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Afternoon, folks. Welcome to our first Liberal Democrat Daily | :00:46. | :00:56. | |
:00:56. | :00:58. | ||
Gategate rumbles on. Conservative Chief Whip Andrew Mitchell returns | :00:58. | :01:01. | |
to the gates outside Number 10 to apologise but still refuses to say | :01:01. | :01:05. | |
what words he actually used. I am very clear about what I said and | :01:05. | :01:10. | |
what I did not say. I did not use the words that have been attributed | :01:10. | :01:14. | |
to me. The Liberal Democrats continue their autumn conference | :01:14. | :01:21. | |
shindig in Brighton. Today it is the turn of Vince The Cable to wow | :01:21. | :01:24. | |
the party faithful. We will ask Lib Dem bigwigs Jeremy Browne and Simon | :01:24. | :01:27. | |
Hughes why they want to tax the affluent until the pips squeak. And | :01:27. | :01:30. | |
we will test the mood of the party's foot soldiers. Are they | :01:30. | :01:40. | |
:01:40. | :01:48. | ||
ready to forgive and forget? I am sorry if. I am of so, so Surrey | :01:48. | :01:54. | |
bus-stop -- so, so sorry. All that in the next hour. And, with us for | :01:55. | :02:01. | |
the duration, Miranda Green. She's a journalist who used to be press | :02:01. | :02:07. | |
secretary to Paddy Ashdown when he was Lib Dem leader. That does not | :02:07. | :02:12. | |
make a bad person. Let's start of the row over what Andrew Mitchell | :02:12. | :02:18. | |
did what did not save two police officers in an incident over | :02:18. | :02:26. | |
bicycle rage. The Sun says it has seen a police lock confirming that | :02:26. | :02:33. | |
Mr Mitchell did swear at the officers. It does confirm, they say, | :02:33. | :02:40. | |
he used the politically toxic word, peps. The Chief Whip denies using | :02:40. | :02:45. | |
that language. We were told Mr Major would be making a statement | :02:45. | :02:54. | |
at those very same Downing Street gates. He ditched the ministerial | :02:54. | :03:01. | |
car for a Polo. Much smaller but German. What exactly did you say to | :03:01. | :03:06. | |
those police officers outside Downing Street? First of all, a | :03:06. | :03:10. | |
want to reiterate the apology I made last week after the incident | :03:10. | :03:16. | |
on Wednesday night in Downing Street. It had been the end of a | :03:16. | :03:22. | |
long and extremely frustrating day. That is not an excuse. I did not | :03:22. | :03:25. | |
show the police the amount of respect and should have done. They | :03:25. | :03:30. | |
do an incredibly difficult job. I have apologised to the police and | :03:30. | :03:35. | |
the police officer involved and he has accepted my apology. I hope we | :03:35. | :03:41. | |
can draw a line underneath it. police a clear about what was said. | :03:41. | :03:46. | |
You do not seem to be. I am clear about what I said and what they did | :03:46. | :03:51. | |
not say. I did not use the words that have been attributed to me. I | :03:51. | :04:01. | |
:04:01. | :04:03. | ||
am going to get on with my work. What did you say? Did that achieve | :04:03. | :04:10. | |
anything? I think he fluffed it badly. Yesterday, it seemed the | :04:10. | :04:14. | |
heat was living off this slightly. It seems to have stoked the fire | :04:14. | :04:23. | |
once again. -- was moving off this slightly. Can Downing Street be | :04:23. | :04:29. | |
advising him? If they are, why would they let him do that? | :04:29. | :04:34. | |
Chief Whip is supposed be an invisible figure. The Chief Whip | :04:34. | :04:38. | |
visibly it is an embarrassment to the Government. One I would anyone | :04:38. | :04:44. | |
advising him think, getting out of that car and speaking for about a | :04:44. | :04:48. | |
minute, saying what he said, was going to do any good for him | :04:48. | :04:53. | |
whatsoever? It just gives it legs and everyone more material to roll | :04:53. | :05:03. | |
with for another 24 hours. I do think this question of the key word, | :05:03. | :05:10. | |
what attitude does it expose? speak to Tom Newton Dunn, the | :05:10. | :05:18. | |
journalist who broke the story and Kevin Maguire of the Daily Mirror. | :05:18. | :05:24. | |
Have you seen the police contemporaneous account - the | :05:24. | :05:31. | |
police statement - of what they said happened? Yes, we have. Well, | :05:31. | :05:41. | |
:05:41. | :05:41. | ||
I have. It was a full report filed by the main police constable. It | :05:41. | :05:46. | |
was a WPC to begin with and a male PC afterwards, who stepped in to | :05:46. | :05:51. | |
help pad his embattled female colleague. The male constable wrote | :05:51. | :06:00. | |
down everything of the exchange. He used both his note in his pocket | :06:00. | :06:06. | |
Burke and the contemporaneous note in the pocket book of his WPC and | :06:06. | :06:10. | |
father report to his supervisors. He said the reason why he filed it | :06:10. | :06:15. | |
is because he was worried about what Mr Mitchell was going to do as | :06:15. | :06:21. | |
a result of this. The final words to him were, you have not heard the | :06:21. | :06:29. | |
last of theirs. You are saying it is a policeman and a police woman | :06:29. | :06:36. | |
involved. I'll be saying that Mr Mitchell swore at the police woman? | :06:36. | :06:41. | |
-- are you saying? It is not entirely sure that Mr Mitchell did | :06:41. | :06:49. | |
swear at the police were month. It is not reported that he did. -- the | :06:49. | :06:57. | |
Police woman. The police women said she could not open the gates. The | :06:57. | :07:03. | |
Mail PC came over. From that moment onwards, he did start swearing and | :07:03. | :07:11. | |
the insults. -- the male policeman. According to the record of the | :07:11. | :07:17. | |
police, it shows that he used the word, plebs. It is a bit more | :07:17. | :07:22. | |
colourful than that. No aspect of blushes with the Anglo Saxon word | :07:22. | :07:32. | |
:07:32. | :07:33. | ||
that came before it. By roughly get it. I am of a gentle disposition. - | :07:33. | :07:40. | |
- I roughly get it. When you hear what Tom has said and what The Sun | :07:40. | :07:44. | |
has done, can you see what the point is that of the appearance by | :07:44. | :07:50. | |
Mr Mitchell at 8 o'clock this morning? Only if it was to make it | :07:50. | :07:57. | |
worse. Probably the worst apology since Ron Davies was out in words, | :07:57. | :08:03. | |
it said to be out to encounter a man and he said he was looking for | :08:03. | :08:09. | |
badgers in broad daylight. It was absolutely crazy. He has to say, | :08:09. | :08:16. | |
did he call them plebs or not? He said he did not use the words | :08:16. | :08:23. | |
attributed to him. What were they? We want to know. He needs to come | :08:23. | :08:29. | |
back out and say what he said. He has evaded it. People will reap the | :08:29. | :08:38. | |
