Browse content similar to 23/05/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Good morning, folks. This is the Daily Politics. Today's top story: | :00:43. | :00:49. | |
It should we be waving farewell to plan A and embracing plan B? How do | :00:49. | :00:54. | |
you stimulate growth without borrowing even more? That is the | :00:54. | :00:58. | |
$64 billion question. After the G8 get together in the | :00:58. | :01:02. | |
USA which resolved nothing, European leaders meet in Brussels | :01:02. | :01:06. | |
tonight in yet another attempt to sort it all out. We will have the | :01:06. | :01:09. | |
latest but don't hold your breath for a breakthrough. | :01:09. | :01:13. | |
Get your bunting out, it is the last PMQs before the Jubilee and a | :01:13. | :01:18. | |
rather long recess. Is this man in a hard hat the | :01:18. | :01:22. | |
Socialist? And are you depressed over | :01:22. | :01:25. | |
impending eurogeddon and the possible grexit? If you are, | :01:25. | :01:31. | |
chillax. Let me guess, nobody has a clue what I am talking about. For a | :01:31. | :01:41. | |
:01:41. | :01:43. | ||
change! What does that mean? How much do we spend every year on | :01:43. | :01:48. | |
education?! All that and more coming up in the next 90 minutes of | :01:48. | :01:52. | |
should the award-winning television. You do not need to be at the Cannes | :01:52. | :01:56. | |
Film Festival, but I wish I was. You just need to be at home | :01:56. | :01:59. | |
watching BBC Two because we have some wannabes on the programme | :01:59. | :02:03. | |
fighting it out for the leading actor award. Brad Pitt, eat your | :02:03. | :02:08. | |
heart out. Jeremy Browne, a Lib Dem. And the shadow health secretary, | :02:08. | :02:14. | |
Andy Burnham. Welcome to you both. Let's turn our attention to Iran. | :02:15. | :02:17. | |
Diplomats are meeting in Baghdad today to discuss their nuclear | :02:17. | :02:24. | |
programme. Israel along with America has views to rule out a | :02:24. | :02:27. | |
pre-emptive strike on their nuclear facilities. Senior ministers in the | :02:27. | :02:31. | |
UK have taken legal advice on what role if any Britain might play in | :02:31. | :02:41. | |
the event of an attack on Iran by Israel, America or by both. Is it | :02:41. | :02:45. | |
true that senior Lib Dems have been getting together to discuss what | :02:45. | :02:49. | |
your party's position would be if an attack took place? I think we | :02:50. | :02:53. | |
have to plan for every possible scenario. That is the Government as | :02:53. | :02:58. | |
a whole, but also each individual political party, which needs to | :02:58. | :03:02. | |
think through what its response would be. So we are going through | :03:02. | :03:05. | |
those contingency planning exercises. But we do not wish for | :03:05. | :03:10. | |
that end. Nobody does. We hope the talks are successful. We agree with | :03:10. | :03:13. | |
the Iranians. They say they don't want to clear weapons and we don't | :03:14. | :03:17. | |
want them to have them. The question is how we get to that | :03:17. | :03:20. | |
point and that is what we are trying to achieve. I get that the | :03:20. | :03:24. | |
Government is doing contingency planning, they do that all the time. | :03:24. | :03:34. | |
The National Security Council, that is part of their function. But what | :03:34. | :03:37. | |
about a political party getting together? The Lib Dems are not | :03:37. | :03:41. | |
doing contingency planning. You are working out what your response as | :03:41. | :03:45. | |
the party would be. I understand the point that you are making but I | :03:45. | :03:50. | |
think you are magnifying it. So you have met? We have our own party | :03:50. | :03:52. | |
mechanisms were discussing big issues that are potentially | :03:52. | :03:58. | |
contentious. Including Iran? pleading Iran. And what conclusion | :03:58. | :04:05. | |
have you come to? -- including Iran. We have not come to a conclusion as | :04:05. | :04:08. | |
such, because we are discussing their thinking, which is true of | :04:08. | :04:14. | |
other areas as well. There is no view at all? I think one of the | :04:14. | :04:18. | |
things that the party is interested in discussing is that there are so | :04:18. | :04:22. | |
many different aspects of what the impact would be on the wider Middle | :04:22. | :04:27. | |
East, on oil supplies, on human rights. There are all kinds of | :04:28. | :04:31. | |
features of this very difficult situation. I think people will want | :04:31. | :04:36. | |
to discuss that. It would be hugely disruptive and a massive moment for | :04:36. | :04:40. | |
foreign policy if it gets to the worst case scenario. It would be | :04:40. | :04:43. | |
strange political parties only started thinking about their views | :04:43. | :04:48. | |
on the subjects if and when that day arrives. Is it possible to say | :04:48. | :04:52. | |
what Labour's response would be if there was an attack on Iran? | :04:52. | :04:56. | |
don't think it is possible to say that today. This weekend there was | :04:56. | :05:01. | |
a worrying development. A senior figure in the Iranian military was | :05:01. | :05:08. | |
talking about for annihilation of Iran. -- full annihilation. That is | :05:08. | :05:11. | |
the first time a military figure has used that kind of language. | :05:11. | :05:15. | |
That is the language of a nuclear attack. I find that very worrying | :05:15. | :05:20. | |
indeed. Jeremy is absolutely right. Of course parties will discuss | :05:20. | :05:23. | |
these things in private, and the Government will discuss these | :05:23. | :05:27. | |
things in private. That is apparently what happened at the | :05:27. | :05:31. | |
National Security Council last week. The surprising thing is the | :05:31. | :05:33. | |
decision to brief that the conclusions of the National | :05:33. | :05:36. | |
Security Council on the day that very important talks are taking | :05:36. | :05:40. | |
place in Baghdad. The question I would be interested in hearing from | :05:40. | :05:44. | |
Jeremy Browne on, is why the Government is interested in doing | :05:44. | :05:48. | |
that today? It seems to be a deliberate move and it has raised | :05:48. | :05:51. | |
the temperature and made it less likely for the talks to be | :05:51. | :05:55. | |
successful. How do you answer that? I am not aware of how that came to | :05:55. | :05:59. | |
be in the media and on the BBC this morning so I cannot discuss the | :05:59. | :06:02. | |
communications of it. We are looking at how we can make the | :06:02. | :06:06. | |
talks successful and that requires us to have a very tough and unified | :06:06. | :06:11. | |
diplomatic stance on EU sanctions on oil, for instance. I was in | :06:11. | :06:15. | |
Japan and South Korea last week, and they have difficulties with oil | :06:15. | :06:20. | |
imports. They need to import it to keep their economies going and they | :06:20. | :06:23. | |
import from Iran, so we are conversing around the globe about | :06:23. | :06:26. | |
how we can keep the club on the Iranians in that way but also | :06:26. | :06:31. | |
keeping the door open to political settlement. This is political | :06:32. | :06:36. | |
policy, and it is boiler plate stuff, to be honest. Let's cut to | :06:36. | :06:40. | |
the chase. If there is an attack on Iran, which is nothing to do with | :06:40. | :06:44. | |
us, but if there is and the Iranians move to close the Straits | :06:44. | :06:51. | |
of the news, where huge amount of the oil is taken out, do we join | :06:51. | :06:57. | |
with the Americans to keep it open? -- the Straits of Hormuz. I cannot | :06:57. | :07:01. | |
speculate on that. 20% of the world's oil goes through those | :07:01. | :07:09. | |
straits. The impact on the global economy would be a massive one, if | :07:10. | :07:14. | |
that happened but me idly speculating will not help. It does | :07:14. | :07:18. | |
not help, so let's move on. The David Cameron once said that | :07:18. | :07:22. | |
giving prisoners the vote made him feel physically ill and it has | :07:22. | :07:26. | |
never been a popular plan. In February, 2011, MPs rejected the | :07:26. | :07:32. | |
idea by 234 votes to 22. Yesterday the European Court of Human Rights | :07:32. | :07:36. | |
upheld a ruling that a blanket ban on inmate voting is unlawful. They | :07:36. | :07:40. | |
said the Government has six months to come up with changes. This does | :07:40. | :07:44. | |
not mean that all prisoners will be given the vote. The court has said | :07:44. | :07:47. | |
that each state has a wide discretion as to how it regulates | :07:47. | :07:51. | |
the ban. If the Government does not change the law, they could be | :07:51. | :07:57. | |
liable for millions of compensation payments. This paved the way for | :07:57. | :08:00. | |
further constitutional clash between Parliament and the European | :08:00. | :08:05. | |
Court, with MPs arguing that the UK Parliament should be sovereign. | :08:05. | :08:09. | |
Dominic Raab, welcome to the programme. What is your reaction to | :08:09. | :08:13. | |
that ruling being upheld? It is important to put it in some context. | :08:13. | :08:18. | |
In my view, this is an abuse of judicial power. There is no right | :08:18. | :08:20. | |
to prison are voting in the Convention and this is something | :08:20. | :08:25. | |
they have made up along the years. -- prison are voting. It is not the | :08:25. | :08:29. | |
first time we have seen this, with Abu Qatada, and a range of | :08:29. | :08:33. | |
decisions. The coalition is trying its best to negotiate reform with | :08:33. | :08:35. | |
the Strasbourg court, but in the Brighton declaration we have not | :08:35. | :08:40. | |
seen a mandate for that kind of change. What people will be asking | :08:40. | :08:43. | |
is what is the diplomatic safeguard of continuing abuses of this | :08:43. | :08:48. | |
judicial power? I think the answer lies with Parliament. I think | :08:48. | :08:51. | |
Parliament will oppose this measure again. Do you think that should | :08:51. | :08:55. | |
happen? Another vote to demonstrate that MPs feel as strongly as they | :08:55. | :08:59. | |
did when that vote was taken last year? The process for implementing | :08:59. | :09:02. | |
the judgment means that the technical requirement is to | :09:02. | :09:05. | |
introduce a bill. That will happen anyway. Parliament will have to | :09:05. | :09:10. | |
have a say on that bill. Within six months? The introduction has to be | :09:10. | :09:14. | |
within six months. My suggestion would be that there should be a | :09:14. | :09:17. | |
free vote on that and I think we should let Parliament decide. That | :09:17. | :09:22. | |
would allow the Government to go back to Strasbourg. They should say, | :09:22. | :09:25. | |
look, we introduced the bill but our democratically elected | :09:25. | :09:28. | |
representatives said no because this was not envisaged and the | :09:28. | :09:33. | |
public do not support it. What would happen? Would Strasbourg come | :09:33. | :09:39. | |
back and say that you did not vote? With an unmanaging this democracy | :09:39. | :09:43. | |
in that way? I think that is unlikely. I think they have backed | :09:43. | :09:47. | |
themselves into a constitutional corner on this. You don't think | :09:48. | :09:52. | |
that they can impose their will on us? Parliament has been told that | :09:52. | :09:57. | |
if Britain does not comply, then we could be open to compensation cases. | :09:57. | :10:02. | |
First of all, there is no enforceability in UK law of those | :10:02. | :10:06. | |
compensation awards. This is a question of political Jaws, in the | :10:06. | :10:11. | |
same way that we have the political choice to implement it. So David | :10:11. | :10:15. | |
Cameron should put it on this? democracy it is not just a | :10:15. | :10:20. | |
political show where we fudge the difference between the elected and | :10:20. | :10:25. | |
the legislature. Let the elected write the law of the land, which | :10:25. | :10:28. | |
would comply with the judgment and send a clear message to Strasbourg. | :10:28. | :10:33. | |
We need to draw a line in the sand on this. That is the way you | :10:33. | :10:37. | |
interpret it. That is a fact. but the Europeans are seeming to | :10:37. | :10:42. | |
expect changes to be made to that blanket ban. Is there any option | :10:42. | :10:45. | |
that you would support if for instance there was some sort of | :10:45. | :10:49. | |
limit put on prisoners who are convicted for two years, whereby | :10:49. | :10:54. | |
they could have the vote? First of all, there is no blanket ban. | :10:54. | :10:58. | |
Remand prisoners do not forfeit their votes. They view it as a | :10:58. | :11:04. | |
blanket ban. What is the threshold at which a forfeiture should | :11:04. | :11:08. | |
happen? There is no better threshold than a custodial one. The | :11:08. | :11:12. | |
court looks very seriously at the severity of the offence. I can't | :11:12. | :11:17. | |
think of a better one, so the short answer is no. What do so to that | :11:17. | :11:21. | |
scenario that he has set out, that there should be another | :11:21. | :11:25. | |
parliamentary vote? There should be a free vote and if it is voted | :11:25. | :11:29. | |
against yet again, then that is it, we should say fingers up to Europe? | :11:29. | :11:38. | |
There are two separate issues that people can float. -- conflict. | :11:38. | :11:46. | |
Should prisoners have the right to vote and should we refuse the | :11:46. | :11:49. | |
sovereignty of the European Parliament? But do you think the | :11:49. | :11:55. | |
Parliament should push this as far as it can? We have already voted | :11:55. | :11:59. | |
against Europeans imposing their will hear. We want other countries | :11:59. | :12:04. | |
to abide by European Court rulings. We voluntarily are part of that | :12:04. | :12:08. | |
arrangement, that organisation. I think that we are in an invidious | :12:08. | :12:12. | |
position if we choose to take the position of not abiding by those | :12:12. | :12:20. | |
Rawlings ourselves, but it is difficult. -- and those rulings. I | :12:20. | :12:23. | |
have no personal appetite for prisoners to vote at the moment, | :12:23. | :12:26. | |
but the Government might think it is wise to come up with a | :12:26. | :12:30. | |
compromise option along those lines. Do you think the Government should | :12:30. | :12:34. | |
comply? No. I think the court has crossed the line with this one and | :12:35. | :12:38. | |
we should take a stand. It is not acceptable to intrude on domestic | :12:38. | :12:48. | |
policy. I always agree with the anti-European rhetoric, -- I do not | :12:48. | :12:52. | |
always agree. And I do not want this to be seen in that way. I | :12:52. | :12:54. | |
think there is an important issue of principle here and I would not | :12:54. | :12:59. | |
want to play party politics. Together we should send a clear | :12:59. | :13:03. | |
message back to Strasbourg. support the convention. I want us | :13:03. | :13:06. | |
to stay with the convention. But unless we have some democratic so I | :13:06. | :13:11. | |
got on the abuse of judicial power, the voices of those calling on us | :13:11. | :13:16. | |
to withdraw... It is a question of sovereignty. I support the Human | :13:17. | :13:21. | |
Rights Act, and I think it does not help always will the Court to be | :13:21. | :13:29. | |
undermined. It is doing itself no favours with this ruling. | :13:29. | :13:32. | |
Britain is found to be in breach of human rights, surely we have to | :13:32. | :13:37. | |
abide by that ruling. I don't think so. It is the clear will of the | :13:37. | :13:43. | |
British Parliament. There is no fundamental right enshrined in that. | :13:43. | :13:48. | |
The must be a point in which the Strasbourg court is so outside its | :13:48. | :13:52. | |
mandate that there must be a democratic safeguard. It is built | :13:52. | :13:55. | |
into the convention because their rulings are not directly forcible | :13:55. | :14:00. | |
in UK law and we should rely on that. Blanket ban? If the British | :14:00. | :14:05. | |
Parliament voted to say that all prisoners who get more than a six- | :14:05. | :14:10. | |
month sentence will lose the right to vote, and if you get six months, | :14:11. | :14:14. | |
only very few of them will be in prison when there is a general | :14:14. | :14:18. | |
election, we would have complied with the ruling. We will be back | :14:18. | :14:22. | |
within two years with them saying that is not good enough. All right, | :14:22. | :14:26. | |
they have given a very wide discretion. The Italian ruling said | :14:26. | :14:29. | |
that it was fine. With the greatest respect, the Strasbourg court | :14:29. | :14:35. | |
behave like a drunk that cannot walk in a straight line. Look at | :14:35. | :14:40. | |
other judgments. It changes its mind each time, two steps forward | :14:40. | :14:46. | |
and one back. The goalposts keep shifting and this is not going to | :14:46. | :14:51. | |
solve that problem. That is a case for not being part of it altogether. | :14:51. | :14:58. | |
But how do they regulate the ban? Just before they tell us we have to | :14:58. | :15:02. | |
give prisoners the right to vote. Would that not be good enough, six | :15:02. | :15:07. | |
months? Then you comply and only those convicted for short terms are | :15:07. | :15:11. | |
given the vote. That is a potential outcome that is no doubt being | :15:11. | :15:21. | |
:15:21. | :15:24. | ||
You won't tell us if you are going to... It was Lib Dem policy, no? | :15:25. | :15:28. | |
You won't tell fuss you are going to back prisoners' votes. It won't | :15:28. | :15:31. | |
solve the problem. Tphouf sense from Strasbourg that they would | :15:31. | :15:35. | |
stop there. That's the key point. We would end up kicking the can | :15:35. | :15:39. | |
down the road again. Also, can I just name the other countries where | :15:39. | :15:48. | |
prisoners can't vote. Armenia, Bulgaria, Estonia, Slovakia... | :15:48. | :15:52. | |
What's the point there? Are you happy? You lose rights to | :15:52. | :15:58. | |
participate in society. Any non- European examples like America, | :15:58. | :16:01. | |
Australia. What about the Commonwealth? We have just run out | :16:01. | :16:06. | |
of time! I was quite enjoying that. European leaders gather tonight in | :16:06. | :16:10. | |
Brussels for an informal dinner, I am sthaour will be lavish, to | :16:10. | :16:13. | |
discuss thousand promote economic growth across not just the eurozone, | :16:13. | :16:17. | |
but the whole of the European Union. Of course, tonight's soiree will be | :16:17. | :16:23. | |
a far cry from the stringent, dare I say, dour formalities of the G8 | :16:23. | :16:29. | |
at Camp David at the weekend. Here they are taking a solemn, | :16:29. | :16:32. | |
formal stroll in the woods in Maryland. | :16:32. | :16:36. | |
Sitting around at Camp David formally sorting out the euro. | :16:36. | :16:41. | |
Obviously, not at all enjoying the fresh air as they buckle down. | :16:41. | :16:45. | |
And formally, sombre, they soberly watched the football. That's David | :16:46. | :16:49. | |
Cameron being told he has won a Daily Politics mug. He was very | :16:49. | :16:54. | |
happy. Then he was told it's a game with a | :16:54. | :17:00. | |
round ball. And he said really, I don't remember that at Eton? Only | :17:00. | :17:03. | |
one can imagine the scenes tonight in Brussels at what's meant to be | :17:03. | :17:06. | |
an informal event. The former ambassador to the US, Christopher | :17:06. | :17:10. | |
Meyer, is here to discuss it. Let me surprise our viewers, | :17:10. | :17:13. | |
nothing will be decided at this dinner tonight. I think nothing | :17:13. | :17:18. | |
will be decided at this dinner tonight. Let's move on! Time for | :17:18. | :17:24. | |
Prime Minister's questions! There is a lesson here, Merkel and hol | :17:25. | :17:29. | |
Londone -- Hollande have been close to each other the last few days, at | :17:29. | :17:32. | |
the summit in Chicago, at the G8, there is a possibility of a dirty | :17:32. | :17:35. | |
deal between them, which they will then announce the surprise of | :17:35. | :17:38. | |
everybody around the table tonight. I think it's unlikely, but it's a | :17:39. | :17:44. | |
possibility. What will the elements of that dirty deal be? Even my | :17:44. | :17:48. | |
cryst alball is getting cloudy, some kind of understanding about | :17:48. | :17:53. | |
what is meant by growth, and by strengthening the firewall between | :17:53. | :18:00. | |
Greece and the rest of the... done, off to the races? I don't | :18:00. | :18:03. | |
think. Even if they have come up with a form of words, if you can't | :18:03. | :18:06. | |
act together at least you can write words together. If they come up | :18:06. | :18:10. | |
with a form of words, it will be full of fudge anyway and we will go | :18:10. | :18:14. | |
on to the next stage of the crisis, which is going to get hotter before | :18:14. | :18:20. | |
June 17th and the Greek elections. They'll have a nice dinner tonight. | :18:20. | :18:23. | |
And they'll say we can't decide anything until the proper summit, | :18:23. | :18:28. | |
which is next month. Another meeting next month. If the number | :18:28. | :18:31. | |
of meetings determine the success, the eurozone would be the most | :18:31. | :18:35. | |
successful economy in the world, wouldn't it? I take your point. | :18:35. | :18:43. | |
There is a bit of an institutional inertia and we are reaching... | :18:43. | :18:48. | |
not commit to anything on the Daily Politics this morning! Have Have hu | :18:48. | :18:54. | |
a little injection! It what happens if you have been in the tpoufs so | :18:54. | :19:02. | |
long -- Foreign Office for so long! There is a fork in the road moment | :19:02. | :19:08. | |
where the country of the eurozone are going to have to decide to get | :19:08. | :19:11. | |
closer together or envisage the breakup and that's a big moment. | :19:11. | :19:15. | |
It's such a big decision that it's being deferred because it's easier | :19:15. | :19:21. | |
to discuss than to resolve it. is right in Labour's view, or even | :19:21. | :19:25. | |
in your personal view of Labour policy, on the issuing of euro | :19:25. | :19:33. | |
bonds which would be bonds, credits, loans issued with the whole of the | :19:33. | :19:36. | |
eurozone on it, rather than just individual countries? That's for | :19:36. | :19:45. | |
them, for the eurozone to decide. I think... This may surprise you, but | :19:45. | :19:48. | |
you have obviously had the same injection. I understand, the clue | :19:48. | :19:54. | |
is in the name eurozone bonds. is right between who? I wanted your | :19:55. | :20:01. | |
view on the matter. We are clearly on the side of growth. We have | :20:01. | :20:05. | |
argued consistently since this began that the Cameron-Osbourne | :20:05. | :20:10. | |
policy - let me answer the question. Clearly has run its course. Is that | :20:10. | :20:16. | |
yes or no? I think they've got to be considered. The danger is at the | :20:16. | :20:18. | |
moment we are having a situation where individual countries are | :20:19. | :20:23. | |
being picked off. The eurobond I think is an idea that needs now to | :20:23. | :20:29. | |
come forward and they can't keep prevaricating. That's what you are | :20:29. | :20:33. | |
doing, you won't tell me if you are for or against them. It's not for | :20:33. | :20:37. | |
me to say to the eurozone whether they should go this way. Clearly | :20:37. | :20:40. | |
they need to take decisive action to get get growth going. Without | :20:40. | :20:44. | |
having a view, let me tell you what is going to happen, is the Germans | :20:44. | :20:49. | |
will say no, because if you neutralise the issuing of credit | :20:49. | :20:54. | |
across the eurozone, into eurozone bonds the price of German bonds | :20:54. | :20:58. | |
would have to rise and they would become liable for the other euro | :20:58. | :21:03. | |
bonds issued by Italy, Greece, Spain, Portugal and Ireland. In a | :21:03. | :21:07. | |
sense, ambassador, it isn't going to happen. It may happen. But I | :21:07. | :21:12. | |
think the pips are going to have to squeak even tighter than they are | :21:12. | :21:15. | |
already. It's unlikely to be tomorrow - tonight t could be | :21:15. | :21:19. | |
tonight, but I very much doubt it. It's only when Athens is in flames | :21:20. | :21:23. | |
that maybe the power of the argument to neutralisation will | :21:23. | :21:31. | |
prevail. What is your view? Into it may --. It may happen the bottom | :21:31. | :21:35. | |
line commit splt to keep the eurozone together and it's hard to | :21:35. | :21:39. | |
see how you can cope it together without the sharing of risk. | :21:39. | :21:42. | |
word from Berlin is if Greece has to go, it has to go. They're bound | :21:42. | :21:46. | |
to say that up to the very last moment when they may change their | :21:46. | :21:51. | |
mind. As I said, it could well be before June 17th. Do you follow | :21:51. | :21:55. | |
German politics? A bit. How much detail are you going to ask me?! | :21:55. | :22:00. | |
are not going to test you. Mrs Merkel has just lost in the biggest | :22:00. | :22:04. | |
region. She faces an election in 2013. No German leader is going to | :22:04. | :22:11. | |
go to the people and say by the way, you are securing Greek, Italian, | :22:11. | :22:14. | |
Spanish debt and by the way, you will be paying more for your own | :22:14. | :22:21. | |
debt. It's an extremely hard sell. It's the consequence of being in a | :22:21. | :22:26. | |
single currency. They've only the small countries with them. They've | :22:26. | :22:31. | |
the Netherlands and some Scandinavian countries. Behind | :22:31. | :22:35. | |
Francois Hollande you have Spain, Italy, really two big kind of camps | :22:35. | :22:39. | |
doving here on the Dishdasha developing on the -- camps | :22:39. | :22:42. | |
developing on the issue. It's become a cheap line in the press | :22:42. | :22:47. | |
that the Germans are isolated. Mrs Merkel isolated for the first time, | :22:47. | :22:53. | |
normally the French and Germans go to these things togts, -- together. | :22:53. | :22:57. | |
How seriously should we take that and can't the Germans be afford to | :22:57. | :23:01. | |
be isolated if they want to be? Well, it is actually it's an | :23:01. | :23:06. | |
historic development, for the first time we see the Germans either | :23:06. | :23:09. | |
completely isolated as they were at the G8, apparently or almost inside | :23:09. | :23:18. | |
the EU EU EU-eurozone. They can afford, if up to the point the | :23:18. | :23:21. | |
argument prevails because the Germans won't do what is necessary | :23:21. | :23:25. | |
the whole ediface will come crashing down. You are right, it's | :23:25. | :23:31. | |
a hard sell in an election year in 2013 but coy see a situation which | :23:31. | :23:34. | |
Merkel could go to those elections and say Germany has achieved it's | :23:34. | :23:40. | |
destiny, we have saved Europe. She could turn the argument. Could I | :23:40. | :23:45. | |
point out that this whole euro crisis started because all these | :23:45. | :23:49. | |
club Med countries were able to borrow unlimited amounts of money | :23:49. | :23:53. | |
at record low interest rates because the bond markets treated | :23:53. | :23:58. | |
all the individual members of the eurozone as if they were equally | :23:58. | :24:04. | |
safe. If you move to euro bonds where they are all guaranteed by | :24:04. | :24:10. | |
the Germans, what will stop them borrowing like mad? I mean, at the | :24:10. | :24:15. | |
moment the issue is... That's what Germans are worried about. When you | :24:15. | :24:18. | |
asked would me sign up and that's the issue, what are conditions | :24:18. | :24:24. | |
attached to public spending and the... The German attachment to | :24:24. | :24:26. | |
keeping this together is a big political factor in Germany, as | :24:26. | :24:32. | |
well. How long before Hollande's honeymoon ends and by autumn he is | :24:32. | :24:35. | |
forced to introduce his own austerity programme? Are you asking | :24:35. | :24:42. | |
me? Yes, I am looking at you! were a French President I wouldn't | :24:42. | :24:47. | |
start down that path. May have said it in the campaign. I may be saying | :24:47. | :24:50. | |
it now but what I actually do will be carefully calibrated because | :24:50. | :24:58. | |
after all he worked for M erbgs itterand. We will have to leave it | :24:58. | :25:06. | |
there. We have obviously solved everything. We know our leaders are | :25:06. | :25:10. | |
a smart lot, after that I am not sure, sartorially, as well as | :25:10. | :25:13. | |
intellectually but I can't help thinking they pushed the boat out | :25:13. | :25:17. | |
at the G8 and we like to reward effort. We have decided to give a | :25:17. | :25:22. | |
Daily Politics mug to the best turned out global leader. Is it our | :25:22. | :25:26. | |
own David Cameron with his chillaxed grey number? | :25:26. | :25:31. | |
Could it be the European Council President, lovingly known as little | :25:31. | :25:36. | |
Herman Van Rompuy on this programme, with his splendid salmon pink V- | :25:37. | :25:46. | |
:25:47. | :25:49. | ||
neck or possibly the Japanese premiere, Yoshihiko Noda, with his | :25:49. | :25:53. | |
man-about-town top? Our mug goes to Herman Van Rompuy. No longer the | :25:53. | :25:59. | |
so-called low grade bank clerk look, take that, Nigel Farage! You don't | :25:59. | :26:05. | |
have to spend time and money on knitwear and treufrps to Camp David | :26:05. | :26:11. | |
-- treufrps to Camp David to win a mug. You can do it right here. | :26:11. | :26:21. | |
:26:21. | :26:22. | ||
Let's see if you can remember when # The time has come to push the | :26:22. | :26:32. | |
:26:32. | :26:41. | ||
I know that standards have slipped over the last few years in | :26:41. | :26:46. | |
Washington, but for a lawyer you are remarkably cavalier with any | :26:46. | :26:56. | |
:26:56. | :27:28. | ||
To be in with a chance of winning that Daily Politics mug you don't | :27:28. | :27:32. | |
have to get a salmon pink sweater, send your answer to our special | :27:32. | :27:36. | |
quiz e-mail address. You can see the full terms and | :27:36. | :27:43. | |
conditions on our website. Right, it's coming up to midday | :27:43. | :27:48. | |
here. Summer has arrived in London. I hope it's where you are, too. | :27:48. | :27:54. | |
Let's look at Big Ben. There is a glorious May Day here, it can only | :27:54. | :27:57. | |
mean one thing, Prime Minister's questions on the way and Nick | :27:57. | :28:01. | |
Robinson is here. The last questions for three weeks. You have | :28:01. | :28:05. | |
been talking about the National Security Council in London, talking | :28:05. | :28:09. | |
about Iran and consequences if it's attacked. I don't know if you saw, | :28:09. | :28:15. | |
but we heard from Jeremy Brown confirming what you are telling me | :28:15. | :28:19. | |
that Lib Dems have been meeting to decide a party line. This is a | :28:19. | :28:21. | |
potential coalition breaker. Remember, of course most people | :28:21. | :28:24. | |
will care much more about other things, the potential loss... | :28:24. | :28:29. | |
it happens. A war in the Middle East, oil that could go up to $200 | :28:29. | :28:33. | |
a barrel. It's worth spelling out some of those, because when we talk | :28:33. | :28:36. | |
about this story it would wipe any other story we are talking of, | :28:36. | :28:39. | |
completely out of our memories, frankly, if this were to happen. | :28:39. | :28:42. | |
But, in political terms it's a potential coalition breaker. The | :28:42. | :28:46. | |
Liberal Democrats, we know, opposed the war in Iraq. In large part | :28:46. | :28:49. | |
because they believed it was illegal under international law. If | :28:49. | :28:54. | |
Britain were asked by the Americans and Israelis to play some role, | :28:54. | :29:00. | |
lend a base, use the Royal Navy to police where so much of the oil | :29:01. | :29:04. | |
travels through, give diplomatic support. First question, legal or | :29:04. | :29:08. | |
illegal? Well, it's a question that's being discussed now by | :29:08. | :29:11. | |
Ministers, by Government law officers, in part, because they're | :29:11. | :29:15. | |
trying to prepare the ground for something that may come from | :29:15. | :29:21. | |
outside and could do the coalition irreparable harm. Having tried and | :29:21. | :29:23. | |
failed to get answers to these questions from our guests, I will | :29:23. | :29:27. | |
come to what is obviously a much bigger question, much, much bigger | :29:27. | :29:35. | |
than Iran, and it's this - is Vince Cable a socialist? You weren't | :29:35. | :29:41. | |
expecting that! I don't think he is. He is a social Democrat. Tphefs the | :29:41. | :29:44. | |
party before he joined the Liberal Democrats. Before he was that the | :29:44. | :29:48. | |
Labour Party. He is a socialist? The Labour Party have some | :29:48. | :29:56. | |
socialists in. If he is not a socialist, could you name a problem | :29:56. | :30:00. | |
Vince Cable has ever confronted with which a solution was more | :30:00. | :30:04. | |
Government money or just more Government? I think - I have worked | :30:04. | :30:08. | |
a lot with Vince and think a lot of the media analysis of Vince's | :30:08. | :30:12. | |
thinking is far too simplistic just to say he is left-wing. He is in | :30:12. | :30:18. | |
favour of open markets, free trade, kpre to say to say -- competition. | :30:18. | :30:22. | |
He is an interesting figure in terms of his sort of political and | :30:22. | :30:27. | |
economic views. But they're too simply caricatured as left-wing. | :30:27. | :30:31. | |
What's the buzz? The buzz is that this is about a debate at the heart | :30:31. | :30:34. | |
of the coalition about whether to deregulate. I happen to think | :30:35. | :30:37. | |
that's not true. I don't think there is a central argument between | :30:37. | :30:40. | |
the Chancellor and the Prime Minister and the Business Secretary. | :30:40. | :30:45. | |
I actually think, and perhaps far more revealingly, this is what in | :30:45. | :30:49. | |
military terms you call a blue on blue, parts of the Tory right... | :30:50. | :30:55. | |
This is the Beecroft report, argument around freeing up deraeg | :30:55. | :31:00. | |
lating -- deregulating the labour market, making it easier to hire | :31:00. | :31:10. | |
:31:10. | :31:11. | ||
and fire. A story that has run in The Telegraph. We need to go | :31:11. | :31:20. | |
Thank you, Mr Speaker. I had meetings with ministerial | :31:20. | :31:24. | |
colleagues and others and I will have further such meetings later | :31:24. | :31:29. | |
today. People in Staffordshire recognise that the Government needs | :31:29. | :31:34. | |
to take difficult decisions to deal with the deficit, but does the | :31:34. | :31:36. | |
Prime Minister a shiver about what would have happened if he did not | :31:36. | :31:45. | |
have a credible fiscal package? think it is worth while listening | :31:45. | :31:49. | |
to what the managing director of the IMF said yesterday. She said | :31:49. | :31:55. | |
this. When I think back myself to May, 2010, when the UK deficit was | :31:55. | :32:01. | |
at 11%, and I try to imagine what the situation would be like today | :32:01. | :32:05. | |
if no such fiscal consolidation programme had been decided, I | :32:05. | :32:09. | |
shiver. That is what she said. We should remember who is responsible | :32:10. | :32:17. | |
for leading that situation. Dublin the national debt, a record deficit, | :32:17. | :32:22. | |
a catastrophic inheritance, for which we have not had an apology. - | :32:22. | :32:32. | |
:32:32. | :32:34. | ||
- doubled national debt. Mr Speaker, Mr Speaker, Adrian Beecroft, the | :32:34. | :32:39. | |
Prime Minister's adviser, says the law should be changed to allow | :32:39. | :32:43. | |
employers to fire people at will. The Business Secretary says it is | :32:43. | :32:47. | |
the last thing Government should do. Who does the Prime Minister agree | :32:47. | :32:52. | |
with? We need to make it easier for businesses to grow, for businesses | :32:52. | :32:58. | |
to take people on, for businesses to expand. The Beecroft Report, | :32:58. | :33:01. | |
which I Commission, had a number of excellent ideas that we are taking | :33:01. | :33:05. | |
forward. We are doubling the qualifying period for unfair | :33:05. | :33:09. | |
dismissal. We are accepting businesses with less than 10 people | :33:09. | :33:16. | |
from EU regulations. We are exempt in them from health and safety. We | :33:16. | :33:19. | |
are defaulting on no fault dismissal but only on a micro | :33:19. | :33:24. | |
businesses. It was a good report and it is right that week take for | :33:24. | :33:29. | |
of its best measures. The Prime Minister did not answer the | :33:29. | :33:34. | |
question. -- it is right that we take forward its best measures. | :33:34. | :33:39. | |
Adrian Beecroft made a proposal that employers should fire their | :33:39. | :33:46. | |
employees at will. The people behind him think that the B -- | :33:46. | :33:50. | |
Beecroft Report is the bee's knees. The people over there think it is | :33:50. | :33:55. | |
bonkers. The Business Secretary has been going round saying it. We just | :33:55. | :33:58. | |
want to know where the Prime Minister stands and who he agrees | :33:58. | :34:04. | |
with. It is rather sad that he did not listen to my answer. Yes, we | :34:04. | :34:09. | |
have evidence on no fault dismissal for micro businesses. We are not | :34:09. | :34:11. | |
proceeding with it for other businesses and that is the position. | :34:11. | :34:17. | |
I know he worries about being fired at will for being incompetent. | :34:17. | :34:23. | |
wonder how long it took him to think that one up! Mr Speaker, the | :34:23. | :34:27. | |
Prime Minister says that he is consulting on the proposal. This is | :34:27. | :34:32. | |
what the author of the proposal, Adrian Beecroft, said. Some people | :34:32. | :34:36. | |
will be dismissed simply because their employer does not like them. | :34:36. | :34:43. | |
While this is that, I believe it is a price worth paying. -- this is | :34:44. | :34:47. | |
sad. That is what they used to say about unemployment. Is he really | :34:48. | :34:52. | |
telling us that with the record numbers out of work that sacking | :34:52. | :34:59. | |
people for no good reason is a price worth paying? He might | :34:59. | :35:02. | |
welcome that inflation and unemployment is falling and | :35:02. | :35:11. | |
discover -- this Government has cut the deficit by 25%. We are cutting | :35:11. | :35:16. | |
regulation by �3 billion. We are scrapping 1500 regulations. We are | :35:16. | :35:21. | |
looking at introducing fees for employment tribunals. We aren't | :35:21. | :35:26. | |
taking all of these steps, which led to the greatest number of small | :35:26. | :35:31. | |
business start-ups in the country last year. -- we are taking all of | :35:31. | :35:34. | |
these steps. He cannot agree to this because he is in the pocket of | :35:34. | :35:39. | |
the trade unions. In case he is not noticing this, his Business | :35:39. | :35:44. | |
Secretary does not support the proposals. What double-standards. | :35:44. | :35:50. | |
Oh, yes. When it comes to ordinary workers who wants to make it easier | :35:50. | :35:54. | |
for employers to sack them. When it comes to Andy Coulson and the | :35:54. | :36:00. | |
culture secretary, it is all about second chances. Can the Prime | :36:00. | :36:03. | |
Minister tell us what impression he thinks it gives about his | :36:03. | :36:08. | |
Government that the commission's advice from a multi-millionaire who | :36:08. | :36:12. | |
recommends making it easier to sack people on low pay, at the same time | :36:12. | :36:16. | |
as giving people like him tens of thousands of pounds in a | :36:16. | :36:21. | |
millionaire's tax cut? I tell you what we do on this side of the | :36:21. | :36:25. | |
House. We commission a report, except the bit we agree with a | :36:25. | :36:29. | |
project the bits that we do not. What he does is take instructions | :36:29. | :36:33. | |
from his trade union paymasters and he cannot accept any changes. He | :36:33. | :36:37. | |
asks what we are doing for the poorest people in our country. It | :36:37. | :36:40. | |
is this Government taking 2 million people out of income tax and | :36:41. | :36:45. | |
increasing tax credits for the poorest. We have more people in | :36:45. | :36:49. | |
work with 600,000 private sector jobs and we have frozen council tax. | :36:49. | :36:54. | |
His record was completely the opposite. This is not about the | :36:54. | :37:00. | |
trade unions. It is about millions of people... It is about millions | :37:00. | :37:06. | |
of people up and down this country, in fear of their jobs. The only | :37:06. | :37:09. | |
answer this Prime Minister has is to make it easier to sack them. | :37:10. | :37:15. | |
This proposal is a symbol of the Government's failure on growth. We | :37:15. | :37:18. | |
are in a double-dip recession. Unemployment is high, businesses | :37:18. | :37:24. | |
are going bust, bad retail figures today. Doesn't the Prime Minister | :37:24. | :37:29. | |
understand how out of touch he sounds to families when he said | :37:30. | :37:33. | |
last week that things are moving in the right direction? I have to tell | :37:33. | :37:37. | |
him that this is about the trade unions and I will tell you why. He | :37:37. | :37:42. | |
is getting �900,000 from Unite and they are threatening a bus strike | :37:42. | :37:48. | |
in the Olympics. What have we heard from him? Silence. He is getting | :37:48. | :37:51. | |
�400,000 from the GMB union, holding a baggage handlers strike | :37:51. | :37:55. | |
over the Diamond Jubilee union. Absolute silence from him. People | :37:55. | :38:02. | |
need to know that we have two parties on this side of the House | :38:02. | :38:07. | |
acting in their national interest and that side of the House acting | :38:07. | :38:11. | |
in the trade union interest. Let's talk about donations. On March 21st, | :38:11. | :38:15. | |
the Chancellor cut the top rate of income tax and then the money comes | :38:15. | :38:19. | |
flooding in from the Tory millionaire donors. It tells you | :38:19. | :38:23. | |
all you need to know about this Government. They stand up for the | :38:23. | :38:26. | |
wrong people. He may have changed the image of the Tory party but the | :38:26. | :38:31. | |
reality has not changed. Tax cuts for millionaires, making it easier | :38:31. | :38:38. | |
to sack people. The nasty party is back. It is this Government that | :38:38. | :38:43. | |
has cut corporation tax, that set up the enterprise zones, that his | :38:43. | :38:46. | |
reform under planning law, that has boosted the apprenticeships, that | :38:46. | :38:53. | |
has scrapped the jobs tax. That cut taxes for 24 million people. It is | :38:53. | :38:57. | |
only Labour, only Labour, who think the answer is more borrowing, more | :38:57. | :39:01. | |
spending, more debt. Exactly the problems that got us into this mess | :39:01. | :39:10. | |
in the first place. We will have more, but it will be from Mr David | :39:10. | :39:19. | |
Mowat. Thank you, Mr Speaker. In 1993, the IRA bombed Warrington, | :39:19. | :39:23. | |
killing two small boys and injuring 50 others. Last week a memorial | :39:23. | :39:27. | |
plaque with the scrap value of �40 was stolen. The Government has | :39:27. | :39:32. | |
already legislated to prevent the sale of scrap-metal for cash. Would | :39:32. | :39:37. | |
the Prime Minister consider further legislation that the theft of | :39:37. | :39:42. | |
memorials such as this is an aggravating factor? You make an | :39:42. | :39:46. | |
important point. The whole country was shot by the theft of that the | :39:46. | :39:49. | |
moral and everybody remembers the Warrington bombing and the people | :39:49. | :39:56. | |
that died. -- that memorial. We have legislated and we are doing | :39:56. | :39:59. | |
everything we can to sort out the problems of the scrap-metal trade. | :39:59. | :40:04. | |
I will look at the suggestion of an aggravated offence. Any Court is | :40:04. | :40:12. | |
able to hand out the exemplary sentences because the public is | :40:12. | :40:19. | |
appalled by what has happened. There are two ways of measuring | :40:19. | :40:23. | |
youth unemployment. The first definition includes both full and | :40:23. | :40:27. | |
part-time students, which is just over 1 million. The second, the | :40:27. | :40:32. | |
claimant count, stands at 466,000. Youth unemployment is clearly too | :40:32. | :40:36. | |
high on either measure, but I know it rose by 40% under the previous | :40:36. | :40:41. | |
Government. Recently it fell by 17,000 in the last quarter. If you | :40:41. | :40:44. | |
look at the claimant count and include people on out of work | :40:44. | :40:46. | |
schemes, then a number of unemployed young people has fallen | :40:46. | :40:53. | |
since the election. The number of young people unemployed, and | :40:53. | :40:57. | |
employed, and with less opportunities in my constituency | :40:57. | :41:05. | |
greatly increased in the last year. -- under employed. We are setting | :41:05. | :41:08. | |
up attacks forced to deal with this increasing scourge. Will the Prime | :41:08. | :41:12. | |
Minister commit the active participation of every Government | :41:12. | :41:16. | |
department in our task force's work? I will certainly do that | :41:16. | :41:19. | |
because there is vital work to be done to help unemployed young | :41:19. | :41:22. | |
people. What we are finding with all of the schemes that we have, | :41:22. | :41:26. | |
the work programme and the youth contract, that the most useful | :41:26. | :41:28. | |
thing will be the work experience scheme because it gives young | :41:28. | :41:33. | |
people a real leg-up, an experience of the workplace, and removes some | :41:33. | :41:36. | |
of the disadvantages they face against older workers. We are | :41:36. | :41:40. | |
finding that it has a better record than other schemes and I hope that | :41:40. | :41:43. | |
he will be able to pioneer that in his constituency with the help of | :41:43. | :41:50. | |
all the agencies, as he says. my right honourable friend the | :41:50. | :41:55. | |
figures released last week showing that since May, 2010, at the number | :41:55. | :41:58. | |
of people waiting for an operation on the National Health Service has | :41:58. | :42:05. | |
fallen by over 50,000? Does this not demonstrate that our commitment | :42:05. | :42:09. | |
to increasing health funding and our health reforms are beginning to | :42:09. | :42:14. | |
bear fruit? I am grateful to my honourable friend for that question. | :42:14. | :42:18. | |
We did make an important, difficult decision, that while other budgets | :42:18. | :42:22. | |
were being cut, we would protect the NHS budget. That was not | :42:22. | :42:26. | |
supported by the party opposite. The fact is that we now have the | :42:26. | :42:31. | |
best ever performance for patients waiting after 18 weeks. The numbers | :42:31. | :42:36. | |
waiting 26 weeks and 52 weeks have also reached record lows. If we | :42:36. | :42:39. | |
look at average waiting times for in-patient and out-patient, they | :42:39. | :42:43. | |
are lower than they were in 2010. The party opposite asked whether | :42:43. | :42:47. | |
the test should be the number of people waiting over 18 weeks, and | :42:47. | :42:53. | |
if that was the test, we passed with flying colours. Just over a | :42:53. | :42:57. | |
year ago, the Prime Minister launched his flagship export | :42:57. | :43:01. | |
Enterprise's finance guarantee scheme. We now learn that only five | :43:01. | :43:05. | |
companies have benefited from that scheme. Hard-working businesses in | :43:05. | :43:10. | |
Birmingham who would like to participate are quite keen to know | :43:10. | :43:14. | |
who the five lucky companies are and why the scheme has been such a | :43:14. | :43:19. | |
dismal failure? I will certainly right to the honourable lady | :43:19. | :43:22. | |
because the truth is that export scheme has been rolled into the | :43:22. | :43:27. | |
export guarantee scheme more generally, and the amount of export | :43:27. | :43:30. | |
support is massively up on their last election in terms of billions | :43:30. | :43:36. | |
of extra money that is being spent. -- the last election. Exports | :43:36. | :43:46. | |
:43:46. | :43:46. | ||
compared with 20 tent were up 12% last year as well. -- 2010. Will | :43:46. | :43:52. | |
you join me in congratulating the parent partnership conference where | :43:52. | :43:56. | |
27 local authorities were represented? If we are serious | :43:56. | :43:59. | |
about strengthening our society, then providing psychotherapeutic | :43:59. | :44:05. | |
support for families that are struggling to bond with their new | :44:05. | :44:10. | |
babies is absolutely key. Does he agree? I know the right honourable | :44:10. | :44:14. | |
lady speaks with considerable experience, having set up an | :44:14. | :44:17. | |
agreement in Oxfordshire that is having a major impact. All the | :44:17. | :44:21. | |
studies show that real disadvantage for children kicks in right from | :44:21. | :44:24. | |
the moment they are born, if they do not get the love, support and | :44:24. | :44:29. | |
help that they need. That is why the projects that she is talking | :44:29. | :44:34. | |
about and expansion of the Health visitors' scheme, 4200 extra health | :44:34. | :44:38. | |
visitors, can make a real difference. And I also point out of | :44:38. | :44:42. | |
the measures we took last week, to make sure parents get proper | :44:42. | :44:45. | |
contact and information from the midwife before and after the child | :44:45. | :44:48. | |
is born, so we do everything to remove the disadvantage in the | :44:48. | :44:53. | |
early months and years. Will the Prime Minister give an undertaking | :44:53. | :44:56. | |
that he will not succumb to the tick tack from the European Court | :44:56. | :45:02. | |
of Human Rights in relation to prisoners voting? And will he stand | :45:02. | :45:05. | |
up for the resolution that was passed in his House by an | :45:05. | :45:09. | |
overwhelming majority? When you stand up for the sovereignty of his | :45:09. | :45:14. | |
House and the British people? -- will he stand up? The short answer | :45:14. | :45:19. | |
is yes. When you go to prison, you lose certain votes, including the | :45:19. | :45:22. | |
right to vote. Crucially this should be a matter for Parliament | :45:22. | :45:26. | |
to decide and not a foreign court. Parliament has made his decision | :45:26. | :45:36. | |
:45:36. | :45:37. | ||
Today in my constituency a new facility for engineering, | :45:37. | :45:40. | |
manufacturing and export of electronics in which Stafford is a | :45:40. | :45:43. | |
world leader. Following the news of the first trade surplus in motor | :45:43. | :45:47. | |
vehicles for more than 30 years, what measures does my right | :45:47. | :45:51. | |
honourable friend consider to be essential to continue and increase | :45:51. | :45:56. | |
investment in manufacturing? Well, I very much remember visiting | :45:56. | :46:00. | |
there when I contested his constituency, rather unsuccessfully | :46:00. | :46:05. | |
in 1997. What is essential for manufacturing, engineering and | :46:05. | :46:07. | |
technology-based businesses like that is the support that we are | :46:07. | :46:12. | |
giving to apprenticeships where we achieved over 450,000 | :46:12. | :46:15. | |
apprenticeship starts last year. Also, the lower rate of corporation | :46:15. | :46:18. | |
tax and the links between our universities and these new centres | :46:18. | :46:23. | |
to make sure technology goes into our businesses and makes them world | :46:23. | :46:29. | |
beating. If you look at our exports, not just overall up 12% last year, | :46:29. | :46:35. | |
tpwou India, China, they're up 20, 30, 40%. | :46:35. | :46:38. | |
Mr Speaker, the Prime Minister pledged to give England's great | :46:38. | :46:44. | |
cities a seat at the heart of Government. Yesterday, Labour took | :46:44. | :46:48. | |
control of Birmingham City Council. The first thing the new council did | :46:48. | :46:52. | |
was to agree to ask the Prime Minister to receive a delegation | :46:52. | :46:58. | |
from the council and Birmingham's MPs on a fair deal for Birmingham. | :46:58. | :47:01. | |
Will the Prime Minister make good his pledge and agree to meet with | :47:01. | :47:05. | |
that delegation? Of course I am happy to meet with | :47:05. | :47:08. | |
leaders of Birmingham City Council as I meet with leaders of councils | :47:08. | :47:12. | |
up and down the country. I think what is important is focusing on | :47:12. | :47:16. | |
what needs to be done in Birmingham to drive economic growth and to | :47:16. | :47:20. | |
make sure that you provide good services, but I very much hope the | :47:20. | :47:23. | |
new council will match the record of the old council in providing | :47:23. | :47:33. | |
:47:33. | :47:33. | ||
value for money. In Blackpool we are awaiting the | :47:33. | :47:39. | |
sentencing of two parents who have pleaded guilty this week to keeping | :47:39. | :47:43. | |
their ten-year-old son in circumstances in a coal bunker. At | :47:43. | :47:46. | |
the same time, the charity Action for Children has highlighted the | :47:46. | :47:55. | |
fact that the law on child neglect dates from 1933. The demands of | :47:55. | :47:58. | |
modern parenting, does the Prime Minister agree it is time to ask | :47:58. | :48:02. | |
the law commission to look at this law once again? | :48:02. | :48:06. | |
He is right to raise this. It was a completely shocking case and for | :48:06. | :48:09. | |
anyone to try and understand how a parent could treat their child in | :48:09. | :48:14. | |
that way, it is just completely unfathomable. I will look at what | :48:14. | :48:17. | |
he says about the law commission and modernising the law. I would | :48:17. | :48:20. | |
make this point, that in terms of dealing with these appalling cases | :48:20. | :48:24. | |
of child neglect and where families have completely broken down, we do | :48:24. | :48:28. | |
have so many agencies currently working on this, including | :48:28. | :48:31. | |
crucially, social workers, and the most important thing is for there | :48:31. | :48:35. | |
to be a real system of passing on information and passing on concerns | :48:35. | :48:38. | |
rapidly and then acting on those concerns, just passing another law | :48:38. | :48:42. | |
won't make up for the common sense and action that we require our | :48:42. | :48:48. | |
agencies to deliver. Can I thank the Prime Minister and | :48:48. | :48:52. | |
the Chancellor for joining with so many of their colleagues yesterday | :48:52. | :48:58. | |
in abstaining in voting against the save Bianca amendment and ask, give | :48:58. | :49:01. | |
than 65% of the public want to see caps on the cost of credit when | :49:01. | :49:06. | |
Ministers will finally give in and do something about ending loan | :49:06. | :49:10. | |
sharking in the UK. We have this new new pow forethe agency which | :49:10. | :49:14. | |
has been established and also the OFT has powers, so it's very | :49:14. | :49:21. | |
important to talk to those agencies and make sure they can act. | :49:21. | :49:24. | |
The local council tax frozen for two years, the lowest inflation | :49:24. | :49:27. | |
rate in three years and biggest monthly fall in local unemployment | :49:27. | :49:34. | |
in five years, is great news for jobseeker's, pensioners and savers. | :49:34. | :49:38. | |
Does my right honourable friend agree that although times are tough | :49:38. | :49:41. | |
and much still needs to be done, this Government and this country | :49:41. | :49:49. | |
are on the right track? Clearly we do face difficult | :49:49. | :49:52. | |
economic times and will go on to talk about the plans required in | :49:52. | :49:56. | |
Europe. What we have to do in this country is rebalance our economy | :49:56. | :49:59. | |
that had become overreliant on the public sector, on financial | :49:59. | :50:02. | |
services, not fairly spread around the country, and we need a growth | :50:02. | :50:06. | |
of the private sector, of manufacturing, technology and need | :50:06. | :50:09. | |
it more fairly spread across the country, including in the area he | :50:09. | :50:13. | |
represents. What you see from the employment figures is yes, a | :50:13. | :50:17. | |
decline in public sector employment which frankly, would be inevitable, | :50:17. | :50:22. | |
whoever was in power, but the 600,000 net new jobs in the private | :50:22. | :50:25. | |
sector shows some firms are expanding and growing and we must | :50:25. | :50:30. | |
be on their side. Unemployment in Hartlepool in the north-east is | :50:30. | :50:38. | |
higher now than in May 20 so. -- 2010. How much of that is gown to | :50:38. | :50:41. | |
his -- down to his Government policy as soon as. The last | :50:41. | :50:43. | |
Government excluded from the unemployment numbers people who | :50:43. | :50:47. | |
were on temporary employment schemes. We included those people, | :50:47. | :50:51. | |
people on the work programme are included in the unemployment | :50:51. | :50:56. | |
numbers. We measure these things accurately and if you compare like- | :50:56. | :51:03. | |
for-like, youth unemployment has fallen since the election. | :51:03. | :51:06. | |
Britain has an excellent track record in scientific research and | :51:06. | :51:09. | |
development, despite historically low levels of funding. For this to | :51:09. | :51:13. | |
continue and to continue to drive so much economic growth, sustained | :51:13. | :51:16. | |
funding is required. Can the Prime Minister assure me that this will | :51:16. | :51:19. | |
be delivered for this parliament and the next comprehensive spending | :51:19. | :51:23. | |
review? Obviously, I can't bind the hands of the next spending review, | :51:24. | :51:26. | |
but we did make an important decision in this comprehensive | :51:26. | :51:30. | |
spending review, which was to protect the science budget T would | :51:30. | :51:33. | |
have been an easy target for reductions and perhaps we could | :51:33. | :51:35. | |
have spent that money on politically more attractive things | :51:35. | :51:39. | |
but we decided to take the long- term view to save the science | :51:39. | :51:43. | |
budget because it's a key part of Britain's future. | :51:43. | :51:47. | |
It was recently announced 800 frontline police officers will be | :51:47. | :51:51. | |
cut in Wales. While the chair of the Welsh Police Federation that's | :51:51. | :51:56. | |
going to be closer to 1600, equivalent of the entire Gwent | :51:56. | :52:00. | |
police force, who is right? truth is whoever was in Government | :52:00. | :52:05. | |
right now would be having to make cuts to police budgets. That's what | :52:05. | :52:10. | |
the Labour - the Labour Party has committed to a cut in the police | :52:10. | :52:14. | |
budget. We have made reductions. The key to having police officers | :52:14. | :52:17. | |
on the street is cut paperwork, reform pensions and deal with pay | :52:17. | :52:20. | |
issues. We have the courage to do that and his party should support | :52:21. | :52:29. | |
it, as well. Last weekend network of Brighton | :52:29. | :52:33. | |
and Hove invited friends around Europe to campaign against what | :52:33. | :52:38. | |
they call weatherley law. Will he condemn the Green Party support for | :52:38. | :52:41. | |
squatters and welcome the criminalisation of squatting? | :52:41. | :52:45. | |
certainly support what he says. I think this law was long overdue. I | :52:45. | :52:48. | |
think it's very important that home owners have proper protection from | :52:48. | :52:51. | |
people effectively stealing their property which is what squatting is. | :52:51. | :52:55. | |
It is a criminal act. It's now a criminal offence. | :52:55. | :53:04. | |
Last week it was revealed that officials at the UKVA received | :53:04. | :53:09. | |
bonuses. Given the queues at airports, 100,000 files have been | :53:09. | :53:16. | |
archived by the UKBA and 185 people have absconded. Can I ask the Prime | :53:16. | :53:21. | |
Minister does he agree in future we should be rewarding success, not | :53:21. | :53:26. | |
failure? I completely agree with the honourable gentleman. There is | :53:26. | :53:30. | |
absolutely no place in the modern civil service for a presumption of | :53:30. | :53:33. | |
good performance. I do believe in actually paying people bonuses if | :53:34. | :53:37. | |
they perform well and meet targets. But if they don't perform well and | :53:37. | :53:40. | |
don't meet targets, they shouldn't get a bonus. In terms of Heathrow | :53:40. | :53:43. | |
and our airports, I think it's vitally important that we continue | :53:43. | :53:47. | |
to make progress. This is an urgent issue for Britain. It's vital for | :53:47. | :53:51. | |
our trade, vital for inward investment that people have a | :53:51. | :53:54. | |
decent experience when they arrive at our airports. We have a new | :53:54. | :53:58. | |
control room opening at Heathrow this month. There's extra 80 staff | :53:58. | :54:05. | |
for peak times at Heathrow. An extra 480 people during the Olympic | :54:05. | :54:08. | |
Olympic period. I am still not satisfied we need to do more more | :54:08. | :54:14. | |
including this week and next week to get on top of this problem. | :54:14. | :54:17. | |
constituency is relieved to learn this Government has already cleared | :54:17. | :54:22. | |
one quarter of the record irresponsible deficit left by the | :54:22. | :54:30. | |
party opposite. They understand that you cannot keep spending what | :54:30. | :54:35. | |
you do not earn. But what they would also like to know is has the | :54:35. | :54:40. | |
Prime Minister received just one quarter of an apology? | :54:40. | :54:45. | |
He makes a good point and I notice that the party opposite didn't | :54:45. | :54:49. | |
really want to go near the International Monetary Fund today, | :54:49. | :54:53. | |
perhaps that's because of something else the director general said | :54:53. | :54:57. | |
yesterday, you have to compare the British deficit situation against | :54:57. | :55:00. | |
other countries which experienced severe deficit numbers, did not | :55:00. | :55:05. | |
take action right away, and are now facing very, very stressful | :55:05. | :55:08. | |
financing terps that is putting their situation in jeopardy. He | :55:08. | :55:12. | |
would have been in jeopardy if we hadn't taken the brave steps we | :55:12. | :55:19. | |
took. Very necessary they were, too. The Electoral Commission figures | :55:19. | :55:26. | |
show the Conservatives got over �500,000 already this year from | :55:26. | :55:30. | |
people attending secret soirees at Downing Street or Chequers. Is the | :55:30. | :55:38. | |
reason the Prime Minister is out of touch and listens to these clicques, | :55:38. | :55:41. | |
rather than decent hard working people like those in Scunthorpe? | :55:41. | :55:44. | |
There is a big difference between the money that the Conservative | :55:44. | :55:48. | |
Party raises from business and individuals and the money Labour | :55:48. | :55:53. | |
get from unions. The money that the Labour Party gets from unions | :55:53. | :55:57. | |
determines your policies, sponsors your members of parliament, and | :55:57. | :56:07. | |
:56:07. | :56:09. | ||
elects your leaders. They own you, lock, stock and block vote. | :56:09. | :56:13. | |
Order! Order. I am quite certain Conservative backbenchers wish to | :56:13. | :56:22. | |
hear Mr Steven Williams. Mr Speaker, the coalition | :56:22. | :56:31. | |
Government has restored order and stability to the public finances. | :56:31. | :56:35. | |
And is therefore won us international confidence, is it not | :56:35. | :56:39. | |
now the right time in order to put renewed effort and vigour into | :56:39. | :56:43. | |
returning growth into the economy by the Government facilitating and | :56:43. | :56:46. | |
guaranteeing investment in housing and infrastructure? | :56:46. | :56:50. | |
I think the honourable gentleman is entirely right and I am sure he | :56:50. | :56:53. | |
welcomes the enterprise zone in Bristol and also the support for | :56:53. | :56:56. | |
the animation and television industries. What we need to do, | :56:56. | :57:01. | |
both in Britain and Europe, is to combine the fiscal deficit | :57:01. | :57:04. | |
reduction which has given us the low interest rates with an active | :57:04. | :57:08. | |
monetary policy, with structural reforms to make us competitive, and | :57:08. | :57:12. | |
with innovative ways of using our hard-won credibility which we | :57:12. | :57:22. | |
:57:22. | :57:30. | ||
wouldn't have if we listened to the muttering idiot sitting opposite me. | :57:30. | :57:40. | |
:57:40. | :57:49. | ||
Order, order. I am very worried about the health | :57:49. | :57:53. | |
of the Health Minister who is so overexcited he might suffer a | :57:53. | :57:56. | |
relapse and I am a compassionate chap. I don't want that to happen. | :57:57. | :58:03. | |
The Prime Minister will please withdraw the word "idiot", it's | :58:03. | :58:07. | |
unparliamentary. A simple withdrawal will suffice. Of course, | :58:07. | :58:11. | |
I will replace it with a man who left us this enormous deficit and | :58:11. | :58:21. | |
:58:21. | :58:29. | ||
financial crisis. Thank you, Mr Speaker. After six | :58:30. | :58:32. | |
months in Government the Prime Minister announced that his | :58:32. | :58:38. | |
Government had created 500,000 private sector jobs. After two | :58:38. | :58:43. | |
years he's now giving us the figure of 600,000 since the election. Why | :58:43. | :58:47. | |
has the rate of growth slowed down so much? | :58:47. | :58:52. | |
Well, there were 100,000 extra people in employment over the last | :58:52. | :58:57. | |
quarter. In the last two months we have seen repeated falls in | :58:57. | :58:59. | |
unemployment and increases in employment. I would have thought | :59:00. | :59:05. | |
the honourable lady would want to welcome that. | :59:05. | :59:11. | |
Mr Speaker, with unemployment down in Lancaster last week, I visited A | :59:11. | :59:16. | |
and G precision engineering, a company of only 40 employees, who | :59:17. | :59:22. | |
supply the hawk jet, high precision work nationally and internationally | :59:22. | :59:27. | |
and told me they turned two work experience places into full-time. | :59:27. | :59:29. | |
Does this show that things are moving in the right direction in | :59:30. | :59:32. | |
Lancashire? I am grateful for what he says. I | :59:32. | :59:38. | |
am sure he will be pleased as well with the order that BAE Systems | :59:38. | :59:41. | |
have for Hawk aircraft today from Saudi Arabia, which is more good | :59:41. | :59:47. | |
news for British jobs and British investment and British Aerospace. | :59:47. | :59:52. | |
Some of our constituents would be hungry today if it was not for the | :59:52. | :59:58. | |
work of Food Bank and similar organisations. If current trends | :59:58. | :00:01. | |
continue, Food Bank reckon by the next election they will be feeding | :00:01. | :00:07. | |
half a million of our constituents. Might I ask the Prime Minister, | :00:07. | :00:10. | |
before he completes his engagements today, he might plan what the | :00:10. | :00:15. | |
Government might do to counterthis terrible trend and and report back | :00:15. | :00:19. | |
to the House? First of all, let me join the right honourable member in | :00:20. | :00:24. | |
welcoming what Food Bank do and the work and I visited one of the sites | :00:24. | :00:30. | |
myself to see what they do. What is absolutely vital in these difficult | :00:30. | :00:33. | |
economic types we do what we can to protect the poorest people in our | :00:33. | :00:36. | |
country and that's why we have we have frozen council tax, increased | :00:36. | :00:40. | |
basic state pension and we uprated benefits in line with inflation | :00:40. | :00:44. | |
which has protected people who need protection the most. Yes, we have | :00:44. | :00:50. | |
had to cut the tax credits from those people on 30, 40, 50,000 but | :00:50. | :00:57. | |
increased tax credits that the poorest people receive. | :00:57. | :01:00. | |
The Prime Minister and I might not agree about everything but we agree | :01:00. | :01:03. | |
with certain things, for example, we both agree I should never be | :01:03. | :01:08. | |
promoted. One thing that we also agree about is that the necessary - | :01:08. | :01:11. | |
need to put public sector pensions on a sustainable and affordable | :01:11. | :01:16. | |
footing. But in that context, judges are being asked to pay 2% of | :01:16. | :01:21. | |
their salary towards their pension, whereas the taxpayer pays 33%. | :01:21. | :01:24. | |
That's neither affordable nor sustainable. Given the increases in | :01:24. | :01:27. | |
pension contributions we are expecting from other lower paid | :01:28. | :01:30. | |
public sector workers, will the Prime Minister make sure we apply | :01:30. | :01:36. | |
the same tests and same requirements on judges, too? | :01:36. | :01:40. | |
Well, my friend makes an important point. I would say is that judicial | :01:40. | :01:45. | |
judicial pensions have always been treated separately because of what | :01:45. | :01:49. | |
judges do for our country. But in terms of public sector pensions | :01:49. | :01:56. | |
more generally, what we have managed to do... Order. A reply to | :01:56. | :02:00. | |
a serious question. Let's hear it with with with a degree of respect | :02:00. | :02:05. | |
and restraint. What we have done with public | :02:05. | :02:09. | |
sector pensions more generally is reduce by half the future cost but | :02:09. | :02:13. | |
while maintaining a public sector pensions system that's more | :02:13. | :02:16. | |
generous than people are able to access in the private sector. As | :02:16. | :02:26. | |
:02:26. | :02:33. | ||
for his earlier remarks, I have plans for the honourable gentleman. | :02:33. | :02:39. | |
Mr Speaker... Order! The House will be relieved to know I don't intend | :02:39. | :02:46. | |
to go into any of that but I want to hear Mr McCann. Mr Speaker, | :02:46. | :02:53. | |
prison officer, abused young men in centre before he was prosecuted and | :02:53. | :02:56. | |
sentenced for some of his crimes. A constituent who was abused by | :02:56. | :02:58. | |
Husband has given me information which suggests that senior figures | :02:59. | :03:04. | |
in the establishment knew what was going on. The CPS refuses to pursue | :03:04. | :03:07. | |
these matters and and indeed the Home Office has sought to issue | :03:07. | :03:10. | |
compensation payments. Mr Speaker, young men were detained by the | :03:11. | :03:13. | |
state and abused by the state. Does the Prime Minister agree that a | :03:13. | :03:16. | |
full inquiry is necessary to ensure that justice is done and a seen to | :03:16. | :03:19. | |
be done? Well, I think the first thing that | :03:19. | :03:22. | |
the honourable gentleman should do and I am sure he already has, is | :03:22. | :03:27. | |
make sure that any evidence he has of abuse or of coverups of abuse or | :03:27. | :03:30. | |
compliance with abuse is given to the Crown Prosecution Service and | :03:30. | :03:37. | |
given to the authorities so it can be properly investigated. The home | :03:37. | :03:39. | |
affairs select committee looked into this issue and and made a | :03:40. | :03:43. | |
number of recommendations, so I will look carefully at what the | :03:43. | :03:45. | |
honourable gentleman said and see if there is more advice I can | :03:45. | :03:54. | |
PMQs comes to an end and you will not see it for three more weeks so | :03:54. | :04:00. | |
I hope you enjoyed it. The front bench was dominated by the Beecroft | :04:00. | :04:05. | |
Report and the labour market. We will come back to that. David | :04:05. | :04:12. | |
Cameron described the Shadow Chancellor as a muttering idiot and | :04:12. | :04:15. | |
he was forced to withdraw it because that is not parliamentary. | :04:15. | :04:20. | |
It was not a fulsome withdrawal, I think. There are questions about | :04:20. | :04:24. | |
how much wine they had had to drink following the story at the weekend | :04:24. | :04:28. | |
about him having four glasses on a Sunday but last time I looked, this | :04:28. | :04:32. | |
was Wednesday. I doubt he has a glass of everything before PMQs, | :04:32. | :04:36. | |
but he will be furious with himself because he allowed Ed Balls to get | :04:36. | :04:41. | |
under his skin it yet again. Interesting that there were no Lib | :04:41. | :04:47. | |
Dems sitting next to David Cameron today. The big story was what the | :04:47. | :04:52. | |
Prime Minister had to say about the European Court ruling that Britain | :04:52. | :04:56. | |
cannot continue with its blanket ban on no votes for prisoners. That | :04:56. | :05:02. | |
it has to come up with some kind of formula, which excludes some but | :05:02. | :05:06. | |
includes others. The Prime Minister said he wanted no truck with what | :05:06. | :05:12. | |
European Court of Human Rights. He wanted no truck with doing that on | :05:12. | :05:19. | |
this very programme, and Andy Burnham agreed with that. Looks | :05:19. | :05:22. | |
like we are heading for a major clash between Westminster and the | :05:22. | :05:25. | |
Strasbourg court. We will talk about that as well because it will | :05:25. | :05:29. | |
be in the news for the rest of the day. What are you thinking? There | :05:29. | :05:34. | |
was a flurry of emails at the end because the muttering idiot, and | :05:34. | :05:38. | |
came towards the end. This is pathetic politics, says Jonathan | :05:38. | :05:42. | |
Paxton of Bedfordshire. PMQs should be about debating policy and | :05:42. | :05:46. | |
finding out what is going on in Parliament. Perhaps he has not been | :05:47. | :05:50. | |
watching recently! Rick Morris and says that David Cameron is losing | :05:50. | :05:58. | |
the plot if he is resorting to language like muttering idiot. | :05:58. | :06:02. | |
Adrian Beecroft attracted most of your comments. His questioning is | :06:02. | :06:12. | |
:06:12. | :06:12. | ||
poor. Beecroft is talking about overall reforms leading to higher | :06:12. | :06:18. | |
levels of employment overall. The tension between the Tory left wing | :06:18. | :06:22. | |
and the Liberal Democrats is rising and David Cameron appears to be the | :06:22. | :06:26. | |
startled rabbit between the headlights. And when his David | :06:26. | :06:31. | |
Cameron going to answer a question? He never gives an answer and always | :06:31. | :06:40. | |
resorts to Sidey Commons and being offensive. And -- snide comments. | :06:40. | :06:46. | |
And this, the media have whipped this up. What we do a thing like | :06:46. | :06:56. | |
that? Never! -- would we? This is something that we have not whipped | :06:56. | :07:02. | |
up. The low surrender vote. We have a situation now where the European | :07:02. | :07:06. | |
Court has said, ruling on an Italian case, that it is not for us | :07:06. | :07:11. | |
to say which prisoners should have the vote and which should not. But | :07:11. | :07:16. | |
a blanket ban on all prisoners is against the European Convention of | :07:16. | :07:19. | |
Human Rights. It is up to the British Government and we have six | :07:19. | :07:23. | |
months to come forward with proposals designating which | :07:23. | :07:28. | |
prisoners should and which should not, if you wish. Both Labour and | :07:28. | :07:31. | |
Conservatives are seen in to say that they are not on. They are | :07:32. | :07:36. | |
declaring war on the Court, and saying it is a foreign court is | :07:36. | :07:40. | |
very provocative. Believers in the European Convention on Human Rights | :07:40. | :07:43. | |
would say that this is not foreign and was created in large part | :07:43. | :07:47. | |
thanks to a British initiative after the war to make sure that | :07:47. | :07:50. | |
human rights were spread in the countries that formally had | :07:50. | :07:57. | |
despotic regimes. That is a provocative thing to say. It might | :07:57. | :08:01. | |
force Nick Clegg as the minister responsible, which she is, or his | :08:01. | :08:07. | |
deputy, conveniently, because Nick Clegg might be rather busy, to | :08:07. | :08:11. | |
explain why he is not sticking with what he sold Parliament a few | :08:11. | :08:15. | |
months ago. The official line from that dispatch box was that this is | :08:15. | :08:19. | |
their legal obligation to give some prisoners a vote, and it is the | :08:19. | :08:23. | |
right thing to do because it stops Britain being sued and prisoners | :08:23. | :08:27. | |
getting compensation, the implication being that those of you | :08:27. | :08:30. | |
that don't like prisoners voting will dislike them being given huge | :08:30. | :08:34. | |
sums of money because they have not got the vote. And the Government | :08:34. | :08:40. | |
has a legal international obligations. The Prime Minister has | :08:40. | :08:47. | |
torn that up and says he does not care and Parliament has made its | :08:47. | :08:54. | |
view clear. This begs questions for the Attorney-General, the top near | :08:54. | :08:58. | |
in the Government. He has always said that it is the law. You might | :08:58. | :09:04. | |
not like it. But we have to go along with them. Further thoughts? | :09:04. | :09:09. | |
We are in unprecedented territory, I think. We have been in the stand- | :09:09. | :09:14. | |
off with the European Court before. I sent my clear feelings out | :09:14. | :09:19. | |
earlier. But having seen that PMQs I clear feeling was that the | :09:19. | :09:27. | |
language was not helpful from David Cameron. -- my feeling. His comment | :09:27. | :09:32. | |
to Ed Balls was not prime- ministerial. This will not help the | :09:32. | :09:35. | |
matter. He is not popular with his own backbenchers at the moment so | :09:35. | :09:40. | |
this could be read need for them. think this is what it was designed | :09:40. | :09:49. | |
to do. -- red meat for them. actually think it puts off people | :09:49. | :09:53. | |
like me that think that this is not unacceptable intrusion into British | :09:53. | :09:58. | |
politics. Your thoughts? A thought the Prime Minister may be | :09:58. | :10:02. | |
Government's position very clear. The only thing I would add to that | :10:02. | :10:08. | |
is that I sometimes think we have a debate in Britain about human | :10:08. | :10:10. | |
rights, as though human-rights were intrinsically a bad thing, a | :10:10. | :10:17. | |
foreign imposition. We should allow ourselves to get into the mindset | :10:17. | :10:20. | |
that we set an international example in terms of human rights | :10:20. | :10:24. | |
law. We should not feel defensive about human rights, as if they are | :10:24. | :10:31. | |
an alien imposition. We have done a documentary for the BBC on this, | :10:31. | :10:35. | |
and Winston Churchill was behind the original convention, a very | :10:35. | :10:41. | |
right-wing Tory Home Secretary was as well. But I don't think they | :10:41. | :10:46. | |
ever envisaged that it would be used to give prisoners votes. | :10:46. | :10:53. | |
incarceration, you surrender rights. You go a cross that line, and you | :10:53. | :11:02. | |
surrender your rights. Non all of Dems agree, but I do agree. In -- | :11:02. | :11:07. | |
not all of the Lib Dems agree. We should not sound like we have lost | :11:07. | :11:12. | |
faith in the rights of individuals to have their human rights upheld. | :11:12. | :11:18. | |
Let go back to Adrian Beecroft. I assume Labour's in position is that | :11:18. | :11:22. | |
you are against all of the proposals in the report? They are | :11:22. | :11:26. | |
some things worth considering. I do not have a blanket opposition to | :11:26. | :11:30. | |
everything that this man says, but let's go back to the thing that is | :11:30. | :11:34. | |
causing controversy, unfair dismissal. His proposal to have | :11:34. | :11:39. | |
this ability for companies to fire people but with a small payment, | :11:39. | :11:43. | |
can this be the response to what we have been through? That the most | :11:43. | :11:47. | |
powerful people in society can pull the rug from people at the bottom? | :11:47. | :11:51. | |
If that is where we are going, that is not the country I want to live | :11:51. | :11:54. | |
in. The Government has changed it so that you can basically fire at | :11:54. | :11:59. | |
will for up to two years after hiring somebody. If you do not know | :11:59. | :12:03. | |
after two years if somebody is any good, you should not be an employer. | :12:03. | :12:07. | |
It seems to me that the problem is not supplied, but a lack of demand | :12:07. | :12:16. | |
in the British economy. -- not supply. I want is the protection | :12:16. | :12:19. | |
for people at work but I think flexible labour markets are a big | :12:19. | :12:23. | |
asset. We have one of the most flexible labour markets. We are | :12:23. | :12:28. | |
talking about unemployment. The reason youth unemployment is at 21%, | :12:28. | :12:34. | |
too high, and we want it to be lower, but it is 50% in Spain and | :12:35. | :12:41. | |
Greece, from memory. I think it is important to have employee | :12:41. | :12:44. | |
protection, but we do not want to be in a position in this country | :12:44. | :12:48. | |
when employers are deterred from employing people because they | :12:48. | :12:54. | |
feared that they cannot reorganise their work force. The Labour Party | :12:54. | :12:58. | |
has the right to hire and fire his whole team not based on well, not | :12:58. | :13:07. | |
on any objective criteria. The job creation scheme! On the principle | :13:07. | :13:10. | |
of being inside the tent but not out, and I will not give the exact | :13:10. | :13:14. | |
quote, but he has to hire some people for the Shadow Cabinet. | :13:14. | :13:20. | |
Their more PMQs for three weeks and a big story on the European Court. | :13:20. | :13:25. | |
-- no more PMQs. Yes, I think it will be a big story. We have not | :13:25. | :13:33. | |
talked about the muttering idiot stake when. I -- statement. I don't | :13:33. | :13:39. | |
think people realise that the microphones are very direction will. | :13:39. | :13:45. | |
This is not a technology point. You only here what is switched on and | :13:45. | :13:52. | |
you do not hear the extraordinary amount of noise that there is. What | :13:52. | :13:59. | |
Ed Balls does, it is the equivalent of what they call sledging in | :13:59. | :14:05. | |
cricket. Ed Balls tries to put him off. He finds a new story that is | :14:05. | :14:09. | |
awkward about drinking wine at the weekend and keeps on saying it. And | :14:09. | :14:19. | |
it works. We have to talk more about economic growth. We are | :14:19. | :14:24. | |
sledging ourselves! Thank you, Nick Robinson. Enjoy the Jubilee. | :14:24. | :14:30. | |
can't wait. I will be celebrating in the Republic of the United | :14:30. | :14:35. | |
States. The First Republic! Have you had enough of the recession, | :14:35. | :14:40. | |
the eurozone crisis and this talk of austerity? Would you like to | :14:40. | :14:43. | |
fast forward to a golden era of growth? George Trefgarne thinks | :14:43. | :14:51. | |
that to do so we need to rewind to another era. Here is his soapbox. | :14:51. | :14:57. | |
An implement, dole queues, poverty and misery. -- unemployment. It | :14:57. | :15:01. | |
must be the 1930s. But the view of this decade as a destitute period | :15:02. | :15:07. | |
is a myth. Of course the mood was depressing in 1931, and there were | :15:07. | :15:10. | |
pockets of severe poverty throughout the decade in Britain. | :15:10. | :15:20. | |
:15:20. | :15:28. | ||
But there is also another story to If you were a a Lufhwaffe pilot a | :15:28. | :15:33. | |
huge new building would have Serbed -- serveded as a useful navigation | :15:33. | :15:37. | |
aid. Completed in 1933, just in time for the world's first National | :15:37. | :15:42. | |
Grid to be switched on, bringing electricity to every home in the | :15:42. | :15:47. | |
land, Battersea power station is a classic example of the sort of | :15:47. | :15:50. | |
infrastructure investment and technical innovation which took | :15:50. | :15:54. | |
place at the time. By the middle of the decade, a British boom was | :15:54. | :15:59. | |
under way. Neville Chamberlain was Chancellor. | :15:59. | :16:03. | |
He might be reviled now for his subsequent role in appeasing the | :16:03. | :16:09. | |
Nazis, but he was surprisingly good at running the Treasury. This | :16:09. | :16:16. | |
Budget, which I introduced today, has been made possible by sound | :16:16. | :16:20. | |
finance on the part of the Government and by hard work on the | :16:20. | :16:26. | |
part of the people. About 2.8 million new homes were | :16:26. | :16:30. | |
constructed as suburbs expanded. Car and aircraft production boomed. | :16:30. | :16:35. | |
And firms like Austin and Morris were internationally famous names. | :16:35. | :16:40. | |
Unemployment fell by almost a half between 1932 and 1937. | :16:40. | :16:45. | |
The economic recovery they stphau the 1930s is in sharp contrast to | :16:45. | :16:49. | |
the rather flimsy recovery we have experienced today. So what lessons | :16:49. | :16:55. | |
can we learn? Well, I think there are five steps we need to take to | :16:55. | :17:02. | |
restore the economy to health. Spending cuts work. A 10% cut in | :17:02. | :17:05. | |
unemployment benefit and civil service salaries helped balance the | :17:05. | :17:09. | |
Budget. But this must be offset by an effective cheap money policy | :17:09. | :17:15. | |
based on low interest rates, so the private sector can invest to expand. | :17:15. | :17:19. | |
Confidence in the financial system must be restored and in the 1930s | :17:19. | :17:26. | |
there were several high profile trials as crooks who thrived were | :17:26. | :17:31. | |
brought to book. Tax cuts work. In his Budget of 1934 Neville | :17:31. | :17:34. | |
Chamberlain was able to cut income tax for the low paid and for | :17:34. | :17:38. | |
families. Finally, press on with welfare | :17:38. | :17:43. | |
reform. The 1930s governments didn't do enough for the long-term | :17:43. | :17:47. | |
unemployed. The truth is that all financial crises, even the current | :17:48. | :17:51. | |
one, will come to an end, as long as we are prepared to learn the | :17:51. | :18:01. | |
:18:01. | :18:05. | ||
And George is with us now. You have pointed to some of the upsides as | :18:05. | :18:08. | |
you say by the mid-1930s, some of the investment that you say was | :18:08. | :18:12. | |
going on. But you don't balance that with the economic pain that | :18:12. | :18:17. | |
was obviously suffered at the 1920s, into the 30s, do you accept that, | :18:17. | :18:21. | |
high unemployment, businesses going to the wall? What I tried to do in | :18:21. | :18:27. | |
writing this paper was to - we all have opinions about how to restore | :18:27. | :18:29. | |
economic growth, I thought let's find evidence of what worked in the | :18:29. | :18:32. | |
past and it is true at the beginning of the 1930s there was | :18:32. | :18:37. | |
terrible unemployment. There was effectively a double dip recession | :18:37. | :18:41. | |
first the Wall Street crash then a crisis in Europe and then drastic | :18:41. | :18:44. | |
spending cuts over here. So, there was about three million unemployed, | :18:44. | :18:48. | |
it was about roughly speaking 15 or 20% of the workforce at the | :18:48. | :18:53. | |
beginning of the decade. But I suppose if you look at what other | :18:53. | :18:56. | |
people have said, for instance, the Shadow Chancellor, saying those | :18:56. | :18:58. | |
policies then that were introduced in terms of spending cuts were | :18:58. | :19:03. | |
wrong and that's why those unemployment figures and businesses | :19:03. | :19:09. | |
- were so high? One of the reasons I wrote this is I was struck by how | :19:09. | :19:13. | |
Ed Balls always brings up the 1930s, he is a bad historian. It's simply | :19:13. | :19:17. | |
not true. He has his facts wrong. Which bit wasn't true? He is | :19:18. | :19:21. | |
questioning the policies at the time what were made it so bad, not | :19:21. | :19:24. | |
that the recovery happened. There was a financial crisis, the Wall | :19:24. | :19:27. | |
Street crash and other banking crisis in Europe. Those were the | :19:27. | :19:31. | |
really big contributors to the big unemployment at the beginning of | :19:31. | :19:35. | |
the decade. But then Britain, unlike America, and I think Andrew | :19:35. | :19:39. | |
said this before, people always think of the 1930s and think of | :19:39. | :19:42. | |
America, but in Britain there was a strong economic recovery. Do you | :19:42. | :19:46. | |
think that was as a result of cutting as harshly as they did then, | :19:46. | :19:49. | |
that was the right policy? It was part of the policy but it was | :19:49. | :19:55. | |
offset by some very important softening aspects. One was a | :19:55. | :19:58. | |
restructure of the national debt and the debt conversion, which is | :19:58. | :20:01. | |
one of the biggest events of the time. They had low interest rates. | :20:01. | :20:05. | |
They had a huge house building boom. They had amazing new industries | :20:05. | :20:08. | |
from aircraft, car production, that sort of thing. Do you agree with | :20:08. | :20:14. | |
this report published last week which called the debate on public | :20:14. | :20:19. | |
spending in the UK a phoney austerity, that actually the rate | :20:19. | :20:23. | |
is not fast enough. I do agree with that, but they haven't done enough | :20:23. | :20:27. | |
to try and create growth. I think the Labour Party have said some | :20:27. | :20:30. | |
important things on this. The Government is not focused enough on | :20:30. | :20:33. | |
growth. It's simply focused on deficit reduction. What do you sty | :20:33. | :20:37. | |
that? I don't think it's an either- or with austerity and growth. | :20:37. | :20:42. | |
Everybody wants growth, apart from a few people in the Green Party. | :20:42. | :20:47. | |
Let me talk - we have kept Bank of England base rate at half a percent | :20:47. | :20:49. | |
for I think over three years, the whole time in this Government. We | :20:50. | :20:54. | |
have cut income tax, in fact we have removed about 2 million people | :20:54. | :20:58. | |
from income tax altogether. Allowed them to spend more of their money. | :20:58. | :21:01. | |
The Deputy Prime Minister is interviewed today about | :21:01. | :21:05. | |
infrastructure, spending, we are making improvements in education | :21:05. | :21:09. | |
system. Would you like interest rates to be cut even further? | :21:09. | :21:14. | |
much lower they can they can go from half a percent. We are in - we | :21:14. | :21:18. | |
are spending over �300 million a day of public money, borrowed money, | :21:18. | :21:23. | |
on stimulus for the economy. So there are all kinds - as well as | :21:23. | :21:25. | |
all things we are talking about earlier, which is about making sure | :21:26. | :21:29. | |
that we attract inward investment, increase trade with fast growing | :21:29. | :21:35. | |
mark nets Asia. Tkrbg -- markets in Asia. There's something slightly | :21:35. | :21:41. | |
different I want to ask Andy, about the issue of the trials for those | :21:41. | :21:47. | |
financial people who were blamed for what happened, in part n the | :21:47. | :21:51. | |
1930s, do you think something like that would have helped here? It has | :21:51. | :21:55. | |
been happening to a degree, there's parliamentary inquiries, the media | :21:55. | :21:58. | |
looking at great detail. People have lost honours. Do you think | :21:58. | :22:01. | |
there should have been more of that? The public want to see those | :22:01. | :22:03. | |
responsible held to account, no doubt about that. I agree with some | :22:04. | :22:07. | |
of the things George was saying. The tax cut issue is obviously | :22:07. | :22:11. | |
something we would agree with, we said the VAT increase last January | :22:11. | :22:16. | |
was damaging. I would say that's one of the things that's not helped | :22:16. | :22:19. | |
and tipping us back into recession. You are possibly in danger of | :22:19. | :22:23. | |
rewriting history a bit yourself, in America, they had two new deals | :22:23. | :22:26. | |
and the feeling was they stopped them too early and the States went | :22:27. | :22:30. | |
back to recession at the end of the 30s. I have to say thank you very | :22:30. | :22:39. | |
much. Andrew, what are you doing? Sorry, | :22:39. | :22:48. | |
I was chillaxing there! Very funny, I fell for it. | :22:48. | :22:54. | |
Let's go to Adam. The last few weeks has seen the | :22:54. | :22:59. | |
proliferation of a plethora oria of new words related to the news. This | :22:59. | :23:02. | |
hat is full of them, let's find out if any are catching on with the | :23:02. | :23:12. | |
:23:12. | :23:16. | ||
What did you get? Chillax. Does he seem like a chillaxed person, David | :23:16. | :23:19. | |
Cameron? He does, with his rolled up sleeves, no tie. It represents | :23:19. | :23:27. | |
everything that's wrong with the world. The simple word? Yeah, it's | :23:28. | :23:32. | |
just, you know, it's just not right. Have you heard that word? I have, | :23:32. | :23:39. | |
but I am trying to remember where from. You said you were a viewer of | :23:39. | :23:44. | |
the Daily Politics. I know, I know. It's embarrassing. What does that | :23:44. | :23:54. | |
:23:54. | :23:55. | ||
mean? Twitter for Italian? Remode. What does that mean? I have no idea. | :23:55. | :23:58. | |
It's actually the word the department for transport used for | :23:58. | :24:01. | |
us changing our way we get to work during the Olympics. | :24:01. | :24:04. | |
Oh, yes, it all makes perfect sense now! | :24:04. | :24:12. | |
Also known as walking. Oh, right! Yes, I can see that. Have you heard | :24:12. | :24:20. | |
that word? No. Would you like to guess what it means? | :24:20. | :24:24. | |
Do you know what it means? Greeks exit out of the euro, | :24:24. | :24:28. | |
perhaps? Correct. You are the first person to get it. What do you think | :24:28. | :24:34. | |
of that as a word? I think it's quite cool actually. | :24:34. | :24:42. | |
I think it will become very much a real word in a few days, I think. | :24:42. | :24:46. | |
Geuro. Have you heard of that? That's basically a parallel | :24:46. | :24:50. | |
currency for Greece, because of the economic problems. OK. Do you think | :24:50. | :24:59. | |
it's going to catch on? Not really. What is sweatworking? I am guessing | :24:59. | :25:03. | |
it's working really hard until you break out in sweat. It's instead of | :25:03. | :25:08. | |
a meeting, you go to the gym with your colleague. Fantastic! Do you | :25:08. | :25:14. | |
know what it means? Haven't a clue. You are tkpwog get fired! Oh, no. | :25:14. | :25:24. | |
:25:24. | :25:25. | ||
Producer guidelines? It's The hat is empty, and it urns out a lot of | :25:25. | :25:29. | |
the words we have been using every day the public don't even know what | :25:29. | :25:36. | |
they mean. Oh, dear. Nice hat. Joining us now from | :25:36. | :25:42. | |
Oxford the associate editor of the Oxford English dictionary and in | :25:42. | :25:46. | |
the studio Quentin Letts. Isn't it one of the strengths of the English | :25:46. | :25:50. | |
language that we keep on adding new words to it, that's what keeps it | :25:50. | :25:54. | |
alive? It's what keeps me in work. Here we are monitoring the language | :25:54. | :25:58. | |
and people have been adding words for political reasons, and for | :25:58. | :26:03. | |
other reasons, for centuries. It's a very creative language. But do | :26:03. | :26:06. | |
you think the pace of modern life and developments, are we also | :26:06. | :26:10. | |
seeing the pace of new words on the up, as well? I think two things | :26:10. | :26:13. | |
have changed, more people are speaking English and the world is | :26:13. | :26:19. | |
much more interconnected, so you might have a sort of political wag | :26:19. | :26:23. | |
decides to coin a word in his newspaper column and it goes around | :26:23. | :26:27. | |
the world so everybody can pick up on it. We are more interconnected | :26:27. | :26:29. | |
and more of us speaking English so that's going to make us more | :26:29. | :26:34. | |
productive of new words. So many words we take for granted now, even | :26:34. | :26:44. | |
OK comes from President van Burin. Chattering classes. Dog whistle | :26:44. | :26:48. | |
politics a few years ago. Bromance just two years ago. It no longer | :26:48. | :26:53. | |
seems to be the case. But these things can acquire a political | :26:53. | :26:58. | |
potency and chillax will probably never again be thought of in | :26:58. | :27:00. | |
Britain without people thinking about David Cameron. It takes us | :27:00. | :27:05. | |
right back to the early days of Cameroonism when he launched his | :27:05. | :27:09. | |
leadership bid for the Conservative Party and we all went to a place | :27:09. | :27:13. | |
where there was aromatherapy music playing and I am not sure it's | :27:13. | :27:18. | |
actually that damaging to him because you could argue that Harald | :27:18. | :27:24. | |
Macmillan chillaxed, he happened to read Trollope. David Cameron | :27:24. | :27:28. | |
allegedly plays computer games. Thank goodness we could have Prime | :27:28. | :27:35. | |
Minister who does do that, rather than bungs mobile phones at the top | :27:35. | :27:40. | |
of stumps. What's to happen before the word gets into the dictionary | :27:40. | :27:47. | |
then? Like chillax. It's online. It's an older word than you might | :27:47. | :27:52. | |
think. What about omni-shambles? have been monitoring that, that's | :27:52. | :27:55. | |
rather newer. We have to collect evidence and see that the word has | :27:55. | :28:03. | |
become established in the language. What should get in? I wish tax cuts. | :28:03. | :28:08. | |
We seem to have forgotten that one. Omni-shambles, I am not sure, it's | :28:08. | :28:13. | |
too long and doesn't seem... I like it. The other word used is | :28:13. | :28:23. | |
:28:23. | :28:30. | ||
unrepeatable. That's not going to get into the dictionary. Stitch and | :28:30. | :28:34. | |
Butch, anyone, any idea about that?? All right, it's a gather of | :28:34. | :28:41. | |
people who knit and gossip at the same time. I am right! | :28:41. | :28:46. | |
I am going to get the knitting tomorrow. We are going to give you | :28:46. | :28:51. | |
the answer to question the -- guess the year. The answer was 2005. | :28:51. | :28:57. | |
Press the button now. What's going to happen now? You disappear. | :28:57. | :29:04. | |
is the winner. Mike Dodsworth from Huddersfield, it's your mug. Thank | :29:04. | :29:08. |