Browse content similar to 02/11/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics. Ken Clarke says his plans | :00:40. | :00:42. | |
for private court hearings in sensitive intelligence cases are | :00:42. | :00:48. | |
vital for national security. The former Justice Secretary will be | :00:48. | :00:53. | |
here in around five minutes time. The schools exams body for England | :00:53. | :00:56. | |
says teachers are under too much pressure to give generous marks for | :00:56. | :01:00. | |
coursework. But says the decision to raise the pass threshold for | :01:00. | :01:05. | |
this summer's English GCSEs was right. With just under two weeks to | :01:05. | :01:09. | |
go before voters in England and Wales elect 43 new police and crime | :01:09. | :01:11. | |
commissioners, we'll ask five hopeful candidates how policing | :01:11. | :01:18. | |
will change. And we are in the final straight of the US | :01:18. | :01:28. | |
:01:28. | :01:28. | ||
presidential race. Will the winner All that in the next hour. With me | :01:28. | :01:31. | |
for the whole programme today are the editor of Prospect magazine | :01:31. | :01:34. | |
Bronwen Maddox. And Kevin Maguire of the Daily Mirror. Welcome to you | :01:34. | :01:44. | |
:01:44. | :01:48. | ||
both. Thanks run much indeed for joining us. Let's start with a | :01:48. | :01:52. | |
report, we blame the examiners, exam board, and now they are | :01:52. | :01:57. | |
blaming the teachers. Yes, the OFQUAL report, some children are | :01:57. | :02:01. | |
marked down and others are marked up up because teachers are over- | :02:01. | :02:04. | |
generous and it's a complete mess because you have got to defend the | :02:04. | :02:08. | |
integrity of the exam system. If teachers are under such pressure to | :02:08. | :02:12. | |
get a good result and are marking up their own pupils, we have to | :02:12. | :02:16. | |
bring in outside examiners. I personally think, continuous | :02:16. | :02:20. | |
assessment and working through your course than a memory test at the | :02:20. | :02:26. | |
end, but it's got to be done fairly. What do you make of this? They | :02:26. | :02:31. | |
shouldn't have changed the standards between January and June. | :02:31. | :02:35. | |
It's absolutely right they are outraged but what did anybody | :02:35. | :02:41. | |
expect? I agree with you. Coursework is a better way of | :02:41. | :02:46. | |
testing knowledge. Schools are under enormous pressure to deliver | :02:46. | :02:52. | |
results and teachers will mark up to the limit. You need a much | :02:52. | :02:57. | |
clearer sense of what is being assessed. It does need sorting out | :02:57. | :03:02. | |
a but this is not the world's biggest problem. Let's have a | :03:02. | :03:07. | |
listen to the OFQUAL chief- executive. She has been talking a | :03:07. | :03:11. | |
bit more about this and the findings of this latest report. | :03:11. | :03:15. | |
They are not cheating. Let me be clear, they are not cheating and | :03:15. | :03:21. | |
they are not making up marks, not at all. They are putting in an | :03:21. | :03:24. | |
invidious position, where they have to put a mark on a piece of | :03:24. | :03:28. | |
creative writing. You and I would look at that and there is no doubt | :03:28. | :03:32. | |
we would choose a different Mark because there's not, in a sense, a | :03:32. | :03:35. | |
writer mark. The problem is, because of the pressure they are | :03:35. | :03:39. | |
under, there is a natural tendency to be as optimistic as possible | :03:39. | :03:42. | |
looking at that and give it the best possible mark, because you | :03:42. | :03:46. | |
want that for your student, of course you do. And you wanted for | :03:46. | :03:50. | |
your school, as well. If there enough teachers are moving in that | :03:51. | :03:57. | |
direction, marking up to the limit, and there is a 6% tolerance, that | :03:57. | :04:01. | |
ruins the national picture if we are not careful and we have | :04:01. | :04:08. | |
evidence of that this year, so it's a very caution retail. For us, for | :04:08. | :04:13. | |
teachers and for those who design qualifications and set the | :04:13. | :04:19. | |
accountability measures, as well. You can understand a problem that | :04:19. | :04:25. | |
teachers want to do the best by their pupils, want to try and hit | :04:25. | :04:31. | |
the right sort of scores for their own schools. She has put it | :04:31. | :04:35. | |
perfectly if rather politely. Teachers are going to give the best | :04:35. | :04:43. | |
marks they can. It helps their children and school. The problem is, | :04:43. | :04:48. | |
we need an external assessment. Kevin is quite right. The doesn't | :04:48. | :04:51. | |
this make the case for what Michael Gove is talking about, let's have a | :04:51. | :04:57. | |
less coursework and more in the final exam which is marked by | :04:57. | :05:03. | |
independent examiners? Yes, in that sense, it does, and I think that | :05:03. | :05:07. | |
looks like cheating if you're going to give your own pupils the most | :05:07. | :05:14. | |
generous marks you can have. It is optimism. The but, I sat through | :05:14. | :05:17. | |
the generation where you had those end-of-year exams force of that's | :05:17. | :05:22. | |
what you did and how you got your GCSEs and A-levels. I watched my | :05:22. | :05:26. | |
own children going through, doing coursework all the way through, and | :05:26. | :05:30. | |
they have much better understanding of the subject they are doing. Yes, | :05:30. | :05:34. | |
you can have a memory test, but it does not really test your grasp of | :05:34. | :05:39. | |
the subject. It test your ability to learn a few facts and put them | :05:39. | :05:43. | |
down in a couple of hours. This is a debate which will run and run but | :05:43. | :05:49. | |
we will leave it there. Now it is time for our daily quiz and a | :05:49. | :05:53. | |
question for today is, William Hague is confirmed the Foreign | :05:53. | :05:57. | |
Office has spent �10,000 renovating a stuffed animal kept on display in | :05:57. | :06:06. | |
the Government department. But which animal is it? A badger. | :06:06. | :06:10. | |
stag. An anaconda snake. Or a meerkat? At the end of the show | :06:10. | :06:20. | |
:06:20. | :06:20. | ||
Kevin and Bronwen will give us the correct answer. You could not make | :06:20. | :06:30. | |
:06:30. | :06:35. | ||
it up. I like the idea of the Anaconda. Almost exactly two years | :06:35. | :06:38. | |
ago, the Government paid out millions of pounds in compensation | :06:38. | :06:40. | |
to several former Guantanamo detainees who accused British | :06:40. | :06:42. | |
intelligence of colluding in their capture and rendition. Ministers | :06:42. | :06:45. | |
said they had no option but to settle because fighting the cases | :06:45. | :06:48. | |
would have risked exposing state secrets in open court. In response, | :06:48. | :06:50. | |
the then Justice Secretary, Ken Clarke, came up with controversial | :06:50. | :06:54. | |
plans to allow such cases to be heard in secret. The proposals are | :06:54. | :06:56. | |
included in the Justice and Security Bill, and are designed to | :06:56. | :06:59. | |
allow the intelligence agencies to defend themselves in court without | :06:59. | :07:01. | |
sensitive information being made public. Ken Clarke says it's a | :07:01. | :07:04. | |
golden opportunity for sensible reform and hit out at critics who | :07:04. | :07:07. | |
want to derail his plans. If the plans become law, so-called closed | :07:07. | :07:09. | |
material procedures would mean judges could consider sensitive | :07:09. | :07:12. | |
evidence in private in front of security-vetted lawyers. But | :07:12. | :07:18. | |
critics say the Bill goes against the principle of open justice. In | :07:18. | :07:21. | |
September, the Liberal Democrat conference voted against the Bill, | :07:21. | :07:23. | |
arguing that ministers would be able to cover up any potentially | :07:23. | :07:29. | |
embarrassing information. But Ken Clarke says a judge, not a | :07:29. | :07:31. | |
politician, would decide whether the information should be kept | :07:31. | :07:39. | |
secret. Mr Clarke has been speaking this morning. Let's have a quick | :07:39. | :07:46. | |
