Browse content similar to 21/10/2011. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Afternoon, folks. Welcome to the Daily Politics, which is now going | :00:27. | :00:32. | |
to be presented by me on a Friday. So please don't switch off. | :00:33. | :00:35. | |
Celebrations on the streets of Tripoli as a tyrant is slain but | :00:36. | :00:40. | |
what does the future hold in a post-Gaddafi Libya? It is crunch | :00:40. | :00:43. | |
time for the Eurozone but Germany and France have already postponed | :00:43. | :00:48. | |
the crunch from Sunday's summit to another one on Wednesday? We'll be | :00:48. | :00:53. | |
asking Shadow Chancellor Ed Balls how he would tackle the problem. | :00:53. | :00:58. | |
They'd keep sterling, the BBC and the British Army. It's been called | :00:58. | :01:08. | |
:01:08. | :01:13. | ||
Independence Lite but will the And with me today are Janan Ganesh | :01:13. | :01:16. | |
of the Economist and Vincent Moss of the Sunday Mirror. Welcome to | :01:16. | :01:26. | |
:01:26. | :01:33. | ||
the programme. There are new and disturbing images this morning and | :01:33. | :01:38. | |
we have decided not to show them. It seems that he was captured alive | :01:38. | :01:45. | |
and could have been deliberately executed. The transitional council | :01:45. | :01:50. | |
is claiming he died in a firefight. This will matter little to the | :01:50. | :01:54. | |
people of Libya. They are celebrating after 42 years of | :01:54. | :01:58. | |
despotic rule. There are big questions about whether the | :01:58. | :02:04. | |
National Transitional cancer can establish a stable government. -- | :02:04. | :02:07. | |
National Transitional Council. To Philip Hammond was asked about this | :02:07. | :02:13. | |
this morning. There is some optimism that can be achieved. It | :02:13. | :02:18. | |
is a relatively wealthy country. There is some oil. The Libyan | :02:18. | :02:22. | |
people have shown restraint over the past few months. Most people | :02:22. | :02:26. | |
who have been to Tripoli in particular have been complimentary | :02:26. | :02:31. | |
about the way that life has returned, quite significantly, to | :02:31. | :02:36. | |
normal in areas of the country that were liberated. There is reason for | :02:36. | :02:40. | |
optimism. We will be looking to provide any assistance we can to | :02:41. | :02:45. | |
the NTC and in showing that transition is smooth. Are you as | :02:45. | :02:53. | |
optimistic as the new Defence Secretary? I think it is less bleak | :02:53. | :03:01. | |
than it was in Iraq in 2003. It will be less compulsive. It poses a | :03:01. | :03:07. | |
huge risk. It is a political risk for David Cameron. He has gone | :03:07. | :03:12. | |
through an extraordinary journey. In January he was worst place than | :03:12. | :03:21. | |
any other Western leader. -- placed. He has been criticised. I think he | :03:21. | :03:26. | |
was unfairly criticised for pursuing narrow, British, economic | :03:26. | :03:31. | |
interest. That is a legitimate part of foreign policy. He has gone from | :03:31. | :03:36. | |
that position in January of being seen as too dry and cynical in his | :03:36. | :03:40. | |
foreign-policy to where he is now - being seen as one Western leader | :03:40. | :03:46. | |
who is ahead of the curve. Potentially a year from now, he | :03:46. | :03:50. | |
will be presiding over at a distance the more chaotic picture. | :03:50. | :03:56. | |
At the moment I are more sanguine about Libya and Iraq and | :03:56. | :04:00. | |
Afghanistan. -- I am more sanguine. He never quite know where things | :04:00. | :04:08. | |
will go. He will probably say it is worth the risk. It is. This is the | :04:08. | :04:14. | |
simplest part. It is about controlling the people and unifying | :04:14. | :04:18. | |
them into a military that works under civilian control. Just hope | :04:18. | :04:24. | |
that you can build the nation. is very tribal. There was a talk of | :04:24. | :04:29. | |
a lot of Al-Qaeda based in Libya and there is a Muslim Brotherhood. | :04:29. | :04:33. | |
It is not necessarily plain sailing, is it? That is the prospect of | :04:34. | :04:39. | |
political risk. At the moment David Cameron will be quite happy. So | :04:39. | :04:42. | |
will other members of the British political scene. That is not just | :04:42. | :04:49. | |
