02/11/2012 Daily Politics


02/11/2012

Carole Walker with the top political stories of the day, guests include cabinet office minister Ken Clarke.


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Transcript


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Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics. Ken Clarke says his plans

:00:40.:00:42.

for private court hearings in sensitive intelligence cases are

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vital for national security. The former Justice Secretary will be

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here in around five minutes time. The schools exams body for England

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says teachers are under too much pressure to give generous marks for

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coursework. But says the decision to raise the pass threshold for

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this summer's English GCSEs was right. With just under two weeks to

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go before voters in England and Wales elect 43 new police and crime

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commissioners, we'll ask five hopeful candidates how policing

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will change. And we are in the final straight of the US

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:01:28.:01:28.

presidential race. Will the winner All that in the next hour. With me

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for the whole programme today are the editor of Prospect magazine

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Bronwen Maddox. And Kevin Maguire of the Daily Mirror. Welcome to you

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:01:44.:01:48.

both. Thanks run much indeed for joining us. Let's start with a

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report, we blame the examiners, exam board, and now they are

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blaming the teachers. Yes, the OFQUAL report, some children are

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marked down and others are marked up up because teachers are over-

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generous and it's a complete mess because you have got to defend the

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integrity of the exam system. If teachers are under such pressure to

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get a good result and are marking up their own pupils, we have to

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bring in outside examiners. I personally think, continuous

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assessment and working through your course than a memory test at the

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end, but it's got to be done fairly. What do you make of this? They

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shouldn't have changed the standards between January and June.

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It's absolutely right they are outraged but what did anybody

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expect? I agree with you. Coursework is a better way of

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testing knowledge. Schools are under enormous pressure to deliver

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results and teachers will mark up to the limit. You need a much

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clearer sense of what is being assessed. It does need sorting out

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a but this is not the world's biggest problem. Let's have a

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listen to the OFQUAL chief- executive. She has been talking a

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bit more about this and the findings of this latest report.

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They are not cheating. Let me be clear, they are not cheating and

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they are not making up marks, not at all. They are putting in an

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invidious position, where they have to put a mark on a piece of

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creative writing. You and I would look at that and there is no doubt

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we would choose a different Mark because there's not, in a sense, a

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writer mark. The problem is, because of the pressure they are

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under, there is a natural tendency to be as optimistic as possible

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looking at that and give it the best possible mark, because you

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want that for your student, of course you do. And you wanted for

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your school, as well. If there enough teachers are moving in that

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direction, marking up to the limit, and there is a 6% tolerance, that

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ruins the national picture if we are not careful and we have

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evidence of that this year, so it's a very caution retail. For us, for

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teachers and for those who design qualifications and set the

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accountability measures, as well. You can understand a problem that

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teachers want to do the best by their pupils, want to try and hit

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the right sort of scores for their own schools. She has put it

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perfectly if rather politely. Teachers are going to give the best

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marks they can. It helps their children and school. The problem is,

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we need an external assessment. Kevin is quite right. The doesn't

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this make the case for what Michael Gove is talking about, let's have a

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less coursework and more in the final exam which is marked by

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independent examiners? Yes, in that sense, it does, and I think that

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looks like cheating if you're going to give your own pupils the most

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generous marks you can have. It is optimism. The but, I sat through

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the generation where you had those end-of-year exams force of that's

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what you did and how you got your GCSEs and A-levels. I watched my

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own children going through, doing coursework all the way through, and

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they have much better understanding of the subject they are doing. Yes,

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you can have a memory test, but it does not really test your grasp of

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the subject. It test your ability to learn a few facts and put them

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down in a couple of hours. This is a debate which will run and run but

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we will leave it there. Now it is time for our daily quiz and a

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question for today is, William Hague is confirmed the Foreign

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Office has spent �10,000 renovating a stuffed animal kept on display in

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the Government department. But which animal is it? A badger.

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stag. An anaconda snake. Or a meerkat? At the end of the show

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:06:20.:06:20.

Kevin and Bronwen will give us the correct answer. You could not make

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it up. I like the idea of the Anaconda. Almost exactly two years

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ago, the Government paid out millions of pounds in compensation

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to several former Guantanamo detainees who accused British

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intelligence of colluding in their capture and rendition. Ministers

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said they had no option but to settle because fighting the cases

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would have risked exposing state secrets in open court. In response,

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the then Justice Secretary, Ken Clarke, came up with controversial

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plans to allow such cases to be heard in secret. The proposals are

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included in the Justice and Security Bill, and are designed to

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allow the intelligence agencies to defend themselves in court without

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sensitive information being made public. Ken Clarke says it's a

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golden opportunity for sensible reform and hit out at critics who

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want to derail his plans. If the plans become law, so-called closed

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material procedures would mean judges could consider sensitive

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evidence in private in front of security-vetted lawyers. But

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critics say the Bill goes against the principle of open justice. In

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September, the Liberal Democrat conference voted against the Bill,

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arguing that ministers would be able to cover up any potentially

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embarrassing information. But Ken Clarke says a judge, not a

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politician, would decide whether the information should be kept

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secret. Mr Clarke has been speaking this morning. Let's have a quick

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listen. In my career, I was in a lot of debate about national

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security issues. I have always been on the liberal side of the argument.

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So I am surprised to find myself sponsoring a Bill which critics of

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named, my secret court Bill. I have never been naive about the role of

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the security and intelligence agencies go through, but I want

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them to be able to be able to defend themselves and be more

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accountable to the courts and to Parliament. And Ken Clarke is here

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now. Thank you for joining us having moved on of course to your

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new role, but you're still overseeing this. Yes, I'm still a

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minister in charge of this bill. The Lib Dem conference as voted

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against it, Labour are not satisfied with the assurances that

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you have given. Are you going to manage to get this Bill through

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Parliament? I think so because I think they on the wrong side of the

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:09:00.:09:00.

argument, saying that. They are conspiracy mongering. They think

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there is a snag some were. We are not taking into secret session

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anything which is public at the moment. But you cannot have spies

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giving evidence about national intelligence in open court.

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Sometimes the whole claim, like in Guantanamo Bay, turns on this

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intelligence evidence. The judge will hear that but only in a closed

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session, special advocates will challenge it on behalf of the

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defendant, but, at the moment, you can't try these cases for for what

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happens, the Government puts his hands up, says it can't give the

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evidence because it's to dangers in open court and we pay millions of

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pounds worth of compensation. I would like a judge to hear all the

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evidence and I would be interested in the judgement of a British judge

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to see whether he or she are poles it falls up it's a dangerous

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precedent. How are you going to make sure that wants to establish

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these secret courts, they won't be tampered with? The Liberty,

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according to them, you wouldn't be able to investigate crowd control

:10:10.:10:20.
:10:20.:10:21.

at Hillsborough. Or... It is Humphrey staff. The quality and

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Human Rights Commission say they are incompatible with the common

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law right to a fair trial. It's not an open justice of the ordinary

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kind. It's only in recent years anybody bringing a civil claim it

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turns on intelligence evidence. We have to protect the public, sources.

