19/10/2011 Daily Politics


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Good morning. This is the Daily Politics.


There've been angry clashes at Dale Farm in Essex where dozens of riot


police have entered the camp to clear the illegal part of the


travellers' site. Two people were tasered this morning and one person,


so far, has been arrested. Officers were targeted with bricks and


rubble. We'll have the latest. Mervyn King warns time is running


out to solve the world economy. The governor of the Bank of England


says the recovery has gone off track and the consequences will


"inflict pain on everyone". Is our green and pleasant land


about to be ruined by the Government's proposed planning


legislation? Or is there a whiff of a U-turn on the horizon?


And talking of the countryside, as the EU prepares to reform the


Common Agricultural policy, we hear from one farmer who says it's a


lost opportunity. Yes all that and more, including


The next 90 minutes of TV bronze. We worry about the bureaucratic


proposals. And we worry about whether we are less competitive


rather than more competitive. All that and more, including Prime


Minister's Questions. Coming up in the next 90 minutes of TV bronze.


See how self-effacing we are! There is a terrible smell of blue in the


studio. Have you gone back to sniffing? No, I took my nail


varnish off before. And with us for the duration we have a match made


in heaven. Indeed the Demi Moore and Ashton Kutcher of Westminster.


The Environment Secretary, Caroline Spelman, and the newly-promoted


Shadow Business Secretary, Chuka Umanna. The BBC pronunciation


department scores they first. Welcome to you both.


First this morning let's turn to events at Dale Farm in Essex, where


after a long, legal battle riot police and bailiffs moved in this


morning to evict travellers, many of whom have lived there for over a


decade. Our correspondent is there. What is the latest?


The police and the bailiffs are still trying to dismantle the main


gate of Dale Farm. The 40 ft barrier. They went into the site


from the other side, from the friends behind the back. They went


in pretty swiftly and used Taser gun as and rocks and other missiles


were thrown at the police. And they are trying to get the protesters


down of the scaffolding, so they can clear away the barricades at


the front and get the emergency vehicles in. They need to put out


at least one fire that is burning inside Dale Farm and begin the


process of clearing the site of those illegal homes. It looks as if


the resistance is coming from the protesters as much as the


travellers, is this going to be a long, drawn-out process? I think it


is, I think the council was initially planning for this to take


eight weeks, and that was a month ago. We have had all of the legal


challenges since then. Although the number of travellers inside Dale


Farm and supporters have dwindled, we think most of the children are


already out. Some of the caravans have left. The number of supporters,


there were about 100 a few weeks ago, now down to about a couple of


dozen. It is an easier operation than it might of been, and some are


offering various degrees of resistance. Others are resisting


more peacefully. This is going to be a drawn-out process, not just


securing the site, but beginning the removal of those homes. Thanks


very much for the update. Now, earlier I spoke to the local


MP for the area, John Barron. I began by asking him whether he had


any sympathy for the families who were being evicted. These are


families that have broken the law. We cannot have in this country, our


law for one group of people and a law for another group of people.


These traveller families have been offered alternative accommodation.


They have refused that because they deem it to be bricks and mortar.


There are other alternative authorised sites around the country,


but they said they do not want to travel. Also the council has an


obligation to look after the elderly, the young and the


vulnerable from the site. Those that are displaced from the site.


Doesn't the council take some responsibility for having taken so


long to sort this out. After 10 years surely they have earned some


right to stay? The previous Government stock the council from


taking some action. But there were periods in the past, for up to two


years, the Labour Government stock Basildon council from taking action.


In that period, the site quadrupled in size. It is not local residents


fault and that they have been landed in this situation. Now we


have had to go through the courts, which has taken time. What impact


has that had on the wider constituency? What the law abiding


majority want and local people want is the law enforced equitably.


Otherwise it is the law-abiding society being prejudiced against.


What message would it send out to everybody else? Everybody would say,


if they can do it, why can't we get away with it and we would have


chaos. Caroline Spelman, has this been a sensible use of money? �22


million so far. You could have given them all a house? You cannot


have one law for the travelling community and a law for the settled


community. Everybody knows, you cannot just occupy a piece of green


belt land, green meadow, and rip off the turf and build what you


want. You have to have planning for mission. You let plenty of tents in


Westminster Square. If I put a tent in Hyde Park you would arrest me?


That is a separate issues. It is the same point? No, we need more


authorised sites for the travelling community. We provide more? Yes,


the new Government said we would provide an incentive to local


authorities that provide authorised sites for travellers. They would


have greater powers to enforce the law than on unauthorised sites.


Basildon has done its bit. But some of the surrounding councils don't


have provision for travellers. It is important that we provide for


both the travelling community, but make sure the law is upheld for


both the settled and the travelling community. They have been there for


10 years, where do they go now? they want to settle in Basildon,


like you or I want to settle in Basildon. If we were homeless


tomorrow we become a priority on the house and Liszt in Basildon.


That is if they want to settle her. A lot of these are fixed structures.


If that is what they want to do, prioritising the elderly, the


children and families. If you want to settle in a local authority area


and you are without a roof, you are homeless, you become a priority on


that housing list. Isn't that right, they have put a permanent


structures which means they are not travel as any more. Why should they


be able to do what the rest of us cannot do? We cannot just go up and


put houses up where we feel like it? It is important the law is a


poll but I wonder if there is a better way for the law to be upheld.


I don't know the answer. I have a site opposite might constituency.


These pictures are unprecedented. People having Taser gun as used on


them, and after this situation has been dealt with, Basildon council


will carry out an inquiry to see if they handled it correctly and


whether it could have been handled better. It sounds like you would


like your policy to be different than the Government's, but you


haven't got one? I am just being honest. There is no point in me


expressing huge outrage for the sake of doing so. Most people


watching this will look at that and think it is not every day you see


something like that happening. has taken 10 years? As I understand


it, they actually own the site but they're not allowed to build on it.


Part of it, they have legitimate planning. It is the part they


don't? Absolutely. One can either criticise a particular situation


and seek to learn from it, and I think that is what needs to happen.


