02/02/2012 Daily Politics


02/02/2012

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Afternoon, folks, welcome to the Daily Politics. Is David Miliband

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making a political comeback? He has broken his silence in the New

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Statesman, warning his party and his brother not to shift too far to

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the left or alienate business. Are we heading for a new bout of

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fraternal strife? Prince William is going to the

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Falklands to serve six weeks as a search-and-rescue pilot. But is his

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job are about to be privatised? The government says it wants fewer

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but better immigrants, we will be asking the Minister how he is going

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to manage that. And has the entente cordiale turned

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sour, we will be analysing the growing tensions between Messrs

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Cameron and Sarkozy. All that in the next half-hour, and

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with us for the duration is Emma Harrison, chairman of A4E, Action

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for Employment. I did not know that! It describes itself as a

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social purpose company, we could do with that on this show. It aims to

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improve people's lives by helping them to find work, skills,

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direction or whatever it is they need! We need you! He will be busy!

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Very busy. But you have any thoughts of Commons and anything we

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are discussing, you can send them to us. -- If you have any comments

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David Miliband, the former Foreign Secretary, has been stirring things

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up a wee bit in the Labour Party. In an article in the New Statesman,

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he warns today that Labour is moving to part of the left and is

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in danger of alienating business. - - moving too far. He has declined

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to come onto the programme. Not for want of trying! But we did get

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something, we have got former Labour and one and minister and

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David Miliband supporter Tony McNulty, welcome to the programme.

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-- Employment Minister. Why not -- why now? Ed Miliband has had a very

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good week at the turn of the year, but the party has some way to go in

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terms of redefining itself, and David's contribution is more than

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welcome. His replying to an article that Roy Hattersley wrote in the

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political Quarterly months ago. Even Roy Hattersley... Did you not

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catch it?! I did not! Even Roy Hattersley has forgotten he wrote

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it. That is quite a Redland, a device for him to get these ideas

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out. -- Redland. If you look through this seven points, I do not

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think there is much that Ed would disagree with. There is that he

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can't and carry on tendency, he calls it the reassurance tender sea.

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All you have got to do is keep quiet, the Tories will mess up and

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we will be back. That way lies toxicity and murder. Ed, since the

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conference, has dealt with predatory capitalism. David is

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saying that productive capitalism matters as well. Half of the stuff

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the same is only, look, there is a poor picture that we need to

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appreciate. It is not an two Ed, by any stretch of imagination. What

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planet are you one?! He says that every Labour member knows that the

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Tories have done a serious job in black guarding Labour as fiscally

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incontinent. We do. We had the detail of a leadership contest

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straight after the election, during which time the Tories established

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the lexicography of the discussion of the economy, and we have got to

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row back from that. We started that process. What Ed Balls did Jay

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weeks ago at the Fabian Society is bang in line with this article. --

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two weeks ago. Her look me straight in the face, I want to see if your

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nose gets bigger. Are you telling me Ed Miliband is over the moon

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with this article? There is nothing he would disagree with. Are you

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telling me he is over the moon with it? Ed understands there has to be

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a way back for David. It could not be more unhelpful! At the last

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election, this is in a week when Ed Miliband has been making all the

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running by a strong anti-business rhetoric, and his brother points

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out at the last election not a single major business endorse

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Labour. We cannot afford that again. That is what he is talking about in

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terms of balance. We will not win the next election as the anti-

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business party. We will win it as the There is a productive bit of

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capitalism, and we are the people who know what that vision and tails.

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That is what David and Ed are talking about. All singing from the

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same song sheet. A broadly, yes, but within that there is discussion.

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You cannot put a cigarette paper between them! Of course you curd.

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have just seen a squadron of pigs fly over this studio! Why does it

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have to be either? Why can't we have and and? Why can't we have two

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good people? Out there in normal land, not London land, people are

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saying, if someone has got something to contribute, let them

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contribute! Why doesn't Ed Miliband bring his brother back into the

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Shadow Cabinet? A That is a matter of David. I think you should have

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said Ed. Unlike commentators, I know which one is which! I think it

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is a part of all David to say whether he wants to come back.

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are told he will be a lot more active next week on a number of

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fronts, we are going to hear a lot more from him, and not in his

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comfort zone of foreign policy. hope so. I can see the Ed Miliband

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people are really saying, we are so grateful for that! They will be, I

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think. It is about the confidence to have a grown-up debate, that is

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what the Labour Party is about. They want to see that the

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politicians are having confident, grown-up debates, and this does not

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impress the people. If no-one in the wonderful world of the Daily

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Politics is saying it is Jo's show or Andrew's show, the strength is

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that it is both of yours shows! is trying to turn the tables! It is

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not going to work! Ed Miliband has shown he understands this with the

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policy review. What does that mean?! There are lots out there

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that show very clearly, there are about 10 or 12 points that Ed will

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be absolutely sold on. It is about putting flesh and Labour's

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direction for 2015, rather than 1975, and that has got to be right.

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They then need to embrace notions of Merit, reward, developing

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responsibility in tax and welfare. It is part of a discussion about

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distribution. They are all over the place on welfare, against the cut,

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for the cap. If the cap fits! they have been broadly in favour,

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but not be limited cap that we have been talking about. It does work, I

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think. The easiest thing to do, if you are a lazy journalist, is to do

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what the Daily Telegraph it and write this over the front page as a

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big row. This is kindergarten stuff for a journalist, but this serious

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politics for the next election. invite you to go on the internet

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and see that is just the Daily Telegraph! Kindergarten stuff for

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journalists, I did not say that. You didn't! Bouquet! A new art

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covering yourself here, aren't you? From the theatre of the absurd...

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It is time for our daily quiz. The question for today, whose underwear

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brought London to a standstill yesterday? We are raising the level

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:08:48.:08:49.

Should you need it, at the end of the show, Emma will give us the

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correct answer! Don't say yet! There is only one person I am

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hoping it is! Even Ed Miliband? Prince William is starting his

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deployment in the Falkland Islands as an RAF search-and-rescue pilot,

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but his presence on islands is increasing the tension between

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Britain and Argentina with the Argentinian foreign ministry

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stating that he will be in the uniform of the Conqueror. His

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arrival follows news that the UK is sending the destroyer HMS Dauntless

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to the region. Allan Little is at Port Stanley. Thank you for joining

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us. You have been on the islands for the past few days, is their

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tension? How are people feeling? This is not a very excitable place.

