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Conference Special

Andrew Neil and Jo Coburn are in Manchester with the build-up to the leader's speech on the final day of the Conservative party conference.


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Afternoon. Welcome to this Daily Politics special, live from the

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Tory Party conference, here in Manchester, where it's the final

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day of the conference. For the first time, there's a sense of

:00:35.:00:41.

excitement. Last night, the Prime Minister's spin masters briefed the

:00:41.:00:44.

media that David Cameron will use his speech this afternoon to tell

:00:44.:00:48.

us to pay off our credit card debts. The newspapers and broadcasters, as

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you have no doubt seen, duly reported that this morning.

:00:53.:00:59.

That buzz before new revised figures for economic growth

:00:59.:01:03.

downgraded estimates. The British economy has not grown for nine

:01:03.:01:08.

months. So the cry went up, if the economy is flat-lining, what would

:01:08.:01:14.

happen if we all stopped spending to pay off our debts? Do you

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remember Brains in the Thunderbirds? He used to say,

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"Aaahhh! Of Course! Why didn't I think of that before?". Queue the

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spinners to el us that the media have -- tell us that the media miss

:01:27.:01:33.

understood what they were briefed. They have gone back to the drawing

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board to replan what he has to say in a couple of hours. As I say,

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excitement and turmoil. Mr Cameron delivers his speech against the

:01:43.:01:49.

grimmest economic backdrop since the mid-1970s. It turned out the

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recession is deeper than thought. We lost 7prst of our national

:01:53.:01:59.

wealth, not -- 7% of our national wealth, not 6%. Italy's credit

:01:59.:02:04.

rating has been cut again as the eurozone hovers on the brink of

:02:04.:02:09.

recession and crisis. Even Tescos sales have dropped.

:02:09.:02:13.

Last year the Prime Minister told this conference that Britain was

:02:13.:02:17.

out of the danger zone. He won't be repeating that this afternoon. We

:02:17.:02:21.

will look back at the highs and lows of David Cameron's first year

:02:21.:02:31.
:02:31.:02:32.

in advance of his big speech. And that's not all... It east such an

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important -- it's such an important day that even Jo has had to hot-

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foot it to Manchester. I could not stay away. We sent Adam out to test

:02:43.:02:48.

the mood on the coalition. Not everyone likes their partners in

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crime. We sent Quentin Letts out. He has not been a happy bunny in

:02:52.:02:56.

Manchester. We have not been able to take the cameras into the bars

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late at night. The lobbying, oh, I tell you, if the voters and if the

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viewers of Britain knew what went on at these events they would be

:03:06.:03:16.
:03:16.:03:18.

You have to stay tuned for that. It is coming up in the next hour.

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There's more, we'll be back at 2pm this afternoon here on BBC Two with

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live and uninterrupted, at least we hope it will be uninterrupted David

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Cameron's speech. Two of the finest, the Guardian's

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Allegra Stratton and Iain Martin. What do you make of all of this -

:03:43.:03:48.

pay off your credit card, the Prime Minister says? It is chaotic. It

:03:48.:03:53.

may not end up in the speech. If you talk to the Osborne team about

:03:53.:04:01.

why don't you do a tax cut, they will say, "hang on we don't want a

:04:01.:04:05.

recovery that is on the backs of people spending more money,

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consuming more stuff." That was the problem of the economy under Blair

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and Brown. They are economically pure. They think if we start...

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Everyone is talking about the paradox of thift. If you look at

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the figures, people are paying down their credit cards. When they talk

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about paying down the debt, it's the Government that's not paying

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down the debt. It will go from 900 billion to 1.4 trillion. So the

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Government is telling us to pay off its debt while the Government is

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adding 500 billion to its own debt - is that the position we're in?

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Absolutely. They came to this conference needing to lay out a

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serious agenda for growth. They have failed on that. Figures have

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been put out which show if people paid off the credit card debt there

:04:57.:05:05.

would be a slash to growth of 0.25%. I think they didn't think it

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through. They are obsessed with this credit card analogy. They

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think that is how they've got through to the public, this

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otherwise difficult an algae has made it -- analogy. They went too

:05:25.:05:29.

far with this, and pay off your store card thing. They were shocked

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when all the journalists seized on it as the story. So, do you think

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that the two peas -- Ps were bigger than the two Es in the Prime

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Minister's degree. He's very proud of the big E. Let's look at the

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figures. To get the growth rate predicted, they are unlikely to get

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these between now and 2015. Consumer credit rises by almost

:06:00.:06:06.

�600 billion. We add to the credit card. It's unfair to ask you, but I

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don't understand how you reconcile that. You're dealing a Tory

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leadership, modernisers. When they took over they didn't expect it to

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be about economics. It was a settled issue in 2005-2006.

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Sharing the growth? If only there was growth to share. Then the crash

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hits in 2008. They find themselves without a credible policy. They

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could not say, "we told you so." Since then, they have made it up

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since they go along. The reason why I think the politics of this is

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difficult for them, I would suggest, is that you use the word "Chaotic."

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I use the word "Turmoil." Yet the backdrop is economic chaos. It is a

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grim, grim backdrop. What is happening does not encourage

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competence. In 200 when David Cameron was doing his pre--- 2008

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when David Cameron was doing his pre-election speech, and George

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Osborne had to go to London. George Osborne is preoccupied with

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that. I have to say, with this I don't

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think they were pushing, seriously pushing this economic argument.

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They would, I think they were trying to make a point. They didn't

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realise.... This is a conference without many policy stories. They

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didn't realise if you went forward with two journalists then they will

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go for language. Talking about credit cards means they think they

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are connecting with ordinary people. What do you make of this overall

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mood? Where is this conference at now? It's been the most boring Tory

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conference since Robert Peel laid out a manifesto.

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Broadcasting was challenging then. I had to hold a lantern in those

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days. There's a sense, at the end of this season, of politics being

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in a holding patd tern and none has reallyal -- pattern and none has

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really altered. Final thought from you? They are happy. Look at the

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Europe debate, they are happy they have managed to contain that.

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Despite the cat. Despite the cat- flap, which was again chaotic!

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Over to Jo now. Thank you. It's been quite a 12 months for the

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partners of the coalition. This time last year, they might have

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thought that Britain would be on its way to economic recovery.

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Instead the world has been hit by a second economic crisis and the most

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sustained drop in living standards since the 1920's is predicted. They

:09:03.:09:13.
:09:13.:09:18.

are putting a brave face on things. At this time of great national

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challenge, two parties have come together to help make it happen.

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The longer you leave it, the worse it gets. You pay more interest,

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millions of pounds, every single day that goes to the foreign

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Governments we owe. We will withdraw child benefit from

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households with a higher rate tax band. David Cameron says the

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changes to tax benefit are tough but fair? They are tough, I am not

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sure about fair. Will the cuts hurt? They will hurt. The gamble

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from the men from the Treasury is they will also work. We will ensure,

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like every solvent household in the country, that what we buy we can

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afford. That the bills we incur we have the income to meet.

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sprinted through a long, complex list of benefits to be cut. Every

:10:09.:10:19.
:10:19.:10:29.

I am here for people who have been knocked off from benefits. We need

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to move away from the system we've had for 20 years where ministers

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dictate everything that happens in schools.

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Under the new system, everyone will pay back less than what they pay

:10:43.:10:46.

under the current system. The poorest will pay less. The richest

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will pay more. Only the Prime Minister could treble tuition fees

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and then claim it's a better deal for students.

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323. Three-quarters of the Government's

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majority had been wiped out. "Shame", Labour MPs called, but it

:11:07.:11:11.

was too late. We need a social recovery to mend the broken society.

:11:11.:11:14.

To me, that is what the "big society" is all about. I don't see

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how you can build a bigger society when you're harming the very

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organisations at the heart of communities who are delivering that

:11:21.:11:31.
:11:31.:11:42.

We will not delay in taking the action that is necessary.

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Pause, listen to reflect and to improve our NHS modernisation plans.

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Almost every hand raised in protest, almost every nurse here, angry.

:11:54.:11:58.

wanted us to make clear that competition is not there for its

:11:58.:12:08.
:12:08.:12:15.

own sake, but to make life better To be fair to my right honourable

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friend, the, he's only been in his job for a year. He's doing a superb

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:12:31.:12:40.

job. There's plenty more fuel in The Liberal Democrats made up this

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Parliament and they seem to be influencing our school policy,

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health, immigration and abortion. Does the Prime Minister think it's

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time he told the Deputy Prime Minister who is the boss.

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Calm down, dear. Calm down. Listen to the doctor.

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Conservative vote has proved to be more robust. They were doing well

:13:04.:13:14.
:13:14.:13:21.

against their coalition partners, Do you have any regrets?

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With 20/20 hindsight and all that follows I would not have offered

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him the job. I suspect he would not have taken it. If it turns out I've

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been lied to, that would be a moment for a profound apolicy. In

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that event, I can tell you I will not fall short. It's not about

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whether Mr Coulson lied to him. It's about all the warnings the

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Prime Minister ignored. All of us would have what hoped to

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have avoided the use of force. This could have been complied with if

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Gaddafi complied with the resolution. The fact is he didn't.

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Colonel Gaddafi said he would hunt you down like rats, but you showed

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the courage of lions and we salute your courage.

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There are pockets of our society that are not just broken, but

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frankly sick. Europe's economic crisis is

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spreading. A warn from the EU commission. The debt contagion now

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threatens Italy and Spain.... Tonight, at 10pm, another surge in

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unemployment. Britain will stick to the deficit

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plan we have set out. It is the rock of stability on which our

:14:38.:14:48.
:14:48.:14:51.

I am joined now by three backbenchers, Andrea Leadsom, Jacob

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Rees-Mogg and Anna Soubry. Welcome to all of you. Let's reflect on

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that for a moment. Anna, the high point for you over the past year? I

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think the high point about the coalition is it's working well.

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you think id wouldn't? It is so new to have two parties who fought an

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election coming together in the national interests. It has worked

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out really well. It's a difficult time. The economy is go ing to...

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Whatever we do. It is such a big, serious problem. Is it difficult to

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say, on that basis, if you look at some things which were picked in

:15:27.:15:31.

that film, we had the AV referendum, Libya. Yet on this biggest issue,

:15:31.:15:36.

on the economy, on economic growth, David Cameron struggled to find the

:15:36.:15:40.

message, that appears to have been reflected today in some of the

:15:40.:15:43.

speech which have been put out beforehand? The message is right,

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that it's serious and it's going to be wrong. It's going to be long.

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About the message about what people should do? They should pay down

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their debt. They have to restructure, not just the

:15:53.:15:57.

Government, but individuals as well. There was too much debt within the

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system and until debt is repaid, we can't begin to have a well-founded

:16:02.:16:05.

recovery. Is that wise to your constituents, at a time when many

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of them cannot afford to pay off those bills? It is wise to tell

:16:10.:16:14.

people the truth, even if it is an unpalatable one. Won't people think

:16:14.:16:18.

he doesn't get the situation, he being David Cameron. If he is

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telling people to pay off their credit card bills at a time they

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are struggling with family income, he has missed the point, hasn't he?

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I don't think so at all. My constituency bag is full of letters

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from people saying they understand the need for cuts. Yes, the cuts,

:16:33.:16:43.
:16:43.:16:43.

but what about telling individuals? We want to create a better world

:16:44.:16:48.

for our children. We can go on to Don't you want people to spend? The

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message has been that growth is the biggest priority and you are

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telling people to stay at home. That is a contradictory message.