Actually, the problem does go back a long way to a change in the Lord


John Prescott made. One of the difficulties is, councils have


spent taxpayers' money trying to tackle illegal or unauthorised


encampments. When we formed the Government we made a conscious


decision to change the law, to make sure we are able to answer this


question about how do you make sure there is an enforcement of the law


that you can make it work. But, there is plenty of provision for


those who want to travel. I think the package the Government has come


up with is the right one. We shall see how events develop today and


tomorrow as well. Now, listen carefully because this


is complicated but yesterday the Backbench Business Committee voted


to hold a debate on holding a vote to have a referendum on Britain's


membership of the European Union. We reported it on the programme


yesterday. Now many backbench Conservatives - and we know what a


lot of them think of the EU - may not be over the moon to hear that


David Cameron will order his MPs to vote against holding a referendum.


The Conservative MP, David Nuttall, who is expected to propose the


motion, next week is on College Green. How many Conservative MPs do


you expect to join you in this? Already we know from the order


paper that there are dozens and dozens of Conservative MPs who have


signed this motion. The total number of names on here, we have


had double more added this morning and we are up to 16 games to back


his emotions. Across all parties! As a Conservative MPs, did you say


60 MPs across all parties? Yes, across all parties. The vast


majority are Conservatives. There are some Labour members who had


signed. What about the Liberal Democrats? Would you be expecting


many more of those MPs to sign because it was in their manifesto?


Up to now, no Liberal Democrats have signed, but I would expect


them to sign it because after all it was in their manifesto. Lots of


voters who voted for them will want to see this motion passed next week


and they can have a say on this vital issue. I suppose one might


ask you did not stand on a platform and the Conservatives did not stand


on a platform for an in and out referendum. Do you have a mandate


for this? It is 36 years since we had a referendum on this issue. The


Conservatives at the last election stood on a platform at wanting to


renegotiate powers. This is provided for in the referendum I am


proposing. It is in line with what we stood on. I believe if this


legislation was passed, it would strengthen the hand of the


Government in any negotiations with the rest of the European nations.


It won't be binding will it, it will be indicative? I believe if


the House of Commons passes this motion, any Government would be


hard-pressed to ignore the Democratic will of the British


people as expressed through their democratically elected Members of


Parliament. You cannot be surprised David Parliament is going to try


and obviously get MPs not to support it? What matters is what is


good for the country and British businesses who are Bob down by red


tape from Brussels. They have to compete on the world stage and it


is about British jobs and securing a flourishing future of the three


enterprise in this country. That's what is behind this. Imagine if


there was the vote and Britain did leave the EU, what would happen in


terms of trade? We are long way from that. You are asking people to


vote, so what would happen? believe that as a trading nation,


most of our trade is with the rest of the world, some of it goes to


Europe. When somebody go shopping, do they really look were an item


was produced? No, they buy it because it is good quality and at


the right price. That is matters when you try to sell abroad. No


British housewife looks and says, I am not buying this because it


wasn't produced in the European Union.


I am going to dispute that, I do look at the like -- label. If


people want to buy British, you can look at a food label and with


I don't think this is a nightmare. The most important thing is what is


in the interest for the country right now. With the crisis in the


eurozone, from which we are not immune, it is clear having a


referendum about the membership of the European Union is not what is


needed now. He has said they would like to have one of the votes on a


renegotiating powers which was a promise by the Conservatives. Are


you going to keep that promise? will have a referendum, if there


was a treaty change which would see more power to Brussels, and that is


a commitment to stand by completely. The manifesto promise to


renegotiate and repatriate power. Yes, and if you look at their his


policies, this important negotiations right now about how to


conserve fish stocks, and that could be done with a much better


localised approach to make sure that the fishing industry closest


to the coastal waters that... You're not repatriating fishing


powers and that will you promise to do. It's designed to make sure we


have sustainable fish stocks for the future, and we have support


amongst other countries. Are there any others? If you take the reform


of the Common Agricultural Policy, which is coming up right now, as


part of a negotiation, we are do in conjunction with other member


states, the detailed implementation of that should be decided in the


context of the member states, because farming in Cyprus and the


UK are very different to. Why don't you let them have their vote? Why


don't the MPs have their boat and see what they say on the issue you


stood for at the election? Up at the election we said we would have


a referendum... Why won't you let them? I don't think it will help


the situation. People are worried about paying their mortgages, and


want the economic turmoil on the world stage and within Europe, just


be sorted out. No one is saying you should have a referendum now that


have it next year. Had it with the independent Scottish referendum.


The important point played in that interview, City have a good part of


our trade is in a Europe. It would be... Hold on a minute. 93% of our


trade would not be affected being inside or outside. It was


negotiated by GAT, so they couldn't put tariffs against us. What is


your answer to that? 40% of our trade is with other European


countries. Which would not be affected. Yes, it would.


wouldn't, because of they can't put tariffs against the rules. Not Just


parrots, but you seek to ensure a level playing field in a single


market. It's an advantage of the countries that operating on a


single playing field for the WTO rules cover both barriers. Andrew,


and talks have broken down. There is no agreement on trade


liberalisation. Yes, there is also its to bring in emerging markets


balls-up where is this huge demand for the referendum? I haven't had


one business meeting, another new been a couple of days now, and I'd


been in the team for many months now, and I haven't had one Business


asking me for a referendum on Europe. Right, Now it appears that


not a day goes by without more bad news on the economy. Last night the


governor of the Bank of England, some might mistake him for the


harbinger of doom these days, gave us a sober assessment of the


economic situation. Mervyn King said Britain must use the gravity


of the global crisis to provoke a bold response. Jo bring us up to


speed. Each day there is news of fresh economic woes both at home


and abroad. Let's just take a quick snapshot of what we have learnt in


the last 24 hours. Yesterday morning, the latest inflation


figures were published with the consumer price index hitting 5.2%,


and the retail price index a massive 5.6% The figures published


yesterday showed that gas prices have gone up by 13% since August.


