Browse content similar to 16/07/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics. | :00:38. | :00:42. | |
David Cameron and Nick Clegg put on a show of unity as the two leaders | :00:42. | :00:45. | |
announce a �9 billion investment in Britain's rail network, but work | :00:45. | :00:48. | |
won't start for at least two years and Labour say rail passengers face | :00:48. | :00:53. | |
higher fares to pay for it. Preparations for the Olympics reach | :00:53. | :00:56. | |
fever pitch as the first of thousands of athletes arrive in the | :00:56. | :01:00. | |
UK. Boris Johnson says London is ready. | :01:00. | :01:03. | |
Should foreign students studying in the UK be counted in our | :01:03. | :01:07. | |
immigration figures? With net immigration 250,000 per year, we'll | :01:07. | :01:14. | |
debate the issue of student visas. And why are we having such a | :01:14. | :01:17. | |
miserable summer? And can we blame politicians for | :01:17. | :01:22. | |
the endless rain? We have been in this long, long recession and then | :01:22. | :01:27. | |
you have the worst weather on history. | :01:27. | :01:35. | |
No descent summer Nothing to lift you out of the mire. | :01:35. | :01:41. | |
What a miserable pair! We will try and cheer you up. | :01:41. | :01:45. | |
All that in the next hour. And with us for the whole programme today is | :01:45. | :01:48. | |
the cross-bench peer, Jo Valentine, who runs the business organisation | :01:48. | :01:51. | |
London First. Welcome to the Daily Politics. So, with just under two | :01:51. | :01:53. | |
weeks to go, is Britain ready for the Olympics? Boris Johnson | :01:53. | :01:57. | |
certainly thinks so. This is about sport. It is about achievement and | :01:57. | :02:02. | |
effort and competition and supreme human endeavour and I think that's | :02:02. | :02:07. | |
why people are so excited and what's going on now, you speak | :02:07. | :02:12. | |
about the curtain up moment, actually we are at the last moment | :02:12. | :02:20. | |
before curtain up and there is a bit of pre-curtain up for things to | :02:20. | :02:24. | |
talk about. When the opening ceremony ceremony begins I think a | :02:24. | :02:28. | |
lot of these issues that we are discussing will melt away and I | :02:28. | :02:35. | |
think people's excitement at seeing London transform looking wonderful | :02:35. | :02:40. | |
at the moment and in the eye of the world, we will be great indeed. | :02:40. | :02:43. | |
Boris Johnson talking to BBC Breakfast today. | :02:44. | :02:50. | |
Do you agree? Is London ready? Will it be all right on the night? | :02:50. | :02:55. | |
can't predict, but we are doing as much as we can to prepare for it. I | :02:55. | :02:57. | |
think it will be great and I think the mayor and Transport for London | :02:58. | :03:00. | |
have been putting in rehearsal time and thinking through the issues, | :03:00. | :03:06. | |
but none of us us knows how it is going to be. | :03:06. | :03:11. | |
Do you think there has been a sense of shambles because of the recent | :03:12. | :03:16. | |
security and transport problems with the M4 and GS4 on security? | :03:16. | :03:21. | |
have to say, I do agree with Boris. I think we are at the pre-curtain | :03:21. | :03:26. | |
up, nervous phase and there is little blips and the little blips | :03:26. | :03:31. | |
will continue, but we need o keep going and and keep keep preparing. | :03:31. | :03:34. | |
We can't do anything about the weather! Boris Johnson says it is | :03:34. | :03:38. | |
his mission to ensure the �9 billion spent on the Games has a | :03:38. | :03:42. | |
lasting effect. That's crucial, isn't it? Not just in terms of | :03:42. | :03:46. | |
legacy, but how it will impact on Britain? And that's a long game | :03:46. | :03:50. | |
really. We have seen this huge regeneration of the East End of | :03:50. | :03:55. | |
London. We need to make sure that the soft things, the sport, we all | :03:55. | :04:01. | |
keep enthuse astic about sport, we get the jobs in the jobs in the | :04:01. | :04:04. | |
East End and the buildings and making sure the park bleeds out | :04:04. | :04:08. | |
into the wider East End area. Are you confident that will happen? | :04:08. | :04:12. | |
Talking about �9 billion, that's the same as the rail upgrade the | :04:12. | :04:15. | |
Government announced today? It is difficult to put a measure on these | :04:15. | :04:21. | |
thix. What -- things, what the Olympics will do for London, nobody | :04:21. | :04:28. | |
knows until we are past past it. It is tremendous that we have this | :04:28. | :04:31. | |
iconic event. Let's hope it puts London on the map and we have got | :04:31. | :04:39. | |
an opportunity to take advantage of All right. It is time for our quiz. | :04:39. | :04:42. | |
The question for today is, what piece of music has David Cameron | :04:42. | :04:48. | |
said he would like to see as England's National Anthem? Is it | :04:48. | :04:51. | |
Jerusalem, Land of Hope and Glory or Heaven Knows I'm Miserable Now | :04:51. | :04:54. | |
by the Smiths? Yes Yes! Very appropriate! | :04:54. | :04:58. | |
We'll give you the correct answer at the end of the show. Now after | :04:58. | :05:02. | |
their troublesome tangle over Lords reform, the Prime Minister and his | :05:02. | :05:06. | |
Lib Dem deputy are putting on a show of unity today. Pushing their | :05:06. | :05:09. | |
plans for Britain's rail network and claiming it is evidence the | :05:10. | :05:12. | |
coalition can deliver. Nick Clegg and David Cameron say it is the | :05:12. | :05:16. | |
biggest investment snt railways since the age of steam. �9 billion | :05:16. | :05:20. | |
will be invested over a five year period. That includes �5 billion | :05:20. | :05:24. | |
for the completion of current schemes such as Crossrail and | :05:24. | :05:30. | |
Thameslink and �4.2 billion for new projects. This will include a | :05:30. | :05:34. | |
programme of major electification. Over 850 miles of electified track | :05:34. | :05:38. | |
will be added to the network including the line from we had ford | :05:38. | :05:43. | |
to to -- Bedford to Sheffield. There will be upgrade work, in | :05:43. | :05:46. | |
particular the East Coast main line from London to Leeds and Newcastle. | :05:46. | :05:50. | |
However, none of the building work will start until 2014. It is | :05:50. | :05:54. | |
thought the plans could mean big fare rises for passengers. Fares | :05:54. | :05:59. | |
are due to go up by 3% more than inflation in January and the same | :06:00. | :06:03. | |
the following year. Speaking this morning, David Cameron and Nick | :06:03. | :06:06. | |
Clegg said this plan was an essential part of the Government's | :06:06. | :06:13. | |
overall programme. This is just one as aspect of the | :06:13. | :06:16. | |
long-term mission of this coalition Government. The coalition has come | :06:16. | :06:22. | |
into question. Some asking whether it has real momentum for the rest | :06:22. | :06:28. | |
of the Parliament and others asking if it should end? I am I am more | :06:28. | :06:33. | |
committed to making this coalition Government today than I was in May | :06:33. | :06:37. | |
2010 when Nick Clegg and I formed this Government. Above all, that | :06:37. | :06:43. | |
means accepting that there are no simple, quick, easy short cuts | :06:43. | :06:47. | |
which secure instant political popularity. In fact, something that | :06:47. | :06:52. | |
we have accepted in Government at this time we need to put short-term | :06:52. | :06:56. | |
popularity to one side and get on with making the big, long-term | :06:56. | :07:02. | |
reforms and changes that this country so des so desperately needs. | :07:02. | :07:08. | |
Joining us from Leeds is Norman Baker. Here in the studio is the | :07:08. | :07:14. | |
Shadow Transport Secretary, Maria Eagle and Stephen Joseph. | :07:14. | :07:20. | |
Norman Baker, it is not a stimulus for now, is it? That is a bit | :07:20. | :07:25. | |
churlish. We have five year plans for the railways and the present | :07:25. | :07:30. | |
plan ends in 2014. There has been a massive investment | :07:30. | :07:34. | |