:17:00.:17:03.

is after a fashion. Not everybody is indebted. You want people who

:17:03.:17:11.

can spend to promote growth but equally you do not want people to

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be indebted. As it has been said time and time again, you cannot

:17:18.:17:19.

spend your way up of debt. You have to sort out, balance your books,

:17:19.:17:22.

whether it is your house or books on national books, and then you can

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move on a positive way. They growth figures have been revised downwards,

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albeit slightly, and David Cameron's message is, pull up the

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drawbridge. She relates it to her own constituents. Not everybody is

:17:41.:17:50.

in debt. A lot of people are and they know, because people have been

:17:50.:17:55.

so responsive and have been paying off their credit card debts and we

:17:55.:17:58.

are saying, continued to do that. Those who do who are the good

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people who have taken sensible measures and he will continue to

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spend because they are managing their family finances -- is

:18:06.:18:10.

possibly. That might strike a chord with women because a lot of them

:18:10.:18:14.

deal with family finances. Why is David Cameron not getting through

:18:14.:18:22.

to women voters? I do think we can generalise. -- don't. There are

:18:22.:18:26.

certain sections of Women voters who have fallen away from us. Some

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of those are because unfortunately the cuts have hit women who work in

:18:30.:18:33.

the public sector because traditionally more women work in

:18:33.:18:35.

the public sector than men. Obviously people will be less

:18:35.:18:38.

enamoured with a government they see responsible for them losing

:18:38.:18:44.

their jobs. The policies are hitting women harder. In some

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respects that is true and it is unfortunate. He cannot generalise -

:18:50.:18:56.

- you cannot. David admitted, in terms of trying to attract them up.

:18:56.:19:00.

It has been a great pain. Is it about the policies or is it about

:19:00.:19:10.
:19:10.:19:24.

Do you think he needs to do more to attract the fairer sex? If we have

:19:24.:19:27.

the right policies and they succeed, the people of Britain will support

:19:27.:19:32.

the Conservatives. Having gimmicks, for whatever part of the community,

:19:32.:19:37.

men, women, whatever, is not right. It is setting your course, sticking

:19:37.:19:41.

to it, and getting the economy right. And that his policies. What

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about as a leader? A personal appeal? I think he has great appeal.

:19:49.:19:53.

To men and women. Is he showing the right leadership qualities? There

:19:53.:19:56.

has been debate about the leadership needed now in terms of

:19:56.:20:03.

the economy. He is a fantastic leader. He is a genuinely

:20:03.:20:06.

empathetic Person. He gets on well with people and is honest and

:20:06.:20:12.

forthright. I think he is superbly done. And the media have chosen

:20:12.:20:14.

unfortunately to pick on two incidents in the chamber when at

:20:14.:20:19.

the time we laughed about, men and women. The story the next day was

:20:19.:20:23.

that if -- different to our understanding. And the choices we

:20:23.:20:26.

have made as a party. In spite of the need to get small businesses

:20:26.:20:30.

going again, to get the economy going again, to do as much as we

:20:30.:20:37.

can to get regulation and red tape to enable tables to get going, we

:20:37.:20:47.
:20:47.:20:57.

We are showing a balance of the economies. It is about families.

:20:57.:21:04.

When we came on air, I told you that the Prime Minister's people

:21:04.:21:10.

brief that the speech would tell us to pay of a credit card bills and I

:21:10.:21:14.

suggested this created turmoil and that some finesse of redrafting of

:21:14.:21:24.
:21:24.:21:24.

the speech was going on. I can tell you now, from Nick Robinson, his

:21:24.:21:27.

aides are saying that what she wrote in the papers and heard and

:21:27.:21:34.

the BBC this morning was actually due to "sloppy drafting". And the

:21:34.:21:38.

briefing for the unfinished speech. Whereas in the original draft he

:21:38.:21:42.

was going to tell us that means households, all of us, paying off

:21:42.:21:46.

the credit card and store card bills, he will now have redrafted

:21:46.:21:50.

to say, the only way out of the debt crisis is to deal with your

:21:50.:21:55.

debts. That is why households and none of us are paying off the

:21:56.:22:03.

credit card and store card bills. Already a change. It is hardly a

:22:03.:22:08.

sign of competence he cannot get it right. It is a debt crisis. The

:22:08.:22:12.

answer is not to stack up additional borrowing. And I think

:22:12.:22:16.

the Prime Minister is right to say that we had a crisis in the economy

:22:16.:22:19.

in this country and in other countries, precipitated by debt in

:22:19.:22:25.

this country, not only government, that carried on borrowing and

:22:25.:22:29.

failing to invest when it could have done. And also many households

:22:29.:22:33.

at a cost to a level of debt that was unsustainable. If we have

:22:33.:22:37.

recovery that is sustainable, it will have to be based, as the Prime

:22:37.:22:39.

Minister and Chancellor of Exchequer have made clear, on

:22:39.:22:46.

Investment. And exports. Unsustainable consumer spending --

:22:46.:22:50.

and sustainable consumer spending. You have said the only way out is

:22:50.:22:56.

not to recover more debt. cannot escape for a debt crisis by

:22:56.:23:00.

borrowing more. So why is the Government adding �500 billion to

:23:00.:23:04.

our debt? Because we have a clear debt reduction plan. You don't

:23:04.:23:10.

actually. We have a deficit reduction plan. Part of that means

:23:10.:23:18.

you will add between now and 2015 �500 billion in debt. Which is far

:23:18.:23:22.

less than the Labour Party were planning to do. And it takes us to

:23:23.:23:30.

a place where the annual deficit, it is brought back into balance.

:23:30.:23:34.

And that his watch... From the point of view of funding debt, you

:23:34.:23:38.

have to be in a position where you are not adding to it from annual

:23:38.:23:42.

deficits at a place that is unsustainable. You have told us you

:23:42.:23:47.

cannot get out of a debt crisis by adding to our debts. That is what

:23:47.:23:51.

you're telling individuals. You are part of a government that is adding

:23:51.:24:00.

half a trillion pounds to our debt! both statements cannot be right.

