Browse content similar to 01/11/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Afternoon, folks. Welcome to the Daily Politics. Are the ghosts of | :00:43. | :00:48. | |
Conservative past coming back to want David Cameron? The ayes to the | :00:48. | :00:56. | |
right, 307. The noes to the left, 294. 53 Conservative MPs rebel on | :00:56. | :01:00. | |
Europe. Last night they were joined by Labour to inflict a Commons | :01:00. | :01:06. | |
defeat on the Government. They tell the Prime Minister and EU budget | :01:06. | :01:10. | |
freeze is not enough, they want a real-terms cut. If the Prime | :01:10. | :01:13. | |
Minister cannot get that in Brussels, will MPs reject whatever | :01:13. | :01:20. | |
he does get? Gone With the wind? After a week of confusion, are | :01:20. | :01:26. | |
onshore wind farms done for? And the political moustache makes a | :01:26. | :01:35. | |
comeback for Movember. But they All of that is coming up in the | :01:36. | :01:42. | |
next hour. Who more appropriate to join us on this All Saints Day, a | :01:42. | :01:46. | |
political saint of his own making, the former mayor of London. But so | :01:46. | :01:52. | |
would not melt in his mouth. Welcome back to the show. Let's | :01:52. | :01:56. | |
start with what turned into an All Hallows' Eve fright night for the | :01:56. | :02:00. | |
Prime Minister. Scary! He was defeated by an unholy alliance of | :02:00. | :02:05. | |
53 of his own MPs and the Labour Party. Together, they voted for a | :02:05. | :02:10. | |
real-terms reduction in the EU budget, rather than the real-terms | :02:10. | :02:14. | |
freeze that the Prime Minister is after. It is a cash increase, but | :02:14. | :02:17. | |
for inflation. That is what the Prime Minister wants. With | :02:17. | :02:21. | |
impeccable timing, debit Prime Minister Nick Clegg has been making | :02:21. | :02:25. | |
a speech on Europe this morning. Ever helpful, he's attacked | :02:25. | :02:31. | |
Conservative rebels but, also, the Labour leadership. Their change of | :02:31. | :02:36. | |
heart is dishonest. It is hypocritical. Worst of all, | :02:36. | :02:42. | |
Labour's plan could cost the taxpayer more, not less. In pushing | :02:42. | :02:46. | |
a completely unrealistic position on the EU budget, one that is miles | :02:46. | :02:50. | |
away from any other country's position, Labour will have | :02:50. | :02:57. | |
absolutely no hope of getting a budget deal agreed, driving the EU | :02:57. | :03:05. | |
budget built up instead, over which It may have been opportunistic, it | :03:05. | :03:10. | |
may have even been hypocritical. But it is pretty good politics by | :03:10. | :03:14. | |
Labour? I think the world has changed. A whole generation of MPs | :03:14. | :03:19. | |
like myself, who grew up influenced by the war, saw Europe as a real | :03:19. | :03:22. | |
issue, the world has moved on. Nobody in France or Italy expects | :03:22. | :03:27. | |
to be invaded by Germany or even Russia. Now people are focusing on | :03:27. | :03:31. | |
what it costs. The EU budget makes the Ministry of Defence budget look | :03:31. | :03:37. | |
responsible and well managed. cannot be that bad! All of those | :03:37. | :03:42. | |
agricultural subsidies, that do not go to small farmers. It's mostly | :03:42. | :03:46. | |
big business and half of them are American. The Cypriots are in the | :03:46. | :03:53. | |
chair at the moment. They have a �5 billion cut proposed in common | :03:53. | :03:58. | |
agricultural subsidies. 5 billion, in a one trillion budget. The | :03:58. | :04:03. | |
French have thrown their toys out of the pram. It is not French | :04:03. | :04:07. | |
farmers getting this, which is what is stupid. I think France does not | :04:07. | :04:10. | |
publish the details of who gets what. That is because they are | :04:10. | :04:17. | |
ashamed. We have all had those horrific tales, again and again, of | :04:17. | :04:21. | |
terrible waste. When everything else is being cut, if we are all | :04:21. | :04:25. | |
honest, we know that it's not going to be easy for any time and the | :04:25. | :04:29. | |
rest of this decade. So why should the European budget be exempt from | :04:29. | :04:33. | |
real scrutiny? It is what the British people think? I suspect it | :04:33. | :04:36. | |
is what everybody in Europe thinks, but nobody gets a chance to put it | :04:36. | :04:41. | |
out there. We are going to come back to this, but why do you think | :04:41. | :04:47. | |
these things don't play as much in Germany or France, or even Italy? | :04:47. | :04:52. | |
don't know. You have always had this strong Euro-sceptic block of | :04:52. | :04:56. | |
opinion here. That has kept fuelling it. That really wasn't | :04:56. | :05:01. | |
there in Europe after the war. Because they had all been invaded... | :05:01. | :05:06. | |
For the reasons he gave? It's time they got their act together. The | :05:06. | :05:09. | |
scrutiny you get in German politics is very good. But nobody is | :05:09. | :05:13. | |
scrutinising his nightmare. I always thought once you got a | :05:13. | :05:17. | |
European Parliament, what do you need to commission for? You have | :05:17. | :05:20. | |
elected MPs, let them run the budget and be accountable. This | :05:20. | :05:25. | |
morning, Chancellor George Osborne said that the real test in the EU | :05:25. | :05:29. | |
budget is still to come. That's if the Prime Minister comes back from | :05:29. | :05:32. | |
Brussels after negotiations, with something less than a real-terms | :05:32. | :05:38. | |
reduction in the EU budget. Will the Conservative rebels join again | :05:38. | :05:45. | |
with Labour to reject it? They were in no mood to compensate last night. | :05:45. | :05:49. | |
This Prime Minister has been clear that the remorseless rise in | :05:49. | :05:52. | |
spending in the EU has to stop and it will stop. If there is no cut or | :05:52. | :05:58. | |
no real freeze, there is no deal. The framework will be deterred. | :05:58. | :06:01. | |
goal today is to stand up for the taxpayer. I know this is not | :06:02. | :06:06. | |
something that is only the preserve of these ventures. I know there are | :06:06. | :06:10. | |
some members opposite who also want to rise above some of the partisan | :06:10. | :06:14. | |
discussions today and make sure that we have a decision from the | :06:14. | :06:19. | |
debates that we have this evening. A decision that does the best thing | :06:19. | :06:24. | |
for the taxpayer. What an array to choose from! I'll give way to the | :06:24. | :06:30. | |
honourable gentleman. Would not be Honourable Gentleman agree that the | :06:30. | :06:35. | |
proposal put forward by the Government in the face of | :06:35. | :06:38. | |
extraordinary, irrational provocation from the commission is | :06:38. | :06:45. | |
extremely sensible and deserves the support of the whole house? I had | :06:45. | :06:49. | |
police officers who came to my surgery. They understand that their | :06:49. | :06:52. | |
pay is frozen. They are less happy about changes to terms and | :06:52. | :06:55. | |
conditions, less happy about not getting their increments. What they | :06:55. | :06:59. | |
do not understand is why other elements of the Budget, in | :06:59. | :07:02. | |
particular the European Union, should be guaranteed inflationary | :07:02. | :07:05. | |
increases, letter don't inflationary increases or of the | :07:05. | :07:10. | |
way through to 2020. -- let alone inflationary increases all of the | :07:10. | :07:15. | |
