Conference Special Daily Politics


Conference Special

Andrew Neil with all the latest political interviews and debate including live coverage of Ed Balls' speech at the Labour Party Conference.


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Transcript


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Morning. Welcome to this two-hour conference special. Has Ed Miliband

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got it in him to kick-start the economy? The Shadow Chancellor

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thinks he has. No surprise there. As if to underline that, he's been

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showing off this morning his football prowess in a match. He's

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only found the back of the net, but found a way to spend an extra �3

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billion or so on affordable new homes. Mr Balls addresses

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Conference just after midday. We will take his speech live and

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uninterrupted. You may have heard Ed the geek, now meet Ed the human.

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He's like you and me - even went to a comprehensive. Can ordinary Ed

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carry Labour to victory in the next election? It has been dominated by

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foreign policy so far. Would Labour support a referendum on Europe?

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Here we go, here's a former minister. He should know. I've got

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to answer a phone call. Boring! Boring! Was he talking about us?

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All that in the next two, yes, two hours this morning. Two for the

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price of one! Don't you dare complain about the license fee to

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me! With us for the duration Graeme Leach from the Institute of

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Directors and Duncan Weldon, chief executive of the TUC. Two chiefs!

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Welcome to you two. In a moment we will head up to Manchester to check

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out the mood at the Labour conference. Let's hope it's not as

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wet up there as it is down here. First this morning, let's talk

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about a whole host of Government measures which come into force

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today. The national minimum wage rises from today by a whole 11p.

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Don't spend it all at once. There'll be VAT on alterations to

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listed buildings and on hairdressers' chairs. And on some

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hot food snacks which led to the great pasty tax backlash. Remember

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that? I do! Another one to do with pensions.

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People who own small businesses now will be signed on - they may opt-

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out at a later stage. Is this something we should welcome?

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should reverse decades of falling pension provision. It is something

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we, in the TUC, will be welcoming. Unlike the CBI, you have a lot of

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businesses and small and medium- sized businesses, are they worried

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about the bureaucracy or the cost? They'll have to contribute to this,

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won't they? They are worried about mission creep here. What starts out

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as a low employer contribution will escalate over time. Even with a

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full whack of contributions now it is still not enough to give you a

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pension you need in retirement. much at the moment, to begin with,

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how much will employees put in and employers put in? At the moment 3%

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for the employer. That goes up over time as well. To how much? 8%.

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it a combined 8%? That's right. used to have some of the best

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private pension provision in the world. That has gone down the swany.

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Isn't this an attempt to rebuilt it over time? When it is an attempt to

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rebuild a pension system which is a decadeal shift. It will not move in

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the next two years. You have to start somewhere though, don't you?

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There is a problem that at the end of the day that employees putting

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their money in may actually in many instances be better off staying on

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the outside. We are quite concerned on a range ofishs here. At the

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moment you are saying it is all right. If you are in your mid-

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twentys or early 30s, you will now see a chunk come out of your income.

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Do you think some people will say, I want the money to spend now?

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would encourage people to go into the system. The earlier you start

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saving, the less you have to save as a percentage of your income. We

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have some concerns as well that already some employers are trying

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to put extra costs into the schemes, they are saying complying with

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autoenrolment means consultants. We don't want any back-sliding. At the

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moment the Government has set out the contributions and that is clear.

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Why do you need a consultant? key thing is not so much back-

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sliding by the employer, it is also by the employee. Where we only have

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1.5% earnings growth, where it will be more pension contribution....

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That was the input of my question to the chief economist of the TUC.

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It is easy. As the employer, you have to put in X per cent into the

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pension and the employee gets Y per cent deducted to go into the

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pension pot. Even I can work that out! There are a lot of

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bureaucratic issues. Companies are worried about that. A lot are not

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aware, on the small firm side, that this is coming in. On to the

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important issue. What kind of pasty is going to be taxed and what

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isn't? If you buy a pasty now, it is fine, you can put it into a

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microwave. I am not sure the Chancellor can tell us. Chickens

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today will be up 20%. I stocked up yesterday. If you brought them

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yesterday you wouldn't have to pai. You can see the hot chicken market

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falling out! To Fleet Street, where two of the

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finest were waiting to speak to us. We have Jackie Ashley from the

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Guardian and parsz Parris from the Times. What -- Matthew Parris from

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the Times. What a sight! There was this head of Come puss, who said

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over the weekend, he had never seen a more lazy, less dra maltic --

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dramatic build-up to a Conference. He's wanting to make a name for

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himself. We don't hear you very well. We heard something about hot

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chickens some time ago. We wish you were here. In fact, you should have

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come here. Matthew, what is the mood of the conference? Well, they

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are not on fire. That's perfectly fire. They are not on fire. On the

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other hand, I think the mood is fairly steady. Last year, there was

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a lot of murmuring about Ed Miliband's leadership. I think that

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murmuring has gone away. They are in a muted, subdued mood. There are

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no rebellions, no mutinys. Everybody is looking forward to

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hearing Ed Balls later this morning. All this money that nobody knew

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anything about - very good news! The speech is the highlight of the

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day. The papers this morning and the blogs, they are full of already

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what he's going to say. Now every major leader now does this. Do you

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think it is wise that they tell us what they are going to say before

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they say it? Not really. It is a tradition which has gone on for

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years now. They have the briefing about 3pm or 4pm the evening before

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and the news paper journalists write it up. Why do we bother to

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list on the the speech? Maybe one day they'll do it differently. I

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don't think he will say much more about what he would do if he were

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Chancellor after the next election. I think it is sensible. It is too

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early to do that. By the time he makes the speech, the Tories will

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have their rebuttal in. It's a curious business this

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preannouncement. We were just wondering on the Times whether bals

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ball bals has discovered that -- Ed Balls has discovered that and he

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has sneaked in first. It is possible. The whole license thing

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is tied up in a legal mess at the moment. Mr McCluskey, the biggest

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union baron in the country, saying he wants a purge of Blairites. Mr

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Miliband yesterday saying he's wrong, "I'm not going to do that."

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Are the union militants n the end, are they helpful to Mr Miliband, or

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is there a problem coming down the pike? I think the unions are being

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very unhelpful. Mr McCluskey is. I don't think there's this Great War

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starting up in the party that some people are trying to characterise

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it as well. There were the Blairite people last night and they were

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supportive of Ed, all saying the right things T unions are making

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the rumbling noises in the background, but are not that

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influential any more. They are not that influential any more. They may

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pay the bills, but not that influential. Len McCluskey said his

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party would stop funding Members of Parliament who did not toe the line.

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The put down on the Ma'arra programme was remarkably sharp.

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Maybe -- on the Marr programme was remarkable sharp. Maybe he has done

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him a favour by showing who is in charge. All the people around Ed

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Miliband are saying this will be his best speech yet, it is a good

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one. They say this will be fantastic. We will see. Talk about

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managing expectations! I think they are doing it the wrong way around.

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They are meant to say he's mediocre, then we are all surprised. How is

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this Ed the human project going? Well, it is a work in progress,

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shall we say! It is good. He has stopped trying to be image-made.

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There was an effort to fix his nose and fix his voice. They are given

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up now and said let Ed be Ed. Before he was leader he was a

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natural, dare I say a charismatic performer. He was good with an

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audience. He needs to rediscover that old self. Recent polls only

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show 3% of the country think he is charismatic. You must be one of the

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3%. As I say, work in progress. I am not too pessimistic. Stpwh

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think very often complaining about the nose or the voice is a toe tum

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for people not knowing what the party stands for. I don't think

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there's anything wrong with Ed Miliband, the way he looks, talks,

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stands. He has stature, he has dignity. He has intelligence. He

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has to have something to say. Once he has something to say, then all

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these problems of personality and grooming will cure themselves.

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it comes to something to say, I assume we're not going to get a

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range of policies which might not be the sensible thing for Labour to

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do any way. What we are looking for, what we expect is a sense of

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direction. Is that correct? I think he is starting to sketch that out.

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He has made it clear his position on the bank - he will be tougher on

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the banks. Responsible capitalism. I think we are seeing a reform of

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the public services. We are seeing some policy ideas coming out. You

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will not get chapter and verse of things. That would be silly at this

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stage. We'll have a clearer sense by the end of the week about what

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kind of Prime Minister he would be. I very much doubt it. The big

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question Ed Miliband has to answer, it has become dull, but, what is

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the point of a Labour Government, when there is no money to spend?

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That is what he has got to show us. Maybe more 4G licenses is the

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answer! Thanks to you both. Time for our

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daily quiz. The question for today is: What does Ed Miliband say he's

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:14:04.:14:12.

done in response to text from Vince At the end of our show the guests

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will give you the correct answer, won't you?

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I know, you probably don't. Later in the week, the nation will be

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treated, as I said there, to Ed The Movie. It is a party political

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broadcast, which will attempt to banish the idea of Ed Miliband as a

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geek with a Rubik's Cube and paint him as a family man and a project

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of an ordinary London comprehensive. He denied he was having a makeover.

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Why the focus on selling the party leader rare than the policies? Well,

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his party is having no problem, according to voters. They are

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enjoying a 10-point lead over the Conservatives, according to a

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survey this week. Ten points are ten points. That would be enough to

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send Mr Miliband to Number Ten, if it translated into votes in 2015.

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The mid-term opposition, they usually fade as we get close tore

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the general election. More concerning for Labour is the fact

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that David Cameron is still seen by the public as a stronger leader.

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They also think the Prime Minister is a r more decisive, more likable.

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Has a clearer vision for Britain and has the better strategy for

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getting the country out of recession. The only areas where Mr

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Miliband has the lead is being seen Miliband has the lead is being seen

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as more in touch with ordinary people and slightly more

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trustworthy. While his personal ratings remain

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poor, the polls say he's a much more appealing figure than Ed Baps

:15:46.:15:56.
:15:56.:16:03.

or his wife, Yvette Cooper. -- Ed It is pretty much accepted by all

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commentators like me that indeed Ed Miliband will lead Labour into the

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next General Election. Well this is what Ed Miliband had to say about

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it all on the Andrew Marr programme yesterday. Ideas a matter in

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politics but I am not embarrassed about that. Let me be clear about

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this. I gave a speech last year at the Labour Party conference, it was

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controversial. I talked about predatory behaviour. I do not

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regret it. Over the last year people have said, maybe he is right

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about that. I am clear about this. I am my own person and I will do it

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my own way. In the end people respect somebody who has

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seriousness of purpose, a clarity of ideas. People will always know

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where I stand, and that is the most important test of leadership. And

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the real test of who will be next Prime Minister will be who can

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stand up and rebuild Great Britain and rebuild the economy. I think we

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can win this election. And joining me from Brighton are

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Dan Hodges, he used to work for the Labour Party and now writes for the

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Telegraph. And Andrew Harrop of the Fabian Society, that's a Think Tank

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:17:27.:17:28.

affiliated to Labour. Andrew, let me come to you first, why don't the

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voters think Mr Miliband is made of Prime Ministerial stuff? I think

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the first thing voters thing about Ed Miliband is they don't know much

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about him. It is not necessarily they dislike him, but they don't

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know what he stands for and what he would be like as a leader. The most

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important thing for him is to define himself rather than let the

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Conservatives define him in a negative light. People have said

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this week, the way to do that is set out some big signature policies

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and say how he would make Britain different from the coalition if he

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was in power. Is it the absence of policy that makes people

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circumstance about Mr Miliband, or is it what they see on the

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television screens? I think it is substance rather than style. I

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don't have by Avis, if he was a wonderful, charismatic leader,

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everybody would be putting Ed Miliband posters on the wall. It is

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a combination of the policy and a lack of policy that is feeding into

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the negative ratings. What people want to see in a leader is someone

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who is prepared to take hard and difficult decisions. That is what

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the polling is demonstrating in relation to Ed Miliband. It seems

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he is not prepared to do that. The strategy he pursued to become

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leader was to go with the grain of his party and its thinking. That

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sadly is not going with the grain of what the country is thinking. I

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have been hearing for two years, people saying, they don't know what

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Ed Miliband stands for and when they get to know him, they were

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like him. I think they do know who he is now, and the direction he is

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taking the party in, and they don't like it. Andrew? Ida -- disagree

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with that. We have been the research and the way they are

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reshaping the economy and the future of the welfare state is very

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much what Labour has been saying. Does Labour have a policy on

:19:38.:19:48.
:19:48.:19:48.

welfare reform, I think I miss that? -- missed that. You say how

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Labour Reform gels with what the British people were thinking, I'm

:19:52.:20:02.
:20:02.:20:02.

not sure what that is? There is a lot more to come. It wouldn't

:20:02.:20:09.

reverse the cuts that have been made. That his coalition policy.

