01/11/2012 Daily Politics


01/11/2012

Andrew Neil is joined by former Mayor of London Ken Livingstone to discuss the latest news from Westminster, including the fallout from the Commons rebellion over the EU budget.


Similar Content

Browse content similar to 01/11/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

Afternoon, folks. Welcome to the Daily Politics. Are the ghosts of

:00:43.:00:48.

Conservative past coming back to want David Cameron? The ayes to the

:00:48.:00:56.

right, 307. The noes to the left, 294. 53 Conservative MPs rebel on

:00:56.:01:00.

Europe. Last night they were joined by Labour to inflict a Commons

:01:00.:01:06.

defeat on the Government. They tell the Prime Minister and EU budget

:01:06.:01:10.

freeze is not enough, they want a real-terms cut. If the Prime

:01:10.:01:13.

Minister cannot get that in Brussels, will MPs reject whatever

:01:13.:01:20.

he does get? Gone With the wind? After a week of confusion, are

:01:20.:01:26.

onshore wind farms done for? And the political moustache makes a

:01:26.:01:35.

comeback for Movember. But they All of that is coming up in the

:01:36.:01:42.

next hour. Who more appropriate to join us on this All Saints Day, a

:01:42.:01:46.

political saint of his own making, the former mayor of London. But so

:01:46.:01:52.

would not melt in his mouth. Welcome back to the show. Let's

:01:52.:01:56.

start with what turned into an All Hallows' Eve fright night for the

:01:56.:02:00.

Prime Minister. Scary! He was defeated by an unholy alliance of

:02:00.:02:05.

53 of his own MPs and the Labour Party. Together, they voted for a

:02:05.:02:10.

real-terms reduction in the EU budget, rather than the real-terms

:02:10.:02:14.

freeze that the Prime Minister is after. It is a cash increase, but

:02:14.:02:17.

for inflation. That is what the Prime Minister wants. With

:02:17.:02:21.

impeccable timing, debit Prime Minister Nick Clegg has been making

:02:21.:02:25.

a speech on Europe this morning. Ever helpful, he's attacked

:02:25.:02:31.

Conservative rebels but, also, the Labour leadership. Their change of

:02:31.:02:36.

heart is dishonest. It is hypocritical. Worst of all,

:02:36.:02:42.

Labour's plan could cost the taxpayer more, not less. In pushing

:02:42.:02:46.

a completely unrealistic position on the EU budget, one that is miles

:02:46.:02:50.

away from any other country's position, Labour will have

:02:50.:02:57.

absolutely no hope of getting a budget deal agreed, driving the EU

:02:57.:03:05.

budget built up instead, over which It may have been opportunistic, it

:03:05.:03:10.

may have even been hypocritical. But it is pretty good politics by

:03:10.:03:14.

Labour? I think the world has changed. A whole generation of MPs

:03:14.:03:19.

like myself, who grew up influenced by the war, saw Europe as a real

:03:19.:03:22.

issue, the world has moved on. Nobody in France or Italy expects

:03:22.:03:27.

to be invaded by Germany or even Russia. Now people are focusing on

:03:27.:03:31.

what it costs. The EU budget makes the Ministry of Defence budget look

:03:31.:03:37.

responsible and well managed. cannot be that bad! All of those

:03:37.:03:42.

agricultural subsidies, that do not go to small farmers. It's mostly

:03:42.:03:46.

big business and half of them are American. The Cypriots are in the

:03:46.:03:53.

chair at the moment. They have a �5 billion cut proposed in common

:03:53.:03:58.

agricultural subsidies. 5 billion, in a one trillion budget. The

:03:58.:04:03.

French have thrown their toys out of the pram. It is not French

:04:03.:04:07.

farmers getting this, which is what is stupid. I think France does not

:04:07.:04:10.

publish the details of who gets what. That is because they are

:04:10.:04:17.

ashamed. We have all had those horrific tales, again and again, of

:04:17.:04:21.

terrible waste. When everything else is being cut, if we are all

:04:21.:04:25.

honest, we know that it's not going to be easy for any time and the

:04:25.:04:29.

rest of this decade. So why should the European budget be exempt from

:04:29.:04:33.

real scrutiny? It is what the British people think? I suspect it

:04:33.:04:36.

is what everybody in Europe thinks, but nobody gets a chance to put it

:04:36.:04:41.

out there. We are going to come back to this, but why do you think

:04:41.:04:47.

these things don't play as much in Germany or France, or even Italy?

:04:47.:04:52.

don't know. You have always had this strong Euro-sceptic block of

:04:52.:04:56.

opinion here. That has kept fuelling it. That really wasn't

:04:56.:05:01.

there in Europe after the war. Because they had all been invaded...

:05:01.:05:06.

For the reasons he gave? It's time they got their act together. The

:05:06.:05:09.

scrutiny you get in German politics is very good. But nobody is

:05:09.:05:13.

scrutinising his nightmare. I always thought once you got a

:05:13.:05:17.

European Parliament, what do you need to commission for? You have

:05:17.:05:20.

elected MPs, let them run the budget and be accountable. This

:05:20.:05:25.

morning, Chancellor George Osborne said that the real test in the EU

:05:25.:05:29.

budget is still to come. That's if the Prime Minister comes back from

:05:29.:05:32.

Brussels after negotiations, with something less than a real-terms

:05:32.:05:38.

reduction in the EU budget. Will the Conservative rebels join again

:05:38.:05:45.

with Labour to reject it? They were in no mood to compensate last night.

:05:45.:05:49.

This Prime Minister has been clear that the remorseless rise in

:05:49.:05:52.

spending in the EU has to stop and it will stop. If there is no cut or

:05:52.:05:58.

no real freeze, there is no deal. The framework will be deterred.

:05:58.:06:01.

goal today is to stand up for the taxpayer. I know this is not

:06:02.:06:06.

something that is only the preserve of these ventures. I know there are

:06:06.:06:10.

some members opposite who also want to rise above some of the partisan

:06:10.:06:14.

discussions today and make sure that we have a decision from the

:06:14.:06:19.

debates that we have this evening. A decision that does the best thing

:06:19.:06:24.

for the taxpayer. What an array to choose from! I'll give way to the

:06:24.:06:30.

honourable gentleman. Would not be Honourable Gentleman agree that the

:06:30.:06:35.

proposal put forward by the Government in the face of

:06:35.:06:38.

extraordinary, irrational provocation from the commission is

:06:38.:06:45.

extremely sensible and deserves the support of the whole house? I had

:06:45.:06:49.

police officers who came to my surgery. They understand that their

:06:49.:06:52.

pay is frozen. They are less happy about changes to terms and

:06:52.:06:55.

conditions, less happy about not getting their increments. What they

:06:55.:06:59.

do not understand is why other elements of the Budget, in

:06:59.:07:02.

particular the European Union, should be guaranteed inflationary

:07:02.:07:05.

increases, letter don't inflationary increases or of the

:07:05.:07:10.

way through to 2020. -- let alone inflationary increases all of the

:07:10.:07:15.

way through to 2020. I'm grateful to the Honourable Member, who I

:07:15.:07:19.

have the utmost respect for. Does he have the utmost respect for

:07:19.:07:22.

members opposite who voted time and time again to give away powers and

:07:22.:07:27.

money to the European Union, and now propose to wrap themselves in

:07:27.:07:31.

the Euro-sceptic flag and walk through the lobbies this afternoon?

