06/07/2011 Daily Politics


06/07/2011

Andrew Neil and Anita Anand host live coverage of Prime Minister's Questions and political stories, including more damaging allegations over phone hacking at the News of the World.


Similar Content

Browse content similar to 06/07/2011. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

Good morning, this is the Daily Politics. Tabloid journalism in the

:00:22.:00:27.

dock. More damaging allegations over phone hacking at News of the

:00:28.:00:31.

World. Claims that its former editor, Andy Coulson, once David

:00:31.:00:33.

Cameron's right-hand man, authorised payments to police

:00:33.:00:38.

officers. Where will it all end? MPs debate the whole affair this

:00:38.:00:44.

afternoon. We'll have the latest. Who wants to take on David Cameron

:00:44.:00:48.

at PMQs? Last week it was The Speaker. This week, will Ed make

:00:48.:00:54.

more of a mark? Join us for all the live action at midday. We celebrate

:00:55.:00:57.

the achievements of the House of Commons Backbench Business

:00:57.:01:02.

Committee. It is not as boring as it sounds. In fact, quite the

:01:02.:01:12.

opposite. And what do the French do best? Strike of course. PY Gerbeau

:01:12.:01:22.
:01:22.:01:23.

tells us why we should not be Yes, all that and more coming up in

:01:23.:01:32.

the next 90 minutes of TV wizardry at its best. And with us for the

:01:32.:01:35.

duration, we have the Voldermort and Dumbledore of political thought.

:01:35.:01:43.

I leave it to you to decide which is which. Yes, with us today is

:01:43.:01:45.

Tony Blair's former Director of Communications, Alistair Campbell,

:01:45.:01:51.

and the former Shadow Home Secretary, David Davis. Now first

:01:51.:01:55.

let's turn our attention to a story that caught our eye on page six of

:01:55.:02:05.
:02:05.:02:11.

It may be a good day to very bad news. Because, this afternoon, the

:02:11.:02:14.

House of Commons is to hold an emergency debate about the News of

:02:14.:02:17.

the World phone hacking controversy - a story we covered in depth

:02:17.:02:25.

yesterday. New allegations have emerged overnight and this morning.

:02:25.:02:32.

Anita has more. The pressure is piling up on Rupert Murdoch's News

:02:32.:02:38.

International. We already know of allegations that Milly Dowler's

:02:38.:02:41.

phone was hacked and now it has been alleged the parents of the

:02:41.:02:44.

murdered Soham girls, Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman, may have also

:02:44.:02:50.

had their phones intercepted. It has also been revealed that at

:02:50.:02:53.

least one family of one of the 7/7 bombing victims has been contacted

:02:53.:03:03.

by the police and told their phone may have been hacked. Another

:03:03.:03:07.

parent has said he was contacted. But that's not all, News

:03:07.:03:10.

International have now confirmed that they have handed emails over

:03:10.:03:12.

to an investigation which allegedly shows former News of the World

:03:13.:03:17.

Editor, Andy Coulson, authorised payments to the police. This brings

:03:17.:03:20.

the saga right to the door of David Cameron as Mr Coulson was

:03:20.:03:22.

previously the Prime Minister's Director of Communications before

:03:22.:03:27.

he resigned. The allegations also heap pressure on Rebekah Brooks,

:03:27.:03:30.

now a senior executive at News International, who was Editor of

:03:30.:03:32.

News of the World when the voicemails of Milly Dowler were

:03:32.:03:39.

allegedly intercepted. But it is not just News International

:03:39.:03:44.

newspapers who are making the headlines. Along with the Sun, the

:03:44.:03:47.

Daily Mirror has been charged with contempt of court over stories

:03:47.:03:54.

published following the murder of Jo Yeates. Little wonder perhaps

:03:54.:03:57.

that a recent MORI poll on public trust found that only 19% of people

:03:57.:04:07.
:04:07.:04:15.

They trust presenters a bit more. We're joined now by the former

:04:15.:04:18.

Chairman of the Conservative Party, Norman Fowler, who has been calling

:04:18.:04:23.

for an urgent independent inquiry into how the media operates. You'd

:04:23.:04:28.

do not, at the moment, look as if you're going to get your way, am I

:04:28.:04:36.

right? I think you are probably wrong. I have been doing this for

:04:36.:04:41.

six months. Bit by bit the Government has been edging towards

:04:41.:04:46.

it. Yesterday, a minister said in the House of Lords they were not

:04:46.:04:52.

actually going to rule it out. I think we will get it. I do not

:04:52.:04:56.

understand why the Government does not do it. They have said they have

:04:56.:05:05.

to wait for the police inquiry. Are they right to do that? Yes. You can

:05:05.:05:12.

announce it now that after the police inquiries are ended and the

:05:12.:05:18.

court cases have come to an end, then you can do that. It should go

:05:18.:05:24.

much wider than News of the World and phone hacking. We have

:05:24.:05:30.

discussed in the use of private investigations, the links between

:05:30.:05:35.

police and private investigators have - it is criminality at

:05:35.:05:41.

virtually every level of newspapers. Norman has been pushing on this for

:05:41.:05:46.

some time. The press has been in denial. If David Cameron has any

:05:46.:05:51.

sense, he will announce a wide- ranging inquiry to take place as

:05:51.:05:59.

soon as it is practical. Who could do it? It is difficult to think of

:05:59.:06:05.

anyone above you, or below. Personally I think it has almost

:06:05.:06:10.

got to a point where you need a judicial inquiry. You need the

:06:10.:06:16.

ability of the Chairman of the inquiry to subpoena people, bring

:06:16.:06:22.

them in and put them under oath. the media, we think judges are

:06:22.:06:30.

hostile to the press. You sometimes think that. If it has got to carry

:06:30.:06:35.

public support, then I think if you put a judge in charge of it, and

:06:35.:06:42.

other people who are expert in this area, then I think you get the best

:06:42.:06:49.

possible service. It has to have investigative capabilities. It will

:06:49.:06:59.
:06:59.:07:00.

not happen soon. We did announce an inquiry. Here you have at least one

:07:00.:07:05.

criminal event, if it is true, paying policeman is a criminal

:07:05.:07:11.

offence. Most of this hacking is a criminal offence. The three of you

:07:12.:07:19.

want an inquiry. How much of a mistake was it for David Cameron to

:07:19.:07:24.

hire and Nicholson as spin-doctor in opposition and then make him

:07:24.:07:34.

head of communications? -- Andy Coulson. He knew he had been

:07:34.:07:38.

involved and it appeared he did the honourable thing and step down.

:07:38.:07:46.

knew there was a hacking investigation. I do not think he

:07:46.:07:52.

could walk away at that point. he established eyeball to or --

:07:52.:07:56.

eyeball to eyeball that nothing would emerged that was potentially

:07:56.:08:06.
:08:06.:08:06.

embarrassing, I can never be clear that that happened. We do know that

:08:06.:08:10.

step-by-step it has become more serious. It was not on the scale it

:08:10.:08:16.

is now. It has gone from the Westminster wine bars to every pub

:08:16.:08:22.

in the learned. This week it has been avalanche. We have some

:08:23.:08:28.

breaking news with Nick Robinson. He has been working hard this

:08:28.:08:33.

morning. Welcome to the programme earlier than usual on a Wednesday.

:08:33.:08:36.

I understand that News International executives have

:08:36.:08:42.

uncovered what they believed to be evidence of who in the organisation

:08:42.:08:46.

sanctioned and commissioned the hacking off the phone off Milly

:08:46.:08:52.

Dowler. You remember that Rebekah Brooks, the chief executive officer

:08:52.:08:55.

of News International, said when this revelation came out that she

:08:55.:09:00.

was shocked and appalled, I am told the evidence does not point to her.

:09:00.:09:06.

They did do a documentary will, and evidence trawl, including e-mail

:09:06.:09:10.

from within the organisation and they believe they have pieced

:09:10.:09:16.

together the jigsaw of who Glenn Mulcaire, the private investigator

:09:16.:09:20.

who apologised yesterday, who exactly he was dealing with and on

:09:20.:09:26.

what basis. Instant mate we want to know who that is was Doug News

:09:26.:09:36.

International are not going to save. I cannot say because I do not know.

:09:36.:09:40.

I am not hinting it is Andy Coulson because I have no evidence to

:09:40.:09:49.

suggest it was him. He has always denied some wrongdoing. News

:09:49.:09:53.

International believe they know pretty clearly who was involved.

:09:53.:09:57.

You would assume they would have to discipline someone if they were

:09:57.:10:01.

still on the staff or if they do not discipline someone, they are

:10:01.:10:07.

suggesting it is someone who already left the building. It is

:10:07.:10:11.

clear that deputy heads must roll. When deputy head's role, they have

:10:11.:10:19.

a habit of telling you what the boss told you. It is not

:10:19.:10:22.

necessarily a get out of jail card for Rebekah Wade because it

:10:22.:10:28.

happened on her watch and it may have been one of her senior

:10:28.:10:32.

executives. What is interesting about that is the phrase, happened

:10:32.:10:36.

on her watch. And Nicholson resigned as editor of News of the

:10:36.:10:43.

World insisting that he did not know anything about phone hacking.

:10:43.:10:48.

-- Andy Coulson. He had to go because it happened on his watch.

:10:48.:10:53.

Rebekah Brooks does not regard that as a precedent that, in that case,

:10:53.:10:58.

someone had gone to prison - the royal reporter of the News of the

:10:58.:11:04.

World. She is not planning to resign simply because it happened

:11:04.:11:07.

on her watch. She said it was inconceivable she knew about it at

:11:07.:11:12.

the time. There is still a determination she will continue to

:11:12.:11:18.

lead to this company. The owners of this company - its shareholders -

:11:18.:11:23.

will have to contemplate whether she credibly can continue to lead

:11:23.:11:27.

both the investigation and the company when it is coming in for

:11:27.:11:33.

such huge criticism. All eyes will be on what David Cameron has to say

:11:33.:11:36.

at Prime Minister's questions in a few minutes' time about the scandal

:11:36.:11:45.

as a whole and about Andy Coulson. Just briefly on that, there is

:11:45.:11:51.

remarkable revelation that came out last night, I forget when but News

:11:51.:11:57.