way through to 2020. I'm grateful to the Honourable Member, who I | :07:15. | :07:19. | |
have the utmost respect for. Does he have the utmost respect for | :07:19. | :07:22. | |
members opposite who voted time and time again to give away powers and | :07:22. | :07:27. | |
money to the European Union, and now propose to wrap themselves in | :07:27. | :07:31. | |
the Euro-sceptic flag and walk through the lobbies this afternoon? | :07:31. | :07:37. | |
I think this multi- national framework, or EU budget, is insane. | :07:37. | :07:42. | |
To ask for the European Union to ask for a 10% real increase above | :07:42. | :07:48. | |
inflation is insulting to our constituents. In it is insulting to | :07:48. | :07:51. | |
the people of Spain and Italy and Portugal, and Ireland, who are | :07:51. | :07:57. | |
being told to pull in their belts. The if the Prime Minister achieves | :07:57. | :08:03. | |
a freeze in the European Union budget, he will have done something | :08:03. | :08:08. | |
that no other Prime Minister has managed to achieve. No, I am not | :08:08. | :08:12. | |
going to give way. All that is happening on these benches is | :08:12. | :08:15. | |
whenever the Prime Minister says he is going to achieve something, | :08:15. | :08:23. | |
there are those that are somewhat self-indulgent and are seeking to | :08:23. | :08:28. | |
set an even higher hurdle for him to jump over. It is unreasonable | :08:28. | :08:34. | |
and unfair. If this party hopes to be in government after the next | :08:34. | :08:37. | |
General Election, it has got to get a grip and start supporting the | :08:37. | :08:44. | |
Prime Minister. It is no good in the European elections in 2014 | :08:44. | :08:47. | |
wrapping ourselves in the Union flag if tonight we take it off and | :08:47. | :08:51. | |
wrap ourselves in the stars of the European Union flag. This is a | :08:51. | :08:55. | |
moment of truth, this is a moment of decision. We can send a united | :08:55. | :09:00. | |
message, as a parliament, as a nation, to Brussels. Let's make a | :09:00. | :09:04. | |
difference. If we are not making a difference, we might as well go | :09:04. | :09:10. | |
home. At that point, he went home. No, good clips from a lively | :09:10. | :09:16. | |
Commons debate. We like it when that happens on the Daily Politics. | :09:16. | :09:21. | |
Let's continue. We are joined by Bernard Jenkin, one of the | :09:21. | :09:27. | |
Conservative rebels, Nadhim Zahawi, who voted with the Government, and | :09:27. | :09:31. | |
Lib Dem MP Martin Horwood. I think we know how he voted as well. You | :09:31. | :09:35. | |
voted for the rebels. We know, by looking across the Channel, that | :09:35. | :09:39. | |
the best the Prime Minister is going to get is a freeze in real | :09:39. | :09:43. | |
terms on the existing budget. Nobody else is talking about a huge | :09:43. | :09:49. | |
cut. Why lumber him with this vote? First of all, it is advisory. | :09:49. | :09:53. | |
understand that, not binding. Prime Minister could have easily | :09:53. | :10:00. | |
have said, yes, I accept this amendment, I will do my best, but I | :10:00. | :10:04. | |
am pretty powerless. That is the reality. The people saying it is | :10:04. | :10:07. | |
frightfully irresponsible, we must not pretend we are powerless, we | :10:07. | :10:11. | |
have become powerless. What this vote was about was a message from | :10:11. | :10:14. | |
the British people. We don't care what your problems are. We are not | :10:14. | :10:20. | |
happy with this relationship. That message is now getting through to | :10:20. | :10:24. | |
Parliament. It was about a lot more than the Budget in your view? | :10:24. | :10:27. | |
some of the, this is a seismic moment in British politics. There | :10:27. | :10:36. | |
are only 53 of you, it is not seismic. Even the Labour vote, it | :10:36. | :10:41. | |
is basically a pro-Europe party, they now realise they haven't got a | :10:41. | :10:44. | |
chance of being elected unless they at least pretend to be Euro-sceptic. | :10:44. | :10:48. | |
I think it would be madness to leave, because so much of our trade | :10:48. | :10:53. | |
is tied up in it. But there is no reason why we cannot say there is a | :10:53. | :10:57. | |
lot wrong here and a lot of waste. I used to be in the House of | :10:57. | :11:00. | |
Commons, the fact I was there didn't been I stopped complaining | :11:00. | :11:02. | |
about their waist of your government and the way you | :11:02. | :11:08. | |
squandered so much money. -- the wastage in your government. Do you | :11:08. | :11:13. | |
think that Labour will have to become... I understand they were | :11:13. | :11:16. | |
not say that we should leave, but will they become more Europe | :11:16. | :11:24. | |
sceptic? When the Tories first applied to join the Common Market, | :11:24. | :11:27. | |
they said it was the end of thousands of years of British | :11:27. | :11:34. | |
history. I don't think either of their main parties are four or or | :11:34. | :11:41. | |
against, solidly. The Lib Dems are united. Labour had a real problem. | :11:41. | :11:45. | |
Margaret Hodge and said she hated his vote, it was political | :11:45. | :11:49. | |
opportunism. Bernard, you did not play him on your clip, a brilliant | :11:49. | :11:54. | |
speech. The. Margaret he was making, there are these vibrations, I call | :11:54. | :11:59. | |
them tremors. People do feel that we ought to try and make sure that | :11:59. | :12:02. | |
we try our hardest to cut the budget. That is what they are going | :12:02. | :12:06. | |
to try and do. When Bernard says we are helpless, I disagree. The | :12:06. | :12:09. | |
European Commission would not be panicking and putting a press | :12:09. | :12:12. | |
releases as to what the consequences would be if we had a | :12:12. | :12:17. | |
freeze in the budget in real terms, if we were helpless. Do you buy the | :12:17. | :12:20. | |
line of the rebels that bypassing this motion it is helpful to the | :12:20. | :12:24. | |
Prime Minister, it stiffens his resolve? He now cannot come back | :12:24. | :12:31. | |
from Brussels with anything less than a freeze? Do you buy that? | :12:31. | :12:35. | |
voted the other way. To try to push back the reins this relentless | :12:35. | :12:39. | |
increase in budgets, you have to build alliances. We had a alliance | :12:39. | :12:42. | |
with Germany, France, the Netherlands and Finland. The big | :12:42. | :12:46. | |
countries are on our side. 17 countries are net beneficiaries. | :12:46. | :12:50. | |
They will not be voting to cut the budget. When you build that | :12:50. | :12:53. | |
Alliance and promise that what you really want is a real-terms freeze, | :12:53. | :12:57. | |
there is no point going back and saying, you know what, I change my | :12:57. | :13:04. | |
mind, I wanted it more now. Who is on the side of a freeze? Germany, | :13:04. | :13:07. | |
France and a Nicolas Sarkozy, I hope Hollande will deliver on that. | :13:07. | :13:12. | |
The Netherlands, Finland, they have signed up. In negotiating, you have | :13:12. | :13:16. | |
to be consistent. That is why I was supporting the Government. But the | :13:16. | :13:18. | |
Prime Minister needs to listen to Parliament, which he will do. | :13:18. | :13:23. | |
Parliament has spoken last night. It delivered a very clear message. | :13:23. | :13:29. | |
The Lib Dem position, are they clearly in favour of aims real- | :13:29. | :13:35. | |
terms freeze? By yes, at least. What we have negotiated his a | :13:35. | :13:39. | |
position that could potentially be a cut if we can negotiate that. But | :13:39. | :13:46. | |
it's an unrealistic barter set the Government. Mission impossible? | :13:46. | :13:50. | |
have the Conservative Party chronically disunited over Europe. | :13:50. | :13:54. | |
This vote last night has probably underlined our negotiating position. | :13:54. | :13:59. | |
If you nail your mass to a completely unrealistic objective of | :13:59. | :14:04. | |
demanding a cut, when you haven't built the alliances that the deans | :14:04. | :14:10. | |
are how we was talking about, you will not be taken seriously. -- | :14:10. | :14:15. | |
that Nadhim Zahawi was talking about. At least Bernard and his | :14:15. | :14:17. | |
Euro-sceptic friends have been consistent. The hypocrisy of the | :14:17. | :14:23. | |
Labour Party last night was unbelievable. It observed about a | :14:23. | :14:27. | |
dozen successive increases in the EU budget when they were in power. | :14:27. | :14:33. | |
You supported them all? This was a Europe-wide budget that was | :14:33. | :14:40. | |
negotiated. A promise to renegotiate the common agricultural | :14:40. | :14:43. | |
policy that was never delivered! There was more money available. | :14:43. | :14:47. | |
That is gone forever. When we are cutting benefits for ordinary | :14:47. | :14:51. | |
people, seeing people really struggling, you have to say to | :14:51. | :14:53. | |
everybody, don't just squeeze the British budget, we should be | :14:53. | :15:03. | |
:15:03. | :15:04. | ||
squeezing the European budget as well. I think that is consensus. | :15:04. | :15:06. | |
When the Prime Minister goes to Brussels, I don't think anything is | :15:06. | :15:09. | |
going to happen this side of Christmas because they can't get an | :15:10. | :15:13. | |
agreement. There comes a time when the British Prime Minister, he | :15:13. | :15:18. | |
looks and says, I can't we get this real-terms freeze. They have picked | :15:18. | :15:23. | |
it up more. Do the Lib Dems then support him using the veto? We will | :15:23. | :15:27. | |
support the Prime Minister getting the best deal possible for Britain | :15:27. | :15:31. | |
out of these negotiations. Last night has damaged that. What is the | :15:31. | :15:34. | |
answer to my question? Will you support in using the veto if he | :15:34. | :15:38. | |
cannot deliver your policy, which is a real-terms freeze? I think | :15:38. | :15:41. | |
it's helpful in negotiations for the other partners in the | :15:41. | :15:44. | |
negotiations to think we might use the veto. I don't think that's | :15:44. | :15:48. | |
particularly unhelpful. If the Prime Minister does, can he count | :15:48. | :15:51. | |
on the support of the Lib Dems? think the Prime Minister can count | :15:51. | :15:56. | |
on our support for negotiating the best possible deal. That's the kind | :15:56. | :16:03. | |
of thing you don't actually reveal in advance. You are not going to | :16:03. | :16:07. | |
come on and say you will support in getting the worst possible deal! | :16:07. | :16:10. | |
is the Ed Balls school of diplomacy, setting out your red lines before | :16:10. | :16:20. | |
:16:20. | :16:27. | ||
$:/STARTFEED. Cameron will go into the meeting saying, I have got all | :16:27. | :16:33. | |
these nutters on my back. When you look at the polls, only one in 20 | :16:33. | :16:39. | |
people regard the European Union as a vital issue. That is from 20th | :16:39. | :16:44. | |
October 12. Only 5% mentioned the EU as an important issue facing | :16:44. | :16:50. | |
Britain today. What do they think about tax, standards of living, | :16:51. | :16:55. | |
benefits for disabled people? Public spending and borrowing? This | :16:55. | :17:01. | |
is an issue that overlaps with all of those things. And what about | :17:01. | :17:05. | |
bringing paedophiles and terrorists back to this country to face | :17:05. | :17:13. | |
justice? We have got all sorts of agreements. You are allowing Euro- | :17:13. | :17:21. | |
scepticism to weaken Britain's stance. I want to be on a BBC | :17:21. | :17:26. | |
programme that does not mention the word paedophile. Is your party not | :17:26. | :17:31. | |
in danger of going back to a civil war over Europe. You are all Euro- | :17:31. | :17:38. | |
sceptics. You have got degrees of Euro-scepticism. Do you want TV | :17:38. | :17:48. | |
you? No, I do not. Do you? No he does not. You had very sound people | :17:48. | :17:54. | |
voting last night. They are sound people are in Europe. Dominic voted | :17:54. | :17:59. | |
with the Government. The party is not split, the party wants to | :17:59. | :18:06. | |
support the Prime Minister in cutting the European budget. There | :18:06. | :18:12. | |
are different factions of Euro- sceptics. The Conservative Party | :18:12. | :18:17. | |
needs to get its act together. is not like Maastricht when there | :18:17. | :18:27. | |
was a real split. He is too young to have lived through that. | :18:27. | :18:32. | |
showed a speech that was a bit more like the Maastricht debate. The | :18:32. | :18:37. | |
Conservative Party is far more united about the European Union. | :18:37. | :18:44. | |
This was about... Do you want a referendum that says in or out? | :18:44. | :18:50. | |
would like a mandate referendum. Do the British people agree the | :18:50. | :18:55. | |
British Government should negotiate a new deal about trade? Nick Clegg | :18:55. | :19:03. | |
this morning, he said, he described the Prime Minister's plans to | :19:03. | :19:08. | |
repatriate powers, which is the long-term aim of the Conservatives | :19:08. | :19:14. | |
as a, quote, false promises wrapped in the Union Jack. Is it that no | :19:14. | :19:22. | |
major powers should be in a packed? I do not think it is an unwise | :19:22. | :19:28. | |
thing to do. So will it is not a false promise? There are some | :19:28. | :19:32. | |
powers you can repatriate through agreement and negotiation. | :19:33. | :19:38. | |
Fisheries is an example. The promise that you can repatriate | :19:38. | :19:41. | |
whole sell large chunks of our relationship with Europe is | :19:41. | :19:49. | |
unrealistic. We are still all on the European train. We are not | :19:49. | :19:54. | |
going to be in the front driving, because we do not want to be in the | :19:54. | :19:58. | |
European federation. But all the rules that exist on the single | :19:58. | :20:01. | |
market are going to be dominated by the group at the front. Take | :20:01. | :20:06. | |
banking union, they will decide what regulations they want. It will | :20:06. | :20:10. | |
not take long for the commission to decide, let's make it a rule for | :20:10. | :20:16. | |
everybody, and we will be out voted. If they are going to be a | :20:16. | :20:20. | |
federation and have fiscal and banking union, we need a completely | :20:20. | :20:24. | |
different kind of relationship. Otherwise we will be ruled by | :20:25. | :20:29. | |
federal Europe and have no control. We have become so semi-detached | :20:29. | :20:34. | |
from the rest of Europe that we are in the west of possible worlds and | :20:34. | :20:38. | |
we lose influence. Like Norway and Switzerland you have to comply with | :20:38. | :20:43. | |
dozens of rules. I do not agree with that. A but they do not have | :20:43. | :20:49. | |
any influence over it. Europe and the euro-zone is going to change. | :20:49. | :20:53. | |
Every expert says they have to change because of the problems they | :20:53. | :20:58. | |
have. Once that happens if there is an opportunity for us to have a | :20:58. | :21:02. | |
different settlement. The British public will then and should have | :21:02. | :21:06. | |
the right to buy their back or not bat that new relationship. | :21:06. | :21:12. | |
Repatriation is a longer term aim, you probably have more of that in | :21:12. | :21:18. | |
your manifesto. If the Prime Minister comes back from Brussels | :21:18. | :21:23. | |
with a real-terms freeze, not with a cut, but with a real-terms freeze | :21:23. | :21:29. | |
from 2014-2020, you will be happy with that? If he came back and said, | :21:29. | :21:33. | |
we have got the real terms freeze which is better than what we might | :21:33. | :21:38. | |
have got, but we know we are stuffed because these arrangements | :21:38. | :21:42. | |
are completely unfair. The EU now has the right to grab more of our | :21:42. | :21:47. | |
money every yet whether we like it or not. What he will also have to | :21:47. | :21:53. | |
say is that this has to change. In the long term this has to change. | :21:53. | :21:59. | |
By you are not going to vote against a real-terms freeze? | :21:59. | :22:05. | |
think he will be leaving the public behind them. I will ask again for | :22:05. | :22:09. | |
the purposes of clarification, if he comes back with a real-terms | :22:09. | :22:14. | |
freeze, you will not vote against it? I do not know, I will wait and | :22:14. | :22:21. | |
see. I certainly will not. Labour are all over the place. Douglas | :22:21. | :22:25. | |
Alexander was saying he does not know what he is going to do. He is | :22:25. | :22:33. | |
waiting to see what the deal is. said he would not know whether to | :22:33. | :22:39. | |
vote for a real-terms freeze. will be an impressive piece of | :22:39. | :22:43. | |
negotiation given last night. If we triumph over that, that would be | :22:43. | :22:49. | |
good. There will be no veto and no deal. Then the budget rises every | :22:49. | :22:58. | |
year by inflation. Then they will put it off by December. Getting a | :22:58. | :23:05. | |
real freeze is a great result. he does not get a deal, he gets | :23:05. | :23:11. | |
what he wants, a real-terms freeze. Annual budgets may put the prices | :23:11. | :23:16. | |
up for British consumers. That is the nonsense. They really need to | :23:16. | :23:24. | |
have a massive change, the more you listen to this. They've voted for | :23:24. | :23:34. | |
an even bigger budgets. The Labour MEPs voted for a huge increase. | :23:34. | :23:40. | |
are on dodgy ground. The Socialists in the European Parliament voted | :23:40. | :23:45. | |
for an increase. We are governed by someone we do not elect. There is a | :23:45. | :23:49. | |
parliament, get rid of the commission. Bureaucracy is | :23:49. | :23:57. | |
determining how we run our things. Eruption in British politics. What | :23:57. | :24:06. | |
is the Government's policy on wind power? I ask that quite a lot. The | :24:06. | :24:08. | |
new energy minister of state, a Conservative MP, John Hayes | :24:08. | :24:13. | |
declared Britain had, quote, enough onshore wind farms and suggested | :24:13. | :24:18. | |
future projects would be blocked. But he was promptly slapped down by | :24:18. | :24:24. | |
his boss, Energy Secretary Ed Davey. He is a Lib Dem and he says the | :24:24. | :24:30. | |
policy on wind farms has not changed. Confused? Me as well. They | :24:30. | :24:35. | |
have been in the Commons this morning answering questions from E | :24:35. | :24:40. | |
-- MPs seeking clarity. I asked him why he was failing to stand up to | :24:40. | :24:46. | |
his colleagues who want to kill off the industry. I have to disappoint | :24:46. | :24:49. | |
the Right Honourable Lady because my Conservative colleagues and I | :24:49. | :24:54. | |
are working very closely on this matter. That was what the former | :24:54. | :24:59. | |
energy minister. After the outburst yesterday, how closely would he say | :24:59. | :25:05. | |
they were working together now? honourable friend suggested I used | :25:05. | :25:12. | |
the words intimately, but I can say we are working very closely. Listen, | :25:12. | :25:18. | |
Mr Speaker, I will face the house as you requested. He and I may | :25:18. | :25:24. | |
occasionally disagree on issues of substance, but I have to say I | :25:24. | :25:31. | |
really admire his style. So, any clearer? Not meet either. Joining | :25:31. | :25:36. | |
me now is Caroline Lucas and James Delingpole, the climate change | :25:36. | :25:42. | |
sceptic and writer, who was standing as an anti- wind farm | :25:42. | :25:45. | |
candidate in the Corby by-election, but you have pulled out on the | :25:45. | :25:50. | |
basis you have one. Absolutely, it was the shortest and most | :25:50. | :25:56. | |
successful election campaign of all times. I achieved my aims. I was | :25:56. | :26:00. | |
not in it for a tawdry place in Parliament, I wanted to rescue the | :26:00. | :26:06. | |
British countryside from the wind menace. There are 2600 wind | :26:06. | :26:11. | |
turbines already completed and running onshore and another 3000 | :26:11. | :26:15. | |
waiting for approval. I cannot do anything about the ones already in | :26:15. | :26:20. | |
place, but I hope Semtex in a few years will sort out that problem. | :26:20. | :26:28. | |
In the meantime I have achieved... Union terrorists? I have the | :26:28. | :26:35. | |
expertise to destroy these things. In your own native land, Scotland | :26:35. | :26:39. | |
is being ruined, the land of your forefathers is being destroyed by | :26:39. | :26:44. | |
wind farms. I am not arguing the rights and wrongs of wind farms, I | :26:44. | :26:49. | |
am trying to work out how you can claim you have won it there are | :26:49. | :26:55. | |
another 3000 in the pipeline. is a remarkable turnaround in | :26:55. | :26:59. | |
Government policy. It is confusing depending on who you listen to and | :26:59. | :27:05. | |
is another example of the coalition being all over the place. Is there | :27:05. | :27:11. | |
now going to be a drag on onshore wind, or will there be a very few | :27:11. | :27:17. | |
more turbines going up? You are right, there is complete chaos in | :27:17. | :27:21. | |
the coalition. That gives a signal to investors that Britain is not | :27:21. | :27:26. | |
serious about investing in the economy. My worry is that the | :27:27. | :27:32. | |
Semtex is going to be aimed at cheaper fuel bills, jobs and a boom | :27:32. | :27:38. | |
in the economy. He is coming out with frankly unscientific so -- | :27:38. | :27:43. | |
statements. It is very entertaining, but not helpful. I am surprised you | :27:44. | :27:50. | |
are defending wind farms. You could not get anything antique green than | :27:50. | :27:57. | |
a wind turbine. They kill birds, they are inefficient, the increase | :27:57. | :28:01. | |
Sirte 2. They are so unreliable and intermittent, wind up being wind, | :28:01. | :28:05. | |
they require 100% backed up by fossil fuel power on spinning | :28:05. | :28:13. | |
reserve. What you get his two forms of electricity being generated. | :28:13. | :28:18. | |
That is a perfect case in point of what I am saying. It is very | :28:18. | :28:24. | |
entertaining, but it lacks in any factual grounding. You do not need | :28:24. | :28:31. | |
100% back up. Och energy generation needs some back-up. Third, if you | :28:31. | :28:35. | |
have connection with the rest of Europe, you can make the most of | :28:35. | :28:41. | |
when it is windy in other parts of Europe. That is a huge investments. | :28:41. | :28:47. | |
It is less than a massive new fleet of nuclear power stations. Do you | :28:47. | :28:53. | |
not care about...? Britain more than almost anywhere else is one of | :28:53. | :28:56. | |
the best sites for wind farms because of the nature of our | :28:56. | :29:01. | |
climate. I personally like them, they are attractive, it is cheaper | :29:01. | :29:08. | |
to put them on land that in the seat. The simple fact is we are | :29:08. | :29:11. | |
they get on top of our carbon emissions and bring them down, or | :29:12. | :29:15. | |
we may not have a human civilisation by the end of this | :29:15. | :29:22. | |
century. We have just seen this devastation in North America in an | :29:22. | :29:24. | |
election campaign when neither candidate has met and climate | :29:24. | :29:32. | |
change. Is it the result of climate change? About once or twice a | :29:32. | :29:35. | |
decade there would be a catastrophic event, but now they | :29:35. | :29:42. | |
are coming more often. We are heading for three or four. This is | :29:42. | :29:46. | |
junk science from a few selected sites on the internet. It is | :29:46. | :29:52. | |
dreadful. There is no serious scientists I am aware of who is a | :29:52. | :29:58. | |
sceptic. The key thing is not how much science I know or how much you | :29:58. | :30:04. | |
know, it is about the majority of scientific opinion. When you have | :30:05. | :30:09. | |
got hundreds of scientists and if I put it to them what they like to | :30:09. | :30:19. | |
:30:19. | :30:29. | ||
listen to you, or were they like to By my arithmetic, there are about | :30:29. | :30:34. | |
4000 turbines, currently turning in the UK and its waters. This morning, | :30:34. | :30:38. | |
how much electricity were they generating as a percentage of the | :30:38. | :30:42. | |
total amount. Accounted a maths well enough, but I can tell you | :30:42. | :30:48. | |
that a modern turbine will produce enough electricity for 1000 homes. | :30:48. | :30:54. | |
As a percentage? I reckon it is probably less than 5%. Less than 5%. | :30:54. | :31:01. | |
But we are just beginning. Let me give the answer. It is 3%. For all | :31:01. | :31:08. | |
of that damage. If 4000 turbines produce only 3% of our electricity | :31:08. | :31:14. | |
this morning, then we have a target of over 30% of electricity by 2020, | :31:14. | :31:18. | |
which is only eight years away. You are going to need a hell of a lot | :31:18. | :31:21. | |
of turbines? Nobody is suggesting we are doing it all by wind | :31:21. | :31:26. | |
turbines. We are using a range of renewable technologies and energy | :31:26. | :31:30. | |
efficiency. That is the Cinderella of the debate. According to the | :31:30. | :31:34. | |
Government's own figures, we could save 40%. Energy efficiency does | :31:34. | :31:42. | |
not change the percentages of where the energy is coming from. On the | :31:42. | :31:45. | |
plan, most of them getting renewables up to a third of the | :31:45. | :31:53. | |
total electricity, most of that comes from wind power. The biggest | :31:53. | :31:55. | |
way of coping with this is insulated your home probably. | :31:55. | :32:05. | |
Immediately, our electricity bill was down. Yeah, that will work! | :32:05. | :32:11. | |
Economies that are far more successful are rely on wind energy | :32:11. | :32:15. | |
more than we are. The last time, you admitted to being a watermelon, | :32:15. | :32:20. | |
you said, I'm proud to be a watermelon. He's plugging his book | :32:20. | :32:27. | |
now. In a sentence, what is government policy on onshore wind? | :32:27. | :32:30. | |
I think they had a massive U-turn and Ed Davey does not want to admit | :32:31. | :32:35. | |
it. It is completely chaotic, I hope very much that James is a | :32:35. | :32:41. | |
trike. If he is, it's very bad for the British economy and fuel bills. | :32:41. | :32:50. | |
Now, it was Enoch Powell that said all political careers end in | :32:50. | :32:54. | |
failure. I guess that included his own. What happens to the politician | :32:54. | :33:02. | |
who finds himself or herself out of power? How do they cope when the | :33:02. | :33:08. | |
interview requests dry up from the daily politics, they are sat | :33:08. | :33:11. | |
watching a box-set of the David Porter exact home and ministers are | :33:11. | :33:15. | |
not return your calls? In a moment will talk to Ken Livingstone. First, | :33:15. | :33:25. | |
:33:25. | :33:32. | ||
we have been finding out if there There is nothing as ex-as an ex-MP, | :33:32. | :33:36. | |
as the saying goes. One minute you are a star turn at the Palace of | :33:36. | :33:40. | |
Westminster. The next, you're not. So, what do MPs do when they leave | :33:40. | :33:45. | |
the Commons and become common? If they are very lucky, they get to do | :33:45. | :33:49. | |
the thing they really love. Keen fisherman Martin Salter stood down | :33:49. | :33:54. | |
as an MP for Reading West in 2010 and became co-ordinator of the | :33:54. | :33:58. | |
Angling Trust. How does this compare to Westminster? You must | :33:58. | :34:02. | |
miss it? I miss the people, I had some really good friends there and | :34:02. | :34:07. | |
still do. I don't work 90 hours a week, I'm not public property and I | :34:07. | :34:10. | |
know the work he on causes I care about four people I like. It's a | :34:10. | :34:13. | |
great privilege to be able to speak up for a sport that has given me a | :34:13. | :34:17. | |
huge amount of pleasure. I thoroughly enjoy what I'm doing. | :34:17. | :34:21. | |
Martin is not alone in carving out a rather enjoyable niche for | :34:21. | :34:25. | |
himself after leaving the Commons. There is Anne Widdecombe, start of | :34:25. | :34:30. | |
Strictly. Former form secretary John Reid became make football club | :34:30. | :34:36. | |
chairman. The Lembit Opik continued to perform as a stand-up comedian. | :34:36. | :34:40. | |
Only kidding! A lot of former MPs going to lobbying or return to | :34:40. | :34:43. | |
previous MPs, but many find the transition from Member of | :34:43. | :34:47. | |
Parliament to the member of the public traumatic. It was | :34:47. | :34:51. | |
devastating, it really was. I was working long, long hours. I hope I | :34:51. | :34:55. | |
was doing a good job. The number of people that voted for me again, I | :34:55. | :34:59. | |
know I was. Sadly, there is a gap in your life way you wanted to do | :34:59. | :35:04. | |
things for people but that had gone. The study of ex-MPs in 2007 | :35:04. | :35:08. | |
reported instances of nervous breakdowns, divorce and serious | :35:08. | :35:13. | |
debt. In 2010, a record number of parliamentarians, 148, left the | :35:13. | :35:19. | |
Commons. So, how easy is it to find another job? To be honest, unless | :35:19. | :35:23. | |
you are going into a job as an ex Cabinet minister or something like | :35:23. | :35:28. | |
that, if I went back into Project Management and Bass said, what did | :35:28. | :35:33. | |
you do? If I said I was an MP, they would say, so what? What project | :35:33. | :35:37. | |
did you last manage? There is not a big queue of people wanting to | :35:37. | :35:42. | |
employ ex-MPs. Here are a few tips on how to bring your career to a | :35:42. | :35:46. | |
happy end. Use the skills and abilities you have got, but | :35:46. | :35:50. | |
remember you are an ex-MP. Don't try to pretend you are an MP in | :35:50. | :35:55. | |
waiting. It's a different chapter of your life. Just deal with it. | :35:55. | :35:59. | |
you are in the autumn of your political career, remember that | :35:59. | :36:03. | |
there was life after Westminster. What you make of it is up to you. | :36:03. | :36:07. | |
A special welcome to viewers in Scotland who have joined as well | :36:07. | :36:10. | |
that was going on. There have been watching First Minister's questions | :36:10. | :36:16. | |
from Holyrood. We are discussing what happens after a career in | :36:16. | :36:21. | |
politics. What a masterpiece of planning that we had you on to | :36:21. | :36:27. | |
discuss this subject. The high points of your career in terms of | :36:27. | :36:30. | |
the positions are leader of the Greater London Council, MP for | :36:30. | :36:35. | |
Brent East and then mayor of London for two terms. What was the | :36:35. | :36:44. | |
toughest one to leave? Oh, I think when the GLC was abolished, I | :36:44. | :36:48. | |
assumed that something like that would be back fairly soon. I was on | :36:48. | :36:52. | |
my way to Parliament. I assumed at some point we would have a | :36:52. | :36:57. | |
socialist government. Of course, we ended up with Tony Blair! This time | :36:57. | :37:03. | |
round, when I lost to Boris four years ago, I immediately threw | :37:03. | :37:06. | |
myself into... I mean, there were so many cities around the world | :37:06. | :37:10. | |
that wanted me to visit, which I could not do while I was mayor. I | :37:10. | :37:13. | |
spent too much careers running against Boris Johnson. It's only | :37:13. | :37:17. | |
really after the defeat this time that it was like real retirement. | :37:17. | :37:20. | |
The phone stopped ringing, there were not endless meetings. Does | :37:20. | :37:26. | |
that really happen? Literally, I was being managed 24-seven, running | :37:26. | :37:31. | |
around all over the place. I was losing so much weight, pounding the | :37:31. | :37:37. | |
streets. Very good for your health. And suddenly it came to a stop. I | :37:37. | :37:40. | |
have a friend that is not very well, hadn't gone into his garden for | :37:40. | :37:46. | |
years. I spend all of this summer gardening, cutting down trees, | :37:46. | :37:52. | |
weeding... He found that therapeutic? I love it. Every day I | :37:52. | :37:59. | |
could see two Square feet of soil I had reclaimed. Unlike politics, I | :37:59. | :38:05. | |
spent the early part of 2000, 10 years ago, and lobbying to get | :38:05. | :38:12. | |
Crossrail open in 2018. Gardening, you see an immediate result. | :38:12. | :38:15. | |
general, politicians, particularly those that have had a long career | :38:15. | :38:20. | |
and have done things, I don't mean an MP that has been there for a | :38:20. | :38:23. | |
couple of years and then are gone again, politicians that have real | :38:23. | :38:29. | |
careers men, is it difficult in general for them to adapt once it | :38:29. | :38:34. | |
is over? It might be for a new generation coming up. I'm part of | :38:34. | :38:39. | |
the post-war generation. In act videos they were saying, get off | :38:39. | :38:42. | |
your backside and do something else. My partner is a generation younger | :38:42. | :38:47. | |
than me. My partner says, where is your emotion? Sitting around | :38:47. | :38:51. | |
whining about it isn't going to make any difference. Other than the | :38:51. | :38:56. | |
gardening, that you enjoyed, that is clear... I've got my own garden | :38:56. | :39:01. | |
to do, I'm doing about three gardens. It will come to an end. I | :39:01. | :39:06. | |
am also on the Labour NEC, I do a lot of fund-raising dinners for the | :39:06. | :39:10. | |
Labour Party. I go around in by- elections and all of that. I'm not | :39:10. | :39:13. | |
really retired, and does not holding an office. What do you do | :39:13. | :39:23. | |
to pay the rent? I have got my MP's salary and my mayors' pension. They | :39:23. | :39:29. | |
pay �20,000 a year. Then there is radio and TV work, after-dinner | :39:29. | :39:33. | |
speeches. �50,000 a year, I am really tough to the off. People are | :39:33. | :39:37. | |
struggling a lot more than made. spoke to one Labour MP that is | :39:37. | :39:40. | |
standing down and had been a government minister, a well- | :39:40. | :39:43. | |
regarded career. He said that he was going to get away from | :39:43. | :39:48. | |
Westminster altogether. He was actually thinking of starting a | :39:48. | :39:51. | |
business. That was something he had never done before. He had run | :39:51. | :39:58. | |
departments, but starting a business he thought would be a | :39:58. | :40:02. | |
fresh career. Once the gardens are all done, I might build you a | :40:02. | :40:07. | |
wildlife garden firm? I would quite enjoy that. The only problem is | :40:07. | :40:11. | |
that I cannot drive, I would have to be taking everything around on | :40:11. | :40:17. | |
the Tube. I need you to get enough to hire a sofa. | :40:17. | :40:22. | |
Get your beer goggles on. We are going to talk about ale. It's a bit | :40:22. | :40:27. | |
early to start, well, not at the Daily Politics. But it's not too | :40:27. | :40:31. | |
early for MPs to debate the price of beer. They want to put a halt to | :40:31. | :40:37. | |
something called the beer duty escalator. Thanks. It increases the | :40:37. | :40:43. | |
tax on this stuff every year. The beer and pub Federation have worked | :40:43. | :40:48. | |
out that the average Briton spends... I cannot see where it is. | :40:48. | :40:58. | |
:40:58. | :40:59. | ||
Look at that, �177 the year on beer tax. Compare that to Denmark. This | :40:59. | :41:07. | |
one? I can tell by the name. �64. Spanish... Can you get Spanish | :41:07. | :41:13. | |
beer? I didn't know that. �15 the year. That's quite a big difference. | :41:13. | :41:20. | |
15 for the Spanish, 67 and 177 for us. The price of beer is something | :41:20. | :41:25. | |
that MPs have noticed as well, and online petitioner has attracted | :41:25. | :41:31. | |
100,000 signatures. Andrew Griffiths has represented | :41:31. | :41:36. | |
petitioners in the House of Commons this morning. Here he is, in that | :41:36. | :41:42. | |
Daily Politics pub. Is it a good thing that the Government has tried | :41:42. | :41:46. | |
to discourage people from drinking? We all want responsible drinking, | :41:46. | :41:48. | |
that is absolutely right. The taxation system we have at the | :41:48. | :41:52. | |
moment is encouraging people to drink spirits, to drink wine and, | :41:52. | :41:58. | |
actually, beer, a great British product, is suffering as a result. | :41:58. | :42:02. | |
Since the beer duty escalator was introduced, we have seen beer sales | :42:02. | :42:09. | |
drop by 16%. We have seen five Crest Close for why his beer are | :42:09. | :42:16. | |
suffering more? As I understand, or of alcohol is subject to this | :42:16. | :42:21. | |
escalator? Under a Scottish Chancellor, we had 10 years of a | :42:21. | :42:30. | |
freeze on Scottish whisky. Because beer is drunk in pubs more so, this | :42:30. | :42:36. | |
is impacting on community pubs to a large extent. It is forcing growers | :42:36. | :42:44. | |
to struggle. It is forcing pubs to close. -- growers. Do you have any | :42:44. | :42:49. | |
evidence... We know pubs are closing, but what is the evidence | :42:49. | :42:54. | |
that this duty escalator, pushing it up more than the price of | :42:54. | :43:04. | |
:43:04. | :43:06. | ||
inflation, is contributing? Most pubs, they get 50% of their profits | :43:06. | :43:10. | |
from beer. Not only is it damaging pubs and brewers, it is not raising | :43:10. | :43:16. | |
any money. The Treasury forecast shows that in the next four years | :43:16. | :43:19. | |
it will raise no money because sales are dropping as a result. We | :43:19. | :43:22. | |
are shooting ourselves in the foot. If they scrap the beer duty | :43:22. | :43:31. | |
escalator, we would see real growth in the sector. It seems you have a | :43:31. | :43:34. | |
mountain to climb at a time when the Chancellor is desperate for | :43:34. | :43:38. | |
money. He's got to cut public spending, he has been putting up | :43:38. | :43:44. | |
taxes as well. Getting a cut in the beer tax, it seems that it's not | :43:44. | :43:53. | |
going to be that easy? Look at duty on cider. Should you going to lay | :43:53. | :43:57. | |
pub and have a pint of bitter or a pint of cider, there is 50 pence | :43:57. | :44:02. | |
difference in the duty that you pay on a pint of beer. So, every time | :44:02. | :44:07. | |
somebody chooses cider instead of beer, the Treasury is losing 50p. | :44:07. | :44:12. | |
Also, the cider makers have 50 pence tax breaks to spend on | :44:12. | :44:16. | |
promoting their products and marketing and advertising. When you | :44:16. | :44:21. | |
put your points to the Prime their stand the Chancellor about this, | :44:21. | :44:27. | |
what did they say to you as they sip their champagne? I think we all | :44:27. | :44:31. | |
know. David Cameron loves a pint of bitter. He has been photographed on | :44:31. | :44:36. | |
many occasions drinking fine Burton Ale. That doesn't mean he likes it, | :44:36. | :44:42. | |
it means he knows that the cameras are there! He is an beer mother. We | :44:42. | :44:46. | |
have reached a turning point. The thing about a beer escalator is | :44:46. | :44:51. | |
that when you get to the top you stop and get off. We have reached | :44:51. | :44:54. | |
the point where the escalator is not raising any money for the | :44:54. | :44:58. | |
Treasury. It's actually costing jobs and costing sales. Stick with | :44:58. | :45:04. | |
us. Don't go away. Ken Livingstone's reaction. Everybody | :45:04. | :45:07. | |
that wants to cut a tax on something always tells me, whatever | :45:07. | :45:17. | |
:45:17. | :45:21. | ||
it is, it's not raising money $:/STARTFEED. And one pub in London | :45:21. | :45:26. | |
in every 10 closes every year. Most people put their life savings into | :45:26. | :45:32. | |
renting a chub -- pub from a giant corporation and then they are | :45:32. | :45:37. | |
forced to buy their alcohol from them about two or three times the | :45:37. | :45:44. | |
price they can get from the supermarket. P but are drinking at | :45:44. | :45:50. | |
home because it is cheaper. Thatcher, give her her due, she got | :45:50. | :45:54. | |
rid of the tied cottage, but it has crept back and it forces the public | :45:54. | :46:02. | |
to buy from giant corporations. British beer a pub Federation works | :46:03. | :46:06. | |
hand-in-hand with the giant corporations? Yes, that is right | :46:06. | :46:13. | |
and the industry has had some problems and some self regulation | :46:13. | :46:19. | |
has been brought in. One of the big problems is the supermarkets. They | :46:19. | :46:23. | |
use alcohol as a loss-leader and have driven the prices down and as | :46:23. | :46:27. | |
a result we see more people drinking at home unsupervised. | :46:27. | :46:34. | |
ary briefly because we have run out of time, on a scale of 1 to 10, 10 | :46:34. | :46:37. | |
being good for you, what is the chance of you getting this at the | :46:37. | :46:47. | |
next Budget? I am optimistic. I would say nine, Andrew, I'm a | :46:47. | :46:53. | |
born optimist. That is certainly optimistic. Have one on me. I have | :46:53. | :46:58. | |
eight tab behind the bar. When the contract to run the West Coast main | :46:58. | :47:04. | |
line was handed to FirstGroup, there were cries of foul play from | :47:04. | :47:08. | |
Virgin Trains. Richard Branson claimed the Department for | :47:08. | :47:13. | |
Transport had got their calculations wrong. The protest was | :47:13. | :47:17. | |
dismissed as sour grapes. Then last month the Transport Minister had to | :47:17. | :47:24. | |
admit there were serious flaws in the franchise process. Yesterday he | :47:24. | :47:32. | |
faced MPs on the transport committee. The mistakes which were | :47:33. | :47:37. | |
made on the InterCity West Coast franchise should not have been made | :47:38. | :47:43. | |
and they were serious for the Department. We have apologised to | :47:43. | :47:46. | |
the bidders involved and the taxpayers who have a right to | :47:46. | :47:56. | |
:47:56. | :47:56. | ||
expect better. Would the interim report, which can only be described | :47:56. | :48:01. | |
as a damning indictment of the Department, and the report found | :48:01. | :48:07. | |
the department knew the process was flawed and lacked transparency, | :48:07. | :48:11. | |
that it changed the rules at the last minute without telling the | :48:11. | :48:16. | |
bidders and acted unfairly and was aware it was open to legal | :48:16. | :48:24. | |
challenge. In view of all of that, do you wish you could have asked | :48:24. | :48:28. | |
more questions in the department before you came to the conclusion | :48:28. | :48:33. | |
that you're content with the way things had been done? Guided ask | :48:33. | :48:39. | |
questions and I was assured when I came here in the little time I had, | :48:39. | :48:44. | |
it was shortly after my appointment, within a week that I was here, but | :48:44. | :48:50. | |
I was not in the Department for the whole week, but I was a steward the | :48:50. | :48:56. | |
award of the franchise was safe, it was technically said. Do I regret | :48:56. | :49:03. | |
not asking more questions? I think I would have been sure that | :49:03. | :49:07. | |
although there were some small issues that had come to light, I | :49:07. | :49:11. | |
was assured that would have had no change on the overall awarding of | :49:11. | :49:20. | |
the franchise. That was the new Transport Secretary before the | :49:20. | :49:25. | |
Transport Select Committee in the Commons. Is it time to | :49:25. | :49:29. | |
renationalise the trains? Ken Livingstone has long argued they | :49:29. | :49:33. | |
should be taken back under state control. We are joined by Richard | :49:33. | :49:37. | |
Wellings, from the Institute of Economic Affairs, he thinks they | :49:37. | :49:41. | |
should stay in private hands. Summarise the case for state | :49:41. | :49:48. | |
ownership. You go back to Adam Smith. If you have a monopoly, | :49:49. | :49:55. | |
people will still permute. The only time was when British Airways was | :49:55. | :50:00. | |
privatise, they were not ripped off because they had competition will | :50:00. | :50:04. | |
start we have got the highest energy prices in Europe. If you | :50:04. | :50:10. | |
give somebody a monopoly or a cartel, they will rip us off. | :50:10. | :50:16. | |
disagree. There have been several successes on the railway. A big | :50:16. | :50:20. | |
increase in passenger numbers and freight, investment in the | :50:20. | :50:27. | |
infrastructure, but the process is we did not have proper | :50:27. | :50:31. | |
privatisation. Civil servants decide to run the trains. Somebody | :50:31. | :50:38. | |
has to decide to the franchise goes too. That is not a genuine | :50:38. | :50:46. | |
privatise stretch. If you look at vertical integration, the same | :50:46. | :50:49. | |
company owned the trains and the track and that would have been more | :50:49. | :50:55. | |
wet sufficient. We can see the difference. In London the Mayor | :50:56. | :51:00. | |
controls the bus companies and regulates them and they have to run | :51:00. | :51:05. | |
as the Mayor directs. Outside London it is a free for all. | :51:05. | :51:13. | |
Anybody going on a bus in London, and anyone getting on outside | :51:13. | :51:17. | |
London, they will all say in London they are brilliant and outside it | :51:17. | :51:24. | |
is ghastly. It is a regulated market? The Mayor tells them how | :51:24. | :51:28. | |
often they will run the service. Basically it could be run by the | :51:28. | :51:34. | |
Meyer. One of the arguments was British Rail was taking up too much | :51:34. | :51:39. | |
in subsidy. When I look at the figures, now we have privatise it | :51:39. | :51:44. | |
is a lot more. Over �5 billion worth of subsidies going into the | :51:45. | :51:51. | |
railways. It is a massive problem, it has tripled since privatisation. | :51:51. | :51:56. | |
That is a lot of money. It is disgraceful. In it is not | :51:56. | :52:00. | |
privatisation. The railway companies are sub-contractors for | :52:00. | :52:06. | |
the state. We should try it proper privatisation. What does that mean? | :52:06. | :52:11. | |
We get away from all the layers of bureaucracy, as we see with the | :52:11. | :52:16. | |
Civil Service taking a role and it would bring costs down. Who would | :52:16. | :52:21. | |
decide to run a train from London to Manchester. The company would | :52:21. | :52:26. | |
buy both the tracks and run the trains and it would be after them. | :52:26. | :52:30. | |
There is no railway in the world that makes a profit, everyone has | :52:30. | :52:36. | |
to be subsidised. That is not the case. In the 19th century the | :52:36. | :52:42. | |
railways were built by the private sector. It is a changed world. | :52:42. | :52:48. | |
there is more competition so the monopoly threat is reduced. | :52:48. | :52:52. | |
watched this when I was Mayor. I brought in a lot of Americans who | :52:52. | :52:57. | |
ran big things and they negotiated quite prettily with the contractors. | :52:57. | :53:02. | |
Part of the problem is it is now the Civil Service. Something like | :53:02. | :53:07. | |
the Richard Branson fiasco comes up, they might negotiate a contract | :53:07. | :53:12. | |
every few years. But you need people who do this every year. | :53:12. | :53:16. | |
Civil servants do not have those skills to negotiate with giant | :53:16. | :53:23. | |
corporations. On his side up the argument, passenger numbers are up. | :53:23. | :53:27. | |
I do not know if the camera can get this. This graph is quite | :53:27. | :53:36. | |
remarkable. Suddenly after privatisation it goes up. Under | :53:36. | :53:39. | |
British Rail the number of passengers had been in gentle | :53:39. | :53:47. | |
decline. Passenger numbers are up, apparently from the surveys | :53:47. | :53:50. | |
passenger satisfaction is high, and we have one of the safest railways | :53:50. | :53:56. | |
in Europe. Public transport is taking off again because travelling | :53:56. | :54:00. | |
on the motorway is a nightmare, people are more mobile than they | :54:00. | :54:07. | |
used to be a. In London we have had the same thing, a 50% increase in | :54:07. | :54:11. | |
bus and Tube usage. People are turning to public transport. You | :54:11. | :54:16. | |
would have to be out of your mind to drive a car. I will give you the | :54:16. | :54:21. | |
final word. We need to build on this and think about the | :54:21. | :54:25. | |
fundamental stretch of the rail industry and can we get a subsidy | :54:25. | :54:30. | |
is down to a reasonable level? you very much for becoming part of | :54:30. | :54:35. | |
our debate will stop facial hair, there is not enough of it about | :54:35. | :54:41. | |
these days, as Ken will agree. Turn the clock back 30 years and any man | :54:41. | :54:48. | |
worth his salt would be sprouting some fine plumage on his upper lip. | :54:48. | :54:54. | |
But now we have got something called Movember. Once a year for a | :54:54. | :54:58. | |
one-month men across the world it to express themselves and strut | :54:58. | :55:03. | |
their stuff by growing a fine pair of handlebars. It is for a good | :55:03. | :55:08. | |
cause and we will be speaking to a number of MPs who are up to the | :55:08. | :55:13. | |
challenge. First, here are some time -- parliamentarians who used | :55:13. | :55:19. | |
to be brave enough to sport a fine moustache, and also some | :55:19. | :55:29. | |
:55:29. | :55:48. | ||
suggestions for others who can be # 100 hairs make a man! #. It looks | :55:49. | :55:54. | |
like something from the Wild West. All the coalition members had | :55:54. | :56:01. | |
droopy ones! I am joined by the two MPs who are going to have a go. Why | :56:01. | :56:08. | |
are you going to do this? I am going to try and grow a moustache. | :56:08. | :56:14. | |
In the Somerset when I was on holiday I did not shave for a week | :56:14. | :56:19. | |
and I did not see the defence. But it is a very good cause raising | :56:19. | :56:24. | |
awareness about prostate cancer and I am willing to make an idiot of | :56:24. | :56:29. | |
myself. You have only got one month. It is the month of November you get | :56:29. | :56:36. | |
to do this. That is right and I feel like my attempt is a bit like | :56:36. | :56:43. | |
their UK economy, a lack of growth. But 10,000 men a year die of | :56:43. | :56:48. | |
prostate cancer. If we can make a difference, both in fund raising | :56:48. | :56:52. | |
and awareness, that will be a good thing, because it is a tableau | :56:52. | :56:57. | |
subject. A lot of men do not like to talk about it or go and get | :56:57. | :57:03. | |
check-ups and so on. Are you raising money? Our people | :57:03. | :57:08. | |
sponsoring you? Yes, I will be setting up a website page and I | :57:09. | :57:14. | |
hope people will sponsor me. Also Royal Mail have pledged for every | :57:14. | :57:18. | |
pound we raised, they will match that will stop her abuse started | :57:18. | :57:28. | |
:57:28. | :57:28. | ||
yet because I cannot see anything? Yes, I had started. You famously | :57:28. | :57:34. | |
had one once, but I am told you would never bring it back. My wife | :57:34. | :57:39. | |
said she would have never taken up with me if I still had a moustache. | :57:39. | :57:43. | |
But it was the end of the Sixties and I thought I would have more | :57:44. | :57:48. | |
success with bells if I had a moustache. And did you? I do not | :57:48. | :57:54. | |
think so. I tried a beard, but my beard looked like a battered toilet | :57:54. | :58:00. | |
brush. They do not take off. These things come and go with fashion, | :58:00. | :58:05. | |
there were a lot of MPs with moustaches when I came in. Will you | :58:05. | :58:13. | |
keep it? I would doubt so, but I know some people who are cutting | :58:13. | :58:19. | |
their privet hedges into moustaches. One to about you? It in a month I | :58:19. | :58:24. | |
have managed to grow a fantastic moustache, which I doubt, I will | :58:24. | :58:29. | |
reconsider it. You have both managed expectations well, we are | :58:29. | :58:34. | |
not expecting much. Comeback in a month's time and tell us how it is | :58:34. | :58:37. | |
going. A special thanks to Ken | :58:37. | :58:43. |