listen. In my career, I was in a lot of debate about national | :07:46. | :07:55. | |
security issues. I have always been on the liberal side of the argument. | :07:55. | :08:01. | |
So I am surprised to find myself sponsoring a Bill which critics of | :08:01. | :08:07. | |
named, my secret court Bill. I have never been naive about the role of | :08:07. | :08:12. | |
the security and intelligence agencies go through, but I want | :08:12. | :08:18. | |
them to be able to be able to defend themselves and be more | :08:18. | :08:22. | |
accountable to the courts and to Parliament. And Ken Clarke is here | :08:22. | :08:26. | |
now. Thank you for joining us having moved on of course to your | :08:26. | :08:31. | |
new role, but you're still overseeing this. Yes, I'm still a | :08:31. | :08:37. | |
minister in charge of this bill. The Lib Dem conference as voted | :08:37. | :08:40. | |
against it, Labour are not satisfied with the assurances that | :08:40. | :08:44. | |
you have given. Are you going to manage to get this Bill through | :08:44. | :08:50. | |
Parliament? I think so because I think they on the wrong side of the | :08:50. | :09:00. | |
:09:00. | :09:00. | ||
argument, saying that. They are conspiracy mongering. They think | :09:00. | :09:05. | |
there is a snag some were. We are not taking into secret session | :09:05. | :09:10. | |
anything which is public at the moment. But you cannot have spies | :09:10. | :09:14. | |
giving evidence about national intelligence in open court. | :09:14. | :09:18. | |
Sometimes the whole claim, like in Guantanamo Bay, turns on this | :09:18. | :09:24. | |
intelligence evidence. The judge will hear that but only in a closed | :09:24. | :09:27. | |
session, special advocates will challenge it on behalf of the | :09:27. | :09:32. | |
defendant, but, at the moment, you can't try these cases for for what | :09:32. | :09:37. | |
happens, the Government puts his hands up, says it can't give the | :09:37. | :09:41. | |
evidence because it's to dangers in open court and we pay millions of | :09:41. | :09:45. | |
pounds worth of compensation. I would like a judge to hear all the | :09:45. | :09:48. | |
evidence and I would be interested in the judgement of a British judge | :09:48. | :09:52. | |
to see whether he or she are poles it falls up it's a dangerous | :09:52. | :09:56. | |
precedent. How are you going to make sure that wants to establish | :09:56. | :10:06. | |
these secret courts, they won't be tampered with? The Liberty, | :10:06. | :10:10. | |
according to them, you wouldn't be able to investigate crowd control | :10:10. | :10:20. | |
:10:20. | :10:21. | ||
at Hillsborough. Or... It is Humphrey staff. The quality and | :10:21. | :10:24. | |
Human Rights Commission say they are incompatible with the common | :10:24. | :10:29. | |
law right to a fair trial. It's not an open justice of the ordinary | :10:29. | :10:37. | |
kind. It's only in recent years anybody bringing a civil claim it | :10:37. | :10:41. | |
turns on intelligence evidence. We have to protect the public, sources. | :10:41. | :10:44. | |
We need spies in these dangerous times but they can be accountable | :10:44. | :10:48. | |
to the court so long as the judge can hear it without the press, and | :10:48. | :10:53. | |
the public, anybody who wants to come in, the other parties. At the | :10:53. | :10:58. | |
moment, there is no justice because we have silence and we have drafted | :10:58. | :11:03. | |
this bill very carefully, to answer these fanciful conspiracy theories. | :11:03. | :11:07. | |
You have said it will be a judge who will decide whether or not a | :11:07. | :11:13. | |
case is heard. Labour and some Lib Dem peers are saying that is simply | :11:13. | :11:18. | |
not sufficiently strongly put into the legislation. They are not happy | :11:18. | :11:23. | |
with a safeguards. It is a slightly knee-jerk reaction. They can't | :11:23. | :11:27. | |
bring themselves to acknowledge that what they are back to rating | :11:27. | :11:31. | |
is the status quo. Noble is complained about what we do at the | :11:31. | :11:35. | |
moment, which has held it back from court altogether and just pay up, | :11:35. | :11:38. | |
but faced with a positive change, I don't know, they can't bring | :11:38. | :11:44. | |
themselves to accept this is going to be an improvement for reasonable | :11:44. | :11:48. | |
citizens. You can't hear it in open court. Let's solve that problem, | :11:48. | :11:53. | |
not just by saying, when it's dangerous. In future this might be | :11:53. | :11:59. | |
taken into other things. I'm against that. The bill makes clear | :11:59. | :12:04. | |
national security. The average British judge will want to only | :12:04. | :12:10. | |
keeps secret things which would endanger the country. Let me talk | :12:10. | :12:13. | |
more widely about justice. You are still looking after this particular | :12:13. | :12:20. | |
bill. When Chris Grayling was appointed in your place, he was | :12:20. | :12:25. | |
widely portrayed as a new and much tougher man taking over this very | :12:25. | :12:29. | |
difficult Prix. Do you think that there is a change of policy, change | :12:29. | :12:37. | |
of emphasis, direction? Or is at a new man doing the same job? The you | :12:37. | :12:44. | |
do get policy changes after a reshuffle. Sometimes quite dramatic. | :12:44. | :12:48. | |
Actually, Chris has not said anything yet which is not on the | :12:48. | :12:55. | |
same lines as me,... Apart from his talk about giving greater powers to | :12:55. | :13:00. | |
people who tackle an intruder in their homes. You clearly we're not | :13:00. | :13:06. | |
happy about that. You wrote a letter to him. I want to clarify | :13:06. | :13:11. | |
the law on self-defence. People constantly campaign about it. The | :13:11. | :13:15. | |
public are not certain and think they are not allowed to defend | :13:15. | :13:19. | |
themselves and react as a reasonable person would. They are | :13:19. | :13:24. | |
terrified in their own homes, whatever. We're trying to reassure | :13:24. | :13:29. | |
the campaigners it's all right. in a letter you wrote to her about | :13:29. | :13:35. | |
this, he said he is set himself up for an unnecessarily damaging | :13:35. | :13:38. | |
battle and heavyweight legal experts and the policy could easily | :13:38. | :13:43. | |
backfire. That's what you made of the ideas he came up with at the | :13:43. | :13:48. | |
Conservative Party conference. not flatly opposing it but I am | :13:48. | :13:52. | |
warning him to be careful. I say don't oversell it because if you do, | :13:52. | :13:57. | |
you will get into that difficulty. He is trying to do what I was | :13:57. | :14:01. | |
trying to do, explain to people that the law understands that | :14:01. | :14:07. | |
ordinary honours people, feeling in danger, threatened by an intruder, | :14:07. | :14:13. | |
whatever, will pick up a kitchen knife. I used to make speeches | :14:13. | :14:21. | |
myself that you could use whatever, people would understand of | :14:21. | :14:26. | |
defending themselves. This is not the only change. He's already | :14:26. | :14:29. | |
ditched one of your main ideas about reducing the prison | :14:29. | :14:33. | |
population. One of his first statement was to say he's not | :14:33. | :14:38. | |
interested in a wider effort to reduce the prison population and | :14:38. | :14:41. | |
nurses getting rid of foreign nationals. I think it's up to the | :14:41. | :14:47. | |
judges to decide. In order to set up this... You infuriated your | :14:47. | :14:56. | |
party. He said up a media pastiche of the change which exaggerates the | :14:56. | :15:02. | |
difference -- he set up. I never had a target of reducing prison | :15:02. | :15:08. | |
populations. I expressed surprise it had exploded. One of the things | :15:08. | :15:16. | |
I am concentrating on, reducing the reoffending rate, making prisons | :15:16. | :15:20. | |
more sensible places to reform prisoners. Trying to get the number | :15:20. | :15:24. | |
of crimes and victims down by turning few of them out to come | :15:24. | :15:30. | |
back. We are making progress there. We need a more intelligent use of | :15:30. | :15:34. | |