:07:31.:07:37.

I think this multi- national framework, or EU budget, is insane.

:07:37.:07:42.

To ask for the European Union to ask for a 10% real increase above

:07:42.:07:48.

inflation is insulting to our constituents. In it is insulting to

:07:48.:07:51.

the people of Spain and Italy and Portugal, and Ireland, who are

:07:51.:07:57.

being told to pull in their belts. The if the Prime Minister achieves

:07:57.:08:03.

a freeze in the European Union budget, he will have done something

:08:03.:08:08.

that no other Prime Minister has managed to achieve. No, I am not

:08:08.:08:12.

going to give way. All that is happening on these benches is

:08:12.:08:15.

whenever the Prime Minister says he is going to achieve something,

:08:15.:08:23.

there are those that are somewhat self-indulgent and are seeking to

:08:23.:08:28.

set an even higher hurdle for him to jump over. It is unreasonable

:08:28.:08:34.

and unfair. If this party hopes to be in government after the next

:08:34.:08:37.

General Election, it has got to get a grip and start supporting the

:08:37.:08:44.

Prime Minister. It is no good in the European elections in 2014

:08:44.:08:47.

wrapping ourselves in the Union flag if tonight we take it off and

:08:47.:08:51.

wrap ourselves in the stars of the European Union flag. This is a

:08:51.:08:55.

moment of truth, this is a moment of decision. We can send a united

:08:55.:09:00.

message, as a parliament, as a nation, to Brussels. Let's make a

:09:00.:09:04.

difference. If we are not making a difference, we might as well go

:09:04.:09:10.

home. At that point, he went home. No, good clips from a lively

:09:10.:09:16.

Commons debate. We like it when that happens on the Daily Politics.

:09:16.:09:21.

Let's continue. We are joined by Bernard Jenkin, one of the

:09:21.:09:27.

Conservative rebels, Nadhim Zahawi, who voted with the Government, and

:09:27.:09:31.

Lib Dem MP Martin Horwood. I think we know how he voted as well. You

:09:31.:09:35.

voted for the rebels. We know, by looking across the Channel, that

:09:35.:09:39.

the best the Prime Minister is going to get is a freeze in real

:09:39.:09:43.

terms on the existing budget. Nobody else is talking about a huge

:09:43.:09:49.

cut. Why lumber him with this vote? First of all, it is advisory.

:09:49.:09:53.

understand that, not binding. Prime Minister could have easily

:09:53.:10:00.

have said, yes, I accept this amendment, I will do my best, but I

:10:00.:10:04.

am pretty powerless. That is the reality. The people saying it is

:10:04.:10:07.

frightfully irresponsible, we must not pretend we are powerless, we

:10:07.:10:11.

have become powerless. What this vote was about was a message from

:10:11.:10:14.

the British people. We don't care what your problems are. We are not

:10:14.:10:20.

happy with this relationship. That message is now getting through to

:10:20.:10:24.

Parliament. It was about a lot more than the Budget in your view?

:10:24.:10:27.

some of the, this is a seismic moment in British politics. There

:10:27.:10:36.

are only 53 of you, it is not seismic. Even the Labour vote, it

:10:36.:10:41.

is basically a pro-Europe party, they now realise they haven't got a

:10:41.:10:44.

chance of being elected unless they at least pretend to be Euro-sceptic.

:10:44.:10:48.

I think it would be madness to leave, because so much of our trade

:10:48.:10:53.

is tied up in it. But there is no reason why we cannot say there is a

:10:53.:10:57.

lot wrong here and a lot of waste. I used to be in the House of

:10:57.:11:00.

Commons, the fact I was there didn't been I stopped complaining

:11:00.:11:02.

about their waist of your government and the way you

:11:02.:11:08.

squandered so much money. -- the wastage in your government. Do you

:11:08.:11:13.

think that Labour will have to become... I understand they were

:11:13.:11:16.

not say that we should leave, but will they become more Europe

:11:16.:11:24.

sceptic? When the Tories first applied to join the Common Market,

:11:24.:11:27.

they said it was the end of thousands of years of British

:11:27.:11:34.

history. I don't think either of their main parties are four or or

:11:34.:11:41.

against, solidly. The Lib Dems are united. Labour had a real problem.

:11:41.:11:45.

Margaret Hodge and said she hated his vote, it was political

:11:45.:11:49.

opportunism. Bernard, you did not play him on your clip, a brilliant

:11:49.:11:54.

speech. The. Margaret he was making, there are these vibrations, I call

:11:54.:11:59.

them tremors. People do feel that we ought to try and make sure that

:11:59.:12:02.

we try our hardest to cut the budget. That is what they are going

:12:02.:12:06.

to try and do. When Bernard says we are helpless, I disagree. The

:12:06.:12:09.

European Commission would not be panicking and putting a press

:12:09.:12:12.

releases as to what the consequences would be if we had a

:12:12.:12:17.

freeze in the budget in real terms, if we were helpless. Do you buy the

:12:17.:12:20.

line of the rebels that bypassing this motion it is helpful to the

:12:20.:12:24.

Prime Minister, it stiffens his resolve? He now cannot come back

:12:24.:12:31.

from Brussels with anything less than a freeze? Do you buy that?

:12:31.:12:35.

voted the other way. To try to push back the reins this relentless

:12:35.:12:39.

increase in budgets, you have to build alliances. We had a alliance

:12:39.:12:42.

with Germany, France, the Netherlands and Finland. The big

:12:42.:12:46.

countries are on our side. 17 countries are net beneficiaries.

:12:46.:12:50.

They will not be voting to cut the budget. When you build that

:12:50.:12:53.

Alliance and promise that what you really want is a real-terms freeze,

:12:53.:12:57.

there is no point going back and saying, you know what, I change my

:12:57.:13:04.

mind, I wanted it more now. Who is on the side of a freeze? Germany,

:13:04.:13:07.

France and a Nicolas Sarkozy, I hope Hollande will deliver on that.

:13:07.:13:12.

The Netherlands, Finland, they have signed up. In negotiating, you have

:13:12.:13:16.

to be consistent. That is why I was supporting the Government. But the

:13:16.:13:18.

Prime Minister needs to listen to Parliament, which he will do.

:13:18.:13:23.