programme going on in the railways. Everything that was on the stocks | :07:34. | :07:38. | |
has been taken forward and more besides. This is another batch of | :07:38. | :07:41. | |
investment programmes for the railways. We have got the biggest | :07:41. | :07:45. | |
investment programme going on now than we have had since the 19th | :07:45. | :07:47. | |
century. I suppose what passengers will say, | :07:48. | :07:52. | |
if it is not starting or they are not going to see the benefits for a | :07:52. | :07:55. | |
few years, but they are going to have to pay for it upfront, how | :07:55. | :07:59. | |
much will a passenger expect to pay in fare rises? | :07:59. | :08:03. | |
A lot of investment is going on now. There has been investment decisions | :08:03. | :08:07. | |
taken in the autumn statement and the in 2010 Spending Review. This | :08:07. | :08:13. | |
is the latest of the of the announcements... Sure, but how much | :08:13. | :08:18. | |
will fares go up? We had ten years of above inflation rises under the | :08:19. | :08:23. | |
last Labour Government. We inherited a position where Network | :08:23. | :08:26. | |
Rail was inefficient and what we are doing is driving the | :08:26. | :08:30. | |
inefficiencies out of Network Rail by 30% and that will release money | :08:30. | :08:34. | |
which can be reinvested in the railways and keep fares down. | :08:34. | :08:39. | |
Let's come to the breakdown. Can you tell us How much will come from | :08:39. | :08:42. | |
the taxpayer? We know it will come from that and how much from the | :08:42. | :08:48. | |
efficiency savings you have just set out? Well, that will be a | :08:48. | :08:51. | |
matter for for negotiation negotiation between the Department | :08:52. | :08:59. | |
of Transport and the Treasury. We need to concentrate on today's news. | :08:59. | :09:03. | |
�9.4 billion. Electification of a line to Wales. We inherited a | :09:03. | :09:08. | |
position where Wales is the only country apart from Albania that had | :09:08. | :09:11. | |
no electified railway. This is major stuff and people should be | :09:11. | :09:14. | |
pleased with the investment today. There will be a lot of people | :09:14. | :09:20. | |
people pleased in the industry because they have been enkujing | :09:20. | :09:24. | |
encouraging to do the improvements and many experts think they are | :09:24. | :09:30. | |
more important than HS 2. Will that still be necessary? Of course. We | :09:30. | :09:34. | |
need HS 2 and the investment in the investment in the existing | :09:34. | :09:42. | |
infrastructure.. HS 2 is necessary. We have been successful and the | :09:42. | :09:46. | |
last 15 years, the country has been successful in driving up passenger | :09:46. | :09:51. | |
numbers, 64% up since 1997 that we have to get more capacity. That's | :09:51. | :09:56. | |
good news. Norman Baker stay with us. What's | :09:56. | :10:04. | |
your response, Stephen Joseph. Record numbers of passengers, can't | :10:04. | :10:11. | |
get from Norman Baker the rises that passengers will expect. It is | :10:11. | :10:15. | |
clear that as Norman said there, is good news from the point of view of | :10:15. | :10:19. | |
investment. We wanted to see this electification and the other | :10:19. | :10:24. | |
investments happen, but you are right to say that it seems to be | :10:24. | :10:28. | |
coming on the back of large fare rises and if you look in the small | :10:28. | :10:34. | |
print they talk about more fare rises beyond even the ones planned | :10:34. | :10:40. | |
of RPI plus 3% for each of the next three years, that's a large fares | :10:40. | :10:43. | |
increase and it contrasts with the way in which other countries do | :10:43. | :10:47. | |
this which is they regard this as investment as a national asset and | :10:47. | :10:52. | |
we would want to see this investment coming from taxpayer | :10:52. | :10:56. | |
funding and from borrowing rather than having even more swinging | :10:56. | :10:59. | |
fares rises. The Government will say there isn't | :10:59. | :11:04. | |
the money. Just teen Greening said it is not -- Justine greening said | :11:04. | :11:09. | |
it is not a money tree. On the issue of State owned rail companies | :11:09. | :11:15. | |
bidding to win the the franchises is it right they should get the | :11:16. | :11:21. | |
franchises and use the money to to plough into their railways? More | :11:21. | :11:25. | |
investment for the network, without Government money being provided and | :11:25. | :11:28. | |
the better service for the passenger. The pay the franchise is | :11:28. | :11:32. | |
let is the key point rather than who gets a franchise for each | :11:32. | :11:38. | |
individual train company. Maria Eagle, you must be pleased. | :11:38. | :11:41. | |
These are major upgrades that are going on. Good news for Wales and | :11:41. | :11:45. | |
the north? I am pleased there is investment for the railways, but | :11:45. | :11:48. | |
let's be clear about this. Half of the money that is being announced | :11:48. | :11:52. | |
today is to complete programmes that have been started like | :11:52. | :11:55. | |
Thameslink and Crossrail. You are saying it is an old | :11:55. | :12:00. | |
announcement? There is a lot of reannouncements and a lot of spin. | :12:00. | :12:05. | |
The announcements that aren't completing old arrangements were | :12:05. | :12:11. | |
announced mainly by Andrew Adonis in 2009 2009, and cut by the | :12:11. | :12:13. | |
current Government and have been announced into the next Parliament. | :12:13. | :12:18. | |
You are pleased that it is going to happen? Yes, but let's not be | :12:18. | :12:21. | |
fooled by the charade we have seen today which is more about covering | :12:21. | :12:27. | |
up splits in the coalition than it has been about improving the | :12:27. | :12:31. | |
railways. No spending until after 2014, that does not help get jobs | :12:31. | :12:36. | |
and growth now. Labour started some of these, | :12:36. | :12:40. | |
announced some of the upgrades. Where would Labour get the money | :12:40. | :12:45. | |
from if they weren't putting up fares? Taxpayers, what the current | :12:45. | :12:48. | |
Government are doing, what the current Government is doing, �4 | :12:48. | :12:53. | |
billion goes into the railway, what the current Government is doing, is | :12:53. | :12:57. | |
giving a postdated cheque, it is allowing Network Rail to borrow | :12:57. | :13:01. | |
against assets. A lot of the money will be coming from borrowing by | :13:01. | :13:04. | |
Network Rail. Would you support that? That's | :13:04. | :13:07. | |
something that has been used in the past. It is unsustainable in the | :13:07. | :13:11. | |
long-term and it is a question that you have to ask the Government, how | :13:11. | :13:16. | |
much more money are they going to allow Network Rail to borrow? How | :13:16. | :13:20. | |
much more are they going to be allowed to borrow? Fares going up | :13:20. | :13:25. | |
is a contentious issues, but if the upgrades produce increased | :13:25. | :13:32. | |
efficiency and higher speed trains, will it be worth it? The fare | :13:32. | :13:36. | |
argument is one if you are travelling on the trains, you want | :13:36. | :13:40. | |
to see the quality has gone up. There is an impossible balance | :13:40. | :13:43. | |
which we have been touching on between taxpayers, borrowing and | :13:43. | :13:48. | |
fares. Somebody has to pay for it and we are in an up happy position | :13:48. | :13:54. | |
with the debt we have got in the UK. On the borrowing, I am pro | :13:54. | :13:59. | |
borrowing. If you know you are likely to get economic benefit out | :13:59. | :14:05. | |
of the investment then I think it needs prioritisation and one could | :14:05. | :14:08. | |
go further and ring-fence borrowing into that investment. | :14:08. | :14:12. | |
Can you, if you want to change the structure of the network, can you | :14:12. | :14:15. | |
rule out nationalising the railways? We are looking at trying | :14:15. | :14:18. | |