International itself has handed over at e-mails to the police

:11:57.:12:02.

purporting to show that Andy Coulson was making substantial

:12:02.:12:08.

payments to the police itself. What do we know about that? We know that

:12:08.:12:13.

is what happened. News International handed over those e-

:12:13.:12:18.

mails. Why do we know it? Vanity Fair approached News International

:12:18.:12:23.

and they had the story saying that News International were withholding

:12:23.:12:27.

the e-mails. They said they were so determined to clear their name on

:12:27.:12:31.

at least the issue of co-operating with the police, they decided to

:12:31.:12:37.

confirm that many weeks ago they did indeed hand over e-mails that

:12:37.:12:40.

allegedly showed there were a series of payments to the police

:12:40.:12:44.

sanctioned by Andy Coulson when he was editor of News of the World. It

:12:44.:12:50.

makes it a more political story than it was before. I do not know

:12:50.:12:54.

what the Prime Minister will say. I am clear there is a mood change

:12:54.:12:59.

among those people around David Cameron. They realise it will no

:12:59.:13:04.

longer do to simply say it is a police matter, wait for the

:13:04.:13:09.

evidence to be uncovered. Thank you very much. If Vanity Fair can get

:13:09.:13:15.

stories, there will be a lot coming up. If the distinction is that

:13:15.:13:19.

somebody went to prison, I will be astonished when it is concluded,

:13:19.:13:27.

that a lot of people... If it is right to send someone to prison for

:13:27.:13:35.

hacking into a royal... Most people think that it is bad. We had all

:13:36.:13:39.

these stories from News International. They have had a

:13:39.:13:45.

thorough investigation. They have looked at the e-mails. Every time

:13:46.:13:50.

they are back on the defensive, they find new e-mails. I believe

:13:50.:13:54.

what has happened is because we have Prime Minister's Questions and

:13:54.:14:01.

there is the MPs debate, they want big brokers to switch to David

:14:01.:14:10.

Cameron and Andy Coulson. -- the focus. Can Rebekah Brooks survive?

:14:10.:14:16.

I think it will be very difficult. If Rupert Murdoch wants to touch

:14:16.:14:22.

things out, he well. It has now reached a position where, if I had

:14:22.:14:29.

been in the back of a cab with all the people that had been involved,

:14:29.:14:35.

they're all talking about it. It has reached eight tipping point.

:14:35.:14:44.

is embarrassing for David Cameron because of his relation with Andy

:14:44.:14:52.

Coulson. You supped with these people as well? At times. So were

:14:52.:14:58.

you, so were the BBC. Throughout the time of Tony Blair in Downing

:14:58.:15:05.

Street, I was there once. Rebekah Wade was there more than once.

:15:05.:15:11.

was Rupert Murdoch. You were very close. You are both just as bad.

:15:11.:15:16.

That makes the point. The worst thing that can happen is it becomes

:15:16.:15:21.

a party political debate. As you rightly say, both parties have been

:15:21.:15:26.

guilty of getting too near to the Rupert Murdoch press in all kinds

:15:26.:15:32.

of ways. What one needs to do is look at the issue itself which is

:15:32.:15:38.

the abuse of power. I do agree with that. Latterly towards the end of

:15:38.:15:42.

the Tony Blair pecked -- Premiership, I was adding that the

:15:42.:15:48.

press had become a real problem. Tony should be thinking about doing

:15:48.:15:51.

something. He always said the public cared more about health and

:15:52.:15:57.

education and jobs and it was not the parity. David Cameron now has

:15:57.:16:02.

to show some leadership on this. The public has accepted the press

:16:02.:16:07.

they get is not the press they deserve. The mood has changed. Nick

:16:07.:16:14.

is right about that. Up until a short time ago, less than 24 hours

:16:14.:16:22.

ago, people were still talking in terms of this is simply a media...

:16:22.:16:27.

David Cameron told me he was not going to do to Rupert Murdoch what

:16:27.:16:30.

Tony Blair and Alastair Campbell had done. Within six months he is

:16:30.:16:34.

doing exactly that. It seems the political leaders of our country

:16:34.:16:44.

feel they cannot run this country There is little doubt that the

:16:44.:16:46.

pressure on any Prime Minister is to talk to these people more than

:16:47.:16:54.

they should. Can I make one other point? Of course the pressure is

:16:54.:16:57.

building but the risk in politics is when the pressure gets massively

:16:57.:17:01.

on to one side and we have a free press and must be very careful that

:17:01.:17:09.

the swing the other way does not become one of over-regulation.

:17:09.:17:17.

is fine, as long as that inquiry includes, and I agree in principle,

:17:17.:17:20.

that that inquiry includes the Press Complaints Commission and

:17:20.:17:26.

what those powers and functions are. This has been going on for years.

:17:27.:17:31.

As I said to the leader of the Press Complaints Commission

:17:31.:17:34.

yesterday, the report said if Sega Red Ed - aka self-regulation did

:17:34.:17:42.

not work, we must move to statutory. In principle I still support self-

:17:42.:17:47.

regulation but yesterday, you're interview showed why the Press

:17:47.:17:51.

Complaints Commission has become such a joke. It is a body of the

:17:51.:17:57.

press and for the press. Any inquiry has to have investigative

:17:57.:18:04.

powers but policy, including what system of regulation replaces this.

:18:04.:18:09.

Dare I say said, these issues that have come up, they're far too big

:18:09.:18:13.

for any self-regulating organisation, this is about police

:18:13.:18:20.

not doing their job, accepting criminal action. There has always

:18:20.:18:25.

been a grey area in the press were we accept there is public interest

:18:25.:18:29.

for buying stolen material. And people have not objected to this

:18:29.:18:32.

because of the public interest but what has happened is police have

:18:32.:18:36.

stepped back completely and except that the police -- press can do

:18:36.:18:41.

what they want. This is bigger than any self-regulatory operation.

:18:41.:18:45.

Would anyone want the sun or the News of the World having an

:18:45.:18:51.

endorsement for the next election? Let me just say something. We did

:18:51.:18:59.

not win the election in 1987 because of the Sun. Or 1992? Even

:18:59.:19:03.

on that, we did not lose the election in 1982. I have myself

:19:03.:19:13.

said the Sun likes to be on the winning side. But that begs the

:19:13.:19:18.

question, why were you so close? In your darkest hour, the days after

:19:18.:19:26.

the death of David Kelly, who said to you, you have done nothing wrong,

:19:26.:19:31.

just hang in and don't give them the satisfaction? Rebekah Wade.

:19:31.:19:34.

was a press and communications person and it would be ordered by

:19:34.:19:44.

was not speaking to journalists. That is a personal message. I know.

:19:44.:19:49.

Painting to Downing Street endlessly... Lots of people... I am

:19:49.:19:53.

not saying they do not matter, I say that their influence and

:19:53.:19:58.

standing is overstated, not least by themselves. The son marketed

:19:58.:20:03.

themselves as the endorsement for the election. Of course it

:20:03.:20:07.

matters... Weather David Cameron not win a majority of with

:20:07.:20:11.

virtually all the press behind him? He if you have one organisation

:20:11.:20:16.

that controls almost 40% of the press, it is inevitable that that

:20:16.:20:19.

matters for political leaders, we must be realistic. We have not got

:20:19.:20:24.

time for the rights and wrongs. At the very least, should the

:20:24.:20:34.
:20:34.:20:34.

Government delay the Murdoch bid for BSkyB? Yes. Yes. And on that

:20:34.:20:39.

uncharacteristic and shock unanimity, we must move on. You are

:20:39.:20:46.

being held hostage. Norman Fowler, the release you! Fascinating

:20:46.:20:52.

discussion. We will go to another. I don't want any doubt out there.

:20:52.:20:58.

The very well-known statutory instruments committee. It is a body

:20:58.:21:05.

we like to keep close tabs on every now and then. Stop that! Yesterday

:21:05.:21:08.

the members backed a proposal to make extra loans worth around �9

:21:08.:21:10.

billion available to the International Monetary Fund to fund

:21:10.:21:14.

the bailout of Greece. However, Labour members voted no and a group

:21:14.:21:17.

of Conservative non-members gate- crashed the meeting to vent their

:21:17.:21:25.

fury at the plans. Because of the vote in favour, the proposal should

:21:25.:21:28.

go to what's known as a silent vote in the house, but the rebels

:21:28.:21:31.

haven't given up hope and one of the chief troublemakers, the

:21:31.:21:41.
:21:41.:21:43.

Conservative MP, Douglas Carswell, joins us now. Before we learn about

:21:43.:21:49.

the noise you'll make, tell us what happened yesterday. These

:21:49.:21:52.

committees are normally very staid affairs and the powers that be

:21:52.:21:55.

expect to get business through. On lot of none committee members who

:21:55.:22:00.

felt strongly about this, and you can buy long-term care for older

:22:00.:22:03.

folk with that money and it is wrong to increase the subscription

:22:03.:22:06.

in this way. We turned up to say what we thought our constituents

:22:06.:22:11.

would like us to say. I'm very pleased that on the strength of the

:22:11.:22:14.

argument, Labour voted against these proposals and there will be a

:22:14.:22:18.

ballot of the whole house. Short of making a racket about this, you

:22:18.:22:23.

will not be able to change anything? I am not so sure. There

:22:23.:22:28.

is a fundamental problem, the IMF seems to preside over the first be

:22:28.:22:32.

like in history that has involved ladling more water into the boat.

:22:32.:22:37.

Traditionally, the IMF has followed the principle of what you might

:22:37.:22:42.

call devaluation of the currency, defaulting on debt and downsizing

:22:42.:22:47.

the public sector. Yet, in the Eurozone, it does the opposite and

:22:47.:22:52.

by coughing up �9.2 billion, we allow this problem to be made worse.

:22:52.:22:57.

