22/02/2012 Daily Politics


22/02/2012

Andrew Neil and Jo Coburn with live coverage of prime minister's questions and the latest political news, interviews and debate.


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Good morning. This is the Daily Politics.

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Today's top story: Former Defence Secretary, Liam Fox, calls for more

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public spending cuts to fund tax cuts for business. As lobbying

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intensifies ahead of next month's Budget, has the Chancellor got any

:00:50.:00:54.

room for manoeuvre? Iain Duncan Smith's flagship work

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experience programme for jobseekers is under pressure, as Tesco's,

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Argos and Superdrug demand changes to the scheme. So is it a great

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leg-up for the unemployed, or the equivalent of 'forced labour'?

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It's Wednesday so it must be Prime Minister's Questions. We'll bring

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you live coverage of PMQs from Noon as Ed Miliband squares up to David

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Cameron. And, as Nick Clegg visits an

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Olympics venue, the writer and historian, Iain Sinclair, says the

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Games are a disaster for East London. We need to defend the magic

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and the interest of what this area already was - a place of industrial

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fossils, wild beauty and thriving All that to come before 1:00pm, and

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with us for the whole programme two accomplished political performers.

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In fact you could say they are the Adele and James Corden of

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Westminster! Caroline Flint, the shadow energy secretary, and the

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policing minister, Nick Herbert. Welcome to you both. Now, there are

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still four weeks to go before the Budget but George Osborne is

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probably already a bit fed up of all the demands being made on him

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and the unwanted public advice from some of his own backbenchers.

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Yes, the former Defence Secretary, Liam Fox, has returned to politics

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with a call for business regulations to be scrapped and

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further public spending reductions to pay for tax cuts Some other

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Conservative backbenchers are threatening to rebel unless the

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Chancellor changes plans to cut child benefit from all higher rate

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tax payers The CBI says that business taxes should be cut by

:02:39.:02:49.
:02:49.:02:52.

�500 million to boost growth and investment. Lib Dem, David Laws,

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says pension tax relief for high earners should be scrapped to pay

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for raising the income tax threshold to �10,000 immediately.

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And Ed Balls, the Shadow Chancellor, has also called for tax cuts

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suggesting a range of options for the Chancellor to be paid for by

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extra borrowing. So, Nick Herbert, will the

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Chancellor listen to his former Cabinet colleague, Liam Fox? They

:03:17.:03:24.

used to share a curry together in the Treasury. We will have to wait

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and see what happens in the Budget. There is quite an important point

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of difference between the various representations that have been made

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for some for reductions in taxation which should be funded by changes

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and reduction in public spending. And Ed Balls, who is saying let us

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reduce taxation, but actually we will fund it by borrowing. It is a

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fundamental difference and fundamentally wrong. Why is it

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wrong? It would put at risk, confidence in our economy, and at

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risk, confidence in interest rates which is important for businesses

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and households with mortgages and for the prospects of returning to

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sustainable growth. Caroline Flint, what do you say to that?

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Government is borrowing �158 billion more based on their

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planned... Over a five-year period. It is part of their plans to cut

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public spending. Yes, there would be cuts in public spending but you

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have to stimulate growth and jobs as well on that is why we suggested

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a temporary VAT reductions. It would cost 12 billion but the

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dividends would out way that with getting people spending again. But

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presently people are worrying about spending and it is having an

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adverse effect on the economy. A temporary VAT cuts would create the

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opportunity for families to spend more. We think it is the right

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thing to do. You will never agree and these are well established a

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opposing positions. But Liam Fox also said it is intellectually

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unsustainable to believe workplace rights should remain untouchable.

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Do you agree? We are taking measures to make it easier for

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businesses to hire people and some of the changes we are making to

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employment tribunals are about that. So you do agree? The flexibility is

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important and we are taking steps to enhance that. The do you agree?

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I think I have just agreed. wanted you to say the words.

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agreed. We are getting somewhere. Should the Chancellor perform a U-

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turn and child benefit for higher rate tax players -- taxpayers. He

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might be defeated in the Commons if he doesn't. This is about the

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Budget and what the Chancellor is going to say next month. It is

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never a good idea for his colleagues to predict what he is

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going to say. There is this idea you start paying benefit right of

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the income scale even to people who don't require it. I think in all of

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the changes we have been making, we have been focused on the lowest

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paid. It is one of the important reasons we are making progress from

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paying tax at all. Just for clarity, in this case, you don't agree he

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should do a U-turn? I certainly don't agree that he should do a U-

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turn, but these are matters for the Chancellor next month. Can I say

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something about this idea to create jobs, you make it easier to sack

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people which seems to be the Liam Fox argument. When I talk to

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businesses in my constituency, the small businesses are worried that

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even if they have more export opportunities, they are afraid to

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expand because they don't get support from the banks and

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elsewhere. The answer isn't growing our economy by making it easier to

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sack people, we need to get lending going again, so small businesses

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feel confident about taking people on. It is a disgrace there are

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firms in our country who could expand but cannot do so because of

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the mess this Government has got us into now. We will be speaking

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exclusively to Liam Fox in the Sunday politics this weekend.

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Now to the story that keeps on running - the Government's plans to

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reform the NHS. This afternoon the Labour Party are staging a debate

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in the House of Commons, calling on ministers to publish something

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called the 'risk register' - a detailed analysis of what could

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potentially go wrong with the proposed changes in the health

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service. So far the Government has refused to publish the information.

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We can talk now to a Lib Dem MP who wants the register to be published,

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Andrew George. Why is it so important to get the

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register published? Is it best to go into this debate in the dark, or

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have the best information available. The fact is, it is better to have

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as much information as possible from Government, if you are going

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to particularly give the green light to what is going to beat the

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biggest reorganisation of the health service in its 63 years.

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People will say it is just another excuse to block the Bill, as they

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are going through legislation, it is not wise to publish all of the

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information, there has to be some confidentiality? The debate around

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the risk register is it you like, a bit of a sideshow. The main issue

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is the legitimacy of the Bill itself and the impact it is likely

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to have on the NHS and that is worth the core of the debate is.

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The debate about the risk register and its publication, which the

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information tribunal clearly has instructed the Department of Health

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to publish, is a sideshow, but it is the information and it would be

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helpful in informing the debate. you think you'll get any more

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concessions on the NHS bill? have to continue to work as best as

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we can to achieve concessions. The latest we are pushing for as limo

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Democrats, is too constrained democratisation of the NHS through

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proposed amendments in the House of Lords and it is something I am sure

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will be welcome if we can achieve it. My position is, although we

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have made the bill less bad, I'm not persuaded the Bill should go

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through. OK, Andrew George, thanks very much. Nick Herbert, you must

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be fed up with your Lib Dem coalition colleagues? They have

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disrupted this Bill all the way through, caused a pause in the

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legislation, numerous concessions and they still want more. Nick

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Clegg is reportedly trying to get more concessions so there isn't a

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revolt at his party's spring conference. What do you say to

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them? I am not fed up with them and there has been a process of debate

:10:09.:10:13.

about the health reforms. They are important in terms of the transfer

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of responsibility from the bureaucracy of Primary Care Trust,

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and putting that responsibility effectively in the hands of GPs

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through the commissioning groups, giving patients therefore, more

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control, more choice. Saving money through the reduction in

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bureaucracy, �4.5 million will be saved. The direction of travel of

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these reforms are right. The point is, why at this stage are your

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coalition colleagues still trying to change the Bill yet again? Is

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that what Nick Clegg should be doing? Is it what you would expect

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him to be doing? The Government is committed in seen these reforms

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through. There is a process of Parliamentary debate. There is a

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debate outside, the Prime Minister met some of the principal players

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last week. It is perfectly OK to have a discussion about this and

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people propose amendments. What is important is we maintain the

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direction of these reforms. It is important the NHS does change,

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because we needed to adapt to the modern challenges and rising costs

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of care. It is important we move away from the bureaucratic system

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we have had in the past and give it the opportunity to save money and

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give patients more control. But she judges publish the at-risk register,

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-- Risk Register? No Government has published a risk register. The

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previous Government didn't. Andy Burnham himself refused a Freedom

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of Information Act request to publish the risk register when he

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was Health Secretary. Now he is calling for it, which is

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hypocritical. Blatant opportunism? We are talking about a transition

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risk register which is only to do with this massive reorganisation of

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the NHS, which this coalition Government has decided to embark on.

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When Andy Burnham was in Government, the issue was the department will

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register. But this is different. isn't. It is, that is why the

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information commissioner allowed it. When Andy was in Government, the

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Information Commissioner did not insist. It is a risk register about

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the reorganisation of the NHS. The information commissioner has seen

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it and has said there is information that is pertinent to

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the debate about the changes to the NHS. That is why we have is motion

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today and white the Liberal Democrats can go with this today.

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And why not just publish it? It is naked political opportunism. You're

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not going to get civil servants to give advice of these risk registers

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which requires them to set out things like worst case scenarios if

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what they think is going to happen is, it is going to be published and

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used for partisan political advantage. Governments have not

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published these in the past. This is about a bill, an act that will

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be made by you if you had your way. The public have never heard of a

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risk register before. This is a sideshow about what the debate is

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about, which is the importance of these reforms to secure the NHS for

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the future. Naked political opportunism! We

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have never heard that on this programme.

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Is the Government's work experience scheme in trouble? It was hailed as

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a way to help some of our one million unemployed 16 to 24 year

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olds get jobs, providing work experience whilst participants

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claim Jobseeker's Allowance. But it's not quite gone to plan.

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Critics have accused companies involved of using slave labour and

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now some of those big stores have also expressed concerns. So what

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was the big idea, Jo? It must all have seemed so simple

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when the Department for Work and Pensions came up with the scheme.

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So how does it work? Under the Work Experience programme, young people

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on benefits are offered placements of up to two months while still

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receiving Jobseeker's Allowance plus expenses. The Government says

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it's a voluntary scheme and participants can pull out in the

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first week without sanctions. But pulling out any later could mean

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they lose their benefits. Firms who have signed up include Boots,

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McDonald's and Primark. Over 34,000 people have taken up the scheme and

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50% of those have stopped claiming benefits. Work and Pensions

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Secretary, Iain Duncan Smith, says the scheme gives participants

:14:44.:14:50.

experience, a line for their CV and a stint in business. But not

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everyone agrees. Critics say people aren't able to do work experience

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in their chosen field and that big companies are profiting from free

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labour. Or "slave labour". They say that the scheme isn't voluntary as

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those who pull out lose their benefits. So is the scheme in

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danger of failing apart? Tesco, one of the firms who backed the scheme

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has announced it'll offer paid placements with a guarantee of a

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job to all those people it takes on - if they do well. And Argos and

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Superdrug say they're suspending their involvement pending talks

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with the DWP to ensure the scheme is voluntary and benefits won't be

:15:26.:15:36.
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removed from those who leave the scheme. But Hhecalls the scheme's

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critics "modern-day Luddites" and And we are joined by Anne Marie

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O'Reilly, from the campaign group Boycott Workfare. We can see the

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absurdity in a multi-millionaire minister calling people jobs snobs.

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By at you do not normally get paid work experience but in this case

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they will get jobseeker's allowance of --. They have to work on threat

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of sanctions. That is after they signed up. We have been contacted

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by people this week who having seen it in the headlines, have found out

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for the first time it is voluntary because that is not how it is being

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portrayed. Once they signed up to it, they can step away very early

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without sanctions but if they stay on it for a while, there is as

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sanction. Most people will think, better to be getting some work

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experience, getting up in the morning, mixing with colleagues,

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and sitting at home doing nothing. The opting for one week is true of

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only one of the government's five schemes. Other people put people to

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work on threat of sanction it... How are you going to get a job if

:17:03.:17:13.
:17:13.:17:14.

These schemes are designed to hold another subsidy to big business.

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ASDA, McDonald's and Tesco can afford to pay wages and they are

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not. The government is basically introducing an eight-week, unpaid

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interviewed for jobs? 1100 people worked for Tesco on the schemes and

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did not get a job from it, which is hundreds of thousands of hours.

:17:34.:17:39.

That is unpaid work. The taxpayer is paying them. Maybe we have a

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right to expect them to do something for that money. What is

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wrong with that principle? Young people earning �53 a week on

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jobseeker's allowance, that is �200 a month. The idea that they should

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be working 30 hour weeks in order to have the bare minimum to survive

:17:58.:18:03.

is absurd and people can see that. That is why Iain Duncan-Smith is

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coming out with mad accusations because the public at large can see

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this is a threat to wall of us, because it is replacing paid work

:18:10.:18:19.

and driving down wages -- threat to all of us. But you on the

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jobseeker's Allowance, �53.45 for a young person a week, that works out

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at �1.50 an hour. That is not what I would regard as much experience.

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That is doing things for nothing. These people would be on this

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benefit anyway. The question is, should they be allowed to

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voluntarily joined a scheme that gives them experience? 34,000 have

:18:43.:18:46.

been through this scheme and over half of them have gone into work so

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it has benefited them and surely that is a good thing. What on earth

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is wrong with that? In terms of these people who said they have

:18:55.:19:00.

received sanctions, 200 people have received sanctions. You have the

:19:00.:19:04.

option of dropping out after the first week if you do not like it.

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This has been a good experience for people who would otherwise be on

:19:09.:19:15.

benefits. It is not a form of slave labour, you are confusing it with

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other schemes... Why are big companies like Tesco and Argos up

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in arms? Chris Grayling, the minister in charge, said that you

:19:25.:19:29.

were running a disgraceful campaign and when Tesco said, we are not too

:19:29.:19:33.

happy about this, he said it was a U-turn and that it was a better

:19:33.:19:38.

offer for young people. Which bit is the right? The Tesco offer is a

:19:38.:19:43.

good offer! It is a good thing, if not a bad thing! You do not think

:19:43.:19:48.

it is a disgraceful campaign? a misleading campaign. It has

:19:48.:19:52.

benefited a lot of young people with experience while they are

:19:52.:19:55.

claiming benefits and I disagree that the public will be worried

:19:55.:19:59.

about this. The public will see it is voluntary, it is commonsense,

:19:59.:20:07.

and it gives something... Can I correct you? Briefly. It is

:20:07.:20:10.

disabled people and people with terminal cancer that this

:20:11.:20:15.

government wants to make work for free. That is not happening for

:20:16.:20:21.

Tesco. It's is voluntary. Do you have examples of Tesco employees

:20:21.:20:26.

people with terminal cancer under this scheme? The government is

:20:26.:20:30.

trying to keep these figures very much under wraps. You made an

:20:30.:20:35.

accusation. Oh I have not made an accusation at Tesco but it is

:20:35.:20:41.

government policy. You can look a DWP policy... You must approve of

:20:41.:20:45.

what the government is doing because it is a continuation of

:20:45.:20:50.

Labour policies. James Purnell said in 2008 that Reggie everyone on

:20:50.:20:54.

benefits should be forced to do something in return -- that

:20:54.:20:58.

everyone on benefits. When I was Employment Minister we had the

:20:58.:21:03.

scheme to get people ready for work through the JobCentre, so they

:21:03.:21:07.

could apply for apprenticeships and training programmes, but the key

:21:07.:21:11.

issue is about how much these schemes will lead to a job and what

:21:11.:21:15.

you can't have, and maybe this is one of the worries of Argos and

:21:15.:21:19.

Tesco and Primark, is this perceived as a conveyor belt of

:21:19.:21:22.

people coming through on eight weeks cycles replacing people who

:21:22.:21:26.

might be in full-time and part-time work and you have to be on the ball

:21:26.:21:31.

about that. Let me put that to the minister. Of those who have been on

:21:31.:21:36.

it, over half have gone into work so there is evidence it is

:21:36.:21:41.

successful in giving people... into permanent jobs? Into jobs or

:21:41.:21:46.

coming off benefits. What is a permanent job these days? There are

:21:46.:21:51.

no figures on the government about what proportion have gone into work.

:21:51.:21:56.

Labour, to its shame, introduce these schemes. The difference is

:21:56.:22:01.

the coalition is rolling it out on a massive scale. Nearly 400,000

:22:01.:22:04.

people had been referred to the work programme in the last year and

:22:04.:22:08.

the government has yet to tell us how many have been forced into

:22:08.:22:12.

similar unpaid work positions. It can be for up to six months which

:22:12.:22:16.

is disgusting. You do need to give people out of work the opportunity

:22:16.:22:22.

for work placements. The question is, what support is given to these

:22:22.:22:26.

people on the outset and what journey will they be on? That is

:22:26.:22:30.

why the Future Jobs Fund was very much geared to looking at companies,

:22:30.:22:34.

both in the public and private sector, who could look at their

:22:34.:22:38.

work force and say, we will work with the JobCentre and see if we

:22:38.:22:42.

can get some of your people into jobs. We cannot have a conveyor

:22:42.:22:48.

belt... EU have made that point. The Tory MP said last night that

:22:48.:22:53.

your campaign is a lot of people waving a copy of the Socialist

:22:53.:23:01.

Worker? Absurd! Are you a member of that party? Absolutely not. Boycott

:23:01.:23:05.

Workfare was formed by people who have experience of these schemes

:23:05.:23:10.

and is driven by the public who are outraged that the high street and

:23:10.:23:15.

big companies are being propped up by people... It is not forced.

:23:15.:23:21.

does it have a sanction attached to its then? We have to move on. Thank

:23:21.:23:26.

you for being with us. There is an idea that David Cameron is trying

:23:26.:23:31.

to freeze the minimum wage next month. There is all sorts of talk!

:23:31.:23:37.

We have been discussing it for half-an-hour. Stop doing this!

:23:37.:23:40.

come onto his programme for me to tell you what the government is

:23:40.:23:45.

doing? Let's wait and see what the Chancellor does next month! I know

:23:45.:23:48.

when I am not getting anywhere! Now yesterday Communities Secretary

:23:48.:23:50.

Eric Pickles launched the Government's new community

:23:50.:23:53.

integration strategy, a plan to help us all get along with each

:23:53.:24:03.
:24:03.:24:03.

other a little bit better. Lovely! It is never going to work! One of

:24:03.:24:06.

his proposals is the concept of a Big Lunch, where neighbours sit

:24:06.:24:09.

down together to eat a big lunch. Who would ever have thought that

:24:09.:24:13.

Eric Pickles would come up with the idea of a big lunch? It would not

:24:13.:24:20.

be a small lunch! If the "big society" has disappeared without

:24:20.:24:25.

trace, why not have a big lunch? And what better way to get a big

:24:25.:24:28.

lunch off to a good start than making sure you've all got the best

:24:28.:24:32.

crockery on show. Something like a Daily Politics mug perhaps. You

:24:32.:24:37.

wondered where we were going with that! So did I because I had not

:24:37.:24:41.

seen the script before! But to get your hands on one you will have to

:24:41.:24:44.

win our Guest the Year competition. Can you remember when this

:24:44.:24:54.
:24:54.:25:19.

A fair local tax is one which does not fall too heavily on any, single

:25:19.:25:29.
:25:29.:25:44.

# It's no secret #. Lift-off of Colombia on its first

:25:44.:25:54.
:25:54.:26:02.

# Looking to your heart, you will find #.

:26:02.:26:07.

We as hostages will give our utmost support to see in this problem

:26:07.:26:16.

finished. # Don't tell me it is not worth

:26:16.:26:26.
:26:26.:26:27.

# At everything I do, they do it for you #.

:26:27.:26:31.

To be in with a chance of winning a Daily Politics mug, send your

:26:31.:26:36.

answer to our special quiz email address. And you can see the full

:26:36.:26:43.

terms and conditions for Guess The Year on our website.

:26:43.:26:50.

What it is coming up to midday, so we can look at Big Ben behind me.

:26:50.:26:55.

There she is, he is, or whatever. Prime Minister's Questions is on

:26:55.:27:02.

the way. Nick Robinson is with me. An unusual start to PMQs. We have

:27:02.:27:05.

grown used to starts in which tributes are paid to soldiers who

:27:05.:27:10.

have died in Iraq, then in Afghanistan. I am told that he will

:27:10.:27:15.

pay tribute to a Marines, the veteran, brilliant foreign

:27:15.:27:19.

correspondent of the Sunday Times, somebody I know you knew and I

:27:19.:27:25.

think you even hired, who died today in Syria, who so I think it

:27:25.:27:29.

will be a moment in which the House is reminded of the horror of what

:27:29.:27:34.

is happening in Syria, the risks that some extraordinary brave

:27:34.:27:43.

colleagues of hours take to bring that used to the world. -- ours.

:27:44.:27:48.

She was American by background but became very British, one of the

:27:48.:27:51.

foremost correspondents. I think she was the foremost foreign

:27:51.:27:56.

correspondent of her generation. Wherever there was trouble in the

:27:56.:28:00.

world, you could be pretty sure that she was there and she

:28:00.:28:04.

reported... She was always in the thick of it and her reporting was

:28:04.:28:10.

superb, completely honest, no agenda at all, and full of

:28:10.:28:13.

compassion. It is interesting that she was doing that right down to

:28:13.:28:19.

the last minute and broadcasters... She often got to places that we

:28:19.:28:23.

couldn't get too! People listening to Radio 4 this morning we have

:28:23.:28:29.

heard her voice. I think it was recorded yesterday. There was an

:28:29.:28:33.

added poignancy that hours later we learned she had died in an

:28:33.:28:38.

explosion. Very symbolic as the eye patch that she had to wear over ten

:28:38.:28:42.

years because she lost that when a grenade hit her in Sri Lanka, which

:28:42.:28:49.

was just a sign... Sri Lanka, the Maghreb, Chechnya, she was there.

:28:49.:28:56.

It is very sad, I was very sad when I heard that news today. What else

:28:56.:29:02.

will happen? I will be amazed if Ed Miliband does not go on health.

:29:02.:29:05.

Week after week he has made the Prime Minister looks pretty

:29:05.:29:11.

uncomfortable on the subject. A week ago, before half-term, he was

:29:11.:29:16.

able to get away at some of the tensions within the Tory party. I

:29:16.:29:20.

would be surprised if he did not try to do the same for the Liberal

:29:20.:29:25.

Democrats. What we also know it is the Liberal Democrats are having a

:29:25.:29:29.

spring conference. They do this old fashioned thing called democracy in

:29:29.:29:32.

the Liberal Democrats and that means the leadership cannot control

:29:32.:29:36.

what is debated and there is already an emergency motion tabled,

:29:36.:29:40.

it may not get chosen, calling for the Health and Social Care Bill to

:29:41.:29:45.

get scrapped. It is the same man pushing it to push it a year ago.

:29:45.:29:50.

One of the things that contributed to the pause. There is a petition

:29:50.:29:55.

among at Lib Dems to scrap the Bill and there is certainly a sense that

:29:55.:30:00.

even senior Liberal Democrats might want to water down part of the

:30:00.:30:03.

competition clauses. I heard something very interesting

:30:03.:30:08.

yesterday, Andrews. Nick Clegg is now telling his allies that they

:30:08.:30:12.

are losing more activists over this issue of health than they did over

:30:12.:30:17.

the increase in tuition fees. That is how serious the Health and

:30:17.:30:20.

Social Care Bill is a Liberal Democrats because for them, many of

:30:20.:30:23.

whom either work in the health service and have friends in the

:30:23.:30:26.

health service, they have got an instinctive distrust of the

:30:26.:30:29.

Conservatives on this issue and they don't quite get one of their

:30:29.:30:34.

party is going along with it. instinctive rather than detailed. I

:30:35.:30:41.

suspect even Lib Dem activists for don't really know what is in it.

:30:41.:30:46.

absolutely. Vast numbers of people say they don't know what is in it,

:30:46.:30:51.

around 80%. Go around the House of Commons and asked... It is about

:30:51.:30:57.

trust. In the end, the nervousness on the Labour side, privatisation

:30:57.:31:02.

and competition. I occasionally TVs Labour former ministers and say,

:31:02.:31:12.
:31:12.:31:15.

you brought in private companies -- I occasionally TVs. -- tease.

:31:15.:31:23.

Straight to the House of Commons I am sure the whole House will wish

:31:23.:31:29.

to join me in sending our deepest condolences to the families and

:31:29.:31:33.

friends of senior aircraft man, Ryan Tomlin. It is clear from the

:31:33.:31:39.

tributes paid to him, he was a determined young man with potential.

:31:39.:31:43.

His service and sacrifice to this nation will never be forgotten.

:31:43.:31:49.

Members of the House will have seen the talented and respected foreign

:31:49.:31:52.

correspondents of the Sunday Times, Marie Colvin, has been killed in

:31:52.:31:57.

the bombing in Syria. It is a desperately sad reminder of the

:31:57.:32:02.

risks journalists take to inform the world on what is happening and

:32:02.:32:05.

off thoughts are with her family and friends. I have had meetings

:32:05.:32:09.

with ministerial colleagues and others, and I will have further

:32:09.:32:14.

such meetings later today. Can I associate myself but the

:32:14.:32:20.

Prime Minister's Commons with -- about our brave troops and the

:32:20.:32:23.

brave journalists to report their activities as well. The Prime

:32:23.:32:27.

Minister has said one of his main priorities is fighting crime. Then

:32:27.:32:31.

why since the election there has been a cut in over 4,000 in the

:32:31.:32:35.

number of frontline police officers? In South Yorkshire, the

:32:35.:32:39.

police helicopter which was responsible for apprehending over

:32:39.:32:43.

700 criminals last year, will be scrapped by the police minister

:32:43.:32:46.

against the advice of the Chief Constable? How can he explain these

:32:46.:32:52.

matters, which indicate to the public that crime will rise when it

:32:52.:32:58.

is simply another broken promise... The Prime Minister. I on the issue

:32:58.:33:04.

of the helicopter, there are talks under way between the South

:33:04.:33:08.

Yorkshire Police and ACPO. I'm sure coverage will be maintained. I

:33:08.:33:12.

would make the point recorded crime is down under this Government. And

:33:12.:33:17.

also, if you look at the figures from her Majesty's Inspectorate of

:33:17.:33:20.

the constabulary, they believe there will be more invisible

:33:20.:33:25.

policing roles this march of than there were a year ago.

:33:25.:33:30.

This Monday was meant to be a happy reunions for pupils at Alvechurch

:33:30.:33:33.

middle school following their half- term break. But it turned out to be

:33:33.:33:37.

a day of mourning for the school and the community because of the

:33:37.:33:40.

news of a coach crash in France. He claimed the life of a much-loved

:33:41.:33:45.

local teacher, Mr Peter Rippington and left many schoolchildren

:33:45.:33:49.

seriously injured. Will the Prime Minister join me in expressing

:33:49.:33:53.

sympathy for those affected and for those who are still in France being

:33:53.:33:59.

treated, a swift recovery and speedy return home? I am grateful

:33:59.:34:04.

to him for raising this desperately, desperately sad case. I know Peter

:34:04.:34:08.

Rippington was much respected in the local community and that the

:34:08.:34:12.

school and will be missed. Thoughts and sincere condolences I am sure

:34:12.:34:18.

from everyone in the House will be with his constituents. I can tell

:34:18.:34:21.

him our consular staff in France continued to provide support to

:34:21.:34:26.

those in France. The ambassador has visited passengers in hospital and

:34:26.:34:28.

is liaising with the local authorities and we will do

:34:28.:34:31.

everything we can with the French authorities to get people safely

:34:31.:34:38.

home. Mr Ed Miliband. Can I join the Prime Minister in

:34:38.:34:42.

paying tribute to senior aircraft and an Ryan Thomson from the RAF

:34:42.:34:47.

Regiment, who died bravely and courageously serving our country

:34:47.:34:50.

and our thoughts are with his family and friends. We are also

:34:50.:34:55.

thinking today about the tragic death of Marie Colvin. She was a

:34:55.:34:58.

brave and tireless reporter across many continents and in many

:34:58.:35:02.

difficult situations. She was an inspiration to women in her

:35:02.:35:07.

profession. Her reports in the hours before her death showed her

:35:07.:35:10.

works at her finest. Our thoughts today are with her family and

:35:10.:35:15.

friends. Mr Speaker, on Monday the Prime Minister held his emergency

:35:15.:35:25.
:35:25.:35:28.

NHS summit. He managed to execute - - exclude the main organisations if

:35:28.:35:32.

other following professions, the GPS, the midwives, the

:35:32.:35:37.

psychiatrists, the physiotherapists and the radiologist's. How can he

:35:37.:35:42.

think it is a good idea to hold a held summit which excludes the vast

:35:42.:35:50.

majority of people who work in the NHS? What I want to do a safeguard

:35:50.:35:56.

the NHS. We on this side of the house, we are putting more money

:35:56.:36:03.

into the NHS. Money they are specifically, explicitly committed

:36:03.:36:09.

to taking out. Money alone is not going to be enough. We have got to

:36:09.:36:13.

meet the challenge of an ageing population, more expensive

:36:13.:36:18.

treatments, more people on long- term conditions and that is why we

:36:18.:36:23.

have to reform the NHS. My summit was about those organisations

:36:23.:36:26.

including clinical commissioning groups up and down the country,

:36:26.:36:32.

8,200 GP practices that want to put these reforms in place. A Ed

:36:32.:36:38.

Miliband. So he has no answer to his ridiculous sum at which

:36:38.:36:42.

excluded the bass majority of people who were in the medical

:36:42.:36:46.

profession? Let's remind ourselves what the Prime Minister said just a

:36:46.:36:51.

few short months ago during his so called listening exercise. He said

:36:51.:36:55.

change, if it is to work should have the support of people who work

:36:55.:37:02.

in the NHS. We have to take on nurses and doctors with us. Now he

:37:02.:37:06.

can't even be in the same a room as the doctors and nurses! Doesn't

:37:06.:37:12.

that tell him that he has lost the confidence of those who work in our

:37:12.:37:17.

National Health Service? What I want to know is, when is he going

:37:17.:37:23.

to ask a question about the substance of the reforms? He

:37:23.:37:28.

doesn't want to ask about choice because they used to be in favour

:37:28.:37:32.

of choice. But there won't back choice in the bill for stampede

:37:32.:37:36.

does not want to ask a question about competition because they used

:37:36.:37:42.

to favour competition. They used to support GPs are put in charge of

:37:42.:37:47.

health budgets. They won't support it, even though now it is in the

:37:47.:37:52.

bill. Why not ask a serious question? Why not incidentally, as

:37:53.:37:59.

we are being kept here to vote at 7pm on the publication of the risk

:37:59.:38:09.
:38:09.:38:10.

registers, why don't it you ask a question about that? Mr Ed Miliband.

:38:10.:38:17.

If he does not think it is a serious question about the

:38:17.:38:21.

exclusion of the vast majority of people the work in the NHS, he

:38:21.:38:31.
:38:31.:38:33.

shouldn't worried... Order. The house must calm down. Tranquil and

:38:33.:38:38.

statesmanlike is the mode for which a members should stride. Mr Ed

:38:38.:38:42.

Miliband. We will come to the substance of this Bill. But let me

:38:42.:38:48.

ask me -- in his question, there were people who attended the summit

:38:48.:38:53.

and expressed the concerns about his bill, even those who were

:38:53.:38:59.

invited to his summit. So can he tell us what changes, if any, he is

:38:59.:39:06.

planning to make to his bill? doesn't he stop worrying about a my

:39:06.:39:10.

diary and start worrying about his complete lack of substance? We are

:39:10.:39:14.

going ahead with these reforms because we think it is good for

:39:14.:39:18.

patients to have choice. We think it is good to have the involvement

:39:19.:39:22.

of independence and voluntary sectors in the NHS. We think it is

:39:22.:39:26.

good to have more emphasis on public health. That is why we are

:39:26.:39:32.

doing these reforms. Let me remind him of one thing he used to believe.

:39:32.:39:35.

He used to believe this, and this is what his health secretary said -

:39:35.:39:38.

the private sector puts its capacity into the NHS for the

:39:38.:39:43.

benefit of NHS patients, which I think most people in this country

:39:43.:39:48.

will celebrate. They are committed to a 5% cap on the private sector,

:39:48.:39:52.

which would need hospitals like the Marsden Hospital, sacking doctors,

:39:52.:39:58.

sacking nurses and closing wards. Let me ask him again, we are here

:39:58.:40:02.

at 7pm to vote on the risk register, are you going to ask a question

:40:02.:40:08.

about it, or are you frightened of your own motion? It would be good

:40:08.:40:11.

if we can preserve some Parliamentary manners. The Prime

:40:12.:40:14.

Minister will know I am not frightened of anything. Mr Ed

:40:14.:40:20.

Miliband. Mr Speaker, nobody lead - - believes him and nobody trusts

:40:20.:40:26.

him on the NHS. I met with senior staff working with HIV services to

:40:26.:40:31.

explain to me how this Bill will fragment and disrupt services. The

:40:31.:40:35.

Health Secretary should be quiet and listen to the people who work

:40:35.:40:45.
:40:45.:40:47.

in the health service! If he had done some listening before... He

:40:47.:40:52.

should calm down, Mr Speaker. They explain HIV treatments is

:40:52.:40:57.

commissioned by one organisation, the Primary Care Trust. Under his

:40:57.:41:02.

plans, it will be commissioned by three organisations, the national

:41:02.:41:05.

commissioning Board, the clinical commissioning Group and the Health

:41:05.:41:10.

and well-being board. They certainly it will damage the world

:41:10.:41:14.

class service they provide for patients. Why won't he listened to

:41:14.:41:19.

the people who actually know what they are talking about in the NHS?

:41:19.:41:23.

If the Right Honourable Gentleman is opposing other organisations

:41:23.:41:29.

that have expertise in Aids and treatment taking part in the NHS he

:41:29.:41:31.

will be opposing the Terrence Higgins Trust, who do an enormous

:41:31.:41:38.

amount to support her HIV. The fact is, what we can see is complete

:41:38.:41:42.

opportunism from the party opposite. They used to back choice, backed

:41:42.:41:48.

the independent sector, back reform. I say, you don't save the NHS by

:41:48.:41:56.

opposing reform, you save it by delivering reform. Ed Miliband.

:41:56.:42:02.

does not understand his own bill. Mr Speaker, let me just explain to

:42:02.:42:05.

him the question was about the fragmentation of commissioning and

:42:05.:42:15.
:42:15.:42:19.

what the experts... Order. Opposition Members are becoming

:42:19.:42:22.

over-excited. And there is a long time to go and I want to get to the

:42:22.:42:31.

bottom of the Order Paper. Let me address the Health Secretary, I

:42:31.:42:35.

don't think the Prime Minister wants advice from him. Let me

:42:35.:42:39.

explain, it is about the fragmentation of commissioning. You

:42:39.:42:44.

have got it, I am glad. Maybe then when you get up Buchan answer the

:42:45.:42:54.
:42:55.:43:08.

question?! Border! Keep me out of The reason he has lost... Order!

:43:08.:43:16.

Order! I say that to the Shadow Chancellor as well. Members might

:43:16.:43:22.

be enjoying themselves, I ask them to think what the country thinks.

:43:22.:43:28.

Order! Of what the country things on and we conduct ourselves. He has

:43:28.:43:32.

lost the confidence and the NHS because of the promises he made

:43:32.:43:35.

before the election. Will he give a straight answer to the question I

:43:35.:43:41.

asked two weeks ago, and admits he has broken his promise of no top-

:43:41.:43:46.

down reorganisation? Any longer, I think we would have to put him on a

:43:46.:43:53.

waiting list for care, it took so long. He asked about integration,

:43:53.:44:01.

he asks about... Let me explain to him, caused 22 and caused 25 at

:44:01.:44:06.

plays a specific duty on key organisations to integrate health

:44:06.:44:11.

and social care. The Bill is all about integration. Here we are,

:44:12.:44:15.

question five, and he still won't mention his vote on the risk

:44:15.:44:21.

registers. I think I know why. Because I have here Labour's brief

:44:21.:44:25.

for this afternoon's debate. There is an excellent section explaining

:44:25.:44:30.

why you don't publish risk registers. The second argument is

:44:30.:44:35.

particularly strong, it goes like this. Andy Burnham block the

:44:35.:44:38.

publication of the Department of Health Risk register in September

:44:38.:44:48.

2009. There we are, absolutely revealed as a bunch and rank

:44:48.:44:51.

opportunists, not fit to run opposition and not fit for

:44:51.:44:58.

Government. I will tell you what happens under the last Labour

:44:58.:45:02.

Government, the lowest waiting times in history. A more doctors

:45:03.:45:07.

and nurses than ever before. The high as patient satisfaction on the

:45:07.:45:15.

NHS. I will match our record on a NHS with him any day of the week.

:45:15.:45:18.

And the problem with this Prime Minister is he asked people to

:45:18.:45:23.

trust him and he has betrayed that trust. The problem with this Prime

:45:23.:45:27.

Minister is that on the NHS, he thinks he is right and everyone

:45:27.:45:33.

else is wrong. It has become, not a symbol on how his party has changed,

:45:33.:45:39.

but of his arrogance. I'd tell him this, this will become his poll tax.

:45:39.:45:48.

He should listen to the public and Six questions and not a mention of

:45:48.:45:54.

the motion may have put in front of the House tonight! To not back it

:45:54.:45:59.

up is an absence of leadership. Members of both sides of the House

:45:59.:46:04.

are yelling at each other. It is rude and it should stop. Let me

:46:04.:46:08.

tell him what is actually happening in the health service under this

:46:08.:46:14.

government. Waiting times for outpatients, down. Waiting times

:46:14.:46:18.

for in-patients, down. Number of people waiting in total, down.

:46:19.:46:23.

Number of people waiting for more than a year, half. Hospital

:46:23.:46:31.

infections, down. Mixed-sex wards down by 94%. 4,000 more doctors.

:46:31.:46:35.

1,000 more midwives and fewer managers. He talks about what

:46:35.:46:39.

people think about this government. Let me remind him of what his

:46:39.:46:44.

candidate said about him this week. You are not articulating a vision

:46:44.:46:49.

or destination, you are not clearly identifying a course and no one is

:46:50.:46:54.

following years. My problem is, you are not a leader. If I couldn't

:46:54.:47:03.

have put it better myself. Thank you, Mr Speaker. In 2009 when the

:47:03.:47:07.

Conservatives took control of Lancashire County Council,

:47:07.:47:12.

fostering services were rated as unsatisfactory. Since then, their

:47:12.:47:18.

budget has reduced by �120,000 and they are now rated as outstanding.

:47:18.:47:23.

Would my right honourable friend join me in congratulating the

:47:23.:47:25.

county councillor and his Conservative colleagues for not

:47:25.:47:30.

only do more for less but doing it better as well. I certainly join my

:47:30.:47:34.

honourable friend. Across the country you have different councils

:47:34.:47:38.

could be with the issues of fostering and adoption and

:47:38.:47:43.

producing very different results -- coping with the issues. I think we

:47:43.:47:46.

need to publish these figures for we can see which councils are

:47:46.:47:50.

getting value for money but above all, which families are really

:47:50.:47:54.

doing the best to get those children out of care and into a

:47:54.:48:00.

loving home. The national minimum wage has lifted millions of workers

:48:00.:48:05.

out of poverty pay so will the Prime Minister's support hard-

:48:05.:48:09.

working people and give a commitment today to drop and just

:48:09.:48:14.

plans to freeze it? We support the minimum wage and we have supported

:48:14.:48:22.

its up grading and it has an important role to play.

:48:22.:48:27.

children of Somalia should have an expectation of a life before death.

:48:27.:48:31.

Does not tomorrow's London conference at E opportunity to

:48:31.:48:37.

signal to the terrorists and corrupt that we are determined to

:48:37.:48:42.

do what we can to ensure stability and good governance in Somalia --

:48:42.:48:51.

provide the opportunity? Given Somaliland's experience of peace

:48:51.:48:55.

building in the region. We will be welcoming the President of

:48:55.:48:59.

Somaliland to the conference and Somaliland has taken an important

:48:59.:49:03.

step forward in showing that you can have better governance, better

:49:03.:49:07.

economic progress, and they are in many ways an example to follow but

:49:07.:49:11.

this conference is not about recognising Somaliland, it is about

:49:11.:49:15.

trying to put in place the building blocks in the international

:49:15.:49:20.

computer -- community and the Somalis themselves for a stronger

:49:20.:49:26.

Somalia, and that means taking action on piracy, hostages, and to

:49:26.:49:30.

increase funding in Mogadishu, and working with all parts of Somalia

:49:30.:49:35.

to try to give that country, which has been more blighted by famine,

:49:35.:49:39.

disease, terrorism and violence, and almost any other in the world,

:49:39.:49:44.

to give that country a second chance. Given what the Prime

:49:44.:49:48.

Minister said last week in Scotland, which he devote as much time to

:49:48.:49:52.

facing up to the grievances that the English feel from the current

:49:52.:49:59.

proposals of devolution as he will be giving new proposals to

:49:59.:50:06.

Scotland? When he opened a major debate on the English question so

:50:06.:50:10.

that members of all parts of the house can advise him on what

:50:10.:50:14.

measures of devolution English people need if we are too big

:50:14.:50:18.

equity with other parts of the UK - - will he opened a major debate?

:50:18.:50:23.

have set up a West Lothian group to look at this and we need to make

:50:23.:50:27.

sure that devolution works for everyone in the United Kingdom but

:50:27.:50:30.

I would part company slightly because I believe the United

:50:30.:50:34.

Kingdom has been an incredibly successful partnership between all

:50:34.:50:38.

its members and I think that far from wanting to appeal to English

:50:38.:50:43.

people, to nurture a grievance they feel, I want to appeal to my fellow

:50:43.:50:47.

Englishman to say, this has been a great partnership for Scotland and

:50:47.:50:51.

a great partnership for England. Scotland must make its choice but

:50:51.:50:55.

we hope Scotland will choose to remain in this partnership that has

:50:55.:51:01.

done so well for the last 300 years. Does the Prime Minister agree that

:51:01.:51:10.

an elected mayor with more power presents a great authority for

:51:10.:51:14.

local people, including those of us in Bristol that want more rail in

:51:14.:51:20.

the area? I do support having elected mayors in our great cities.

:51:20.:51:24.

It is for those cities to choose. I am encouraged by what has happened

:51:24.:51:28.

in Liverpool. We will be having a referendum and people in Bristol

:51:28.:51:32.

will be able to make that choice but at the same time, the

:51:32.:51:36.

government is going through a huge act and devolution to cities in

:51:36.:51:39.

terms of the powers and the money that we are prepared to offer them

:51:39.:51:44.

so that they can build their own future. If you think of how Bristol

:51:44.:51:49.

leaves Manchester, Liverpool, Birmingham, -- Bristol, Leeds,

:51:49.:51:56.

Manchester. They built themselves up not from instruction from London.

:51:56.:52:01.

On Tuesday, the Education Secretary said the Prime Minister's decision

:52:01.:52:04.

to set up the Leveson Inquiry is having a chilling effect on freedom

:52:04.:52:10.

of expression. Thus the Education Secretary speak for the government?

:52:10.:52:16.

-- does the? It was right to set up the Leveson Inquiry and that is

:52:16.:52:20.

very supported by the entire government but I do think that my

:52:20.:52:24.

right honourable friend is making an important point, which is even

:52:24.:52:28.

as this inquiry goes on, we want to have a vibrant press that feels it

:52:28.:52:35.

can call the powerful to account and we don't want it... Although

:52:35.:52:38.

sometimes one may feel some advantage to having it been chilled,

:52:38.:52:45.

but that is not what we want. constituents will be supporting the

:52:45.:52:50.

Chancellor's refusal yesterday to sign of the EU accounts. Does the

:52:50.:52:54.

Prime Minister agree with me that it is totally unacceptable that for

:52:54.:52:59.

17 years, they have failed to get orderlies to sign off on their

:52:59.:53:04.

accounts? It wasn't just Britain that took the stand, it was the

:53:04.:53:07.

Dutch and the Swedes as well. For too long these accounts have not

:53:07.:53:11.

been properly dealt with and corruption has not been properly

:53:11.:53:17.

dealt with and it is right to make this stand. Last week in Edinburgh,

:53:17.:53:21.

the Prime Minister said there were more powers on the table for

:53:21.:53:25.

Scotland but could not name any. A few months ago he mocked the idea

:53:25.:53:30.

of Scotland control its own oil wealth. Can the Prime Minister at

:53:30.:53:36.

name one power he has on his mind from this latest U-turn? I did not

:53:36.:53:40.

think that the Scottish Nationalist Party favour devolution! I thought

:53:40.:53:43.

they favour of separation! Yet a thing as you are offered a

:53:43.:53:47.

referendum that gives you the chance to put that in front of the

:53:47.:53:52.

Scottish people, you start running away -- as soon as you. Tomorrow

:53:52.:53:57.

members of this House will have the chance to debate the importance of

:53:57.:54:01.

cycling. The Minister for cycling has made some welcome and

:54:01.:54:06.

announcements and Investment. There is much to do. Will the Prime

:54:06.:54:10.

Minister commit the government to support this campaign, increase

:54:10.:54:13.

investment in cycling and take much greater steps to promote cycling

:54:13.:54:19.

across the country? This Times campaign is excellent. Anyone who

:54:19.:54:24.

has got on a bicycle particularly in one of our busiest cities knows

:54:24.:54:30.

that you are taking your life into your hands. We do need to do more

:54:30.:54:34.

to makes life a link -- cycling safer. The government is making it

:54:34.:54:42.

putting in money for training for children and better cycling routes

:54:42.:54:46.

and facilities. If we want to encourage the growth in cycling we

:54:46.:54:51.

have seen, we want to get behind campaigns like this. Since he has

:54:51.:55:01.
:55:01.:55:03.

been prime minister,... The company has won contracts on

:55:03.:55:09.

the DWP alone worth 224 million. In view of the facts there are record

:55:09.:55:13.

numbers of unemployed people and that employees of this company have

:55:13.:55:17.

been arrested, what action is he taking to make sure that neither

:55:17.:55:22.

vulnerable unemployed people from all the taxpayer are victims of

:55:22.:55:31.

fraud? This is an important issue. I understand this issue dates back

:55:31.:55:36.

two years to schemes run by the previous government... It was the

:55:36.:55:40.

company itself that raised the issue with the relevant authorities.

:55:40.:55:43.

There is an ongoing police investigation so it would be

:55:43.:55:47.

inappropriate for me to comment further. The investigation needs to

:55:47.:55:51.

be thorough and then we can take into account its findings.

:55:52.:55:55.

Generations of young people have benefited from work experience

:55:55.:55:59.

schemes through getting any experience of the working world.

:55:59.:56:02.

Will the Prime Minister praised those companies who will do

:56:02.:56:07.

everything they possibly can to encourage work experience schemes

:56:07.:56:13.

unlike the militant hard left who would like to see people get a

:56:13.:56:22.

handout rather than a hand up? is true, the overwhelming majority

:56:22.:56:26.

of the country thinks that companies offering work experience

:56:26.:56:30.

schemes to those on benefits is a good thing. It is not a compulsory

:56:30.:56:35.

scheme, it is a scheme that young people have asked to go on and the

:56:35.:56:38.

findings are that around half of them are getting work at the end of

:56:38.:56:43.

these schemes. That is a far better outcome than the Future Jobs Fund

:56:43.:56:47.

and about the 20th of the cost so we should encourage companies and

:56:48.:56:50.

young people to expand work- experience because it gives people

:56:50.:56:54.

the chance of seeing work and all that it involves an gives them a

:56:54.:56:59.

better chance of getting a job. Thousands of workers right across

:56:59.:57:04.

Lancashire in every constituency are concerned and angry about the

:57:04.:57:09.

Eurofighter Indian contract. Earlier this week you her -- had a

:57:09.:57:14.

meeting with the Tory MPs. When will you be arranging a meeting for

:57:14.:57:18.

all Lancashire MPs? I am not arranging any meetings at 10

:57:18.:57:23.

Downing Street but it is possible the Prime Minister might. I met

:57:23.:57:28.

with a number of MPs who have BAE Systems in their constituents,

:57:28.:57:35.

including the honourable member for Hull, so why have had many MPs come

:57:35.:57:41.

to see me. -- so I have had. This government is committed to helping

:57:41.:57:45.

with Thai food in every way we can and that is why I had been taking

:57:45.:57:52.

trips right across the Middle East -- Typhoon. I often get criticised

:57:52.:58:00.

by Labour MPs for taking BAe system on the aeroplane but I think it is

:58:00.:58:05.

right to fly the flag for British Industry! Last week at the

:58:05.:58:11.

breakfast table... My wife was saying how she knew the Prime

:58:11.:58:16.

Minister wanted to deport that terrorist Abu Qatada straight away

:58:16.:58:26.

and put the national interest first,... But she knew it was being

:58:26.:58:29.

blocked by the Deputy Prime Minister and the Liberal Democrats.

:58:29.:58:34.

Suddenly, our 11-year-old son Thomas asked...

:58:34.:58:43.

LAUGHTER Foster are his Nick Clegg a goodie or a bad it? -- is Nick

:58:43.:58:48.

Clegg a goodie or baddie? There is only so much detail I can take from

:58:48.:58:53.

your household! In believing that I am very keen that Abu Qatada should

:58:53.:58:58.

be deported, your wife is indeed psychic. That is exactly what I

:58:58.:59:02.

believe. That is why the Home Secretary is working so hard with

:59:02.:59:06.

the Jordanians to get the assurances that we need so that

:59:06.:59:10.

this can take place and the Deputy Prime Minister family backs that

:59:10.:59:20.
:59:20.:59:20.

approach! -- fully backs that approach! Rents are falling in the

:59:20.:59:24.

private rented sector, you have said, when the evidence is that

:59:24.:59:29.

rent is rising. Will the Prime Minister now take this opportunity

:59:29.:59:35.

to put the record straight or which he continued to blame the tenant

:59:35.:59:39.

when the real responsibility lies with landlords charging ever higher

:59:39.:59:42.

rent and a failure of his government's house building

:59:42.:59:52.

programme -- which he continued to blame? Coming from a party that saw

:59:52.:59:58.

housebuilding fall to its lowest level since the 1920s! We have put

:59:58.:00:03.

great effort into stamping out and kicking out racism in football in

:00:03.:00:08.

this country. When my right honourable friend brings together

:00:08.:00:11.

the sport later today, will he assure the House he will do

:00:11.:00:15.

everything to ensure that prejudice does not creep back into the game

:00:15.:00:19.

and that racism stays out of football? My honourable friend is

:00:19.:00:25.

right to raise this. It was a huge achievement, where Britain and its

:00:25.:00:28.

football authorities and football clubs lead the world in kicking

:00:28.:00:32.

racism Out Of Football, something that has not happened in all other

:00:32.:00:37.

countries. Some of the recent signs are worrying. This matters so much

:00:37.:00:40.

not just to football but to government and everyone in the

:00:40.:00:44.

country because footballers are role-models to young people. What

:00:44.:00:48.

people see on the football pitch, they copied when they go to learn

:00:48.:00:52.

to play football so it is important to bring people together and make

:00:52.:00:59.

sure we keep racism out of football for good. Can I associate myself

:00:59.:01:03.

with the Prime Minister's condolences to the member of the

:01:03.:01:07.

armed forces who lost his life in the last week? I am sure the Prime

:01:07.:01:11.

Minister would like to join me in thanking the thousands of people we

:01:11.:01:16.

serve in the reserve armed forces. However, does he agree that it is

:01:16.:01:21.

inappropriate and unsatisfactory and perhaps even arrogant that when

:01:21.:01:26.

constituents to serve in the reserve Marine forces in Dundee

:01:26.:01:31.

expressed concerns about the possible closure of that attachment,

:01:31.:01:35.

I wrote to the Ministry of Defence and they have refused to give me a

:01:35.:01:39.

definitive answer? I thank the honourable gentleman for raising

:01:39.:01:45.

the case of the brave man from the RAF who gave his life and all of

:01:45.:01:50.

those who serve in Afghanistan. The Reserve forces in our country are a

:01:50.:01:55.

huge national asset. We want to see them expanded. We have put an

:01:55.:02:03.

billion pounds into that expansion to make sure that we can do that.

:02:03.:02:12.

No decision has been taken on the future of Dundee. If you look

:02:12.:02:18.

across Scotland, you will see we need more people to join the

:02:18.:02:23.

reserves. I hope everybody will back the recruitment campaigns

:02:23.:02:28.

because if we are going to move to an army of 80,000 regulars and

:02:28.:02:32.

40,000 reservists, we need a cultural change will be really

:02:32.:02:37.

respect what our reserve forces are doing -- where we really respect.

:02:37.:02:43.

The US marshals will on Friday is caught my 65-year-old constituent

:02:43.:02:48.

from Heathrow to a jail in Texas where he will face pressure to

:02:48.:02:58.
:02:58.:02:59.

plea-bargain -- if caught. Can the Prime Minister say the steps he is

:02:59.:03:03.

taking to withdraw the expedition treaty which has been so unfair to

:03:03.:03:08.

the likes of Gary McKinnon and now my constituent. I understand why my

:03:08.:03:13.

honourable friend raises this. In the case of Chris tapping, he has

:03:13.:03:19.

obviously been through a number of processes, and the Home Secretary

:03:19.:03:23.

has thoroughly considered his case. He raised his book point more

:03:23.:03:27.

generally of the report into the extradition arrangements, which we

:03:28.:03:32.

are now considering. He did not call for fundamental reform. The

:03:32.:03:35.

Home Secretary will carefully examine his findings and take into

:03:35.:03:39.

account the views of Parliament that have been expressed in recent

:03:39.:03:43.

debates. Balancing these arrangements is vital but it is

:03:43.:03:47.

important that at the same time we remember why we welcome -- enter

:03:47.:03:52.

into these treaties, which is to show respect for each other's

:03:52.:03:55.

judicial treaties and make sure people can be tried for crimes and

:03:55.:04:00.

Britain can benefit from that as well, so a proper and thoughtful

:04:00.:04:07.

review must take place and this case shows why. My government

:04:07.:04:12.

response to the unfair relationship between pub companies and their

:04:12.:04:18.

licensees so far has been self- regulation, not statutory

:04:18.:04:24.

regulation. On January 12th, this House voted unanimously to set up a

:04:24.:04:29.

review panel to be agreed by the Business Select Committee to review

:04:29.:04:33.

the implementation of self- regulation. To date there has been

:04:33.:04:37.

absolutely no response from the government. Can the Prime Minister

:04:37.:04:42.

tell me, is he back in the will of Parliament or the will of the pub

:04:42.:04:47.

companies? I am a keen supporter of Britain's pubs so I will write to

:04:47.:04:52.

the honourable gentleman and get a good answer. In his speech made in

:04:52.:04:56.

Edinburgh last week, the Prime Minister described Scotland as a

:04:56.:05:00.

pioneering country and a turbine hall of the Industrial Revolution.

:05:01.:05:05.

The next revolution in this country will be in green technology and the

:05:05.:05:10.

Green Investment Bank will be key in its promotion. Does he agree it

:05:10.:05:20.
:05:20.:05:28.

Edinburgh is the perfect location And the different towns and cities

:05:28.:05:35.

and regions want to host this green investments of the investment bank.

:05:35.:05:39.

Can I ask the Prime Minister returning to the issue of the NHS

:05:39.:05:42.

and the Pirton and question posed by the leader of the opposition,

:05:42.:05:47.

why has the Prime Minister broken his promise not to engage in

:05:47.:05:51.

another top and reorganisation of the National Health Service?

:05:51.:05:55.

What we are doing is abolishing the bureaucracy that has been holding

:05:55.:06:00.

the NHS back. We will be cutting in this Parliament, �4.5 billion of

:06:00.:06:05.

bureaucracy by getting rid of the primary care trusts and strategic

:06:05.:06:08.

health authorities, all of which will be invested in patient care.

:06:08.:06:16.

His own party's policy is saying real increases in NHS spending are

:06:16.:06:20.

"irresponsible". We think it is responsible and that is why we are

:06:20.:06:24.

putting the money in and they will take the money out. There have been

:06:24.:06:28.

lot of interruptions but I am concerned about the interests of

:06:28.:06:34.

backbenchers. Last week in Ethiopia would save the children, I saw at

:06:34.:06:38.

first hand how malnutrition is stunting the growth of the world's

:06:38.:06:43.

poorest children. Does the Prime Minister agreed the UK as a real

:06:43.:06:46.

opportunity to lead the international debate which will

:06:46.:06:50.

help the growth of the world's children and economic growth as

:06:50.:06:56.

well. I think she is right about this. Not only because we work with

:06:56.:07:02.

excellent organisations, Save the children, who do excellent work,

:07:02.:07:07.

but the UK is the second largest bilateral donor into the horn of

:07:07.:07:12.

Africa where we have seen this awful famine. Not only are we doing

:07:12.:07:17.

our bit in terms of investment and time, but it gives us an

:07:17.:07:20.

opportunity to lead the debate on where we need to take the

:07:20.:07:25.

development on aid agenda next. Order. Ten-minute rule motion.

:07:25.:07:31.

The Speaker allowed PMQs to overrun because of the interruptions and

:07:31.:07:37.

the rowdiness during questions about the NHS. I was thinking I

:07:37.:07:43.

wonder if the founding fathers of the NHS going back to 1848, would

:07:43.:07:48.

have thought by 2012 it could still create such heat and light in the

:07:48.:07:53.

House of Commons, so many years later? Ed Miliband decided to go on

:07:53.:07:58.

that subject. It is the first pit - - fur PMQs in a row he has gone on

:07:58.:08:08.
:08:08.:08:09.

the NHS. -- third PMQs. As you say, most people think David

:08:09.:08:12.

Cameron was on the run over this issue.

:08:12.:08:19.

Diane said, I have heard nothing from David Cameron that reduces my

:08:19.:08:24.

anxiety and the NHS reforms. This from David in Birmingham -

:08:24.:08:32.

complete hypocrisy. David Cameron said his reforms needed the support

:08:32.:08:34.

of health professionals but he is ignoring them because they don't

:08:35.:08:38.

agree. Someone else said, what of those

:08:38.:08:43.

risk registers Ed Miliband was going on about?

:08:43.:08:48.

Martin from Wolverhampton said, Ed Miliband's questions were shallow,

:08:48.:08:52.

the role of Government should be to lead, that means facing down

:08:52.:08:58.

interest groups who oppose change. Someone else said, are all Ed

:08:58.:09:03.

Miliband cares about is people the work in the NHS, not about those

:09:03.:09:09.

who use it. I remember the days in the NHS was

:09:09.:09:16.

not to talk about it. Except that we will ring-fence it, but it is

:09:16.:09:20.

safe in our hands. When they said that, the polls showed they

:09:20.:09:25.

overtook Labour and trust for a brief period. Today the gap is back

:09:25.:09:35.
:09:35.:09:36.

to his -- its historic whiteness. Where did it go wrong? It is a

:09:36.:09:41.

self-inflicted wound. People do give David Cameron credit for the

:09:41.:09:46.

reform of the NHS, which since its foundation has been seen as a

:09:46.:09:50.

Labour issue. Margaret Thatcher said she went private because she

:09:50.:09:54.

wanted to go to see the doctor she wanted, on the day she wanted and

:09:54.:09:58.

the time she wanted. But then became the policy of all

:09:58.:10:02.

governments within the NHS, rather than the private sector. The truth

:10:03.:10:06.

is they did not think through the politics of what this Bill would

:10:06.:10:10.

mean and how they would get it through. David Cameron is

:10:10.:10:15.

determined not to abandon it, and as I was saying, the biggest threat

:10:15.:10:22.

to it now comes from the grass roups -- grass roots the Lib Dem

:10:22.:10:26.

revolt rather than the Cabinet, where everyone has decided to hold

:10:26.:10:29.

their nose, carry on until the summer and hope something else

:10:29.:10:36.

comes up. The danger is, if they give in to more concessions to the

:10:36.:10:40.

Lib Dems, or Labour Peers and the House of Lords, and they whittle it

:10:40.:10:46.

down even more, it won't be worth the candle. They have all this he

:10:46.:10:49.

put on them for reforms for skeleton of what it was meant to

:10:49.:10:57.

be? Not only that, what Ed Miliband argued also, a change had to have

:10:58.:11:01.

the doctors and nurses on side, now you won't be in the same room as

:11:01.:11:07.

them. The most interesting one which David Cameron ignored was the

:11:07.:11:10.

complexity of commissioning. I know ministers who are worried, that in

:11:10.:11:15.

an attempt to bite of this opposition, keep the Lib Dems happy,

:11:15.:11:20.

they have created a more and more complex bureaucratic structure, but

:11:20.:11:24.

far from saving cash will involve a series of disputes from different

:11:24.:11:31.

bodies within the NHS, it is this our money to spend? Let's have a

:11:31.:11:38.

legal challenge to it. So the challenge which is recognised by

:11:38.:11:42.

ministers internally. The big week will be next week over the

:11:42.:11:47.

competition. The hints given by Nick Clegg he gave today, is a week

:11:47.:11:51.

are a listening Government. So the hint was, there may be more

:11:51.:11:57.

concessions to come on the issue of competition. It is not just the

:11:57.:12:01.

public understanding the detail, it is most people involved in the NHS,

:12:01.:12:05.

we work for an organisation, we don't always understand the detail

:12:05.:12:09.

on how they run. But the danger is things go wrong in a way that

:12:09.:12:12.

affects patient care and then people turn round and blame the

:12:12.:12:18.

Government. If you could escape Cabinet collective responsibility

:12:18.:12:22.

and able to be honest with us, I bet you would say, Andrew, I wish

:12:22.:12:28.

we had never gone down this road? On the hypothetical, I cannot

:12:28.:12:33.

escape collective responsibility. I don't want it. The choice is

:12:33.:12:38.

whether you think the NHS can standstill or if you have to make

:12:38.:12:42.

changes to enable it to rise to the challenges of the ageing population,

:12:42.:12:46.

the cost of treatment, the long- term illnesses people have. We

:12:46.:12:50.

believe it is necessary to make these changes. It is in the context

:12:50.:12:56.

of rising spending on the NHS, are the principal it remains care that

:12:56.:13:00.

it is free at the point of use and extending the principles the

:13:00.:13:03.

previous Government agreed to. people think you could have done

:13:03.:13:07.

these changes without the need for a massive bill. We could have

:13:07.:13:11.

picked up where Labour left off and you could have continued without

:13:11.:13:18.

the left of the Labour Party and the unions... Then you would have

:13:18.:13:24.

lost significant savings because removing these bureaucracies...

:13:24.:13:31.

have created bigger bureaucracies since the NHS has been founded?

:13:31.:13:35.

is a 4.5 billion saving. I don't think is true there is unanimous

:13:35.:13:37.

opposition amongst the professionals in the health service.

:13:37.:13:43.

I know from my own constituency, talking to GPs, where the ability

:13:43.:13:47.

control services in the interest of the patience is welcomed. It was

:13:47.:13:50.

clear from the summit, where the Prime Minister was talking to these

:13:51.:13:56.

groups on how the changes will work. The other., Labour believed there

:13:56.:13:59.

is a short-term advantage in jumping on this and opposing these

:13:59.:14:04.

reforms. But, look at how they are going back on reforms from a

:14:04.:14:08.

position the previous Government had. Backwards on health reform

:14:08.:14:15.

where they are turning their back on education and the anti- reform

:14:15.:14:20.

parties. It won't do them very good. Caroline Flint, we know Labour is

:14:20.:14:25.

against this health bill, you are voting against it and so on. But

:14:25.:14:30.

does Labour have a policy on health now? We did have a policy on health

:14:30.:14:35.

which we still support. It involves looking at our health service and

:14:35.:14:40.

how it changes. We still support more of the services in hospitals,

:14:40.:14:44.

being in communities to prevent people getting ill. The key issue,

:14:44.:14:49.

is the start of this process the Government embarked upon, a process

:14:49.:14:52.

they promised in the manifesto they wouldn't and wasn't in the

:14:52.:14:57.

coalition agreement. They wanted to put clinicians, the health service

:14:57.:14:59.

workers in the front line of the discussions about the future of the

:14:59.:15:05.

NHS. We now have a situation where, I would say it is unanimous, ensure

:15:05.:15:09.

you will find doctors and nurses who supported - but overwhelmingly

:15:10.:15:13.

all the institutions to represent doctors, radiologist's and nurses

:15:13.:15:18.

and so on, say they are not happy. Why are they not happy? It could

:15:19.:15:22.

open up our NHS to European competition law which would distort

:15:22.:15:29.

the way we have a managed NHS which uses the private and public sector

:15:29.:15:33.

to effect. It is different to using the private sector to get capacity

:15:33.:15:38.

into opening it up to a free-for- all. They are saying in our

:15:38.:15:43.

hospitals, in order to balance the books, half the beds been used for

:15:43.:15:47.

private patients. We are hearing consultants saying, we cannot see

:15:47.:15:51.

within the time limits we used to have, but if you go private we will

:15:51.:15:57.

see you next week. I don't want to go back to those days. Waiting

:15:57.:16:02.

times are falling. They are falling for in-patients and outpatients.

:16:02.:16:07.

Waiting times for A&E are missing their targets, waiting times to get

:16:07.:16:13.

is seen in 18 weeks are. Can I come back and get an answer to my

:16:13.:16:18.

question? How will Labour reform the NHS? We would carry on some of

:16:18.:16:21.

the work we were dealing in Government, which is look at ways

:16:22.:16:26.

in which having services in our community which will better help

:16:26.:16:33.

people prevents illnesses in the future. What else? Collaborative

:16:33.:16:38.

network to do with cancer. One of the dangers the Government is doing

:16:38.:16:42.

now... You on to the Government again, I am asking you about Labour

:16:42.:16:49.

now. Our policy is supporting and managed NHS. I don't know what that

:16:49.:16:55.

means? You have an NHS that has local accountability and we have

:16:55.:16:59.

said we are happy to look at a more clinician input into that. We had

:16:59.:17:04.

an NHS that it was working well, huge satisfaction and cost-

:17:04.:17:07.

effective, when you look at some of the regimes around the world where

:17:07.:17:11.

it is a more private sector involvement. In our country we have

:17:11.:17:15.

something unique and precious, and which is why so many members of the

:17:15.:17:18.

public, including those who vote Conservative are worried about what

:17:18.:17:23.

might happen to something that is so valued within our country.

:17:23.:17:28.

Miliband, third week in a row he has done well? Yes, this is a rich

:17:28.:17:33.

seam for him. He is playing the Prime Minister's words back at him.

:17:34.:17:37.

What is so damaging for David Cameron is having those words to

:17:37.:17:42.

say we have to have the doctors and nurses onside, and now the joke,

:17:42.:17:46.

you cannot have them in the same route. It does enormous damage to

:17:46.:17:51.

the Prime Minister. Another break point, Frank Field, Labour

:17:51.:17:54.

backbencher speaking up for the English. And when he did so, saying

:17:54.:17:58.

they should be more devolution, quite a lot of Cheers. I could not

:17:58.:18:08.
:18:08.:18:10.

see where they were coming from, I There is a growing view that

:18:10.:18:13.

Westminster are just has to negotiate the terms of the divorce,

:18:13.:18:17.

but if the Scottish decide to stay in the UK but want one devolution,

:18:17.:18:21.

that becomes as big an issue for England as for Scotland and it

:18:21.:18:26.

cannot be one way. It is not up to the Scots alone to decide what more

:18:26.:18:30.

devolution should mean. The rest of the United Kingdom has to have a

:18:30.:18:35.

say as well. There are aspects which are important for us to

:18:35.:18:40.

discuss in England. If we look at regions around the country, bit

:18:40.:18:45.

ability for them to encourage investment -- and the ability. I am

:18:45.:18:49.

sure places like the Yorkshire and Humberside, where I have my

:18:49.:18:54.

constituency, we would like to look at opportunities for that... Back

:18:54.:19:01.

to regional government. In the localism built... No... We put in a

:19:01.:19:05.

bill to allow some of the powers that the mayor in London has in

:19:05.:19:10.

other parts of England. This is a debate that is about England as

:19:10.:19:18.

well. There were huge latitude over tax regimes and therefore you get

:19:19.:19:23.

into internal tax competition, where the Scots are able to do one

:19:23.:19:30.

thing in the north and the Midlands have no... A lot of the anger was

:19:30.:19:35.

about MPs just below the border, in the north, who could see the new

:19:35.:19:40.

powers and ability just a few miles away, and thought, what about us?

:19:40.:19:45.

It is the extremities of the UK, often amongst the poorest, the

:19:45.:19:49.

north-east, the south-west for example, where people will say, we

:19:49.:19:54.

need more power. The West Lothian question should remain. A lot of

:19:55.:20:02.

people will think that if there is devolution, more devolution, they

:20:02.:20:06.

will wonder whether Scottish MPs will be voting at all on purely

:20:06.:20:12.

English matters. It is all in debate. Only two more years to go!

:20:12.:20:17.

We don't have to resolve its this week! Big news while we were

:20:17.:20:23.

watching PMQs. Eric Pickles has sent me a tweet to say he wants a

:20:23.:20:30.

cup, too. Being avuncular and friendly, Eric Pickles, we will

:20:30.:20:35.

give you one but you have to come on the programme to get it. A are

:20:35.:20:40.

you going to be Big Lunch? I always like a big lunch.

:20:40.:20:42.

Just 156 days to go before the London Olympics, and preparations

:20:42.:20:46.

for the Games are stepping up a gear. Today a mocked-up terror

:20:46.:20:49.

attack on the London Underground is being staged as part of a massive

:20:49.:20:53.

exercise to test security. And this morning Nick Clegg has been

:20:53.:20:57.

visiting some of the venues for the Games. The Deputy PM said he

:20:58.:21:01.

believed the Olympics will leave a legacy of growth and jobs for the

:21:01.:21:05.

area. But not everyone is happy about the greatest show on earth

:21:05.:21:13.

arriving in London. The writer Iain Sinclair has spent decades

:21:13.:21:15.

documenting the capital city and its edgelands. He says the Olympic

:21:15.:21:18.

development in east London has ruined one of the capital's most

:21:18.:21:28.
:21:28.:21:44.

magical wildernesses. Here's his The promoters of the great Olympic

:21:44.:21:48.

schemes in the Lower Lea Valley keep stressing at every possible

:21:48.:21:54.

occasion that this area was nothing but a waste land, when in fact it

:21:54.:21:58.

was one of the most magical margins of London, reduced by their

:21:59.:22:06.

activities to nothing but a toxic well than us. -- wilderness. The

:22:06.:22:10.

special quality of this landscape is that it mixed decaying

:22:11.:22:17.

industrialism with grunge pasture, a wild nature of orchards that

:22:17.:22:20.

everybody was free to wander, and we are now in danger of losing all

:22:20.:22:26.

of that for some concrete Arcadia, some computer-generated future, and

:22:26.:22:35.

I am sad about that. One of the consequences of creating the bright

:22:35.:22:40.

new future is the expulsion of the inconvenient old past. The people

:22:41.:22:44.

who used to be here, living in warehouses, walking along the

:22:44.:22:50.

marshes, cycling, fishing. They all had to make way, the whole

:22:50.:23:00.
:23:00.:23:05.

One of the consequences of the great Olympic development has been

:23:05.:23:10.

the privatisation of public space and a huge growth in the apparatus

:23:10.:23:18.

of security. We have created an area which has to be protected. So

:23:18.:23:22.

this is the legacy that all the fuss has been about. A flat-pack

:23:22.:23:28.

stadium, an Aquatic Centre at looks like a concrete factory, a gigantic

:23:28.:23:33.

artwork and an enormous shopping mall. I don't think it is worth it.

:23:33.:23:38.

I think back to that wonderful will do miss that was here before. Not a

:23:38.:23:44.

waste land. -- wilderness. One of the most manifest, rich and

:23:44.:23:48.

deserving parts of London, and I am sorry to lose it.

:23:48.:23:53.

And Iain Sinclair is with us now. He painted a very poetic picture of

:23:53.:23:58.

an area that others might have said you have romanticised and actually

:23:58.:24:03.

it was wasteland and has now been put to better use. Being a romantic

:24:03.:24:08.

does not disqualify you from being revolutionary. If you go back to

:24:08.:24:12.

Wordsworth and William Blake, romanticism is just having an

:24:12.:24:16.

enriched sense of the past and to honour the past and not to enforce

:24:16.:24:20.

that amnesia upon it that way it's everything out to the glittering

:24:20.:24:28.

better future. -- that wipes everything out. Are you a lone

:24:28.:24:34.

voice? You described the number of people using the area. Locally

:24:34.:24:40.

there is a huge support for what I say. The officials always used this

:24:40.:24:45.

term "Waste Land" and say there was nothing there. One of the things

:24:45.:24:50.

that was there is this list of compulsory purchases and it goes on

:24:50.:24:55.

for page after page, hundreds and hundreds of names. That was what

:24:55.:24:59.

was there. While we were waking that film, an old man with a dog

:24:59.:25:05.

came to me and said, I don't know where I am, I grew up here, there

:25:05.:25:08.

were eight different businesses where I took an apprenticeship. It

:25:09.:25:13.

has all gone. But as you said, it is part of the decay of

:25:13.:25:18.

industrialism and that is why perhaps it has gone. It has gone in

:25:18.:25:22.

that sense. That world has passed and what was left was the

:25:22.:25:27.

environment. Is that not a signal to move on? It was a signal that

:25:27.:25:31.

this was a good territory to exploit because it was dying

:25:31.:25:34.

industrial mixed with a rough country that nobody could see what

:25:34.:25:38.

to do with. The awful thing is that it has been a mirror image of what

:25:38.:25:43.

we think it is. In fact there were active boat clubs and sports

:25:43.:25:47.

facilities, great chunks of Hackney Marshes have been turned into

:25:47.:25:52.

concrete, there is a battle going on at the moment about a car park

:25:52.:25:56.

taking over the marshes and a basketball court and they do not

:25:56.:26:01.

want the tarmac there, but you have to have the tarmac for the cars.

:26:01.:26:07.

not there, where would you have put the Olympic village? Paris.

:26:07.:26:13.

Let's think of something within the UK! I would not have put it is.

:26:13.:26:16.

Really we should not have gone for it. We should have learnt the

:26:17.:26:21.

lesson of pickets lot. We got the World Athletics Championships a few

:26:21.:26:25.

years before this and we had to give them back. We were going to

:26:25.:26:30.

use it to exploit any we around the M25 and it did not make sense

:26:30.:26:36.

economically so we abandoned it. Just to go back to where it is, do

:26:36.:26:42.

you think there is a sense of regret that this Waste Land, will

:26:42.:26:50.

do this, has gone forever? I have no regrets as well at all. It is a

:26:50.:26:54.

wonderful iconoclastic view but it is Waste Land. Let's look at the

:26:54.:27:01.

legacy. There are going to be 11,000 houses permanently created,

:27:01.:27:06.

we desperately need those houses, low-cost accommodation with that,

:27:06.:27:11.

as 10,000 jobs that will be permanently created as well. -- and

:27:11.:27:15.

10,000 jobs. I think that is something the public will welcome.

:27:15.:27:21.

Women look at these industrial and grimy canals -- when they look at.

:27:21.:27:25.

They will say, this is a very good use of the land and something that

:27:25.:27:31.

will benefit the public. We can't put it as housing because this is

:27:31.:27:37.

extremely radioactive soil. 7500 tons of radioactive soil came out

:27:37.:27:41.

under that stadium and is sitting in a disposal unit. This was an

:27:42.:27:47.

area of land on dams, a small nuclear reactor... Which makes the

:27:47.:27:51.

point, this has been a fantastic opportunity for the East End to

:27:51.:27:57.

detoxify the area. But they can't do it! Newham Council have done a

:27:57.:28:03.

fantastic job. They have already got 5,000 people into work, 2500

:28:03.:28:09.

long-term unemployed, they have 300 social homes coming on, 300

:28:09.:28:13.

affordable homes. I look at that as a mother and I want open space but

:28:13.:28:19.

I want open space where I think my children would be safe to go into.

:28:19.:28:23.

That isn't what it represented in terms of what you presented in your

:28:23.:28:29.

film. You have to move on. I have been there 45 years, I have put my

:28:29.:28:33.

children round and my grandchildren round and they have also right!

:28:33.:28:40.

have had the final word, thank you. -- they have all thrived. Their due

:28:40.:28:49.

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