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People are quite relaxed, quietly confident that there will be no

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militarisation of this dispute with Argentina. Argentina is a very

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different country now to 30 years ago, and the mood here is pretty

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defined. It is very hard to find anyone who pretty much cares about

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Argentine susceptibilities, Argentine sensibilities. I spoke to

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a senior official of the Falkland Islands government yesterday, and I

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asked Tim... He is the head of oil exploration, and I asked about

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exploration as a provocation to Argentina, and he said, they can

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see it as that, but it has got nothing to do with them, it is none

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of their business, we are forging ahead, it is an exciting time. That

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is not the voice of somebody who is afraid that an Argentine invasion

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might lie at the end of this road that we are going down. If they are

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not worried about that, is there any worry about the tour from the

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Argentinian government about some kind of economic blockade? -- Cork.

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There is anxiety about that, but at the same time there is a

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bullishness, because so far it has not really work. A lot of South

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American countries have bought into the idea of banning Falklands ships

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from their ports, but the Argentines have not been very

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successful and running their neighbours to the idea of a

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portrait blockade with the Falkland Islands. -- full trade blockade.

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This does not feel like an island community under siege, and they are

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pleased with the nature of Prince William's stay on the island. It is

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being sold to the world by Britain and the Falkland Islands assembly a

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six-week tour of duty of Flight Lieutenant Wales, but at the same

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time it is the future king coming to the Falkland Islands, and they

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are seeing that as a quiet reassertion of Britain's commitment

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to defending their self determination. Not that it would

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escalate things. His arrival and sending HMS Dauntless, even if the

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government says it is just routine. The government does say it is just

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routine, they are very pleased that HMS Dauntless is coming, the people

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here. The idea of British military protection is still very, very

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important. 1982 casts a long shadow, and that idea that men came from

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9,000 miles up -- miles away to defend their right to choose their

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destiny is a living thing in the streets here in a Falkland Islands,

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so they do not see that as an escalation but as the continuation

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of Britain's 30 year commitment to defend them against any threat. But

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there is no panic here, no sense of intimidation, no fear, really, that

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this is going to turn into a military conflict. Allan Little,

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thank you. There is a growing row in

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Parliament over the future of search and rescue, which could have

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an impact on Prince William's job. Ben Geoghegan is in the central

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locking. This seems as though the RAF search

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and rescue Service could become a thing of the past within the last

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few years as the government tries to contract out that service in the

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future. Part of the reason for that is the ageing Sea King helicopters,

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which needs to be replaced, but it also raises the question about what

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Prince William will do in the military in the future. Joining me

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to discuss that is Patrick Mercer, a former military man, and Maria

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Eagle, shadow transport spokesman. What is your view about this? The

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whole process of replacing the helicopters began under Labour.

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did, and of course they need replacing, they are getting to the

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end of their life, and we began a PFI procurement to replace the kit.

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What the government have done is replace that with a procurement to

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contract out the entire service. So despite the fact that our military

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have conducted the service in an exemplary fashion since the war,

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shortly there will be no military involvement. That does raise the

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issue about who is going to do this job, and of course we know that

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Prince William and others will be redeployed within the military, but

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what does that mean for the future of the service and the quality of

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the services around our coastline? Patrick Mercer, can civilian

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contractors do as good a job as the RAF? I do not know, and I think

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Maria makes some very good points. Actually, they might, if nothing

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else, to a cheaper job. I know it is not the same argument, but it is

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a hugely important these days. There is no question that I would

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like, and any other sensible person, would like the RAF and the role may

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be to remain involved, but as a former soldier, if you told me that

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cuts have to be made, would I prefer this sort of thing or combat

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power to go, you will know my answer. It has got to be this sort

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of soft service, rather than combat power. What sort of assurances can

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the MoD asked for? His there a standardised system in place across

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the military and into the civilian area to make sure that the training

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is up to scratch, that they can perform the same things that the

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Royal Navy and the Royal Air Force have been doing? I have no doubt

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that the training for whichever of them takes this on will be

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partially militarised anyway. There is all of that expertise in the

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hands of the RAF and Navy, and it and it might make sense financially.

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But yes, standards can be maintained, and of course there

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will be competition between different companies do get the

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contract in the first place. That is a good thing, and my only

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concern is that civilian crews, and I do not want to pour aspersions,

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might be slightly more risk averse and military crews. That is an

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It is a concern, the MoD are handing this over to the Department

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for Transport, and good and concerned about the chain of

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command, what does it mean if the military needs somebody rescuing

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offshore, will they have to go to a civilian service to do the rescue?

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I think there are a number of questions which the Government

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needs to answer before we go through with this. Military men are

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very adaptable, I'm sure that those personnel who will need to be

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redeployed will be found roles by the MoD, but it does leave

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questions about how well safety around the coastline will be

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maintained. There is a record of coastguard stations being closed,

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emergency towing vessels being got rid of, and I think there are

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questions the Government need to answer about safety around our

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coast if this goes ahead. Briefly, what should Prince William do if it

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comes to it that he's made redundant. He will not be. He is a

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heavily trained, expensively trained, combat pilot, that is his

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principle training. There are a number of different things that he

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can do - helicopters and helicopter pilots are in huge demand. He will

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not be made redundant, there is no doubt about that, I'm sure the

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military will find a role for him. Thank you very much. We do not know

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what Prince William's view on this issue is. It was reported in a

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newspaper some time ago that he tried to lobby the Prime Minister

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against his proposal. Now, should you be able to command a salary of

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�31,000 to come and live in Britain? That is what Immigration

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Minister Damian Green thinks. First, let's hear what he had to say this

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morning. Today I want to speak about another key element in the

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long-term transformation of British immigration policy, which is the

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development of the principle of selectivity. We need to know not

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just that the right numbers of people are coming here, but that

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the right people are coming here. People who will benefit Britain,

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not just people who will benefit from Britain. An immigration policy

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which reflects a consensus about who should be able to come here,

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and an immigration system that can actually deliver that, a legal

:17:39.:17:46.

framework which reflects the will of Parliament while reflecting --

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respecting our international obligations. And by the magic of

:17:53.:17:58.

television, Damian Green joins us now. Welcome to The Daily Politics

:17:58.:18:05.