the prison system. I want to move on and talk about Europe because | :15:34. | :15:40. | |
obviously it is being dominating the political agenda. I just want | :15:40. | :15:46. | |
to... The British one fixation with Europe for the last 20 years. | :15:46. | :15:52. | |
just the British. When we want to move away from the day-to-day | :15:52. | :15:56. | |
politics, we always move on to Europe. Somebody who was there | :15:56. | :16:03. | |
during the John Major years, you will remember, do you feel as | :16:03. | :16:07. | |
though there's a sense of deja vu? Do you think your party is in | :16:07. | :16:17. | |
:16:17. | :16:17. | ||
Oh, a sense that everybody gets into a flap, it is hard to | :16:17. | :16:21. | |
understand what everybody meant in that debate, the Labour Party did | :16:21. | :16:24. | |
not start from the same position as the people they were voting with. | :16:24. | :16:29. | |
At a time of economic stringency, you cannot have the European budget | :16:29. | :16:33. | |
rising when everybody is having to cut back public spending, and we | :16:33. | :16:38. | |
have a strong position of going to, you know, get across to the other | :16:38. | :16:42. | |
member states... The Prime Minister was defeated by Euro-sceptics | :16:42. | :16:45. | |
teaming up with your political opponents. That is what happened | :16:45. | :16:49. | |
under John Major. The Euro-sceptics were teaming up with the Labour | :16:49. | :16:53. | |
Party, both United and advocating a position which is impracticable and | :16:54. | :16:58. | |
cannot be achieved. That has a certain similarity as well, Arona | :16:58. | :17:03. | |
the fears raised about the Maastricht treaty, and people | :17:03. | :17:11. | |
should die of shame after the warnings they gave. -- I remember. | :17:11. | :17:15. | |
The Prime Minister as a very strong negotiating position, and he is | :17:15. | :17:21. | |
going to aim for a freeze, and he has a veto he can use if necessary | :17:21. | :17:24. | |
and if it is justified. When you look at your party, when you look | :17:24. | :17:30. | |
around the Cabinet table, do you feel rather lonely? Michael Gove is | :17:30. | :17:39. | |
suggesting that we should have an in-out referendum, Iain Duncan | :17:39. | :17:43. | |
Smith, Owen Paterson and so on. You feel that you are a lone figure | :17:43. | :17:48. | |
around the Cabinet table? This coalition is even broader than the | :17:48. | :17:53. | |
coalition government I have sat in before. The Conservative Party has | :17:53. | :17:57. | |
always been a bit of a coalition! This government is working | :17:57. | :18:01. | |
particularly satisfactorily, with I may say so, much better than the | :18:01. | :18:05. | |
John Major Cabinet worked, precisely because we are men of | :18:05. | :18:08. | |
affairs to get on with the practical solution. We do not sit | :18:08. | :18:11. | |
around the Cabinet table having rehearsals of the old, old | :18:11. | :18:17. | |
arguments about Europe. We all agreed that we have got to hold the | :18:17. | :18:21. | |
European budget, the freeze is the real objective. I think it is the | :18:21. | :18:25. | |
right objective, but I'm not sure the tactics have been right. Going | :18:25. | :18:29. | |
back to the secret courts, rightly nicknamed, I think you are on the | :18:29. | :18:34. | |
wrong side of the argument. Justice needs to be seen to be done. Times | :18:34. | :18:38. | |
have always been dangerous, and these are fiercely democratic times, | :18:38. | :18:43. | |
people are very disinclined to trust institutions, politicians, | :18:43. | :18:50. | |
police, judges, and people intensely dislike that. You may be | :18:50. | :18:53. | |
liberal by the standards of your own party, but not by the standards | :18:53. | :19:00. | |
of Parliament or the country. think it is a slight... I just | :19:01. | :19:05. | |
cannot get the people I usually agree with over the line to accept | :19:05. | :19:10. | |
that this actually is going to allow more evidence to be heard by | :19:10. | :19:13. | |
a church and allowed judgments to be given than at the moment when | :19:13. | :19:18. | |
all you have his silence and money paid out. -- Hirta by a judge. You | :19:18. | :19:24. | |
must accept, in all common sense, no country in the world is going to | :19:24. | :19:28. | |
put its spies in the witness box to give open information about their | :19:28. | :19:32. | |
intelligence, how they obtained it, what they believe is being done by | :19:32. | :19:36. | |
people, how they collaborated with other agencies. We have to find | :19:36. | :19:40. | |
some other way... We are running out of time, I want to give Kevin a | :19:40. | :19:45. | |
quick... When you look around at Cabinet table, you do see allies | :19:45. | :19:49. | |
and colleagues, the Liberal Democrats, five of them. You feel | :19:49. | :19:53. | |
closer to them on the big issues than you do to the right of your | :19:53. | :19:57. | |
own party? A lot of the divisions in Cabinet, they are not divisions, | :19:57. | :20:02. | |
but when we debate things, it is not always on party lines. I mean, | :20:02. | :20:07. | |
I think, my own personal opinion, and I tease them occasionally, one | :20:07. | :20:11. | |
or two of the lead roles around the table of One nation Conservatives | :20:11. | :20:15. | |
on the wrong side of the war by accident. -- of the Liberals. You | :20:15. | :20:19. | |
can imagine how they come back at me! Vince Cable I have known since | :20:19. | :20:26. | |
we were students. I do not think he ever expected to sit at the same | :20:26. | :20:30. | |
Cabinet table as me, we are in national crisis, we have come | :20:30. | :20:33. | |
together in the national interest, and this Cabinet works extremely | :20:33. | :20:39. | |
well in deciding what we need to do and what is going to happen. The | :20:39. | :20:41. | |
conservative property has improved since we stopped having wild | :20:41. | :20:44. | |
theological debates and got on with the details of delivering what we | :20:44. | :20:49. | |
need to. -- the Conservative Party. Ken Clarke, thank you very much | :20:49. | :20:52. | |
indeed for joining us. In just under two weeks' time, voters | :20:52. | :20:56. | |
across England and Wales will be asked to go to the polls to elect | :20:56. | :21:01. | |
41 new police and crime commission has, but what exactly will they do? | :21:01. | :21:08. | |
-- commissioners. Our reporter travelled to the United States | :21:08. | :21:10. | |
before the hurricane to meet the former police commissioner of New | :21:10. | :21:15. | |
York, Bill Bratton, who believes the commissioners can be as | :21:15. | :21:24. | |
effective in cutting crime in the Armed and highly visible, following | :21:24. | :21:27. | |
the September 11th attacks, security was stepped up on the | :21:28. | :21:31. | |
streets, on the Subway and in the sky above New York. It may be | :21:31. | :21:35. | |
partly due to the increased police presence that it is now one of the | :21:35. | :21:38. | |
safest cities in the world, but it is also down to a concerted | :21:38. | :21:42. | |
crackdown led by Michael Bloomberg in partnership with the city's | :21:42. | :21:46. | |
appointed Police Commissioner. you look at the two decades of | :21:46. | :21:53. | |
reduction in crime that we have had in New York City, about 80%, and | :21:53. | :21:58. | |
hopefully that is what can happen in the UK. Violent crime in New | :21:58. | :22:02. | |
York has been falling since the early 1990s. Lasers like this, | :22:02. | :22:08. | |
Union Square, was once considered a no-go zone after dark but it now | :22:08. | :22:13. | |
has eight police presence and is considered much safer. New York is | :22:13. | :22:18. | |
now unrecognisable from the gritty city of the 1980s, when it was the | :22:18. | :22:21. | |
crime capital of the US. Tough action was needed, and Bill Bratton | :22:21. | :22:26. | |
was brought in as the city's police commissioner. He quickly became | :22:26. | :22:28. | |
famous for his zero-tolerance policy and says the UK can learn | :22:28. | :22:31. | |
from the decision to give more local political control to the | :22:31. | :22:39. | |