Parliament has spoken last night. It delivered a very clear message.

:13:23.:13:29.

The Lib Dem position, are they clearly in favour of aims real-

:13:29.:13:35.

terms freeze? By yes, at least. What we have negotiated his a

:13:35.:13:39.

position that could potentially be a cut if we can negotiate that. But

:13:39.:13:46.

it's an unrealistic barter set the Government. Mission impossible?

:13:46.:13:50.

have the Conservative Party chronically disunited over Europe.

:13:50.:13:54.

This vote last night has probably underlined our negotiating position.

:13:54.:13:59.

If you nail your mass to a completely unrealistic objective of

:13:59.:14:04.

demanding a cut, when you haven't built the alliances that the deans

:14:04.:14:10.

are how we was talking about, you will not be taken seriously. --

:14:10.:14:15.

that Nadhim Zahawi was talking about. At least Bernard and his

:14:15.:14:17.

Euro-sceptic friends have been consistent. The hypocrisy of the

:14:17.:14:23.

Labour Party last night was unbelievable. It observed about a

:14:23.:14:27.

dozen successive increases in the EU budget when they were in power.

:14:27.:14:33.

You supported them all? This was a Europe-wide budget that was

:14:33.:14:40.

negotiated. A promise to renegotiate the common agricultural

:14:40.:14:43.

policy that was never delivered! There was more money available.

:14:43.:14:47.

That is gone forever. When we are cutting benefits for ordinary

:14:47.:14:51.

people, seeing people really struggling, you have to say to

:14:51.:14:53.

everybody, don't just squeeze the British budget, we should be

:14:53.:15:03.
:15:03.:15:04.

squeezing the European budget as well. I think that is consensus.

:15:04.:15:06.

When the Prime Minister goes to Brussels, I don't think anything is

:15:06.:15:09.

going to happen this side of Christmas because they can't get an

:15:10.:15:13.

agreement. There comes a time when the British Prime Minister, he

:15:13.:15:18.

looks and says, I can't we get this real-terms freeze. They have picked

:15:18.:15:23.

it up more. Do the Lib Dems then support him using the veto? We will

:15:23.:15:27.

support the Prime Minister getting the best deal possible for Britain

:15:27.:15:31.

out of these negotiations. Last night has damaged that. What is the

:15:31.:15:34.

answer to my question? Will you support in using the veto if he

:15:34.:15:38.

cannot deliver your policy, which is a real-terms freeze? I think

:15:38.:15:41.

it's helpful in negotiations for the other partners in the

:15:41.:15:44.

negotiations to think we might use the veto. I don't think that's

:15:44.:15:48.

particularly unhelpful. If the Prime Minister does, can he count

:15:48.:15:51.

on the support of the Lib Dems? think the Prime Minister can count

:15:51.:15:56.

on our support for negotiating the best possible deal. That's the kind

:15:56.:16:03.

of thing you don't actually reveal in advance. You are not going to

:16:03.:16:07.

come on and say you will support in getting the worst possible deal!

:16:07.:16:10.

is the Ed Balls school of diplomacy, setting out your red lines before

:16:10.:16:20.
:16:20.:16:27.

$:/STARTFEED. Cameron will go into the meeting saying, I have got all

:16:27.:16:33.

these nutters on my back. When you look at the polls, only one in 20

:16:33.:16:39.

people regard the European Union as a vital issue. That is from 20th

:16:39.:16:44.

October 12. Only 5% mentioned the EU as an important issue facing

:16:44.:16:50.

Britain today. What do they think about tax, standards of living,

:16:51.:16:55.

benefits for disabled people? Public spending and borrowing? This

:16:55.:17:01.

is an issue that overlaps with all of those things. And what about

:17:01.:17:05.

bringing paedophiles and terrorists back to this country to face

:17:05.:17:13.

justice? We have got all sorts of agreements. You are allowing Euro-

:17:13.:17:21.

scepticism to weaken Britain's stance. I want to be on a BBC

:17:21.:17:26.

programme that does not mention the word paedophile. Is your party not

:17:26.:17:31.

in danger of going back to a civil war over Europe. You are all Euro-

:17:31.:17:38.

sceptics. You have got degrees of Euro-scepticism. Do you want TV

:17:38.:17:48.

you? No, I do not. Do you? No he does not. You had very sound people

:17:48.:17:54.

voting last night. They are sound people are in Europe. Dominic voted

:17:54.:17:59.

with the Government. The party is not split, the party wants to

:17:59.:18:06.

support the Prime Minister in cutting the European budget. There

:18:06.:18:12.

are different factions of Euro- sceptics. The Conservative Party

:18:12.:18:17.

needs to get its act together. is not like Maastricht when there

:18:17.:18:27.

was a real split. He is too young to have lived through that.

:18:27.:18:32.

showed a speech that was a bit more like the Maastricht debate. The

:18:32.:18:37.

Conservative Party is far more united about the European Union.

:18:37.:18:44.

This was about... Do you want a referendum that says in or out?

:18:44.:18:50.

would like a mandate referendum. Do the British people agree the

:18:50.:18:55.

British Government should negotiate a new deal about trade? Nick Clegg

:18:55.:19:03.

this morning, he said, he described the Prime Minister's plans to

:19:03.:19:08.

repatriate powers, which is the long-term aim of the Conservatives

:19:08.:19:14.

as a, quote, false promises wrapped in the Union Jack. Is it that no

:19:14.:19:22.

major powers should be in a packed? I do not think it is an unwise

:19:22.:19:28.

thing to do. So will it is not a false promise? There are some

:19:28.:19:32.

powers you can repatriate through agreement and negotiation.

:19:33.:19:38.

Fisheries is an example. The promise that you can repatriate

:19:38.:19:41.

whole sell large chunks of our relationship with Europe is

:19:41.:19:49.

unrealistic. We are still all on the European train. We are not

:19:49.:19:54.

going to be in the front driving, because we do not want to be in the

:19:54.:19:58.

European federation. But all the rules that exist on the single

:19:58.:20:01.

market are going to be dominated by the group at the front. Take

:20:01.:20:06.

banking union, they will decide what regulations they want. It will

:20:06.:20:10.

not take long for the commission to decide, let's make it a rule for

:20:10.:20:16.

everybody, and we will be out voted. If they are going to be a

:20:16.:20:20.

federation and have fiscal and banking union, we need a completely

:20:20.:20:24.

different kind of relationship. Otherwise we will be ruled by

:20:25.:20:29.

federal Europe and have no control. We have become so semi-detached

:20:29.:20:34.

from the rest of Europe that we are in the west of possible worlds and

:20:34.:20:38.

we lose influence. Like Norway and Switzerland you have to comply with

:20:38.:20:43.

dozens of rules. I do not agree with that. A but they do not have

:20:43.:20:49.

any influence over it. Europe and the euro-zone is going to change.