And electricity has gone up by 7.5%. Then last night the Governor of the


Bank of England Mervyn King warned that the time is running out to


solve the world economic crisis and that the consequences threatened to


inflict pain on everyone. Over in Greece, a 48 hour general strike


has begun as parliament prepares to vote on the latest round of


spending cuts and tax increases. And ahead of the EU Summit this


weekend, President Sarkozy said of the crisis facing the single


currency that allowing the destruction of the euro is to risk


of the destruction of Europe. British people are now going


through the severest squeeze on their living standards since the


1920s. What are you doing about it? We need to be clear what the


Government can and can't do. There are two things which are beyond our


control completely. The rising commodity prices for food because


of increasing population and rising energy prices. They haven't risen


since 2008. Not on energy prices. They are way off the peak. Allow


fuel bills are still rising. Energy prices rose in at 2008, the retail


price rose as well. They have fallen since. Our retail prices are


still rising. So what will you do? There are things you can and can't


do. Particularly on energy prices helping people paying their bills


despite the scaremongering. We have kept the winter fuel allowance for


pensioners at �200. After that two severe winters we have had and


possibly another one to come, it's important to help the vulnerable


families because it's important for people to stay warm. It doesn't do


anything for the squeeze the middle. The most important thing we can do


is help people to reduce their energy consumption. The green deal


is designed to help everyone. It makes a difference. If you fit


homes would double glazing you can halve your energy bill. Your


response to the severest squeeze on living standards since 1925 is


double glazing? I'm telling you what we can do. What is basically


nothing. We need to produce more food because it's in short supply,


so the number one priority is to produce more food and to produce it


at less cost. That's not going to happen overnight for the are you


going to pay for my double glazing? You can draw down �6,000 of capital


to suit your property. I'm supposed to do this at a time when average


pay is rising by less than 2%, and prices are rising by 6%? It doesn't


come out of your pay packet but drawn down over your utility bills


over a number of time, because people don't have the capital right


now to I play on energy conservation. Basically, other than


things on the margin, there is very little the Government can do to


ameliorate this terrible squeeze on living standards? We can't change


the trajectory of world prices but we can do things to help are


vulnerable families. Overall, with food, we need to produce more food


because of supply and demand. have said all that. The Governor


said last night the root cause of the debt crisis was unsustainably


high levels of consumption by governments, companies, and


individuals. Who presided over that? I'm not sure. Your hinting at


certain conclusions there. I'm not sure we have the financial problems


we have now because we spent historically too much on schools,


hospitals he's just saying governments, companies and


individuals all borrowed too much. And it was unsustainable and the


party would have to end. Who presided over this unsustainable


borrowing in all three sectors? were in power for 13 years, that's


a fact. In relation to private consumption, and spending and its


place in our overall GDP, we need to rebalance the economy so we are


not reliant so much on consumption, which makes up two-thirds of GDP.


We need to build and Grover's other sectors, like manufacturing. --


grow those other sectors. In so far as the public sector debt is


concerned, clearly, we wouldn't be in the situation we are now were it


not for the financial crisis which found itself in the banking sector.


Things would be very difficult and different now had not been for that.


The key way to resolve these things is to get growth and jobs back and


the economy because we had 2.5 7 million unemployed people at the


moment and we have to pay them benefits, and they don't pay income


tax so, ultimately, it costs us about half a billion pounds, for


the more people we get back into work, the quicker we will be able


to resolve the issues of the public sector debt. How do you do that but


we will come back to that of. We will have the Guess The Year


competition and then PM queues for the -- pm at questions. A new


presenter has seen the ratings plummet, there have been newspaper


reports of feuding talent and the critics are beginning to wonder if


the show is past its best. No, we haven't lost our X Factor. How


could we? But you've got to feel sorry for poor old Simon Cowell,


whose show has it appears. Luckily, me and my Sinitta have got some


advice. Simon, don't worry about the songs or the stylists. You can


have mine. Forget winning the �27,000 mini. If you want to keep


your audience, it's all about having this very special prize.


get better every week. Doesn't it? We'll remind you how to enter in a


minute, but let's see if you can At least 18 people have died and


thousands more injured in these spontaneous riots which the


Apology for the loss of subtitles for 53 seconds


Governor of California has termed a Nostalgia rules. To be in with a


chance of winning a Daily Politics mug, send your answer to our


special quiz email address. That's [email protected] And you can see


the full terms and conditions for Guess The Year on our website.


That's bbc.co.uk / dailypolitics. It's coming up to midday here. Just


take a look at Big Ben. There it is framed in a beautiful blue sky.


It's Wednesday. And that can mean only one thing. Yes, Prime


Minister's Questions is on its way. Before we head over to the Commons


we've been joined by Matthew Parris of the Times. Welcome back. Good to


see you. What should Mr Miliband go on today? In a cornucopia of


choice? There will be up to be something about Liam Fox, but my


guess is that he will hit the economy had a, and the inflation


figures. -- harder. I would have thought he doesn't want to appear


to political but would want to appear on the side of ordinary


people, or not thinking a lot about Dr Fox, and nothing about the way


the Government benefits, pensions, would actually be going up as much


as inflation and inflation is going up faster than people thought.


would you advise him to go on? There is a cornucopia of issues.


What would I go on? Liam Fox is the issue of the moment. For ordinary


people? His life work is undone. He's lost his job. Maybe the issue


of the moment is not the issue brought up with me on the doorstep.


We have not mentioned at this morning for the only you. Didn't


you? Matthew just mentioned it. is the bubble personified. So I


think it will be the big issue for people at the moment, the economy.


But we will wait and see. Mr Miller and, despite -- Ed Miliband never


sounds totally in command when it comes to the economy. It's


difficult to sound in command when it you are a new Leader of the


Opposition. Margaret Thatcher shadow the Chancellor before she


became leader of the Conservative Party and she never sounded much in


command, either. It comes with experience, and he's got plenty of


time. One of the things which strikes me about the political


elite on the left and right at the moment is a total absence of


credible policy. Alternatives to what's happening at the moment.


which makes politics quite interesting in one sense but in the


other sense, quite a doll. We are being forced down the same channel.


-- quite dull. Caroline would disagree with me on this. There has


been, since the crash in at 2008, two quite distinct positions. In


some senses, grounded in the party attitudes towards the state and how


much it should intervene. I think there are real differences in


approach. What is the major difference? Our five-point plan for


growth shows the Government doing things for demand and we don't


think the state is the answer to everything but I suppose we take a


more benign view than ideological, the Conservatives would do. We will


come back to that. Let's go to the I am sure the whole House will wish


to join me in remembering rifleman DJ ride from the Gurkha Rifles. He


was a talented soldier. He was proud to be a Gurkha and it is at


times like these we remembered the deep debt of gratitude we owe those


brave soldiers. I had meetings this morning with ministerial colleagues


and others and I will have such further meetings later.


Can I commend and share the views of the Prime Minister concerning


our brave military personnel. Is the Prime Minister a word that this


year we are commemorating the 75th anniversary of the Jarrow march?