- what happens if you're on less than �31,000? That is a particular

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proposal, about not whether you can come here, but whether you can stay

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here. We have been advising that we should look at a range of salaries,

:18:15.:18:19.

from �31,000 to �49,000, to pick point below which people should not

:18:19.:18:24.

be allowed to settle, because that is the best proxy for skills and

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ability to contribute to the economy. The basis of what I was

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saying this morning was that people who come here should be able to

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make a contribution to British life, and that is one of the ways of

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defusing the tension, if we know that everyone who's coming here can

:18:40.:18:44.

actually make a positive contribution, then a loss of three

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-- then a lot of the stresses and strains of the system in the past

:18:47.:18:53.

will be dissipated. So, if you earn �27,000, you're not making a

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positive contribution? You might be, we're not talking about people

:18:57.:19:01.

coming here, we're talking about the link between coming here to

:19:01.:19:05.

work for a few years, and settling here for ever. So, after a few

:19:05.:19:12.

years, if you are not earning �31,000, you're out? It has not

:19:12.:19:16.

been decided, but that was the recommended range from the Advisory

:19:16.:19:21.

Committee. Do you agree with it? will know that when we make the

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announcement in a few weeks' time. You do not know now? No, we have

:19:25.:19:28.

not decided it, it will be announced in the course of the next

:19:28.:19:37.

few weeks. If you marry a un EU citizen, do they have to earn

:19:37.:19:44.

�31,000 to come in? -- a non-EU citizen. Again, it is the same

:19:44.:19:48.

principle, you need to be able to play a role in British society.

:19:48.:19:52.

What, the person coming in? Yes, we are saying that you should be able

:19:52.:19:55.

to speak at least a smattering of English, so that you're not

:19:55.:20:01.

completely isolated in your community. And also, you certainly

:20:01.:20:06.

should not be able to come here with the expectation of living on

:20:06.:20:12.

benefits from day one, many people would regard that as fair. How long

:20:12.:20:16.

do you think this will last in front of the European Convention on

:20:16.:20:20.

Human Rights, how long would you give it, five minutes? 15 minutes,

:20:20.:20:26.

maximum? The other thing I was talking about in that clip was that

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we will, as part of this process, look at family rights. It does not

:20:33.:20:39.

say right to family life only if you are earn more than �25,000.

:20:39.:20:42.

but one of the problems I was setting out this morning was that

:20:42.:20:47.

for some weird reason, ever since Parliament passed the domestic

:20:47.:20:50.

Human Rights Act in 1998, Parliament has given no direction

:20:50.:20:55.

to judges about when does heckles from Europe should apply, and when

:20:55.:21:02.

they should not. As a result, we have had a lot of judgments which

:21:02.:21:12.

are very unpopular. The problem is, there is no kind of consistency or

:21:12.:21:17.

coherence. One thing we will do as part of our announcements will be

:21:17.:21:21.

to try to give much better and clearer guidance to judges. Because

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I think this long-running row between Parliament and judges is

:21:25.:21:29.

pretty unhealthy. Are you looking at all of these things, which I

:21:29.:21:33.

find quite difficult to understand, and you yourself do not seem to

:21:33.:21:36.

have made your mind upon them, is it because you're worried about

:21:36.:21:41.

your target? The official data for net migration was more than 250,000

:21:41.:21:46.

last year, and you have pledged to get it down to tens of thousands.

:21:46.:21:51.

It was not last year it was actually the year before. Our

:21:51.:21:56.

target is to get it down to tens of thousands by May 2015, at the end

:21:56.:22:02.

of this Parliament, more than four years away. But you set a target

:22:02.:22:05.

for net migration, in other words, the number of people leaving the

:22:05.:22:10.

country minus the number of people coming in, but you have set an

:22:10.:22:13.

immigration target which actually depends on British people

:22:13.:22:16.

emigrating - what's the point of that? Because the actual use of

:22:16.:22:23.

public services in this country, transport, health, education, that

:22:23.:22:27.

depends on the size of the population, and the size of the

:22:27.:22:32.

population depends on net migration. So, in practical terms, if you

:22:32.:22:34.

actually want to defuse the tensions caused by too much

:22:34.:22:39.

immigration, it is the net migration figure which matters.

:22:39.:22:43.

more British people should leave? We want more British people to

:22:43.:22:48.

leave Britain then we will hit our target! We want fewer people who

:22:48.:22:52.

will not make a contribution to British life to come here. That is

:22:52.:22:56.

what we can control. Will you come back and see us when we make up

:22:56.:23:00.

your mind? -- when you make up your mind? A of course, but we have to

:23:00.:23:09.

speak to Parliament first. It has been nicknamed the Pret effect,

:23:09.:23:12.

after the Mayor of London wondered aloud why it was that there were

:23:12.:23:17.

never any British people working for the upmarket sandwich chain? Is

:23:17.:23:22.

it because British people are too surly to serve the crayfish and

:23:22.:23:30.

rocket? Business agrees with Boris - four in 10 employers told the

:23:30.:23:33.

Chartered Institute of Personnel and Development that they had hired

:23:33.:23:36.

immigrants because young British people lack what are called soft

:23:36.:23:40.

skills, things like punctuality, teamwork and the delivery of

:23:40.:23:45.

service with a smile. consequence of the education system

:23:45.:23:52.

in the past decade is that it has taught pupils to pass written

:23:52.:23:55.

examinations - some of these customer-service skills are not

:23:55.:23:59.

considered necessary to get on. This has resulted in fewer young

:23:59.:24:03.

people having confidence in dealing with people, dealing with customers.

:24:03.:24:08.

To find out whether actual young people agree, let's bribe them,

:24:08.:24:11.

with some of Boris's favourite sandwiches. Would you like a

:24:11.:24:20.

sandwich? Which one is chicken and bacon, sorry? Do you think it

:24:20.:24:25.

should be taught at school, how to deal with people? I think it should

:24:25.:24:29.

be, because no matter what profession you going to, you have

:24:29.:24:39.
:24:39.:24:41.

still got to deal with the retail world which we live in. I work in

:24:41.:24:45.

five star Michelin restaurants, so I do not think it has got anything

:24:45.:24:49.

to do with British young people. is handy to be taught in schools,

:24:49.:24:55.

but it comes from parents as well. But is it even possible to teach

:24:55.:25:00.

this stuff? This is the McDonald's University. This year, the burger

:25:00.:25:05.

chain will create 2,500 new jobs, half of them for under-21s, many

:25:05.:25:09.

who have never worked before. people are more natural. We find

:25:10.:25:13.

that young people, some of them are lacking in confidence, so a lot of

:25:13.:25:20.

it is about growing their confits - - confidence, as well as their

:25:20.:25:24.

skills. There is nothing like working on a tale in McDonald's,

:25:24.:25:27.

maintaining eye-contact with customers, to bring out those

:25:27.:25:37.
:25:37.:25:37.

skills. -- on a till. You have to be a team player, you have to have

:25:38.:25:41.

a great attitude, you have to be polite. And customer-service, of

:25:41.:25:46.

course. If I'm going to serve a customer, and I can make it a bit

:25:46.:25:50.

more personal, ask have their day is going, it makes the whole

:25:50.:25:54.

experience nicer. If somebody comes in, and they are from the phone,

:25:54.:26:00.

don't get in their face too much, because it is a bit rude. If

:26:00.:26:05.

somebody is happy, then you can be happy back. This week, thousands of

:26:05.:26:12.

vocational courses lost their status as equivalent to GCSEs, so

:26:12.:26:15.

it does not look like the Government has much appetite to

:26:15.:26:21.

introduce school subjects which are almost softer side. A former head

:26:21.:26:24.

of the CBI and Labour trade minister Digby Jones is with us now.