:20:49.:20:53.

Every expert says they have to change because of the problems they

:20:53.:20:58.

have. Once that happens if there is an opportunity for us to have a

:20:58.:21:02.

different settlement. The British public will then and should have

:21:02.:21:06.

the right to buy their back or not bat that new relationship.

:21:06.:21:12.

Repatriation is a longer term aim, you probably have more of that in

:21:12.:21:18.

your manifesto. If the Prime Minister comes back from Brussels

:21:18.:21:23.

with a real-terms freeze, not with a cut, but with a real-terms freeze

:21:23.:21:29.

from 2014-2020, you will be happy with that? If he came back and said,

:21:29.:21:33.

we have got the real terms freeze which is better than what we might

:21:33.:21:38.

have got, but we know we are stuffed because these arrangements

:21:38.:21:42.

are completely unfair. The EU now has the right to grab more of our

:21:42.:21:47.

money every yet whether we like it or not. What he will also have to

:21:47.:21:53.

say is that this has to change. In the long term this has to change.

:21:53.:21:59.

By you are not going to vote against a real-terms freeze?

:21:59.:22:05.

think he will be leaving the public behind them. I will ask again for

:22:05.:22:09.

the purposes of clarification, if he comes back with a real-terms

:22:09.:22:14.

freeze, you will not vote against it? I do not know, I will wait and

:22:14.:22:21.

see. I certainly will not. Labour are all over the place. Douglas

:22:21.:22:25.

Alexander was saying he does not know what he is going to do. He is

:22:25.:22:33.

waiting to see what the deal is. said he would not know whether to

:22:33.:22:39.

vote for a real-terms freeze. will be an impressive piece of

:22:39.:22:43.

negotiation given last night. If we triumph over that, that would be

:22:43.:22:49.

good. There will be no veto and no deal. Then the budget rises every

:22:49.:22:58.

year by inflation. Then they will put it off by December. Getting a

:22:58.:23:05.

real freeze is a great result. he does not get a deal, he gets

:23:05.:23:11.

what he wants, a real-terms freeze. Annual budgets may put the prices

:23:11.:23:16.

up for British consumers. That is the nonsense. They really need to

:23:16.:23:24.

have a massive change, the more you listen to this. They've voted for

:23:24.:23:34.

an even bigger budgets. The Labour MEPs voted for a huge increase.

:23:34.:23:40.

are on dodgy ground. The Socialists in the European Parliament voted

:23:40.:23:45.

for an increase. We are governed by someone we do not elect. There is a

:23:45.:23:49.

parliament, get rid of the commission. Bureaucracy is

:23:49.:23:57.

determining how we run our things. Eruption in British politics. What

:23:57.:24:06.

is the Government's policy on wind power? I ask that quite a lot. The

:24:06.:24:08.

new energy minister of state, a Conservative MP, John Hayes

:24:08.:24:13.

declared Britain had, quote, enough onshore wind farms and suggested

:24:13.:24:18.

future projects would be blocked. But he was promptly slapped down by

:24:18.:24:24.

his boss, Energy Secretary Ed Davey. He is a Lib Dem and he says the

:24:24.:24:30.

policy on wind farms has not changed. Confused? Me as well. They

:24:30.:24:35.

have been in the Commons this morning answering questions from E

:24:35.:24:40.

-- MPs seeking clarity. I asked him why he was failing to stand up to

:24:40.:24:46.

his colleagues who want to kill off the industry. I have to disappoint

:24:46.:24:49.

the Right Honourable Lady because my Conservative colleagues and I

:24:49.:24:54.

are working very closely on this matter. That was what the former

:24:54.:24:59.

energy minister. After the outburst yesterday, how closely would he say

:24:59.:25:05.

they were working together now? honourable friend suggested I used

:25:05.:25:12.

the words intimately, but I can say we are working very closely. Listen,

:25:12.:25:18.

Mr Speaker, I will face the house as you requested. He and I may

:25:18.:25:24.

occasionally disagree on issues of substance, but I have to say I

:25:24.:25:31.

really admire his style. So, any clearer? Not meet either. Joining

:25:31.:25:36.

me now is Caroline Lucas and James Delingpole, the climate change

:25:36.:25:42.

sceptic and writer, who was standing as an anti- wind farm

:25:42.:25:45.

candidate in the Corby by-election, but you have pulled out on the

:25:45.:25:50.

basis you have one. Absolutely, it was the shortest and most

:25:50.:25:56.

successful election campaign of all times. I achieved my aims. I was

:25:56.:26:00.

not in it for a tawdry place in Parliament, I wanted to rescue the

:26:00.:26:06.

British countryside from the wind menace. There are 2600 wind

:26:06.:26:11.

turbines already completed and running onshore and another 3000

:26:11.:26:15.

waiting for approval. I cannot do anything about the ones already in

:26:15.:26:20.

place, but I hope Semtex in a few years will sort out that problem.

:26:20.:26:28.

In the meantime I have achieved... Union terrorists? I have the

:26:28.:26:35.

expertise to destroy these things. In your own native land, Scotland

:26:35.:26:39.

is being ruined, the land of your forefathers is being destroyed by

:26:39.:26:44.

wind farms. I am not arguing the rights and wrongs of wind farms, I

:26:44.:26:49.

am trying to work out how you can claim you have won it there are

:26:49.:26:55.

another 3000 in the pipeline. is a remarkable turnaround in

:26:55.:26:59.

Government policy. It is confusing depending on who you listen to and

:26:59.:27:05.

is another example of the coalition being all over the place. Is there

:27:05.:27:11.

now going to be a drag on onshore wind, or will there be a very few

:27:11.:27:17.

more turbines going up? You are right, there is complete chaos in

:27:17.:27:21.

the coalition. That gives a signal to investors that Britain is not

:27:21.:27:26.

serious about investing in the economy. My worry is that the

:27:27.:27:32.

Semtex is going to be aimed at cheaper fuel bills, jobs and a boom

:27:32.:27:38.

in the economy. He is coming out with frankly unscientific so --

:27:38.:27:43.

statements. It is very entertaining, but not helpful. I am surprised you

:27:44.:27:50.

are defending wind farms. You could not get anything antique green than

:27:50.:27:57.

a wind turbine. They kill birds, they are inefficient, the increase

:27:57.:28:01.

Sirte 2. They are so unreliable and intermittent, wind up being wind,

:28:01.:28:05.

they require 100% backed up by fossil fuel power on spinning

:28:05.:28:13.

reserve. What you get his two forms of electricity being generated.

:28:13.:28:18.

That is a perfect case in point of what I am saying. It is very

:28:18.:28:24.

entertaining, but it lacks in any factual grounding. You do not need

:28:24.:28:31.

