crucial, and also the relationship between the police and


the media. I wonder whether he can just respond on those points.


want to respond positively. Of the two issues I mentioned, the conduct


of the earlier police inquiry and the broader lessons about ethics in


the media, I do not think it is possible to start an investigation


into the format until the police investigation is continued. There


would be a danger of jeopardising the current police inquiry. I do


think responding positively to what he says it may be possible to make


a start on other elements. I do not want us to rush this decision. I


want us to get it right, having discussed it with other party


leaders, the Attorney-General and the Cabinet Secretary. All too


often these inquiries are set up to early without thinking through what


needs to be done. I think the Prime estate is applied -- implying that


it can start now and it is very important that we do so. A beer to


the day, he did appoint an inquiry about the treatment of detainees.


Let me go on to ask him about what happens in the meantime pending


this public inquiry. We have consistently said the BSkyB bid


should be referred to the Competition Commission and not


dealt with in the way the Culture Secretary has done. The Prime


Minister must realise the public will react with disbelief if, next


week, the decision is taken to go ahead with this deal at the time


when news International is subject to a major criminal investigation


and we do not yet know who charges will be laid against. Does the


Prime Minister agree the BSkyB bid should now be referred to the


Competition Commission to provide a breathing space that is required?


Let me answer the point about Gibson. It is a good and fair point.


We established the Gibson Inquiry but it has not made much process --


progress until criminal proceedings had been brought to an end. You do


not want to jeopardise a police operation which you would do so if


you start questioning witnesses through a public inquiry process at


the same time they are being questioned through a police process.


I want us to get on with this issue. The faster we can set up other


elements of the inquiry, the happier I will be. About BSkyB,


what we have done is followed the correct legal processes. That is


what the Government has to do. The Secretary of State is in a quiet


side judicial rale - he has to follow that. The leader of the


Labour Party said that the issue of competition and plurality is


separate from the very important issue we are discussing today.


These processes must be followed properly, including bike of calm.


They have the duty to make a recommendation. -- including by


Ofcom. Mr Speaker, I am afraid that answer was out of touch. The public


will not accept the idea that, with this scandal engulfing the News of


the World and News International, that the Government should, in the


coming days be making a decision outside of the normal processes for


them to take control of one of the biggest media organisations in the


country. I know this is difficult for him but I strongly urge him to


think again and send this decision to the proper authority, which is


the Competition Commission. This will provide breathing space for


legitimacy and the proper decisions to be made. I would say to him that


the decision making has been through the proper processes. It is


right the Government acts are legally in every way. That is what


it has done. One is about morality and ethics and a police


investigator that needs to be carried out in the proper way. They


have total independence. The other is about plurality and competition


which has to act under the law. Incredible as he has done a U-turn


in order to look good in the House of Commons. Mr Speaker, this is not


the time for technicalities or low We have said consistently,


throughout this process, that this bid should be referred to the


Competition Commission. This is the right way forward. The Prime


Minister should speak for the country on this issue. This is what


people want him to do. I hope he will think again because it is in


the interests of the media industry and the British public that this is


properly referred to the Competition Commission in the way


that all other bids are dealt with. What we also know, as well as


needing a public inquiry and the BSkyB bid referred to the


Competition Commission, these were not the actions of a rogue


individual or a road reporter but part of a wider, systematic pattern


of the abuses. The public sees no one wanting to take responsibility


for what happened. No one is denying the phone off Milly Dowler


was hat. No one is denying it happened on the watch of the editor


of the newspaper at the time. Will the Prime Minister join me if he


believes the people taking responsibility for insane she


should take responsibility and consider her position? -- in saying.