:24:00.:24:03.

inherited a situation which nothing meal out debt to balloon, but the

:24:03.:24:07.

deficit to reach a place where literally we were borrowing more

:24:07.:24:12.

for what did he than Greece. We have to come to a place, and

:24:12.:24:16.

readmitted after the election, through the deficit reduction plan,

:24:16.:24:19.

how we were going to take an unsustainable deficit on the

:24:19.:24:24.

Government's finances to a point were the deficit has been

:24:24.:24:34.
:24:34.:25:08.

If you have household debt, you should not max out on credit cards

:25:08.:25:13.

butchered a stop you have to live within your means. When people's

:25:13.:25:17.

pay is not keeping price with rising prices, when taxes are

:25:17.:25:23.

rising, particularly in the middle income levels, where people are put

:25:23.:25:29.

into the 40% tax brackets, you are taking obey their child benefit.

:25:29.:25:33.

And you are lecturing them to pay off their credit card bills? I am

:25:33.:25:37.

not lecturing them. All of us are in a position where we have to live

:25:37.:25:43.

within our means. We'll have occasions when we borrow to invest.

:25:43.:25:47.

We have mortgages. Nobody suggests that we shouldn't have borrowing

:25:47.:25:53.

where it makes sense. The housing market is a great example. If you

:25:53.:25:57.

get to a place where you are borrowing at levels that are

:25:57.:26:00.

completely unsustainable and not related to the security in your

:26:00.:26:06.

house, it cannot carry on. The same is true for stalked card debts and

:26:06.:26:11.

credit cards. Is it part of the Government's economic policy, then,

:26:12.:26:16.

that consumer debt should come down? It is the Government's policy

:26:16.:26:22.

to ensure sustainable recovery. it part of the Government policy

:26:22.:26:30.

that, as we'll get rid of this debt bubble, that consumer debts have to

:26:30.:26:34.

be reduced? I don't believe the Government has any target for

:26:34.:26:40.

consumer debt. He had been telling us to get rid of our credit card

:26:40.:26:43.

debts. It is clear that whether it is a household or the country, we

:26:44.:26:48.

cannot get out of the debt crisis by expanding our debt. The issue is,

:26:48.:26:58.
:26:58.:26:59.

each of us, what we have to do is move to a more sustainable path. It

:26:59.:27:08.

is that export and competitiveness. The Prime Minister will say this

:27:08.:27:11.

afternoon the only way out of the debt crisis is to deal with your

:27:11.:27:17.

debts. This is the new draft. That is why households are paying off

:27:17.:27:24.

credit card bills. That is the Government policy. It is fact.

:27:24.:27:28.

is all of your growth forecast assumes that consumer debt will

:27:28.:27:35.

rise by �600 billion between now and 2015? The Treasury forecasts

:27:35.:27:38.

are their estimation, their understanding of what they

:27:38.:27:44.

anticipate will happen. The basis of your gross factors, your growth

:27:44.:27:49.

projections, assumed consumer debt will rise by �600 billion, not �400

:27:49.:27:56.

billion? Do you know what you're doing? Absolutely. It is shifting

:27:56.:28:01.

from an economic situation which is unsustainable because it is based

:28:01.:28:04.

on rising government debt and rising household debt that was not

:28:04.:28:09.

cake will have been repaid to a position where it is. There's

:28:09.:28:13.

nothing wrong with people financing themselves through borrowing, but

:28:13.:28:19.

if they do so on a sustainable basis. Are you aware that your

:28:19.:28:24.

government's own projections show household debt rising in the next

:28:24.:28:30.

three years? I remember the budget and other components of GDP for the

:28:30.:28:37.

future, and there are estimates of what level of investment and

:28:37.:28:41.

expenditure by consumers and government. Are you aware household

:28:41.:28:47.

debt is projected to rise in order to meet your future growth

:28:47.:28:53.

prospects? It is not to meet them. When you calculate what they

:28:53.:28:59.

anticipate the level of GDP is, level of consumer credit is a

:28:59.:29:04.

component of that. It is not we are targeting for consumers to borrow a

:29:04.:29:10.

given level of money. It is about individuals, households, the

:29:10.:29:13.

Government, moving from unsustainable debts as a basis for

:29:13.:29:19.

economic recovery to one that is sustainable. You have baffled me.

:29:19.:29:23.

Should consumer debt rise or fall? Individual consumer debt is a

:29:23.:29:27.

matter for individual households. The Government's job is to make

:29:27.:29:31.

sure but on behalf of the taxpayers and public we do not allow our

:29:31.:29:33.

economy to the damage in the way Labour did by unsustainable

:29:33.:29:42.

borrowing. I think we had better The Tories and their coalition

:29:42.:29:46.

partners, the Lib Dems, happiness thick as thieves for over a year.

:29:46.:29:56.
:29:56.:29:56.

He has benefited the most on the These are the last minutes of the

:29:56.:30:03.

conference. Which party has benefit this funding in the coalition? --

:30:03.:30:09.

which parted has benefited the most from the coalition? It looks as

:30:09.:30:15.

though neither of them. They got power for the first time. And if

:30:15.:30:20.

they play it right, they can show they are a party that is worthy of

:30:20.:30:26.

having power given to them. Is it to the detriment of you guys?

:30:26.:30:36.
:30:36.:30:45.

I think we've, I shouldn't say get away with, a lot of our policies.

:30:45.:30:51.

Why have you gone for that? Well, I think they've ruined quite a lot of

:30:51.:30:57.

Tory policies. Such as? Well, I think that we'd be harsher on

:30:57.:31:02.

Europe, for one thing and the economy as welt. You worked very

:31:02.:31:06.

hard for many years to have a Conservative Government and

:31:06.:31:09.

Conservative policies and the Liberal Democrats are, some of

:31:09.:31:14.

their policies are quite ridiculous. Which party has done best out of

:31:14.:31:20.

the coalition? Why would you say that? Because they have a very

:31:21.:31:25.

small size of the vote and a very large slice of the influence and

:31:25.:31:30.

it's not right. I have an admiration for them. Of course they

:31:30.:31:35.

are wrong on almost everything. That's because they are Liberal

:31:35.:31:39.