100% back up. Och energy generation needs some back-up. Third, if you

:28:31.:28:35.

have connection with the rest of Europe, you can make the most of

:28:35.:28:41.

when it is windy in other parts of Europe. That is a huge investments.

:28:41.:28:47.

It is less than a massive new fleet of nuclear power stations. Do you

:28:47.:28:53.

not care about...? Britain more than almost anywhere else is one of

:28:53.:28:56.

the best sites for wind farms because of the nature of our

:28:56.:29:01.

climate. I personally like them, they are attractive, it is cheaper

:29:01.:29:08.

to put them on land that in the seat. The simple fact is we are

:29:08.:29:11.

they get on top of our carbon emissions and bring them down, or

:29:12.:29:15.

we may not have a human civilisation by the end of this

:29:15.:29:22.

century. We have just seen this devastation in North America in an

:29:22.:29:24.

election campaign when neither candidate has met and climate

:29:24.:29:32.

change. Is it the result of climate change? About once or twice a

:29:32.:29:35.

decade there would be a catastrophic event, but now they

:29:35.:29:42.

are coming more often. We are heading for three or four. This is

:29:42.:29:46.

junk science from a few selected sites on the internet. It is

:29:46.:29:52.

dreadful. There is no serious scientists I am aware of who is a

:29:52.:29:58.

sceptic. The key thing is not how much science I know or how much you

:29:58.:30:04.

know, it is about the majority of scientific opinion. When you have

:30:05.:30:09.

got hundreds of scientists and if I put it to them what they like to

:30:09.:30:19.
:30:19.:30:29.

listen to you, or were they like to By my arithmetic, there are about

:30:29.:30:34.

4000 turbines, currently turning in the UK and its waters. This morning,

:30:34.:30:38.

how much electricity were they generating as a percentage of the

:30:38.:30:42.

total amount. Accounted a maths well enough, but I can tell you

:30:42.:30:48.

that a modern turbine will produce enough electricity for 1000 homes.

:30:48.:30:54.

As a percentage? I reckon it is probably less than 5%. Less than 5%.

:30:54.:31:01.

But we are just beginning. Let me give the answer. It is 3%. For all

:31:01.:31:08.

of that damage. If 4000 turbines produce only 3% of our electricity

:31:08.:31:14.

this morning, then we have a target of over 30% of electricity by 2020,

:31:14.:31:18.

which is only eight years away. You are going to need a hell of a lot

:31:18.:31:21.

of turbines? Nobody is suggesting we are doing it all by wind

:31:21.:31:26.

turbines. We are using a range of renewable technologies and energy

:31:26.:31:30.

efficiency. That is the Cinderella of the debate. According to the

:31:30.:31:34.

Government's own figures, we could save 40%. Energy efficiency does

:31:34.:31:42.

not change the percentages of where the energy is coming from. On the

:31:42.:31:45.

plan, most of them getting renewables up to a third of the

:31:45.:31:53.

total electricity, most of that comes from wind power. The biggest

:31:53.:31:55.

way of coping with this is insulated your home probably.

:31:55.:32:05.

Immediately, our electricity bill was down. Yeah, that will work!

:32:05.:32:11.

Economies that are far more successful are rely on wind energy

:32:11.:32:15.

more than we are. The last time, you admitted to being a watermelon,

:32:15.:32:20.

you said, I'm proud to be a watermelon. He's plugging his book

:32:20.:32:27.

now. In a sentence, what is government policy on onshore wind?

:32:27.:32:30.

I think they had a massive U-turn and Ed Davey does not want to admit

:32:31.:32:35.

it. It is completely chaotic, I hope very much that James is a

:32:35.:32:41.

trike. If he is, it's very bad for the British economy and fuel bills.

:32:41.:32:50.

Now, it was Enoch Powell that said all political careers end in

:32:50.:32:54.

failure. I guess that included his own. What happens to the politician

:32:54.:33:02.

who finds himself or herself out of power? How do they cope when the

:33:02.:33:08.

interview requests dry up from the daily politics, they are sat

:33:08.:33:11.

watching a box-set of the David Porter exact home and ministers are

:33:11.:33:15.

not return your calls? In a moment will talk to Ken Livingstone. First,

:33:15.:33:25.
:33:25.:33:32.

we have been finding out if there There is nothing as ex-as an ex-MP,

:33:32.:33:36.

as the saying goes. One minute you are a star turn at the Palace of

:33:36.:33:40.

Westminster. The next, you're not. So, what do MPs do when they leave

:33:40.:33:45.

the Commons and become common? If they are very lucky, they get to do

:33:45.:33:49.

the thing they really love. Keen fisherman Martin Salter stood down

:33:49.:33:54.

as an MP for Reading West in 2010 and became co-ordinator of the

:33:54.:33:58.

Angling Trust. How does this compare to Westminster? You must

:33:58.:34:02.

miss it? I miss the people, I had some really good friends there and

:34:02.:34:07.

still do. I don't work 90 hours a week, I'm not public property and I

:34:07.:34:10.

know the work he on causes I care about four people I like. It's a

:34:10.:34:13.

great privilege to be able to speak up for a sport that has given me a

:34:13.:34:17.

huge amount of pleasure. I thoroughly enjoy what I'm doing.

:34:17.:34:21.

Martin is not alone in carving out a rather enjoyable niche for

:34:21.:34:25.

himself after leaving the Commons. There is Anne Widdecombe, start of

:34:25.:34:30.

Strictly. Former form secretary John Reid became make football club

:34:30.:34:36.

chairman. The Lembit Opik continued to perform as a stand-up comedian.

:34:36.:34:40.

Only kidding! A lot of former MPs going to lobbying or return to

:34:40.:34:43.

previous MPs, but many find the transition from Member of

:34:43.:34:47.

Parliament to the member of the public traumatic. It was

:34:47.:34:51.

devastating, it really was. I was working long, long hours. I hope I

:34:51.:34:55.

was doing a good job. The number of people that voted for me again, I

:34:55.:34:59.

know I was. Sadly, there is a gap in your life way you wanted to do

:34:59.:35:04.

things for people but that had gone. The study of ex-MPs in 2007

:35:04.:35:08.

reported instances of nervous breakdowns, divorce and serious

:35:08.:35:13.

debt. In 2010, a record number of parliamentarians, 148, left the

:35:13.:35:19.

Commons. So, how easy is it to find another job? To be honest, unless

:35:19.:35:23.

you are going into a job as an ex Cabinet minister or something like

:35:23.:35:28.

that, if I went back into Project Management and Bass said, what did

:35:28.:35:33.

you do? If I said I was an MP, they would say, so what? What project

:35:33.:35:37.

did you last manage? There is not a big queue of people wanting to

:35:37.:35:42.

employ ex-MPs. Here are a few tips on how to bring your career to a

:35:42.:35:46.

happy end. Use the skills and abilities you have got, but

:35:46.:35:50.

remember you are an ex-MP. Don't try to pretend you are an MP in

:35:50.:35:55.

waiting. It's a different chapter of your life. Just deal with it.

