Browse content similar to 13/07/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Afternoon folks, welcome to the Daily Politics. Details emerge of | :00:42. | :00:44. | |
the Parliamentary Commission into Banking Standards this morning, and | :00:44. | :00:47. | |
one member of the Treasury Select Committee has already branded it a | :00:47. | :00:51. | |
"whitewash". We'll have the latest from Westminster. | :00:51. | :00:54. | |
Almost a year on from the riots - the government announce plans to | :00:54. | :00:57. | |
speed up the courts process. We'll ask the criminal justice minister | :00:57. | :01:01. | |
how it will work and whether it will serve or rush justice. | :01:01. | :01:04. | |
And we'll ask the question that really matters to voters - will the | :01:04. | :01:07. | |
gloomy economic weather ever improve? | :01:07. | :01:11. | |
And it's 50 years since this kindly looking gentleman did in seven of | :01:11. | :01:14. | |
his cabinet colleagues. We'll remember Harold Macmillan and the | :01:14. | :01:24. | |
:01:24. | :01:32. | ||
All that in the next hour. And senses it is the final programme | :01:32. | :01:40. | |
from the poor September -- until September, we have spared no | :01:40. | :01:50. | |
expense. We have paid for Allister Heath, and Jackie Ashley. You don't | :01:50. | :01:55. | |
get that on Newsnight! Let's start with that Parliamentary Commission | :01:55. | :01:58. | |
on Banking Standards formed amid some controversy in the wake of the | :01:58. | :02:03. | |
LIBOR scandal. We have some detail of what it will look at and who | :02:03. | :02:09. | |
will do the looking. Let's go over to Carole Walker for the latest. | :02:09. | :02:11. | |
Understand there is already a row about the composition of this | :02:11. | :02:16. | |
investigation. It hasn't had the easiest of launchers. We heard this | :02:16. | :02:21. | |
morning that the five MPs are going to be from the Treasury Select | :02:21. | :02:27. | |
Committee, as we expected, chaired by Andrew Tyrie. He is going to be | :02:27. | :02:31. | |
joined by Mark Garnier, a Conservative MP, for Labour there | :02:31. | :02:35. | |
is going to be Andy Love and Pat McFadden, and John Thurso will be | :02:35. | :02:40. | |
there for the Lib Dems. But there are no places for people like John | :02:40. | :02:48. | |
Mann, the rather outspoken Labour member of the committee, others who | :02:48. | :02:53. | |
had talked frankly about the committee failing to pin down Bob | :02:53. | :02:57. | |
Diamond. People like David Ruffley, who is known as a pugnacious | :02:57. | :03:01. | |
questioner, or Jesse Norman who clashed with the Prime Minister | :03:01. | :03:04. | |
over Lords reform recently. John Mann has already said that he | :03:04. | :03:08. | |
thinks the whole thing is a total joke and a whitewash, he is | :03:08. | :03:12. | |
threatening to set up his own alternative inquiry. Given that | :03:12. | :03:16. | |
Labour wanted a different inquiry from the start, they wanted an | :03:16. | :03:20. | |
independent commission led by a judge, it certainly has not been | :03:20. | :03:24. | |
the easiest of launches for this effort to try and get to the bottom | :03:24. | :03:30. | |
of what has gone wrong with our banks. Thanks to that. An excellent | :03:30. | :03:37. | |
summary of what the situation is. Allister Heath, John Mann can be a | :03:37. | :03:41. | |
bit of a grandstand up. I understand that. But you do want | :03:41. | :03:44. | |
some trouble makers, and they have kept off all the troublemakers on | :03:44. | :03:48. | |
the right and the left. There are could be members of the House of | :03:48. | :03:53. | |
Lords, we don't know who debt are. I bet you they are not | :03:53. | :03:58. | |
troublemakers! But at least they have got a barrister. I would like | :03:58. | :04:04. | |
to see some answers. I am sick of the political showcasing and | :04:04. | :04:07. | |
grandstanding, bullying in front of cameras, what we really need are | :04:07. | :04:11. | |
answers, and we have had too few answers. But I agree it is a bad | :04:11. | :04:17. | |
start. On the other hand, Andrew Tyrie is someone who will want to | :04:17. | :04:22. | |
build a name for himself, so I don't think it is a whitewash. | :04:22. | :04:31. | |
John Mann was the people's voice, Jackie Ashley, they are not on it? | :04:31. | :04:37. | |
At the is odd, the people who have been left off. I think John Mann | :04:37. | :04:41. | |
does a lot of the insults, he isn't really getting into the forensic | :04:41. | :04:47. | |
evidence. He is the Tom Watson of the select committee! People are | :04:47. | :04:50. | |
saying that maybe Nigel Lawson might come on in the Lords, that | :04:50. | :04:57. | |
could be interesting. But where are the women? We have got John Thurso, | :04:57. | :05:02. | |
Andy Love... I am so glad you're noticing this! I have been noticing | :05:02. | :05:08. | |
these things for years. He appointed the first female editor | :05:08. | :05:15. | |
of the Scotsman? Don't start me! Pat McFadden is a man for those who | :05:15. | :05:22. | |
don't know. We will wait to see. The point I'm making is, it doesn't | :05:22. | :05:27. | |
seem the most high-powered committee, into a world which can | :05:27. | :05:31. | |
cover you in cotton wool. In many ways, that is the problem with MPs. | :05:31. | :05:35. | |
Not many are knowledgeable about the intricacies of high-level | :05:35. | :05:42. | |
banking and so on. So maybe they will appoint other experts later. | :05:42. | :05:46. | |
I think we have to hope for the Lords. They understand the banking | :05:46. | :05:54. | |
industry, not many people do. talking about criminals now. | :05:54. | :05:57. | |
Criminals could go through the justice system in a matter of hours | :05:57. | :06:00. | |
under new plans drawn up by the government. Ministers say they were | :06:00. | :06:03. | |
impressed by how quickly the courts dealt with the riots last year, and | :06:03. | :06:07. | |
they're keen to use this experience to speed up the system in general. | :06:07. | :06:09. | |
This morning the Ministry of Justice published a white paper | :06:09. | :06:12. | |
with the title "Swift and Sure Justice", which details a number of | :06:12. | :06:16. | |
proposals to get things moving quicker. Court hours will be more | :06:16. | :06:18. | |
flexible, with magistrates sitting at weekends and bank holidays, and | :06:18. | :06:21. | |
there will be more use of technology with police, defendants | :06:21. | :06:26. | |
and witnesses being able to give evidence by video link. Magistrates | :06:26. | :06:29. | |
could sit outside courts in places like community centres for low- | :06:29. | :06:31. | |
level uncontested cases, and neighbourhood justice panels will | :06:31. | :06:34. | |
be brought in to deal with anti- social behaviour and other minor | :06:34. | :06:43. | |
offences. What's more, there will be a new "Justice Test" to help | :06:43. | :06:46. | |
police officers on the beat make decisions on how to deal with | :06:46. | :06:48. | |
offenders and magistrates will be able to scrutinise police use of | :06:48. | :06:55. | |
cautions and penalty notices. Ministers hope shoplifting cases | :06:55. | :06:58. | |
that currently take five weeks will be dealt with in 13 days or fewer | :06:58. | :07:01. | |
in future, and some uncontested cases could take just a matter of | :07:01. | :07:10. | |
hours. Joining me now is the Police and Criminal Justice Minister Nick | :07:10. | :07:16. | |
Herbert who launched the white paper this morning. Is this about | :07:16. | :07:20. | |
speeding up justice or saving money? No, it is about speeding up | :07:20. | :07:27. | |
justice. We were impressed by the speed that justice was delivered | :07:27. | :07:30. | |
after the riots, and the significance of that was it didn't | :07:30. | :07:36. | |
require any legal changes, didn't compromise the rights of defendants. | :07:36. | :07:41. | |
There was an in-built culture of delay that was applying in normal | :07:41. | :07:44. | |
operation of criminal justice, and victims reedy lost out. It sent a | :07:44. | :07:49. | |
clear message to offenders if these issues are brought to justice as | :07:49. | :07:54. | |
soon as possible. We know that in many cases, because the majority of | :07:54. | :07:58. | |
cases are uncontested, simple, don't involve going to trial, that | :07:58. | :08:02. | |
can happen within hours and days, particularly through the use of new | :08:02. | :08:07. | |
technology. But some of the rulings, some of the justice after the riots, | :08:07. | :08:11. | |
it may have been something to do with the speed, they were out of | :08:11. | :08:14. | |
kilter with the sentences normally handed out for that kind of | :08:14. | :08:19. | |
behaviour. They were much longer. They were exemplary sentences, | :08:19. | :08:23. | |
handed down by eight judges he thought it was necessary to send | :08:23. | :08:30. | |
out a signal. That wasn't a speedy issue. It did clear and very clear | :08:30. | :08:35. | |
message to the offenders, and they were upheld by the Court of Appeal, | :08:35. | :08:39. | |
significantly. I think the public broadly judged that was right. When | :08:39. | :08:44. | |
we were studying why cases are taking so long, and from the | :08:44. | :08:51. | |
commission of an offence to it been sentenced in a magistrate's course, | :08:51. | :08:55. | |
-- Court, it takes five months on average two. In the 16 weeks of | :08:55. | :08:59. | |
time in court, there were six hours of actual work involved, the rest | :08:59. | :09:07. | |
of the time was just delayed. So there was a cultural problem. So we | :09:07. | :09:11. | |
can bring these cases board much more quickly, which I think is what | :09:11. | :09:18. | |
the public wants. You are more likely to get things wrong, we all | :09:18. | :09:22. | |
do, the more we tried to read things quickly, the more prone we | :09:22. | :09:28. | |
are to mistakes. That must be a danger to the court system as well. | :09:28. | :09:35. | |
Things go wrong at the moment. day will go more wrong? But can you | :09:35. | :09:41. | |
imagine if you run an airline or any other organisation... Not in | :09:41. | :09:45. | |
the normal course of things, you don't. There may be some | :09:45. | :09:50. | |
cancellations, but not half of the and. There are problems at the | :09:50. | :09:53. | |
moment, it is about making sure resources are allocated sensibly, | :09:53. | :09:57. | |
and the judiciary are going to bring forward more straightforward | :09:57. | :10:02. | |
cases and guilty pleas sooner, that is in the interests of justice. | :10:02. | :10:09. | |
you have the court on your side on this? They are famous for going | :10:09. | :10:12. | |
slowly, they run for the benefit of those to work in the courts rather | :10:12. | :10:16. | |
than the public, do you have their agreement? Are they going to say | :10:16. | :10:22. | |
you can do this if you give them more dosh? We are giving a stronger | :10:22. | :10:27. | |
role for the magistracy, Victim Support welcomes this proposal. I | :10:27. | :10:31. | |
don't think it is surprising, because I think victims of the big | :10:31. | :10:37. | |
losers. Justice delayed is justice denied. The Magna Carter said just | :10:37. | :10:40. | |
as it should not be delayed, and it is unnecessarily delayed in this | :10:40. | :10:47. | |
country. I think he could be something more about the hours that | :10:47. | :10:51. | |
the court said, because from what I understand, they sit for about in | :10:51. | :10:55. | |
the morning and a couple of hours in the afternoon. Surely that is an | :10:55. | :11:00. | |
easy way of getting more courses -- case it into court, rather than | :11:00. | :11:06. | |
having this rather bizarre idea of community sentences. That is what | :11:06. | :11:11. | |
we are putting, more flexible hours. That fits in with today's work | :11:11. | :11:17. | |
patterns, and also fits in with where crime may be committed. We | :11:17. | :11:21. | |
are piloting later openings in the evenings and opening on Sunday, | :11:21. | :11:25. | |
which could eat a lot of the demand that sometimes comes in over the | :11:25. | :11:30. | |
weekend. So it is about smarter working, modern employment | :11:30. | :11:38. | |
practices, and the rights to show that if you have a concentration of | :11:38. | :11:43. | |
cases, it is so important that offenders understand that sure | :11:43. | :11:46. | |
justice will be applied. They will be dealt with immediately. It is | :11:46. | :11:50. | |
not just about to Verity, it is about certainty that the system is | :11:50. | :11:55. | |
going to deal with you properly. think it is good to speed the | :11:55. | :12:00. | |
springs up, but I'm sure -- concerned about costs, and having | :12:00. | :12:04. | |
looked at how other countries do it? Have they managed to | :12:04. | :12:10. | |
successfully accelerate the process? But did you think there | :12:10. | :12:15. | |
are going to be issues with the cost? It I think you're right there | :12:15. | :12:20. | |
is a danger with cost, that is why we are putting these schemes, but | :12:20. | :12:23. | |
the criminal justice system costs �20 billion a year, it is what the | :12:23. | :12:28. | |
most expensive in the world. Generally, our systems that are | :12:28. | :12:33. | |
inefficient are ones that are spending money wisely. Other | :12:33. | :12:36. | |
systems have realised that they have to change working patterns in | :12:36. | :12:41. | |
order to adapt. Have any other countries managed to speed up | :12:41. | :12:46. | |
justice to the degree that you of trying to do can have you gone | :12:46. | :12:51. | |
abroad? There is a limit to the amount we should do that, because | :12:51. | :12:55. | |
of what we dog would do is undermine our principles of justice, | :12:55. | :12:59. | |
that it is always fair, the people could have their day in court. | :12:59. | :13:04. | |
We're not going to get rid of a jury trial, we have other ways we | :13:05. | :13:09. | |
think we can deter cases answers are already coming to court without | :13:09. | :13:14. | |
undermining that fundamental right. So it is about real issues of | :13:14. | :13:19. | |
efficiency that we can look at. It is not just a question of saying | :13:19. | :13:25. | |
that we are going to have caught open during the week and opening | :13:25. | :13:31. | |
longer, criminals don't observe these hours. Some do, there are | :13:31. | :13:36. | |
quite lazy criminals! The big question is this, when these | :13:36. | :13:39. | |
magistrates going to the community to dish out justice, can you give | :13:39. | :13:45. | |
us a guarantee the security will not be provided by brute force? | :13:45. | :13:52. | |
Just to say that up and down the country, there are private sector | :13:52. | :13:54. | |
organisations delivering criminal- justice services at this moment for | :13:54. | :13:59. | |
police forces and prisons and courts transport, initiated by the | :13:59. | :14:03. | |
last government. I just came in behind a plan that would have been | :14:03. | :14:10. | |
transporting this -- prisoners to jail, police forces use the private | :14:10. | :14:14. | |
sector to run their cells, this all happened very successfully, it | :14:14. | :14:19. | |
reduces cost and provides a better service for the public. So is that | :14:19. | :14:24. | |
a yes or a note? A I wasn't answering your question, of course! | :14:24. | :14:31. | |
A I knew that! I am trying to make a wider point, I do think there is | :14:31. | :14:38. | |
a difference between the Olympics, a huge one soft -- one-off event. | :14:38. | :14:42. | |
This may work, but I find it hard to believe that if it does, people | :14:42. | :14:46. | |
are going to have to work longer hours, you will need more people to | :14:46. | :14:55. | |
speed things up, but in the end it will cost more money. Other expect | :14:55. | :15:01. | |
-- I don't accept for dealing with inefficiency costs money. We have | :15:01. | :15:05. | |
got to make sure of this. The justice system must be run in the | :15:05. | :15:09. | |
interests of victims and the public. It is not run for the convenience | :15:09. | :15:19. | |
:15:19. | :15:21. | ||
of the professionals, that is a Do not go away. You don't need to | :15:21. | :15:23. | |
understand quantitative easing, bond markets, futures trading or | :15:23. | :15:26. | |
interest rates to know we have been in tricky economic times recently | :15:26. | :15:29. | |
and most of us just want to know one thing... When might it get | :15:30. | :15:34. | |
better? Some say growth and confidence will return late next | :15:34. | :15:38. | |
year, others that we'll feel gloomy for much longer. Giles has been | :15:38. | :15:48. | |
testing the economic weather and tried a bit of forecasting. NPower | :15:48. | :15:54. | |
lots of us, asking the question, when will it all end, is a bit like | :15:54. | :15:59. | |
the question we have all been asking about the weather? For some | :15:59. | :16:05. | |
of us, it seems as if the prospects are really very gloomy indeed. | :16:05. | :16:11. | |
signs are not good. It looks like we may still be in recession at the | :16:11. | :16:19. | |
moment. Even if we do struck growing again, there is no signs it | :16:19. | :16:24. | |
will be at previous levels. -- start growing. When Mervyn King | :16:24. | :16:29. | |
says we're halfway through a ten- year period, that makes me very | :16:29. | :16:34. | |
worried. When you trawl back through history and look at cans of | :16:34. | :16:39. | |
recession stories, those continue a long time after the recession has | :16:39. | :16:46. | |
actually ended. -- counts. problem here is not everyone's | :16:46. | :16:51. | |
forecast is the same. Some would say things are a lot brighter and | :16:51. | :16:56. | |
sunnier than you might expect economically. Some have a vested | :16:56. | :17:00. | |
interest in saying that. Others point to significant independent | :17:01. | :17:06. | |
figures suggesting things could get a lot better than we might think. | :17:06. | :17:12. | |
am very optimistic. We have a good base to build on. Where the second | :17:12. | :17:18. | |
largest exporter of services. We have a great base to build on. -- | :17:18. | :17:22. | |
we are the second. The Government recognises some of the challenges | :17:22. | :17:28. | |
we are facing. One way it will feel better is the squeeze on household | :17:28. | :17:33. | |
incomes we have had in recent years will go away. We think there will | :17:33. | :17:38. | |
be some growth in real earnings over the next couple of years. Over | :17:38. | :17:45. | |
the last four years, he had seen a decline of 7% in household income. | :17:45. | :17:52. | |
-- we have seen. The real problem comes the sunshine and showers. | :17:52. | :17:55. | |
Could it be that politicians will not tell us when the financial | :17:55. | :18:00. | |
crisis may come to an end because the honest truth is they have no | :18:00. | :18:06. | |
idea? I think every forecast it ever looked at, nine times out of | :18:06. | :18:11. | |
10, it was incorrect. It is very difficult to try to predict what | :18:11. | :18:16. | |
would happen. That is right. It is hard to make predictions about | :18:16. | :18:23. | |
where the economy will be next week. They predict both good and bad | :18:23. | :18:28. | |
anyway. Why might they want to float a more gloomy outlook past us | :18:28. | :18:34. | |
poor punters? It is better to set people's expectations low and be | :18:34. | :18:38. | |
positively surprised on the upside. Possibly you can take some credit | :18:38. | :18:46. | |
for that surprise. And Nick Herbert is still with us. Why has our | :18:46. | :18:51. | |
recovery been the more lacklustre of the G8 economies? All sorts of | :18:51. | :18:56. | |
factors, including performance of the eurozone. That makes recovery | :18:56. | :19:03. | |
slower than Germany and France. had a huge allowance of -- on | :19:03. | :19:08. | |
financial services. It is the principal export market of Germany | :19:08. | :19:13. | |
as well. It is not all gloom. That was drawn attention to buy some who | :19:13. | :19:21. | |
were interviewed. If you look the Shia at the performance of our car | :19:21. | :19:28. | |
industry, new investment and new jobs. -- this year. There was an | :19:28. | :19:33. | |
improvement and narrowing of the trade deficit. That export was to | :19:33. | :19:40. | |
none eurozone countries, like China. In the last two years we have | :19:40. | :19:44. | |
created 800 Paras and private sector jobs. A lot of them part- | :19:44. | :19:53. | |
time! -- 800,000. These are not people who wanted part-time jobs. | :19:53. | :20:00. | |
They want full-time jobs. There have been successes. Though should | :20:00. | :20:06. | |
be talked about as well. We have a situation where we have got on top | :20:06. | :20:11. | |
of the deficit. That has been reduced by a quarter. The action we | :20:11. | :20:15. | |
have taken has enabled historically low interest rates, which is | :20:15. | :20:21. | |
incredibly important. Can I just remind you in this picture of the | :20:21. | :20:29. | |
booming economy you are painting - overall the big picture is what | :20:29. | :20:34. | |
matters? Living standards have been squeezed for longer and more deeply | :20:34. | :20:40. | |
than any time since the 1920s. Unemployment is 2.5 million. There | :20:40. | :20:46. | |
has been a growth in this economy since she came to power. There | :20:46. | :20:50. | |
prospect of it in the foreseeable future. No one is in any doubt it | :20:50. | :20:57. | |
was a damaging recession. We were particularly exposed to it because | :20:57. | :21:00. | |
of our reliance on financial- services. We were ill prepared for | :21:00. | :21:06. | |
it because we had a budget deficit. That was one problem the last | :21:06. | :21:12. | |
government bequeathed asked. We had a massive spending problem. The | :21:12. | :21:15. | |
bigger argument is about how to deal with these problems and the | :21:15. | :21:21. | |
fact we have got on top of the deficit and built a strong | :21:21. | :21:27. | |
foundations. We have produced it by a quarter. What will the deficit ft | :21:27. | :21:36. | |
by 2015? I cannot tell you. -- deficit be. It will be higher than | :21:36. | :21:43. | |
France and Italy and Germany today. Let me finish the point. It will | :21:43. | :21:49. | |
still be the highest deficit of any G eight country by 2015. You know | :21:49. | :21:55. | |
that we have a plan to eliminate the bulk of the deficit by the end | :21:55. | :22:00. | |
of this Parliament. That is an incredibly challenging thing to do | :22:00. | :22:04. | |
- requiring reductions in public spending. They have been opposed | :22:04. | :22:09. | |
that at every turn by the Labour Party. When you came to power, you | :22:09. | :22:14. | |
said you have sorted the deficit fell by 2015. In the pre-Budget | :22:14. | :22:22. | |
report, you told us I need another two years - I need to have 2017. | :22:22. | :22:25. | |
The Cabinet Secretary and the Governor of the Bank of England say | :22:25. | :22:32. | |
it will wait till 2020. He did not say that about the deficit. I am | :22:32. | :22:36. | |
reminded me of that the significant progress we have already made. | :22:36. | :22:41. | |
is the economy not growing battle? There have been a combination of | :22:41. | :22:47. | |
things, haven't they? -- at all. The problem in the eurozone is | :22:47. | :22:54. | |
really serious and the collapse of demand. Very high commodity prices | :22:54. | :22:58. | |
and this general issue of confidence. We have to be careful | :22:58. | :23:03. | |
about talking down the things that are done. The situation is | :23:03. | :23:07. | |
depressing. The economy is shrinking. Who knows what will | :23:07. | :23:11. | |
happen in the third quarter? It might shrink. The Olympics will | :23:11. | :23:17. | |
make it shrink. They're having a lot of negative effect. The | :23:17. | :23:22. | |
Government has not done enough to boost the competitiveness of the | :23:22. | :23:27. | |
economy. There has been too much of the old policies when it comes to | :23:27. | :23:33. | |
many things, including monetary policy. Inflation has been too high. | :23:33. | :23:38. | |
Inflation has started to fall a bit. Too much of the policy is about | :23:38. | :23:42. | |
monetary policy and the idea we need to boost credit by bank | :23:42. | :23:47. | |
lending and so on were not doing enough when it comes to the tax | :23:47. | :23:53. | |
system and regulation. -- while not doing. The airport business is a | :23:53. | :23:59. | |
big blunder. Planning has been made easier. I cannot see that. It is | :23:59. | :24:06. | |
the same as before. The national debt is going up. I cannot see how | :24:06. | :24:12. | |
we can have a proper recovery. I can't see how the forecasts of | :24:12. | :24:16. | |
George Osborne will materialise. you sum up what is being said, you | :24:16. | :24:22. | |
could hit the 2015 election with no growth in this economy, correct? | :24:22. | :24:28. | |
will challenge some of those things. There have been important changes. | :24:28. | :24:33. | |
We eliminated the jobs touch and reduced national insurance. | :24:33. | :24:41. | |
still went up. -- jobs tax. We have reduced the amount of corporation | :24:41. | :24:47. | |
tax. There have been apprenticeships. Changes to the way | :24:47. | :24:52. | |
in which we employ people. It is incredibly important for | :24:52. | :24:56. | |
competitiveness. It is wrong to suggest nothing has been done in | :24:56. | :25:06. | |
these areas. You have put up capital gains tax and VAT. There is | :25:06. | :25:11. | |
a massive budget deficit that has to be dealt with. We have secured a | :25:11. | :25:19. | |
reduction in that by reducing public spending. Excuse me, | :25:19. | :25:25. | |
minister! The figures up on your own government red boat. Most of | :25:25. | :25:35. | |
the production in the deficit has been done by raising taxes. -- Red | :25:35. | :25:40. | |
Book. Far too many people are out of the job -- a job as a result of | :25:40. | :25:46. | |
spending cuts. The programme to reduce spending actually is | :25:46. | :25:51. | |
something that has been opposed at every turn by the left and by the | :25:51. | :25:56. | |
Labour Party. And yet it is the thing that has enabled us to build | :25:56. | :26:04. | |
a foundation of market confidence. I think it has been perfectly clear | :26:04. | :26:08. | |
over the last couple of years that austerity measures happened too far | :26:08. | :26:13. | |
and too fast. There is no growth. There is no sign of anything yet, | :26:13. | :26:19. | |
is there? I gave a list of things where there were signs. What we | :26:19. | :26:24. | |
should do now is to increase public spending and have more borrowing | :26:24. | :26:29. | |
with all the consequences that will have in terms of market confidence. | :26:29. | :26:33. | |
As a consequence of that a rise in interest rates will be the worst | :26:33. | :26:40. | |
thing we can do. What a bad if unemployment keeps going up? -- | :26:40. | :26:46. | |
what about. I talked about the creation of private sector jobs. We | :26:46. | :26:52. | |
heard a big structural problem of youth unemployment, even in the | :26:52. | :26:58. | |
good years. -- had. There are fundamental problems we need to | :26:58. | :27:03. | |
address. That is linked to welfare reforms. All of these measures are | :27:03. | :27:10. | |
incredibly important. We have brought forward the structure. | :27:10. | :27:16. | |
You're in an interesting position. One person wants a lot more supply- | :27:16. | :27:24. | |
side reform. Someone else who wants a more traditional Keynesian | :27:24. | :27:34. | |
:27:34. | :27:35. | ||
stimulus. You do not satisfy either of these. What they're doing is not | :27:35. | :27:41. | |
working. There is a different stimulus. There are considerable | :27:41. | :27:47. | |
military activities going on to release credit into the economy. -- | :27:47. | :27:53. | |
monetary. The pundits warned they said that would have inflationary | :27:53. | :27:58. | |
consequences. It is coming down. We have an National Loans guarantee | :27:58. | :28:02. | |
scheme. There is a new lending scheme in order to try to get | :28:02. | :28:08. | |
lending to business. Lending is still not coming through. There has | :28:08. | :28:13. | |
been a huge problem with that. We have announced a new scheme with | :28:13. | :28:21. | |
that. This 325 billion and another 50 that has gone into the economy, | :28:21. | :28:29. | |
where is that money? There is a problem that banks have not been | :28:29. | :28:34. | |
lending to small businesses. We have set up the loan guarantee | :28:34. | :28:44. | |
:28:44. | :28:45. | ||
scheme in order to incentivised that. -- incentivised. Where is the | :28:45. | :28:52. | |
325 billion? Where has it gone? is in the economy. Somewhere but no | :28:52. | :28:59. | |
one can find it. It is not in the pay-off of Bob Diamond, is it? You | :28:59. | :29:09. | |
:29:09. | :29:11. | ||
have been a good sport. They are very hostile. I apologise. He is a | :29:11. | :29:16. | |
feminist. We are off now! Thanks for coming in. If I do not see you | :29:16. | :29:20. | |
again, have a good summer. Government plans to clean up | :29:20. | :29:23. | |
lobbying have been thrown into doubt today. A scathing report from | :29:23. | :29:25. | |
the Political and Constitutional Affairs Committee says the | :29:25. | :29:28. | |
Government's plans will only scratch the surface and do little | :29:28. | :29:30. | |
to improve transparency. The Government is planning to introduce | :29:30. | :29:33. | |
a statutory register of all those who lobby on behalf of third | :29:33. | :29:36. | |
parties. But the committee says this plan should be scrapped and, | :29:36. | :29:38. | |
instead, regulations should be introduced to cover all those who | :29:38. | :29:48. | |
lobby professionally. Not just businesses but charities, trade | :29:48. | :29:51. | |
unions and so on. You may remember that, before he became Prime | :29:51. | :29:54. | |
Minister, David Cameron identified lobbying as a major problem and | :29:54. | :30:01. | |
pledged to sort it out. Let's look at what he said: It is the next big | :30:01. | :30:07. | |
scandal waiting to happen. It is an issue which crosses party lines and | :30:07. | :30:12. | |
has tainted politics for too long. It exposes the far too cosy | :30:12. | :30:18. | |
relationship between politics, government, business and money. I | :30:18. | :30:25. | |
am talking about lobbying. We know how it works - the lunches, the | :30:25. | :30:30. | |
hospitality - advisers for hire. Helping big business to get its way. | :30:30. | :30:36. | |
In this party we believe in competition and not cronyism. We | :30:36. | :30:41. | |
believe in market economics and not crony capitalism. We must sort this | :30:41. | :30:47. | |
Joining me now from Cardiff is the Labour MP Paul Flynn who sits on | :30:47. | :30:56. | |
the Committee, and here. Let me come to you first. But the | :30:56. | :31:00. | |
committee doesn't like would be government plans because you don't | :31:00. | :31:05. | |
think it goes far enough. expression we news is that it only | :31:06. | :31:11. | |
scratches the surface. 95% of lobbyists will be left off the hook. | :31:12. | :31:19. | |
We heard the words of David Cameron, he was a lobbyist in his previous | :31:19. | :31:24. | |
incarnation, had he says it means money buying power and PoW fishing | :31:25. | :31:29. | |
for money. What has he done in a government? Absolutely nothing to | :31:29. | :31:36. | |
reform it. The great crusade against lobbying has sunk his snout | :31:36. | :31:40. | |
so deeply into the trough that or you can see are the sort of his | :31:40. | :31:46. | |
Gucci shoes. We have seen scandal after scandal, at the worst was | :31:46. | :31:51. | |
decried as a scandal, when it included buying a place to sit at | :31:51. | :31:58. | |
David Cameron's table, �250,000 was the charge made it you wanted to | :31:58. | :32:03. | |
dine with the Prime Minister. We have seen the scandals over Liam | :32:03. | :32:07. | |
Fox, what was going on with a lobbyist influencing... I didn't | :32:07. | :32:11. | |
want you to get everything knock on won't answer! For me the biggest | :32:11. | :32:19. | |
revelation was that you pick the Prime Minister wears Gucci shoes! | :32:19. | :32:29. | |
He is up to his... Jane Wilson, using to be happy -- you seemed to | :32:29. | :32:33. | |
be happy that they go to drop his plan to register them. We were in | :32:33. | :32:36. | |
the unusual position when we gave evidence one said this proposal | :32:36. | :32:42. | |
didn't go far enough, but it did scratch the surface. The committee | :32:42. | :32:49. | |
came back as they have and we think if a register has to be universal, | :32:49. | :32:55. | |
everyone who lobbies professionally. What would be wrong with that? | :32:55. | :33:00. | |
agree with that very much, this is support from all parties, and | :33:00. | :33:05. | |
virtually all witnesses. The Tory majority on the committee agree | :33:05. | :33:09. | |
that the government proposal doesn't go far enough, and the | :33:09. | :33:14. | |
lobbyists who gave evidence also do same thing. That we must have root- | :33:15. | :33:18. | |
and-branch reform of lobbying, or we will continue to have a | :33:18. | :33:23. | |
government that is up for sale to stop there is a claim that �92 | :33:23. | :33:28. | |
million was spent by the financial industry last year it in order to | :33:28. | :33:33. | |
subvert government policy. What we see his policies are been corrupted | :33:33. | :33:38. | |
by the influence of lobbyists, the government are leaning over and | :33:38. | :33:42. | |
taking the money from the lobbyists and altering their policies | :33:42. | :33:49. | |
accordingly. There is a very good system for non for profit pensions, | :33:49. | :33:54. | |
and that was watered down because of the cash spent by the financial | :33:54. | :34:00. | |
industry to subvert government. me bringing Jane Wilson here. Do | :34:00. | :34:05. | |
you want a register of lobbyists? Or we think the government is | :34:05. | :34:12. | |
intent on registering lobbyists. What is your policy? We think a | :34:12. | :34:16. | |
register could improve transparency, it could be a good thing, and did | :34:16. | :34:20. | |
the problem is transparency, this could go some way to preventing it. | :34:20. | :34:25. | |
Do you think everybody should be on this register, she did include a -- | :34:25. | :34:33. | |
charities, who are huge lobbyists in their own right? We used to it | :34:33. | :34:36. | |
frees are no good cause exemptions. We think the financial burden | :34:36. | :34:43. | |
should be looked at, but charitable organisations, with the Charities | :34:43. | :34:50. | |
Act been overturned, they have them as campaigners. The I think they | :34:50. | :34:55. | |
should all be registered, wheelie bin transparent times, and I think | :34:55. | :34:59. | |
it is time we should have everybody registered. I did something | :34:59. | :35:03. | |
ridiculous is happening, which is that all the pressure from | :35:03. | :35:06. | |
businesses is happening privately, it should have been publicly. They | :35:06. | :35:11. | |
should be an open debate about political stop I'm a business | :35:11. | :35:16. | |
journalist, they never talk on the record but they spend money on | :35:16. | :35:21. | |
lobbyists. What do you think will happen next? There will be an | :35:21. | :35:24. | |
announcement next week and I think the Government will stick to an | :35:24. | :35:30. | |
inadequate policy. But I believe that all parties, all of the | :35:30. | :35:34. | |
witnesses who came before our committees said the same thing. We | :35:34. | :35:40. | |
need a reform similar to what they have had in the US and Canada, | :35:40. | :35:43. | |
otherwise they might well be a collapse of trust in the political | :35:43. | :35:53. | |
:35:53. | :35:53. | ||
system. We shall see what happens. Both of you, thank you very much. | :35:53. | :35:59. | |
It was a political whodunnit that wasn't hard to sort of. Because it | :35:59. | :36:06. | |
was the Prime Minister in Number 10, the night of a very long knife. | :36:06. | :36:09. | |
It's 50 years ago today - Friday 13th - since mild-mannered Harold | :36:09. | :36:11. | |
Macmillan carried out the most brutal reshuffle in British | :36:11. | :36:15. | |
political history. We'll discuss that - and whether David Cameron | :36:15. | :36:18. | |
might have a reshuffle up his sleeve - in a moment, but first | :36:18. | :36:22. | |
here's a familiar face who had a ringside seat on the Night of the | :36:22. | :36:32. | |
:36:32. | :36:37. | ||
50 years ago the Prime Minister Harold Bellman and carried out one | :36:37. | :36:43. | |
of the most dramatic and bloody reshuffles in political history, he | :36:43. | :36:47. | |
sacked seven of his Cabinet. The most prominent was the Chancellor | :36:47. | :36:53. | |
of the Exchequer. I was working as a young intern for Selwyn Lloyd, so | :36:53. | :37:03. | |
:37:03. | :37:04. | ||
The day started with me bringing in the newspapers to Selwyn Lloyd in | :37:05. | :37:11. | |
his flat, about 745 at him, and suddenly our eyes: the headline in | :37:11. | :37:18. | |
the Daily Mail. It it's at least said, the Chancellor is going to be | :37:18. | :37:23. | |
sacked. He said this was just a journalist pasha. Then there was a | :37:24. | :37:30. | |
big surprise mid-morning. Suddenly there appeared in the Chancellor's | :37:30. | :37:35. | |
office the private sector -- secretary of the Prime Minister. He | :37:35. | :37:39. | |
astonished us by saying, I'm afraid my master has some bad news for | :37:40. | :37:45. | |
your master. De Prime Minister has decided to after be charged led to | :37:45. | :37:50. | |
resign. I wonder if you wouldn't mind breaking this bad news 2 | :37:50. | :37:57. | |
Selwyn Lloyd? I said, bloody well tell him yourself! He didn't want | :37:57. | :38:07. | |
:38:07. | :38:07. | ||
to pass this on pre- 19-year-old student. Macmillan himself called | :38:07. | :38:10. | |
Selwyn Lloyd the most loyal colleague he had ever had, they | :38:10. | :38:14. | |
have been close colleagues for a long time. I spent the evening with | :38:14. | :38:19. | |
a man who was shattered, several whiskies were poured out, suddenly | :38:19. | :38:23. | |
the door bell rang, and the person at the door was the Post Office | :38:23. | :38:28. | |
engineer he said, I have come to remove the high-security scrambler | :38:28. | :38:38. | |
:38:38. | :38:38. | ||
telephone. I remember thinking, how quickly power fades. It was botched | :38:38. | :38:46. | |
because it was done not in a carefully planned operation, | :38:46. | :38:50. | |
scheduled in Manila in's mind, it had to be brought forward in a | :38:50. | :38:54. | |
great panic because of the leak. Harold Goodman ended badly and | :38:54. | :39:01. | |
whose belief. -- Harold Macmillan. The first lesson is, don't rush | :39:01. | :39:07. | |
into it. It is not a bad idea to rejuvenate a government. But if | :39:07. | :39:12. | |
you're going to do it, do it more skilfully and thoughtfully and | :39:13. | :39:21. | |
strategically than the Night of the I'm joined now by Jonathan Aitken | :39:21. | :39:28. | |
and by Peter Riddell from the Institute for Government. Let's | :39:28. | :39:33. | |
just remember what the context was. The Tories had been in power for 11 | :39:33. | :39:39. | |
years by then. The government seemed to be belonging to a | :39:39. | :39:45. | |
different Britain, the government wasn't that popular, there were | :39:45. | :39:49. | |
problems with inflation and strikes. Harold Macmillan seemed to belong | :39:49. | :39:55. | |
to the Edwardian age to stop this was a dramatic attempt at to | :39:55. | :40:02. | |
Cardiff could the government into the 1960s? It was, but no one | :40:02. | :40:06. | |
needed dragging more than Harold Macmillan himself, who was the | :40:06. | :40:11. | |
personification of it, and in that interview I tried to reconstruct | :40:11. | :40:18. | |
between self and -- Selvan Lloyd and him, Selwyn Lloyd said to him, | :40:18. | :40:27. | |
of course of my job is disposable, but by air for a great worry that I | :40:27. | :40:34. | |
will turn out to be Strafford to your King Charles at first. That is | :40:34. | :40:39. | |
what turned out to happen. But in the end, in a centre it almost | :40:39. | :40:46. | |
worked. Because the Tories did change things, picking someone with | :40:46. | :40:54. | |
an even bigger grasp for image. They brought in Douglas-Home. Be | :40:54. | :41:00. | |
brought in to be younger names. By 1964, after 13 years of Tory rule, | :41:00. | :41:06. | |
in a vastly changing Britain, Harold Wilson managed to win by | :41:06. | :41:12. | |
Annie four seats. You have given an interesting point, everyone looks | :41:12. | :41:18. | |
at the drama, the mistakes made, but the key to reshuffles is, do | :41:18. | :41:25. | |
they result in a change of policy? Objection to Selwyn Lloyd was the | :41:25. | :41:33. | |
sense that he was too much a cautious Chancellor. What happened | :41:33. | :41:36. | |
was that led to an expansionary policy, that is really what | :41:36. | :41:41. | |
produced such a close result, because there was an enormous boom. | :41:41. | :41:48. | |
The Hanover last of for the rest of the Sixties. Most people don't care | :41:48. | :41:55. | |
who moved, but if it results in a change of policy, that is where the | :41:55. | :41:59. | |
evidence shows. This was a reshuffle that did have that impact. | :41:59. | :42:04. | |
Would any Prime Minister attempt to do this sort of thing to date? | :42:04. | :42:10. | |
Margaret Thatcher, when she moved Geoffrey Howe out of the foreign | :42:11. | :42:15. | |
office, that was a botched job for all kinds of reasons, there was a | :42:15. | :42:22. | |
row about who was going to live in which house, but seven other | :42:22. | :42:25. | |
cabinet ministers changed jobs, it camouflaged the fact that she was | :42:25. | :42:32. | |
really getting rid of one. I have seen reshuffles go wrong again. | :42:32. | :42:38. | |
many lessons, I would suggest for David Cameron. Do you see any | :42:38. | :42:43. | |
reshuffle? I think even this morning, people are saying, is it | :42:43. | :42:49. | |
coming this side of the recess? think he will. The problem for | :42:49. | :42:53. | |
David Cameron is he would love to reshuffle some of the Lib Dems! But | :42:53. | :42:58. | |
of course he can't. So he was stuck with those elements. Should he | :42:59. | :43:04. | |
change his Chancellor? I think there is a growing case, I think by | :43:04. | :43:07. | |
September or October he's going to have to think about that carefully. | :43:07. | :43:11. | |
I'm not advocating what we saw in those days, but I don't think | :43:11. | :43:19. | |
they'd Cameron says it is sticking to along to the same people to stop | :43:19. | :43:27. | |
even though the policies are not working. I think the fault in the | :43:27. | :43:34. | |
years between Blair and Gordon Brown was the constant her labour. | :43:34. | :43:39. | |
-- turnover. You have got to balance out not only the people but | :43:39. | :43:42. | |
also the jobs. If you make the business secretary a Tory, when are | :43:43. | :43:47. | |
you going to get an Lib-Dem? That is why many conditions have very | :43:47. | :43:51. | |
few reshuffles. The Germans didn't know what the reshuffle meant, they | :43:51. | :43:55. | |
thought it was some weird British thing. In the Scottish coalition, | :43:55. | :44:00. | |
they hardly had any. The headline, Night of the Long Knives, that was | :44:00. | :44:08. | |
in the Express at the time? I think it was. That is the days it was the | :44:08. | :44:14. | |
most influential paper in the country. I think it brought back | :44:14. | :44:18. | |
memories of Nazi Germany, as well? I think that is where the original | :44:18. | :44:23. | |
phrase came from, it was at an episode of German history when all | :44:23. | :44:31. | |
sorts of people were butchered. But he made a brilliant comeback, a | :44:31. | :44:35. | |
great lesson for how to behave after you are sacked. Most people | :44:35. | :44:41. | |
get bitter and angry, but Selwyn Lloyd was impeccable. People kept | :44:41. | :44:45. | |
saying, he is behaving so well. He has been badly done by the stock | :44:45. | :44:50. | |
must be a way of bringing him back. That is exactly what happened. | :44:51. | :44:55. | |
Although this was an attempt to modernise the Macmillan | :44:55. | :45:00. | |
Conservatives at the time, when it came to the succession to Macmillan | :45:00. | :45:04. | |
himself, Iain Macleod was still able to write that this was | :45:04. | :45:08. | |
entirely a magic circle of old Etonians that had taken the | :45:08. | :45:17. | |
decision to bring in Alec Douglas- Home. But another thing was Butler, | :45:17. | :45:22. | |
who was the source of the Daily Mail story. Do we know that for | :45:22. | :45:32. | |
sure? Absolutely. He was a Labour supporter? By a clutch of course | :45:32. | :45:38. | |
wanted to do everything -- but of course wanted to do everything he | :45:38. | :45:48. | |
:45:48. | :45:52. | ||
could. Macmillan wanted to exclude Do not go away. We are sticking | :45:52. | :46:02. | |
:46:02. | :46:04. | ||
with a theme. It is Friday the 13th. Today can be a man lacking day. -- | :46:04. | :46:12. | |
an unlucky day. What better than a Daily Politics celebration of the | :46:12. | :46:22. | |
:46:22. | :46:28. | ||
There are plenty of elections around the world where candidates | :46:28. | :46:38. | |
:46:38. | :46:40. | ||
are cheated of victory by cheating. But when you are standing for the | :46:40. | :46:44. | |
most important office in the world, you don't expect to lose the race | :46:44. | :46:47. | |
on a technical glitch - foiled by hanging cads - despite getting more | :46:47. | :46:50. | |
votes than the other guy! -- chads. You're the front runner. The MPs | :46:50. | :46:53. | |
have voted for you, the party members have voted for you. And | :46:53. | :47:00. | |
then on the final transfer of votes you get beaten by your kid brother. | :47:00. | :47:06. | |
Never more have the words you are so getting Bob quashed after this | :47:06. | :47:14. | |
being carefully whispered. The career of Michael Portillo was | :47:14. | :47:19. | |
interrupted by the voters of Enfield. By the time he finally did | :47:19. | :47:29. | |
:47:29. | :47:33. | ||
get to run for the leadership, he missed the train and came in third. | :47:33. | :47:35. | |
Speaking of which, meet William Huskisson, Liverpool MP and former | :47:36. | :47:39. | |
President of the Board of Trade, who went to Manchester to open the | :47:39. | :47:42. | |
world's first passenger railway and while doing so got run over by one | :47:42. | :47:45. | |
becoming the world's first railway casualty, the first person to be | :47:45. | :47:47. | |
taken to hospital on a train and the first railway fatality! | :47:48. | :47:50. | |
Portillo should make a programme about him. And, finally, why keep | :47:50. | :47:58. | |
all the bad luck to yourself, when you can redistribute it? Mate Lib | :47:58. | :48:03. | |
Dem Lem bit opaque. He backed Charles Kennedy. He lost his own | :48:03. | :48:10. | |
seat despite a large swing to the Lib Dems nationally. -- at Lembit | :48:10. | :48:20. | |
:48:20. | :48:23. | ||
Jonathan Aitken and Peter Red Rock are still with us. Napoleon said he | :48:23. | :48:27. | |
needed lucky generals and not just military experts. Politicians need | :48:28. | :48:34. | |
to be lucky as well, don't they? Timing is key. You want to go into | :48:34. | :48:40. | |
Parliament on the upswing for your party. We have had two long periods | :48:40. | :48:44. | |
of one-party rule. A lot of Labour politicians never made it to the | :48:45. | :48:49. | |
Cabinet. They did not have ministerial careers at all. 18 | :48:49. | :48:56. | |
years later, they were in that early Forties. They were touching | :48:56. | :49:06. | |
:49:06. | :49:06. | ||
60 and did not have Koreas. Exactly 60 and did not have Koreas. Exactly | :49:06. | :49:16. | |
:49:16. | :49:21. | ||
. Margaret Thatcher had Arthur Scargill running the coal miners' | :49:21. | :49:28. | |
union. She was lucky in enemies. She had a counter of bailing | :49:28. | :49:35. | |
tendency which was incredible tenacity. Another politician on the | :49:35. | :49:40. | |
other side of the Atlantic, Richard Nixon, was very unhappy at one | :49:40. | :49:47. | |
stage. He won the election in 1960. That was very bad luck. He fought | :49:47. | :49:55. | |
back against continuous faults. In the end he got elected. Then he had | :49:55. | :50:01. | |
some rotten luck over Watergate. Where you are unlucky or lucky as a | :50:01. | :50:07. | |
politician? I made my own luck. Sometimes events for the away. | :50:07. | :50:12. | |
Sometimes you can help events to for your way. Sometimes you can be | :50:12. | :50:15. | |
caught but something that - as a good buy something that really is | :50:15. | :50:25. | |
bad luck. Two-year member Neil Kinnock on the beach? -- caught by | :50:25. | :50:31. | |
something that really is bad luck. Little things like that, it is | :50:31. | :50:36. | |
really bad luck. They took you for years to come these images. Tony | :50:36. | :50:41. | |
Blair was quite lucky as a politician to begin with. He says | :50:41. | :50:47. | |
he had the bad luck of some vehicle Gordon Brown next door. He also | :50:47. | :50:57. | |
:50:57. | :51:02. | ||
chose his luck. I still think it is about management ability and | :51:02. | :51:08. | |
choices. In recent times, who has been a lucky politician? I agree, | :51:08. | :51:17. | |
Tony Blair. He got out at the right time. There was an element of | :51:17. | :51:24. | |
Margaret Thatcher. Tony Blair had more perfect timing. I nominate | :51:24. | :51:30. | |
John Major. He was fairly obscure as a Cabinet minister. Raptures at | :51:30. | :51:40. | |
:51:40. | :51:42. | ||
the top and he shot up. All things to all men! -- ructions. Then of | :51:42. | :51:48. | |
course he had something wrong with him when he had to step up. | :51:48. | :51:54. | |
wisdom teeth! That was lucky. Great fun to go with these things. Back | :51:54. | :52:00. | |
to modern times. It has been another seven days in coalition | :52:00. | :52:10. | |
:52:10. | :52:12. | ||
land. Here it is ever fresher of the be combined in 60 seconds. -- | :52:12. | :52:17. | |
the week gone by. The Buckley's rate fixing scandal rumbled on. | :52:17. | :52:24. | |
George Osborne tried to pin it on to the last Labour government. Was | :52:24. | :52:30. | |
it the Chancellor's finest hour? No answer. Tory MPs are revolting. Ask | :52:30. | :52:37. | |
David Cameron. 91 of his troops rebelled over reform. The PM was | :52:37. | :52:45. | |
ready to point the finger at the ringleader. It turned at G4S had | :52:45. | :52:50. | |
provided the few and not the many in terms of security staff for the | :52:50. | :52:56. | |
Olympic site. He called in the Army. PMQs is normally pretty rowdy but | :52:56. | :53:06. | |
:53:06. | :53:07. | ||
the volume turned up to 11 this week. Did not quite catch that! | :53:07. | :53:16. | |
High time for a bit of recess banter. Watch out for the arm! | :53:16. | :53:25. | |
Where does the coalition go from here? There used to be talk of a | :53:25. | :53:33. | |
so-called coalition 2.0. On that front, things have gone curiously | :53:33. | :53:39. | |
quiet. Is it possible the idea has been quietly dropped? We are joined | :53:39. | :53:47. | |
by Linda Jack, who may be able to shed some light. As far as I | :53:47. | :53:54. | |
understand it, there will be a mid- term review. It will look at how | :53:55. | :53:59. | |
the coalition has come along in terms of the objectives. Whether | :53:59. | :54:04. | |
they have been met or not. It is about embedding those objectives. | :54:04. | :54:12. | |
The whole idea of actually having a follow-up coalition 2.0 has been | :54:12. | :54:17. | |
dropped. That is a bit sad really. Isn't the reason they are doing | :54:17. | :54:22. | |
this because they cannot agree on anything to go forward? The one | :54:22. | :54:28. | |
thing they have stuck to together has been deficit reduction. Despite | :54:28. | :54:31. | |
people like me trying committee cannot get a cigarette paper | :54:31. | :54:35. | |
between the two party leaders and their spokesmen on that. They have | :54:36. | :54:39. | |
discovered that is about the only thing they agree on. There is | :54:39. | :54:43. | |
probably an element of truth in that. I was not in favour of the | :54:43. | :54:51. | |
coalition agreement. You wanted another agreement on Mark 2? If we | :54:51. | :54:58. | |
were going to be stuck there, we ought to have a Mark 2. It is | :54:58. | :55:02. | |
important for us. When we were discussing it, the feeling was it | :55:02. | :55:08. | |
would give us more leverage if there was an agreement. We a seeing | :55:08. | :55:12. | |
people like Michael Gove coming out with another announcement. They | :55:12. | :55:16. | |
will get their policies in through the back door. Who pulled the plug | :55:16. | :55:26. | |
:55:26. | :55:28. | ||
on there? I have no idea. I do! You do! I presume the quartet. Which | :55:28. | :55:38. | |
:55:38. | :55:38. | ||
one Aberu Kebede in the quartet? A tall, angular chap. -- which one in | :55:38. | :55:45. | |
the quartet? It was Danny Alexander who told us that the plug had been | :55:45. | :55:53. | |
pulled. The problem, at the moment, they have either implemented bits | :55:53. | :55:59. | |
of the original agreement or they are unable to do House of Lords | :55:59. | :56:03. | |
reform. It is kind of done. They have still have another three years | :56:03. | :56:08. | |
to go before the next election. Without a programme they are more | :56:08. | :56:13. | |
of a Mikey just to fight all the time. What will make do for the | :56:13. | :56:21. | |
next few years? -- more likely just to fight. The idea it is just going | :56:21. | :56:26. | |
to the House of Lords for the next three years has gone out of the | :56:26. | :56:29. | |
window. The Conservatives are still insisting that the Lib Dems have | :56:29. | :56:33. | |
done brilliantly out of this. They have all their demands and the | :56:34. | :56:42. | |
Tories have nothing. The dilemma we have at the moment is I think we | :56:42. | :56:46. | |
are continually being caught on the back foot. Another idea comes out | :56:46. | :56:50. | |
and we just have to make a public denouncement of it all just go | :56:51. | :56:55. | |
along with it. At least the coalition agreement has some | :56:55. | :56:59. | |
framework around it. You could say it was not in the coalition | :56:59. | :57:04. | |
agreement. The Lib Dems are not coming up with their own ideas. | :57:04. | :57:08. | |
is frustrating for those of us who work on the committee. A lot of | :57:09. | :57:14. | |
work went into the mid-term review. Some of them you will see at | :57:14. | :57:20. | |
conference. Was it the idea Beth they should go forward to make up a | :57:20. | :57:26. | |
new coalition agreement? -- that. The committee and the conference | :57:26. | :57:31. | |
could vote on it - whether they liked it or not. You would not be | :57:31. | :57:38. | |
able to determine what was inept. will come to you in a second. -- in | :57:38. | :57:43. | |
it. Denny think it's more likely that some time in 2014, you will | :57:43. | :57:47. | |
both go your separate ways? Not that that will provoke an election. | :57:47. | :57:52. | |
The Conservatives will continue as a minority government. You will | :57:52. | :57:56. | |
both go your separate ways and you will both want to say you can re- | :57:56. | :58:06. | |
establish its own individual identities. That is quite important. | :58:06. | :58:15. | |
I would like it done tomorrow. it will happen in 2014, why not | :58:15. | :58:19. | |
2013? When you start to talk about it all the time you have a big | :58:20. | :58:25. | |
issue. The first ticking time bomb is the economy. Budget deficit may | :58:26. | :58:31. | |
be increasing again and the economy shrinking. The second thing is | :58:31. | :58:36. | |
Europe. What will happen with that and any new constitutional treaty? | :58:36. | :58:43. | |
What will the UK do about it. is it for today. Thank you to all | :58:43. | :58:50. |