Browse content similar to 06/07/2011. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Good morning, this is the Daily Politics. Tabloid journalism in the | :00:22. | :00:27. | |
dock. More damaging allegations over phone hacking at News of the | :00:28. | :00:31. | |
World. Claims that its former editor, Andy Coulson, once David | :00:31. | :00:33. | |
Cameron's right-hand man, authorised payments to police | :00:33. | :00:38. | |
officers. Where will it all end? MPs debate the whole affair this | :00:38. | :00:44. | |
afternoon. We'll have the latest. Who wants to take on David Cameron | :00:44. | :00:48. | |
at PMQs? Last week it was The Speaker. This week, will Ed make | :00:48. | :00:54. | |
more of a mark? Join us for all the live action at midday. We celebrate | :00:55. | :00:57. | |
the achievements of the House of Commons Backbench Business | :00:57. | :01:02. | |
Committee. It is not as boring as it sounds. In fact, quite the | :01:02. | :01:12. | |
opposite. And what do the French do best? Strike of course. PY Gerbeau | :01:12. | :01:22. | |
:01:22. | :01:23. | ||
tells us why we should not be Yes, all that and more coming up in | :01:23. | :01:32. | |
the next 90 minutes of TV wizardry at its best. And with us for the | :01:32. | :01:35. | |
duration, we have the Voldermort and Dumbledore of political thought. | :01:35. | :01:43. | |
I leave it to you to decide which is which. Yes, with us today is | :01:43. | :01:45. | |
Tony Blair's former Director of Communications, Alistair Campbell, | :01:45. | :01:51. | |
and the former Shadow Home Secretary, David Davis. Now first | :01:51. | :01:55. | |
let's turn our attention to a story that caught our eye on page six of | :01:55. | :02:05. | |
:02:05. | :02:11. | ||
It may be a good day to very bad news. Because, this afternoon, the | :02:11. | :02:14. | |
House of Commons is to hold an emergency debate about the News of | :02:14. | :02:17. | |
the World phone hacking controversy - a story we covered in depth | :02:17. | :02:25. | |
yesterday. New allegations have emerged overnight and this morning. | :02:25. | :02:32. | |
Anita has more. The pressure is piling up on Rupert Murdoch's News | :02:32. | :02:38. | |
International. We already know of allegations that Milly Dowler's | :02:38. | :02:41. | |
phone was hacked and now it has been alleged the parents of the | :02:41. | :02:44. | |
murdered Soham girls, Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman, may have also | :02:44. | :02:50. | |
had their phones intercepted. It has also been revealed that at | :02:50. | :02:53. | |
least one family of one of the 7/7 bombing victims has been contacted | :02:53. | :03:03. | |
by the police and told their phone may have been hacked. Another | :03:03. | :03:07. | |
parent has said he was contacted. But that's not all, News | :03:07. | :03:10. | |
International have now confirmed that they have handed emails over | :03:10. | :03:12. | |
to an investigation which allegedly shows former News of the World | :03:13. | :03:17. | |
Editor, Andy Coulson, authorised payments to the police. This brings | :03:17. | :03:20. | |
the saga right to the door of David Cameron as Mr Coulson was | :03:20. | :03:22. | |
previously the Prime Minister's Director of Communications before | :03:22. | :03:27. | |
he resigned. The allegations also heap pressure on Rebekah Brooks, | :03:27. | :03:30. | |
now a senior executive at News International, who was Editor of | :03:30. | :03:32. | |
News of the World when the voicemails of Milly Dowler were | :03:32. | :03:39. | |
allegedly intercepted. But it is not just News International | :03:39. | :03:44. | |
newspapers who are making the headlines. Along with the Sun, the | :03:44. | :03:47. | |
Daily Mirror has been charged with contempt of court over stories | :03:47. | :03:54. | |
published following the murder of Jo Yeates. Little wonder perhaps | :03:54. | :03:57. | |
that a recent MORI poll on public trust found that only 19% of people | :03:57. | :04:07. | |
:04:07. | :04:15. | ||
They trust presenters a bit more. We're joined now by the former | :04:15. | :04:18. | |
Chairman of the Conservative Party, Norman Fowler, who has been calling | :04:18. | :04:23. | |
for an urgent independent inquiry into how the media operates. You'd | :04:23. | :04:28. | |
do not, at the moment, look as if you're going to get your way, am I | :04:28. | :04:36. | |
right? I think you are probably wrong. I have been doing this for | :04:36. | :04:41. | |
six months. Bit by bit the Government has been edging towards | :04:41. | :04:46. | |
it. Yesterday, a minister said in the House of Lords they were not | :04:46. | :04:52. | |
actually going to rule it out. I think we will get it. I do not | :04:52. | :04:56. | |
understand why the Government does not do it. They have said they have | :04:56. | :05:05. | |
to wait for the police inquiry. Are they right to do that? Yes. You can | :05:05. | :05:12. | |
announce it now that after the police inquiries are ended and the | :05:12. | :05:18. | |
court cases have come to an end, then you can do that. It should go | :05:18. | :05:24. | |
much wider than News of the World and phone hacking. We have | :05:24. | :05:30. | |
discussed in the use of private investigations, the links between | :05:30. | :05:35. | |
police and private investigators have - it is criminality at | :05:35. | :05:41. | |
virtually every level of newspapers. Norman has been pushing on this for | :05:41. | :05:46. | |
some time. The press has been in denial. If David Cameron has any | :05:46. | :05:51. | |
sense, he will announce a wide- ranging inquiry to take place as | :05:51. | :05:59. | |
soon as it is practical. Who could do it? It is difficult to think of | :05:59. | :06:05. | |
anyone above you, or below. Personally I think it has almost | :06:05. | :06:10. | |
got to a point where you need a judicial inquiry. You need the | :06:10. | :06:16. | |
ability of the Chairman of the inquiry to subpoena people, bring | :06:16. | :06:22. | |
them in and put them under oath. the media, we think judges are | :06:22. | :06:30. | |
hostile to the press. You sometimes think that. If it has got to carry | :06:30. | :06:35. | |
public support, then I think if you put a judge in charge of it, and | :06:35. | :06:42. | |
other people who are expert in this area, then I think you get the best | :06:42. | :06:49. | |
possible service. It has to have investigative capabilities. It will | :06:49. | :06:59. | |
:06:59. | :07:00. | ||
not happen soon. We did announce an inquiry. Here you have at least one | :07:00. | :07:05. | |
criminal event, if it is true, paying policeman is a criminal | :07:05. | :07:11. | |
offence. Most of this hacking is a criminal offence. The three of you | :07:12. | :07:19. | |
want an inquiry. How much of a mistake was it for David Cameron to | :07:19. | :07:24. | |
hire and Nicholson as spin-doctor in opposition and then make him | :07:24. | :07:34. | |
head of communications? -- Andy Coulson. He knew he had been | :07:34. | :07:38. | |
involved and it appeared he did the honourable thing and step down. | :07:38. | :07:46. | |
knew there was a hacking investigation. I do not think he | :07:46. | :07:52. | |
could walk away at that point. he established eyeball to or -- | :07:52. | :07:56. | |
eyeball to eyeball that nothing would emerged that was potentially | :07:56. | :08:06. | |
:08:06. | :08:06. | ||
embarrassing, I can never be clear that that happened. We do know that | :08:06. | :08:10. | |
step-by-step it has become more serious. It was not on the scale it | :08:10. | :08:16. | |
is now. It has gone from the Westminster wine bars to every pub | :08:16. | :08:22. | |
in the learned. This week it has been avalanche. We have some | :08:23. | :08:28. | |
breaking news with Nick Robinson. He has been working hard this | :08:28. | :08:33. | |
morning. Welcome to the programme earlier than usual on a Wednesday. | :08:33. | :08:36. | |
I understand that News International executives have | :08:36. | :08:42. | |
uncovered what they believed to be evidence of who in the organisation | :08:42. | :08:46. | |
sanctioned and commissioned the hacking off the phone off Milly | :08:46. | :08:52. | |
Dowler. You remember that Rebekah Brooks, the chief executive officer | :08:52. | :08:55. | |
of News International, said when this revelation came out that she | :08:55. | :09:00. | |
was shocked and appalled, I am told the evidence does not point to her. | :09:00. | :09:06. | |
They did do a documentary will, and evidence trawl, including e-mail | :09:06. | :09:10. | |
from within the organisation and they believe they have pieced | :09:10. | :09:16. | |
together the jigsaw of who Glenn Mulcaire, the private investigator | :09:16. | :09:20. | |
who apologised yesterday, who exactly he was dealing with and on | :09:20. | :09:26. | |
what basis. Instant mate we want to know who that is was Doug News | :09:26. | :09:36. | |
International are not going to save. I cannot say because I do not know. | :09:36. | :09:40. | |
I am not hinting it is Andy Coulson because I have no evidence to | :09:40. | :09:49. | |
suggest it was him. He has always denied some wrongdoing. News | :09:49. | :09:53. | |
International believe they know pretty clearly who was involved. | :09:53. | :09:57. | |
You would assume they would have to discipline someone if they were | :09:57. | :10:01. | |
still on the staff or if they do not discipline someone, they are | :10:01. | :10:07. | |
suggesting it is someone who already left the building. It is | :10:07. | :10:11. | |
clear that deputy heads must roll. When deputy head's role, they have | :10:11. | :10:19. | |
a habit of telling you what the boss told you. It is not | :10:19. | :10:22. | |
necessarily a get out of jail card for Rebekah Wade because it | :10:22. | :10:28. | |
happened on her watch and it may have been one of her senior | :10:28. | :10:32. | |
executives. What is interesting about that is the phrase, happened | :10:32. | :10:36. | |
on her watch. And Nicholson resigned as editor of News of the | :10:36. | :10:43. | |
World insisting that he did not know anything about phone hacking. | :10:43. | :10:48. | |
-- Andy Coulson. He had to go because it happened on his watch. | :10:48. | :10:53. | |
Rebekah Brooks does not regard that as a precedent that, in that case, | :10:53. | :10:58. | |
someone had gone to prison - the royal reporter of the News of the | :10:58. | :11:04. | |
World. She is not planning to resign simply because it happened | :11:04. | :11:07. | |
on her watch. She said it was inconceivable she knew about it at | :11:07. | :11:12. | |
the time. There is still a determination she will continue to | :11:12. | :11:18. | |
lead to this company. The owners of this company - its shareholders - | :11:18. | :11:23. | |
will have to contemplate whether she credibly can continue to lead | :11:23. | :11:27. | |
both the investigation and the company when it is coming in for | :11:27. | :11:33. | |
such huge criticism. All eyes will be on what David Cameron has to say | :11:33. | :11:36. | |
at Prime Minister's questions in a few minutes' time about the scandal | :11:36. | :11:45. | |
as a whole and about Andy Coulson. Just briefly on that, there is | :11:45. | :11:51. | |
remarkable revelation that came out last night, I forget when but News | :11:51. | :11:57. | |