:35:55.:35:59.

you are in the autumn of your political career, remember that

:35:59.:36:03.

there was life after Westminster. What you make of it is up to you.

:36:03.:36:07.

A special welcome to viewers in Scotland who have joined as well

:36:07.:36:10.

that was going on. There have been watching First Minister's questions

:36:10.:36:16.

from Holyrood. We are discussing what happens after a career in

:36:16.:36:21.

politics. What a masterpiece of planning that we had you on to

:36:21.:36:27.

discuss this subject. The high points of your career in terms of

:36:27.:36:30.

the positions are leader of the Greater London Council, MP for

:36:30.:36:35.

Brent East and then mayor of London for two terms. What was the

:36:35.:36:44.

toughest one to leave? Oh, I think when the GLC was abolished, I

:36:44.:36:48.

assumed that something like that would be back fairly soon. I was on

:36:48.:36:52.

my way to Parliament. I assumed at some point we would have a

:36:52.:36:57.

socialist government. Of course, we ended up with Tony Blair! This time

:36:57.:37:03.

round, when I lost to Boris four years ago, I immediately threw

:37:03.:37:06.

myself into... I mean, there were so many cities around the world

:37:06.:37:10.

that wanted me to visit, which I could not do while I was mayor. I

:37:10.:37:13.

spent too much careers running against Boris Johnson. It's only

:37:13.:37:17.

really after the defeat this time that it was like real retirement.

:37:17.:37:20.

The phone stopped ringing, there were not endless meetings. Does

:37:20.:37:26.

that really happen? Literally, I was being managed 24-seven, running

:37:26.:37:31.

around all over the place. I was losing so much weight, pounding the

:37:31.:37:37.

streets. Very good for your health. And suddenly it came to a stop. I

:37:37.:37:40.

have a friend that is not very well, hadn't gone into his garden for

:37:40.:37:46.

years. I spend all of this summer gardening, cutting down trees,

:37:46.:37:52.

weeding... He found that therapeutic? I love it. Every day I

:37:52.:37:59.

could see two Square feet of soil I had reclaimed. Unlike politics, I

:37:59.:38:05.

spent the early part of 2000, 10 years ago, and lobbying to get

:38:05.:38:12.

Crossrail open in 2018. Gardening, you see an immediate result.

:38:12.:38:15.

general, politicians, particularly those that have had a long career

:38:15.:38:20.

and have done things, I don't mean an MP that has been there for a

:38:20.:38:23.

couple of years and then are gone again, politicians that have real

:38:23.:38:29.

careers men, is it difficult in general for them to adapt once it

:38:29.:38:34.

is over? It might be for a new generation coming up. I'm part of

:38:34.:38:39.

the post-war generation. In act videos they were saying, get off

:38:39.:38:42.

your backside and do something else. My partner is a generation younger

:38:42.:38:47.

than me. My partner says, where is your emotion? Sitting around

:38:47.:38:51.

whining about it isn't going to make any difference. Other than the

:38:51.:38:56.

gardening, that you enjoyed, that is clear... I've got my own garden

:38:56.:39:01.

to do, I'm doing about three gardens. It will come to an end. I

:39:01.:39:06.

am also on the Labour NEC, I do a lot of fund-raising dinners for the

:39:06.:39:10.

Labour Party. I go around in by- elections and all of that. I'm not

:39:10.:39:13.

really retired, and does not holding an office. What do you do

:39:13.:39:23.

to pay the rent? I have got my MP's salary and my mayors' pension. They

:39:23.:39:29.

pay �20,000 a year. Then there is radio and TV work, after-dinner

:39:29.:39:33.

speeches. �50,000 a year, I am really tough to the off. People are

:39:33.:39:37.

struggling a lot more than made. spoke to one Labour MP that is

:39:37.:39:40.

standing down and had been a government minister, a well-

:39:40.:39:43.

regarded career. He said that he was going to get away from

:39:43.:39:48.

Westminster altogether. He was actually thinking of starting a

:39:48.:39:51.

business. That was something he had never done before. He had run

:39:51.:39:58.

departments, but starting a business he thought would be a

:39:58.:40:02.

fresh career. Once the gardens are all done, I might build you a

:40:02.:40:07.

wildlife garden firm? I would quite enjoy that. The only problem is

:40:07.:40:11.

that I cannot drive, I would have to be taking everything around on

:40:11.:40:17.

the Tube. I need you to get enough to hire a sofa.

:40:17.:40:22.

Get your beer goggles on. We are going to talk about ale. It's a bit

:40:22.:40:27.

early to start, well, not at the Daily Politics. But it's not too

:40:27.:40:31.

early for MPs to debate the price of beer. They want to put a halt to

:40:31.:40:37.

something called the beer duty escalator. Thanks. It increases the

:40:37.:40:43.

tax on this stuff every year. The beer and pub Federation have worked

:40:43.:40:48.

out that the average Briton spends... I cannot see where it is.

:40:48.:40:58.
:40:58.:40:59.

Look at that, �177 the year on beer tax. Compare that to Denmark. This

:40:59.:41:07.

one? I can tell by the name. �64. Spanish... Can you get Spanish

:41:07.:41:13.

beer? I didn't know that. �15 the year. That's quite a big difference.

:41:13.:41:20.

15 for the Spanish, 67 and 177 for us. The price of beer is something

:41:20.:41:25.

that MPs have noticed as well, and online petitioner has attracted

:41:25.:41:31.

100,000 signatures. Andrew Griffiths has represented

:41:31.:41:36.

petitioners in the House of Commons this morning. Here he is, in that

:41:36.:41:42.

Daily Politics pub. Is it a good thing that the Government has tried

:41:42.:41:46.

to discourage people from drinking? We all want responsible drinking,

:41:46.:41:48.

that is absolutely right. The taxation system we have at the

:41:48.:41:52.

moment is encouraging people to drink spirits, to drink wine and,

:41:52.:41:58.

actually, beer, a great British product, is suffering as a result.

:41:58.:42:02.

