12/10/2011 Daily Politics


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12/10/2011

Can Liam Fox survive the drip-drip of allegations? The studio guests are Transport Secretary Philip Hammond and shadow health secretary Andy Burnham.


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Good morning folks. Welcome to the Daily Politics. Coling up in the

:00:27.:00:31.

next -- coming up in the next 90 minutes, more questions for Liam

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Fox about his personal life and the role of his friend, Adam Werritty.

:00:35.:00:39.

Can the Defence Secretary survive this drip, drip, drip of

:00:40.:00:45.

allegations? young people who are feeling the

:00:45.:00:49.

brunt. We will look at why the so- called baby busters face an

:00:49.:00:52.

uncertain future. The Human Rights Act is a threat to

:00:52.:00:58.

the British way of life. But is it all a bit afcat flap?

:00:58.:01:01.

-- of a cat flap. And have you ever one of these

:01:01.:01:04.

through the post? Well, the Government could be making it

:01:04.:01:08.

easier for private parking operators to fin you. We will --

:01:08.:01:15.

fine you. We will ask the Transport Why indeed? It is the question of

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the day. Coming soon!

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Coming up in the next 90 minutes, with us for the duration, the newly

:01:24.:01:27.

appointed Shadow Health Secretary, Andy Burnham and arriving at high-

:01:27.:01:32.

speed in his electric car, he is on time for one, the Transport

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Secretary, Philip Hammond. Papers are full of the details of

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Adam Werritty. The stories focus on the nature of Mr Mr Werritty's role

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and he accompanied the minister on trips.

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There are claims in the Sun newspaper that Conservative

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spokesman misled journalists about the details of a break break-in at

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Liam Fox's London flat. At the time it was reported from Fox was alone

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when it was broken into. It emerges now and has been confirmed by Mr

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Fox himself today that he had a male friend staying in his spare

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room that evening. He denies it was Adam Werritty and he rejects any

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suggestion that he sought to mislead the police about the

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incident. Reporters caught up with him as he left London for a meeting

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in Paris this morning. REPORTER: Should you resign?

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should carry on doing the job that I'm meant to do, the job I'm

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capable of doing. REPORTER: Don't the people deserve

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answers to questions, Dr Fox? That's why we have an inquiry set-

:02:48.:02:58.
:02:58.:03:02.

Dr Fox, how was Adam Werritty paid? Dr Fox this morning. Philip Hammond,

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who was funding Adam Werritty? don't know. I've read the same

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speculation in the Press that you have done, but the Cabinet

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Secretary is conducting an inquiry. The Prime Minister made it clear he

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wants to know the facts and that inquiry will deliver him those

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facts. Do we have the right to know who

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was funding Mr Werritty? I think given the circumstances, we do need

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to understand exactly what was happening, exactly how Mr Werritty

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was funding his lifestyle and his trips and I'm sure that that will

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come out in the course of the work that the Cabinet Secretary is doing.

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And if he refuses to do so, is that not fatal for Dr Fox?

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You're speculating here. My understanding is that Liam Fox and

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Adam Werritty are collaborating fully with the inquiry that the

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Permanent Secretary and the Cabinet Secretary... That's not my

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understanding, Mr Hammond. I had spoken to someone who had spoken to

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Mr Werritty as you know. He hasn't spoken himself, but I spoke to

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someone last night and he made it clear to him he would not give the

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names of those private individuals who have been funding him. Well,

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look we're speculating now. No, no, that's not speculation.

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We're speculating as to what is or isn't going to be disclosed in the

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course of this investigation. Let me put it to you again. If the

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information about who is funding Mr Werritty is not given by him, if he

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refuses, is that fatal? Well, the Cabinet Secretary will make his

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report. If his report indicates to the Prime Minister that important

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pieces of information have been withheld, that will be a factor

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that the Prime Minister will weigh- in making his decision.

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Do you accept that someone who seems to be travelling around the

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world with the Defence Secretary, who has constant access to the

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Defence Secretary in his office here, who fixes up meetings for the

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Defence Secretary, we have a right, do we not, in a democracy to know

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who is bankrolling that individual. It maybe innocent. It may not be,

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but the principle is we have a right, agreed? Well, Adam Werritty

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clearly is a friend of Liam Fox. He met up with Liam Fox when he has

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been abroad on official missions. I don't think it is right to say he

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travelled with him. He met up with him.

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On 18 occasions? He met up with him. He might not have been on the same

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plane, but he must know where he is going.

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He travelled separately to a destination and clearly, one of the

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questions of legitimate public interest is how Adam Werritty's

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business affairs work and whether they are in anyway linked to what

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Dr Fox does and Dr Fox was very clear about this in his statement

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in the House of Commons yesterday. Well, he wasn't clear. When asked

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about the finances was that Mr Werritty was quote "not dependant

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on any transactional behaviour to maintain his income." What does

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that mean in English? He was not benefiting financially from any of

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these meetings. I would understand it as he wasn't being paid per job,

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but he could have been on a retainer? As opposed to a

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transactional piece of income? Andrew, you are trying to second-

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guess the questions that I'm quite sure the Cabinet Secretary will be

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asking and will be reporting to the Prime Minister on. These are the

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things that he will be wanting to get to the bottom of. Liam Fox has

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admitted that he has made mistakes in allowing his personal

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relationship to get too close to his professional duties. The

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Cabinet Secretary has to confirm to the Prime Minister that there has

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been no impropriety. You say that Liam Fox has been open

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and honest, but the BBC put 17 questions to the Defence Secretary

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such as if Mr Werritty isn't and never has been an adviser, why was

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it necessary for him to sit in on political meetings abroad, such as

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Washington, May, 2011. No answer. Well, I suspect... Does he have to

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answer that? I don't think he has to answer it to the BBC. The

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questions have to be answered in the context of the inquiry that the

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Cabinet Secretary is answering. I don't think anybody has to subject

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themselves to trial by media when there is a process being conducted

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by the highest civil servant in the land who whose integrity and

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determination to get to the facts is unimpeachable.

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The ministerial rule book says it shouldn't be the Cabinet Secretary

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doing that investigation? Well, the Labour Party called for Sir Gus

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O'Donnell to investigate. The Prime Minister has asked Sir Gusto donl -

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- Sir Gus O'Donnell to investigate. Why you call for Sir Gus O'Donnell

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to investigate? I don't know. That's Jim Murphy would have to

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confirm that. Is Dr Fox hanging by his

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fingernails? I think he is. I don't take any great delight in saying

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that, but I think he is. A day after, tw days after making a

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statement in the Commons in you are still the centre of the storm, it

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it starts to look difficult, indeed. There is just so many unanswered

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questions here. At the beginning Liam Fox said these were wild and

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baseless allegation. Well, clearly they weren't.

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He has not dealt straight from the outset.

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Mr Werritty will not tell us, the British people, through the Cabinet

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second, or the -- Cabinet Secretary or the BBC or hover, where his

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money comes from, isn't that fatal for the Defence Secretary? It has

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got to be in the public domain. We have got to have a clear answer

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about whether Mr Werritty profited from the meetings. We have to have

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an answer to that question in clear terms.

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We have to have an answer to that question. We clearly need, the

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Cabinet Secretary to confirm ta Mr Werritty -- that Mr Werritty did

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not profit from the meetings. That's clear. The sources of his

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private income are not necessarily something that need to be...

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can you tell he profited unless you know the source of his income?

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Cabinet Secretary will need to know. He is attending 18 meetings around

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the world, this is his business life was being involved in all this.

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So clearly all of his private income income needs to be looked at.

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We are speculate, but the Cabinet Secretary is a man of unimpeepable

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integ gretty. It he comes to the conclusion there has been no ip

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prop try tee, -- impropriety, I hope the Labour Party accept that.

:09:45.:09:48.

But it will be the Prime Minister's's decision in the end.

:09:48.:09:51.

Government ministers are warning that its shake-up of the NHS in

:09:51.:09:54.

England could be killed off if members of the House of Lords get

:09:54.:10:01.

their way this afternoon. Peers including Lord Owen, Lord Owen who

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we spoke to yesterday tabled an amendment which would refer

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discussion of one part of the Bill to a committee, a move which the

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Government says puts the Bill at risk. Now we have the new Shadow

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Health Secretary here. Have they brought you back in to save the

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NHS? Well, I will do my best. But it is in peril. The NHS is in the

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danger zone because of the decisions this Government has taken.

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The great... But... The great mistake that Mr Cameron made was

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allowing his Health Secretary to dig in with this unwanted and

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dangerous reform when in fact the Health Service needed to be getting

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on with the big big challenge it faces which is the financial

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financial challenge. The combination of the financial

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challenge with this reo means they plunge the NHS into chaos.

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Well, you say that, except now, it is the case that Labour would back

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GP commissioning if the Government drops its Bill is that right?

:10:52.:10:56.

came into the job at the weekend and I wanted to move things on. I

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wanted to make a genuine offer to Mr Lancely. When we were in the

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Government, we wanted a greater role for clinicians. We had a

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programme called Practise Based Commissioning. It was going to be

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the hallmark of our next stage of reforms that we had clinicians for

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involved. I have no objection to the principle. What I object to is

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this Bill which goes way beyond that principle.

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OK... And drives a coach and horses through the National Health Service.

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The GP commissioning was very much the centrepiece of the reform and

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now you're saying you back that centre piece of that reform so

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you've changed the position. It was called an unnecessary top, down

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reorganisation by Labour. Now you're saying as an offer, you're

:11:45.:11:48.

going to back GP commissioning if the Government drops its Bill. You

:11:48.:11:51.

back the reform? It is a constructive and genuine offer. Mr

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Lansley is in a difficult position. He can't get his Bill through

:11:55.:11:59.

Parliament. I came into the job at the weekend and I said, "The best

:11:59.:12:02.

thing you could do for the NHS, if we were to put the NHS first, the

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best thing to do is to drop the Bill altogether." And that's what

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Labour peers will vote for today, but we don't want to plunge the NHS

:12:11.:12:19.

into an abyss. Which it would. W-we will work with them to establish

:12:19.:12:22.

GP-led comirking. -- commissioning. It was something I could have

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supported when I was Health Secretary. What I am amazed by is

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the reply I've had. I put the offer on the table and the offer still

:12:28.:12:33.

stands. The Health Secretary has written back with a petulant rant...