Democrats. There is a chaos theory answer to this.... No, we simply

:31:39.:31:43.

cannot find out, I am afraid. We both have benefits but not nearly

:31:44.:31:48.

as much as the country. The liberals didn't want it. They

:31:48.:31:52.

are scared stiff of it. They don't know what to do with it. I think

:31:52.:31:56.

the Liberal Democrats should be grateful to have the chance of

:31:56.:32:03.

having some junior ministerial positions. Whoops!

:32:03.:32:09.

Take two! The sooner we can ditch them, the better. How about you?

:32:09.:32:15.

agree. Why do you say that? Because they

:32:15.:32:18.

didn't have any profile previously. We have been propped up by the

:32:18.:32:20.

Liberal Democrats who have done very well themselves. Without the

:32:20.:32:25.

Liberal Democrats we would not have got anything. We have some of our

:32:25.:32:35.
:32:35.:32:40.

manifesto put in. It is not ideal, We're doing a poll for The Daily

:32:40.:32:44.

Politics.... No Andrew Mitchell for Well, the balls have been flying

:32:44.:32:49.

thick and fast. Let's see where they have been flying to. After an

:32:50.:32:54.

early start, where people were scathing about the Lib Dems, it

:32:54.:33:04.
:33:04.:33:05.

seems now the Tories think they are getting the most benefit.

:33:05.:33:11.

Have you had a lot of liberal people in? No Lib Dems here. Why

:33:11.:33:16.

are you so surprised when you see that result? I have to say, the

:33:16.:33:20.

liberal tail is wagging the Conservative dog. How these guys

:33:20.:33:25.

who are in Government, with their red boxes and enjoying stuff

:33:25.:33:29.

enormously, let's face it, hardly anyone voted for them. They must

:33:29.:33:33.

have done better out of it than we have. The bags are empty. Look

:33:33.:33:39.

where they have gone. The majority of Tory delegates think they are

:33:39.:33:43.

getting the benefit. A fair few thought the Lib Dems were and they

:33:43.:33:53.
:33:53.:33:54.

were very mean about them. A clear... He started to talk before

:33:54.:34:04.
:34:04.:34:04.

I introduced him. Brian Binley, does it surprise you

:34:04.:34:09.

to see that? I think the British people didn't want another election.

:34:09.:34:13.

They certainly didn't want Gordon Brown. We have a lot of

:34:13.:34:16.

Conservative policy on the move. There's a problem with some

:34:16.:34:24.

activists who have a perception, not only through rhetoric, but

:34:24.:34:29.

through activity that the tail wags the dog a little too much. We hear

:34:29.:34:34.

a lot from MPs, Conservative MPs, in the House, and also from

:34:34.:34:39.

activists here, who feel they have too much influence, bearing in mind

:34:39.:34:44.

they are far fewer in number. you are in the House, you see a lot

:34:44.:34:51.

of the rhetoric traded back and forth across the debating chamber.

:34:51.:34:54.

Let's think about policies, specifically. We heard somebody

:34:54.:35:01.

there saying "We would have been harsh on Europe, got rid of the 50p

:35:01.:35:08.

tax rate." Do you think these have been real down-sides for the

:35:08.:35:12.

Conservatives and coalition or not? I doubt we would have gained more

:35:12.:35:17.

from powers from Europe. The problem has been the eurozone. That

:35:17.:35:20.

will give us potentially an opportunity. Do you characterise

:35:20.:35:24.

the coalition as a necessary evil or a positive collaboration? It has

:35:24.:35:28.

been good for British politics and good for the nation generally. I

:35:28.:35:34.

would disagree a little with Jesse. We would have been more robust on

:35:34.:35:39.

Europe. How? I think the words we would have used. It would not have

:35:39.:35:44.

been policy. You could not have brought back any powers? You only

:35:44.:35:49.

have to see how some Conservatives voted, particularly on support for

:35:49.:35:53.

the eurozone to know that, I think, we would have been less forthcoming

:35:53.:35:57.

in that respect. George has put on a brave face. A lot of the

:35:57.:36:01.

Conservative Party would have wanted us to have been less

:36:01.:36:05.

forthcoming. The NHS Bill, that's been watered down somewhat because

:36:05.:36:09.

of the liberal presence. I think that we would have had a boulder

:36:09.:36:13.

Bill, which I think would have been more useful to the patients of this

:36:13.:36:18.

country. Do you agree with that? would have had a boulder Bill on

:36:18.:36:24.

the NHS. On the eurozone I don't think much would have changed. The

:36:24.:36:28.

eurozone has continued to be worse. We are massively implicated even

:36:28.:36:35.

though we have not signed 7 to more money over and -- that was of and

:36:35.:36:39.

above pledged at the time. Are you hoping it will be a majority?

:36:39.:36:41.

Conservative. I think we should have a Conservative Party leading

:36:41.:36:44.

next time around. The Conservative Party is a National Party. What

:36:44.:36:48.

we're seeing here is a decision by the delegates here to reflect the

:36:48.:36:53.

nation's interest in the form of coalition. That's why they are

:36:53.:36:56.

comfortable with coalition. One of the tensions reflected by Nick

:36:56.:37:00.

Clegg's speech, he said, clearly, the Human Rights Act is here to

:37:00.:37:09.

stay. Is it? No. Not in its present form. He says it is. You could have

:37:09.:37:13.

worries and then look at repeal. Repeal has a lot of issues. We

:37:13.:37:17.

would be bound by the.... Would you like to see it. Do you think Nick

:37:17.:37:24.

Clegg is wrong? I'm one of the few people who think the Human Rights

:37:24.:37:30.

Act is an impeccable piece of legislation. It was brought into

:37:30.:37:35.

law by Winston Churchill. The Human Rights Convention was

:37:35.:37:39.

brought into effect, not the act, which was brought into effect by

:37:39.:37:44.