That is an issue of real concern. Thank you very much. Let's turn to

:22:57.:23:01.

the panel. Is there any justification for giving this money

:23:01.:23:06.

to the IMF when they needed so badly at home? I have not follow

:23:06.:23:10.

the argument they had yesterday but I can see circumstances when it

:23:10.:23:15.

would be, yes. Even though we have the obligation, you would say...?

:23:15.:23:21.

Should we? I can see circumstances were we could. Just because we have

:23:21.:23:25.

massive problems domestically, it does not mean you don't have

:23:25.:23:29.

international obligations. I did not follow the debate yesterday but

:23:29.:23:33.

I can see circumstances were that could be the case. Labour MPs say

:23:33.:23:38.

no, we hate this. They were at this and they are across the argument.

:23:38.:23:42.

You asked me the question if I could see the circumstances and I

:23:42.:23:48.

say yes, I can. I am trying to find out whether, even though we have

:23:48.:23:52.

the obligation, if we should be able to back out gracefully? Is it

:23:52.:23:57.

morally wrong to give this money away? The Treasury minister today

:23:57.:24:00.

said we have to pay this money or we will lose a receipt at the table.

:24:00.:24:05.

It must be the most expensive armchair in history. The truth is,

:24:05.:24:10.

the IMF should not do this, they should leave it to the ECB. The

:24:10.:24:14.

real point is that bailing out something, bailing out a country

:24:14.:24:17.

and actually softening the blow for the country, the country must take

:24:17.:24:24.

measures itself to bring its own economy under control. There are

:24:24.:24:31.

strings attached and you have listened to this. Yes... My point

:24:31.:24:35.

is we cannot separate the globalised economy and domestic and

:24:35.:24:42.

international. Very briefly, do we keep that seat at the table at any

:24:42.:24:46.

cost? Of course, we do not keep the seat at any cost but we must take

:24:46.:24:51.

the arguments on its merits. I have not followed this argument, I say

:24:51.:24:54.

that we do have as a big international player, we must

:24:54.:25:01.

recognise this. Thank you but very much for being with us. Reports are

:25:01.:25:05.

coming to us that this might be the last we see of Speaker Bercow for a

:25:05.:25:08.

while. Stop crying at the back! After the robust exchanges between

:25:08.:25:11.

him and the Prime Minister last week, an aide to David Cameron has

:25:11.:25:14.

suggested John Bercow could now be off to Afghanistan to take part in

:25:14.:25:21.

a job swap with the speaker of the Afghan parliament. No doubt Channel

:25:21.:25:25.

4 will have a reality show on this! Lucky old him. Apparently, Mr

:25:25.:25:29.

Bercow says he'll only go if he can take a Daily Politics mug with him.

:25:29.:25:33.

But he hasn't got one, so he'll have to enter this week's Guess the

:25:33.:25:38.

Year competition. Yes, indeed. Hope you're watching carefully, Mr

:25:38.:25:48.
:25:48.:26:04.

Speaker. We are on iPlayer! Can you There is so much harassment, we

:26:04.:26:14.
:26:14.:26:28.

None of the members of the commission are Marxist and the

:26:28.:26:38.
:26:38.:26:44.

arguments on the report are well- A Labour council hiring taxis to

:26:44.:26:54.
:26:54.:26:57.

scuttle around the city and hand It is ideal for shopping, any

:26:57.:27:07.
:27:07.:27:16.

To be in with a chance of winning a Daily Politics mug, send your

:27:16.:27:19.

answer to our special quiz email address. That's [email protected]

:27:19.:27:22.

You can see the full terms and conditions for Guess the Year on

:27:22.:27:29.

our website, bbc.co.uk/dailypolitics. Are used

:27:29.:27:39.
:27:39.:27:42.

during his tea for him? Cross- party! -- are used during his tea?

:27:42.:27:46.

Anyway, enough of this trivia! It's coming up to midday. Just take a

:27:46.:27:50.

look at Big Ben. That can mean only one thing: Yes, Prime Minister's

:27:50.:27:53.

Questions is on its way. And that's not all. James Landale is with us,

:27:53.:27:59.

just back from accompanying the Prime Minister to Afghanistan.

:27:59.:28:04.

Welcome back. Congratulations. Thank you. You told us that sending

:28:04.:28:08.

the Speaker to Afghanistan isn't a joke? It is true, he will go out

:28:08.:28:12.

there. We will get the Afghans bickered and MPs and Peers will be

:28:12.:28:16.

sent out there, it's to beef up the Afghan parliamentary institutions.

:28:16.:28:25.

That is the theory. That will really work. Hacking? Very hard for

:28:25.:28:30.

the two front benches to ignore this. Both would rather. What

:28:30.:28:35.

tactic does Mr Miliband play to get at Mr Cameron? It's a big Judgement

:28:35.:28:39.

Call, for Ed Miliband, something which he presents himself as a

:28:39.:28:44.

tribune of the people for? Putting pressure on the political Whitehall

:28:44.:28:51.

Westminster elite? Or does he focus more on David Cameron's judgment in

:28:51.:28:55.

Harry Andy Coulson. That is the choice he has. David Cameron, I

:28:55.:28:59.

have been to a briefing at the Prime Minister's spokesman office

:28:59.:29:02.

and we have no view on whether there should be an inquiry, just

:29:02.:29:06.

the Government has the view that MPs should do get this. That line

:29:06.:29:11.

will not hold. Does David Cameron be bold and does he say something

:29:11.:29:16.

has to change? And how far does he go? Does he keep this to the narrow

:29:16.:29:20.

focus on what happened but does he said we need a wider look at the

:29:20.:29:24.

whole issue of media regulation? What angle would you advise and to

:29:24.:29:29.

tie? The first. I would not go down the road of Andy Coulson and

:29:29.:29:33.

Stephen Cameron, this is a bigger subject and he must stay focused on

:29:33.:29:37.

the public revulsion and the public belief that there has to be changed

:29:37.:29:41.

in the media system. If David Cameron is sensible, he will start

:29:41.:29:44.

the process by which there will be an inquiry leading to a new system

:29:44.:29:48.

of regulation. Afghanistan has been overshadowed by this, right or

:29:48.:29:54.

wrong, but there will be a statement? We were on a flight

:29:54.:29:58.

yesterday morning and the only arrived in the UK at 10pm last

:29:58.:30:02.

night so do it Cameron has had a lot of catching up to do. There has

:30:02.:30:06.

been a lot of work overnight and in terms of Ghana Stan, we will get a

:30:06.:30:10.

reduction in troop numbers, around 500. The point is, David Cameron

:30:10.:30:14.

has given in to the generals and he will delay this until the back end

:30:14.:30:18.

of next year. There is a good few fighting seasons with large troop

:30:18.:30:23.

numbers static. The message from the Government to the rest of the

:30:23.:30:27.

NATO allies is, do what we do, not the Americans. But we must follow

:30:27.:30:32.

the Americans? We are entirely dependent on their support system?

:30:32.:30:36.

David Cameron's a collisions that by saying all combat troops will be

:30:36.:30:41.

out by the end of 2014 gives them some slack and within that period,

:30:41.:30:45.

to delay that process and he feels that he can do this by making

:30:45.:30:49.

another statement. He must follow the aggregate timetable and he must

:30:49.:30:54.

make sure the troops are as safe as possible. They will say, cut strips

:30:54.:30:58.

and cost lives. Those who remain will be more vulnerable? Exactly.

:30:59.:31:06.

I'm quite sure that will be the argument. You sense any U-turn?

:31:06.:31:09.

is under huge public pressure. Whenever David Cameron talks about

:31:09.:31:13.

this he talks about the context of... Yesterday, he said these are

:31:13.:31:17.

the questions the public are asking. This is the reassurance I can give.

:31:17.:31:27.

That is his context. Let's go I am sure the whole House will wish

:31:27.:31:32.

to join me in paying tribute to Scott McLaren of The Royal Regiment

:31:33.:31:38.

of Scotland. This week I witnessed at first hand the sacrifice of our

:31:38.:31:41.

soldiers. I pay tribute to the bravery and dedication of this

:31:41.:31:46.

particular soldier who was lost in such tragic circumstances. Our

:31:46.:31:51.

thoughts will be with his family and friends. We pay tribute to him

:31:51.:31:55.

and all like him his serve our country so magnificently in

:31:55.:31:58.

Afghanistan and elsewhere. This morning I had meetings with

:31:59.:32:03.

ministerial colleagues and others. I shall have further such meetings

:32:03.:32:13.
:32:13.:32:13.

later today. I agree with the sentiments the Prime Minister has

:32:13.:32:19.

made. It is a dreaded going thinking about the knock on the

:32:19.:32:25.

door and he is lost in action. Our sympathies go with his father and

:32:25.:32:31.

family at that particular time. Is it right, Mr Speaker, that

:32:31.:32:39.

yesterday we gave �10 billion to be bailed out of the bank's in Greece?

:32:39.:32:46.

We gave �7 billion to the bail out in Ireland. We gave 100 billion -

:32:46.:32:53.

of this is the British tax pair - 100 billion a year for the quality

:32:53.:32:59.

of the banks in this country, for insurance purposes and other

:32:59.:33:04.

purposes. Why does the Prime Minister not get on his bike and go

:33:04.:33:14.
:33:14.:33:18.

down to his friends in the City and sack the few spivs and speculators?

:33:18.:33:23.

First of all, it is this government that has put a bank levy on the

:33:23.:33:27.

banks so they are paying more in every year than they paid in the

:33:27.:33:32.

bank bonus tax under the last government. In terms of Greece, I

:33:32.:33:37.

have kept us out of the European bale out of Greece. In Ireland,

:33:37.:33:41.

that economy is so close and integrated, it is right we give

:33:41.:33:46.

them support. That is the right approach. This government is tough

:33:46.:33:53.

in making sure the banks pay their fair share. Severe drought,

:33:54.:33:57.

conflict and food prices have combined viciously in the Horn of

:33:57.:34:02.

Africa creating desperate hunger and threatening the lives of

:34:02.:34:10.

millions. What is the Government doing to help? As ever, we are

:34:10.:34:14.

being extremely effective in trying to help with the crisis where 10

:34:14.:34:19.

million people are at threat of starvation. We are right to

:34:20.:34:25.

maintain and increase our spending in this area - difficult as the

:34:25.:34:30.

arguments sometimes are. In spite of the difficulties, it is nothing

:34:30.:34:36.

like these people facing starvation and death unless we help them.

:34:36.:34:41.

I join the Prime Minister in paying tribute to Highlander Scott

:34:41.:34:45.

McCarron of the Highlanders forced Battalion The Royal Regiment of

:34:45.:34:50.

Scotland. He was young man, serving our country who died in the most

:34:50.:34:54.

horrific circumstances. The thoughts of the whole House are

:34:54.:34:58.

with his family and friends. The whole country has been appalled

:34:58.:35:04.

about the allegations of phone hacking - the 7/7 victims, the

:35:04.:35:10.

parents of Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman, and of course Milly Dowler.

:35:10.:35:15.

That anyone could listen to the messages and delete them, giving

:35:15.:35:21.

false hope to those parents, is immoral and a disgrace. Given the

:35:21.:35:26.

gravity of what has occurred, will the Prime Minister's support the

:35:26.:35:32.

calls for a ball, independent, public inquiry into the practices

:35:32.:35:39.

of British newspapers? Let me be very clear, yes, we do need to have

:35:39.:35:44.

an inquiry, possibly inquiries into what has happened. We're no longer

:35:44.:35:50.

talking about politicians and celebrities. We are talking about

:35:50.:35:56.

murder victims, potentially terrorist victims, it is absolutely

:35:56.:36:00.

disgusting. Everyone in this House and the country will be revolted at

:36:00.:36:05.

what they have heard and seen on the television. May I make a couple

:36:05.:36:10.

of points? People need to know there is a major police

:36:10.:36:14.

investigation under way. It is one of the biggest police

:36:14.:36:20.

investigations currently under way in our country. It does not involve

:36:20.:36:23.

the police officers who were involved in the original

:36:23.:36:29.

investigation. That clearly did not get to the trees. It is important

:36:29.:36:34.

we had inquiries that are public and independent and have public

:36:34.:36:39.

confidence. It seems there are two vital issues we need to look into.

:36:39.:36:43.

The first is the original police inquiry and why did not get to the

:36:43.:36:47.

bottom of what happened and the second is about the behaviour of

:36:47.:36:53.

individual people and individual media organisations. A wider look

:36:53.:36:58.

into media practices and ethics in this country. As he says, we cannot

:36:58.:37:02.

start all that sort of inquiry immediately because you must not

:37:02.:37:07.

jeopardise the police investigation. It may be possible to start some of

:37:07.:37:11.

that work earlier. I'm very happy to discuss this with him, with

:37:11.:37:15.

other party leaders to make sure we get this right and that lessons are

:37:16.:37:22.

learnt from what has become a disgraceful episode. Let me say to

:37:22.:37:26.

the Prime Minister I am encouraged that he does recognise now the need

:37:26.:37:31.

for a full public inquiry into what happened. He is right to say this

:37:31.:37:39.

the police investigation has taken its course. As he said in his

:37:39.:37:44.

answer, that may take some years. It is possible for the Prime

:37:44.:37:49.

Minister to start his process now. He should immediately appoint a

:37:49.:37:54.

senior figure, potentially a judge, to lead this inquiry. Make clear it

:37:54.:37:58.

will have the power to call witnesses under oath and establish

:37:58.:38:03.

clear terms of reference, covering a number of key issues. The culture

:38:03.:38:07.

and practices of the industry, the nature of regulation which is

:38:07.:38:12.

absolutely crucial, and also the relationship between the police and

:38:12.:38:18.

the media. I wonder whether he can just respond on those points.

:38:18.:38:23.

want to respond positively. Of the two issues I mentioned, the conduct

:38:23.:38:27.

of the earlier police inquiry and the broader lessons about ethics in

:38:27.:38:32.

the media, I do not think it is possible to start an investigation

:38:32.:38:37.

into the format until the police investigation is continued. There

:38:37.:38:42.

would be a danger of jeopardising the current police inquiry. I do

:38:42.:38:45.

think responding positively to what he says it may be possible to make

:38:45.:38:50.

a start on other elements. I do not want us to rush this decision. I

:38:50.:38:55.

want us to get it right, having discussed it with other party

:38:55.:38:58.

leaders, the Attorney-General and the Cabinet Secretary. All too

:38:58.:39:02.

often these inquiries are set up to early without thinking through what

:39:02.:39:12.
:39:12.:39:12.

needs to be done. I think the Prime estate is applied -- implying that

:39:12.:39:20.

it can start now and it is very important that we do so. A beer to

:39:20.:39:29.

the day, he did appoint an inquiry about the treatment of detainees.

:39:29.:39:34.

Let me go on to ask him about what happens in the meantime pending

:39:34.:39:39.

this public inquiry. We have consistently said the BSkyB bid

:39:39.:39:42.

should be referred to the Competition Commission and not

:39:42.:39:46.

dealt with in the way the Culture Secretary has done. The Prime

:39:46.:39:52.

Minister must realise the public will react with disbelief if, next

:39:52.:39:57.

week, the decision is taken to go ahead with this deal at the time

:39:57.:40:02.

when news International is subject to a major criminal investigation

:40:02.:40:07.

and we do not yet know who charges will be laid against. Does the

:40:07.:40:12.

Prime Minister agree the BSkyB bid should now be referred to the

:40:12.:40:16.

Competition Commission to provide a breathing space that is required?

:40:16.:40:21.

Let me answer the point about Gibson. It is a good and fair point.

:40:21.:40:27.

We established the Gibson Inquiry but it has not made much process --

:40:27.:40:31.

progress until criminal proceedings had been brought to an end. You do

:40:32.:40:36.

not want to jeopardise a police operation which you would do so if

:40:36.:40:40.

you start questioning witnesses through a public inquiry process at

:40:40.:40:44.

the same time they are being questioned through a police process.

:40:44.:40:50.

I want us to get on with this issue. The faster we can set up other

:40:50.:40:54.

elements of the inquiry, the happier I will be. About BSkyB,

:40:54.:40:59.

what we have done is followed the correct legal processes. That is

:40:59.:41:06.

what the Government has to do. The Secretary of State is in a quiet

:41:06.:41:12.

side judicial rale - he has to follow that. The leader of the

:41:12.:41:17.

Labour Party said that the issue of competition and plurality is

:41:17.:41:20.

separate from the very important issue we are discussing today.

:41:20.:41:25.

These processes must be followed properly, including bike of calm.

:41:25.:41:34.

They have the duty to make a recommendation. -- including by

:41:34.:41:40.

Ofcom. Mr Speaker, I am afraid that answer was out of touch. The public

:41:40.:41:47.

will not accept the idea that, with this scandal engulfing the News of

:41:47.:41:50.

the World and News International, that the Government should, in the

:41:50.:41:55.

coming days be making a decision outside of the normal processes for

:41:55.:42:00.

them to take control of one of the biggest media organisations in the

:42:01.:42:05.

country. I know this is difficult for him but I strongly urge him to

:42:05.:42:10.

think again and send this decision to the proper authority, which is

:42:10.:42:14.

the Competition Commission. This will provide breathing space for

:42:14.:42:19.

legitimacy and the proper decisions to be made. I would say to him that

:42:19.:42:24.

the decision making has been through the proper processes. It is

:42:24.:42:27.

right the Government acts are legally in every way. That is what

:42:27.:42:32.

it has done. One is about morality and ethics and a police

:42:32.:42:37.

investigator that needs to be carried out in the proper way. They

:42:37.:42:41.

have total independence. The other is about plurality and competition

:42:41.:42:46.

which has to act under the law. Incredible as he has done a U-turn

:42:46.:42:53.

in order to look good in the House of Commons. Mr Speaker, this is not

:42:53.:43:03.
:43:03.:43:05.

the time for technicalities or low We have said consistently,

:43:05.:43:10.

throughout this process, that this bid should be referred to the

:43:10.:43:14.

Competition Commission. This is the right way forward. The Prime

:43:14.:43:20.

Minister should speak for the country on this issue. This is what

:43:20.:43:25.

people want him to do. I hope he will think again because it is in

:43:25.:43:28.

the interests of the media industry and the British public that this is

:43:28.:43:32.

properly referred to the Competition Commission in the way

:43:32.:43:37.

that all other bids are dealt with. What we also know, as well as

:43:37.:43:42.

needing a public inquiry and the BSkyB bid referred to the

:43:42.:43:45.

Competition Commission, these were not the actions of a rogue

:43:45.:43:50.

individual or a road reporter but part of a wider, systematic pattern

:43:50.:43:58.

of the abuses. The public sees no one wanting to take responsibility

:43:58.:44:03.

for what happened. No one is denying the phone off Milly Dowler

:44:03.:44:10.

was hat. No one is denying it happened on the watch of the editor

:44:10.:44:15.

of the newspaper at the time. Will the Prime Minister join me if he

:44:15.:44:18.

believes the people taking responsibility for insane she

:44:18.:44:26.

should take responsibility and consider her position? -- in saying.

:44:26.:44:30.

Let me deal with the technicalities. When you are dealing with the law,

:44:30.:44:33.

you have to look at the technicalities because there is

:44:33.:44:38.

something called up to process that you have to follow. That is

:44:38.:44:45.

necessary for any government. -- called due process. Everyone needs

:44:46.:44:50.

to ask searching questions at News International. Everyone is subject

:44:50.:44:54.

to one of the largest police investigations under way in this

:44:54.:44:58.

country. We should let the police do their work was done they should

:44:59.:45:03.

follow the evidence, Brett it needs was a big people are guilty of

:45:03.:45:08.

wrongdoing, they should have no hesitation in making sure they are

:45:08.:45:18.
:45:18.:45:19.

I am clear, she should take responsibility and stand down. And

:45:19.:45:24.

Mr Speaker, these events show a systematic set of abuses which

:45:24.:45:27.

demonstrate the abuse of power without responsibility in the

:45:27.:45:30.

country and is in the interests of democracy and the public that these

:45:30.:45:33.

are sorted out. With the biggest press scandal in modern times

:45:33.:45:37.

getting worse by the day, I'm afraid he has not shown the

:45:37.:45:41.

leadership necessary today. He has not shown in leadership necessary

:45:41.:45:46.

on BSkyB, or on a News International. And is it not the

:45:46.:45:52.

case that if the public is to have confidence in him, he must accept

:45:52.:45:59.

that he made a catastrophic error of judgment by bringing Andy

:45:59.:46:09.

Coulson... Into the heart of his Downing Street machine? What

:46:09.:46:15.

people... Order! Order! The Prime Minister should not have to shout

:46:15.:46:20.

to be heard or should the leader of the opposition. It is thoroughly

:46:20.:46:25.

disorderly. The Prime Minister will be heard. I take full

:46:25.:46:28.

responsibility for everyone I employed and everyone I. And I take

:46:28.:46:31.

responsibility for everything my Government does. What this

:46:32.:46:36.

Government is doing is making sure that the public, and I felt

:46:36.:46:40.

appalled by what has happened, murder victims, terrorist victims

:46:41.:46:45.

who have had their phones tapped, that is disgraceful and there must

:46:45.:46:48.

be a full police investigation of all the powers they need. That is

:46:48.:46:51.

why it is important we have as inquiries to get to the bottom of

:46:51.:46:55.

what went wrong and the lessons that need learning. That is why we

:46:55.:46:58.

need to enquire as to how we improve the ethics and morals of

:46:58.:47:01.

the press in this country and make sure they improve for the future.

:47:02.:47:04.

That is what needs to be done and what this Government is doing and

:47:04.:47:11.

we don't have to take lectures from him about it. Nicky Morgan. Thank

:47:11.:47:17.

you. For the year 9 pupils at a high-school and my constituency,

:47:17.:47:22.

they have joined hundreds of other pupils to the send my sister to

:47:22.:47:25.

school campaign and will the Prime Minister and support to the scores

:47:25.:47:29.

and I should not remind people that good education here or overseas

:47:29.:47:34.

transforms children's lives and their life chances. I am delighted

:47:34.:47:38.

to welcome the campaign that she mentions and her personal support.

:47:38.:47:43.

The fact is that across the world there are 39 million curls out of

:47:43.:47:47.

school and even if they are in school, the gender gaps we see are

:47:47.:47:52.

appalling and in the UK, with the aid budget, we are securing

:47:52.:47:57.

schooling for 11 million children by 2015, that is more in the UK but

:47:57.:48:02.

we can do this at 2.5% of the cost. This is a good investment for

:48:02.:48:08.

British taxpayers to make sure we reduce inequality in the world.

:48:08.:48:11.

the Prime Minister explain whether he thinks the cost of his NHS

:48:11.:48:15.

reforms, set to rise even further with the revelation that a new

:48:15.:48:18.

super quango in the NHS will be created, might be partly

:48:18.:48:21.

responsible for the funding squeeze affecting health services in

:48:21.:48:27.

Harrow? It puts at risk services at the popular Alexandria Avenue

:48:27.:48:32.

clinic in my constituency. What we have seen since this Government has

:48:32.:48:36.

taken office is more than 2000 doctors and 4000 fewer managers.

:48:36.:48:40.

And we're cutting bureaucracy by one-third. They don't like to hear

:48:40.:48:45.

it, but if we follow their plans and cut in a chest and -- spending,

:48:45.:48:49.

we would see the numbers of doctors and nurses coming down and just

:48:49.:48:53.

this morning we have seen the numbers of diagnostic tests going

:48:53.:49:00.

up. Because of the investment going in under this Government. The Prime

:49:00.:49:04.

Minister will be aware of the news this morning that Portugal's debt

:49:04.:49:07.

has been downgraded. Does he agree that it is a warning to every

:49:07.:49:12.

member of this house that you cannot put off difficult decisions

:49:12.:49:19.

and the only plan B is bankruptcy? My friend is right, Plan B stands

:49:19.:49:22.

for bankruptcy. We can see what happens when governments do not get

:49:23.:49:27.

a grip of their debt and deficit. That is what this Government does

:49:27.:49:32.

and the party opposite have learnt nothing. Does the Prime Minister

:49:32.:49:35.

agree with me that the maximum sentence for the offence of

:49:35.:49:40.

dangerous driving does not properly reflect the potential harm caused

:49:40.:49:45.

to victims? Sometimes these victims are left paralysed and brain damage.

:49:46.:49:49.

Will the Prime Minister's support me and my front bench in increasing

:49:49.:49:54.

the maximum sentence took seven years? I know that the Honourable

:49:54.:49:57.

Gentleman speaks with personal knowledge about this, not just

:49:57.:50:00.

because of his constituency case that he wrote to me about but

:50:00.:50:04.

because of his work as a barrister before coming to this place. I

:50:04.:50:14.
:50:14.:50:16.

brought to me, someone was really damaged permanently for life and

:50:16.:50:19.

the next one sentence is two years. We are looking at this issue and we

:50:19.:50:27.

hope to make progress. To even more us. What the Prime Minister agree

:50:27.:50:35.

that the event should be allowed from the opposition of �10 billion

:50:35.:50:41.

isn't just the fear not in the IMF and in the 1970s, the IMF bailed

:50:41.:50:51.

out their government? I agree with what my friend said and it was

:50:51.:50:55.

remarkable yesterday that the Labour Party put themselves in a

:50:55.:50:59.

position of opposing our involvement in the IMF. Britain is

:50:59.:51:01.

a serious global economy and we should take responsibility for

:51:02.:51:09.

serious global issues, including through the IMF. David Simpson.

:51:09.:51:13.

Does the Prime Minister agree that details of all the weapons and

:51:13.:51:16.

explosives be commissioned in Northern Ireland should be made

:51:16.:51:22.

public, as promised? And will he agree to have negotiations with the

:51:22.:51:25.

Irish government to move forward to the Americans to see that it

:51:25.:51:33.

happens? The Independent Commission did not provide us with an

:51:33.:51:36.

inventory, they were an independent body and this was a decision for

:51:36.:51:42.

them to make, difficult as that is. They stated that we would not want

:51:42.:51:46.

to inadvertently discourage further decommissioning with groups that

:51:46.:51:54.

are actively engaged. This is difficult and we're having to deal

:51:54.:51:58.

in Northern Ireland with difficult things in order to bring conflict

:51:58.:52:01.

to an end and keep conflict to an end and this is what the

:52:02.:52:09.

commissioner's report did. On the issue of delaying inquiries, the

:52:09.:52:13.

public have little confidence in the Metropolitan Police, were

:52:13.:52:17.

investigations concerning News International are concerned. Colour

:52:17.:52:22.

remind him of a question I asked in April, will he have a full judicial

:52:22.:52:25.

inquiry that looks particularly at the link between News International

:52:25.:52:30.

and the Metropolitan Police? Clearly this is a very important

:52:30.:52:34.

issue and my friend is disgusted with the Commissioner of the

:52:34.:52:39.

Metropolitan Police. -- has discussed it. Let me try to

:52:39.:52:42.

reassure the house and the on and a gentleman about this because even

:52:42.:52:47.

before you get to the point about independent and public inquiries,

:52:47.:52:50.

what the public needs to know is that the police will go about their

:52:50.:52:53.

job properly in terms of this investigation and they do need to

:52:53.:52:58.

know that this is an investigation completely separate from the

:52:58.:53:02.

previous investigation and as it stands today, it is one of the

:53:02.:53:06.

largest police investigations going on anywhere in the country. Teresa

:53:06.:53:11.

Pearce. Thank you. The victims of knife crime in London have

:53:11.:53:15.

increased by 8% over the last three months. On the streets of London

:53:15.:53:18.

have children carrying knives and other children afraid of the

:53:18.:53:23.

journey to and from school. Last Friday, on a busy shopping parade,

:53:23.:53:28.

a 16 year-old constituent of mine was stabbed to death. Two children

:53:28.:53:31.

have been arrested in connection with this and what with the Prime

:53:31.:53:36.

Minister do to ensure that the mayor of London gets a grip on this

:53:36.:53:41.

problem and that was one of the election promises? The case that

:53:41.:53:44.

she raises is a tragic one and there are still too many victims of

:53:44.:53:48.

knife crime, particularly among young people, in our cities. What

:53:48.:53:52.

we're doing is creating a new offence with a mandatory sentence

:53:52.:53:55.

to send a clear message to those who carry knives. The offence would

:53:55.:53:59.

apply to those with the knife who threaten and endanger others and a

:53:59.:54:03.

public place. It will send a clear message to those who possess nice,

:54:03.:54:09.

if you threaten anyone, you go to jail. What the Prime Minister agree

:54:09.:54:13.

that those who pay back early their student loans are doing the right

:54:13.:54:19.

thing and should be encouraged? If so, how is it consistent with the

:54:19.:54:22.

government policy which is apparently want to discourage

:54:22.:54:26.

people from paying back early and indeed penalising them for early

:54:26.:54:31.

repayment? I would urge my friend to look carefully at the details of

:54:31.:54:36.

what we propose. We want a progressive system were people who

:54:36.:54:39.

earn more pay back more and that is why we have the system were nobody

:54:39.:54:44.

pays anything until they earn �21,000 and you don't pay back in

:54:44.:54:49.

full until �35,000. We are proposing that people who pay back

:54:49.:54:53.

�3,000 a year, as they earn money, should not be discouraged because

:54:53.:55:01.

that is the right thing to do. opposition the Prime Minister was

:55:01.:55:08.

clear that... Last week, he said I fell back on the same explanation

:55:08.:55:11.

is that he refused to accept when they were given to him by the

:55:11.:55:19.

previous Prime Minister. What has changed? We have banned the Taliban,

:55:19.:55:25.

we have taken action, and as my friend, the Lord Chancellor, will

:55:25.:55:30.

history testify, it is endlessly frustrating that we are subject to

:55:30.:55:33.

so many legal requirements but I'm afraid we have to be a government

:55:33.:55:43.
:55:43.:55:47.

under the law. Order! Mr Robert Hall Farm... Given that the

:55:47.:55:51.