Isn't it wrong that even today, people in this country living fear


of the door and unemployment? The Government have been in a year and


already we are back to the 1980s. Can I ask the Prime Minister


question? Will he be supporting workers or will he be sacrificing


them? I believe we need to be supporting people and helping them


back into work. We should commemorate the Jarrow march, and I


noticed it has been commemorated this year. We have a challenge


across the country as we see numbers employed in the public


sector inevitably go down. And that would be happening whoever was


standing here. We have to make sure there are more jobs in the private


sector. In the north-east, we seem Nissan is creating 200 jobs,


Hitachi have to 500 jobs, the Lear Corporation up to 300 jobs and BT


are creating an extra two wounded 80 jobs in South seals. There are


half a million more private sector jobs compared at the time of the


election. I agree we need to do more.


Can I congratulate the Prime Minister... Are on his joint


declaration with Canadian Prime Minister on Ocean renewable


energies. Obviously we need to make sure we have growth in our economy.


May I ask as to what he thinks universities such as Plymouth, who


have a very good reputation for marine research, can do to try and


help? I commend him for his question, because there are a


number of universities across the country, and including Edinburgh,


which I visited. They are leaders in marine renewable energy and


yesterday the climate change Secretary announced we will be


going ahead with the renewable obligations certificates, making


sure we Bruce this industry and attract jobs to this country for


offshore wind and other renewable technologies. -- boost.


Can I join the Prime Minister in paying tribute to the riflemen from


2nd Battalion the Royal Gurkha Rifles in joining the army was


following a proud family tradition. He showed the utmost courage and


bravery and our condolences are with his family and friends. The


revelations over the last week about what has been going on in the


most sensitive department at the heart of the governments are


worrying. The former Defence Secretary had an unofficial adviser


with access to top officials in the military and foreign governments,


funded by undeclared, private donations solicited by him. Yet the


Prime Minister says he and Number Ten knew nothing about these goings


on for 18 months. How did he allow this to happen?


I agree with him, this is an important and serious issue and


that is why I set up a proper inquiry, by the Cabinet Secretary.


He has produced that report and the report has been published. I do


think it is worth, Mr Speaker, recognising in this case, the


Secretary of State for Defence recognised he made a mistake,


acknowledged team broke the ministerial code and resigned. That


is not something that always happened in the last 13 years!


Miliband. Mr Speaker, a piece of advice to the Prime Minister, this


week of all weeks, show a bit of humility! And the truth is, we


still don't know the full facts about his case. About the money


trail, about to be in the Government Messer Adam Werritty. It


is becoming clear there were a network of individuals who funded


Mr Werritty, some with close links to the Conservative Party and


others close links to the Cabinet. Giving he says he knew nothing


about the arrangements of the former Defence Secretary, can he


get this house a categorical guarantee that over the last 18


months, no other Government minister has been engaging in


similar activities? I think we should have a little bit of


humility from the people who gave us cabs for hire, passports of


favours, mortgages for maids! Dodgy de Souza. -- dodgy dossier. These


are the questions he was meant to ask last week. Perhaps I have some


advice for him - if you jump on a bandwagon, make sure it is still


moving! Ed Miliband. Mr Speaker, no answers to the questions people


want answers. This is a Prime Minister and we see a pattern of


activity. He does not ask the tough questions of those around him and


when anything goes wrong, it is nothing to do with him. What did he


say in the ministerial code? He said, it is not enough simply to


make a difference, we must be different. And in the last three


months we have seen his Defence Secretary resign in disgrace and


his spin doctor arrested. Is that what he meant about being


different? He seems to have failed to notice the minister in question


has resigned. You're just a bit late!


Would my Right Honourable Friend agree that at a time when... Order.


Would my Right Honourable friend agreed that at a time when the


Governor of the Bank of England has said we are facing possibly an


unprecedented economic crisis, it is a good thing this country is


still committed to getting debt under control, and to retaining


credibility in the financial He makes an important point. People


should listen to the Governor of the Bank of England when he served


with a lower level of sterling we were on track. But the problems in


the Euro area and a marked slowing of the economy have length and the


big period that their returns to normality is likely. We should


stick to the plan of dealing with debts and deficits. If we listen to


the party opposite and added �23 billion to the deficit this year,


it wouldn't be Greek economics, it would be freed Economics.


Mr Speaker, the Speaker has acknowledged there was collusion in


the murder of Pat Finucane. Does he accept in order to get to the


bottom of that, we have to get to the top of that? Does he recognise


many of us lack confidence that a review by even an eminent lawyer is


going to be able to do that, and will he reflect further on the


grave misgivings reflected by the family and the Irish Government?


course I accept the scepticism. But there was scepticism at the time of


the inquiry as to whether that would get to the truth. What


matters is the intent of the British Government in uncovering


what happened, being frank about it, acknowledging it and apologising


for it. You don't need an open- ended inquiry to achieve that. To


those who are sceptical, I know they will go on being sceptical,


just have an open mind and I believe we can deal with this issue


properly. Will a prime Minister join me in congratulating my


Gorrell council -- Borough Council in building the first council


housing in many years. But also recognise their anxiety the first


draft of the new national planning policy framework could render them


powerless to defend treasured and green spaces on the urban fringe


which are being deliberately targeted by developers? Let me


reassure him on the planning policy. We are not making changes to green


belt and other protections. He can discuss that with the planning


minister. I congratulate all local councils to build the badly-needed


houses we need and deal with overcrowding. I am sure he will


welcome the announcement that have been made and the Deputy Prime


Minister and I have been working closely on this, to make sure use


money from the right to buy to build more social housing so we end


the scandal of overcrowded housing. Can I thank you and your staff and


put on record my gratitude to the Home Secretary and all sides of the


House for their support for their Hillsborough families during the


debate on Monday. Will the Prime Minister acknowledged governments


have made mistakes, that 22 years is 22 years to too long to fight


for the truth. If it is proven there was an orchestrated cover-up,


justice should still prevail? And those really responsible for the


Hillsborough disaster should be brought to book? First of all, let


me say to him, last week I promised him the time for his debate would


be properly protected and the house would have a proper time to debate


it, which it did. Yes we are going to open up those papers and publish


the papers as promised, so people can see what was happening. I would


say it is important to remember, the Taylor inquiry was a proper


investigation, it led to huge changes in the way we manage and


arrange football in this country. Hillsborough was a national tragedy,


I am sympathetic to the families of the victims and I'm sure there are


regrets from all the institutions involved at the time, including the


Government. The Prime Minister has giving his backing to national


heroes Day this Friday, 21st October. Will he commend hundreds


of schools taking part celebrating inspirational role models and


raising money for help for heroes? I am very pleased to do that, I am


a huge fan. It has been a remarkable story how that charity


has grown. I have seen for myself the extraordinary efforts they have


made at Headley Court, where they have built this swimming-pool which


is used by so many people recovering from their injuries in


Afghanistan and elsewhere. I am pleased to support what he says.


