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Afternoon, folks. Welcome to our Daily Politics conference special


on the Labour Party Conference in Manchester. Indeed two specials for


the price of one today. We're on air until 1pm today then back at


2pm here on BBC2 because, in just over just over two hours, Ed


Miliband makes his big annual speech to conference - this time


with the specific aim of selling Ed A local comprehensive school.


a comprehensive school like I did. And it's not all about Ed's


schooling. Labour unveil the technical Baccalaureate saying they


will invest �1 billion in what they are calling the forgotten 50%, who


don't got to university. And we ask delegates to react to calls from


the biggest union boss of all to kick Blairites out of the Labour


Party. I am writing a book about where -- wife Blairites should


never be allowed back. I am sure we can all hardly wait to read that.


Did you know that Ed Miliband went to a comprehensive? All that in the


next hour. And with us for the duration, not one but two top


opinion pollsters, Andrew Hawkins of Com Res and Stephan Shakespeare


of YouGov. Welcome to you both. A lot to talk about. And where better


to start than with the latest opinion poll to look at Ed


Miliband's popularity. The ComRes poll for theIndependent shows


Labour's lead falling from seven points last month to just three


points ahead on 38% with the Conservatives on a steady 35% and


the Lib Dems up three points to 15%. This gives Labour a far smaller


lead than the polls we mentioned on the programme yesterday.


Unfortunately, for Mr Miliband, the ComRes poll is consistent with


others in suggesting that many people doubt his leadership


credentials. Just 22% of people believed Mr Miliband would make a


good Prime Minister that compares to 39% who think Cameron makes a


good PM. And only 24% of people say they trust Mr Miliband and the


Shadow Chancellor, Ed Balls, to make the right decisions on the


economy. Isn't this quite remarkable? You had him ahead at 5%


at the weekend. You have now got him at three. I know it


shuttlecocks around a little bit. When the think of the state of the


economy, the squeeze of living standards, the deficit rising again,


the coalition at each other's throats, frankly, I am a raise --


amazed at how low the Labour lead is. We should preface with the


electoral geography means Labour would still get a workable majority.


Mid-term there. That is shocking. It is after the Lib Dem Conference.


Come 2015, we will have another situation on our hands, as in 2010,


where the coverage that the Liberal Democrat leader gets at the time


will give him a boost in the polls at the expense of Labour. It is a


straight switch we saw today from Labour to the Liberal Democrats.


Not a huge switch but it shows house of the Labour lead is. Your


poll went back up to nine. It seems like the Labour lead is struggling


to get over 10. Are we seeing a softening of the Labour position?


think we are. We're seeing a softening of loyalty across all


parties, especially at the moment with Labour. Why? People see things


going wrong and they do not think anyone has the answer. Why softer


for Labour? They are in opposition. The party is united. They have a


new young leader. They're not whipping themselves apart.


problem is that they have not found their voice. The whole thing about


pointy head and proud of it reminds me as when they were of rebranding


Duncan-Smith. That is what happens when you flounder around and you


have not until voice. Isn't it astonishing that not only due to


root out of 10 people think Ed Miliband is prime ministerial


material? -- two out of 10. Almost half of the Labour supporters think


he is not prime-ministerial come material. 42% do. That is even


Stevens. It comes down to one single issue and that is the


economy. We saw one of the latest trackers last week which shows the


economy has been the number one issue since 2007. On that, Ed


Miliband, the only person on the main parties who has lectured in


economics at Harvard, he is unable to get across his message on the


number one thing. He is also a drag on the party's ratings. That is


again apparent from today's poll, from both the economic trust


figures and there would make a good Prime Minister figures. David


Cameron pulls his party up. significant is it that all the


polls show the Conservatives more trusted than Labour on the economy?


If he cannot give him the coalition's economic strategy is in


trouble at the moment, if you've cannot be seen to be more trusted


than the coalition at the moment, Labour would be in trouble.


economy is the question of the day. The economy will be the question of


the next election. It will not be about the next election, it will be


about the economy. To not be ahead when things are really bad is bad.


If they do not find a boy soon they have missed an opportunity. -- a


buoys. You can be a toff and run the economy competently, people do


not want and incompetent leader, even if they come across as an


ordinary bloke like them. I guess we know why they're doing all this


building up - trying to build up his personality and character.


People getting to know him is the big issue of this conference. We


will find that out in a moment because we will go to the


conference. Now the big theme emerging from Labour conference


today is education. There's Ed Miliband's plan for a shake-up in


vocational courses, but there's also a big emphasis on the Labour


leader's own time at school. No, not the primary school he went to


with Boris Johnson, but the secondary school which he says


taught him to get on with people whatever their background. And just


to make sure no-one misses the point, Labour's going to show a


party political broadcast on television on Wednesday night


highlighting his school years. Here's a flavour. In the early 80s,


I was the deputy head of a local comprehensive school in the London


Borough of Camden. That is, of course, where I met Ed Bona -- Ed


Miliband. The education I got was so much more than have to pass


exams. It was about how to look after yourself, the world is a


complex place with people of all kinds and all nationalities - all


classes and races. That is the really important lesson in life.


make a journey like that from a local comprehensive school to


teaching at Harvard, you have probably got to have that knowledge.


Coming from a comprehensive like I did, may be that does give you a


different perspective when you end up somewhere like Harvard. I do not


know. He came across as a very decent bloke. A few highlights of


Labour's latest party political broadcast there, and you may just


have got the message that Ed Miliband went to a comprehensive.


If you have not come up watch it again on Wednesday. I would like to


check that! To discuss that film and the mood at Labour conference


in Manchester let's talk to Rosa Prince of the Daily Telegraph and


Rowenna Davis of the New Statesman. I am presuming you have seen this.


What did he make of it? It is very glossy and glowing - very Hollywood.


Also a bit strange. Do you really need to a head from the deputy


headmaster of Ed Miliband and his friend saying how good he was at


maths. Do we need to hear how he was a top professor at Harvard? At


one stage, Labour will accept they have got Ed Miliband, rather than


telling us all about his problems. Just get on with it and get on with


some policies and let's have something to hear from the rest of


the Labour team. That is a point of view. But Ed Miliband is trying to


do in that video is convinced the public that not all politicians are


the same. Public perception is that all politicians belong to the top


1%. He is saying, I have a story to tell. I was the son of migrants and


I went to a comprehensive school, which is very different from David


Cameron. It is interesting that most people have written him off.


Two years ago, Ed Miliband was considered impossible as Labour


leader. Bennett was inconceivable. Now it is possible, maybe even


probable. When half of Labour supporters are not convinced he


would make a Prime Minister, that Jenny has stalled if you like. Will


this help him cut through, which he has not done yet? -- journey.


year, he laid out a very philosophical vision about the


nature of the country and responsible capitalism and the


squeezed middle. That was dismissed by everyone. Now it is the


competing grand that all parties are trying to win. What he has to


do is to present those terms in concrete and practical ways which


will resound with the people of the country. How we make a difference


to them in an everyday sense? you knew him better, you would like


him off - that is the point of this speech - and the point of this


movie. That is what they're trying to say. As much as they are trying


to say, this is Ed Miliband, get to know him and like him. They are


also trying to say that David Cameron went to Eton. He is cashing


in, though he is not going to say the word, pleb in his speech I he


is highlighting the difference he feels there is between the


Conservative Cabinet and his background. I been that is a bit


dangerous. To say that most people went to comprehensive school,


aren't I great? Do we not want a bit more grown up politics? Isn't


the real problem that people do not know who he is yet? They do not


know who he is. The most famous thing you could argue it is the


fight with his brother. Exactly the stuff we need to move on a debate


ENG keep telling the story. -- exactly. He will never be the


ultimate charisma politician. It will be about whether a trust can


win out over that sense of charisma. Ed Miliband has demonstrated he has


a set of policy ideas which resonate where people are at the


moment. If you keep telling that story over and again, he started


off from a position where he was considered a write-off and now he


has a voice and that form a way of talking about him today. I suppose


there is a case to be made and Ed Miliband is trying to say he is a


man of ideas was dug talking about being a nerd, to contrast


presumably with what David Cameron is trying to say and that is he is


a shallow. I think David Cameron does have a shallow problem. I'm


not sure if the solution is to say how intelligent Ed Miliband is. You


are right to raise the problem of David Miliband. The idea he is


awkward and not a real person. As well as the tangible effects of


having a family around, I think it played really badly in the public.


People thought, I would not do that to my brother. That will continue


to be something that plagues him. To go on about how bright he is and


how smart. We had a Harvard professor on earlier in the week


who talked about all sorts of strange things. I am not sure that


is the answer. I think he needs to do a little more of David Cameron


showing the family. I despise that as a means of campaigning but it


seems to work for David Cameron. Perhaps that would rip the toxic


Pointy head is an American expression for intellectuals. The


mix in the administration used to talk about the pointy headed,


That is what it is, pointy head. Consider this conundrum. You are an


ordinary comprehensive school- educated son of a Marxist professor.


You are lucky in intellect, but not in love. He joined a dating site.


Imagine your horror when you turn up and find out that your date does


not share your views on Prix Distribution, predators, producers


or anything beginning with the letter P. Ed is happily hitched now.


But love 6th Labour types need longer -- lovesick labour market


types need worry no longer. They are being encouraged to register at


leftwingdating. It even has suggestions as to where you might


want to cook up with like minded to potential partners, like a romantic


TUC demonstration, for example. The Daily Politics is not a dating


service, in case it escaped your notice. But we could for queue up


Apology for the loss of subtitles for 82 seconds


Let's see if you can remember when To be in with a chance of winning a


Daily Politics mug, send your answer to our special e-mail


address. You can see the full terms I think Ed Miliband went to wake


comprehensive... Education, education, education. Remember that,


from Mr Blair? What about vocational training, vocational


training, vocational training? It doesn't have the same ring to it.


But it is something we are expecting to hear a bit of this


Listen carefully. It seems everybody wants a bit of the France


dans l'ecole at the moment. We have had Monsieur Gove's idea of the


English baccalaureate certificate. And now Ed le Rouge wants to reform


qualifications in England with a new Technical baccalaureate. Guess


what, this would be a gold standard as well. He will say he wants to


focus on the forgotten 50% of school-leavers who do not go to


university. His aides say that only 1% of students on NVQ courses end


up with jobs on some courses. Students who take the new Technical


baccalaureate would also have to study English and maths as a strict


condition. Details are vague, but he wants businesses to have a role


in devising the courses. He also wants to give them �1 billion of


government money to reshape apprenticeships, which teenagers


can transferring to once they have got their Technical baccalaureate.


The shadow Work and Pensions Secretary Liam Byrne joins us now


from Manchester. Good to see you. Your education spokesman has


criticised the Government for returning to a two tier system. But


if you have, as you are proposing, one set of qualifications for


academic kids and another for everybody else, that might be the


right thing to do but it is two- tier in anybody's language? No, I


don't think so. It's about making sure there are very high standards


maintained and, indeed, created, no matter what route we take. Whether


it is a vocational or academic. We have a system today that gives you


a very clear path through, if you are taking an academic route. If


you are 14 and you want to go to university, it's a pretty clear


route. GCSE, A-levels, university, in to work. The same choice is not


so clear if you are 14 and you want to go to a vocational route and


into work. It's too complicated. We need to create a very clear route


through and make sure that there are world-class qualifications


available at 18. These changes we are announcing today are big ideas.


I think they have been welcomed right across the business community.


They are big ideas, interesting ideas. But it sounds like to tears


to me, may be trying to make those equal, and they have succeeded in


Germany in doing that, but I wonder if we could in Britain? How many


kids from Eton or Harrow do you think will want to take the


Technical baccalaureate? A I'm sorry, the sound quality is very


bad. I apologise. I was saying that what he described sounded like a


two-tier system to me. You were trying to make them of equal status,


but there are still two, and only the Germans have managed to make


them of equal status. I wondered if we could do that in this country.


For example, how many kids from Eton or harrowed do you think would


be applying to do the Technical baccalaureate? I don't know enough


about the aspirations, I'm afraid, of students at Eton. A lot of


people in constituencies like mine really hunger for that high quality


vocational route. If you take Jaguar Land Rover, a big plant on


the edge of my constituency, they operate apprenticeships right now


that are harder to get into than Oxford. What they want is the


wherewithal to expand the apprenticeship they have one of


careful stop giving business a much more direct and in how those


apprenticeships are shaped, created and expanded is something they are


going to welcome. Crucially, you have got to have people applying


for those apprenticeships that have the technical skills that


businesses like Jaguar Land Rover needs. We've got to get the


curriculum right and we got to make sure that maths and English is


sustained wall of the way up to 18 as part of getting the


qualification. I understand that and I understand you are involving


business as well. You have some money available, or you say there


will be, anyway. When Mr Miliband says he wants kids not only to


aspire to Oxford and Cambridge, but two excellent technical colleges


and delete vocational institutions. Can you name one in this country? -


Of course, Britain has some of the best universities. Can he would


name an elite vocational institution? We got to give


business a much more direct say in the way that those institutions are


created. They are not going to be formed by business on their own or


buy the estate on their own. But the Government and business working


together stands a fighting chance of getting it right. As you hinted


like Germany have got this right. We know that the world is going to


become far more competitive over the next few years, as the rise of


China continues to change the environment for business. We do not


compete when we leave 1 million young people out of work, as we do


right now. I think there is one thing that it has shown, it is that


we need far more sustained effort to get young people into work.