very worst into a performance by him today. -- read. Do you think we | :08:38. | :08:44. | |
can see a facsimile of the notebook? Anything like that? | :08:44. | :08:49. | |
leave it for the moment that we have seen it? I took a verbatim | :08:49. | :08:58. | |
note of it in my notebooks. We have the pull transcript. My short hand | :08:59. | :09:04. | |
is so bad, it is worse than a vending you with Anglo Saxon | :09:05. | :09:11. | |
language. A want to get on to the Lib Dems was up -- offending youth. | :09:11. | :09:16. | |
Where does the story go from here? It is not going to go anywhere from | :09:17. | :09:22. | |
here. It is not going to go away. What we were expecting this morning, | :09:22. | :09:28. | |
our colleagues back in Westminster in the lobby, was for the spokesman | :09:28. | :09:31. | |
of the Prime Minister to say the Cabinet Office and the Cabinet | :09:31. | :09:37. | |
Secretary have risen to calls from very senior policemen and Yvette | :09:37. | :09:41. | |
Cooper, the Shadow Home Secretary, to actually tried to look into this. | :09:41. | :09:48. | |
They have talked to the police, anything to try to get to the | :09:48. | :09:53. | |
bottom of he says, she says. That is where we are now. What I find | :09:53. | :09:57. | |
staggering is that the spokesman for the Prime Minister has said, | :09:57. | :10:02. | |
move on, there is no story here. The Prime Minister believes the | :10:02. | :10:07. | |
account of Mr Mitchell. That is saying I believe the camp by Mr | :10:07. | :10:13. | |
Mitchell over the words of some of the best offices the Met has. -- | :10:13. | :10:17. | |
the account. I think the Prime Minister has made an enormous error | :10:17. | :10:25. | |
in doing that. Are the Lib Dem delegates buying the economy from | :10:25. | :10:31. | |
Mr Clegg and the bash the rich rhetoric? Is that allowing him to | :10:31. | :10:36. | |
live another day? Did they think at some stage we will have to ditch | :10:36. | :10:43. | |
him? I think they know it is over for him. Privately, he may feel | :10:43. | :10:49. | |
that as well. Conference is a very tribal affair. All the rhetoric is | :10:49. | :10:54. | |
against the Conservatives. It is almost as if Labour does not exist. | :10:54. | :10:59. | |
All the fire is focused on the coalition partner. It is very hard | :10:59. | :11:04. | |
to get on and work closely with the people you have spent the week | :11:04. | :11:11. | |
slagging off in very colourful terms. How do you read it? There is | :11:11. | :11:16. | |
no leadership challenge this week. You can confirm that, I think. What | :11:16. | :11:24. | |
happens after that? It is a bit like the Tories. And the fortunes | :11:24. | :11:30. | |
of Cameron to a lesser extent. If the economy starts picking up and I | :11:31. | :11:35. | |
get decent growth results for the next quarter, two months of growth | :11:35. | :11:39. | |
by the end of January, pressure might alleviate a bit. If it does | :11:39. | :11:45. | |
not go anywhere, Norman Clegg is in the same position next year as the | :11:45. | :11:55. | |
:11:55. | :12:04. | ||
ship, he will be in enormous Thank you for joining us from | :12:04. | :12:14. | |
:12:14. | :12:18. | ||
It is clear the strategy of Mr Clegg. This has come on the eve of | :12:18. | :12:24. | |
the conference. There is a lot of bashed the rich rhetoric coming out. | :12:24. | :12:31. | |
Will it work? -- bash. There is a move to try to move on into a new | :12:31. | :12:35. | |
phase with the apology. The idea that over the summer something that | :12:35. | :12:42. | |
was put to bed was the dream of House of Lords reform. Saying they | :12:42. | :12:49. | |
will not thank the boundary changes for the House of Commons. That is | :12:49. | :12:55. | |
very messy and unpleasant. Both sides got nothing for nothing. | :12:55. | :12:59. | |
is behind us. Now they are saying they need to move forward and make | :12:59. | :13:04. | |
it absolutely clear they are concentrating front and centre on | :13:04. | :13:09. | |
the economy. Everything this week is about the economy. That is right | :13:09. | :13:17. | |
and proper. Putting that reform agenda behind them with it -- with | :13:17. | :13:22. | |
the economy - a rubber Withey apology. Whether that goes over | :13:22. | :13:32. | |
:13:32. | :13:32. | ||
with the public, that is another matter. -- behind them with the | :13:32. | :13:38. | |
apology. Now it is time for the daily quiz. Which Lib Dem has not | :13:38. | :13:48. | |
:13:48. | :13:53. | ||
been texting Ed Miliband and other At the end of the show, the Randa | :13:53. | :14:01. | |
will have the correct answer. Now the theme of this party conference | :14:01. | :14:04. | |
is to put a bit of yellow water between the Lib Dems and their | :14:04. | :14:11. | |
Conservative coalition partners. Nick Clegg has dug his heels in | :14:11. | :14:21. | |
:14:21. | :14:22. | ||
over extra cuts in public spending. He has said he will not allow any | :14:22. | :14:27. | |
more up to the end of the next spending round. He is concentrating | :14:27. | :14:32. | |
on taxing the rich further. Mr Clegg wants to bring in more money | :14:32. | :14:39. | |
by targeting the better off. He made a thinly veiled strike at | :14:39. | :14:45. | |
George Osborne, saying they will not allow some of the wild | :14:45. | :14:48. | |
suggestions from the right of politics that all the savings will | :14:48. | :14:54. | |
come from welfare. He plans to target the top 10% - that means | :14:54. | :15:01. | |
anyone earning over �50,500 a year before tax. Plans for a so-called | :15:01. | :15:05. | |
Pensham property scheme, whereby savers could use lump sums in | :15:05. | :15:09. | |
pension pots to guarantee part of the mortgage taken up by children | :15:09. | :15:15. | |
or grandchildren. Some estimates suggest about 12,000 people would | :15:15. | :15:22. | |
take up the offer. People over 55 can already cash up to 25% of their | :15:22. | :15:27. | |
pension pot tax free. Vince Cable will announce today plans to set up | :15:27. | :15:32. | |
any business bank. He will save 1 billion has been found to help set | :15:32. | :15:38. | |
up the bank, which it is hoped will increase lending to small and maybe | :15:38. | :15:42. | |
a medium-sized businesses. It is unclear where the Treasury has | :15:42. | :15:45. | |
banned this money, nor has any private funding been pledged to | :15:46. | :15:52. | |
Joining me now from Brighton is the Liberal Democrat Home Office | :15:52. | :15:59. | |
minister Jeremy Browne. Grew to see you. We are missing New Delhi here! | :15:59. | :16:07. | |
I am missing you, too. -- We Are Missing You. Anyway, your leader | :16:07. | :16:12. | |
once more taxes on the most affluent 10% of the country and he | :16:12. | :16:16. | |
wants that before the election. What sort of taxes does he want on | :16:16. | :16:22. | |
