04/09/2012 Daily Politics


04/09/2012

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Afternoon, folks. Welcome to the Daily Politics. So it's reshuffle

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day. The first major reshuffle since the coalition government was

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formed. It's the day the prime minister's meant to stamp his

:00:46.:00:49.

authority on his administration. Although so far, most of the top

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Cabinet posts remain unchanged. What we do know is that the Justice

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Secretary Ken Clarke is leaving his job. But he'll remain in the

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Cabinet in an advisory role. And the Health Secretary, Andrew

:00:59.:01:04.

Lansley becomes leader of the House of Commons. It's not been a great

:01:04.:01:08.

day so far for women. Baroness Warsi, Caroline Spellman and Cheryl

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Gillan, all set to lose their jobs. Although Teresa Villiers comes into

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cabinet as Northern Ireland Secretary. We'll bring you all the

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action as it unfolds. The Commons Public Accounts

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Committee says extraordinary chaos at the UK Border Agency has allowed

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tens of thousands of bogus students to enter Britain. We'll be taking a

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look at the committee's work. And bring out the paint. Top up on

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the wallpaper. We'll be asking, is it time for a parliamentry

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All that in the next hour. And with us for the whole programme today is

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Margaret Hodge. She's a Labour MP and chairs the powerful Westminster

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committee responsible for overseeing government spending.

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Welcome to the Daily Politics. Thank you. Now before we get on to

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today's reshuffle, just a quick word about a little incident at the

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Paralympic Games last night. Take a look at this. Ladies and gentlemen,

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we now have the victory ceremony The medals tonight will be

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presented by the Right Honourable George Osborne MP. Chancellor of

:02:16.:02:26.
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Margaret Hodge, taking off your political hat, or moment, not a

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great feeling for any minister to be booed like that in a big

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celebratory event. It's absolutely horrible for him personally but, on

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the other hand, he is chance of the Exchequer and has to take

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responsibility for what people feel about that living standards at this

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point in time. He accept is going to be unpopular. He knows he's the

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most unpopular Minister and, as Chancellor, unless Belgrade

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economic times, you're never going to be popular, are you? You can't

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be that unpopular. Maybe he's a bit out of touch with what ordinary

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people are feeling in their day-to- day lives, as well. We have a

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double dip reception -- recession. People worried about their jobs,

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unable to get a home, move home, things are not good. George Osborne

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is not prepared to change policy. We will talk about the reshuffle,

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but it's no change of policy. He's not going anywhere and the top

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people are not, and it feels as if, actually, policy which is not

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succeeding is not going to be challenged. Let me just read this I

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read last night which made me smile. The person writing it said while

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George Osborne was being booed, at the stadium, Gordon Brown was being

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cheered, but I wonder which way those people voted in 2010. Maybe

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they regretted and hopefully they will vote in a different way in

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2015. It may say more about Gordon Brown and George Osborne. We have

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to wait. I'm pleased Gordon Brown got it yesterday because there is a

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tendency to rubbish a lot of the stuffy did. Were you surprised?

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People have not talked enough in relation to him, he really the bid,

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with the 2008 crisis, I think he showed international leadership.

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will leave the party politics there for a moment. Let's move on to

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things sartorial. Now it's time for our daily quiz. As you'll remember

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from yesterday's programme, seven suits belonging to Margaret

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Thatcher have been put up for auction at Christie's. But how much

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did they go for? At the end of the show Margaret will give us the

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correct answer. Don't worry, you have got plenty of time to think

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about it. It's the day when government ministers and aspiring

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backbench MPs sit nervously by the phone waiting to learn their fate.

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The first major reshuffle since the coalition government came into

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office. So what do we know so far? At the top of government, most of

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the ministers in the most senior roles are staying put. George

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Osborne stays as Chancellor of the Exchequer and David Cameron's

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right-hand man. William Hague will still be Foreign Secretary. And

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Theresa May keeps her job as Home Secretary. And, of course, the Lib

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Dem leader Nick Clegg stays as Deputy Prime Minister. Also staying

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where they are, Michael Gove at Education. And Iain Duncan Smith at

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the Department for Work and Pensions in charge of welfare

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reform. Ken Clarke is on the move leaving his job as Justice

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Secretary to take on a new role acting as a government wise head

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based in the Cabinet Office. He is replaced by Chris Grayling. Andrew

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Mitchell quits International Development to become the new

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Government Chief Whip, replacing Patrick McLoughlin. Caroline

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Spelman is leaving her job as Environment Secretary. And Sayeeda

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Warsi loses her job as Co-Chair of the Conservative Party despite

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pleading to stay at the weekend. Andrew Lansley is demoted from

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Health Secretary to Leader of the House of Commons. He is replaced by

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Jeremy Hunt who moves from Culture, Media and Sport. And Justine

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Greening is set to leave her job as Transport Secretary, raising

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questions about a possible u-turn on Heathrow expansion. On the Lib

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Dem side of the coalition, Sarah Teather is replaced as an education

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minister by David Laws, who had to leave Cabinet in 2010 after

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breaking expenses rules. This is what the Deputy Prime Minister,

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Nick Clegg, had to say a little earlier.

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It is the Government's priority to deliver policies to boost jobs and

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growth in the British economy. That is what this reshuffle will be all

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about. That was Nick Clegg responding to the reshuffle earlier

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today. And here's Ken Clarke leaving his home a short while ago,

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talking about his move from Justice Secretary to a new job as a wise

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head advising the government. agree with David when I arrived I

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would do it for a couple of years. That's what we stuck to. I'm

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surprised he's asked me to stay in the Cabinet doing a different role,

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economy, the National Security Council, but I never thought I

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would be back in the Government at my age. You have to step down the

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heavy roles before you suddenly realise you can't hack it.

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Clark, jolly as ever. And our Political Editor, Nick Robinson is

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in Downing Street. Let's pick up on what you have revealed, which is

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Iain Duncan Smith, attempts to move him from his post at the Department

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of Work and pensions. Reshuffles never survive the first contact

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with the enemy, rather like walls. In truth, the enemy is often

:07:52.:07:56.

ministers that the Prime Minister is trying to shift. The Prime

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Minister asked Iain Duncan Smith to become the new Secretary of State

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for justice, replacing Ken Clarke, the reason I believe is the

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Treasury have long had deep anxieties that Iain Duncan Smith

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resists the cuts they want to make. Remember the Chancellor announced

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�10 billion of welfare cuts as an ambition, and might not be able to

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control the spending on his promised new Universal Credit which

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comes in in a while. Iain Duncan Smith was offered a job last night

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by the Prime Minister but this morning he said no, and we have

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Chris Grayling as the new just a secretary which has more

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consequence for the Treasury. He is a hardliner. When you Shadow Home

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Secretary, a job he was dropped from, he produced the sorts of

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speeches that Tory party conference is loved. Promising to lock up more

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people, and you know what that means. More money from the Treasury.

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The Treasury are concerned about cost. What does it say, though, it

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Iain Duncan Smith was able to turn down the Prime Minister's offer?

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What does it say about the strength of the leadership? It says Iain

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Duncan Smith knows he can trade on the fact he is extremely popular

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with in his own party, as a leader who went through the top is Times,

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and he has a lot of support within those groups who lobby for the

:09:17.:09:21.

poorest in society. And he was willing to cash those chips in, but,

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as you suggest, it also says David Cameron is either not strong enough

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or didn't want to use his strength to say, off you go. You either move

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or leave. We have not had the whole picture yet. It has been quite so

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low. There are waiting for Iain Duncan Smith and others perhaps to

:09:42.:09:45.

decide whether they were going to take up job offers, but moving

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Jeremy Hunt to health is a key move. In terms of Andrew Lansley been

:09:50.:09:55.

demoted, is that a sense of failure to put out the message about the

:09:55.:10:00.

health reforms and also because Jeremy Hunt couldn't stay because

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of the Levison report? We don't know the answer to the first bit of

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that until we hear the first pronouncement of the bits no doubt

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at all Andrew Lansley was seen as a woefully bad public communicator.

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Someone who lost the confidence of doctors and nurses and other health

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professionals. What we don't know is whether Jeremy Hunt has been

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appointed to remedy that or changed the policy. Clearly, what is

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fascinating about this, many people will be shocked he has been

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promoted, expecting he might suffer, lose his job altogether from within

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the Cabinet from his performance. I believe the Prime Minister over the

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weeks and months he had to look into what Jeremy Hunt had done,

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came to the conclusion he had, in fact, acted honourably, defended

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himself decently, and was a competent administrator. That is

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why you get this puzzling shift from a junior job to a much more

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important exposed job, health. you update us on any of the other

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moves happening as we speak? just saw Maria Miller who was

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appointed as Culture Secretary. Jeremy Hunt's old job for that

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crucially, involved in deciding how the Government response to the

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lovers and report in the next few weeks. Does it, in other words, as

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the Prime Minister seems to suggest, say what ever the Lord Justice

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lovers and recommends, it will not have statutory based press

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She would have to do with the Olympic legacy as well. The big one

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we are waiting for is the Conservative Party's new chairman.

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It is likely to be grand chaps, who is in the building as we speak. If

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he doesn't get the job, it will be a shock. One of the reasons for the

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delay is not just that Iain Duncan Smith refused a move, but Baroness

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Warsi suggested she should shift, and was not happy, and there were

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tears last night in the Prime Minister's Office. Prime ministers

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sit there and have a great white board inside Downing Street. Based

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stick on it, yellow Post-it notes with names and faces of jobs but

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what they don't stick on it is who is going to break down and cry. And

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last night, someone did. It was the beginning of a difficult few hours.

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You won't tell us what was? Before we move on... It was not Ken Clarke.

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I can't imagine it with Ken Clarke who was eating is Tandoori last

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night and doesn't seem to have a care in the world. What about

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transport? That is crucial because of Heathrow. Again, a surprise move.

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David Cameron, remember, warned people against what he described as

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the annual reshuffle ritual and when he was trying to make point it

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was mad to keep moving ministers when they barely had a chance to

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bigger briefs, but one example he gave was transport ministers of he

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said Tony Blair had dozens of them and he has now had three in two

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years. The most extraordinary thing is just in Greening has been

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sidelined for repeating the Prime Minister's own election pledge that

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there would be no third runway at Heathrow -- Justine Greening.

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Patrick McLoughlin, not a public face but a well-known face in

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Westminster, the former chief whip, gets that job. He is a Midlands MP

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so has never been asked his view of a third runway in the south-east.

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He has no constituency interest there. He is a plain-speaking,

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tough guy, a formal working mind up. Popular on the Tory backbenchers,

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but now as something delicate to handle. Thank you for filling as in

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on that and we will leave you with the thought of someone crying in

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the Prime Minister's office. With us now is Tim Montgomerie, editor

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of the Conservative Home website. And the co-editor of the website

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Lib Dem Voice, Stephen Tall. And of course Margaret Hodge is still with

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us as well. Can I just let you know, Sayeeda Warsi, the former chairman,

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Minister of State in the foreign office. Are you surprised not that

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she was of that something but that she accepted it? There was

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speculation last night when it was revealed she was not going to be

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continuing to be the party chairman. That she might walk on government.

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I am glad she is staying than the Government, if not the Cabinet,

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because she is a considerable talent. Perhaps not suited to the

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job of party chairman. What about the issue of women? David Cameron

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has admitted he wanted to have a better connection with women voters.

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Moving a key people like Sayeeda Warsi and Justin Greene and out of

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Cabinet, not a clever move if you want to send a message to women --

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Justine Greening. I think we will see two women join the Cabinet,

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Teresa Villiers and Maria Miller. I think we'll see talented women,

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2010 intake appointed to the first round. But not in the Cabinet.

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Maria Miller and Teresa Villiers. We lose Caroline Spelman and Cheryl

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Gillan. I think, overall, across government, I think the number of

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the mill ministers will be increased and that's important

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because the most long-term implication of this reshuffle will

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be the people that David Cameron picks from the new intake, the

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front people for the Tory party in the future. Perhaps even leaders.

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We were a good indication he David Cameron identified as those people

:15:41.:15:51.
:15:51.:15:54.

later today. We will that appease I think overall it is a good

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reshuffle for what you call the right, I would call the mainstream

:15:58.:16:01.

of the Conservative Party. Chris Grayling and Theresa Villiers are

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both of the mainstream, they have got new jobs, a big promotion for

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Owen Paterson. There is more balance in the Cabinet than there

:16:09.:16:12.

was. Parts of the party fell slightly excluded, and I think that

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has been addressed by the reshuffle, it is good news. From the Liberal

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Democrat perspective, what does it do for coalition relations?

:16:23.:16:28.

five Lib Dem ministers will stay in place, most of it seems to have

:16:28.:16:31.

involved the Conservative Party. We will be sorry to see Ken Clarke

:16:31.:16:35.

move from the Justice Department. I think if Lib Dems had a choice

:16:35.:16:38.

between Ken Clarke and Chris Grayling, we would definitely

:16:38.:16:43.

choose Ken Clarke. His emphasis on approaching the Justice Department

:16:43.:16:46.

brief with a clear focus on evidence-based policy has been

:16:46.:16:49.

refreshing from a Conservative minister, and we will wait to see

:16:49.:16:53.

whether it happens with Chris Grayling as well. What about David

:16:53.:16:57.

Laws coming back in as number two to Michael Gove? Is that what

:16:57.:17:01.

Liberal Democrats wanted to see? Rather than in having a more

:17:01.:17:04.

central role on the economy, doing the sort of thing Ken Clarke will

:17:04.:17:10.

be doing? David Laws has been doing this behind the scenes anyway. In

:17:10.:17:14.

one sense, there will not be much change of his influence, in

:17:14.:17:18.

particular with Nick Clegg. What is interesting is putting together two

:17:18.:17:23.

quite ideologically similar numbers, Michael Gove and David Laws as the

:17:23.:17:27.

top two in education. They both agree on issues like free schools

:17:27.:17:31.

and academies, controversial within the Lib Dems, not in the

:17:31.:17:35.

Conservative Party. What do Lib Dems think of Michael Gove? They

:17:35.:17:39.

are split. Some champion the idea of schools' freedom. More within

:17:39.:17:44.

the Lib Dems are worried about the fact of what is happening in the

:17:44.:17:47.

education system, the over concentration on the elite top

:17:47.:17:51.

ability kids and less of a focus on those kids from disadvantaged

:17:51.:17:56.

backgrounds. Your response, Margaret Hodge, a more balanced

:17:56.:18:00.

Cabinet, more balanced government? The Lib Dems staying put, Vince

:18:00.:18:04.

Cable staying in his important role, David Laws coming back in. That

:18:04.:18:08.

will be popular with Liberal Democrats. I have to make a general

:18:08.:18:13.

point, I do not know if Tim would disagree, but this is not age

:18:13.:18:17.

change of policy. In the community, people, do they really know Patrick

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McLoughlin is? Isn't that the case with all reshuffles? It is always

:18:22.:18:26.

about shuttling the people. Sometimes it is about a real shift

:18:26.:18:31.

in policy. If you look, the economy is the key issue for us, and there

:18:31.:18:35.

has been no shift in policy there, and we need growth, people are

:18:35.:18:39.

worried about recession. Can I say something about women? It is not

:18:39.:18:43.

good enough to say it is only one less. Every year ought to be more

:18:43.:18:47.

women being promoted. I agree that there are a lot of talented new

:18:47.:18:57.

women in the Conservatives since the 2010 election, but I think it

:18:57.:19:00.

is not a good step to see a reduction in the number of women in

:19:00.:19:06.

Cabinet at this time. Let's pickup on the economy, the key plank of

:19:06.:19:10.

policy will remain the same. Are you happy about that? In your mind,

:19:10.:19:14.

was there ever a point when David Cameron thought he would move

:19:14.:19:20.

George Osborne? No, not at all. be fair, it is difficult to move

:19:20.:19:26.

chancellors. As Tony Blair found out with Gordon Brown! Unlike

:19:26.:19:29.

Margaret Hodge's government, we have a Prime Minister and

:19:30.:19:33.

Chancellor to get on incredibly well, there is no tension at the

:19:33.:19:36.

heart of government. Some people think that if you move George

:19:36.:19:39.

Osborne, there would be a different policy on deficit reduction of

:19:39.:19:42.

growth. That was never going to happen, it is a policy that all the

:19:42.:19:47.

top players in government have signed up to. A lot of the people

:19:47.:19:51.

frustrated with the lack of a growth agenda, George Osborne is an

:19:51.:19:55.

ally of the right on most of these years. On tax cutting. Tax-cutting,

:19:56.:19:59.

energy policy. If he cannot deliver the things that David Davis once,

:19:59.:20:06.

nobody else will be able to. But to pick up on, was it a symbol at the

:20:06.:20:11.

Paralympics, the unpopularity, people feel because there is no

:20:11.:20:14.

growth and there is a double-dip recession, would a big move, not

:20:14.:20:17.

George Osborne but some sort of change being signalled would mean

:20:17.:20:22.

the reshuffle was greater than just a moving of the deck chairs. That

:20:22.:20:25.

is maybe what some people would want, but let's be clear, because

:20:25.:20:29.

of the terrible mess that the Labour Party left this country end,

:20:29.:20:32.

we are having to take incredibly difficult decisions as a coalition

:20:32.:20:37.

government. These are the biggest cuts, bigger than anything Margaret

:20:37.:20:40.

Thatcher ever managed, and of course George Osborne gets the

:20:40.:20:45.

blame for that. In a couple of years' time, if the economy starts

:20:45.:20:50.

to grow, what will be the choice at the election? A choice between two

:20:50.:20:53.

parties who have taken tough decisions and a party which created

:20:53.:20:58.

the mess and opposed the difficult decisions. I cannot let him get

:20:58.:21:03.

away with that! I mean, clearly there is an issue about the deficit,

:21:03.:21:09.

but to say a double-dip recession, the negative growth we are in at

:21:09.:21:15.

the moment is not the result of this government's's policy over two

:21:15.:21:18.

is into this government, I just think it is wrong. And there is an

:21:18.:21:24.

alternative economic strategy... Moving George Osborne. It might

:21:24.:21:30.

have meant, hang on. They came in and said they were going to reverse

:21:30.:21:35.

austerity in France. They have not been able to. Labour is the only

:21:35.:21:39.

party in Europe that is in cloud cuckoo land, ignoring the realities.

:21:39.:21:43.

We are going to do more of this in just a moment, but Nick Clegg had

:21:43.:21:46.

to endure a rather stormy ride in the Commons yesterday as he

:21:46.:21:49.

confirmed that the government had dropped its plans to reform the

:21:49.:21:54.

House of Lords. The DPM also confirmed that his party would not

:21:54.:21:57.

support the bill to redraw the constituency boundaries, which

:21:57.:22:00.

would have benefited the Conservatives at the next election.

:22:00.:22:03.

Mr Clegg began by explaining he had decided to drop Lords reform

:22:03.:22:09.

because the Commons could not agree on a timetable for the bill.

:22:09.:22:13.

It is now clear that we will not be able to secure the Commons majority

:22:13.:22:19.

needed to pass the programme motion that the company's the bill.

:22:19.:22:23.

Without that motion, the bill effectively becomes impossible to

:22:23.:22:26.

deliver. We share his disappointment at a lack of

:22:26.:22:32.

progress on reform of the House of Lords. It can't be right to... It

:22:32.:22:36.

can't be right that in the 21st century we have an unelected

:22:36.:22:41.

chamber making decisions on the law of the land. I join with him in

:22:41.:22:44.

thanking the joint committee of both Houses. Despite the cross-

:22:44.:22:48.

party talks, the white paper and the draft bill, they did remain

:22:48.:22:52.

issues to be resolved, not least the powers of the new second

:22:52.:22:56.

chamber, the electoral process and a referendum, but we should have

:22:56.:22:59.

been able to make progress, and we share his disappointment on the

:23:00.:23:03.

stalling of reform. It is unfinished business, and we should

:23:03.:23:13.

return to it. She gets 10 out of 10 for spectacular insincerity! For

:23:13.:23:21.

the Labour Party... The Labour Party... The Labour Party used to

:23:21.:23:25.

campaign against privilege and patronage. The Labour Party used to

:23:25.:23:30.

say it was the party of the people! What did they do when they had the

:23:30.:23:33.

opportunity? They voted for the idea of reform but not for the

:23:33.:23:37.

means to deliver it. I think my right honourable friend should

:23:37.:23:41.

comfort himself, he gave it his best shot with all of his sincerity,

:23:41.:23:47.

and we respect him for that. But may I draw my right honourable

:23:47.:23:52.

friend's attention to the fact that the constituencies bill remains in

:23:52.:23:55.

force, and that all the boundaries Commission remain under a duty to

:23:55.:24:00.

bring forward proposals for a house of 600 members. Can he instruct

:24:00.:24:07.

them to stop? He does not have that power, so is he therefore not

:24:07.:24:12.

simply going to obstruct a constitutional process for his own

:24:12.:24:16.

party political advantage? I have made it clear that since I

:24:16.:24:19.

reasonably believe that the constitutional reform package was

:24:19.:24:25.

exactly that, a package, and that since this is the first time that

:24:25.:24:29.

either of the coalition parties was unable to deliver on a major

:24:29.:24:34.

coalition agreement commitments, it is therefore right to rebalance

:24:34.:24:39.

things and not to proceed with an unbalanced package. Every cloud and

:24:39.:24:46.

a silver lining! The House of Lords survives, and when the Liberal

:24:46.:24:51.

Democrats dump him as leader, he will qualify for a peerage! Will he

:24:51.:24:59.

take it?! I knew what was going to be a nice one! No, I will not. I

:24:59.:25:04.

think... Personally I do not think... Let me explain, let me

:25:04.:25:08.

explain. I do not think I would be very welcome in the current House

:25:08.:25:14.

of Lords, given my somewhat undiplomatic descriptions of the

:25:14.:25:19.

illegitimacy of the house. Secondly, I personally will not take up a

:25:19.:25:24.

place in an unreformed House of Lords. Call me old fashioned, it

:25:24.:25:27.

sticks in her throat. I have campaigned all my life, my party

:25:27.:25:31.

has campaigned for decades now for the simple idea of democracy, and

:25:31.:25:41.
:25:41.:25:42.

Nick Clegg the House of Commons yesterday. Still with me are Tim

:25:42.:25:45.

Montgomery of Conservative Home and Stephen Tall of the Lib Dem Voice.

:25:45.:25:49.

Let's update viewers on the latest moves, Justine Greening may have

:25:49.:25:53.

gone from transport but has been given international development,

:25:53.:25:56.

the new Secretary of State for International Development,

:25:56.:25:59.

replacing Andrew Mitchell. David Jones is the new Welsh Secretary

:25:59.:26:03.

will stop Owen Paterson is replaced by Theresa Villiers as Northern

:26:03.:26:08.

Ireland secretary and becomes Secretary of State for DEFRA. The

:26:08.:26:12.

big news is that Grant Shapps, the Housing Minister, has become the

:26:12.:26:18.

new Tory chairman. Your response. Well, the two most important

:26:18.:26:20.

appointments that David Cameron will make today is the chief whip

:26:20.:26:24.

that was announced last night, Andrew Mitchell, and Grant Shapps,

:26:24.:26:28.

party chairman. Policy is not going to change, I think we have agreed

:26:28.:26:32.

that, but this Government needs more disciplined, the Conservative

:26:32.:26:35.

Party is incredibly rebellious at the moment. It is about the party.

:26:35.:26:40.

And it needs more hope for the future. The Chief Whip is bringing

:26:40.:26:46.

discipline, we hope! Really? He is popular and widely respected, his

:26:46.:26:52.

nickname is Thrasher. It is true that the whips Office has not been

:26:52.:26:55.

the central institution that it was in the past in Tory government. By

:26:55.:26:59.

the end of the day, I think we will see by the nature of the junior

:26:59.:27:03.

whip appointments the brightest and best Conservatives are no longer

:27:03.:27:06.

going straight into frontbench departments, they are going into

:27:06.:27:10.

the whips office, which is considerably strengthened. Added to

:27:10.:27:13.

that, a party chairman has the confidence of most of the

:27:13.:27:17.

parliamentary party, liked by the grassroots, good on TV, we will see

:27:17.:27:22.

the sort of faith in the future, hope for the future. Just generally,

:27:22.:27:28.

I think one of the problems with a reshuffle, and I lived through many,

:27:28.:27:30.

is that it disappoints many more people than it pleases. That is

:27:30.:27:35.

true, yeah. What has surprised me about the Conservative government

:27:35.:27:39.

is the extent of rebellions this early on in the light of the

:27:39.:27:42.

Conservative government. After today, you are going to get many

:27:42.:27:45.

more disappointed people, people who have been sacked, people who

:27:45.:27:50.

did not come in. On the whole, every reshuffle, you may have 20

:27:50.:27:54.

people who are happy in a very large bunch of people. I think the

:27:54.:27:57.

idea that this is done to help party discipline when you have

:27:57.:28:04.

already got a culture of rebellion is hope over reality. I do not

:28:04.:28:08.

think we can view this coalition reshuffle through an ordinary prism

:28:08.:28:14.

of reshuffles. Not only is the process different, Nick Clegg is

:28:14.:28:18.

responsible for the Conservative side of things... Sorry, he wishes!

:28:18.:28:23.

That makes it different, the whole mechanics of how you reshuffle,

:28:23.:28:27.

once we set the Domino's rolling, who does move into ridge position.

:28:27.:28:31.

The biggest point that makes a difference is who fills which

:28:31.:28:35.

department matters less within a coalition, because the coalition

:28:35.:28:38.

agreement is overarching, and policies have to be jointly agreed.

:28:38.:28:42.

And what is more important as we were listening to that debate is

:28:42.:28:46.

talking about boundary changes. In the end, is that going to be a more

:28:46.:28:50.

defining moment of the Liberal Democrats if they do not back

:28:51.:28:54.

legislation for boundary changes? Yeah, I think it will be. What

:28:54.:28:57.

happened in the summer was that both parties took a look into the

:28:57.:29:00.

void. The Conservatives had proposed house of Lords reform in

:29:00.:29:05.

the manifesto and agreed to it in the coalition, and they said no,

:29:05.:29:08.

and Nick Clegg did the same for boundary changes. They both looked

:29:08.:29:12.

into the abyss of what happens if the coalition splits up, saw it was

:29:12.:29:18.

a frightening prospect for both parties and have drawn back. Over

:29:18.:29:20.

in the Houses of Parliament, the central lobby has been awash with

:29:20.:29:28.

rumours. Carol Walker is there. thank you, Jo. MPs are all parties

:29:28.:29:32.

are digest in the details of that reshuffle, and in particular in the

:29:32.:29:35.

last few minutes that news that Grant Shapps will be the new

:29:35.:29:39.

Conservative Party chairman. I enjoyed by Mark Pritchard path the

:29:39.:29:44.

Conservative Party and Andrew George from the Lib Dems, thank you

:29:44.:29:48.

for joining me. If I can start with you, Mark, we were hearing a

:29:48.:29:53.

discussion about what this would do to conserve the party discipline

:29:53.:29:58.

and morale, a new party chairman in Grant Shapps, a new chief whip in

:29:59.:30:08.

Andrew Mitchell. How do you think Grant Shapps is a great

:30:08.:30:13.

communicator. Despite the obvious talents of Baroness Warsi, I feel

:30:13.:30:18.

we need a chairman and acted to the House of Commons. It will be

:30:18.:30:24.

interesting to see whether that is delay co-chairman role, but I think

:30:24.:30:27.

it will simply be an opportunity for Grant Shapps to get out into

:30:28.:30:32.

the country and communicate our message and I think he will be very

:30:32.:30:37.

good at that. I'm also absolutely delighted that Andrew Mitchell is

:30:37.:30:40.

now the Chief Whip. Patrick McLoughlin stays as transport

:30:40.:30:44.

secretary. Very well respected across the House but Andrew

:30:44.:30:51.

Mitchell is a very shrewd politician, very underestimated.

:30:51.:30:55.

Better to be underestimated ban over estimated, as Churchill said.

:30:55.:30:59.

I think he will be bringing some and the party and I have a huge

:31:00.:31:03.

amount of respect for Andrew Mitchell. We haven't had too many

:31:03.:31:06.

of the Lib Dem it moves, suggestions David Laws may come

:31:06.:31:13.

back in a junior role, may be taking Sarah Teather's job. What

:31:13.:31:16.

will this do to the balance and the relationship between the coalition

:31:16.:31:21.

partners? Mathematically, things will remain the same. The

:31:21.:31:27.

announcement so far is private and internal matters for the

:31:27.:31:32.

Conservative Party. Whilst I understand that there is a sense of

:31:32.:31:38.

obligation on the part of any Prime Minister who wants to appear to

:31:38.:31:42.

pass the virility test and repaid to shake up his Cabinet and so on,

:31:42.:31:48.

and David Cameron made clear he would do that this summer, I think

:31:48.:31:51.

whilst it's interesting, it's also brutal to people like Caroline

:31:51.:32:00.

Spelman, or I think is done a very good job in DEFRA. People have been

:32:00.:32:05.

talking about the underlying problems of government. The economy.

:32:05.:32:10.

George Osborne is stain and Vince Cable is staying but Patrick

:32:10.:32:15.

McLoughlin, transport, it leaves scope for a wider look at the

:32:15.:32:18.

aviation issue. Do you think we will see significant changes when

:32:18.:32:23.

it comes to that whole agenda? will have to wait and see but I

:32:23.:32:27.

don't think a third runway at Heathrow is a silver bullet for

:32:27.:32:31.

helping the economy. But I do think it will come. I always felt it was

:32:31.:32:38.

the case. I think there will be a wider strategic review of how we

:32:38.:32:45.

use the airports such as Birmingham and Bristol. Your party is opposed

:32:45.:32:50.

strongly to it. We were opposed to it and the last general election so

:32:50.:32:52.

it will be interesting discussion in the Cabinet. Nothing has been

:32:52.:32:57.

said about it, but there has been a lot of shadow-boxing on the issue.

:32:57.:33:02.

Obviously, we can read a certain amount into the move of Justine

:33:02.:33:05.

Greening to international development. She will need to be

:33:05.:33:09.

aware lot and no doubt there will be a lot of movement back home.

:33:09.:33:14.

you think that shows the Prime Minister is aware that yesterday

:33:15.:33:19.

more to keep his party on board. People say the policies matter but

:33:19.:33:24.

people do matter. We need to deliver on policies bought up Ken

:33:24.:33:30.

Clarke, delighted to see him remaining with the Cabinet. He is

:33:30.:33:36.

the biggest, heaviest hitter in government. We need him. He is the

:33:36.:33:41.

provocation of experience and I'm glad he's there. OK, thank you.

:33:41.:33:46.

That's it for now. Thank you very much. If there's one thing MPs love,

:33:46.:33:49.

it's pointing out the mistakes of others. And those lucky enough to

:33:49.:33:52.

sit on select committees have the power to haul officials, ministers

:33:52.:33:55.

and pretty much anyone else they like over the coals. Sometimes

:33:55.:33:57.

though, those MPs are themselves criticised for failing to land a

:33:57.:34:04.

punch on their intended targets. There is one exception however. The

:34:04.:34:06.

Public Accounts Committee regularly names and shames departments it

:34:06.:34:09.

believes are guilty of wasting public money. But fun to watch as

:34:09.:34:13.

it might be, is duffing up senior civil servants the best way to

:34:13.:34:23.
:34:23.:34:24.

protect taxpayers' cash? David The mighty opposites of state run

:34:24.:34:30.

by an army of civil servants. Not much frightens the people who work

:34:30.:34:38.

here except a small band of MPs. The Public Accounts Committee.

:34:38.:34:42.

are spending a lot of money and it doesn't look, I can't understand

:34:42.:34:45.

what you're spending it on. Sometimes journalists have been

:34:45.:34:49.

known to describe committees as powerful and influential and, to be

:34:49.:34:53.

honest, they are neither of the above. The Public Accounts

:34:53.:34:57.

Committee however is the real deal. Working the the National Audit

:34:57.:35:01.

Office its job is to scrutinise how much our money government

:35:01.:35:05.

dependence are spending and whether spending it wisely and trust me,

:35:05.:35:10.

they do not hold back., have a minutes' time out? No, I don't see

:35:10.:35:16.

why sure the minutes' time out at all. We have the power to make you

:35:16.:35:22.

give evidence under oath and we are doing so. Key the most powerful

:35:22.:35:26.

committee since it was created by the Gladstone in the middle of the

:35:26.:35:30.

19th century because it's the only one which has sufficient

:35:30.:35:37.

information to do the job properly. The National Audit Office creates

:35:37.:35:43.

weapons, and hands the MP and beat Public Accounts Committee bullets.

:35:43.:35:47.

Beautifully fashioned bullets to fire at the heads of those there

:35:47.:35:51.

are interrogating. Does the Public Accounts Committee changed the way

:35:51.:35:55.

departments behave or is the humiliation of civil servant little

:35:55.:35:59.

more than good political television? How do just by that

:35:59.:36:07.

cost? Where are those figures? Again, I will find it for you.

:36:07.:36:15.

had a criticism, it would be this. They don't often enough pick on

:36:15.:36:19.

examples of good public expenditure. And good procurement and say, look,

:36:19.:36:24.

it can be done, treat this as exemplary and replicated. They

:36:24.:36:27.

could do much more of that and that would be wonderful way of

:36:27.:36:33.

increasing the chances of a virtuous department. Maybe, but

:36:33.:36:36.

don't expect the committee to become pussycats any time soon.

:36:36.:36:43.

are not talking about shrinking violence -- by let's we are talking

:36:43.:36:48.

about people on six-figure salaries and they must be accountable -- of

:36:48.:36:58.
:36:58.:37:08.

Very scary. You may sound tough but the question is, has actually

:37:08.:37:13.

changed anything? I am determined that it should. It hasn't done so

:37:13.:37:19.

far. It has, actually. If by take one example. When we look at the

:37:19.:37:25.

whole way in which the HMRC dealt with major companies, and the

:37:25.:37:29.

Goldman Sachs affair, you may remember that, actually, we have

:37:30.:37:38.

got a change in the way that HMRC approaches those sorts of issues.

:37:38.:37:42.

We have got to make sure people authorise those deals are different

:37:42.:37:47.

from the people who make them. And we have got a better accountability

:37:47.:37:52.

structure in place, so we have changed that. One of the things I

:37:52.:37:58.

have changed is that, when we make recommendations. In the past they

:37:58.:38:02.

went into the library. Now we come back to them six months later, and

:38:02.:38:07.

if the Departments have not implemented the recommendations, we

:38:07.:38:11.

bring the senior officials back in front of us again. There is a

:38:11.:38:21.
:38:21.:38:21.

follow-up. You mentioned the HMRC. Was that a justifiable behaviour by

:38:21.:38:24.

your committee to make the lawyer testify on oath giving evidence

:38:24.:38:30.

about this? Was that too heavy- handed? We were incredibly

:38:30.:38:36.

frustrated because he was failing to answer questions directly.

:38:36.:38:41.

Something we have a problem with with politicians. Indeed. But our

:38:41.:38:45.

job is to hold the officials to account for the money they had

:38:46.:38:51.

spent. Tax payers money. Was it theatre? Yes, it was, but actually,

:38:51.:38:56.

on the whole, was the exercise in relation to the way the department

:38:56.:39:00.

deals with big companies effectively, I think it was a

:39:00.:39:05.

success story. How much money do you think the taxpayer has been

:39:05.:39:11.

saved as a result of some of the things you have done? I would hate

:39:11.:39:17.

to put a figure on it. I think our existence itself helps. People know

:39:17.:39:22.

they have got to, just by themselves in front of us. The fact

:39:22.:39:25.

we are monitoring helps because people know that we are going to

:39:25.:39:32.

come back to them. I think the waste, honestly, is horrible. There

:39:32.:39:36.

was one afternoon early on when we were looking up defence procurement.

:39:36.:39:44.

Literally, in at 2.5 others we uncovered �80 billion worth of

:39:44.:39:50.

money drawn up. You are saving millions of pounds. Billions.

:39:51.:39:58.

much as that. Let's move on to this report about foreign students.

:39:58.:40:02.

Under license being withdrawn from London Metropolitan University. Do

:40:02.:40:06.

you think that is fair? The points system was brought in by Labour

:40:06.:40:11.

originally. Are you saying it has failed? I'm not being partisan on

:40:11.:40:16.

this issue, and that's one of the joys of the job, that you can look

:40:16.:40:21.

at how effective governance is. And I think there is an essential

:40:22.:40:25.

attention which has been an resolved by both the Labour

:40:25.:40:28.

government and Conservative government. On the one hand, we

:40:28.:40:33.

want to attract the best students, we want their intellectual

:40:33.:40:37.

capabilities and their money. On the other hand, the Government

:40:37.:40:41.

wants to demonstrate it is tough on immigration controls or so I think

:40:41.:40:45.

that tension has come out in the way he handled it. Whose fault is

:40:45.:40:49.

it opera but many foreign students able to come here and work, not

:40:49.:40:54.

study? It's partly a policy fault, but also there was a real

:40:54.:41:00.

administrative fault. The UK board Agency has simply failed to

:41:00.:41:03.

implement the policy effectively. Something a little different.

:41:03.:41:06.

Over-run by mice, contaminated with asbestos, a leaking roof and

:41:06.:41:09.

crumbling walls. No, not the Daily Politics set, but according to MPs,

:41:09.:41:12.

our very own Houses of Parliament. So, is a costly refurbishment on

:41:12.:41:15.

the cards? Will MPs and Lords have to move out so the builders can

:41:15.:41:19.

move in? And what might a spruced up, 21st century parliament look

:41:19.:41:25.

like? Giles Dilnot investigates. Ah, the mother of all Parliaments.

:41:25.:41:28.

Looked at like this. It's a stone status symbol. Democracies.

:41:28.:41:31.

Architectural shock and awe. However it's apparently it's in

:41:31.:41:38.

shocking state. Nobody is actually saying the thing is going to fall

:41:38.:41:44.

down tomorrow but the problem is, it's a little bit like the Tube. In

:41:44.:41:49.

is getting old. The bits you can't see, they're not that great. And

:41:49.:41:55.

the other thing is, it is full of rodents. So many jokes, so little

:41:55.:42:00.

time. This thousands of my sport that it's not by mistake there is a

:42:00.:42:08.

cat at Number Ten, either. There's not enough female toilets. And

:42:08.:42:13.

thanks to Robin Cook, there is just one cafe for the public. It is time

:42:13.:42:17.

it was modernised for modern-day usage. Now the House of Commons

:42:17.:42:23.

Commission has said the building is structurally sound. But is

:42:23.:42:27.

preparing a report on what needs to be made good, and the list is long

:42:27.:42:29.

and expensive. There's some reports the bill's in the billions? And

:42:29.:42:32.

borrowing from a Tory electoral mantra, they just can't go on like

:42:32.:42:36.

this. And of course, when you've got the builders in, you want the

:42:36.:42:42.

resident's out. Be it you managed to drag them kicking and screaming

:42:42.:42:45.

for five years from this place, they still have got to have

:42:45.:42:49.

something to do whatever it is they do. Where on earth would you put

:42:49.:42:55.

them? We've just had a successful Olympics. Just down the road, in

:42:55.:42:59.

Hackney, beer is the media centre, which, although we hope will create

:42:59.:43:02.

jobs in the long term, in the short term it could be a place were

:43:02.:43:06.

Parliament goes. Instead of Westminster, we get East Minster at

:43:06.:43:10.

the media centre. Seven minutes from St Pancras, right next to City

:43:10.:43:16.

Airport. If you need to come and Westminster, 20 minutes on the Tube.

:43:16.:43:21.

I will be the three options to get the work done. You could go back to

:43:21.:43:24.

having a summer recess of three months, to do the work in three

:43:24.:43:31.

months and come out. Then let us come back for two weeks. If that's

:43:31.:43:35.

not palatable, get the commissioners to start rearranging

:43:35.:43:41.

the parliamentary conference season so we sit here off the blocks, so

:43:41.:43:48.

work can carry through. Or move the House of Lords to Cambridge, and

:43:48.:43:51.

then stick a House of Commons in the House of Lords. And then bring

:43:51.:43:55.

us all back. Oh yes! Perhaps it's not surprising it's quietly got run

:43:55.:44:01.

down. If you only rely on the tradition of sending Beefeaters to

:44:02.:44:05.

the basement for a look around once every Queen's speech, what did you

:44:05.:44:10.

expect? And the Conservative MP, Jacob

:44:10.:44:12.

Rees-Mogg is here. And Charlie Mullins, Founder of Pimlico

:44:12.:44:20.

Plumbers and Roofers is also here. First of all how bad is it? If you

:44:20.:44:25.

were describing this in estate agent terms, how bad -- but is it?

:44:26.:44:30.

Fantastic. I don't see what the fuss is about. What do you need the

:44:30.:44:34.

parliament building for, the chamber. The chamber is magnificent.

:44:34.:44:37.

People have seen the odd mouse but I would not make a fuss about it.

:44:37.:44:44.

Does that bother you? Jacob has an office on the same for as me but

:44:44.:44:47.

there are five pockets, and they have been there for about six

:44:47.:44:51.

months. Looking up with water. Clearly, somebody has got to sort

:44:51.:44:56.

it out. Maybe you could come and do it for us because it's driving us

:44:56.:44:59.

mad and you have to go over electric cables for that quite

:44:59.:45:06.

dangerous as you go to the loo. You will have seen them, Jacob. There's

:45:06.:45:12.

stuff which needs to be done. We should fix it. Old buildings always

:45:12.:45:16.

a problem but I don't bigot that bad. You wouldn't advise a

:45:16.:45:25.

refurbishment? A little bit of If it were one's own house, one

:45:25.:45:31.

would do a bit of patching and mending. You might have to rewire

:45:31.:45:36.

in your own house. We do not have the money, we must not waste money

:45:36.:45:42.

on politicians' comfort. The issue of cost, in the end, is what Jacob

:45:42.:45:47.

proposes going to cost the taxpayer more if it is just a bit of patch

:45:47.:45:52.

and mend every year or so, rather than a complete refit? What would

:45:52.:45:57.

be cheaper? Obviously, it is going to be cheaper if they are hatching

:45:57.:46:01.

at the moment, but I think we are missing the point. 3 billion would

:46:01.:46:05.

be a good investment. We should move them all out, get new premises,

:46:05.:46:09.

keep them in the new premises, which would make this a much more

:46:09.:46:16.

modern parliament that we have, they would be more effective. Make

:46:16.:46:21.

it a tourist attraction. I think that is the way we should go.

:46:21.:46:26.

you do it for under 3 billion? be honest, I know the place is

:46:26.:46:32.

running with rats, and I think there is a vermin problem also!

:46:32.:46:36.

they different kind! What I am saying, it is a great opportunity,

:46:36.:46:40.

and I believe the government could get a lot of youngsters working in

:46:40.:46:45.

there. Coming back to the cost, how much would you Charles for a new

:46:45.:46:52.

roof? -- charge. We are guessing here, it would be millions, you

:46:52.:46:57.

cannot even get something like that. The problem we have got, with its

:46:57.:47:02.

stake to 3 billion? We all know that is the starting point. Would

:47:02.:47:08.

you be prepared to move out? certainly not. Rather than having a

:47:08.:47:12.

three-month recess, which is just a suggestion, wouldn't it be better

:47:12.:47:16.

to move out? Technically, the Queen can summon parliament where she

:47:16.:47:21.

wants. By convention, it is at her palace in Westminster, and that has

:47:21.:47:26.

been followed since the late 17th century. It would be awful to move

:47:26.:47:29.

out of this historic area that rips us with our history and where

:47:29.:47:33.

legislation has been made for such a long time, to go to the East End

:47:33.:47:42.

or heaven knows where else. Listen, the East End is a good blaze! I

:47:42.:47:48.

feel a bit more ambivalent. would move out. I think it is a

:47:48.:47:52.

wonderful building, and I have some sympathy with the idea of turning

:47:52.:47:55.

it into an historic building, but I love working there. There are

:47:56.:47:59.

things we could do for modern politics, rather than this

:48:00.:48:04.

confrontational arrangement, two sides of the chamber, a circular

:48:04.:48:10.

chamber where people are more collaborative. Combative is not a

:48:10.:48:15.

bad thing, Jacob. I think confrontational politics, as in the

:48:15.:48:19.

course, is very effective, because you smash ideas together to see the

:48:19.:48:24.

good ones survive. Consensus politics leads to an awful lot of

:48:24.:48:28.

five and no one being clearly in charge. Collaboration might lead to

:48:28.:48:34.

better ideas. Are you waiting for a call from the Prime Minister?

:48:34.:48:38.

should he be calling me? And not sitting on the edge of my seat, I

:48:38.:48:44.

would not be here, you made me switch add my telephone! Thank you

:48:44.:48:47.

both very much. Do not think if we had a modern parliament it would

:48:48.:48:54.

attract a different breed of people into it? You get the last word!

:48:54.:48:57.

Let's returned to the main political story of the day, the

:48:57.:49:01.

unfolding reshuffle. Ken Clarke is leaving his job as Justice

:49:01.:49:04.

Secretary to take on a new roving role in the Cabinet Office,

:49:04.:49:11.

advising on economic policy. He is replaced by Chris Carillion. --

:49:11.:49:14.

Chris Grayling. Andrew Mitchell becomes the new government chief

:49:14.:49:17.

whip. He is replaced by Justine Greening at international

:49:17.:49:21.

development. At Transport, Patrick McLoughlin takes over. Caroline

:49:21.:49:26.

Spelman is replaced by Owen Paterson as Environment Secretary.

:49:26.:49:31.

He moves from Northern Ireland Secretary. Sayeeda Warsi loses her

:49:31.:49:35.

job as co-chair of the Conservative Party, despite publicly say she

:49:35.:49:41.

wanted to stay. She will still attend Cabinet. The new chairman is

:49:41.:49:45.

Grant Shapps. Andrew Lansley is moved from Health Secretary to

:49:45.:49:49.

leader of the House of Commons. He is replaced by Jeremy Hunt from

:49:49.:49:53.

Culture, Media and Sport, where Maria Miller enters the Cabinet for

:49:53.:49:56.

the first time. On the Liberal Democrat side of the coalition,

:49:56.:50:00.

Sarah Teather is replaced as Education Minister pied David Laws,

:50:00.:50:04.

who had to leave Cabinet in 2010 after breaking expenses rules. All

:50:04.:50:08.

in all, a pretty busy morning, and this is a taste of how some of the

:50:08.:50:13.

people reacted to their new jobs. It is a lovely day for a stroll

:50:13.:50:17.

along Whitehall. Are you going to meet the Prime Minister? It is a

:50:17.:50:26.

beautiful day. I had an agreement with David, we have stuck to it,

:50:26.:50:29.

and I am pleasantly surprised he has asked me to stay on in Cabinet

:50:29.:50:34.

at a different role, some on economy, some on national security.

:50:34.:50:38.

Jeremy Hunt, have you got the Health Secretary job? What is your

:50:38.:50:42.

task going to be with the health service? It is the biggest

:50:42.:50:45.

privilege of my life, I am incredibly honoured and very much

:50:45.:50:49.

looking forward to getting on with the job. Delighted, cannot wait to

:50:49.:50:55.

get started. Is it a big challenge, Northern Ireland? Absolutely.

:50:55.:51:00.

discuss those changes we are joined by the BBC political editor Nick

:51:00.:51:03.

Robinson, he was still in Downing Street. Your thoughts at the end of

:51:03.:51:09.

all those reshuffles. My first thought is this, that reshuffles by

:51:09.:51:12.

ministers hope will give them massive political boost. David

:51:12.:51:16.

Cameron was not helped on day one when he discovered that Iain Duncan

:51:16.:51:21.

Smith would not move to Justice Secretary. He is not helped now. We

:51:21.:51:25.

have just had a statement from the Tory pin-up and heart-throb Boris

:51:25.:51:28.

Johnson, the blonde bombshell of British politics, who has condemned

:51:28.:51:33.

the reshuffle already. He says it is simply mad to have moved someone

:51:33.:51:37.

that he regards as a first-rate Transport Secretary. He described

:51:37.:51:42.

it as a plot to bring about a third runway at Heathrow, and he goes on,

:51:42.:51:47.

Jo, to say he will fight it all away. Just the sort of political

:51:47.:51:53.

start to want after a reshuffle! That is some threat, because Boris

:51:53.:51:56.

Johnson's political credibility rose over the summer. It could

:51:56.:52:00.

cause some danger. It could indeed. Justine Greening had been saying

:52:00.:52:05.

behind the scenes that if she were moved, she would be the First

:52:05.:52:09.

Minister in history moved for echoing her party's policy and our

:52:09.:52:12.

Prime Minister's pledge at a general election. Well, she has

:52:12.:52:17.

been moved, she is a London MP, for Putney, she was very clearly

:52:17.:52:21.

opposed to any third runway at Heathrow. The government clearly

:52:21.:52:25.

wants to keep that option open, if not before 2015, after it, and she

:52:25.:52:31.

has paid with their job, and the Prime Minister now gets, for his

:52:31.:52:35.

efforts, a blooming great political row about it. There will be other

:52:35.:52:39.

rows in other areas. It seems to me that Jeremy Hunt, the new Health

:52:39.:52:42.

Secretary, will discover that every single pressure group within the

:52:43.:52:45.

health service, nurses' representatives, doctors and

:52:45.:52:50.

everyone else, will not say, Well um, Minister. What they will say is,

:52:50.:52:55.

can you tear up these reforms, we do not like them! He will either do

:52:55.:53:00.

that or not, but there will be a row either way. That is the

:53:00.:53:04.

difficulty of making change. If you look at the other area, Chris

:53:04.:53:08.

Grayling moving to justice, he was not meant to go there originally,

:53:08.:53:12.

he is a Tory headliner, a populist who will want to please party

:53:12.:53:21.

conference. -- hardliner. If he says, the Liberal Democrats will

:53:21.:53:24.

cut up rough, the Treasury will say, where are we getting the money

:53:24.:53:29.

from? Tim Montgomerie was saying that this was appeasing the Tory

:53:29.:53:33.

party, and some of those on the right of the party. Has this

:53:33.:53:40.

Cabinet reshuffle done that? Well, you ask him, far from being a

:53:40.:53:44.

commentator, Tim Montgomerie is a player who has lobbied hard for a

:53:44.:53:47.

right-wing conservative stance. If people like Tim believes it is

:53:47.:53:51.

right to have the likes of Chris Grayling imposed, then it has done

:53:51.:53:55.

some of that job. I would not have thought it has done enough, really,

:53:55.:53:59.

to please those who were demanding a real change on the right of

:53:59.:54:03.

British politics. Foremost because there's no change in economic

:54:03.:54:06.

policy. Remember that the Government's central problem,

:54:06.:54:10.

economic glee and politically, is that there is no growth at the

:54:10.:54:14.

moment. By keeping the Chancellor, the Business Secretary, the Chief

:54:14.:54:17.

Secretary, they have signalled that they want to do more but they do

:54:17.:54:22.

not want to change economic policy either to please the right by

:54:22.:54:27.

introducing more tax cuts, or the left. Joining us now is the

:54:27.:54:31.

Conservative MP Peter Lilley, who has experienced numerous reshuffles

:54:31.:54:35.

after being Secretary of State for social security in the 1990s and

:54:35.:54:39.

held other posts, too. Let's pick up on the economy, has it been a

:54:39.:54:43.

mistake not to have done more to indicate any change in economic

:54:43.:54:48.

policy, bearing in mind the situation we are in? The principle

:54:48.:54:53.

hold up his lack of the regulation of supply-side policies, which is

:54:53.:55:02.

mainly a DETI function. -- D regulation. We have not heard about

:55:02.:55:05.

any liberals moving position, have we? They have all stayed in

:55:05.:55:09.

position, just David Laws coming back. I would have put David Laws

:55:09.:55:13.

where Vince Cable is. They could go somewhere else, he is an able

:55:13.:55:17.

person. You would like to see him bat, and that would have been a big

:55:17.:55:22.

kick-start to the economy. It would have been. What about Heathrow,

:55:22.:55:25.

Boris Johnson saying very quickly it is simply mad, but there will be

:55:25.:55:29.

those who will welcome a change in transport if it does actually

:55:29.:55:32.

signal that there is going to be a change in policy on airport

:55:32.:55:37.

expansion. A lot of people in London, and Boris may have annoyed,

:55:37.:55:41.

will think that London's future requires more airport capacity.

:55:41.:55:47.

you think so? I do, and it is either got to be at Heathrow or his

:55:47.:55:50.

island in the Thames Estuary or expand Stansted or Gatwick. But we

:55:50.:55:55.

need more capacity, no doubt about that, business is crying out for it.

:55:55.:56:00.

Is that not the case? Many-layered MPs think there should be airport

:56:00.:56:06.

expansion and another runway at Heathrow. -- Many Labor MPs. I do

:56:06.:56:10.

not think Justine Greening would have disappeared -- disagreed with

:56:10.:56:15.

that. It is a question of where you locate it. Justine Greening has

:56:15.:56:19.

been in that job 10 months, and I'm afraid the Conservative government

:56:19.:56:27.

is going to again turnover an election pledge to not build the

:56:27.:56:32.

third runway at Heathrow. That must be the message we take. That is why

:56:32.:56:36.

Boris Johnson accepts there must be more airport capacity. I am not

:56:36.:56:41.

going to defend him, but it is a question of where it is. What about

:56:41.:56:45.

the party? You know, we talked about Tim Montgomerie saying the

:56:45.:56:48.

party will be pleased, they will be happier with the people that have

:56:48.:56:53.

been put in many positions. Do you agree? I think on the whole they

:56:53.:56:58.

will. Parts of the party will, some able people have moved forward,

:56:58.:57:04.

Chris Grayling, the most notable, very able, and he could have

:57:04.:57:07.

replaced Iain Duncan Smith, if he had accepted the justice job.

:57:07.:57:12.

you think he should have done? is up to him, really. I would have

:57:12.:57:16.

preferred it if he had, because I a thing he is more of a natural

:57:16.:57:20.

person to do that job than Chris Grayling. -- I think. Chris

:57:20.:57:25.

Grayling is not just a hardline right-wing, he is very imaginative.

:57:25.:57:30.

I am right wing in almost everything except law and order,

:57:30.:57:35.

and there I supported Ken Clarke's emphasis on rehabilitation. We want

:57:35.:57:38.

to make sure that people who commit offences do not reoffend, rather

:57:38.:57:42.

than having the pleasure of giving them luxury accommodation at

:57:42.:57:47.

�50,000 per year. What about Ken Clarke's new roving role as an

:57:47.:57:50.

economic adviser? Will that help communicate the message on the

:57:50.:57:57.

economy? If I'm honest, and just in the privacy of his studio, I would

:57:57.:58:02.

have thought it is quite risky, because Ken Clarke is not very well

:58:02.:58:06.

house-trained, and he will say all sorts of things which will be taken

:58:06.:58:11.

as critical of all different from what George Osborne is saying, and

:58:11.:58:16.

that will lead to confusion. time, sorry, time just before we go

:58:16.:58:20.

to find out the answer to our quiz, remember that? Seven suits

:58:20.:58:23.

belonging to Margaret Thatcher were up for auction at Christie's

:58:23.:58:33.
:58:33.:58:38.

Margaret Hodge, what is the correct answer? I think it is 73,000.

:58:38.:58:43.

are right, did you know? I think I read it somewhere! Thank you for

:58:43.:58:48.

being our guest of the day. The One O'Clock News are starting on BBC

:58:48.:58:51.

Jo Coburn with all the latest political news including coverage of the government reshuffle, and guests including Labour's Margaret Hodge and the Conservative MP Jacob Rees-Mogg.


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