Tony Blair. As you know, Brian, they are identical word for word.

:37:44.:37:48.

It's the same language. What about the British Bill of Rights. That

:37:48.:37:52.

will not happen, will it? interesting thing will be how it

:37:52.:37:55.

will be able to take the right tradition that the Conservatives

:37:55.:38:00.

have supported of basic freedoms for human beings and through into a

:38:00.:38:04.

new instrument. Take a badge before you go, please. I know you like all

:38:04.:38:11.

of them, "Don't panic" "love the coalition." Who is your favourite

:38:11.:38:17.

Liberal Democrats? I like Mark Hunter. I am not spoilt for choice.

:38:17.:38:25.

I like Martin Horwood. He is my neighbour in Cheltenham. We will go

:38:25.:38:29.

back to the conference floor where William Hague has been speaking.

:38:29.:38:33.

are putting forward the real growth agenda, which is what Europe

:38:33.:38:39.

desperately needs. It does not need any more institutions, costly

:38:39.:38:43.

regulations, cumbersome directives or a single more bureaucrat. It

:38:43.:38:49.

needs burdens on businesses, lifted the expansion of the single market

:38:49.:38:56.

and a passionate belief in the benefits of trade. It is now

:38:56.:39:01.

acknowledged that when we said that joining the euro would be a

:39:01.:39:07.

disaster for Britain, we were right. When we said.... APPLAUSE

:39:07.:39:11.

When we said that Labour should not have let us get sucked into the

:39:11.:39:15.

eurozone bail outs, we were right. Now, thanks to David Cameron,

:39:15.:39:21.

European bail outs for Greece will not call on the British taxpayer.

:39:21.:39:27.

When we said... APPLAUSE When we said the costs of the EU

:39:27.:39:31.

budget were out of control, we were right. Now, we have had

:39:31.:39:34.

unprecedented success in bringing it under control.

:39:34.:39:38.

When we said that no more areas of power should go to the EU, we were

:39:38.:39:47.

right. Now, thanks to the European Union Act, 2011, bylaw, that cannot

:39:47.:39:51.

happen without a referendum in this country.

:39:51.:39:59.

APPLAUSE. And we are just as right that the European Union has more

:39:59.:40:03.

power in our national life than it should have.

:40:03.:40:07.

I belief as strongly as I ever have that when the right moments come

:40:08.:40:10.

this party should set out to reduce that power.

:40:10.:40:20.
:40:20.:40:20.

APPLAUSE 14 years ago I predicted the

:40:20.:40:25.

eurozone would become a burning building with no exits. But because

:40:25.:40:29.

the eurozone countries are our friends and neighbours, because our

:40:29.:40:32.

prosperity and financial stability is tide to theirs, we must now

:40:32.:40:37.

support them in their efforts to quench the flames.

:40:37.:40:41.

That was William Hague. The foreign affairs theme continued on the

:40:41.:40:44.

conference floor with a speech from the Defence Secretary, Liam Fox.

:40:44.:40:49.

There are those in Europe who are calling for the EU to take a

:40:50.:40:56.

greater role in Europe's security. Let me tell you, Europe already has

:40:56.:41:00.

a guarantor of its defence. It's called NATO.

:41:00.:41:05.

It is nonsense to duplicate and divert from NATO at a time when

:41:05.:41:10.

resources are scarce. The last thing we need is more EU

:41:10.:41:19.

bureaucracy. APPLAUSE

:41:19.:41:24.

You know, many of those calling for deeper EU defence integration are

:41:24.:41:29.

already failing to fulfil the commitments they have made to NATO.

:41:29.:41:34.

My message to them is clear: You cannot expect to have the insurance

:41:34.:41:39.

policy, but ask oh thisers to pay the premiums for u.

:41:39.:41:46.

-- for you. APPLAUSE

:41:46.:41:50.

NATO must maintain its primacy in European defence. NATO is the

:41:50.:41:55.

alliance that keeps the United States in Europe and that is not a

:41:55.:42:02.

luxury, it is a necessity. APPLAUSE

:42:02.:42:07.

At a time when we are reducing the number of military headquarters in

:42:07.:42:12.

NATO, where I shall be this afternoon, it is not the time to

:42:12.:42:17.

start increasing them in the European Union. That is why William

:42:17.:42:21.

Hague vetoed the long-term Euro- aspiration of creating a permanent

:42:21.:42:25.

EU military headquarters. APPLAUSE

:42:25.:42:29.

That was the Secretary of State for defence. He'd just had his 50th

:42:29.:42:34.

birthday. Mrs Thatcher turned up. That is an achiefment. We don't do

:42:34.:42:38.

titles on this programme. We have a man with one though, he is

:42:38.:42:42.

International Development Secretary, he is Andrew Mitchell. Welcome back

:42:42.:42:46.

to The Daily Politics. In charge of foreign aid,s we used to call it,

:42:46.:42:50.

and you are increasing the budget, spending billions more. What's it

:42:50.:42:54.

like to be at a Tory conference in charge of the least popular policy

:42:54.:42:59.

of your party? Well, I think it's getting better understood and

:42:59.:43:03.

increasingly popular. Some of the polling suggests that is the case.

:43:03.:43:07.

I've had the chance to make a speech at the conference on Sunday,

:43:07.:43:12.

where I set out the reasons for this, that even in these extremely

:43:12.:43:16.

difficult economic times we have a plan that stands by commitments on

:43:16.:43:20.

development. We do this because it's the right thing to do and very

:43:20.:43:24.

much in our national interest. you accept that there could be

:43:24.:43:27.

circumstances where you couldn't keep to that commitment? Well, it

:43:27.:43:32.

is a commitment on the size of the national cake. It is not a fixed

:43:32.:43:34.

figure. I think that is the right

:43:34.:43:38.

commitment to make. We have set out very clearly,

:43:38.:43:42.

George Osborne set it out earlier this year, very clearly what our

:43:42.:43:46.

spending plans are. We have every intention of sticking to those

:43:46.:43:49.

plans. If the economy goes into recession, which is now a

:43:49.:43:52.

possibility, you don't have to blame the Government for that -

:43:52.:43:57.

look at events abroad, if the eurozone goes into meltdown,

:43:57.:44:01.

unemployment starts to soar, living standards collapse more. Will you

:44:01.:44:06.

still continue with our commitment to spend billions on overseas aid?

:44:06.:44:08.

We are clear that is the case because it is the right thing and

:44:09.:44:12.

you see British support for that and the -- in the response across

:44:12.:44:16.

Britain to the disaster, for example in the Horn of Africa at

:44:16.:44:19.

the moment, where times are straightened than in the past,

:44:19.:44:23.

people are more generous. It is part of the British character, I

:44:23.:44:26.

think. It is also very important for our national security. This

:44:26.:44:30.

budget goes to ensure that we are more secure. Our security does not

:44:30.:44:35.

only gained by guns and bullets, but by training the police in

:44:35.:44:38.

Afghanistan, building up Government structures in the Middle East,

:44:38.:44:42.

getting girls into schools in the Horn of Africa. Those things, as

:44:42.:44:46.

well as guns and bullets help protect our security. It is hard to

:44:46.:44:51.

prove any of it. You boost about spending money in schools in

:44:51.:44:56.

Pakistan. You spend a fraction of what the Saudis spend in Pakistan.

:44:56.:44:59.

Those schools are different from the ones you are spending on. That

:44:59.:45:05.

bit is true, isn't it? The ma dra is as. Which is what the Saudis pay

:45:05.:45:10.

for. Some are doing extremely good work at teaching kids the basics of

:45:10.:45:16.

life. A lot are Islamic fundamentalist hot beds. I have

:45:16.:45:20.

seen evidence that some of them are doing good work at teaching

:45:20.:45:25.

children to read, write and count well. What we're seeking to do is

:45:25.:45:29.

get four million children into school over the next four years in

:45:29.:45:34.

Pakistan. I cannot think anything more that would frustrate the

:45:34.:45:42.

terrorists' aims than having a well educated population. The bombers on

:45:42.:45:46.

9/11 were well educated? That is not the point. They are reacting to

:45:46.:45:49.

some of the very extreme causes of poverty that they see in their own

:45:49.:45:56.

country. What we know is doing development upstream in countries

:45:56.:46:01.

like Somalia and Afghanistan is more effective at tackling the

:46:01.:46:06.

causes of before they spread out, where you have to handle the

:46:06.:46:16.

Do you accept that 70% of the people he would rather protect the

:46:16.:46:24.

collapse in police numbers and finance your department's budget?

:46:24.:46:27.

think the number of people in the Conservative Party who have

:46:27.:46:31.

reservations about the development budget is falling all the time. The

:46:31.:46:34.

reason is that we are getting across this Plaid about it being

:46:34.:46:38.

the right thing to do and in our national interest. We have made our

:46:38.:46:44.

plans which have secured international recognition and

:46:44.:46:47.

respect, which is why we have German rates of interest, although

:46:47.:46:51.

we have Greek levels of debt, and those plans include giving strong

:46:51.:46:54.

support to the police, making sure the front line is preserved, and

:46:54.:46:58.

making sure we have strong defence forces for this country. That was

:46:58.:47:04.

the result of the SDR last year. And also standing by hour of

:47:04.:47:07.

international commitments and not balancing out books on the poorest

:47:07.:47:13.

people. You are tax in the country highly in order to finance things

:47:13.:47:18.

like your department -- you're taxing. Living standards are being

:47:18.:47:23.

squeezed as never before. Not as 1925 according to the Governor of

:47:23.:47:28.

the Bank of England. And yet the Tories are urging hard-pressed

:47:28.:47:33.

people to spend even more in your area, give more of their own money.

:47:33.:47:40.

Why are you doing that? If there are the billions more out of their

:47:40.:47:43.

tax when they are hurting, why do they then have to dig into their

:47:43.:47:50.

pockets even deeper? If you have seen the broadcast, when we see it,

:47:50.:47:58.

it is a very good use of a party political broadcast. The is a bunch

:47:58.:48:03.

of rich people asking ordinary people to give money. Every which

:48:03.:48:09.

are one has contributed. They can afford it. It is creative use of a

:48:09.:48:14.

political broadcast. If you look at Comic Relief for the last two years,

:48:14.:48:18.

although each year the economy has got more difficult, people have

:48:18.:48:23.

been more generous. It is part of the British DNA. Should people, if

:48:23.:48:27.

they have spare cash, should they use it to give money in the way you

:48:27.:48:37.
:48:37.:48:37.

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 43 seconds

:48:37.:49:21.

Of the future, that is the slogan. William Hague started it off last

:49:21.:49:26.

year. Last year we had a tricky time with the actor must stop the

:49:26.:49:30.

him sharing a bedroom with his special adviser. This year the

:49:30.:49:39.

relationship is back on. And now we embark on a difficult task, to take

:49:39.:49:47.

the country that Gordon Brown and all those who run the Labour Party

:49:47.:49:53.

had their hands on for 13 years is to make it strong again. And that

:49:53.:50:03.
:50:03.:50:35.

And there he with, rare footage showed him with a backbencher.

:50:35.:50:45.
:50:45.:50:52.

You can see consistentsy. It will be welcomed by all those

:50:52.:50:59.

people in the country. Downing Street talking to backbenchers is

:50:59.:51:02.

not the only arm-bending that goes on at this conference. Look at

:51:02.:51:07.

this! That's the sort of thing that the

:51:07.:51:11.

Treasury does to statistics. Let's be honest, all politicians

:51:11.:51:19.

treem of standing here, at -- dream of standing here, at the door of

:51:19.:51:22.