:26:24.:26:34.

First of all, those soft skills - how important are they? The ability

:26:34.:26:39.

to get on in life and talk to people and chat to people is number

:26:39.:26:42.

one, I would say. One of the biggest problems, I might be

:26:42.:26:46.

working with people who are long- term unemployed, some of them have

:26:46.:26:50.

degrees, PhDs, but they have no social skills, and nobody wants to

:26:50.:26:53.

employ them because they cannot connect you and cannot look at you

:26:53.:26:59.

properly. It is absolutely important. But taking away the fact

:26:59.:27:02.

that some personalities are more difficult to deal with than others,

:27:02.:27:06.

is it a sign of failed parenting and bad schooling, or is it just

:27:06.:27:11.

one of those things that people now need to be taught? There's lots of

:27:11.:27:18.

different reasons, people having autism and stuff like that, but

:27:18.:27:21.

there's whole generations coming through, there's work I have been

:27:21.:27:25.

doing, where, if your mum and dad do not have your skills, then you

:27:25.:27:28.

will not have those skills. We cannot just keep looking at the

:27:28.:27:33.

schools for this. There are some kids really struggling who are not

:27:33.:27:36.

getting this day in, day out, the ability to come in and shake

:27:36.:27:41.

somebody's hand, look them in the face and chat to them. Do you think

:27:41.:27:45.

that is the reason there are many more foreigners working in jobs

:27:45.:27:51.

like sandwich chains? As you probably saw from my accent, I'm

:27:51.:27:55.

not from London. If you go to Buxton or somewhere like that, it

:27:55.:28:00.

is all English kids working in those shops. So this is a London

:28:00.:28:05.

issue. But yes, it probably is. I meet lads in the streets who could

:28:05.:28:08.

never ever get a job in a place like that, because they do not have

:28:08.:28:12.

the social skills. So, what is the point of the Government trying to

:28:12.:28:18.

bring down the status of some of these qualifications? I think that

:28:18.:28:23.

is ideological. And shame on them, in many areas. Because what you

:28:23.:28:27.

have got to do is to give emblems to these young people, and to the

:28:27.:28:31.

employers, because it is a currency they understand, they understand a

:28:32.:28:37.

GCSE. I will give you a good example, up at JCB, they have got

:28:37.:28:43.

this academy, with kids in vocational courses, engineering,

:28:43.:28:46.

this is stuff which British manufacturing needs. And they have

:28:46.:28:51.

just taken away the GCSE. He is saying, what have I done all this

:28:51.:28:58.

for?! The Government have tried to pander to a legitimate view about,

:28:58.:29:03.

we do not want lots and lots of hairdressers, we would rather have

:29:03.:29:07.

people who can be in manufacturing, and I am generalising. But they

:29:07.:29:14.

have used an almighty sledgehammer to crack a nut. School does play a

:29:14.:29:19.

role, more of a role that you say, actually, I think. A lack of male

:29:19.:29:23.

teachers in primary schools, for instance, is a problem. But

:29:24.:29:28.

families who are so dysfunctional, the young teenager has no contact

:29:28.:29:32.

with anybody who's going to make him get confident, and so when they

:29:32.:29:37.

start going for jobs, no confidence at all. Very, very briefly, because

:29:37.:29:41.

we have got to move on in a few seconds, but in terms of what you

:29:41.:29:45.

do, which the Government's work programme, is that a good thing?

:29:45.:29:50.

is absolutely about confidence, self-esteem and how to carry on..

:29:50.:29:54.

Are they getting jobs? Yes. And they are keeping their jobs, which

:29:54.:30:00.

is what I came about. When people say they need good people, it is

:30:00.:30:05.

not PhDs and rocket science. It is about good attitude, get in and go

:30:05.:30:13.

home on time. We have been joined by viewers in Scotland, who have

:30:13.:30:17.

been watching First Minister's Questions from Holyrood. Regular

:30:17.:30:21.

viewers will know that the Welfare Reform Bill has been having a

:30:21.:30:27.

sticky ride in the House of Commons. Yesterday it returned there where

:30:27.:30:30.

some government concessions won the day. There is a bit of

:30:30.:30:32.

parliamentary ping-pong going on between the House of Lords and the

:30:32.:30:42.
:30:42.:30:43.

The Government today has just burned a third of the savings they

:30:43.:30:48.

proposed for this measure, because they got the policy wrong. They

:30:48.:30:51.

have incorporated part of our amendment in their concessions

:30:51.:30:58.

today, instituting an adjustment period. I want to show the

:30:58.:31:01.

Secretary of State a better way to institute a principle on what

:31:01.:31:11.

others agree. I am very interested any idea. -- in the idea. Is his

:31:11.:31:13.

party going to say to the regulator that they would have exactly the

:31:13.:31:16.

same amount of money that the government are proposing, or does

:31:16.:31:21.

he think it should be more? does he say that is an acceptable

:31:21.:31:26.

or long-term unemployed, when every day people's circumstances change?

:31:27.:31:31.

They may change their job, they may lose their relationship or marriage,

:31:31.:31:38.

and circumstances mean they have to move home. Why should the long-term

:31:38.:31:42.

unemployed, often third generation, be exempt from the sort of real-

:31:42.:31:49.

world that so many people living? We are also expected that we would

:31:49.:31:53.

provide a grace period, a degree of transition for people who lose

:31:53.:31:57.

their jobs and find their circumstances have changed

:31:57.:32:00.

dramatically through no fault of their own. We will not penalise

:32:00.:32:04.

those who are in work and doing the right thing. We will put in place a

:32:04.:32:06.

nine-month grace period for those who have been a work for the

:32:06.:32:10.

previous 12 months and lose their job through no fault of their own.

:32:10.:32:14.