Miliband. Last week we heard unemployment was


at its highest level since the last Conservative Government. This week


we heard retail price inflation was at its highest level since the last


Conservative Government. Does the Prime Minister still think his plan


is working? CPI, the measure of inflation we all now recognise, the


last time CPI was as high as this was in 2080 when he was in


Government. -- 2008. Inflation is too high, the principal reasons for


inflation being high of world food prices, fuel prices, the


depreciation of sterling and yes, there was an effect on the increase


in VAT, just as there was an effect when he increased VAT at the


beginning of 2010. But the reason for increasing VAT is to get on top


of the record at this at the last Government left.


As always the Prime Minister says it is just like that in the rest of


the world. We have the highest inflation than any other EU country


apart from Estonia. It is decisions he made, including VAT. The


evidence mounts his plan is not working and he just refuses to


change course. Lastly, we heard his flagship National Insurance scheme


had not worked. Now let me ask him about his flagship regional growth


fund which he launched 16 months ago. Can he tell us how many


businesses have had cash paid out One of the reasons why Britain has


such a difficult situation with inflation is we would be country


with the biggest boom and bust of any European country. He cannot


hide from that. The regional growth fund will distribute billions of


pounds it right across the country and it's a thoroughly worthwhile


scheme he should be supporting. don't think he knows the answer, Mr


Speaker. Mr Speaker, they have certainly issued lots of press


releases about the regional growth fund. 22, but how many businesses


have been helped in the last 16 months? Two. Two businesses in the


16 months. And how many have gone bankrupt in that time? 16,000. What


greater example can there be on the way this Government's plan is not


working. We've had 18 months of his economic experiment and what have


you got to show for it? More and more people losing jobs, businesses


going bust and inflation through the roof, and all we have is a


prime minister who is hopelessly out of touch. Because all he wants


to do is talk down the economy. He won't mention the fact that there


are 300,000 new businesses started. There are 500,000 people who got


jobs who didn't have them at the time of the election, but the big


question is, if he doesn't like our plan, where is his plan? We now


know his plan to deal with our debts is to... Order. Organised


barracking is not acceptable for the Prime Minister must be heard.


His plan is to add �23 billion to Britain's deficit this year and


almost �100 billion up by the end of the parliament, but there is not


one single country in Europe that Order! We are grateful to the


shadow chancellor followed advice but I would like him up to applied


to the House as a whole. The House must come down up. The Prime


Minister. The problem is, it was his advice which got us into this


mess in the first place. When is he going to learn there is not a


single country in a Europe that things you deal with your debts by


adding to your debts? That's why nobody listens to him here or in


Europe. Yesterday, a report was published in to the serious


failings by Nottinghamshire police to protect a young woman who went


on to be murdered by her violent partner. Would the Prime Minister


agree with me, it is imperative all police forces have the practices,


policies and the training to protect women from violent men?


absolutely agree. The point she makes is important because some


police forces have made huge steps forwards in domestic violence but


not all have, and we need to spread that best practice and recognise it


across the country. The Association of college principals has just


announced the largest fall in college enrolments since 1999 and


cite the abolition of EMA as a factor. It's a tragedy of the


Government's own making and lies directly at the door of the


Secretary of State for Education. What does the Prime Minister going


to do to put this right? figures actually show that some end


Romans had gone up and if you look at our replacement for EMA, it's a


well funded scheme which would be much better targeted on those


people in need of. People will get more under EMA. The families in the


country are facing very high fuel bills and there's a vested interest


by the Big Six feel companies not to allow competition into the


market. What of the primer so doing to bring more competition to get


prices down? One thing we are doing is insisting the Big Six up to make


more of their energy available into a pooling arrangement so new


businesses can come into this industry. The last government


abolished the pooling arrangements and created a situation with the


Big Six, and we don't have to ask who the energy secretary was in


that government. We are looking at him. Given the importance of carbon


capture and storage, as a way of helping reduce our carbon emissions


and also as an exporter will technology to rebalance the economy,


will the Prime Minister put his words into action and in short the


organic demonstration project goes ahead? What I can say is the


funding we set aside for carbon capture and storage is still there.


It will be made available. The scheme has not working in the way


they intended but the money from the Government, the support, is


there. Given the huge savings the nation made by the Cabinet Office


is across government without legislation, and a huge financial


risks provoked by constant structure reorganisation of the NHS,


wouldn't it be better at politicians learn to manage more


and medal less, even if the governments find the latter more


interesting? He makes an important point. Let me pay tribute to a


member for Horsham who does this very patient work at the heart of


government and doesn't always get recognised for it but we have


reduced management consultants by 70%, saving �870 million. We have


spent less on lay bat, temporary labour, spent less on marketing and


advertising. These are serious changes to cost things and provide


good value for money. None of these things were done under the last


government to put up the Prime Minister claimed before the


election anyone carrying a knife should go to prison. Has he read a


Brooke Kinsella's article in today's Sun newspaper revealing 40%


of knife crime is carried out by under 18? Why won't he put them in


jail? A we are doing something the last government failed to do,


create a mandatory sentence for adults caught with knives to make


sure that happens. The British people are simply crying out for a


referendum on the future of the Europe. Will he please make history


and follow the example of great prime ministers like Winston


Churchill and Margaret Thatcher and given the British people a chance


to vote on our future with the EU? I completely understand and share


the frustration that many have about the way the European Union


goes about its business, the bureaucracy, but I have to say, the


key focus here is to get on top of the EU budget, keeping Britain out


of the bail-out scheme, and make sure the single market is working.