Since the beer duty escalator was introduced, we have seen beer sales

:42:02.:42:09.

drop by 16%. We have seen five Crest Close for why his beer are

:42:09.:42:16.

suffering more? As I understand, or of alcohol is subject to this

:42:16.:42:21.

escalator? Under a Scottish Chancellor, we had 10 years of a

:42:21.:42:30.

freeze on Scottish whisky. Because beer is drunk in pubs more so, this

:42:30.:42:36.

is impacting on community pubs to a large extent. It is forcing growers

:42:36.:42:44.

to struggle. It is forcing pubs to close. -- growers. Do you have any

:42:44.:42:49.

evidence... We know pubs are closing, but what is the evidence

:42:49.:42:54.

that this duty escalator, pushing it up more than the price of

:42:54.:43:04.
:43:04.:43:06.

inflation, is contributing? Most pubs, they get 50% of their profits

:43:06.:43:10.

from beer. Not only is it damaging pubs and brewers, it is not raising

:43:10.:43:16.

any money. The Treasury forecast shows that in the next four years

:43:16.:43:19.

it will raise no money because sales are dropping as a result. We

:43:19.:43:22.

are shooting ourselves in the foot. If they scrap the beer duty

:43:22.:43:31.

escalator, we would see real growth in the sector. It seems you have a

:43:31.:43:34.

mountain to climb at a time when the Chancellor is desperate for

:43:34.:43:38.

money. He's got to cut public spending, he has been putting up

:43:38.:43:44.

taxes as well. Getting a cut in the beer tax, it seems that it's not

:43:44.:43:53.

going to be that easy? Look at duty on cider. Should you going to lay

:43:53.:43:57.

pub and have a pint of bitter or a pint of cider, there is 50 pence

:43:57.:44:02.

difference in the duty that you pay on a pint of beer. So, every time

:44:02.:44:07.

somebody chooses cider instead of beer, the Treasury is losing 50p.

:44:07.:44:12.

Also, the cider makers have 50 pence tax breaks to spend on

:44:12.:44:16.

promoting their products and marketing and advertising. When you

:44:16.:44:21.

put your points to the Prime their stand the Chancellor about this,

:44:21.:44:27.

what did they say to you as they sip their champagne? I think we all

:44:27.:44:31.

know. David Cameron loves a pint of bitter. He has been photographed on

:44:31.:44:36.

many occasions drinking fine Burton Ale. That doesn't mean he likes it,

:44:36.:44:42.

it means he knows that the cameras are there! He is an beer mother. We

:44:42.:44:46.

have reached a turning point. The thing about a beer escalator is

:44:46.:44:51.

that when you get to the top you stop and get off. We have reached

:44:51.:44:54.

the point where the escalator is not raising any money for the

:44:54.:44:58.

Treasury. It's actually costing jobs and costing sales. Stick with

:44:58.:45:04.

us. Don't go away. Ken Livingstone's reaction. Everybody

:45:04.:45:07.

that wants to cut a tax on something always tells me, whatever

:45:07.:45:17.
:45:17.:45:21.

it is, it's not raising money $:/STARTFEED. And one pub in London

:45:21.:45:26.

in every 10 closes every year. Most people put their life savings into

:45:26.:45:32.

renting a chub -- pub from a giant corporation and then they are

:45:32.:45:37.

forced to buy their alcohol from them about two or three times the

:45:37.:45:44.

price they can get from the supermarket. P but are drinking at

:45:44.:45:50.

home because it is cheaper. Thatcher, give her her due, she got

:45:50.:45:54.

rid of the tied cottage, but it has crept back and it forces the public

:45:54.:46:02.

to buy from giant corporations. British beer a pub Federation works

:46:03.:46:06.

hand-in-hand with the giant corporations? Yes, that is right

:46:06.:46:13.

and the industry has had some problems and some self regulation

:46:13.:46:19.

has been brought in. One of the big problems is the supermarkets. They

:46:19.:46:23.

use alcohol as a loss-leader and have driven the prices down and as

:46:23.:46:27.

a result we see more people drinking at home unsupervised.

:46:27.:46:34.

ary briefly because we have run out of time, on a scale of 1 to 10, 10

:46:34.:46:37.

being good for you, what is the chance of you getting this at the

:46:37.:46:47.

next Budget? I am optimistic. I would say nine, Andrew, I'm a

:46:47.:46:53.

born optimist. That is certainly optimistic. Have one on me. I have

:46:53.:46:58.

eight tab behind the bar. When the contract to run the West Coast main

:46:58.:47:04.

line was handed to FirstGroup, there were cries of foul play from

:47:04.:47:08.

Virgin Trains. Richard Branson claimed the Department for

:47:08.:47:13.

Transport had got their calculations wrong. The protest was

:47:13.:47:17.

dismissed as sour grapes. Then last month the Transport Minister had to

:47:17.:47:24.

admit there were serious flaws in the franchise process. Yesterday he

:47:24.:47:32.

faced MPs on the transport committee. The mistakes which were

:47:33.:47:37.

made on the InterCity West Coast franchise should not have been made

:47:38.:47:43.

and they were serious for the Department. We have apologised to

:47:43.:47:46.

the bidders involved and the taxpayers who have a right to

:47:46.:47:56.
:47:56.:47:56.

expect better. Would the interim report, which can only be described

:47:56.:48:01.

as a damning indictment of the Department, and the report found

:48:01.:48:07.

the department knew the process was flawed and lacked transparency,

:48:07.:48:11.

that it changed the rules at the last minute without telling the

:48:11.:48:16.

bidders and acted unfairly and was aware it was open to legal

:48:16.:48:24.

challenge. In view of all of that, do you wish you could have asked

:48:24.:48:28.

more questions in the department before you came to the conclusion

:48:28.:48:33.

that you're content with the way things had been done? Guided ask

:48:33.:48:39.

questions and I was assured when I came here in the little time I had,

:48:39.:48:44.

it was shortly after my appointment, within a week that I was here, but

:48:44.:48:50.

I was not in the Department for the whole week, but I was a steward the

:48:50.:48:56.

award of the franchise was safe, it was technically said. Do I regret

:48:56.:49:03.

not asking more questions? I think I would have been sure that

:49:03.:49:07.

although there were some small issues that had come to light, I

:49:07.:49:11.

was assured that would have had no change on the overall awarding of

:49:11.:49:20.

the franchise. That was the new Transport Secretary before the

:49:20.:49:25.

Transport Select Committee in the Commons. Is it time to

:49:25.:49:29.

renationalise the trains? Ken Livingstone has long argued they

:49:29.:49:33.

should be taken back under state control. We are joined by Richard

:49:33.:49:37.

Wellings, from the Institute of Economic Affairs, he thinks they

:49:37.:49:41.

should stay in private hands. Summarise the case for state

:49:41.:49:48.

ownership. You go back to Adam Smith. If you have a monopoly,

:49:49.:49:55.

people will still permute. The only time was when British Airways was

:49:55.:50:00.

privatise, they were not ripped off because they had competition will

:50:00.:50:04.

start we have got the highest energy prices in Europe. If you

:50:04.:50:10.

give somebody a monopoly or a cartel, they will rip us off.