Let me deal with the technicalities. When you are dealing with the law,


you have to look at the technicalities because there is


something called up to process that you have to follow. That is


necessary for any government. -- called due process. Everyone needs


to ask searching questions at News International. Everyone is subject


to one of the largest police investigations under way in this


country. We should let the police do their work was done they should


follow the evidence, Brett it needs was a big people are guilty of


wrongdoing, they should have no hesitation in making sure they are


I am clear, she should take responsibility and stand down. And


Mr Speaker, these events show a systematic set of abuses which


demonstrate the abuse of power without responsibility in the


country and is in the interests of democracy and the public that these


are sorted out. With the biggest press scandal in modern times


getting worse by the day, I'm afraid he has not shown the


leadership necessary today. He has not shown in leadership necessary


on BSkyB, or on a News International. And is it not the


case that if the public is to have confidence in him, he must accept


that he made a catastrophic error of judgment by bringing Andy


Coulson... Into the heart of his Downing Street machine? What


people... Order! Order! The Prime Minister should not have to shout


to be heard or should the leader of the opposition. It is thoroughly


disorderly. The Prime Minister will be heard. I take full


responsibility for everyone I employed and everyone I. And I take


responsibility for everything my Government does. What this


Government is doing is making sure that the public, and I felt


appalled by what has happened, murder victims, terrorist victims


who have had their phones tapped, that is disgraceful and there must


be a full police investigation of all the powers they need. That is


why it is important we have as inquiries to get to the bottom of


what went wrong and the lessons that need learning. That is why we


need to enquire as to how we improve the ethics and morals of


the press in this country and make sure they improve for the future.


That is what needs to be done and what this Government is doing and


we don't have to take lectures from him about it. Nicky Morgan. Thank


you. For the year 9 pupils at a high-school and my constituency,


they have joined hundreds of other pupils to the send my sister to


school campaign and will the Prime Minister and support to the scores


and I should not remind people that good education here or overseas


transforms children's lives and their life chances. I am delighted


to welcome the campaign that she mentions and her personal support.


The fact is that across the world there are 39 million curls out of


school and even if they are in school, the gender gaps we see are


appalling and in the UK, with the aid budget, we are securing


schooling for 11 million children by 2015, that is more in the UK but


we can do this at 2.5% of the cost. This is a good investment for


British taxpayers to make sure we reduce inequality in the world.


the Prime Minister explain whether he thinks the cost of his NHS


reforms, set to rise even further with the revelation that a new


super quango in the NHS will be created, might be partly


responsible for the funding squeeze affecting health services in


Harrow? It puts at risk services at the popular Alexandria Avenue


clinic in my constituency. What we have seen since this Government has


taken office is more than 2000 doctors and 4000 fewer managers.


And we're cutting bureaucracy by one-third. They don't like to hear


it, but if we follow their plans and cut in a chest and -- spending,


we would see the numbers of doctors and nurses coming down and just


this morning we have seen the numbers of diagnostic tests going


up. Because of the investment going in under this Government. The Prime


Minister will be aware of the news this morning that Portugal's debt


has been downgraded. Does he agree that it is a warning to every


member of this house that you cannot put off difficult decisions


and the only plan B is bankruptcy? My friend is right, Plan B stands


for bankruptcy. We can see what happens when governments do not get


a grip of their debt and deficit. That is what this Government does


and the party opposite have learnt nothing. Does the Prime Minister


agree with me that the maximum sentence for the offence of


dangerous driving does not properly reflect the potential harm caused


to victims? Sometimes these victims are left paralysed and brain damage.


Will the Prime Minister's support me and my front bench in increasing


the maximum sentence took seven years? I know that the Honourable


Gentleman speaks with personal knowledge about this, not just


because of his constituency case that he wrote to me about but


because of his work as a barrister before coming to this place. I


brought to me, someone was really damaged permanently for life and


the next one sentence is two years. We are looking at this issue and we


hope to make progress. To even more us. What the Prime Minister agree


that the event should be allowed from the opposition of �10 billion


isn't just the fear not in the IMF and in the 1970s, the IMF bailed


out their government? I agree with what my friend said and it was


remarkable yesterday that the Labour Party put themselves in a


position of opposing our involvement in the IMF. Britain is


a serious global economy and we should take responsibility for


serious global issues, including through the IMF. David Simpson.