the top 10%? There has been some misrepresentation about this in the | :16:22. | :16:27. | |
media today. The Daily Mirror said Nick Clegg is targeting the poor. | :16:27. | :16:32. | |
The Daily Mail said Nick Clegg is targeting the rich. The reality is, | :16:32. | :16:37. | |
he is explaining that we as a country are in a big hole, we have | :16:37. | :16:43. | |
a big deficit still, and to use a slightly dated terminology, we need | :16:43. | :16:47. | |
a collective effort to make sure that we get national finances back | :16:47. | :16:53. | |
on track. I understand that but let me ask my question again. I | :16:53. | :16:59. | |
understand all of that. But Nick Clegg said he wants the top 10% to | :17:00. | :17:05. | |
contribute more so I ask you again, in what way should the top 10% | :17:05. | :17:11. | |
contribute more? We have had some changes, you will remember at the | :17:11. | :17:15. | |
last Budget one of the announcements that was made, it did | :17:15. | :17:20. | |
not get as much attention as some of the others, was stamp duty on | :17:20. | :17:25. | |
more expensive properties. There have been changes on capital gains | :17:25. | :17:32. | |
tax. But he says he wants more. I know what has happened... What does | :17:32. | :17:37. | |
he want? I know what he has done. Please tell the viewers, what more | :17:37. | :17:46. | |
does he want the 10% to do? I have never in my memory in politics seen | :17:46. | :17:50. | |
announcements about budget measures made at a party conference on a | :17:50. | :17:56. | |
programme like yours. There will be an autumn statement in a couple of | :17:56. | :18:00. | |
months' time, there will be a budget, and what will be at the | :18:00. | :18:05. | |
heart of that budget is a Lib Dem commitment that we will get to | :18:05. | :18:08. | |
grips with the terrible public finances but we will make sure that | :18:08. | :18:13. | |
the people who have a means to make a contribution are asked to make a | :18:13. | :18:16. | |
contribution rather than that burden falling on the poorest | :18:16. | :18:21. | |
people who have the least ability to make their contribution. | :18:21. | :18:26. | |
understand that. You know I am not asking you for a Budget statement. | :18:26. | :18:32. | |
I am not even asking for the Autumn Statement, which will come first. I | :18:32. | :18:36. | |
am simply asking you, since your leader has at the top 10% needs to | :18:36. | :18:43. | |
do more, what ways with your party do more? Let me help you. Let me | :18:43. | :18:49. | |
ask a question. The top 10% in this country of income earners account | :18:49. | :18:57. | |
for 55% of all income tax paid. The top 10% account for 55% of all | :18:57. | :19:04. | |
income tax paid. Should they pay more? Well... I don't dispute the | :19:05. | :19:09. | |
figure. The point I am making is that there are a number of ways | :19:09. | :19:15. | |
that the most affluent people can make a greater contribution. You | :19:15. | :19:20. | |
have used one crude measurement based on income tax. We tend to say | :19:20. | :19:25. | |
as a party that we want people to be incentivised to work and to keep | :19:25. | :19:28. | |
a reasonable proportion of their income. We would rather the burden | :19:28. | :19:33. | |
of taxation fell in a different place than penalising enterprise | :19:33. | :19:37. | |
and endeavour and hard work. I don't think the party is | :19:37. | :19:43. | |
instinctively drawn... I imagine you are talking about the basic | :19:43. | :19:48. | |
rate and upper rate of taxation but this will be in the Budget. There | :19:48. | :19:53. | |
are a number of ways that people can pay more tax. I have given you | :19:53. | :19:58. | |
a couple of examples. A you have not given me any examples. | :19:58. | :20:06. | |
government increased capital gains tax. Should it increase it more? | :20:06. | :20:11. | |
introduced a stamp duty for the most expensive homes. That fell | :20:11. | :20:15. | |
disproportionately on the most affluent as well. There are tax | :20:16. | :20:21. | |
measures where you can, without changing income tax levels, get | :20:21. | :20:24. | |
some additional revenue from people who are most able to make a | :20:24. | :20:29. | |
contribution to make a bigger effort to try and have this huge | :20:29. | :20:33. | |
project of national renewal, which is that we are borrowing and | :20:33. | :20:38. | |
billion pounds every three days... I understand that. Nick Clegg is | :20:38. | :20:42. | |
not saying that this can all be achieved by taxing the rich and | :20:42. | :20:47. | |
that everybody else needs to stand back and let the richest people in | :20:47. | :20:51. | |
society sort the problem out. That is not the solution. Everybody is | :20:51. | :20:56. | |
going to have to realise that we are in a deep hole as a country. | :20:56. | :21:01. | |
understand that. But Nick Clegg is saying that the people at the top | :21:01. | :21:06. | |
will have to be asked to make a contribution... I understand that | :21:06. | :21:11. | |
but I can't get you to tell me what it means. Let me try you again in a | :21:11. | :21:15. | |
different way. If I can't tell you what will be in the Budget. We will | :21:15. | :21:21. | |
go round and round. I am asking what your party things. Nick Clegg | :21:21. | :21:28. | |
has called for the top 10% in our society to do more. The top 10%, in | :21:28. | :21:34. | |
terms of income, includes primary- school Deputy Head Teachers, police | :21:34. | :21:39. | |
inspectors and senior nurses. Should they be contributing more? | :21:39. | :21:45. | |
am not sure he did say top 10% in terms of income. I think the figure | :21:45. | :21:50. | |
in terms of income... That was how the media chose to interpret it. | :21:50. | :21:56. | |
What is it then? There are very wealthy people who have very modest | :21:56. | :21:59. | |
incomes. This is the debate we have with Mitt Romney in the United | :21:59. | :22:04. | |
States of America, who has a lot of wealth but his income for income | :22:04. | :22:13. | |
tax purposes is a relatively modest, so people have wealth without | :22:13. | :22:17. | |
necessarily earning large amount of income, so there are a number of | :22:17. | :22:21. | |
ways that the government could look at how we can have additional | :22:21. | :22:26. | |
revenue from the most affluent people to try to make sure that... | :22:26. | :22:34. | |
OK, all right. To try to get down the deficit. Enlighten us, Mr Brown. | :22:34. | :22:39. | |
If he is not talking about the top 10% of income earners, what 10% is | :22:39. | :22:45. | |
he talking about? The point I am making, I have just made it but I | :22:45. | :22:51. | |
will try to make it again, that you can be a wealthy person without | :22:51. | :22:54. | |
necessarily earning that much income. You could have inherited a | :22:54. | :23:00. | |
