Browse content similar to 04/02/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Good afternoon, welcome to the Daily Politics. There has been a | :00:42. | :00:47. | |
dramatic turn of events in court this morning. Former Liberal | :00:47. | :00:49. | |
Democrat cabinet minister Chris Huhne has changed his plea to | :00:49. | :00:55. | |
guilty of perverting the course of justice and has resigned as an MP. | :00:55. | :00:59. | |
The first big parliamentary vote on gay marriages fast approaching. As | :00:59. | :01:04. | |
many as 180 Tory MPs look like they will refuse to follow David Cameron | :01:04. | :01:09. | |
and vote in favour. The Chancellor has been laying down the law to the | :01:09. | :01:12. | |
City. If the banks don't put a great big electric fence between | :01:12. | :01:17. | |
the bits that look after your savings and the bits that do the | :01:17. | :01:24. | |
risky stuff, he will step in and force them to split up. What does | :01:24. | :01:29. | |
Parliament have in common with 1970s rock legends Deep Purple, at | :01:29. | :01:35. | |
least according to the speaker? All that within the next hour. Our | :01:35. | :01:39. | |
guest of the day is the City analyst and financial blogger | :01:39. | :01:44. | |
Louise Cooper. Welcome. This morning's dramatic turn of events | :01:44. | :01:49. | |
at Southwark Crown Court first. Until now, former Energy Secretary | :01:49. | :01:52. | |
Chris Huhne was pleading not guilty to perverting the course of justice | :01:52. | :01:57. | |
in a case relating as to whether or not he got his former wife to take | :01:57. | :02:00. | |
points relating to a speeding offence. Within an hour, that | :02:00. | :02:06. | |
changed. I have pleaded guilty today. I am unable to say more | :02:06. | :02:12. | |
while there is an outstanding trial. Having taken responsibility for | :02:12. | :02:16. | |
something which happened 10 years ago, the only proper course of | :02:16. | :02:20. | |
action for me is to resign my Eastleigh seat in Parliament, which | :02:20. | :02:26. | |
I will do very shortly. That is all I can say today. | :02:26. | :02:30. | |
Chris Huhne speaking outside court not very long ago. James Landale, | :02:30. | :02:36. | |
our deputy political editor, joins me. Asda's legal journalist and | :02:36. | :02:38. | |
political commentator Joshua Rozenberg. That is a dramatic turn | :02:38. | :02:43. | |
of events. Only one week ago Chris Huhne was pleading not guilty, now | :02:43. | :02:49. | |
he is not. What a difference a week makes! He has been considering his | :02:49. | :02:53. | |
position and speaking to his lawyers. They will have told him | :02:53. | :02:57. | |
that if he pleads guilty before Ray Durie is sworn in he will get a | :02:57. | :03:01. | |
shorter sentence than if he pleaded not guilty and was convicted. He | :03:01. | :03:06. | |
thinks pleading guilty is the right thing to do and has been released | :03:06. | :03:09. | |
on unconditional bail pending the trial of his former wife Vicky | :03:09. | :03:17. | |
Pryce. How does the trial of his former wife affect the timing of | :03:17. | :03:22. | |
the sentence? He will not be sentenced until the trial of Vicky | :03:22. | :03:27. | |
Pryce is over. That is the priority for the courts. Once that trial | :03:27. | :03:34. | |
ends, Chris Huhne will be brought back. The judge may want to report. | :03:34. | :03:42. | |
He will then sentence Chris Huhne for the FMC has admitted. | :03:42. | :03:47. | |
Perverting the course of justice is a serious crime? Very serious, the | :03:47. | :03:50. | |
penalty is a limited, it could be as much as life imprisonment. I | :03:50. | :03:54. | |
would not say it would be in this case, but it will be imprisonment, | :03:54. | :04:00. | |
the judge has hinted at that. He told Mr Hoon, be under no illusions | :04:01. | :04:04. | |
about the sentence you will receive. I think the going rate is anything | :04:04. | :04:10. | |
from 12 months downwards. In similar cases sentences of 12 | :04:10. | :04:15. | |
months have been passed, reduced to six months, four months. Can you | :04:15. | :04:20. | |
remind us are broadly of the events surrounding the case? The question | :04:21. | :04:27. | |
was who was driving the family car at the time that it was spotted by | :04:27. | :04:33. | |
a speed camera. The allegation is that Chris Huhne was driving and he | :04:33. | :04:38. | |
got his then wife to take the points, to say that she was driving. | :04:38. | :04:44. | |
She has said boot she is denying the charge of perverting the course | :04:44. | :04:49. | |
of justice and says she was coerced by him and has put forward the very | :04:50. | :04:54. | |
unusual defence of marital coercion. James Landale, he had to resign his | :04:54. | :04:59. | |
seat, even if there was a technical justification? It was not an | :05:00. | :05:06. | |
option? But for 511 votes, Chris Huhne could be Deputy Prime | :05:06. | :05:13. | |
Minister today. He was one of the Lib Dems' big beasts. They don't | :05:13. | :05:18. | |
have a -- don't have many of them. His career is now over. He realised | :05:18. | :05:23. | |
he had no choice but to go. You can get into technical arguments about | :05:23. | :05:28. | |
parliamentary rules, you can't be a sitting MP and sentenced to prison | :05:28. | :05:31. | |
for more than a year. I think he thought that regardless of those | :05:31. | :05:37. | |
rules, he had to go. The political significance is huge. We will have | :05:37. | :05:40. | |
the first by-election of this parliament where the coalition | :05:40. | :05:45. | |
parties, the Lib Dems and the Conservatives, go head-to-head in | :05:45. | :05:49. | |
Chris Huhne's constituency. The majority is just over 3000, it is | :05:49. | :05:52. | |
eminently winnable for the Conservatives and already on their | :05:52. | :05:58. | |
target list. I think many Conservatives will see this as an | :05:58. | :06:01. | |
opportunity to throw the kitchen sink at the by-election. If they | :06:01. | :06:06. | |
win it it would be a good way for David Cameron to silence people who | :06:06. | :06:10. | |
are doubting his leadership. Many Conservatives at the moment feel | :06:10. | :06:13. | |
very angry and upset with the Lib Dems because of their refusal to | :06:13. | :06:19. | |
support the boundary changes. They might see this as an opportunity to | :06:19. | :06:23. | |
get their own back. What about the loss to the Liberal Democrats? Has | :06:23. | :06:28. | |
there been reaction from Nick Clegg? Nothing officially at. We | :06:28. | :06:31. | |
expected to make a statement, at some point he has to say something | :06:31. | :06:36. | |
about this. Chris Huhne, the Lib Dems wanted him back. And he said | :06:36. | :06:42. | |
so, Nick Clegg? He used the phrase, at the top table, something like | :06:42. | :06:46. | |
that. One Lib Dem said to me that Chris Huhne is a carnivore in a | :06:46. | :06:50. | |
party of herbivores. He took the fight to the Conservatives, he | :06:50. | :06:56. | |
would argue the toss with David Cameron over the Cabinet table, but | :06:56. | :07:00. | |
Conservatives' treatment of Nick Clegg and the Lib Dems about AV. | :07:00. | :07:04. | |
That kind of big beast, parties don't have many. The Lib Dems had | :07:05. | :07:11. | |
very few and now one is gone. aid to Nick Clegg say he is shocked | :07:11. | :07:16. | |
and saddened by Christian's conduct. He telephoned Nick Clegg last night | :07:16. | :07:19. | |
to tell them of the decision to plead guilty. Even though they were | :07:19. | :07:23. | |
up against each other in the leadership contest, Chris Huhne | :07:23. | :07:30. | |
only just lost. It will also be a personal loss to Nick Clegg? These | :07:30. | :07:34. | |
guys were colleagues together in the European Parliament. They have | :07:34. | :07:37. | |