International itself has handed over at e-mails to the police | :11:57. | :12:02. | |
purporting to show that Andy Coulson was making substantial | :12:02. | :12:08. | |
payments to the police itself. What do we know about that? We know that | :12:08. | :12:13. | |
is what happened. News International handed over those e- | :12:13. | :12:18. | |
mails. Why do we know it? Vanity Fair approached News International | :12:18. | :12:23. | |
and they had the story saying that News International were withholding | :12:23. | :12:27. | |
the e-mails. They said they were so determined to clear their name on | :12:27. | :12:31. | |
at least the issue of co-operating with the police, they decided to | :12:31. | :12:37. | |
confirm that many weeks ago they did indeed hand over e-mails that | :12:37. | :12:40. | |
allegedly showed there were a series of payments to the police | :12:40. | :12:44. | |
sanctioned by Andy Coulson when he was editor of News of the World. It | :12:44. | :12:50. | |
makes it a more political story than it was before. I do not know | :12:50. | :12:54. | |
what the Prime Minister will say. I am clear there is a mood change | :12:54. | :12:59. | |
among those people around David Cameron. They realise it will no | :12:59. | :13:04. | |
longer do to simply say it is a police matter, wait for the | :13:04. | :13:09. | |
evidence to be uncovered. Thank you very much. If Vanity Fair can get | :13:09. | :13:15. | |
stories, there will be a lot coming up. If the distinction is that | :13:15. | :13:19. | |
somebody went to prison, I will be astonished when it is concluded, | :13:19. | :13:27. | |
that a lot of people... If it is right to send someone to prison for | :13:27. | :13:35. | |
hacking into a royal... Most people think that it is bad. We had all | :13:36. | :13:39. | |
these stories from News International. They have had a | :13:39. | :13:45. | |
thorough investigation. They have looked at the e-mails. Every time | :13:46. | :13:50. | |
they are back on the defensive, they find new e-mails. I believe | :13:50. | :13:54. | |
what has happened is because we have Prime Minister's Questions and | :13:54. | :14:01. | |
there is the MPs debate, they want big brokers to switch to David | :14:01. | :14:10. | |
Cameron and Andy Coulson. -- the focus. Can Rebekah Brooks survive? | :14:10. | :14:16. | |
I think it will be very difficult. If Rupert Murdoch wants to touch | :14:16. | :14:22. | |
things out, he well. It has now reached a position where, if I had | :14:22. | :14:29. | |
been in the back of a cab with all the people that had been involved, | :14:29. | :14:35. | |
they're all talking about it. It has reached eight tipping point. | :14:35. | :14:44. | |
is embarrassing for David Cameron because of his relation with Andy | :14:44. | :14:52. | |
Coulson. You supped with these people as well? At times. So were | :14:52. | :14:58. | |
you, so were the BBC. Throughout the time of Tony Blair in Downing | :14:58. | :15:05. | |
Street, I was there once. Rebekah Wade was there more than once. | :15:05. | :15:11. | |
was Rupert Murdoch. You were very close. You are both just as bad. | :15:11. | :15:16. | |
That makes the point. The worst thing that can happen is it becomes | :15:16. | :15:21. | |
a party political debate. As you rightly say, both parties have been | :15:21. | :15:26. | |
guilty of getting too near to the Rupert Murdoch press in all kinds | :15:26. | :15:32. | |
of ways. What one needs to do is look at the issue itself which is | :15:32. | :15:38. | |
the abuse of power. I do agree with that. Latterly towards the end of | :15:38. | :15:42. | |
the Tony Blair pecked -- Premiership, I was adding that the | :15:42. | :15:48. | |
press had become a real problem. Tony should be thinking about doing | :15:48. | :15:51. | |
something. He always said the public cared more about health and | :15:52. | :15:57. | |
education and jobs and it was not the parity. David Cameron now has | :15:57. | :16:02. | |
to show some leadership on this. The public has accepted the press | :16:02. | :16:07. | |
they get is not the press they deserve. The mood has changed. Nick | :16:07. | :16:14. | |
is right about that. Up until a short time ago, less than 24 hours | :16:14. | :16:22. | |
ago, people were still talking in terms of this is simply a media... | :16:22. | :16:27. | |
David Cameron told me he was not going to do to Rupert Murdoch what | :16:27. | :16:30. | |
Tony Blair and Alastair Campbell had done. Within six months he is | :16:30. | :16:34. | |
doing exactly that. It seems the political leaders of our country | :16:34. | :16:44. | |
feel they cannot run this country There is little doubt that the | :16:44. | :16:46. | |
pressure on any Prime Minister is to talk to these people more than | :16:47. | :16:54. | |
they should. Can I make one other point? Of course the pressure is | :16:54. | :16:57. | |
building but the risk in politics is when the pressure gets massively | :16:57. | :17:01. | |
on to one side and we have a free press and must be very careful that | :17:01. | :17:09. | |
the swing the other way does not become one of over-regulation. | :17:09. | :17:17. | |
is fine, as long as that inquiry includes, and I agree in principle, | :17:17. | :17:20. | |
that that inquiry includes the Press Complaints Commission and | :17:20. | :17:26. | |
what those powers and functions are. This has been going on for years. | :17:27. | :17:31. | |
As I said to the leader of the Press Complaints Commission | :17:31. | :17:34. | |
yesterday, the report said if Sega Red Ed - aka self-regulation did | :17:34. | :17:42. | |
not work, we must move to statutory. In principle I still support self- | :17:42. | :17:47. | |
regulation but yesterday, you're interview showed why the Press | :17:47. | :17:51. | |
Complaints Commission has become such a joke. It is a body of the | :17:51. | :17:57. | |
press and for the press. Any inquiry has to have investigative | :17:57. | :18:04. | |
powers but policy, including what system of regulation replaces this. | :18:04. | :18:09. | |
Dare I say said, these issues that have come up, they're far too big | :18:09. | :18:13. | |
for any self-regulating organisation, this is about police | :18:13. | :18:20. | |
not doing their job, accepting criminal action. There has always | :18:20. | :18:25. | |
been a grey area in the press were we accept there is public interest | :18:25. | :18:29. | |
for buying stolen material. And people have not objected to this | :18:29. | :18:32. | |
because of the public interest but what has happened is police have | :18:32. | :18:36. | |
stepped back completely and except that the police -- press can do | :18:36. | :18:41. | |
what they want. This is bigger than any self-regulatory operation. | :18:41. | :18:45. | |
Would anyone want the sun or the News of the World having an | :18:45. | :18:51. | |
endorsement for the next election? Let me just say something. We did | :18:51. | :18:59. | |
not win the election in 1987 because of the Sun. Or 1992? Even | :18:59. | :19:03. | |
on that, we did not lose the election in 1982. I have myself | :19:03. | :19:13. | |
said the Sun likes to be on the winning side. But that begs the | :19:13. | :19:18. | |
question, why were you so close? In your darkest hour, the days after | :19:18. | :19:26. | |
the death of David Kelly, who said to you, you have done nothing wrong, | :19:26. | :19:31. | |
just hang in and don't give them the satisfaction? Rebekah Wade. | :19:31. | :19:34. | |
was a press and communications person and it would be ordered by | :19:34. | :19:44. | |
was not speaking to journalists. That is a personal message. I know. | :19:44. | :19:49. | |
Painting to Downing Street endlessly... Lots of people... I am | :19:49. | :19:53. | |
not saying they do not matter, I say that their influence and | :19:53. | :19:58. | |
standing is overstated, not least by themselves. The son marketed | :19:58. | :20:03. | |
themselves as the endorsement for the election. Of course it | :20:03. | :20:07. | |
matters... Weather David Cameron not win a majority of with | :20:07. | :20:11. | |
virtually all the press behind him? He if you have one organisation | :20:11. | :20:16. | |
that controls almost 40% of the press, it is inevitable that that | :20:16. | :20:19. | |
matters for political leaders, we must be realistic. We have not got | :20:19. | :20:24. | |
time for the rights and wrongs. At the very least, should the | :20:24. | :20:34. | |
:20:34. | :20:34. | ||
Government delay the Murdoch bid for BSkyB? Yes. Yes. And on that | :20:34. | :20:39. | |
uncharacteristic and shock unanimity, we must move on. You are | :20:39. | :20:46. | |
being held hostage. Norman Fowler, the release you! Fascinating | :20:46. | :20:52. | |
discussion. We will go to another. I don't want any doubt out there. | :20:52. | :20:58. | |
The very well-known statutory instruments committee. It is a body | :20:58. | :21:05. | |
we like to keep close tabs on every now and then. Stop that! Yesterday | :21:05. | :21:08. | |
the members backed a proposal to make extra loans worth around �9 | :21:08. | :21:10. | |
billion available to the International Monetary Fund to fund | :21:10. | :21:14. | |
the bailout of Greece. However, Labour members voted no and a group | :21:14. | :21:17. | |
of Conservative non-members gate- crashed the meeting to vent their | :21:17. | :21:25. | |
fury at the plans. Because of the vote in favour, the proposal should | :21:25. | :21:28. | |
go to what's known as a silent vote in the house, but the rebels | :21:28. | :21:31. | |
haven't given up hope and one of the chief troublemakers, the | :21:31. | :21:41. | |
:21:41. | :21:43. | ||
Conservative MP, Douglas Carswell, joins us now. Before we learn about | :21:43. | :21:49. | |
the noise you'll make, tell us what happened yesterday. These | :21:49. | :21:52. | |
committees are normally very staid affairs and the powers that be | :21:52. | :21:55. | |
expect to get business through. On lot of none committee members who | :21:55. | :22:00. | |
felt strongly about this, and you can buy long-term care for older | :22:00. | :22:03. | |
folk with that money and it is wrong to increase the subscription | :22:03. | :22:06. | |
in this way. We turned up to say what we thought our constituents | :22:06. | :22:11. | |
would like us to say. I'm very pleased that on the strength of the | :22:11. | :22:14. | |
argument, Labour voted against these proposals and there will be a | :22:14. | :22:18. | |
ballot of the whole house. Short of making a racket about this, you | :22:18. | :22:23. | |
will not be able to change anything? I am not so sure. There | :22:23. | :22:28. | |
is a fundamental problem, the IMF seems to preside over the first be | :22:28. | :22:32. | |
like in history that has involved ladling more water into the boat. | :22:32. | :22:37. | |
Traditionally, the IMF has followed the principle of what you might | :22:37. | :22:42. | |
call devaluation of the currency, defaulting on debt and downsizing | :22:42. | :22:47. | |
the public sector. Yet, in the Eurozone, it does the opposite and | :22:47. | :22:52. | |
by coughing up �9.2 billion, we allow this problem to be made worse. | :22:52. | :22:57. | |
That is an issue of real concern. Thank you very much. Let's turn to | :22:57. | :23:01. | |
the panel. Is there any justification for giving this money | :23:01. | :23:06. | |