Does the Prime Minister agree that details of all the weapons and


explosives be commissioned in Northern Ireland should be made


public, as promised? And will he agree to have negotiations with the


Irish government to move forward to the Americans to see that it


happens? The Independent Commission did not provide us with an


inventory, they were an independent body and this was a decision for


them to make, difficult as that is. They stated that we would not want


to inadvertently discourage further decommissioning with groups that


are actively engaged. This is difficult and we're having to deal


in Northern Ireland with difficult things in order to bring conflict


to an end and keep conflict to an end and this is what the


commissioner's report did. On the issue of delaying inquiries, the


public have little confidence in the Metropolitan Police, were


investigations concerning News International are concerned. Colour


remind him of a question I asked in April, will he have a full judicial


inquiry that looks particularly at the link between News International


and the Metropolitan Police? Clearly this is a very important


issue and my friend is disgusted with the Commissioner of the


Metropolitan Police. -- has discussed it. Let me try to


reassure the house and the on and a gentleman about this because even


before you get to the point about independent and public inquiries,


what the public needs to know is that the police will go about their


job properly in terms of this investigation and they do need to


know that this is an investigation completely separate from the


previous investigation and as it stands today, it is one of the


largest police investigations going on anywhere in the country. Teresa


Pearce. Thank you. The victims of knife crime in London have


increased by 8% over the last three months. On the streets of London


have children carrying knives and other children afraid of the


journey to and from school. Last Friday, on a busy shopping parade,


a 16 year-old constituent of mine was stabbed to death. Two children


have been arrested in connection with this and what with the Prime


Minister do to ensure that the mayor of London gets a grip on this


problem and that was one of the election promises? The case that


she raises is a tragic one and there are still too many victims of


knife crime, particularly among young people, in our cities. What


we're doing is creating a new offence with a mandatory sentence


to send a clear message to those who carry knives. The offence would


apply to those with the knife who threaten and endanger others and a


public place. It will send a clear message to those who possess nice,


if you threaten anyone, you go to jail. What the Prime Minister agree


that those who pay back early their student loans are doing the right


thing and should be encouraged? If so, how is it consistent with the


government policy which is apparently want to discourage


people from paying back early and indeed penalising them for early


repayment? I would urge my friend to look carefully at the details of


what we propose. We want a progressive system were people who


earn more pay back more and that is why we have the system were nobody


pays anything until they earn �21,000 and you don't pay back in


full until �35,000. We are proposing that people who pay back


�3,000 a year, as they earn money, should not be discouraged because


that is the right thing to do. opposition the Prime Minister was


clear that... Last week, he said I fell back on the same explanation


is that he refused to accept when they were given to him by the


previous Prime Minister. What has changed? We have banned the Taliban,


we have taken action, and as my friend, the Lord Chancellor, will


history testify, it is endlessly frustrating that we are subject to


so many legal requirements but I'm afraid we have to be a government


under the law. Order! Mr Robert Hall Farm... Given that the


Olympics and the Diamond Jubilee are next to, is the Prime Minister


aware that emigration Special Branch officers are concerned that


the common area of travel channel allows illegal migrants, Islamists


and terrorists, into the country without passports being checked.


Will he take steps to close this loophole immediately? By friend


makes an important point but I would say that passport free travel


between the UK and Crown dependencies and the Republic of


Ireland has been in place for many years and it offers economic and


social benefits. I except that these routes can be open to abuse


and we're determined to resolve this, the UK Border Agency is


working closely with Ireland and others to make sure this happens


what we want to try to do this without disadvantaging people who


can take advantage of this common travel area up to now.


committee's secretary and the DWP secretary has said that British


employers should employ British workers. Will the Prime Minister


start with the DWP offshore or company in offering -- outsourcing


jobs to Bangalore? I understand the case she makes... Order! I want to


hear the answer! What we need to do is make sure that our welfare


reforms are encouraging those people who sit on welfare and could


work and make them go out to work. Under the party opposite, yes,


economic growth but 5 million working-age people living on


benefits. That isn't good enough and we will change that. What the


Prime Minister agree that centres in rural areas provide a valuable


service to their local communities and hundreds of my constituents


send this message to Derbyshire NHS as they threaten the closure of the


centre? I agree of my friend and we want to see maternity networks so


that mothers can make a choice about where they can give birth.


Whether that is in a community setting, midwife lead or in a


district general hospital, where they have all the paraphernalia of


consultants, and it should be a choice made by them. Is the Prime


Minister aware that when yesterday Bombardier had to announce


redundancies, including skilled engineers and signers, the company


made public for the first time that they had offered to establish a new


Academy in this country for the design and manufacture of cars for


the next generation of high-speed trains in this country and across


the world. More jobs and jobs with even higher skills. He won't have


had time to familiarise himself with the details but will he


undertake to look into this with care to give substance to the


commitment to give in my constituency to British


manufacturing? I will look very carefully at what the Honourable


Lady has said about this but let me just say this... I Want to See More


British jobs in manufacturing and as we are seeing across the country


but in case of Bombardier, the procurement process was designed


and emaciated by the Government of which she was apart. We are bound


by the criteria they set out and therefore we must continue with the


decision that has been made according to that. Separately, we


are setting out to ask the question, what more can we do within the


current rules to make sure that the boost manufacturing in the country?