to get better value for money for the money that goes into the | :14:18. | :14:22. | |
railways. There is no doubt the fragmented structure that we have | :14:22. | :14:27. | |
is leading to extra costs up to �1.2 billion a year extra costs. We | :14:27. | :14:30. | |
have not come to a final decision about how to get better value for | :14:30. | :14:33. | |
money, but saying you are not going to look at the structure of the | :14:33. | :14:37. | |
industry is ignoring a big elephant in the room. We need to make sure | :14:37. | :14:43. | |
we get to get better value out of the money that's been spent. | :14:43. | :14:47. | |
It would be unrealistic, wouldn't it, to imagine you could have the | :14:47. | :14:49. | |
improved railways without passengers and taxpayers coughing | :14:49. | :14:55. | |
up for it? Well, I think, you need to have taxpayers coughing up | :14:55. | :15:01. | |
upfront, but there is a concern which London First shares which is | :15:01. | :15:04. | |
London in the South East in particular and actually the country | :15:04. | :15:07. | |
generally, has the highest fares in Europe and that the fares rises | :15:07. | :15:12. | |
that have been talked about will actually add to that. So there | :15:12. | :15:17. | |
comes a point where there is a competitiveness between London and | :15:17. | :15:21. | |
other world cities about the fares that are coming. We argue actually | :15:21. | :15:25. | |
that some of this investment will end up saving money and that some | :15:25. | :15:29. | |
of the measures that have been talked about are reducing the | :15:29. | :15:33. | |
contribution that taxpayers already make to the network. This is about | :15:33. | :15:36. | |
investment and other countries as I say, regard that as something which | :15:36. | :15:42. | |
the State pays for because there are wider benefits from it even non | :15:42. | :15:51. | |
users benefit from having a good That press conference with David | :15:51. | :16:00. | |
Cameron and Nick Clegg seemed to be more about, a statement about the | :16:00. | :16:06. | |
coalition. It works very well, across departments, between parties, | :16:06. | :16:11. | |
very well. So you are not at your colleagues throats about Lords | :16:11. | :16:17. | |
reform? Of course not. We are two different parties of course but we | :16:17. | :16:22. | |
work very well together, rather better than the last coalition | :16:22. | :16:26. | |
between the Blairites and the Brown writes, I might say. Thank you. | :16:26. | :16:30. | |
What does the 2011 census tell us about England and Wales? In a | :16:30. | :16:33. | |
moment we will be finding out as the Office for National Statistics | :16:33. | :16:37. | |
has just published the data. But why do we need to bother with one | :16:38. | :16:41. | |
at all? Here's a reminder from 1951, with some graphics that we can only | :16:41. | :16:44. | |
dream of producing on the Daily Politics. | :16:44. | :16:49. | |
It is 20 years since we had a census and high time we had some | :16:49. | :16:55. | |
up-to-date facts about ourselves! For instance, how many men of | :16:55. | :17:02. | |
there? How many women? How old? What do we do for a living? So we | :17:02. | :17:08. | |
are having a Stocktake. Reform is left for each household, and the | :17:08. | :17:12. | |
head of the house is responsible for thrilling it in. Take your time | :17:12. | :17:17. | |
and be sure to give the right answer -- for a filling it in. If | :17:17. | :17:23. | |
in doubt, ask the person who does the form for his secrecy. Use the | :17:23. | :17:29. | |
technical name for your job. If you are not sure, ask your employee at. | :17:29. | :17:34. | |
See that someone is at home to handed over on Monday, April 9th. | :17:34. | :17:38. | |
It is strictly confidential and your answers will draw a picture of | :17:38. | :17:44. | |
the nation and its needs. How times have changed! | :17:44. | :17:47. | |
I am joined now by Pete Benton, who is programme director from the | :17:47. | :17:50. | |
Office for National Statistics. He was also deputy director of the | :17:50. | :17:56. | |
2011 census. How many people are living in England and Wales? 56.1 | :17:56. | :18:02. | |
million people, the growth of about 7% since the last census. It is | :18:02. | :18:06. | |
actually the biggest growth we have seen since we started doing them in | :18:06. | :18:12. | |
1801. Is that surprising was that it is slightly more than we had | :18:12. | :18:16. | |
estimated previously but only slightly, it is broadly in line | :18:16. | :18:25. | |
with what we expected for stocks that that might have jumped high | :18:25. | :18:29. | |
enough... We have been estimating the impact | :18:29. | :18:36. | |
of migration so we are broadly in line. One in six of us are over 65 | :18:36. | :18:41. | |
now. So nothing to look forward to. Can you tell us anything about the | :18:41. | :18:45. | |
immigration patterns in the last ten years? The detail will come up | :18:45. | :18:52. | |
later in the year. We are publishing Dijk breakdown of | :18:52. | :18:59. | |
nationally and by local authority - - publishing the breakdown. There | :18:59. | :19:03. | |
are half-a-million more people living in England and Wales than | :19:03. | :19:09. | |
suggested, this has been suggested. Do you expect that? It is very hard | :19:09. | :19:15. | |
to measure and that is why we do a censor's once every ten years. | :19:15. | :19:18. | |
Roughly half of the growth is probably due to migration and the | :19:18. | :19:25. | |
other half is natural change. It is a mixed picture. How useful is this | :19:25. | :19:32. | |
information? Absolutely critical. How much local authorities get to | :19:32. | :19:36. | |
provide public services, how much the health service gets, it is | :19:36. | :19:41. | |
obviously open to question but it is very helpful as a basic starting | :19:41. | :19:46. | |
point. It would be very helpful if we had net migration statistics, | :19:46. | :19:51. | |
and then we could have a factual argument about the net migration | :19:51. | :19:55. | |
target. They don't measure one half of the target so I don't understand | :19:55. | :20:03. | |
that. Are those figures possible to get? More detail later in the years. | :20:03. | :20:07. | |
The census will not tell us the ins and outs. It measures the | :20:08. | :20:11. | |
population now and we need to piece together what that means about the | :20:11. | :20:17. | |
change. Do you think we still need to have a census? Is it something | :20:17. | :20:22. | |
we need to continue to have? Absolutely. It is helpful across a | :20:22. | :20:28. | |
whole range of public services. is a massive exercise, isn't it. | :20:28. | :20:37. | |
sent out 23 million forms last year. We had 35,000 field staff. We have | :20:37. | :20:40. | |
captured and process the data and we had billions of data items | :20:40. | :20:46. | |
literally. Two billion keys were pressed back operators. To get the | :20:46. | :20:52. | |
information out in 50 runs is a huge achievement. A people have a | :20:52. | :20:57. | |
legal obligation to Phil Lane reforms. Yes, and 19 out of 20 | :20:57. | :21:04. | |
people did. -- people have a legal obligation to fill out the forms. | :21:04. | :21:10. | |
Response rates were fantastic in 2011. How will we do it in the | :21:10. | :21:15. | |
future? Every time we do a sense as we take a look at the best way to | :21:15. | :21:21. | |
do it. I read a review in 2003. We are in the middle of the review for | :21:21. | :21:25. | |
the future. It is too soon to say but we are looking at whether we | :21:25. | :21:29. | |
can use information that is already collected. | :21:29. | :21:32. | |
If you are a non-EU student, paying thousands of pounds for the | :21:33. | :21:35. | |
privilege of studying at one of our universities, should you be classed | :21:36. | :21:40. | |
as an immigrant? At the moment you are, but the government is coming | :21:40. | :21:42. | |
under increasing pressure to exclude them from the net inward | :21:42. | :21:46. | |
migration totals. Neat way of earning billions of pounds from | :21:46. | :21:56. | |
:21:56. | :22:02. | ||
foreign scholars, or fiddling the Graduation day at the London School | :22:02. | :22:06. | |
of Economics. They have come from all over the world for this moment | :22:06. | :22:11. | |
and for many it is a proud finale for their time in the UK, but if | :22:11. | :22:15. | |
you have spent years studying in this country, are you a visitor at | :22:15. | :22:20. | |
or immigrant? The official answer is immigrant but it might depend on | :22:20. | :22:25. | |
who you talk to. Rumour has it Downing Street is considering | :22:25. | :22:30. | |
taking a non-EU students out of the Immigration totals. Business and | :22:30. | :22:34. | |
education are for it, the Home Office, dead against. They say it | :22:34. | :22:38. | |
would be fiddling the figures. Funnily enough you would think the | :22:38. | :22:42. | |
Home Office would be keen. The government wants their inward | :22:42. | :22:51. | |
migration to fall below 100,000. It is currently 250,000. 290,000 non- | :22:51. | :22:58. | |
EU students in the UK. Students come here for one or two or three | :22:58. | :23:03. | |
years. We know from figures, from studies at a Home Office have done, | :23:03. | :23:09. | |
that 20% of them never actually leave. The United Nations thinks | :23:09. | :23:13. | |
that is immigration. Of course it is part of immigration and they | :23:13. | :23:16. | |
should be part of the immigration figures and it would be absurd for | :23:16. | :23:21. | |
that not to be. Maybe, but when universities and ministers in | :23:21. | :23:25. | |
business and education are looking at is what overseas students bring | :23:25. | :23:30. | |
to the party's. It is not just the funding they bring but the broader | :23:30. | :23:35. | |
economic benefit in the UK, which is estimated at about �8 billion | :23:35. | :23:41. | |
plan and him and set to increase. This is a major export industry. | :23:41. | :23:46. | |
Those in favour of change say they are just after a level playing | :23:46. | :23:51. | |
field with the British universities. If you come on a temporary basis to | :23:51. | :23:57. | |
study and least, most people would say you are not a migrant, but | :23:57. | :24:01. | |
sadly our compared today's don't see it that way. International | :24:01. | :24:05. | |
students are definitely in the temporary camp. Australia and | :24:05. | :24:09. | |
Canada and the US has been aggressive in marketing themselves | :24:09. | :24:12. | |
to international students and they are pulling ahead and we are | :24:12. | :24:17. | |
getting left behind. Even if that is true, is it a good enough reason | :24:17. | :24:26. | |
for not including non-EU students in the figures? Those who just -- | :24:26. | :24:31. | |
suggests they shouldn't be a two categories. The vested interests, | :24:31. | :24:36. | |
the universities who think it will keep foreign students away. It is | :24:36. | :24:41. | |
not, frankly. If you look at those applying to come this year, it is | :24:41. | :24:47. | |
9% up. Nothing about the immigration debate is simple. | :24:47. | :24:54. | |
Perhaps one day, someone will offer a degree in it. Post grad of course. | :24:54. | :24:58. | |
David Thompson reporting. Jo Valentine is still with us, and we | :24:58. | :25:00. | |
have been joined by the Conservative backbench MP Mark | :25:00. | :25:06. | |
Reckless. Jo Valentine, why do you think there is a move to take | :25:06. | :25:10. | |
students out of the immigration statistics? It is rather confusing | :25:10. | :25:14. | |
because they come for a certain length of time. Nobody comes them | :25:14. | :25:22. | |
out so we don't really know what is going on. -- counts them out. The | :25:22. | :25:26. | |
government meets to know when the students actually leave and at the | :25:26. | :25:31. | |
moment they don't. We heard that 20% of the non-EU students they | :25:31. | :25:36. | |
never leave. I don't believe we have accurate data on that. What do | :25:36. | :25:42. | |
you say to that? 20 dissent is about right I think. How do you | :25:43. | :25:49. | |
know? -- 20 dissent. We have a net migration survey and that is when | :25:50. | :25:59. | |
the statistics are sourced. We do not know precisely the numbers | :25:59. | :26:02. | |
because they do not say why they are leaving. But what the | :26:02. | :26:06. | |
government is doing is taking action on the student rude and the | :26:06. | :26:11. | |
family wrote and business visas, and overall pressing down on | :26:11. | :26:16. | |
immigration. What would your response be if the government did | :26:16. | :26:21. | |
decide to take non-EU students out of those figures? I think that | :26:21. | :26:28. | |
would be a mistake. A do you think they will do that? I have spoken to | :26:28. | :26:33. | |
Damian Green and I think he is closest to it. It would technically | :26:33. | :26:37. | |
be difficult to do. The government has cut out a lot of the abuse of | :26:37. | :26:43. | |
the student visa, so where we should be seeing big reductions in | :26:43. | :26:50. | |
net migration is for the student shall all because of the work they | :26:50. | :26:55. | |
government has done. This is a big export of hours. What damage does | :26:55. | :27:02. | |
this do, restricting the number? Metropolis, it is about perception | :27:02. | :27:08. | |
as much as anything -- the trouble is. We need to be seen as a | :27:08. | :27:13. | |
welcoming country. We want good international students. We want | :27:13. | :27:16. | |
those international students to come here to study and trade with | :27:16. | :27:21. | |
us in the future and add to the cultural life. Anything which sends | :27:21. | :27:25. | |
the message that we are not as welcome as we were for students, | :27:25. | :27:29. | |
and indeed more than half of the current students are saying they | :27:29. | :27:37. | |
would not recommend the UK as a place to come, that was an NUS dead | :27:37. | :27:41. | |
-- survey, that is the last thing we want. You don't want to cut off | :27:41. | :27:46. | |
the supply of foreign money coming into the country. This section is | :27:46. | :27:51. | |
an issue. I would ask Jo Valentine not to talk down the UK in this | :27:51. | :27:55. | |
area because I think the government has brought him some sensible | :27:55. | :28:00. | |
reforms, but people are coming for a degree at a recognised university | :28:00. | :28:04. | |
and they can do that. They will still be allowed to stay on if they | :28:04. | :28:10. | |
get a graduate job paying 20,000 or more. No where else apart from | :28:10. | :28:15. | |
Australia do you do that, where you come some way to university and you | :28:15. | :28:20. | |
are allowed to join the labour market after you finish your degree. | :28:20. | :28:24. | |
But there is a lot of anecdotal evidence from foreign students | :28:24. | :28:28. | |
saying either they don't feel welcome all it is much difficult to | :28:28. | :28:34. | |
come here. Even Vince Cable has sympathies lying in that direction. | :28:34. | :28:38. | |
It should be more difficult to come here because under the previous | :28:38. | :28:44. | |
government, it was a gaping hole in the immigration system. Vast | :28:44. | :28:48. | |
numbers were coming, either not to study or to work rather than to | :28:48. | :28:53. | |
study, so tightening that up and focusing on universities, I think | :28:53. | :28:58. | |
that is the right policy. I think the Home Office data needs to be a | :28:58. | :29:03. | |
lot smarter than it currently is. We cannot differentiate between a | :29:03. | :29:10. | |
good student and a bogus student. We are getting 5% of the visitors | :29:10. | :29:15. | |
of Chinese students as the rest of Europe. That is because we have a | :29:15. | :29:20. | |
very clunky system which does not differentiate between somebody | :29:20. | :29:23. | |
trying to disappear into the undergrowth and a high-spending to | :29:23. | :29:29. | |
rest. A using a sledgehammer to crack a nut. We have our own border | :29:29. | :29:36. | |
controls. I do not want the EU to take over our border controls. We | :29:36. | :29:40. | |
hear from universities and business but I want to speak for my | :29:40. | :29:45. | |
constituents, who feel that for too long, net immigration at 200,000 a | :29:45. | :29:50. | |
year, they want to see it back to where it was when we had a | :29:50. | :29:55. | |
Conservative government and I think we should keep that promise. Do you | :29:55. | :30:00. | |
suppose the idea of a migration cap completely? The problem is we have | :30:00. | :30:07. | |
free migration within Europe. The vast majority come from there. I | :30:07. | :30:12. | |
respected government's desire to regulate migration but do we need | :30:12. | :30:18. | |
to get cleverer at it, we need to get people who add value, and we | :30:18. | :30:22. | |
will be getting a lot more income into the UK if we allow migration | :30:22. | :30:28. | |
to come in at the current 250,000 level for the future. We July | :30:28. | :30:36. | |
Britain to sign up to border-free control? I do not think that is | :30:36. | :30:42. | |
practical. If they are trying to go to continental Europe, the Chinese, | :30:42. | :30:47. | |
I hope they would just be applied once, and then behind the scenes we | :30:47. | :30:51. | |
can see what documents are processed. I would like to see them | :30:51. | :30:56. | |
able to apply in their own language other than English. Do you think | :30:56. | :31:00. | |
the government is going to hit its net migration target of tens of | :31:00. | :31:06. | |
thousands by the next election? I hope it will be. I think it may | :31:06. | :31:10. | |
be possible. We want to see a significant reduction in the net | :31:10. | :31:16. | |
migration figure in the next few quarters. We want to see the | :31:16. | :31:19. | |
reduction in student visas come through to the net migration | :31:19. | :31:24. | |
figures and we have to keep bearing down on all channels. I am | :31:24. | :31:27. | |
concerned that has study work is open to any graduate but the | :31:27. | :31:36. | |
government has done a lot of work But non-EU immigration is 250,000. | :31:36. | :31:41. | |
If you took the students out of it, you might get closer? I am not sure | :31:42. | :31:45. | |
if that's right because we are doing a lot to bring down the | :31:45. | :31:48. | |
student numbers. Do you agree with the Home Office that it would be | :31:48. | :31:52. | |
fiddling the figures if the Government did that? I don't think | :31:52. | :31:55. | |
we should do it because it would be fiddling the figures, but the | :31:55. | :31:59. | |
students are here for several years. Many of them stay on after they | :31:59. | :32:05. | |
have finished their education. My constituents want to see the | :32:05. | :32:08. | |
overall numbers reduced to tens of thousands a year and not hundreds | :32:08. | :32:13. | |
and hundreds of thousands as we saw in the previous Government. | :32:13. | :32:22. | |
Thank you very much. Even though Parliament breaks up | :32:22. | :32:25. | |
for the summer tomorrow there's still a lot going on in the world | :32:25. | :32:27. | |
of politics. Later today, the Treasury Select Committee is taking | :32:28. | :32:30. | |
further evidence on the LIBOR fixing scandal, they'll hear from | :32:30. | :32:33. | |
amongst others Lord Turner, who is head of the Financial Services | :32:33. | :32:35. | |
Authority. On Tuesday, Nick Buckles, the Chief Executive of G4S can | :32:36. | :32:39. | |
expect a rather uncomfortable time in front of the Home Affairs Select | :32:39. | :32:42. | |
Committee, MPs will be grilling him to find out just where it went | :32:42. | :32:46. | |
wrong recruiting security staff. There will be no rest for the | :32:46. | :32:49. | |
coalition leadership when Parliament breaks up. Nick Clegg | :32:49. | :32:52. | |
and David Cameron face a fraught summer trying to work out a | :32:52. | :33:01. | |
compromise on Lords reform. Well no easy task! Joining me now are the | :33:01. | :33:03. | |
Mirror's Kevin Maguire and Pippa Crerar from the Evening Standard. | :33:03. | :33:06. | |
Welcome to both of you. Kevin Maguire, yes, we have got Lord | :33:06. | :33:10. | |
Turner in front of the Treasury Select Committee. Is there going to | :33:10. | :33:14. | |
be a vote on the make-up of the committee holding the banking | :33:14. | :33:21. | |
inquiry and there will be noticeable absences? Yes. A former | :33:21. | :33:24. | |
banker or she worked in a financial services industry and admitted they | :33:24. | :33:29. | |
never got to grips with Bob Diamond and John Mann who led the charge | :33:29. | :33:32. | |
all the way. There is a lot of noses which have been put out of | :33:32. | :33:36. | |
join and public support within both the main political parties for | :33:36. | :33:39. | |
widening who is on the commission. So it is a fractious committee at | :33:39. | :33:43. | |
the moment. Will it do the job that's required? | :33:43. | :33:48. | |
Well, what is that job? Nobody is sure. But if there is a row over | :33:48. | :33:52. | |
the composition it will make its task for difficult and I am sure | :33:53. | :33:58. | |
Andrew Tyrie and the others did this election with the best of | :33:58. | :34:01. | |
intentions and involved other people, however, there is a big | :34:01. | :34:06. | |
question mark against who is on and particularly who isn't. And who is | :34:07. | :34:16. | |
:34:17. | :34:17. | ||
off. Pipa, what about this discrepancy | :34:17. | :34:20. | |
with Theresa May and the Home Office and when they did know that | :34:20. | :34:28. | |
they weren't going to get the 3 3,500 people? Boris Johnson let the | :34:28. | :34:31. | |
cat out of the bag by suggesting that Theresa May may have known | :34:32. | :34:35. | |
sooner than she admitted to. So we will be wanting to get to the | :34:35. | :34:39. | |
bottom of that later today. It has been terrible for them. The one | :34:39. | :34:43. | |
thing with the Olympics that has to be right in the public's minds is | :34:44. | :34:48. | |
security and the problems with this are just really damaging top London, | :34:48. | :34:52. | |
London's reputation and the coalition's reputation around the | :34:52. | :34:56. | |
world and that's bad news. And it will have long reaching | :34:56. | :34:59. | |
ramifications particularly as G4 are the private security firm who | :34:59. | :35:04. | |
are up for contract, I think it is nine private prisons and several | :35:04. | :35:10. | |
police forces, they have dn dropped by by -- been dropped by Surrey | :35:10. | :35:13. | |
Police and West Midlands could follow suit. | :35:13. | :35:18. | |
What about it being described by Jeremy Hunt that it was a hitch and | :35:18. | :35:23. | |
mistakes were made. Do you think that's an underat the same time? -- | :35:23. | :35:27. | |
under statement? The soldiers will be there to show you are you are | :35:27. | :35:31. | |
seats. If I was a member of the armed forces having to give up my | :35:31. | :35:35. | |
holiday with the prospect of my regiment being reduced in size, I | :35:35. | :35:40. | |
wouldn't be that happy even if I got to see a bit of the athletics. | :35:40. | :35:44. | |
Theresa May has been called to the House to be questioned. More about | :35:44. | :35:48. | |
GS4 this afternoon. That will keep us busy! | :35:48. | :35:53. | |
Moving on to the rail announcement, it turned into something of a | :35:53. | :35:59. | |
restating of coalition vow, I felt, but is there a feeling that | :35:59. | :36:04. | |
although MPs on both sides of the coalition maybe restless, the | :36:04. | :36:12. | |
leadership, everything is is hunky- dory at the top? It was back to the | :36:12. | :36:17. | |
Rose Garden. If I was Samantha or Miriam, I would be worried! They | :36:17. | :36:21. | |
could be off this summer! Are they taking their parties with them. I | :36:21. | :36:26. | |
have got my my doubts about that and we saw it with Gordon Brown and | :36:26. | :36:31. | |
Tony Blair. You say, "Come on, everybody, this way, we're all | :36:31. | :36:36. | |
together and they look over their shoulders and there is very few | :36:36. | :36:41. | |
people following them. The difficulties have not gone away | :36:41. | :36:45. | |
around House of Lords Reform. There will have to be a compromise, these | :36:45. | :36:50. | |
current plans are dead, it is dead as a dodo and it is finished and it | :36:50. | :36:55. | |
is gone. We got that! Can they take their parties with them? I don't | :36:55. | :37:00. | |
see the coalition falling apart, but it has become unstable and it | :37:00. | :37:04. | |
was sold at the beginning all about offering Britain a stable | :37:04. | :37:10. | |
Government. Well, it is unstable and they cannot agree on a lot of | :37:10. | :37:11. | |
important things other than austerity. | :37:11. | :37:19. | |
Relations between MPs of either party have plummeted to the lowest | :37:19. | :37:25. | |
depths and that isn't good for the future of the Government. | :37:25. | :37:29. | |
Well, we have got three MPs, two from the coalition. We will see if | :37:29. | :37:35. | |
their manage to keep their hands by their sides. It could be a busy | :37:35. | :37:41. | |
summer. Do you think there is a chance of persuading enough Tory | :37:41. | :37:45. | |
rebels to come on and vote through a timetable motion? That's what | :37:45. | :37:49. | |
they are hoping for. If a timetable motion got defeated, there is | :37:49. | :37:54. | |
closure motions that you could use to get past the filler bustering. | :37:54. | :37:59. | |
You have senior Tory MPs such as Graham Brady suggesting that any | :37:59. | :38:03. | |
element of an elected House would undermine the authorities of the | :38:03. | :38:06. | |
House of Commons and the sentiment is so strong that David Cameron, | :38:06. | :38:12. | |
even fe spends all summer, wing and wining and and dining and getting | :38:12. | :38:17. | |
to to know the Lords rebels will find it difficult to win them over. | :38:17. | :38:21. | |
Labour's position has to be looked at because you know, there isn't an | :38:21. | :38:24. | |
easy choice, is there? Ed Miliband has to think hard, doesn't he, | :38:24. | :38:29. | |
before he continues down that road of scuppering or seeming to help | :38:29. | :38:33. | |
scupper Lords Reform, an issue close to Lib Dem hearts if he wants | :38:33. | :38:37. | |
to go in coalition with them? think he is happy for it to fail | :38:37. | :38:42. | |
this time, but he does not want to be seen to wield the dagger and he | :38:42. | :38:47. | |
has a hidden problem, there are only 25 Labour MPs who rebelled, | :38:47. | :38:53. | |
but there are dozen more who say when it comes to the crunch, they | :38:53. | :38:58. | |
will not vote for Lords Reform, they think that voting for Lords | :38:58. | :39:01. | |
Reform will help Nick Clegg and their hatred of Nick Clegg and it | :39:01. | :39:06. | |
is a hatred, they feel he betrayed Labour and they were sick when he | :39:06. | :39:11. | |
used to pose to a leader of the a party to the left of Labour and he | :39:11. | :39:14. | |
goes into coalition, that means they will not back it when push | :39:14. | :39:23. | |
comes to shove. And for the rest of the programme | :39:23. | :39:25. | |
I've been joined by the Labour MP, Seema Malhotra, Conservative | :39:25. | :39:28. | |
backbencher Rory Stewart and Duncan Hames for the Liberal Democrats. | :39:28. | :39:30. | |
Welcome to the Daily Politics. It doesn't seem to be any hatred | :39:30. | :39:33. | |
between you just yet. Rory, over the weekend we heard comments from | :39:33. | :39:37. | |
within the Tory Party, Graham Brady warning the coalition will fracture | :39:38. | :39:43. | |
before 2015. Do you agree? No, I don't. I think what you may see in | :39:43. | :39:46. | |
the last year is the parties beginning to define themselves | :39:46. | :39:49. | |
ready for the next election. It is difficult. We have been through a | :39:49. | :39:52. | |
tricky time, but it is about relationships and it is about | :39:52. | :39:55. | |
communication, it is about managing how two different parties relate to | :39:55. | :39:59. | |
each other. Do you recognise the | :39:59. | :40:02. | |
characterisation from our hacks saying they have never seen such | :40:02. | :40:05. | |
hatred between Liberal Democrats and Tories, not just over Lords | :40:05. | :40:10. | |
Reform, but over the state of the coalition? I need to bring in | :40:10. | :40:13. | |
Duncan. Well, Rory and I get on very well. | :40:13. | :40:16. | |
We were discussing our summer holiday plans. | :40:16. | :40:21. | |
I am delighted for both of you! Is there that level of dislike now? | :40:21. | :40:28. | |
Well, there is a lot of frustration. It is evident after two two years, | :40:28. | :40:32. | |
the areas we don't agree, but we did have an agreement about what we | :40:32. | :40:41. | |
would achieve in Government. What we would set out to achieve. We can | :40:41. | :40:43. | |
only govern if we are prepared to work together and there is a | :40:43. | :40:46. | |
determination to do that. Liberal Democrats in the coalition | :40:46. | :40:49. | |
Government are able to deliver policies like cutting taxes for the | :40:49. | :40:55. | |
lowest paid people in this country. The Conservatives won't help you | :40:55. | :41:00. | |
deliver on Lords Reform. Liam Fox, a former Cabinet Minister says the | :41:00. | :41:04. | |
Lib Dems only make up one sixth of the coalition, so you can't expect | :41:04. | :41:08. | |
to get everything you want. accept we can't get everything we | :41:08. | :41:12. | |
want. The coalition isn't what we would have wanted by any means. | :41:12. | :41:17. | |
What do you say to that? Tory MPs, we have had a string of senior | :41:17. | :41:20. | |
Liberal Democrats saying, "Can you expect Lib Dem MPs to walk with the | :41:20. | :41:23. | |
Government in the division lobbies and vote for their seats to be | :41:23. | :41:31. | |
scrapped in the boundary review when Tory MPs haven't delivered on | :41:31. | :41:39. | |
Lords Reform?". I am a Lords rebel. This is about communication. These | :41:39. | :41:43. | |
issues are deep in our parties. The Conservative Party feels deeply | :41:43. | :41:47. | |
about the constitution in a particular way. Duncan feels deeply | :41:47. | :41:50. | |
about the constitution in a different way. We disagree, | :41:50. | :41:53. | |
strongly. You can't have a relationship whether it is a | :41:53. | :41:57. | |
marriage or a coalition where you say, "I'm going to force you to do | :41:57. | :42:00. | |
something you hate in return for you doing something I hate.". | :42:00. | :42:05. | |
In terms of what Labour is doing, is this what is going on behindted | :42:05. | :42:09. | |
behind the scenes, Ed Miliband trying to woo the Liberal | :42:09. | :42:12. | |
Democrats? Is this the opportunity to get them on side ahead of the | :42:12. | :42:15. | |
next election I don't think so. This is something that is clear | :42:15. | :42:19. | |
about Labour's position we are saying that the House of Lords | :42:19. | :42:25. | |
Reform needs to go beyond petty politics. This is important for the | :42:25. | :42:28. | |
way we run our country and we want to see a referendum and no back | :42:28. | :42:32. | |
room deals and an open and clear debate that people can participate | :42:32. | :42:39. | |
in. I think this is a real turning point for the coalition because up | :42:39. | :42:43. | |
until now, increasing the marriage analogy, the honeymoon period is | :42:43. | :42:48. | |
over and there is a choice. I felt that looking at David Cameron | :42:48. | :42:53. | |
yesterday in the Sunday Times piece it was an over ture to the Liberal | :42:53. | :42:56. | |
Democrats more than it was to Tory rebels. And there is the fault line | :42:56. | :42:58. | |
is emerging between the Conservatives and the Liberal | :42:58. | :43:02. | |
Democrats. Does David Cameron need to do to | :43:02. | :43:07. | |
win over rebels like yourself? as rebels need to do more to | :43:07. | :43:12. | |
communicate. The Government needs to do more to communicate. I don't | :43:12. | :43:16. | |
think it is faithal. There are things we disagree and we are | :43:16. | :43:18. | |
different parties, different histories and different parties, it | :43:18. | :43:22. | |
would be ludicrous if we didn't disagree. We are communicating and | :43:23. | :43:27. | |
doing the important things on the economy above all. | :43:27. | :43:30. | |
The come pen tators are saying David Cameron is in trouble. David | :43:30. | :43:34. | |
Cameron is struggling to recapture his authority and confidence. Calls | :43:34. | :43:40. | |
for George Osborne to be moved out of the of the teshry. Do you agree | :43:40. | :43:44. | |
with think of these? We believe in an independent Parliament. The fact | :43:44. | :43:48. | |
that out of 340 divisions there is one in which 92 people rebel | :43:48. | :43:52. | |
shouldn't be the crisis, that ends the world. People who believe in | :43:52. | :43:55. | |
independent parliaments should believe and there is a possibility | :43:55. | :43:58. | |
of days greement, that shouldn't mean the collapse of the coalition, | :43:58. | :44:01. | |
the Prime Minister and the Chancellor and I think it means web | :44:01. | :44:06. | |
get on while disagreeing. We have got the summer to regroup. | :44:06. | :44:09. | |
Do you remember the Government's cap on benefits? That's the plan to | :44:09. | :44:12. | |
stop households from claiming more than �26,000 in benefits per year. | :44:12. | :44:15. | |
Well, the cap hasn't yet come into force, but already the Work and | :44:15. | :44:18. | |
Pensions Secretary, Iain Duncan Smith is claiming the policy is a | :44:18. | :44:23. | |
success. He has released figures this morning which show that 1,700 | :44:23. | :44:26. | |
people who would have been affected by the cap, which comes into force | :44:26. | :44:33. | |
next year, have now started working. How have they worked those figures | :44:33. | :44:39. | |
out? They have written to everybody affected by the benefits cap. In | :44:39. | :44:42. | |
Penrith, we have written to 82 people people we think who are | :44:42. | :44:46. | |
affected and those people, they get three telephone calls and a letter | :44:46. | :44:50. | |
and they get in touch in order to get support to help them get into | :44:50. | :44:53. | |
work if they are worried about the benefits cap m | :44:53. | :44:58. | |
They have managed to compile figures from people who were claim | :44:58. | :45:01. | |
beyond the �26,000 and who are not, even though it is ahead of the cap | :45:02. | :45:07. | |
coming in in.? They will continue to get the money until 2013, but | :45:07. | :45:11. | |
they are warning them that they might not longer continue to see | :45:11. | :45:19. | |
the money and offering them help to move on. | :45:19. | :45:23. | |
1300 people have stopped claiming? They come down below the benefits | :45:23. | :45:28. | |
cap. If the cap was lowered, you would save more money and force | :45:28. | :45:38. | |
:45:38. | :45:38. | ||
What we have tried to do is choose a number that reflects the average | :45:38. | :45:43. | |
income of the country. We disagreed with Labour because we believe that | :45:43. | :45:47. | |
people earning more than the average income of working people in | :45:47. | :45:52. | |
this country should not got any benefits. We have chosen the | :45:52. | :46:00. | |
average as the cat. Even though some Tory MPs have figured a number | :46:00. | :46:08. | |
of 20,000? It is working. There will be people seeking work all the | :46:08. | :46:13. | |
time and going back to work. What is fundamental and Labour have been | :46:13. | :46:18. | |
supportive of the benefit cap but saying it needs to be done in a | :46:18. | :46:24. | |
different way, taking awareness of child poverty. We see it there is a | :46:24. | :46:29. | |
crisis, long-term youth unemployment, a six-year | :46:29. | :46:34. | |
unemployment high... But do you support the cat being �26,000 a | :46:34. | :46:42. | |
year? There me to be variations. Labour has asked about a regional | :46:42. | :46:47. | |
housing benefit cap, and do you determine that independently, | :46:47. | :46:51. | |
having a commission that recognises that housing costs may be cheaper | :46:51. | :46:55. | |
in different parts of the country. Absolutely everybody is in support | :46:55. | :47:00. | |
of people going back to work. it is not the same as supporting a | :47:00. | :47:05. | |
cap, which is very popular in the country and is obviously working. | :47:05. | :47:09. | |
Labour supports the cap but would like to see regional variation, CU | :47:10. | :47:15. | |
would be happy for families in Liverpool and Glasgow to be able to | :47:15. | :47:19. | |
claim less than in your London constituency? We need to look at | :47:19. | :47:24. | |
what the government is not telling you. The government is not saying | :47:24. | :47:29. | |
that of the 56,000 families affected, over 29,000 have over | :47:30. | :47:34. | |
four children. We have to see what the impact will be on child poverty | :47:34. | :47:39. | |
and other social issues. Are the Liberal Democrats completely at | :47:39. | :47:43. | |
ease with the cap and the effect it will have one large families | :47:43. | :47:47. | |
squares match I voted for their benefits cat. But not all your | :47:48. | :47:55. | |
colleagues did. No. But the proposals in that Bill were amended | :47:55. | :47:59. | |
so people in the support group, people who are so ill that they | :47:59. | :48:03. | |
cannot reasonably hope to go back to work, they are excluded from the | :48:03. | :48:08. | |
benefit cap, and I think that is a way that we were able to take a | :48:08. | :48:12. | |
policy that was Conservative invention to make it Seren, so we | :48:12. | :48:19. | |
could have confidence in it. there is speculation, the measure | :48:19. | :48:24. | |
will affect large families and that would impact 200,000 children. Are | :48:24. | :48:29. | |
you happy with that? I understand that is a consequence because those | :48:29. | :48:34. | |
families got in receipt of the largest amount of benefits. Our | :48:34. | :48:37. | |
concern was the real way for them to raise their living standards was | :48:38. | :48:42. | |
to get into work, and that this policy does not help those people | :48:42. | :48:49. | |
who were not able to physically go to work, which is why we secured | :48:49. | :48:54. | |
the exemption for the Support Group, which I was proud to do. How many | :48:54. | :49:01. | |
households are affected? In your constituency, none I suppose. | :49:01. | :49:07. | |
have 82... Sorry, we have eight. was going to say! I have not seen | :49:07. | :49:12. | |
my figure in Wiltshire. We have won a council covering several | :49:12. | :49:19. | |
constituencies. In your area and, quite a few. Yes, and we have | :49:19. | :49:23. | |
12,000 on the waiting-list for housing in Hounslow so this issue | :49:23. | :49:26. | |
will have wider ramifications in terms of its impacts. | :49:26. | :49:30. | |
It's coming to the end of the show and we've got a few minutes left so | :49:30. | :49:34. | |
what shall we talk about? I know, the weather! Yes, it's been a | :49:34. | :49:37. | |
pretty miserable summer so far. So, what is all this rain doing to the | :49:38. | :49:39. | |
national mood? Giles has been finding out. | :49:40. | :49:46. | |
# Rainy days and Monday's always get me down #. | :49:46. | :49:56. | |
:49:56. | :49:56. | ||
How does the weather make you feel? LAUGHTER. Depressed. I am from | :49:56. | :50:04. | |
Israel, it is much hotter there. We get used to it. The British summer! | :50:04. | :50:08. | |
We have been in this long recession and then you have the worst weather | :50:08. | :50:15. | |
in history. No decency. Nothing to lift you out of the mire! For this | :50:15. | :50:20. | |
country at this time, and the Olympics, everybody should be happy. | :50:20. | :50:25. | |
It is something to make us smile. It will never happen again in our | :50:25. | :50:28. | |
lifetime so blow the weather, we are the British and we will get | :50:28. | :50:35. | |
through it! If I compare it to the war in Afghanistan, it is not a | :50:35. | :50:40. | |
major issues. It would be nice to have a bit of sunshine. It makes | :50:40. | :50:45. | |
you laugh that they spend all this money trying to get fake rain in | :50:45. | :50:48. | |
Wembley for the Olympics and we will get the real stuff! It is | :50:49. | :50:58. | |
:50:59. | :51:04. | ||
Giles Dilnot and the view of some Londoners. So are we ever going to | :51:04. | :51:09. | |
get our summer? We can talk now to Laura Tobin in the BBC Weather | :51:09. | :51:17. | |
Centre. Will we ever get a summer? It is the million dollar question. | :51:17. | :51:21. | |
The long-range forecast suggests that there is no prolonged dry, hot, | :51:21. | :51:27. | |
sunny spell in the forecast. But there may be a brief glimmer at the | :51:27. | :51:31. | |
end of the tunnel. We are quietly optimistic that within the next | :51:32. | :51:36. | |
couple of weeks, things will become a little more settled, a little | :51:36. | :51:43. | |
less wet. Why has it been so bad? It is to do with the jet stream. We | :51:43. | :51:48. | |
have been talking about it for quite a while. This is a fast | :51:48. | :51:53. | |
moving band of their high up in the atmosphere and it drags the weather | :51:53. | :51:58. | |
fronts from the United States the right to ask. In a normal summer, | :51:58. | :52:02. | |
the jet stream should be to our North Sea. Keeping the wet and | :52:02. | :52:08. | |
windy weather across small north- western areas. This year, the jet | :52:08. | :52:12. | |
stream has been to the south, keeping six sessions of weather | :52:12. | :52:21. | |
What about our neighbours? Why aren't they getting it, especially | :52:21. | :52:26. | |
in northern Europe? For they are lucky because they are on the other | :52:26. | :52:31. | |
side of the jet stream. They are on the warm side of things. They have | :52:31. | :52:37. | |
had high pressure in eastern Europe, and across eastern parts of America. | :52:37. | :52:40. | |
Where we have high pressure around the globe, we have had some | :52:41. | :52:46. | |
excessive heat conditions. One many people that have been devastating. | :52:46. | :52:50. | |
Of course. Who can we blame for pushing the jet stream that far | :52:50. | :52:56. | |
south? At the moment, the main thing is the fact we have got the | :52:56. | :53:00. | |
blocked area of high pressure in the States, pushing their jet | :53:00. | :53:07. | |
stream north. There is also minute discussion as scientists will have | :53:07. | :53:11. | |
around El Nino, climate change and the Arctic ice as well. Many | :53:11. | :53:21. | |
:53:21. | :53:24. | ||
Duncan Hames, experts have begun to blame melting ice. Is there any | :53:24. | :53:28. | |
evidence of this? I don't know if we can definitively say the | :53:28. | :53:31. | |
position of the jet stream this year it is to do with climate | :53:31. | :53:36. | |
change but it is a timely reminder that we normally enjoy better | :53:36. | :53:40. | |
weather in the summer than our latitude would entitle us to | :53:40. | :53:43. | |
because of this jet stream, and that means the climate in Britain | :53:43. | :53:49. | |
is very fragile and if things like ice melting from the Greenland | :53:49. | :53:52. | |
causes temperature changes which leads to the jet stream moving | :53:52. | :53:57. | |
slightly, that could have a very big effect on us. Soon you are | :53:57. | :54:02. | |
saying we will have more of this? Has the bad weather affected the | :54:02. | :54:07. | |
mood in House of Commons? I think we have had more to affect the mood | :54:07. | :54:12. | |
than the weather! We don't get to go outside very much! It affects me | :54:12. | :54:17. | |
deeply because I have undertaken to walk 100 miles every week through | :54:17. | :54:21. | |
my constituency in the next few weeks, so why will be doing it with | :54:21. | :54:27. | |
a big umbrella. But the weather in your constituency is probably not | :54:27. | :54:33. | |
as fine as down south or is it noticeably worse? It is! It is | :54:33. | :54:37. | |
definitely colder. I could not believe I was in July yesterday and | :54:38. | :54:43. | |
the thought I have 600 miles to go... We cannot blame the | :54:43. | :54:47. | |
government for this! Always blame the government for everything, if | :54:47. | :54:57. | |
:54:57. | :55:00. | ||
in any doubt. She is staying quiet! What about the Olympics? If it | :55:00. | :55:06. | |
continues to reign over the Olympics, will its damage it? | :55:06. | :55:10. | |
suggest people watched the swimming and diving. And maybe the velodrome. | :55:10. | :55:15. | |
I don't think it will dampen spirits. One thing that is positive | :55:15. | :55:18. | |
about the Olympics is that everybody seems to be excited about | :55:18. | :55:25. | |
it. You don't think the weather will put people off coming here? | :55:25. | :55:32. | |
When we had a torch coming through, we have the rain lashing and we had | :55:32. | :55:38. | |
nearly double the population of the town watching good torch procession. | :55:38. | :55:42. | |
There is a serious point about preparations if we are going to | :55:42. | :55:47. | |
have more flash flooding and the sort of weather that has blighted | :55:47. | :55:52. | |
your constituency. Should the government be doing more? We have | :55:52. | :55:56. | |
done a big thing, we have changed the insurance situation. It is | :55:56. | :56:01. | |
difficult to get flood insurance and we are on the cusp of a big | :56:01. | :56:05. | |
deal with insurers that everybody should be able to get decent flood | :56:05. | :56:09. | |
insurance. We have had other great schemes, communities working with | :56:09. | :56:14. | |
government to get flood defences. Labour has been calling for an | :56:14. | :56:19. | |
injection of cash to help the fly- tipped areas, particularly in the | :56:19. | :56:24. | |
north-west and the Midlands. -- a flood hit areas. And for any | :56:24. | :56:29. | |
development that you have, you should plan for where rainwater | :56:29. | :56:33. | |
might growth. That has been lacking, in terms of natural defences, water | :56:33. | :56:39. | |
being able to drain away so we do not see the floods we have seen. | :56:39. | :56:45. | |
Should the government be planning now for future years? We must plan | :56:46. | :56:49. | |
for the future but part of that planning must be about response | :56:49. | :56:54. | |
because when you have flooding and the results of very heavy rain full | :56:54. | :57:03. | |
initial periodof time, that causes problems. Traditional programmes of | :57:03. | :57:07. | |
projects like the Thames barrier, those projects would do nothing to | :57:07. | :57:11. | |
help those communities say we need to make sure we have a good | :57:11. | :57:15. | |
response in place ready for when these events inevitably happen. | :57:15. | :57:20. | |
what sort of response should that be? About how local service | :57:20. | :57:23. | |
providers and people in the community can look after people | :57:23. | :57:30. | |
that may find themselves excluded, and so that people know not to take | :57:30. | :57:35. | |
dangerous chances. An example from been my constituency, we have flood | :57:35. | :57:40. | |
wardens, everybody gets a text message, people now know how to | :57:40. | :57:45. | |
evacuate and we have learnt this painfully. We are getting better. | :57:45. | :57:48. | |
Mountain rescue has been amazing in their support. | :57:48. | :57:52. | |
There is just time before we go to find out the answer to our quiz. | :57:52. | :57:56. | |
The question today was: What piece of music has David Cameron said he | :57:56. | :58:06. | |
:58:06. | :58:15. | ||
would like to see as England's Or Heaven Knows I'm Miserable Now | :58:15. | :58:25. | |
:58:25. | :58:32. | ||
I will not make all of using a rendition but can you tell me what | :58:32. | :58:40. | |
the right answer is? Jerusalem. Jerusalem. The carpenters, rainy | :58:40. | :58:46. | |
days on Mondays. That is not on the list! You are absolutely right. | :58:46. | :58:48. | |
Jerusalem. That's all for today. Thanks to | :58:48. | :58:51. |