to the IMF when they needed so badly at home? I have not follow | :23:06. | :23:10. | |
the argument they had yesterday but I can see circumstances when it | :23:10. | :23:15. | |
would be, yes. Even though we have the obligation, you would say...? | :23:15. | :23:21. | |
Should we? I can see circumstances were we could. Just because we have | :23:21. | :23:25. | |
massive problems domestically, it does not mean you don't have | :23:25. | :23:29. | |
international obligations. I did not follow the debate yesterday but | :23:29. | :23:33. | |
I can see circumstances were that could be the case. Labour MPs say | :23:33. | :23:38. | |
no, we hate this. They were at this and they are across the argument. | :23:38. | :23:42. | |
You asked me the question if I could see the circumstances and I | :23:42. | :23:48. | |
say yes, I can. I am trying to find out whether, even though we have | :23:48. | :23:52. | |
the obligation, if we should be able to back out gracefully? Is it | :23:52. | :23:57. | |
morally wrong to give this money away? The Treasury minister today | :23:57. | :24:00. | |
said we have to pay this money or we will lose a receipt at the table. | :24:00. | :24:05. | |
It must be the most expensive armchair in history. The truth is, | :24:05. | :24:10. | |
the IMF should not do this, they should leave it to the ECB. The | :24:10. | :24:14. | |
real point is that bailing out something, bailing out a country | :24:14. | :24:17. | |
and actually softening the blow for the country, the country must take | :24:17. | :24:24. | |
measures itself to bring its own economy under control. There are | :24:24. | :24:31. | |
strings attached and you have listened to this. Yes... My point | :24:31. | :24:35. | |
is we cannot separate the globalised economy and domestic and | :24:35. | :24:42. | |
international. Very briefly, do we keep that seat at the table at any | :24:42. | :24:46. | |
cost? Of course, we do not keep the seat at any cost but we must take | :24:46. | :24:51. | |
the arguments on its merits. I have not followed this argument, I say | :24:51. | :24:54. | |
that we do have as a big international player, we must | :24:54. | :25:01. | |
recognise this. Thank you but very much for being with us. Reports are | :25:01. | :25:05. | |
coming to us that this might be the last we see of Speaker Bercow for a | :25:05. | :25:08. | |
while. Stop crying at the back! After the robust exchanges between | :25:08. | :25:11. | |
him and the Prime Minister last week, an aide to David Cameron has | :25:11. | :25:14. | |
suggested John Bercow could now be off to Afghanistan to take part in | :25:14. | :25:21. | |
a job swap with the speaker of the Afghan parliament. No doubt Channel | :25:21. | :25:25. | |
4 will have a reality show on this! Lucky old him. Apparently, Mr | :25:25. | :25:29. | |
Bercow says he'll only go if he can take a Daily Politics mug with him. | :25:29. | :25:33. | |
But he hasn't got one, so he'll have to enter this week's Guess the | :25:33. | :25:38. | |
Year competition. Yes, indeed. Hope you're watching carefully, Mr | :25:38. | :25:48. | |
:25:48. | :26:04. | ||
Speaker. We are on iPlayer! Can you There is so much harassment, we | :26:04. | :26:14. | |
:26:14. | :26:28. | ||
None of the members of the commission are Marxist and the | :26:28. | :26:38. | |
:26:38. | :26:44. | ||
arguments on the report are well- A Labour council hiring taxis to | :26:44. | :26:54. | |
:26:54. | :26:57. | ||
scuttle around the city and hand It is ideal for shopping, any | :26:57. | :27:07. | |
:27:07. | :27:16. | ||
To be in with a chance of winning a Daily Politics mug, send your | :27:16. | :27:19. | |
answer to our special quiz email address. That's [email protected]. | :27:19. | :27:22. | |
You can see the full terms and conditions for Guess the Year on | :27:22. | :27:29. | |
our website, bbc.co.uk/dailypolitics. Are used | :27:29. | :27:39. | |
:27:39. | :27:42. | ||
during his tea for him? Cross- party! -- are used during his tea? | :27:42. | :27:46. | |
Anyway, enough of this trivia! It's coming up to midday. Just take a | :27:46. | :27:50. | |
look at Big Ben. That can mean only one thing: Yes, Prime Minister's | :27:50. | :27:53. | |
Questions is on its way. And that's not all. James Landale is with us, | :27:53. | :27:59. | |
just back from accompanying the Prime Minister to Afghanistan. | :27:59. | :28:04. | |
Welcome back. Congratulations. Thank you. You told us that sending | :28:04. | :28:08. | |
the Speaker to Afghanistan isn't a joke? It is true, he will go out | :28:08. | :28:12. | |
there. We will get the Afghans bickered and MPs and Peers will be | :28:12. | :28:16. | |
sent out there, it's to beef up the Afghan parliamentary institutions. | :28:16. | :28:25. | |
That is the theory. That will really work. Hacking? Very hard for | :28:25. | :28:30. | |
the two front benches to ignore this. Both would rather. What | :28:30. | :28:35. | |
tactic does Mr Miliband play to get at Mr Cameron? It's a big Judgement | :28:35. | :28:39. | |
Call, for Ed Miliband, something which he presents himself as a | :28:39. | :28:44. | |
tribune of the people for? Putting pressure on the political Whitehall | :28:44. | :28:51. | |
Westminster elite? Or does he focus more on David Cameron's judgment in | :28:51. | :28:55. | |
Harry Andy Coulson. That is the choice he has. David Cameron, I | :28:55. | :28:59. | |
have been to a briefing at the Prime Minister's spokesman office | :28:59. | :29:02. | |
and we have no view on whether there should be an inquiry, just | :29:02. | :29:06. | |
the Government has the view that MPs should do get this. That line | :29:06. | :29:11. | |
will not hold. Does David Cameron be bold and does he say something | :29:11. | :29:16. | |
has to change? And how far does he go? Does he keep this to the narrow | :29:16. | :29:20. | |
focus on what happened but does he said we need a wider look at the | :29:20. | :29:24. | |
whole issue of media regulation? What angle would you advise and to | :29:24. | :29:29. | |
tie? The first. I would not go down the road of Andy Coulson and | :29:29. | :29:33. | |
Stephen Cameron, this is a bigger subject and he must stay focused on | :29:33. | :29:37. | |
the public revulsion and the public belief that there has to be changed | :29:37. | :29:41. | |
in the media system. If David Cameron is sensible, he will start | :29:41. | :29:44. | |
the process by which there will be an inquiry leading to a new system | :29:44. | :29:48. | |
of regulation. Afghanistan has been overshadowed by this, right or | :29:48. | :29:54. | |
wrong, but there will be a statement? We were on a flight | :29:54. | :29:58. | |
yesterday morning and the only arrived in the UK at 10pm last | :29:58. | :30:02. | |
night so do it Cameron has had a lot of catching up to do. There has | :30:02. | :30:06. | |
been a lot of work overnight and in terms of Ghana Stan, we will get a | :30:06. | :30:10. | |
reduction in troop numbers, around 500. The point is, David Cameron | :30:10. | :30:14. | |
has given in to the generals and he will delay this until the back end | :30:14. | :30:18. | |
of next year. There is a good few fighting seasons with large troop | :30:18. | :30:23. | |
numbers static. The message from the Government to the rest of the | :30:23. | :30:27. | |
NATO allies is, do what we do, not the Americans. But we must follow | :30:27. | :30:32. | |
the Americans? We are entirely dependent on their support system? | :30:32. | :30:36. | |
David Cameron's a collisions that by saying all combat troops will be | :30:36. | :30:41. | |
out by the end of 2014 gives them some slack and within that period, | :30:41. | :30:45. | |
to delay that process and he feels that he can do this by making | :30:45. | :30:49. | |
another statement. He must follow the aggregate timetable and he must | :30:49. | :30:54. | |
make sure the troops are as safe as possible. They will say, cut strips | :30:54. | :30:58. | |
and cost lives. Those who remain will be more vulnerable? Exactly. | :30:59. | :31:06. | |
I'm quite sure that will be the argument. You sense any U-turn? | :31:06. | :31:09. | |
is under huge public pressure. Whenever David Cameron talks about | :31:09. | :31:13. | |
this he talks about the context of... Yesterday, he said these are | :31:13. | :31:17. | |
the questions the public are asking. This is the reassurance I can give. | :31:17. | :31:27. | |
That is his context. Let's go I am sure the whole House will wish | :31:27. | :31:32. | |
to join me in paying tribute to Scott McLaren of The Royal Regiment | :31:33. | :31:38. | |
of Scotland. This week I witnessed at first hand the sacrifice of our | :31:38. | :31:41. | |
soldiers. I pay tribute to the bravery and dedication of this | :31:41. | :31:46. | |
particular soldier who was lost in such tragic circumstances. Our | :31:46. | :31:51. | |
thoughts will be with his family and friends. We pay tribute to him | :31:51. | :31:55. | |
and all like him his serve our country so magnificently in | :31:55. | :31:58. | |
Afghanistan and elsewhere. This morning I had meetings with | :31:59. | :32:03. | |
ministerial colleagues and others. I shall have further such meetings | :32:03. | :32:13. | |
:32:13. | :32:13. | ||
later today. I agree with the sentiments the Prime Minister has | :32:13. | :32:19. | |
made. It is a dreaded going thinking about the knock on the | :32:19. | :32:25. | |
door and he is lost in action. Our sympathies go with his father and | :32:25. | :32:31. | |
family at that particular time. Is it right, Mr Speaker, that | :32:31. | :32:39. | |
yesterday we gave �10 billion to be bailed out of the bank's in Greece? | :32:39. | :32:46. | |
We gave �7 billion to the bail out in Ireland. We gave 100 billion - | :32:46. | :32:53. | |
of this is the British tax pair - 100 billion a year for the quality | :32:53. | :32:59. | |
of the banks in this country, for insurance purposes and other | :32:59. | :33:04. | |
purposes. Why does the Prime Minister not get on his bike and go | :33:04. | :33:14. | |
:33:14. | :33:18. | ||
down to his friends in the City and sack the few spivs and speculators? | :33:18. | :33:23. | |
First of all, it is this government that has put a bank levy on the | :33:23. | :33:27. | |
banks so they are paying more in every year than they paid in the | :33:27. | :33:32. | |
bank bonus tax under the last government. In terms of Greece, I | :33:32. | :33:37. | |
have kept us out of the European bale out of Greece. In Ireland, | :33:37. | :33:41. | |
that economy is so close and integrated, it is right we give | :33:41. | :33:46. | |
them support. That is the right approach. This government is tough | :33:46. | :33:53. | |
in making sure the banks pay their fair share. Severe drought, | :33:54. | :33:57. | |
conflict and food prices have combined viciously in the Horn of | :33:57. | :34:02. | |
Africa creating desperate hunger and threatening the lives of | :34:02. | :34:10. | |
millions. What is the Government doing to help? As ever, we are | :34:10. | :34:14. | |
being extremely effective in trying to help with the crisis where 10 | :34:14. | :34:19. | |
million people are at threat of starvation. We are right to | :34:20. | :34:25. | |
maintain and increase our spending in this area - difficult as the | :34:25. | :34:30. | |
arguments sometimes are. In spite of the difficulties, it is nothing | :34:30. | :34:36. | |