And not have situations like this in the future. 12 days ago a young


constituent of mine was the victim of a vicious knife attack. This


last weekend, another 16 year-old man was also the victim of a knife


attack. Will my Right Honourable friend join with me in condemning


this upsurge in gang related violence and confirm that those


that carry knives will be facing a custodial sentence if apprehended?


As I have said, it is important to send a clear message about this and


we're doing that with the new offence that carries a mandatory


sentence and that is a single to anyone who contemplate carrying a


knife. We should be frank. Surely looking at this from a criminal


justice situation isn't the answer. We have to ask ourselves why so


many young people joined gangs and why aren't families and communities


doing more to keep them close and prevent the carrying of knives and


that is something that runs across government. It isn't the case of


the Government follows the normal process in relation to the takeover


of BSkyB. Why does he believe the assurances that News Corporation


executives give are any more credible than the ones they give


over phone hacking? We have followed the correct processes and


indeed, if you do not know the correct process, you will be


judicially reviewed and all the decisions you would like to make


for a political point of view it will be struck down in the courts.


Order! If the house can overcome its collective mirth, we will hear


Mr Ian Miss Wales. I visited a school in my constituency which is


the 17th most deprived primary- school in the country. Will the


Prime Minister join me in congratulating the school and the


community in their work to convert an area of demolished houses into a


playing field and will he ensure the Government improves its pupil


premium policy to support this excellent work? I believe the


people premium which will pump billions into the most deprived


children in deprived parts of the country will make a huge difference


That was the penultimate Prime Minister's Questions. That is the


second last! Yes! Phone hacking dominated the exchanges. We have


agreement that there should be an inquiry but exactly when and with


the terms of reference, obviously there are no concrete piece of news


but there is disagreement on whether Mr Murdoch's attempt to buy


60% of BSkyB that he does not own should be referred to the


Competition Commission for at least delayed. Why that was going on in


Parliament, the outside world is We learned in the last half hour


that Halifax, Virgin Holidays, Lloyds Bank and Vauxhall Motors had


also withdrawn. There is a sense of an avalanche. There is talk of


Renault, cabarets, at NatWest, Coca-Cola, Body Shop pulls up


various others may not be advertising. That think can hurt.


We remember what happened to The Sun paper macro. Boycotts can hit


you. Rupert Murdoch likes big, thick bottom lines. One of the new


things we have been doing is monitoring the tweets that come in.


In the Westminster village, those people who make their business


punting on these issues, they thought that Ed Miliband scored a


clear win. Wiped the floor with David Cameron. These up all people


who work in the business. What about you? This one from Peter in


Oxfordshire. David Cameron failed to address the public perception of


the close link between News International and the Conservative


Party. It seems Ed Miliband judges people before they are found guilty,


says Maureen Ryan. Chris from Sheffield says what a disgusting


attitude by members of the opposition towards the Prime


Minister. He was being heckled constantly by Labour backbenchers.


Another one, what a waste! What we care about is trying to make a


static way to go even further week after week. Alastair Campbell,


adviser to David Cameron and the Prime Minister, and they say that


because he wrote a new block. I have heard to say before that Mr


Cameron would stand up and then as he would agree to the principle of


a broad-based inquiry and that is what he did. I am glad he did it.


Ed Miliband Havel did extremely well. David Cameron did the right


thing. -- Ed Miliband handled it extremely well. I think now of this


inquiry has to be wide ranging. It cannot just be about the News of


the World. It is about links with police and private investigators.


It has to lead to a settlement between politics and the media. A


lot of politicians will start to think that maybe Selfridge it --


self regulation is best. The Prime Minister a's line is that we have


to follow to process. The Culture Secretary does not meet without


half a dozen lawyers in the same room so he is being seen to act to


the letter of the law. Public opinion and the public mood is


another thing. Can apposition be sustained? I thought the first part


was Parliament at its best was that it was the right tone was a bit


came a par with the BSkyB quote. -- -- beat it where it came apart was


with the BSkyB quote. What is very likely to happen is that somebody


will resurrect all bring up the fit and proper test. There is a


requirement, said Labour media takeovers, that the person taking


over has to meet a fit and proper test. The default option is Ofcom.