been knocking around as young friends and rivals within the Lib | :07:37. | :07:41. | |
Dems for many years. And to see a friend of yours like this go down | :07:41. | :07:45. | |
like this is something that I think he will clearly feel very | :07:45. | :07:50. | |
personally. But the challenge for Nick Clegg now is to work out what | :07:50. | :07:53. | |
strategy you'll deployed to try to protect his party politically, | :07:53. | :07:58. | |
because this will be a huge blow -- what strategy he will deploy. If | :07:58. | :08:02. | |
anybody wants to denigrate the lake -- the Lib Dems, they will mention | :08:03. | :08:05. | |
Chris Huhne and they hit will be made. | :08:05. | :08:09. | |
MPs will debate the Marriage Bill and House of Commons tomorrow. It | :08:09. | :08:13. | |
it becomes law, gay people will be able to get married for the first | :08:13. | :08:16. | |
time in England and Wales. The law would allow for religious same-sex | :08:16. | :08:21. | |
weddings as well as civil, but only if religious organisations opt in. | :08:21. | :08:25. | |
The Church of England and shirts at -- Church of Wales will | :08:25. | :08:29. | |
specifically be prevented from doing so. The Government insists | :08:29. | :08:32. | |
nobody will be forced to offer gay weddings if they don't want to, but | :08:32. | :08:38. | |
critics say those safeguards are not enough. And many critics are | :08:38. | :08:41. | |
within the Conservative Party. David Cameron has invited his MPs | :08:41. | :08:45. | |
to support his plans for gay marriage but it looks increasingly | :08:45. | :08:48. | |
that many want to leave them standing at the altar. | :08:48. | :08:52. | |
Bit is estimated that as many as 120 Conservative MPs will vote | :08:52. | :08:57. | |
against the Bill, and a further 60 could abstain. Less than half are | :08:57. | :09:02. | |
expected to vote in favour of. Yesterday 20 Conservative | :09:02. | :09:06. | |
constituency association chairman delivered a letter to Downing | :09:06. | :09:10. | |
Street warning of significant damage to the Conservative Party if | :09:10. | :09:14. | |
the Bill is enacted. But with the vast majority of Labour and Lib Dem | :09:14. | :09:18. | |
MPs set to back the plan, it should not have any problem in getting | :09:18. | :09:22. | |
through. The Prime Minister thinks most of the public on his side. | :09:22. | :09:27. | |
Polling figures vary but most have found Dave -- found a majority in | :09:27. | :09:33. | |
favour of same-sex marriage. One recent poll suggested 55% in favour | :09:33. | :09:38. | |
and 36% against. But a poll published at the weekend suggested | :09:38. | :09:43. | |
that 20% of people who voted Conservative would not do so again | :09:43. | :09:49. | |
in 2015 if the Government pushes ahead. Geoffrey Vero, the chairman | :09:49. | :09:51. | |
of the Surrey Heath Conservative constituency Association, one of | :09:51. | :09:56. | |
the people who delivered that letter to Downing Street, and a | :09:56. | :10:00. | |
Conservative MP who backed the plans, both joined me now. What | :10:00. | :10:04. | |
damage is being inflicted on the Conservative Party, in your mind, | :10:04. | :10:08. | |
because of plans to legalise gay marriage? It is difficult to | :10:08. | :10:12. | |
totally quantify but we know we have had a very considerable number | :10:12. | :10:17. | |
of e-mails and litres -- letters into the constituency office, and | :10:17. | :10:26. | |
directly to Michael Gove, who is our MP. He disagrees with you? | :10:26. | :10:30. | |
are fundamentally opposed, we have agreed to disagree. Everybody is | :10:31. | :10:34. | |
entitled to their own views, I would like to make it very clear, | :10:34. | :10:39. | |
but our fear is we are having resignations, activists saying, I'm | :10:39. | :10:42. | |
terribly sorry, but next time around I won't be sending out the | :10:42. | :10:48. | |
leaflets, I won't do stuffing or mocking up. It is very important, | :10:48. | :10:53. | |
in order to get selected at a general election, you need to get | :10:53. | :10:57. | |
the vote out. That is the risk David Cameron is taking. Gavin | :10:57. | :11:02. | |
Barwell, is it worth the risk? a Conservative because I believe | :11:02. | :11:06. | |
marriage is hugely important in our society. Providing there is | :11:06. | :11:09. | |
protection for religious groups who do not want to conduct same-sex | :11:09. | :11:13. | |
marriages, I would like to see the maximum of people be able to | :11:13. | :11:17. | |
benefit from this institution and exchange the same virus that my | :11:17. | :11:23. | |
wife and I have. The list that you just stated shows that it is | :11:23. | :11:30. | |
unlikely to have significance one way or the other, but it is about | :11:30. | :11:35. | |
the principle, not the boats. polls indicate that the majority of | :11:35. | :11:41. | |
the public are in favour of. And a majority of Conservative supporters. | :11:41. | :11:45. | |
So what do you say about the claims made by Geoffrey Vero but you will | :11:45. | :11:52. | |
bleed support in the party, grass roots will desert you? That is not | :11:52. | :11:56. | |
my experience in my constituency. Three vote issues are difficult, | :11:56. | :11:59. | |
they divide parties, there will be members of the party who have a | :11:59. | :12:04. | |
different opinion, and I respect that opinion, but if you look at | :12:04. | :12:07. | |
the wider picture in terms of all the things the Government is doing, | :12:07. | :12:10. | |
you will not see dedicated and committed Conservatives giving up | :12:10. | :12:15. | |
altogether. Louise, how does it look to you when you hear people | :12:15. | :12:19. | |
like Geoffrey Vero saying that it is turning off the grass roots of | :12:19. | :12:23. | |
the party? I think the vocal minority of grassroots Tories, out | :12:23. | :12:29. | |
shouting, as always happens, the majority are too busy paying their | :12:29. | :12:33. | |
mortgages, paying their bills, coping with financial crisis and | :12:33. | :12:36. | |
unemployment and they look at Westminster and say, what is going | :12:36. | :12:42. | |
on? You people are out of date and out of touch. Especially some of | :12:42. | :12:47. | |
these grass roots, church-going, playing golf on Sunday take people. | :12:47. | :12:52. | |
Out of touch with what modern Britain looks like. I'm afraid this | :12:52. | :12:56. | |
is the perception from the outside looking into this issue which is | :12:56. | :13:00. | |
convulsing the party. That will be more damaging than the activists | :13:00. | :13:08. | |
you might lose? This is a view expressed by people... This is a | :13:08. | :13:14. | |
complex issue. We are trying to overturn 5000 years of views on | :13:14. | :13:18. | |
perceived civilisation. We are a progressive country, we are moving | :13:18. | :13:24. | |
forward, and the presentation to the letter -- of the letter to | :13:24. | :13:28. | |
David Cameron was saying just slow the process down. We don't believe | :13:28. | :13:32. | |
it is in the manifesto or mandate within his government, we would | :13:32. | :13:37. | |
like it debated long and hard. The statistics are all over the place. | :13:37. | :13:44. | |
We have seen completely different pollings on this. I think it is | :13:44. | :13:47. | |
very important to respect some of the older people. We had a chat | :13:47. | :13:52. | |
earlier, this is a generational issue. A lot of people, | :13:52. | :13:57. | |
progressively over the age of 45 and 50, feel this is an attack on | :13:57. | :14:00. | |
many of their core beliefs and I think we need to have a much more | :14:00. | :14:05. | |
rational discussion than perhaps being dismissed as old fogies. | :14:05. | :14:09. | |
is an important point. If you look at the polling, it is perhaps not | :14:09. | :14:13. | |