police. It is not a panacea, not a perfect system, but it does ensure | :22:39. | :22:46. | |
that police do focus on local issues, what it is in the community | :22:46. | :22:49. | |
that is creating fear. Criminologists say much of the | :22:49. | :22:52. | |
credit for the reduction in crime must go to the commissioner. Until | :22:52. | :22:57. | |
the early 1990s, the assumption was crime was driven by the economy, by | :22:57. | :23:02. | |
inequality, by you name it, racism and poverty. Bill Bratton came in | :23:02. | :23:08. | |
and said no, we are responsible, and we are going to start measuring | :23:08. | :23:13. | |
results, and police commissioners should be held accountable by the | :23:13. | :23:18. | |
public. While the commissioner has been credited with cutting crime, | :23:18. | :23:21. | |
critics question whether there is a danger they may overstep their | :23:21. | :23:28. | |
powers. There are stubborn pockets within the cities, and the police | :23:28. | :23:32. | |
have concentrated a disproportionate number of patrol | :23:32. | :23:35. | |
officers, and there are other residents who feel that the police | :23:35. | :23:38. | |
have got a checkpoint attitudes towards those neighbourhoods. | :23:38. | :23:42. | |
was the unrest which began in London and spread across England | :23:42. | :23:46. | |
during the 2011 riots which all David Cameron turn to Bill Bratton | :23:46. | :23:51. | |
for advice. He warns that those are elected as commissioners face tough | :23:51. | :23:56. | |
challenges. There is so much happening in your country at this | :23:56. | :24:00. | |
time, on the national level, the mandated cuts in levels of service. | :24:00. | :24:06. | |
At the local level now, there is significant, significant change in | :24:06. | :24:13. | |
how policing is delivered. And it is all happening so fast. So my | :24:13. | :24:20. | |
suggestion would be, basically, do not expect too much early on. | :24:20. | :24:23. | |
month's elections will see the biggest change since modern | :24:23. | :24:27. | |
policing began. Despite differences in the systems, Bill Bratton | :24:27. | :24:30. | |
believes the crime-fighting solutions that have worked in New | :24:30. | :24:34. | |
York, particularly the role of a strong commissioner, can be just as | :24:34. | :24:39. | |
effective across England and Wales. Louise Stewart reporting, and we | :24:39. | :24:42. | |
have been joined by five candidates standing in different regions, | :24:43. | :24:47. | |
Simon Spencer, standing for the Conservatives in Derbyshire, | :24:47. | :24:50. | |
currently deputy leader of Derbyshire County Council. Former | :24:50. | :24:53. | |
Labour minister Jane Kennedy is standing in Merseyside and joined | :24:53. | :24:58. | |
us from Liverpool. From Bristol, Lib Dem councillor and former | :24:58. | :25:04. | |
police constable Pete Levy is standing in Avon and Somerset. UK | :25:04. | :25:08. | |
and Pete MEP Godfrey Bloom is standing in Humberside. And Mick | :25:08. | :25:11. | |
Thwaites is standing as an independent in Essex. Welcome to | :25:11. | :25:18. | |
all of you. Let me start with you, as you are here with me in the | :25:19. | :25:23. | |
studio, Simon, this idea has been one that the Conservative Party has | :25:23. | :25:27. | |
pushed through. What real difference do you think it will | :25:27. | :25:33. | |
make, having these police commissioners of whatever colour | :25:33. | :25:37. | |
there and overseeing the local police priorities? Well, I have | :25:37. | :25:41. | |
always been a great fan of this policy and it brings a new level of | :25:41. | :25:44. | |
accountability and transparency to policing that we have never seen in | :25:44. | :25:47. | |
the past. I would say that to understand what we're doing, we | :25:47. | :25:50. | |
need to understand what we have in place at the moment, and from that | :25:50. | :25:54. | |
point of view police authorities have been in place for 17 years. | :25:54. | :25:57. | |
They are expensive, in my opinion. They have worked, but this change | :25:58. | :26:01. | |
will bring a new level of accountability and transparency, | :26:01. | :26:04. | |
and how that will work is that it will be the role of the | :26:04. | :26:08. | |
Commissioner to articulate the views of the public to the chief | :26:08. | :26:10. | |
constable without politicising the role of the frontline police | :26:10. | :26:17. | |
officer. Jane Kennedy, if I can bring you in as someone who has | :26:17. | :26:21. | |
been a government minister, how do you think these police | :26:21. | :26:24. | |
commissioners are actually going to be better at reflecting public | :26:24. | :26:29. | |
priorities? Surely we have a Home Secretary and other ministers who | :26:29. | :26:35. | |
already do that. I mean, clearly there will be the election itself, | :26:35. | :26:39. | |
will forge a very close relationship between the | :26:39. | :26:43. | |
Commissioner and the electorate. Now, we are all worried about a low | :26:43. | :26:47. | |
turnout, but whatever the turnout, I imagine most commissioners will | :26:47. | :26:50. | |
feel themselves to be very close the accountable to the communities | :26:50. | :26:54. | |
and will want to speak for them, as I will, if I'm elected for | :26:54. | :26:58. | |
Merseyside. Now, I like the idea of the bill Bratton approach to | :26:58. | :27:05. | |
policing, where you... It is a kind of problem-solving approach, and if | :27:05. | :27:09. | |
I were elected, it is the kind of approach I would bring to crime- | :27:09. | :27:13. | |
fighting, particularly in a time when we are seeing savage cuts to | :27:13. | :27:17. | |
police budgets. We are going to have to examine every aspect of | :27:17. | :27:20. | |
crime and crime trends and engage with everybody who has got anything | :27:21. | :27:26. | |
to do with fighting crime. Mick Thwaites, if I can bring you in, | :27:26. | :27:31. | |
the thing that is right? Is that the way that this is going to work? | :27:31. | :27:36. | |
-- do you think. It has never been any different. We have got to work | :27:36. | :27:39. | |
with all the communities and agencies, local authorities, | :27:39. | :27:43. | |
voluntary sector, charities. We need to engage everybody in the | :27:43. | :27:46. | |
process of delivering better life for people across our towns and | :27:46. | :27:51. | |
villages. That is about reducing crime, reducing antisocial | :27:51. | :27:54. | |
behaviour, and the police themselves cannot do this alone. So | :27:54. | :27:59. | |
that is going to be the key task for the commissioner, to bring very | :28:00. | :28:04. | |
diverse communities together, many organisations together, and have | :28:04. | :28:08. | |
one Focus, which is delivering crime reduction and delivering the | :28:08. | :28:11. | |
reduction in antisocial behaviour across a very large geographical | :28:11. | :28:17. | |
areas. Godfrey Bloom, if I can bring you in here, isn't there a | :28:17. | :28:21. | |
danger, though, that instead of a senior police officer looking at | :28:21. | :28:26. | |
the same, this should be the priority for the whole area, that | :28:26. | :28:30. | |
these police commissioners are going to find themselves swayed by | :28:30. | :28:33. | |
perhaps particularly vocal groups of residents in one part of their | :28:33. | :28:39. | |
patch who have got a particular concern? Yes, it is a danger, and I | :28:39. | :28:43. | |
think this is why the electorate needs to look very closely at who | :28:43. | :28:47. | |
is standing, and I would suggest not to worry whether they are | :28:47. | :28:51. | |
Labour, Conservative or UKIP, look at the individuals and see if they | :28:51. | :28:55. | |
can handle those problems, see if they can handle those pressures | :28:55. | :29:01. | |
that they will be, prioritise very big budgets, 3,000 people, 4,000 | :29:01. | :29:07. | |
people working for an authority. This is a very, very big job, a | :29:07. | :29:10. | |
very new job, and I'm not altogether sure yet that folly -- | :29:11. | :29:15. | |
that people fully appreciate that. Mick Thwaites, if I can come back | :29:15. | :29:19. | |
you, as somebody who has worked in the police force, do you think | :29:20. | :29:26. | |
there is a danger about decisions on policing being politicised? | :29:26. | :29:29. | |
There is always the danger when this concept was first discussed | :29:29. | :29:33. | |
several years ago. Chief constables will be worried that their | :29:33. | :29:38. | |
operational independence, the control of policing and a daily | :29:38. | :29:42. | |
basis, where to put the cops, on which street corners, which crimes | :29:42. | :29:47. | |
to investigate, he will investigate what and with what resources, it | :29:47. | :29:52. | |
has always been a huge risk around one individual having immense power | :29:52. | :29:57. | |
over the police. I am not... I do not find that so difficult, because | :29:57. | :30:01. | |
very quickly the relationship between the chief and the police | :30:01. | :30:04. | |
commissioner will clearly, each one will know where their art in the | :30:05. | :30:10. | |
very early stages. There may well be a clear protocol that sets up | :30:10. | :30:13. | |
the ground the commissioner takes and the ground the chief constable | :30:13. | :30:17. | |
takes, but in some instances that boundary may be crossed, and that | :30:17. | :30:25. | |
Isn't there a danger that the public simply don't understand how | :30:25. | :30:29. | |
this is going to work and, in a sense, it won't work unless the | :30:29. | :30:34. | |
public get engaged and the signs are at the moment, they aren't. | :30:34. | :30:38. | |
They had everything stacked against them. There would have thought you | :30:38. | :30:47. | |
would have an election as important at this in November. Things are | :30:47. | :30:51. | |
stacked up against the public and giving to the point about people | :30:51. | :30:54. | |
looking beyond the party label but at the individual, I agree with | :30:54. | :30:59. | |
that, however, it is impossible in this particular election for most | :30:59. | :31:04. | |
of us to communicate with the electorate. In Merseyside, there | :31:04. | :31:08. | |
are 8 million voters. People are definitely going to be relying on | :31:08. | :31:12. | |
the party label and if we have a very low turnout, which we fear, | :31:12. | :31:17. | |
then it is going to be quite a risk the outcome. A number of us are | :31:17. | :31:21. | |
anxious that people shouldn't take this election for granted. We urge | :31:21. | :31:26. | |
the public to get involved. It is a very important and powerful role | :31:26. | :31:31. | |
and, yes, the individual that does that job is very important, so we | :31:31. | :31:35. | |
urge the public to use whatever means they can and we are doing our | :31:35. | :31:39. | |
best to communicate with them. Peter Levey, do you have concerns | :31:39. | :31:44. | |
about how this is going to work? You were with the Wiltshire | :31:45. | :31:49. | |
Constabulary. You have been in the Royal Military Police. Having seen | :31:49. | :31:54. | |
it on that side of the fence, are you concerned about how this is | :31:54. | :31:59. | |
going to work? There still seems to be huge amounts of scope for | :31:59. | :32:03. | |
different interpretations of rules and places for these Police | :32:03. | :32:07. | |
Commissioner's, pursuing a specific project once they are in and | :32:08. | :32:14. | |
elected, they can do pretty much what they want. Yes, I think in an | :32:14. | :32:19. | |
area as diverse as Avon and Somerset, we have huge rural areas, | :32:19. | :32:24. | |
urban areas as well, and there is a genuine fear amongst residents that | :32:24. | :32:28. | |
resources will be sucked into areas like Bristol and rural crime will | :32:28. | :32:35. | |
be forgotten. Crime has dropped in the UK, detection rates are | :32:35. | :32:42. | |
improving but that is effective policing and partnership localised | :32:42. | :32:45. | |
operating. I think whoever becomes the police and crime commissioner, | :32:45. | :32:49. | |
they need to engage with those people, create the most effective | :32:49. | :32:54. | |
lines of communication with the residence so we know what they want, | :32:54. | :33:00. | |
and where to effectively put resources. Simon, this has been an | :33:00. | :33:07. | |
important policy for your party. But they don't seem to have done | :33:07. | :33:12. | |
enough to infuse the public. Surely it is only through public | :33:12. | :33:17. | |
engagement that this idea will work? The other candidates are | :33:17. | :33:27. | |
:33:27. | :33:28. | ||
doing their best across the country. Could more a been done nationally? | :33:28. | :33:33. | |
What I would say is the role is all about engagement with the public | :33:33. | :33:39. | |
and articulating their views. We have 4,000 voluntary organisations, | :33:39. | :33:45. | |
some very good statutory bodies delivering superb services and | :33:45. | :33:48. | |
working in partnership will be an integral part of the job. From my | :33:48. | :33:54. | |
point of view, it's extremely important whoever gets this job, | :33:54. | :33:59. | |
and I have a background as a firefighter, I have run my own | :33:59. | :34:05. | |
business, and my department in the council is similar to the police | :34:05. | :34:10. | |
authority budget, so what I would say is we have got to work with | :34:10. | :34:14. | |
everybody and the rule everybody's views together and understand them. | :34:14. | :34:18. | |
The key thing is going to be the personalities of those people who | :34:18. | :34:23. | |
are elected. The public will have a chance eventually to vote them out, | :34:23. | :34:28. | |
but, in the meantime, it's an awful lot of power to put in the hands of | :34:28. | :34:32. | |
one person in an area where we have not had those sorts of figures in | :34:32. | :34:38. | |
the past. I entirely agree. I wouldn't necessarily start from | :34:38. | :34:41. | |
here, so the electorate must be sure they elect somebody who | :34:41. | :34:46. | |
understands budgets, with the reformed background, military, | :34:46. | :34:53. | |
police, somebody who understands what is involved and can bring an | :34:54. | :34:59. | |
interpretation of statistics to it. The HMRC has sent us a huge amount | :34:59. | :35:03. | |
of statistics, difficult to read, and is the individual capable of | :35:03. | :35:08. | |
reading it? It takes lot of experience to do this sort of thing. | :35:08. | :35:14. | |
The thank you very much. Kevin, do you think this will work? I think | :35:14. | :35:19. | |
it has failed before at the start because one in five have to vote | :35:20. | :35:23. | |
for it and we have not brought for the candidates the Government | :35:23. | :35:29. | |
thought. The real test will be the next wave of elections, when you | :35:29. | :35:33. | |
get a mushroom of extra candidate and people think it's worthwhile to | :35:33. | :35:38. | |
come out and vote. If you're a tough on the cause of crime, you | :35:38. | :35:43. | |
could be a huge Waterfront, and be able to going the social issues, | :35:43. | :35:47. | |
mental health issues, and it's a big platform for whoever wins in | :35:47. | :35:54. | |
each area. I'm all for it for the obvious complaints people have up | :35:54. | :35:59. | |
with it, worries about populism, I think it's a good idea. Eventually, | :35:59. | :36:05. | |
it will be very popular. OK, thank you very much and thanks to all the | :36:05. | :36:08. | |
candidates in various different parts for joining us. This week | :36:08. | :36:11. | |
we've seen the issue of Europe causing splits and arguments in the | :36:11. | :36:14. | |
Conservative party, with 53 eurosceptic MPs defying a three | :36:14. | :36:17. | |
line government whip and joining Labour to vote for a cut in the EU | :36:17. | :36:21. | |
budget. But it's also posing tricky questions for pro-Europeans like | :36:21. | :36:29. | |
what should Britain's relationship with the EU look like? Last night | :36:29. | :36:32. | |
on Question Time, David Miliband was asked to explain why Labour | :36:32. | :36:36. | |
supported an increase in the EU budget in 2005. But are now calling | :36:36. | :36:39. | |
for a cut? He backed his brother, saying that asking Brussels to cut | :36:39. | :36:47. | |
spending doesn't mean Labour is backing away from Europe. | :36:47. | :36:51. | |
We negotiated in 2005, for the first time ever, instead of Britain | :36:51. | :36:54. | |
paying a three times as much contribution as France, we would | :36:54. | :36:59. | |
pay the same as France. We negotiated the enlargement of the | :36:59. | :37:02. | |
EU which a Conservative Party and the Lib Dems both supported and the | :37:02. | :37:06. | |
budget went up to pay for the historic enlargement of the | :37:06. | :37:14. | |
European Union. Let me finish the point. The world has changed since | :37:14. | :37:18. | |
2005-6. We've had a global financial crisis and we need to cut | :37:18. | :37:21. | |
the deficit at home and we also need to make sure that we reduce | :37:21. | :37:25. | |
spending in Europe as well, and I think there has been a real problem | :37:25. | :37:29. | |
for pro-Europeans like me. We have seemed like we always wanted more | :37:29. | :37:33. | |
spending. We were soft-headed about more spending, but what you have | :37:33. | :37:37. | |
got is a repositioning in the Labour Party not to go from being | :37:37. | :37:41. | |
pro-Europe to anti-Europe, but to take on, this idea that to be pro- | :37:42. | :37:46. | |
European you're always for more spending. That was David Miliband | :37:46. | :37:49. | |
at last night. And we've been joined by Will Straw who works at | :37:49. | :37:52. | |
the IPPR think tank. And Katinka Barisch, deputy director of the | :37:52. | :37:56. | |
Centre for European Reform. Thank you both very much indeed for | :37:56. | :38:05. | |
joining us. You have got a new report out this week saying that we | :38:06. | :38:09. | |
should have an inner out referendum. That's right, we think a referendum | :38:09. | :38:13. | |
has become increasingly inevitable. When you look at the things David | :38:13. | :38:17. | |
Cameron has been saying about wanting to go to Europe, to try to | :38:17. | :38:21. | |
get his repatriation of powers and then take it to the British people. | :38:21. | :38:24. | |
We think it is incredibly unrealistic, we don't think he will | :38:24. | :38:29. | |
get it, and if there was a referendum, anything other than the | :38:29. | :38:31. | |
fundamental question, we think a lot of people would be very upset | :38:31. | :38:37. | |
by it. People would say you are not asking the right questions. In | :38:37. | :38:41. | |
Scotland, David Cameron things we have to take on the fundamental | :38:41. | :38:44. | |
questions so we have to do the same for Europe and that would make | :38:44. | :38:48. | |
people pro-European, like myself, make the case to the public why | :38:48. | :38:53. | |
been in is better than leaving. Until now, people pushing for this | :38:54. | :38:57. | |
type of referendum tend to be Euro- sceptics, people who ultimately | :38:57. | :39:01. | |
think it would be good idea if we had at least the weapon of being | :39:01. | :39:05. | |
able to threaten to leave the European Union, but you would argue | :39:05. | :39:13. | |
firmly on the pro-European case for staying in Europe? The that's right. | :39:13. | :39:15. | |
People all around the country are have in this discussion. It's time | :39:15. | :39:20. | |
to do take it from Westminster to the public. That would then | :39:20. | :39:24. | |
discovered people in civil society, politicians, and a pot newspapers | :39:24. | :39:28. | |
to decide which side of the debate they want to be on, because we've | :39:28. | :39:31. | |
not had a positive case for Europe are made by those groups for 30 | :39:31. | :39:37. | |
years. Do you think he has a case for saying that we need to get | :39:37. | :39:42. | |
these arguments out there and have a proper debate about it? I agree | :39:42. | :39:45. | |
with absolutely everything he says under the proviso that if | :39:45. | :39:49. | |
politicians start to make a positive case for Europe, how much | :39:49. | :39:54. | |
time have they got, and would be enough? I've been in this country | :39:54. | :39:59. | |
for 20 years and I have seen the media and politicians drip feeding | :39:59. | :40:03. | |
people negative news about Europe. Do we really believe that a bunch | :40:03. | :40:07. | |
of politicians can turn this around in a matter of months, few years | :40:07. | :40:12. | |
even? In a campaign situation, when people are very cautious about what | :40:12. | :40:16. | |
they believe and what they don't believe, and I think it's a highly | :40:16. | :40:23. | |
risky strategy because people would find themselves outside the EU in a | :40:23. | :40:27. | |
weak position to renegotiate the deal with the rest of the Europeans. | :40:27. | :40:33. | |
Are you worried about having an in and out referendum because the pro- | :40:33. | :40:38. | |
Europeans appear to be losing the arguments? Because there hasn't | :40:38. | :40:41. | |
been a proper debate about what is at stake here, the Euro-sceptics | :40:41. | :40:46. | |
are not making a very genuine argument because Britain actually | :40:46. | :40:50. | |
gains quite significantly from being in the single market and | :40:50. | :40:54. | |
within the European Union, which is a big block of countries in a | :40:55. | :40:58. | |
globalised world. It needs that membership so I don't think the | :40:58. | :41:03. | |
debate is properly started. Interesting that Labour joined | :41:03. | :41:07. | |
forces with the Euro-sceptics. Do you think Ed Miliband is trying to | :41:07. | :41:11. | |
reposition itself? I think there was a degree of opportunism in what | :41:11. | :41:19. | |
he did undoubtedly but European this question, 3% of MPs know we're | :41:19. | :41:24. | |
going down that road a. David Cameron will set out a referendum | :41:24. | :41:28. | |
soon and Labour will match him in their manifesto and there is a | :41:28. | :41:31. | |
debate among the Shadow Cabinet about how Labour should approach | :41:31. | :41:36. | |
this. Jim Murphy, I've heard her argue for going for an in out | :41:36. | :41:41. | |
referendum like in Scotland, do you want independence or not? Go | :41:41. | :41:45. | |
straight to the crux. I expect a referendum like that is the only | :41:45. | :41:50. | |
one which could be run by pro- Europeans. Don't mess around about | :41:50. | :41:53. | |
renegotiations on this and that. Just say to people, do you want to | :41:53. | :42:00. | |
be in or out? In 1975, Harold Wilson had a referendum, 2-1 to | :42:00. | :42:05. | |
stay in the Common Market. In 1983, Labour's manifesto, let's pull out | :42:05. | :42:10. | |
of the Common Market. The Prime Minister has said he might allow a | :42:10. | :42:14. | |
referendum after the next general election. Do you think we are | :42:15. | :42:19. | |
heading to the stage where that is going to happen? He has been pushed | :42:19. | :42:23. | |
towards that. I think it would be suicidal for the pro-European camp | :42:23. | :42:31. | |
to push for one right now. Europe is in crisis. The eurozone, part of | :42:31. | :42:35. | |
it is in flames. No-one knows what's going to happen to that. | :42:35. | :42:39. | |
After the next election. You can't stop these things once they start | :42:39. | :42:45. | |
rolling. At you couldn't do it now. You've got to wait for the eurozone | :42:45. | :42:53. | |
crisis to come to an end. That gets lost in the noise. If you're | :42:53. | :42:56. | |
calling for an in and out referendum, because you hope it | :42:56. | :43:03. | |
will bring out a big level of advocacy for Europe. It would be a | :43:03. | :43:10. | |
disaster. Do you think that there is a danger that this increasing | :43:10. | :43:14. | |
discussion about an in out referendum is destabilising in | :43:14. | :43:20. | |
terms of Britain's position within the EU? Yes, the Continent are | :43:20. | :43:25. | |
getting very concerned about what's going on here. Also what they see | :43:25. | :43:29. | |
as a debate in Britain is not necessarily realistic, the idea | :43:29. | :43:33. | |
anybody in Europe is waiting for David Cameron to turn up with a | :43:33. | :43:36. | |
list of powers he wants to take back to Britain, that's crazy. | :43:36. | :43:41. | |
Europe is in an existential crisis and are not in the mood to talk | :43:41. | :43:45. | |