That is the regulatory body for the media. It looks rather weak. I


think Mr Cameron will go back to No. 10 and say, find me a way through


all of this. Why can it not be referred to the Competition


Commission? New information, I have changed my mind. It is more fit and


proper. This whole picture has changed completely. We do not know,


we will not know for months, quite how far up the Murdoch organisation


the blame for these problems goes. That is the key issue. If it goes


right to senior level... You do not do �750,000 settlements with Gordon


Taylor without it going very high up. It will open the doors to much


more. If you came back of a plane last night and were presented with


a problem like this, you can announce two inquiries - one on the


police and one on the issue of wider media regulation. He had no


alternative about that. So many people will say, if we touch the


BSkyB issue, we have to get it right. We cannot get it wrong. The


moment something goes wrong with it, the consequences could be huge.


supplied to Ben Bradshaw was rather tetchy. We will have to go and find


out what is the wiggle room the Government have. The question by


Ben Bradshaw was quite interesting. He knows a bit about the background


to this. I think David is right. I think David Cameron looked very


uncomfortable. The public, whether he likes it or not, they are


linking the two issues. It is big enough to have a public inquiry


into the media but to have a public inquiry into the police and the


media would be unprecedented and potentially devastating for a lot


of people. Labour members of the Metropolitan Police have authority


have called upon Paul Stephenson to refer the bourse voluntary -- be


forced voluntary to the Independent Police Complaints Commission.


are dragging people out of bed at midnight and all the rest of it.


Compare the lack of zeal on this! You, I understand, are currently


Labour's largest individual donor. Why it is Ed Miliband not


attracting more financial support? We are the third most interesting


party at the moment. In Scotland we are the 4th most interesting party


or they may be the Lib Dems do not count. It you have got to be head


of the Tories and the Lib Dems. We're the third most interesting


party. The Tories are the Government. Business has moved back


a fair amount and Ed is finding it hard to attract that sort of


support. That is inevitable at this stage of the parliament. David will


know this from when he was trying to raise money through his campaign,


money does tend to go a bit towards where they think the winners Mike


bees. It is about -- might be. It will have done him and the PLP a


lot of beard. I was surprised my donation was the largest last month.


Next month it will be the guy who paid for the dedication of my book


was up is that this book here? said, during the leadership


campaign, I think Ed Miliband is a really nice guy. The need to


differentiate between making the party feel ABOUT losing a making


the party face up to what it needs to get into shape again. He is yet


to do that, hasn't he? If he has started the process. He has the


space now. I think a lot of us, and a lot of our people, have found it


hard to adapt to the fact the are no longer in government. It cannot


have opened debates. If somebody says something... We are having


them, why can't you? I think the Labour Party can have a much more


lively and much more robust debate about past, present and future. Ed


is getting a very bad press most of the time. He should get a


reasonable press after today. Ultimately, politics is about


making big strategic choices. I do not think we up their lead in terms


of being clear about the strategy we want to pursue. -- we are bare.


Up he said he would be the Iain Duncan-Smith of the Labour Party.


can remember, that is ridiculous, it cannot be as bad as that. In the


latest poll in the Independent on Sunday, it says that Ed Miliband is


more unpopular than Iain Duncan- Smith in the same stage of his


leadership. The mood around him has been very negative. He needs to


keep going. There has to be a big debate. There is no problem with


having an open debate and differences of opinion about why we


lost and the economic policies pursued, we should have that debate.


Ed does have the manner. He has a nice touch with people. He is


developing in Parliament. The important thing is about policy. We


can afford to have a much more robust debate the we're having at


the moment. Some in your party will not one that debate. There is no


agreement over the past. Some people in the party, Ed Balls among


others, think a debate that looks to the past is distracting. The


next election should be fought on future issues. You should not enter


an argument about who did what rank in the last Parliament, at the last


government. That is why we should all recognise that nobody has


anything to fear. I think it would do the Labour Party a lot of good.