his victory. It is a victory for William Hague. His basic appetite | :04:49. | :04:55. | |
for the job was being questioned. Did he ever find his major? | :04:55. | :05:00. | |
seems to have. A year ago, there were questions as to whether he | :05:00. | :05:04. | |
would remain in the job for much longer. Does it give them an | :05:04. | :05:09. | |
appetite to do something else? is always the risk. There is no | :05:09. | :05:13. | |
doubt that David Cameron took the risk. It could have been disastrous | :05:13. | :05:17. | |
for him. He has problems with the economy and with his backbenchers | :05:18. | :05:23. | |
on Europe. I expect that Liam Fox hopes that he had been around for | :05:23. | :05:31. | |
another seven days to have overseen S. I expect the dictator's Union is | :05:31. | :05:38. | |
feeling a bit fragile, after seeing what happened to Saddam Hussein and | :05:38. | :05:43. | |
Colonel Gaddafi. There were European Union flags being shown in | :05:43. | :05:47. | |
Tripoli last night as Libyans celebrated the key role European | :05:47. | :05:52. | |
nations played in the over broke of Colonel Gaddafi. The flag-waving in | :05:52. | :06:01. | |
Europe has been a lot more muted. The eurozone crisis now unfurled at | :06:01. | :06:06. | |
the summit of European leaders in Brussels on Sunday. This was meant | :06:06. | :06:12. | |
to be the big weekend for Nicolas Sarkozy and Angela Merkel - | :06:12. | :06:17. | |
Europe's odd couple. They have to patch up their differences over | :06:17. | :06:20. | |
expanding the euro rescue fund and dealing with Greek debt if there is | :06:20. | :06:30. | |
to be any chance of a plan emerging. The E F S S has got 440 billion | :06:30. | :06:37. | |
euros capacity. The bail out cake will have to be enlarged if it is | :06:37. | :06:41. | |
to do with the growing threat to Europe's banks and even to big | :06:41. | :06:46. | |
economies like Italy and Spain. Nicolas Sarkozy and Angela Merkel | :06:46. | :06:51. | |
disagree over how much it should be expanded by and in what way. The | :06:52. | :06:56. | |
French want to turn the fund into a bank that can offer of two trillion | :06:56. | :07:01. | |
Euros of its own loans. The Germans, who feel they have to pick up the | :07:01. | :07:07. | |
tab, would prefer the fund to act as an insurer - with the trillion | :07:08. | :07:13. | |
Euros of eurozone debts. Nicolas Sarkozy is resisting pressure from | :07:13. | :07:20. | |
Angela Merkel to cut Greek debt. He feels that such a move would hit | :07:20. | :07:28. | |
French banks hard. They have a lot of that debt and billions in bank | :07:28. | :07:31. | |
capital -- bank recapitalisation and it would threaten their credit | :07:31. | :07:36. | |
rating. The differences between France and Germany are still so | :07:36. | :07:40. | |
great, after all these talks, there will have to be another summer - | :07:40. | :07:46. | |
not on Sunday - that will go ahead but on Wednesday to try to get an | :07:46. | :07:50. | |
agreement. Will any plan make a difference if Greece cannot deliver | :07:51. | :07:55. | |
on its austerity programme? Ireland also had to push through spending | :07:55. | :08:03. | |
cuts and tax rises. Things seem to be going a little better over there. | :08:03. | :08:07. | |
Our correspondent is in Dublin. The Irish are beginning to see a little | :08:07. | :08:13. | |
light at the end of the tunnel and it is not an oncoming train. Yes, | :08:13. | :08:18. | |
Andrew. You are philosophical. If you want to find out about stoicism, | :08:18. | :08:23. | |
instead of going to Athens, come to Dublin. They are what the Financial | :08:23. | :08:33. | |
Times's Court -- called the role- model for austerity. They are | :08:33. | :08:40. | |
getting on with it. They have seen taxes increase and pay packets | :08:40. | :08:45. | |
reduce. In spite of all of that, with unemployment now over 14%, | :08:45. | :08:50. | |
they are not riots in the streets. There is a small protest near the | :08:50. | :08:53. | |
Central Bank but nothing on the scale we are seeing certainly | :08:53. | :08:58. | |
increase or other cities across Europe. They are getting on with it | :08:58. | :09:02. | |
because the economy is growing, because of exports. They hope to | :09:02. | :09:07. | |
return to the markets and borrow like other company -- countries | :09:07. | :09:12. | |
within a year or so. Is there a feeling among voters that there is | :09:12. | :09:18. | |
a sense that maybe they could be through the worst? A long way to go. | :09:19. | :09:22. | |
Maybe the worst is over and there is some growth coming into the | :09:22. | :09:27. | |
economy. Yes, certainly there has been growth in terms of exports. | :09:27. | :09:31. | |
They are concerned about the world economy affecting that. There has | :09:31. | :09:35. | |
been growth in the domestic economy but it has been squeezed. Whether | :09:36. | :09:41. | |
people think things will get better or not, I'm sure. There is a Budget | :09:41. | :09:46. | |
coming in December. The Government is debating whether they cut | :09:46. | :09:52. | |
something like 3.6or 4.4 bn euro out of public spending. Yesterday | :09:52. | :09:57. | |
they had their homework marked by the troika, the EU and the IMF. | :09:57. | :10:03. | |
They said Ireland was doing very well. The nuances of what they were | :10:03. | :10:06. | |
saying was that they were suggesting that Ireland could ease | :10:06. | :10:11. | |
up a bit. They are concerned they could engender the revolution on | :10:11. | :10:15. | |
the streets we have seen in other parts of the world. We will have to | :10:15. | :10:20. | |
come over and see. Thank you for being with us today. Instead of | :10:20. | :10:25. | |
going to Dublin will join from Sheffield by Ed Balls. Welcome to | :10:25. | :10:29. | |
the Daily Politics. If you were heading for the Brussels summit | :10:29. | :10:33. | |
this weekend, what would you be advising our European partners to | :10:33. | :10:40. | |
do? I think there are three things you need. You need a plan, critical | :10:40. | :10:45. | |
agreement for the plant and it has to work. None of those things are | :10:45. | :10:51. | |
in place. There is not a plan, the politics is very divided and no | :10:51. | :10:55. | |
decisions can be made. I fear the danger is the plan will not be the | :10:55. | :11:00. | |
right one. You have to say to the European Central Bank, you have to | :11:00. | :11:06. | |
do whatever it takes to show Italy and Spain will be supported by the | :11:06. | :11:10. | |
collective in the eurozone. The quid pro quo has to be that in | :11:10. | :11:15. | |
Italy there has to be a clear political deficit reduction plan. | :11:15. | :11:19. | |
You will not have stability unless you say collectively we are going | :11:19. | :11:25. | |
to stand by each other in the eurozone for now and that means a | :11:25. | :11:28. | |
very substantial commitment to inject billions and billions of | :11:28. | :11:33. | |
pounds of resources, if necessary. Without that the markets will doubt | :11:33. | :11:37. | |
whether or not there is a real political commitment to hold this | :11:37. | :11:42. | |
together. That is where the contagion, the tensions, low growth | :11:42. | :11:47. | |
and market worries come from. There also has to be a commitment to a | :11:47. | :11:54. | |
balanced plan. If you tried to go too quickly, it does not work. In | :11:54. | :12:00. | |
Ireland, as we were just hearing, they have cut VAT recently | :12:00. | :12:03. | |
temporarily. There is a debate about moving to a more balanced | :12:03. | :12:09. | |
plan. Unemployment is high. Markets are not lending yet to Ireland. | :12:09. | :12:14. | |
Navigating your way through is very difficult. The need to have | :12:14. | :12:18. | |
political agreement and a plan for jobs and the economy. Without that | :12:18. | :12:23. | |
you cannot make progress. No one is following your advice. They are | :12:23. | :12:27. | |
cutting the deficit much more quickly than we are cutting hours. | :12:27. | :12:32. | |
The Germans and French are also cutting their deficits. You seem to | :12:32. | :12:39. | |
be a lone voice. No one else seems to want these policies. The deficit | :12:39. | :12:43. | |
will be reduced more quickly. You're just hearing troika saying | :12:43. | :12:48. | |
to the Irish, you may need to ease off and move to a more balanced | :12:48. | :12:53. | |
plan. What you have to do is have a credible plan for the deficit. It | :12:53. | :12:58. | |
has to be one that works. If you have flat lining growth and | :12:58. | :13:02. | |
unemployment is rising, the market is saying it is not working and the | :13:02. | :13:07. | |
debt will be going up rather than dam. Borrowing is under pressure. | :13:07. | :13:13. | |
In Italy, with the level of debts they have - twice as high as ours | :13:13. | :13:20. | |
plus high interest rates - debt gets worse. You need those plans. | :13:20. | :13:25. | |
If you say you will do it with austerity, that will not work. The | :13:25. | :13:30. | |
other part of the problem is you have to have collective political | :13:30. | :13:34. | |
commitment in the eurozone. Until France and Germany can reach a deal, | :13:34. | :13:39. | |
I have to say David Cameron - in my view - should have been in Berlin | :13:39. | :13:42. | |
and Paris this week saying to people in the interests of Europe | :13:42. | :13:51. | |
and Britain, get this sorted out. He has been stuck in an internal | :13:51. | :13:57. | |
party wrangle. You are a lone voice in theirs. You are in isolation. | :13:57. | :14:03. | |
Angela Merkel does not agree. She wants to cut the deficit at a | :14:03. | :14:06. | |
higher rate. Even the French Socialist candidate wants to cut | :14:06. | :14:13. | |
the deficit. Who agrees with you? When we see the chaos of the summit | :14:13. | :14:17. | |
not reaching agreement, you are saying I should be following a pass | :14:17. | :14:23. | |
being prescribed by Angela Merkel. I'm not saying you are wrong. You | :14:23. | :14:31. | |
are right. It has happened before. He agrees with you? That would be | :14:31. | :14:37. | |
quite a punt to take. The eurozone is going into what is the biggest | :14:37. | :14:42. | |
political crisis of our lifetimes. It is incredibly dangerous. | :14:42. | :14:47. | |
Austerity is not working. The ECB is mooted. There is no way of | :14:47. | :14:52. | |
standing behind Italy. In Britain, we have a deficit plan and we have | :14:52. | :14:58. | |
a political agreement to deliver it. It is the wrong plan because it is | :14:58. | :15:02. | |
going too fast. In need to look at an employment and growth. The idea | :15:03. | :15:06. | |
you can look at the eurozone and said Britain would be better to | :15:06. | :15:11. | |
follow their plan, good grief! asked a much simpler question that | :15:11. | :15:16. | |
people can follow. It seems your position is that Ed Balls is right | :15:16. | :15:20. | |
and everyone else is wrong. Angela Merkel does not agree with you and | :15:20. | :15:26. | |
nor does Nicolas Sarkozy. The Spanish do not agree with you. The | :15:26. | :15:31. | |
Irish do not agree with you. The French socialists do not agree with | :15:31. | :15:37. | |
you. I simply ask again, who does agree with you? We did not join the | :15:37. | :15:43. | |
euro, Andrew, what a good decision that was! You have taken credit | :15:43. | :15:49. | |
endlessly for that. It seems to me, as I say again, you may be right or | :15:49. | :15:53. | |
you may be wrong. As you sit in Sheffield, you are an isolated | :15:53. | :15:57. | |
figure in the European debate. Sometimes you have to have the | :15:57. | :16:02. | |
strength to make an argument which is right. And the outside the | :16:02. | :16:07. | |
consensus. A year ago, I said if we cut the deficit in Britain this | :16:07. | :16:11. | |
fast it would be bad for Britain. The Conservative Party and many | :16:11. | :16:15. | |
commentators said we would get growth, unemployment would come | :16:15. | :16:20. | |
down and borrowing would come down. There has been a year of flat | :16:20. | :16:22. | |
lining and markets a doubting whether Britain will get the growth | :16:22. | :16:27. | |
we need. It looks weathered the optimists of the year ago have got | :16:27. | :16:32. | |
it wrong. In Britain we have to change course and Europe needs to | :16:32. | :16:38. | |
change course as well. Austerity and a lack of political direction | :16:38. | :16:43. | |
are not working. Let's assume that Ed Balls is right and the rest of | :16:43. | :16:50. | |
the world is wrong. Let me ask you on this. It would seem to me, and | :16:50. | :16:54. | |
you're right about the failure of leadership in Europe. It has been | :16:54. | :16:59. | |
kicked into touch again. It would seem that, in the longer term, the | :16:59. | :17:03. | |
only way the have to go is to break up the eurozone and take out the | :17:04. | :17:08. | |
weaker members so you have an optimum currency area in the north | :17:08. | :17:11. | |
or you have, as the British government is proposing, a much | :17:12. | :17:16. | |
stronger fiscal union with transfer payments and eurozone economic | :17:16. | :17:26. | |
:17:26. | :17:26. | ||
I personally think that you can make a larger monetary union work | :17:27. | :17:31. | |
across an optimal currency area, plus if you have got the political | :17:31. | :17:36. | |
commitments. The problem is, Italy is probably OK if it gets its | :17:36. | :17:39. | |
deficit sorted out, but the others have got to stand by the Italians | :17:39. | :17:45. | |
and that is not working. I am for political integration, and I am for | :17:45. | :17:49. | |
the things which need to be done to make that happen. The problem this | :17:49. | :17:53. | |
weekend is that the French and Germans cannot face up to that. Our | :17:53. | :17:56. | |
government is sitting in London not doing the diplomacy we should be | :17:56. | :17:59. | |
doing and it is going to end up with jobs and investment lost in | :17:59. | :18:04. | |
Britain because what happens in the Eurozone matters. I understand that | :18:04. | :18:08. | |
but if you, like the Government, are urging deeper fiscal unions for | :18:08. | :18:12. | |
the Eurozone countries with massive transfer payments and an economic | :18:12. | :18:16. | |
policy for the Eurozone, by definition that redefines our | :18:16. | :18:23. | |
relationship with Europe. It would then change. We would face a 17 | :18:24. | :18:28. | |
country bloc, which would out vote us on every major issue. Wouldn't | :18:28. | :18:31. | |
we then have to change our relationship but the logic of your | :18:31. | :18:36. | |
policy and Mr Osborne's policy was followed through? The logic of the | :18:36. | :18:39. | |
Monetary Union is deeper fiscal integration. Of course that means | :18:39. | :18:43. | |
that that changes over time and Britain has to deal with that. The | :18:43. | :18:47. | |
thing I find worrying about the Conservatives is they seem to think | :18:47. | :18:50. | |
that the only way to sort out Europe and a relationship with | :18:50. | :18:55. | |
Europe is essentially for Britain to walk away. That is so defeatist. | :18:55. | :18:59. | |
That is not government policy. is the view of very many | :18:59. | :19:03. | |
Conservative MPs who will be rebelling next week. It is pretty | :19:03. | :19:07. | |
much what George Osborne hen sat in the House of Commons. He should be | :19:07. | :19:12. | |
leading the arguments through Europe, not walking away. The | :19:12. | :19:16. | |
single market, the labour market, financial services matter across | :19:16. | :19:21. | |
the whole EU area, not just the Eurozone. Us not being in those | :19:21. | :19:25. | |
debates is incredibly dangerous. Stay with us. Let me get some | :19:25. | :19:31. | |
reaction from our guests. If we are urging the Europeans to do what we | :19:31. | :19:35. | |
would not do ourselves, doesn't that changed our relationship over | :19:35. | :19:42. | |
time with Europe? I think a 17 country core Eurozone area would | :19:42. | :19:46. | |
effectively be the European Union. That would set the terms of | :19:46. | :19:50. | |
economic and fiscal policy and even business regulatory policy for the | :19:50. | :19:54. | |
European Union as a whole. You can imagine in the longer term, British | :19:54. | :19:58. | |
membership coming into question. Its interests would diverge from | :19:58. | :20:02. | |
the core. Ed Balls is right. The ultimate solution to the Euro | :20:02. | :20:06. | |
crisis is some kind of fiscal harmony. That will not happen for a | :20:06. | :20:10. | |
long time. It will not involve us. And it would be very difficult for | :20:10. | :20:16. | |
the existing Euro countries to get there. What is your take on it? | :20:16. | :20:19. | |
think people are very depressed by the lack of political leadership. | :20:19. | :20:23. | |
People need unity of purpose and they're not getting that. It does | :20:23. | :20:26. | |
not reassure the markets. The think the British could make a | :20:26. | :20:29. | |
difference? I think people would listen if the Conservative Party | :20:29. | :20:33. | |
were not split down the middle. We have the potential for 100 Tory MPs | :20:33. | :20:39. | |
rebelling on Monday. And quite a few Labour MPs. It is a bad message. | :20:39. | :20:43. | |
It echoes the lack of political leadership. It is an issue that | :20:43. | :20:49. | |
will, on Monday. It is not a party political point, but I would like | :20:49. | :20:53. | |
to come back to what I have said. It seems to me that if the Eurozone | :20:53. | :20:57. | |
goes down the route of fiscal integration and economic harmony, | :20:57. | :21:03. | |
and we are not part of that, whatever British politicians say, | :21:03. | :21:08. | |
that will enforce a redefinition of our relationship with the EU. Can I | :21:08. | :21:13. | |
get a final reaction to that? is right. It is a challenge for our | :21:13. | :21:17. | |
generation but I have to say, millions of jobs and investment in | :21:17. | :21:23. | |
our country depends upon hour access to that wider market. | :21:23. | :21:28. | |
that is all covered by WTO rules. You also know that the integration | :21:28. | :21:31. | |
of financial services and the single market goes way beyond the | :21:31. | :21:35. | |
WTO. We are negotiating that at the moment and Britain is not punching | :21:35. | :21:40. | |
its weight. Margaret Thatcher, Gordon Brown, John Major, all of | :21:40. | :21:44. | |
them would have been demanding to be at the summit, getting it sorted | :21:44. | :21:48. | |
out. David Cameron has walked away. That is not in our national | :21:48. | :21:52. | |
interests. We have to shape the debate so we keep investments in | :21:52. | :22:02. | |
:22:02. | :22:02. | ||
Britain. Ed Balls, thank you very much... SNP politicians at their | :22:02. | :22:07. | |
conference in Inverness this weekend are, as usual, considering | :22:07. | :22:10. | |
the wisdom of being part of the UK. They have a spring in their step | :22:10. | :22:13. | |
now. Their manifesto promised a referendum but now there is top of | :22:14. | :22:18. | |
another action, independence light -- to Independence Lite, or | :22:18. | :22:25. | |
devolution max, it depends what direction you are coming at it from. | :22:25. | :22:29. | |
Still no word on when a debate -- a referendum might be held. John | :22:29. | :22:39. | |
Sweeney joins me. Before I get on to Independence Lite, can ask you, | :22:39. | :22:43. | |
your administration has been boasting about how you plan B is | :22:43. | :22:48. | |
doing better than Mr Osborne's first plan. The Scottish economy, | :22:48. | :22:53. | |
however, is flat lining as bad as the British economy. The Scottish | :22:53. | :22:56. | |
economy delivered as much growth in the second quarter as the UK | :22:56. | :23:02. | |
economy. The growth is modest. The decisive difference is the fact | :23:02. | :23:06. | |
that unemployment in Scotland is lower than the rest of the UK and | :23:06. | :23:12. | |
employment levels are higher. 0.2%, almost nothing. State | :23:12. | :23:18. | |
spending is bigger in Scotland. Before the people that are affected | :23:18. | :23:21. | |
by being in employment and not being in employment, it matters a | :23:21. | :23:27. | |
great deal. It is a consequence of the way we have used our investment, | :23:27. | :23:31. | |
particularly capital investment, to support the future of Scotland. | :23:31. | :23:35. | |
What concerns me about the UK Government's approach is that they | :23:35. | :23:41. | |
have reduced capital expenditure in Scotland by 36%. That is a direct | :23:41. | :23:44. | |
threat to economic recovery. That is why I have boosted capital | :23:44. | :23:48. | |
spending programmes with the flexibility and already have access | :23:48. | :23:54. | |
to, to him -- to support employment and growth. If everything is so | :23:54. | :23:58. | |
great, why is life expectancy widening between Scotland and | :23:58. | :24:04. | |
England? That is in certain parts of Scotland. It is an issue in | :24:04. | :24:07. | |
certain parts, and it is about long-term health issues connected | :24:07. | :24:12. | |
with alcohol and tobacco and poor standards of living. The Scottish | :24:12. | :24:17. | |
Government is taking measures, such as minimum pricing of argol, to | :24:17. | :24:21. | |
interrupt the fact that it is deemed acceptable for us to flood | :24:21. | :24:26. | |
the market with very cheap alcohol, which has damaging consequences for | :24:26. | :24:30. | |
individuals, and that is why we are trying to tackle that and encourage | :24:30. | :24:33. | |
people to lead a healthier lifestyle and take more modest | :24:34. | :24:37. | |
approaches towards alcohol and tobacco consumption. There is a | :24:37. | :24:41. | |
public health agenda we need to put forward, an integral part of our | :24:41. | :24:46. | |
economic approach. Good luck with that. B&Q of independence, I know | :24:46. | :24:52. | |
that has galvanised the conference. -- the issue of independence. Why | :24:52. | :25:02. | |
:25:02. | :25:03. | ||
not just have your referendum now? Are you what we would call just a | :25:03. | :25:10. | |
bit feartie? Which I would translate as a chap who was a bit | :25:10. | :25:15. | |
frightened. I did not need any translation, but I'm glad you gave | :25:15. | :25:20. | |
that translation. What we set in May is that we would have a | :25:20. | :25:23. | |
referendum in the latter stages of the parliament. We sometimes get | :25:23. | :25:27. | |
this from people like yourself, why did you not stick to that things | :25:27. | :25:30. | |
that you said, why do you not all right you commitments? That is | :25:30. | :25:34. | |
precisely what we will do. Give us a date for the referendum. When | :25:34. | :25:38. | |
will it be? Later in the parliament. When? Later in the parliament. | :25:38. | :25:45. | |
When? It will be later in the parliament. When? We will specify | :25:45. | :25:50. | |
the date. A will you do it on the anniversary of Blackburn? That | :25:50. | :25:54. | |
would be a really great decision for a forward-looking country, to | :25:54. | :26:00. | |
have an independence debate on the anniversary of a medieval battle. | :26:00. | :26:05. | |
If that is your interesting suggestion, we will consider it. | :26:05. | :26:11. | |
And you have not. Do you think I came up the Clyde on a banana boat? | :26:11. | :26:14. | |
We will have our referendum in the latter part of the parliament, | :26:14. | :26:18. | |
exactly when we said it would be. The one technical point you did not | :26:18. | :26:22. | |
mention is that our manifesto was endorsed by about 45% of the | :26:22. | :26:26. | |
electorate in Scotland. It gave us a majority in parliament for the | :26:26. | :26:30. | |
first time. That is a mandate that I think people in the UK Government | :26:30. | :26:36. | |
should begin to respect. But you will not give us the debate. Is | :26:36. | :26:42. | |
this Independence Lite, or devolution max? There would be no | :26:42. | :26:50. | |
Scottish army under this, correct? I think the concept of another | :26:50. | :26:53. | |
option short of independence, hear me out, that has got to be fully | :26:53. | :26:58. | |
defined by those who would argue for that proposition. The Scottish | :26:58. | :27:02. | |
Government, in our proposals, set out how a model of this could look. | :27:02. | :27:05. | |
You're right, defence would be an issue reserved to the United | :27:05. | :27:10. | |
Kingdom under that had a model, but it is for those who advocate the | :27:10. | :27:13. | |
concept of strengthened powers for Scotland within the United Kingdom, | :27:13. | :27:18. | |
short of independence, to define that proposition. The Scottish | :27:18. | :27:20. | |
Government will engage constructively with an increasing | :27:20. | :27:24. | |
number of people who argue for that approach. In five seconds, you are | :27:24. | :27:29. | |
still going for the Full Monty? going for the Full Monty. Separate | :27:29. | :27:34. | |
army, seat in the United Nations, the rest of it? I want Scotland to | :27:34. | :27:37. | |
be in a position to be a progressive country that is moving | :27:37. | :27:42. | |
forward, generating wealth and can take its own decisions. For me, | :27:42. | :27:47. | |
that means independence. Scottish independence now | :27:47. | :27:52. | |
unstoppable? I don't think it is likely. What you will see in the | :27:52. | :27:55. | |
next few years is a deliberate attempt by the SNP to drive a wedge | :27:56. | :27:59. | |
between Edinburgh and London by highlighting issues such as NHS | :27:59. | :28:03. | |
reform and slow-growth. We have run out of time but thank you for being | :28:03. | :28:08. | |
with us. That is off raw this week. We will be back on Monday for more | :28:08. | :28:11. |