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Tell us what it said? It is unbelievable.

:12:37.:12:43.

It said no, basically? He goes into a complete political rant. Given

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where we are, you know, surely now people want to see politicians

:12:47.:12:51.

working together for the good of the NHS. To have the the Health

:12:51.:12:56.

Secretary so dug in this this way, so oblivious to what people are

:12:56.:12:59.

saying, I can only take from this letter that he sent to me that the

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man has lost the plot. Hang on Andy Burnham, you say he lost the plot,

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but you are asking him to drop it which would plunge the NHS into

:13:08.:13:13.

chaos? No, no, because GP-led commissioning can be implemented

:13:13.:13:16.

through the current legal structure in the National Health Service. It

:13:16.:13:19.

is quite possible, indeed it would be better for the NHS because you

:13:19.:13:23.

could have it in place within weeks and you would make savings. You

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would not have all the unnecessary costs of this reorganisation. That

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is the offer. Mr Lansley should should accept it.

:13:30.:13:35.

Andy Burnham is right, there has been this ruse that if the peers

:13:35.:13:39.

don't go with the Government today, that it will kill off the Bill. It

:13:39.:13:43.

won't kill off the Bill at all? would create a delay that would be

:13:43.:13:49.

fatal. No, it wouldn't. No, it wouldn't,

:13:49.:13:55.

Philip Hammond. Lord Owen said extra scrutiny of the Bill would be

:13:56.:14:00.

done by December, plenty of time for it to complete its

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Parliamentary passage. understanding from discussions I

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had with the business managers in the House of Lords this would be

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fatal to the Bill. It is a Parliamentary tactic.

:14:11.:14:15.

Burnham talked about the threat to the NHS as he calls it. The the

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real threat to the NHS is Labour's refusal, even now, to commit to the

:14:20.:14:24.

additional funding that we have committed to the NHS. They would

:14:24.:14:28.

take away still �30 billion over the lifetime of this... Can I

:14:28.:14:35.

correct you? Can I correct you? Andy Burnham described as

:14:35.:14:38.

irresponsible our commitment to ring-fence NHS funding.

:14:38.:14:42.

A brief answer, Andy Burnham. I'm sorry, you better take that

:14:42.:14:49.

back because I didn't. I did a deal before the election to secure the

:14:49.:14:51.

front-line of the National Health Service. We secured the front-line

:14:51.:14:54.

in the police and in in schools and the National Health Service. I said

:14:54.:14:57.

I would spend some of that money, ring-fenced for the NHS on social

:14:57.:15:00.

care because hospitals wouldn't function if Local Government was

:15:00.:15:03.

stripped of the funds to help older people get out of hospital. I

:15:03.:15:09.

suggested a transfer, at your Spending Review you did the same

:15:09.:15:12.

thing. You are going to have to continue

:15:12.:15:18.

this argument later on! Amp the After the programme. We have to ask

:15:18.:15:26.

you whether you have to take it What was this about Chris Huhne

:15:26.:15:31.

accusing you of speeding? He must read a piece in the Mail on Sunday,

:15:31.:15:36.

which referred to the fact I had some now expired speeding points.

:15:36.:15:46.

Haven't we all? Unfortunately Chris Huhne inserted the word "recent".

:15:46.:15:53.

Did he not apologise? He has apologised to me, yesterday. I am

:15:53.:16:02.

sure he has. Unemployment reached a 17 year high,

:16:02.:16:09.

more joined the ranks of those out of work. Bringing the total to 2.5

:16:09.:16:19.
:16:19.:16:22.

It is more evidence of the continued poor performance of the

:16:22.:16:27.

British economy, no sign of growth picking up. But there is one group

:16:27.:16:31.

that seems to be suffering badly and that is the young. Youth

:16:31.:16:41.
:16:41.:16:43.

unemployment reached 900 -- 991,000. A worrying figure of a Government

:16:43.:16:47.

that has pledged to end what David Cameron has called the scandal of

:16:47.:16:57.

youth unemployment. The measure of unemployed 16-24 year olds is the

:16:57.:17:00.

highest since current records began in 1992. Their long-term prospects

:17:00.:17:02.

are also not good. A report yesterday claimed a generation of

:17:02.:17:06.

"baby busters" born in 1993 will be 25% worse off than their parents.

:17:06.:17:08.

This week TUC research also revealed that workers in the

:17:08.:17:11.

lowest-income sectors are among the worst hit by recent unemployment,

:17:11.:17:14.

including sales and bar staff. The riots this summer led some

:17:14.:17:17.

commentators to claim that a lost generation is emerging. But the

:17:17.:17:20.

Government has pledged action with work academies covering industries

:17:20.:17:22.

such as construction and hospitality, offering training and

:17:22.:17:28.

a guaranteed job interview at the end. The figure is slightly lower

:17:28.:17:31.

than the predicted headache headline of 1 million, but that may

:17:31.:17:36.

only be weeks away. I'm joined now by Matt Whale who is 19 and

:17:36.:17:40.

unemployed. He's also one of the campaigners recreating the Jarrow

:17:40.:17:43.

march of 1936 when over 200 men walked from the north east to

:17:43.:17:48.

London to protest against unemployment and poverty. The

:17:48.:17:56.

current march is making its way through Harley near Rotherham.

:17:56.:18:00.

Thanks for joining us, how long have you been unemployed? I had

:18:00.:18:05.

just finished a temporary job and before that I was eight months. For

:18:05.:18:10.

over a year without long-term employment. We have outlined the

:18:10.:18:14.

prospects which don't look great. We are looking at the figures,

:18:14.:18:18.

coming up to a million. How do you friends and family feel about the

:18:18.:18:24.

statistics? How worried are you? Everybody is worried, morale is low

:18:24.:18:34.

with young people as it is. We have had tuition feels -- tuition fees

:18:34.:18:38.

trouble. Another job situation for well-paid jobs is unattainable but

:18:38.:18:43.

thousands of kids as well. We have absolutely no future at the moment.

:18:43.:18:49.

What about the situation in Hull itself? What is happening in your

:18:49.:18:54.

home town? David Cameron said we would see a situation where private

:18:54.:18:59.

injury would take over from the public sector. 1000 jobs had just

:18:59.:19:05.

gone from BAe Systems just outside of Hull. 1000 manufacturing jobs,

:19:05.:19:09.

it means young people in the city had been given this opportunity to

:19:09.:19:15.

get into work. We are the second highest for youth unemployment and

:19:15.:19:18.

it will only rise would the current public sector cuts with the local

:19:18.:19:23.

authority, the biggest employer in the regions. What do you want the

:19:23.:19:33.

march to achieve? We want the reinstatement of the BMA and the

:19:33.:19:41.

scrapping of tuition fees. Social housing to be built. Scrapping up

:19:41.:19:44.

the work there schemes and the Academy's which had been announced

:19:44.:19:48.

which will offer no future for young people. No guarantee jobs,

:19:48.:19:57.

the reopening of youth services and the sustainable jobs to be created

:19:57.:20:03.

rather than bailing out the banks. Philip Hammond, are we headed for 3

:20:03.:20:07.

million unemployed? I hope not, these are disappointing figures.

:20:08.:20:13.

But confidence in the economy, consumer confidence and investor

:20:13.:20:18.

confidence has taken a massive knock as a consequence of what is

:20:18.:20:21.

going on around the world, particularly the eurozone. Until we

:20:21.:20:25.

have recovered their confidence we won't see the benefits coming

:20:25.:20:28.

through up a stable platform that has been created by the plans to

:20:28.:20:32.

reduce the deficit that had been set out and of working that had

:20:32.:20:38.

interest rates at record lows. You need confidence to get economic

:20:38.:20:43.

growth. These figures are already out of date, the in the take us to

:20:43.:20:46.

August. Given what we know about the way the economy has not been

:20:46.:20:50.

growing, is pretty clear that figures on already worse. It will

:20:50.:20:57.

get worse before it gets better? are facing some tough times. And

:20:57.:21:01.

the Chancellor made that clear. it will get worse before it gets

:21:01.:21:06.

better? I won't predict where unemployment is going, Botnets not

:21:06.:21:12.

used site of the context. We have 124,000 more full-time jobs in the

:21:12.:21:16.

economy than we had this time last year. Although the current trend is

:21:16.:21:23.

in the wrong direction, it is not entirely bad news. But not to keep

:21:23.:21:28.

growth -- pace with the growth in the labour force. Private sector

:21:28.:21:33.

job creation outpaced the private sector job losses until February.

:21:33.:21:40.

What has gone wrong? Businesses in the UK have got cash. The they

:21:40.:21:45.

won't invest it? They have large balances but they won't invest it

:21:45.:21:49.

because of weak consumer demand and weak confidence. We have a climate

:21:49.:21:54.

of uncertainty around the world. The Chancellor has said, the

:21:54.:21:58.

eurozone needs to make a decision about what it's doing about Greece.

:21:58.:22:03.

In needs to capitalise its bail-out fund, in needs to recapitalise its

:22:03.:22:07.

banks in order to create the certainty that will allow business

:22:07.:22:13.

confidence to be restored and investments to resume. At the most

:22:13.:22:16.

economists will say it is going to get worse before it gets better.

:22:16.:22:21.

That seems to be the trend and the growth. But the early heads up on

:22:21.:22:25.

growth figures for this quarter, the third quarter, don't look great

:22:25.:22:30.

either. Isn't this a global phenomenon to some extent? You can

:22:30.:22:34.

criticise where the growth strategy is working or not, but throughout

:22:34.:22:38.

the Western world there is an unemployment problem? It has been a

:22:38.:22:48.

global crisis since 2007. A conveniently the Conservative said

:22:48.:22:54.

it was domestic policy. Now they're saying it is the eurozone. The

:22:54.:22:59.

crisis we have seen has developed over the summer. We're talking

:22:59.:23:03.

about no growth in the economy for a year. Of course it has played a

:23:04.:23:10.

part, but so have the decisions he you have taken. The decision to

:23:10.:23:15.

scrap that you should jobs and has put people out of work. The

:23:15.:23:18.

decision to remove the educational maintenance allowance has put

:23:18.:23:22.

people out of education and training. The decisions have added

:23:22.:23:27.

to these figures and when we said to far, too fast, that is what's we

:23:27.:23:32.

meant. We always accepted there was an important global dimension to

:23:32.:23:36.

what happened. A charge against the previous Government is they make

:23:36.:23:40.

matters worse in the UK by irresponsible borrowing at the top

:23:40.:23:46.

of the boom when they should have been repaying debt. Mr Cameron and

:23:46.:23:50.

Mr Osborne called it a tough settlement, and they would be

:23:50.:23:58.

sticking with those spending limits. You will wahhabism after the event.

:23:58.:24:05.

-- you were wise after the event. Shall I give you that figures from

:24:05.:24:13.

your Government? When you came to power, its �624,000 Best 6024000

:24:13.:24:19.

out of work. And then it rose. did a lot during our time in

:24:19.:24:23.

Government to get young people into education and youth unemployment

:24:23.:24:26.

down. When the financial crash came, of course the numbers of young

:24:26.:24:33.

people went up. Even before that you had not got back to the 1997

:24:33.:24:42.

figure. We tried to get young people into jobs to help them.

:24:42.:24:47.

is what we are doing. It's not a good time to be young and looking

:24:47.:24:53.

for a job in Britain? Look at any country in Europe and use

:24:53.:24:57.

unemployment is too high, in much higher percentages in other

:24:57.:25:03.

countries. It is a serious problem, we are tackling it with 250,000

:25:03.:25:07.

additional apprenticeships, technical training colleges, work-

:25:07.:25:12.

experience places. Now on Monday the Prime Minister

:25:13.:25:15.

announced the citizenship test should be toughened up and include

:25:15.:25:21.

questions on British History. Now we have with us here two men who

:25:21.:25:24.

are not mere citizens but a Secretary of State and a shadow

:25:24.:25:27.

Secretary of State, so they should be able to answer these questions -

:25:27.:25:37.
:25:37.:25:54.

shouldn't they, Jo? Can we do a Assistant.

:25:54.:25:58.

Yes. Now raise your hands if you have the right answer - I'll not

:25:58.:26:00.

have any shouting out. The Magna Carta was signed in

:26:00.:26:03.

Philip Hammond's constituency of Runnymede. But when - and I want

:26:03.:26:13.
:26:13.:26:31.

That June 15th, 15. If you don't know when the Magna Carter was

:26:31.:26:37.

signed in your own constituency! It wouldn't have been right for

:26:37.:26:47.
:26:47.:26:48.

daytime television. Who was Henry VIII's first wife?

:26:48.:26:51.

Don't you watch television? The one he got rid of.

:26:51.:26:59.

He got rid of a lot. She wasn't British? She was Spanish,

:26:59.:27:07.

Catherine of Aragon. Who won the Battle of Naseby?

:27:07.:27:11.

Neither of you know who won the Battle of Naseby.

:27:11.:27:21.
:27:21.:27:24.

The Roundheads? Well done. Who led the army?

:27:24.:27:32.

Was it Oliver Cromwell? I think that would have counted as well.

:27:32.:27:42.
:27:42.:27:44.

You make or may not qualify as British citizens. You may or may

:27:44.:27:46.

not qualify as British citizens, but you're performance wasn't good

:27:46.:27:49.

enough to win one of these! A contest which I'm afraid you're

:27:49.:27:52.

disqualified from entering anyway. For the rest of you, we'll remind

:27:52.:27:56.

you how to enter in a moment. But first see if you can remember when

:27:56.:28:06.
:28:06.:28:16.

did this happen? There is flash # I am just a teenage date back

:28:16.:28:26.
:28:26.:28:27.

baby. # Out of reach, so far.

:28:27.:28:37.
:28:37.:28:44.

It was the smugglers who decreed we We have customers from the ethnic

:28:44.:28:54.

mix and age group and we have no problem at all.

:28:54.:29:00.

They must be more to politics than the constant media pressure and

:29:00.:29:10.
:29:10.:29:28.

exposes that has dogged me over the To be in with a chance of winning a

:29:28.:29:31.

Daily Politics mug, send your answer to our special quiz email

:29:31.:29:40.

And you can see the full terms and conditions for Guess The Year on

:29:40.:29:46.

our website: It's coming up to midday here, just take a look at

:29:46.:29:51.

Big Ben and that can mean only one thing! Yes, Prime Minister's

:29:51.:30:01.
:30:01.:30:01.

Questions is on its way. The first PMQs since the three

:30:01.:30:05.

party conferences, what will dominate? I think Ed Miliband will

:30:05.:30:10.

have to talk about the economy. While most people around

:30:10.:30:13.

Westminster will expect him to seize on the Liam Fox the first and

:30:13.:30:17.

ask questions, there are dangers about that. There isn't a smoking

:30:17.:30:22.

gun and it looks like you are throwing around questions without

:30:22.:30:27.

claiming victory later on. It will be damaging and dangerous they Ed

:30:27.:30:32.

Miliband. Again he will seize on unemployment figures and that

:30:32.:30:36.

things are those in the country care about. Let's go over to the

:30:36.:30:46.
:30:46.:30:56.

And Marine David Fairbrotherment our thoughts and sympathies should

:30:56.:30:58.

with their families, their friends and their colleagues.

:30:58.:31:02.

This morning, I had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others

:31:02.:31:05.

and in addition to my duties in this House, I shall have further

:31:06.:31:09.

such meetings today. Mr Speaker, the whole House will

:31:09.:31:14.

want to endorse the Prime Minister's words about our heroic

:31:14.:31:16.

service personnel and their families. Most of us will want to

:31:16.:31:20.

see the earliest possible withdrawal of our combat troops

:31:20.:31:23.

from Afghanistan. But on another issue, what is the Prime Minister

:31:23.:31:28.

going to do about that group of women already in their late 50s who

:31:28.:31:33.

have seen their State pension age rise from 60 to 64 and now face a

:31:33.:31:38.

two year further increase from 64 to 66. The coalition had to reform

:31:38.:31:47.

the pensions system, but this anomaly needs addressing..

:31:47.:31:52.

friend is right to identify, of course, it is right to equalise men

:31:52.:31:57.

and women's State pension ages. That's been a long-term goal shared

:31:57.:32:00.

across the House of Commons. It is right to raise the retirement age

:32:00.:32:04.

to 66. We know there are a group of people affected by the transition

:32:04.:32:07.

and some people are having to potentially work for an extra two

:32:07.:32:11.

years. We are looking at what transitional help we can give to

:32:11.:32:14.

this group of people and we will be making an announcement shortly.

:32:15.:32:21.

THE SPEAKER: Ed Miliband. Mr Mr SPeabg, can I -- Speaker, can

:32:21.:32:31.
:32:31.:32:31.

I join the Prime Minister in paying tribute to servicemen. These were

:32:32.:32:36.

exceptionally courageous men who died serving their country and our

:32:36.:32:39.

deepest condolences go to their family and friends. Mr Speaker, a

:32:39.:32:43.

year ago during our exchanges, the Prime Minister justified his

:32:43.:32:46.

economic policy by saying, "Unemployment would fall this year,

:32:46.:32:52.

next year and the year after." Given that unemployment has risen

:32:52.:32:58.

by 114,000 today, isn't it time he admitted his plan is not working?

:32:58.:33:02.

First of all, these are very disappointing figures that have

:33:02.:33:06.

been announced today and every job that is lost is a tragedy for that

:33:06.:33:09.

person and for their family and that is why this Government is

:33:09.:33:13.

going to do everything it possibly can to help get people into work.

:33:13.:33:17.

That is why we have the work programme which is the biggest back

:33:17.:33:22.

to work programme since the 1930s. It is going to help 2.5 million

:33:22.:33:26.

people. That is why we have Welfare Reform to make sure it pays for

:33:26.:33:30.

people always to be in work. That is why we are reforming our schools,

:33:30.:33:35.

including raising the participation age to 18, so we end the scandal of

:33:35.:33:39.

16 and 17-year-olds left on the dole the. And that is why we have a

:33:39.:33:45.

record number of apprenticeships, 360,000 this year, but I accept we

:33:45.:33:48.

have got to do more to get our economy moving, to get jobs for our

:33:48.:33:53.

people, but we mustn't abandon the plan that has given us record low

:33:53.:33:57.

low interest rates. Mr Speaker, the same script month

:33:57.:34:01.

after month. It is not working. Doesn't he realise today's figures

:34:01.:34:06.

show it isn't working and it is his failure that means today in Britain

:34:06.:34:11.

we have nearly one million young people out of work. Why doesn't he

:34:11.:34:15.

accept some responsibility for doing something about it?

:34:15.:34:17.

I accept responsibility for everything that happens in our

:34:17.:34:22.

economy. I just sometimes wish that people who are in Government for 13

:34:22.:34:24.

years would accept some responsibility for the mess they

:34:24.:34:28.

made. What this Government is pledged to

:34:28.:34:33.

do is everything we can to get our economy moving. That is why we have

:34:34.:34:37.

cut petrol tax and corporation tax, why we are reforming the planning

:34:37.:34:42.

system, why we introduce the regional growth fund, why we are

:34:42.:34:46.

forcing the banks to lend money, why we have created 22 enterprise

:34:46.:34:52.

zones. He wants us to change course on reducing our deficit. If we

:34:52.:34:58.

change course on reducing our deficit, we would end up with

:34:58.:35:02.

interest rates like Spain, Portugal and Greece and we would send our

:35:02.:35:07.

economy into a tail-spin. Mr Speaker, I want him to change

:35:07.:35:11.

course so he has a credible plan to get people back to work in this

:35:11.:35:14.

country. You see, what the Prime Minister what, the Prime Minister

:35:14.:35:19.

doesn't seem to understand is that month after month, as unemployment

:35:19.:35:22.

goes up, the number of people claiming benefit goes up, the costs

:35:22.:35:27.

go up and fewer people are in work and paying taxes. To have a

:35:27.:35:31.

credible plan on the deficit, you need a credible plan for growth and

:35:31.:35:35.

he doesn't have one. Now, it is not just young people who are suffering,

:35:35.:35:39.

can the Prime Minister tell us when was the last time that unemployment

:35:39.:35:44.

among women reached the levels it has today?

:35:44.:35:47.

First of all, he is wrong in his figures. There are 50,000 more

:35:47.:35:52.

women in work than there were at the time of the election. There are

:35:52.:35:56.

actually 239,000 more people in work at the time of the election.

:35:56.:36:02.

There are 500,000 more credible and private sector jobs, but he asks

:36:02.:36:08.

about a credible growth plan. I would ask - where is his credible

:36:08.:36:13.

growth plan? Why is it that the former Chancellor of the Exchequer

:36:13.:36:17.

said this, "If you don't have a credible economic plan, you are

:36:17.:36:22.

simply not at the races." THE SPEAKER: Order. Whatever people

:36:22.:36:26.

think of what is being said on either side of the House, they must

:36:26.:36:30.

not shout their heads off. The Prime Minister and the Leader of

:36:30.:36:35.

the Opposition will be heard and that'sted end of T -- end of it.

:36:35.:36:40.

Our plan is supported by the CBI, by the IOD, by the business

:36:40.:36:47.

organisations, by the IMF, by the OECD, he cannot get support from

:36:47.:36:51.

his own former Cabinet m the former Home Secretary says this, "I think

:36:51.:36:55.

the economic proposition that Labour puts at the moment is

:36:55.:36:59.

unconvincing." If he he can't convince his own party, how can he

:36:59.:37:03.

convince the country? Mr Speaker, and the Conservative

:37:03.:37:10.

chair of his Select Committee says his policies on growth are

:37:10.:37:14.

inconsistent. He can't convince him, can he? Typically he didn't answer

:37:14.:37:17.

the question on women's unemployment so let me tell him.

:37:18.:37:25.

Women's unemployment is at its highest level since 1988. Since

:37:25.:37:29.

1988 the last time there was a a Conservative Government in power.

:37:29.:37:34.

Mr Speaker, I have to say instead of apologising four months late to

:37:34.:37:40.

my right honourable friend for saying, "Calm down dear. Scwths he

:37:40.:37:45.

should be appolyjicing to the women of this country. Last year, in his

:37:45.:37:52.

Budget, the Chancellor announced a flagship policy on growth. He said

:37:52.:37:57.

the national insurance holiday for start-up firms would help 400,000

:37:57.:38:01.

businesses. Account Prime Minister tell this House how many businesses

:38:01.:38:09.

have actually taken part? 7,000. Right and on the issue and on the

:38:10.:38:18.

issue and on the issue of women in work, of course, of course, of

:38:18.:38:22.

course, I want to see more women if work and there are 50,000 more

:38:23.:38:26.

women in work than at the time of the last election, but it is this

:38:26.:38:29.

Government that introduced free childcare for all vulnerable two-

:38:29.:38:32.

year-olds. That it extended the childcare for three and four-year-

:38:33.:38:38.

olds. That has increased the Child Tax Credit by �290 and for the

:38:38.:38:41.

first time, announce that had we will be giving childcare to all

:38:41.:38:46.

people working less than 16 hours. Helping thousands, hundreds of

:38:46.:38:50.

thousands of women and families out of poverty into work and into a

:38:50.:38:54.

better life. That is what we're doing, but the question he has got

:38:54.:38:58.

to address, is the big picture which is this - he can't convince

:38:58.:39:02.

the former Home Secretary, the former Trade Minister, the former

:39:02.:39:05.

chancellor that he has got any idea of what to do with the economy and

:39:05.:39:09.

the reason why is if he adopted his plan, we wouldn't be working with

:39:09.:39:15.

the IMF to sort out the eurozone, we would be going to the IMF to ask

:39:15.:39:20.

for a loan. In case he hadn't realised, when

:39:20.:39:25.

the Chancellor says 400,000 firms will benefit and only 7,000 are, it

:39:25.:39:31.

should tell him something! LAUGHTER

:39:31.:39:33.

It should tell him his policies aren't working. That policy is not

:39:33.:39:36.

working. His plan isn't working. Why doesn't he just for once agree

:39:36.:39:42.

with us, cut VAT and put more money into people's pockets. Help the

:39:42.:39:44.

construction industry get moving and invest in getting young people

:39:44.:39:49.

back to work by having a bankers bonus tax. When is the party

:39:49.:39:53.

opposite going to learn? You cannot borrow your way out of a debt

:39:53.:39:57.

crisis. They left us, they left us the

:39:57.:40:04.

biggest deficit, the most leveraged banks, the most endebted house Hodz

:40:04.:40:09.

and what is -- households and what is their answer - to borrow more

:40:09.:40:13.

money? Digby Jones said this, he described the Labour leader's

:40:13.:40:17.

speech at the conference as a divisive and a a kick in the teeth

:40:17.:40:21.

for the only sector that generates wealth and pays the tax and creates

:40:21.:40:24.

the jobs this country needs. That is what a Labour minister said

:40:24.:40:27.

about a Labour policy and that's why he has no credibility

:40:27.:40:33.

whatsoever. Mr Speaker, what a terrible answer!

:40:33.:40:38.

And yes, and yes, and yes, I will take on, I will take on those

:40:38.:40:41.

companies in this country who aren't doing the right thing like

:40:41.:40:45.

the energy companies and we're seeing change today in the energy

:40:45.:40:53.

sector because of what I said. Now let me say to him... Now let me

:40:53.:41:02.

just say to him, let me just say to him. On the day of the worst... On

:41:02.:41:06.

the day of the worst... On the day of the worst unemployment figures,

:41:06.:41:10.

on the day of the worst unemployment figures in 17 years,

:41:10.:41:14.

the Prime Minister is is fighting to save the job of the Defence

:41:14.:41:17.

Secretary by his doing nothing to save the jobs of hundreds of

:41:17.:41:20.

thousands of people up and down this country. It is one rule, if

:41:21.:41:26.

you are in the Cabinet, it is another rule for everyone else!

:41:26.:41:29.

Well, the last Labour leader thought he had saved the world. I

:41:29.:41:34.

think after this, this Labour leader is Walter Mitty. What they

:41:34.:41:37.

have got to do is accept some spont for the mess what -- responsibility

:41:37.:41:40.

for the mess that you made of this economy. You are the party that

:41:40.:41:43.

borrow too much, that spent too much, that left us with the

:41:43.:41:46.

unregulated banks, that left us with the mess that we have to clear

:41:46.:41:50.

up and when you see those two, sitting on the frontbench, who

:41:50.:41:54.

worked for so long in the Treasury, you have to ask yourself, you

:41:54.:41:58.

wouldn't bring back Fred Fred Goodwin to sort out the banks, why

:41:58.:42:07.

would you bring them back to sort out the economy?

:42:07.:42:15.

THE SPEAKER: The House will want to hear Sir Peter Tapp sill.

:42:15.:42:21.

As my right honourable happened to notice that since I put the point

:42:21.:42:31.
:42:31.:42:31.

to him last month the head of our service Fraud Squad, has publicly

:42:31.:42:38.

deplored the fact that no senior British bankers have been

:42:38.:42:44.

prosecuted for their ill sponsor -- ill responsibility and has urged

:42:44.:42:49.

that legislation should be introduced as soon as possible to

:42:49.:42:55.

empower his office, to prosecute such offenders in the future.

:42:55.:42:58.

I think it is important that inquiries are conducted into what

:42:58.:43:06.

went wrong at RBS and HBOS because clearly we are left clearing up a

:43:06.:43:09.

mess that the responsibility of others have left. If there is room

:43:09.:43:14.

for crim criminal criminal prosecutions there should, our job

:43:14.:43:18.

is to regulate the banks and the financial institutions properly and

:43:18.:43:21.

that's why we put the Bank of England back at the heart of this

:43:21.:43:23.

job. Mr Speaker, will the Prime Minister

:43:23.:43:28.

publish a full list of all the ministers and Downing Street staff

:43:28.:43:34.

who since May 2010 met Mr Werritty in in either an official and social

:43:34.:43:37.

capacity, including whether he himself, as Prime Minister, has met

:43:37.:43:42.

him? I'm happy to look at that.

:43:42.:43:50.

Thank you, Mr Speaker. THE SPEAKER: Order.

:43:50.:43:53.

Would my right honourable friend, the Prime Minister, agree that in

:43:53.:43:57.

light of difficult times encountered by some of my

:43:57.:44:04.

constituents, working for BAe, it is even more important that this

:44:04.:44:09.

Government continues its excellent support for investment and for the

:44:09.:44:15.

development of typhoon and in new unmanned aerial assistance vehicles.

:44:15.:44:22.

concern and that's why we have put in place plans for an enterprise

:44:22.:44:25.

zone on both sides of the Pennines to help with that important

:44:25.:44:30.

business. BAe is a great British company. There is a huge forward

:44:30.:44:37.

order book for it, not least from our defence defence Budget, I will

:44:38.:44:42.

do everything I can to support that company including promoting its

:44:42.:44:45.

exports abroad where I had conversations with the Japanese, I

:44:45.:44:50.

will be talking to the Saudi Arabians and others to make sure

:44:50.:45:00.
:45:00.:45:00.

this great British company goes on Imperial Health Care Trust which

:45:00.:45:04.

offers outstanding clinical care and research in three major

:45:04.:45:09.

hospitals in west London is being forced to make 5% per annum cuts

:45:09.:45:15.

for five years, 25% of its �900 million a year budget. How does

:45:15.:45:18.

that fulfil the Prime Minister's promise not to cut health services

:45:18.:45:23.

to my constituents? We are increasing NHS spending throughout

:45:23.:45:28.

this Parliament. It is a complete contrast to the party opposite

:45:28.:45:34.

policy. They have a new health spokesman. I was worried I wouldn't

:45:34.:45:39.

have the same quantity of quotes, but he has not disappointed. He

:45:39.:45:46.

said this "it is irresponsible to increase NHS spending in real

:45:46.:45:51.

terms." that is their position, it is irresponsible to increase health

:45:51.:45:57.

spending. We disagree. Too many children in Britain today live in

:45:57.:46:00.

families that don't provide them with the loving and stable

:46:00.:46:04.

environment they deserve. That has led to many of our most social

:46:04.:46:08.

pressing problems. Will a Prime Minister agreed this Government

:46:08.:46:14.

needs to do all it can to help some of Britain's most problem families?

:46:14.:46:19.

I completely agree with him. If you look at the evidence, some of the

:46:19.:46:23.

most troubled families in our country get a huge amount of

:46:23.:46:26.

interventions from the police, social services, education and the

:46:26.:46:31.

rest of it. But no one is really getting in there to turn those

:46:31.:46:37.

families around, give them a better chance. We are establishing a new

:46:38.:46:42.

unit under the leadership of Louise Casey, who has been a superb

:46:42.:46:45.

official over the last decade and we will be putting huge resources

:46:45.:46:52.

into turning around the 120,000 at most troubled families in our

:46:52.:46:55.

country. Or we can make a difference to those families and

:46:55.:47:00.

then reduce the burden they place on the taxpayer at the same time.

:47:00.:47:05.

Will the Prime Minister instruct our ambassador in Kiev to make

:47:05.:47:09.

representations on behalf of the Government and Parliament about the

:47:09.:47:14.

appalling show trial of prison sentences handed down on the former

:47:14.:47:19.

Prime Minister. Prime ministers do make mistakes! They to lose

:47:19.:47:24.

elections as she did. She has been put on trial for policy decisions

:47:24.:47:33.

she took. Make it clear the Ukraine won't be able to open membership

:47:33.:47:40.

talks with the EU because of this disgraceful act, Stalinist show

:47:40.:47:48.

trial? We agreed the treatment of the former Prime Minister is

:47:48.:47:52.

disgraceful. The Foreign Secretary has made a strong statement. The

:47:52.:47:55.

Ukrainians need to know if they leave the situation as it is it

:47:55.:47:59.

will severely affect their relationship, not only with the UK

:47:59.:48:04.

but with the European Union and NATO. Small business and not more

:48:04.:48:10.

Government debt is due to -- key to job creation. Will the Prime

:48:10.:48:13.

Minister join me in welcoming the support from Bedfordshire

:48:13.:48:18.

University, Cranfield University, Bedfordshire on Sunday newspaper

:48:18.:48:23.

and 100 business leaders in my constituency to set up a mentoring

:48:23.:48:29.

scheme to support early-stage businesses in Bedford? Canny work

:48:29.:48:32.

with me to see if it can be replicated in other towns across

:48:32.:48:37.

the country? This Government recognises it will be small

:48:37.:48:40.

businesses that will provide the growth, jobs and wealth this

:48:40.:48:44.

country needs. That is why we have an agreement with the banks to

:48:44.:48:49.

increase lending to small businesses, we are providing a

:48:49.:48:55.

great relief for small businesses. We have the one in, one out rules

:48:55.:48:58.

for regulation and I applaud all levels at a local level giving

:48:58.:49:04.

small businesses the support they need to grow.

:49:04.:49:07.

Responding to the science select committee support on forensic

:49:07.:49:10.

science, a Home Office minister says we don't agree with the

:49:10.:49:15.

committee's report. It mistakes and number of significant points. Given

:49:15.:49:21.

the Home Office's financial case was 50% adrift and they now agree

:49:21.:49:25.

with the argument the national archive should be protected, will a

:49:25.:49:29.

Prime Minister urgently intervene and review the decision to close

:49:29.:49:35.

the FSS because the profession is now losing key scientific staff

:49:35.:49:40.

from the country and from the profession? I will look at what he

:49:40.:49:45.

says, but I look at this decision at the time in some detail, having

:49:45.:49:48.

known well the Forensic Science Service when I worked in the Home

:49:48.:49:52.

Office many years ago. The evidence was pretty overwhelming that

:49:52.:49:56.

actually the model wasn't working and change was needed. That is what

:49:56.:50:00.

has happened and sometimes it is better to make that change rather

:50:00.:50:05.

than endlessly review it. The Prime Minister inherited a welfare system

:50:06.:50:10.

where families were able to claim �2,000 a week in housing benefits

:50:10.:50:14.

and some fan of -- families are worse off working than those on

:50:14.:50:19.

benefits. What can the Prime Minister do to help those hard-

:50:19.:50:24.

working families in share would who get out of bed and work hard

:50:24.:50:28.

because of their self pride and responsibility? I think he speaks

:50:28.:50:33.

for most in the country when people say what they want is a welfare

:50:33.:50:37.

system that will do the right thing. We are putting in place a cap so

:50:37.:50:42.

you cannot have these absurd amounts of money going in housing

:50:42.:50:47.

benefit to individual families. As he says, sometimes �2,000 a week.

:50:47.:50:51.

Universal credit will make sure it is always worthwhile people working

:50:51.:50:55.

and worthwhile working harder. To the party opposite that now claim

:50:55.:50:59.

after a decade of giving people something for nothing, let's see if

:50:59.:51:03.

they are prepared to back that by voting for a tough caps in the

:51:03.:51:07.

welfare bill. If a minister breaks the

:51:07.:51:11.

Ministerial Code, should they keep their job? The ministerial code is

:51:11.:51:15.

clear, it is for the Prime Minister to decide whether someone keeps

:51:15.:51:19.

their job. In the case of the Defence Secretary, it is important

:51:19.:51:23.

when the leader of the opposition has called for an inquiry by the

:51:23.:51:27.

Cabinet Secretary, when I have established an inquiry by the

:51:27.:51:32.

Cabinet Secretary. Let us allow the Cabinet Secretary to do his work,

:51:32.:51:36.

establish the facts and then a decision can be made. I think the

:51:36.:51:40.

Defence Secretary has done an excellent job clearing up a

:51:40.:51:45.

complete mess he was left by Labour. Retirement ages have to go up but

:51:45.:51:51.

the timetable in the pension spell is too fast for women. I was

:51:51.:51:55.

pleased to hear the Prime Minister say you was looking at transitional

:51:55.:51:58.

arrangements and I hope it will slow down the increase of

:51:58.:52:04.

retirement age for many women. have looked at this issue, we will

:52:04.:52:08.

be making an announcement shortly. I think we have to look at the most

:52:08.:52:12.

difficult cases where people have quite an extra amount of working

:52:12.:52:17.

time they would have to do. He it is right, and the must look at the

:52:17.:52:21.

big picture to equalise men and women's pension arrangements and

:52:21.:52:25.

moved to 66, given the extra longevity we enjoy as a country.

:52:25.:52:28.

Given that I hope he will be pleased when the announcement is

:52:28.:52:33.

made. Of the Prime Minister and leader of the opposition are on

:52:33.:52:36.

record in supporting gender equality for future Royal

:52:36.:52:40.

successions. Will the Prime Minister update the house on the

:52:40.:52:43.

consultation he and the Deputy Prime Minister are having with

:52:43.:52:47.

other Commonwealth leaders about this issue? Does he not agree it is

:52:47.:52:51.

better we resolve this matter before, rather than after any

:52:51.:52:56.

future Royal children are born? certainly believe this issue should

:52:56.:53:01.

be sorted out, I am on the record as believing that. Across the house

:53:01.:53:06.

there has been widespread support. In terms of the consultation I have

:53:06.:53:10.

written to the heads of state, the prime ministers of the other roles

:53:10.:53:13.

concerned and we will be having a meeting about this. It is not an

:53:13.:53:18.

easy issue to sort out. For many of them there may be issues and

:53:18.:53:21.

worries about starting a Parliamentary and legal process.

:53:22.:53:26.

But it is an issue we should get sorted and I am delighted to play a

:53:26.:53:33.

part in doing that. Does the Prime Minister agree with the reasons

:53:33.:53:37.

advice from the shadow Treasury minister who said what we must not

:53:37.:53:42.

do and cannot do is pick good winners and losers and conceived

:53:42.:53:47.

such a simplistic sinners and winners a model, which shows a

:53:47.:53:50.

distinct misunderstanding of business? She makes an important

:53:50.:53:55.

point. The greatest need in our economy is to generate wealth and

:53:55.:54:00.

jobs and investment. What was in labour did at their conference?

:54:00.:54:03.

They launched a big attack on British business, which is what is

:54:03.:54:08.

going to help us out of these difficulties. Was the Prime

:54:08.:54:13.

Minister a were before today his chief spokeswoman was a former

:54:13.:54:19.

colleague of Mr Adam Werritty? whole issue is being looked at by

:54:19.:54:25.

the Cabinet Secretary. He will produce his report and I ask people

:54:25.:54:29.

to have a little patience, there are questions be answered and then

:54:29.:54:35.

we can move ahead. Is my Right Honourable Friend aware,

:54:35.:54:39.

nearly 40 members from the side of the House have signed an amendment

:54:39.:54:43.

in my name requiring that all offenders convicted of using a

:54:43.:54:47.

knife in a threatening or endangering fashion, will receive a

:54:47.:54:52.

custodial sentence? And not just those over 18. Will he consider

:54:52.:54:58.

supporting this amendment? I will look closely at what he says and I

:54:58.:55:01.

know the Justice Secretary is doing this. We want to move ahead with a

:55:01.:55:05.

mandatory sentence for adults and we will look at the arguments he

:55:05.:55:11.

makes. Sir John Major said four days ago the Government should use

:55:11.:55:18.

the Euro crisis as an opportunity to loosen EU powers over Britain.

:55:18.:55:23.

His first priority was the common fisheries policy. When is the Prime

:55:23.:55:26.

Minister going to take his advice and tell the European Union Britain

:55:26.:55:32.

intends to withdraw from the Common Fisheries Commission? I always

:55:33.:55:37.

listened to his advice. What Britain desperately needs to do in

:55:37.:55:41.

the short term, is get behind the solution to the eurozone crisis. It

:55:41.:55:46.

is having a chilling effect on the whole of the European economy and

:55:46.:55:51.

the American economy as well. I do accept that at the same time as

:55:51.:55:54.

doing that, it is going to be important to get some safeguards

:55:54.:55:58.

for Britain as eurozone countries go ahead and sort out their

:55:58.:56:02.

problems. We need safeguards to make sure the single market goes on

:56:02.:56:12.
:56:12.:56:14.

working for the United Kingdom. Edward engineering advice 25 new

:56:14.:56:20.

jobs in the town at JobCentre plus have got 249 jobs on offer. Does

:56:20.:56:27.

the Prime Minister agree it would be further good news if he kept the

:56:27.:56:29.

pressure on and encouraged businesses in Wales to advertise

:56:29.:56:36.

even more jobs? We will keep the pressure. It is worth making the

:56:36.:56:40.

points that in spite of the difficulties there are half a

:56:40.:56:42.

million new private sector jobs in the economy compared with at the

:56:42.:56:47.

time of the elections. We need all of the things that help businesses

:56:47.:56:52.

expand and grow to be in place and bank finance is one of those things.

:56:52.:56:55.

We have the Merlin agreement which is increasing lending to small

:56:55.:56:59.

businesses. We have credit easing to make sure we look at other ways

:56:59.:57:07.

of expanding credit in our economy. This week I had the privilege of

:57:07.:57:11.

meeting two men from the ready for work campaign, impressive people

:57:11.:57:15.

campaigning against rising youth unemployment. Can the Prime

:57:15.:57:18.

Minister tell us what has happened to his bow from earlier this year

:57:18.:57:23.

to reverse the trend. Can he tell the House when he last met a young

:57:23.:57:28.

unemployed person? What has been happening is it has been going up

:57:28.:57:33.

since 2004. It went up in the growth years as well as in the

:57:33.:57:36.

difficult years. We need a comprehensive strategy that deals

:57:36.:57:40.

with all of the problems of youth unemployment, including the fact

:57:40.:57:46.

there are too many people leaving school aged 16, who spent 13 years

:57:46.:57:50.

under a Labour education secretary. They need to take some

:57:50.:57:53.

responsibility for others, the left school without qualifications to

:57:53.:57:59.

help them get a job. We need better education, a welfare system that

:57:59.:58:02.

helps people into work, and the work programme that does not

:58:02.:58:12.
:58:12.:58:18.

provide phoney jobs. And recent TaxPayers' Alliance report reveals

:58:18.:58:25.

that 38 union leaders are were remunerated at over �100,000 each,

:58:25.:58:29.

including Derek Simpson argue night. He received over half-a-million

:58:29.:58:36.

pounds. -- of unite. Does he agree it is time for union boss of pay

:58:36.:58:40.

restraint? They always listen to the trade unions, but they will

:58:40.:58:44.

never listen to the taxpayers alliance. They don't want to hear

:58:44.:58:49.

about excessive pay in the public sector, local Government or in the

:58:49.:58:55.

trade unions. This is another question the Prime Minister won't

:58:55.:59:00.

want to answer. Can he get a grip of his back benches following last

:59:00.:59:04.

night's debacle in this chamber relating to business in this house

:59:04.:59:08.

on 17th October. Doesn't he understand the perception in the

:59:08.:59:12.

real world is some MPs would like to talk about their own pensions

:59:12.:59:18.

instead of discussing a 22 year olds in justice and the deaths of

:59:18.:59:23.

96 men, women and children? We are going to protect the time but that

:59:23.:59:27.

absolutely vital debate. On the issue of NP's pensions, we have to

:59:27.:59:31.

show restraint at a time when the rest of the public sector is being

:59:31.:59:34.

asked to show restraint. Because of what happened last night there will

:59:34.:59:38.

have to be a debate but it won't eat into the time of the important

:59:39.:59:44.

debate he mentioned, I know many members care deeply about. Can he

:59:44.:59:50.

tell the House what action he is taking to reintroduce rigour into

:59:50.:59:54.

our education system and end the ridiculous situation under the last

:59:54.:00:01.

Government when 22% of students study proper, academic studies?

:00:02.:00:05.

think the education secretary is doing a superb job in focusing

:00:05.:00:08.

schools on results, including English and maths, making sure we

:00:09.:00:12.

look at the English Baccalaureate which includes the core subject

:00:12.:00:17.

that employers and businesses valued. And doing some

:00:17.:00:21.

straightforward things like making sure punctuation and grammar count

:00:21.:00:27.

when you do an exam. Considering the Prime Minister met

:00:27.:00:33.

with a family yesterday, will he reflect on the Commons made on the

:00:33.:00:38.

Taoiseach relating to that meeting and the outcomes and the agreements

:00:38.:00:42.

made at the Weston Park talks in 2001, up by both governments there

:00:42.:00:47.

should be an independent public inquiry? Of course I have reflected

:00:47.:00:51.

incredibly carefully on what was said yesterday. I have reflected on

:00:51.:00:55.

this whole issue for many months since becoming Prime Minister. I

:00:55.:00:59.

believe the right thing for this family, for Northern Ireland, and

:00:59.:01:04.

for everyone in the United Kingdom is not to have another costly and

:01:04.:01:07.

open-ended public inquiry, which may not find the answer. But

:01:07.:01:12.

instead, for the British Government to open up and tell the truth about

:01:12.:01:17.

what happened 22 years ago. We don't need an inquiry to do that.

:01:17.:01:19.

That is why the Northern Ireland Secretary will be making a

:01:19.:01:24.

statement explaining how we will do this, who will be involved. In the

:01:24.:01:28.

end, the greatest healer is the truth, frank acknowledgement of

:01:28.:01:32.

what went wrong, and apologies. Let's not have another Savell

:01:32.:01:37.

protest to get there, let's do the right thing.

:01:37.:01:42.

Will he join me in welcoming the news it seems Gilad Shalit will be

:01:42.:01:47.

released in the next few days and this could go a long way for peace

:01:47.:01:54.

in the area? I am grateful for him raising this. I think if any one

:01:54.:01:57.

reflects on what that young soldier has been through for those weeks,

:01:57.:02:01.

months, years, it is something I think anyone in this house would

:02:01.:02:06.

find difficult to contemplate. If it is the case he will be coming

:02:06.:02:11.

home soon, I wish him and his family and everyone in his real

:02:11.:02:21.
:02:21.:02:30.

It was familiar territory for those of you who followed the debates at

:02:30.:02:34.

the party conferences recently. I am not sure we learned anything new.

:02:34.:02:41.

We saw the Justice Secretary, Mr Clarke and the Home Secretary, Mrs

:02:41.:02:45.

May sitting together. You couldn't have put a cat's whis ter between

:02:45.:02:51.

them -- whisker between them, I think! Like lion and the lamb, they

:02:51.:02:55.

laid out and peace has broken out at least for the cameras today! We

:02:55.:02:59.

will hear from our specialist, by the way the Prime Minister quoted

:02:59.:03:06.

from yesterday's Daily Politics about an ex-Labour Home Secretary,

:03:06.:03:11.

Charles Clarke, saying that he didn't understand or that the

:03:11.:03:21.
:03:21.:03:27.

labour economic policy did - he did not mention the Daily Politics.

:03:27.:03:32.

Miliband was asking about the economy on unemployment figures.

:03:32.:03:36.

Jane in Surrey saved, "David Cameron, clearly rattled at PMQs

:03:36.:03:43.

and had to resort to abuse again calling Ed Miliband, Walter Mitty."

:03:43.:03:51.

Another viewer saying, "David Cameron is acting like he is in

:03:51.:04:00.

Opposition." This from Diane "the best thing the coalition can do is

:04:00.:04:04.

stimulate consumer confidence." Another viewer said said "Ed

:04:04.:04:08.

Miliband had a great opportunity, but he blew it big time." This is

:04:08.:04:12.

from Simon who says "when will Ed Miliband and Labour accept that the

:04:12.:04:18.

plan is working? Yes, it is painful, but necessary." This from Stephen

:04:18.:04:24.

Wiltshire in Cheltenham, "it is all good and well Labour moaning about

:04:24.:04:31.

unemployment. Their record wasn't great. It shows how two-faced

:04:31.:04:40.

Labour has become.". In a sense the die is cast. The Government will

:04:40.:04:43.

not change its its fiscal policy and we know what Labour says it

:04:43.:04:48.

would do if it was in power. So events are going to determine this

:04:48.:04:58.
:04:58.:04:59.

debate, aren't they? What we saw today in four minutes flat a

:04:59.:05:02.

complete upsum of the party conferences with John Bercow added

:05:03.:05:08.

in which we missed. He saw Ed Miliband retort, but we need to

:05:08.:05:12.

have a better plan involving greater spending and David Cameron,

:05:12.:05:18.

saying how going to pay for it? We heard it during the party party

:05:18.:05:25.

conference seasons. On. We are nine days away from the grand bargain to

:05:26.:05:29.

save the eurozone. A week on Sunday, you have the European heads of

:05:29.:05:32.

Government meeting in Brussels to determine how on earth thet pullth

:05:32.:05:37.

put -- they will put together the rescue package, but how we regulate

:05:37.:05:40.

the City of London and whether or not we will see any measures being

:05:40.:05:45.

imposed on us. It is important and yet that wean really a -- wasn't

:05:45.:05:49.

really a subject that took off in the chamber.

:05:49.:05:55.

We reran the easy debates. You saw the favourite movements. Ed Balls

:05:55.:05:58.

with his hands movements referring to slow-growth.

:05:58.:06:04.

Is that what he means when he does that? Flat lining. I haven't seen

:06:04.:06:10.

him on the dance floor! I saw Nick Clegg looking solemn

:06:10.:06:16.

with his tie undone. He used to smile and look

:06:16.:06:19.

adoreingly at the Prime Minister, now he just kind of looks at his

:06:19.:06:24.

nails and looks straight ahead. We saw some other bits. PMQs is

:06:24.:06:26.

interesting for the stuff outside the leaders, the change on

:06:26.:06:30.

Hillsborough I thought was quite significant. I am not sure that MPs

:06:30.:06:36.

come out terribly well looking if they are seen to be talking about

:06:36.:06:39.

their pensions rather than the issues. And some interesting stuff

:06:39.:06:43.

around you with healthcare. And health funding.

:06:44.:06:49.

You liked the soundbite, Philip Hammond, that you can't borrow your,

:06:49.:06:53.

what was it... You can't borrow your way out of debt.

:06:53.:06:58.

You liked that, didn't you? It sums up neatly the problem that Labour

:06:58.:07:03.

has. They rail against the economic policy that George Osborne has set

:07:03.:07:07.

out, that is reducing the deficit. But their only alternative is

:07:07.:07:13.

things like cuts in VAT. Hold on. Borrowing more money.

:07:13.:07:16.

Failing to acknowledge that the underlying problem here is a debt

:07:16.:07:20.

problem. This is not like some of the crisis we have had in the past.

:07:20.:07:25.

So if you like the soundbite, you can't borrow your way out of a debt

:07:25.:07:33.

crisis, why are you in the process of borrowing �0.5 trillion now?

:07:33.:07:37.

in terms of the Government's borrowing? You are about to borrow

:07:37.:07:41.

�0.5 trillion more. You are borrowing your way out of a debt

:07:41.:07:47.

crisis. Andy, we inherited an enormous deficit. Let him answer.

:07:47.:07:53.

Never mind that. Just answer my question. If you can't borrow your

:07:53.:07:58.

way, why are you continuing to borrow your way? Remember reducing

:07:58.:08:03.

the deficit. Year on year we are reducing it.

:08:03.:08:06.

There were record borrowing figures rinetly.

:08:06.:08:09.

-- recently. It can not be reduced to zero

:08:09.:08:18.

overnight. You are cutting the deficit every

:08:18.:08:24.

year, that's the plan, but you are adding to borrowing every year.

:08:24.:08:29.

debt will go on increase as we go continue to borrow a declining

:08:29.:08:37.

amount each year until we have in 2014/2015 eliminated the deficit.

:08:37.:08:40.

Ed Balls is proposing that we should increase the amount each

:08:40.:08:42.

year, making our debt increase more quickly.

:08:42.:08:48.

You are borrowing more each year and that's why you are adding �0.5

:08:48.:08:55.

trillion. We are borrowing less each yearment. Yearment.

:08:55.:09:00.

You are still borrowing more. Let me ask you, the Government says

:09:00.:09:06.

it will borrow �122 billion which is a huge amount of money. It is

:09:06.:09:14.

about 10% of our GDP. Some suggest it will be �125 billion. How much

:09:14.:09:20.

more would you borrow? Borrowing is going up as Ed Miliband said today.

:09:20.:09:24.

We know that. How much more would you borrow for the stimulus?

:09:24.:09:28.

would have a growth plan because growth would bring down the need to

:09:28.:09:30.

borrow. They are paying young people to have them doing nothing

:09:30.:09:34.

on the dole. That's what this money is paying for, to have people out

:09:34.:09:37.

of work. You cannot have no plan for growth in jobs.

:09:37.:09:41.

Are you therefore saying you will have a fiscal stimulus that will

:09:41.:09:45.

not add to borrowing, is that what you are saying? Yes, because we've

:09:45.:09:47.

said. It is not a stimulus then.

:09:47.:09:51.

It would be paid for by a bonus tax on the banks.

:09:51.:09:55.

That's not a stimulus? We would a specific proposal to get young

:09:55.:10:00.

people back to work paid for by a bonus tax on the banks.

:10:01.:10:02.

That's not what Ed Balls is calling for.

:10:02.:10:09.

It is not a fiscal stimulus. Balls is calling for a cut in VAT.

:10:09.:10:13.

The missing bit is confidence in the UK's credit worthiness, if we

:10:14.:10:17.

were to go down the route of more boa owing to buy our way out of

:10:17.:10:21.

this crisis, we would have our credit rating collapsing, interest

:10:21.:10:28.

rates rising... People are paying VAT on fuel.

:10:28.:10:33.

All right, let me move on, I'm puzzled by both your positions.

:10:33.:10:38.

Let's get back to Mr Werritty. Where are we now after that

:10:38.:10:43.

exchange, after what we know, where do you think we go from here?

:10:43.:10:45.

it was interesting if Prime Minister's Questions when the

:10:45.:10:48.

subject came up and David Cameron was asked about it, there wasn't a

:10:48.:10:51.

huge cheer of support. In the House on Monday, there was a feeling that

:10:52.:10:55.

Liam Fox was on top of the situation. There wasn't a great

:10:55.:10:58.

deal of a sense of him being ahead of the game.

:10:58.:11:04.

It has changed now, hasn't it? has a bit. There are a couple of

:11:04.:11:07.

key oints, from everything -- points from everything that we have

:11:07.:11:12.

seen in the public domain so so far, there is nothing that cause him to

:11:12.:11:16.

resign. If he goes, it will be because of something that has yet

:11:16.:11:20.

to come out, likely to be something to do with how Adam Werritty made

:11:20.:11:23.

his money, whether or not he benefited from his relationship

:11:23.:11:26.

with Liam Fox and I think this is the test the Government are trying

:11:26.:11:31.

to frame as the key question question whether or not Adam

:11:31.:11:36.

Werritty directly benefited in a tran actional -- transactional

:11:36.:11:40.

sense by by knowing the Defence Secretary, by by introducing the

:11:40.:11:45.

Defence Secretary to key figures. Do we know if he had access to more

:11:45.:11:51.

than Dr Fox? Did he use his access to Dr Fox to go round Whitehall

:11:51.:11:55.

getting access? Have you met him since you became a minister? Not to

:11:55.:11:59.

my knowledge, unless I met him in a social situation.

:11:59.:12:04.

I haven't had a meeting. I was on Liam Fox's team when he

:12:05.:12:09.

was Shadow Henght and a-- Health Secretary and Adam was an intern. I

:12:09.:12:12.

know him, but I haven't met him since I have been a minister,

:12:12.:12:15.

certainly. You wanted to get Hillsborough off

:12:15.:12:21.

your chest. I was pleased that Steve Rotherham raised it. Because

:12:21.:12:24.

there was an extraordinary event in the House last night. I have been

:12:24.:12:28.

working on this issue for a number of years and over the summer there

:12:28.:12:33.

was an e-petition, 10,000 people signed -- 140 people signed it, a

:12:33.:12:37.

statement of solidarity to the Hillsborough families who faced

:12:37.:12:42.

insults as they faced their campaign for truth and justice.

:12:42.:12:45.

That swept this issue back to the Commons and it was due to take

:12:45.:12:48.

place last Monday. A Tory backbencher objected to the

:12:48.:12:52.

timetabling of that debate because he wanted more time to debate his

:12:52.:12:58.

own pension. The Government did say and made a commitment that it would

:12:58.:13:03.

overturn that. One MP wants to debate his pension and 140,000

:13:03.:13:07.

people can't have their debate on Hillsborough. It is an unbelievable

:13:07.:13:11.

state of affairs. This is a backbench who routinely

:13:11.:13:19.

objects to timetabling motions. Who is it? Chris Chope.

:13:19.:13:22.

The Prime Minister made clear that the Government is going to protect

:13:22.:13:27.

this business so we can have the debate.

:13:27.:13:30.

A final thought from you, Sam. I thought thought it was a school

:13:30.:13:33.

draw, but it didn't change the political direction much.

:13:33.:13:41.

We have got your letter, Andy, we are running out of time.

:13:41.:13:46.

What he did in the Commons is going to back fire on him a lot. My

:13:46.:13:48.

statement related to their commitment to the election to

:13:48.:13:52.

increase health spending in real terms. They didn't do that that at

:13:52.:13:57.

the Spending Review, they protected it at inflation. They didn't do

:13:57.:14:02.

what they were pledging to do at the general election. He will rue

:14:02.:14:05.

reading that quote out in the House of Commons. You would not have

:14:05.:14:11.

protected it. You have had your final words now..

:14:11.:14:18.

Now, last week, we heard a lot about a cat called Maya, she was in

:14:18.:14:23.

the news because the Home Secretary claimed her owner owner couldn't be

:14:23.:14:26.

deported because her owner had a cat.

:14:26.:14:31.

Theresa May Said this is an example of why we should get rid of the

:14:31.:14:35.

Human Rights Act. This provoked a spat after Clarke used -- Ken

:14:36.:14:39.

Clarke used colourful language to tell Theresa May that she was wrong.

:14:39.:14:47.

Why are so many people keen to get rid of the Act.

:14:47.:14:57.

Patrick O'Flynn tells us why he What do you think when I say the

:14:57.:15:00.

words, "Human Rights Act."? Well if opinion polls are to be believed,

:15:00.:15:10.
:15:10.:15:12.

the reaction of most of you will be You may not know this, but Winston

:15:12.:15:15.

Churchill dreamt up the European Convention on Human Rights after

:15:15.:15:19.

the Second World War. He wanted to ensure that totalitarian regime

:15:19.:15:26.

could spend up and oppress their peoples. That convention is now

:15:26.:15:29.

enshrined in British law in the Human Rights Act and many cases

:15:29.:15:35.

brought under it, end up here. But there are a few problems with that.

:15:35.:15:41.

Our Supreme Court is not Supreme at all. It remains Junior to the

:15:41.:15:45.

European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg. That's where judges of

:15:46.:15:51.

variable quality make decrees that inflamed British public opinion.

:15:51.:15:55.

And our own public officialdom are so scared of being sued under

:15:55.:16:00.

provisions of the Human Rights Act, they make crazy concessions. Like

:16:00.:16:04.

bringing a police van miles to transport a defendant just a few

:16:04.:16:08.

yards to a court house. Delivering hot food to a criminal perched on

:16:08.:16:18.
:16:18.:16:19.

someone else's roof. # I don't want to change the world.

:16:19.:16:23.

That is why I would like to see the Human Rights Act scrapped and

:16:23.:16:28.

Britain withdraw from the European Court. Instead we need a British

:16:28.:16:32.

Bill of Rights, just like David Cameron promised us before the last

:16:32.:16:37.

General Election. Now, last week we heard a lot about

:16:38.:16:47.
:16:48.:16:58.

Won't it ultimately be the same? rehab various players in this. We

:16:58.:17:00.

have public officialdom bearing ridiculously on the side of caution

:17:00.:17:05.

in avoiding having cases brought against them. The worst player in

:17:05.:17:08.

all of this is the European Court of Human Rights, which is a bunch

:17:09.:17:14.

of former polytechnic lecturers from the Balkan states, telling us

:17:14.:17:18.

about our human rights regime. But the Human Rights Act itself seems

:17:18.:17:23.

to have allowed judicial activism to make right that was supposed to

:17:23.:17:27.

be held in the balance. Were a British Bill of Rights change that?

:17:27.:17:31.

It wouldn't necessarily change would it, the European Court of

:17:31.:17:35.

Justice you have just outlined. It wouldn't make a difference.

:17:35.:17:40.

should be out with the European Court of Human Rights. The

:17:40.:17:44.

convention itself is a flexible instrument. David Cameron thought a

:17:44.:17:48.

British Bill of Rights could be framed with a more balanced towards

:17:49.:17:53.

responsibilities as well as rights that would restrain liberal judges,

:17:53.:17:57.

albeit of a higher quality than the Strasbourg judges. They will be

:17:57.:18:01.

pleased to hear that. It is not a high bar to get them across. They

:18:01.:18:06.

could still interpret the law, judges, the way they see it. They

:18:06.:18:09.

could still take into account those human rights elements if they saw

:18:10.:18:15.

fit, even under a British Bill of Rights. The bill could be drafted

:18:15.:18:18.

in such a way to balance the responsibilities and the rights of

:18:18.:18:22.

the innocent, which is something Alan Johnson was talking about in

:18:22.:18:29.

the Commons, in relation to the DNA database. We have the liberal left,

:18:29.:18:32.

pouncing on that cat and trivialising things, but not

:18:32.:18:38.

answering why you have a failed asylum seeker able to run over a

:18:38.:18:45.

child and leave her dying in the road and not be deported. And the

:18:45.:18:50.

Somalian who murdered the British police officer, Sharon

:18:50.:18:55.

Borysoglebski, he was not deported. The liberal left don't think these

:18:55.:19:00.

things are worth addressing. Wouldn't it go further, wouldn't

:19:00.:19:04.

Britain or the UK have to withdraw from the EU altogether in order to

:19:04.:19:07.

escape, as you would see it, from the European Convention on Human

:19:07.:19:12.

Rights? My many pro-European friends tell me it is not right. In

:19:12.:19:17.

any event that wouldn't be a problem for me. The Daily Express

:19:17.:19:21.

wants Britain to lead the European Union. But it is not something

:19:21.:19:25.

necessarily the Government will entertain. Something has to happen

:19:25.:19:29.

that is very unlikely to, which is withdrawing from the EU altogether

:19:29.:19:33.

at the moment? That is not what David Cameron said before the

:19:33.:19:37.

election when he framed the British Bill of Rights. Let's get to the

:19:38.:19:42.

cat, who was right? The claim from Theresa May it was used, she was

:19:42.:19:47.

used as part of the arguments for this Bolivian immigrant who had

:19:47.:19:53.

overstayed, to stay longer Clarke, claiming their right to a family

:19:53.:20:00.

life? Everybody sees there is abuse of the Human Rights Act, the treaty

:20:00.:20:05.

on Human Rights. It is dealing with what are obviously abuses, were

:20:05.:20:09.

common sense dictates we go one way and the courts interpret the Human

:20:09.:20:14.

Rights Act, or ultimately the treaty to take us another way. The

:20:14.:20:18.

Government is determined to tackle that situation, so we get

:20:18.:20:22.

commonsense and comes. That sounds reasonable, but how do you achieve

:20:22.:20:27.

it? How do you achieve that commonsense without overhauling the

:20:27.:20:33.

whole system? The Prime Minister has set up a Commission which is

:20:33.:20:37.

looking at all aspects of the Human Rights Act. It's one not be

:20:37.:20:43.

reporting for a long time. It will report back and then set out how we

:20:43.:20:47.

intend to go forward. In the meantime, the Home Secretary is

:20:47.:20:51.

clear that were incremental things can be done to improve the way the

:20:51.:20:56.

system works, to minimise the wrong and comes, if you like, she will do

:20:56.:21:01.

that. Let's get back to the original question, was Ken Clarke

:21:01.:21:06.

right, was it nonsense to use the example of the cat, or was Theresa

:21:06.:21:12.

May right? I don't think it was nonsense. The point Theresa May was

:21:12.:21:18.

using was an absurd example. she? Yes, the existence of a

:21:18.:21:23.

jointly owned cat, supposedly proved the existence of a family

:21:23.:21:28.

relationship. That in turn gave a right to remain. That seems like,

:21:28.:21:38.
:21:38.:21:40.

too many people... Most people reading a tabloid newspaper, would

:21:40.:21:46.

see this as ridiculous. So Ken Clarke was wrong? I think he was on

:21:46.:21:54.

this occasion. When he neighbour was in power, there were also

:21:54.:21:59.

criticisms of the Act? Misinterpretations of the Act

:21:59.:22:03.

brought it into disrepute. You are right to point the finger at the

:22:03.:22:08.

European Court. Prisoners voting rights, I cannot defend that. Where

:22:08.:22:12.

I disagree is to say you get rid of this Act and these rights

:22:12.:22:18.

altogether. These are right Britain cemented in Europe after the Second

:22:18.:22:22.

World War. They belong to everybody. If you got rid of the Human Rights

:22:22.:22:26.

Act, British people could still seek to have those rights and

:22:26.:22:30.

forced at European level. They were brought in to save people the time

:22:30.:22:36.

and the cost of going to Strasbourg. The right not to be tortured is an

:22:36.:22:41.

amiable, the right to a family life is caveat it. They are different

:22:41.:22:48.

rights. What I meant was, everybody has a right to a family life.

:22:48.:22:53.

there is no caveat to torture. There is to a family life. The

:22:53.:23:02.

judges never take the second part in two considerations. I agree with

:23:02.:23:08.

you on that. Patrick, what is your response? I would like to see an

:23:08.:23:12.

interim, very simple merger -- measure while the clever craftsman

:23:12.:23:17.

and lawyer sort it out, which it would be, if we were to pay human-

:23:17.:23:22.

rights the legal work at the rate of the minimum wage, then these

:23:22.:23:25.

lawyers who have made so much money over the last few years could prove

:23:26.:23:30.

to everyone and the British public they are in it for idealism and

:23:30.:23:36.

justice. I can sign up to that, too. Can you all signed up to that?

:23:36.:23:45.

will put it to be just a secretary. It is the justice secretary's

:23:45.:23:51.

budget that will benefit from this. A lack the ideas of lawyer's being

:23:51.:23:56.

on the minimum wage. One of the judges in the European Court is a

:23:56.:23:59.

TV presenter. We could do that. Guilty!

:23:59.:24:04.

You are fired. If you are a driver you live in

:24:04.:24:08.

fear of wheel clampers. The good news is the Government is going to

:24:08.:24:12.

do away with them, but the bad news is, you may get a ticket and a

:24:12.:24:16.

hefty fine instead. This is what happened to one motorist.

:24:16.:24:20.

We had been away on holiday and when we came back there was a lot

:24:20.:24:24.

of post behind the door. One of these letters was a letter from a

:24:25.:24:33.

company called G20 four. They were demanding �75 for parking in a car

:24:33.:24:41.

park for more than three hours. I frequently go to Wickes, but never

:24:41.:24:47.

more than 15 or 20 minutes. I knew it was wrong, I felt the company

:24:47.:24:51.

was like these camping organisations, just put out penalty

:24:51.:24:56.

charges and hope people pay them. We contacted the parking firm

:24:56.:25:02.

mentioned, they declined to comment. Luckily Mr Smith could prove he was

:25:02.:25:05.

parked somewhere else at the time and the fine was eventually waived.

:25:05.:25:15.

But only after he rode to the store's chief executive. -- wrote.

:25:15.:25:20.

Is it a growing problem? It is. Lots of tickets are issued

:25:20.:25:25.

automatically by cameras. Some of the letters are very threatening,

:25:26.:25:30.

they threaten credit reference agencies, debt collecting. But

:25:30.:25:34.

although they look official, there is no mandate. What kind of car

:25:34.:25:40.

parks are we talking about? Service areas, large out-of-town

:25:40.:25:44.

superstores and private land. you need to pay the ticket to get

:25:44.:25:49.

out in the first place? No, these are places you can park for a short

:25:49.:25:55.

time, two to three hours when you are buying a kitchen. People take a

:25:55.:25:59.

lot of time choosing, exceed the time limit. Then through the post a

:26:00.:26:04.

few weeks later, they get a ticket through the post. What is the

:26:04.:26:09.

Government's planning to do that will make it worse? We are glad

:26:09.:26:13.

wheel-clamping is to be scrapped. But we have got to tackle ticketing.

:26:13.:26:18.

We estimate 3 million private tickets are issued every year. It

:26:18.:26:22.

is an automated process. It is a huge privilege parking companies

:26:22.:26:27.

have to access drivers' names and addresses. But it is not regulated

:26:27.:26:31.

by the law, except by a trade association code of practice,

:26:31.:26:36.

signed up. He think it will get worse? We think it will grow

:26:36.:26:40.

because clamping is ending. thought you ending the war on

:26:40.:26:44.

motorists? The first important thing to say is we are scrapping

:26:44.:26:50.

wheel-clamping. Thanks for that, what about this? The problem with

:26:50.:26:56.

wheel-clamping is immediate. People feel they have to pay up because

:26:56.:27:00.

they cannot move their car. Stock filibustering an answer the

:27:00.:27:09.

questions. You can disputed afterwards. It's people have been

:27:09.:27:14.

charged �90 for staying two hours. Land owners, this is not just a

:27:14.:27:20.

cheap parking sites, it is big stores, university campuses, all

:27:20.:27:25.

these people have to be able to deal with non-compliant parking.

:27:25.:27:30.

The way they have to do with that is by issuing an having contractors

:27:30.:27:36.

who will issue tickets. What we are going to do under the act that has

:27:36.:27:41.

just passed the Commons, just gone through the Commons is to regulate

:27:41.:27:46.

through the BPA, with an appeal scheme through the BPA, the conduct

:27:46.:27:51.

of companies authorised to issue tickets. If they don't comply with

:27:51.:27:54.

the code of conduct, which the Home Secretary will have to approve,

:27:54.:28:00.

they won't be able to access the DVLA database. There will be a lot

:28:00.:28:06.

of aggravation before that. cannot accept a trade association

:28:06.:28:11.

arbitration process. It has to be fully approved. It will be approved

:28:11.:28:17.

by the Home Secretary. Is that good enough? Not for us, we wanted it

:28:17.:28:21.

regulated. Be needs to be independent and transparent. At the

:28:21.:28:27.

moment we don't feel it does the job. Vat on petrol and the war on

:28:28.:28:34.

motorists! That's it for today. Many of you got the competition

:28:34.:28:39.

right. We are still printing out your entries to choose the winner.

:28:39.:28:43.

2001 was the answer, we will pick the winner tomorrow. We thank all

:28:43.:28:49.

of our guests. We will be back tomorrow afternoon as usual with

:28:49.:28:52.

More questions for Liam Fox about his personal life and the role of his friend Adam Werritty. Can the defence secretary survive the drip-drip of allegations?

Unemployment's up again and it's young people who are feeling the brunt. A look at why the so-called baby busters face an uncertain future.

The Human Rights act is a threat to the British Way of Life - or is it all a bit of a cat flap? We hear from Patrick O'Flynn from the Express.

The government could be making it easier for private parking operators to fine you - we ask the transport secretary why.

The studio guests are Transport Secretary Philip Hammond and shadow health secretary Andy Burnham.