surprising that older people and people of these are more concerned. | :14:13. | :14:17. | |
Just to dismiss those objections and say you are out of touch, you | :14:17. | :14:22. | |
don't get it, is not right. You have to understand their concerns. | :14:22. | :14:26. | |
But you will not change! But the legislation addresses some of the | :14:26. | :14:30. | |
concerns. Many of my constituents worried that their church, mosque | :14:30. | :14:33. | |
or synagogue would have to marry people they don't think they should. | :14:34. | :14:38. | |
We need to convince them that the safeguards are there. We either | :14:38. | :14:43. | |
live in unequal society or we don't. We either live in a society that | :14:43. | :14:47. | |
discriminates against people, or we don't. Yes, but it is the way we | :14:47. | :14:50. | |
conduct the debate, we cannot tell people they are out of touch and | :14:50. | :14:54. | |
dismiss their objections. The boat will happen on Tuesday and is most | :14:54. | :14:59. | |
likely to go through. It will do, but it is only one process. It has | :14:59. | :15:04. | |
to go to the Lords and then come back. You have to go through the | :15:04. | :15:08. | |
drafting of the bill. I think it is poorly drafted at present. We need | :15:08. | :15:17. | |
to consult more. It is not just an issue of equality. Why not? It has | :15:17. | :15:22. | |
complexities as regards teachers, children and everything else. | :15:22. | :15:26. | |
Equality seems to be the 53rd card in the pack, the joker which trumps | :15:26. | :15:30. | |
any arguments you have. If you don't like something, play the | :15:30. | :15:35. | |
quality card. It is more complex. Can you give us some examples of | :15:35. | :15:39. | |
some of the bad drafting of things you don't like? The drafting makes | :15:39. | :15:44. | |
a nonsense -- traditionally in marriage, the grounds for divorce | :15:44. | :15:48. | |
are none consummation and adultery. You can't have that in same-sex | :15:48. | :15:54. | |
marriage. It comes across as very bizarre. The new Archbishop of | :15:54. | :15:57. | |
Canterbury is seriously questioning what David Cameron is doing. The | :15:57. | :16:02. | |
Pope is totally against this. It is a complex issue and you are playing | :16:02. | :16:07. | |
with core beliefs in humanity. It is not purely an equality issue. | :16:07. | :16:09. | |
But I understand there is another point of view and we have to | :16:09. | :16:19. | |
:16:19. | :16:30. | ||
There is concern that all teachers have a responsibility under the | :16:30. | :16:34. | |
Education Act to teach marriage. They will be required to teach | :16:34. | :16:39. | |
same-sex marriage similar to normal marriage. I know Michael Gove is | :16:39. | :16:44. | |
keen to try to give as many protections in at as possible but | :16:44. | :16:49. | |
there is arrest that teachers, who fundamentally disagree, may well | :16:49. | :16:53. | |
find they are isolated and may well lose their jobs because of | :16:53. | :17:00. | |
subsequent legislation overturning it in the European courts. | :17:00. | :17:04. | |
Listening to Geoffrey, he represents a section of the | :17:04. | :17:09. | |
Parliamentary Party. To what extent will this be a blow to the | :17:09. | :17:15. | |
authority of David Cameron when around 180 MPs vote against? I hope | :17:15. | :17:21. | |
more Conservative MPs supported than vote against it. I would like | :17:21. | :17:26. | |
every Conservative MP to packet. 10 years ago, you would not see | :17:26. | :17:32. | |
Conservatives proposing this type of thing. -- to back it. I hope | :17:32. | :17:38. | |
that as many of my colleagues as possible will support the proposal. | :17:38. | :17:45. | |
We know there could be about 150, 180 MPs who will vote against. | :17:45. | :17:49. | |
would be very surprised if the numbers voting against are as high. | :17:49. | :17:54. | |
I will not speculate on the figures. I hope more Conservative MPs would | :17:54. | :18:00. | |
vote for it than Against. Is it a matter of strategy? Is it the | :18:00. | :18:06. | |
climax to the detoxification of the Tory brand? As the strategy, I was | :18:06. | :18:11. | |
so just it is not working as he intended. It is about promoting | :18:11. | :18:16. | |
marriage. I hope the Government will quickly bring forward | :18:16. | :18:20. | |
proposals in relations to tax allowances. I believe marriage is a | :18:20. | :18:24. | |
key pillar of the society. Provided there is protection for faith | :18:24. | :18:28. | |
groups who do not want to conduct these marriages, I want to see as | :18:28. | :18:32. | |
many people as possible benefit. That is why legislation is a good | :18:33. | :18:38. | |
thing. I do not want the Government to tummy if I am married or not. | :18:38. | :18:42. | |
Promoting it by these policies, I think maybe I am more of a Liberal. | :18:43. | :18:47. | |
I want to be a were to run my life how a one to arrive children to be | :18:47. | :18:53. | |
educated in maths. Not whether marriage is a good thing for gay | :18:53. | :19:00. | |
people or otherwise. You are adding to some extent to the perception | :19:00. | :19:06. | |
which will only harm the prospects of the Tory Party. It is not an | :19:06. | :19:09. | |
issue we brought to the table. David Cameron brought it to the | :19:09. | :19:14. | |
table. There was no indication in his manifesto or mandate that he | :19:14. | :19:18. | |
was going to bring into the table during his current government. I | :19:18. | :19:22. | |
think he could handle the issue very much more carefully than he | :19:23. | :19:28. | |
has done. He could have rolled the pitch, or laid the ground, during | :19:28. | :19:31. | |
his current Parliament so that when you get to the next Parliament, | :19:31. | :19:36. | |
they could have been a vote. Let the people decide. I would prefer | :19:36. | :19:40. | |
there to be a referendum. If the majority of people and country are | :19:40. | :19:46. | |
in favour of it, so be it and we accept that. We do not believe that | :19:46. | :19:51. | |
David has a mandate for it in the current Parliament. Some people | :19:52. | :19:57. | |
will say to their MPs, Conservative MPs, but they could look homophobic. | :19:57. | :20:06. | |
What you say to that? That is very sad. -- what do you say to that? I | :20:06. | :20:11. | |
have been very keen that the debate be conducted so that everyone has | :20:11. | :20:17. | |
an equal view. Many of us have been criticised, prejudiced or bigoted. | :20:17. | :20:23. | |
It is not about homophobia. It is about the institution of marriage. | :20:23. | :20:28. | |
For many people, it is between a man and a woman. Thank you both for | :20:28. | :20:33. | |
joining us. If someone lends you money, they have got a bit of a | :20:33. | :20:36. | |
hold over you, and that applies as much to governments as it does to | :20:36. | :20:39. | |
you and me. In the case of countries, they raise loans through | :20:39. | :20:42. | |
bonds - a kind of IOU to investors which they promise eventually to | :20:42. | :20:45. | |
repay - with interest, of course. As a consequence, governments of | :20:45. | :20:48. | |
all stripes are very keen to keep the bond markets and the ratings | :20:48. | :20:53. | |
agencies, who opine on a nation's creditworthiness, sweet. But has | :20:53. | :20:55. | |
the current Chancellor, George Osborne, gone too far in his | :20:55. | :21:05. | |
:21:05. | :21:15. | ||
The trading floor of rubber bank in the City of London. Not as busy as | :21:15. | :21:21. | |
they were in the boom but still powerful in the past. Men and women | :21:21. | :21:24. | |
on trading floors like this throughout the world still have a | :21:24. | :21:32. | |
huge impact on our Government's fiscal policy. That matters to | :21:32. | :21:36. | |