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We need spies in these dangerous times but they can be accountable

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to the court so long as the judge can hear it without the press, and

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the public, anybody who wants to come in, the other parties. At the

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moment, there is no justice because we have silence and we have drafted

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this bill very carefully, to answer these fanciful conspiracy theories.

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You have said it will be a judge who will decide whether or not a

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case is heard. Labour and some Lib Dem peers are saying that is simply

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not sufficiently strongly put into the legislation. They are not happy

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with a safeguards. It is a slightly knee-jerk reaction. They can't

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bring themselves to acknowledge that what they are back to rating

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is the status quo. Noble is complained about what we do at the

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moment, which has held it back from court altogether and just pay up,

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but faced with a positive change, I don't know, they can't bring

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themselves to accept this is going to be an improvement for reasonable

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citizens. You can't hear it in open court. Let's solve that problem,

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not just by saying, when it's dangerous. In future this might be

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taken into other things. I'm against that. The bill makes clear

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national security. The average British judge will want to only

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keeps secret things which would endanger the country. Let me talk

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more widely about justice. You are still looking after this particular

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bill. When Chris Grayling was appointed in your place, he was

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widely portrayed as a new and much tougher man taking over this very

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difficult Prix. Do you think that there is a change of policy, change

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of emphasis, direction? Or is at a new man doing the same job? The you

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do get policy changes after a reshuffle. Sometimes quite dramatic.

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Actually, Chris has not said anything yet which is not on the

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same lines as me,... Apart from his talk about giving greater powers to

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people who tackle an intruder in their homes. You clearly we're not

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happy about that. You wrote a letter to him. I want to clarify

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the law on self-defence. People constantly campaign about it. The

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public are not certain and think they are not allowed to defend

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themselves and react as a reasonable person would. They are

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terrified in their own homes, whatever. We're trying to reassure

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the campaigners it's all right. in a letter you wrote to her about

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this, he said he is set himself up for an unnecessarily damaging

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battle and heavyweight legal experts and the policy could easily

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backfire. That's what you made of the ideas he came up with at the

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Conservative Party conference. not flatly opposing it but I am

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warning him to be careful. I say don't oversell it because if you do,

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you will get into that difficulty. He is trying to do what I was

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trying to do, explain to people that the law understands that

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ordinary honours people, feeling in danger, threatened by an intruder,

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whatever, will pick up a kitchen knife. I used to make speeches

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myself that you could use whatever, people would understand of

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defending themselves. This is not the only change. He's already

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ditched one of your main ideas about reducing the prison

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population. One of his first statement was to say he's not

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interested in a wider effort to reduce the prison population and

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nurses getting rid of foreign nationals. I think it's up to the

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judges to decide. In order to set up this... You infuriated your

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party. He said up a media pastiche of the change which exaggerates the

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difference -- he set up. I never had a target of reducing prison

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populations. I expressed surprise it had exploded. One of the things

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I am concentrating on, reducing the reoffending rate, making prisons

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more sensible places to reform prisoners. Trying to get the number

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of crimes and victims down by turning few of them out to come

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back. We are making progress there. We need a more intelligent use of

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the prison system. I want to move on and talk about Europe because

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obviously it is being dominating the political agenda. I just want

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to... The British one fixation with Europe for the last 20 years.

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just the British. When we want to move away from the day-to-day

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politics, we always move on to Europe. Somebody who was there

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during the John Major years, you will remember, do you feel as

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though there's a sense of deja vu? Do you think your party is in

:16:07.:16:17.
:16:17.:16:17.

Oh, a sense that everybody gets into a flap, it is hard to

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understand what everybody meant in that debate, the Labour Party did

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not start from the same position as the people they were voting with.

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At a time of economic stringency, you cannot have the European budget

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rising when everybody is having to cut back public spending, and we

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have a strong position of going to, you know, get across to the other

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member states... The Prime Minister was defeated by Euro-sceptics

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teaming up with your political opponents. That is what happened

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under John Major. The Euro-sceptics were teaming up with the Labour

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Party, both United and advocating a position which is impracticable and

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cannot be achieved. That has a certain similarity as well, Arona

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the fears raised about the Maastricht treaty, and people

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should die of shame after the warnings they gave. -- I remember.

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The Prime Minister as a very strong negotiating position, and he is

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going to aim for a freeze, and he has a veto he can use if necessary

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and if it is justified. When you look at your party, when you look

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around the Cabinet table, do you feel rather lonely? Michael Gove is

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suggesting that we should have an in-out referendum, Iain Duncan

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Smith, Owen Paterson and so on. You feel that you are a lone figure

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around the Cabinet table? This coalition is even broader than the

:17:48.:17:53.

coalition government I have sat in before. The Conservative Party has

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always been a bit of a coalition! This government is working

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particularly satisfactorily, with I may say so, much better than the

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John Major Cabinet worked, precisely because we are men of

:18:05.:18:08.

affairs to get on with the practical solution. We do not sit

:18:08.:18:11.

around the Cabinet table having rehearsals of the old, old

:18:11.:18:17.

arguments about Europe. We all agreed that we have got to hold the

:18:17.:18:21.

European budget, the freeze is the real objective. I think it is the

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right objective, but I'm not sure the tactics have been right. Going

:18:25.:18:29.

back to the secret courts, rightly nicknamed, I think you are on the

:18:29.:18:34.

wrong side of the argument. Justice needs to be seen to be done. Times

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have always been dangerous, and these are fiercely democratic times,

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people are very disinclined to trust institutions, politicians,

:18:43.:18:50.

police, judges, and people intensely dislike that. You may be

:18:50.:18:53.

liberal by the standards of your own party, but not by the standards

:18:53.:19:00.

of Parliament or the country. think it is a slight... I just

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cannot get the people I usually agree with over the line to accept

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that this actually is going to allow more evidence to be heard by

:19:10.:19:13.

a church and allowed judgments to be given than at the moment when

:19:13.:19:18.

all you have his silence and money paid out. -- Hirta by a judge. You

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must accept, in all common sense, no country in the world is going to

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put its spies in the witness box to give open information about their

:19:28.:19:32.

intelligence, how they obtained it, what they believe is being done by

:19:32.:19:36.

people, how they collaborated with other agencies. We have to find

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some other way... We are running out of time, I want to give Kevin a

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quick... When you look around at Cabinet table, you do see allies

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and colleagues, the Liberal Democrats, five of them. You feel

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closer to them on the big issues than you do to the right of your

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own party? A lot of the divisions in Cabinet, they are not divisions,

:19:57.:20:02.

but when we debate things, it is not always on party lines. I mean,

:20:02.:20:07.