:20:09.:20:14.

has been said Ed Miliband is being timid and plain to the left, but he

:20:14.:20:21.

is taking on people saying they won't be a reverse because Labour

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cannot afford it. We have heard Ed Balls will be making a big

:20:25.:20:30.

announcement on housing later. That is the sort of thing, housing, jobs

:20:30.:20:35.

for young people were Labour needs to stand out and show it is

:20:35.:20:39.

different to the coalition. But it is money he does not have. Dan

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Hodges, the party is ahead in the polls, why don't you just get

:20:46.:20:56.
:20:56.:20:57.

behind the party? Apparently if I'd shut it, Ed Balls would be -- Ed

:20:57.:21:02.

Miliband would be soaring ahead. If you look historically, and you

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pointed this out before, the Labour's leader in the polls is not

:21:07.:21:11.

high enough. It is averaging 10 points in the polls in the middle

:21:11.:21:15.

of a double-dip reception -- recession and with all of the

:21:15.:21:21.

Government's problems. It is at a time when the Lib Dems aren't 8%

:21:21.:21:26.

and UKIP of bouncing around on nine or 10%. I don't think anybody

:21:26.:21:31.

seriously believes the Lib Dems will get 9% at the next election or

:21:31.:21:40.

that UKIP will get 10%. Were the Lib Dems to shift the leader and

:21:40.:21:43.

would David Cameron to make some policy announcement, as many expect

:21:43.:21:48.

him to do in relation to Europe, will bring those UKIP people back

:21:48.:21:54.

to him. That is Ed Miliband's lead gone without anything being done of

:21:54.:21:58.

significance on either side. That is before the situation of

:21:58.:22:06.

everybody thinks everybody is on a gradual economic recovery. And that

:22:06.:22:10.

is it the Tories get their act together. And Ed Miliband and his

:22:10.:22:15.

party, as we get closer to the General Election, will come under

:22:15.:22:20.

some very vigorous scrutiny. My have not seen much from Ed Miliband

:22:20.:22:24.

that encourages me to be able to resist that scrutiny. Andrew, do

:22:24.:22:31.

you think people will buy this part of Ed Miliband to sell him as an

:22:31.:22:35.

ordinary boy from north London? He may have gone to a comprehensive,

:22:35.:22:41.

but we both know he is north London Labour aristocracy, he is not

:22:41.:22:48.

ordinary at all? We need to get over the personality politics. He

:22:48.:22:51.

has obviously been within the political world for most of his

:22:51.:22:57.

career. All of it! He does stand out from David Cameron in terms of

:22:57.:23:03.

the sort of issues he talks about, who he cares about. The one thing

:23:03.:23:07.

he does poll very well on his he is in touch with people and cares

:23:07.:23:11.

about everyone in the country and not just delete the David Cameron

:23:11.:23:16.

is linked to. I want to pick up down on what he said on the polls.

:23:16.:23:20.

Fabian has just been doing some research which challenges this myth

:23:20.:23:25.

that has gone around that Labour's lead in the polls is very soft. We

:23:25.:23:29.

look at how many people who say they are certain to vote Labour at

:23:29.:23:34.

the next election, and it is 8 million people already. He only

:23:34.:23:38.

needs 11 million to win and a majority. Some Liberal Democrats or

:23:38.:23:43.

will go back, but there are awful lot of Lib Dems who have not made

:23:43.:23:47.

up their mind. The same goes for the Conservatives. Very few

:23:47.:23:54.

Conservatives have shifted from the Tories to Labour. Actually, Ed

:23:54.:23:58.

Miliband's support, those who say they want to vote for him, is

:23:58.:24:05.

immune to then go and support David Cameron later. Do you buy that, it

:24:05.:24:11.

sounds dodgy to me? I was just going to ask, I looked at some of

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that and your research shows Ed Miliband is still 2.5 million votes

:24:15.:24:20.

short of where he was meant to be. If he has not secured those 2.5

:24:20.:24:29.

million votes in the middle of a double-dip recession, and this

:24:29.:24:36.

summer shambles which turned into an almost Ultra shambles, why is it

:24:36.:24:40.

those people who are not convinced about him now, suddenly start

:24:40.:24:46.

flocking to him? I lot of people are considering voting for Labour.

:24:46.:24:51.

I understand the considering voting Labour, we are in the middle of a

:24:51.:24:54.

double-dip recession, the Government has been in a shambles,

:24:54.:24:58.

Tories are fighting amongst themselves. If people under that

:24:58.:25:02.

background are not saying they are convinced about him, why will they

:25:02.:25:07.

be convinced in two years? A lot of them are. You just said they were

:25:07.:25:10.

not, we were talking about the people who have not made their

:25:10.:25:16.

minds of. Why if people have not made their minds up about him now,

:25:16.:25:19.

against that background, why would they make their minds up closer to

:25:19.:25:25.

the election? The state people are in his desperate. Why aren't people

:25:25.:25:29.

embracing Ed Miliband? The chances of Ed Miliband getting a majority

:25:29.:25:35.

Government are far higher than David Cameron. I am sorry to

:25:35.:25:40.

interrupt you, I was enjoying that. Dan Hodges, what is it like to be

:25:40.:25:44.

the most unpopular person at the Labour conference? It is wonderful,

:25:44.:25:51.

I love it. I embrace it, Andrew, as you know. Ben Shore and you will

:25:51.:25:57.

look after you and act as your bodyguard. I will try. -- I am sure.

:25:57.:26:07.

Thanks for joining us from Manchester. We are always being

:26:07.:26:09.

criticised about dealing in personalities. He took about the

:26:09.:26:14.

man, the woman and not the policies. But his Labour conference, they

:26:14.:26:20.

want to give us more of an idea of what Labour stands for, its policy.

:26:20.:26:25.

But equally, they are trying to do something about Mr Miliband's image.

:26:25.:26:30.

They are talking about personality? I agree with that Matthew Parris,

:26:30.:26:36.

it is not about personality, it is about policies. Ed Miliband, in the

:26:36.:26:41.

last two years we have not had much about specific, individual policies.

:26:41.:26:47.

But we have had the direction of travel, responsible capitalism last

:26:47.:26:53.

year. That agenda is resonating with people. It is important in one

:26:53.:26:57.

way, the easiest thing for Labour to do now, is we are in a double-

:26:57.:27:02.

dip recession, we need more demand in the economy, get over that and

:27:02.:27:06.

we will be fine. But Ed Miliband is saying there were problems in our

:27:06.:27:11.

economy before the crash. Too many rewards in Arbroath were going to

:27:11.:27:17.

people at the top, it was unbalanced. -- in growth. It is an

:27:17.:27:23.

interesting direction to be moving in. Policy may give Ed Miliband a

:27:23.:27:28.

different persona to the public, but as I understand it, Ed the

:27:28.:27:38.
:27:38.:27:38.

movie is not about politics, it will show him about the lad from

:27:38.:27:43.

the local comprehensive. The son of immigrants fleeing Nazi journey. It

:27:43.:27:49.

is not policy? It is not. But all the party leaders have their own

:27:49.:27:55.

connection with the general public. If you look at some of the positive

:27:55.:27:58.

measures for David Cameron at the moment, you could say before the

:27:58.:28:05.

last election, Gordon Brown had the same positive ratings against David

:28:05.:28:09.

Cameron and it did not give him the election. They have the same

:28:09.:28:14.

connection, but I would agree, it is about the economy. That is what

:28:14.:28:19.

will decide it. Actually, it helps Labour in the sense that a don't

:28:19.:28:22.

think the economy will do the Government any favours in the short

:28:22.:28:27.

term. If it was all about policies, that is what they would be

:28:27.:28:31.

concentrating on. If they had a series of policies they thought

:28:31.:28:34.

would game changes, that is what the political broadcast would be

:28:34.:28:39.

about. But it is not, it is about Ed Miliband the man, the human, not

:28:39.:28:45.

be geek? In terms of specific policies, it is not the wisest

:28:45.:28:49.

thing three years before the election. We have had some

:28:49.:28:53.

interesting things, last year at the conference we have support for

:28:53.:28:57.

a state Investment Bank, National Investment Bank, which did not get

:28:57.:29:04.

a lot of attention, but Vince Cable announced he is going to do it. It

:29:04.:29:11.

is a policy Labour were supporting, TUC were supporting. Lots of

:29:11.:29:14.

businesses supported it and now it looks as though it is making it to

:29:14.:29:21.

the statute. But a lot of people won't have much to invest so it

:29:21.:29:30.

might not even be a bank. When we talk about connection, it isn't

:29:30.:29:33.

just one party political broadcast... It is a programme, you

:29:33.:29:38.

are right. At the last election, everyone was in love with Nick

:29:38.:29:45.

Clegg, and he lost seats a week later. Personality is quite an

:29:45.:29:49.

unstable basis on which to build political appeal? If it is more fun

:29:49.:29:54.

for people like yourself to talk about personalities instead of the

:29:54.:29:58.

case for Estate Investment Bank. I'm much more at home talking about

:29:58.:30:08.
:30:08.:30:15.

Let's see what Danny Alexander had to say.

:30:15.:30:25.
:30:25.:30:25.

Stop the modern world, we want to get off. -- Douglas Alexander had

:30:25.:30:30.

to say. Stop the modern world. We want to get off. Conference,

:30:30.:30:35.

Britain exists in a modern world, in which everyone is connected to

:30:35.:30:41.

everything. A world of quite unimaginable interdependence and

:30:41.:30:45.

the fundamental flaw of the Conservatives' aprosh to foreign

:30:46.:30:50.

policy that that two -- approach to foreign policy is that two years

:30:50.:30:56.

into office they remain unreconciled to that truth. Let's

:30:56.:31:01.

take the most pressing example - of course it's Europe. Does it matter

:31:01.:31:05.

to Britain? Absolutely. Does it require fundamental reform?

:31:05.:31:09.

Certainly. Does this Conservative Government have a clue how to

:31:09.:31:14.

affect that reform in Britain's national interest? Absolutely not.

:31:14.:31:19.

Now, we all know that change is coming to Europe. That is why,

:31:19.:31:24.

under Ed Miliband's leadership, Labour will argue for reform in

:31:24.:31:31.

Europe, not exit from Europe. Why... APPLAUSE

:31:31.:31:35.

Why will we hake that case for Britain? We make that case because

:31:35.:31:42.

British jobs, British exports and yes, British influence in the wider

:31:42.:31:46.

world benefits from Britain's continued membership of the

:31:46.:31:51.

European Union. Now, of course next week, we will no doubt hear some

:31:51.:31:57.

boosts and some blusters from David Cameron about Europe, as he tries

:31:57.:32:01.

to assuage his Everested backbenchers. Let's be honest about

:32:02.:32:06.

high that is happening, it is happening because if you start with

:32:06.:32:11.

a bunch of them on your backbenchers, you end up with the

:32:11.:32:14.

fiasco of the non-veto last December, where the Conservative

:32:14.:32:18.

front bench managed to unite the whole of Europe. The only problem

:32:18.:32:22.

is they managed to unite them against the United Kingdom. So,

:32:22.:32:27.

when you hear David Cameron next week, remember this truth - the

:32:27.:32:32.

real tragedy t national tragedy is that the Conservatives have

:32:32.:32:36.

marginallised Europe's voice in Britain just when it matters most.

:32:36.:32:42.

Two years into office, Conference, that is David Cameron in a nutshell.

:32:42.:32:52.
:32:52.:32:55.

Out of touch at home, out of his -- APPLAUSE

:32:55.:33:00.

Conference, let's try and figure this out - what is the

:33:00.:33:04.

Conservative's strategy on Europe? Nothing. What is their strategy for

:33:04.:33:09.

the G20? It is a blank page. What is their strategy for the World

:33:09.:33:13.

Trade Organisation today? Nothing, it is a blank page. Even as we

:33:13.:33:18.

heard in the defence part of the debate, their defence strategy for

:33:18.:33:22.

NATO - nothing - it is a blank page. The Conservatives don't get it.

:33:22.:33:27.

They don't understand that in the modern world Britain's citizens are

:33:27.:33:32.

stronger and safer when we co- operate and collaborate with our

:33:32.:33:36.

international partners. And that blindness to the need to network in

:33:36.:33:41.

the modern world is at times damaging and at times dangerous.

:33:41.:33:45.

When David Cameron became the Prime Minister of the country in May 2010,

:33:45.:33:52.

he said this, and this is a direct quotation." Afghanistan will be my

:33:52.:33:56.

Government's number one foreign policy priority." Conference, that

:33:56.:34:00.

is as it should be, with thousands of young British men and women

:34:00.:34:07.

still in harm's way in Afghanistan they deserved nothing less. Now, we

:34:07.:34:12.

have heard again from some members of the British Armed Forces on this

:34:12.:34:18.

platform in this debate, they are quite simply the best of British

:34:18.:34:22.

and they deserve, once again, our thanks and appreciation.

:34:22.:34:30.

APPLAUSE But, conference, the young men and

:34:30.:34:36.

women in harm's way in Afghanistan deserve something more than our

:34:36.:34:41.

public applause. They deserve from the British Government a political

:34:41.:34:47.

strategy worthy of their military heroism and their military efforts.

:34:47.:34:50.

And yet, David Cameron, the self same Prime Minister, who told us in

:34:50.:34:57.

May, 2010, that Afghanistan would be his number one foreign policy

:34:57.:35:01.

priority has now not made a single speech on Afghanistan to the House

:35:01.:35:07.

of Commons in 14 months. Conference, that is shameful.

:35:07.:35:11.

That was Douglas Alexander, the shadow Foreign Minister. We will

:35:11.:35:18.

speak to the Shadow Defence Secretary in a few moments. Let's

:35:18.:35:22.

get a flavour of his speech to the Labour Conference in Manchester

:35:22.:35:27.

this morning. We face an enormous challenge. From

:35:27.:35:31.

a Tory Party that behaves like it is born to rule and a Liberal

:35:31.:35:35.

Democrats party determined not to die, we have to address some of the

:35:35.:35:38.

issues in opposition that we would have to address if we were in

:35:38.:35:43.

Government. That's why myself and the shadow defence team have been

:35:43.:35:46.

really clear about the fact we would have to make savings when it

:35:46.:35:51.

comes to defence. That is why I can announce today that the future

:35:51.:35:55.

Labour Government would subject the Ministry of Defence budget to

:35:55.:36:01.

independent expert, external review of all the decisions we take. No

:36:01.:36:06.

smoke, no mirrors, no delays on the big decisions A culture of

:36:06.:36:09.

consequence - no miss match between resources and global ambition. Ours

:36:09.:36:16.

will be a defence-economic policy, alongside a industrial strategy,

:36:16.:36:21.

that proudly celebrates the contribution of 300,000 skilled

:36:21.:36:24.

British workers and the contribution they make to the

:36:24.:36:30.

defence of our country. Now, as we debate all of this, and we discuss

:36:30.:36:36.

our own policy, we should also be clear that politics of course is

:36:36.:36:40.

about emphasiss the -- emphasising the differences between the parties

:36:40.:36:43.

but also about making a difference. While we are out of Government we

:36:43.:36:47.

are not totally out of power. That is why we have launched the

:36:47.:36:50.

campaigns to support and end discrimination against our Armed

:36:50.:36:55.

Forces. Why we are campaigning so hard to support veterans, carers

:36:55.:36:59.

and why we are campaigning to extend the Armed Forces kove

:36:59.:37:05.

vernapblt. It is why we have introduced the veterans' interview

:37:05.:37:10.

programme, you have heard of. It is trying to deal with a very real

:37:10.:37:14.

difficulty. It is simply wrong that a man or woman who served in

:37:14.:37:20.

Afghanistan, who served our nation so ferociously and so bravely, that

:37:20.:37:25.

they come back from Afghanistan to a hero's welcome, to a public

:37:25.:37:31.

parade in their town, city, and there's flag-waving, only to be

:37:32.:37:34.

sacked thereafters by their Government and told as well to take

:37:34.:37:40.

the place at the back of the queue in the local Jobcentre. I tell you,

:37:40.:37:45.

it's wrong. It's unfair, it's unjust. It should not be happening.

:37:45.:37:48.

I give you a guarantee, under the next Labour Government it will not

:37:48.:37:57.

happen. APPLAUSE

:37:57.:38:01.

That's why I can announce today that the Labour Party will be the

:38:01.:38:07.

first and only party to adopt a procedure, the principals of the

:38:07.:38:12.

Armed Forces kove ver napbt because nobody, no member -- covenant,

:38:12.:38:16.

because no member of the Armed Forces should face discrimination,

:38:16.:38:19.

in employment, housing, health or any other walk of life, including

:38:19.:38:25.

in politics and in the Labour Party. Social justice and human rights are

:38:25.:38:29.

the very reason for our existence. They are why we are Labour. For

:38:29.:38:34.

this movement now and through history, social justice has no

:38:34.:38:39.

borders, only new front years to be conquered. That's why I am

:38:39.:38:44.

delighted to announce the party which created Sure Start in Britain

:38:44.:38:49.

will also be the party which champions the case for prioritising

:38:49.:38:50.

early years development across the world.

:38:50.:39:00.
:39:00.:39:01.

APPLAUSE I have asked the founder and First

:39:01.:39:04.

Minister for Sure Start and architect of our Olympic success to

:39:04.:39:10.

lead a global campaign to ensure an integrated approach to early years

:39:10.:39:17.

is at the new post of the 2015 global framework. I am delighted

:39:17.:39:22.

that Sarah Brown, patron of the White Ribbon Alliance, who has done

:39:22.:39:28.

so much, has agreed to sum port Tessa in her new -- support Tessa

:39:28.:39:33.

in her new role. If all the evidence demonstrates investment in

:39:33.:39:37.

the earliest years makes the most difference to our children's lives,

:39:37.:39:41.

the same evidence must apply to the health, education and parenting of

:39:41.:39:49.

the poorest children in the world. Conference, as staunch defenders of

:39:49.:39:58.

development, we must be reformers. Like any department, who is not

:39:58.:40:02.

immune to resources. The greater the risks we are taking. We should

:40:02.:40:06.

be honest about that. My value for money test will be

:40:06.:40:10.

what difference is our spending making to the poorest? And whether

:40:10.:40:20.
:40:20.:40:24.

it is country bueting to an end to The last time Labour was in

:40:25.:40:29.

opposition it came up with the idea of an ethical foreign policy. It

:40:29.:40:34.

went on to commit British troops into Kosovo and Sears and of course

:40:34.:40:38.

invade Afghanistan and Iraq. It was not what most of us thought was

:40:38.:40:44.

ethical. What can Labour do to create a foreign policy for the

:40:44.:40:54.
:40:54.:40:58.

The architect of an ethical foreign policy. The advocate of the case

:40:58.:41:03.

for foreign wars. The most pressing foreign policy problem we face,

:41:03.:41:07.

therefore, is to identify the circumstances in which we should

:41:07.:41:12.

get actively involved in other people's conflicts. And its logical

:41:13.:41:16.

conclusion. New Labour foreign policy - designed in opposition,

:41:16.:41:22.

forged in the real world. New Labour turned out to be one of the

:41:22.:41:25.

most interventionalists of Governments. Its legacy can still

:41:25.:41:31.

be felt. According to one of the key players, maybe not as you would

:41:31.:41:38.

imagine. Is a continuity between Tony Blair's Chicago speech in 1999,

:41:38.:41:41.

which proceeded our Kosovo intervention and from what David

:41:41.:41:45.

Cameron is arguing for in Syria. What David Cameron has been arguing

:41:45.:41:54.

for, not least in his speech to the UN General Assembly has been

:41:54.:41:57.

liberal intervention. Putting into practise the concept of the

:41:57.:42:01.

responsibility of the international community to protect. Maybe. Iraq

:42:01.:42:04.

was the moment many people inside and outside the party broke faith

:42:05.:42:08.

with Tony Blair and new Labour, which must have a profound effect

:42:08.:42:13.

on how it designs foreign policy for the future. Labour is trying to

:42:13.:42:18.

get back to liberal intervenalism, as Tony Blair outlined in 1999.

:42:18.:42:22.

Iraq and Afghanistan have left us with a bit of a downer in terms of

:42:23.:42:26.

foreign policy and defence policy. Labour is trying to get its

:42:26.:42:32.

confidence back, saying a more ethical world is a world which will

:42:32.:42:35.

be better for British foreign policy in general. How much can a

:42:35.:42:40.

party in opposition really do about future foreign policy? The only

:42:40.:42:45.

thing you can do in opposition is make as many contacts as you can

:42:45.:42:48.

with leaders and potential leaders around the world. Opposition

:42:48.:42:51.

parties find that difficult to do, partly because it is expensive and

:42:51.:42:55.

it runs the risk of looking as if the front bench team are on junkets

:42:55.:43:00.

all over the world. There's a good point to that - it is really

:43:00.:43:03.

important to establish personal relationships. Time and time again

:43:03.:43:08.

in foreign policy it is when people know each other than they -- that

:43:08.:43:11.

they establish a rapport which becomes a positive piece of foreign

:43:11.:43:16.

policy. You should avoid labels which may come back to haunt you.

:43:16.:43:21.

understood why Robin branded his foreign policy as ethical. He was

:43:21.:43:24.

against the "arms to Iraq" scandal and so on. I would not have done

:43:24.:43:31.

knit the same way, because it has - - it was hung around Robin's neck.

:43:31.:43:36.

I quietly abandoned the label, without abandoning a sense I was

:43:36.:43:42.

acting in an ethical way. He could not predict that new Labour would

:43:42.:43:47.

oversee five conflicts. Opposition parties can design foreign policy.

:43:47.:43:52.

Ultimately events dictate it. Well the Shadow Defence Secretary, Jim

:43:52.:43:57.

Murphy, he is in Manchester. We can talk to him now. Good morning Mr

:43:57.:44:02.

Murphy. Good morning, Andrew. defence cuts would you make that

:44:02.:44:08.

are not being made at the moment? Well, we have identified billions

:44:08.:44:12.

of pounds of savings it would make. I will not put a percentage on it.

:44:12.:44:17.

We are working through that now. We will look at the process the

:44:17.:44:21.

Government should have gone through - a proper security and Defence

:44:21.:44:26.

Review. As you know, and it has been said, the Government came in

:44:26.:44:31.

with a question in mind, which is how deeply can we cut we are going

:44:31.:44:36.

through a process, which says what is Britain's role in the world?

:44:36.:44:40.

What size defence budget do you need? That is why the announcement

:44:40.:44:44.

I made at the conference today, well, it might sound technical, it

:44:44.:44:48.

is important, which is we're going to, the Labour Government at the

:44:48.:44:53.

next election, we'll have a ten- year defence budget, so over two

:44:53.:44:56.

Parliaments. There'll be real-time, expert review of the decisions we

:44:56.:45:01.

make in defence. As you know, as you watch these things closely,

:45:01.:45:06.

what happens is a Defence Secretary gets asked what happened 10-12

:45:06.:45:12.

years about his or her predecessor five times removed. We want real-

:45:12.:45:15.

times scrutiny. Some of the things which are affecting Labour and

:45:15.:45:18.

affecting the Conservatives today are not repeated. I think that is a

:45:18.:45:22.

good thing. You said you have identified billions of pounds of

:45:22.:45:32.
:45:32.:45:33.

defence cuts which could be made. We said we would bring troops back

:45:33.:45:37.

from Germany earlier if it would save money. We said we would accept

:45:37.:45:41.

some of the cuts in the Navy and some of the freeze in the

:45:41.:45:46.

allowances of the armed forces. Get rid of some of the top heavy armed

:45:47.:45:51.

forces, very top-heavy in terms of the size of the armed forces in

:45:51.:45:56.

comparison to the numbers of the numbers we need at the top in terms

:45:56.:46:01.

of senior ranks. As we go through our defence policy review process,

:46:01.:46:06.

we will keep identifying savings we would make. A lot of these are cups

:46:06.:46:16.

that the Government is making that you say you support. -- cuts. What

:46:16.:46:21.

I'm asking is, what cuts would you make in the Defence the Budget of

:46:21.:46:27.

that are not already been made? are identified one in my earlier

:46:27.:46:34.

answer. We itch one was that? will look at it in much more

:46:34.:46:38.

forensically in the amount of senior officers we have. The amount

:46:39.:46:43.

of cuts in the junior ranks across the armed forces, we have not had

:46:43.:46:49.

the same process in the senior ranks. It would be important.

:46:49.:46:54.

Things like Nimrod, we do not like the decision, we accept it, we

:46:54.:47:03.

wouldn't reverse it. It is a list. I am looking for new cuts. It was

:47:03.:47:09.

clear throughout the Labour years, and long before that the British

:47:09.:47:16.

military was top-heavy, we had more admirals than Royal Navy ships.

:47:16.:47:20.

Even if you were to put that right, and you did not in 13 years, it is

:47:20.:47:28.

peanuts, not billions. Let me have one final go, I am trying to get

:47:28.:47:33.

you to tell me what cuts in defence you would make that it would be

:47:33.:47:38.

substantive and save billions that are not already been made? We are

:47:38.:47:43.

going through that process at the moment. I know what is behind the

:47:43.:47:50.

question, and it is a fair enough approach. We will go into the

:47:50.:47:58.

election with the aid costed policy on what cuts we would make. You

:47:58.:48:03.

wouldn't expect me to announce in the middle of a second recession

:48:03.:48:07.

what the defence budget would be like in 10 years' time. It is not

:48:07.:48:13.

how a family runs its home finances and it is not how the Ministry of

:48:13.:48:18.

Defence runs its finances. A know when I am beaten. But let me see if

:48:18.:48:24.

I can get an answer on this, are you in favour of British Aerospace

:48:24.:48:31.

merging with the 80 s, are you in favour of them being the big Airbus

:48:31.:48:36.

manufacturer? A I am meeting both of the companies in Manchester and

:48:36.:48:41.

making -- meeting to trade unions. Our approach is how does it affect

:48:41.:48:49.

the UK defence sovereignty? Will we be able to manufacture a

:48:49.:48:56.

capability? But importantly, what does it mean for the workers in

:48:56.:49:02.

this country? How many redundancies would there be? It is clear as the

:49:02.:49:06.

changes in defence budgets across the world in recent years, US at

:49:06.:49:10.

the moment, Germany, France and Europe, we will have to find

:49:10.:49:15.

different ways of doing it. So this potential merger has the chance of

:49:15.:49:20.

creating an industrial giant with a very big UK footprint. So you are

:49:20.:49:26.

in favour of it? As you would expect, things have got to change.

:49:26.:49:31.

The companies themselves are coming to see me at Manchester to make

:49:31.:49:36.

their case. I hope to be the Defence Secretary, but there is

:49:36.:49:41.

another important issue, the UK has a golden share in BAe at the moment.

:49:41.:49:47.

What would it means that these two companies for the UK tax perk and

:49:47.:49:54.

that industry? -- tax payer. Staying with us Mr Murphy, I want

:49:54.:49:59.

to move on to the issue of Europe. Now there's a whispering in

:49:59.:50:02.

Westminster circles that the PM is toying with the idea of a

:50:02.:50:10.

referendum on Europe, should the Conservatives win the next election.

:50:10.:50:16.

I suggest that is what he wants his backbenchers to think. Would Labour

:50:16.:50:20.

support the idea? We sent Adam out with an awful lot of balls to find

:50:20.:50:24.

out. Let's find out what Labour Party members think of this idea

:50:24.:50:29.

about offering a referendum on the EU. I have got the balls, and there

:50:29.:50:35.

is the box. There is no point asking a question about backing out

:50:35.:50:41.

of Europe. I am a European and I am happy to be European. A Yes. Why is

:50:41.:50:49.

that? I think it is a waste of time at the moment. There are far more

:50:49.:50:54.

pressing issues we should be spending our time on. Why did you

:50:54.:50:59.

say yes? The legitimacy of the opinion has come under questioning

:50:59.:51:04.

from the right and the left. It is about time people from a new

:51:04.:51:07.

regeneration should have the opportunity to say if they should

:51:07.:51:13.

support it. It is my favourite subject. I would happily take 1000

:51:13.:51:20.

of them balls and put them in the No box. Someone has just given me

:51:20.:51:25.

this, five reasons why the EU is better for Britain. The situation

:51:25.:51:32.

at the moment it is good. It is good? In the EU? It's works for us.

:51:32.:51:38.

I understand whether people would understand the issues properly.

:51:38.:51:43.

They are not Democratic people, they vote on other reasons, whether

:51:43.:51:48.

they hate in Nick Clegg, for example. Hitler favoured

:51:48.:51:54.

referendums. This is a former minister, what does he think?

:51:54.:52:02.

have to answer the telephone. Boring. Definitely not. Why not?

:52:02.:52:06.

have one, decided to become members and that a referendum was passed

:52:07.:52:12.

with a more than two thirds majority. I wasn't even born then!

:52:12.:52:19.

But I was. Why have a referendum on EU membership and up the UN

:52:19.:52:23.

membership, the United Nations? person in the street would be

:52:23.:52:30.

saying, how come these guys in prison are getting a vote? How come

:52:30.:52:35.

they are getting human-rights when the mice had just murdered somebody.

:52:35.:52:41.

When they have done an inhuman act, why should... Because of Europe?

:52:41.:52:48.

Yes, because of Europe. Katie, D match used -- do you wear shoes to

:52:48.:52:53.

match the balls? The people like the idea of referendums, but we're

:52:53.:52:58.

having a referendum in Scotland in two years on independence. We don't

:52:58.:53:02.

want to be a country where we have referendums every five minutes, but

:53:02.:53:06.

at some point we need to have that debate. We have been celebrating

:53:06.:53:11.

the Olympic Games. We applauded all the other competitors from other

:53:11.:53:15.

countries and recognised there was good from other countries even if

:53:15.:53:20.

we didn't win everything. It is clear, the big majority voting

:53:20.:53:25.

against. The only referendum happening around here on the EU is

:53:25.:53:30.

this one. Let's go back to Jim Murphy who has

:53:31.:53:34.

been waiting patiently in Manchester. Under what

:53:35.:53:38.

circumstances, if any, would Labour give the British people a

:53:38.:53:43.

referendum on Europe? I think there will have to be a referendum on the

:53:43.:53:50.

European Union. In Scotland, we have tussled with the issue over

:53:50.:53:53.

the Scottish relationship with the United Kingdom. I think it will be

:53:53.:53:58.

settled when we have a referendum on Scotland's membership of the

:53:58.:54:03.

Union, the United Kingdom. A relationship with de you will be

:54:03.:54:07.

settled once we have a referendum on the union of Europe. It won't

:54:07.:54:13.

stop the argument. The day after the referendum and the decision,

:54:13.:54:17.

people were still argue for independence. And if the s campaign

:54:17.:54:22.

wins, the argument will continue to be fixated by Europe. It is

:54:22.:54:27.

important, but in terms of the time line, it is not for me to announce.

:54:27.:54:31.

But it is important we have that referendum. I don't think it is

:54:31.:54:35.

today, all within the next year, but it should happen. You say at

:54:35.:54:41.

some point, it should happen. Can you give us any indication at what

:54:41.:54:47.

that means? What referendum will it be? Will it be an inch out

:54:47.:54:52.

referendum? David Cameron, as you said, is toying with the idea

:54:52.:54:55.

because he has to go to this conference next week. I'm asking

:54:55.:55:02.

about you? Of course, but we're not under that sense of pressure within

:55:02.:55:08.

the party. We have a view that it is good for the United Kingdom to

:55:08.:55:13.

be engaged in the Europe. Not in the euro but engaged in Europe. In

:55:13.:55:17.

terms of the timescale, we can work through that. But it shouldn't be

:55:17.:55:21.

in the midst of a financial crisis that is affecting the globe. We

:55:21.:55:25.

need to get through this recession, get through the Euro crisis before

:55:25.:55:30.

we do that. There is big change coming to Europe, the 17 nations of

:55:30.:55:35.

the Euro themselves are going to have a closer union. At the end of

:55:35.:55:39.

that, Europe will look different. If we come through that and the

:55:39.:55:43.

financial crisis, after that the time for a referendum would be upon

:55:43.:55:50.

us. You cannot give me any idea when it would be, or whether it

:55:50.:55:59.

would be an in or out referendum. It is not a policy to me? I did not

:55:59.:56:05.

give you a proper answer, I think it should be and in or out

:56:05.:56:09.

referendum when the time comes, the same of Scotland whether they want

:56:09.:56:15.

to be part of the Union. It is a sensible way to do it. I don't have

:56:15.:56:19.

a calendar with a date circled, we will do it when the time is right,

:56:19.:56:24.

which means getting through the financial crisis and having a

:56:24.:56:30.

potter -- proper debate and referendum. If you look at, not

:56:30.:56:34.

your timescale because you have not given be one, but the debate coming

:56:34.:56:39.

up in Europe, it looks like the eurozone countries will be moving

:56:39.:56:45.

to a more federal type Europe, which I assume we want to be part.

:56:45.:56:47.

Because at night the you or the Conservatives think we should be

:56:47.:56:52.

part of Europe. Should we joined the eurozone in a federal type of

:56:52.:56:56.

Europe, but stay out of it, but stay in the European Union, under

:56:56.:57:00.

new terms, or should be get out altogether? Unlike in Scotland it

:57:00.:57:08.

seems to me you may have A3 to his question? I am not a fan of eight

:57:08.:57:12.

pick-and-mix, multiple-choice referendum. You end up with the

:57:12.:57:21.

option which may only gain 40% support. Any referendum should be

:57:21.:57:27.

set by Electoral Commission. But instinctively, I am more inclined

:57:27.:57:30.

to and in and out referendum rather than a multiple choice of voting

:57:30.:57:36.

system, that leads to a few choices. There is a Maltese be Europe

:57:36.:57:42.

already. It is already with us, we just happen not to be in the

:57:42.:57:47.

vanguard of that European politics, because we are outside the Europe -

:57:47.:57:52.

- Europe. Whenever the referendum comes, almost everyone in the

:57:52.:57:56.

Labour party, probably along with the Lib Dems, British business and

:57:56.:58:01.

unions will argue we stay part of the European Union because it is

:58:01.:58:05.

good for the economy and good for Britain. If I thought it was bad

:58:05.:58:14.

for Britain, I wouldn't want to be part of it. Mr Murphy, thanks.

:58:14.:58:19.

We are expecting Ed Balls to begin his speech about 12:10pm, and we

:58:19.:58:25.

are told the subject is rescuing the economy. The Chancellor Best

:58:25.:58:29.

Shadow Chancellor said he wouldn't reverse any coalition spending cuts

:58:29.:58:34.

at the 2015. But that wouldn't stop Ed Balls offering George Osborne

:58:34.:58:41.

advice on how to handle the economy. And now he's going to announce a

:58:41.:58:47.

housebuilding plan using the proceeds from the sale of the 4G

:58:47.:58:52.

phone licences. Does it make sense to build a housebuilding policy on

:58:52.:58:58.

a sale of Spectrum which we don't even know is going to happen yet?

:58:58.:59:04.

It makes sense to get something to move the economy pulls stop

:59:04.:59:08.

building 100,000 homes is a sensible policy. It is a short time

:59:08.:59:13.

boost to the economy. We have lost thousands of construction jobs over

:59:13.:59:18.

the last few years. He get people back in work and the economy moving.

:59:18.:59:25.

And there is a long-term effect, it is something back gets the economy

:59:25.:59:30.

moving now and give you long-term benefit. I understand the case for

:59:30.:59:37.

investing in the housing, people go back to the 1930s and say it helped,

:59:37.:59:41.

the recession then. Which was shorter than the one we are having

:59:41.:59:46.

now. But financing it with the spectrum auction which hasn't

:59:46.:59:52.

happened, and you do not know what it is going to be, which is tied up

:59:52.:59:59.

in litigation, it does not sound like the sound basis for Keynesian

:59:59.:00:07.

He wants to be able to show it is a costed policy. I think the

:00:07.:00:13.

estimates are �3 billion-�4 billion. This policy seems well costed, even

:00:13.:00:19.

using the lower estimate. This has been in litigation for four years -

:00:19.:00:26.

these 4G licences. I am suspicious that it suddenly produces 100,000

:00:26.:00:31.

homes. Why? It is a nice round number, isn't it? At the end of the

:00:31.:00:39.

day, this is peanuts. This is trying to distinguish Balls' fiscal

:00:39.:00:45.

policy from Osborne's fiscal policy. �3 billion will not impact on the

:00:45.:00:50.

economy. It could impact on the economy, couldn't it? Use it for

:00:50.:00:54.

deficit reduction if and when this money materialised. Let's use it

:00:54.:01:00.

for infrastructure, let's use it for digital infrastructure. A lot

:01:00.:01:03.

of small businesses in the construction - house building and

:01:03.:01:09.

providing the fixtures and fittingings. Wouldn't members like

:01:09.:01:14.

to see... There is land designated to build 300,000 homes. Wouldn't

:01:14.:01:20.

this get towards a third of this figure? It could do. When we are

:01:20.:01:23.

spending the Government's money or public money, the Government is

:01:23.:01:31.

spending that, we have to focus on what will boost long-term growth.

:01:31.:01:36.

Isn't housing infrastructure, when you have to build sewers, roads and

:01:36.:01:41.

ditches. We all now the key challenges we all face in the UK.

:01:41.:01:46.

That is a huge issue. We are not allocating the resources to that

:01:46.:01:51.

that we need. The 4G money, if it materialises, would be better

:01:51.:01:56.

putting in that direction. The fundamental problem with the UK

:01:56.:02:00.

construction industry - yes there is a demand problem, but there is a

:02:00.:02:04.

supply problem. We talk about people not getting on the housing

:02:05.:02:12.

ladder. The big reason is... What do you say to that? What do you say

:02:12.:02:16.

to his members? We have to step back and look at the last two years.

:02:16.:02:20.

The long-term picture of the UK economy of the last two years is of

:02:21.:02:26.

stagnation. We had a little growth - too weak. We fell back into a

:02:26.:02:30.

double-dip recession... So the picture is two years of stagnation.

:02:30.:02:34.

There is a terrible squeeze on living standards. Banks are not

:02:34.:02:40.

prepared to lend. There is what is happening in the eurozone. There is

:02:40.:02:44.

the contraction. I am not saying austerity alone is to blame for two

:02:44.:02:49.

years of stagnation, but it has contributed to it. When you have a

:02:49.:02:52.

global crisis, you have a squeeze in living standards, banks which

:02:52.:02:56.

cannot lend - that is the time the Government should be stimulating

:02:56.:03:00.

the economy, stimulating demand, rather than pulling in the wrong

:03:00.:03:05.

way. You think Ed is the solution there, I think Meryvn is the

:03:05.:03:15.
:03:15.:03:16.

solution. I think the monetary policy is a bazooka. We've had �375

:03:16.:03:21.

billion. Andrew we would have had a depression without quantitative

:03:21.:03:29.

easing. That is a lesson from the '30s. Thanks to Mr Bern bern and Mr

:03:29.:03:36.

King in London, it has not stimulated the economy. It has

:03:36.:03:41.

prevented things from being worse.... It is the stimulus bit we

:03:41.:03:44.

are arguing about! We don't have quantitative easinging to the level

:03:44.:03:50.

the blang want it. They want money -- Bank of England want it. They

:03:50.:03:57.

want money supply grow up to 6%. We are nudging 3% at the moment.

:03:57.:04:04.

prize of the Antiques Roadshow. He has just passed his Grade I piano

:04:04.:04:11.

exam. He is regarded as a bruiser and likes to bake cakes. I think he

:04:11.:04:16.

likes to bake cakes. Paul Kenny from the GMB union thinks he would

:04:16.:04:20.

give an aspirin a headache. I am not sure how that would work, but

:04:20.:04:24.

there you go. In a few moments the Shadow Chancellor will take to the

:04:24.:04:29.

floor of the Conference. The second biggest speech of the week. The

:04:29.:04:35.

other being Mr Miliband tomorrow. What is he like? We sent Adam to

:04:35.:04:42.

find out. A brilliant mind, lazy at carry yolk I can. Have you ever had

:04:42.:04:52.

one -- Kareoke. Have you ever had one of his cakes? No. People in

:04:52.:04:55.

politics have strong opinions. Speaking as I found him, when I had

:04:55.:04:59.

to work closely with him when he was Education Minister, I was

:04:59.:05:04.

Justice Minister, I found him a very, very good minister. He gets

:05:04.:05:08.

under the skin of David Cameron like nobody else. When he sits

:05:08.:05:13.

there and he's muttering and flat- lining hand signals and things like

:05:13.:05:19.

this, part of the theatre of Parliament is personality and he

:05:19.:05:23.

has a personality. This cafe is full of the rank and file. Let's

:05:23.:05:27.

find out what ordinary party members think about him. He is reg

:05:27.:05:32.

-- He has recognised we need a policy for growth and demand in the

:05:32.:05:37.

economy is critical. That is something in both respects that the

:05:37.:05:43.

coalition Government have neglected. I also saw him dancing at the

:05:43.:05:49.

Diversity night. Is he a good dancer? He S What sort of moves?

:05:49.:05:53.

Good moves. He is an excellent person. I think people are warming

:05:53.:05:58.

to him. He's very approachable and also, of course, he's got the

:05:58.:06:02.

ability to see through on detail. That is what his party think of him.

:06:02.:06:06.

What is his reputation with the press?

:06:06.:06:10.

I just think Miliband has to show that he's master of his own

:06:10.:06:14.

finances while Balls is there, it ain't possible. I quite like him. I

:06:15.:06:18.

never, ever thought I would say that. If you said that to me two or

:06:18.:06:22.

three years ago, I would have laughed in your face. He is a

:06:22.:06:26.

likable individual. He has a side to his personality, he needs to be

:06:26.:06:30.

doing something outside politics to give him a challenge. He ran the

:06:30.:06:36.

marathon. He is now learning to play the piano. Goodness knows what

:06:36.:06:44.

he has lined up next. Nick Robinson joins us live. The main bit of the

:06:44.:06:50.

speech, this 4G licence, it has been well trailed. He's had a

:06:50.:06:55.

kicking from Mr McCluskey of Unite, on public spending squeeze. Is this

:06:55.:06:59.

going to be a tougher speech than he might have thought? I don't know

:06:59.:07:03.

if it will be tougher. It is not the backdrop, in one sense, he

:07:03.:07:07.

would have wanted. If you are Ed Balls fighting the unions about

:07:07.:07:11.

being too tough on public spending, is not a bad place to be. Len

:07:11.:07:18.

McCluskey, the General Secretary of Unite, who started this con--

:07:18.:07:24.

Conference by saying he wanted to kick the Blairite birds out after

:07:24.:07:29.

the nest, he has spoken on this floor and opposed the policy of

:07:29.:07:34.

backing public pay restraint. 1% over the next two years. He said it

:07:34.:07:39.

is a false choice to trade lower pay for more jobs. Precisely what

:07:39.:07:43.

Ed Miliband and Ed Balls have said. He used a lively phase about saying,

:07:43.:07:47.

"it is time they came out of the shadows," he said. They were

:07:47.:07:53.

nervous the men from Unite. When he had a go at Ed, people might think

:07:53.:08:02.

he was going at Ed Miliband. No, we are told he meant Ed Balls, the

:08:02.:08:06.

Shadow Chancellor. Since they share the policy it adds up to the same

:08:06.:08:10.

thing. Let's hear what Len McCluskey had to say. He's the

:08:10.:08:15.

union leader of Unite. It is the biggest union in the country. He

:08:15.:08:19.

seemed to have a go at Ed Balls here and it went down very well

:08:19.:08:27.

with the faithful. No more false choices, please of jobs or wages.

:08:27.:08:35.

Low wages, paid by big companies... APPLAUSE

:08:35.:08:40.

Conference, low wages paid by big companies depress demand and jobs.

:08:40.:08:44.

We end one the taxpayers subsidising poverty pay. So I say

:08:44.:08:49.

to Ed, a public spending squeeze while the City continues to let rip

:08:49.:08:57.

is simply not acceptable. APPLAUSE

:08:57.:09:02.

Conference, asking the poorest for further sacrifices for a crisis

:09:02.:09:08.

that they did not cause is the road to political ruin and to defeat at

:09:08.:09:14.

the next general election. It is time for Labour to want -- for once

:09:14.:09:18.

and for all to turn their back on the neo-liberalism of the past,

:09:18.:09:24.

reject the siren voices, Ed, from those whose policies and philosophy

:09:24.:09:28.

have been discredited and embrace the radical alternative the country

:09:28.:09:33.

wants and which is the only way, the only way Conference, Labour

:09:33.:09:43.
:09:43.:09:47.

will return to power. I move. Well, Nick, there comes a time,

:09:47.:09:53.

even in today's well-controlled disciplined Conferences of all the

:09:53.:09:58.

parties, suddenly someone says what the party faithful are thinking,

:09:58.:10:01.

which is not what the party leadership is thinking. Did we just

:10:01.:10:05.

see an example of that? Yes, I think a lot of people are like that.

:10:05.:10:14.

It took a while to warm up. It is a rather dead Conference hall. A big

:10:14.:10:19.

hangar of a place. They there are fewer people in the hall. There's

:10:19.:10:24.

less of an atmosphere, less of an tispaigs that there'll be trouble.

:10:24.:10:27.

The motion that Len McCluskey was pushing was originally designed to

:10:28.:10:32.

be a motion that tweaked the tail of the Labour leadership by

:10:32.:10:35.

opposing calls for public sector pay restraint. In the end, through

:10:36.:10:43.

this odd bolting bits of motions from different people, it ended up

:10:43.:10:47.

noting the policy. No problem for the Labour leadership if the motion

:10:47.:10:51.

goes through. As you say, Andrew, actually from the hall to the

:10:51.:10:53.

pleasure of quite a large percentage, my guess would be and

:10:53.:10:59.

it is only a guess, it felt to me in the hall half or two-thirds of

:10:59.:11:05.

the hall were warmly applauding Mr McCluskey, did hear a call for a

:11:05.:11:09.

radical alternative rather than a pale shadow of coalition austerity.

:11:09.:11:13.

Mr McCluskey is the biggest union leader in the land, in terms of the

:11:13.:11:17.

numbers in his union. His union has given �6 million to the Labour

:11:17.:11:21.

Party. He gave an interview to the Sunday Times at the weekend beating

:11:21.:11:26.

up on the Blairites. There he was making a speech to the Labour

:11:26.:11:30.

conference and then the cut away, as he walked away, as our viewers

:11:30.:11:35.

saw there, there were empty seat after empty seat, after empty seat.

:11:35.:11:39.

They cannot turn up for the biggest bank rolling union leader in the

:11:39.:11:48.

land? No. It is because there is an understanding that the debates

:11:48.:11:51.

don't matter any more. Essentially what you are doing if you go into

:11:51.:11:55.

that hall is you are hearing a series of people lining up to

:11:55.:11:59.

compete to condemn the coalition or praise whatever idea they are in

:11:59.:12:03.

favour of. Many are seeking a career in politics. They are

:12:03.:12:07.

showing off in front of the people who might promote them. The more

:12:07.:12:11.

junior ministers are trying to make a good show in front of them and in

:12:11.:12:16.

front of journalists. There are rare moments in which you feel

:12:16.:12:23.

something is being decided. That was a rare moment, if not decided

:12:23.:12:27.

there was an actual debate taking place. Even Len McCluskey, who has

:12:27.:12:32.

been willing to cause trouble for the leadership said no, when I

:12:32.:12:40.

attack Ed, I am not attacking that Ed, I am not attacking that Ed. Ed

:12:40.:12:43.

Balls's policy, which was to say that public sector pay restraint

:12:43.:12:48.

was right now, does not tell us what he would do in office. A

:12:48.:12:53.

series of things we will hear from the speech beg the question - yes,

:12:53.:12:59.

you would spend this 4G spectrum sale, in other words when you sell

:12:59.:13:04.

off the spectrum made freebie these 4G phones, you would have raised

:13:04.:13:08.

money. Of course that would happen if Labour got into office by 2015.

:13:08.:13:13.

What does it actually really tell us about Labour's priority? All it

:13:13.:13:17.

tells us is that by instinct the Labour leadership have decided they

:13:17.:13:21.

still think it is right to say to the public that you can spend your

:13:21.:13:25.

way out of some of the economic problems. They think the coalition

:13:25.:13:29.

will soon be proved wrong in their claim that austerity is the route

:13:29.:13:33.

to getting the deficit down and therefore the route to getting

:13:33.:13:38.

growth. Mr Balls has a complicated message, because it seems his

:13:38.:13:42.

position is, yes, he's saying the deficit is too big, but in the

:13:42.:13:47.

short-term we'll make it bigger and then later on we'll make it smaller.

:13:47.:13:52.

I think instinctively that is a hard concept for people to gasp?

:13:52.:13:56.

is a hard concept, but if you put it in a different way it is easier.

:13:56.:14:03.

If you say, he will use words not dissimilar, look, if you put people

:14:03.:14:09.

out of work and they are not paying taxes, then the tax-take of the

:14:09.:14:14.

Government stkpwos down, then the - - goes down. Then you are in a

:14:14.:14:18.

spiral where it gets worse. In a sense, you and I and many other

:14:18.:14:22.

people watching, those classic economics, The View that you have

:14:22.:14:28.

to spend in bad times in order to get the economy moving again. What

:14:28.:14:31.

is striking when you look at the market research and I have talked

:14:31.:14:37.

to people on both sides and the BBC does its own market research, to

:14:37.:14:43.

see how our broadcasts are understood, the wording you use

:14:43.:14:45.

drastically changes people's response. If the Tories point out

:14:45.:14:50.

the deficit has fallen by 5% since they have fallen to office, their -

:14:50.:14:55.

- 25% since they have fallen to office, their confidence will soar.

:14:55.:14:58.

If Ed Balls points out something which is true, which is this year

:14:58.:15:03.

borrowing has gone up 20%, Labour's representation for economic

:15:03.:15:07.

competence goes up and the Tories go down. Both are part of the

:15:07.:15:10.

debate. It is a sense and illustration of the fact that the

:15:10.:15:14.

public are anxious but don't know which way to turn. There must be

:15:14.:15:18.

concern, is there not, that in the Labour high command, that at a time

:15:18.:15:22.

when there's been no economic growth since the coalition came to

:15:22.:15:26.

power, real living standards have been squeezed, worse than at any

:15:26.:15:31.

time since the 1920s, as you say, the deficit which is kind of the

:15:31.:15:35.

reason the coalition is rising again in this financial year and I

:15:35.:15:41.

could go on and on with the economic gloom, that the polls

:15:41.:15:46.

suggest that the coalition or more Cameron and Mr Ostoss still -- Mr

:15:46.:15:50.

Cameron and Mr Osborne still have more credible than Mr Miliband and

:15:50.:16:00.
:16:00.:16:01.

The country is still giving the new Government the benefit of the doubt.

:16:01.:16:06.

Of course people are still angry and frustration about what happened.

:16:06.:16:11.

The inclination of the people is to say, let's give this new lot a try.

:16:11.:16:17.

What they are banking on is when the Chancellor stands on November

:16:17.:16:23.

5th, what he does his he publishes a forecast, an independent forecast

:16:23.:16:28.

from the Office for Budget Responsibility, about whether he

:16:28.:16:33.

will meet his own rules. He has two rules, and he's likely, not

:16:33.:16:38.

definite, but likely to miss the first one and quite likely to miss

:16:38.:16:43.

the second one as well. They are hoping and believing the electorate

:16:43.:16:48.

will look at that and say, it isn't working, we must go down the route

:16:48.:16:53.

of the Labour alternative. But the Government accounting on it or not

:16:53.:16:57.

happen at all and if it is debt that is the problem, the coalition

:16:57.:17:07.
:17:07.:17:08.

is the answer. Ed Balls is now on his feet at the coalition.

:17:08.:17:12.

We all know what is supposed to happen when -- political parties

:17:12.:17:19.

lose elections, Akram may, division, the party turning in on itself and

:17:19.:17:25.

out of touch with the views of the country. Conference, two years on,

:17:25.:17:31.

in this generation we have booked the that trend.

:17:31.:17:40.

I cannot remember our party being so United, so determined to win

:17:40.:17:45.

back the trust of the people again with our economy in recession and

:17:45.:17:50.

the unfairness of this Tory lead coalition, now laid bare. Let us

:17:50.:17:55.

show we are the people to rebuild Britain, strong and fur for the

:17:55.:18:03.

future. And conference, making a case for

:18:03.:18:09.

change, setting the agenda on reform of our media, banks and

:18:10.:18:12.

responsibility in the economy from top to bottom, showing the strength

:18:12.:18:18.

of purpose and moral conviction which won him the job and get him

:18:18.:18:22.

to Downing Street. Let us pay tribute to my friend, our leader,

:18:22.:18:28.

the next Prime Minister of our country, Ed Miliband.

:18:28.:18:38.
:18:38.:18:45.

I am proud to serve in his shadow cabinet. Now, with more than 40%

:18:45.:18:49.

women, the first time that as ever happened in British politics.

:18:49.:18:59.

And what a contrast to David Cameron's cabinet. Where the men

:18:59.:19:04.

get the jobs, the women get the sack and only the chaps get the

:19:04.:19:09.

knighthoods. Let me ask you this, what does it take to get sacked

:19:09.:19:16.

from David Cameron's cabinet? Swear at a police officer, call him a

:19:16.:19:24.

pleb and you get defended to the hilt. Get caught red handed texting

:19:24.:19:27.

market sensitive information to News International and you get

:19:27.:19:32.

promoted. Flat line the economy, deliver the most shambolic budget

:19:33.:19:37.

in living memory and you stay in your post. More than that, you are

:19:37.:19:42.

allowed to stay part time. Do all of those things and David Cameron

:19:42.:19:49.

will let you keep your job. But not if you are a woman. What kind of

:19:49.:19:55.

Prime Minister thinks it is fair to sack a 54-year-old woman in his

:19:55.:20:00.

Cabinet because she is to old and then give the job to a 56-year-old

:20:00.:20:09.

man instead? Let Me Tell You, a Prime Minister

:20:09.:20:14.

who only a point five women in the first place, sacks three of them,

:20:14.:20:19.

demotes the of the two, and attacks the Labour leadership for not being

:20:19.:20:29.
:20:29.:20:36.

bought enough! Porsche! What ever did he mean. If David Cameron is

:20:36.:20:42.

the you see Ch, where does that leave George Osborne? Perhaps this

:20:42.:20:48.

is why George Osborne will never be sacked. A Prime Minister and a

:20:48.:20:54.

Chancellor going down fighting together, and this time, let's see

:20:54.:21:02.

them ride off into the sunset, but Cameron and the flat line kid.

:21:02.:21:11.

And doesn't it feel good to be back in Manchester. Or should I say to

:21:11.:21:19.

be back in Labour Manchester. Four Labour MPs, three world-class

:21:19.:21:24.

universities, two world-beating football teams, one Labour council

:21:24.:21:29.

and not a single Tory councillor in the whole city, not a single one.

:21:29.:21:39.
:21:39.:21:44.

And, let us pledge today to keep it that way. And elect the brilliance

:21:44.:21:50.

Lucy Powell as Manchester's first ever, Labour woman MP.

:21:50.:22:00.

I can think of no one better to be Manchester's first ever police and

:22:00.:22:04.

crime Commissioner and the wise and respected Tony Lloyd.

:22:04.:22:14.
:22:14.:22:16.

And conference, at the time of such tragedies for policing in this City

:22:16.:22:21.

D, our whole country remembers two brave officers who lost their lives

:22:21.:22:26.

doing their duty. We paid tribute to all those public servants up and

:22:26.:22:31.

down the country, police officers, firefighters, armed forces, who

:22:31.:22:35.

every day put their lives on the line to keep us safe.

:22:35.:22:45.
:22:45.:22:48.

And conference, as we rightly praised the success of London 2012,

:22:48.:22:54.

let's not forget it was Manchester's hosting of the 2002

:22:54.:22:57.

Commonwealth Games which showed the way and proved Britain was ready to

:22:58.:23:03.

stage the biggest international sporting events. And conference, we

:23:03.:23:07.

salute Graham Stringer and so Richard lease, and all those who

:23:07.:23:11.

made it possible. We salute those who brought the Olympics to London

:23:11.:23:15.

and made it such a success, Tony Blair, Prince William, Ken Lou

:23:16.:23:22.

Vincent, Gordon Brown, Lord Coe and too many others to mention. None of

:23:22.:23:26.

them would have been able to play their part it not for the one

:23:26.:23:31.

person who made it possible, conference please join me in

:23:31.:23:41.
:23:41.:23:57.

thanking Dame Tessa Jowell. Conference, it was Tessa's

:23:57.:24:03.

officials who told her it would be a disaster to host the 2012 Games.

:24:03.:24:07.

It would cost too much, the stadiums wouldn't be ready,

:24:07.:24:12.

Transport could not cope, she and she could have listened to those

:24:12.:24:17.

concerns, but she didn't. She persevered, we won and the rest is

:24:17.:24:20.

now part of our national history. There is a lesson we should learn

:24:20.:24:25.

from this. With wise leadership, a long-term vision and a strong

:24:25.:24:31.

partnership between Government and citizens, we can do great things.

:24:31.:24:35.

We can lead the rest of the world, we can rebuild Britain for the

:24:35.:24:41.

future. But, if you listen to the doubters, if you never take a risk,

:24:41.:24:45.

if you flinch when obstacles are in the way, you'll never get anything

:24:45.:24:51.

done. It you spend your whole time fighting short term, political

:24:51.:24:57.

battles, Dave verses Boris, Boris the verses for George, George

:24:57.:25:02.

verses of Ince, you'll never rise to the long-term needs of the

:25:02.:25:06.

country, and in the end you let people down and you lose their

:25:06.:25:11.

trust. And no where is it more obvious than in our economy. Thank

:25:11.:25:15.

goodness the Olympics has given us a short-term shot in the arm that

:25:15.:25:20.

might be enough to take us out of recession this quarter. But that is

:25:20.:25:25.

no substitute for a long-term strategy. Not when families are

:25:25.:25:29.

struggling to make it ends meet, not when fuel and food prices are

:25:30.:25:33.

going up and wages are frozen and tax read its cut. When so many

:25:33.:25:38.

young people have been unable to find work and stay on in education.

:25:38.:25:43.

Not when so many businesses are struggling to raise the finances to

:25:43.:25:48.

survive until the year end. Not when so many working people in the

:25:48.:25:50.

public and private sectors are worried about their jobs and

:25:50.:25:56.

pensions, the human cost of this Government's economic failure.

:25:56.:26:00.

Remember what Dave Cameron, George Osborne and Nick Clegg promised two

:26:00.:26:05.

years ago. Tax rises faster, deeper spending cuts are faster would

:26:05.:26:11.

secure the economy and make Britain a safe haven. That theirs was the

:26:11.:26:16.

only credible plan to deal with the deficit. And, we were all in this

:26:16.:26:25.

together. Conference, the recovery secured, we are just one of only

:26:25.:26:29.

G20 countries in recession. De long as double-dip recession since the

:26:30.:26:35.

Second World War. A credible plan to deal with our deficits, because

:26:35.:26:41.

we are in recession, the deficit is not going down, it is going up. Up

:26:41.:26:47.

by 22% so far this year. Rising borrowing not to invest in the jobs

:26:47.:26:51.

of the future, but to pay for the mounting cost of this Government's

:26:51.:26:56.

economic failure. There is nothing credible about a plan that leads to

:26:56.:27:00.

a double-dip recession, to thousands of businesses going bust,

:27:00.:27:06.

to a million young people out of work, businesses and -- billions

:27:06.:27:11.

wasted on their welfare bill. That is not credible, it is wrong.

:27:11.:27:21.
:27:21.:27:25.

And as for we are role in this together, we don't hear that line

:27:25.:27:31.

any more. -- all in this together. Not from a Chancellor who presented

:27:31.:27:36.

the most unfair and unpopular budget in a generation. It

:27:36.:27:42.

generation -- Chancellor who tried to raise taxes on pasties,

:27:42.:27:49.

churches... Who tried to raise mansion tax. It used six months'

:27:49.:27:53.

time would try to raise tax from pensioners on the same day he cuts

:27:53.:28:00.

the tax for the riches, a �3 billion tax cut giving �40,000 a

:28:00.:28:07.

year to a millionaire. �40,000 a year! Conference, what kind of

:28:07.:28:12.

Government asks pensioners to pay for a tax cut to millionaires? What

:28:12.:28:17.

kind of Government believes a low- paid women will only work harder if

:28:17.:28:21.

you take away their tax credits and make them worse off, but

:28:21.:28:25.

millionaires will only work harder if you give them a tax cut to make

:28:25.:28:35.
:28:35.:28:36.

them better off? Isn't this the truth, we know what

:28:36.:28:41.

kind of Government this is, failing on the economy, failing on the

:28:41.:28:46.

deficit and hitting the many to help the privileged few. Arrogant,

:28:46.:28:51.

complacent and out of touch. It is the same old Tory Government. That

:28:51.:28:57.

is what it is. David Cameron, George Osborne, Nick Clegg, the

:28:57.:29:02.

same old Tories, every one of them. But you know what the worst thing

:29:02.:29:06.

is? The two years they have told us all this pain will be worth it in

:29:06.:29:13.

the end. It will be short-term pain for long-term gain. What we are now

:29:13.:29:18.

seeing a short-term pain doing long-term damage in our economy.

:29:18.:29:22.

Look at the facts, over 33,000 companies gone bust since the

:29:23.:29:27.

General Election. Investment plans cancelled or averted overseas,

:29:27.:29:32.

economy is weaker, capacity lost, more prone to inflationary

:29:32.:29:38.

pressures when the recovery finally comes. Child poverty, used

:29:38.:29:41.

unemployment becoming entrenched and damaging them for the rest of

:29:41.:29:46.

their lives. Conference, if we carry on like this, divided

:29:46.:29:49.

coalition muddling through, no vision, waiting for something to

:29:49.:29:54.

turn up, the danger is that two last years become three and four,

:29:54.:29:58.

and we slipped into a lost decade of slow growth, high unemployment

:29:58.:30:03.

and stagnation. Last Investment, lost output, lost jobs, lost

:30:03.:30:09.

exports, a decade when we fail to make investments and reforms we

:30:09.:30:13.

need to make our economy stronger for the future. It does not have to

:30:13.:30:23.
:30:23.:30:27.

Last year, private investment in Germany rose by 7%. One million

:30:27.:30:32.

extra students enrolled in university in America. China is

:30:32.:30:37.

building 80,000 miles of roads a year and is now planning 70 new

:30:37.:30:45.

airports. Here in Britain, private investment, down 2%. More students,

:30:45.:30:50.

no, over 50,000 fewer and not one of the road projects David Cameron

:30:50.:30:56.

announced last year has even started in construction. When you

:30:56.:31:02.

look at this picture of stagnation and inaction, is it any wonder the

:31:02.:31:09.

deficit is now going up? We warned two years ago that drastic spending

:31:09.:31:14.

cuts and early tax rises, too far, too fast, risked choking off the

:31:14.:31:18.

economy and risked making a difficult situation worse. We

:31:18.:31:26.

warned either learn the lessons of history or repeat the mistakes of

:31:26.:31:29.

history. This is the fundamental truth. If more people are on the

:31:29.:31:33.

dole, not paying tax, you cannot get the deficit down. If businesses

:31:33.:31:38.

are going bust, not hiring new workers, you cannot get the deficit

:31:38.:31:42.

down. If the economy is not growing, you cannot get the deficit down.

:31:42.:31:49.

That is why we must act now, to kick-start the recovery, to tackle

:31:49.:31:52.

rising borrowing, to make our economy stronger. A year ago, in

:31:52.:31:57.

Liverpool, we set out five actions the Government should take then and

:31:57.:32:03.

now to boost growth - tax, bank bonuses and use the money to create

:32:03.:32:09.

jobs for 100,000 young people and 25,000 more homes. Bring forward

:32:09.:32:12.

long-term investment in our infrastructure. Reverse the

:32:13.:32:18.

damaging VAT rise. Give every small firm, taking on extra workers a

:32:18.:32:23.

one-year national insurance tax break. Cut VAT to 5% for a year on

:32:23.:32:27.

home improvements. Conference, since last year, David Cameron's

:32:27.:32:30.

Government has done next to nothing. Their economic plan is failing.

:32:30.:32:40.

They don't know what to do. Plan A, plan B, plan A plus. With this

:32:40.:32:45.

Government I don't see any plan at all. That is why it is so urgent we

:32:45.:32:51.

kick-start the economy. We must go further and we must act now. With

:32:51.:32:56.

119,000 construction jobs lost in two years, a 68% fall in the number

:32:56.:33:01.

of affordable homes being built, we need bold and urgent action now.

:33:01.:33:09.

With Hillary Benn and Jack Dromy, the Government is anticipating a

:33:09.:33:14.

wind fall of up to �4 billion from the sale of the 4G spectrum. In

:33:14.:33:19.

good times Labour used every penny of the �22 billion from the sale of

:33:19.:33:24.

the 3G licences to repay national debt. In difficult times, we

:33:24.:33:29.

urgently need to put something back into our economy. So, with this

:33:29.:33:34.

one-off windfall from, the sale of the 4G spectrum, let's cut through

:33:34.:33:38.

this Government's dither and rhetoric and actually do something.

:33:38.:33:43.

Not more talk, but action now. Let's use the money from the 4G

:33:43.:33:48.

sale and build over the next two years, 100,000 new homes,

:33:48.:33:52.

affordable homes to rent and buy, creating hundreds of thousands of

:33:52.:34:00.

jobs. Let's get our construction industry moving again.

:34:00.:34:07.

Add to that a stamp duty holiday for first-time buyers, we can

:34:07.:34:10.

deliver real help to people aspiring to get on to the property

:34:10.:34:15.

ladder. Conference, this is a clear and costed plan to kick-start the

:34:15.:34:19.

recovery and get people back to work, building the homes we need

:34:19.:34:23.

now and for the long term. Building our way out of recession and

:34:23.:34:33.
:34:33.:34:34.

rebuilding Britain for the future. APPLAUSE

:34:34.:34:40.

We also need reform, to boost long- term investment and skills. The

:34:40.:34:44.

only rise to living standards for working people. We need a modern

:34:45.:34:49.

industry policy to support long- term wealth creation, with

:34:49.:34:52.

strategic support for advanced manufacturing and service

:34:52.:34:56.

industries. We need to work and campaign together to tackle tax

:34:56.:34:59.

avoidance and bogus self-employment and prevent the race to the bottom

:34:59.:35:07.

through regional pay. We need to enforce the minimum wage.

:35:07.:35:12.

We need to help parents balance work and family life and make sure

:35:12.:35:15.

our labour market is genuinely flexible and fair for working

:35:15.:35:18.

people. Let's go further and promote the living wage too.

:35:18.:35:28.
:35:28.:35:29.

APPLAUSE We also know our banking system

:35:29.:35:32.

needs cultural change and radical reform. Reform which this

:35:32.:35:37.

Government is only interested in watering down. That is why Ed

:35:37.:35:43.

Miliband and I are clear - we do need a full and independent inquiry

:35:43.:35:48.

into the practises of the banking industry. We need radical reform to

:35:48.:35:53.

separate retail and investment banking. We need active support for

:35:53.:36:00.

mutuals and co-operatives. We need a proper investment bank - this one

:36:00.:36:07.

properly backed by the Treasury. APPLAUSE

:36:07.:36:13.

Conference, let me also say this about the hundreds of thousands of

:36:13.:36:16.

working people, earning ordinary salaries, who work hard every day

:36:16.:36:24.

behind the counters of our high street banks - they were shocked

:36:24.:36:28.

and dismayed at the gross irresponsibility and greed of a few

:36:28.:36:32.

millionaire bankers at the top, who caused such damage and gave their

:36:32.:36:37.

industry a bad name. Working people who want tougher regulation, who

:36:37.:36:41.

want banks to work for the long- term interests of our economy and

:36:41.:36:51.
:36:51.:36:52.

who do not deserve to be pilloried for their hard work and service.

:36:52.:36:59.

Conference, the financial crisis did expose deep-rooted problems in

:36:59.:37:03.

our economy. It was always going to be difficult to get the deficit

:37:03.:37:08.

down. Even if we get the economy growing again, even if we reform

:37:08.:37:12.

our banking system we will face tough choices in the years ahead.

:37:12.:37:18.

The longer this Government staggers on, with a failing economic plab, -

:37:18.:37:23.

- plan, the worse it will get. Hard times will last longer than any of

:37:23.:37:27.

us hoped. We cannot promise to put everything right straight away.

:37:27.:37:31.

Which is why however difficult this is, when we don't know what we'll

:37:31.:37:34.

inherit, we cannot make any commitments now that the Labour

:37:34.:37:40.

Government will be able to reverse spending cuts. Unlike Nick Clegg,

:37:40.:37:44.

we will not make promises we cannot keep.

:37:44.:37:53.

Of course we will make different choices. We'll do things in a

:37:53.:37:57.

fairer way. Conference, as I said to the TUC, we have to be up front

:37:57.:38:02.

with the British people, that under Labour there would have been cuts.

:38:02.:38:05.

On spending, pay and pensions, there'll be difficult decisions in

:38:05.:38:08.

the future, from which we will not flinch. Before the next election,

:38:08.:38:13.

when we know the circumstances we face, we will set out for our

:38:13.:38:17.

manifesto tough new rules to get our current budget back to balance

:38:17.:38:22.

and national debt on a downward path. Not a meaningless fiscal rule

:38:22.:38:27.

like George Osborne, a promise to balance the book in five years'

:38:27.:38:30.

time, with that period moving forward year after year. Schools

:38:30.:38:35.

will be monitored by the Office for Budget Responsibility. We will take

:38:35.:38:38.

the action required to meet them. When we sell off the Government's

:38:38.:38:45.

shares in the banks, every penny will go to the national debt. That

:38:45.:38:49.

is what we need by fiscal responsibility in the national

:38:49.:38:54.

interest. And because... APPLAUSE And because we all know there

:38:54.:38:57.

cannot be a post election spending spree, in our first year in

:38:57.:39:02.

Government we will hold a zero- based Spending Review, to look at

:39:02.:39:05.

every pound spent by Government. Looking at what the Government can

:39:05.:39:10.

and cannot afford. Boosting productivity. Building on the work

:39:10.:39:15.

that Rachel Reeves is leading, but we will do things differently to

:39:15.:39:18.

this Government. Not slashing budgets without a care in the world,

:39:18.:39:21.

damaging the economy, but also hitting women harder than men.

:39:21.:39:25.

Instead we will assess every pound of taxpayers' money, including for

:39:26.:39:30.

its impact on growth and fairness. Not opting for short-term cuts that

:39:30.:39:37.

look easy, which end up costing more in the lefrpl, like deep cuts

:39:37.:39:43.

toed a -- long-term, like deep cuts costing more. Not ducking the

:39:43.:39:49.

issues we know we have not properly faced up to yet as a country.

:39:49.:39:53.

Issues which transcend parties and Parliaments where we need a cross-

:39:53.:39:57.

party consensus. Let us get a long- term plan to support the most

:39:57.:40:01.

vulnerable in our society. Look after children and adults needing

:40:01.:40:05.

special care. -- social care.

:40:06.:40:13.

APPLAUSE Conference, this is not just about

:40:13.:40:17.

policy, it is about the kind of country we want to be and the way

:40:17.:40:22.

we do our politics. Where we faigs important long-term challenges we

:40:22.:40:27.

must -- face important long-term chal enings we must face a

:40:27.:40:31.

consensus which put politics aside and put the national interest first,

:40:31.:40:36.

just as we did a decade ago. Nowhere is such a consensus more

:40:36.:40:42.

essential than on our national infrastructure.

:40:42.:40:47.

As we approach major projects in a long-term way and build a cross-

:40:47.:40:54.

party sense of national purpose, we can deliver. And yet, it took 13

:40:54.:40:58.

years, after the opening of the Channel Tunnel to complete the

:40:58.:41:03.

high-speed train link to London. Crossrail was delayed for years and

:41:03.:41:07.

years, for decades. Why is it so often the case in our country? Yes,

:41:08.:41:11.

our cumbersome planning system. Yes, proper and legitimate concerns for

:41:11.:41:15.

the environment. Too often in the past Governments have assumed vital

:41:15.:41:19.

infravubgure can only be funded by public investment and then bulked

:41:19.:41:25.

at the bill. Above all, success sieve Governments, including our

:41:25.:41:29.

own have ducked or delayed decisions on our national

:41:29.:41:32.

infrastructure. Sometimes allowed politics to come first. Just look

:41:32.:41:37.

at this Government in the last few months. Will Boris or Dave win on

:41:37.:41:45.

Heathrow? Will Conservative MPs block high-speed rail? Will George

:41:45.:41:50.

see Zac off on renewable energy? What a ridiculous way to run a

:41:50.:41:53.

country. No wonder business is fast losing confidence in this

:41:53.:41:57.

Government's ability to make long- term decisions. But this is not

:41:57.:42:01.

just a problem with this Government. We have to be the party to break

:42:01.:42:06.

that cycle, because if we don't, if we put off major decisions for

:42:06.:42:10.

another generation, it will be our children and grandchildren who will

:42:10.:42:16.

pay the consequences. Let me give you a few examples. We must decide

:42:16.:42:20.

how and when we are going to deliver super fast broadband across

:42:20.:42:24.

the whole of the UK and avoid a two-tier Britain.

:42:24.:42:33.

APPLAUSE We must decide whether we need to

:42:33.:42:36.

replace our antiquated National Grid or risk more power cuts in the

:42:36.:42:40.

future. We must decide, as a country, on a clear plan, to invest

:42:40.:42:45.

in nuclear power, wind and tidal power and other renewables, so we

:42:45.:42:53.

can lead the world in delivering clean energy and green jobs. We

:42:53.:42:58.

must decide how we will protect our country from rising sea levels and

:42:58.:43:03.

exceptional rainfall, including whether we need to re-enforce the

:43:03.:43:06.

Thames barrier, to prevent London from flooding. We must decide,

:43:06.:43:11.

alongside decisions on rail and airport capacity, how we'll get

:43:11.:43:15.

more freight off our roads and on to railways. It will not help our

:43:15.:43:20.

grandchildren if they are all driving electric cars but they are

:43:20.:43:24.

still in gridlock on the M6 or the M25.

:43:24.:43:31.

On all these issues, if we don't start to plan now, what will we say

:43:31.:43:36.

in 30 years' time? When our children ask, why didn't you act

:43:36.:43:42.

when there was still time? That is why we need a comprehensive, long-

:43:42.:43:48.

term plan to rebuild Britain's infrastructure for the 21st century

:43:48.:43:53.

and a cross party consensus to deliver it. It is why when budgets

:43:53.:43:57.

are tight we must think innovatively about how to finance

:43:57.:44:02.

these coming projects, drawing on the private sector and pension

:44:02.:44:08.

savings. So Ed Miliband and I have asked the chair of the Olympic

:44:08.:44:15.

Delivery Authority, Sir Jon Armet, to consider how long-term

:44:15.:44:19.

infrastructure decision-making, planning, delivery and finance can

:44:19.:44:23.

be radically improved over the coming decades. I can announce

:44:23.:44:29.

today that Sir Jon has agreed to lead this work and draw up plans

:44:29.:44:31.

for a commission or process, independent of Government, which

:44:31.:44:35.

can assess and make proposals on the long-term infrastructure needs

:44:35.:44:39.

of our country over the coming decades and help build that

:44:39.:44:49.
:44:49.:44:50.

consensus. Not repeating the mistakes of the

:44:50.:44:54.

past, but learning from them. Building a consensus that crosses

:44:54.:44:58.

party lines without chopping and changing want Parliament to the

:44:58.:45:03.

next. This is what we mean by building a consensus to rebuild

:45:03.:45:08.

Britain for the future. And conference, there is another lesson

:45:09.:45:13.

we must learn from our history. Many people have said over recent

:45:13.:45:22.

weeks, this has been written's greatest ever summer. -- Britain's.

:45:22.:45:28.

But let me remind you of a greater summer still. The summer of 1945,

:45:28.:45:33.

the end of six years of war, when our nation welcomed its he wrote

:45:33.:45:37.

home from the battlefields of Asia, Europe and America and celebrated

:45:37.:45:43.

the defeat of fascism. Confidence are predecessors were elected that

:45:44.:45:48.

the year to rebuild the country ravaged by conflict. They faced

:45:48.:45:56.

even greater talent is than we face today. An economy weakened by war,

:45:56.:46:00.

and national debt double the size of ours today and they make tough

:46:00.:46:06.

and unpopular decisions to continue with rationing, to cut defence

:46:06.:46:11.

spending and to introduce prescription charges. But that the

:46:11.:46:15.

Labour Cabinet also remained focused on the long-term task ahead

:46:15.:46:19.

and they learned from history and they rejected the failed austerity

:46:19.:46:29.
:46:29.:46:29.

of the 1930s. And that meant they could put in

:46:29.:46:34.

place a long-term reforms end during achievements, vital to a

:46:35.:46:40.

country's future. The Beveridge Report, new homes that he rose, the

:46:40.:46:46.

school leaving age raised, and an NHS free to all, based on not an

:46:46.:46:52.

ability to pay, over 60 years later celebrated in our Olympics opening

:46:52.:46:56.

ceremony for the world to see. Still today the greatest health

:46:56.:47:06.
:47:06.:47:13.

service in all the world. Conference, they were very

:47:13.:47:19.

different times. But it is our task to recapture the spirit and values

:47:19.:47:24.

and sense of national purpose of that time. It just think of the

:47:24.:47:29.

people in whose footsteps we follow. Working men and women who in the

:47:29.:47:34.

years before had seen a hardship that many of us would never

:47:34.:47:39.

experience. But they are suffering did not teach them selfishness, it

:47:39.:47:44.

taught them solidarity. And that is why they never settled for second

:47:44.:47:48.

best in their battle Education's all, free health care and proper

:47:48.:47:56.

rights at work. And we owe it to them, but more

:47:56.:48:01.

than that we owe it to our children and their children to come, to

:48:01.:48:08.

learn from that example, make the tough decisions but not sacrifice

:48:08.:48:15.

their futures. Because, when our grandchildren look back at us, what

:48:15.:48:22.

will they say? Will they say we cast a generation of young people

:48:22.:48:28.

on the scrapheap of unemployment? Will they say we as a generation

:48:28.:48:32.

dismantled the NHS and made it harder to go to university? Will

:48:32.:48:38.

they say we plunge Britain into a decade of economic stagnation while

:48:38.:48:43.

other countries raced ahead? Will they say it we left Britain a less

:48:43.:48:52.

prosperous, more unequal and unfair? All, will they say even as

:48:52.:48:58.

we made tough and painful decisions, that ours was the generation that

:48:58.:49:04.

got a record number of people into apprenticeships and university?

:49:04.:49:09.

Ours was the generation that safeguarded the NHS and started the

:49:09.:49:11.

rebuilding of our national infrastructure? Ours was the

:49:11.:49:15.

generation that tackled our debt by growing and reforming our economy

:49:15.:49:19.

and making sure the banking crisis that caused it could never happen

:49:19.:49:24.

again. Ours was the generation that broke from the cycle of political

:49:24.:49:28.

short-termism and started to rebuild Britain a new in the long-

:49:29.:49:33.

term interest. Let us go forward, not flinching from tough decisions,

:49:33.:49:37.

giving our young people hope, rebuilding Britain for the future.

:49:37.:49:42.

That is a challenge, that is our mission, let us go forward and do

:49:42.:49:52.
:49:52.:49:55.

it together. Thank you. STUDIO: Ed Balls finishes his

:49:55.:50:01.

speech to the Labour Party Conference. He then moved on to his

:50:02.:50:07.

brief, the economy. He announced what is called a zero based

:50:07.:50:11.

approach to public spending. It means a root-and-branch study of

:50:11.:50:16.

all public spending before deciding what to do next. He announced new

:50:16.:50:20.

fiscal rules, although they were a bit vague and would be monitored by

:50:20.:50:29.

the Budget -- the Office for Budget Responsibility and he talked about

:50:29.:50:34.

better infrastructure delivery which it is not very controversial.

:50:34.:50:40.

He also was most keen of the need to kick-start the economy. And we

:50:40.:50:47.

got the announcement of using the proceeds from the 4G spectrum sale.

:50:47.:50:52.

And we are joined in the studio And the Economic Secretary to the

:50:52.:50:55.

Treasury, Sajid Javid, is with me now. And the Shadow Chief Secretary

:50:55.:50:58.

to the Treasury, Rachel Reeves, is waiting to speak to us from

:50:58.:51:04.

Manchester. When the deficit starts to rise again, the economy needs a

:51:04.:51:10.

kick-start? We heard more of the same, which is what I expected,

:51:10.:51:17.

more borrowing, spending and more debt. More debt than there would be

:51:17.:51:24.

otherwise. He talked about the 4G spectrum and use the proceeds, what

:51:24.:51:29.

ever there may be to try it and invest affordable housing. It also

:51:29.:51:33.

shows he is not consistent with what he says. Almost exactly this

:51:33.:51:38.

time last year, he said he would use any future proceeds from the

:51:38.:51:44.

sale of bank proceeds to pay down the debt. Now he said anyone for

:51:44.:51:47.

the Government gets he wants to spend, so therefore increase the

:51:47.:51:54.

debt. Just on the 4G, what would you do with the proceeds of 4G?

:51:54.:52:00.

don't know what the proceeds will be. This say they are three or 4

:52:00.:52:06.

billion? We will boost jobs... would you do with it? We will

:52:06.:52:10.

decide at the time. You do not know yet. The us is not about what we

:52:11.:52:14.

will do, it is analysing what he said because he wants to be the

:52:14.:52:21.

future Challen -- Chancellor. don't know exactly how much, it is

:52:21.:52:24.

stuck in litigation. I have made that point several times on this

:52:24.:52:28.

programme. If and when it comes, Labour has said they would like to

:52:28.:52:33.

spend the money on affordable housing. It is legitimate to ask

:52:33.:52:39.

you, if and when it comes what would you do? When the man comes

:52:39.:52:44.

and we know the amount and timing, we will decide then the best way to

:52:44.:52:48.

spend the money. What is more important is what Ed Balls said

:52:48.:52:53.

today. Let's look at their policy on affordable housing. During their

:52:53.:52:57.

period in Government, the number of affordable housing in terms of

:52:57.:53:02.

twirling fell by a net 200,000. The people on the waiting list went up

:53:03.:53:07.

from one million up to 1.8 million. That is their policy, and what he

:53:07.:53:11.

has announced today won't make any difference. Your policy is to cut

:53:11.:53:17.

the deficit, why is the deficit rising? It is not, it is down by a

:53:17.:53:22.

quarter. How big is the deficit in the first five months of this

:53:22.:53:26.

financial year compared to the same five months last year? If you pick

:53:26.:53:30.

a few months that are selected to illustrate your point. It you look

:53:30.:53:34.

at the time period from when we entered Government as a coalition,

:53:34.:53:38.

determined to deal with the bad inheritance, the national deficit

:53:38.:53:44.

has fallen from 156 billion to 119 billion, of the last set of

:53:44.:53:50.

accounts we have. If you take the first few months of this fiscal

:53:50.:53:54.

year and we have most of the year to go, I would rather make a

:53:54.:53:58.

comment on whether deficit is when we have proper estimates. I had

:53:58.:54:01.

taken the first five months because that is the only time I have

:54:01.:54:06.

figures for. Is it still your claim the deficit this year will be

:54:06.:54:10.

smaller than the deficit last financial year? It you have taken

:54:10.:54:14.

the deficit for the first five months this time last year, asked

:54:14.:54:18.

the same question, you would have looked at those numbers are still

:54:18.:54:22.

for the deficit wouldn't pick the Government's target. If you look at

:54:22.:54:26.

the ONS numbers published last week, the deficit is down to 119 billion

:54:26.:54:34.

the Last Post newcomer 25% lower than where it was. -- 25% lower

:54:34.:54:42.

than where it was. I use saying the deficit ending April 2013 will be

:54:42.:54:48.

smaller than a pull just ended? will have more information when it

:54:48.:54:57.

comes to the estimates for growth later in the year. The fact is, but

:54:57.:55:01.

the first five months of this year, it is rising and the city is

:55:01.:55:04.

projecting it will continue to rise and be higher than last year and

:55:04.:55:08.

the national debt is troubling. What does David Cameron mean when

:55:08.:55:14.

he says he is dealing with the debt? He means we inherited an

:55:14.:55:19.

economic inheritance there almost bankrupt this country. You heard

:55:19.:55:23.

about Ed Balls talking about a previous Labour Government, what he

:55:23.:55:28.

missed out in 1976 we have to go cap-in-hand to the IMF under a

:55:28.:55:33.

Labour Government. The first step - - step to dealing with debt is

:55:33.:55:39.

making sure you don't borrow more than you have to. That's go to

:55:39.:55:44.

Manchester. Ed Balls started his speech late, or Rachel Reeves, we

:55:44.:55:50.

are delighted to see you there. If you take the 3 billion almost of

:55:50.:55:55.

its a for new homes, obviously 100,000, that would only give you,

:55:55.:56:00.

you would have to pay �30,000 a home, which is not very much to

:56:00.:56:04.

build. How much extra with the housing associations have to borrow

:56:05.:56:12.

to get to the 100,000? We think you could raise 3 billion or a bit more

:56:12.:56:18.

through the mobile mock road Sale. We think that would be sufficient

:56:18.:56:23.

for the construction of 100,000 new homes. The housing associations

:56:23.:56:29.

would have to borrow and all, surely? These houses are for rent,

:56:29.:56:34.

so also you would bring in revenues from that as well. We think this is

:56:34.:56:38.

a conservative estimates about how much you would raise from the 4G

:56:38.:56:42.

spectrum, and we would use the money of the two years for the

:56:42.:56:46.

construction of those affordable new homes of families who

:56:46.:56:51.

desperately need them. We think that money is sufficient and it is

:56:51.:56:55.

a conservative estimate. You are saying 3 billion alone would build

:56:55.:57:01.

100,000 houses at an average price of �30,000? We think it is possible.

:57:01.:57:07.

We think it is affordable. We think we are being conservative about how

:57:07.:57:14.

much that would raise. What are you building, matchboxes? I was at a

:57:14.:57:18.

site today were 60 new family homes are being built their rent for

:57:18.:57:23.

local people in Manchester. We think that money is sufficient.

:57:23.:57:33.
:57:33.:57:34.

much did they cost each? I don't know how much, but they raise money

:57:34.:57:38.

when those houses are for rent and money will come in through that way

:57:38.:57:47.

as well. We think up to �4 billion for the sale of the 4G spectrum is

:57:47.:57:55.

a conservative estimate. The 3D licence brought in �42 million.

:57:55.:58:02.

am sorry to Russia, but we have not got much time. -- rush you. On the

:58:02.:58:07.

splitting of the banks, your leader is in favour of it, Alastair

:58:07.:58:12.

Darling has called it outdated. He was right? John because in his

:58:12.:58:17.

report said there is a ring fence between retail and investment banks.

:58:17.:58:21.

This Government is watering that down. Mervyn King at the Bank of

:58:21.:58:27.

England and many others have said that. Retail banks can sell to

:58:27.:58:32.

Riddick -- derivative products to small businesses going against what

:58:32.:58:38.

John vicars recommended. Apart from this Government who are lobbying

:58:38.:58:46.

them heavily. I am sorry to have rushed you, we have ran out of time.

:58:46.:58:50.

The quiz of course, they took Ed Miliband's phone away so he could

:58:50.:58:54.

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