every one of us. That is because some of them trade on the | :21:36. | :21:40. | |
international bond market. That is massively important to the | :21:40. | :21:44. | |
Government's handling of the economy. It has become powerful | :21:44. | :21:49. | |
because of its huge size. Governments have deficits and these | :21:49. | :21:54. | |
accumulate every year into a big debt, which needs to be financed. | :21:54. | :21:58. | |
Investors buy the bonds. Because the market has become so huge, | :21:58. | :22:03. | |
investors have a lot of power. reason British government bonds are | :22:03. | :22:08. | |
so attractive is our AAA credit rating. George Osborne has tried | :22:08. | :22:12. | |
super hard to make sure it stays that way but has it worked? Many | :22:12. | :22:18. | |
people think that 20 their team will be the year that the UK loses | :22:18. | :22:25. | |
its AAA rating. -- 2013. The Government has had to admitted his | :22:25. | :22:29. | |
off-track at hitting a reduction targets. They are not as worried | :22:29. | :22:37. | |
had it happened -- as had it happened three, four, and five | :22:37. | :22:42. | |
years ago. Other countries have also lost theirs. Investors have | :22:42. | :22:51. | |
become used to renew normal. Perhaps they have to become used to | :22:51. | :22:57. | |
ratings being a bit lower. should not pay any attention to | :22:57. | :23:00. | |
credit ratings agencies was that they have been completely | :23:00. | :23:05. | |
discredited by their role in the financial crisis. It does not | :23:05. | :23:13. | |
matter Warnock what they say about UK government debt or not. -- does | :23:13. | :23:18. | |
not matter at all. It was unfortunate that government policy | :23:18. | :23:24. | |
was dictated by credit agencies. It was a big mistake. It led us to | :23:24. | :23:28. | |
tighten fiscal policy too quickly. The negative impact has been quite | :23:28. | :23:33. | |
significant, as we know. Some MPs believe that if you do borrowed, | :23:33. | :23:40. | |
you have to play by the Rules of the lenders. No one will like the | :23:40. | :23:46. | |
credit agencies determining what democratic governments do. If | :23:46. | :23:48. | |
democratic governments put themselves in the positions of | :23:48. | :23:52. | |
borrowing at these fantastic rates, they will be subjected to the | :23:52. | :23:57. | |
commercial decisions of rating agencies and markets. Can the | :23:57. | :24:01. | |
Government escape the grip of the bond market and the ratings | :24:01. | :24:09. | |
agencies? The Government should set out a long-term fiscal strategy. | :24:09. | :24:11. | |
That should involve fiscal tightening - cutting spending and | :24:11. | :24:14. | |
raising taxes over the medium to long term. We do need to balance | :24:14. | :24:18. | |
the books. If we do that, the bond markets will take care of | :24:18. | :24:22. | |
themselves and that will give us the freedom to run more sensible | :24:22. | :24:27. | |
policies in the short term so we can get growth back into the | :24:27. | :24:30. | |
economy. These guys may look too nice to be masters of the universe | :24:30. | :24:34. | |
but for as long as governments borrowed, people like them will | :24:34. | :24:38. | |
always have a big say in what they do. Joining me now is Brooks | :24:39. | :24:41. | |
Newmark. He is a Conservative member of the Treasury Select | :24:41. | :24:44. | |
Committee and used to be a senior partner at a private equity firm, | :24:44. | :24:47. | |
Chris Leslie, the Shadow Financial Secretary. Louise Cooper, a city | :24:47. | :24:54. | |
analyst, is still with us. How humiliating would it be for the UK | :24:54. | :24:59. | |
to lose its AAA credit rating? would have said before the US had | :24:59. | :25:03. | |
its downgrading and France had its downgrading, I certainly would have | :25:03. | :25:08. | |
been very concerned. The evidence is at least that it actually has | :25:08. | :25:12. | |
not had too much of an impact on the rate that people actually | :25:12. | :25:16. | |
willing to pay for bonds. Psychologically it is important but | :25:16. | :25:22. | |
the reality is, if it happens, I do not think there will be much of an | :25:22. | :25:26. | |
impact. George Osborne exaggerated hugely the importance of keeping | :25:26. | :25:33. | |
our AAA credit rating or the way from 2010 up until now? I do not | :25:33. | :25:43. | |
:25:43. | :25:43. | ||
think he exaggerated. I am St Ewe, the reality years... The evidence | :25:43. | :25:49. | |
is it does not look like there will be much of an impact from investors. | :25:49. | :25:55. | |
Politically and psychologically, it is important. The markets, in | :25:55. | :26:01. | |
reality, I suspect, probably would not punish us as much as, for | :26:01. | :26:06. | |
example, when we had the emergency budget. That there would have | :26:06. | :26:12. | |
impacted us. Will the markets be kind to the UK if it loses its AAA | :26:12. | :26:17. | |
credit rating? Because of quantitative easing, effectively | :26:17. | :26:21. | |
because now the Government owns a third of its own debt, it is kind | :26:21. | :26:26. | |
of irrelevant. We are seeing the Bank of England distorting the gilt | :26:26. | :26:31. | |
market because it is buying so many gilts. That is what is pulling the | :26:31. | :26:35. | |
interest rate down on British government debt. That is what is | :26:35. | :26:39. | |
going on. That is not an indicator that the international investors | :26:39. | :26:45. | |
are that convinced of the UK. By the way, gilt yields have actually | :26:45. | :26:52. | |
been rising recently. As is happening in the US and Japan and | :26:52. | :26:55. | |
elsewhere. George Osborne made such a big deal of keeping debt interest | :26:55. | :26:59. | |
payments down. We're hearing, to some extent, interest payments will | :26:59. | :27:05. | |
go up. It has only gone up marginally. The point I am making | :27:05. | :27:09. | |
is, it is the actions of the Bank of England - distorting the gilt | :27:09. | :27:16. | |
market - it is not a reality saying, the UK is a great and safe place. | :27:16. | :27:20. | |
It is the Bank of England. This is an important point. For several | :27:20. | :27:25. | |
years, the Chancellor has been saying his particular path of | :27:25. | :27:29. | |
fiscal policy, the cuts agenda and austerity was the be-all and end- | :27:29. | :27:34. | |
all when it came to the bond markets. I think that Louise is | :27:34. | :27:38. | |
right. There are many more factors that come into play, particularly | :27:38. | :27:42. | |
when the Bank of England get the printing presses going and are | :27:42. | :27:46. | |
buying and purchasing so much of the nation's debts. Independent | :27:46. | :27:53. | |
monetary policy is key to the driving force. Had it not happened, | :27:53. | :27:58. | |
there would be a different set of drivers. The notion that George | :27:58. | :28:03. | |
Osborne is saying, it does not matter what is going on with the | :28:03. | :28:10. | |
AAA. It is important. Unilever won a general election claiming that it | :28:10. | :28:15. | |
was all about defending the AAA rating and credibility and all | :28:15. | :28:19. | |
these things. We never lost back under the last Labour government. | :28:19. | :28:24. | |
Would we have lost it had the spending plan continued? Would we | :28:24. | :28:28. | |
have lost it before quantitative easing and what they have judged | :28:28. | :28:34. | |
that Britain was a dodgy place? Lots of factors come into this. | :28:34. | :28:40. | |
Fiscal policy, monetary policy and also a growth. A lot of traders in | :28:40. | :28:44. | |
the City want now to seek economies that have an engine to generate | :28:44. | :28:48. | |
revenues so they can get back into balance. The deficit is going in | :28:48. | :28:58. | |
:28:58. | :28:58. | ||
the wrong direction. It was up 10% on there -- at the beginning of the | :28:58. | :29:04. | |
year. The deficit is down by a quarter and is continuing to go | :29:04. | :29:08. | |
down. We will talk about the deficit and the debt. The Prime | :29:08. | :29:12. | |
Minister got himself into a little bit of trouble about paying down | :29:12. | :29:17. | |
the debt. Also the issue about whether the economy is distorted. | :29:17. | :29:23. | |
Are investors looking for evidence of gross? They are. The problem | :29:23. | :29:28. | |
with quantitative easing - buying gilts - it mask the underlying | :29:28. | :29:34. | |
problems. We call investors in gilts and double-deck that bond | :29:34. | :29:38. | |
vigilantes. Why do we say that? They hold governments and | :29:38. | :29:43. | |
politicians to account. They go through with a fine-tooth comb the | :29:43. | :29:47. | |
economic data - the statistics coming out of government finance. | :29:47. | :29:52. | |
As soon as they look horrid, they stop lending, or they demand a high | :29:52. | :29:57. | |
interest rate. We hate those investors. Actually, in the capital | :29:58. | :30:03. | |
world we live in, they occupy a very important place by holding | :30:03. | :30:06. | |
governments and their financial statistics to account. | :30:06. | :30:09. | |
Unfortunately, the problem with quantitative easing and what the | :30:09. | :30:14. | |
Bank of England is doing, the power of those bond vigilantes has gone. | :30:14. | :30:18. | |
It is about how much money the Bank of England will spend buying gilts. | :30:19. | :30:22. | |
That takes pressure of the politicians to take the painful | :30:22. | :30:32. | |
:30:32. | :30:37. | ||
decisions that need making. I am not a big proponent of Q E. | :30:37. | :30:44. | |
The first �200 billion was fined...! After the first �200 | :30:44. | :30:49. | |
billion, we should have stopped, we need to focus on issues such as | :30:49. | :30:54. | |
building confidence, growth and so on. The real reality on the ground, | :30:54. | :30:59. | |
as Chris knows, we have more men and women in work than ever before. | :30:59. | :31:05. | |
GDP figures are important but we know it is as much of a Mystic Meg | :31:05. | :31:09. | |
in terms of actually understanding the GDP figures. The real figures | :31:09. | :31:13. | |
on the ground for ordinary people is whether they have a job. More | :31:13. | :31:16. | |
men and women today have a job than ever before, that is what is | :31:16. | :31:22. | |
important. Let's come to the debt and deficit figures, these two | :31:22. | :31:26. | |
gentlemen arguing about whether the deficit last year has gone down, | :31:26. | :31:32. | |
and debt, which is rising. I'm a simple girl, I like the absolute | :31:32. | :31:36. | |
debt figures. Absolute debt, the amount the UK is indebted in | :31:36. | :31:41. | |
entirety, has almost doubled in the last four years, and it would | :31:41. | :31:50. | |
increase again. It has gone up from �811 billion to 1.1 trillion pounds | :31:50. | :31:56. | |
while this government has been in power. It depends how you cut the | :31:56. | :32:06. | |
figures. You are nodding... Yes, because Economics 101, which the | :32:06. | :32:10. | |
Prime Minister was trying to teach the shadow Treasury Minister, debt | :32:10. | :32:17. | |
is spending more than a you have coming in. He was told off! Just a | :32:17. | :32:22. | |
second. Well you have a deficit you are adding to your debt. This last | :32:23. | :32:26. | |
has a huge deficit. He would have continued spending more money than | :32:26. | :32:31. | |
we have, the debt figures would be much late -- much larger under | :32:31. | :32:37. | |
Labour. We have had a big speech from George Osborne, slightly | :32:37. | :32:41. | |
overshadowed by what has happened with Chris Huhne. Louise Cooper, if | :32:41. | :32:46. | |
a bank fails, if the investment arm of the bank fails, does that mean | :32:46. | :32:53. | |
it will not drag its high-street be to -- its high-street titbit with | :32:53. | :33:00. | |
it? He wants to ring-fence the supposedly safe banking from, and I | :33:00. | :33:05. | |
hate this world -- I hate this word, the casino banking. How much | :33:05. | :33:09. | |
outstanding mortgage debt do you think we have in this country? | :33:09. | :33:14. | |
Anyone want to guess? 1.2 trillion pounds is the outstanding mortgage | :33:14. | :33:19. | |
debt. It is more than the UK government debt. Any kind of | :33:19. | :33:25. | |
property price fall further from here, any economic pain, you start | :33:25. | :33:29. | |
to get bad loans on that mortgage debt. The losses are humongous. I | :33:29. | :33:34. | |
don't get that retail banking is saved and investment banking is | :33:34. | :33:38. | |
dangerous, and investment banks should be allowed to go to the wall. | :33:38. | :33:42. | |
If you look at the balance sheets of the big banks today and you mark | :33:42. | :33:47. | |
the assets on their portfolios, not just this country but particularly | :33:47. | :33:51. | |
France or Spain, they are completely under water. Certainly | :33:51. | :33:55. | |
the Spanish banks and big French banks. Our banks are getting their | :33:55. | :33:59. | |
house in order, which is why ordinary people are finding it hard | :33:59. | :34:05. | |
to get loans. The ring-fencing will not work, then. In the terms set | :34:05. | :34:10. | |
out by George Osborne, this will mean we won't have a similar style | :34:10. | :34:14. | |
crash that we experienced in 2008, that investment arms of banks will | :34:14. | :34:21. | |
not be able to drag down retailers? The jury is still out on ring- | :34:21. | :34:26. | |
fencing. This is one way of doing it, don't necessarily split them | :34:26. | :34:31. | |
but keep in reserve, and this is crucial, just in case, the power to | :34:31. | :34:36. | |
have full separation. He said, I will do the Reserve Bank by bank by | :34:36. | :34:40. | |
bank, but what we need in reserve is a power to have that separation | :34:40. | :34:45. | |
across the boards between retail and investment banking. If that is | :34:45. | :34:50. | |
not there, this is a lawyer's charter for banks to contest one by | :34:50. | :34:55. | |
one by one. If you're going to electrify it, and electrify it | :34:55. | :34:59. | |
properly. He has only partially been forced to climb down, | :35:00. | :35:05. | |
because... I want to deal with the toxic issue. The toxic issue of the | :35:05. | :35:10. | |
banking, lots of it was, unfortunately, derivatives trading. | :35:10. | :35:16. | |
Lots of the derivatives were being traded 200-1 in terms of the assets | :35:16. | :35:21. | |
underlying those derivatives to what the market was trading. That | :35:21. | :35:27. | |
is the dangerous part, wrapping up mortgages is a separate issue, it | :35:27. | :35:32. | |
is an issue, but I think what we need there is more transparency in | :35:32. | :35:36. | |
those pools of mortgages being wrapped up, so we understand the | :35:36. | :35:40. | |
assets underlined in those Pools. But the real danger of trying to | :35:40. | :35:44. | |
separate out his a proprietary trading of the investment banks, | :35:44. | :35:48. | |
and the derivatives trading. Willetts make London less | :35:48. | :35:54. | |
attractive as a financial centre? - - will it make London less | :35:54. | :35:58. | |
attractive? If we do it in the UK and other places don't, we will | :35:58. | :36:03. | |
lose out. The trouble is getting the regulation to happen all over | :36:03. | :36:07. | |
the world. Lots of countries look at the City of London with covetous | :36:07. | :36:13. | |
eyes, because it makes a loss of many in the good times. We can't | :36:13. | :36:19. | |
have the taxpayer being on the club again for what happened when the | :36:19. | :36:23. | |
banks over-extended themselves... That is why the leverage ratio... I | :36:23. | :36:29. | |
don't think the Chancellor will put a clause in the Bill on that. | :36:29. | :36:33. | |
so sorry, I have to say goodbye to you. And goodbye to my guest of the | :36:33. | :36:38. | |
day, Louise coup before stop we have a busy week in politics ahead | :36:38. | :36:43. | |
of us this week. The Right Reverend Justin Welby, | :36:43. | :36:48. | |
the former Archbishop of Durham, has formally confirmed as the 105th | :36:48. | :36:53. | |
Archbishop of Canterbury today at a ceremony at Canterbury Cathedral. | :36:53. | :36:57. | |
There will be a lot of interest in his views on gay marriage, because | :36:57. | :37:02. | |
MPs will vote on that issue for the first time tomorrow. Wednesday will | :37:02. | :37:05. | |
see the publication of a landmark report into the failings leading to | :37:05. | :37:08. | |
the deaths of dozens of people in the care of Mid Staffordshire NHS | :37:08. | :37:13. | |
Foundation Trust. On Thursday the Prime Minister goes to Brussels for | :37:13. | :37:23. | |
:37:23. | :37:23. | ||
two-day talks on the future of the EU budget. Joining me from College | :37:23. | :37:30. | |
Green up up a career from the Evening Standard and Ben Duckworth. | :37:30. | :37:34. | |
But first, here is what the Liberal Democrat leader, Nick Clegg, said | :37:34. | :37:38. | |
about Chris Huhne. Chris Huhne has pleaded guilty this morning and | :37:38. | :37:43. | |
announced he will be standing down as an MP. This is obviously an | :37:43. | :37:47. | |
extremely serious matter and it is essential that the legal process is | :37:47. | :37:50. | |
now allowed to run its course. I am shocked and saddened by what has | :37:50. | :37:54. | |
happened but I believe that Chris Huhne has taken the right decision | :37:54. | :38:04. | |
in resigning as an MP. Nick Clegg, the leader of the Lib Dems. | :38:04. | :38:09. | |
Pippa, what is your response to today's events with Chris Huhne? | :38:09. | :38:13. | |
took us all by surprise. We have had weeks and weeks of self- | :38:13. | :38:18. | |
confidence coming from both a man and his associates, I think we all | :38:18. | :38:23. | |
expected a long week of it in the courts this week. Everyone is taken | :38:23. | :38:27. | |
aback at Westminster, it is a huge story. The next step will be the by | :38:27. | :38:31. | |
election, the first one which will have pitted the Conservatives | :38:32. | :38:35. | |
against the Lib Dems in a really winnable seat since the election, | :38:35. | :38:40. | |
so I think it will be gloves off. Ben Duckworth, this will be the | :38:40. | :38:44. | |
first time Tories and Liberal Democrats are up against each other, | :38:44. | :38:49. | |
coalition partners, since the government began? Yes, and the | :38:49. | :38:53. | |
conservative MPs are baying for Lib Dem blood after they kiboshed the | :38:53. | :38:58. | |
boundary changes last week. They will be looking to take a scalpel | :38:58. | :39:08. | |
:39:08. | :39:13. | ||
over their Lib Dem partners. -- a scalp from. Nigel Farage is making | :39:13. | :39:18. | |
his way around the constituency, which is the area he is MEP for. | :39:18. | :39:23. | |
For the Lib Dems, depending on how Chris Huhne is sentenced, they have | :39:23. | :39:28. | |
to recover from that and the test is whether they will be able to | :39:28. | :39:35. | |
hold the seat. Nigel Farage has not ruled himself out. Pepper, in terms | :39:35. | :39:40. | |
of the loss for the Lib Dems, how do you gauge Chris Huhne's | :39:40. | :39:45. | |
departure? He was a heavy hitter for a party which is lacking in | :39:45. | :39:49. | |
them. Had he been acquitted and come back into mainstream politics, | :39:49. | :39:53. | |
he would probably have ended up in Parliament again and would have | :39:53. | :39:57. | |
been a leading contender for the leadership after the election, | :39:57. | :40:01. | |
should Nick Clegg stand down. Nick Clegg may be privately relieved | :40:01. | :40:06. | |
that he is no longer around to oppose that threat, leaving Vince | :40:06. | :40:11. | |
Cable the main leader in waiting for the Lib Dems. If we move on to | :40:11. | :40:16. | |
the issue of Europe, never far away, Ben, and we have these two-day | :40:16. | :40:20. | |
talks on the future of the EU budget, is there any good feeling | :40:20. | :40:25. | |
left from David Cameron's speech on the in-out referendum? It had a | :40:25. | :40:28. | |
very short honeymoon indeed, particularly with the gay marriage | :40:28. | :40:33. | |
vote tomorrow, I think there will be a sense of a renewed and even | :40:33. | :40:36. | |
strong expectation from Conservative MPs that it has to be | :40:36. | :40:41. | |
something symbolic from these two days at the end of the week, where | :40:41. | :40:44. | |
David Cameron goes to Europe and basically sticks its European | :40:44. | :40:48. | |
counterparts. For David Cameron, I think he needs something symbolic, | :40:48. | :40:53. | |
whether it is a supportive gesture or quotes from Angela Merkel, | :40:53. | :40:57. | |
something which shows that after the speech he is being taken | :40:57. | :41:01. | |
seriously on that stage, and the idea of Britain being able to come | :41:01. | :41:04. | |
to a new settlement is a possibility. If it will be | :41:04. | :41:08. | |
difficult to get any kind of concession? It is a huge problem, | :41:08. | :41:13. | |
he has 26 EU leaders to persuade and inevitably he will have to tone | :41:13. | :41:17. | |
down his rhetoric in private conversations with them. If that | :41:17. | :41:21. | |
feeds back into Britain and Westminster, the Euro phobic wing | :41:21. | :41:27. | |
of his party which so far has reached some sort of accords with | :41:27. | :41:32. | |
the Prime Minister since his speech will be at it again, they will be | :41:32. | :41:37. | |
snapping at his heels and desperate for concessions. He has said there | :41:37. | :41:41. | |
will be a referendum but he is not legislating for it in this | :41:41. | :41:45. | |
Parliament, and there will be a lot of pressure for him to do that. | :41:45. | :41:50. | |
Joining us now is our Monday panel of MPs, Conservative Alan paints, | :41:50. | :41:55. | |
Anas Sarwar wire of Labour and a Liberal Democrat, who drew the | :41:56. | :42:00. | |
short straw on the day that Chris Huhne charged -- changed his plea, | :42:00. | :42:06. | |
Tessa Munt. What is your reaction? I am amazingly shocked. Chris has | :42:06. | :42:12. | |
had a very long career both in Westminster and as an MEP, he has | :42:13. | :42:17. | |
been a fantastic constituency MP. I am stunned. I heard the news on the | :42:17. | :42:23. | |
way you this morning. His political career is over? I think so. He has | :42:23. | :42:28. | |
finished it himself, which is the right thing to do, no question. | :42:28. | :42:32. | |
heard Nick Clegg saying he is shocked and saddened. We all are. | :42:32. | :42:38. | |
Nobody had any idea this was coming. It is very shocking. We need to try | :42:38. | :42:46. | |
to look forward, I suppose, from the mess that there is here and see | :42:46. | :42:49. | |
if we can ensure that the people of Eastleigh have another good | :42:49. | :42:55. | |
constituency MP. Let's think ahead to the by-election, an opportunity | :42:55. | :42:59. | |
for the Conservatives? I'm sorry for Chris Huhne, he has taken the | :42:59. | :43:04. | |
right course of action. The press were predicting that the CPS might | :43:04. | :43:08. | |
drop their case just a few weeks ago. The by-election will be | :43:08. | :43:12. | |
extremely interesting, it is a Lib Dem/Conservative battle with the | :43:12. | :43:18. | |
Labour Party a bit further behind, but when there is a low its -- a | :43:18. | :43:23. | |
low turnout, anything can happen. I am confident we will take the fight | :43:23. | :43:28. | |
to the Lib Dems and Labour. How do you rate your chances? If people | :43:28. | :43:35. | |
look at what Chris did for his constituency in Eastleigh, I think | :43:35. | :43:39. | |
they will look to a Liberal Democrat MP again. It is deeply | :43:39. | :43:45. | |
saddening what has happened today, but he has been fantastic. He did | :43:45. | :43:53. | |
some very good things as a cabinet minister. But on policy grounds | :43:53. | :43:56. | |
come I suspect the people of Eastleigh would be more inclined to | :43:56. | :44:01. | |
be conservative thinking, as a result of the changes made? Do you | :44:01. | :44:07. | |
not feel let down by Chris Huhne over this? And his constituents | :44:07. | :44:14. | |
etc? I would be mad to say they didn't feel that. But it will be a | :44:14. | :44:20. | |
different candidate, different circumstances, lots of chaos. There | :44:21. | :44:27. | |
will be lots of things coming into play and we have to see what | :44:27. | :44:33. | |
happens, but he has pleaded guilty. You won't be that involved in the | :44:33. | :44:40. | |
by-election? The Labour Party? Nobody revels in the personal grief | :44:40. | :44:44. | |
of anybody, so our sympathy is with Chris and his family. It is | :44:44. | :44:48. | |
interesting that the coalition are already arguing about the by- | :44:48. | :44:52. | |
election, although not surprising. The Prime Minister had the grief of | :44:52. | :44:57. | |
his party being torn apart around the EU issue, then there was the | :44:57. | :45:01. | |
referendum issue this week to try to oust the Prime Minister, now the | :45:01. | :45:05. | |
coalition are fighting a by- election. I think the Prime | :45:05. | :45:08. | |
Minister and Deputy Prime Minister will be worried today. I am not | :45:08. | :45:12. | |
sure what he is talking about when the Prime Minister walked in after | :45:12. | :45:17. | |
his speech on Europe, he was received with the warmest | :45:17. | :45:21. | |
recognition and applause he has ever been in the Times that I have | :45:21. | :45:23. | |
been in the Commons. I don't understand what you mean about | :45:24. | :45:33. | |
:45:34. | :45:42. | ||
being torn apart. Why are there I have heard of things but I think | :45:42. | :45:48. | |
the reality is it is pipe dreams trying to ascertain what sort of | :45:48. | :45:52. | |
support there might be. The reality is there is no support for a | :45:52. | :45:57. | |
challenge to the Prime Minister. He is there and doing a very good job | :45:57. | :46:02. | |
in very difficult circumstances. I would bet my life he will be the | :46:02. | :46:06. | |
leader of the Conservative Party coming up to the next election. | :46:06. | :46:11. | |
What is driving these plots? If you say there is nothing in them and | :46:11. | :46:14. | |
their support to challenge the leadership of David Cameron, how | :46:14. | :46:18. | |
can you say that so categorically when there are plots being talked | :46:18. | :46:24. | |
about and they are all over the papers? I remember the plots about | :46:24. | :46:28. | |
Gordon Brown and Tony Blair but they never came to anything. Some | :46:28. | :46:34. | |
individuals feel they should be in government. It is probably down to | :46:34. | :46:41. | |
personalities. What is driving it? Egos is fine. Is there a | :46:41. | :46:46. | |
satisfaction with David Cameron on the backbenches? I do not take that | :46:46. | :46:51. | |
battle. A few weeks ago, when he came in after his speech on Europe, | :46:51. | :46:58. | |
the applause and the noise was louder than it has ever been before | :46:58. | :47:03. | |
in recognition of what he had done. The important point is David | :47:03. | :47:07. | |
Cameron making a speech on Europe was not acting in the interests of | :47:07. | :47:11. | |
the country. At a time when you have an economic storm, rather | :47:11. | :47:14. | |
having a government and Prime Minister to pull the country | :47:14. | :47:18. | |
together, you have a political party pulling itself apart. Why is | :47:18. | :47:25. | |
it not in the interests of the country? If it was in interests, it | :47:25. | :47:30. | |
would be held now. It is a ploy and a waiter tried to win the next | :47:30. | :47:40. | |
:47:40. | :47:41. | ||
election, to appease backbenchers. -- a way to try to win. The Prime | :47:41. | :47:45. | |
Minister's demonstration of putting the country's interest first is | :47:46. | :47:48. | |
demonstrated in coming together with the Lib Dems in the interests | :47:48. | :47:54. | |
of the country. That proves he puts the country before party politics. | :47:54. | :48:01. | |
Do you believe it is in the interest of the to have the | :48:01. | :48:09. | |
election -- the interests of the country to have the referendum? | :48:09. | :48:15. | |
is entirely up to them. What would you like to see? There are a lot of | :48:15. | :48:19. | |
people who would like to build to answer a question. It is important | :48:19. | :48:24. | |
to understand what that means. There are huge numbers of | :48:24. | :48:27. | |
businesses and farmers in my area. The last thing they want is to pull | :48:27. | :48:34. | |
out of Europe. What I think is quite interesting is, since the | :48:34. | :48:37. | |
Prime Minister has spoken on the subject, quite a lot of | :48:37. | :48:41. | |
organisations have come out in favour of staying in Europe. They | :48:41. | :48:45. | |
are clear about the fact they do not want to rock the boat at this | :48:45. | :48:52. | |
stage. So much about income, lots of farming takes place and | :48:52. | :48:58. | |
associated business. The Lib Dems wanted 10 in/out referendum. | :48:58. | :49:04. | |
need to make sure people realise what that will mean on a day-by-day | :49:04. | :49:09. | |
basis. People need to understand exactly what the impact is in the | :49:09. | :49:13. | |
case of the Scottish referendum. you agree with most of what David | :49:13. | :49:17. | |
Cameron said in his speech? It seemed to give an impression of | :49:17. | :49:21. | |
being behind the EU are wanting to keep a central role in the European | :49:21. | :49:26. | |
Union in the feature and reforming our relationship with the European | :49:26. | :49:33. | |
Union? -- in the future. Absolutely. That would be my personal position. | :49:33. | :49:40. | |
We do not the door Europe. We think it is a sensible business | :49:40. | :49:47. | |
arrangement. -- knocked the door Europe. A friend of mine, who used | :49:47. | :49:52. | |
to be an MEP, he has actually put together 10 things he would change | :49:52. | :49:56. | |
about the EU. There are things we need to straighten out and make | :49:56. | :50:00. | |
sure it works better for us. It is pointless sitting outside of Europe | :50:00. | :50:07. | |
and hoping. It is a risk, isn't it? We have the eurozone. They will | :50:07. | :50:16. | |
need to come closer together. There were need to be treaties. -- there | :50:16. | :50:21. | |
will need. This is an opportunity for Britain to reshape Europe that | :50:21. | :50:26. | |
we want to be part of. It will give him the opportunity to renegotiate, | :50:26. | :50:33. | |
as Europe changes itself. Labour will be given the chance to offer a | :50:33. | :50:40. | |
referendum just before the next election, I would guess? 50% of the | :50:40. | :50:45. | |
Business the UK does is with other EU countries. Just as 50% of the | :50:45. | :50:49. | |
business that Scotland has is with the EU. What would be better would | :50:49. | :50:53. | |
be if the Prime Minister would have a meaningful negotiation and a | :50:53. | :50:59. | |
meaningful discussion about what membership of the EU means. He is | :50:59. | :51:03. | |
playing for his cards. If he does not get the right deal, will he | :51:03. | :51:08. | |
come out of Europe? Is that his plan? Do you think he should | :51:08. | :51:13. | |
campaign to come out? Let's see what the Delia's. There was the | :51:13. | :51:18. | |
Swedish Prime Minister, the Danish Prime Minister, who has absolutely | :51:18. | :51:22. | |
understood what the Prime Minister was talking about. -- who | :51:22. | :51:27. | |
absolutely understood. David Cameron is talking about further | :51:27. | :51:31. | |
opt-outs. They are the sorts of things that other European nations | :51:31. | :51:35. | |
have said, we are not going to agree to that. It is negotiation. | :51:35. | :51:41. | |
That is why Benny's to be time for it. We need to develop allies on | :51:41. | :51:47. | |
Denmark and Sweden, as many as the leaders have also shown sympathy | :51:47. | :51:50. | |
towards. Now, Prime Ministers Question Time. We watch it | :51:50. | :51:53. | |
religiously on the Daily Politics but what do we really learn from | :51:53. | :51:56. | |
it? The half-hour session gives Members of Parliament the chance to | :51:56. | :51:59. | |
hold the person in charge to account. But MPs on all sides are | :51:59. | :52:02. | |
widely derided for their childish behaviour, which many say is | :52:02. | :52:07. | |
putting the public off politics altogether. The Speaker John Bercow | :52:07. | :52:17. | |
:52:17. | :52:19. | ||
seems to have lost patience and says the decibel level exceeds | :52:19. | :52:29. | |
:52:29. | :52:30. | ||
anything that Deep Purple would have exceeded! You are a | :52:30. | :52:34. | |
distinguished practising barrister will start you would not have | :52:34. | :52:39. | |
behaved like that in the courts. Do not behave like that in this | :52:39. | :52:45. | |
chamber. Calm yourself and be quiet. The decibel level is far too high. | :52:46. | :52:55. | |
:52:56. | :53:09. | ||
What a savage indictment of this I can see he enjoyed that. Order! | :53:09. | :53:19. | |
:53:19. | :53:19. | ||
Order! Order! Order! Order, I say to the Children's Minister, tried | :53:19. | :53:25. | |
to calm down and behave like an adult. If you cannot - if it is | :53:25. | :53:35. | |
:53:35. | :53:38. | ||
beyond you - leave the chamber. Get Do you ever get used to that racket | :53:38. | :53:44. | |
in the House of Commons? No. I think it is absolutely awful. | :53:44. | :53:50. | |
Completely unnecessary. We could take a good leaf out of the Book of | :53:50. | :53:53. | |
most of the councils in this country when you can be heard and | :53:53. | :54:03. | |
:54:03. | :54:03. | ||
had your chance to have your say. Frankly, I just find it... It is | :54:03. | :54:07. | |
ludicrous. On occasions, I have been asked on one of your sister | :54:07. | :54:12. | |
programmes to comment on Prime Minister's Questions. I have gone | :54:12. | :54:17. | |
to the studio at 1pm. If I sit in the chamber, I cannot hear the | :54:17. | :54:22. | |
questions, not the answers. If you go outside and listen on the radio | :54:22. | :54:26. | |
or television, you can hear what is going on. In the chamber, you have | :54:26. | :54:32. | |
to sit back and listen through the speakers. That does sound rather | :54:32. | :54:42. | |
:54:42. | :54:42. | ||
pointless, doesn't it? I am showing my age! I do not know about Deep | :54:42. | :54:46. | |
Purple. I think it is the theatre of little. Those within the | :54:46. | :54:51. | |
political class probably do enjoy it. Those looking from outside will | :54:51. | :54:54. | |
probably think it is a bunch of middle-aged men shouting at each | :54:54. | :54:58. | |
other and not discussing things that are relevant to their lives | :54:58. | :55:04. | |
every single day. It is entertaining. We were all laughing | :55:04. | :55:09. | |
when we were watching that. Does it attract some people to the holes | :55:09. | :55:15. | |
Theatre Of It All? You could argue it is the only time in the week | :55:15. | :55:21. | |
that the chamber is jam-packed. With Prime Minister's Questions, | :55:21. | :55:24. | |
people do not realise and appreciate about it. The Prime | :55:24. | :55:27. | |
Minister has said, it is the one time a week that he gets to know | :55:28. | :55:31. | |
everything that is going on in every department. If something is | :55:31. | :55:34. | |
going wrong and has not been brought to his attention and there | :55:34. | :55:41. | |
is a risk of it being brought up at Prime Minister's Questions, he | :55:41. | :55:48. | |
wants to know. There is a need for it. If you are the leader of the | :55:48. | :55:52. | |
opposition, or if you are the Prime Minister, standing there and it is | :55:52. | :55:57. | |
absolute silence behind you, it is a very lonely place, I can imagine. | :55:57. | :56:02. | |
Some of the noise is about support to back your leader, saying he or | :56:02. | :56:06. | |
she is doing the right thing. no good if you cannot hear what is | :56:06. | :56:12. | |
going on. The whole point is, as we said in the introduction, to hold | :56:12. | :56:16. | |
the executive to account. Can you hold the executive to account in | :56:16. | :56:22. | |
Prime Minister's Questions? I think not. The media is partly to blame | :56:22. | :56:29. | |
on this. Depending on the noise and the one-liners it impacts on how | :56:29. | :56:38. | |
could a writing you get I am not. You get. You cannot hear most of | :56:38. | :56:43. | |
the questions are almost of the answers. People want a genuine | :56:43. | :56:49. | |
cross-examination of the Government. That does not happen at Prime | :56:49. | :56:55. | |
Minister's Questions. There should be real questions. Patsy questions | :56:55. | :57:01. | |
should go, shouldn't they? you're going to hold someone to | :57:01. | :57:06. | |
recant, do it. One thing I would say is on that particular occasion, | :57:06. | :57:10. | |
what you do get is a sense of the quick-witted miss of some people | :57:10. | :57:15. | |
who perform. That is a delight. Sometimes I cannot stop but not | :57:15. | :57:19. | |
because someone has said something very funny. The humour of the | :57:19. | :57:23. | |
situation is very good. When people can react like that under extreme | :57:23. | :57:27. | |
pressure, that is fantastic. That goes for every Question Time that | :57:27. | :57:33. | |
we have at the beginning of every day and not just Prime Minister's | :57:33. | :57:36. | |
Questions. Nick Clegg is not involved in the Prime Minister's | :57:36. | :57:44. | |
Question combat. What is it like? It is not the same. Wouldn't it be | :57:44. | :57:49. | |
nice? There are only 57 of us. We cannot rule the world. It is | :57:49. | :57:53. | |
important for people to understand that Prime Minister's Questions is | :57:53. | :57:57. | |
only that one session of the week. Most of the other questions offer | :57:57. | :58:01. | |
much better scrutiny. Coming back to Prime Minister's Questions, if | :58:01. | :58:04. | |
there is that killer question exposing something the Prime | :58:04. | :58:09. | |
Minister does not know, it really does serve a purpose. We have not | :58:09. | :58:12. | |
had that in recent times was a nothing that jumps to my mind | :58:12. | :58:18. | |
whether Prime Minister has been exposed. -- in recent times. That | :58:18. | :58:22. | |
is the scrutiny that is offered the stub the Prime Minister is accused | :58:22. | :58:28. | |
of not answering questions put to him. -- that is offered. Sometimes | :58:28. | :58:34. | |
questions from his own side are more tricky. Sometimes members of | :58:34. | :58:38. | |
the coalition are not prepared to accept the political reality. | :58:38. | :58:43. | |
partly the noise, not answering the question and sometimes people | :58:43. | :58:50. | |
showed their childish side and get angry. I do not think that projects | :58:50. | :58:54. |