lot of wealth, for example. That is why we changed the rate of taxation | :23:00. | :23:07. | |
for capital gains tax from 18% up to 22% earlier in the parliament. I | :23:07. | :23:12. | |
think there are a number of ways that the Treasury can look, at the | :23:12. | :23:19. | |
Autumn Statement and in the Budget, to have the public expenditure we | :23:19. | :23:23. | |
need and the revenue we need to address the deficit. But there is | :23:23. | :23:28. | |
no magic alternative plan. People in newspaper columns talk as if | :23:28. | :23:32. | |
only Ed Balls were Chancellor tomorrow we would have growth and | :23:32. | :23:37. | |
no unemployment. The truth is, whoever is in government, we have | :23:37. | :23:45. | |
got to get to grips with the fact that we have a problem with the big | :23:45. | :23:49. | |
deficit left to us by a Labour, which will mean that people with | :23:49. | :23:52. | |
the greatest of means will make a contribution to eradicate that | :23:52. | :23:58. | |
deficit. Thank you for joining us. Whether he will buy me a drink | :23:58. | :24:01. | |
after that is another matter! So as Nick Clegg's bruised and | :24:01. | :24:03. | |
battered party troops wander round the rain-soaked conference centre | :24:03. | :24:06. | |
in Brighton, are they their usual happy-go-lucky selves? Or is their | :24:06. | :24:09. | |
mood a little more despondent? Down? Depressed? Nick Clegg tried | :24:09. | :24:13. | |
his best last week to cheer them all up by apologising for his | :24:13. | :24:17. | |
tuition fees pledge. A move which led to a remixed version set to pop | :24:18. | :24:22. | |
music entering the charts at number 143. It is a bit like their poll | :24:22. | :24:27. | |
ratings. But are the Lib Dems in a forgiving mood? Our Adam has taken | :24:27. | :24:30. | |
the Daily Politics mood box to the seaside to find out. | :24:30. | :24:36. | |
All the talk is about Nick Clegg saying sorry over tuition fees, but | :24:36. | :24:41. | |
are the delegates are ready to forgive him? Yes or no? | :24:41. | :24:48. | |
Do you forgive him? Yes. Why is he deserving of forgiveness? Because | :24:48. | :24:54. | |
he said it from the heart. It is a mission of how he feels. I feel | :24:54. | :25:02. | |
that. -- it is an admission. We had no apology for Iraq. We have had no | :25:02. | :25:06. | |
apology for the mess the last government left us with financially. | :25:06. | :25:12. | |
And they were huge! I do for give him but I cannot forgive him for | :25:12. | :25:16. | |
the fact he made that promise and went against it. That is the number | :25:16. | :25:20. | |
one barer a politician can make. The press should be asking | :25:20. | :25:25. | |
forgiveness for all the students to put off going to university by | :25:25. | :25:29. | |
misrepresenting the policy. I think he was right to apologise but he | :25:29. | :25:37. | |
should have done it two years ago. Am I ready to forgive him? Yes, and | :25:37. | :25:45. | |
know. Too little, too late. -- yes, and no. Somebody has said to me | :25:45. | :25:49. | |
that quite a lot of people quit the party over tuition fees so they are | :25:49. | :25:57. | |
not even here to vote no. # I'm sorry, I'm sorry #. | :25:57. | :26:01. | |
# It is very hard to say that I'm sorry #. | :26:01. | :26:07. | |
You have saved me 79p. Thank you very much! | :26:07. | :26:13. | |
Do you think it has done damage? Definitely. That is why an apology | :26:13. | :26:18. | |
was needed and was welcome. All of us have learnt things from this | :26:18. | :26:23. | |
episode. I said the other day, we are a party that prides itself on | :26:24. | :26:33. | |
integrity. Nick said sorry. Do you forgive him? Yes! Anything you want | :26:33. | :26:38. | |
to apologise for? I would echo his apology on a pledge that we made | :26:38. | :26:43. | |
but sadly could not keep. I would have forgiven him if his apology | :26:43. | :26:48. | |
had been accompanied by his letter of resignation. What do you say to | :26:48. | :26:53. | |
the people who do not want to forgive him? We are not in North | :26:53. | :26:58. | |
Korea. We are a Liberal Party in one of the most liberal-minded | :26:58. | :27:04. | |
countries in the world, not everybody is required to agree. | :27:04. | :27:13. | |
Have a look at what I have just That will be a collector's item! | :27:13. | :27:20. | |
Miranda Green is still with us. Am I right in getting a sense that at | :27:20. | :27:26. | |
this conference, the Lib Dems are kind of talking to themselves, and | :27:26. | :27:31. | |
they have to? I think that is absolutely right. It is quite an | :27:31. | :27:34. | |
inward-looking week for the Lib Dems and they don't have much | :27:34. | :27:39. | |
choice about it. This journey they have been on in the last two years, | :27:39. | :27:44. | |
and coalition has turned out to be even more painful than they | :27:44. | :27:47. | |
anticipated, they really need to have a very hard think about not | :27:47. | :27:53. | |
just positioning but fundamental questions, who are we for and to do | :27:53. | :27:58. | |
we appeal to in the next general election? Those people on the soft | :27:58. | :28:02. | |
left, who always used to be drawn to the Lib Dems, are not | :28:02. | :28:07. | |
necessarily coming back. The whole thing coming out of the Lib Dem | :28:07. | :28:12. | |
conference has been, let's find ways to tax the affluent. Nick | :28:12. | :28:18. | |
Clegg used the figure of the top 10%. But Mr Brown was unable to | :28:18. | :28:23. | |
give me one example. That does not stand the test. If you can do the | :28:23. | :28:28. | |
aspiration but not give the detailed, what is the point? | :28:28. | :28:32. | |
think they are very conscious that George Osborne's decision to lower | :28:32. | :28:38. | |
the top income rate in the Budget has turned out to be very unpopular. | :28:38. | :28:43. | |
They did not want it to happen so they have to position themselves as | :28:43. | :28:47. | |
the party in a coalition who will ensure that as austerity goes on | :28:47. | :28:54. | |
for much longer than anybody thought... I totally agree, there... | :28:54. | :28:58. | |
If they are going to go into negotiation with George Osborne and | :28:58. | :29:02. | |
say, you want to cut welfare benefits and freeze the payments? | :29:02. | :29:09. | |
You will have to do these things to the most affluent. Whoever it is. | :29:09. | :29:14. | |
But they have to have a shopping- list of decent proposals. | :29:14. | :29:16. | |
Earlier this morning, conference debated how to generate growth and | :29:16. | :29:21. | |
jobs in a time of austerity. There have been grumblings by some party | :29:21. | :29:24. | |
members that the current coalition policy isn't working and that it is | :29:24. | :29:34. | |
:29:34. | :29:39. | ||
time to do something different. The UK economy is not a solace at | :29:39. | :29:45. | |