about the Fisheries Policy. Do you think the Labour Party is now | :43:45. | :43:49. | |
moving towards a position where it will call for an in out referendum | :43:49. | :43:54. | |
in the run-up to the next election? There is a debate taking place in | :43:54. | :43:59. | |
the Labour Party at the moment and IPPR feeds into the debate around | :43:59. | :44:02. | |
Westminster and we think it's the right thing to do because if you | :44:02. | :44:06. | |
don't do it, these pressures just build up and build up and it could | :44:06. | :44:11. | |
make the referendum what happens even worse for the pro-Europeans. | :44:11. | :44:20. | |
Thank you all very much indeed for joining us. And some news just | :44:20. | :44:23. | |
breaking in the last hour relating to the former Labour minister Denis | :44:23. | :44:26. | |
MacShane. Chris Mason can tell us more. This is a findings from the | :44:26. | :44:32. | |
parliamentary authorities on his expenses. They've been written into | :44:32. | :44:37. | |
his expenses during at 2005-eight. Their report has just been | :44:37. | :44:41. | |
published in the last half an hour and it's very, very critical of his | :44:41. | :44:47. | |
conduct. In short, they say he claimed for far more computers, his | :44:47. | :44:53. | |
own use and for his office, than was legitimate. They say those | :44:53. | :44:57. | |
claims were excessive. They also say there was a good number of | :44:57. | :45:02. | |
claims submitted for work he said he was doing for the European | :45:02. | :45:07. | |
Policy Institute connected to a long-term policy, the issue of | :45:07. | :45:12. | |
European politics, he's a former Europe minister, but they say that | :45:12. | :45:18. | |
those receipts and expenses were plainly intended to deceive. They | :45:18. | :45:21. | |
outlined the European policies did not stack up as an independent | :45:21. | :45:27. | |
organisation separate from Mr MacShane. They were almost the same | :45:27. | :45:31. | |
thing. There is also strong criticism for how he handled | :45:31. | :45:36. | |
himself during this investigation, saying he withdrew co-operation | :45:36. | :45:41. | |
during part of their inquiry and the whole process in which she put | :45:41. | :45:44. | |
together is expenses was not anywhere near the standards they | :45:44. | :45:50. | |
were hoping for from an MP. So, very, very strong criticism. A | :45:50. | :45:54. | |
recommendation he should be suspended as an MP for 12 months. | :45:54. | :45:58. | |
Labour have responded immediately and withdrawn of the whip from Mr | :45:58. | :46:02. | |
McShane. He says he is saddened and shocked by the decision and are | :46:02. | :46:12. | |
:46:12. | :46:13. | ||
deeply regrets how he behaved. Day-in, day-out, we see | :46:13. | :46:16. | |
correspondents like Chris and myself standing outside and inside | :46:16. | :46:20. | |
Parliament, reporting the daily events on the news, but soon we | :46:20. | :46:23. | |
could start to see the iconic buildings crop up on the big screen. | :46:23. | :46:26. | |
In an effort to raise more money, Parliamentary All authorities are | :46:26. | :46:32. | |
considering open up the buildings to let the film crews in, for a | :46:32. | :46:37. | |
price, of course. Whitehall has been used in many movies, not least | :46:37. | :46:40. | |
in the new James Bond film, Skyfall, and we will speak to the | :46:40. | :46:44. | |
supervising location manager on the latest instalment of 007, but first | :46:44. | :46:54. | |
:46:54. | :47:20. | ||
Well, we have been joined by James Grant, a film locations manager who | :47:20. | :47:23. | |
worked on Skyfall and managed to get some parts of Westminster | :47:23. | :47:28. | |
closed to traffic to allow filming to take place. Welcome to the Daily | :47:28. | :47:33. | |
Politics, thank you for joining us. Thank you. Talas first novel, was | :47:33. | :47:37. | |
it very difficult? I have to say, I have not seen the film yet, but | :47:38. | :47:42. | |
there is some filming in locations around Westminster, how difficult | :47:42. | :47:47. | |
was that? Westminster featured very strongly. We were filming on | :47:47. | :47:52. | |
Whitehall itself, we were on Vauxhall Bridge and what-have-you, | :47:53. | :47:57. | |
and we closed Millbank. It is a main character for the film, and I | :47:57. | :48:04. | |
actually started working on it from July of last year, with a team of | :48:04. | :48:06. | |
location managers and assistance and what have the working our way | :48:06. | :48:11. | |
through the script, seeing what was needed, and then approaching | :48:11. | :48:14. | |
Westminster Special Events Office, TfL, the Houses of Parliament and | :48:14. | :48:21. | |
so on, to try and achieve what we needed. What about the idea that is | :48:21. | :48:25. | |
now being considered, that we might actually be allowed to film inside, | :48:25. | :48:29. | |
outside, on top of the Houses of Parliament? Is that an appealing | :48:29. | :48:33. | |
prospect question I hit it would be great. It is a lot easier for the | :48:33. | :48:39. | |
factual programmes to get inside the Houses of Parliament. Because | :48:39. | :48:44. | |
of our size, crews can be 100 or 200 people, high days and holidays, | :48:44. | :48:47. | |
but to get inside the houses of parliament in-cell and Big Ben | :48:47. | :48:54. | |
would be fantastic. -- itself. Presumably these matters are very | :48:54. | :48:57. | |
complicated, getting the right permission from the right people, | :48:57. | :49:00. | |
making sure you have not got groups of tourists walking across the set | :49:00. | :49:05. | |
at the vital moment. Yes, logistically it takes time, and it | :49:05. | :49:10. | |
is a creative process. You go to them with a plan, and the planned | :49:10. | :49:14. | |
changes, and so you have to keep going back and saying, what we want | :49:14. | :49:18. | |
to do now is this... The individuals you are dealing with | :49:18. | :49:20. | |
are usually very excited but they are not used to those changes | :49:20. | :49:25. | |
taking place. Do you fall back on lookalikes and mock-ups? We quite | :49:25. | :49:31. | |
often see the door of Number Ten Downing Street, don't we? Indeed. | :49:31. | :49:34. | |
Sometimes they build it, which is not very good for me as a location | :49:34. | :49:38. | |
manager, because it goes back to a studio, I am not very happy about | :49:38. | :49:45. | |
that! If not, things like Downing Street, you end up going to a local | :49:45. | :49:48. | |
double, John Adam Street, you can make that look like Number Ten | :49:48. | :49:54. | |
quite easily. Kevin, do think it would be a good thing, good for the | :49:54. | :49:57. | |
Westminster World to feature a bit more highly perhaps in some of | :49:57. | :50:03. | |
these very high profile films? would love to see the Queen, and a | :50:03. | :50:07. | |
big Opening Ceremony star, parachuting into Prime Minister's | :50:07. | :50:11. | |
questions. It is a fantastic building and it will cost hundreds | :50:11. | :50:16. | |
of millions to put it right. If you can make a movie money, fantastic. | :50:16. | :50:20. | |
As long as it is not a late-night dodgy movie on the Speaker's chair, | :50:20. | :50:25. | |
it is fine. The downside is for Manchester's Town Hall, because | :50:25. | :50:30. | |
it's wonderful sweeping staircases often double as the House of | :50:31. | :50:36. | |
Commons. There are lots of parts of Parliament that would make | :50:36. | :50:40. | |
fantastic locations. There are some great shots in the film, the | :50:40. | :50:49. | |
rooftops and the gutters. The MoD, yeah. On the roof of the MoD, that | :50:49. | :50:57. | |
was a mind? -- that was a good one. We were thinking of the Thirty nine | :50:57. | :51:01. | |
Steps, the guy hanging off one of the hands of the clock on Big Ben, | :51:01. | :51:05. | |
that was mocked up. You have a scenario you would like to film in | :51:05. | :51:10. | |
Westminster? It is just the chambers and corridors and | :51:10. | :51:14. | |
staircases. I mean, I have never scouted it. I have scuppered some | :51:14. | :51:18. | |
fantastic locations that the average person would not be able to | :51:18. | :51:22. | |
get inside. -- scouted. Just to have the permission to go inside | :51:22. | :51:28. | |
and see what is there, it is an amazing listed building, and you | :51:28. | :51:32. | |
know, weekends, bank holidays, national holidays and so on, it is | :51:32. | :51:36. | |
available, and that is when we do a lot of filming. I go in most days, | :51:36. | :51:41. | |
and it is only when you take an outsider in that you see what a | :51:41. | :51:46. | |
wonderful building the front Palace is. It is quite a labyrinth. There | :51:46. | :51:49. | |
are terrific rooms, the Drew Ginn room, the House of Lords, the | :51:49. | :51:56. | |
Commons. Another big hope is that if they phone the next Bond movie | :51:56. | :52:00. | |
there, they may need a few cameo roles for political | :52:00. | :52:05. | |
correspondence... Can we do the deal now? We cannot afford MPs, | :52:05. | :52:12. | |
their rates would be too high for us, I am sure! It has been another | :52:12. | :52:15. | |
busy political week with rebellions over Europe, as we have been | :52:15. | :52:20. | |
discussing, spats over energy policy, and the return of a big | :52:20. | :52:23. | |
Westminster these. Here is Susanna with a round-up of the last seven | :52:23. | :52:33. | |
:52:33. | :52:33. | ||
Tarzan swung back into action this week, telling Dave that people do | :52:33. | :52:39. | |
not think he had a strategy for growth, but never fear, and 89 a | :52:39. | :52:43. | |
point plan for getting the country up and running. They've had t'other | :52:43. | :52:50. | |
troubles on his hands and the Westminster jungle as they teamed | :52:50. | :52:57. | |
up with the enemy. -- Dave had tuk- tuk troubles. He is weak abroad, | :52:57. | :53:03. | |
week at home, it is John Major all over again. Ever get the feeling | :53:03. | :53:07. | |
that the coalition is blowing in different directions? First the | :53:07. | :53:10. | |
Tory energy minister said the UK had had enough of wind farms, but | :53:10. | :53:15. | |
then Ed Davey blew that a wave. am in charge of renewable policy, | :53:15. | :53:19. | |
and the policy has not changed. wind power was blowing the | :53:19. | :53:24. | |
political razed of the White House of course, campaigning star Das | :53:24. | :53:29. | |
Hurricane Sandy swept in, but with just four days to go, it is back to | :53:29. | :53:38. | |
business. -- campaigning stopped as. Back to business, that crucial last | :53:38. | :53:42. | |
phase of the American presidential elections, and we are joined now to | :53:42. | :53:47. | |
look at all of this with the London bureau chief of the Wall Street | :53:47. | :53:52. | |
Journal. Thank you very much indeed for coming in. We have had this | :53:52. | :53:57. | |
extraordinary few days whereby we have had a National Natural | :53:57. | :54:02. | |
Disaster, somehow wrapped up with the final phase of the presidential | :54:02. | :54:07. | |
elections. How do you think it has played? Well, it is probably not | :54:08. | :54:12. | |
good news for Mitt Romney. The storm sweeps in, obviously it is a | :54:12. | :54:17. | |
terrible tragedy. The President has the opportunity to look very | :54:17. | :54:23. | |
presidential, as he goes around New Jersey, and he had the added | :54:23. | :54:27. | |
benefit of getting to go on this tour of New Jersey and hug victims, | :54:27. | :54:31. | |
along with Governor Chris Christie, a Republican who was at one time | :54:31. | :54:34. | |
thought to be a potential running mate for Mitt Romney. So this has | :54:34. | :54:39. | |
not been the greatest sequence of events for the Republican candidate. | :54:39. | :54:45. | |
And Chris Christie, as you say, a major figure in Europe and said he | :54:45. | :54:49. | |
thought the President was doing a fantastic job. -- a major figure in | :54:49. | :54:54. | |
the Republican Party. Mitt Romney had earlier made statements about | :54:54. | :54:58. | |
his plan to dismantle the Federal Emergency Management Agency, which | :54:58. | :55:02. | |
is the one which co-ordinates all these big disasters among different | :55:02. | :55:06. | |
states. So he was asked about that afterwards, his campaign did not | :55:06. | :55:10. | |
back away from his earlier statement, so again timing is | :55:10. | :55:14. | |
everything, and his timing was not good. And although there has been a | :55:14. | :55:18. | |
huge loss of life and there has been a widescale destruction along | :55:18. | :55:24. | |
that these costs, President Obama seems generally to be getting a lot | :55:24. | :55:29. | |
of credit from voters for his handling of this. Yes, he does, and | :55:29. | :55:34. | |
you know, it is always a tough situation to step in. You do not | :55:34. | :55:37. | |
want to turn this into a politically charged situation, and | :55:37. | :55:42. | |
they did, I think, a pretty nimble job of not making it look like they | :55:42. | :55:45. | |
were being opportunistic. He also got the advantage with the clock | :55:45. | :55:49. | |
ticking down, he had already started to turn the momentum back | :55:49. | :55:53. | |
in his direction, and then a pause button was hit on the election | :55:53. | :55:57. | |
because nobody felt like they could campaign, and certainly not | :55:57. | :56:02. | |
campaign aggressively. Bronwen, where do think we are at now, with | :56:02. | :56:07. | |
just a few days to go and things looking very close? Well, I think | :56:07. | :56:12. | |
Barack Obama is probably just ahead. I am one of many watching it, but | :56:12. | :56:18. | |
if you look at Ohio, which a month and a half ago was six points for | :56:18. | :56:22. | |
Obama, then it went down to pretty much neck and neck, it has opened | :56:22. | :56:26. | |
up again. That is one of the key states were this will be determined. | :56:26. | :56:30. | |
There are signs pointing in his favour, and the storm has been | :56:30. | :56:35. | |
great for him, but it is close. Kevin Kammer how do you think it is | :56:35. | :56:38. | |
going to impact on British politics? Politicians here are | :56:38. | :56:42. | |
watching very closely. David Cameron, you would think, the | :56:42. | :56:46. | |
Conservatives are allied with the Republicans, but he gets on very | :56:46. | :56:50. | |
well with Obama, and he would be quite happy with business as usual | :56:50. | :56:54. | |
in the White House, clearly that is the position of the Liberal | :56:54. | :57:03. | |
Democrats and Labour. You cannot read much -- the political class -- | :57:04. | :57:07. | |
you cannot read much of the American situation back into the UK, | :57:07. | :57:11. | |
but the political class would be reasonably happy with Obama still | :57:11. | :57:18. | |
in the White Horse. -- the White House. Mitt Romney's visited just | :57:18. | :57:22. | |
before the Olympics was not a great moment of try to set up foreign | :57:22. | :57:27. | |
policy, because he speculated that the might not have been up to snuff | :57:27. | :57:33. | |
and then everything went fantastic. -- the Olympic security plan might | :57:33. | :57:39. | |
not have been up to snuff and then everything went fantastic. The | :57:40. | :57:44. | |
Obama campaign has effectively drawn a line under that now, from | :57:44. | :57:50. | |
the second debate forwards, in many of the swing states, we see the | :57:51. | :57:56. | |
toss-up states trending back to Obama. And the last bits of | :57:56. | :57:59. | |
frenetic campaigning are going on now. Thank you very much for | :57:59. | :58:04. | |
joining as. Just time before we go to find out the answer to the quiz, | :58:04. | :58:10. | |
and the answer was... The question, of course, was which stuffed animal | :58:10. | :58:16. | |
has William Hague spent �10,000 renovating? Badger, Stagg, anaconda | :58:17. | :58:23. | |
or meerkat? I'm sure you have done your homework. You have not got | :58:23. | :58:26. | |
Eric Pickles on that list! answer... It is the snake, isn't | :58:26. | :58:33. | |
it? It is indeed the snake, in fact we can see it there. Extraordinary, | :58:33. | :58:37. | |
the amount of money that was spent, this was a gift to one of the | :58:37. | :58:43. | |
foreign embassies. On that note... Priorities, that is what politics | :58:43. | :58:48. |