Browse content similar to 01/02/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Afternoon, folks, welcome to the Daily Politics. | :00:40. | :00:43. | |
Spare a thought for poor, poor George Galloway, who was dished | :00:43. | :00:50. | |
this, at PMQs. Wherever there is a brutal Arab | :00:50. | :00:53. | |
dictator in the world, he'll have the support of the honourable | :00:53. | :00:56. | |
gentleman. We'll be talking to the man himself | :00:56. | :00:58. | |
about parliamentary etiquette, and supporting dictators. | :00:58. | :01:06. | |
Activism, or slacktivism? We'll be looking at the online organisation | :01:07. | :01:09. | |
that rallies mass outrage, but nobody's ever heard of it. | :01:09. | :01:13. | |
It's more like Downton Abbey than it is Parliament at the moment. But | :01:13. | :01:16. | |
is it really? Shocking new research reveals many | :01:16. | :01:22. | |
Tory MP are not, I repeat, not born with a silver spoon in their mouth. | :01:22. | :01:25. | |
And, is the stalking horse gathering momentum? We'll be taking | :01:25. | :01:35. | |
a look back at the week, in 60 All that in the next hour. And, | :01:35. | :01:38. | |
with us for the whole programme today, is the broadcaster Anne | :01:38. | :01:42. | |
Diamond. She rose to fame as part of a TV double act that's been | :01:42. | :01:45. | |
bettered only by myself and Jo Coburn! And now presents her own | :01:45. | :01:49. | |
radio phone-in show. And David Wooding, he's never been part of a | :01:49. | :01:53. | |
double act, as far as we know, but he is associate political editor at | :01:53. | :01:58. | |
the Sun. Welcome to you both. First, today: A senior counter- | :01:58. | :02:01. | |
terrorism officer has been sentenced to 15 months in prison | :02:01. | :02:04. | |
for offering to sell information to the News of the World about the | :02:04. | :02:06. | |
phone-hacking inquiry. Detective Chief Inspector April Casburn was | :02:07. | :02:10. | |
convicted of misconduct in public office. The judge at the Old Bailey | :02:10. | :02:14. | |
told her it was "a corrupt attempt to make money out of sensitive and | :02:14. | :02:24. | |
:02:24. | :02:26. | ||
potentially very damaging The judge said if she hadn't been | :02:26. | :02:31. | |
in the process of adopting a baby, she would have got three years, and | :02:31. | :02:37. | |
not 15 months. Although not directly related to hacking, this | :02:37. | :02:42. | |
is one of the first sentences now linked to the behaviour and conduct | :02:43. | :02:48. | |
of the media and the police. That leaves you asking more questions. | :02:48. | :02:53. | |
Did she actually sell information, or did she offered to sell | :02:53. | :02:58. | |
information? What was it about, what did it result in? We want to | :02:59. | :03:05. | |
know more. We are living in an age where we are seeing the results of | :03:05. | :03:11. | |
the post Leveson Inquiry. But we still need to know more. You worry | :03:11. | :03:15. | |
that we are actually flagellating our souls too much, maybe people | :03:15. | :03:19. | |
will be criticised for trivial things and you worry Baby we are | :03:20. | :03:27. | |
missing the bigger boat. The bigger boat is still coming down the river. | :03:27. | :03:31. | |
It is an indication, in matters of the conduct of the press and | :03:31. | :03:36. | |
relationship between press and police, the courts are up for jail | :03:36. | :03:41. | |
sentences. The areas they will at the top in | :03:41. | :03:46. | |
the establishment to lock people up. In this case, we have a police | :03:46. | :03:52. | |
officer who was concerned, in her view, the force was spending too | :03:52. | :03:57. | |
much time investigating what she thought was relatively, while a | :03:57. | :04:01. | |
criminal offence, a more trivial offence, more serious things were | :04:01. | :04:08. | |
being left undone. She rang out of concern, so she said, in court. | :04:08. | :04:14. | |
jury didn't believe her. I think there is a well among people... | :04:14. | :04:18. | |
Quite right, the jury did not like the idea a police officer who is | :04:18. | :04:23. | |
upset about something immediately thinks of ringing the News of the | :04:23. | :04:28. | |
World. We can't talk about the substance but I suspect it will | :04:28. | :04:33. | |
send a shiver down the spine of those other journalists and police | :04:33. | :04:38. | |
officers now being charged on related, similar type offences. | :04:38. | :04:45. | |
Clearly, the public is in the mind for jail sentences. | :04:45. | :04:49. | |
The other thing is people who called the police, called the press | :04:49. | :04:54. | |
as away of getting stories to the open, whistleblowers, maybe more | :04:55. | :05:00. | |
fearful. It's time for our daily quiz. The | :05:00. | :05:03. | |
question for today is: Sally Bercow, she's the tweeting wife of Speaker, | :05:03. | :05:06. | |
John Bercow, told her Twitter followers yesterday that she'd had | :05:06. | :05:09. | |
her first tattoo. So what do we think it was? Was it: | :05:10. | :05:15. | |
a) A portcullis? B) John Bercow's coat of arms? | :05:15. | :05:25. | |
:05:25. | :05:29. | ||
C) The names of her children? D) An anchor? | :05:29. | :05:33. | |
One of those is correct? At the end of the show, Anne and David will | :05:33. | :05:39. | |
give us the correct answer. Now, regular viewers of the Daily | :05:39. | :05:49. | |
Politics may have watched this on Wednesday. | :05:49. | :05:55. | |
George Galloway. Following yesterday's announcement, | :05:55. | :06:04. | |
will the Prime Minister described the key differences between the | :06:04. | :06:08. | |
hand chopping, throat cutting a jihadists, fighting the | :06:08. | :06:14. | |
dictatorship in Mali, that we are now to help to kill? And the | :06:14. | :06:20. | |
equally bloodthirsty jihadists that we are giving money, material, | :06:20. | :06:26. | |
political and diplomatic support to, in Syria? Has the promise de Red Ed | :06:26. | :06:32. | |
Frankenstein, and did you read it to the end? -- has the Prime | :06:32. | :06:38. | |
Minister. There is one thing certain. | :06:38. | :06:41. | |
Wherever there is a brutal Arab dictator in the world, he'll have | :06:41. | :06:43. | |
the support of the honourable gentleman. | :06:43. | :06:46. | |
David Cameron's response there caused a little bit of an upset. | :06:46. | :06:56. | |
Some viewers thought it was a tad rude. The Respect MP George | :06:56. | :07:06. | |
:07:06. | :07:07. | ||
Galloway, who asked the question, is here. | :07:07. | :07:14. | |
When you asked that question, did you not think that you were opening | :07:14. | :07:18. | |
yourself to the response but you got? | :07:18. | :07:23. | |
If not from that particular pot, when he flew off to pose for | :07:23. | :07:28. | |
pictures with the dictator of Algeria, and selling weapons to | :07:28. | :07:32. | |
every brutal Arab dictator that will pay, no. | :07:32. | :07:39. | |
In any case, vulgar abuse does not an answer make. What your viewers | :07:39. | :07:45. | |
have been saying to his, on a par with what is being said to me, | :07:45. | :07:48. | |
actually that is an interesting question, I wonder what the answer | :07:48. | :07:53. | |
is, David Cameron did not give it. All Western governments are | :07:53. | :07:57. | |
vulnerable to having supported Arab dictators but people can say, you | :07:57. | :08:02. | |
have your dictators and he has his dictators. | :08:02. | :08:09. | |
The British state is in the front of marketing weapons, and giving | :08:09. | :08:13. | |
diplomatic and put a little -- political support to a brutal Arab | :08:13. | :08:19. | |
dictators and jihadists in Syria. I was really asking, is it a case of | :08:19. | :08:23. | |
good Al-Qaeda in Syria and bad Al- Qaeda in Mali? We have been down | :08:23. | :08:31. | |
this road before. You and I equally on this platform are awed enough to | :08:31. | :08:36. | |
remember when we used to finance other jihadists who later became | :08:36. | :08:45. | |
Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan in the 80s. Whether the British state should be | :08:45. | :08:52. | |
doing this. BG had this in northern Mali, and fighting the government | :08:52. | :08:59. | |
in its area. It seems pretty care the jihadists had taken control of | :08:59. | :09:03. | |
the movement in northern Mali, which had originally been for | :09:03. | :09:12. | |
autonomy. They were heading south, calling the shots by then. There is | :09:12. | :09:17. | |
no doubt that the jihadists are part of the uprising in that Syria | :09:17. | :09:20. | |
but they are not it by any means in control. | :09:20. | :09:26. | |
The New York Times thinks they are, the State Department talked about | :09:26. | :09:34. | |
the flicker of Al-Qaeda which has become a flame. But they have been | :09:34. | :09:39. | |
attacked by the people at the top of the insurgency. Those chaps you | :09:39. | :09:44. | |
seek on the news every night, especially on Sky News, lining up | :09:44. | :09:52. | |
prisoners to cut their heads off, video -- videoing themselves. They | :09:52. | :09:57. | |
sound dangerous to me. This is a Frankenstein monster created in | :09:57. | :10:02. | |
Afghanistan in the 1980s. If you have read Frankenstein's monster by | :10:02. | :10:08. | |
Mary Shelley, you'll note it is called a monster because you can't | :10:08. | :10:12. | |
control it once you have built it. And the Mostar isn't called | :10:12. | :10:16. | |
Frankenstein either. Does this then lead you to support Bashar al- | :10:16. | :10:22. | |
Assad? I do not support Bashar al- Assad or the jihadists. | :10:22. | :10:28. | |
research team has come up with plenty of quotes you being pretty | :10:28. | :10:31. | |
friendly to Bashar al-Assad, and pretty friendly to the dictatorship | :10:31. | :10:38. | |
of Syria. That's from 2005, I think. At the time he was riding around in | :10:38. | :10:43. | |
a carriage with the Queen up the mile and sleeping in her spare room. | :10:43. | :10:53. | |
:10:53. | :11:01. | ||
No, I support echo fin and Nana. -- support Kofi Annan. And a | :11:01. | :11:08. | |
transition to democracy. Syria, it is a complicated country with lots | :11:08. | :11:12. | |
of religious and ethnic minorities and strategically in an explosive | :11:12. | :11:22. | |
:11:22. | :11:24. | ||
place. What do you make them of it -- of Iran? We are sending the | :11:24. | :11:30. | |
enemies of Bashar al-Assad support. Britain and its American master. We | :11:30. | :11:35. | |
are giving their money. Then we are giving them arms. They can do with | :11:35. | :11:40. | |
the money what they like. Iranians are sending serious | :11:40. | :11:44. | |
weapons and even Revolutionary Guards have been sent there. | :11:44. | :11:48. | |
Serious weapons will not do basher macro any good. They are fighting | :11:48. | :11:53. | |
in the streets hand-to-hand with BT had this. I understand, they are | :11:53. | :11:57. | |
not arguing with you that there aren't jihad this involved, but you | :11:57. | :12:05. | |
have to admit they are not the lead this -- the leaders in this. I do | :12:05. | :12:10. | |
not accept that at all. The Syrian people had plenty to revolt about, | :12:10. | :12:17. | |
had plenty to rise up about. They have the same right to do so as any | :12:17. | :12:21. | |
people in the world. But no one who seriously studies this is in any | :12:21. | :12:26. | |
doubt the fighting is being done by foreign jihadists and in the main | :12:26. | :12:29. | |
and they will inherit the power. The people who do the fighting | :12:29. | :12:35. | |
other people who come to power. It is wise you not to dispute that | :12:35. | :12:39. | |
central point, because the time will come, if they win, when we | :12:39. | :12:42. | |
will be sitting here talking about their latest atrocity, perhaps | :12:42. | :12:50. | |
across the border in the UK, and US's favourite country, Israel. | :12:50. | :12:58. | |
one your by-election, so -- calling it the Bradford spring. Not the | :12:58. | :13:04. | |
Arab Spring? I am absolutely behind the Arab Spring. I have been | :13:04. | :13:08. | |
calling for a revolution in the Arab world, and this is a messy | :13:08. | :13:13. | |
business, you can't make omelettes without breaking eggs. How would | :13:13. | :13:18. | |
you describe its progress so far in Egypt and Libya? In Egypt, it is | :13:18. | :13:25. | |
not go well, in Tunisia it is better. In Syria, it is a disaster. | :13:25. | :13:31. | |
A classic case. We hated Colonel Gaddafi, then we hated him. We | :13:31. | :13:36. | |
delivered the jihadists to Colonel Gaddafi to be tortured. Then we | :13:36. | :13:39. | |
backed them to overthrow Colonel Gaddafi. Now they have killed the | :13:40. | :13:44. | |
American ambassador in Benghazi and we have a back we did all our | :13:44. | :13:47. | |
people from there. Will you be happy when Bashar al-Assad goes? | :13:47. | :13:52. | |
Yes, the people of Syria need to choose a ruler who was not part of | :13:52. | :13:59. | |
the same family as the dynasty they have had for 40 years there. We | :13:59. | :14:05. | |
need democracy in Syria, in Saudi Arabia, in all Arab countries. You | :14:05. | :14:10. | |
do not get democracy by bombing countries from a far, neither do | :14:10. | :14:16. | |
you get it by interposing jihadists of the Al-Qaeda stripe. Final | :14:16. | :14:24. | |
question. Were the French right to intervene in Marley? No, they are | :14:24. | :14:31. | |
the last people. Marley used to be called French Sudan. They eluted | :14:31. | :14:41. | |
:14:41. | :14:47. | ||
Marley, for as much as they could then carry -- looted Mali. 90% of | :14:47. | :14:57. | |
:14:57. | :15:01. | ||
Malians are Muslim. Then if the French hadn't intervened, it was | :15:01. | :15:05. | |
quite clear they were going to take the whole of the country. | :15:06. | :15:13. | |
throat-cutting, hand chopping jihad is you were complaining about. -- | :15:13. | :15:21. | |
jihadists. It is more complicated than that. There are legitimate | :15:21. | :15:28. | |
demands. But, the point is, the government of the country is a | :15:28. | :15:34. | |
military dictator, we are backing that. People are against it. We'll | :15:34. | :15:37. | |
see what happens. When terrible things start to happen, do not | :15:37. | :15:47. | |
:15:47. | :15:52. | ||
That is the problem, it goes back into history, as to where you think | :15:52. | :15:56. | |
allegiances should be? What would be the right thing for government | :15:56. | :16:02. | |
to do? I do not think Mali should be occupying our government at the | :16:02. | :16:08. | |
moment. It has to! Why? It is a faraway country in Africa. It | :16:08. | :16:14. | |
contains no threat to us. We have no historical relationships with it, | :16:14. | :16:18. | |
and we are broke! We can't keep pensioners warm in the winter time | :16:18. | :16:24. | |
but we are ready to help France set fire to Mali. It does not compute. | :16:24. | :16:30. | |
I would not give my son's life in Mali and I know you would not be | :16:30. | :16:34. | |
there but we are expecting other people to send their children there | :16:34. | :16:41. | |
and fight. These are complex issues. We view it with hindsight. We look | :16:41. | :16:46. | |
at Afghanistan now and say, if only we had not gone in. But what would | :16:46. | :16:52. | |
have happened if we hadn't gone in? Do we sit and do nothing? People of | :16:52. | :16:56. | |
suffering in Syria. I think we probably would go in if we thought | :16:56. | :17:01. | |
it was safe and if we had the money and the stomach for it, but we | :17:01. | :17:06. | |
don't after Iraq. Bad things are happening all over the world. We | :17:06. | :17:11. | |
are a small country off the north coast of Europe that is virtually | :17:11. | :17:15. | |
bankrupt. It would be better if the British Government concentrated on | :17:15. | :17:20. | |
six in our own problems at home. George, stick with us. Thank you. | :17:20. | :17:25. | |
This week it was bees in Europe. The week before it was oil in the | :17:25. | :17:32. | |
Amazon, and the week before that it was women's rights in India. They | :17:32. | :17:35. | |
are all campaigns that have been launched on the internet by the | :17:35. | :17:41. | |
group Avaaz. It means "voice". The biggest political organisation you | :17:41. | :17:44. | |
have never heard of. They have got 17 million members worldwide who | :17:45. | :17:48. | |
drive MPs mad by emailing them hundreds of times a day. But do you | :17:48. | :17:50. | |
know your Avaaz from your elbow? Our Adam does. | :17:50. | :17:55. | |
In the last year, at any event related to the Leveson Inquiry, you | :17:55. | :18:00. | |
found these guys. They belong to one organisation called Avaaz. | :18:00. | :18:07. | |
What? It means "voice" in Farsi and it is like Amazon for protesters. | :18:07. | :18:11. | |
You sign up and join other uses in whichever of their campaigns that | :18:11. | :18:16. | |
you fancy, and it has more than 70 million members worldwide, who | :18:16. | :18:21. | |
provide all the funding from small donations. They UK office is above | :18:21. | :18:28. | |
this burger bar in the West End. When we dropped in, they were in | :18:28. | :18:34. | |
the middle of a Skype corner with gay rights activists in Uganda. | :18:34. | :18:37. | |
Whether it is the future of media in the UK, whether it is bankers | :18:37. | :18:43. | |
and how they get away Scot free with so many misdemeanours or | :18:43. | :18:47. | |
whichever issue that members care about, like climate change, we can | :18:47. | :18:52. | |
jump quickly on to it. We can send messages out on these diverse | :18:52. | :18:56. | |
topics and find clever strategies to link the citizens on the ground | :18:56. | :19:02. | |
with the powers that be. Those techniques includes petitions, or | :19:02. | :19:11. | |
rallies, a newspaper adverts and became its. -- peak it's. A you can | :19:11. | :19:17. | |
see the detail here, these are mainly people speaking French... | :19:17. | :19:24. | |
The data about the uses drives what they do. A campaign idea could come | :19:24. | :19:29. | |
from a member in the UK, Venezuela, anywhere. We look at it and see if | :19:29. | :19:33. | |
we could make a difference and if it lines up with what members have | :19:33. | :19:37. | |
told us from their on-line polling that they are keen on, we would | :19:37. | :19:41. | |
send out a test message to 10,000 people and depending on the results | :19:41. | :19:48. | |
of that, we will stop in our tracks or go much fervour. Critics of what | :19:48. | :19:55. | |
they do say that clicking on the internet is not really politics. A | :19:55. | :20:03. | |
charge I put you Avaaz's found dead in New York. -- I put to Avaaz's | :20:03. | :20:10. | |
found in New York. Half of our community have just joined us in | :20:10. | :20:14. | |
the last year it so over time, people deepen their engagement. You | :20:14. | :20:19. | |
first sign up to it, it is a new community, you gradually build up | :20:19. | :20:23. | |
trust and engagement and gradually get more deeply involved. That is | :20:23. | :20:27. | |
what we have seen consistently. This is one of the things they are | :20:27. | :20:33. | |
most proud of. Many of the pictures that have emerged from Syria were | :20:33. | :20:39. | |
filmed on cambers provided by Avaaz. -- filmed on cameras. | :20:39. | :20:43. | |
And George Galloway is still with us. We are also joined by David | :20:43. | :20:46. | |
Babbs from another online organisation 38 Degrees. You | :20:46. | :20:51. | |
concentrate more on UK issues rather than global ones. Yes. | :20:51. | :20:56. | |
you having any influence? Yes. 38 Degrees have 1.3 million members | :20:57. | :21:01. | |
across the UK. Yesterday you reported on the BBC that the | :21:01. | :21:05. | |
government had finally confirmed it was cancelling plans to sell off | :21:05. | :21:09. | |
England's woodlands. That was a campaign that 30 degrees members | :21:09. | :21:17. | |
started online. -- 38 Degrees. Half a million of a sign that position. | :21:17. | :21:20. | |
You saw the result yesterday. Government policy completely | :21:21. | :21:26. | |
changed, thanks to the work of 38 Degrees members. You claim to have | :21:26. | :21:29. | |
more members than every major political party in this country | :21:29. | :21:35. | |
combined? That is right, yes. Membership for a 38 Degrees member | :21:35. | :21:40. | |
is different to a membership of a political party. You do not have to | :21:40. | :21:45. | |
get involved in it every campaign. It is much more opt in. You have a | :21:45. | :21:49. | |
choice as to which campaign you take part in but most of our | :21:49. | :21:53. | |
members are very active, both at home to his neck in their office, | :21:53. | :21:57. | |
but more and more meeting in their local communities -- both at home | :21:58. | :22:04. | |
or in the office. They do meet? This week I was meeting members in | :22:04. | :22:08. | |
Lewisham organising a campaign to save their local hospital, and we | :22:08. | :22:11. | |
were part of the demonstration that took place on Saturday. Some | :22:11. | :22:15. | |
members were outside their council buildings in Cumbria yesterday | :22:15. | :22:19. | |
celebrating the decision they had been calling for to cancel plans to | :22:19. | :22:24. | |
build a nuclear dump in the Lake District. He starts on internet but | :22:24. | :22:29. | |
that is not where it ends. Yes, it gets a manifestation on the streets. | :22:29. | :22:33. | |
What do you say to critics that referred to you, it makes people | :22:33. | :22:37. | |
feel good for the moment as they click but it is not real | :22:37. | :22:45. | |
engagement? It is the junk food of democracy, I am quoting somebody. | :22:45. | :22:48. | |
You will always get some elitists in the political establishment who | :22:48. | :22:53. | |
would rather that ordinary people left them alone to get on with a | :22:53. | :22:57. | |
complicated business of government but what 38 Degrees members believe, | :22:57. | :23:01. | |
is that democracy is better if more people getting involved and getting | :23:01. | :23:05. | |
involved has to start somewhere. The first thing to do for a lot of | :23:05. | :23:09. | |
people is not to decide to run parliament and joined a political | :23:09. | :23:14. | |
party, it will be to sign a petition. And it could give them an | :23:14. | :23:19. | |
appetite? Yes, I was chatting with a member, Ken in the West Midlands, | :23:19. | :23:25. | |
who is organising a saving of the NHS campaigns in the West Midlands. | :23:25. | :23:29. | |
He first signed the forest perdition. He is now very active in | :23:29. | :23:33. | |
the community and is standing up for local health services but it | :23:33. | :23:39. | |
started with an online petition. Degrees is the critical angle at | :23:39. | :23:45. | |
which another large can start. did not know that! There we are. We | :23:45. | :23:49. | |
need to know we do not undervalue the power of the mass clicking on | :23:49. | :23:55. | |
this. My sons get their news information online and through | :23:55. | :23:58. | |
Facebook and all of the ways that I know you reach out to people and | :23:58. | :24:03. | |
one day, we will vote online and when people like 38 Degrees and | :24:03. | :24:07. | |
other organisations can influence people on screen, we will all be | :24:07. | :24:14. | |
multi-screen in a few years, you can move your mouse and click for a | :24:14. | :24:22. | |
particular vote, I think we really have to not call them slack | :24:22. | :24:25. | |
activists but understand that people sitting in front of a screen | :24:25. | :24:30. | |
have the same power as we used to have in a queue. There is a danger | :24:30. | :24:35. | |
that this amount of activity and interest and participation, that it | :24:35. | :24:39. | |
leads the dead tree press behind. That is why we have to change and | :24:39. | :24:43. | |
move with the times. We try to embrace the online world. In the | :24:43. | :24:51. | |
old days, on the local paper, you would go down to the local council | :24:51. | :24:58. | |
with a sackful of petitions. It is different now. Now, if I write | :24:58. | :25:02. | |
something I don't like, I hear about it on Twitter! People can | :25:02. | :25:08. | |
come and interact with you. It has brought the country closer together. | :25:08. | :25:14. | |
It is amazing. These are very impressive numbers, one win 3 | :25:14. | :25:20. | |
million, 17 million for Avaaz. -- 1.3 million. The eye had never | :25:20. | :25:30. | |
heard of it. -- I had never. I thought it was something to do with | :25:30. | :25:36. | |
Keith Vaz! I have over $100,000 on Twitter and Facebook. This is the | :25:36. | :25:42. | |
future. There is the danger it is a mile wide and an inch deep. This is | :25:42. | :25:47. | |
the danger of manipulation. I do not know who is behind Avaaz. Is | :25:47. | :25:52. | |
there an agenda? The big campaign about the child soldiers fellow in | :25:52. | :26:00. | |
Uganda turned out to be some hopes, some subterfuge. It can happen on | :26:00. | :26:04. | |
the internet but of course it can happen also in the mass media. But | :26:04. | :26:09. | |
I would not follow the Times, David, because the Times is going down | :26:09. | :26:19. | |
:26:19. | :26:21. | ||
even faster than that Sun! The one that Andrew used to, be such a | :26:21. | :26:25. | |
distinguished editor of us. The Dead Tree Press, as you put it, is | :26:25. | :26:30. | |
finished. Ten years from now, all TV, everything, it will be on the | :26:30. | :26:36. | |
internet. Is there not another danger, this is not a pretty word, | :26:36. | :26:45. | |
but it only encourages opposition- itis. There will always be some | :26:45. | :26:50. | |
group of people against it, even if what they are doing is right. Let's | :26:50. | :26:54. | |
take a case of a local hospital. Obviously everybody hate their | :26:54. | :26:58. | |
hospitals to be closed but not every time a local hospital is | :26:58. | :27:01. | |
closed is it necessarily a bad thing for the overall health of the | :27:01. | :27:06. | |
nation. But groups like yours are always against something rather | :27:06. | :27:11. | |
than for something. That is not true. 38 Degrees members are up for | :27:11. | :27:17. | |
getting involved in solutions. Last year, hundreds of thousands of | :27:17. | :27:20. | |
members got in a campaign which we called the Big Switch, about | :27:20. | :27:24. | |
challenging the power of the gas and electricity companies to get a | :27:24. | :27:29. | |
better deal, so they signed up to negotiate with the companies and | :27:29. | :27:35. | |
drive a hard bargain with them. Using our collective consumer power. | :27:35. | :27:39. | |
Through that, thousands and thousands of members switched | :27:39. | :27:44. | |
energy power and collectively saved �23 million. It really worked. | :27:44. | :27:49. | |
are using the collective power art -- against the oligarchy of energy | :27:49. | :27:55. | |
companies. It is only by consumers getting together that you have the | :27:55. | :28:00. | |
counterweight of power. Precisely. One of the exciting things about be | :28:00. | :28:04. | |
internet visitor allows ordinary people to pour resources and level | :28:04. | :28:10. | |
playing fields, to answer back to journalists. What is next? | :28:10. | :28:14. | |
Degrees members decide together what is next so it is hard for me | :28:14. | :28:20. | |
to say. Is at the wisdom of crowds? We regularly ask members on what | :28:20. | :28:24. | |
issues they want to campaign on. A very big priority is protecting the | :28:24. | :28:29. | |
NHS. The online community may already be a huge segment of the | :28:29. | :28:33. | |
population that is already disaffected with broadcasters, | :28:33. | :28:39. | |
newspapers... With the establishment way of expressing | :28:39. | :28:44. | |
ourselves. Maybe that community has not been heard for years. Looking | :28:44. | :28:51. | |
back, have you, Avaaz, similar groups, do you think, that is one | :28:51. | :28:56. | |
we should not have got involved in, that was a mistake? I don't think | :28:56. | :29:02. | |
so actually. The it is going to happen. One of the advantages of | :29:02. | :29:04. | |
having over 1 million people involved in the decision-making | :29:04. | :29:08. | |
process for what we do is that every decision we take is subject | :29:08. | :29:13. | |
to a lot of scrutiny. I am not saying that is a reason for not | :29:13. | :29:17. | |
doing things. It is in the nature of things that one day you were | :29:17. | :29:20. | |
rushed into a campaign and it will turn out to be not quite what you | :29:20. | :29:29. | |
thought it was. Hitler's diary. was going to ask you, have you done | :29:29. | :29:35. | |
one that you regret!? I was certainly surprised when our | :29:35. | :29:39. | |
members Prix amortised campaign on England's and woodlands. It was not | :29:39. | :29:45. | |
an issue that I would have prioritised living in London -- | :29:45. | :29:49. | |
prioritise the campaign on England's woodlands. But the more | :29:49. | :29:52. | |
people you off to campaign, at the higher the quality of decisions you | :29:53. | :29:57. | |
will get. There was an element of this in the Arab Spring, | :29:58. | :30:03. | |
particularly in Cairo when people use their mobile phones. The Hosni | :30:03. | :30:08. | |
Mubarak regime tried to stop broadcasting from cellphones. | :30:08. | :30:13. | |
this genie is out of the bottle. Mr Murdoch, Hosni Mubarak, and nobody | :30:13. | :30:19. | |
can control it. It has to be more democratic than the way the media | :30:19. | :30:23. | |
was hitherto controlled. The day will come and not far off when | :30:23. | :30:33. | |
:30:33. | :30:40. | ||
people will vote on elections If I can now access my bank account | :30:40. | :30:49. | |
online, then surely they can have a system for voting. You do need to | :30:49. | :30:55. | |
be anonymous when you vote, which can make it difficult. You do get a | :30:55. | :31:04. | |
Here's your Friday trivia question. What book is now so long that it | :31:04. | :31:08. | |
would take the world's fastest speaker more than a week to get | :31:08. | :31:11. | |
through it? No, it's not War and Peace, the collected works of | :31:11. | :31:18. | |
Gordon Brown, or even Fifty Shades of Grey. It's the UK guide to tax | :31:18. | :31:25. | |
regulations. Surprised? Probably not particularly, if you've spent | :31:25. | :31:30. | |
the last week sorting out your tax return. The Tolley's Tax Guide was | :31:30. | :31:37. | |
quite a read in 2001, at 5,952 pages. By 2007, towards the end of | :31:37. | :31:41. | |
the Labour years, it was a shelf- creaking 9,866 pages. Now the book | :31:41. | :31:45. | |
is, wait for it, 17,795 pages. Not bad, when you consider that this | :31:45. | :31:55. | |
:31:55. | :32:03. | ||
coalition government promised to simplify tax when it took office. | :32:04. | :32:07. | |
Joining me from our Berkshire studios is the Conservative MP John | :32:07. | :32:14. | |
Redwood. I remember having a go at Gordon | :32:14. | :32:20. | |
Brown for over 10 years doubling the size of Tolley's. You're not | :32:20. | :32:26. | |
have managed to add thousands of more pages in only two years. | :32:26. | :32:31. | |
Depressing, isn't it? They needed to increase taxes to pay for the | :32:31. | :32:38. | |
spending Labour had already committed, and then the coalition | :32:38. | :32:42. | |
decided they wanted to increase spending by 1,500 pounds a year for | :32:42. | :32:46. | |
every person in the country by the end of their period in government, | :32:46. | :32:51. | |
and needed to raise taxes for that as well. They have been drafted in | :32:51. | :32:56. | |
to the same old way as Labour was, thinking, there is a pot of money | :32:56. | :33:00. | |
out there if only they could deal with the loopholes. I don't | :33:00. | :33:05. | |
understand how wanting more tax if leads to adding another 6,000 pages | :33:05. | :33:10. | |
to the Tax Guide. Surely putting up the tax rate doesn't change the | :33:10. | :33:20. | |
:33:20. | :33:24. | ||
guide itself. Child benefit, other things, the government has | :33:24. | :33:29. | |
enormously complicated matters. think they would do better to have | :33:29. | :33:33. | |
lower tax rates and fewer tax breaks. Because they have put the | :33:33. | :33:38. | |
tax rates up, people are not willing to pay them. And people are | :33:38. | :33:43. | |
able to find legal ways about them. They have been decided this is | :33:43. | :33:47. | |
dreadful and have come up with extra anti-avoidance devices which | :33:47. | :33:51. | |
are themselves very complicated and create more jobs for tax | :33:51. | :33:55. | |
accountants and lawyers. The result is they are collecting less tax. | :33:55. | :34:00. | |
The higher rates of tax on income tax and capital gains and stamp | :34:00. | :34:04. | |
duty has been counter-productive, they are getting less revenue than | :34:04. | :34:12. | |
planned. Correct me if I am wrong, didn't this government create the | :34:12. | :34:16. | |
Office for tax simplification? did. I believe it is still working | :34:16. | :34:23. | |
away. Kenya. Us to any achievement? It is not designed to do what we | :34:24. | :34:29. | |
have been talking about, to have lower rates, fewer breaks. It is | :34:29. | :34:34. | |
designed to take the massively complicated finance at and other | :34:34. | :34:44. | |
:34:44. | :34:46. | ||
legislation, and see if you can rewrite them in a simpler way -- | :34:46. | :34:52. | |
Finance Act. What we actually need is policy changes, George Galloway | :34:52. | :34:59. | |
in opposition suggested having a flat tax with no exceptions. If you | :34:59. | :35:06. | |
earn more, you pay more. If you have 18,000 pages in Tolley's, and | :35:06. | :35:11. | |
understand ours is the biggest in the world, more than the Americans | :35:11. | :35:20. | |
and Germans. You have immediately created an opportunity for smart | :35:20. | :35:24. | |
accountants, and for the well be people who can afford these smart | :35:24. | :35:29. | |
accountants. I honestly, I sincerely believe that this | :35:29. | :35:33. | |
government thought it could simplify things. The more you | :35:33. | :35:38. | |
simplify, unless human beings were all the same and equal, there is no | :35:38. | :35:41. | |
way of simplifying the system because it will always create | :35:41. | :35:47. | |
injustice for somebody. One of these simplifications that George | :35:47. | :35:57. | |
:35:57. | :36:02. | ||
Osborne tried was the eve pasty tax, and it blew up in his face. It was | :36:02. | :36:10. | |
a complicated issue, takeaways were charged at if they were hot. | :36:10. | :36:20. | |
:36:20. | :36:21. | ||
people, I would suggest, are the average tax payers who do their | :36:21. | :36:26. | |
PAYE, they have little latitude, tax is taken from their salary. | :36:26. | :36:34. | |
They don't have fancied deductions, ways of getting around it. The -- | :36:34. | :36:40. | |
fancy. The government is encouraging people to pay less tax | :36:40. | :36:46. | |
as well as moralising when they succeed in paying less. A pension | :36:46. | :36:52. | |
fund is a tax deferral which is perfectly legal. You will find that | :36:52. | :36:58. | |
the idea of tax breaks is embedded in our psychology and tax code. Or | :36:58. | :37:02. | |
some affect a large number of people who take advantage of them. | :37:02. | :37:07. | |
The government has to go for those much lower rates, and make it | :37:07. | :37:11. | |
easier for everybody. But, this government, with the Conservative | :37:11. | :37:20. | |
Chancellor, last year it introduced the biggest finance bill in British | :37:20. | :37:26. | |
history. And it doesn't seem to have a tax reforming bone in its | :37:26. | :37:30. | |
body. You must be very disappointed? I think he has got | :37:30. | :37:35. | |
stuck. His forecast assumed this big increase in current spending, | :37:35. | :37:40. | |
this very large increase in the amount of tax needed to pay for | :37:40. | :37:44. | |
extra spending and the inherited Sirpa spending. He has discovered | :37:44. | :37:50. | |
he is not raising the revenue. A tax reforming Chancellor as when he | :37:50. | :37:55. | |
began, has been blown off course by the magnitude of the task of paying | :37:55. | :38:00. | |
for all the spending. So, he is back in the trenches, trying to | :38:00. | :38:04. | |
take away some of the brakes people are using to successfully, and put | :38:04. | :38:08. | |
in the rates up and finding it is counter-productive. | :38:08. | :38:11. | |
Ed Milliband's fed up with the middle classes, and says he wants | :38:11. | :38:14. | |
more working class MPs. Well, perhaps he should look to the | :38:14. | :38:20. | |
Tories. Not only have they just chosen a former postman as a | :38:20. | :38:22. | |
candidate but, according to online magazine Political Quarterly, | :38:22. | :38:32. | |
:38:32. | :38:37. | ||
they're becoming as common as muck. Or are they? Here's Giles. | :38:37. | :38:39. | |
There is an image not altogether unfounded, but not without | :38:39. | :38:42. | |
political mischief that a Conservative MP is more usually a | :38:42. | :38:46. | |
man, wealthy, privately educated, Oxbridge. Nice, big house, likes | :38:46. | :38:54. | |
the bubbly. In a word, posh. Their opponents have lampooned it, and | :38:54. | :39:01. | |
used it, even impersonated it ever since an Etonian became PM. We have | :39:01. | :39:05. | |
had enough of the common herd trying to govern themselves and | :39:05. | :39:09. | |
failing dismally, it is about time people are probably bread and | :39:09. | :39:15. | |
dedicated to rule this country, got back in power, today is the day. | :39:15. | :39:20. | |
Day did current used to prance around the dreamy spires of Oxford | :39:20. | :39:25. | |
in a �1,000 a jacket. And you're telling me they are not elitist? | :39:25. | :39:30. | |
Get away. It is irritating but it is good, poor old fashioned, Class | :39:30. | :39:38. | |
War. The Labour Party seems to have rediscovered its old habits again. | :39:38. | :39:45. | |
Not long ago, I did and interview with Nadine Dorries and the subject | :39:45. | :39:49. | |
was whether Posh had become an issue which was toxic in politics. | :39:49. | :39:58. | |
We got more than we bargained for. Are they still two posh boys who | :39:58. | :40:03. | |
don't know the price of milk? only are David Cameron and George | :40:03. | :40:06. | |
Osborne these boys who don't know the price of milk, they are | :40:06. | :40:11. | |
arrogant posh boys, who show no remorse or contrition or passion to | :40:11. | :40:16. | |
want to understand the lives of others, that is their real crime. | :40:16. | :40:19. | |
Now, taking those words as a starting point, Politics Quarterly | :40:19. | :40:22. | |
has delved into the Parliamentary Party of 2010 onwards, and noted | :40:22. | :40:26. | |
the public school contingent has declined. Though still half, there | :40:26. | :40:29. | |
are, in fact, fewer Etonians now, and two-thirds didn't go to | :40:29. | :40:33. | |
Oxbridge. Most come from business or the law, the latter no different | :40:33. | :40:41. | |
in Labour ranks. A quarter of the Cabinet are women. Justine Greening, | :40:41. | :40:47. | |
a wouldn't call her posh. Baroness Warsi, my own boss. Patrick | :40:47. | :40:53. | |
McLoughlin, he is not posh. What is the definition of posh? An accent | :40:53. | :41:03. | |
:41:03. | :41:04. | ||
or red background? -- a background. And therein lies the problem. Posh | :41:04. | :41:08. | |
is one of those things that has no definition, but we think we know it | :41:08. | :41:12. | |
when we see it, and look at where people have come from. Me it is | :41:12. | :41:15. | |
true I went to private school, and I got expelled. I do not conform to | :41:15. | :41:18. | |
your typical Tory woman. But, I think life is about how you carry | :41:18. | :41:28. | |
:41:28. | :41:29. | ||
yourself, that is what matters. Nobody has accused me of being posh. | :41:29. | :41:32. | |
A useful metaphor for being out of touch, or in pure class war? The | :41:33. | :41:36. | |
label of posh is like all caricatures. A splash of truth | :41:36. | :41:40. | |
exaggerated for effect. It is more like Downton Abbey than it is | :41:40. | :41:47. | |
Parliament at the moment! We're joined now by Peter York, he's an | :41:47. | :41:57. | |
:41:57. | :41:58. | ||
author and broadcaster who co-wrote the Sloane Ranger Handbook. | :41:58. | :42:02. | |
Are you there for clay being you are a high-minded meritocracy in | :42:02. | :42:07. | |
the Tories, or a low-budget downturn Abbey? The reality is, in | :42:07. | :42:13. | |
1987 when we had a defeat, we lost a lot of MPs. Over successive | :42:13. | :42:19. | |
elections, more of us are from what Tony Blair used to call bog- | :42:19. | :42:22. | |
standard comprehensive education, half of the parliamentary party | :42:22. | :42:28. | |
comes from state schools. A lot of grammar schools. 84 of us come from | :42:28. | :42:37. | |
comprehensive schools. The number of public school Tory MPs rose in | :42:37. | :42:41. | |
this election. The political Quarterly studies over a longer | :42:41. | :42:46. | |
period. In the recent election, we had a rise of those public-school | :42:46. | :42:56. | |
MPs, as a percentage. Up to 33%. Equally, 46% is from state schools. | :42:56. | :43:02. | |
84 of us out of 304 are from competitive schools, many from | :43:02. | :43:08. | |
council estates, we have learned our living and come to Parliament. | :43:08. | :43:12. | |
We are reflective of the people out there we represent. Except, that is | :43:12. | :43:15. | |
not seen by the people who follow the government, the government does | :43:16. | :43:25. | |
:43:26. | :43:26. | ||
not represent that. The Conservative MPs in the top | :43:26. | :43:31. | |
positions, from the Prime Minister down, tend to be from public | :43:31. | :43:35. | |
schools and Oxbridge. For naturally, after the 2010 election, those | :43:35. | :43:39. | |
people sitting in opposition, speaking on behalf of the party, | :43:39. | :43:44. | |
have tended to be the Cabinet and ministers. We are seeing people | :43:44. | :43:47. | |
from the 2010 intake becoming ministers and making progress, | :43:47. | :43:55. | |
those people come from ordinary backgrounds. Look at the number of | :43:55. | :44:04. | |
seats we have gained. You are not chock-a-block with people who | :44:04. | :44:09. | |
represent the north of the country. We are looking to make more games | :44:09. | :44:14. | |
in the future. We need people from the local community who are | :44:14. | :44:17. | |
representative of their local community who can then know and | :44:17. | :44:25. | |
feel what it is like to be a hard- working family. Peter York, D U by | :44:25. | :44:31. | |
this decline? No, because you would expect it to happen over time. In | :44:31. | :44:39. | |
2013, the decline from the suit of Eden, Churchill Cabinet's, not | :44:39. | :44:44. | |
spectacular at all. What comes out of that survey is how | :44:45. | :44:50. | |
unrepresentative parliamentarians are as a whole. Across every way. | :44:50. | :44:55. | |
It is a graduate profession, nine out of 10. Fantastically | :44:55. | :45:01. | |
unrepresentative, whether that is good or bad. Second, that there is | :45:01. | :45:05. | |
and remains a real difference between the parties. If you look at | :45:05. | :45:10. | |
the number of privately educated people in the Tory and Labour | :45:10. | :45:16. | |
parties, it is very different. Much higher in the Tory Party. If you | :45:16. | :45:20. | |
were to read certain newspapers, you wouldn't think that was true | :45:20. | :45:26. | |
but it is very much the case, one bird, less than one-third the | :45:26. | :45:33. | |
numbers of independent school products in the Labour Party than | :45:33. | :45:43. | |
:45:43. | :45:47. | ||
I think it is a shame we are debating from the few that posh his | :45:47. | :45:52. | |
bat. Eton provides an incredibly good education for people -- that | :45:52. | :45:57. | |
posh is bad. I know quite a few parents who got their kids there on | :45:57. | :46:07. | |
:46:07. | :46:08. | ||
total scholarships. It turns out thinkers. A much scholarships at | :46:08. | :46:13. | |
Eton... I know somebody who deals with a lot of interns and says the | :46:13. | :46:18. | |
ones they get from Eton are two or three years ahead of the others. | :46:18. | :46:26. | |
Don't decry a good education. Don't hold an education again somebody. | :46:26. | :46:29. | |
Maybe halt against them what they have done after their education. | :46:29. | :46:34. | |
But I don't think anybody is arguing against a decent education. | :46:34. | :46:40. | |
Let me finish. All that a decent education is not a good criteria | :46:40. | :46:46. | |
for being in government. The argument is that that good | :46:47. | :46:50. | |
education has restricted to a small number of people and that therefore | :46:50. | :46:56. | |
restricts the number and the kind of people that get into government. | :46:56. | :47:00. | |
I do not want to discriminate against people because they come | :47:00. | :47:04. | |
from a state school or a private school. All I care about is whether | :47:04. | :47:08. | |
they are doing their job well. The problem the Conservatives have in | :47:09. | :47:14. | |
the Cabinet is that two-thirds of them, of all the ministers, are | :47:14. | :47:20. | |
from private school backgrounds. About 10% of from Eton. In the | :47:21. | :47:27. | |
general public 7% go to private schools. There is this via that | :47:28. | :47:33. | |
they are not in touch with what ordinary people think -- this fear. | :47:33. | :47:37. | |
Whether that is right or wrong, that is a perception that is out | :47:37. | :47:42. | |
there. If there is the long march through the tall institutions of | :47:42. | :47:48. | |
ordinary folk, as Alastair Burnet said, playing folk, which he meant | :47:48. | :47:53. | |
as a compliment, where is the perception of your party that it | :47:53. | :47:57. | |
has gone back to the Macmillan years? That it is full of posh | :47:57. | :48:07. | |
:48:07. | :48:09. | ||
people? That is the perception. Why? The biggest intake of 2010 | :48:09. | :48:14. | |
since the Second World War in 2010. Many people on the backbenches are | :48:14. | :48:21. | |
from comprehensive schools. They are still be coming to the for. | :48:21. | :48:26. | |
Gender, ethnicity, sexual orientation, it was more about that | :48:26. | :48:31. | |
and people of ordinary backgrounds. A lot of the women and non-white | :48:31. | :48:36. | |
Conservative MPs are pretty posh. Even one of the new black intake of | :48:37. | :48:43. | |
Tory MPs went to Eton. There is nothing roll about being educated. | :48:43. | :48:48. | |
But where is the huge intake from those who were not lucky enough to | :48:48. | :48:54. | |
get that education? There is nothing wrong about being educated. | :48:54. | :48:58. | |
More than a quarter of MPs entered parliament after being researchers | :48:58. | :49:03. | |
and walking for MPs and we have to get more people from ordinary lives, | :49:03. | :49:08. | |
not the Westminster bubble. understand this. I did a | :49:08. | :49:12. | |
documentary about it. But it is easier said than done because | :49:12. | :49:18. | |
politics is now so professional, and first advantage goes to the | :49:18. | :49:22. | |
first movers. Be in no doubt about that, we have the three main party | :49:22. | :49:27. | |
leaders, all of them started life basically as political researchers. | :49:27. | :49:35. | |
All of them, straight out of Oxbridge. Oxbridge teaches you how | :49:35. | :49:43. | |
to be a public adviser and the best comprehensive and grammar schools, | :49:43. | :49:47. | |
because there are different kinds, the kind of comprehensive that Ed | :49:47. | :49:52. | |
Miliband went to as opposed to other crimes. This is a problem for | :49:52. | :49:56. | |
Labour, the professionalisation of politics. They may be more diverse | :49:56. | :50:00. | |
in terms of social background than the Conservatives, and have become | :50:00. | :50:04. | |
more so now they are not dominated by the unions, though they have | :50:04. | :50:09. | |
lost a lot of working-class background people, but they also go | :50:09. | :50:13. | |
for professional people who come straight out of Oxbridge into | :50:13. | :50:20. | |
Westminster and never leave. Over- educated. How do you change that? | :50:20. | :50:24. | |
In the old days people went into trade unions, the army, they built | :50:24. | :50:30. | |
a business, from the City, and then they came into the Commons. One of | :50:30. | :50:38. | |
the thing that has changes... of them are councillors. Before | :50:38. | :50:42. | |
they become MPs. They have had a history of representing people, | :50:42. | :50:47. | |
they have had a history of looking after the work of an MP it and they | :50:47. | :50:51. | |
have got their hands dirty. Let's see what the next parliament looks | :50:51. | :50:54. | |
like. You can come back and see us then. | :50:54. | :50:58. | |
So David Beckham's off to Paris. There's been a bit of a kerfuffle | :50:58. | :51:04. | |
over a ball boy. Timbuktu made the front pages of a lot of newspapers. | :51:04. | :51:07. | |
And Prince Charles and his missus travelled by tube. Albeit only one | :51:07. | :51:15. | |
stop. The Bentley was we did Ed the other end! -- was waiting at the | :51:16. | :51:22. | |
other end! Let's have a look at the week in 60 seconds with Susana. | :51:22. | :51:31. | |
High-speed rail says two will go full speed ahead, but not until | :51:31. | :51:39. | |
2032. The PM went to a jury to talk terrorism but he said this is not | :51:39. | :51:44. | |
the next Iran. We do not look at this region and think the answer is | :51:44. | :51:51. | |
purely military. The noes to the left, 334. The Lib Dems joined | :51:51. | :51:56. | |
Labour in knocking constituency boundary changes on the head. | :51:56. | :52:00. | |
Should Scotland be an independent country? That is the question | :52:00. | :52:06. | |
decided, again. Traces of horses have been found in the Conservative | :52:06. | :52:15. | |
Party food chain! The MP has sent an opportunity and is secretly | :52:15. | :52:25. | |
:52:25. | :52:25. | ||
plotting to oust David Cameron. it time to say, see you, Dave? | :52:25. | :52:32. | |
David, you have your ear to the ground. Is this a real stalking | :52:32. | :52:37. | |
horse or a load of nonsense? doubt there were plots going on to | :52:37. | :52:41. | |
stand him up as a stalking horse. They wanted this group of MPs, they | :52:41. | :52:46. | |
looked at some of the more senior MPs who might want to take on David | :52:46. | :52:54. | |
Cameron, could not get anybody to do it. There is a group of people | :52:54. | :53:01. | |
chattering away in the background. Who did not get jobs? No. There is | :53:01. | :53:05. | |
disgruntlement. We were talking about the Cabinet being posh boys | :53:05. | :53:09. | |
because perhaps David is patronising and they feel they are | :53:09. | :53:16. | |
left out. But why do they want rid of Mr Cameron? Like you say, | :53:16. | :53:20. | |
disgruntlement. Originally it was all about Europe. Europe seems to | :53:20. | :53:25. | |
have, it down. When he said he would have a referendum, it took | :53:25. | :53:29. | |
the sting out of it. What is also interesting is the fact we found | :53:29. | :53:34. | |
out the name of Adam. We did not know it at first. We only got that | :53:34. | :53:41. | |
name on the Friday. That has killed him off now. The kiss of death. | :53:41. | :53:45. | |
he was a promising looking candidate. I am well aware that | :53:45. | :53:50. | |
David Cameron is not the most popular Tory leader ever on the | :53:50. | :53:54. | |
Tory backbenches. I understand that. But he then did give them the | :53:54. | :53:58. | |
biggest bit of red meat they had been looking for, the in that | :53:58. | :54:04. | |
referendum on Europe. What puzzled me was the timing. -- Pete in out | :54:04. | :54:09. | |
referendum. Exactly. Did he sends it coming and say, I would deliver | :54:09. | :54:15. | |
that speech on Europe? Because that has quelled the disgruntlement. | :54:15. | :54:20. | |
Safe until 2015, that is where they are saying. Are you in any doubt | :54:20. | :54:24. | |
that David Cameron will lead his party into the next election? | :54:24. | :54:31. | |
have no doubt about that, I think he will. Ideas of being knocked | :54:31. | :54:37. | |
down, a load of nonsense? These disgruntled people are now calling | :54:37. | :54:42. | |
for George Osborne to be removed. He might be an easier target. | :54:42. | :54:45. | |
are saying if he can't get growth moving, then perhaps they should | :54:45. | :54:51. | |
remove him. Ed Miliband says we can sense the moves are hurting us, we | :54:51. | :54:54. | |
just consents it is healing the economy at the moment and that is | :54:54. | :54:59. | |
what we need to see -- we just cannot sense. It is only two years | :54:59. | :55:05. | |
away. If we are agreed that as things stand at the moment, but two | :55:05. | :55:10. | |
leaders of the two biggest parties will be there on polling day, are | :55:10. | :55:14. | |
we also in no doubt that the next election will be fought on the old | :55:14. | :55:20. | |
boundaries? I think so. Boundary reform will not happen. No and that | :55:20. | :55:24. | |
would have helped the Tories a lot. David Cameron is riding quite high | :55:24. | :55:29. | |
at the moment with the EU speech and he has done well in Africa, I | :55:29. | :55:33. | |
think he must be very irritated by that. That would have meant 20 | :55:33. | :55:39. | |
seats for the Tories. And he needs those. The Poles or Labour were not | :55:39. | :55:42. | |
good at the weekend but they have got better since -- the opinion | :55:42. | :55:51. | |
polls for Labour. But when we say good, we need 10%. When I speak to | :55:51. | :55:55. | |
Labour people, I detect they wonder, shouldn't it be a lot bigger at the | :55:55. | :56:03. | |
moment? It should. Mid-term. They are not having a good time. People | :56:03. | :56:09. | |
are being hurt in so many ways. Taxes, fuel, benefits. They should | :56:09. | :56:14. | |
be much higher. I think the pressure is now one George Osborne. | :56:14. | :56:19. | |
The economy is what is causing the tour is the biggest worry. That | :56:19. | :56:24. | |
will win or lose them the next election -- causing the Tories. | :56:24. | :56:28. | |
I cannot get past the fact that he says we are all in it together and | :56:28. | :56:34. | |
very clearly, he is a toff, he is very rich, and it does not hurt him | :56:34. | :56:41. | |
up like it hurts us. And he is one of their only northern constituency | :56:41. | :56:46. | |
MPs. From the posh bit of Cheshire it. I think Mr Cameron will stick | :56:46. | :56:51. | |
with him, they are a double-act and they have none of the Gordon Brown- | :56:51. | :57:01. | |
Tony Blair tension. It just too. Luckily, I am far enough West! | :57:01. | :57:09. | |
- Hs2. I believe we need it and we have to have it. If you look at the | :57:09. | :57:13. | |
first phase from London to Birmingham, they have listened a | :57:13. | :57:17. | |
lot. They have created tunnels. They are trying to listen to people | :57:17. | :57:25. | |
and as long as they have that, it is good news. The Sun readers are | :57:26. | :57:30. | |
up for this, particularly in the north. It will credit 100,000 jobs | :57:30. | :57:38. | |
in those cities, good for business, cut travel times. We complained | :57:38. | :57:47. | |
about the... We take it for granted. As we do the M25. And the M40. My | :57:47. | :57:50. | |
favourite motorway. There's just time before we go to | :57:50. | :57:54. | |
find out the answer to our quiz. The question was: Sally Bercow has | :57:54. | :57:58. | |
told Twitter that she has had a tattoo. So what was it? Was it a | :57:58. | :58:01. | |
portcullis? John Bercow's coat of arms? The names of her children? Or | :58:01. | :58:06. | |
an anchor? So what's the correct answer? Names of her children? | :58:06. | :58:13. | |
dancer. She obviously read the Sun this morning. It was the shape of a | :58:13. | :58:22. | |
heart. Be it obviously means no more children. Three is enough! | :58:22. | :58:27. | |
That's all for today. Thanks to our guests. The one o'clock news is | :58:27. | :58:33. | |
starting over on BBC One now. I'll be back on BBC One on Sunday with | :58:33. | :58:43. | |
:58:43. | :58:44. | ||
the Sunday Politics. Our guest will be William Hague, the Foreign | :58:44. | :58:49. |