like these people facing starvation and death unless we help them. | :34:36. | :34:41. | |
I join the Prime Minister in paying tribute to Highlander Scott | :34:41. | :34:45. | |
McCarron of the Highlanders forced Battalion The Royal Regiment of | :34:45. | :34:50. | |
Scotland. He was young man, serving our country who died in the most | :34:50. | :34:54. | |
horrific circumstances. The thoughts of the whole House are | :34:54. | :34:58. | |
with his family and friends. The whole country has been appalled | :34:58. | :35:04. | |
about the allegations of phone hacking - the 7/7 victims, the | :35:04. | :35:10. | |
parents of Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman, and of course Milly Dowler. | :35:10. | :35:15. | |
That anyone could listen to the messages and delete them, giving | :35:15. | :35:21. | |
false hope to those parents, is immoral and a disgrace. Given the | :35:21. | :35:26. | |
gravity of what has occurred, will the Prime Minister's support the | :35:26. | :35:32. | |
calls for a ball, independent, public inquiry into the practices | :35:32. | :35:39. | |
of British newspapers? Let me be very clear, yes, we do need to have | :35:39. | :35:44. | |
an inquiry, possibly inquiries into what has happened. We're no longer | :35:44. | :35:50. | |
talking about politicians and celebrities. We are talking about | :35:50. | :35:56. | |
murder victims, potentially terrorist victims, it is absolutely | :35:56. | :36:00. | |
disgusting. Everyone in this House and the country will be revolted at | :36:00. | :36:05. | |
what they have heard and seen on the television. May I make a couple | :36:05. | :36:10. | |
of points? People need to know there is a major police | :36:10. | :36:14. | |
investigation under way. It is one of the biggest police | :36:14. | :36:20. | |
investigations currently under way in our country. It does not involve | :36:20. | :36:23. | |
the police officers who were involved in the original | :36:23. | :36:29. | |
investigation. That clearly did not get to the trees. It is important | :36:29. | :36:34. | |
we had inquiries that are public and independent and have public | :36:34. | :36:39. | |
confidence. It seems there are two vital issues we need to look into. | :36:39. | :36:43. | |
The first is the original police inquiry and why did not get to the | :36:43. | :36:47. | |
bottom of what happened and the second is about the behaviour of | :36:47. | :36:53. | |
individual people and individual media organisations. A wider look | :36:53. | :36:58. | |
into media practices and ethics in this country. As he says, we cannot | :36:58. | :37:02. | |
start all that sort of inquiry immediately because you must not | :37:02. | :37:07. | |
jeopardise the police investigation. It may be possible to start some of | :37:07. | :37:11. | |
that work earlier. I'm very happy to discuss this with him, with | :37:11. | :37:15. | |
other party leaders to make sure we get this right and that lessons are | :37:16. | :37:22. | |
learnt from what has become a disgraceful episode. Let me say to | :37:22. | :37:26. | |
the Prime Minister I am encouraged that he does recognise now the need | :37:26. | :37:31. | |
for a full public inquiry into what happened. He is right to say this | :37:31. | :37:39. | |
the police investigation has taken its course. As he said in his | :37:39. | :37:44. | |
answer, that may take some years. It is possible for the Prime | :37:44. | :37:49. | |
Minister to start his process now. He should immediately appoint a | :37:49. | :37:54. | |
senior figure, potentially a judge, to lead this inquiry. Make clear it | :37:54. | :37:58. | |
will have the power to call witnesses under oath and establish | :37:58. | :38:03. | |
clear terms of reference, covering a number of key issues. The culture | :38:03. | :38:07. | |
and practices of the industry, the nature of regulation which is | :38:07. | :38:12. | |
absolutely crucial, and also the relationship between the police and | :38:12. | :38:18. | |
the media. I wonder whether he can just respond on those points. | :38:18. | :38:23. | |
want to respond positively. Of the two issues I mentioned, the conduct | :38:23. | :38:27. | |
of the earlier police inquiry and the broader lessons about ethics in | :38:27. | :38:32. | |
the media, I do not think it is possible to start an investigation | :38:32. | :38:37. | |
into the format until the police investigation is continued. There | :38:37. | :38:42. | |
would be a danger of jeopardising the current police inquiry. I do | :38:42. | :38:45. | |
think responding positively to what he says it may be possible to make | :38:45. | :38:50. | |
a start on other elements. I do not want us to rush this decision. I | :38:50. | :38:55. | |
want us to get it right, having discussed it with other party | :38:55. | :38:58. | |
leaders, the Attorney-General and the Cabinet Secretary. All too | :38:58. | :39:02. | |
often these inquiries are set up to early without thinking through what | :39:02. | :39:12. | |
:39:12. | :39:12. | ||
needs to be done. I think the Prime estate is applied -- implying that | :39:12. | :39:20. | |
it can start now and it is very important that we do so. A beer to | :39:20. | :39:29. | |
the day, he did appoint an inquiry about the treatment of detainees. | :39:29. | :39:34. | |
Let me go on to ask him about what happens in the meantime pending | :39:34. | :39:39. | |
this public inquiry. We have consistently said the BSkyB bid | :39:39. | :39:42. | |
should be referred to the Competition Commission and not | :39:42. | :39:46. | |
dealt with in the way the Culture Secretary has done. The Prime | :39:46. | :39:52. | |
Minister must realise the public will react with disbelief if, next | :39:52. | :39:57. | |
week, the decision is taken to go ahead with this deal at the time | :39:57. | :40:02. | |
when news International is subject to a major criminal investigation | :40:02. | :40:07. | |
and we do not yet know who charges will be laid against. Does the | :40:07. | :40:12. | |
Prime Minister agree the BSkyB bid should now be referred to the | :40:12. | :40:16. | |
Competition Commission to provide a breathing space that is required? | :40:16. | :40:21. | |
Let me answer the point about Gibson. It is a good and fair point. | :40:21. | :40:27. | |
We established the Gibson Inquiry but it has not made much process -- | :40:27. | :40:31. | |
progress until criminal proceedings had been brought to an end. You do | :40:32. | :40:36. | |
not want to jeopardise a police operation which you would do so if | :40:36. | :40:40. | |
you start questioning witnesses through a public inquiry process at | :40:40. | :40:44. | |
the same time they are being questioned through a police process. | :40:44. | :40:50. | |
I want us to get on with this issue. The faster we can set up other | :40:50. | :40:54. | |
elements of the inquiry, the happier I will be. About BSkyB, | :40:54. | :40:59. | |
what we have done is followed the correct legal processes. That is | :40:59. | :41:06. | |
what the Government has to do. The Secretary of State is in a quiet | :41:06. | :41:12. | |
side judicial rale - he has to follow that. The leader of the | :41:12. | :41:17. | |
Labour Party said that the issue of competition and plurality is | :41:17. | :41:20. | |
separate from the very important issue we are discussing today. | :41:20. | :41:25. | |
These processes must be followed properly, including bike of calm. | :41:25. | :41:34. | |
They have the duty to make a recommendation. -- including by | :41:34. | :41:40. | |
Ofcom. Mr Speaker, I am afraid that answer was out of touch. The public | :41:40. | :41:47. | |
will not accept the idea that, with this scandal engulfing the News of | :41:47. | :41:50. | |
the World and News International, that the Government should, in the | :41:50. | :41:55. | |
coming days be making a decision outside of the normal processes for | :41:55. | :42:00. | |
them to take control of one of the biggest media organisations in the | :42:01. | :42:05. | |
country. I know this is difficult for him but I strongly urge him to | :42:05. | :42:10. | |
think again and send this decision to the proper authority, which is | :42:10. | :42:14. | |
the Competition Commission. This will provide breathing space for | :42:14. | :42:19. | |
legitimacy and the proper decisions to be made. I would say to him that | :42:19. | :42:24. | |
the decision making has been through the proper processes. It is | :42:24. | :42:27. | |
right the Government acts are legally in every way. That is what | :42:27. | :42:32. | |
it has done. One is about morality and ethics and a police | :42:32. | :42:37. | |
investigator that needs to be carried out in the proper way. They | :42:37. | :42:41. | |
have total independence. The other is about plurality and competition | :42:41. | :42:46. | |
which has to act under the law. Incredible as he has done a U-turn | :42:46. | :42:53. | |
in order to look good in the House of Commons. Mr Speaker, this is not | :42:53. | :43:03. | |
:43:03. | :43:05. | ||
the time for technicalities or low We have said consistently, | :43:05. | :43:10. | |
throughout this process, that this bid should be referred to the | :43:10. | :43:14. | |
Competition Commission. This is the right way forward. The Prime | :43:14. | :43:20. | |
Minister should speak for the country on this issue. This is what | :43:20. | :43:25. | |
people want him to do. I hope he will think again because it is in | :43:25. | :43:28. | |
the interests of the media industry and the British public that this is | :43:28. | :43:32. | |
properly referred to the Competition Commission in the way | :43:32. | :43:37. | |
that all other bids are dealt with. What we also know, as well as | :43:37. | :43:42. | |
needing a public inquiry and the BSkyB bid referred to the | :43:42. | :43:45. | |
Competition Commission, these were not the actions of a rogue | :43:45. | :43:50. | |
individual or a road reporter but part of a wider, systematic pattern | :43:50. | :43:58. | |
of the abuses. The public sees no one wanting to take responsibility | :43:58. | :44:03. | |
for what happened. No one is denying the phone off Milly Dowler | :44:03. | :44:10. | |
was hat. No one is denying it happened on the watch of the editor | :44:10. | :44:15. | |
of the newspaper at the time. Will the Prime Minister join me if he | :44:15. | :44:18. | |
believes the people taking responsibility for insane she | :44:18. | :44:26. | |
should take responsibility and consider her position? -- in saying. | :44:26. | :44:30. | |
Let me deal with the technicalities. When you are dealing with the law, | :44:30. | :44:33. | |
you have to look at the technicalities because there is | :44:33. | :44:38. | |
something called up to process that you have to follow. That is | :44:38. | :44:45. | |
necessary for any government. -- called due process. Everyone needs | :44:46. | :44:50. | |
to ask searching questions at News International. Everyone is subject | :44:50. | :44:54. | |
to one of the largest police investigations under way in this | :44:54. | :44:58. | |
country. We should let the police do their work was done they should | :44:59. | :45:03. | |
follow the evidence, Brett it needs was a big people are guilty of | :45:03. | :45:08. | |
wrongdoing, they should have no hesitation in making sure they are | :45:08. | :45:18. | |
:45:18. | :45:19. | ||
I am clear, she should take responsibility and stand down. And | :45:19. | :45:24. | |
Mr Speaker, these events show a systematic set of abuses which | :45:24. | :45:27. | |
demonstrate the abuse of power without responsibility in the | :45:27. | :45:30. | |
country and is in the interests of democracy and the public that these | :45:30. | :45:33. | |
are sorted out. With the biggest press scandal in modern times | :45:33. | :45:37. | |
getting worse by the day, I'm afraid he has not shown the | :45:37. | :45:41. | |
leadership necessary today. He has not shown in leadership necessary | :45:41. | :45:46. | |
on BSkyB, or on a News International. And is it not the | :45:46. | :45:52. | |
case that if the public is to have confidence in him, he must accept | :45:52. | :45:59. | |
that he made a catastrophic error of judgment by bringing Andy | :45:59. | :46:09. | |
Coulson... Into the heart of his Downing Street machine? What | :46:09. | :46:15. | |
people... Order! Order! The Prime Minister should not have to shout | :46:15. | :46:20. | |
to be heard or should the leader of the opposition. It is thoroughly | :46:20. | :46:25. | |
disorderly. The Prime Minister will be heard. I take full | :46:25. | :46:28. | |
responsibility for everyone I employed and everyone I. And I take | :46:28. | :46:31. | |
responsibility for everything my Government does. What this | :46:32. | :46:36. | |
Government is doing is making sure that the public, and I felt | :46:36. | :46:40. | |
appalled by what has happened, murder victims, terrorist victims | :46:41. | :46:45. | |
who have had their phones tapped, that is disgraceful and there must | :46:45. | :46:48. | |
be a full police investigation of all the powers they need. That is | :46:48. | :46:51. | |
why it is important we have as inquiries to get to the bottom of | :46:51. | :46:55. | |
what went wrong and the lessons that need learning. That is why we | :46:55. | :46:58. | |
need to enquire as to how we improve the ethics and morals of | :46:58. | :47:01. | |
the press in this country and make sure they improve for the future. | :47:02. | :47:04. | |
That is what needs to be done and what this Government is doing and | :47:04. | :47:11. | |
we don't have to take lectures from him about it. Nicky Morgan. Thank | :47:11. | :47:17. | |
you. For the year 9 pupils at a high-school and my constituency, | :47:17. | :47:22. | |
they have joined hundreds of other pupils to the send my sister to | :47:22. | :47:25. | |
school campaign and will the Prime Minister and support to the scores | :47:25. | :47:29. | |
and I should not remind people that good education here or overseas | :47:29. | :47:34. | |
transforms children's lives and their life chances. I am delighted | :47:34. | :47:38. | |
to welcome the campaign that she mentions and her personal support. | :47:38. | :47:43. | |
The fact is that across the world there are 39 million curls out of | :47:43. | :47:47. | |
school and even if they are in school, the gender gaps we see are | :47:47. | :47:52. | |
appalling and in the UK, with the aid budget, we are securing | :47:52. | :47:57. | |
schooling for 11 million children by 2015, that is more in the UK but | :47:57. | :48:02. | |
we can do this at 2.5% of the cost. This is a good investment for | :48:02. | :48:08. | |
British taxpayers to make sure we reduce inequality in the world. | :48:08. | :48:11. | |
the Prime Minister explain whether he thinks the cost of his NHS | :48:11. | :48:15. | |
reforms, set to rise even further with the revelation that a new | :48:15. | :48:18. | |
super quango in the NHS will be created, might be partly | :48:18. | :48:21. | |
responsible for the funding squeeze affecting health services in | :48:21. | :48:27. | |
Harrow? It puts at risk services at the popular Alexandria Avenue | :48:27. | :48:32. | |
clinic in my constituency. What we have seen since this Government has | :48:32. | :48:36. | |
taken office is more than 2000 doctors and 4000 fewer managers. | :48:36. | :48:40. | |
And we're cutting bureaucracy by one-third. They don't like to hear | :48:40. | :48:45. | |
it, but if we follow their plans and cut in a chest and -- spending, | :48:45. | :48:49. | |
we would see the numbers of doctors and nurses coming down and just | :48:49. | :48:53. | |
this morning we have seen the numbers of diagnostic tests going | :48:53. | :49:00. | |
up. Because of the investment going in under this Government. The Prime | :49:00. | :49:04. | |
Minister will be aware of the news this morning that Portugal's debt | :49:04. | :49:07. | |
has been downgraded. Does he agree that it is a warning to every | :49:07. | :49:12. | |
member of this house that you cannot put off difficult decisions | :49:12. | :49:19. | |
and the only plan B is bankruptcy? My friend is right, Plan B stands | :49:19. | :49:22. | |
for bankruptcy. We can see what happens when governments do not get | :49:23. | :49:27. | |
a grip of their debt and deficit. That is what this Government does | :49:27. | :49:32. | |
and the party opposite have learnt nothing. Does the Prime Minister | :49:32. | :49:35. | |
agree with me that the maximum sentence for the offence of | :49:35. | :49:40. | |
dangerous driving does not properly reflect the potential harm caused | :49:40. | :49:45. | |
to victims? Sometimes these victims are left paralysed and brain damage. | :49:46. | :49:49. | |
Will the Prime Minister's support me and my front bench in increasing | :49:49. | :49:54. | |
the maximum sentence took seven years? I know that the Honourable | :49:54. | :49:57. | |
Gentleman speaks with personal knowledge about this, not just | :49:57. | :50:00. | |
because of his constituency case that he wrote to me about but | :50:00. | :50:04. | |
because of his work as a barrister before coming to this place. I | :50:04. | :50:14. | |
:50:14. | :50:16. | ||
brought to me, someone was really damaged permanently for life and | :50:16. | :50:19. | |
the next one sentence is two years. We are looking at this issue and we | :50:19. | :50:27. | |
hope to make progress. To even more us. What the Prime Minister agree | :50:27. | :50:35. | |
that the event should be allowed from the opposition of �10 billion | :50:35. | :50:41. | |
isn't just the fear not in the IMF and in the 1970s, the IMF bailed | :50:41. | :50:51. | |
out their government? I agree with what my friend said and it was | :50:51. | :50:55. | |
remarkable yesterday that the Labour Party put themselves in a | :50:55. | :50:59. | |
position of opposing our involvement in the IMF. Britain is | :50:59. | :51:01. | |
a serious global economy and we should take responsibility for | :51:02. | :51:09. | |
serious global issues, including through the IMF. David Simpson. | :51:09. | :51:13. | |
Does the Prime Minister agree that details of all the weapons and | :51:13. | :51:16. | |
explosives be commissioned in Northern Ireland should be made | :51:16. | :51:22. | |
public, as promised? And will he agree to have negotiations with the | :51:22. | :51:25. | |
Irish government to move forward to the Americans to see that it | :51:25. | :51:33. | |
happens? The Independent Commission did not provide us with an | :51:33. | :51:36. | |
inventory, they were an independent body and this was a decision for | :51:36. | :51:42. | |
them to make, difficult as that is. They stated that we would not want | :51:42. | :51:46. | |
to inadvertently discourage further decommissioning with groups that | :51:46. | :51:54. | |
are actively engaged. This is difficult and we're having to deal | :51:54. | :51:58. | |
in Northern Ireland with difficult things in order to bring conflict | :51:58. | :52:01. | |
to an end and keep conflict to an end and this is what the | :52:02. | :52:09. | |
commissioner's report did. On the issue of delaying inquiries, the | :52:09. | :52:13. | |
public have little confidence in the Metropolitan Police, were | :52:13. | :52:17. | |
investigations concerning News International are concerned. Colour | :52:17. | :52:22. | |
remind him of a question I asked in April, will he have a full judicial | :52:22. | :52:25. | |
inquiry that looks particularly at the link between News International | :52:25. | :52:30. | |
and the Metropolitan Police? Clearly this is a very important | :52:30. | :52:34. | |
issue and my friend is disgusted with the Commissioner of the | :52:34. | :52:39. | |
Metropolitan Police. -- has discussed it. Let me try to | :52:39. | :52:42. | |
reassure the house and the on and a gentleman about this because even | :52:42. | :52:47. | |
before you get to the point about independent and public inquiries, | :52:47. | :52:50. | |
what the public needs to know is that the police will go about their | :52:50. | :52:53. | |
job properly in terms of this investigation and they do need to | :52:53. | :52:58. | |
know that this is an investigation completely separate from the | :52:58. | :53:02. | |
previous investigation and as it stands today, it is one of the | :53:02. | :53:06. | |
largest police investigations going on anywhere in the country. Teresa | :53:06. | :53:11. | |
Pearce. Thank you. The victims of knife crime in London have | :53:11. | :53:15. | |
increased by 8% over the last three months. On the streets of London | :53:15. | :53:18. | |
have children carrying knives and other children afraid of the | :53:18. | :53:23. | |
journey to and from school. Last Friday, on a busy shopping parade, | :53:23. | :53:28. | |
a 16 year-old constituent of mine was stabbed to death. Two children | :53:28. | :53:31. | |
have been arrested in connection with this and what with the Prime | :53:31. | :53:36. | |
Minister do to ensure that the mayor of London gets a grip on this | :53:36. | :53:41. | |
problem and that was one of the election promises? The case that | :53:41. | :53:44. | |
she raises is a tragic one and there are still too many victims of | :53:44. | :53:48. | |
knife crime, particularly among young people, in our cities. What | :53:48. | :53:52. | |
we're doing is creating a new offence with a mandatory sentence | :53:52. | :53:55. | |
to send a clear message to those who carry knives. The offence would | :53:55. | :53:59. | |
apply to those with the knife who threaten and endanger others and a | :53:59. | :54:03. | |
public place. It will send a clear message to those who possess nice, | :54:03. | :54:09. | |
if you threaten anyone, you go to jail. What the Prime Minister agree | :54:09. | :54:13. | |
that those who pay back early their student loans are doing the right | :54:13. | :54:19. | |
thing and should be encouraged? If so, how is it consistent with the | :54:19. | :54:22. | |
government policy which is apparently want to discourage | :54:22. | :54:26. | |
people from paying back early and indeed penalising them for early | :54:26. | :54:31. | |
repayment? I would urge my friend to look carefully at the details of | :54:31. | :54:36. | |
what we propose. We want a progressive system were people who | :54:36. | :54:39. | |
earn more pay back more and that is why we have the system were nobody | :54:39. | :54:44. | |
pays anything until they earn �21,000 and you don't pay back in | :54:44. | :54:49. | |
full until �35,000. We are proposing that people who pay back | :54:49. | :54:53. | |
�3,000 a year, as they earn money, should not be discouraged because | :54:53. | :55:01. | |
that is the right thing to do. opposition the Prime Minister was | :55:01. | :55:08. | |
clear that... Last week, he said I fell back on the same explanation | :55:08. | :55:11. | |
is that he refused to accept when they were given to him by the | :55:11. | :55:19. | |
previous Prime Minister. What has changed? We have banned the Taliban, | :55:19. | :55:25. | |
we have taken action, and as my friend, the Lord Chancellor, will | :55:25. | :55:30. | |
history testify, it is endlessly frustrating that we are subject to | :55:30. | :55:33. | |
so many legal requirements but I'm afraid we have to be a government | :55:33. | :55:43. | |
:55:43. | :55:47. | ||
under the law. Order! Mr Robert Hall Farm... Given that the | :55:47. | :55:51. | |
Olympics and the Diamond Jubilee are next to, is the Prime Minister | :55:51. | :55:55. | |
aware that emigration Special Branch officers are concerned that | :55:55. | :55:59. | |
the common area of travel channel allows illegal migrants, Islamists | :55:59. | :56:03. | |
and terrorists, into the country without passports being checked. | :56:03. | :56:08. | |
Will he take steps to close this loophole immediately? By friend | :56:08. | :56:11. | |
makes an important point but I would say that passport free travel | :56:11. | :56:14. | |
between the UK and Crown dependencies and the Republic of | :56:14. | :56:18. | |
Ireland has been in place for many years and it offers economic and | :56:18. | :56:22. | |
social benefits. I except that these routes can be open to abuse | :56:22. | :56:26. | |
and we're determined to resolve this, the UK Border Agency is | :56:26. | :56:29. | |
working closely with Ireland and others to make sure this happens | :56:29. | :56:31. | |
what we want to try to do this without disadvantaging people who | :56:31. | :56:41. | |
:56:41. | :56:41. | ||
can take advantage of this common travel area up to now. | :56:41. | :56:44. | |
committee's secretary and the DWP secretary has said that British | :56:44. | :56:49. | |
employers should employ British workers. Will the Prime Minister | :56:49. | :56:59. | |
start with the DWP offshore or company in offering -- outsourcing | :56:59. | :57:05. | |
jobs to Bangalore? I understand the case she makes... Order! I want to | :57:05. | :57:11. | |
hear the answer! What we need to do is make sure that our welfare | :57:11. | :57:16. | |
reforms are encouraging those people who sit on welfare and could | :57:16. | :57:20. | |
work and make them go out to work. Under the party opposite, yes, | :57:20. | :57:24. | |
economic growth but 5 million working-age people living on | :57:24. | :57:31. | |
benefits. That isn't good enough and we will change that. What the | :57:31. | :57:40. | |
Prime Minister agree that centres in rural areas provide a valuable | :57:40. | :57:43. | |
service to their local communities and hundreds of my constituents | :57:43. | :57:49. | |
send this message to Derbyshire NHS as they threaten the closure of the | :57:49. | :57:54. | |
centre? I agree of my friend and we want to see maternity networks so | :57:54. | :57:58. | |
that mothers can make a choice about where they can give birth. | :57:58. | :58:02. | |
Whether that is in a community setting, midwife lead or in a | :58:02. | :58:06. | |
district general hospital, where they have all the paraphernalia of | :58:06. | :58:14. | |
consultants, and it should be a choice made by them. Is the Prime | :58:14. | :58:18. | |
Minister aware that when yesterday Bombardier had to announce | :58:18. | :58:22. | |
redundancies, including skilled engineers and signers, the company | :58:22. | :58:27. | |
made public for the first time that they had offered to establish a new | :58:27. | :58:31. | |
Academy in this country for the design and manufacture of cars for | :58:31. | :58:35. | |
the next generation of high-speed trains in this country and across | :58:35. | :58:40. | |
the world. More jobs and jobs with even higher skills. He won't have | :58:40. | :58:43. | |
had time to familiarise himself with the details but will he | :58:43. | :58:47. | |
undertake to look into this with care to give substance to the | :58:47. | :58:49. | |
commitment to give in my constituency to British | :58:49. | :58:54. | |
manufacturing? I will look very carefully at what the Honourable | :58:54. | :59:00. | |
Lady has said about this but let me just say this... I Want to See More | :59:00. | :59:04. | |
British jobs in manufacturing and as we are seeing across the country | :59:04. | :59:09. | |
but in case of Bombardier, the procurement process was designed | :59:10. | :59:16. | |
and emaciated by the Government of which she was apart. We are bound | :59:16. | :59:19. | |
by the criteria they set out and therefore we must continue with the | :59:19. | :59:23. | |
decision that has been made according to that. Separately, we | :59:23. | :59:27. | |
are setting out to ask the question, what more can we do within the | :59:27. | :59:31. | |
current rules to make sure that the boost manufacturing in the country? | :59:31. | :59:38. | |
And not have situations like this in the future. 12 days ago a young | :59:38. | :59:43. | |
constituent of mine was the victim of a vicious knife attack. This | :59:43. | :59:48. | |
last weekend, another 16 year-old man was also the victim of a knife | :59:48. | :59:53. | |
attack. Will my Right Honourable friend join with me in condemning | :59:53. | :59:57. | |
this upsurge in gang related violence and confirm that those | :59:57. | :00:04. | |
that carry knives will be facing a custodial sentence if apprehended? | :00:04. | :00:10. | |
As I have said, it is important to send a clear message about this and | :00:10. | :00:12. | |
we're doing that with the new offence that carries a mandatory | :00:12. | :00:16. | |
sentence and that is a single to anyone who contemplate carrying a | :00:16. | :00:22. | |
knife. We should be frank. Surely looking at this from a criminal | :00:22. | :00:26. | |
justice situation isn't the answer. We have to ask ourselves why so | :00:26. | :00:29. | |
many young people joined gangs and why aren't families and communities | :00:29. | :00:33. | |
doing more to keep them close and prevent the carrying of knives and | :00:33. | :00:42. | |
that is something that runs across government. It isn't the case of | :00:42. | :00:47. | |
the Government follows the normal process in relation to the takeover | :00:47. | :00:51. | |
of BSkyB. Why does he believe the assurances that News Corporation | :00:52. | :00:55. | |
executives give are any more credible than the ones they give | :00:55. | :01:01. | |
over phone hacking? We have followed the correct processes and | :01:01. | :01:05. | |
indeed, if you do not know the correct process, you will be | :01:05. | :01:07. | |
judicially reviewed and all the decisions you would like to make | :01:07. | :01:17. | |
:01:17. | :01:20. | ||
for a political point of view it will be struck down in the courts. | :01:20. | :01:25. | |
Order! If the house can overcome its collective mirth, we will hear | :01:26. | :01:35. | |
Mr Ian Miss Wales. I visited a school in my constituency which is | :01:35. | :01:39. | |
the 17th most deprived primary- school in the country. Will the | :01:39. | :01:42. | |
Prime Minister join me in congratulating the school and the | :01:42. | :01:46. | |
community in their work to convert an area of demolished houses into a | :01:46. | :01:50. | |
playing field and will he ensure the Government improves its pupil | :01:50. | :01:59. | |
premium policy to support this excellent work? I believe the | :01:59. | :02:06. | |
people premium which will pump billions into the most deprived | :02:06. | :02:08. | |
children in deprived parts of the country will make a huge difference | :02:08. | :02:18. | |
:02:18. | :02:30. | ||
That was the penultimate Prime Minister's Questions. That is the | :02:30. | :02:40. | |
:02:40. | :02:43. | ||
second last! Yes! Phone hacking dominated the exchanges. We have | :02:43. | :02:46. | |
agreement that there should be an inquiry but exactly when and with | :02:46. | :02:52. | |
the terms of reference, obviously there are no concrete piece of news | :02:52. | :02:56. | |
but there is disagreement on whether Mr Murdoch's attempt to buy | :02:56. | :03:00. | |
60% of BSkyB that he does not own should be referred to the | :03:00. | :03:08. | |
Competition Commission for at least delayed. Why that was going on in | :03:08. | :03:18. | |
:03:18. | :03:19. | ||
Parliament, the outside world is We learned in the last half hour | :03:20. | :03:24. | |
that Halifax, Virgin Holidays, Lloyds Bank and Vauxhall Motors had | :03:24. | :03:31. | |
also withdrawn. There is a sense of an avalanche. There is talk of | :03:31. | :03:35. | |
Renault, cabarets, at NatWest, Coca-Cola, Body Shop pulls up | :03:35. | :03:44. | |
various others may not be advertising. That think can hurt. | :03:44. | :03:54. | |
:03:54. | :03:56. | ||
We remember what happened to The Sun paper macro. Boycotts can hit | :03:56. | :04:03. | |
you. Rupert Murdoch likes big, thick bottom lines. One of the new | :04:03. | :04:08. | |
things we have been doing is monitoring the tweets that come in. | :04:08. | :04:12. | |
In the Westminster village, those people who make their business | :04:13. | :04:16. | |
punting on these issues, they thought that Ed Miliband scored a | :04:16. | :04:23. | |
clear win. Wiped the floor with David Cameron. These up all people | :04:23. | :04:30. | |
who work in the business. What about you? This one from Peter in | :04:30. | :04:35. | |
Oxfordshire. David Cameron failed to address the public perception of | :04:35. | :04:39. | |
the close link between News International and the Conservative | :04:39. | :04:45. | |
Party. It seems Ed Miliband judges people before they are found guilty, | :04:45. | :04:51. | |
says Maureen Ryan. Chris from Sheffield says what a disgusting | :04:51. | :04:57. | |
attitude by members of the opposition towards the Prime | :04:57. | :05:01. | |
Minister. He was being heckled constantly by Labour backbenchers. | :05:01. | :05:06. | |
Another one, what a waste! What we care about is trying to make a | :05:06. | :05:12. | |
static way to go even further week after week. Alastair Campbell, | :05:12. | :05:15. | |
adviser to David Cameron and the Prime Minister, and they say that | :05:15. | :05:20. | |
because he wrote a new block. I have heard to say before that Mr | :05:20. | :05:24. | |
Cameron would stand up and then as he would agree to the principle of | :05:24. | :05:30. | |
a broad-based inquiry and that is what he did. I am glad he did it. | :05:30. | :05:34. | |
Ed Miliband Havel did extremely well. David Cameron did the right | :05:34. | :05:43. | |
thing. -- Ed Miliband handled it extremely well. I think now of this | :05:43. | :05:48. | |
inquiry has to be wide ranging. It cannot just be about the News of | :05:48. | :05:52. | |
the World. It is about links with police and private investigators. | :05:52. | :05:58. | |
It has to lead to a settlement between politics and the media. A | :05:58. | :06:03. | |
lot of politicians will start to think that maybe Selfridge it -- | :06:03. | :06:09. | |
self regulation is best. The Prime Minister a's line is that we have | :06:09. | :06:16. | |
to follow to process. The Culture Secretary does not meet without | :06:16. | :06:21. | |
half a dozen lawyers in the same room so he is being seen to act to | :06:21. | :06:24. | |
the letter of the law. Public opinion and the public mood is | :06:24. | :06:32. | |
another thing. Can apposition be sustained? I thought the first part | :06:33. | :06:37. | |
was Parliament at its best was that it was the right tone was a bit | :06:37. | :06:47. | |
:06:47. | :06:51. | ||
came a par with the BSkyB quote. -- -- beat it where it came apart was | :06:51. | :07:00. | |
with the BSkyB quote. What is very likely to happen is that somebody | :07:00. | :07:06. | |
will resurrect all bring up the fit and proper test. There is a | :07:06. | :07:10. | |
requirement, said Labour media takeovers, that the person taking | :07:10. | :07:18. | |
over has to meet a fit and proper test. The default option is Ofcom. | :07:18. | :07:23. | |
That is the regulatory body for the media. It looks rather weak. I | :07:23. | :07:28. | |
think Mr Cameron will go back to No. 10 and say, find me a way through | :07:28. | :07:34. | |
all of this. Why can it not be referred to the Competition | :07:34. | :07:43. | |
Commission? New information, I have changed my mind. It is more fit and | :07:43. | :07:49. | |
proper. This whole picture has changed completely. We do not know, | :07:49. | :07:54. | |
we will not know for months, quite how far up the Murdoch organisation | :07:54. | :08:00. | |
the blame for these problems goes. That is the key issue. If it goes | :08:00. | :08:07. | |
right to senior level... You do not do �750,000 settlements with Gordon | :08:07. | :08:16. | |
Taylor without it going very high up. It will open the doors to much | :08:16. | :08:19. | |
more. If you came back of a plane last night and were presented with | :08:19. | :08:26. | |
a problem like this, you can announce two inquiries - one on the | :08:26. | :08:31. | |
police and one on the issue of wider media regulation. He had no | :08:31. | :08:36. | |
alternative about that. So many people will say, if we touch the | :08:36. | :08:42. | |
BSkyB issue, we have to get it right. We cannot get it wrong. The | :08:42. | :08:49. | |
moment something goes wrong with it, the consequences could be huge. | :08:49. | :08:55. | |
supplied to Ben Bradshaw was rather tetchy. We will have to go and find | :08:55. | :09:00. | |
out what is the wiggle room the Government have. The question by | :09:00. | :09:05. | |
Ben Bradshaw was quite interesting. He knows a bit about the background | :09:05. | :09:13. | |
to this. I think David is right. I think David Cameron looked very | :09:13. | :09:18. | |
uncomfortable. The public, whether he likes it or not, they are | :09:18. | :09:24. | |
linking the two issues. It is big enough to have a public inquiry | :09:24. | :09:29. | |
into the media but to have a public inquiry into the police and the | :09:29. | :09:33. | |
media would be unprecedented and potentially devastating for a lot | :09:33. | :09:37. | |
of people. Labour members of the Metropolitan Police have authority | :09:37. | :09:46. | |
have called upon Paul Stephenson to refer the bourse voluntary -- be | :09:46. | :09:51. | |
forced voluntary to the Independent Police Complaints Commission. | :09:51. | :09:57. | |
are dragging people out of bed at midnight and all the rest of it. | :09:57. | :10:07. | |
:10:07. | :10:09. | ||
Compare the lack of zeal on this! You, I understand, are currently | :10:09. | :10:13. | |
Labour's largest individual donor. Why it is Ed Miliband not | :10:13. | :10:19. | |
attracting more financial support? We are the third most interesting | :10:19. | :10:25. | |
party at the moment. In Scotland we are the 4th most interesting party | :10:25. | :10:29. | |
or they may be the Lib Dems do not count. It you have got to be head | :10:29. | :10:34. | |
of the Tories and the Lib Dems. We're the third most interesting | :10:34. | :10:38. | |
party. The Tories are the Government. Business has moved back | :10:38. | :10:43. | |
a fair amount and Ed is finding it hard to attract that sort of | :10:43. | :10:49. | |
support. That is inevitable at this stage of the parliament. David will | :10:49. | :10:53. | |
know this from when he was trying to raise money through his campaign, | :10:53. | :10:58. | |
money does tend to go a bit towards where they think the winners Mike | :10:58. | :11:05. | |
bees. It is about -- might be. It will have done him and the PLP a | :11:05. | :11:14. | |
lot of beard. I was surprised my donation was the largest last month. | :11:14. | :11:20. | |
Next month it will be the guy who paid for the dedication of my book | :11:20. | :11:30. | |
:11:30. | :11:31. | ||
was up is that this book here? said, during the leadership | :11:31. | :11:35. | |
campaign, I think Ed Miliband is a really nice guy. The need to | :11:35. | :11:39. | |
differentiate between making the party feel ABOUT losing a making | :11:39. | :11:45. | |
the party face up to what it needs to get into shape again. He is yet | :11:45. | :11:51. | |
to do that, hasn't he? If he has started the process. He has the | :11:51. | :11:57. | |
space now. I think a lot of us, and a lot of our people, have found it | :11:57. | :12:02. | |
hard to adapt to the fact the are no longer in government. It cannot | :12:02. | :12:09. | |
have opened debates. If somebody says something... We are having | :12:09. | :12:14. | |
them, why can't you? I think the Labour Party can have a much more | :12:14. | :12:20. | |
lively and much more robust debate about past, present and future. Ed | :12:21. | :12:26. | |
is getting a very bad press most of the time. He should get a | :12:26. | :12:32. | |
reasonable press after today. Ultimately, politics is about | :12:32. | :12:37. | |
making big strategic choices. I do not think we up their lead in terms | :12:37. | :12:43. | |
of being clear about the strategy we want to pursue. -- we are bare. | :12:43. | :12:49. | |
Up he said he would be the Iain Duncan-Smith of the Labour Party. | :12:49. | :12:56. | |
can remember, that is ridiculous, it cannot be as bad as that. In the | :12:56. | :13:01. | |
latest poll in the Independent on Sunday, it says that Ed Miliband is | :13:01. | :13:06. | |
more unpopular than Iain Duncan- Smith in the same stage of his | :13:06. | :13:11. | |
leadership. The mood around him has been very negative. He needs to | :13:11. | :13:16. | |
keep going. There has to be a big debate. There is no problem with | :13:16. | :13:21. | |
having an open debate and differences of opinion about why we | :13:21. | :13:27. | |
lost and the economic policies pursued, we should have that debate. | :13:27. | :13:33. | |
Ed does have the manner. He has a nice touch with people. He is | :13:33. | :13:38. | |
developing in Parliament. The important thing is about policy. We | :13:38. | :13:41. | |
can afford to have a much more robust debate the we're having at | :13:42. | :13:51. | |
:13:52. | :13:52. | ||
the moment. Some in your party will not one that debate. There is no | :13:52. | :13:57. | |
agreement over the past. Some people in the party, Ed Balls among | :13:57. | :14:02. | |
others, think a debate that looks to the past is distracting. The | :14:02. | :14:08. | |
next election should be fought on future issues. You should not enter | :14:08. | :14:18. | |
:14:18. | :14:19. | ||
an argument about who did what rank in the last Parliament, at the last | :14:19. | :14:22. | |
government. That is why we should all recognise that nobody has | :14:22. | :14:28. | |
anything to fear. I think it would do the Labour Party a lot of good. | :14:29. | :14:32. | |
Every time I read about, if somebody says something slightly | :14:32. | :14:38. | |
different to what Ed has said, there is a plot going on. There is | :14:38. | :14:43. | |
no plot that I know off. It is a desire to learn lessons about why | :14:43. | :14:48. | |
we lost and what we did when we were winning elections. That is | :14:48. | :14:54. | |
really important. Just a comment on the poll thing. Whoever won the | :14:54. | :14:59. | |
leadership election, with the in a difficult position. That is the | :14:59. | :15:04. | |
biggest story. All of them would be in trouble. Unless you have this | :15:04. | :15:09. | |
debate, that is all we will talk about. The Tory high command view | :15:09. | :15:13. | |
at the moment where they have not got a lot to cheer about because | :15:13. | :15:18. | |
they're in the worst part of the political and economic cycle... Of | :15:18. | :15:24. | |
the second worst part. These draw they grasp is that we're up against | :15:24. | :15:31. | |
Ed Miliband, they say. Isn't that dangerously complacent? It is good | :15:31. | :15:36. | |
for rattling the other side. When Iain Duncan Smith was leader we | :15:36. | :15:40. | |
used to have a weekly meeting, sitting down. We used to work out | :15:40. | :15:46. | |
what his drinks were, what his weaknesses were. -- his strengths. | :15:46. | :15:56. | |
:15:56. | :16:09. | ||
You should never underestimate your Thank you for being with us. And | :16:09. | :16:13. | |
things aren't moving with the News of the World story and we learnt | :16:13. | :16:19. | |
that the court has also suspended its dealings with News of the World | :16:19. | :16:22. | |
and an investigation is taking place. It's often thought the | :16:22. | :16:25. | |
French dress better than us, cook better food than us and produce | :16:25. | :16:30. | |
better wine. And, of course, they strike better than us. According to | :16:30. | :16:33. | |
the French entrepreneur PY Gerbeau, they take to the streets on an | :16:33. | :16:38. | |
almost daily basis. Here's his soapbox on why we should not be | :16:38. | :16:48. | |
:16:48. | :16:57. | ||
trying to emulate our friends across the Channel. I left my | :16:57. | :17:02. | |
beloved France 11 years ago to work and live in the UK, mainly to avoid | :17:02. | :17:06. | |
the end this French striking culture. There is a strike almost | :17:06. | :17:11. | |
every day which not only paralyses the country but also stops any | :17:11. | :17:16. | |
entrepreneurs of being able to run any business. The French population | :17:16. | :17:21. | |
is constantly taken hostage by trade unions that basically to not | :17:21. | :17:28. | |
represent anybody in France. This is a recipe for disaster. The UK | :17:28. | :17:33. | |
has always been synonymous with the fantastic business model were an | :17:33. | :17:36. | |
entrepreneur can succeed and were the trade unions are no safeguard | :17:36. | :17:41. | |
but can be supportive, unlike in France, where they are entirely | :17:41. | :17:47. | |
destructive. There is a big pot. With Brussels and its constant | :17:47. | :17:52. | |
threat of bringing more red tape to the showers and the slow, dangerous | :17:52. | :17:55. | |
drift towards the field French economic system, we have a massive | :17:55. | :18:00. | |
reason to be worried. Last week saw much protest which could only be | :18:00. | :18:04. | |
the tip of the iceberg with cuts coming in and as a businessman I | :18:04. | :18:09. | |
question what impact it will have on UK plc because all of us should | :18:09. | :18:13. | |
focus on three things - getting ourselves out of recession, making | :18:13. | :18:16. | |
sure we create and protect jobs and make sure the country gets back on | :18:17. | :18:26. | |
its front foot. The UK population is desperate for good news, to be | :18:26. | :18:31. | |
able to face the tough economy. But the reality of our day-to-day life | :18:31. | :18:35. | |
is transport chaos, massive strikes, the Olympics, which should have | :18:36. | :18:40. | |
been the greatest news but it's a project four times over budget and | :18:40. | :18:44. | |
the population isn't able to buy tickets. That isn't a recipe to | :18:44. | :18:54. | |
:18:54. | :18:56. | ||
motivate and inspire people. We're joined now by PY Gerbeau. We get | :18:56. | :19:03. | |
people to crunch numbers, you do not deserve your reputation. You | :19:03. | :19:07. | |
are actually the European average. We do it very noisily and disturb | :19:07. | :19:14. | |
everybody. They bring sheep and tractors and stop everything. | :19:14. | :19:18. | |
hardly take to the streets. And with so many cuts and so much pain, | :19:18. | :19:22. | |
is it not right and proper in a democracy that people can come out? | :19:22. | :19:28. | |
A exactly, I am not against trade unions. In France they're totally | :19:28. | :19:31. | |
disruptive and I am totally for the liberty of protesting. My problem | :19:31. | :19:38. | |
is when they take people hostage, people cannot go to work. | :19:38. | :19:42. | |
convenient strike is pointless in many people's eyes? Nobody will | :19:42. | :19:50. | |
notice! Were we to like us to go on strike?! We can go on strike we | :19:51. | :19:54. | |
should not have the opportunity to disturb people's lives and take | :19:54. | :19:58. | |
them hostage. That is what my problem is and that is what the | :19:58. | :20:03. | |
entrepreneurial spirit has disappeared and why my colleagues | :20:03. | :20:07. | |
are economic refugees. Alastair Campbell, you were talking the Big | :20:07. | :20:13. | |
Top, is that where we should be going? Convenient strikes? I have | :20:13. | :20:17. | |
been at a few strikes in France and their like social occasions, people | :20:17. | :20:22. | |
bring their children and food and wine and they sit around. They do | :20:22. | :20:27. | |
have a very different attitude. Partly it is about the media, our | :20:27. | :20:29. | |
media is very conditioned to covering strikes from a very | :20:29. | :20:34. | |
negative perspective. Striking is always bad. In France, a lot of | :20:34. | :20:39. | |
people think they are part of the industrial culture. There was more | :20:39. | :20:49. | |
public support. I agree with Alastair. Let David Davies come in | :20:49. | :20:54. | |
on this... I think they chewed strikers to cure advice, until | :20:54. | :21:02. | |
three in the morning. Who noticed? On the issue of striking, it is an | :21:03. | :21:07. | |
important point, is it right, morally, for the public sector to | :21:07. | :21:12. | |
be striking when actually in many areas they are better off than in | :21:12. | :21:17. | |
the private sector? The private sector perhaps complaint that it | :21:17. | :21:21. | |
did it do? To be serious, they should be tougher rules for public | :21:21. | :21:26. | |
sector strikes. If you are in the private sector and go on strike, | :21:26. | :21:30. | |
there is a competitor who will look after your customers and the public | :21:30. | :21:33. | |
sector there is a monopoly, you cannot get to work, you cannot do a | :21:33. | :21:40. | |
job. Whatever that might be. In those circumstances, we have had | :21:40. | :21:43. | |
debate about requiring the majority of the workforce and not just the | :21:43. | :21:50. | |
electorate. Vince Cable is playing footsie with this notion. Should we | :21:50. | :21:57. | |
look at the terms and conditions of the strikes? He is playing footsie, | :21:57. | :22:03. | |
and the balance is right. Thatcher pushed this in a very certain | :22:03. | :22:06. | |
direction and it came back a little bit but this whole idea that the | :22:06. | :22:10. | |
public sector leader these gilded lives with their so-called gold- | :22:10. | :22:14. | |
plated pensions, a teacher who works for several decades doing a | :22:14. | :22:18. | |
bloody good job, they don't end up on these massive pensions that | :22:18. | :22:25. | |
people talk about. They will have a half a million pound pension pot! | :22:25. | :22:29. | |
They will have a decent pension that will retire them over their | :22:29. | :22:34. | |
old age. Better than most people, ordinary workers, will know. That | :22:34. | :22:38. | |
is because of what has happened to the pensions industry but I still | :22:38. | :22:42. | |
think that playing this as a game between the private sector being | :22:42. | :22:47. | |
terribly poor and the public sector... We are running at a time, | :22:47. | :22:51. | |
very quickly, looking at this, is there room for negotiation or are | :22:51. | :22:54. | |
strikes inevitable over the next few months? There should be room | :22:54. | :22:58. | |
for negotiation and advanced in his public support but this is changing. | :22:58. | :23:02. | |
There is a lobby group of traditional workers who are fed up | :23:02. | :23:08. | |
with being taking -- taken hostage. There is a place for protesting. | :23:09. | :23:11. | |
France they always say they want change but when it comes to it, | :23:11. | :23:17. | |
they don't. We are special that we! Thank you very much for being with | :23:17. | :23:22. | |
us. If you ask politicos what the most memorable debates in | :23:22. | :23:24. | |
Parliament have been recently, they'd probably say the ones about | :23:24. | :23:27. | |
wild animals in circuses and voting rights for prisoners. They might | :23:27. | :23:30. | |
never have happened if it hadn't been for the relatively new | :23:30. | :23:36. | |
Backbench Business Committee. You might never have heard of it but | :23:36. | :23:38. | |
it's becoming an increasingly powerful way for backbenchers to | :23:38. | :23:45. | |
get stuff off their chests. Yesterday Adam had a bit of a nose | :23:45. | :23:55. | |
:23:55. | :24:01. | ||
around. It is Tuesday at 1pm and MPs are flocking to the regular | :24:01. | :24:05. | |
meeting of the backbench business committee. They will compete in a | :24:05. | :24:10. | |
Dragon's Den style format for a slot to have a debate on the topic | :24:10. | :24:14. | |
of their choice. If they do secure that, it can lead to fireworks... | :24:15. | :24:21. | |
Can be to prisoners should not have the vote. Rapists, drug dealers, | :24:21. | :24:28. | |
frankly it does not matter what the crime is. Given its seriousness. | :24:28. | :24:33. | |
Many of these animals have been so domesticated over so many years, to | :24:33. | :24:41. | |
wrench them out of the life there used to what be more cruel... | :24:41. | :24:45. | |
community was created as part of a package of reforms to plump up the | :24:45. | :24:49. | |
role of backbench MPs. It has just celebrated its first birthday. | :24:49. | :24:52. | |
are to meet congratulate the backbench committee over the last | :24:52. | :24:57. | |
year. It has made a difference in Parliament and I think it is quite | :24:57. | :25:01. | |
right that actually a House of Commons can choose to debate the | :25:01. | :25:04. | |
subject of its choosing on a motion of its choosing at a time of his | :25:04. | :25:08. | |
choosing. That is right and it has discussed a range of issues from | :25:08. | :25:14. | |
the very mundane to the quite obscure. It has been a year of | :25:14. | :25:17. | |
bread and circuses! The backbench business committee is responsible | :25:17. | :25:21. | |
for scheduling debates on 35 days of the year and they would love | :25:22. | :25:25. | |
more. But that would require the Government to seriously relax its | :25:25. | :25:31. | |
grip on the Commons timetable. We can speak now to the chair of the | :25:31. | :25:36. | |
Backbench Business Committee, the Labour MP Natascha Engel. Welcome | :25:36. | :25:40. | |
to the Daily Politics. Are you the most popular woman in Parliament?! | :25:40. | :25:45. | |
I don't think so. It depends on who you talk to. Not with the | :25:45. | :25:52. | |
Government. Backbench MPs are always eager to get their | :25:52. | :25:57. | |
particular hobby-horse aired and they must come to you? Yes, and I | :25:57. | :25:59. | |
think that has been the one innovation that we have introduced | :25:59. | :26:04. | |
that has been successful. We are guided by what backbenchers bring | :26:04. | :26:09. | |
to us rather than a community of it people just making up the bits as | :26:09. | :26:15. | |
we go along. What criteria do you use? Topicality is very important. | :26:15. | :26:20. | |
But we do look at making sure that we do not choose debates that are | :26:20. | :26:22. | |
merely in opposition to the Government, we want to hold the | :26:22. | :26:25. | |
Government to account and there is a subtle difference but it is | :26:25. | :26:29. | |
important. We want cross-party support for debates, we don't just | :26:29. | :26:36. | |
want... We have had this on everything. It isn't an extra | :26:36. | :26:40. | |
vehicle for the opposition? It is for things that Parliament wants to | :26:40. | :26:44. | |
discuss? Absolutely right. Which the executive might not want to | :26:44. | :26:48. | |
discuss? If we look at the phone hacking scandal, for example, if | :26:49. | :26:52. | |
the speaker had not wanted any urgent debate today, that is the | :26:52. | :26:55. | |
sort of thing that the Government may not bring to the floor of the | :26:55. | :26:59. | |
house and we now have a way of bringing a foreword by coming to | :26:59. | :27:04. | |
the backbench committee. You have a Dragon's Den star performers. You | :27:04. | :27:08. | |
have appeared in front of this? What did you have to do? Did you | :27:08. | :27:12. | |
bring any invention? I had to bring Jack Straw! That is a little | :27:12. | :27:18. | |
invention! And I made my case. Why does this matter? It was prisoners | :27:18. | :27:23. | |
votes. Why did this matter? The House disagreed with the government | :27:23. | :27:27. | |
line and so we wanted to make that point. And I think a change the | :27:28. | :27:31. | |
Government's position. We got that you get, we had a huge debate with | :27:31. | :27:35. | |
the huge turnout and it was a great victory on one side and the | :27:35. | :27:40. | |
government had to change its position. Do the party whips try to | :27:40. | :27:48. | |
influence you? Singing, I don't think that is a good idea. They are | :27:48. | :27:53. | |
the wrong party whips! They don't try to influence me and they don't | :27:53. | :27:58. | |
talk to me that often. Something the Labour whips may not like | :27:58. | :28:03. | |
discussed? It has not worked out like that. What happens is that it | :28:03. | :28:07. | |
really is the backbenchers. Sometimes there is a sense that | :28:07. | :28:09. | |
backbenchers have been influenced a little bit by the party whips but | :28:09. | :28:15. | |
we can see through that quickly. So, no, it isn't like that. What is the | :28:15. | :28:20. | |
next did it? We have had all our time taken away and that is a | :28:20. | :28:23. | |
problem, it is time allocated by government. Back to work in the | :28:23. | :28:27. | |
autumn? Absolutely. Thank you for coming in and we will keep an eye | :28:27. | :28:34. | |
on that. And the answer to our Guess the Year competition was 1985. | :28:34. | :28:42. | |
Guess what? I think it was! We will check... We will not pick any | :28:42. | :28:46. |