Number Ten. The Mayor of London gave his routine speech, so routine

:51:22.:51:27.

that parts were heated from last year. The delegates liked him and

:51:27.:51:31.

he goes down very well. Is he really credible for this place? I'm

:51:31.:51:37.

not convinced. We are insisting on homes that are

:51:37.:51:41.

big enough for families with children and rooms big enough for

:51:41.:51:47.

human beings, rather than hobbits. None of us, as you may have noticed,

:51:47.:51:52.

none of us are getting any smaller. Boris lacks the seriousness of

:51:53.:51:57.

George Osborne. The Chancellor gave a speech about deficit reduction.

:51:57.:52:03.

It did have that pattern of gravity. His speech did not lift off.

:52:03.:52:09.

The activists gairve him respebgtdable applause -- gave him

:52:09.:52:18.

5th 4th May are in a debt crisis will stop you cannot borrow your

:52:18.:52:22.

way out of debt. And so we reached the end, and I cannot say I am

:52:22.:52:29.

sorry. There has been a decadence Quercus. We have not taken the

:52:29.:52:32.

cameras into that bars. But the drinking has been sybaritic. The

:52:32.:52:38.

lobbying by, if the voters and viewers of Britain knew what went

:52:38.:52:44.

on at these events, they would be horrified!

:52:44.:52:48.

We found three delegates. Don Valley Color of Pete Babri and

:52:48.:52:55.

Theodora Clark. Where are the rule of delegates? The Tory grass roots?

:52:55.:53:00.

Are you one of them? Yes I am for a stop I am not a researcher and I do

:53:00.:53:05.

not work for an MP but I still has a parliamentary candidate last year.

:53:05.:53:09.

There are some good financial reasons why a lot of people from

:53:09.:53:13.

the grassroots level do not come first but it is quite expensive to

:53:13.:53:17.

come to this conference, I feel for a star or so you agree that it is

:53:17.:53:22.

not the same that it has been in previous years? Very much so. It

:53:22.:53:26.

would be good if we could suggest that we have a single day passes.

:53:26.:53:31.

Rather than having to come though the entire period. To me you agree?

:53:31.:53:38.

Has it been hijacked by lobby and its? I wouldn't say so. I would say

:53:38.:53:42.

I am so the cut Tory activist for a stop I think that is representative

:53:42.:53:48.

of a whole lot of people who are here. It would you like to hear

:53:48.:53:58.
:53:58.:54:04.

from the speech? It will be a He must also tell the economy and

:54:04.:54:08.

show he is the right leader to work it out. Is it the right message,

:54:08.:54:15.

asking people to pay off their bills? We do it? How many people

:54:15.:54:21.

can genuinely pay-off their bills? You are still struggling, even

:54:21.:54:27.

though interest rates alone. When I do not we come something -- why do

:54:27.:54:33.

not come up with something inevitable? A had not have a credit

:54:33.:54:38.

card before stuck -- I do not have. The importance of this is, and part

:54:39.:54:42.

of conference is not just talking to activists, and giving a message

:54:42.:54:49.

to the whole country. There is an important message in, reducing your

:54:49.:54:57.

debt, in respecting the weight with the -- in respect of the way we

:54:57.:55:07.
:55:07.:55:11.

We are joined to -- by our BBC political editor, Nick Robinson for

:55:11.:55:16.

a stop there seems to be term there, Caersws, shambles, well over the

:55:16.:55:25.

strutting -- there seems to the turmoil, chaos. The Prime Minister

:55:25.:55:30.

and his aides have read and heard her players suggesting he wants

:55:30.:55:38.

people to pay off their credit card. It implies he will stand up there

:55:38.:55:47.

and say I cannot stop spending for a stop which would be catastrophic

:55:47.:55:57.
:55:57.:56:27.

first stop what is being said is, Look, mistakes are made in

:56:27.:56:29.

briefings and sometimes you say something and you realise that is

:56:29.:56:34.

not going the way we thought it would be. We have to change course,

:56:34.:56:38.

and that is what has happened here. The problem, I would suggest, for

:56:38.:56:43.

them, is it is hard... I cannot remember covering a party

:56:43.:56:50.

conference when the economic backdrop was grimmer, it is grimmer

:56:50.:56:54.

than the Lehman Brothers' backdrop. You have to go back to 1968 to get

:56:54.:56:59.

a grimmer one. Voters will be looking for a sense of competence

:56:59.:57:07.

and they know what a're doing and saying. It is hard. He's walking a

:57:07.:57:11.

tightrope. On one hand he wants - that is the message they wanted -

:57:11.:57:16.

he wants a message of hope and optimism, saying this is what the

:57:16.:57:21.

future could look like. He does not want to be accused of having

:57:21.:57:25.

hopelessly in denial or unrealistic. That was the tightrope they were

:57:25.:57:29.

focusing on staying on. He has fallen on something different,

:57:29.:57:33.

which is to do with economic competence. I tell you why this has

:57:33.:57:38.

happened, which is, and it happened before the last election - the

:57:38.:57:41.

truth is, politicians have deliberately blurred the issue of

:57:42.:57:46.

debt and the deficit. Andrew Lansley sitting in that

:57:46.:57:50.

chair.... Why? When they do market research - people understand the

:57:51.:57:55.

notion of debt and they fear it and don't like it. When the

:57:56.:58:00.

Conservatives attacked Gordon Brown they always use the word "debt." He

:58:00.:58:04.

would say "our debt is not particularly big." The argument was

:58:04.:58:09.

about the deficit. In other words, the debt at which -- the rate at

:58:09.:58:13.

which the debt is getting bigger. By using household parallels, which

:58:13.:58:23.
:58:23.:58:24.

are not accurate.... Gets them into trouble. It is your birthday. This

:58:24.:58:30.

will help you pay off the Nic Robinson credit card bill. Would

:58:30.:58:36.

you like to open it? Have you seen this expensive wrapping paper?

:58:36.:58:42.

Quick, we're running out of time. Thank you very much. A United scarf.

:58:42.:58:47.

I was at Old Trafford on Saturday. 2-0 against Norwich. Very, very

:58:47.:58:53.