I think, my own personal opinion, and I tease them occasionally, one

:20:07.:20:11.

or two of the lead roles around the table of One nation Conservatives

:20:11.:20:15.

on the wrong side of the war by accident. -- of the Liberals. You

:20:15.:20:19.

can imagine how they come back at me! Vince Cable I have known since

:20:19.:20:26.

we were students. I do not think he ever expected to sit at the same

:20:26.:20:30.

Cabinet table as me, we are in national crisis, we have come

:20:30.:20:33.

together in the national interest, and this Cabinet works extremely

:20:33.:20:39.

well in deciding what we need to do and what is going to happen. The

:20:39.:20:41.

conservative property has improved since we stopped having wild

:20:41.:20:44.

theological debates and got on with the details of delivering what we

:20:44.:20:49.

need to. -- the Conservative Party. Ken Clarke, thank you very much

:20:49.:20:52.

indeed for joining us. In just under two weeks' time, voters

:20:52.:20:56.

across England and Wales will be asked to go to the polls to elect

:20:56.:21:01.

41 new police and crime commission has, but what exactly will they do?

:21:01.:21:08.

-- commissioners. Our reporter travelled to the United States

:21:08.:21:10.

before the hurricane to meet the former police commissioner of New

:21:10.:21:15.

York, Bill Bratton, who believes the commissioners can be as

:21:15.:21:24.

effective in cutting crime in the Armed and highly visible, following

:21:24.:21:27.

the September 11th attacks, security was stepped up on the

:21:28.:21:31.

streets, on the Subway and in the sky above New York. It may be

:21:31.:21:35.

partly due to the increased police presence that it is now one of the

:21:35.:21:38.

safest cities in the world, but it is also down to a concerted

:21:38.:21:42.

crackdown led by Michael Bloomberg in partnership with the city's

:21:42.:21:46.

appointed Police Commissioner. you look at the two decades of

:21:46.:21:53.

reduction in crime that we have had in New York City, about 80%, and

:21:53.:21:58.

hopefully that is what can happen in the UK. Violent crime in New

:21:58.:22:02.

York has been falling since the early 1990s. Lasers like this,

:22:02.:22:08.

Union Square, was once considered a no-go zone after dark but it now

:22:08.:22:13.

has eight police presence and is considered much safer. New York is

:22:13.:22:18.

now unrecognisable from the gritty city of the 1980s, when it was the

:22:18.:22:21.

crime capital of the US. Tough action was needed, and Bill Bratton

:22:21.:22:26.

was brought in as the city's police commissioner. He quickly became

:22:26.:22:28.

famous for his zero-tolerance policy and says the UK can learn

:22:28.:22:31.

from the decision to give more local political control to the

:22:31.:22:39.

police. It is not a panacea, not a perfect system, but it does ensure

:22:39.:22:46.

that police do focus on local issues, what it is in the community

:22:46.:22:49.

that is creating fear. Criminologists say much of the

:22:49.:22:52.

credit for the reduction in crime must go to the commissioner. Until

:22:52.:22:57.

the early 1990s, the assumption was crime was driven by the economy, by

:22:57.:23:02.

inequality, by you name it, racism and poverty. Bill Bratton came in

:23:02.:23:08.

and said no, we are responsible, and we are going to start measuring

:23:08.:23:13.

results, and police commissioners should be held accountable by the

:23:13.:23:18.

public. While the commissioner has been credited with cutting crime,

:23:18.:23:21.

critics question whether there is a danger they may overstep their

:23:21.:23:28.

powers. There are stubborn pockets within the cities, and the police

:23:28.:23:32.

have concentrated a disproportionate number of patrol

:23:32.:23:35.

officers, and there are other residents who feel that the police

:23:35.:23:38.

have got a checkpoint attitudes towards those neighbourhoods.

:23:38.:23:42.

was the unrest which began in London and spread across England

:23:42.:23:46.

during the 2011 riots which all David Cameron turn to Bill Bratton

:23:46.:23:51.

for advice. He warns that those are elected as commissioners face tough

:23:51.:23:56.

challenges. There is so much happening in your country at this

:23:56.:24:00.

time, on the national level, the mandated cuts in levels of service.

:24:00.:24:06.

At the local level now, there is significant, significant change in

:24:06.:24:13.

how policing is delivered. And it is all happening so fast. So my

:24:13.:24:20.

suggestion would be, basically, do not expect too much early on.

:24:20.:24:23.

month's elections will see the biggest change since modern

:24:23.:24:27.

policing began. Despite differences in the systems, Bill Bratton

:24:27.:24:30.

believes the crime-fighting solutions that have worked in New

:24:30.:24:34.

York, particularly the role of a strong commissioner, can be just as

:24:34.:24:39.

effective across England and Wales. Louise Stewart reporting, and we

:24:39.:24:42.

have been joined by five candidates standing in different regions,

:24:43.:24:47.

Simon Spencer, standing for the Conservatives in Derbyshire,

:24:47.:24:50.

currently deputy leader of Derbyshire County Council. Former

:24:50.:24:53.

Labour minister Jane Kennedy is standing in Merseyside and joined

:24:53.:24:58.

us from Liverpool. From Bristol, Lib Dem councillor and former

:24:58.:25:04.

police constable Pete Levy is standing in Avon and Somerset. UK

:25:04.:25:08.

and Pete MEP Godfrey Bloom is standing in Humberside. And Mick

:25:08.:25:11.

Thwaites is standing as an independent in Essex. Welcome to

:25:11.:25:18.

all of you. Let me start with you, as you are here with me in the

:25:19.:25:23.

studio, Simon, this idea has been one that the Conservative Party has

:25:23.:25:27.

pushed through. What real difference do you think it will

:25:27.:25:33.

make, having these police commissioners of whatever colour

:25:33.:25:37.

there and overseeing the local police priorities? Well, I have

:25:37.:25:41.

always been a great fan of this policy and it brings a new level of

:25:41.:25:44.

accountability and transparency to policing that we have never seen in

:25:44.:25:47.

the past. I would say that to understand what we're doing, we

:25:47.:25:50.

need to understand what we have in place at the moment, and from that

:25:50.:25:54.

point of view police authorities have been in place for 17 years.