:50:10.:50:16.

disagree. There have been several successes on the railway. A big

:50:16.:50:20.

increase in passenger numbers and freight, investment in the

:50:20.:50:27.

infrastructure, but the process is we did not have proper

:50:27.:50:31.

privatisation. Civil servants decide to run the trains. Somebody

:50:31.:50:38.

has to decide to the franchise goes too. That is not a genuine

:50:38.:50:46.

privatise stretch. If you look at vertical integration, the same

:50:46.:50:49.

company owned the trains and the track and that would have been more

:50:49.:50:55.

wet sufficient. We can see the difference. In London the Mayor

:50:56.:51:00.

controls the bus companies and regulates them and they have to run

:51:00.:51:05.

as the Mayor directs. Outside London it is a free for all.

:51:05.:51:13.

Anybody going on a bus in London, and anyone getting on outside

:51:13.:51:17.

London, they will all say in London they are brilliant and outside it

:51:17.:51:24.

is ghastly. It is a regulated market? The Mayor tells them how

:51:24.:51:28.

often they will run the service. Basically it could be run by the

:51:28.:51:34.

Meyer. One of the arguments was British Rail was taking up too much

:51:34.:51:39.

in subsidy. When I look at the figures, now we have privatise it

:51:39.:51:44.

is a lot more. Over �5 billion worth of subsidies going into the

:51:45.:51:51.

railways. It is a massive problem, it has tripled since privatisation.

:51:51.:51:56.

That is a lot of money. It is disgraceful. In it is not

:51:56.:52:00.

privatisation. The railway companies are sub-contractors for

:52:00.:52:06.

the state. We should try it proper privatisation. What does that mean?

:52:06.:52:11.

We get away from all the layers of bureaucracy, as we see with the

:52:11.:52:16.

Civil Service taking a role and it would bring costs down. Who would

:52:16.:52:21.

decide to run a train from London to Manchester. The company would

:52:21.:52:26.

buy both the tracks and run the trains and it would be after them.

:52:26.:52:30.

There is no railway in the world that makes a profit, everyone has

:52:30.:52:36.

to be subsidised. That is not the case. In the 19th century the

:52:36.:52:42.

railways were built by the private sector. It is a changed world.

:52:42.:52:48.

there is more competition so the monopoly threat is reduced.

:52:48.:52:52.

watched this when I was Mayor. I brought in a lot of Americans who

:52:52.:52:57.

ran big things and they negotiated quite prettily with the contractors.

:52:57.:53:02.

Part of the problem is it is now the Civil Service. Something like

:53:02.:53:07.

the Richard Branson fiasco comes up, they might negotiate a contract

:53:07.:53:12.

every few years. But you need people who do this every year.

:53:12.:53:16.

Civil servants do not have those skills to negotiate with giant

:53:16.:53:23.

corporations. On his side up the argument, passenger numbers are up.

:53:23.:53:27.

I do not know if the camera can get this. This graph is quite

:53:27.:53:36.

remarkable. Suddenly after privatisation it goes up. Under

:53:36.:53:39.

British Rail the number of passengers had been in gentle

:53:39.:53:47.

decline. Passenger numbers are up, apparently from the surveys

:53:47.:53:50.

passenger satisfaction is high, and we have one of the safest railways

:53:50.:53:56.

in Europe. Public transport is taking off again because travelling

:53:56.:54:00.

on the motorway is a nightmare, people are more mobile than they

:54:00.:54:07.

used to be a. In London we have had the same thing, a 50% increase in

:54:07.:54:11.

bus and Tube usage. People are turning to public transport. You

:54:11.:54:16.

would have to be out of your mind to drive a car. I will give you the

:54:16.:54:21.

final word. We need to build on this and think about the

:54:21.:54:25.

fundamental stretch of the rail industry and can we get a subsidy

:54:25.:54:30.

is down to a reasonable level? you very much for becoming part of

:54:30.:54:35.

our debate will stop facial hair, there is not enough of it about

:54:35.:54:41.

these days, as Ken will agree. Turn the clock back 30 years and any man

:54:41.:54:48.

worth his salt would be sprouting some fine plumage on his upper lip.

:54:48.:54:54.

But now we have got something called Movember. Once a year for a

:54:54.:54:58.

one-month men across the world it to express themselves and strut

:54:58.:55:03.

their stuff by growing a fine pair of handlebars. It is for a good

:55:03.:55:08.

cause and we will be speaking to a number of MPs who are up to the

:55:08.:55:13.

challenge. First, here are some time -- parliamentarians who used

:55:13.:55:19.

to be brave enough to sport a fine moustache, and also some

:55:19.:55:29.
:55:29.:55:48.

suggestions for others who can be # 100 hairs make a man! #. It looks

:55:49.:55:54.

like something from the Wild West. All the coalition members had

:55:54.:56:01.

droopy ones! I am joined by the two MPs who are going to have a go. Why

:56:01.:56:08.

are you going to do this? I am going to try and grow a moustache.

:56:08.:56:14.

In the Somerset when I was on holiday I did not shave for a week

:56:14.:56:19.

and I did not see the defence. But it is a very good cause raising

:56:19.:56:24.

awareness about prostate cancer and I am willing to make an idiot of

:56:24.:56:29.

myself. You have only got one month. It is the month of November you get

:56:29.:56:36.

to do this. That is right and I feel like my attempt is a bit like

:56:36.:56:43.

their UK economy, a lack of growth. But 10,000 men a year die of

:56:43.:56:48.

prostate cancer. If we can make a difference, both in fund raising

:56:48.:56:52.

and awareness, that will be a good thing, because it is a tableau

:56:52.:56:57.

subject. A lot of men do not like to talk about it or go and get

:56:57.:57:03.

check-ups and so on. Are you raising money? Our people

:57:03.:57:08.

sponsoring you? Yes, I will be setting up a website page and I

:57:09.:57:14.

hope people will sponsor me. Also Royal Mail have pledged for every

:57:14.:57:18.

pound we raised, they will match that will stop her abuse started

:57:18.:57:28.
:57:28.:57:28.

yet because I cannot see anything? Yes, I had started. You famously

:57:28.:57:34.

had one once, but I am told you would never bring it back. My wife

:57:34.:57:39.

said she would have never taken up with me if I still had a moustache.

:57:39.:57:43.

But it was the end of the Sixties and I thought I would have more

:57:44.:57:48.

success with bells if I had a moustache. And did you? I do not

:57:48.:57:54.

think so. I tried a beard, but my beard looked like a battered toilet

:57:54.:58:00.

brush. They do not take off. These things come and go with fashion,

:58:00.:58:05.

there were a lot of MPs with moustaches when I came in. Will you

:58:05.:58:13.

keep it? I would doubt so, but I know some people who are cutting

:58:13.:58:19.

their privet hedges into moustaches. One to about you? It in a month I

:58:19.:58:24.

have managed to grow a fantastic moustache, which I doubt, I will

:58:24.:58:29.

reconsider it. You have both managed expectations well, we are

:58:29.:58:34.

not expecting much. Comeback in a month's time and tell us how it is

:58:34.:58:37.

going. A special thanks to Ken

:58:37.:58:43.

Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS