10/01/2013 Daily Politics


10/01/2013

Andrew Neil and Jo Coburn with the latest political news and debate, including US concern over a possible referendum on Britain's EU membership and the Tube's 150th anniversary.


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LineFromTo

Good afternoon, folks. Welcome to the Daily Politics. Good news for

:00:40.:00:44.

the Liberal Democrats - they're not the only ones concerned about a

:00:44.:00:48.

possible British exit if the EU. Last night the Obama administration

:00:48.:00:51.

weighed into the debate, declaring that the special relationship is

:00:51.:00:55.

best served by the UK remaining at the heart of Europe - spare a

:00:55.:00:58.

thought for Dave. He's going to make a big speech about Europe soon,

:00:58.:01:02.

probably saying something a little different. Oh, well. You can't

:01:02.:01:05.

please everyone. I'm just wondering, are you a man

:01:05.:01:10.

of the people, and have you ever worn a onesie? Yes, Nick Clegg

:01:10.:01:17.

answers the big political questions in his first weekly radio phone-in.

:01:17.:01:21.

Aberdeen City Council wants to remove beggars from the streets.

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Not surprisingly, it's cooked up a bit of a political storm. The thing

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that always strikes me about England football - you probably

:01:27.:01:31.

think this is maybe wrong - always trying to thread the ball through

:01:31.:01:35.

the middle of the pitch rather than take it down the wings. Don't you

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just hate it when strange men talk to you on the tube? We celebrate

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150 years of minding the gap! What do they know about football?

:01:48.:01:53.

Quite a lot by the looks of it. read it on a script. All that for

:01:54.:01:58.

the next hour. With us is a venture capitalist, Jon Moulton. Welcome to

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the Daily Politics. Thank you. First, this morning, let's talk

:02:01.:02:05.

about the retail price index - the RPI because many people - I won't

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name name, just most of the BBC, including myself, thought that the

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Office for National Statistics would recommend changing it this

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morning. It had been expected that the ar, a which is used to set the

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level of pensions, would be brought closer into line with the

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Government's preferred measure of inflation - that's called the

:02:22.:02:32.
:02:32.:02:35.

Consumer Price Index. Are you still following me? It's basically a

:02:35.:02:39.

European measure of inflation Mr Brown introduced. Anyway, nothing

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happened. We were all completely wrong. All that homework wasted.

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Jon Moulton, you have 30 seconds to explain what all this means. Your

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time starts now. Retail price index was being computed using a strange

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mathematical model called the Cali Index everybody else thinks is

:02:57.:03:06.

The Government were trying to cut the rate to cut the price of

:03:06.:03:11.

running the index-linked gilts and save about �3 billion a year.

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Unfortunately, the Office for National Statistics has said they

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don't want to do it. Nobody understands quite why. RPI is high

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largely because of the housing content. Brilliant! Have you been

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practising?! Do it again. Sheer the contract. You have got it. We are

:03:34.:03:39.

all on holiday now. Now a different type of quiz. David Cameron this

:03:39.:03:46.

week hosted a Downing Street reception for fashionistas. Where

:03:46.:03:50.

was our invite? You don't even know what it means. The Prime Minister

:03:50.:03:53.

impressed the crowd with a revelation that he always wears

:03:53.:03:56.

underpants from Marks & Spencer. Too much information. But where

:03:56.:04:06.
:04:06.:04:20.

Later this month David Cameron is going to be the Netherlands. Why

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not? To make a speech on Europe. Netherlands being in Europe. To say

:04:25.:04:28.

it's long-awaited is an understatement. It's been delayed

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at least twice and has been the subject of endless speculation here

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in Westminster. He told the Commons lobby recently that it would be

:04:38.:04:41.

like tantric sex, it would be all the better when it happens. Can I

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say that on daytime television? I just did. He is expected to talk

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about how he wabs to renegotiate the relationship between Britain

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and the EU there.'s no shortage of advice being offered as Joe

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:05:06.:05:08.

Some of his own backbenchers are demanding he loosens Britain's

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relationship with the EU. Some would prefer we leave altogether.

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On the other hand, many business leaders are worried about the

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potential consequences for the British economy. Richard Branson is

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one of a group of businessmen who have taken to the letters page of

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the Financial Times to warn against doing anything that could reduce

:05:25.:05:28.

British influence in Europe. They say that Britain must be very

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careful not to call for a wholesale renegotiation. Such a demand would

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be rejected by other member states and could put our relationship with

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the membership of the EU at risk. They're not the only people to have

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expressed concern. Yesterday, a senior member of Barack Obama's

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team explained that Washington believes the special relationship

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between Britained a America is best served by Britain remaining at the

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heart of Europe. He said it was essential and critical Britain

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shouldn't weaken its role in Brussels. In his speech later this

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month the Prime Minister will be looking for a way to satisfy people

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on both sides of the debate. It's not going to be an easy task.

:06:09.:06:18.
:06:19.:06:19.

Now with us is the Conservative MP Nadim Zahowi and old Daily Politics,

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Christopher Mere. Welcome to you both. Can we establish there is

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nothing new - the timing may be significant. There is nothing new

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in what the United States is saying. It has always been the policy of

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the State Department to want Britain to be a part of the

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European Union and indeed even be at the heart of the European Union?

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That, in my experience is absolutely right. As long as I have

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had anything to do with the United States of America, they have always

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said this about Britain and about the European Union. It is, as you

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say, the timing which has turned out to be a bit explosive and

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assistant secretary Phil Gordon probably didn't expect when he lit

:06:57.:07:01.

the blue touch paper there would be an explosion of interest in what

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the Americans are saying. You may be surprised with the reaction, but

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he didn't say it off the cuff. He - the State Department knew what he

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was saying. This was absolutely to be expected. It was only a question

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of who would say it, where they'd say it and when they'd say it. I

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suspect this message is being delivered to the British Government

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in private over a period of months. What is concentrating American

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minds? It is the possibility, the reality, if you like, of an in-out

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referendum that could take us out of the EU altogether. Sitting in

:07:35.:07:41.

Washington, this is not in the American national interests. Do you

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begin to sense a growing force against Euro-scepticism beginning

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to flare up? We have had the businessmen, Richard Branson, and

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others saying, "Let's stop talking about leaving the European Union."

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We have had this statement from the State Department. Are the forces

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now beginning to get a against Europe from your point of view?

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it's healthy scepticism. Look at what they do for a Parliament. You

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have two Parliaments in two different cities costing hundreds

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of millions of pounds. What is happening is not just America but

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Germany - I had the head of the German CPI over here who made it

:08:23.:08:27.

very clear that Germany both politically and the business

:08:27.:08:37.
:08:37.:08:38.

community want us to remain a major player. I think what the Prime

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Minister a has to do is make sure every settlement that comes in from

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the eurozone, every expert can agree on one thing - there is going

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to be a new settlement... Within the eurozone. When we know what

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that is, we need to renegotiate our position with that, make sure there

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are some things, whether it's repatriation of things like the

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Working Time Directives, stuff around the criminal justice and

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policing, all of those sorts of things we can negotiate, then we

:09:09.:09:16.

must put it to the country, because we need the backing and the good

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will of the British public. I think we'll win the referendum. That

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would depend on what you're going to repatriate. What is the absolute

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minimum that needs to be repatriated in your view, not the

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Government's view? We'll hear that from the Prime Minister. In your

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view, what is the minimum that needs to be repatriated for you to

:09:38.:09:44.

say we need to stay in I would like us to repatriate things around the

:09:44.:09:48.

Working Time Directives - the spending at the moment in the

:09:48.:09:58.
:09:58.:09:58.

regions is done in a costly way, a CAP needs to be renegotiated.

:09:58.:10:02.

That's not going to happen. Do you want out of it? Let's see what

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settlement there is. I have asked you... Let's see what settlement

:10:07.:10:10.

there is and we will negotiate. are not going to be doing the

:10:10.:10:14.

negotiating. You are just speaking as an MP. I am speaking as a

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backbencher supporting my Government. But what is the minimum

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for - if you can't get all of that, do you say vote no? What I would

:10:23.:10:31.

like to see is - L oh n Brittain said if we can go back to the opt

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out. Labour gave up an opt opt out. If we can get that back, that's a

:10:37.:10:42.

good place to be, so develop that. You look at exsport and not just

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the big business. But small exporters in Stratford want us to

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be in the single market, to be taking advantage of it. But on

:10:50.:10:54.

different terms. Is it credible that the Europeans will allow us to

:10:54.:10:58.

stay in the single market with all the advantages that brings and

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almost none of the responsibilities? I think it

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probably is. The thing we need above all is free trade, that's one

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thing that stands on its own. Doesn't require all the other stuff

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definitely to exist. It's easier if it does. At the moment we are

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attached to a club which has low growth, unattractive financial

:11:21.:11:27.

characteristics, very poor future, why would we want to continue?

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understand. What I don't understand is why would the French and Germans

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agree to put their industries at a disadvantage by agreeing to make it

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a lot easier for us? I think there's a bunch of things here that

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haven't been properly discussed. The debate which we have had the

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European Union has been amazingly parochial. Only now I suspect is

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the Government seriously trying to factor in the American attitude as

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an objective element in the argument which has to go into David

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Cameron's speech. And there's a kind of another thing here, whether

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you are a eurosceptic or europhile. To think we can say all we want is

:12:08.:12:11.

the single market, don't want this, the common fisheries policy and

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then we are going to have a healthy relationship. On the other side of

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the Channel people are saying, you are not going to get this without a

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tough fight, if at all. This is going to be the mother of all

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negotiations with no guarantee of success at the end on terms that

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might be acceptable to those who would call themselves eurosceptic

:12:31.:12:41.
:12:41.:12:43.

Are you prepared to say we should leave? I'm prepared to take it to

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the country and make the arguments because I think... What would you

:12:48.:12:52.

advise the country to do? My advice is we need to stay in the single

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market. We get that but with respect, again, that's not what I

:12:54.:13:00.

asked. I hear you, and it's all hypothetical. It may become a

:13:00.:13:07.

reality. We all want - LAUGHTER

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Go for it. Go on. Answer. I will make the arguments. When I see what

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that renegotiation has brought forward, I'll make the argument

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hopefully to stay in the single market. By the way, Christopher

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talks about Germany and France not wanting us to get what we want.

:13:24.:13:33.
:13:34.:13:39.

They need our support to do what we need to do. We're prepared to hold

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the eurozone to ransom to stop them becoming an ever closer union if we

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don't get what we want. Is that what you're saying? It's a

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negotiation. Your point of highest leverage is when you need the other

:13:52.:13:58.

people to get something for you... So no fiscal union for the

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eurozone? No economic union for the eurozone? They don't do... If it

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damages the single market - David Cameron was already prepared to do

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it. It is unwise to negotiate with guns that are loaded. You can't

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fire that weapon. We would be such an enemy of Europe of Europe for so

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long, we'd go nowhere. We have to renegotiate a better position. Free

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trade is the basics. We want as little as the rest as is necessary

:14:28.:14:33.

to stay in. It's not easy to say where that'll drop. You wouldn't be

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frightened if we left? I wouldn't. That makes you a minority among

:14:38.:14:41.

business folk. It does indeed. At least I am in the UK, whereas

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Richard Branson is somewhere in the Caribbean. He has somewhat

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different views. Oh! A saucer of milk for our guest of the day.

:14:50.:14:55.

There is a danger here - stepping back from the Euro-sceptic, Euro

:14:55.:15:01.

Phil argument - there is a danger here taking the American position

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and taking what I think would be the likely arrangement of the

:15:05.:15:09.

countries that would matter in that we end up with no friends? It is

:15:10.:15:14.

possible. I don't think that'll happen... Because America doesn't

:15:14.:15:18.

want us to leave as ambassador. America doesn't want to go down the

:15:18.:15:23.

route he's talking about either. think the big worry in all of this

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- it's a completely unknown factor at the moment - is we have more

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foreign direct investment from the United States in this country than

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from any other country - more or less a million people go to work

:15:36.:15:40.

every day from American firms investing in the UK. Indeed. When

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we did not go into the euro, American business didn't care, but

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if we were to leave the European Union as a whole as a result of a

:15:49.:15:52.

referendum, I wouldn't like to bet that all of that investment would

:15:52.:15:57.

stay in the UK with the jobs... thing they want is the free trade.

:15:57.:16:01.

That's what those Americans really want. The other things are very

:16:01.:16:04.

secondary. The Americans really don't want to have to pay for the

:16:04.:16:09.

Working Time Directive, for the social stuff for, the unnecessary

:16:09.:16:14.

regulation and the nonsense. would remind you when it came to

:16:14.:16:16.

the European budget, who was the cool significance it was the UK,

:16:17.:16:21.

Germany, France, the Netherlands and Finland going back to vam rum

:16:21.:16:24.

boy and saying you can't have the increase in the budget you would

:16:24.:16:34.

To coin a phrase, in that you were all in it together. You all wanted

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the same thing. That isn't going to be true when you are going to tell

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German business your costs will be hugely high and we will cut our

:16:42.:16:46.

costs because there will be no no European directives. Let's see what

:16:46.:16:50.

happens then. We have to leave it there, but I think we will be back.

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If this speech ever happens! When is it going... It is going to

:16:56.:17:04.

happen. I will be patient. It's the first time a serving cabinet

:17:04.:17:09.

Minister has agreed to a weekly onair grilling. Nick Clegg has his

:17:09.:17:13.

own half hour radio slot now in which members of the public can

:17:13.:17:18.

call, e-mail text or tweet questions to the Deputy Prime

:17:19.:17:24.

Minister. His first slot on London's LBC radio station was

:17:24.:17:33.

broadcast today. Let's move on to other callers. It's John in London,

:17:33.:17:37.

you are on the radio. Good morning. Nick Clegg, I am a Liberal Democrat

:17:37.:17:44.

who's just torn up his membership card. I joined the party first in

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1973. I am afraid I cannot now say that I want to represent the Lib

:17:48.:17:56.

Dems. I am an ex-County Councilor and I am ashamed of what the

:17:56.:18:01.

party's doing. Have you got your membership card with you? Not now

:18:01.:18:05.

Jew remember what it -- not now. You remember what it says on it?

:18:05.:18:10.

The Liberal Democrats exist to build a fair and free open society

:18:10.:18:14.

in which we seek to balance fundamental values of liberty

:18:14.:18:17.

equality and community and no one shall be enslaved by poverty,

:18:17.:18:21.

ignorance or conformity. Can you tell me how you reconcile that with

:18:21.:18:26.

what this Government's attacks on the poorest in society? You say you

:18:26.:18:30.

are ashamed. I am immensely proud that facing one of the biggest

:18:30.:18:34.

economic crises this country has seen in a generation, possibly the

:18:34.:18:39.

post-war period, the Liberal Democrats took a big collective and

:18:39.:18:42.

brave decision, at some political cost, to say we are going to step

:18:42.:18:44.

up to the plate, work in a coalition because no one won the

:18:44.:18:48.

general election and try and fix this mess and fix this mess while

:18:48.:18:53.

also trying to make society fairer. How have we done that? You sold

:18:53.:19:00.

out... Wait a minute. With a promise on the front page of our

:19:00.:19:04.

manifesto to raise the point at which people start paying income

:19:04.:19:10.

tax to �10,000, that's the biggest change in the system. The pupil

:19:10.:19:14.

premium, on the front page of our manifesto, we are delivering �2.5

:19:14.:19:17.

billion of extra money targeted directly for the first time at

:19:17.:19:21.

those children on free school meals, from the most disadvantaged

:19:21.:19:25.

families who need more support in school. For the first time ever as

:19:25.:19:28.

of this April, because of something I personally pushed through

:19:28.:19:31.

Government, thousands of two-year- olds for the first time ever will

:19:31.:19:35.

get 15 hours of free pre-school support and child care in a way

:19:35.:19:38.

that's never happened in this country before. Those are just

:19:39.:19:43.

three examples. If do you go ahead and leave the party which party

:19:43.:19:47.

would you support? I am afraid I can't support any party at the

:19:47.:19:53.

moment. They're doing exactly the same thing. Thank you. Deputy Prime

:19:53.:19:58.

Minister, a question from Harry in Sheffield. I am wondering are you a

:19:58.:20:06.

man of the people and have you ever worn a onesie? I was actually given

:20:06.:20:12.

a big green onesie in Sheffield which I have kept in its packaging.

:20:12.:20:17.

I haven't worn it yet but I have one, I possess one. I am not sure

:20:17.:20:25.

he should be boasting about owning that. More of that later. He knew

:20:25.:20:33.

what it was, more than I did! Joining us now are Nick Ferrari and

:20:33.:20:37.

Gillian Reynolds. How do you think he did? I think he did really well.

:20:37.:20:42.

You saw live radio in all its ugliness with the calls you heard,

:20:42.:20:46.

the councillor who decided to tear up his card. We have done a couple

:20:47.:20:52.

of one-offs before, and I am sure he has done phone-ins. The joy of

:20:52.:20:56.

the radio is you don't know what's coming your way. None of the calls

:20:56.:21:00.

are vetted, he didn't know what was coming up? Credit to him and his

:21:01.:21:04.

team. They didn't even ask. They knew that's how it was. They

:21:04.:21:08.

probably know what to expect. Had he got what he would have expected,

:21:08.:21:11.

a question on child benefit, something on welfare and a member

:21:11.:21:16.

ripping up the pledge card from the party and tuition fees. The big

:21:16.:21:19.

question is are you going to be able to sustain it, is he going to

:21:19.:21:23.

be able to sustain it every week? This man projected confidence and

:21:23.:21:28.

enjoyed it at the end, he wasn't beaten. He said how much he was

:21:28.:21:32.

genuinely enjoying it. He said I look forward to seeing you next

:21:32.:21:37.

Thursday and meant it. He is up for it. What is I imagine if you look

:21:37.:21:43.

at it, he is not doing particularly well, what has he got to lose?

:21:43.:21:49.

did you think? How would you review it? Very swift show. Went in the

:21:49.:21:59.

blink of an eye. I listened to the first 15 minutes. I listened to it,

:21:59.:22:03.

I I don't know how you did it, the control of the timing was masterly.

:22:04.:22:07.

Two questions before the first break, four questions afterwards.

:22:07.:22:11.

If you compress the time down, you are talking about 25 minutes.

:22:11.:22:21.
:22:21.:22:25.

Nobody was hurried. He did well. There you go! A great review. Will

:22:25.:22:30.

you listen next week and week after week? Yes, I will. If you are

:22:30.:22:38.

talking about what is if for Nick Clegg? What's in it for LBC? It's

:22:38.:22:42.

got a national audience. Via digital radio and online, it's a

:22:42.:22:47.

national audience. It's suddenly demonstrated, it's also a younger

:22:47.:22:52.

audience than the usual one. choose a London station, he will

:22:52.:22:57.

have done things in Sheffield. asked him. There is that. What

:22:57.:23:05.

about this idea of a masochism strategy? Boris Johnson comes on

:23:05.:23:08.

once a month and he has had terrible times. David Cameron last

:23:08.:23:11.

year, you may have covered this, he took a call from the woman who asks

:23:11.:23:15.

why are we spending billions on foreign aid, I am dying of cancer

:23:15.:23:24.

and can't get drugs. And the UKIP clip. That was on my show, when he

:23:24.:23:27.

was leader of the opposition, before he was Prime Minister. He

:23:27.:23:33.

knows. I guess it comes back, what's he got to lose? Maybe it is

:23:33.:23:37.

that streak. But at least perhaps David Cameron doesn't listen to him,

:23:37.:23:42.

perhaps he doesn't get a word in at home with Miriam. I will be quiet!

:23:42.:23:45.

He said something interesting, when you explain things to people they

:23:45.:23:50.

understand them. There was a lot of stick afterwards from the students

:23:50.:23:54.

in Sheffield, we wouldn't vote for him, we didn't like him. Too many

:23:54.:23:57.

statistics. Actually, you could feel in the first half hour that he

:23:58.:24:02.

did that once he started explaining things people did listen and as you

:24:02.:24:09.

say, might have made a nice change. Will you listen? No. I am

:24:09.:24:12.

interested that he could do it without the hand gestures,

:24:13.:24:18.

typically when he does speak all I do is watch his hands going. If he

:24:18.:24:25.

was in a onesie, it wouldn't be his hands you were looking at. I was

:24:25.:24:31.

impressed he did know what it was. Andrew and I did not. In the ad

:24:31.:24:38.

break, what was he like? He enjoyed it. He didn't go, how did I do?

:24:38.:24:43.

was absolutely buoyant. He really was was. He thoroughly enjoyed it.

:24:43.:24:48.

I am not just saying that, he was in the studio and his body language

:24:48.:24:52.

was upbeat. Do you think he was too technical? These are complex

:24:52.:24:57.

questions about child benefit and about welfare and benefit caps. Do

:24:57.:24:59.

you think there was a little bit too much in terms of statistics and

:24:59.:25:09.

figures? No one knows better about the Radio than Gillian. It's a

:25:09.:25:13.

personal medium. In a newspaper they do a box and TV you put up a

:25:13.:25:16.

graphic. I don't blame him, politicians do it. They hit you

:25:16.:25:21.

with figures. You lose the audience. It's about human stories. A couple

:25:21.:25:24.

of students you mentioned reflected too many numbers, people can't

:25:24.:25:28.

process them all. He is not presenting. There is a big

:25:28.:25:36.

difference between being a guest on a show, and actually, Tony Blair

:25:36.:25:41.

when he did a show he was driving - would you like to hear him present

:25:41.:25:46.

the programme rather than taking calls? Well, I think after a couple

:25:46.:25:51.

of weeks or months - I am happy for him to do half an hour and to

:25:51.:25:54.

address the questions of the minute. Because I don't think there's any

:25:54.:25:59.

harm in a politician appearing to be accessible and that's quite a

:25:59.:26:03.

clever thing he's done. He appears to be accessible to a national

:26:03.:26:06.

audience who can ask him anything S there any other politician who

:26:06.:26:11.

would take that risk? Is it desperation? Would you come under

:26:11.:26:15.

pressure from Ofcom to say if you are doing this with the Lib Dems,

:26:15.:26:20.

you have to let Labour politician on of their choice, a UKIP and a

:26:20.:26:23.

Conservative? The answer is not until you move into an election

:26:23.:26:26.

period. Representations have been made by one of the other parties,

:26:26.:26:32.

we would welcome David and Ed and they can have Friday and Monday and

:26:32.:26:35.

carve it up between them. At the moment we are confident there are

:26:35.:26:39.

no problems. The invitation is there. If they want to... You are

:26:39.:26:44.

not going to say no? No, name your hour and come in. We will tune in

:26:44.:26:54.
:26:54.:26:55.

next week. Thank you very much. The pay of Britain's top executives

:26:55.:27:01.

has been a thorny subject since chief executives were invented. But

:27:01.:27:05.

it's especially controversial in times of austerity. The wealth

:27:05.:27:08.

wealth gap between those at the top and those struggling has led to

:27:08.:27:12.

calls for a cap on executive pay. All three main parties agree that

:27:12.:27:21.

something must be done. But what? David Thompson reports.

:27:21.:27:25.

The spoils of capitalism, affordable to the few, not the many.

:27:25.:27:29.

These days the gap between those who shop here and the rest of us

:27:29.:27:33.

feels ever wider and ever more irritating. If there's one thing

:27:33.:27:37.

guaranteed to wind people up, it's the megapay packets of those at the

:27:37.:27:41.

top largely because it doesn't seem fair. While it might be tempting to

:27:41.:27:46.

cap executive salaries, in reality, pretty unlikely to happen. There is,

:27:46.:27:51.

however, more than one way to skin a fat cat. Many viewers will have

:27:51.:27:54.

pensions or savings wrapped up in different investment funds. We

:27:54.:27:58.

would like to empower them more to take action to be able to do

:27:58.:28:01.

something about this by forcing fund managers to disclose how they

:28:01.:28:07.

vote on issues of remunneration. If you have a pension you deserve to

:28:07.:28:12.

though if they're voting in favour of excessive irresponsible pay

:28:12.:28:14.

packets or whether they're actually doing the right thing. Unless you

:28:14.:28:18.

know you can't do anything about it. It's not just Labour. The

:28:19.:28:21.

Government wants shareholders to have a binding vote on executive

:28:21.:28:25.

pay every three years with details of salaries and golden handshakes

:28:25.:28:31.

made public. In Brussels, the the European Parliament's economic and

:28:31.:28:36.

monetary committee hopes to push through on weeks. Is it their job

:28:36.:28:40.

to tell private businesses what they should pay? If you are doing

:28:40.:28:43.

it for no particular reason, but we are doing it for a reason. There

:28:43.:28:48.

has been an excessive amount of risk-taking happening in the

:28:48.:28:51.

financial sector. These high bonuses have brought it about.

:28:51.:28:58.

There has been a consequence effect upon society. Therefore, that

:28:58.:29:07.

overrules having a complete Libber attitude of you can take what you

:29:07.:29:17.
:29:17.:29:19.

However, bonuses fell by 5% with increased share options largely

:29:19.:29:24.

making up the increase. Don't feel too sorry for them

:29:24.:29:31.

though, the medium bonus was still over �600,000 and average earns of

:29:31.:29:35.

chief executive a micely �4 billion. What would be wrong with an overall

:29:35.:29:40.

cap on pay? I think having a flat rate cap applying across the board

:29:40.:29:43.

in all different businesses in industry will be impractical and

:29:43.:29:47.

will represent far too much of an interference in the day-to-day

:29:47.:29:51.

management of a company. Actually very few politicians want to cap on

:29:51.:29:56.

total salaries which some fear pay campaigners think is chickening out.

:29:56.:30:01.

The idea executive pay should be a no-go area is risible and it's

:30:01.:30:05.

because in the main they're terrified of the threat that

:30:05.:30:10.

they'll be seen as anti-wealth generation as it's posed, if they

:30:10.:30:15.

challenge the highest executive pay packets in the world which is

:30:15.:30:20.

nonsense and there's been a good lobby in favour of high executive

:30:20.:30:24.

pay which they haven't dared to take on. It's easy to say red over

:30:24.:30:27.

the trappings of executive wealth. Coming up with realistic plans to

:30:27.:30:36.

scale down the perks of those at I didn't know you'd parked your car

:30:36.:30:42.

there. I think it's yours. small one. We're joined by the

:30:42.:30:44.

former Deputy Leader of the Unite union, Jack Dromey and our guest of

:30:44.:30:50.

the day, Jon Moulton, is still with us. In 1985 Margaret Thatcher said

:30:50.:30:54.

the top fare makers in the city make one gasp they're so large. Do

:30:54.:30:58.

you ever gasp at the size of salarys in your industry? I am not

:30:58.:31:07.

in the City with the FTSE 100 lot. Their pay is remarkably high, 4

:31:07.:31:10.

point something million average. It's hard to believe that you

:31:10.:31:16.

actually need to pay that sort of money to get people to perform well.

:31:16.:31:20.

You know? You can get perfectly good TV presenters for a lot less.

:31:20.:31:24.

You certainly can. A great deal less. Before you answer that we're

:31:24.:31:27.

going to welcome our viewers from Scotland who have been watching

:31:27.:31:29.

First Minister's Questions in Holyrood. Welcome to the Daily

:31:29.:31:33.

Politics. Let's come back to perhaps not the pay of TV

:31:33.:31:37.

presenters but yes, your point about the fact people are paid too.

:31:37.:31:41.

When you say those salaries are too high, what is too high? They're by

:31:41.:31:45.

international standards - the UK is pretty well the highest payer of

:31:45.:31:49.

CEOs now. We're way ahead of Germany, France, Italy, even the

:31:49.:31:53.

United States. We're ahead of the Americans? We are. Why has that

:31:53.:31:57.

happened? I think the main thing that's happened is the perversity

:31:57.:32:02.

is when we set up these remuneration committee at the

:32:02.:32:07.

boards these became part of corporate governance, saying we'll

:32:07.:32:10.

pay in the top quarter of the industry. As a result they started

:32:11.:32:16.

chasing each other at pace. It's most of the last 20 years you'll

:32:16.:32:18.

see much higher rates of acceleration of senior pay than

:32:19.:32:23.

middle and lower. Should there be a cap? A firm cap probably doesn't

:32:23.:32:26.

need to exist. I think the right answer is gradually drifting into

:32:26.:32:32.

sight, which is shareholders voting on remuneration packages and voting

:32:32.:32:35.

some down. Some have done that we have some notable examples. Jack

:32:35.:32:41.

Dromey, isn't that a better way to go than to have a blanket cap?

:32:41.:32:47.

Let's start with what the nature of the problem is. We have had soaring

:32:47.:32:51.

boardroom pay - it's not based on merit. If you look at the

:32:51.:32:53.

performance of the companies compared to what they have been

:32:53.:32:57.

getting in the boardroom, it's not based on merit. All too often it

:32:57.:33:02.

rewards failure. Why? Because you've got this cosy old-boys club

:33:02.:33:06.

of remuneration committees. They all fix one another's salaries.

:33:06.:33:13.

It's a you-scratch-my-back, I'll- scratch yours. There is a second

:33:13.:33:20.

problem - the way remuneration works it insent rises short termism

:33:20.:33:24.

in our country. The gap from top to bottom is half what it is in

:33:24.:33:29.

Britain in Germany. What would you like to see? If you're not

:33:29.:33:33.

convinced by shareholders beginning to take action and voting with

:33:33.:33:38.

their feet, why do you think a cap proposed by the Europeans would be

:33:38.:33:42.

a good idea? You need complete transparency, the publication of

:33:42.:33:46.

top and medium pay. If there are significant changes in future you

:33:46.:33:49.

have to justify that the other thing is proper accountability. Why

:33:49.:33:53.

not workers on the board of remuneration committees? I know

:33:53.:33:58.

from my own past experience in the union workers would not begrudge a

:33:58.:34:02.

good governor a decent pay increase and also, crucially, that the

:34:02.:34:06.

investors, the pension fund managers - they should have to

:34:06.:34:09.

justify how they make their decision ass well. What do you say

:34:09.:34:15.

in response to those points? very basic point - these packages

:34:15.:34:21.

are very complicated. That's part of the problem, though. Long-term

:34:21.:34:26.

incentive plan, one-option scheme, three option scheme... Should they

:34:26.:34:29.

be simpler? Absolutely they should. There is no need for the complexity

:34:29.:34:33.

of some of these. The long-term incentive plans of most senior

:34:33.:34:37.

management are incomprehensive to., So even those who work in the City.

:34:37.:34:40.

Should politicians be getting involved in dictating what top

:34:40.:34:43.

executives should get or at least guiding them? I think they should

:34:43.:34:47.

be influencing it. We do need some sort of legal backing. It might be

:34:47.:34:51.

reasonable to have - if the Chief Executive is paid more than 20

:34:51.:34:56.

times average pay of the workforce you need a 70% share of the

:34:56.:34:59.

shareholders to vote for it. think it's absolutely right the

:34:59.:35:09.
:35:09.:35:14.

politicians act, not the least Regularly people say to me how

:35:14.:35:18.

wrong they think it is that your boardroom pay soars whilst their

:35:18.:35:23.

pay either is constrained or falls. What about the point that people

:35:23.:35:27.

will go elsewhere? You say Britain is ahead at the moment. That

:35:27.:35:31.

situation can change. These people are very mobile. If indeed the

:35:31.:35:36.

competitive pressure is there, that's fine. It isn't there in most

:35:36.:35:39.

cases. That's right. Do you think it's a myth put forward by people

:35:39.:35:44.

in the industry who say if we don't pay top dollar... What is

:35:44.:35:48.

remarkable is how it's so concentrated at the top. This isn't

:35:48.:35:54.

in the middle ranks in the same way. This is a UK phenomenon at its

:35:55.:36:00.

extreme. Why don't Labour take a leaf out of the Social Democrats'

:36:00.:36:04.

book? What they were considering? If a company pays a Chief Executive

:36:04.:36:09.

�20 manage, say, a big salary, all of that �20 million is tax

:36:09.:36:12.

deductsable before that company pace corporation tax. It's a cost.

:36:12.:36:16.

What the Social Democrats said was anything over, say, a million, you

:36:16.:36:21.

can still pay them more than a million but none of it over a

:36:21.:36:26.

million is tax deductible. Sure. You do learn - we have been arguing

:36:26.:36:28.

very strongly for transparency and accountability as a first step. I

:36:28.:36:33.

think at the next stages, absolutely, we need to draw upon

:36:33.:36:36.

European examples, in particular, Germany, because in Germany, the

:36:36.:36:43.

gap is half what it is in Britain, and Germany is a successful long-

:36:43.:36:47.

term-ist economy. Why don't you go for that idea? We learned very

:36:47.:36:55.

valuable lessons from Germany. Watch this space because Chukka

:36:55.:36:59.

made it very clear earlier on that it is wrong at a time like this,

:36:59.:37:03.

but also, if we're going to put right our economy - deep-seated

:37:03.:37:07.

difficulties over 30 years, this is a nettle we have to grasp. There is

:37:07.:37:13.

one thing I would like to chuck in. Chuck in, Chuckca! The FTSE 100 now

:37:13.:37:18.

is very largedy... They're not British companies. There is

:37:18.:37:20.

confusion there. Thank you very much.

:37:20.:37:30.
:37:30.:37:51.

This morning, Britain's most Senior The Prime Minister decided on the

:37:51.:37:55.

basis of the genuine interests to draw a line under the matter. That

:37:55.:38:01.

was what his position was. I work for the Prime Minister. So it was

:38:02.:38:05.

decided to possibly accept that Andrew Mitchell was lying? I don't

:38:05.:38:08.

think the Prime Minister at any stage thought Andrew Mitchell was

:38:08.:38:13.

lying. If he was telling the truth, then somebody else was lying.

:38:13.:38:17.

in life you sometimes have a difference of view as to what was

:38:17.:38:20.

said. You didn't feel it was part of your investigation to get to the

:38:20.:38:23.

bottom of that? No, it would be impossible for me to do that

:38:23.:38:26.

without investigating the police. It's not my job to investigate the

:38:26.:38:34.

police. Did you ask to see the police log? No. No. Can you just

:38:34.:38:38.

explain why you didn't ask to see the police log? Because I didn't

:38:38.:38:41.

think it was appropriate for me to be investigating the police log. I

:38:41.:38:45.

didn't think it was necessary for me... Investigating the police log

:38:45.:38:49.

- it was a question to see whether Mr Mitchell was telling the truth

:38:49.:38:55.

or not. Would you not have wanted to see the police log? It's very,

:38:55.:38:58.

very important not to get confusion here. My review, set by the Prime

:38:58.:39:02.

Minister, was into the e-mails, not into the police log. I didn't think

:39:02.:39:05.

I needed to see the police logs in order to draw the conclusions that

:39:05.:39:09.

I did about the e-mails, which were that they were not reliable and

:39:09.:39:12.

therefore that Andrew Mitchell should be kept in his position.

:39:12.:39:21.

Your remit was very limited? Very Every now and again the curtains

:39:21.:39:26.

pull back and you see the senior Civil Service in action in this

:39:26.:39:29.

country. You can decide whether or not it's a pretty sight. We're

:39:29.:39:38.

joined by Conservative MP Alan Johnson. -- Kerns. Did Heywood make

:39:38.:39:47.

a complete horlik of all of this? As he analysed the evidence there

:39:47.:39:51.

was clearly inconsistently from the e-mail to the log to the CCTV. He

:39:51.:39:57.

hadn't brought them all together. If he had, that would have showed

:39:57.:40:01.

serious tkwheas should have been brought to the police or the IPCC

:40:01.:40:11.
:40:11.:40:25.

Is it not his job to mark the Prime Minister's card? Is it not his job

:40:25.:40:30.

to say, look, Prime Minister, I've seen the police - the police log.

:40:30.:40:36.

I've seen the CCTV footage. The two don't mesh. You'd better be careful

:40:36.:40:39.

about this? That's the point. Sir Jeremy Heywood said he hadn't seen

:40:39.:40:42.

the police log, but the challenge I made to him is it was in the Daily

:40:42.:40:47.

Telegraph. Exactly - or was suggested to be the police log. He

:40:47.:40:50.

wasn't sure that was the police log in the Daily Telegraph, but I would

:40:50.:40:53.

have thought there was sufficient evidence there to warrant further

:40:53.:40:57.

investigation. After that displace, would you get him to organise the

:40:57.:41:01.

proverbial in a brewery? That's the right question. Was he the right

:41:01.:41:04.

person to do it. That's what the chairman of the committee was doing

:41:04.:41:08.

should it have gone to the Prime Minister's advisor on the

:41:08.:41:10.

Ministerial Code. If the Prime Minister - in the United States,

:41:10.:41:15.

the president would have got one of his senior political advisors to do

:41:15.:41:20.

this, and to be aware with political antennae because this

:41:20.:41:24.

involved a Cabinet Minister, a Prime Ministerial appointment - and

:41:24.:41:26.

a political advisor would have raised all of these things with the

:41:26.:41:30.

Prime Minister. Well, I'm not sure it has to be a political advisor

:41:30.:41:34.

because I think the press itself would then say you've got a

:41:34.:41:38.

politician investigating a politician. That would undermine it.

:41:38.:41:41.

I am not talking an official investigation. I am talking the

:41:41.:41:46.

Prime Minister to one of his senior advisors, can you go find out about

:41:46.:41:49.

this Mitchell business? Go and get the facts. The Prime Minister did

:41:49.:41:54.

say, will you investigate the e- mails and look at the case? He kept

:41:54.:42:00.

on saying, "But I was only asked to look at the e-mails, nothing else."

:42:00.:42:03.

That's what I would expect Sir Jeremy Heywood to come back to the

:42:03.:42:06.

Prime Minister to say this needs widening if that was the limit of

:42:06.:42:10.

the investigation in the first. Your lot weren't impressed with him

:42:10.:42:15.

this morning, were you? He left some questions unanswered.

:42:15.:42:19.

LAUGHTER We need to remember... Say what you

:42:19.:42:23.

mean. We were limited, in fairness, in terms of what we could say. I

:42:23.:42:27.

was called to order on one occasion because there was a police

:42:27.:42:30.

investigation ongoing. We don't want to prejudice that inquiry.

:42:30.:42:33.

What was also important to me is Sir Jeremy Heywood responded to a

:42:33.:42:37.

complaint by Yvette Cooper before, I would suggest, he went into the

:42:37.:42:41.

CCTV and he looked at the police log, if he looked at the police log

:42:41.:42:46.

at all. I thought on the one hand he said having received a complaint

:42:46.:42:50.

from such a senior politician I had to investigate it. I am not clear

:42:50.:42:55.

he did so. I find this incomprehensible. You have an event,

:42:55.:42:59.

a police log, some e-mails and some CCTV. How can it take an

:42:59.:43:02.

intelligent person more than 15 minutes to review the bloody lot

:43:02.:43:06.

and come up with the right answer? Whether that was somebody from the

:43:06.:43:09.

Attorney General's office, a political advisor, one of the

:43:09.:43:12.

Number Ten staff? Anybody would have come to a conclusion in very

:43:12.:43:18.

short order. He also later said he suspected there was the possibility

:43:18.:43:21.

of a gigantic conspiracy. That was investigated, and I'm a bit

:43:21.:43:26.

confused by that, particularly in he was looking at in isolation each

:43:26.:43:29.

element rather than bringing them all together. We're now waiting on

:43:30.:43:34.

the police investigation? That's got to be given a run... This is

:43:35.:43:39.

just the police investigating themselves. Yes, absolutely and the

:43:39.:43:42.

IPCC if necessary. Even again, though, why would that take more

:43:42.:43:47.

than a day? This is not a monumentally complex event? They

:43:47.:43:51.

need to pursue the evidence. We're going to Aberdeen now. All of us.

:43:51.:43:56.

Thanks for joining us. Thank you very much. It may be one of

:43:56.:44:00.

Scotland's wealthiest cities... Scotland's wealthiest cities...

:44:00.:44:06.

Thank you. Let's not qualify that! Doesn't take too kindly to its

:44:06.:44:10.

poorest inhabitants. The city council wants to ban beggars from

:44:10.:44:20.

its streets. From and, a Kevin Keen It's something politicians the

:44:20.:44:24.

world over have been trying to find a solution to, probably before

:44:24.:44:28.

money ever existed. A string of plans here in Aberdeen in recent

:44:28.:44:31.

years have all failed. Now the latest administration at the

:44:31.:44:36.

council is trying again. In 2008, these giving boxes were installed

:44:36.:44:40.

at key points across the city centre. People were urged in ad

:44:40.:44:44.

campaigns not to give their loose change to beggars. Instead, the

:44:44.:44:48.

contents of the box would be given to homeless charities. But some of

:44:48.:44:52.

them were broken into, and crucially, the number of beggars in

:44:52.:44:57.

Aberdeen stayed about the same. attempt was then made to introduce

:44:57.:45:02.

a bylaw so the beggars could be moved on, but legal advisors

:45:02.:45:06.

advised the then-administration you can't make it illegal for someone

:45:06.:45:09.

to just be in a public place and that aggressive begging is already

:45:10.:45:14.

covered in law. So it's back to the drawing board. A new administration

:45:14.:45:19.

has now taken over in Aberdeen, and they're keen to re-examine the

:45:19.:45:21.

bylaw option, saying they're more confident now that it can be

:45:21.:45:27.

brought in. Joining us now from Aberdeen, Scotland's richest city

:45:27.:45:31.

is the leader of the city's council, Labour's Barney Crockett and Mark

:45:31.:45:35.

McDonald from Edinburgh, who is the Scottish National Party MSP for the

:45:35.:45:38.

north-east region. Welcome to both of you. First of all to Barney

:45:38.:45:45.

Crockett - how big a problem is How big a problem is begging in

:45:45.:45:50.

Aberdeen? It's not a huge problem, it's something that is significant

:45:50.:45:54.

and there are growth features in. We are looking for tools to try and

:45:54.:45:58.

help that situation and we think one of the things we need is the

:45:58.:46:03.

ability to control it through legal methods as is in other parts of the

:46:03.:46:06.

United Kingdom. But why? Begging is something that happens in most

:46:06.:46:10.

cities. If it's not a particularly big problem in Aberdeen and if the

:46:10.:46:15.

beggars aren't being aggressive why do you think you need to go down

:46:15.:46:19.

the legal route to ban it? First of all, we have a strong record of

:46:19.:46:21.

helping people in difficult circumstances and I think that we

:46:21.:46:25.

want to take that further and I think this gives us a way of making

:46:25.:46:29.

an intervention. It can be effective. Also, we face - it was

:46:29.:46:33.

mentioned, that we are perhaps the only UK city that's doing

:46:33.:46:36.

particularly well at the moment and we are certainly one of the key

:46:36.:46:41.

growth cities in the UK. We do attract people in. We welcome

:46:41.:46:46.

people. We need people to be coming in. But we want to give them

:46:46.:46:49.

positive futures than begging on the streets and we think this is

:46:49.:46:54.

one of the possible ways. What's your problem with that, Mark

:46:54.:46:58.

McDonald? This is entirely the wrong approach. It's essentially

:46:58.:47:01.

criminalising people who are vulnerable, it doesn't tackle the

:47:01.:47:06.

causes of why people end up begging. It tackles the effect. It may make

:47:06.:47:13.

streets look nicer to put beggars off into the justice system but it

:47:13.:47:16.

does nothing to resolve problems that allow people to fall into that

:47:16.:47:19.

position, whether that's through people who have found themselves

:47:19.:47:22.

homeless, find themselves with mental health problems, addiction

:47:23.:47:27.

problems. There are many route causes of why people beg,

:47:27.:47:30.

criminalising them isn't going to make it go away. Are you going to

:47:30.:47:33.

try to stop this going through? Scottish Government's made it clear

:47:33.:47:41.

they see no reason for a buy-law banning begging. The piece there

:47:41.:47:45.

said aggressive begging is dealt with. We have breach of the peace

:47:45.:47:50.

laws which can deal when that arises. The key thing is to have

:47:50.:47:54.

agencies working together to help these people not to victimise and

:47:54.:47:57.

criminalise them. I think you will struggle to find any of the key

:47:57.:48:01.

charities, either in Aberdeen or nationally who deal with beggars

:48:01.:48:05.

who are saying they want to see a bye-law introduced. You haven't

:48:05.:48:09.

really got the support for this then? I think we have the support

:48:09.:48:15.

in the city. I think that... Do you from charities? I think that the

:48:15.:48:20.

problem I have is that cities must have the ability to make their own

:48:20.:48:23.

decisions in looking at the future and I think that it's important

:48:23.:48:27.

that Aberdeen is not put at a big disadvantage compared to cities in

:48:27.:48:31.

the rest of the UK. A recent survey said Aberdeen was one of the three

:48:32.:48:34.

best places in the UK for investment. But the warning was

:48:34.:48:38.

there that cities and devolved regions were doing slightly better

:48:38.:48:43.

than in England but the warning was that an undue influence from

:48:43.:48:47.

central Government could be a big problem and I think here we have,

:48:47.:48:51.

we are looking for a local solution to a local problem. I don't think

:48:51.:48:55.

it's helpful to have a a Scottish Government wading in. There is a

:48:55.:49:00.

clear message there. But basically stop interfering. If devolution is

:49:00.:49:04.

going to work they should be allowed to make their own mind up?

:49:04.:49:07.

Any bye-law requires Scottish Government approval and that's the

:49:07.:49:11.

nature of the law in Scotland. I am simply saying - I think that I

:49:11.:49:15.

don't want to see people begging on the streets either. The difference

:49:15.:49:22.

with myself and the Councilor Crockett, I think you should help

:49:22.:49:30.

to look people begging. It's a Dickensian approach to criminalise

:49:30.:49:35.

those people. Rather than helped appropriately. Thank you both very

:49:35.:49:45.
:49:45.:49:48.

much. Looks nice in Aberdeen behind him

:49:48.:49:51.

there. We should do the programme there one day. A great city. Ken

:49:51.:49:52.

Livingstone loves it, Boris thinks it annihilates distance, liquidates

:49:53.:49:55.

traffic and is the throbbing cardiovascular system of the

:49:55.:50:01.

greatest city on the earth. I am not talking about happy in our the

:50:01.:50:03.

West End, but the London Underground which which opened its

:50:03.:50:13.
:50:13.:50:15.

doors to passengers 150 years ago # It's your train...

:50:15.:50:19.

Ah, the tube, I couldn't get to work without it. Apart from when

:50:19.:50:23.

they're on strike and it's been serving Londoners for a century and

:50:23.:50:26.

a half, it's also being a magnet for politicians when they want to

:50:26.:50:32.

ditch the limo and look normal but what are the tube habits of these

:50:32.:50:38.

well known London MPs? How much do you love or loath the tube? I love

:50:38.:50:45.

the tube. It gets a pad press, un-- a bad press. It's reliable,

:50:45.:50:49.

sometimes lines go down, engineering work at weekends, but

:50:49.:50:55.

it's the quickest way of getting from A to B. I love the tube. I

:50:55.:50:59.

learned to drive about four months ago so all my life I have used the

:50:59.:51:04.

tube. I love the tube. I use it often and London wouldn't be London

:51:05.:51:09.

without the tube and my constituency would not be linked to

:51:09.:51:13.

the rest of London without the tube. Do you stand up when there is an

:51:13.:51:19.

elderly person or pregnant laid? -- ladyy. Tkoeu stand up for the

:51:20.:51:25.

elderly, although I get nervous sometimes about pregnant women! And

:51:25.:51:30.

getting it wrong. Have you ever been caught fare-dodging? Certainly

:51:30.:51:35.

not. I wouldn't admit it to you anyway! Do you always mind the gap?

:51:35.:51:41.

I always mind the gap. I get scared. I always stand behind the yellow

:51:41.:51:45.

line. I also, if people aren't moving along so other people can

:51:45.:51:51.

get on, I become a supplemental conductor to say, move on, come on!

:51:51.:51:56.

And they normally do. Which Tube Station is the only one that

:51:56.:52:01.

doesn't contain any of the letters in the words mackerel? Oh, you are

:52:01.:52:08.

joking! Oh, I do know, is it Vauxhall? No. I am afraid I have to

:52:08.:52:15.

pass on that one thrfrpblgts's so many --. There's so many tube

:52:15.:52:21.

staugss -- stations. I haven't a clue. St John's Wood. I have been

:52:21.:52:25.

there once or twice. I have been there, normally actually with the

:52:25.:52:29.

pheriest of hearts because I am on the way to watch cricket at Lords.

:52:29.:52:33.

Oh no, I forgot to ask them the most important question of all -

:52:33.:52:38.

what do you do when you are really annoyed by the person who sits down

:52:38.:52:46.

next to you? You try to ignore the Prime

:52:46.:52:51.

Minister if you found him on the tube, wouldn't you? It used to be

:52:51.:52:56.

said of Mussolini, at least he used to make the trains run on time. One

:52:57.:53:03.

reason why no one could ever mistake our next guest for a

:53:03.:53:13.

fascist. Bob Crowe. Do you happen by tube. On London. Why does it

:53:13.:53:19.

always stop in Hendon? It should never have stopped at Hendon. It

:53:19.:53:26.

was shut down by the Labour Party. Glenda Jackson as the transport

:53:26.:53:34.

Minister was to shut down that line. It should have been extended.

:53:34.:53:40.

you offer up your seat? Certainly, yeah. To whom? No one younger than

:53:40.:53:47.

me. We are narrowing it. A woman pregnant, baby on board. Elderly

:53:47.:53:55.

person. People with kids, yeah, certainly. John? Do you travel by

:53:55.:54:01.

tube? I may be younger by him. you travel by tube? Occasionally.

:54:01.:54:08.

Would you give up your seat? course. Best and worst experience?

:54:08.:54:13.

Best experience is every day, actually. To get from parts of the

:54:13.:54:19.

suburbs into London in 25 minutes, no way to beat it. The worst

:54:19.:54:25.

scenario was stuck down a tube tunnel for over an hour and being

:54:25.:54:28.

evacuated. You had to walk along? It didn't concern me but for

:54:28.:54:34.

elderly people it was stressful for them. Shall we do our quiz? Do you

:54:35.:54:38.

agree with Boris, this isn't the quiz, you and Boris that the tube

:54:38.:54:44.

is the throbbing cardio vase skhrar system of the greatest city on

:54:44.:54:52.

earth. Absolutely. Ets do the quiz. Which chat show host was reportedly

:54:52.:55:00.

born in a in station. Springer. What is the mosquito named after

:55:00.:55:07.

the tube called? They thought about that! I thought might be trickier.

:55:07.:55:11.

We call it the tube and the Americans call it the subway.

:55:11.:55:19.

What percentage of the underground is under grown? -- underground?

:55:19.:55:25.

say probably 60%. 40%. You say 40%. You are closer, it's 45%. We could

:55:25.:55:29.

be done under the trade descriptions act. The underground

:55:29.:55:37.

is actually 55% overground. Chesham, Watford, Epping. Most of the

:55:37.:55:45.

Metropolitan line out in the suburbs. They are talking about

:55:45.:55:50.

Crossrail two. North to south. see. A fantastic way. Only way you

:55:50.:55:53.

are going to improve the tube is more capacity. That's why Crossrail

:55:53.:55:57.

is a fantastic opportunity. The extension of the the Northern Line

:55:57.:56:03.

is fantastic. Crossrail is not the tube? It's the overground route

:56:03.:56:09.

going underground and joining? will be joined to the tube, coming

:56:09.:56:13.

to Whitechapel and Liverpool Street and through to Heathrow. But north

:56:13.:56:19.

to south will be the next. How many mice live on the tube? Never

:56:19.:56:26.

counted them. Who's counting them? The rats! Must be in the ten

:56:26.:56:30.

million. It says half a million. I think that's underestimated. It's

:56:30.:56:35.

got to be. Has anyone counted them? What is

:56:35.:56:44.

the London Underground known in Cockney rhyming slang? That's a

:56:44.:56:52.

good one. Must have heard it on Minder years ago. The Oxo. Never

:56:52.:57:00.

heard that before. The cube, tube. Never heard that. Do you think they

:57:00.:57:04.

shared a Christmas cracker? They're similar. The first journey on the

:57:04.:57:11.

tube, it took place today in 1863. Amazing it was the mid-19th century

:57:11.:57:16.

they could do all this. It shows you the engineers capacity in this

:57:16.:57:19.

country then. Paddington and Farringdon. Which notable person

:57:19.:57:26.

turned down the invitation? Good point. I guess he probably did,

:57:26.:57:31.

because the politician who first went on the overground train

:57:31.:57:41.
:57:41.:57:43.

journey he fell off the train and died. The Prime Minister? It was,

:57:43.:57:47.

Lord palmisson. He departed on a snooker table, didn't he? What was

:57:47.:57:55.

he doing? Not for this time of the day. Didn't he sire a child when I

:57:55.:57:59.

was about 70 and Disraeli said keep it quiet or he will be swept to

:57:59.:58:07.

power in an overall majority? We taught you about the Oxo. Let's

:58:07.:58:10.

carry on the theme of quizzes. We have just time to find out the

:58:10.:58:20.
:58:20.:58:23.

answer. Where does David Cameron What do you think, John? I don't

:58:23.:58:29.

think he would wear Hush Puppies. Or go to Sports Direct that leaves

:58:29.:58:37.

us with the third option. Well done! It is Oliver Sweeney. He is a

:58:37.:58:42.

trendy designer. Never heard of him. Thank you to all our guests. The

:58:42.:58:47.

Andrew Neil and Jo Coburn with the latest political news, interviews and debate, including US concern over a possible referendum on Britain's EU membership and the Tube's 150th anniversary.


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