Every time I read about, if somebody says something slightly


different to what Ed has said, there is a plot going on. There is


no plot that I know off. It is a desire to learn lessons about why


we lost and what we did when we were winning elections. That is


really important. Just a comment on the poll thing. Whoever won the


leadership election, with the in a difficult position. That is the


biggest story. All of them would be in trouble. Unless you have this


debate, that is all we will talk about. The Tory high command view


at the moment where they have not got a lot to cheer about because


they're in the worst part of the political and economic cycle... Of


the second worst part. These draw they grasp is that we're up against


Ed Miliband, they say. Isn't that dangerously complacent? It is good


for rattling the other side. When Iain Duncan Smith was leader we


used to have a weekly meeting, sitting down. We used to work out


what his drinks were, what his weaknesses were. -- his strengths.


You should never underestimate your Thank you for being with us. And


things aren't moving with the News of the World story and we learnt


that the court has also suspended its dealings with News of the World


and an investigation is taking place. It's often thought the


French dress better than us, cook better food than us and produce


better wine. And, of course, they strike better than us. According to


the French entrepreneur PY Gerbeau, they take to the streets on an


almost daily basis. Here's his soapbox on why we should not be


trying to emulate our friends across the Channel. I left my


beloved France 11 years ago to work and live in the UK, mainly to avoid


the end this French striking culture. There is a strike almost


every day which not only paralyses the country but also stops any


entrepreneurs of being able to run any business. The French population


is constantly taken hostage by trade unions that basically to not


represent anybody in France. This is a recipe for disaster. The UK


has always been synonymous with the fantastic business model were an


entrepreneur can succeed and were the trade unions are no safeguard


but can be supportive, unlike in France, where they are entirely


destructive. There is a big pot. With Brussels and its constant


threat of bringing more red tape to the showers and the slow, dangerous


drift towards the field French economic system, we have a massive


reason to be worried. Last week saw much protest which could only be


the tip of the iceberg with cuts coming in and as a businessman I


question what impact it will have on UK plc because all of us should


focus on three things - getting ourselves out of recession, making


sure we create and protect jobs and make sure the country gets back on


its front foot. The UK population is desperate for good news, to be


able to face the tough economy. But the reality of our day-to-day life


is transport chaos, massive strikes, the Olympics, which should have


been the greatest news but it's a project four times over budget and


the population isn't able to buy tickets. That isn't a recipe to


motivate and inspire people. We're joined now by PY Gerbeau. We get


people to crunch numbers, you do not deserve your reputation. You


are actually the European average. We do it very noisily and disturb


everybody. They bring sheep and tractors and stop everything.


hardly take to the streets. And with so many cuts and so much pain,


is it not right and proper in a democracy that people can come out?


A exactly, I am not against trade unions. In France they're totally


disruptive and I am totally for the liberty of protesting. My problem


is when they take people hostage, people cannot go to work.


convenient strike is pointless in many people's eyes? Nobody will


notice! Were we to like us to go on strike?! We can go on strike we


should not have the opportunity to disturb people's lives and take


them hostage. That is what my problem is and that is what the


entrepreneurial spirit has disappeared and why my colleagues


are economic refugees. Alastair Campbell, you were talking the Big


Top, is that where we should be going? Convenient strikes? I have


been at a few strikes in France and their like social occasions, people


bring their children and food and wine and they sit around. They do


have a very different attitude. Partly it is about the media, our


media is very conditioned to covering strikes from a very


negative perspective. Striking is always bad. In France, a lot of


people think they are part of the industrial culture. There was more


public support. I agree with Alastair. Let David Davies come in


on this... I think they chewed strikers to cure advice, until


three in the morning. Who noticed? On the issue of striking, it is an


important point, is it right, morally, for the public sector to


be striking when actually in many areas they are better off than in


the private sector? The private sector perhaps complaint that it


did it do? To be serious, they should be tougher rules for public


sector strikes. If you are in the private sector and go on strike,


there is a competitor who will look after your customers and the public


sector there is a monopoly, you cannot get to work, you cannot do a


job. Whatever that might be. In those circumstances, we have had


debate about requiring the majority of the workforce and not just the


electorate. Vince Cable is playing footsie with this notion. Should we


look at the terms and conditions of the strikes? He is playing footsie,


and the balance is right. Thatcher pushed this in a very certain


direction and it came back a little bit but this whole idea that the


public sector leader these gilded lives with their so-called gold-


plated pensions, a teacher who works for several decades doing a


bloody good job, they don't end up on these massive pensions that


people talk about. They will have a half a million pound pension pot!