auction room - a mechanism - it is a seething mass of hopes and fears, | :29:45. | :29:50. | |
where government decisions shape the behaviour of millions of | :29:50. | :29:55. | |
workers and savers and consumers. Government needs a dynamic, not a | :29:55. | :30:03. | |
book-keepers model. The Governor is telling Mr Osborne not to be | :30:03. | :30:11. | |
obsessed with simple arithmetic. We need intelligent policy makers. | :30:11. | :30:16. | |
want, in particular, the Chancellor to stop attacking green industries. | :30:16. | :30:24. | |
He must choose between sustainable and predictable framework. The | :30:24. | :30:28. | |
Government needs to choose between be sustainable economy this party | :30:28. | :30:33. | |
has argued for four decades or right-wing Tory Party dogma. They | :30:33. | :30:40. | |
need to choose between a work strategy that works or Mr Osborne. | :30:40. | :30:45. | |
No longer can deficit reduction, by means of cuts in public spending, | :30:45. | :30:51. | |
beat the top priority. The priority must be boosting the economy and | :30:51. | :30:55. | |
reducing cuts or spreading them over a longer period. Let me say | :30:55. | :31:01. | |
one last thing. When spending begins to rise, the private sector | :31:01. | :31:08. | |
will regain its confidence. It is the poorest who can always be | :31:08. | :31:15. | |
counted to spend every penny they have. Forgive the rich tax cuts. | :31:15. | :31:20. | |
They will often not spend that money but invest it in foreign | :31:20. | :31:24. | |
investments. The poorest will spend all I have because it is the only | :31:24. | :31:29. | |
way they can try to maintain a reasonable standard of living. The | :31:29. | :31:34. | |
very worst way to boost our economy is to cut the benefits for the | :31:34. | :31:39. | |
poorest and to give tax cuts to the rich. I think the point of this | :31:39. | :31:46. | |
debate is about saying, what are we for as Liberal Democrats? I know | :31:46. | :31:53. | |
what I am for as a Liberal Democrat. I am for fairness. I am for social | :31:53. | :31:57. | |
justice and I am for a war on poverty. Danny Alexander does not | :31:57. | :32:04. | |
want us to be timid. Colleagues, neither do I. Can we stand by in | :32:04. | :32:09. | |
the vain hope that more liquidity will slosh around the banks and | :32:09. | :32:14. | |
find its way to the real economy? That is not enough. They cannot | :32:14. | :32:20. | |
afford to stick to a broken ideology. There are those in this | :32:20. | :32:26. | |
room who think that any deflection away from the Plan A will lead to a | :32:26. | :32:31. | |
massive spike in borrowing costs. We will become the next Greece or | :32:31. | :32:35. | |
Spain. That is patent rubbish. David Hall-Matthews, the chair of | :32:35. | :32:43. | |
the Social Liberal Forum, is in Brighton. You supported an | :32:43. | :32:47. | |
amendment calling on the coalition to adopt further measures to help | :32:47. | :32:56. | |
the economy. What Buddy's further measures? We need to introduce | :32:56. | :33:02. | |
wealth taxes and use those to pay for further investment in jobs. -- | :33:02. | :33:08. | |
what are these further measures? We have a deficit and the recession. | :33:08. | :33:12. | |
The recession has been going on far too long and the deficit reduction | :33:12. | :33:18. | |
plan is worsening it. It is time to tackle the recession by focusing on | :33:19. | :33:25. | |
employment, jobs and growth. We need to distinguish ourselves from | :33:25. | :33:31. | |
George Osborne. He is going down the wrong track. What you mean by a | :33:31. | :33:38. | |
wealth tax and how much will it raise? -- what do you mean? We need | :33:38. | :33:42. | |
to tax Mansions, land and the houses that pub built on it. We | :33:42. | :33:48. | |
need to look at ways to increase inheritance tax. -- that are built | :33:48. | :33:57. | |
on end. We need to increase capital gains tax further. On top of the | :33:57. | :34:05. | |
28% it has been raised to? Do you have any idea how much it would | :34:05. | :34:12. | |
raise - all of it? I cannot give the precise figures. If we added it | :34:12. | :34:15. | |
altogether, you would be getting close to the 10 billion that George | :34:15. | :34:19. | |
Osborne wants to save by cutting benefits to the very poorest and | :34:19. | :34:25. | |
most vulnerable. It is important to first target the most affluent. The | :34:26. | :34:31. | |
most vulnerable have been hit hard enough and the pips have already | :34:31. | :34:36. | |
squeaked. In a 1.5 trillion pounds economy, it your big idea is an | :34:36. | :34:43. | |
extra 10 billion in taxes too then invest in jobs. It is pretty | :34:43. | :34:49. | |
marginal, isn't it? To then invest. George Osborne was top of that - as | :34:49. | :34:53. | |
a good talking about taking 10 billion out of the welfare budget. | :34:53. | :34:58. | |
-- George Osborne was talking about. He began this interview by saying, | :34:59. | :35:05. | |
you take all this extra money from wealth taxes. You would take all | :35:05. | :35:09. | |
this extra money and invest it in the country, not music to stop | :35:09. | :35:17. | |
cutting the welfare bill. You said you would spend it. -- not to use | :35:17. | :35:25. | |
it. There is the Bank of England... It has money saved. The Government | :35:25. | :35:30. | |
is selling bonds effectively to itself was up there is money | :35:30. | :35:35. | |
sitting there, which could be used to invest directly in the economy. | :35:35. | :35:43. | |
-- to itself. It is time for the Government to start stimulating in | :35:43. | :35:47. | |
the old fashioned Keynesian way because we're not going to get out | :35:48. | :35:54. | |
of the recession. You have a vicious circle we need to turn into | :35:54. | :35:59. | |
a virtuous circle by releasing government funds, which were then | :35:59. | :36:04. | |
unlock the private sector. You may be right, you may be wrong | :36:04. | :36:09. | |
economically. Politically, you are not get any of that from the | :36:09. | :36:12. | |
Conservatives. You're in the wrong coalition with the wrong party. Why | :36:12. | :36:17. | |
don't you go into coalition with Labour? They agree with everything | :36:17. | :36:27. | |
:36:27. | :36:30. | ||
you have set foot stuck it is not up to me. -- everything you have. | :36:30. | :36:35. | |
It is self- evidently have a different approach to the economy | :36:35. | :36:42. | |
from the Conservatives. -- self evident that we have. We need to | :36:42. | :36:45. | |
recognise as Liberal Democrats that the way things are going are not | :36:45. | :36:51. | |
the way they should be. The planning is not working. It is not | :36:52. | :36:55. | |
producing the results and the deficit is not coming down very | :36:55. | :37:01. | |
fast and we are in recession. As Liberal Democrats we need to say | :37:01. | :37:05. | |
that and argue for that in public and in private. The more we say it | :37:05. | :37:09. | |
in public the more likely we are to get things at of the Conservatives | :37:09. | :37:15. | |
and the more the public will realise that is what we believe in. | :37:15. | :37:23. | |
-- out of the Conservatives. Thank you for joining me from Brighton. | :37:23. | :37:27. | |
Most people want things they were never get from the Conservatives. | :37:28. | :37:32. | |
Everything he has listed will not happen with Mr Osborne and Mr | :37:32. | :37:36. | |
Cameron that could happen with Labour. They must think they are in | :37:36. | :37:42. | |
coalition with the wrong party. There are two answers to that. The | :37:42. | :37:46. | |
activists who come to conference are not the same as the membership. | :37:46. | :37:52. | |
The membership is not the same as the voters. Not everyone who is | :37:52. | :37:55. | |
drawn to the Liberal Democrat party would agree with that set of | :37:55. | :38:02. | |
priorities. It queues up a -- at it flags up a key problem. They need | :38:02. | :38:07. | |
to negotiate a Spending Review compromised to differentiate the | :38:07. | :38:12. | |
two parties in the lead-up to the general election. It needs to | :38:12. | :38:17. | |
fashion a coherent programme to go through to 2016, in terms of tax | :38:17. | :38:22. | |
and spending are what you do about the deficit and the debt. They're | :38:22. | :38:29. | |
trying to fashion a narrower correct economic coalition plan | :38:29. | :38:36. | |
with a lot of the activist parties out of step. Two parties in one | :38:36. | :38:40. | |
government with radically different philosophies on tax. Sounds like a | :38:40. | :38:43. | |
recipe for confusion, at best. But that's what we've got with the | :38:43. | :38:47. | |
Coalition. Is it possible to blend the Lib Dem and Conservative | :38:47. | :38:50. | |
approaches to the pound in your pocket and, when it comes to tax, | :38:50. | :38:53. | |
do politicians of whatever party actually go after the right things? | :38:53. | :39:02. | |
Here's David Thompson. The city many gallery of the British Museum, | :39:02. | :39:05. | |
a fascinating history of the stuff that makes the world go round and | :39:05. | :39:09. | |
Harry tried to keep it out of the clutches of others. For as long as | :39:09. | :39:14. | |
there has been money, there has been tax. Politicians are very keen | :39:14. | :39:18. | |
to get their hands on our cash. This government is much the same, | :39:18. | :39:24. | |
except for this - there are two parties in it with different ideas | :39:24. | :39:29. | |
on what to tax and who should pay. George Osborne has been right in | :39:29. | :39:35. | |
terms of getting the deficit down. 80% has to be down to savings and | :39:35. | :39:41. | |
reductions in public spending and only 20% on tax rises. Otherwise, | :39:41. | :39:48. | |
the real risk of putting taxes up his the take may even come down. | :39:48. | :39:53. | |
Maybe not. The Tories basically have a view you need taxes as low | :39:53. | :39:58. | |
as possible. In my view, the Duke of Liberal Democrats, you need a | :39:58. | :40:05. | |
decent rate of tax and a fair rate of tax to have a civilised society. | :40:05. | :40:10. | |
We want a fair tax. The Tories have an instinct that says, of the less | :40:10. | :40:16. | |
we can be taxed, the better. According to the experts, that | :40:16. | :40:23. | |
Disconnect matters. If you look at the last Budget, there was an | :40:23. | :40:26. | |
increase in the personal allowance and the cut in the top rate of | :40:26. | :40:34. | |
income tax. That left a hole. More money needed to be found. Frankly, | :40:34. | :40:38. | |
they made a muddle of failing that whole with pasty tax and doing | :40:38. | :40:44. | |
things to the pension or allowance. It was seen as a quick-fix way to | :40:44. | :40:49. | |
fill a hole and put the two policies together. Overall, they do | :40:49. | :40:54. | |
not have a policy or strategy for the tax system. Nor did the last | :40:54. | :40:58. | |
government. It is more obvious when you have to coalition partners | :40:58. | :41:03. | |
trying to do the same things. it comes to tax, politicians of | :41:03. | :41:07. | |
whatever party are more scared of us than we are of them. It is very | :41:07. | :41:11. | |
easy to make a case to say the rich will pay more. There are very few | :41:11. | :41:16. | |
rich people. It is the middle- income, middle-class people, of | :41:16. | :41:21. | |
whom there are so many. You can bring in some quite significant | :41:21. | :41:26. | |
numbers. They make up the floating voters who determine any election. | :41:26. | :41:30. | |
That is the reason why there has to be a worry that, if you to maximise | :41:30. | :41:35. | |
that element of the tax take, he will pay a heavy political and | :41:35. | :41:39. | |
electoral price before too long. They still managed to hit us where | :41:39. | :41:45. | |
it hurts, where they were Lib Dem, Tory or a Time Lord, it seems tax | :41:45. | :41:48. | |
will always be taxing. David Thompson reporting. We're joined | :41:48. | :41:51. | |
now by Labour's Chris Leslie. He's the Shadow Financial Secretary to | :41:51. | :41:57. | |
the Treasury. When you hear the Lib Dems talking about the top 10% | :41:57. | :42:05. | |
making a bigger contribution, a mansion tax, changing the onus of | :42:05. | :42:09. | |
inheritance tax so it falls on recipients and other ways of | :42:09. | :42:14. | |
increasing taxes on the rich, the mass think this is a party we can | :42:14. | :42:19. | |
do business with? If you believe them. If you believe that they want | :42:19. | :42:24. | |
to see a fair tax system, that is not the experience we have seen. In | :42:24. | :42:32. | |
the Budget in March, we saw Nick Clegg happily cut the tax on | :42:32. | :42:39. | |
earnings over �150,000. He did not do it happily. That is a | :42:39. | :42:43. | |
misrepresentation. We do not know other than his actions. There are | :42:43. | :42:49. | |
lots of words in this conference today. It is quite clear they are | :42:49. | :42:52. | |
lobbying the Conservatives to raise taxes on the better off. Do you | :42:52. | :42:58. | |
agree with that? We will see whether they will do it. They may | :42:58. | :43:03. | |
well be lobbying them. We have said we disagree with the reduction in | :43:03. | :43:08. | |
the millionaire's tax. That was a fundamental dividing line. Which | :43:08. | :43:15. | |
you put the top rate back up to 50%? In this Parliament, of course, | :43:15. | :43:19. | |
that was the wrong choice for them to make. There are other choices. | :43:19. | :43:26. | |
Let me mention one thing... Of Bankers bonus levy. How much would | :43:26. | :43:33. | |
that raised? I think we said �2 billion. That would prioritise | :43:33. | :43:37. | |