Crucially, we need to make sure that young people are coming into a


competitive labour market with the right skills to do the job. Isn't


it indicative of the scale of the problem that you face, a problem


that has been with us since Victorian times, that whereas we


can all Niemi elite universities, you could not name an elite


vocational institution? I think part of the complexity has been


that it is a very complicated Watt for education. -- route. If you


look at technical education, you get the sense that it is too


complicated. There are different qualifications which are good for


different types of trade. We want to bring some order to that, which


is why we are saying that business needs to be intimately involved in


figuring out what are the best qualifications for different


vocational routes and different trades in different industries. I


think that is what has been missing, that effective partnership between


government and business. That is something that we have not mastered


yet. I wish you luck on that, it has been a problem since the Royal


Commission in 1868 identified the problem. We will see how you get


going in trying to put it right. I want to move quickly on to the


polling, which shows Labour's lead down to 3% in the Independent this


morning. Even half of Labour voters do not think that Ed Miliband is


prime-ministerial material. That isn't great as a backdrop to his


speech? The polls had been bouncing around for a while. The cons


distant trend as you look back is up. I think we forget rather too


easily for the election result that we secured only a couple of years


ago. We lost 1 million votes in the last election. We lost the services


of over 90 MPs. It's one of the worst results in our party's


history. What Ed Miliband has done over the last couple of years is an


incredible achievement. If you ask people, which is the party that


most relates to my values, which shares my values, Labour


overwhelmingly wins. That is a radical shift of where we were two


years ago. Two years ago, two- thirds of working people said that


Labour was out of touch or seriously out of touch with my life


and values. The White People's Party, that was a hell of an


achievement. -- for a People's Party. Ed Miliband has shifted our


party up from anywhere between 8 and 10 points. I think that's a


hell of an achievement. I had two pollsters in the studio. Don't go


away. Is he right to say that the consistent trend is an increase in


the Labour lead? Not that we have seen over the last four was six


months. It is coming under pressure. I think the real danger for Labour


is that of but one issue, the economy, there has been no


appreciable change, no shift at all interested that top team on the


Labour side over the past 18 months. To quote an old phrase, you can't


back a pig on market day. At some point, that figure has to come up


for the Labour vote to be solidified. Given the state of the


economy and the coalition, it's remarkable that people do not still


trust your party on the economy? think there is a growing sense that


the economy and the Government's economic plan has not worked out


well. A lot of people put their trust in this government at the


last election. They bought into the plan that was put on the table. Now


they are deeply dissatisfied with the way that it is turning out.


they still don't trust you. Well, look, we have still got a lot more


to do to convince people that we are the right team for the job


after 2015. What Ed has done is he has built a united team, he has set


the tempo for the political debate. People are going to look at what


specific policies we put on the table as we get closer to the


election. I think people have got a clear sense that this government's


economic plan has failed. They put us back into a double-dip recession.


The only other country in Europe in that position is Italy. What does


that mean for the debt? It means the death at the next election will


be �450 billion higher than the last election. That is not a bad


job successful start don't go away. We will see to do something about


your sound. The boss of Britain's biggest union


and Labour's biggest financial backer, Len McClusky, has called


for Blairites to be kicked out of the Labour Party. We decided to


send Adam out with his balls. No where at this conference will


you see the word new anywhere near the word Labour. So, what should


Blairites do? Should they stay or should they go? Stay. Blairites


found their way to bring his party back into an exceptional form of


progressive politics. Why should they go? We need a fresh start, we


need to go in a new direction. It didn't do us any favours, we lost


will stop is the party Blairite enough for you at the moment?


probably about the right balance, the right level of unity. I am


writing a book about why Blairites should never be allowed back.


you like to give buyers a summary? They lost the traditional values.


We looked down our traditional constituency. We had appalling


social housing policies. I never And I will put it in her.


grasped it in an incident -- in an I think the moment there is a new


Labour government, Tony Blair will be addressing fringe meetings here.


Are there any Blairites still around? You still spot 12-year-olds


wearing suits. They seem to have a think about people wearing suits.


That is not good. I am wearing a suit. I am a Blairite, so I think I


had better vote for myself to stay. Is it lonely being a Blairite at


the moment? It would never be lonely. There are so many of us.


they have secret meetings? I had better not say on camera.


Miliband is absolutely right to go back to the 1945 experience. That


is what we need to do - get back and attach to our roots - in get


the job done. I'm not worried that that does not sound very modern? --


are you not worried? I do not think They were the people who got rid of


Militant for being too left-wing. They are a party within a party and


they have to go as well. I might just swap these around. That could


be derailed few within the party. have just seen the book by Tony


Blair. Is it going well? How many copies have you sold? So far, none.


Tony, it looks like your acolytes are welcome - mostly welcome. That


was our Adam with the Daily Politics moodbox, and Liam Byrne is


still in Manchester for us. I hope you can still hear me. A little bit.


I will shout out. We just watched that film. Someone talked about


Blairites having to stay in the closet, it is too dangerous for


them about in the wide open. Do you agree with that? I do not.


Labour Party has always been brought. We draw people from all


corners of the country. There are lots of shades of political opinion.


We basically agreed on the important things. We agree our


country is stronger when the pull together to help picture that out.


When you see an injustice, you do not walk past it kite you do


something about it. Why does the Unite General Secretary want to


kick the New Labour cuckoos out of the nest? I think different people


in the party will always have arguments within the party. That is


more than an argument. Who is he talking about? I think a couple of


people and the trade union movement had been concerned about one


organisation which I helped to set up many years ago. We will always


have arguments like this within the Labour Party. That is fine.


Sometimes they are important in establishing an important principle.


Reprint together lots of people with progressive views. Long may


the Labour Party continued in that spirit. It does risky new internal


war being waged. There were a large number of people being asked,


should Blairites go? You admitted Len McCluskey and others are


probably talking about you when they say Labour cuckoos are. How


does it feel? You will forgive me for saying this argument is


slightly fabricated. There is an enormous degree of unity across the


labour movement and a great sense of purpose. There is an enormous


amount of support for the programme we set out. In many ways, I cannot


remember a time when the Labour Party was as united as it is now.


There is pride in our record, a unity in the ranks and pride and


determination to do what we need to win the next election. Interns of


aspirational agenda, do you think Tony Blair would be pledging to


increase the top rate of tax? that again. In terms of the


Blairite aspiration agenda, would you and Tony Blair be supporting


reverting back to the 50% top rate of tax? Look, at the rate of tax,


both at the top and every point up to it, has got to reflect the state


of the economy - the job that needs doing on the Budget. It needs to


reflect what is at the core of the Labour Party, which is a sense of


fairness. When there is a job to beat down, as we have ahead, when


you have to get the deficit down and bring down national debt,


Labour has been very clear. In the two get some judicious spending


cuts. Which you and Tony Blair back reverting to 50% top rate of tax?


Our position on tax is very clear. It was set out very nicely by it Ed


Balls yesterday. The state of the perks, I suspect, will be a dog's


breakfast. It is difficult for us to take snap decisions about the


right tax strategy, as we approach the next general election. That is


why Ed Balls was very clear. It will have to wait closer to the


time and be part of the zeroed they Spending Review. That is common


sense. It is sensible. -- 0 based Spending Review. That is how we


have bounce-back. That is why we will win the next election. If you


win, do you think anyone will leave you a note? I did not catch that.


Do not worry. Maybe that was deliberate. He was very good


natured in his inability to hear. What do you want to say? They had,


in Tony Blair, the most successful Labour politician ever. They have


these questions about whether they're welcome or not. It is


accurate to have this question. When you talk to Labour people,


they have them back to their factions. There is this argument


going on. It is why they are struggling to make headway in the


polls. They always talk about themselves. They talk about the


Labour movement and not about the nation. They talk about their


traditions and fairness, or comprehensives instead of the


economy. They're talking about the wrong things. Be a talking about


their own backgrounds. -- it they are talking. While it to spend time


talking about the background of Phillida when you should be talking


about the economy? -- why should you spend time talking about the


background of your leader? We are in the fight of our lives. That's


what the Shadow Scottish Secretary Margaret Curran told conference


this morning and that only Labour could prevent the breakup of the


United Kingdom and Scotland becoming independent. Labour are by


far the biggest of the unionist parties and are leading the cross-


party campaign to defeat the SNP's referendum on the question of


independence which is likely to be held in 2014. Here's more of what


Margaret Curran and Johann Lamont the leader of the Scottish Labour


Party said to conference. We cannot afford to listen to those who said


the answers to the Scottish problems is to build a wall around


ourselves. The strength to overcome the challenges of our time come


from binding together, not breaking apart. That is as true of the


challenge we face as an Asian as cities of those we face in our


families, our towns and our cities. -- as a nation. That is what


separates us from the Tories and the SNP. Whether we are talking


about improving skills come at raising living standards or


deciding how we govern ourselves, we are led by one simple truth. By


the strength of our common endeavour, we achieve more together


than we achieve alone. This is not just a slogan that is written on


our membership cards. It is a truce that is within our hearts. We


believe it, we live by it, and, if we are honoured with the confidence


of the Scottish people at the next election, we intend to govern by it.


We are in the fight of our lives was up in 2014, Scotland faces a


decision about whether or not to break up Britain. A decision would


consequences for every Scot and every person across these islands.


In the years that followed, we will have to fight again when we faced


UK and Scottish general elections. On the one side, two parties a play


the politics of division. On the other side, the Labour Party, that


sees the strength in all of us to work together and succeed. It is


wonderful to be here in Manchester and to remember this is not a


foreign country. To people -- the people of this city face the same


challenges as the people across the whole of Scotland. It is wonderful


to be proud of being part of a Labour and trade union movement


which speaks up for people across the whole of the United Kingdom. It


speaks to a truce. It speaks to a truce that politics is about what


you choose to be and what you choose to aspire to. It is not


defined by way you are born but it is defined by what you want to do


for the people of this country. The Labour and trade union movement


will always speak up for those who need their voices to be heard.


Conference, at Scottish Labour is not afraid to be honest with the


people of Scotland. Not afraid to expose Alex Salmond and his tartan


Tories, he tried to wear Arab clothing, while punishing people


they should be protecting. -- our clothing. The SNP might not have


the courage to be straight with Scottish people but we do. What


Alex Salmond is doing with the Scottish finances is the equivalent


of putting the Gas Bill in the draw. We have all done it - not opened a


bill because we fear the consequences. We stuff it away and


the reminder and but by no notice. We know that never ends well. He


hopes we are not ask the tough questions about independence and he


is desperate we do not ask the tough questions of the here and now.


He knows that every Scottish family is bearing the cost of his slogans.


We all know that his budget will go bust. He hopes that somehow he can


keep the truth from the Scottish people until after the referendum.


I will not wait until after the referendum to be honest with the


people of Scotland. We need an honest debate now about how we


protect the most abominable from the cats. Not everyone is going to


like the solutions. -- the most vulnerable from the cuts. I'll be


true to Labour values that we will not allow those who most need our


support to pay the price for populist slogans. If we are to


assure the elderly get help and support it is our duty to give them,


we will have to ensure that those who have give to the have-nots. If


we up to make sure the potential of not one of our children is lost,


that means those with plenty must share for the common good. If


Scotland stands for anything, it is community. We, in Scottish Labour,


will put that community together, to stand as one and reject the


attempts by Alex Salmond to divide our society. The Labour Party


fights for the poor and the bar honourable. The Labour Party fights


for the strong and, together, the Labour Party in every part of the


United Kingdom to rebuild our nations and rebuild our communities.


Thank you, conference. That was Johann Lamont at the party


conference. What other numbers at the moment in terms of this


referendum on independence? numbers have not really changed.


Long-term studies show that support for independence there is between


around the quarter and about 35%. - - berries. It has been remarkably


static. Nothing has really changed. The campaign has been under way for


some time. It is not heading -- edging towards the majority. It all


depends on what happens in 2014, the date of the referendum. It


depends whether it is one question, two questions, are staged process,


whatever it is, we will be sure that it will mean another five


years of the yoke of Conservative rule for freedom, sunny uplands,


self-determination. So far, the Scottish public do not seem


convinced. It will be again the economy, when to it? Johann Lamont


will try to set out the fact that Scotland, they feel, will be worse


separate from the rest of the United Kingdom and together.


will raise great fears. You cannot be be changed candidate - the


change message when everything is against you and people are


frightened. It is very hard to see any campaign, however brilliant,


overcoming an almost two to one 90 minutes before Mr Miliband takes


the stage for his speech. We are back at 2:00pm on BBC Two for the


build-up. As part of that, we are joined by Sadiq Kahn. Welcome to


the programme. I hope that you can hear me all right. Are we coming


through loud and clear? Loud and clear. We really missed you in


Manchester, we were devastated yet that you are not here in person.


Let's see if you say that after this interview. Mr Miliband... I


can buy in the earpiece, if it gets tough. I think we had that before!


Mr Miliband is claiming that because he went to a comprehensive


school, he is in touch with ordinary people. Logically, that


means that Tony Blair, Harriet Harman, Jack Straw, Ed Balls, Chuka


Umunna, Clement Attlee, they were not in touch with ordinary people,


the way that Mr Miliband is? Now, look, Ed's link with ordinary


people is not because of his education. It is because of what he


believes in, what he does now as a person. But the importance of his


education is that it defines who he is. It's his life experiences that


dictate why he is so passionate about vocational training. He


remembers his mates that were not good at doing exams, thrown on the


scrapheap. That is what motivates him. It is part of what he is. It's


relevant and important to talk about his back story. He is


claiming, and he does in his party political broadcast, that because


he has been to a comprehensive he has a special connection with


ordinary people that these public school kids, including a Labour


public school kids, don't. If it doesn't mean that, it doesn't mean


anything? Look, I know you have been to an ordinary state school, a


local comprehensive, you make mates from all sorts of different


backgrounds. You understand challenges that you do of not face.


If you come from a stable home, but your mate does not, you get empathy.


When you grow up to be a politician, you get to understand more about


your constituents, the challenges that families have around the


country. I think what it is doing in today's speech is telling the


country who he is, where his family came from, his early life, why it


is important to who he is today. But it's a bit of an insult to the


British people to try to bake out that Mr Miliband is just one of


them, an ordinary British person. You and I know he is as much as


part of the elite as Mr Cameron, just a different elite. How many


kids of his age went home after school to socialist dinner-parties


with Tony Benn and Tariq Ali? Did you? One of the criticisms that you


and others make is that the country doesn't know enough about Ed


Miliband. That is the reason why, Ed is trying to tell the country


about himself. But he's not giving us the true picture, he is giving


as a distorted picture that he is one of the boys. From his


background, his father, his dining companions, he is North London


Labour aristocracy. If you go to the sort of school that Ed went to,


many of your viewers went to, you have a different life experience to


someone at a public school. That is a fact. We're not going to


caricature or Ed based on his education. We are going to tell the


country about the importance that was to who he is. He understands


the challenges that young people face today. He understands that if


you don't get a job at 16 or 17, there is a danger you're thrown on


the scrapheap. He understands that some people are good at exams, so


they go to the best universities, nothing against that, but some


people don't. He emphasises with people who do not. That is why he


is passionate about changing the way we treat people that don't go


to good universities that want to get vocational training. If that is


the raison d'etre of the Labour Party, how come, after 30 years of


Labour government, at Mr Mellor and's comprehensive, Haverstock,


52% failed to get 5 decent GCSEs? Not good enough, and we should be


doing better. That is appalling. There were more people doing better


up at school in 2010 than 9097. But the progress that should have been


made was not made. There were people going to university in 2010


that would not in 1997. There were all people doing apprenticeships.


But you are right to criticise us for not doing enough. So we need to


learn what we did right and what we did not get right as well. That is


why we need to make up those things that we did not get right as we


should have done. Do you think emphasising that he went to a


comprehensive school, do you think that will mean that more than two


out of 10, as the polls show at the moment, will regard him as prime


ministerial? I think the wartime people spend listening to Ed, the


more they understand about him, the more they will think he was prime-


ministerial. Did you go home to dinner with Tony Benn and Tariq Ali,


as a kid? I think I would have preferred to be in my a playground,


and having supper with those guys. Maybe that does make you normal.


But it was not the experience of your leader.


I am glad you could hear us. That's for joining us. I am glad that you


are missing me. Aloft, aloft. Please come back next year. -- a


He did sound genuine, even after the interview.


Not log until the Labour leader gets to his feet. You can watch it


here. In the years since Mr Miliband last addressed the


conference we have learned about prey distribution, predators and


producers. It is like being in one of his Harvard lectures.


This time last year, few people thought Ed Miliband was on the road


to Downing Street. If you had said the words Prime Minister Ed


Miliband, many MPs, including Labour MPs, would have giggled. Few


are laughing today. The idea has been taken seriously as a


possibility and, by some, as probability. So, what has changed?


His predator and producing speech at the conference was an important


restatement of social democracy, yet was widely mocked because he


failed to adequately explain what he meant. Are you on the side of


the wealth creator or the asset strippers? The producers or the


predators? Producers trained, invest, invent, sell. Things


Britain does brilliantly. But not enough. Predators are just


interested in the fast buck, taking But, since then, he has motored. He


headed the convoy, calling for Sir Fred Goodwin to be reduced to plain


old Fred the Shred. He accelerated, by demanding that the State Bank of


Stephen Hester must not withdraw a huge bonus. There is no question


that Stephen Hester has done a decent job. But you don't just need


to do a decent job to get a �1 million bonus when everybody else


is having living standards hit. hit top speed by a demanding that


Bob Diamond of Barbara Barclays account be closed over the rate


fixing scandal. I don't believe the current leadership of Barclays can


take it to the current crisis. They have presided over a culture in


which this behaviour happened. his biggest breakthrough was from a


stroke of political luck. George Osborne's half baked pasty tax


budget, a gift for Labour, as well as for millionaires. Let's have


some tax transparency. Hands up in the Cabinet if you are going to


benefit from the income tax cut. Come on! The undermining of the


coalition's we are all in this together justification for


austerity was a windfall for Labour. The party did well in May's local


elections. They were winning councils even in the south of


England. Government shambles and big Labour poll Leeds saw a newly


confident Ed Miliband confront David Cameron at Prime Ministers


questions, bashing the MP over his links to the Murdoch empire. When


he refuses to come clean on his and the Chancellor's meetings with


Rupert Murdoch, the shadow war sleaze will hang over this


government. He also came up that a good line to deflect Tory attacks


of Labour's links to the unions during the public service pensions


rights. The difference is, unlike him, I'm not going to demonise the


dinner lady, the Clean Air, the nurse. -- cleaner. People who earn


in a week what the Chancellor pays for his annual skiing holiday.


has freshened up his top team, promoting bright new faces such as


Chuka Umunna, the shadow Business Secretary, and they shadow Treasury


brain Rachel Reeves, both untarnished by the Blair-Brown


Yet doubts continue to persist about Miliband. He likes his party


in the polls and, two and-a-half years is a long, winding, potholed


road in politics. Opponents exploit tensions between Ed Miliband and Ed


Balls. The mocking odd Ed jibes no longer sting. His job is not under


threat, as it was last year. But what would Labour do in power and


who is Ed Miliband? Quite a lot of people seem not to know. I hope


that we will get David... I hope that we will get Ed Miliband


elected as Prime Minister. This deal is far from sealed. An


unsealed deal can be reversed. Stephan Shakespeare, if you look


back at the year, we saw their clips of things like Rupert Murdoch,


Ed Miliband's response on bank as bonuses, have those things actually


helped improve his ratings, or the party ratings? Have they worked?


think they have. If you look at the monthly polling, you see his


numbers going up. They are still buyer, let's not forget. But


they're going up, month-by-month. - - they are still dire. He is doing


that, by attacking the Government. That is the money shot, as it were.


It is not by biggie himself up, it is attacking the Government. They


have seen that and they like that. He wins there, there might be


little spikes in his favour. But what Stephan Shakespeare is saying


that he needs to do more to say what Labour would do, what he would


do and what it would mean. Does that come through? It does. For


Labour to do better, it requires two things. Firstly, they have got


to be clearer about what they stand for, what they would do and, also,


how they have learned the lessons of the past. They don't just appear


in a vacuum. Though it has come to this with the baggage of what


happened in 2008 and 2010, how Labour left the coffers. The other


thing that they can do is explore it those opportunities that the


Conservatives have given them. The most significant one of the last 12


months has been the budget, which was calamitous. You saw the Tory


polls just go down. And they haven't really recovered. George


Osborne's ratings have not recovered. They did try to


capitalise. But they did not capitalise enough in terms of


sustained poll ratings? That is where I disagree with Andrew. I


don't think it is about what Labour would do instead. It's two and-a-


half years out. They've got a lot of time to build up the policy


front. They need to get the bashing of the Conservatives, over and over


again. That is what a score. People are feeling frustrated, they are


expected, in opposition, to do that. It's quite interesting. Bennett is


a case of timing. That is where the debate lies. Should it be more


conservative bashing or should it be more about themselves? But you


don't have time to answer. Say goodbye! Thanks to both of you. The


One o'clock News is starting on BBC One in a moment. Don't forget to


switch back because we will be here in an hour on BBC Two to bring you


live and uninterrupted coverage of Ed Miliband's conference speech. We


are going to get ready for that. It's only an hour. We have taken a


leaf out of Ed Balls book. He said he prepared for his speech at the


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