:25:54.:25:57.

They are expensive, in my opinion. They have worked, but this change

:25:58.:26:01.

will bring a new level of accountability and transparency,

:26:01.:26:04.

and how that will work is that it will be the role of the

:26:04.:26:08.

Commissioner to articulate the views of the public to the chief

:26:08.:26:10.

constable without politicising the role of the frontline police

:26:10.:26:17.

officer. Jane Kennedy, if I can bring you in as someone who has

:26:17.:26:21.

been a government minister, how do you think these police

:26:21.:26:24.

commissioners are actually going to be better at reflecting public

:26:24.:26:29.

priorities? Surely we have a Home Secretary and other ministers who

:26:29.:26:35.

already do that. I mean, clearly there will be the election itself,

:26:35.:26:39.

will forge a very close relationship between the

:26:39.:26:43.

Commissioner and the electorate. Now, we are all worried about a low

:26:43.:26:47.

turnout, but whatever the turnout, I imagine most commissioners will

:26:47.:26:50.

feel themselves to be very close the accountable to the communities

:26:50.:26:54.

and will want to speak for them, as I will, if I'm elected for

:26:54.:26:58.

Merseyside. Now, I like the idea of the bill Bratton approach to

:26:58.:27:05.

policing, where you... It is a kind of problem-solving approach, and if

:27:05.:27:09.

I were elected, it is the kind of approach I would bring to crime-

:27:09.:27:13.

fighting, particularly in a time when we are seeing savage cuts to

:27:13.:27:17.

police budgets. We are going to have to examine every aspect of

:27:17.:27:20.

crime and crime trends and engage with everybody who has got anything

:27:21.:27:26.

to do with fighting crime. Mick Thwaites, if I can bring you in,

:27:26.:27:31.

the thing that is right? Is that the way that this is going to work?

:27:31.:27:36.

-- do you think. It has never been any different. We have got to work

:27:36.:27:39.

with all the communities and agencies, local authorities,

:27:39.:27:43.

voluntary sector, charities. We need to engage everybody in the

:27:43.:27:46.

process of delivering better life for people across our towns and

:27:46.:27:51.

villages. That is about reducing crime, reducing antisocial

:27:51.:27:54.

behaviour, and the police themselves cannot do this alone. So

:27:54.:27:59.

that is going to be the key task for the commissioner, to bring very

:28:00.:28:04.

diverse communities together, many organisations together, and have

:28:04.:28:08.

one Focus, which is delivering crime reduction and delivering the

:28:08.:28:11.

reduction in antisocial behaviour across a very large geographical

:28:11.:28:17.

areas. Godfrey Bloom, if I can bring you in here, isn't there a

:28:17.:28:21.

danger, though, that instead of a senior police officer looking at

:28:21.:28:26.

the same, this should be the priority for the whole area, that

:28:26.:28:30.

these police commissioners are going to find themselves swayed by

:28:30.:28:33.

perhaps particularly vocal groups of residents in one part of their

:28:33.:28:39.

patch who have got a particular concern? Yes, it is a danger, and I

:28:39.:28:43.

think this is why the electorate needs to look very closely at who

:28:43.:28:47.

is standing, and I would suggest not to worry whether they are

:28:47.:28:51.

Labour, Conservative or UKIP, look at the individuals and see if they

:28:51.:28:55.

can handle those problems, see if they can handle those pressures

:28:55.:29:01.

that they will be, prioritise very big budgets, 3,000 people, 4,000

:29:01.:29:07.

people working for an authority. This is a very, very big job, a

:29:07.:29:10.

very new job, and I'm not altogether sure yet that folly --

:29:11.:29:15.

that people fully appreciate that. Mick Thwaites, if I can come back

:29:15.:29:19.

you, as somebody who has worked in the police force, do you think

:29:20.:29:26.

there is a danger about decisions on policing being politicised?

:29:26.:29:29.

There is always the danger when this concept was first discussed

:29:29.:29:33.

several years ago. Chief constables will be worried that their

:29:33.:29:38.

operational independence, the control of policing and a daily

:29:38.:29:42.

basis, where to put the cops, on which street corners, which crimes

:29:42.:29:47.

to investigate, he will investigate what and with what resources, it

:29:47.:29:52.

has always been a huge risk around one individual having immense power

:29:52.:29:57.

over the police. I am not... I do not find that so difficult, because

:29:57.:30:01.

very quickly the relationship between the chief and the police

:30:01.:30:04.

commissioner will clearly, each one will know where their art in the

:30:05.:30:10.

very early stages. There may well be a clear protocol that sets up

:30:10.:30:13.

the ground the commissioner takes and the ground the chief constable

:30:13.:30:17.

takes, but in some instances that boundary may be crossed, and that

:30:17.:30:25.

Isn't there a danger that the public simply don't understand how

:30:25.:30:29.

this is going to work and, in a sense, it won't work unless the

:30:29.:30:34.

public get engaged and the signs are at the moment, they aren't.

:30:34.:30:38.

They had everything stacked against them. There would have thought you

:30:38.:30:47.

would have an election as important at this in November. Things are

:30:47.:30:51.

stacked up against the public and giving to the point about people

:30:51.:30:54.

looking beyond the party label but at the individual, I agree with

:30:54.:30:59.

that, however, it is impossible in this particular election for most

:30:59.:31:04.

of us to communicate with the electorate. In Merseyside, there

:31:04.:31:08.

are 8 million voters. People are definitely going to be relying on

:31:08.:31:12.

the party label and if we have a very low turnout, which we fear,

:31:12.:31:17.

then it is going to be quite a risk the outcome. A number of us are

:31:17.:31:21.

anxious that people shouldn't take this election for granted. We urge

:31:21.:31:26.

the public to get involved. It is a very important and powerful role

:31:26.:31:31.

and, yes, the individual that does that job is very important, so we

:31:31.:31:35.

urge the public to use whatever means they can and we are doing our

:31:35.:31:39.

best to communicate with them. Peter Levey, do you have concerns

:31:39.:31:44.

about how this is going to work? You were with the Wiltshire

:31:45.:31:49.

Constabulary. You have been in the Royal Military Police. Having seen

:31:49.:31:54.

it on that side of the fence, are you concerned about how this is

:31:54.:31:59.

going to work? There still seems to be huge amounts of scope for

:31:59.:32:03.

different interpretations of rules and places for these Police

:32:03.:32:07.

Commissioner's, pursuing a specific project once they are in and

:32:08.:32:14.

elected, they can do pretty much what they want. Yes, I think in an

:32:14.:32:19.

area as diverse as Avon and Somerset, we have huge rural areas,

:32:19.:32:24.

urban areas as well, and there is a genuine fear amongst residents that

:32:24.:32:28.

resources will be sucked into areas like Bristol and rural crime will

:32:28.:32:35.

be forgotten. Crime has dropped in the UK, detection rates are

:32:35.:32:42.

improving but that is effective policing and partnership localised

:32:42.:32:45.

operating. I think whoever becomes the police and crime commissioner,

:32:45.:32:49.

they need to engage with those people, create the most effective

:32:49.:32:54.

lines of communication with the residence so we know what they want,

:32:54.:33:00.

and where to effectively put resources. Simon, this has been an

:33:00.:33:07.

important policy for your party. But they don't seem to have done

:33:07.:33:12.

enough to infuse the public. Surely it is only through public

:33:12.:33:17.

engagement that this idea will work? The other candidates are

:33:17.:33:27.
:33:27.:33:28.

doing their best across the country. Could more a been done nationally?

:33:28.:33:33.

What I would say is the role is all about engagement with the public

:33:33.:33:39.

and articulating their views. We have 4,000 voluntary organisations,

:33:39.:33:45.

some very good statutory bodies delivering superb services and

:33:45.:33:48.

working in partnership will be an integral part of the job. From my

:33:48.:33:54.

point of view, it's extremely important whoever gets this job,

:33:54.:33:59.

and I have a background as a firefighter, I have run my own

:33:59.:34:05.

business, and my department in the council is similar to the police

:34:05.:34:10.

authority budget, so what I would say is we have got to work with

:34:10.:34:14.

everybody and the rule everybody's views together and understand them.

:34:14.:34:18.

The key thing is going to be the personalities of those people who

:34:18.:34:23.

are elected. The public will have a chance eventually to vote them out,

:34:23.:34:28.

but, in the meantime, it's an awful lot of power to put in the hands of

:34:28.:34:32.

one person in an area where we have not had those sorts of figures in

:34:32.:34:38.

the past. I entirely agree. I wouldn't necessarily start from

:34:38.:34:41.

here, so the electorate must be sure they elect somebody who

:34:41.:34:46.

understands budgets, with the reformed background, military,

:34:46.:34:53.

police, somebody who understands what is involved and can bring an

:34:54.:34:59.

interpretation of statistics to it. The HMRC has sent us a huge amount

:34:59.:35:03.

of statistics, difficult to read, and is the individual capable of

:35:03.:35:08.

reading it? It takes lot of experience to do this sort of thing.

:35:08.:35:14.

The thank you very much. Kevin, do you think this will work? I think

:35:14.:35:19.

it has failed before at the start because one in five have to vote

:35:20.:35:23.

for it and we have not brought for the candidates the Government

:35:23.:35:29.

thought. The real test will be the next wave of elections, when you

:35:29.:35:33.

get a mushroom of extra candidate and people think it's worthwhile to

:35:33.:35:38.

come out and vote. If you're a tough on the cause of crime, you

:35:38.:35:43.

could be a huge Waterfront, and be able to going the social issues,

:35:43.:35:47.

mental health issues, and it's a big platform for whoever wins in

:35:47.:35:54.

each area. I'm all for it for the obvious complaints people have up

:35:54.:35:59.

with it, worries about populism, I think it's a good idea. Eventually,

:35:59.:36:05.

it will be very popular. OK, thank you very much and thanks to all the

:36:05.:36:08.

candidates in various different parts for joining us. This week

:36:08.:36:11.

we've seen the issue of Europe causing splits and arguments in the

:36:11.:36:14.

Conservative party, with 53 eurosceptic MPs defying a three

:36:14.:36:17.

line government whip and joining Labour to vote for a cut in the EU

:36:17.:36:21.

budget. But it's also posing tricky questions for pro-Europeans like

:36:21.:36:29.

what should Britain's relationship with the EU look like? Last night

:36:29.:36:32.

on Question Time, David Miliband was asked to explain why Labour

:36:32.:36:36.

supported an increase in the EU budget in 2005. But are now calling

:36:36.:36:39.

for a cut? He backed his brother, saying that asking Brussels to cut

:36:39.:36:47.

spending doesn't mean Labour is backing away from Europe.

:36:47.:36:51.

We negotiated in 2005, for the first time ever, instead of Britain

:36:51.:36:54.

paying a three times as much contribution as France, we would

:36:54.:36:59.

pay the same as France. We negotiated the enlargement of the

:36:59.:37:02.

EU which a Conservative Party and the Lib Dems both supported and the

:37:02.:37:06.

budget went up to pay for the historic enlargement of the

:37:06.:37:14.

European Union. Let me finish the point. The world has changed since

:37:14.:37:18.

2005-6. We've had a global financial crisis and we need to cut

:37:18.:37:21.

the deficit at home and we also need to make sure that we reduce

:37:21.:37:25.

spending in Europe as well, and I think there has been a real problem

:37:25.:37:29.

for pro-Europeans like me. We have seemed like we always wanted more

:37:29.:37:33.

spending. We were soft-headed about more spending, but what you have

:37:33.:37:37.

got is a repositioning in the Labour Party not to go from being

:37:37.:37:41.

pro-Europe to anti-Europe, but to take on, this idea that to be pro-

:37:42.:37:46.

European you're always for more spending. That was David Miliband

:37:46.:37:49.

at last night. And we've been joined by Will Straw who works at

:37:49.:37:52.

the IPPR think tank. And Katinka Barisch, deputy director of the

:37:52.:37:56.

Centre for European Reform. Thank you both very much indeed for

:37:56.:38:05.

joining us. You have got a new report out this week saying that we

:38:06.:38:09.

should have an inner out referendum. That's right, we think a referendum

:38:09.:38:13.

has become increasingly inevitable. When you look at the things David

:38:13.:38:17.

Cameron has been saying about wanting to go to Europe, to try to

:38:17.:38:21.

get his repatriation of powers and then take it to the British people.

:38:21.:38:24.

We think it is incredibly unrealistic, we don't think he will

:38:24.:38:29.

get it, and if there was a referendum, anything other than the

:38:29.:38:31.

fundamental question, we think a lot of people would be very upset

:38:31.:38:37.

by it. People would say you are not asking the right questions. In

:38:37.:38:41.

Scotland, David Cameron things we have to take on the fundamental

:38:41.:38:44.

questions so we have to do the same for Europe and that would make

:38:44.:38:48.

people pro-European, like myself, make the case to the public why

:38:48.:38:53.

been in is better than leaving. Until now, people pushing for this

:38:54.:38:57.

type of referendum tend to be Euro- sceptics, people who ultimately

:38:57.:39:01.

think it would be good idea if we had at least the weapon of being

:39:01.:39:05.

able to threaten to leave the European Union, but you would argue

:39:05.:39:13.

firmly on the pro-European case for staying in Europe? The that's right.

:39:13.:39:15.

People all around the country are have in this discussion. It's time

:39:15.:39:20.

to do take it from Westminster to the public. That would then

:39:20.:39:24.

discovered people in civil society, politicians, and a pot newspapers

:39:24.:39:28.

to decide which side of the debate they want to be on, because we've

:39:28.:39:31.

not had a positive case for Europe are made by those groups for 30

:39:31.:39:37.

years. Do you think he has a case for saying that we need to get

:39:37.:39:42.

these arguments out there and have a proper debate about it? I agree

:39:42.:39:45.

with absolutely everything he says under the proviso that if

:39:45.:39:49.

politicians start to make a positive case for Europe, how much

:39:49.:39:54.

time have they got, and would be enough? I've been in this country

:39:54.:39:59.

for 20 years and I have seen the media and politicians drip feeding

:39:59.:40:03.

people negative news about Europe. Do we really believe that a bunch

:40:03.:40:07.

of politicians can turn this around in a matter of months, few years

:40:07.:40:12.

even? In a campaign situation, when people are very cautious about what

:40:12.:40:16.

they believe and what they don't believe, and I think it's a highly

:40:16.:40:23.

risky strategy because people would find themselves outside the EU in a

:40:23.:40:27.

weak position to renegotiate the deal with the rest of the Europeans.

:40:27.:40:33.

Are you worried about having an in and out referendum because the pro-

:40:33.:40:38.

Europeans appear to be losing the arguments? Because there hasn't

:40:38.:40:41.

been a proper debate about what is at stake here, the Euro-sceptics

:40:41.:40:46.

are not making a very genuine argument because Britain actually

:40:46.:40:50.

gains quite significantly from being in the single market and

:40:50.:40:54.

within the European Union, which is a big block of countries in a

:40:55.:40:58.

globalised world. It needs that membership so I don't think the

:40:58.:41:03.

debate is properly started. Interesting that Labour joined

:41:03.:41:07.

forces with the Euro-sceptics. Do you think Ed Miliband is trying to

:41:07.:41:11.

reposition itself? I think there was a degree of opportunism in what

:41:11.:41:19.

he did undoubtedly but European this question, 3% of MPs know we're

:41:19.:41:24.

going down that road a. David Cameron will set out a referendum

:41:24.:41:28.

soon and Labour will match him in their manifesto and there is a

:41:28.:41:31.

debate among the Shadow Cabinet about how Labour should approach

:41:31.:41:36.

this. Jim Murphy, I've heard her argue for going for an in out

:41:36.:41:41.

referendum like in Scotland, do you want independence or not? Go

:41:41.:41:45.

straight to the crux. I expect a referendum like that is the only

:41:45.:41:50.

one which could be run by pro- Europeans. Don't mess around about

:41:50.:41:53.

renegotiations on this and that. Just say to people, do you want to

:41:53.:42:00.

be in or out? In 1975, Harold Wilson had a referendum, 2-1 to

:42:00.:42:05.

stay in the Common Market. In 1983, Labour's manifesto, let's pull out

:42:05.:42:10.

of the Common Market. The Prime Minister has said he might allow a

:42:10.:42:14.

referendum after the next general election. Do you think we are

:42:15.:42:19.

heading to the stage where that is going to happen? He has been pushed

:42:19.:42:23.

towards that. I think it would be suicidal for the pro-European camp

:42:23.:42:31.

to push for one right now. Europe is in crisis. The eurozone, part of

:42:31.:42:35.

it is in flames. No-one knows what's going to happen to that.

:42:35.:42:39.

After the next election. You can't stop these things once they start

:42:39.:42:45.

rolling. At you couldn't do it now. You've got to wait for the eurozone

:42:45.:42:53.

crisis to come to an end. That gets lost in the noise. If you're

:42:53.:42:56.

calling for an in and out referendum, because you hope it

:42:56.:43:03.

will bring out a big level of advocacy for Europe. It would be a

:43:03.:43:10.

disaster. Do you think that there is a danger that this increasing

:43:10.:43:14.

discussion about an in out referendum is destabilising in

:43:14.:43:20.

terms of Britain's position within the EU? Yes, the Continent are

:43:20.:43:25.

getting very concerned about what's going on here. Also what they see

:43:25.:43:29.

as a debate in Britain is not necessarily realistic, the idea

:43:29.:43:33.

anybody in Europe is waiting for David Cameron to turn up with a

:43:33.:43:36.

list of powers he wants to take back to Britain, that's crazy.

:43:36.:43:41.

Europe is in an existential crisis and are not in the mood to talk

:43:41.:43:45.

about the Fisheries Policy. Do you think the Labour Party is now

:43:45.:43:49.

moving towards a position where it will call for an in out referendum

:43:49.:43:54.

in the run-up to the next election? There is a debate taking place in

:43:54.:43:59.

the Labour Party at the moment and IPPR feeds into the debate around

:43:59.:44:02.

Westminster and we think it's the right thing to do because if you

:44:02.:44:06.

don't do it, these pressures just build up and build up and it could

:44:06.:44:11.

make the referendum what happens even worse for the pro-Europeans.

:44:11.:44:20.

Thank you all very much indeed for joining us. And some news just

:44:20.:44:23.

breaking in the last hour relating to the former Labour minister Denis

:44:23.:44:26.

MacShane. Chris Mason can tell us more. This is a findings from the

:44:26.:44:32.

parliamentary authorities on his expenses. They've been written into

:44:32.:44:37.

his expenses during at 2005-eight. Their report has just been

:44:37.:44:41.

published in the last half an hour and it's very, very critical of his

:44:41.:44:47.

conduct. In short, they say he claimed for far more computers, his

:44:47.:44:53.

own use and for his office, than was legitimate. They say those

:44:53.:44:57.

claims were excessive. They also say there was a good number of

:44:57.:45:02.

claims submitted for work he said he was doing for the European

:45:02.:45:07.

Policy Institute connected to a long-term policy, the issue of

:45:07.:45:12.

European politics, he's a former Europe minister, but they say that

:45:12.:45:18.

those receipts and expenses were plainly intended to deceive. They

:45:18.:45:21.

outlined the European policies did not stack up as an independent

:45:21.:45:27.

organisation separate from Mr MacShane. They were almost the same

:45:27.:45:31.

thing. There is also strong criticism for how he handled

:45:31.:45:36.

himself during this investigation, saying he withdrew co-operation

:45:36.:45:41.

during part of their inquiry and the whole process in which she put

:45:41.:45:44.

together is expenses was not anywhere near the standards they

:45:44.:45:50.

were hoping for from an MP. So, very, very strong criticism. A

:45:50.:45:54.

recommendation he should be suspended as an MP for 12 months.

:45:54.:45:58.

Labour have responded immediately and withdrawn of the whip from Mr

:45:58.:46:02.

McShane. He says he is saddened and shocked by the decision and are

:46:02.:46:12.
:46:12.:46:13.

deeply regrets how he behaved. Day-in, day-out, we see

:46:13.:46:16.

correspondents like Chris and myself standing outside and inside

:46:16.:46:20.

Parliament, reporting the daily events on the news, but soon we

:46:20.:46:23.

could start to see the iconic buildings crop up on the big screen.

:46:23.:46:26.

In an effort to raise more money, Parliamentary All authorities are

:46:26.:46:32.

considering open up the buildings to let the film crews in, for a

:46:32.:46:37.

price, of course. Whitehall has been used in many movies, not least

:46:37.:46:40.

in the new James Bond film, Skyfall, and we will speak to the

:46:40.:46:44.

supervising location manager on the latest instalment of 007, but first

:46:44.:46:54.
:46:54.:47:20.

Well, we have been joined by James Grant, a film locations manager who

:47:20.:47:23.

worked on Skyfall and managed to get some parts of Westminster

:47:23.:47:28.

closed to traffic to allow filming to take place. Welcome to the Daily

:47:28.:47:33.

Politics, thank you for joining us. Thank you. Talas first novel, was

:47:33.:47:37.

it very difficult? I have to say, I have not seen the film yet, but

:47:38.:47:42.

there is some filming in locations around Westminster, how difficult

:47:42.:47:47.

was that? Westminster featured very strongly. We were filming on

:47:47.:47:52.

Whitehall itself, we were on Vauxhall Bridge and what-have-you,

:47:53.:47:57.

and we closed Millbank. It is a main character for the film, and I

:47:57.:48:04.

actually started working on it from July of last year, with a team of

:48:04.:48:06.

location managers and assistance and what have the working our way

:48:06.:48:11.

through the script, seeing what was needed, and then approaching

:48:11.:48:14.

Westminster Special Events Office, TfL, the Houses of Parliament and

:48:14.:48:21.

so on, to try and achieve what we needed. What about the idea that is

:48:21.:48:25.

now being considered, that we might actually be allowed to film inside,

:48:25.:48:29.

outside, on top of the Houses of Parliament? Is that an appealing

:48:29.:48:33.

prospect question I hit it would be great. It is a lot easier for the

:48:33.:48:39.

factual programmes to get inside the Houses of Parliament. Because

:48:39.:48:44.

of our size, crews can be 100 or 200 people, high days and holidays,

:48:44.:48:47.

but to get inside the houses of parliament in-cell and Big Ben

:48:47.:48:54.

would be fantastic. -- itself. Presumably these matters are very

:48:54.:48:57.

complicated, getting the right permission from the right people,

:48:57.:49:00.

making sure you have not got groups of tourists walking across the set

:49:00.:49:05.

at the vital moment. Yes, logistically it takes time, and it

:49:05.:49:10.

is a creative process. You go to them with a plan, and the planned

:49:10.:49:14.

changes, and so you have to keep going back and saying, what we want

:49:14.:49:18.

to do now is this... The individuals you are dealing with

:49:18.:49:20.

are usually very excited but they are not used to those changes

:49:20.:49:25.

taking place. Do you fall back on lookalikes and mock-ups? We quite

:49:25.:49:31.

often see the door of Number Ten Downing Street, don't we? Indeed.

:49:31.:49:34.

Sometimes they build it, which is not very good for me as a location

:49:34.:49:38.

manager, because it goes back to a studio, I am not very happy about

:49:38.:49:45.

that! If not, things like Downing Street, you end up going to a local

:49:45.:49:48.

double, John Adam Street, you can make that look like Number Ten

:49:48.:49:54.

quite easily. Kevin, do think it would be a good thing, good for the

:49:54.:49:57.

Westminster World to feature a bit more highly perhaps in some of

:49:57.:50:03.

these very high profile films? would love to see the Queen, and a

:50:03.:50:07.

big Opening Ceremony star, parachuting into Prime Minister's

:50:07.:50:11.

questions. It is a fantastic building and it will cost hundreds

:50:11.:50:16.

of millions to put it right. If you can make a movie money, fantastic.

:50:16.:50:20.

As long as it is not a late-night dodgy movie on the Speaker's chair,

:50:20.:50:25.

it is fine. The downside is for Manchester's Town Hall, because

:50:25.:50:30.

it's wonderful sweeping staircases often double as the House of

:50:31.:50:36.

Commons. There are lots of parts of Parliament that would make

:50:36.:50:40.

fantastic locations. There are some great shots in the film, the

:50:40.:50:49.

rooftops and the gutters. The MoD, yeah. On the roof of the MoD, that

:50:49.:50:57.

was a mind? -- that was a good one. We were thinking of the Thirty nine

:50:57.:51:01.

Steps, the guy hanging off one of the hands of the clock on Big Ben,

:51:01.:51:05.

that was mocked up. You have a scenario you would like to film in

:51:05.:51:10.

Westminster? It is just the chambers and corridors and

:51:10.:51:14.

staircases. I mean, I have never scouted it. I have scuppered some

:51:14.:51:18.

fantastic locations that the average person would not be able to

:51:18.:51:22.

get inside. -- scouted. Just to have the permission to go inside

:51:22.:51:28.

and see what is there, it is an amazing listed building, and you

:51:28.:51:32.

know, weekends, bank holidays, national holidays and so on, it is

:51:32.:51:36.

available, and that is when we do a lot of filming. I go in most days,

:51:36.:51:41.

and it is only when you take an outsider in that you see what a

:51:41.:51:46.

wonderful building the front Palace is. It is quite a labyrinth. There

:51:46.:51:49.

are terrific rooms, the Drew Ginn room, the House of Lords, the

:51:49.:51:56.

Commons. Another big hope is that if they phone the next Bond movie

:51:56.:52:00.

there, they may need a few cameo roles for political

:52:00.:52:05.

correspondence... Can we do the deal now? We cannot afford MPs,

:52:05.:52:12.

their rates would be too high for us, I am sure! It has been another

:52:12.:52:15.

busy political week with rebellions over Europe, as we have been

:52:15.:52:20.

discussing, spats over energy policy, and the return of a big

:52:20.:52:23.

Westminster these. Here is Susanna with a round-up of the last seven

:52:23.:52:33.
:52:33.:52:33.

Tarzan swung back into action this week, telling Dave that people do

:52:33.:52:39.

not think he had a strategy for growth, but never fear, and 89 a

:52:39.:52:43.

point plan for getting the country up and running. They've had t'other

:52:43.:52:50.

troubles on his hands and the Westminster jungle as they teamed

:52:50.:52:57.

up with the enemy. -- Dave had tuk- tuk troubles. He is weak abroad,

:52:57.:53:03.

week at home, it is John Major all over again. Ever get the feeling

:53:03.:53:07.

that the coalition is blowing in different directions? First the

:53:07.:53:10.

Tory energy minister said the UK had had enough of wind farms, but

:53:10.:53:15.

then Ed Davey blew that a wave. am in charge of renewable policy,

:53:15.:53:19.

and the policy has not changed. wind power was blowing the

:53:19.:53:24.

political razed of the White House of course, campaigning star Das

:53:24.:53:29.

Hurricane Sandy swept in, but with just four days to go, it is back to

:53:29.:53:38.

business. -- campaigning stopped as. Back to business, that crucial last

:53:38.:53:42.

phase of the American presidential elections, and we are joined now to

:53:42.:53:47.

look at all of this with the London bureau chief of the Wall Street

:53:47.:53:52.

Journal. Thank you very much indeed for coming in. We have had this

:53:52.:53:57.

extraordinary few days whereby we have had a National Natural

:53:57.:54:02.

Disaster, somehow wrapped up with the final phase of the presidential

:54:02.:54:07.

elections. How do you think it has played? Well, it is probably not

:54:08.:54:12.

good news for Mitt Romney. The storm sweeps in, obviously it is a

:54:12.:54:17.

terrible tragedy. The President has the opportunity to look very

:54:17.:54:23.

presidential, as he goes around New Jersey, and he had the added

:54:23.:54:27.

benefit of getting to go on this tour of New Jersey and hug victims,

:54:27.:54:31.

along with Governor Chris Christie, a Republican who was at one time

:54:31.:54:34.

thought to be a potential running mate for Mitt Romney. So this has

:54:34.:54:39.

not been the greatest sequence of events for the Republican candidate.

:54:39.:54:45.

And Chris Christie, as you say, a major figure in Europe and said he

:54:45.:54:49.

thought the President was doing a fantastic job. -- a major figure in

:54:49.:54:54.

the Republican Party. Mitt Romney had earlier made statements about

:54:54.:54:58.

his plan to dismantle the Federal Emergency Management Agency, which

:54:58.:55:02.

is the one which co-ordinates all these big disasters among different

:55:02.:55:06.

states. So he was asked about that afterwards, his campaign did not

:55:06.:55:10.

back away from his earlier statement, so again timing is

:55:10.:55:14.

everything, and his timing was not good. And although there has been a

:55:14.:55:18.

huge loss of life and there has been a widescale destruction along

:55:18.:55:24.

that these costs, President Obama seems generally to be getting a lot

:55:24.:55:29.

of credit from voters for his handling of this. Yes, he does, and

:55:29.:55:34.

you know, it is always a tough situation to step in. You do not

:55:34.:55:37.

want to turn this into a politically charged situation, and

:55:37.:55:42.

they did, I think, a pretty nimble job of not making it look like they

:55:42.:55:45.

were being opportunistic. He also got the advantage with the clock

:55:45.:55:49.

ticking down, he had already started to turn the momentum back

:55:49.:55:53.

in his direction, and then a pause button was hit on the election

:55:53.:55:57.

because nobody felt like they could campaign, and certainly not

:55:57.:56:02.

campaign aggressively. Bronwen, where do think we are at now, with

:56:02.:56:07.

just a few days to go and things looking very close? Well, I think

:56:07.:56:12.

Barack Obama is probably just ahead. I am one of many watching it, but

:56:12.:56:18.

if you look at Ohio, which a month and a half ago was six points for

:56:18.:56:22.

Obama, then it went down to pretty much neck and neck, it has opened

:56:22.:56:26.

up again. That is one of the key states were this will be determined.

:56:26.:56:30.

There are signs pointing in his favour, and the storm has been

:56:30.:56:35.

great for him, but it is close. Kevin Kammer how do you think it is

:56:35.:56:38.

going to impact on British politics? Politicians here are

:56:38.:56:42.

watching very closely. David Cameron, you would think, the

:56:42.:56:46.

Conservatives are allied with the Republicans, but he gets on very

:56:46.:56:50.

well with Obama, and he would be quite happy with business as usual

:56:50.:56:54.

in the White House, clearly that is the position of the Liberal

:56:54.:57:03.

Democrats and Labour. You cannot read much -- the political class --

:57:04.:57:07.

you cannot read much of the American situation back into the UK,

:57:07.:57:11.

but the political class would be reasonably happy with Obama still

:57:11.:57:18.

in the White Horse. -- the White House. Mitt Romney's visited just

:57:18.:57:22.

before the Olympics was not a great moment of try to set up foreign

:57:22.:57:27.

policy, because he speculated that the might not have been up to snuff

:57:27.:57:33.

and then everything went fantastic. -- the Olympic security plan might

:57:33.:57:39.

not have been up to snuff and then everything went fantastic. The

:57:40.:57:44.

Obama campaign has effectively drawn a line under that now, from

:57:44.:57:50.

the second debate forwards, in many of the swing states, we see the

:57:51.:57:56.

toss-up states trending back to Obama. And the last bits of

:57:56.:57:59.

frenetic campaigning are going on now. Thank you very much for

:57:59.:58:04.

joining as. Just time before we go to find out the answer to the quiz,

:58:04.:58:10.

and the answer was... The question, of course, was which stuffed animal

:58:10.:58:16.

has William Hague spent �10,000 renovating? Badger, Stagg, anaconda

:58:17.:58:23.

or meerkat? I'm sure you have done your homework. You have not got

:58:23.:58:26.

Eric Pickles on that list! answer... It is the snake, isn't

:58:26.:58:33.

it? It is indeed the snake, in fact we can see it there. Extraordinary,

:58:33.:58:37.

the amount of money that was spent, this was a gift to one of the

:58:37.:58:43.

foreign embassies. On that note... Priorities, that is what politics

:58:43.:58:48.

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