construction for social housing and give money for a youth jobs | :43:37. | :43:44. | |
programme. What about the mansion tax? Are you in favour of that? | :43:44. | :43:48. | |
is almost a dance of the seven veils we're getting from Vince | :43:48. | :43:55. | |
Cable. Are you doing your own work on that? We have heard they are | :43:55. | :44:03. | |
talking about its, the Labour Party. His Ed Balls looking at the mansion | :44:03. | :44:10. | |
tax or not? We have a five-point plan for growth. So, is he not | :44:11. | :44:15. | |
looking at the mansion tax? We are happy to look at whatever the Lib | :44:15. | :44:24. | |
Dems put on the table. It is just hot air. If they say it will be on | :44:24. | :44:29. | |
houses over �2 million and on a particular timescale, we want the | :44:29. | :44:34. | |
details. How can we, as an opposition, react to the tax plans? | :44:34. | :44:39. | |
They do totally the opposite of what they say and even improve | :44:39. | :44:46. | |
things behind the scenes. I am not talking about the Lib Dems. You are | :44:46. | :44:52. | |
the opposition. In opposition, you have to have a look at a range of | :44:52. | :44:56. | |
policies. Are you looking at the mansion tax as a possible policy | :44:56. | :45:02. | |
for the next manifesto? We have talked about how much money we want | :45:02. | :45:07. | |
to raise in our five-point plan for star of IUD looking at the mansion | :45:07. | :45:15. | |
tax or not? -- in our five-point plan. Are you looking at the | :45:16. | :45:21. | |
mansion tax or not? If Nick Clegg persuades George Osborne they will | :45:21. | :45:27. | |
float more detail about this that we will look at it then. Ed Balls | :45:27. | :45:34. | |
was quoted... I am trying to find a way you may be able to do business. | :45:34. | :45:39. | |
Ed Balls was quoted in September saying, at the likes of a mansion | :45:39. | :45:45. | |
tax needs to be on the table of. is not on the table. There is a | :45:45. | :45:50. | |
headline. You up on the Labour table. You could say, why do we not | :45:51. | :46:00. | |
:46:01. | :46:02. | ||
make this a six. Plan? We have said where we meet to have many come up | :46:02. | :46:12. | |
on new house building. -- we need to have money - on new housing. It | :46:12. | :46:22. | |
:46:22. | :46:22. | ||
The Lib Dems want to move the inheritance tax to the recipients | :46:22. | :46:26. | |
because it is harder to get around that. At the moment, it falls on | :46:26. | :46:31. | |
the person who is leaving the money behind. The Lib Dems say you should | :46:31. | :46:35. | |
tax the people who receive it, because that way it is much harder | :46:35. | :46:41. | |
to get around it. Do you agree? That is a false distinction. Of | :46:41. | :46:46. | |
course the person who is requesting it will not be taxed because they | :46:46. | :46:52. | |
are no longer around -- bequeathing it. The person who receives it is | :46:52. | :46:56. | |
paying it. Again, where is the detail? Is this fantasy politics | :46:56. | :47:06. | |
:47:06. | :47:06. | ||
from the Liberals? They should put it in a song. You got that lining! | :47:06. | :47:14. | |
-- line in. Vince Cable has been speaking to conference. We were | :47:14. | :47:19. | |
waiting for some coded messages about the leadership! | :47:19. | :47:26. | |
I am a realist, but deep down an optimist. We cannot recreate this | :47:27. | :47:31. | |
false paradise of the pre-crisis era but we are perfectly capable of | :47:31. | :47:37. | |
sustaining growth in this country. And to that end, I believe we need | :47:37. | :47:41. | |
an industrial strategy, which is a positive, ambitious vision built | :47:41. | :47:47. | |
around long term investment in innovation and skills and science. | :47:47. | :47:53. | |
We are so good at so many things in this country. But for far too long, | :47:53. | :47:59. | |
the mirage of growth based on property speculation and financial | :47:59. | :48:02. | |
gambling has hidden the heart of virtues of making things | :48:02. | :48:12. | |
:48:12. | :48:12. | ||
productively. APPLAUSE. So we have got to get behind successful | :48:12. | :48:19. | |
British-based firms, in vehicles and aerospace, life sciences and | :48:19. | :48:23. | |
creative industries, and world- class scientists at University. I | :48:23. | :48:29. | |
have been working to make that happen. Despite spending cuts, we | :48:29. | :48:34. | |
have increased apprenticeships by over 60%. We have launched German- | :48:34. | :48:38. | |
style innovation centres so that British industry can access the | :48:38. | :48:43. | |
newest technologies are in advanced manufacturing, by geosciences, | :48:43. | :48:47. | |
sustainable energy and digital. We are bringing lost supply chains | :48:47. | :48:51. | |
back to Britain. The Green Investment Bank is getting up and | :48:51. | :48:56. | |
running, to finance the green industries of the future. We have | :48:56. | :49:02. | |
had some real successes. That is working with the American Chiefs of | :49:02. | :49:07. | |
General Motors, and British trades unions, to save thousands of a | :49:07. | :49:17. | |
:49:17. | :49:21. | ||
Working with the Indian owners of Jaguar Land Rover to create a | :49:21. | :49:25. | |
global hub in the West Midlands for design and vehicle engineering. | :49:25. | :49:31. | |
APPLAUSE. And boosting research to keep Britain as the second | :49:31. | :49:35. | |
Aerospace economy in the world, and working with Siemens and others to | :49:35. | :49:41. | |
develop offshore renewables engineering in Hull, a key local | :49:41. | :49:47. | |
and Industry. There are some common threads to this. One is an | :49:47. | :49:54. | |
understanding that it markets fail and that governments can and should | :49:54. | :50:00. | |
sensibly intervene. The other is the will to fight the British curse | :50:00. | :50:10. | |
:50:10. | :50:15. | ||
of short term-ism. The strategy can only work if fine and supports | :50:15. | :50:23. | |
business investment and growth and currently it does not. -- only work | :50:23. | :50:29. | |
if government supports. Our leading banks to traditional banking | :50:29. | :50:35. | |
relationships out and sold useless and dodgy derivatives instead, and | :50:35. | :50:42. | |
useless insurance. And public anger at the greed and stupidity in this | :50:42. | :50:49. | |
industry will continue for a long time. But I want to look forward. I | :50:49. | :50:59. | |
:50:59. | :51:00. | ||
want to work with a new generation of sensible... To support the | :51:00. | :51:07. | |
economy. We must now influence the pioneering possibility of splitting | :51:07. | :51:11. | |
investments banks from mainstream personal banking, as in the figures | :51:11. | :51:21. | |
:51:21. | :51:23. | ||
report. -- Vickers report. Without Liberal Democrats in government, | :51:23. | :51:30. | |
you can be absolutely sure this would not have happened. APPLAUSE. | :51:31. | :51:37. | |
But there is still so much to do. Four years ago, a massive taxpayer | :51:37. | :51:42. | |
bail-out stopped RBS from dragging the whole economy over a cliff, and | :51:42. | :51:49. | |
two years ago there was even talk of an early sell-off. That is | :51:49. | :51:56. | |
history. It is now getting more shipshape and it needs direction | :51:56. | :52:02. | |
from us, after all, we own it, to get it off steam and lend more to | :52:02. | :52:10. | |
British businesses. This is no time for the state to be stepping back. | :52:10. | :52:17. | |
APPLAUSE. We need a new British business bank with a clean balance | :52:17. | :52:21. | |
sheet and an ability to expand lending rapidly to the | :52:21. | :52:26. | |
manufacturers, the exporters, a high-growth companies that power | :52:26. | :52:32. | |
the economy and I can announce today that we will have that. | :52:32. | :52:35. | |
Cable, speaking to the Lib Dem Conference in Brighton just a few | :52:35. | :52:39. | |
moments ago. He also said he thought coalition government of | :52:39. | :52:43. | |
some sort was here to stay, that the British people would not choose | :52:43. | :52:48. | |
one party at the next election to run the country. Some people | :52:48. | :52:54. | |
thought it was a big "come on" to the Labour Party, and an active | :52:54. | :52:58. | |
role for the state. And we can talk now to the Lib Dem deputy leader, | :52:58. | :53:02. | |
Simon Hughes. He was texting away there just before he came on air, | :53:02. | :53:07. | |
probably sending a few messages to Ed Miliband and Ed Balls. Just | :53:07. | :53:14. | |
teasing! The government is only putting a billion pounds into this | :53:14. | :53:18. | |
state bank. We don't even know where that money is coming from and | :53:18. | :53:23. | |
it won't even start for 18 months. It will do nothing for small | :53:23. | :53:29. | |
businesses in the recession. Correct? You are correct it will be | :53:29. | :53:33. | |
a billion pounds government down payment, it will be matched by | :53:33. | :53:38. | |
private finance. The idea is it will produce about 10 billion and | :53:38. | :53:41. | |
it is specifically addressed so that in this parliament, the | :53:41. | :53:45. | |
problem that has bedevilled small and medium businesses, which is | :53:45. | :53:51. | |
getting money from the banks, will be dealt with. It is the second | :53:51. | :53:55. | |
initiative because we have already started and Investment Bank | :53:55. | :54:02. | |
specifically for green products. -- an investment bank. You are going | :54:02. | :54:07. | |
to ask the taxpayer to guarantee funds. They will go into small | :54:07. | :54:12. | |
businesses that have already been turned down by the commercial banks. | :54:12. | :54:16. | |
What collateral will we get for these loans? The bank will work out | :54:16. | :54:21. | |
a way of doing it that so despise them, and for the government that | :54:21. | :54:26. | |
it is a viable lending proposition -- that satisfy his them. How can | :54:26. | :54:32. | |
we be sure you will not lose their money? You can never be sure, of | :54:32. | :54:39. | |
course. When a vet any bank lens, the state needs to take actions to | :54:39. | :54:47. | |
protect the taxpayer -- went any bank lents. But we thought we | :54:47. | :54:52. | |
should have some influence in what the banks do. From my experience in | :54:52. | :54:57. | |
south London, it is no different to anywhere else in the country, that | :54:57. | :55:01. | |
small businesses that have a good record struggle to get the lending | :55:01. | :55:07. | |
they need. Most people in Britain do not work for big businesses. We | :55:07. | :55:12. | |
need to make sure that sector continues to grow. It has already | :55:12. | :55:18. | |
created 900,000 jobs since the recession began. Jobs are going | :55:18. | :55:23. | |
down obviously in the public sector. We have now got the Vince Cable | :55:23. | :55:29. | |
Bank but we will not have it for 18 months. We have got the green bank. | :55:29. | :55:34. | |
How much has that loaned to people so far? I don't know the answer to | :55:34. | :55:38. | |
that question, perhaps I should. The answer is nothing because it is | :55:38. | :55:43. | |
only now up and running. How much has the "big society" bank loaned | :55:43. | :55:53. | |
:55:53. | :55:53. | ||
to people? Again, this is like a quiz programme, Andre's. -- and | :55:53. | :56:00. | |
drugs. The Yuki creating banks that don't do anything! -- Andrew. You | :56:00. | :56:05. | |
keep creating banks that don't do anything. The "big society" was | :56:05. | :56:09. | |
about volunteering and the charitable sector. I assumed to be | :56:09. | :56:14. | |
Greenbank had started to lend but we only just passed the legislation. | :56:14. | :56:18. | |
The whole idea is to make sure places like the north-east get the | :56:18. | :56:22. | |
support for the renewable energy industry, we make sure got a blog | :56:22. | :56:31. | |
we know what it is meant to do. The answer is, we are a committee... | :56:31. | :56:35. | |
The plan is to make sure there is Public Investment without | :56:35. | :56:42. | |
penalising the taxpayers to stimulate the economy. There will | :56:42. | :56:46. | |
be the ability for people to use their pension pots to help the | :56:46. | :56:49. | |
children and grandchildren to have the Investment and security to get | :56:49. | :56:55. | |
on the housing ladder. Vince Cable says he wants the bank to | :56:55. | :57:00. | |
concentrate on lending money for people to make things. Can I give | :57:00. | :57:04. | |
you a brief history of this? British Leyland, British | :57:04. | :57:10. | |
shipbuilding, Phoenix. These were great successes, weren't they! | :57:10. | :57:15. | |
remember those, as you do, but you also know the great debate last | :57:15. | :57:20. | |
year was why we did not support our companies to get contracts for the | :57:20. | :57:24. | |
railway industry's when it is self evident that other countries within | :57:24. | :57:31. | |
the EU were able to do that. We have a more robust attitude on this. | :57:31. | :57:35. | |
You are not allowed to unfairly state-subsidised to distort | :57:35. | :57:42. | |
competition but you are allowed to persist if you play by the rules. | :57:42. | :57:46. | |
We need to make sure that wherever possible we support companies, not | :57:46. | :57:50. | |
that are going down the plughole, but those industries, like the | :57:50. | :57:59. | |
motor industry and the aerospace industry, with a very good record. | :57:59. | :58:04. | |
We have run out of time, thank you of every match. The answer to the | :58:04. | :58:12. | |
quiz? I assume there is none Dublin on. | :58:12. | :58:17. | |
It has been cruelly exposed by the newspapers -- there is none going | :58:17. | :58:24. |