They will have a decent pension that will retire them over their


old age. Better than most people, ordinary workers, will know. That


is because of what has happened to the pensions industry but I still


think that playing this as a game between the private sector being


terribly poor and the public sector... We are running at a time,


very quickly, looking at this, is there room for negotiation or are


strikes inevitable over the next few months? There should be room


for negotiation and advanced in his public support but this is changing.


There is a lobby group of traditional workers who are fed up


with being taking -- taken hostage. There is a place for protesting.


France they always say they want change but when it comes to it,


they don't. We are special that we! Thank you very much for being with


us. If you ask politicos what the most memorable debates in


Parliament have been recently, they'd probably say the ones about


wild animals in circuses and voting rights for prisoners. They might


never have happened if it hadn't been for the relatively new


Backbench Business Committee. You might never have heard of it but


it's becoming an increasingly powerful way for backbenchers to


get stuff off their chests. Yesterday Adam had a bit of a nose


around. It is Tuesday at 1pm and MPs are flocking to the regular


meeting of the backbench business committee. They will compete in a


Dragon's Den style format for a slot to have a debate on the topic


of their choice. If they do secure that, it can lead to fireworks...


Can be to prisoners should not have the vote. Rapists, drug dealers,


frankly it does not matter what the crime is. Given its seriousness.


Many of these animals have been so domesticated over so many years, to


wrench them out of the life there used to what be more cruel...


community was created as part of a package of reforms to plump up the


role of backbench MPs. It has just celebrated its first birthday.


are to meet congratulate the backbench committee over the last


year. It has made a difference in Parliament and I think it is quite


right that actually a House of Commons can choose to debate the


subject of its choosing on a motion of its choosing at a time of his


choosing. That is right and it has discussed a range of issues from


the very mundane to the quite obscure. It has been a year of


bread and circuses! The backbench business committee is responsible


for scheduling debates on 35 days of the year and they would love


more. But that would require the Government to seriously relax its


grip on the Commons timetable. We can speak now to the chair of the


Backbench Business Committee, the Labour MP Natascha Engel. Welcome


to the Daily Politics. Are you the most popular woman in Parliament?!


I don't think so. It depends on who you talk to. Not with the


Government. Backbench MPs are always eager to get their


particular hobby-horse aired and they must come to you? Yes, and I


think that has been the one innovation that we have introduced


that has been successful. We are guided by what backbenchers bring


to us rather than a community of it people just making up the bits as


we go along. What criteria do you use? Topicality is very important.


But we do look at making sure that we do not choose debates that are


merely in opposition to the Government, we want to hold the


Government to account and there is a subtle difference but it is


important. We want cross-party support for debates, we don't just


want... We have had this on everything. It isn't an extra


vehicle for the opposition? It is for things that Parliament wants to


discuss? Absolutely right. Which the executive might not want to


discuss? If we look at the phone hacking scandal, for example, if


the speaker had not wanted any urgent debate today, that is the


sort of thing that the Government may not bring to the floor of the


house and we now have a way of bringing a foreword by coming to


the backbench committee. You have a Dragon's Den star performers. You


have appeared in front of this? What did you have to do? Did you


bring any invention? I had to bring Jack Straw! That is a little


invention! And I made my case. Why does this matter? It was prisoners


votes. Why did this matter? The House disagreed with the government


line and so we wanted to make that point. And I think a change the


Government's position. We got that you get, we had a huge debate with


the huge turnout and it was a great victory on one side and the


government had to change its position. Do the party whips try to


influence you? Singing, I don't think that is a good idea. They are


the wrong party whips! They don't try to influence me and they don't


talk to me that often. Something the Labour whips may not like


discussed? It has not worked out like that. What happens is that it


really is the backbenchers. Sometimes there is a sense that


backbenchers have been influenced a little bit by the party whips but


we can see through that quickly. So, no, it isn't like that. What is the


next did it? We have had all our time taken away and that is a


problem, it is time allocated by government. Back to work in the


autumn? Absolutely. Thank you for coming in and we will keep an eye


on that. And the answer to our Guess the Year competition was 1985.


Guess what? I think it was! We will check... We will not pick any


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