Olympics and the Diamond Jubilee are next to, is the Prime Minister

:55:51.:55:55.

aware that emigration Special Branch officers are concerned that

:55:55.:55:59.

the common area of travel channel allows illegal migrants, Islamists

:55:59.:56:03.

and terrorists, into the country without passports being checked.

:56:03.:56:08.

Will he take steps to close this loophole immediately? By friend

:56:08.:56:11.

makes an important point but I would say that passport free travel

:56:11.:56:14.

between the UK and Crown dependencies and the Republic of

:56:14.:56:18.

Ireland has been in place for many years and it offers economic and

:56:18.:56:22.

social benefits. I except that these routes can be open to abuse

:56:22.:56:26.

and we're determined to resolve this, the UK Border Agency is

:56:26.:56:29.

working closely with Ireland and others to make sure this happens

:56:29.:56:31.

what we want to try to do this without disadvantaging people who

:56:31.:56:41.
:56:41.:56:41.

can take advantage of this common travel area up to now.

:56:41.:56:44.

committee's secretary and the DWP secretary has said that British

:56:44.:56:49.

employers should employ British workers. Will the Prime Minister

:56:49.:56:59.

start with the DWP offshore or company in offering -- outsourcing

:56:59.:57:05.

jobs to Bangalore? I understand the case she makes... Order! I want to

:57:05.:57:11.

hear the answer! What we need to do is make sure that our welfare

:57:11.:57:16.

reforms are encouraging those people who sit on welfare and could

:57:16.:57:20.

work and make them go out to work. Under the party opposite, yes,

:57:20.:57:24.

economic growth but 5 million working-age people living on

:57:24.:57:31.

benefits. That isn't good enough and we will change that. What the

:57:31.:57:40.

Prime Minister agree that centres in rural areas provide a valuable

:57:40.:57:43.

service to their local communities and hundreds of my constituents

:57:43.:57:49.

send this message to Derbyshire NHS as they threaten the closure of the

:57:49.:57:54.

centre? I agree of my friend and we want to see maternity networks so

:57:54.:57:58.

that mothers can make a choice about where they can give birth.

:57:58.:58:02.

Whether that is in a community setting, midwife lead or in a

:58:02.:58:06.

district general hospital, where they have all the paraphernalia of

:58:06.:58:14.

consultants, and it should be a choice made by them. Is the Prime

:58:14.:58:18.

Minister aware that when yesterday Bombardier had to announce

:58:18.:58:22.

redundancies, including skilled engineers and signers, the company

:58:22.:58:27.

made public for the first time that they had offered to establish a new

:58:27.:58:31.

Academy in this country for the design and manufacture of cars for

:58:31.:58:35.

the next generation of high-speed trains in this country and across

:58:35.:58:40.

the world. More jobs and jobs with even higher skills. He won't have

:58:40.:58:43.

had time to familiarise himself with the details but will he

:58:43.:58:47.

undertake to look into this with care to give substance to the

:58:47.:58:49.

commitment to give in my constituency to British

:58:49.:58:54.

manufacturing? I will look very carefully at what the Honourable

:58:54.:59:00.

Lady has said about this but let me just say this... I Want to See More

:59:00.:59:04.

British jobs in manufacturing and as we are seeing across the country

:59:04.:59:09.

but in case of Bombardier, the procurement process was designed

:59:10.:59:16.

and emaciated by the Government of which she was apart. We are bound

:59:16.:59:19.

by the criteria they set out and therefore we must continue with the

:59:19.:59:23.

decision that has been made according to that. Separately, we

:59:23.:59:27.

are setting out to ask the question, what more can we do within the

:59:27.:59:31.

current rules to make sure that the boost manufacturing in the country?

:59:31.:59:38.

And not have situations like this in the future. 12 days ago a young

:59:38.:59:43.

constituent of mine was the victim of a vicious knife attack. This

:59:43.:59:48.

last weekend, another 16 year-old man was also the victim of a knife

:59:48.:59:53.

attack. Will my Right Honourable friend join with me in condemning

:59:53.:59:57.

this upsurge in gang related violence and confirm that those

:59:57.:00:04.

that carry knives will be facing a custodial sentence if apprehended?

:00:04.:00:10.

As I have said, it is important to send a clear message about this and

:00:10.:00:12.

we're doing that with the new offence that carries a mandatory

:00:12.:00:16.

sentence and that is a single to anyone who contemplate carrying a

:00:16.:00:22.

knife. We should be frank. Surely looking at this from a criminal

:00:22.:00:26.

justice situation isn't the answer. We have to ask ourselves why so

:00:26.:00:29.

many young people joined gangs and why aren't families and communities

:00:29.:00:33.

doing more to keep them close and prevent the carrying of knives and

:00:33.:00:42.

that is something that runs across government. It isn't the case of

:00:42.:00:47.

the Government follows the normal process in relation to the takeover

:00:47.:00:51.

of BSkyB. Why does he believe the assurances that News Corporation

:00:52.:00:55.

executives give are any more credible than the ones they give

:00:55.:01:01.

over phone hacking? We have followed the correct processes and

:01:01.:01:05.

indeed, if you do not know the correct process, you will be

:01:05.:01:07.

judicially reviewed and all the decisions you would like to make

:01:07.:01:17.
:01:17.:01:20.

for a political point of view it will be struck down in the courts.

:01:20.:01:25.

Order! If the house can overcome its collective mirth, we will hear

:01:26.:01:35.

Mr Ian Miss Wales. I visited a school in my constituency which is

:01:35.:01:39.

the 17th most deprived primary- school in the country. Will the

:01:39.:01:42.

Prime Minister join me in congratulating the school and the

:01:42.:01:46.

community in their work to convert an area of demolished houses into a

:01:46.:01:50.

playing field and will he ensure the Government improves its pupil

:01:50.:01:59.

premium policy to support this excellent work? I believe the

:01:59.:02:06.

people premium which will pump billions into the most deprived

:02:06.:02:08.

children in deprived parts of the country will make a huge difference

:02:08.:02:18.
:02:18.:02:30.

That was the penultimate Prime Minister's Questions. That is the

:02:30.:02:40.
:02:40.:02:43.

second last! Yes! Phone hacking dominated the exchanges. We have

:02:43.:02:46.

agreement that there should be an inquiry but exactly when and with

:02:46.:02:52.

the terms of reference, obviously there are no concrete piece of news

:02:52.:02:56.

but there is disagreement on whether Mr Murdoch's attempt to buy

:02:56.:03:00.

60% of BSkyB that he does not own should be referred to the

:03:00.:03:08.

Competition Commission for at least delayed. Why that was going on in

:03:08.:03:18.
:03:18.:03:19.

Parliament, the outside world is We learned in the last half hour

:03:20.:03:24.

that Halifax, Virgin Holidays, Lloyds Bank and Vauxhall Motors had

:03:24.:03:31.

also withdrawn. There is a sense of an avalanche. There is talk of

:03:31.:03:35.

Renault, cabarets, at NatWest, Coca-Cola, Body Shop pulls up

:03:35.:03:44.

various others may not be advertising. That think can hurt.

:03:44.:03:54.
:03:54.:03:56.

We remember what happened to The Sun paper macro. Boycotts can hit

:03:56.:04:03.

you. Rupert Murdoch likes big, thick bottom lines. One of the new

:04:03.:04:08.

things we have been doing is monitoring the tweets that come in.

:04:08.:04:12.

In the Westminster village, those people who make their business

:04:13.:04:16.

punting on these issues, they thought that Ed Miliband scored a

:04:16.:04:23.

clear win. Wiped the floor with David Cameron. These up all people

:04:23.:04:30.

who work in the business. What about you? This one from Peter in

:04:30.:04:35.

Oxfordshire. David Cameron failed to address the public perception of

:04:35.:04:39.

the close link between News International and the Conservative

:04:39.:04:45.

Party. It seems Ed Miliband judges people before they are found guilty,

:04:45.:04:51.

says Maureen Ryan. Chris from Sheffield says what a disgusting

:04:51.:04:57.

attitude by members of the opposition towards the Prime

:04:57.:05:01.

Minister. He was being heckled constantly by Labour backbenchers.

:05:01.:05:06.

Another one, what a waste! What we care about is trying to make a

:05:06.:05:12.

static way to go even further week after week. Alastair Campbell,

:05:12.:05:15.

adviser to David Cameron and the Prime Minister, and they say that

:05:15.:05:20.

because he wrote a new block. I have heard to say before that Mr

:05:20.:05:24.

Cameron would stand up and then as he would agree to the principle of

:05:24.:05:30.

a broad-based inquiry and that is what he did. I am glad he did it.

:05:30.:05:34.

Ed Miliband Havel did extremely well. David Cameron did the right

:05:34.:05:43.

thing. -- Ed Miliband handled it extremely well. I think now of this

:05:43.:05:48.

inquiry has to be wide ranging. It cannot just be about the News of

:05:48.:05:52.

the World. It is about links with police and private investigators.

:05:52.:05:58.

It has to lead to a settlement between politics and the media. A

:05:58.:06:03.

lot of politicians will start to think that maybe Selfridge it --

:06:03.:06:09.

self regulation is best. The Prime Minister a's line is that we have

:06:09.:06:16.

to follow to process. The Culture Secretary does not meet without

:06:16.:06:21.

half a dozen lawyers in the same room so he is being seen to act to

:06:21.:06:24.

the letter of the law. Public opinion and the public mood is

:06:24.:06:32.

another thing. Can apposition be sustained? I thought the first part

:06:33.:06:37.

was Parliament at its best was that it was the right tone was a bit

:06:37.:06:47.
:06:47.:06:51.

came a par with the BSkyB quote. -- -- beat it where it came apart was

:06:51.:07:00.

with the BSkyB quote. What is very likely to happen is that somebody

:07:00.:07:06.

will resurrect all bring up the fit and proper test. There is a

:07:06.:07:10.

requirement, said Labour media takeovers, that the person taking

:07:10.:07:18.

over has to meet a fit and proper test. The default option is Ofcom.

:07:18.:07:23.

That is the regulatory body for the media. It looks rather weak. I

:07:23.:07:28.

think Mr Cameron will go back to No. 10 and say, find me a way through

:07:28.:07:34.

all of this. Why can it not be referred to the Competition

:07:34.:07:43.

Commission? New information, I have changed my mind. It is more fit and

:07:43.:07:49.

proper. This whole picture has changed completely. We do not know,

:07:49.:07:54.

we will not know for months, quite how far up the Murdoch organisation

:07:54.:08:00.

the blame for these problems goes. That is the key issue. If it goes

:08:00.:08:07.

right to senior level... You do not do �750,000 settlements with Gordon

:08:07.:08:16.

Taylor without it going very high up. It will open the doors to much

:08:16.:08:19.

more. If you came back of a plane last night and were presented with

:08:19.:08:26.

a problem like this, you can announce two inquiries - one on the

:08:26.:08:31.

police and one on the issue of wider media regulation. He had no

:08:31.:08:36.

alternative about that. So many people will say, if we touch the

:08:36.:08:42.

BSkyB issue, we have to get it right. We cannot get it wrong. The

:08:42.:08:49.

moment something goes wrong with it, the consequences could be huge.

:08:49.:08:55.

supplied to Ben Bradshaw was rather tetchy. We will have to go and find

:08:55.:09:00.

out what is the wiggle room the Government have. The question by

:09:00.:09:05.

Ben Bradshaw was quite interesting. He knows a bit about the background

:09:05.:09:13.

to this. I think David is right. I think David Cameron looked very

:09:13.:09:18.

uncomfortable. The public, whether he likes it or not, they are

:09:18.:09:24.

linking the two issues. It is big enough to have a public inquiry

:09:24.:09:29.

into the media but to have a public inquiry into the police and the

:09:29.:09:33.

media would be unprecedented and potentially devastating for a lot

:09:33.:09:37.

of people. Labour members of the Metropolitan Police have authority

:09:37.:09:46.

have called upon Paul Stephenson to refer the bourse voluntary -- be

:09:46.:09:51.

forced voluntary to the Independent Police Complaints Commission.

:09:51.:09:57.

are dragging people out of bed at midnight and all the rest of it.

:09:57.:10:07.
:10:07.:10:09.

Compare the lack of zeal on this! You, I understand, are currently

:10:09.:10:13.

Labour's largest individual donor. Why it is Ed Miliband not

:10:13.:10:19.

attracting more financial support? We are the third most interesting

:10:19.:10:25.

party at the moment. In Scotland we are the 4th most interesting party

:10:25.:10:29.

or they may be the Lib Dems do not count. It you have got to be head

:10:29.:10:34.

of the Tories and the Lib Dems. We're the third most interesting

:10:34.:10:38.

party. The Tories are the Government. Business has moved back

:10:38.:10:43.

a fair amount and Ed is finding it hard to attract that sort of

:10:43.:10:49.

support. That is inevitable at this stage of the parliament. David will

:10:49.:10:53.

know this from when he was trying to raise money through his campaign,

:10:53.:10:58.

money does tend to go a bit towards where they think the winners Mike

:10:58.:11:05.

bees. It is about -- might be. It will have done him and the PLP a

:11:05.:11:14.

lot of beard. I was surprised my donation was the largest last month.

:11:14.:11:20.

Next month it will be the guy who paid for the dedication of my book

:11:20.:11:30.
:11:30.:11:31.

was up is that this book here? said, during the leadership

:11:31.:11:35.

campaign, I think Ed Miliband is a really nice guy. The need to

:11:35.:11:39.

differentiate between making the party feel ABOUT losing a making

:11:39.:11:45.

the party face up to what it needs to get into shape again. He is yet

:11:45.:11:51.

to do that, hasn't he? If he has started the process. He has the

:11:51.:11:57.

space now. I think a lot of us, and a lot of our people, have found it

:11:57.:12:02.

hard to adapt to the fact the are no longer in government. It cannot

:12:02.:12:09.

have opened debates. If somebody says something... We are having

:12:09.:12:14.

them, why can't you? I think the Labour Party can have a much more

:12:14.:12:20.

lively and much more robust debate about past, present and future. Ed

:12:21.:12:26.

is getting a very bad press most of the time. He should get a

:12:26.:12:32.

reasonable press after today. Ultimately, politics is about

:12:32.:12:37.

making big strategic choices. I do not think we up their lead in terms

:12:37.:12:43.

of being clear about the strategy we want to pursue. -- we are bare.

:12:43.:12:49.

Up he said he would be the Iain Duncan-Smith of the Labour Party.

:12:49.:12:56.

can remember, that is ridiculous, it cannot be as bad as that. In the

:12:56.:13:01.

latest poll in the Independent on Sunday, it says that Ed Miliband is

:13:01.:13:06.

more unpopular than Iain Duncan- Smith in the same stage of his

:13:06.:13:11.

leadership. The mood around him has been very negative. He needs to

:13:11.:13:16.

keep going. There has to be a big debate. There is no problem with

:13:16.:13:21.

having an open debate and differences of opinion about why we

:13:21.:13:27.

lost and the economic policies pursued, we should have that debate.

:13:27.:13:33.

Ed does have the manner. He has a nice touch with people. He is

:13:33.:13:38.

developing in Parliament. The important thing is about policy. We

:13:38.:13:41.

can afford to have a much more robust debate the we're having at

:13:42.:13:51.
:13:52.:13:52.

the moment. Some in your party will not one that debate. There is no

:13:52.:13:57.

agreement over the past. Some people in the party, Ed Balls among

:13:57.:14:02.

others, think a debate that looks to the past is distracting. The

:14:02.:14:08.

next election should be fought on future issues. You should not enter

:14:08.:14:18.
:14:18.:14:19.

an argument about who did what rank in the last Parliament, at the last

:14:19.:14:22.

government. That is why we should all recognise that nobody has

:14:22.:14:28.

anything to fear. I think it would do the Labour Party a lot of good.

:14:29.:14:32.

Every time I read about, if somebody says something slightly

:14:32.:14:38.

different to what Ed has said, there is a plot going on. There is

:14:38.:14:43.

no plot that I know off. It is a desire to learn lessons about why

:14:43.:14:48.

we lost and what we did when we were winning elections. That is

:14:48.:14:54.

really important. Just a comment on the poll thing. Whoever won the

:14:54.:14:59.

leadership election, with the in a difficult position. That is the

:14:59.:15:04.

biggest story. All of them would be in trouble. Unless you have this

:15:04.:15:09.

debate, that is all we will talk about. The Tory high command view

:15:09.:15:13.

at the moment where they have not got a lot to cheer about because

:15:13.:15:18.

they're in the worst part of the political and economic cycle... Of

:15:18.:15:24.

the second worst part. These draw they grasp is that we're up against

:15:24.:15:31.

Ed Miliband, they say. Isn't that dangerously complacent? It is good

:15:31.:15:36.

for rattling the other side. When Iain Duncan Smith was leader we

:15:36.:15:40.

used to have a weekly meeting, sitting down. We used to work out

:15:40.:15:46.

what his drinks were, what his weaknesses were. -- his strengths.

:15:46.:15:56.
:15:56.:16:09.

You should never underestimate your Thank you for being with us. And

:16:09.:16:13.

things aren't moving with the News of the World story and we learnt

:16:13.:16:19.

that the court has also suspended its dealings with News of the World

:16:19.:16:22.

and an investigation is taking place. It's often thought the

:16:22.:16:25.

French dress better than us, cook better food than us and produce

:16:25.:16:30.

better wine. And, of course, they strike better than us. According to

:16:30.:16:33.

the French entrepreneur PY Gerbeau, they take to the streets on an

:16:33.:16:38.

almost daily basis. Here's his soapbox on why we should not be

:16:38.:16:48.
:16:48.:16:57.

trying to emulate our friends across the Channel. I left my

:16:57.:17:02.

beloved France 11 years ago to work and live in the UK, mainly to avoid

:17:02.:17:06.

the end this French striking culture. There is a strike almost

:17:06.:17:11.

every day which not only paralyses the country but also stops any

:17:11.:17:16.

entrepreneurs of being able to run any business. The French population

:17:16.:17:21.

is constantly taken hostage by trade unions that basically to not

:17:21.:17:28.

represent anybody in France. This is a recipe for disaster. The UK

:17:28.:17:33.

has always been synonymous with the fantastic business model were an

:17:33.:17:36.

entrepreneur can succeed and were the trade unions are no safeguard

:17:36.:17:41.

but can be supportive, unlike in France, where they are entirely

:17:41.:17:47.

destructive. There is a big pot. With Brussels and its constant

:17:47.:17:52.

threat of bringing more red tape to the showers and the slow, dangerous

:17:52.:17:55.

drift towards the field French economic system, we have a massive

:17:55.:18:00.

reason to be worried. Last week saw much protest which could only be

:18:00.:18:04.

the tip of the iceberg with cuts coming in and as a businessman I

:18:04.:18:09.

question what impact it will have on UK plc because all of us should

:18:09.:18:13.

focus on three things - getting ourselves out of recession, making

:18:13.:18:16.

sure we create and protect jobs and make sure the country gets back on

:18:17.:18:26.

its front foot. The UK population is desperate for good news, to be

:18:26.:18:31.

able to face the tough economy. But the reality of our day-to-day life

:18:31.:18:35.

is transport chaos, massive strikes, the Olympics, which should have

:18:36.:18:40.

been the greatest news but it's a project four times over budget and

:18:40.:18:44.

the population isn't able to buy tickets. That isn't a recipe to

:18:44.:18:54.
:18:54.:18:56.

motivate and inspire people. We're joined now by PY Gerbeau. We get

:18:56.:19:03.

people to crunch numbers, you do not deserve your reputation. You

:19:03.:19:07.

are actually the European average. We do it very noisily and disturb

:19:07.:19:14.

everybody. They bring sheep and tractors and stop everything.

:19:14.:19:18.

hardly take to the streets. And with so many cuts and so much pain,

:19:18.:19:22.

is it not right and proper in a democracy that people can come out?

:19:22.:19:28.

A exactly, I am not against trade unions. In France they're totally

:19:28.:19:31.

disruptive and I am totally for the liberty of protesting. My problem

:19:31.:19:38.

is when they take people hostage, people cannot go to work.

:19:38.:19:42.

convenient strike is pointless in many people's eyes? Nobody will

:19:42.:19:50.

notice! Were we to like us to go on strike?! We can go on strike we

:19:51.:19:54.

should not have the opportunity to disturb people's lives and take

:19:54.:19:58.

them hostage. That is what my problem is and that is what the

:19:58.:20:03.

entrepreneurial spirit has disappeared and why my colleagues

:20:03.:20:07.

are economic refugees. Alastair Campbell, you were talking the Big

:20:07.:20:13.

Top, is that where we should be going? Convenient strikes? I have

:20:13.:20:17.

been at a few strikes in France and their like social occasions, people

:20:17.:20:22.

bring their children and food and wine and they sit around. They do

:20:22.:20:27.

have a very different attitude. Partly it is about the media, our

:20:27.:20:29.

media is very conditioned to covering strikes from a very

:20:29.:20:34.

negative perspective. Striking is always bad. In France, a lot of

:20:34.:20:39.

people think they are part of the industrial culture. There was more

:20:39.:20:49.

public support. I agree with Alastair. Let David Davies come in

:20:49.:20:54.

on this... I think they chewed strikers to cure advice, until

:20:54.:21:02.

three in the morning. Who noticed? On the issue of striking, it is an

:21:03.:21:07.

important point, is it right, morally, for the public sector to

:21:07.:21:12.

be striking when actually in many areas they are better off than in

:21:12.:21:17.

the private sector? The private sector perhaps complaint that it

:21:17.:21:21.

did it do? To be serious, they should be tougher rules for public

:21:21.:21:26.

sector strikes. If you are in the private sector and go on strike,

:21:26.:21:30.

there is a competitor who will look after your customers and the public

:21:30.:21:33.

sector there is a monopoly, you cannot get to work, you cannot do a

:21:33.:21:40.

job. Whatever that might be. In those circumstances, we have had

:21:40.:21:43.

debate about requiring the majority of the workforce and not just the

:21:43.:21:50.

electorate. Vince Cable is playing footsie with this notion. Should we

:21:50.:21:57.

look at the terms and conditions of the strikes? He is playing footsie,

:21:57.:22:03.

and the balance is right. Thatcher pushed this in a very certain

:22:03.:22:06.

direction and it came back a little bit but this whole idea that the

:22:06.:22:10.

public sector leader these gilded lives with their so-called gold-

:22:10.:22:14.

plated pensions, a teacher who works for several decades doing a

:22:14.:22:18.

bloody good job, they don't end up on these massive pensions that

:22:18.:22:25.

people talk about. They will have a half a million pound pension pot!

:22:25.:22:29.

They will have a decent pension that will retire them over their

:22:29.:22:34.

old age. Better than most people, ordinary workers, will know. That

:22:34.:22:38.

is because of what has happened to the pensions industry but I still

:22:38.:22:42.

think that playing this as a game between the private sector being

:22:42.:22:47.

terribly poor and the public sector... We are running at a time,

:22:47.:22:51.

very quickly, looking at this, is there room for negotiation or are

:22:51.:22:54.

strikes inevitable over the next few months? There should be room

:22:54.:22:58.

for negotiation and advanced in his public support but this is changing.

:22:58.:23:02.

There is a lobby group of traditional workers who are fed up

:23:02.:23:08.

with being taking -- taken hostage. There is a place for protesting.

:23:09.:23:11.

France they always say they want change but when it comes to it,

:23:11.:23:17.

they don't. We are special that we! Thank you very much for being with

:23:17.:23:22.

us. If you ask politicos what the most memorable debates in

:23:22.:23:24.

Parliament have been recently, they'd probably say the ones about

:23:24.:23:27.

wild animals in circuses and voting rights for prisoners. They might

:23:27.:23:30.

never have happened if it hadn't been for the relatively new

:23:30.:23:36.

Backbench Business Committee. You might never have heard of it but

:23:36.:23:38.

it's becoming an increasingly powerful way for backbenchers to

:23:38.:23:45.

get stuff off their chests. Yesterday Adam had a bit of a nose

:23:45.:23:55.
:23:55.:24:01.

around. It is Tuesday at 1pm and MPs are flocking to the regular

:24:01.:24:05.

meeting of the backbench business committee. They will compete in a

:24:05.:24:10.

Dragon's Den style format for a slot to have a debate on the topic

:24:10.:24:14.

of their choice. If they do secure that, it can lead to fireworks...

:24:15.:24:21.

Can be to prisoners should not have the vote. Rapists, drug dealers,

:24:21.:24:28.

frankly it does not matter what the crime is. Given its seriousness.

:24:28.:24:33.

Many of these animals have been so domesticated over so many years, to

:24:33.:24:41.

wrench them out of the life there used to what be more cruel...

:24:41.:24:45.

community was created as part of a package of reforms to plump up the

:24:45.:24:49.

role of backbench MPs. It has just celebrated its first birthday.

:24:49.:24:52.

are to meet congratulate the backbench committee over the last

:24:52.:24:57.

year. It has made a difference in Parliament and I think it is quite

:24:57.:25:01.

right that actually a House of Commons can choose to debate the

:25:01.:25:04.

subject of its choosing on a motion of its choosing at a time of his

:25:04.:25:08.

choosing. That is right and it has discussed a range of issues from

:25:08.:25:14.

the very mundane to the quite obscure. It has been a year of

:25:14.:25:17.

bread and circuses! The backbench business committee is responsible

:25:17.:25:21.

for scheduling debates on 35 days of the year and they would love

:25:22.:25:25.

more. But that would require the Government to seriously relax its

:25:25.:25:31.

grip on the Commons timetable. We can speak now to the chair of the

:25:31.:25:36.

Backbench Business Committee, the Labour MP Natascha Engel. Welcome

:25:36.:25:40.

to the Daily Politics. Are you the most popular woman in Parliament?!

:25:40.:25:45.

I don't think so. It depends on who you talk to. Not with the

:25:45.:25:52.

Government. Backbench MPs are always eager to get their

:25:52.:25:57.

particular hobby-horse aired and they must come to you? Yes, and I

:25:57.:25:59.

think that has been the one innovation that we have introduced

:25:59.:26:04.

that has been successful. We are guided by what backbenchers bring

:26:04.:26:09.

to us rather than a community of it people just making up the bits as

:26:09.:26:15.

we go along. What criteria do you use? Topicality is very important.

:26:15.:26:20.

But we do look at making sure that we do not choose debates that are

:26:20.:26:22.

merely in opposition to the Government, we want to hold the

:26:22.:26:25.

Government to account and there is a subtle difference but it is

:26:25.:26:29.

important. We want cross-party support for debates, we don't just

:26:29.:26:36.

want... We have had this on everything. It isn't an extra

:26:36.:26:40.

vehicle for the opposition? It is for things that Parliament wants to

:26:40.:26:44.

discuss? Absolutely right. Which the executive might not want to

:26:44.:26:48.

discuss? If we look at the phone hacking scandal, for example, if

:26:49.:26:52.

the speaker had not wanted any urgent debate today, that is the

:26:52.:26:55.

sort of thing that the Government may not bring to the floor of the

:26:55.:26:59.

house and we now have a way of bringing a foreword by coming to

:26:59.:27:04.

the backbench committee. You have a Dragon's Den star performers. You

:27:04.:27:08.

have appeared in front of this? What did you have to do? Did you

:27:08.:27:12.

bring any invention? I had to bring Jack Straw! That is a little

:27:12.:27:18.

invention! And I made my case. Why does this matter? It was prisoners

:27:18.:27:23.

votes. Why did this matter? The House disagreed with the government

:27:23.:27:27.

line and so we wanted to make that point. And I think a change the

:27:28.:27:31.

Government's position. We got that you get, we had a huge debate with

:27:31.:27:35.

the huge turnout and it was a great victory on one side and the

:27:35.:27:40.

government had to change its position. Do the party whips try to

:27:40.:27:48.

influence you? Singing, I don't think that is a good idea. They are

:27:48.:27:53.

the wrong party whips! They don't try to influence me and they don't

:27:53.:27:58.

talk to me that often. Something the Labour whips may not like

:27:58.:28:03.

discussed? It has not worked out like that. What happens is that it

:28:03.:28:07.

really is the backbenchers. Sometimes there is a sense that

:28:07.:28:09.

backbenchers have been influenced a little bit by the party whips but

:28:09.:28:15.

we can see through that quickly. So, no, it isn't like that. What is the

:28:15.:28:20.

next did it? We have had all our time taken away and that is a

:28:20.:28:23.

problem, it is time allocated by government. Back to work in the

:28:23.:28:27.

autumn? Absolutely. Thank you for coming in and we will keep an eye

:28:27.:28:34.

on that. And the answer to our Guess the Year competition was 1985.

:28:34.:28:42.

Guess what? I think it was! We will check... We will not pick any

:28:42.:28:46.

Tabloid journalism is in the dock amid more damaging allegations over phone hacking at the News of the World, with claims that former editor Andy Coulson, once David Cameron's right-hand man, authorised payments to police officers. MPs debate the affair in the afternoon and the programme has the latest, talking to the BBC's Nick Robinson and former Conservative Party chairman Norman Fowler.

Who wants to take on David Cameron at PMQs? Last week it was the Speaker. This week, will Ed make more of a mark? The live action begins at midday. Tony Blair's former director of communications Alastair Campbell and the former Shadow Home Secretary David Davis join the programme to give a view on PMQs, phone hacking and the other news of the day.

The programme celebrates the achievements of the House of Commons backbench business committee. It's not as boring as it sounds, as a film tells why. And what do the French do best? PY Gerbeau tells the programme why Britain should not be following suit with more strikes.


Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS