Browse content similar to 04/09/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Afternoon, folks. Welcome to the Daily Politics. So it's reshuffle | :00:38. | :00:41. | |
day. The first major reshuffle since the coalition government was | :00:41. | :00:45. | |
formed. It's the day the prime minister's meant to stamp his | :00:46. | :00:49. | |
authority on his administration. Although so far, most of the top | :00:49. | :00:54. | |
Cabinet posts remain unchanged. What we do know is that the Justice | :00:54. | :00:57. | |
Secretary Ken Clarke is leaving his job. But he'll remain in the | :00:57. | :00:59. | |
Cabinet in an advisory role. And the Health Secretary, Andrew | :00:59. | :01:04. | |
Lansley becomes leader of the House of Commons. It's not been a great | :01:04. | :01:08. | |
day so far for women. Baroness Warsi, Caroline Spellman and Cheryl | :01:08. | :01:11. | |
Gillan, all set to lose their jobs. Although Teresa Villiers comes into | :01:11. | :01:16. | |
cabinet as Northern Ireland Secretary. We'll bring you all the | :01:16. | :01:19. | |
action as it unfolds. The Commons Public Accounts | :01:19. | :01:22. | |
Committee says extraordinary chaos at the UK Border Agency has allowed | :01:22. | :01:26. | |
tens of thousands of bogus students to enter Britain. We'll be taking a | :01:26. | :01:30. | |
look at the committee's work. And bring out the paint. Top up on | :01:30. | :01:33. | |
the wallpaper. We'll be asking, is it time for a parliamentry | :01:33. | :01:40. | |
All that in the next hour. And with us for the whole programme today is | :01:40. | :01:44. | |
Margaret Hodge. She's a Labour MP and chairs the powerful Westminster | :01:44. | :01:46. | |
committee responsible for overseeing government spending. | :01:46. | :01:54. | |
Welcome to the Daily Politics. Thank you. Now before we get on to | :01:54. | :01:57. | |
today's reshuffle, just a quick word about a little incident at the | :01:57. | :02:00. | |
Paralympic Games last night. Take a look at this. Ladies and gentlemen, | :02:00. | :02:10. | |
:02:10. | :02:12. | ||
we now have the victory ceremony The medals tonight will be | :02:12. | :02:16. | |
presented by the Right Honourable George Osborne MP. Chancellor of | :02:16. | :02:26. | |
:02:26. | :02:36. | ||
Margaret Hodge, taking off your political hat, or moment, not a | :02:36. | :02:40. | |
great feeling for any minister to be booed like that in a big | :02:40. | :02:44. | |
celebratory event. It's absolutely horrible for him personally but, on | :02:44. | :02:48. | |
the other hand, he is chance of the Exchequer and has to take | :02:48. | :02:52. | |
responsibility for what people feel about that living standards at this | :02:52. | :02:58. | |
point in time. He accept is going to be unpopular. He knows he's the | :02:58. | :03:03. | |
most unpopular Minister and, as Chancellor, unless Belgrade | :03:03. | :03:07. | |
economic times, you're never going to be popular, are you? You can't | :03:07. | :03:14. | |
be that unpopular. Maybe he's a bit out of touch with what ordinary | :03:14. | :03:18. | |
people are feeling in their day-to- day lives, as well. We have a | :03:18. | :03:24. | |
double dip reception -- recession. People worried about their jobs, | :03:24. | :03:30. | |
unable to get a home, move home, things are not good. George Osborne | :03:30. | :03:34. | |
is not prepared to change policy. We will talk about the reshuffle, | :03:34. | :03:39. | |
but it's no change of policy. He's not going anywhere and the top | :03:39. | :03:43. | |
people are not, and it feels as if, actually, policy which is not | :03:43. | :03:50. | |
succeeding is not going to be challenged. Let me just read this I | :03:50. | :03:55. | |
read last night which made me smile. The person writing it said while | :03:55. | :04:00. | |
George Osborne was being booed, at the stadium, Gordon Brown was being | :04:00. | :04:05. | |
cheered, but I wonder which way those people voted in 2010. Maybe | :04:05. | :04:09. | |
they regretted and hopefully they will vote in a different way in | :04:10. | :04:14. | |
2015. It may say more about Gordon Brown and George Osborne. We have | :04:14. | :04:19. | |
to wait. I'm pleased Gordon Brown got it yesterday because there is a | :04:19. | :04:24. | |
tendency to rubbish a lot of the stuffy did. Were you surprised? | :04:24. | :04:30. | |
People have not talked enough in relation to him, he really the bid, | :04:30. | :04:35. | |
with the 2008 crisis, I think he showed international leadership. | :04:35. | :04:40. | |
will leave the party politics there for a moment. Let's move on to | :04:40. | :04:43. | |
things sartorial. Now it's time for our daily quiz. As you'll remember | :04:43. | :04:45. | |
from yesterday's programme, seven suits belonging to Margaret | :04:45. | :04:48. | |
Thatcher have been put up for auction at Christie's. But how much | :04:48. | :04:55. | |
did they go for? At the end of the show Margaret will give us the | :04:55. | :05:02. | |
correct answer. Don't worry, you have got plenty of time to think | :05:02. | :05:05. | |
about it. It's the day when government ministers and aspiring | :05:05. | :05:08. | |
backbench MPs sit nervously by the phone waiting to learn their fate. | :05:08. | :05:11. | |
The first major reshuffle since the coalition government came into | :05:11. | :05:14. | |
office. So what do we know so far? At the top of government, most of | :05:15. | :05:17. | |
the ministers in the most senior roles are staying put. George | :05:17. | :05:20. | |
Osborne stays as Chancellor of the Exchequer and David Cameron's | :05:20. | :05:23. | |
right-hand man. William Hague will still be Foreign Secretary. And | :05:23. | :05:27. | |
Theresa May keeps her job as Home Secretary. And, of course, the Lib | :05:28. | :05:32. | |
Dem leader Nick Clegg stays as Deputy Prime Minister. Also staying | :05:32. | :05:35. | |
where they are, Michael Gove at Education. And Iain Duncan Smith at | :05:35. | :05:38. | |
the Department for Work and Pensions in charge of welfare | :05:38. | :05:41. | |
reform. Ken Clarke is on the move leaving his job as Justice | :05:41. | :05:44. | |
Secretary to take on a new role acting as a government wise head | :05:44. | :05:50. | |
based in the Cabinet Office. He is replaced by Chris Grayling. Andrew | :05:50. | :05:52. | |
Mitchell quits International Development to become the new | :05:52. | :05:57. | |
Government Chief Whip, replacing Patrick McLoughlin. Caroline | :05:57. | :06:01. | |
Spelman is leaving her job as Environment Secretary. And Sayeeda | :06:01. | :06:04. | |
Warsi loses her job as Co-Chair of the Conservative Party despite | :06:04. | :06:08. | |
pleading to stay at the weekend. Andrew Lansley is demoted from | :06:08. | :06:12. | |
Health Secretary to Leader of the House of Commons. He is replaced by | :06:12. | :06:16. | |
Jeremy Hunt who moves from Culture, Media and Sport. And Justine | :06:16. | :06:19. | |
Greening is set to leave her job as Transport Secretary, raising | :06:19. | :06:24. | |
questions about a possible u-turn on Heathrow expansion. On the Lib | :06:24. | :06:27. | |
Dem side of the coalition, Sarah Teather is replaced as an education | :06:27. | :06:30. | |
minister by David Laws, who had to leave Cabinet in 2010 after | :06:30. | :06:36. | |
breaking expenses rules. This is what the Deputy Prime Minister, | :06:36. | :06:42. | |
Nick Clegg, had to say a little earlier. | :06:42. | :06:46. | |
It is the Government's priority to deliver policies to boost jobs and | :06:46. | :06:50. | |
growth in the British economy. That is what this reshuffle will be all | :06:50. | :06:53. | |
about. That was Nick Clegg responding to the reshuffle earlier | :06:53. | :06:56. | |
today. And here's Ken Clarke leaving his home a short while ago, | :06:56. | :07:00. | |
talking about his move from Justice Secretary to a new job as a wise | :07:00. | :07:05. | |
head advising the government. agree with David when I arrived I | :07:05. | :07:11. | |
would do it for a couple of years. That's what we stuck to. I'm | :07:11. | :07:15. | |
surprised he's asked me to stay in the Cabinet doing a different role, | :07:15. | :07:21. | |
economy, the National Security Council, but I never thought I | :07:21. | :07:25. | |
would be back in the Government at my age. You have to step down the | :07:25. | :07:29. | |
heavy roles before you suddenly realise you can't hack it. | :07:30. | :07:33. | |
Clark, jolly as ever. And our Political Editor, Nick Robinson is | :07:33. | :07:39. | |
in Downing Street. Let's pick up on what you have revealed, which is | :07:39. | :07:42. | |
Iain Duncan Smith, attempts to move him from his post at the Department | :07:42. | :07:47. | |
of Work and pensions. Reshuffles never survive the first contact | :07:47. | :07:52. | |
with the enemy, rather like walls. In truth, the enemy is often | :07:52. | :07:56. | |
ministers that the Prime Minister is trying to shift. The Prime | :07:56. | :07:59. | |
Minister asked Iain Duncan Smith to become the new Secretary of State | :07:59. | :08:03. | |
for justice, replacing Ken Clarke, the reason I believe is the | :08:03. | :08:07. | |
Treasury have long had deep anxieties that Iain Duncan Smith | :08:07. | :08:12. | |
resists the cuts they want to make. Remember the Chancellor announced | :08:12. | :08:15. | |
�10 billion of welfare cuts as an ambition, and might not be able to | :08:16. | :08:19. | |
control the spending on his promised new Universal Credit which | :08:20. | :08:24. | |
comes in in a while. Iain Duncan Smith was offered a job last night | :08:24. | :08:27. | |
by the Prime Minister but this morning he said no, and we have | :08:27. | :08:32. | |
Chris Grayling as the new just a secretary which has more | :08:32. | :08:37. | |
consequence for the Treasury. He is a hardliner. When you Shadow Home | :08:37. | :08:41. | |
Secretary, a job he was dropped from, he produced the sorts of | :08:41. | :08:45. | |
speeches that Tory party conference is loved. Promising to lock up more | :08:45. | :08:51. | |
people, and you know what that means. More money from the Treasury. | :08:51. | :08:55. | |
The Treasury are concerned about cost. What does it say, though, it | :08:55. | :08:58. | |
Iain Duncan Smith was able to turn down the Prime Minister's offer? | :08:58. | :09:04. | |
What does it say about the strength of the leadership? It says Iain | :09:04. | :09:08. | |
Duncan Smith knows he can trade on the fact he is extremely popular | :09:08. | :09:12. | |
with in his own party, as a leader who went through the top is Times, | :09:12. | :09:17. | |
and he has a lot of support within those groups who lobby for the | :09:17. | :09:21. | |
poorest in society. And he was willing to cash those chips in, but, | :09:21. | :09:27. | |
as you suggest, it also says David Cameron is either not strong enough | :09:27. | :09:33. | |
or didn't want to use his strength to say, off you go. You either move | :09:33. | :09:38. | |
or leave. We have not had the whole picture yet. It has been quite so | :09:38. | :09:42. | |
low. There are waiting for Iain Duncan Smith and others perhaps to | :09:42. | :09:45. | |
decide whether they were going to take up job offers, but moving | :09:45. | :09:50. | |
Jeremy Hunt to health is a key move. In terms of Andrew Lansley been | :09:50. | :09:55. | |
demoted, is that a sense of failure to put out the message about the | :09:55. | :10:00. | |
health reforms and also because Jeremy Hunt couldn't stay because | :10:00. | :10:04. | |
of the Levison report? We don't know the answer to the first bit of | :10:05. | :10:07. | |
that until we hear the first pronouncement of the bits no doubt | :10:07. | :10:12. | |
at all Andrew Lansley was seen as a woefully bad public communicator. | :10:12. | :10:15. | |
Someone who lost the confidence of doctors and nurses and other health | :10:15. | :10:21. | |
professionals. What we don't know is whether Jeremy Hunt has been | :10:21. | :10:25. | |
appointed to remedy that or changed the policy. Clearly, what is | :10:25. | :10:28. | |
fascinating about this, many people will be shocked he has been | :10:28. | :10:34. | |
promoted, expecting he might suffer, lose his job altogether from within | :10:34. | :10:38. | |
the Cabinet from his performance. I believe the Prime Minister over the | :10:38. | :10:42. | |
weeks and months he had to look into what Jeremy Hunt had done, | :10:42. | :10:47. | |
came to the conclusion he had, in fact, acted honourably, defended | :10:47. | :10:52. | |
himself decently, and was a competent administrator. That is | :10:52. | :10:58. | |
why you get this puzzling shift from a junior job to a much more | :10:58. | :11:03. | |
important exposed job, health. you update us on any of the other | :11:03. | :11:09. | |
moves happening as we speak? just saw Maria Miller who was | :11:09. | :11:12. | |
appointed as Culture Secretary. Jeremy Hunt's old job for that | :11:12. | :11:15. | |
crucially, involved in deciding how the Government response to the | :11:15. | :11:21. | |
lovers and report in the next few weeks. Does it, in other words, as | :11:21. | :11:25. | |
the Prime Minister seems to suggest, say what ever the Lord Justice | :11:25. | :11:30. | |
lovers and recommends, it will not have statutory based press | :11:30. | :11:38. | |
She would have to do with the Olympic legacy as well. The big one | :11:39. | :11:42. | |
we are waiting for is the Conservative Party's new chairman. | :11:42. | :11:46. | |
It is likely to be grand chaps, who is in the building as we speak. If | :11:46. | :11:50. | |
he doesn't get the job, it will be a shock. One of the reasons for the | :11:50. | :11:57. | |
delay is not just that Iain Duncan Smith refused a move, but Baroness | :11:57. | :12:01. | |
Warsi suggested she should shift, and was not happy, and there were | :12:01. | :12:07. | |
tears last night in the Prime Minister's Office. Prime ministers | :12:07. | :12:10. | |
sit there and have a great white board inside Downing Street. Based | :12:10. | :12:15. | |
stick on it, yellow Post-it notes with names and faces of jobs but | :12:15. | :12:19. | |
what they don't stick on it is who is going to break down and cry. And | :12:19. | :12:23. | |
last night, someone did. It was the beginning of a difficult few hours. | :12:23. | :12:32. | |
You won't tell us what was? Before we move on... It was not Ken Clarke. | :12:32. | :12:36. | |
I can't imagine it with Ken Clarke who was eating is Tandoori last | :12:36. | :12:39. | |
night and doesn't seem to have a care in the world. What about | :12:39. | :12:44. | |
transport? That is crucial because of Heathrow. Again, a surprise move. | :12:44. | :12:49. | |
David Cameron, remember, warned people against what he described as | :12:49. | :12:53. | |
the annual reshuffle ritual and when he was trying to make point it | :12:53. | :12:56. | |
was mad to keep moving ministers when they barely had a chance to | :12:56. | :13:00. | |
bigger briefs, but one example he gave was transport ministers of he | :13:00. | :13:04. | |
said Tony Blair had dozens of them and he has now had three in two | :13:04. | :13:11. | |
years. The most extraordinary thing is just in Greening has been | :13:11. | :13:14. | |
sidelined for repeating the Prime Minister's own election pledge that | :13:14. | :13:21. | |
there would be no third runway at Heathrow -- Justine Greening. | :13:21. | :13:24. | |
Patrick McLoughlin, not a public face but a well-known face in | :13:24. | :13:29. | |
Westminster, the former chief whip, gets that job. He is a Midlands MP | :13:29. | :13:34. | |
so has never been asked his view of a third runway in the south-east. | :13:34. | :13:38. | |
He has no constituency interest there. He is a plain-speaking, | :13:38. | :13:42. | |
tough guy, a formal working mind up. Popular on the Tory backbenchers, | :13:42. | :13:48. | |
but now as something delicate to handle. Thank you for filling as in | :13:48. | :13:52. | |
on that and we will leave you with the thought of someone crying in | :13:52. | :13:56. | |
the Prime Minister's office. With us now is Tim Montgomerie, editor | :13:56. | :13:58. | |
of the Conservative Home website. And the co-editor of the website | :13:59. | :14:02. | |
Lib Dem Voice, Stephen Tall. And of course Margaret Hodge is still with | :14:02. | :14:09. | |
us as well. Can I just let you know, Sayeeda Warsi, the former chairman, | :14:09. | :14:13. | |
Minister of State in the foreign office. Are you surprised not that | :14:13. | :14:17. | |
she was of that something but that she accepted it? There was | :14:17. | :14:20. | |
speculation last night when it was revealed she was not going to be | :14:20. | :14:24. | |
continuing to be the party chairman. That she might walk on government. | :14:24. | :14:29. | |
I am glad she is staying than the Government, if not the Cabinet, | :14:29. | :14:33. | |
because she is a considerable talent. Perhaps not suited to the | :14:33. | :14:37. | |
job of party chairman. What about the issue of women? David Cameron | :14:37. | :14:43. | |
has admitted he wanted to have a better connection with women voters. | :14:43. | :14:46. | |
Moving a key people like Sayeeda Warsi and Justin Greene and out of | :14:46. | :14:52. | |
Cabinet, not a clever move if you want to send a message to women -- | :14:52. | :15:00. | |
Justine Greening. I think we will see two women join the Cabinet, | :15:00. | :15:07. | |
Teresa Villiers and Maria Miller. I think we'll see talented women, | :15:07. | :15:13. | |
2010 intake appointed to the first round. But not in the Cabinet. | :15:13. | :15:19. | |
Maria Miller and Teresa Villiers. We lose Caroline Spelman and Cheryl | :15:19. | :15:24. | |
Gillan. I think, overall, across government, I think the number of | :15:24. | :15:26. | |
the mill ministers will be increased and that's important | :15:26. | :15:30. | |
because the most long-term implication of this reshuffle will | :15:30. | :15:33. | |
be the people that David Cameron picks from the new intake, the | :15:33. | :15:38. | |
front people for the Tory party in the future. Perhaps even leaders. | :15:38. | :15:41. | |
We were a good indication he David Cameron identified as those people | :15:41. | :15:51. | |
:15:51. | :15:54. | ||
later today. We will that appease I think overall it is a good | :15:54. | :15:58. | |
reshuffle for what you call the right, I would call the mainstream | :15:58. | :16:01. | |
of the Conservative Party. Chris Grayling and Theresa Villiers are | :16:01. | :16:05. | |
both of the mainstream, they have got new jobs, a big promotion for | :16:05. | :16:09. | |
Owen Paterson. There is more balance in the Cabinet than there | :16:09. | :16:12. | |
was. Parts of the party fell slightly excluded, and I think that | :16:12. | :16:17. | |
has been addressed by the reshuffle, it is good news. From the Liberal | :16:17. | :16:23. | |
Democrat perspective, what does it do for coalition relations? | :16:23. | :16:28. | |
five Lib Dem ministers will stay in place, most of it seems to have | :16:28. | :16:31. | |
involved the Conservative Party. We will be sorry to see Ken Clarke | :16:31. | :16:35. | |
move from the Justice Department. I think if Lib Dems had a choice | :16:35. | :16:38. | |
between Ken Clarke and Chris Grayling, we would definitely | :16:38. | :16:43. | |
choose Ken Clarke. His emphasis on approaching the Justice Department | :16:43. | :16:46. | |
brief with a clear focus on evidence-based policy has been | :16:46. | :16:49. | |
refreshing from a Conservative minister, and we will wait to see | :16:49. | :16:53. | |
whether it happens with Chris Grayling as well. What about David | :16:53. | :16:57. | |
Laws coming back in as number two to Michael Gove? Is that what | :16:57. | :17:01. | |
Liberal Democrats wanted to see? Rather than in having a more | :17:01. | :17:04. | |
central role on the economy, doing the sort of thing Ken Clarke will | :17:04. | :17:10. | |
be doing? David Laws has been doing this behind the scenes anyway. In | :17:10. | :17:14. | |
one sense, there will not be much change of his influence, in | :17:14. | :17:18. | |
particular with Nick Clegg. What is interesting is putting together two | :17:18. | :17:23. | |
quite ideologically similar numbers, Michael Gove and David Laws as the | :17:23. | :17:27. | |
top two in education. They both agree on issues like free schools | :17:27. | :17:31. | |
and academies, controversial within the Lib Dems, not in the | :17:31. | :17:35. | |
Conservative Party. What do Lib Dems think of Michael Gove? They | :17:35. | :17:39. | |
are split. Some champion the idea of schools' freedom. More within | :17:39. | :17:44. | |
the Lib Dems are worried about the fact of what is happening in the | :17:44. | :17:47. | |
education system, the over concentration on the elite top | :17:47. | :17:51. | |
ability kids and less of a focus on those kids from disadvantaged | :17:51. | :17:56. | |
backgrounds. Your response, Margaret Hodge, a more balanced | :17:56. | :18:00. | |
Cabinet, more balanced government? The Lib Dems staying put, Vince | :18:00. | :18:04. | |
Cable staying in his important role, David Laws coming back in. That | :18:04. | :18:08. | |
will be popular with Liberal Democrats. I have to make a general | :18:08. | :18:13. | |
point, I do not know if Tim would disagree, but this is not age | :18:13. | :18:17. | |
change of policy. In the community, people, do they really know Patrick | :18:18. | :18:22. | |
McLoughlin is? Isn't that the case with all reshuffles? It is always | :18:22. | :18:26. | |
about shuttling the people. Sometimes it is about a real shift | :18:26. | :18:31. | |
in policy. If you look, the economy is the key issue for us, and there | :18:31. | :18:35. | |
has been no shift in policy there, and we need growth, people are | :18:35. | :18:39. | |
worried about recession. Can I say something about women? It is not | :18:39. | :18:43. | |
good enough to say it is only one less. Every year ought to be more | :18:43. | :18:47. | |
women being promoted. I agree that there are a lot of talented new | :18:47. | :18:57. | |
women in the Conservatives since the 2010 election, but I think it | :18:57. | :19:00. | |
is not a good step to see a reduction in the number of women in | :19:00. | :19:06. | |
Cabinet at this time. Let's pickup on the economy, the key plank of | :19:06. | :19:10. | |
policy will remain the same. Are you happy about that? In your mind, | :19:10. | :19:14. | |
was there ever a point when David Cameron thought he would move | :19:14. | :19:20. | |
George Osborne? No, not at all. be fair, it is difficult to move | :19:20. | :19:26. | |
chancellors. As Tony Blair found out with Gordon Brown! Unlike | :19:26. | :19:29. | |
Margaret Hodge's government, we have a Prime Minister and | :19:30. | :19:33. | |
Chancellor to get on incredibly well, there is no tension at the | :19:33. | :19:36. | |
heart of government. Some people think that if you move George | :19:36. | :19:39. | |
Osborne, there would be a different policy on deficit reduction of | :19:39. | :19:42. | |
growth. That was never going to happen, it is a policy that all the | :19:42. | :19:47. | |
top players in government have signed up to. A lot of the people | :19:47. | :19:51. | |
frustrated with the lack of a growth agenda, George Osborne is an | :19:51. | :19:55. | |
ally of the right on most of these years. On tax cutting. Tax-cutting, | :19:56. | :19:59. | |
energy policy. If he cannot deliver the things that David Davis once, | :19:59. | :20:06. | |
nobody else will be able to. But to pick up on, was it a symbol at the | :20:06. | :20:11. | |
Paralympics, the unpopularity, people feel because there is no | :20:11. | :20:14. | |
growth and there is a double-dip recession, would a big move, not | :20:14. | :20:17. | |
George Osborne but some sort of change being signalled would mean | :20:17. | :20:22. | |
the reshuffle was greater than just a moving of the deck chairs. That | :20:22. | :20:25. | |
is maybe what some people would want, but let's be clear, because | :20:25. | :20:29. | |
of the terrible mess that the Labour Party left this country end, | :20:29. | :20:32. | |
we are having to take incredibly difficult decisions as a coalition | :20:32. | :20:37. | |
government. These are the biggest cuts, bigger than anything Margaret | :20:37. | :20:40. | |
Thatcher ever managed, and of course George Osborne gets the | :20:40. | :20:45. | |
blame for that. In a couple of years' time, if the economy starts | :20:45. | :20:50. | |
to grow, what will be the choice at the election? A choice between two | :20:50. | :20:53. | |
parties who have taken tough decisions and a party which created | :20:53. | :20:58. | |
the mess and opposed the difficult decisions. I cannot let him get | :20:58. | :21:03. | |
away with that! I mean, clearly there is an issue about the deficit, | :21:03. | :21:09. | |
but to say a double-dip recession, the negative growth we are in at | :21:09. | :21:15. | |
the moment is not the result of this government's's policy over two | :21:15. | :21:18. | |
is into this government, I just think it is wrong. And there is an | :21:18. | :21:24. | |
alternative economic strategy... Moving George Osborne. It might | :21:24. | :21:30. | |
have meant, hang on. They came in and said they were going to reverse | :21:30. | :21:35. | |
austerity in France. They have not been able to. Labour is the only | :21:35. | :21:39. | |
party in Europe that is in cloud cuckoo land, ignoring the realities. | :21:39. | :21:43. | |
We are going to do more of this in just a moment, but Nick Clegg had | :21:43. | :21:46. | |
to endure a rather stormy ride in the Commons yesterday as he | :21:46. | :21:49. | |
confirmed that the government had dropped its plans to reform the | :21:49. | :21:54. | |
House of Lords. The DPM also confirmed that his party would not | :21:54. | :21:57. | |
support the bill to redraw the constituency boundaries, which | :21:57. | :22:00. | |
would have benefited the Conservatives at the next election. | :22:00. | :22:03. | |
Mr Clegg began by explaining he had decided to drop Lords reform | :22:03. | :22:09. | |
because the Commons could not agree on a timetable for the bill. | :22:09. | :22:13. | |
It is now clear that we will not be able to secure the Commons majority | :22:13. | :22:19. | |
needed to pass the programme motion that the company's the bill. | :22:19. | :22:23. | |
Without that motion, the bill effectively becomes impossible to | :22:23. | :22:26. | |
deliver. We share his disappointment at a lack of | :22:26. | :22:32. | |
progress on reform of the House of Lords. It can't be right to... It | :22:32. | :22:36. | |
can't be right that in the 21st century we have an unelected | :22:36. | :22:41. | |
chamber making decisions on the law of the land. I join with him in | :22:41. | :22:44. | |
thanking the joint committee of both Houses. Despite the cross- | :22:44. | :22:48. | |
party talks, the white paper and the draft bill, they did remain | :22:48. | :22:52. | |
issues to be resolved, not least the powers of the new second | :22:52. | :22:56. | |
chamber, the electoral process and a referendum, but we should have | :22:56. | :22:59. | |
been able to make progress, and we share his disappointment on the | :23:00. | :23:03. | |
stalling of reform. It is unfinished business, and we should | :23:03. | :23:13. | |
return to it. She gets 10 out of 10 for spectacular insincerity! For | :23:13. | :23:21. | |
the Labour Party... The Labour Party... The Labour Party used to | :23:21. | :23:25. | |
campaign against privilege and patronage. The Labour Party used to | :23:25. | :23:30. | |
say it was the party of the people! What did they do when they had the | :23:30. | :23:33. | |
opportunity? They voted for the idea of reform but not for the | :23:33. | :23:37. | |
means to deliver it. I think my right honourable friend should | :23:37. | :23:41. | |
comfort himself, he gave it his best shot with all of his sincerity, | :23:41. | :23:47. | |
and we respect him for that. But may I draw my right honourable | :23:47. | :23:52. | |
friend's attention to the fact that the constituencies bill remains in | :23:52. | :23:55. | |
force, and that all the boundaries Commission remain under a duty to | :23:55. | :24:00. | |
bring forward proposals for a house of 600 members. Can he instruct | :24:00. | :24:07. | |
them to stop? He does not have that power, so is he therefore not | :24:07. | :24:12. | |
simply going to obstruct a constitutional process for his own | :24:12. | :24:16. | |
party political advantage? I have made it clear that since I | :24:16. | :24:19. | |
reasonably believe that the constitutional reform package was | :24:19. | :24:25. | |
exactly that, a package, and that since this is the first time that | :24:25. | :24:29. | |
either of the coalition parties was unable to deliver on a major | :24:29. | :24:34. | |
coalition agreement commitments, it is therefore right to rebalance | :24:34. | :24:39. | |
things and not to proceed with an unbalanced package. Every cloud and | :24:39. | :24:46. | |
a silver lining! The House of Lords survives, and when the Liberal | :24:46. | :24:51. | |
Democrats dump him as leader, he will qualify for a peerage! Will he | :24:51. | :24:59. | |
take it?! I knew what was going to be a nice one! No, I will not. I | :24:59. | :25:04. | |
think... Personally I do not think... Let me explain, let me | :25:04. | :25:08. | |
explain. I do not think I would be very welcome in the current House | :25:08. | :25:14. | |
of Lords, given my somewhat undiplomatic descriptions of the | :25:14. | :25:19. | |
illegitimacy of the house. Secondly, I personally will not take up a | :25:19. | :25:24. | |
place in an unreformed House of Lords. Call me old fashioned, it | :25:24. | :25:27. | |
sticks in her throat. I have campaigned all my life, my party | :25:27. | :25:31. | |
has campaigned for decades now for the simple idea of democracy, and | :25:31. | :25:41. | |
:25:41. | :25:42. | ||
Nick Clegg the House of Commons yesterday. Still with me are Tim | :25:42. | :25:45. | |
Montgomery of Conservative Home and Stephen Tall of the Lib Dem Voice. | :25:45. | :25:49. | |
Let's update viewers on the latest moves, Justine Greening may have | :25:49. | :25:53. | |
gone from transport but has been given international development, | :25:53. | :25:56. | |
the new Secretary of State for International Development, | :25:56. | :25:59. | |
replacing Andrew Mitchell. David Jones is the new Welsh Secretary | :25:59. | :26:03. | |
will stop Owen Paterson is replaced by Theresa Villiers as Northern | :26:03. | :26:08. | |
Ireland secretary and becomes Secretary of State for DEFRA. The | :26:08. | :26:12. | |
big news is that Grant Shapps, the Housing Minister, has become the | :26:12. | :26:18. | |
new Tory chairman. Your response. Well, the two most important | :26:18. | :26:20. | |
appointments that David Cameron will make today is the chief whip | :26:20. | :26:24. | |
that was announced last night, Andrew Mitchell, and Grant Shapps, | :26:24. | :26:28. | |
party chairman. Policy is not going to change, I think we have agreed | :26:28. | :26:32. | |
that, but this Government needs more disciplined, the Conservative | :26:32. | :26:35. | |
Party is incredibly rebellious at the moment. It is about the party. | :26:35. | :26:40. | |
And it needs more hope for the future. The Chief Whip is bringing | :26:40. | :26:46. | |
discipline, we hope! Really? He is popular and widely respected, his | :26:46. | :26:52. | |
nickname is Thrasher. It is true that the whips Office has not been | :26:52. | :26:55. | |
the central institution that it was in the past in Tory government. By | :26:55. | :26:59. | |
the end of the day, I think we will see by the nature of the junior | :26:59. | :27:03. | |
whip appointments the brightest and best Conservatives are no longer | :27:03. | :27:06. | |
going straight into frontbench departments, they are going into | :27:06. | :27:10. | |
the whips office, which is considerably strengthened. Added to | :27:10. | :27:13. | |
that, a party chairman has the confidence of most of the | :27:13. | :27:17. | |
parliamentary party, liked by the grassroots, good on TV, we will see | :27:17. | :27:22. | |
the sort of faith in the future, hope for the future. Just generally, | :27:22. | :27:28. | |
I think one of the problems with a reshuffle, and I lived through many, | :27:28. | :27:30. | |
is that it disappoints many more people than it pleases. That is | :27:30. | :27:35. | |
true, yeah. What has surprised me about the Conservative government | :27:35. | :27:39. | |
is the extent of rebellions this early on in the light of the | :27:39. | :27:42. | |
Conservative government. After today, you are going to get many | :27:42. | :27:45. | |
more disappointed people, people who have been sacked, people who | :27:45. | :27:50. | |
did not come in. On the whole, every reshuffle, you may have 20 | :27:50. | :27:54. | |
people who are happy in a very large bunch of people. I think the | :27:54. | :27:57. | |
idea that this is done to help party discipline when you have | :27:57. | :28:04. | |
already got a culture of rebellion is hope over reality. I do not | :28:04. | :28:08. | |
think we can view this coalition reshuffle through an ordinary prism | :28:08. | :28:14. | |
of reshuffles. Not only is the process different, Nick Clegg is | :28:14. | :28:18. | |
responsible for the Conservative side of things... Sorry, he wishes! | :28:18. | :28:23. | |
That makes it different, the whole mechanics of how you reshuffle, | :28:23. | :28:27. | |
once we set the Domino's rolling, who does move into ridge position. | :28:27. | :28:31. | |
The biggest point that makes a difference is who fills which | :28:31. | :28:35. | |
department matters less within a coalition, because the coalition | :28:35. | :28:38. | |
agreement is overarching, and policies have to be jointly agreed. | :28:38. | :28:42. | |
And what is more important as we were listening to that debate is | :28:42. | :28:46. | |
talking about boundary changes. In the end, is that going to be a more | :28:46. | :28:50. | |
defining moment of the Liberal Democrats if they do not back | :28:51. | :28:54. | |
legislation for boundary changes? Yeah, I think it will be. What | :28:54. | :28:57. | |
happened in the summer was that both parties took a look into the | :28:57. | :29:00. | |
void. The Conservatives had proposed house of Lords reform in | :29:00. | :29:05. | |
the manifesto and agreed to it in the coalition, and they said no, | :29:05. | :29:08. | |
and Nick Clegg did the same for boundary changes. They both looked | :29:08. | :29:12. | |
into the abyss of what happens if the coalition splits up, saw it was | :29:12. | :29:18. | |
a frightening prospect for both parties and have drawn back. Over | :29:18. | :29:20. | |
in the Houses of Parliament, the central lobby has been awash with | :29:20. | :29:28. | |
rumours. Carol Walker is there. thank you, Jo. MPs are all parties | :29:28. | :29:32. | |
are digest in the details of that reshuffle, and in particular in the | :29:32. | :29:35. | |
last few minutes that news that Grant Shapps will be the new | :29:35. | :29:39. | |
Conservative Party chairman. I enjoyed by Mark Pritchard path the | :29:39. | :29:44. | |
Conservative Party and Andrew George from the Lib Dems, thank you | :29:44. | :29:48. | |
for joining me. If I can start with you, Mark, we were hearing a | :29:48. | :29:53. | |
discussion about what this would do to conserve the party discipline | :29:53. | :29:58. | |
and morale, a new party chairman in Grant Shapps, a new chief whip in | :29:59. | :30:08. | |
Andrew Mitchell. How do you think Grant Shapps is a great | :30:08. | :30:13. | |
communicator. Despite the obvious talents of Baroness Warsi, I feel | :30:13. | :30:18. | |
we need a chairman and acted to the House of Commons. It will be | :30:18. | :30:24. | |
interesting to see whether that is delay co-chairman role, but I think | :30:24. | :30:27. | |
it will simply be an opportunity for Grant Shapps to get out into | :30:28. | :30:32. | |
the country and communicate our message and I think he will be very | :30:32. | :30:37. | |
good at that. I'm also absolutely delighted that Andrew Mitchell is | :30:37. | :30:40. | |
now the Chief Whip. Patrick McLoughlin stays as transport | :30:40. | :30:44. | |
secretary. Very well respected across the House but Andrew | :30:44. | :30:51. | |
Mitchell is a very shrewd politician, very underestimated. | :30:51. | :30:55. | |
Better to be underestimated ban over estimated, as Churchill said. | :30:55. | :30:59. | |
I think he will be bringing some and the party and I have a huge | :31:00. | :31:03. | |
amount of respect for Andrew Mitchell. We haven't had too many | :31:03. | :31:06. | |
of the Lib Dem it moves, suggestions David Laws may come | :31:06. | :31:13. | |
back in a junior role, may be taking Sarah Teather's job. What | :31:13. | :31:16. | |
will this do to the balance and the relationship between the coalition | :31:16. | :31:21. | |
partners? Mathematically, things will remain the same. The | :31:21. | :31:27. | |
announcement so far is private and internal matters for the | :31:27. | :31:32. | |
Conservative Party. Whilst I understand that there is a sense of | :31:32. | :31:38. | |
obligation on the part of any Prime Minister who wants to appear to | :31:38. | :31:42. | |
pass the virility test and repaid to shake up his Cabinet and so on, | :31:42. | :31:48. | |
and David Cameron made clear he would do that this summer, I think | :31:48. | :31:51. | |
whilst it's interesting, it's also brutal to people like Caroline | :31:51. | :32:00. | |
Spelman, or I think is done a very good job in DEFRA. People have been | :32:00. | :32:05. | |
talking about the underlying problems of government. The economy. | :32:05. | :32:10. | |
George Osborne is stain and Vince Cable is staying but Patrick | :32:10. | :32:15. | |
McLoughlin, transport, it leaves scope for a wider look at the | :32:15. | :32:18. | |
aviation issue. Do you think we will see significant changes when | :32:18. | :32:23. | |
it comes to that whole agenda? will have to wait and see but I | :32:23. | :32:27. | |
don't think a third runway at Heathrow is a silver bullet for | :32:27. | :32:31. | |
helping the economy. But I do think it will come. I always felt it was | :32:31. | :32:38. | |
the case. I think there will be a wider strategic review of how we | :32:38. | :32:45. | |
use the airports such as Birmingham and Bristol. Your party is opposed | :32:45. | :32:50. | |
strongly to it. We were opposed to it and the last general election so | :32:50. | :32:52. | |
it will be interesting discussion in the Cabinet. Nothing has been | :32:52. | :32:57. | |
said about it, but there has been a lot of shadow-boxing on the issue. | :32:57. | :33:02. | |
Obviously, we can read a certain amount into the move of Justine | :33:02. | :33:05. | |
Greening to international development. She will need to be | :33:05. | :33:09. | |
aware lot and no doubt there will be a lot of movement back home. | :33:09. | :33:14. | |
you think that shows the Prime Minister is aware that yesterday | :33:15. | :33:19. | |
more to keep his party on board. People say the policies matter but | :33:19. | :33:24. | |
people do matter. We need to deliver on policies bought up Ken | :33:24. | :33:30. | |
Clarke, delighted to see him remaining with the Cabinet. He is | :33:30. | :33:36. | |
the biggest, heaviest hitter in government. We need him. He is the | :33:36. | :33:41. | |
provocation of experience and I'm glad he's there. OK, thank you. | :33:41. | :33:46. | |
That's it for now. Thank you very much. If there's one thing MPs love, | :33:46. | :33:49. | |
it's pointing out the mistakes of others. And those lucky enough to | :33:49. | :33:52. | |
sit on select committees have the power to haul officials, ministers | :33:52. | :33:55. | |
and pretty much anyone else they like over the coals. Sometimes | :33:55. | :33:57. | |
though, those MPs are themselves criticised for failing to land a | :33:57. | :34:04. | |
punch on their intended targets. There is one exception however. The | :34:04. | :34:06. | |
Public Accounts Committee regularly names and shames departments it | :34:06. | :34:09. | |
believes are guilty of wasting public money. But fun to watch as | :34:09. | :34:13. | |
it might be, is duffing up senior civil servants the best way to | :34:13. | :34:23. | |
:34:23. | :34:24. | ||
protect taxpayers' cash? David The mighty opposites of state run | :34:24. | :34:30. | |
by an army of civil servants. Not much frightens the people who work | :34:30. | :34:38. | |
here except a small band of MPs. The Public Accounts Committee. | :34:38. | :34:42. | |
are spending a lot of money and it doesn't look, I can't understand | :34:42. | :34:45. | |
what you're spending it on. Sometimes journalists have been | :34:45. | :34:49. | |
known to describe committees as powerful and influential and, to be | :34:49. | :34:53. | |
honest, they are neither of the above. The Public Accounts | :34:53. | :34:57. | |
Committee however is the real deal. Working the the National Audit | :34:57. | :35:01. | |
Office its job is to scrutinise how much our money government | :35:01. | :35:05. | |
dependence are spending and whether spending it wisely and trust me, | :35:05. | :35:10. | |
they do not hold back., have a minutes' time out? No, I don't see | :35:10. | :35:16. | |
why sure the minutes' time out at all. We have the power to make you | :35:16. | :35:22. | |
give evidence under oath and we are doing so. Key the most powerful | :35:22. | :35:26. | |
committee since it was created by the Gladstone in the middle of the | :35:26. | :35:30. | |
19th century because it's the only one which has sufficient | :35:30. | :35:37. | |
information to do the job properly. The National Audit Office creates | :35:37. | :35:43. | |
weapons, and hands the MP and beat Public Accounts Committee bullets. | :35:43. | :35:47. | |
Beautifully fashioned bullets to fire at the heads of those there | :35:47. | :35:51. | |
are interrogating. Does the Public Accounts Committee changed the way | :35:51. | :35:55. | |
departments behave or is the humiliation of civil servant little | :35:55. | :35:59. | |
more than good political television? How do just by that | :35:59. | :36:07. | |
cost? Where are those figures? Again, I will find it for you. | :36:07. | :36:15. | |
had a criticism, it would be this. They don't often enough pick on | :36:15. | :36:19. | |
examples of good public expenditure. And good procurement and say, look, | :36:19. | :36:24. | |
it can be done, treat this as exemplary and replicated. They | :36:24. | :36:27. | |
could do much more of that and that would be wonderful way of | :36:27. | :36:33. | |
increasing the chances of a virtuous department. Maybe, but | :36:33. | :36:36. | |
don't expect the committee to become pussycats any time soon. | :36:36. | :36:43. | |
are not talking about shrinking violence -- by let's we are talking | :36:43. | :36:48. | |
about people on six-figure salaries and they must be accountable -- of | :36:48. | :36:58. | |
:36:58. | :37:08. | ||
Very scary. You may sound tough but the question is, has actually | :37:08. | :37:13. | |
changed anything? I am determined that it should. It hasn't done so | :37:13. | :37:19. | |
far. It has, actually. If by take one example. When we look at the | :37:19. | :37:25. | |
whole way in which the HMRC dealt with major companies, and the | :37:25. | :37:29. | |
Goldman Sachs affair, you may remember that, actually, we have | :37:30. | :37:38. | |
got a change in the way that HMRC approaches those sorts of issues. | :37:38. | :37:42. | |
We have got to make sure people authorise those deals are different | :37:42. | :37:47. | |
from the people who make them. And we have got a better accountability | :37:47. | :37:52. | |
structure in place, so we have changed that. One of the things I | :37:52. | :37:58. | |
have changed is that, when we make recommendations. In the past they | :37:58. | :38:02. | |
went into the library. Now we come back to them six months later, and | :38:02. | :38:07. | |
if the Departments have not implemented the recommendations, we | :38:07. | :38:11. | |
bring the senior officials back in front of us again. There is a | :38:11. | :38:21. | |
:38:21. | :38:21. | ||
follow-up. You mentioned the HMRC. Was that a justifiable behaviour by | :38:21. | :38:24. | |
your committee to make the lawyer testify on oath giving evidence | :38:24. | :38:30. | |
about this? Was that too heavy- handed? We were incredibly | :38:30. | :38:36. | |
frustrated because he was failing to answer questions directly. | :38:36. | :38:41. | |
Something we have a problem with with politicians. Indeed. But our | :38:41. | :38:45. | |
job is to hold the officials to account for the money they had | :38:46. | :38:51. | |
spent. Tax payers money. Was it theatre? Yes, it was, but actually, | :38:51. | :38:56. | |
on the whole, was the exercise in relation to the way the department | :38:56. | :39:00. | |
deals with big companies effectively, I think it was a | :39:00. | :39:05. | |
success story. How much money do you think the taxpayer has been | :39:05. | :39:11. | |
saved as a result of some of the things you have done? I would hate | :39:11. | :39:17. | |
to put a figure on it. I think our existence itself helps. People know | :39:17. | :39:22. | |
they have got to, just by themselves in front of us. The fact | :39:22. | :39:25. | |
we are monitoring helps because people know that we are going to | :39:25. | :39:32. | |
come back to them. I think the waste, honestly, is horrible. There | :39:32. | :39:36. | |
was one afternoon early on when we were looking up defence procurement. | :39:36. | :39:44. | |
Literally, in at 2.5 others we uncovered �80 billion worth of | :39:44. | :39:50. | |
money drawn up. You are saving millions of pounds. Billions. | :39:51. | :39:58. | |
much as that. Let's move on to this report about foreign students. | :39:58. | :40:02. | |
Under license being withdrawn from London Metropolitan University. Do | :40:02. | :40:06. | |
you think that is fair? The points system was brought in by Labour | :40:06. | :40:11. | |
originally. Are you saying it has failed? I'm not being partisan on | :40:11. | :40:16. | |
this issue, and that's one of the joys of the job, that you can look | :40:16. | :40:21. | |
at how effective governance is. And I think there is an essential | :40:22. | :40:25. | |
attention which has been an resolved by both the Labour | :40:25. | :40:28. | |
government and Conservative government. On the one hand, we | :40:28. | :40:33. | |
want to attract the best students, we want their intellectual | :40:33. | :40:37. | |
capabilities and their money. On the other hand, the Government | :40:37. | :40:41. | |
wants to demonstrate it is tough on immigration controls or so I think | :40:41. | :40:45. | |
that tension has come out in the way he handled it. Whose fault is | :40:45. | :40:49. | |
it opera but many foreign students able to come here and work, not | :40:49. | :40:54. | |
study? It's partly a policy fault, but also there was a real | :40:54. | :41:00. | |
administrative fault. The UK board Agency has simply failed to | :41:00. | :41:03. | |
implement the policy effectively. Something a little different. | :41:03. | :41:06. | |
Over-run by mice, contaminated with asbestos, a leaking roof and | :41:06. | :41:09. | |
crumbling walls. No, not the Daily Politics set, but according to MPs, | :41:09. | :41:12. | |
our very own Houses of Parliament. So, is a costly refurbishment on | :41:12. | :41:15. | |
the cards? Will MPs and Lords have to move out so the builders can | :41:15. | :41:19. | |
move in? And what might a spruced up, 21st century parliament look | :41:19. | :41:25. | |
like? Giles Dilnot investigates. Ah, the mother of all Parliaments. | :41:25. | :41:28. | |
Looked at like this. It's a stone status symbol. Democracies. | :41:28. | :41:31. | |
Architectural shock and awe. However it's apparently it's in | :41:31. | :41:38. | |
shocking state. Nobody is actually saying the thing is going to fall | :41:38. | :41:44. | |
down tomorrow but the problem is, it's a little bit like the Tube. In | :41:44. | :41:49. | |
is getting old. The bits you can't see, they're not that great. And | :41:49. | :41:55. | |
the other thing is, it is full of rodents. So many jokes, so little | :41:55. | :42:00. | |
time. This thousands of my sport that it's not by mistake there is a | :42:00. | :42:08. | |
cat at Number Ten, either. There's not enough female toilets. And | :42:08. | :42:13. | |
thanks to Robin Cook, there is just one cafe for the public. It is time | :42:13. | :42:17. | |
it was modernised for modern-day usage. Now the House of Commons | :42:17. | :42:23. | |
Commission has said the building is structurally sound. But is | :42:23. | :42:27. | |
preparing a report on what needs to be made good, and the list is long | :42:27. | :42:29. | |
and expensive. There's some reports the bill's in the billions? And | :42:29. | :42:32. | |
borrowing from a Tory electoral mantra, they just can't go on like | :42:32. | :42:36. | |
this. And of course, when you've got the builders in, you want the | :42:36. | :42:42. | |
resident's out. Be it you managed to drag them kicking and screaming | :42:42. | :42:45. | |
for five years from this place, they still have got to have | :42:45. | :42:49. | |
something to do whatever it is they do. Where on earth would you put | :42:49. | :42:55. | |
them? We've just had a successful Olympics. Just down the road, in | :42:55. | :42:59. | |
Hackney, beer is the media centre, which, although we hope will create | :42:59. | :43:02. | |
jobs in the long term, in the short term it could be a place were | :43:02. | :43:06. | |
Parliament goes. Instead of Westminster, we get East Minster at | :43:06. | :43:10. | |
the media centre. Seven minutes from St Pancras, right next to City | :43:10. | :43:16. | |
Airport. If you need to come and Westminster, 20 minutes on the Tube. | :43:16. | :43:21. | |
I will be the three options to get the work done. You could go back to | :43:21. | :43:24. | |
having a summer recess of three months, to do the work in three | :43:24. | :43:31. | |
months and come out. Then let us come back for two weeks. If that's | :43:31. | :43:35. | |
not palatable, get the commissioners to start rearranging | :43:35. | :43:41. | |
the parliamentary conference season so we sit here off the blocks, so | :43:41. | :43:48. | |
work can carry through. Or move the House of Lords to Cambridge, and | :43:48. | :43:51. | |
then stick a House of Commons in the House of Lords. And then bring | :43:51. | :43:55. | |
us all back. Oh yes! Perhaps it's not surprising it's quietly got run | :43:55. | :44:01. | |
down. If you only rely on the tradition of sending Beefeaters to | :44:02. | :44:05. | |
the basement for a look around once every Queen's speech, what did you | :44:05. | :44:10. | |
expect? And the Conservative MP, Jacob | :44:10. | :44:12. | |
Rees-Mogg is here. And Charlie Mullins, Founder of Pimlico | :44:12. | :44:20. | |
Plumbers and Roofers is also here. First of all how bad is it? If you | :44:20. | :44:25. | |
were describing this in estate agent terms, how bad -- but is it? | :44:26. | :44:30. | |
Fantastic. I don't see what the fuss is about. What do you need the | :44:30. | :44:34. | |
parliament building for, the chamber. The chamber is magnificent. | :44:34. | :44:37. | |
People have seen the odd mouse but I would not make a fuss about it. | :44:37. | :44:44. | |
Does that bother you? Jacob has an office on the same for as me but | :44:44. | :44:47. | |
there are five pockets, and they have been there for about six | :44:47. | :44:51. | |
months. Looking up with water. Clearly, somebody has got to sort | :44:51. | :44:56. | |
it out. Maybe you could come and do it for us because it's driving us | :44:56. | :44:59. | |
mad and you have to go over electric cables for that quite | :44:59. | :45:06. | |
dangerous as you go to the loo. You will have seen them, Jacob. There's | :45:06. | :45:12. | |
stuff which needs to be done. We should fix it. Old buildings always | :45:12. | :45:16. | |
a problem but I don't bigot that bad. You wouldn't advise a | :45:16. | :45:25. | |
refurbishment? A little bit of If it were one's own house, one | :45:25. | :45:31. | |
would do a bit of patching and mending. You might have to rewire | :45:31. | :45:36. | |
in your own house. We do not have the money, we must not waste money | :45:36. | :45:42. | |
on politicians' comfort. The issue of cost, in the end, is what Jacob | :45:42. | :45:47. | |
proposes going to cost the taxpayer more if it is just a bit of patch | :45:47. | :45:52. | |
and mend every year or so, rather than a complete refit? What would | :45:52. | :45:57. | |
be cheaper? Obviously, it is going to be cheaper if they are hatching | :45:57. | :46:01. | |
at the moment, but I think we are missing the point. 3 billion would | :46:01. | :46:05. | |
be a good investment. We should move them all out, get new premises, | :46:05. | :46:09. | |
keep them in the new premises, which would make this a much more | :46:09. | :46:16. | |
modern parliament that we have, they would be more effective. Make | :46:16. | :46:21. | |
it a tourist attraction. I think that is the way we should go. | :46:21. | :46:26. | |
you do it for under 3 billion? be honest, I know the place is | :46:26. | :46:32. | |
running with rats, and I think there is a vermin problem also! | :46:32. | :46:36. | |
they different kind! What I am saying, it is a great opportunity, | :46:36. | :46:40. | |
and I believe the government could get a lot of youngsters working in | :46:40. | :46:45. | |
there. Coming back to the cost, how much would you Charles for a new | :46:45. | :46:52. | |
roof? -- charge. We are guessing here, it would be millions, you | :46:52. | :46:57. | |
cannot even get something like that. The problem we have got, with its | :46:57. | :47:02. | |
stake to 3 billion? We all know that is the starting point. Would | :47:02. | :47:08. | |
you be prepared to move out? certainly not. Rather than having a | :47:08. | :47:12. | |
three-month recess, which is just a suggestion, wouldn't it be better | :47:12. | :47:16. | |
to move out? Technically, the Queen can summon parliament where she | :47:16. | :47:21. | |
wants. By convention, it is at her palace in Westminster, and that has | :47:21. | :47:26. | |
been followed since the late 17th century. It would be awful to move | :47:26. | :47:29. | |
out of this historic area that rips us with our history and where | :47:29. | :47:33. | |
legislation has been made for such a long time, to go to the East End | :47:33. | :47:42. | |
or heaven knows where else. Listen, the East End is a good blaze! I | :47:42. | :47:48. | |
feel a bit more ambivalent. would move out. I think it is a | :47:48. | :47:52. | |
wonderful building, and I have some sympathy with the idea of turning | :47:52. | :47:55. | |
it into an historic building, but I love working there. There are | :47:56. | :47:59. | |
things we could do for modern politics, rather than this | :48:00. | :48:04. | |
confrontational arrangement, two sides of the chamber, a circular | :48:04. | :48:10. | |
chamber where people are more collaborative. Combative is not a | :48:10. | :48:15. | |
bad thing, Jacob. I think confrontational politics, as in the | :48:15. | :48:19. | |
course, is very effective, because you smash ideas together to see the | :48:19. | :48:24. | |
good ones survive. Consensus politics leads to an awful lot of | :48:24. | :48:28. | |
five and no one being clearly in charge. Collaboration might lead to | :48:28. | :48:34. | |
better ideas. Are you waiting for a call from the Prime Minister? | :48:34. | :48:38. | |
should he be calling me? And not sitting on the edge of my seat, I | :48:38. | :48:44. | |
would not be here, you made me switch add my telephone! Thank you | :48:44. | :48:47. | |
both very much. Do not think if we had a modern parliament it would | :48:48. | :48:54. | |
attract a different breed of people into it? You get the last word! | :48:54. | :48:57. | |
Let's returned to the main political story of the day, the | :48:57. | :49:01. | |
unfolding reshuffle. Ken Clarke is leaving his job as Justice | :49:01. | :49:04. | |
Secretary to take on a new roving role in the Cabinet Office, | :49:04. | :49:11. | |
advising on economic policy. He is replaced by Chris Carillion. -- | :49:11. | :49:14. | |
Chris Grayling. Andrew Mitchell becomes the new government chief | :49:14. | :49:17. | |
whip. He is replaced by Justine Greening at international | :49:17. | :49:21. | |
development. At Transport, Patrick McLoughlin takes over. Caroline | :49:21. | :49:26. | |
Spelman is replaced by Owen Paterson as Environment Secretary. | :49:26. | :49:31. | |
He moves from Northern Ireland Secretary. Sayeeda Warsi loses her | :49:31. | :49:35. | |
job as co-chair of the Conservative Party, despite publicly say she | :49:35. | :49:41. | |
wanted to stay. She will still attend Cabinet. The new chairman is | :49:41. | :49:45. | |
Grant Shapps. Andrew Lansley is moved from Health Secretary to | :49:45. | :49:49. | |
leader of the House of Commons. He is replaced by Jeremy Hunt from | :49:49. | :49:53. | |
Culture, Media and Sport, where Maria Miller enters the Cabinet for | :49:53. | :49:56. | |
the first time. On the Liberal Democrat side of the coalition, | :49:56. | :50:00. | |
Sarah Teather is replaced as Education Minister pied David Laws, | :50:00. | :50:04. | |
who had to leave Cabinet in 2010 after breaking expenses rules. All | :50:04. | :50:08. | |
in all, a pretty busy morning, and this is a taste of how some of the | :50:08. | :50:13. | |
people reacted to their new jobs. It is a lovely day for a stroll | :50:13. | :50:17. | |
along Whitehall. Are you going to meet the Prime Minister? It is a | :50:17. | :50:26. | |
beautiful day. I had an agreement with David, we have stuck to it, | :50:26. | :50:29. | |
and I am pleasantly surprised he has asked me to stay on in Cabinet | :50:29. | :50:34. | |
at a different role, some on economy, some on national security. | :50:34. | :50:38. | |
Jeremy Hunt, have you got the Health Secretary job? What is your | :50:38. | :50:42. | |
task going to be with the health service? It is the biggest | :50:42. | :50:45. | |
privilege of my life, I am incredibly honoured and very much | :50:45. | :50:49. | |
looking forward to getting on with the job. Delighted, cannot wait to | :50:49. | :50:55. | |
get started. Is it a big challenge, Northern Ireland? Absolutely. | :50:55. | :51:00. | |
discuss those changes we are joined by the BBC political editor Nick | :51:00. | :51:03. | |
Robinson, he was still in Downing Street. Your thoughts at the end of | :51:03. | :51:09. | |
all those reshuffles. My first thought is this, that reshuffles by | :51:09. | :51:12. | |
ministers hope will give them massive political boost. David | :51:12. | :51:16. | |
Cameron was not helped on day one when he discovered that Iain Duncan | :51:16. | :51:21. | |
Smith would not move to Justice Secretary. He is not helped now. We | :51:21. | :51:25. | |
have just had a statement from the Tory pin-up and heart-throb Boris | :51:25. | :51:28. | |
Johnson, the blonde bombshell of British politics, who has condemned | :51:28. | :51:33. | |
the reshuffle already. He says it is simply mad to have moved someone | :51:33. | :51:37. | |
that he regards as a first-rate Transport Secretary. He described | :51:37. | :51:42. | |
it as a plot to bring about a third runway at Heathrow, and he goes on, | :51:42. | :51:47. | |
Jo, to say he will fight it all away. Just the sort of political | :51:47. | :51:53. | |
start to want after a reshuffle! That is some threat, because Boris | :51:53. | :51:56. | |
Johnson's political credibility rose over the summer. It could | :51:56. | :52:00. | |
cause some danger. It could indeed. Justine Greening had been saying | :52:00. | :52:05. | |
behind the scenes that if she were moved, she would be the First | :52:05. | :52:09. | |
Minister in history moved for echoing her party's policy and our | :52:09. | :52:12. | |
Prime Minister's pledge at a general election. Well, she has | :52:12. | :52:17. | |
been moved, she is a London MP, for Putney, she was very clearly | :52:17. | :52:21. | |
opposed to any third runway at Heathrow. The government clearly | :52:21. | :52:25. | |
wants to keep that option open, if not before 2015, after it, and she | :52:25. | :52:31. | |
has paid with their job, and the Prime Minister now gets, for his | :52:31. | :52:35. | |
efforts, a blooming great political row about it. There will be other | :52:35. | :52:39. | |
rows in other areas. It seems to me that Jeremy Hunt, the new Health | :52:39. | :52:42. | |
Secretary, will discover that every single pressure group within the | :52:43. | :52:45. | |
health service, nurses' representatives, doctors and | :52:45. | :52:50. | |
everyone else, will not say, Well um, Minister. What they will say is, | :52:50. | :52:55. | |
can you tear up these reforms, we do not like them! He will either do | :52:55. | :53:00. | |
that or not, but there will be a row either way. That is the | :53:00. | :53:04. | |
difficulty of making change. If you look at the other area, Chris | :53:04. | :53:08. | |
Grayling moving to justice, he was not meant to go there originally, | :53:08. | :53:12. | |
he is a Tory headliner, a populist who will want to please party | :53:12. | :53:21. | |
conference. -- hardliner. If he says, the Liberal Democrats will | :53:21. | :53:24. | |
cut up rough, the Treasury will say, where are we getting the money | :53:24. | :53:29. | |
from? Tim Montgomerie was saying that this was appeasing the Tory | :53:29. | :53:33. | |
party, and some of those on the right of the party. Has this | :53:33. | :53:40. | |
Cabinet reshuffle done that? Well, you ask him, far from being a | :53:40. | :53:44. | |
commentator, Tim Montgomerie is a player who has lobbied hard for a | :53:44. | :53:47. | |
right-wing conservative stance. If people like Tim believes it is | :53:47. | :53:51. | |
right to have the likes of Chris Grayling imposed, then it has done | :53:51. | :53:55. | |
some of that job. I would not have thought it has done enough, really, | :53:55. | :53:59. | |
to please those who were demanding a real change on the right of | :53:59. | :54:03. | |
British politics. Foremost because there's no change in economic | :54:03. | :54:06. | |
policy. Remember that the Government's central problem, | :54:06. | :54:10. | |
economic glee and politically, is that there is no growth at the | :54:10. | :54:14. | |
moment. By keeping the Chancellor, the Business Secretary, the Chief | :54:14. | :54:17. | |
Secretary, they have signalled that they want to do more but they do | :54:17. | :54:22. | |
not want to change economic policy either to please the right by | :54:22. | :54:27. | |
introducing more tax cuts, or the left. Joining us now is the | :54:27. | :54:31. | |
Conservative MP Peter Lilley, who has experienced numerous reshuffles | :54:31. | :54:35. | |
after being Secretary of State for social security in the 1990s and | :54:35. | :54:39. | |
held other posts, too. Let's pick up on the economy, has it been a | :54:39. | :54:43. | |
mistake not to have done more to indicate any change in economic | :54:43. | :54:48. | |
policy, bearing in mind the situation we are in? The principle | :54:48. | :54:53. | |
hold up his lack of the regulation of supply-side policies, which is | :54:53. | :55:02. | |
mainly a DETI function. -- D regulation. We have not heard about | :55:02. | :55:05. | |
any liberals moving position, have we? They have all stayed in | :55:05. | :55:09. | |
position, just David Laws coming back. I would have put David Laws | :55:09. | :55:13. | |
where Vince Cable is. They could go somewhere else, he is an able | :55:13. | :55:17. | |
person. You would like to see him bat, and that would have been a big | :55:17. | :55:22. | |
kick-start to the economy. It would have been. What about Heathrow, | :55:22. | :55:25. | |
Boris Johnson saying very quickly it is simply mad, but there will be | :55:25. | :55:29. | |
those who will welcome a change in transport if it does actually | :55:29. | :55:32. | |
signal that there is going to be a change in policy on airport | :55:32. | :55:37. | |
expansion. A lot of people in London, and Boris may have annoyed, | :55:37. | :55:41. | |
will think that London's future requires more airport capacity. | :55:41. | :55:47. | |
you think so? I do, and it is either got to be at Heathrow or his | :55:47. | :55:50. | |
island in the Thames Estuary or expand Stansted or Gatwick. But we | :55:50. | :55:55. | |
need more capacity, no doubt about that, business is crying out for it. | :55:55. | :56:00. | |
Is that not the case? Many-layered MPs think there should be airport | :56:00. | :56:06. | |
expansion and another runway at Heathrow. -- Many Labor MPs. I do | :56:06. | :56:10. | |
not think Justine Greening would have disappeared -- disagreed with | :56:10. | :56:15. | |
that. It is a question of where you locate it. Justine Greening has | :56:15. | :56:19. | |
been in that job 10 months, and I'm afraid the Conservative government | :56:19. | :56:27. | |
is going to again turnover an election pledge to not build the | :56:27. | :56:32. | |
third runway at Heathrow. That must be the message we take. That is why | :56:32. | :56:36. | |
Boris Johnson accepts there must be more airport capacity. I am not | :56:36. | :56:41. | |
going to defend him, but it is a question of where it is. What about | :56:41. | :56:45. | |
the party? You know, we talked about Tim Montgomerie saying the | :56:45. | :56:48. | |
party will be pleased, they will be happier with the people that have | :56:48. | :56:53. | |
been put in many positions. Do you agree? I think on the whole they | :56:53. | :56:58. | |
will. Parts of the party will, some able people have moved forward, | :56:58. | :57:04. | |
Chris Grayling, the most notable, very able, and he could have | :57:04. | :57:07. | |
replaced Iain Duncan Smith, if he had accepted the justice job. | :57:07. | :57:12. | |
you think he should have done? is up to him, really. I would have | :57:12. | :57:16. | |
preferred it if he had, because I a thing he is more of a natural | :57:16. | :57:20. | |
person to do that job than Chris Grayling. -- I think. Chris | :57:20. | :57:25. | |
Grayling is not just a hardline right-wing, he is very imaginative. | :57:25. | :57:30. | |
I am right wing in almost everything except law and order, | :57:30. | :57:35. | |
and there I supported Ken Clarke's emphasis on rehabilitation. We want | :57:35. | :57:38. | |
to make sure that people who commit offences do not reoffend, rather | :57:38. | :57:42. | |
than having the pleasure of giving them luxury accommodation at | :57:42. | :57:47. | |
�50,000 per year. What about Ken Clarke's new roving role as an | :57:47. | :57:50. | |
economic adviser? Will that help communicate the message on the | :57:50. | :57:57. | |
economy? If I'm honest, and just in the privacy of his studio, I would | :57:57. | :58:02. | |
have thought it is quite risky, because Ken Clarke is not very well | :58:02. | :58:06. | |
house-trained, and he will say all sorts of things which will be taken | :58:06. | :58:11. | |
as critical of all different from what George Osborne is saying, and | :58:11. | :58:16. | |
that will lead to confusion. time, sorry, time just before we go | :58:16. | :58:20. | |
to find out the answer to our quiz, remember that? Seven suits | :58:20. | :58:23. | |
belonging to Margaret Thatcher were up for auction at Christie's | :58:23. | :58:33. | |
:58:33. | :58:38. | ||
Margaret Hodge, what is the correct answer? I think it is 73,000. | :58:38. | :58:43. | |
are right, did you know? I think I read it somewhere! Thank you for | :58:43. | :58:48. | |
being our guest of the day. The One O'Clock News are starting on BBC | :58:48. | :58:51. |