We have always intended to make this measure, and I'm happy to make

:32:14.:32:24.
:32:24.:32:29.

Joining me now, Labour MP and Conservative MP. Julian Brazier,

:32:29.:32:35.

having accepted any of the changes the laws have made? I think the

:32:35.:32:39.

government has struck about the right balance. There are many

:32:39.:32:41.

lower-paid constituents in my constituency who justifiably resent

:32:41.:32:46.

the fact that there are people being kept on benefits, some of

:32:46.:32:50.

whom, for one reason or another, have not worked for many years, and

:32:50.:32:54.

have a lifestyle that is very much better and more secure than theirs.

:32:54.:32:58.

I think the Government is right to make these changes. It has made a

:32:58.:33:02.

number of concessions to ensure that people who lose their jobs

:33:02.:33:06.

through no fault of their own are not immediately penalise, but I

:33:06.:33:12.

think it is absolutely right to be doing this. -- penalised. Could you

:33:12.:33:16.

now answer my question? Have you accepted any of the changes the

:33:16.:33:23.

Lords have made? Sorry, died personally accept them? As the

:33:23.:33:27.

Government in the Commons accepted any of the changes the Lords have

:33:27.:33:32.

made? Not in the way the laws have drafted them. The main change, as

:33:32.:33:36.

you show it in your clip, that the government has made is that it has

:33:36.:33:39.

allowed this nine-month grace period, and I think that the nine-

:33:39.:33:45.

month grace period for those who lose their jobs is absolutely right.

:33:45.:33:50.

But the wider point is... You have made the wider point, and I thank

:33:50.:33:56.

you for that. Are you voting for, against or abstaining in any of

:33:56.:34:01.

this? Well, the fact of the matter is, as was pointed out by my Labour

:34:01.:34:05.

colleagues, this question of �26,000 applies in certain areas,

:34:05.:34:11.

particularly in areas in London and one or two other places. The fact

:34:11.:34:16.

of the matter is the bulk of that money goes to landlords, private

:34:16.:34:19.

landlords, and it is very, very difficult for those who are going

:34:19.:34:25.

to be adversely affected to find alternative accommodation. I do not

:34:25.:34:29.

think we need lectures from the Government about unemployment and

:34:29.:34:33.

the rest. The fact of the matter is that unemployment is growing, more

:34:33.:34:38.

and more people are losing their jobs, and I think that what the

:34:38.:34:43.

Government is doing once again his divide and rule, trying to

:34:43.:34:47.

concentrate people's minds on other sections of workers, instead of the

:34:47.:34:52.

bankers, the bonuses and tax evasion. That is fine, we have

:34:52.:34:57.

heard the rhetoric from both sides. Are you for or against a cap of

:34:57.:35:03.

�26,000? I would be very reluctant to have a cap unless it is quite

:35:03.:35:07.

clearly very much on a regional basis. But bear in mind, we were

:35:07.:35:10.

discussing other matters yesterday, other than this particular issue,

:35:10.:35:18.

as you know. I understand that. He is the ping pong coming to an end?

:35:18.:35:21.

Does this Bill go back to the Lords? Do you expect further

:35:21.:35:26.

changes? Or is it coming to the end of the parliamentary road? I think

:35:26.:35:29.

it is coming to the end of the parliamentary road, because there

:35:29.:35:32.

are very substantial amounts of public money involved, so the

:35:32.:35:38.

Commons can claim privilege honest. The central point is that we cannot

:35:38.:35:42.

go on in a team of -- time of extreme recession with people

:35:42.:35:46.

struggling, working very long hours, paying a lot of tax, and seeing

:35:46.:35:50.

those one not in work and have not been for many years enjoying a

:35:50.:35:56.

better standard of living than they are. But what the Conservative

:35:56.:35:59.

Members of Parliament, including our friend here, being favour of

:36:00.:36:04.

some control on landlords? Would they be in favour of rent control

:36:04.:36:08.

and the rest of it? As I emphasised a moment ago, the fact of the

:36:08.:36:12.

matter is that so much of this money which is being talked about

:36:12.:36:16.

is absolutely going to private landlords, who are making fat

:36:16.:36:22.

profits. That is why... I'm afraid, gentlemen, we are going to have to

:36:22.:36:26.

leave it there. It is clear the debate is far from over. Thank you

:36:26.:36:30.

for joining us. Anglo-French relations are known to

:36:30.:36:33.

be a bit up-and-down, and every now and then even a little bit topsy-

:36:33.:36:38.

turvy. With another summit looming, we thought it would be pertinent to

:36:38.:36:43.

ask, how are the French President and the British Prime Minister

:36:43.:36:47.

getting along? Jo! Well, things have been better! That

:36:47.:36:51.

the many victims of the financial crisis, including the entente

:36:51.:36:55.

cordiale between Britain and France. Only last autumn, relations between

:36:55.:37:02.

Cameron and Sarkozy looked convivial. David and Nicola were

:37:02.:37:08.

treated like heroes in Libya after leading the international action

:37:08.:37:13.

against Colonel Gaddafi, but David Cameron's decision to veto a new EU

:37:13.:37:16.

treaty led to a public snub by the French President he was said to

:37:16.:37:20.

have called Mr Cameron and obstinate child and told him to

:37:20.:37:23.

shut up. Then Mr Sarkozy began taking pot-shots at the British

:37:24.:37:27.

economy, saying it has no industry any more. Yesterday we learnt that

:37:27.:37:32.

the Indian government had chosen to buy a fleet of French jets over the

:37:32.:37:35.

British build Eurofighter. Mr Sarkozy might not be around for

:37:35.:37:39.

much longer, with the Socialist Francois Hollande the favourite in

:37:39.:37:43.

May's presidential election. Mr Hollande does not like the EU

:37:43.:37:47.

treaty either, but with signs that he may be even more hostile to the

:37:47.:37:51.

City than Sarkozy, Mr Cameron might find that relations can only get

:37:51.:37:56.

worse. Earlier I spoke to an MEP from Mr Hollande's Socialist Party

:37:56.:38:01.

and began by asking if she wanted the treaty ripped up. This is

:38:02.:38:06.

obviously the position that our candidate for the presidential

:38:06.:38:09.

election has taken on behalf of our party. We believe it is important,

:38:09.:38:16.

because we know that the current crisis in the eurozone is a crisis

:38:16.:38:22.

not only about financial stability but also about the lack of growth.

:38:22.:38:26.

The increasing divergence of competitiveness among member states,

:38:26.:38:30.

some internal imbalances as well. We believe this treaty would only

:38:30.:38:35.

add austerity to financial indiscipline. We need some

:38:35.:38:41.

financial discipline, but we believe that growth will not result

:38:41.:38:44.

only with financial discipline. We believe that you need to have

:38:44.:38:48.

growth to allow financial discipline. So you want to spend

:38:48.:38:52.

money, basically, you would like to see more money spent, and so you

:38:52.:38:56.

are at odds with both Germany and Britain, because Mrs Merkel and

:38:56.:39:03.

David Cameron want austerity as it is. No, but austerity on its own

:39:03.:39:10.

will not allow us to get out of this crisis. Tell me, how can you

:39:10.:39:17.

reimburse your debt if you do not create added value? This is all

:39:17.:39:21.

about the debate, what it is about. If you want to go out of this

:39:21.:39:27.

crisis, you need to have sustainable public finances, and to

:39:27.:39:31.

do that you need some kind of growth. Do you have sympathy with

:39:31.:39:38.

David Cameron's decision to veto the treaty? I think David Cameron

:39:38.:39:42.

did not a very good thing, because I think his country is also very

:39:42.:39:47.

much committed to the EU and to the health of the macro economy. I mean,

:39:47.:39:53.

there are plenty of figures demonstrating how much the UK is

:39:53.:39:59.

depending on the EU and the eurozone economies. I think he

:39:59.:40:02.

would have been much better inside the discussion, but of course the

:40:02.:40:07.

condition he had to put to be inside the discussion was not

:40:07.:40:13.

acceptable. The request to the outside any financial legislation.

:40:13.:40:17.

On that issue of the transaction tax, the financial transaction tax,

:40:18.:40:21.

David Cameron and the leader of the opposition here are opposed to it

:40:21.:40:26.

if it is not worldwide. Would you be willing to go ahead, leaving the

:40:26.:40:31.

EU outside the tax? I think this would be bad news for the UK and

:40:31.:40:37.

for France, and for the eurozone, the union as a whole. You know, in

:40:37.:40:42.

the U: -- in the UK, you are a very clever and good proposal regarding

:40:42.:40:48.

the banking sector, which is the Vickers Report. Drawing this line,

:40:48.:40:52.

you should also accept that to have better supervision, better

:40:52.:40:58.

regulation of the financial markets, you need to go all along the line.

:40:58.:41:02.

To a separation between the deposit and the investment banking sector,

:41:02.:41:07.

but also the transaction tax. This would be a really consistent

:41:07.:41:12.

position. In terms of the treaty itself, if Germany does not want to

:41:12.:41:15.

renegotiate and Angela Merkel does not seem to want to, what are you

:41:15.:41:20.

going to do? They are the driving force. They are the driving force,

:41:20.:41:24.

but I think they will need to have France on board, because you cannot

:41:24.:41:29.

have the eurozone only decided in Berlin. This has never been the

:41:29.:41:33.

case, and it will not be the case in the future. I think the fact

:41:33.:41:36.

that Francois Hollande, our candidate for the Socialist Party,

:41:36.:41:43.

has already foreseen the idea that there will be a renegotiation, that

:41:43.:41:49.

allows us to prepare the people for this renegotiation and to define

:41:49.:41:54.

the point where we will ask for this renegotiation. Our partners

:41:54.:41:59.

will not be taken by surprise when we win the election on the sixth of

:41:59.:42:04.

May! If Angela Merkel appears on the same platform as President

:42:04.:42:09.

Sarkozy, which every indication is she well, what do you think of

:42:09.:42:13.

that? Well, we will see how it helps President Sarkozy to win the

:42:13.:42:20.

election, and I think it will not. I think French people are really

:42:20.:42:22.

expecting Francois Hollande to become the next President of the

:42:22.:42:28.

republic. Will he meets David Cameron when he comes to London?

:42:28.:42:33.

will see! Anyhow, I have no doubt that if he comes, he will speak to

:42:33.:42:37.

him about the financial transaction tax. So there will be a meeting,

:42:37.:42:41.

you think? It could be. I and what about Ed Miliband, the leader of

:42:41.:42:47.

the opposition? Well, I mean, he is our sister party, so I think that

:42:47.:42:52.

will also be a very important meeting, but I have no idea about

:42:52.:42:57.

the complete planning of this visit. Do you think, then, well, you are

:42:57.:43:00.

predicting that Francois Hollande will win the election, but you ever

:43:00.:43:07.

see the axis within the eurozone actually shifting? The Uno, I think

:43:07.:43:12.

everybody is under pressure, because there is this debt crisis,

:43:13.:43:17.

and everybody understands that the one who has the tool to put the

:43:17.:43:22.

pressure is really in a strong position. But if you read what the

:43:22.:43:28.

academics and experts tell you, whether it is the OECD, the IMF or

:43:28.:43:31.

some people even in the Financial Times, they tell you that austerity

:43:31.:43:36.

as such is not sustainable and will not be a solution in the long run

:43:36.:43:43.

for the eurozone. I think if Francois Hollande, when he wins the

:43:43.:43:47.

election, he will make Bogor at the political level this thing that is

:43:47.:43:52.

really now very widespread in the public and in the academic world, I

:43:52.:43:57.

think it can make the difference, and it will allow people who are

:43:57.:44:01.

today under stress and under pressure, not allowing themselves

:44:01.:44:04.

to really say what they think about these plans and this treaty, to be

:44:04.:44:08.

more vocal. That is the view of the French

:44:08.:44:12.

Socialist Party, favourites to win the presidential election. The

:44:12.:44:17.

first round is in April, the second round is in May. We are joined to

:44:17.:44:21.

talk about this by French journalist Agnes Poirier, who has

:44:21.:44:25.

just got off the train from Paris and then got stuck in traffic, but

:44:25.:44:30.

she made it, now auditioning for the Killing, you are dressed like

:44:30.:44:37.

the detective! It is the Scandinavian programme. This bit

:44:37.:44:41.

about Sarkozy and Cameron, a French president in trouble, it looks like

:44:41.:44:51.
:44:51.:44:52.

he's going to lose, a bit of Brit It is funny to look at them,

:44:52.:44:58.

because it was a very short affair. And also, when David Cameron lost

:44:58.:45:04.

his father, Sarkozy sent not the troops but the helicopter to get

:45:04.:45:09.

him there on time. And they were the best of friends. And on 15th

:45:09.:45:14.

September, both of them in Benghazi being acclaimed. And then it just

:45:14.:45:19.

went downhill. But it is a bit of a one-sided divorce, Mr Cameron does

:45:19.:45:25.

not say anything nasty about Mr so cosy, but Mr Sarkozy is very nasty

:45:25.:45:29.

about our Prime Minister. -- Mr Sarkozy. He has told Cameron to

:45:29.:45:34.

shut up, a period of silence for you, Britain doesn't produce

:45:34.:45:38.

anything any more, which is factually wrong, because

:45:38.:45:41.

manufacturing is a higher percentage of our GDP than it is in

:45:41.:45:47.

France. For it is very low, anyway. Industrial production is higher in

:45:47.:45:56.

Britain, its 15%. We just take the punches, because we don't care. He

:45:56.:46:02.

is a failed, outgoing politician. Absolutely, although you do not

:46:02.:46:07.

know it, because he is very good at bouncing back. He is a better

:46:08.:46:14.

campaigner, I would say, than a President. But that's the way he is.

:46:14.:46:18.

And also perhaps, that's the French way, being more straightforward

:46:18.:46:26.

about what you think. Look at Nicolas Sarkozy, you know how he is,

:46:26.:46:32.

he throws tantrums. He did say, apparently, reportedly, that David

:46:32.:46:36.

Cameron was a spoilt brat, on December 9th. But Nicolas Sarkozy

:46:36.:46:42.

is another brat, throwing tantrums. They wouldn't shake hands. Well,

:46:42.:46:48.

apparently, yes. A French journalist once said to me, and

:46:48.:46:53.

this sums up Anglo-French relations - the French do not like Britain,

:46:53.:46:58.

but they like the British. And the British like France, but they don't

:46:58.:47:05.

like the French - discuss! Is he rude to anyone else as leader?

:47:05.:47:14.

That's the way he is. Is he rude to everybody? He is uncouth. He is

:47:14.:47:19.

unlike any French president we have ever had. The guy is strange.

:47:19.:47:23.

us, it is quite a remarkable proposition, that the German

:47:24.:47:28.

Chancellor will come and campaign for the re-election of the French

:47:29.:47:35.

President - the German Chancellor! I know, it sounds strange. Is that

:47:35.:47:42.

a plus? I don't know, is it? But that's what he also did for her, so

:47:42.:47:49.

I guess she's just returning the compliment. And since they have

:47:49.:47:53.

seen each other more than he has seen his own wife in the last few

:47:53.:47:59.

months, so she might as well. would you rather see, Carla Bruni

:47:59.:48:05.

or Angela Merkel? I knew you were going to ask that question.

:48:06.:48:08.

Socialist candidate, leading in the poles at the moment, Francois

:48:08.:48:12.

Hollande, he is going to come to London, because London I think is

:48:12.:48:17.

the fifth-biggest French city in the world. But most of the French

:48:17.:48:20.

people here came to London to escape people like Francois

:48:20.:48:25.

Hollande, he's not going to get many votes here. Well, you would be

:48:25.:48:30.

surprised. First of all, a lot of people who voted for Sarkozy were

:48:30.:48:34.

very disappointed very early on, almost a few hours after he was

:48:34.:48:41.

elected. The honeymoon was two hours. Remember, it was 8pm, he had

:48:41.:48:45.

just been elected, and he went to that very tacky restaurant on the

:48:46.:48:53.

Champs Elysees, and we thought, oh, my God, we have made a mistake!

:48:53.:48:59.

Tacky restaurant on the Champs Elysees, how could that happen? How

:48:59.:49:05.

would you sum up Anglo-French relations? I would not dare, really.

:49:05.:49:10.

I'm pleased to hear that he is rude to everyone, it is not just us. I

:49:10.:49:13.

think they're a bit upset because our food got better, I think that

:49:13.:49:18.

is one of the big problems. food did get better, but it only

:49:18.:49:25.

had one way to go. And there is the one who is not getting much mention

:49:25.:49:35.
:49:35.:49:37.

on this side of the Channel, Marinne Le Penn, it is not beyond

:49:37.:49:42.

the realms of possibility that she could come second. Yes, there is

:49:42.:49:47.

another guy as well, who got 19% last night. He is more in the

:49:47.:49:54.

middle. Yes, supposedly on the left for it very much at the centre. --

:49:54.:49:59.

on the left but very much at the centre. Do not discount him.

:49:59.:50:06.

think the French election is going to be fascinating. Anything can

:50:07.:50:13.

happen. If anybody is watching in my home town in France, everybody

:50:13.:50:21.

there is very friendly to the Brits. Thanks for rushing from the station.

:50:21.:50:26.

You can relax now, get your breath back. Get out the sunblock,

:50:26.:50:30.

everyone, it is time for the Lib Dem away day in Eastbourne. But

:50:30.:50:35.

don't count on there being talent for ice-creams, there are some

:50:35.:50:38.

serious issues which need to be discussed. We tried to get hold of

:50:39.:50:44.

the agenda, but we were told to go away. Charming. So we have made up

:50:44.:50:49.

our own. So, what is top of the agenda? First, there is the issue

:50:49.:50:53.

of the Queen's Speech, which has been causing the once cosy

:50:53.:50:55.

coalition considerable coalition considerable

:50:55.:50:58.

consternation. Nick Clegg has made it clear that he would like the

:50:58.:51:04.

Treasury to go further in lifting the income tax threshold. And the

:51:04.:51:07.

reform of the House of Lords has been high on their agenda for some

:51:07.:51:12.

time. But it has been reported that the Lib Dems are less keen on

:51:12.:51:17.

Conservative suggestions regarding the deregulation agenda. Then there

:51:17.:51:21.

is the question of the NHS and welfare reform. It has been

:51:21.:51:26.

rumoured that a Cabinet reshuffle could be on the cards soon, and

:51:26.:51:31.

Nick Clegg would no doubt like to see an old friend returned. And

:51:31.:51:37.

then there is the holy grail of politics, poll ratings. And of

:51:37.:51:40.

course, there is always something course, there is always something

:51:40.:51:47.

on drugs. Joining us now, we have Mark Littlewood. First of all, what

:51:47.:51:53.

is a Lib Dem a awake day like? They're quite fun and convivial

:51:53.:51:58.

affairs, in my experience. I have been to two of them. I'm never

:51:58.:52:01.

quite sure that the two I experienced actually got to the nub

:52:01.:52:05.

of the issue. You would need more than a day for that I think for the

:52:05.:52:10.

Liberal Democrats. Some people might have argued that a day was

:52:10.:52:14.

too long, in times gone past. But not now? No, the reality is that

:52:14.:52:19.

the poll ratings for the party are about 10%, so about half the voters

:52:19.:52:24.

have left the course since the last election. I suppose the first two

:52:24.:52:29.

years of coalition, Nick Clegg has said, hold your nerve. It does not

:52:29.:52:33.

really amount to a strategy. They have got to think about who they

:52:33.:52:36.

are speaking to. There has been this policy of differentiation from

:52:36.:52:42.

the Conservatives, but this is not appealing to the merits of their

:52:42.:52:47.

policy positions themselves. If you think about whether you want Euro-

:52:47.:52:51.

enthusiasts, liberal on immigration, and at the same time, against the

:52:51.:53:01.

bill but, it is a miracle that you're on 10%. -- against the

:53:01.:53:06.

welfare cap. Just coming back to your point, looking at the poll

:53:06.:53:10.

ratings, the time that has been spent in coalition, what is morale

:53:10.:53:14.

going to be like? Have they held their nerve? It would seem that

:53:14.:53:19.

they have, publicly. Yes, to some considerable degree, they have.

:53:19.:53:23.

There is no great uprising within the banks. But I think they have

:53:23.:53:27.

got to work out, David Laws put this quite well at the last

:53:27.:53:31.

conference, they have got to work out whether the Liberal Democrats

:53:31.:53:36.

are going to be the engine or the brake in the coalition. There is a

:53:36.:53:40.

danger that they are the brake. They have got to find some areas on

:53:40.:53:45.

which they can drive forward, some areas they can make their own.

:53:45.:53:53.

they have differentiated themselves, with this unusual display from Nick

:53:53.:53:57.

Clegg on the �10,000 threshold, which did not seem to have been

:53:57.:54:02.

agreed by George Osborne - was that a good one to go on? Definitely, he

:54:02.:54:05.

has found a point of differentiation which is popular.

:54:05.:54:10.

It was not -- it was a Lib Dem policy at the last election, he has

:54:10.:54:14.

not dreamt it out of thin air, and he is seem to be leading the charge

:54:14.:54:19.

on that. If George Osborne brings it in, it will be chalked up as a

:54:19.:54:24.

win for Nick Clegg. But I think he needs to go more in that direction.

:54:24.:54:29.

Where else can he go? On welfare, it is difficult, they have had the

:54:29.:54:34.

Lords live up about welfare, and on health, two biggie shoes, but they

:54:34.:54:39.

will be painted as brakes, not as engines, on those issues. That's

:54:39.:54:43.

true. I think they need to think about whether or not they are going

:54:43.:54:46.

to defend the interests of small business. The Conservative Party,

:54:46.:54:50.

rightly or wrongly, is often portrayed as a friend of big

:54:50.:54:54.

business. The Liberal Democrats can be seen as being a party which is

:54:54.:54:58.

against red tape and things like that, but we have not seen much of

:54:58.:55:03.

that. I think if they stood up for small and medium sized enterprises,

:55:03.:55:08.

tax exemptions, things like that, and were seen to be on the side of

:55:08.:55:10.

the small entrepreneur, that is potentially a market which the

:55:10.:55:20.

Liberal Democrats could tap into. Would that work for you, if they

:55:20.:55:23.

followed that kind of agenda, Emma Harrison? Would it fit with the

:55:23.:55:27.

kind of thing that you're doing on the work programme? It sounds

:55:27.:55:32.

really interesting. I was just thinking about it, there is a whole

:55:32.:55:36.

piece around health, which nobody has discussed yet, which is about,

:55:36.:55:41.

what are the people want? For example, we want to be kept well,

:55:41.:55:46.

we do not want to be fixed, we want not to get ill in the first place.

:55:46.:55:50.

Start thinking about, how can you represent the voice of the consumer,

:55:50.:55:54.

thinking, I do not want great big Health Service reforms, what are

:55:54.:56:01.

you going to do to keep me well? Most of the jobs for the people I'm

:56:01.:56:05.

working with, the long-term unemployed, they find their jobs in

:56:05.:56:10.

small companies. So we need to do everything we can on that. Is the

:56:10.:56:13.

banker bashing working, or do you think that is going to turn

:56:13.:56:17.

slightly as far as public opinion is concerned? It is interesting, I

:56:17.:56:22.

was thinking a few days ago I was the last man on the planet

:56:22.:56:25.

defending Stephen Hester, and I think there has been a slight swing

:56:25.:56:29.

back in public opinion, it was a bit too populist, a bit too much

:56:29.:56:33.

politicians riding the crest of a wave, rather than making sound and

:56:33.:56:36.

sensible economic decisions. the Liberal Democrats, that has

:56:36.:56:40.

been quite a populist agenda for them. But if we're talking about

:56:40.:56:45.

thugs, do you think a lot of them are disenchanted Labour supporters,

:56:45.:56:50.

and if so, they cannot afford to lose most of those, can they?

:56:50.:56:59.

cannot, but they probably have lost most of them. They have got to find

:56:59.:57:04.

these sectors, and I think it is the small enterprise sector, a huge

:57:04.:57:09.

1, to really make their own. It has really been only on the 10p tax

:57:09.:57:14.

rate that they have done that so far. What about a mansion tax? Not

:57:14.:57:18.

all Liberal Democrat politicians seem to be big fans of that? Yet

:57:18.:57:23.

Vince Cable seems to be dead set on it? He does, but I think it will be

:57:23.:57:27.

George Osborne's choice. I think the way that has been phrased is

:57:27.:57:32.

pot of the problem. In fact it would apply to a lot of rather

:57:32.:57:37.

small properties, not just Mansions, and interestingly, in a large

:57:37.:57:45.

number of Liberal Democrat target seats, actually. I think there

:57:45.:57:49.

should not be such a rhetoric about bashing the rich. If you want to

:57:49.:57:53.

say, let's moves and taxation away from income and towards property,

:57:53.:57:58.

then put it that way. Actually saying a mention tax, hitting

:57:58.:58:02.

people in huge country estates, I think that is an unfortunate turn

:58:02.:58:06.

of phrase. In terms of the election, do they still have to go for more

:58:06.:58:10.

years of austerity, like the Conservatives? There is no Plan B,

:58:10.:58:17.

they have got to stick to that, no question about it. Just time before

:58:17.:58:23.

we go to find out the answer to our quiz question. Who was it that

:58:23.:58:29.

brought London to a standstill yesterday? I am hoping it was David

:58:29.:58:35.

Beckham. I think you're the Government. I was in London

:58:35.:58:41.

yesterday, and I was not brought to a standstill, personally. Anyway,

:58:41.:58:47.

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