Of course, we are committed to the return of powers from Brussels to


Westminster. We are committed as a government that if power passes


from Brussels there would have to be a referendum. That promise is


good for this Parliament and beyond but I don't support holding a


referendum come what may. I will not be supporting a motion. We are


aware of the courage of our armed forces as they serve and


Afghanistan. Last November, Major Ian McCormick from Coleraine in my


constituency, died in Helmand province, one of many but he paid


the highest price to defend freedom. His commanding officer said today


there is a gap in their ranks which no ordinary man can fill. He was


the best of his country and we mourn his loss. What the Prime


Minister ensure he will review the way the Ministry of Defence


prepares its honours list so families will see the entire nation


recognises the sacrifice and selflessness of these brave men and


women? I will certainly look very carefully at what he says and


perhaps arrange a meeting with him and the Minister for other veterans


and the honourable member for Blaby. I think it would be a good thing to


do. I had the highest possible regard for the professionalism,


courage, dedication of our forces are also we paid a high price in


Afghanistan and Iraq for all we had to do there, and the whole country,


actually, recognises that and feels that very strongly and are looking


for new ways to recognise what the armed forces do. That's why there's


such strong support for help for heroes and homecoming parades for


honours lists, the military government and those sorts of


things. I think we should recognise this service and sacrifice.


Inaccurate reporting and statements about a European director of that


applies to insulin-dependent diabetics seize up to one million


such people fearing for their driving licence, but is it not the


case, it's for the Department of Transport and how it interprets


this directives which will determine whether or not some body


loses their licence? When the Prime Minister make the position clear?


will try to do that. I understand his concern and it is shared by


many insulintreated diabetics across the country who want to go


on driving. I can reassure him that, relatively few people will lose


their licence as a result of this director's. The DVLA is going back


to the European Commission to check its understanding of the


interpretation of the minimum standards of this director's. On


too many occasion, gold-plated directives should be stopped it.


The British airports Authority's is selling Edinburgh Airport. Does he


agree it's important others many international routes and services


as possible. Why does the honours and the views of the four major


transport in Scotland who wish to see the devolution of air passenger


duty? We will listen carefully to these arguments balls-up Investment


should go and the infrastructure of airports. I know Edinburgh airport


has a superb facilities and they are being improved. We will go on


listening to those arguments are. Does he agree, private schools a


lot well before then she not only support underperforming schools but


also encourage them to federate? This should be cross-party


initiative and I pay tribute to Lord Adonis who live think is made


some extremely important speeches on this issue. There's an


opportunity for independent school to sponsor academies in the state


sector. I think we can to the breaking down of the barriers


between independent and state education. I hope this will have


all-party support. A change in the national targets regime have led to


the murders his services in Greater Manchester being in the disarray. -


- emergency services. The response time of the fire service has


doubled in parts of Greater Manchester and the police


switchboard is in meltdown. What reassurances can the Prime Minister


give to the House they won't be a tragic death because of this


failure in the service? I will look carefully at what the honourable


gentleman says balls of we are carrying out the �20 billion of


savings carried out by the Health Secretary but the depth of between


our policies, we are putting those savings back into the NHS whereas


the official Labour position is increasing spending in real terms


on the NHS is irresponsible balls- up we think it's irresponsible not


to do that. David Brown's spending in my constituency, being in


receipt of a regional growth and investment, that will help to


create 80 new jobs, does the Prime Minister agree with me that despite


the my brain and doom-mongering opposite, there are success stories


out there, and will he opened the new innovation and enterprise


centre at Huddersfield University in the spring? What a delightful


invitation. Can I thank the honourable gentleman. Or does. --


order. What he has managed to show his the first lot of questions were


irrelevant and the second set of questions were wrong. Mr Speaker,


the answer the prime minister just gave just isn't good enough. The


fact is, despite all his promises, but fewer people carrying knives


are going to prison so will we apologise to broken seller and


other bereaved families back Brooke Kinsella, for breaking the promises


he made that he would take a tougher approach. It's a brave


thing, her campaign, when you have lost a campaign in your own family


to campaign for change in the law and also the way the police behave,


young people behave. I think she is a thoroughly good individual with a


very great campaigner. What we are doing under this government is have


a mandatory sentence for knife crime and that will be introduced


in the forthcoming Bill. My Right Honourable friend, will hear


support the Royal College of speech therapist giving voice campaign


which is emphasising the central importance of speech, language and


communication in tackling a wide range of social issues. I will


certainly join my honourable friend doing that. This is an issue way


take a close personal interest as well. For anyone who has brought up


disabled children, they know the importance of speech therapists and


know this not another bum to provide a help and services we need


and no getting their services can be extremely tough, so I certainly


agree with what he says. The Prime Minister, Leno at officials from


other governments were given the impression that the former Defence


Secretary's an official adviser represented at the UK government --


an official. How many people were misled and rarely provide a list?


He should read the report by the Cabinet Secretary and he will find


in there all the details the needs about what's Adam Werritty was


doing. It comes El from a party to Even the former leader, in the last


two months, has got �120,000 for speeches to Credit Suisse, Visa and


he told us he was going to put money into the banks. We did not


know he was going to get it out so Does the Prime Minister accept that


moves towards will undermine the He makes an extremely important


point, which while we believe the logic of a single currency drives


fiscal integration, it poses particular threats and risks to


those of us who want the single market to work properly. It is


important to argue for safeguards, to make sure the single market


remains properly protected. Of course, in the longer term it maybe


there will be further moves towards further treaties and the rest of it.


They may be opportunities to bring further powers back to Britain and


then maybe powers Best opportunities for a recommend --


referendum. We have so much to do to get Europe to sort its problems


out. Michael Meacher. The statutory register of lobbyists, will the


Prime Minister also ensure so- called think-tanks, whose


propaganda is clearly aimed to manipulate both ministers and the


public for their own ends, should be required to reveal who


ultimately funds them, so we all know whose interests they really


represent? We are committed to having a statutory register and it


does need to be put in place. In needs to include think tanks and


other organisations. It also needs to include the lobby that owns the


party opposite, lock, stock and trade-union barrel - the trade


There was a switch to the economy, and a lot of argy-bargy. Whether


there was any wisdom, is a matter for you to judge.


It is split into two on Liam Fox and the economies.


Lorna Taylor says! David Cameron is a disgrace, he did not answer the


questions, I am so angry". From Phillip Taylor in Cheshire"


very angry, people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones".


John says people are concerned about Liam Fox more than the


economy and unemployment. David Holmes in Newcastle" I am


impressed by David Miliband for the first time ever, had David Cameron


on the back foot on the economy". This from Simon Green in


Southampton"somebody shut Ed Miliband up, his party was in power


for 13 years and their policies have put this company on its knees".


This one from someone in author, David Cameron is in Government and


not in opposition. The Prime Minister accuses the


opposition of talking down the economy, has he forgotten all he


has done for the last six years is precisely that.


I am glad John from Edinburgh is watching, because it means Scotland


is watching. He could be watching for London


feed of the Sky television system. Is there any mileage, Matthew


Parris in Liam Fox? I wouldn't have thought so from the party political


point of view. Everybody knows Mr Murphy was rather slow in getting


on to that particular bandwagon. I think the Prime Minister's joke


that it was too late to join the bus because it had stopped had hit


home. I think the story remains interesting, and the question Ed


Miliband asked, why didn't the Prime Minister know about this, it


is an important question but it is not important for the party-


political dogfight. So no party political advantage? He don't only


as questions for party political advantage, believe it or not!


Prime Minister's Questions, you do. You don't only, you keep butting


into me today Andrews. You also have a function to scrutinise what


Government is doing. Ed Miliband asked, what guarantees can the


Prime Minister give, the kind of practices that shadow advisory


operation that Liam Fox had in place, what guarantees can he give


no other minister has that kind of operation in place and what is he


doing to provide the public with confidence. What the public don't


like in my view and that is what is reflected in commence in my


constituency, they don't like power and influence they cannot see.


Transparency is key. Questions are remaining un answered. I am sorry


to interrupt you again, but do you have your phone on? Do you have a


phone on you? Is it on? I don't think so. It is interfering with


sound. I had to interrupt you there. If you have it on, can you switch


it off because Ahsan people will be very grateful. How can you


guarantee another minister is not running his own shadow operation?


The rules have changed regarding ministerial conduct. We have to be


transparent about the meetings we have with people in the department,


any hospitality we receive, any gifts we receive and put it in the


public domain. None of that would have stopped George


Papaconstantinou? Anyone would have seen who you were meeting on.


Nothing was done about it. What the Prime Minister launched, what more


safeguards can be put in place? So we make sure ministers abide by the


ministerial code. By the letter and the spirit of it. At the end of the


day, what a great wrong was done? I understand the stupidity. I


understand the bizarre arrangement to have someone almost helping you


to have your own shadow policy, but what wrong was done? We don't know,


because we don't have the answers to the questions. There are a set


of facts for potential wrongdoing and the public need to be given


confidence there hasn't been wrong doing. And if there has, action


will be taken. As things stand at the moment, you cannot tell me what


great wrong was done? On a basic level in terms of the facts we do


know, if you asked most people up and down the country, do you think


it is acceptable, is it right for someone to take one of their mates


along to a meeting? That is down as stupid. What is wrong? That is very


serious. There aren't many people around the Cabinet table who have


special brands protection. That is because not everybody is dealing


with serious matters for the Ministry of Defence. That is why it


is wrong to take you made a long to meetings. Also, Adam Werritty's


financial backers, they have shelled out a lot of money for no


discernible influence. And that is their problem. His senior Cabinet


Minister was trying to build up a power base and was probably failing,


but he shouldn't have been allowed to try in that way. Let's go back


to the economy, which I suggest effects your constituents more than


the fate of Dr Fox. You have a situation where unemployment is at


a modern high and inflation is at a modern hype. We used to call that


stagflation, the economy is in growing and inflation is high. Did


you ever thing under this coalition you would return to stagflation?


need to address absolutely, the question on how to get the economy


growing again. It on blocks of the situation, the economic situation


we are in. The decisions we have taken to tackle the debt we have


inherited has restored Britain's credit rating. Had we not done that,


interest rates would be higher. You scoff, but it is true. It is true


Mervyn King has endorsed this, the UK's plan to reduce debt is the


right plan. Like a man on a salary of 20,000, lived on a salary of


30,000 for 10 years. Given countries who were not regarded as


having credible reduction plans... Have high interest rates. Can I ask


the question? Greece, Italy, France, Spain, now paying more for their


Government bonds and we pay far ours? The payment term on our debts


is longer. It is not for France? You have talked about Greece, Italy


and Spain. The term on our debt is longer than it is for those


countries collectively. Interest rates were falling when we left


Government. One of the biggest drivers we have low interest rates


is we're not in the eurozone and thank God Gordon Brown does not


take us into that. Of course we have got to reduce the deficit, but


you cannot do that without growth. That is the problem, we don't have


growth. We saw record borrowing in August, the highest level of


borrowing for a Government. Over the course of this Parliament, we


will see it �46 billion higher. your standards, that is the good


thing. You want borrowing to be higher? They say they have a plan


and it is working. But it isn't working. We have a plan, Matthew


Parris coins this important phrase, it is payback time for the UK. We


have got to pay back and grow the economy. Perfectly possible to do


both things. You are not doing it. We are doing it. Everybody agrees


growth is needed, the Labour Party keep shouting Winnie growth, growth,


why isn't the Government doing anything about growth. Ensure


privately George Osborne and David Cameron are worried about gross.


Nobody knows how to get it. Money has been Ponton to the economy, --


pumped into the economy. I don't agree with this idea nobody knows


what to do about it. We are quite a consumption led economy. The drop


in confidence which fell off a cliff after the Comprehensive


Spending Review was announced, has had an impact on the man, so people


have not been spending. If you look at the measures in a five-point


plan... If you look at what happened, one of the points of it


was to reduce VAT, they raise you imposed on families this year. When


we did that at the end of financial -- to 1008. The last time we had a


financial crisis we did that, we put �11 billion, and people went to


spend �8 billion into the economy and it led to an increase. In terms


of the extra borrowing at that time, it is a favourite of yours to ask


for year and get a specific figure, but I do know... I am not worried


about 2008, I am asking you now, this Government will borrow around


125 billion, more than planned, which is 120 tears. It is about 10%


of the GDP. How much would you borrow? If you look at the Alastair


Darling plan, look at the gap between the parties going forward.


There is a gap of 8 billion. Alastair Darling plan did not


include a cut in VAT? It was a different situation in a different


scenario. If you are Max out on your credit card, you don't borrow


more money. We are forgetting there are emerging markets, China, Brazil.


China's growth is falling as well. Germany exports more to China than


the whole of Europe put together. If there isn't an opportunity for


British-made products to export to those markets - it we cannot see


that, we are staring an opportunity in the face, an export-led recovery


is what the Government... Let's finish on the departments of


business which is run by the coalition Government. Citing


bureaucratic snags is conceding the 1.4 billion Growth Fund has


dispersed 1.5 �8 million. Why his The answer is you have got to give


value for money. If they don't provide that, we aren't any


position... Caroline, the money has not gone through. Now did you know


that if you're a taxpayer, you pay �107 every year to farmers. The


money forms part of the Common Agricultural policy, or CAP. And it


accounts for 40% of EU spending. Many governments have tried to


reform it. None have ever really succeeded. But the EU have decided


to have another go. We asked one farmer to explain why he thinks the


CAP project -- protect us from volatility in the market and at the


same time protects the consumer from volatility in food prices and


enables farmers to farm on the hills and other disadvantaged areas


where they provide a valuable landscape and other assets which


are incredibly important to the British public and also to tourism


We quite like the proposals from the CAP reform, they encourage


young Popple -- people do come into the industry and more research and


development. We worry about the complicated bureaucratic nature of


the proposals and we also worry about the fact that they might well


mean we are less competitive up rather than more competitive as a


result of the reforms. We need to be more market orientated so that


we become less reliant on payments from Europe for the it's incredibly


important to talk about the challenges ahead of us. Sir John


Beddington, the chief scientist of the Government, says we have to


produce more food in the next 50 years than we are produced in the


last 2000 due to the increased population in the world. One


proposal is to set aside more land and that, to me, seems totally


wrong given the challenges we face and the difficulty in achieving the


increase in food production as it is with a land we have. As farmers,


we would prefer it to derive our livelihoods in the market place but


as things stand today, at least half farmers would be out of


business were it not for the CAP payment. It's essential bigger


markets to work properly and that's the real challenge for government.


Gwyn Jones joins us now. Listening to that film, we have been talking


about food prices, people struggling to make ends meet and


they will say why can't farmers accept cuts, too? We absolutely


agree people are going to a very tough time at the moment and it's


very difficult. We also accept the Budget in Europe will be cut.


However, if we continue with food production within the European


Union, we are governed by the Common Agricultural Policy and


important thing for us is to make sure that its tears farmers away


from payments towards markets, and also make sure farmers in the UK


are not disadvantaged against competitors in the EU. Can we


afford to produce food on that sort of scale if we need that much


subsidy? Economically, it doesn't make sense. Do you accept that


argument? To an extent. The biggest problem we have is markets in many


areas just don't work for the the dairy industry in this country, we


have been four pence per litre below the European and world prices,


and also 27th out of 27 countries in Europe, so it's not just in milk,


but markets just don't work properly. You say farmers don't


want to be dependent on subsidies. Will that ever happen? How far away


are we from get into that position? With the last two reformers have


been slowly going in that direction but the real concern about this


particular proposal it takes us backwards actually add isn't going


to help to get us into a more competitive position. So we can


move away from payments from Europe. How old do you feel about wealthy


landowners getting the same sort of money as less well-off people


question is the right Prince Charles receives �1.3 million in


subsidies, for example? Generally, we are disadvantage in this country


if there was capping on payments, simply because our farms are


generally bigger than the ones in Europe. We have some very large


bombs in the horticultural sector and they are suffering incredibly


at the moment. They have millions of turnover and yet they are not


making profits and not covering their capital investments due to


the markets paying them less than the cost of production. We need to


produce more food but why are you taking more land out of production?


We are not. Well, more Greening. It's not my proposal. We have


proposed a reform which is a backward-looking and what we need


to do is produce more food sustainably. First there goes the


Asian is tomorrow for that we have said these proposals are


disappointing but we are going to work really hard to get a better


deal for UK farmers, taxpayers and consumers. What can you offer?


Times Arpad and why we are subsidising the pig prices rise? --


times are hard. -- big price rises. What is the dealer you're going to


be fighting for exactly? What is the deal? A greener CAP, because it


gives other public goods in return for the money also you not only


good food of good quality, say be produced, a reasonable price, but


the farmer takes measures to protect the environment for the we


want to get it recognised. pleased the Secretary of State


agrees more land should be taken out of it production, that's good.


Given the negative stance the Government has towards the CAP, we


worry how effective the negotiations are going to be, and


how will we get a more competitive position for us as British farmers?


We have to fish there. -- finish there. Thank you for coming in.


Caroline, do you remember this? looks like you run to the hills?


Not at all, we have to reform the Forestry Commission, but that the


regulator and a major seller of timber into the market and in this


day and age, you can't be the regulator and a major player, so we


have to reform those kinds of conflicts of interest. So the


Lady's Not For turning yet? No. I am ending the public consultation


on this and I take full responsibility for that for the


it's quite clear from the early responses to the consultation that


the public and many honourable members are not happy with the


proposals we set out. I am sorry. We got it wrong. But we have


listened to people's concerns. the lady was for turning after all.


U-turning over government proposals to sell off the forests. It's


amazing what a campaign led by a national newspaper, some rural


campaign groups and the Ramblers can do. And we are joined by the


Whitehall Editor of that national newspaper, the Daily Telegraph,


whose current campaign is aiming to defeat the Government's planning


policy. Before I come to you, are you going to do any you turns on


the planning laws? The point I wanted to make, the convicted


interest about being a regulator and adviser... That's history. Are


you going to U-turn on the planning laws? No, because they don't plan


for sustainable development. Everyone watching this programme


can think of where housing estates have been bolted on two villages


without the infrastructure in place. Surely you don't want to keep laws


which keep sustainable development. So your campaign will fail?


think it's a short-term problem for the Government, getting the economy


to grow but long term it will be a problem for rural areas. People are


concerned about building on green areas. Why are there four times as


many Treasury officials were among the plans as your officials? It


blows apart the whole argument it's an unbiased document for the first


of all, to be perfectly clear, Protection Fault green belts,


outstanding national beauty. National parks, none of this


changes. Rural areas is the concern. It's not DEFRA planning. Do you


really want the existing laws that produce unsustainable development


to continue under formed? You said you don't. You have waved the white


flag of the whole issue. I haven't up. This is fiction. You are


rewriting planning rules which have been in place for 50 years.


don't take policy documents to your sunbed. Communities department, in


charge by Eric Pickles, we work with local committees because we


believe sustainable develop at the heart of the public system will


produce a better result. Sustainable development is a brick


wrapped in something else. More building on the countryside. You


have got to bring back brownfield In 1987 per... Let me finish. In


1987, it is economically socially and environmentally, the three


pillars Of sustainable development. It's a lawyers' charter, simple as


that of. Will you put it to a vote? It's a consultation. It was like


being at Wimbledon there and I felt like the referee. That's it. We


have to leave it there. Thanks to our guests. Will be the result of


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