19/06/2013 Daily Politics


19/06/2013

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Politics. Just when you thought banker bashing was passe, the

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banking commission bashes the bankers all over again. Well, it

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says it doesn't, but it sort of looks like it. The parliamentary

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commission, which was set up by George Osborne, says banking bosses

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should face inprisonment if their decisions force more bail-outs. The

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commission also recommends reforming the bonus system, and says the

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culture's too masculine! Who would have thought that? ! Will bankers

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now go to more accommodating climes? Would you like to co-sponsor a bill

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that's going through the House of Commons? Now's your chance. It's

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about Europe, and we'll be explaining how a little later.

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Doctor and writer Ben Goldacre will be here explaining why the law

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governing drugs trials needs to be changed. Piles and piles of vitally

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important medical trial results are being casually withheld from

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doctors, researchers and patients. We have known about this for

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And we'll be asking, have you ever done anything truly embarrasing at

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is embarrassing enough. Yes, all that and more coming up in

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the next 90 minutes. And joining me for the duration we have, back by

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popular demand, two fashion icons. Conservative Party chairman, Grant

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Shapps, and from Labour, the Shadow health minister Liz Kendall. Yes,

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unlike Boris, who took to the catwalk yesterday to promote the

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London suit, these two fine chairman of England's regulator said

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that his association was not fit for purpose when it came to hospital

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inspections and it is still not up to standard. A new report suggests

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that CQC might have deliberately covered up knowledge of its own

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failings in 2010 following a series of deaths of newborn babies at

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Furness General Hospital in Cumbria. Andy Burnham, this happened under

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Labour? The period in question goes from 2008 to 2012 so, partly, but it

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also relates to this government's time in office. Hospital regulation

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was not good enough, we saw through the process in mid-stats. I have put

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in play measures to improve it. But both sides will all be families in

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question answerer is, and I will fully commit our site to getting

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them. The more time goes on, the more we find out horrific things are

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happening in our health service. health service is a complicated

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complicated business. Things are happening every day, and sadly

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sometimes things go wrong. should not be killing people.

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Goodness me, no. Sometimes the NHS is not good at facing up to

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failings. It likes to pull down the shutters and push people away. I

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think this is what happened to some of the families in Morecambe. It is

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not acceptable. What is unforgivable is that weather have been failings,

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any attempt to cover up those failings. -- where there have been

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failings. What will shock people will be the instruction to delete an

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internal report in March 2012, which raises a whole host of questions

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about this regulator and its relationship with the Department of

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health. If you have a statutory duty to look after the care of people,

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which I assume was the job of this commission, if not only do you not

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do that but you then destroy the fact that you had failed to do it,

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surely that is worthy of a criminal charge? These are the most serious

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matters. I agree with you. You have to look at the context in which they

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deleted report, the context of an ongoing public enquiry, the context

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of measures that I had put in place to ensure much more in-depth

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examination of hospitals. You may remember this, I was in the post

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when there was a problem at Basildon, and I asked the CQC to

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assure us about the safety of all hospitals, to flush out further

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problems. It is in the context of this government saying it puts a

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high creamy on transparency, it is even more shocking. Shouldn't there

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be criminal charges for those responsible for the cover-up? A

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president of the United States lost his job because of a cover-up,

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surely they should go to jail if found guilty? If there has been a

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criminal offence. It sounds to me like the worst kind of... Will the

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government pursue criminal charges? The authorities have to do that, but

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we put in place the steps to expose it. Andy is right, transparency is

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the way to deal with this. People need to know what is going on in the

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health service. It is a word that all you politicians bandy about,

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people do not know what it means because it is likes is still above

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-- sustainable, it is a Westminster village buzzword. Over 1000 people

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died in Mid-Staffs, and in this Cumbrian hospital, people at their

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most vulnerable, pregnant women and babies, died because of this. I

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think we are -- I think we are looking for more than transparency.

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I agree with you, sustainability is really confusing, what do people

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mean whether something is sustainable or not? Transparency is

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very simple. You can see what is going on. The reason why things are

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coming out now, we are finding out about what happened with the CQC

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cover-up, and the reason that Mid-Staffs came up is through

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transparency. We said, there must be a full and thorough investigation.

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Over what happened, for example, at Mid-Staffs. We commissioned a report

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to make it entirely transparent. Transparency has a real meaning, I

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am pleased that Andy and I agree that it is the way forward.

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Mid-Staffs was, in part, the result of pursuing a policy focusing on one

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specific thing, targets beyond care. It is important that care is always

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number one. If you can be faced with criminal charges for fiddling your

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expenses, as some MPs and Lords have, surely you should face

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criminal charges for not only failing to protect the most

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vulnerable people in society but then covering up the fact? Cover-ups

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are the most serious aspect. Robert Francis would say that. It is

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wanting to make a mistake, people are human and mistakes made, but it

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is different when you say, I am going to cover up those failings.

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Transparency is a process. I think it began with the Freedom of

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Information Act. Lots of the institutions of this country have,

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through time, been beginning to feel the full force. That is a good

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thing. The Freedom of Information Act is doing its job. Dare I say it,

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the BBC has felt some of that with historic issues around the abuse of

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young people. All organisations have to go through this process. The NHS

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is different. I have to say, this was deleted in the month that the

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government was withholding the National risk register into the NHS.

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I think the government needs to stand by what it says on

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transparency. You are opening a new can of worms, but there needs to be

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policy development where you can develop policies. Transparency is

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meaningful. I have a feeling this will, but PMQ 's.

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Now, to something slightly different.

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Now, do you want to be my EU facebook app friend? Confused? Don't

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Once to get more involved in the legislative process with your PC,

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smartphone or pub -- tablet? Now you can, if thanks to the tech friendly

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Conservatives. This is James Wharton MP, who is introducing legislation

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to pave the way for a referendum on our membership of the EU in 2014. He

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is doing it himself in the form of a private member's bill, because the

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Lib Dems will not let the government do it. It is being discussed in

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Parliament on the 5th of July. The Tory party is running an online

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campaign to support it, called Let Britain Decide. They have launched

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an app on Facebook where you can co-sponsor the bill. You type in

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your name and e-mail address, your postcode, then the Conservative

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Party and all your friends will know that you are in favour. Some say

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this has no impact on the legislative process, because the

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idea of the public co-sponsoring a bill is meaningless in parliamentary

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terms. But the Tories say they will probably publish a list of people

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who have signed up to show the depth of feeling. And it allows us to

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deploy lots of puns, such as they are apping the anti-, and the Lib

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Dems will be app-alled. Adam Flemming there, and the UKIP

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MEP Gerard Batten is here. increase pressure on Labour and Lib

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Dem MPs who, for whatever reason, don't want to give the British

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people a say, and in-out referendum on Europe. They have got the

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opportunity to show they are on the side of the British people.

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Visibility to put your name to the bill means that they will be able to

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put pressure on their labour MP or the Dem MP to turn up at the

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comments and support the legislation. That way, we will get a

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referendum by the end of 2017, then we can decide on our relationship

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with Europe. We have looked on the Facebook page, are these the sorts

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of people and pressure you want on the opposition? Jules says that 2017

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is far too long, also you will not win the next election. Matthew says

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it is a cowardly idea to call a referendum, since many of the

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population do not have an understanding on the occasions.

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Julian says, the idea that we can negotiate anything is a fantasy.

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Good luck trying. Meanwhile, I shall be voting UKIP. Lou then you will

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get Labour, and not a referendum. The sensible thing is to vote for

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the pub -- party offering a referendum. It is controversial, I

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don't hide that. But to anyone who says you can't renegotiate anything

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with Europe, that is not true. We vetoed a treaty under David

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Cameron, we pulled out of an EU mechanism which would help fund

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other countries in the UU -- in the euro. We have reduced the budget on

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Europe. The re-negation comes over a period of time. App-alled the

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renegotiation. We have two -- we have to win the next election.

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will put pressure on Labour and make it look like you are on the wrong

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side? It is a political stunt, a Westminster game. That is what this

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is all about. Surely, national interest should come first? I am a

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humble Northerner but I have a few friends in Europe, not as many as

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Peter Mandelson, but a view. They don't interpret this as Let Britain

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Decide, they interpreted as, the Tory party wants out of Europe. At

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the time when growth and jobs are the main and important thing, how

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can it make sense to send a signal to our European partners that we

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want to get out? It is economic suicide. The national interest must

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come first. That is why they have got this wrong. But some Labour MPs

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support this. I spoke to one last night, she will vote on the 5th of

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July, she is not the only one. We are inviting them to co-sponsor the

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bill. Are they playing tricks, or do they actually believe, like most

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British people, that it is time to have a say on Europe? If the powers

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are renegotiated, a time will come when we have to have a say, but I

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don't think British business wants to see this kind of politicking. In

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my constituents is jobs and investment. I'd want a message being

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sent out from this country that we are pulling up the drawbridge,

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getting out, not interested in our main market any more. That is the

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wrong signal to send, you are putting politics above the national

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interest. It is a desperate PR stunt on the part of the government,

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Labour don't know how to react, because they do not want a

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referendum. If David Cameron was genuine about having a referendum,

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he could have said... It wasn't in the Queen's Speech, there was an

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amendment which was defeated. If he was genuine he could say, I will

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introduce a government bill for a referendum on the EU. If I can't get

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it through Parliament, I tried and I failed. You give me a big majority

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in 2015 and I will do it. He won't do that, he is not genuine about

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having a referendum. Still less about giving the British people a

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genuine... He doesn't need a majority, he has the coalition

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government, and if the Lib Dems stopped him even introducing a bill,

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look a much stronger he would seem. In a coalition government, to

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introduce a bill to parliament, you have to have the agreement of both

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sides. If the Lib Dems did not give that agreement, he would be in a

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much stronger position, but he is not prepared to do that, because he

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is not genuine. This was not in the manifesto, and it is great to be

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able to help the Lib Dems. He is dancing to the UKIP June, it is a

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product of a weak Prime Minister, that he has two go with his

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backbenchers. It is sad that the coalition has descended to this.

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do not want to let the public have their say. At the right time.

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there is a powers, as I said. When there is a change, we then say to

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the British people, at that appropriate moment, not in the midst

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of an economic crisis, when there is no growth, when we want to build our

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business with Europe, why send the message to them all that we want

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out? Unbelievable! It is a mechanism which would have cost billions of

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pounds, in the last, dying days of your government... Supporting the

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Eurozone countries... We made sure that that was abolished. We can

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renegotiate that and we can certainly renegotiate powers.

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powers can be renegotiated, it is all dishonest. The question is, do

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we want to be part of this United States of Europe or not? None of the

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parties want to give the people that question. If Andrew Tyrie gets his

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way, then those guilty of so-called reckless misconduct in future, in

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the banking, could spend some time at Her Majesty is pleasure. Here is

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JoCo to explain. The Parliamentary Commission on Banking Standards was

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set up George Osborne last year in the wake of a number of scandals in

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the industry. Its chair, Andrew Tyrie, once again seems to be in the

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mood for a spot of some banker bashing, even though he says he is

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not. The 571 page report has a number of suggestions, including the

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idea of sending senior bankers guilty of reckless misconduct to

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jail. Mr Tyrie and his chums on the commission also recommend that

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bonuses for bankers should be deferred for up to ten years. It

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will not be popular with bankers, the idea is to get away from the

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short-term thinking blamed by many for the crash in 2008. The MPs and

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peers, including none other than the Archbishop of Canterbury, Justin

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Welby, also call on George Osborne to consider breaking up a Royal Bank

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of Scotland before putting it back into private hands. The report also

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recommends employing more women on the trading floor, on the grounds

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that it could reduce risk. Finally, there are proposals to increase

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competition amongst high-street banks, by making bank account

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numbers portable in the same way as mobile phone numbers. Labour's

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former City Minister John Joins Us Now, Dressed In His G8 Gear. If This

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Report Had Been Implemented in 2008, how many bankers would have gone to

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jail? Very difficult to tell. The commission has done a very good job,

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it is a very scholarly piece of work, led by Andrew Tyrie. But

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implementation is going to be challenging, particularly the

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assumptions about the obligations regarding the law and direct does,

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and, to get a convertible definition of a failure of management I think

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is going to be quite a challenge. There are many other things in the

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report which can be lamented, and hopefully the Government will do so

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fairly rapidly this idea of reckless misconduct, which could carry

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criminal charges if found guilty, I can see lawyers getting stuck into

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that definition. It could make people wary of becoming bankers in

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the first place. When Fred Goodwin, as head of RBS, was borrowing a shed

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load of money to buy ABM Umbro, was that reckless misconduct? That will

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be a matter for the board and owners of the business to decide. Remember,

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the institutional investors, who get off scot-free in Mr Tyrie's report,

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which I think is a major in his thinking, they have not behaved like

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owners. They supported that particular acquisition. Indeed, some

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of the criticisms levelled by Mr Tyrie at the Government,

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interference in the management of RBS, giving the power to the

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regulators to control leverage, not pushing hard enough on capping

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bonuses, these are big, critical comments about the Government from

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Mr Tyrie. Also, I think they could be focused on the shareholders - why

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are you not pressing for safer, more responsible banks? But when you look

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at some of what we now think, maybe not in their criminal sense, but in

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a subjective sense, was reckless misconduct by bankers, we find that

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in this reckless misconduct, they were being egged on by politicians.

:21:19.:21:29.
:21:29.:21:32.

I think they may well have been they were, we know that. What we do know

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is that there was a very permissive environment, indeed, John Redwood

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saying that in 2004, banking regulation was far too tight, we

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needed to relax it, and there was a general consensus that a light touch

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was right. In hindsight, that was badly wrong, and Mr Tyrie quite

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rightly says, we need tougher, more nose to the ground regulation, we

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need stronger boards of direct has, and we need more powerful sanctions

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against miscreants, and we need to be able to put up a finger against

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the culprits. There is not a single person in this country serving a

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jail sentence as a result of the banking crisis. There are people in

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Europe and America. Under Labour, the fact is that there was a pact

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between Gordon Brown and the bankers, which allowed the bankers

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to get a shed load of money for themselves, and he got his cut in

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the form of taxes for his public spending, and the regulation was

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therefore kept very light touch. That's why we have ended up in this

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situation - it suited Mr Brown at the time, it suited the bankers, it

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has all come back and bit us very hard. I do not accept that at all,

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that there was a pact. We want a strong city of London, that is

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clearly in the national interest, but Gordon Brown was under pressure

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to relax it further, and he didn't. It is not possible to say that it

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was whatever they wanted. Everybody has had to reassess after what

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happened in the latter part of the last decade. The keyword is

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accountability. We spoke about it in the NHS. I think the same applies

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here - is there a accountability for people 's actions Kas when I came

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out of university and I have some friends who went to the city, there

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was the culture that this was not the real world, numbers could move

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on a screen, that is how they worked, it was a culture of excess.

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I think the recommendation from the committee is a good one, because it

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will bring accountability. It is an all-party committee, which is a

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strength. I would say, let's have the Government now saying, let's put

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this into the financial services bill. You said the city of London

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was very important to this nation, but if you are going to have laws of

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reckless misconduct, which is very vague, and tell bankers they will

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have to wait ten years for their bonuses, why would they not just

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leave and go to Wall Street? Maybe they will, but are you saying we

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want reckless behaviour Kas you have not been able to define reckless

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misconduct. It has to be defined carefully, we have had senior

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parliamentarians looking at this. They have all agreed that

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recklessness is not acceptable. The question is, how does it then result

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in chronological judges? In recent years, it has been revealed that

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British banks have been money-laundering the money of the

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drug cartels in Mexico, helping to finance the breaking of sanctions

:24:49.:24:53.

against Iran and fiddling the LIBOR rate, one of the key global interest

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rates, and yet no one has gone to jail for things that I think anybody

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listening to this would think, isn't that illegal Kas is that not

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criminal charges? In fact, the chairman of HSBC, which was involved

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in the money-laundering, terrorist financing, on a scale which led to

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the loss of human life, let's not diminish this, this is not about

:25:21.:25:23.

fixing an interest rate, this led to probably hundreds of people losing

:25:24.:25:29.

their lives, the chairman of HSBC is a member of David Cameron's

:25:29.:25:35.

government, one of the advisers to George Osborne on banking reform.

:25:36.:25:45.

Just remind me who gave Fred Goodwin his knighthood? The Queen.I did not

:25:45.:25:49.

go Gordon Brown was the Queen. You get my point, you are all in it up

:25:49.:25:54.

to here. I know it is hard for you to tell me, but can you just give us

:25:54.:25:58.

an indication of when we get the Government's official response, will

:25:59.:26:01.

the Chancellor give us an indication tonight about what parts of this you

:26:01.:26:07.

are going to implement, and what parts you are not? The report is out

:26:07.:26:15.

today, and we have only had 24 hours notice. I have only asked you for

:26:15.:26:20.

the timescale. It will be pretty rapid. We have got a pretty good

:26:20.:26:26.

bill going through the house. there could be changes to that?

:26:26.:26:35.

sounds encouraging, let's put this into place. Absolutely, we like a

:26:35.:26:39.

lot on that note, we will move on. Lord Myners, thank you for coming

:26:39.:26:42.

in. It has been brought to my attention that people are coming up

:26:42.:26:48.

with all manner of excuses not to pay their TV licence fee. It is

:26:48.:26:52.

usually something to do with Daily Politics. One householder told the

:26:52.:26:57.

authorities that she only used the TV, the light from her TV set, for

:26:57.:27:02.

reading. Another claimed that she had a corgi related to one of the

:27:02.:27:07.

Queen's dogs, and thought she must be exempt. Well, not only does your

:27:07.:27:11.

hard earned dosh bring you the best political programme that money can

:27:11.:27:14.

buy, but it gets you the chance to win this - yes, The Daily Politics

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:27:22.:27:28.

home, and all you have to do is listen to JoCo's transmission.

:27:28.:27:33.

will remind you of how to enter in a minute, but let's see if you can

:27:33.:27:43.
:27:43.:28:00.

top must bear the responsibility. the time you have got a couple of

:28:00.:28:03.

dozen photographers around you, it is very difficult to meet anybody at

:28:03.:28:13.
:28:13.:28:19.

all. Two explosions have gone off within seconds of each other...

:28:19.:28:27.

# What becomes of the broken hearted? #

:28:27.:28:34.

# Is this my beginning? Or is this the end... #

:28:34.:28:44.
:28:44.:28:57.

Their are rationing for themselves, winning a Daily Politics Mug, send

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your answer to our special e-mail address, and you can see the full

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:29:11.:29:16.

Coming up to midday, let's take a look at big then. It is a great,

:29:16.:29:24.

muddy, sticky day in London. Nick Robinson is already here. Briefly,

:29:24.:29:30.

Nigel Robinson, the Deputy Speaker - sorry, Nigel Evans, the deputy

:29:30.:29:34.

speaker of the House of Commons, now arrested on three other charges...

:29:34.:29:39.

Yes, people will remember there was real shock in politics, Nigel Evans

:29:39.:29:44.

is a popular character on all sides of the House of Commons. He was

:29:44.:29:48.

arrested in May on suspicion of rape and sexual assault, and he has

:29:48.:29:51.

reported for bail today in Lancashire, and the Lancashire

:29:51.:29:55.

Constabulary have subsequently said that he has been arrested on three

:29:55.:29:58.

further offences of indecent assault. It is the sort of thing

:29:58.:30:04.

that will go round Westminster, and bringing real surprise, shock and

:30:04.:30:10.

sadness. What has GCHQ told you Mr Miller band will go on today?

:30:10.:30:16.

only! That would save me being a journalist! I do not think it takes

:30:16.:30:19.

a genius to work out that the subject you have just been talking

:30:19.:30:23.

about, banking, is an obvious territory. I think the tone will be

:30:24.:30:28.

interesting - does he invite him to agree, or does he challenge Kas

:30:28.:30:38.
:30:38.:31:02.

Livingston, for the past few years, the chief executive of BT, will take

:31:02.:31:08.

on this vital role. I believe he will bring huge talent to a vital

:31:08.:31:14.

national effort. There are many pupils an excellent

:31:14.:31:17.

schools benefiting from outstanding teaching and inspirational teachers,

:31:17.:31:27.
:31:27.:31:27.

not all of whom have been to teacher training college, necessarily.

:31:27.:31:32.

Thereon many teachers in our schools who have not been through the formal

:31:32.:31:38.

process. Some teachers have been banned from such schools. As I have

:31:38.:31:43.

been busy, -- although I have been busy, I have looked carefully at

:31:43.:31:48.

this policy, and I know there people who teach, including those on the

:31:48.:31:52.

benches of the party opposite, the honourable member for Stoke-on-Trent

:31:52.:31:56.

Central, a renowned historian, teachers in his local compounds of

:31:56.:32:03.

schools. He will be banned. There is the former member for South who will

:32:03.:32:08.

that who also enjoys doing that. I think this policy is another example

:32:08.:32:18.
:32:18.:32:21.

of brotherly love. Following the Parliamentary commission on, can he

:32:21.:32:26.

confirmed that he supports its recommendations on bonuses and

:32:26.:32:31.

criminal penalties and that he would use the banking bill to do this?

:32:32.:32:36.

support both of those. We need to take the time to read this excellent

:32:36.:32:39.

report, and I commend the member for gesture Dutchman Richard Chester for

:32:39.:32:48.

the excellent job he has done. Making sure that banks who are in

:32:48.:32:58.
:32:58.:32:59.

receipt of taxpayers money, that we can claw back bonuses, I say yes.

:32:59.:33:03.

am glad he supports the proposal on criminal penalties, but will he

:33:03.:33:07.

confirm the important issue that the government will put down the

:33:07.:33:10.

amendment to the banking Bill currently going through Parliament,

:33:10.:33:17.

to make sure it gets on the statute book as soon as the? We will be

:33:17.:33:21.

using that Bill to take these important steps. It is important

:33:21.:33:26.

that we have that opportunity. There should be a Parliamentary enquiry

:33:26.:33:31.

done rapidly, rather than a public enquiry that he supported. If we had

:33:31.:33:34.

done that, we would just about be getting going with the inquiry.

:33:34.:33:43.

Instead, we had a good enquiry and we had strong legislation, too.

:33:43.:33:46.

If the government doesn't put down the amendments on criminal

:33:46.:33:50.

penalties, we will, in the Banking Bill, and we will make sure that

:33:50.:33:56.

they happen. The Prime Minister praises the Parliamentary commission

:33:56.:33:59.

on, but let's turn to one of its recommendations from last year 's

:33:59.:34:05.

report. It said that it should legislate for a general power to

:34:05.:34:08.

break up the banks, breaking up high risk casino banking from high street

:34:08.:34:13.

banks. The commission think it is right, but the government is so far

:34:13.:34:17.

refusing to implement... The part-time Chancellor is trying to

:34:17.:34:26.

advise the Prime Minister. We think it is right, the commission think it

:34:26.:34:30.

is right, but the government has so far refused to implement that

:34:30.:34:37.

recommendation. Why isn't the government doing it? I would rather

:34:37.:34:40.

listen to my Chancellor than listen to his neighbour, the Shadow

:34:40.:34:47.

Chancellor. We remember his advice. 125% mortgages from Northern Rock,

:34:47.:34:53.

that is fine. A knighthood for Fred Goodwin, that is fine. The biggest

:34:53.:34:58.

banking bust in British history, that is fine. He was the City

:34:58.:35:02.

Minister when all of this went wrong. This government is clearing

:35:02.:35:07.

up the mess. We wouldn't have these results without this excellent

:35:07.:35:12.

enquiry commissioned by this government, we would not be able to

:35:12.:35:15.

legislate without the excellent Banking Bill provided by this

:35:15.:35:18.

government. In terms of his question, we are putting a ring

:35:18.:35:22.

fence around retail banks, something that in 13 years of a retail

:35:22.:35:25.

government, although they were both in the Treasury, they never got

:35:25.:35:29.

round to it. We are not going to take lectures

:35:29.:35:39.
:35:39.:35:41.

from the guy who was the advisor on Black Wednesday in 1992. And he had

:35:41.:35:45.

no answer to the question about retail and investment banking. Maybe

:35:45.:35:55.
:35:55.:35:55.

he can do better on this issue. On the issue of bonuses and the banks,

:35:55.:36:02.

Mr Speaker, last week's ONS figures showed that bonuses in business and

:36:02.:36:08.

financial services this April was 64% higher than a year ago. Why does

:36:08.:36:13.

the Prime Minister think that is? Bank bonuses are about a fifth of

:36:13.:36:18.

what they were when he was sitting in the Treasury. They have been

:36:18.:36:22.

going down, not up. If he wants to discuss this issue of banking,

:36:22.:36:26.

perhaps he would reflect on the fact that the other City Minister that

:36:26.:36:30.

Labour had in their time of office, Lord Myners, said this today dashed

:36:30.:36:34.

the government of which I was a member certainly has to take some

:36:34.:36:38.

culpability for the fact that the regulatory oversight of the banks

:36:38.:36:44.

was not as effective as it should be. He says, to do otherwise would

:36:44.:36:47.

be to pull the wool over the eyes of the electorate. Perhaps the next

:36:47.:36:51.

time he gets to that despatch box, he will apologise for the mess they

:36:51.:37:00.

made? Here's asking questions and preparing for opposition. Let's talk

:37:00.:37:06.

about what people were saying in 2008. We all remember the speeches,

:37:06.:37:12.

don't we, Mr Speaker? A Conservative economic strategy. David Cameron, I

:37:12.:37:17.

quote, as a free marketeer by conviction, it will not surprise you

:37:17.:37:22.

to hear me say that a significant part of the problems of the last

:37:22.:37:28.

decade has been too much regulation. There you have it, Mr

:37:28.:37:38.

Speaker. He was wanting less regulation of the cap back row city.

:37:38.:37:44.

-- less regulation of the City. Bonuses are up 64% in the City in

:37:44.:37:52.

April. That is because he has cut the top rate of income tax from 50p

:37:52.:37:57.

to 45p. People took their bonuses in April and got a massive tax cut as a

:37:57.:38:04.

result. When the Prime Minister gets up to respond, will he confirm that

:38:04.:38:07.

64% figure and that people are getting a massive tax cut as a

:38:07.:38:17.
:38:17.:38:19.

result of his decision? In 2012/13, City bonuses will be 85% lower than

:38:19.:38:23.

in 2007 and eight, when those two were advising or working in the last

:38:23.:38:28.

government, with the responsibility for regulating the City. It doesn't

:38:28.:38:33.

matter what he says, he cannot get over the fact that they presided

:38:33.:38:37.

over the boom and bust, the collapse of the banks and the failure to

:38:37.:38:43.

regulate. We remember what they said in 2008 - no more boom and bust.

:38:43.:38:48.

They said a golden age for the City. They cannot hide their dreadful

:38:48.:38:54.

record and they ought to start with an apology. The whole House will

:38:55.:38:58.

have noticed, he cannot deny the figures I've doubt. He doesn't even

:38:58.:39:04.

know the facts. Bonuses are up, so that people can take advantage of

:39:04.:39:11.

his massive tax cut. For all his tough talk, the reality is that he

:39:11.:39:14.

is dragging his feet on banking reform. Business lending is still

:39:14.:39:20.

falling, bonuses are rising and ordinary families are suffering. He

:39:20.:39:25.

is giving a massive tax cut to the bankers. Just another display of

:39:25.:39:33.

extraordinary weakness. They had 13 years to sort out this problem, they

:39:33.:39:35.

did absolutely nothing. It is this government that has introduced the

:39:36.:39:41.

banking Bill, that has introduced the ring fence, that has put the

:39:41.:39:44.

Bank of England in charge of regulating credit in our economy.

:39:44.:39:49.

Instead, what we ought to be getting from him is an apology and a thank

:39:49.:39:59.
:39:59.:40:15.

I commend him for being the first Prime Minister ever to commit to a

:40:15.:40:22.

referendum on Europe, and to leading a government which has tackled

:40:22.:40:23.

welfare dependency, reduced immigration and brought in

:40:24.:40:29.

academies, therefore showing that one can be conservative, popular and

:40:29.:40:35.

write all the same time. Can I thank my honourable friend for his

:40:35.:40:40.

question? And on behalf of everyone in the house, can I congratulate him

:40:40.:40:43.

on his richly deserved night Woodcrest -- richly deserve

:40:43.:40:50.

knighthood? He served in this house for many decades and served in the

:40:50.:40:53.

vital role of overseeing the Public Accounts Committee, which does such

:40:54.:40:58.

important work. I am grateful for what he says about the referendum

:40:58.:41:02.

and would urge all colleagues to come to the House on July the 5th

:41:02.:41:07.

and vote for this bill. Is the Prime Minister proud of the

:41:07.:41:12.

fact that, on his watch, 300,000 more children have been pushed into

:41:12.:41:19.

absolute poverty? I am proud that we have protected the poorest in our

:41:19.:41:23.

country by increasing child tax credit. The most important thing we

:41:23.:41:27.

can do to tackle poverty is to get more people into work. There are now

:41:27.:41:32.

more people in work in our country than at any time in our history, and

:41:32.:41:36.

in his own area in the West Midlands, the number of people

:41:36.:41:40.

employed is up 66,000 since the election. It is worth remembering

:41:40.:41:45.

the last government's record, because even during the boom years,

:41:45.:41:51.

private sector employment in the West Midlands went down.

:41:51.:41:56.

I am sure he will want to join every member of the house in wishing all

:41:56.:42:00.

British players the best of luck for Wimbledon, which starts on Monday.

:42:00.:42:08.

Does he back the LTA's Schools Tennis Programme, which is in some

:42:08.:42:12.

schools in my constituency, to help find as a future home-grown and home

:42:12.:42:19.

trained champion? He is absolutely right to raise this. Let's

:42:19.:42:23.

congratulate Andy Murray for his excellent victory at the weekend at

:42:23.:42:28.

Queen 's club, and wish him and other British players well for the

:42:28.:42:33.

tenements. We should commend the LTA for trying to make tennis much more

:42:33.:42:37.

of a mass participation club. I see it in the primary school my children

:42:37.:42:42.

go to, where more tennis is being taught and played. It has a long way

:42:42.:42:46.

to go, and the lawn tennis Association has two satisfy sport

:42:46.:42:50.

England and all of the other funding bodies that they are making it a

:42:51.:42:58.

mass participation sport. When, according to the Sunday Times, just

:42:58.:43:00.

1000 of our richest citizens have increased their wealth since the

:43:00.:43:06.

financial crash by �119 billion, while everyone else, on average, has

:43:06.:43:14.

been forced to take a real terms cut in income, isn't his policy of

:43:14.:43:17.

enriching the perpetrators and punishing the victims are very

:43:17.:43:25.

opposite of a one nation Britain? The richest in our country will pay

:43:25.:43:29.

a higher percentage of income tax under this government to ban the

:43:29.:43:32.

last. He sat in that government with the opportunity to do something

:43:32.:43:37.

about it, but all the time he was a minister, the top tax rate was lower

:43:37.:43:41.

than it will be under this government.

:43:41.:43:47.

Does he agree with me that if a community is obliged to take a

:43:47.:43:51.

strategic piece of infrastructure, that there should be agreements for

:43:51.:43:56.

payment and compensation for any blight caused by a nationally

:43:56.:44:01.

important piece of infrastructure like a rail freight interchange?

:44:01.:44:09.

That is why section 106 agreement exist. We need to keep this area

:44:09.:44:15.

under observation about how we will handle fracking and shale gas. I

:44:15.:44:20.

think we will need a simpler mechanism to show that company -- to

:44:21.:44:24.

ensure that communities feel the benefit.

:44:24.:44:28.

On Monday the Milburn report showed that the proportion of students from

:44:28.:44:34.

state schools at the elite Russell Group universities is less than a

:44:34.:44:38.

decade ago. Another report is secretly considering lifting

:44:38.:44:42.

interest rates on previous graduate loans. After �9,000 tuition fees,

:44:42.:44:47.

does he think that another reach of faith like this is more likely to

:44:47.:44:52.

encourage students from work -- less wealthy backgrounds to apply to

:44:52.:44:57.

university, or to discourage them? The number of children from

:44:57.:45:00.

disadvantaged backgrounds going to university is higher than ever, that

:45:00.:45:06.

is a good step forward. If we wanted their children from disadvantaged

:45:06.:45:10.

backgrounds into universities, we should be supporting the academies

:45:10.:45:14.

programme and free schools. We saw in Labour putts-macro announcement

:45:14.:45:18.

that they now support free schools. But then they went on to say that

:45:18.:45:23.

they would not allow any more of them. And, quite extraordinary, they

:45:23.:45:29.

said this - what we will have is a new academies programme, like parent

:45:29.:45:32.

led academies, teacher led academies, such as a particular

:45:32.:45:37.

school in east London. They want more schools like that. The Shadow

:45:37.:45:41.

Education Secretary is nodding. But that school is a free school. What a

:45:41.:45:51.
:45:51.:45:52.

complete shambles. Can I ask the Prime Minister what discussions he

:45:52.:45:59.

has held with colleagues in Devra regarding the Environment Agency

:45:59.:46:03.

recognising the value of land, and the need to protect farmland in my

:46:03.:46:07.

constituency from flooding? I do have conversations about this issue

:46:07.:46:12.

with the Secretary of State for farming and food and rural affairs.

:46:12.:46:15.

As I announced in the House last week, he will soon be bringing

:46:15.:46:23.

forward the proposal to make sure that the insurance scheme regarding

:46:23.:46:27.

the danger of flooding is renewed. We also need to protect farmland,

:46:27.:46:32.

not least because with global population is rising, the demand for

:46:32.:46:42.
:46:42.:46:51.

food production will have to increase. In my constituency, one in

:46:51.:46:54.

three is living in poverty, compared to one in ten in his constituency -

:46:54.:46:57.

what is he going to do about it? I have to say to the honourable

:46:57.:47:03.

gentleman, the problem with the last government's legacy is, because you

:47:03.:47:06.

left a massive debt burden and a massive deficit, this government had

:47:06.:47:15.

to take action to deal with it. As I said, the best way... We will

:47:15.:47:19.

concentrate on the policies of the Government, not... Order. Nothing

:47:19.:47:25.

further required. We will move on. Whatever the long-term benefits of

:47:25.:47:30.

High Speed Rail Bill the project is already causing serious worry for

:47:30.:47:35.

tens of thousands of homeowners along the route. Will my Right

:47:35.:47:37.

Honourable Friend give urgent attention and consideration to the

:47:37.:47:43.

possibility of introducing a property bond to remove that blight?

:47:43.:47:52.

I know My Honourable Friend is concerned about this issue, and I

:47:52.:47:59.

know that it is right that he stands up for his constituents, and other

:47:59.:48:05.

MPs have discussed this with me. First of all, I think we should

:48:05.:48:07.

remain committed to HS2, because it will connect our cities and

:48:07.:48:09.

communities and bring many benefits, particularly, I believe, to the

:48:09.:48:10.

north of England. But I think we should look at the compensation

:48:10.:48:12.

schemes available, and we are listening to the idea of the

:48:12.:48:14.

property bond. In his state meant following the appalling murder of a

:48:14.:48:19.

month ago, the Prime Minister announced the setting up of the

:48:19.:48:28.

Government the Prime Minister -- the Government's task force on extremism

:48:28.:48:32.

in our communities. In Woolwich, our diverse communities have been

:48:32.:48:35.

working hard to do just that. Can the Prime Minister House what

:48:35.:48:40.

progress has been made, and specifically what new ways he

:48:40.:48:45.

envisages emerging to support communities such as ours? First of

:48:45.:48:48.

all, can I commend the Right Honourable Gentleman for the action

:48:48.:48:51.

he has taken in his own community. When I visited Woolwich I saw how

:48:51.:48:55.

strongly that community has come together to decry what happened and

:48:55.:49:00.

to build a stronger future. The task force has met and the ideas have

:49:00.:49:04.

been commissioned. One particular idea we are looking at is something

:49:04.:49:07.

I heard while I was with him in Woolwich, which is, where

:49:07.:49:10.

communities want to come together and try to drive extremist groups

:49:10.:49:15.

out of particular mosques or Islamic centres, they often need help

:49:15.:49:20.

including help with legal advice to do that. So, that is one specific

:49:20.:49:24.

idea. But this task force should cover the whole waterfront from

:49:24.:49:34.
:49:34.:49:38.

everything right across the community. Given the role of women

:49:38.:49:44.

in the developing world, especially in the realm of sanitation, health,

:49:45.:49:47.

business and all other matters affecting administration in other

:49:47.:49:51.

countries, will my Right Honourable Friend take a positive interest in

:49:51.:49:56.

my gender inequality bill, which is coming forward today, and will he

:49:56.:50:04.

note that he was already supported by the very wide range of people? I

:50:04.:50:11.

will study My Honourable Friend's bill closely. It is not the bill

:50:11.:50:21.

that everybody might expect... more about real cash's bill. It is

:50:21.:50:24.

not necessarily the bill which we would all expecting to produce, but

:50:24.:50:28.

I think it is an excellent idea, I'm co-chairing the high-level panel at

:50:28.:50:32.

the UN about the future of development, I wanted to make sure

:50:32.:50:35.

that gender equality was put right up there in the replacement for the

:50:35.:50:40.

millennium development goals, and it is there, and I think his bill might

:50:40.:50:46.

be able to provide some extra ideas to bring this to life. In 2010, the

:50:46.:50:50.

Prime Minister proudly stated, and I quote, we actually made sure that

:50:50.:50:54.

neither the budget nor the spending round would result in any increase

:50:54.:51:00.

in child poverty. But in his first full year as Prime Minister, the

:51:00.:51:02.

number of children in absolute poverty rose by 300000 and is still

:51:02.:51:07.

rising. Will he now admits that he was wrong and his policies are to

:51:07.:51:12.

blame? We did make a specific decision in the spending round to

:51:12.:51:18.

increase child tax credit for the poorest families in our country. But

:51:18.:51:22.

we had an inheritance from the past garment of such appalling levels of

:51:22.:51:26.

debt that it has been painful to deal with. But let me repeat the

:51:26.:51:29.

best way to get people out of poverty is to see employment grow,

:51:30.:51:33.

and in the north-west, the part of the country she represents,

:51:33.:51:39.

employment has risen by 6000 this quarter. It has 50,000 since the

:51:39.:51:42.

election, and unemployment is now 20,000 since the election. Those are

:51:42.:51:47.

all life chances, jobs and chances to get on, that people did not have

:51:47.:51:53.

under the last Labour government. Could I welcome my Right Honourable

:51:53.:52:00.

Friend's leadership of the G8 in helping to prevent the horrors of

:52:00.:52:04.

Syria turning into a regional humanitarian catastrophe? And could

:52:04.:52:12.

I urge him to pursue further the support for Lebanon and Jordan, two

:52:12.:52:14.

very fragile neighbouring states, and especially urge him to go

:52:14.:52:17.

further with the support we are providing for the leather knee 's

:52:17.:52:24.

army, which is the only organisation in the area which could be a

:52:24.:52:33.

potentially stabilising force. -- Lebanese army. Could I thank him for

:52:33.:52:36.

that. We did make some progress on Syria, the tequila Lee in terms of

:52:36.:52:42.

humanitarian aid, where $1.5 billion extra was pledged for what is now

:52:42.:52:47.

becoming one of the worst Unitarian crises we have seen in recent years.

:52:47.:52:51.

He is absolutely right, we need to support the neighbouring states, and

:52:51.:53:01.
:53:01.:53:02.

we should support the Lebanese army. In response to My Honourable

:53:02.:53:06.

Friend, on several occasions, the Prime Minister has said that the

:53:06.:53:10.

best way of tackling poverty is to get people into work. But would he

:53:10.:53:15.

explain this - why is it that two thirds of the children in poverty

:53:15.:53:19.

today come from families where there is at least one adult in work, and

:53:19.:53:26.

why is that figure rising? The point I would make to the Jan Short is

:53:26.:53:31.

that work is the best answer for taking people out of poverty. -- to

:53:31.:53:33.

the Honourable Gentleman. Yes, of course we should continue paying

:53:34.:53:39.

child benefit, which we do, and tax credits. Indeed, one decision we

:53:39.:53:42.

made when we came into office was to stop the nonsense of tax credits

:53:42.:53:47.

going to people, including members of this House of Commons, earning

:53:47.:53:50.

�50,000 or more a year. We are focusing their help on the people

:53:50.:53:55.

who need it most. Yes, in the West Midlands, we have seen an extra

:53:55.:54:05.

66,000 people in work. A few weeks ago, nine paediatricians wrote to me

:54:05.:54:08.

in the code quality commission expressing serious safety concerns

:54:08.:54:11.

regarding maternity services getting downgraded. Since then, their

:54:11.:54:16.

managers have acted in an intimidating manner. Real the Prime

:54:16.:54:21.

Minister ensure me that reprisals will not be made against these.

:54:21.:54:29.

Does? -- against these doctors? As we have said before, there should

:54:29.:54:33.

always be safeguards for people who whistleblower and tell the truth

:54:33.:54:39.

about Robbins in the NHS. We have completely overhauled the CQC, and

:54:39.:54:42.

the report out today proves that it was a totally dysfunctional

:54:42.:54:48.

organisation that we inherited. In a few weeks, thousands of young people

:54:48.:54:53.

across the country will be graduating from university, and

:54:53.:54:57.

looking forward to getting their first step on the career ladder.

:54:57.:55:00.

Unfortunately for many of them, the only option will be a long-term,

:55:00.:55:05.

unpaid internship, which requires them to work for free. Will the

:55:05.:55:08.

Prime Minister therefore make sure that the national minimum wage

:55:08.:55:13.

regulations are vigorously enforced by HM RC to put an end to this

:55:14.:55:18.

expectation of our young people? I think the Right Honourable Lady is

:55:18.:55:21.

doing some really important work in this area, and it is an important

:55:21.:55:27.

area to get right. We all know from our own experiences at some short

:55:27.:55:32.

term internships, work experience, can be very valuable for picking

:55:32.:55:38.

taking part. But on the other hand, what we should not have is the

:55:38.:55:41.

employment of unpaid interns instead of workers to avoid the national

:55:41.:55:45.

minimum wage. That is the balance we have to put right and I commend her

:55:45.:55:51.

for the important work she is doing. The excellent children's heart unit

:55:51.:55:54.

at Southampton General is the best in the country outside of London,

:55:54.:55:58.

get the recent decision by the Secretary of State means more

:55:58.:56:00.

uncertainty for patients and their families in my Eastleigh

:56:00.:56:05.

constituency. What assurances can the Prime Minister give over the

:56:05.:56:09.

future of this unit? What I would say to My Honourable Friend is that

:56:09.:56:14.

I do not think the Secretary of State really had any choice but to

:56:14.:56:19.

start this whole process of looking at safe and sustainable services,

:56:19.:56:24.

including Southampton, which is twinned with the hospital which

:56:24.:56:29.

serves my constituency. I understand people's frustration, but most

:56:29.:56:34.

important is to make sure we get the decision right. The Government's own

:56:34.:56:39.

research shows a link between the portrayal of women as sex objects in

:56:39.:56:42.

the media and the greater acceptance of sexual harassment and violence

:56:43.:56:47.

against women. That being the case, will he join me in trying to get our

:56:47.:56:51.

own House in order, calling on the Parliamentary authorities to stop

:56:51.:56:54.

the Sun newspaper being available on the Parliamentary estate, and will

:56:54.:56:58.

he have a word with his friend Rupert Murdoch with it while he is

:56:58.:57:07.

at it? I am grateful to the Honourable Lady, I am glad she got

:57:07.:57:09.

her question asked, after the dazzling T-shirt she was wearing

:57:09.:57:13.

last week failed to catch the Speaker's I. I think it is very

:57:13.:57:17.

important that we should be able to read or newspapers on the

:57:17.:57:24.

Parliamentary estate, including the Sun newspaper. I welcome the Prime

:57:24.:57:29.

Minister's leadership, that, on getting the G8 to agree a deal on

:57:29.:57:33.

tackling aggressive corporate tax avoidance. Will my Right Honourable

:57:33.:57:38.

Friend confirmed that he will not be offering a corporate tax avoidance

:57:38.:57:44.

service as does the party opposite? I think My Honourable Friend makes

:57:44.:57:49.

an important point, which is that at the G8, we achieved real progress on

:57:49.:57:52.

tax transparency, cracking down on tax evasion and aggressive tax

:57:52.:57:55.

avoidance, but is it not a sad thing that while we were doing that, the

:57:55.:58:00.

party opposite is still offering tax avoidance advice to its donors, and

:58:00.:58:08.

they have not paid back the �700 of tax that they owe. Let me remind him

:58:08.:58:12.

what he said Ash if everybody approaches their tax affairs like

:58:12.:58:16.

some of these companies do, we would not have an education service, we

:58:16.:58:20.

would not have a health system. So, he has got to put his hand in his

:58:20.:58:27.

pocket and give the money back. Prime Minister, I wrote to you on

:58:27.:58:31.

eight May and have not yet received a reply. Could I ask you now - have

:58:31.:58:36.

you ever had any discussions with Lincoln Crosby about the standard

:58:36.:58:39.

packaging of cigarettes or the minimum price of unit of alcohol,

:58:39.:58:44.

yes or no? I can tell you that Lynton Crosby has never lobbied me

:58:44.:58:49.

on anything. The only opinions that I am interested in our how we

:58:49.:58:55.

destroy the credibility of the Labour Party. On which he has

:58:55.:58:58.

considerable expertise, though I have to say he is not doing as good

:58:58.:59:08.
:59:08.:59:14.

a job as the party opposite. successfully intervened in the case

:59:14.:59:19.

of a newborn baby, who has now eventually been confirmed as the

:59:19.:59:23.

daughter of a private who died on active service in Afghanistan. His

:59:23.:59:26.

fiancee and family are in the gallery today. This whole situation,

:59:26.:59:32.

Mr Speaker, would not have arisen if the MOD routinely kept samples of

:59:33.:59:36.

DNA for those soldiers on active duty - are we making any progress on

:59:36.:59:40.

this? My Honourable Friend makes an important point, and he is quite

:59:40.:59:43.

right to have stood up for his constituents in the way that he did.

:59:43.:59:47.

I would like to convene a meeting with MOD ministers, so that I can

:59:47.:59:51.

get back to him with the very best answer about the action we can take

:59:51.:59:56.

to stop this happening in the future. The number of families

:59:56.:00:02.

living in temporary accommodation, homeless families, rose by 5000 in

:00:02.:00:08.

the last year. Can the Prime Minister explain why? ? What we need

:00:08.:00:12.

to do is to build more houses in our country, and that is exactly what

:00:12.:00:17.

this government is doing. We are building more social houses and more

:00:17.:00:21.

private houses, and we are reforming housing benefit, so we can better

:00:21.:00:28.

use the money. The question now is for the party opposite. Base bend

:00:28.:00:30.

weeks and weeks complaining about the removal of the spare room

:00:30.:00:34.

subsidy. I do not know whether anybody else has noticed, they do

:00:34.:00:37.

not ask questions about it any more. Could that possibly be because they

:00:37.:00:47.

have not got a clue about whether they would restore it? With an

:00:47.:00:49.

estimated �10 billion boost to our economy, does my Right Honourable

:00:49.:00:54.

Friend agree that a free-trade agreement with the United States

:00:54.:00:59.

represents a glittering prize for Britain and for Europe?

:00:59.:01:02.

Honourable Friend is absolutely right. I think it is very good news

:01:02.:01:07.

that this free-trade agreement has been launched at Lough Erne in

:01:07.:01:11.

Northern Ireland. It will now take many months of difficult and patient

:01:11.:01:15.

negotiation. It is a hugely competitive problem, because we want

:01:15.:01:19.

it to cover all sorts of areas, like public procurement and services, and

:01:19.:01:23.

not just manufactured goods. But it is good that is getting going,

:01:23.:01:33.
:01:33.:01:37.

because this could mean millions of jobs right across Europe. On the

:01:37.:01:41.

subject of giving money back, which he has just referred to in respect

:01:41.:01:48.

of the Labour Party, will he now explained to the House why, when he

:01:48.:01:54.

had a windfall, he decided to write down his mortgage at Notting Hill

:01:54.:02:01.

instead of writing down the mortgage of the one that he was claiming for

:02:01.:02:08.

from the expenses allowance in the House of Commons? I think what the

:02:08.:02:13.

Honourable Gentleman needs to do is concentrate on the massive problem

:02:13.:02:18.

on his front bench, because I have to say, Mr Speaker, every week till

:02:18.:02:23.

they pay the money back, they are going to get a question about the

:02:23.:02:33.
:02:33.:02:52.

�700,000 that they owe to the There seems to be a consensus

:02:52.:02:56.

between the frontbenchers that big chunks of the report should be

:02:57.:03:02.

implemented, and quickly. Mr Miliband and Mr Cameron therefore

:03:02.:03:05.

decided to fallout over bankers' bonuses, to give them something to

:03:05.:03:10.

argue about. The ported news since we have been

:03:10.:03:16.

an air is that South Africa is 88 48. -- the imported use.

:03:16.:03:23.

We are joined by the shadow attorney general, Emily Thornberry. About the

:03:23.:03:29.

programme. Jacqueline says petty squabbling,

:03:29.:03:35.

nothing said at PMQ 's has any bearing on my way. It just shows how

:03:35.:03:41.

out of touch politicians from all colours. Another person said, a

:03:41.:03:50.

snappy but boring spat. It's basically descended to, it was your

:03:50.:03:55.

fault, no, it or, misguided Ed Miliband. Yet again he David Cameron

:03:55.:03:59.

on the aftermath of the economic explosion. He will always get a good

:03:59.:04:03.

hiding because he can never overcome the stigma of Gordon Brown and the

:04:03.:04:13.
:04:13.:04:16.

Labour Party putts-macro failure to see the James in Hampshire, they

:04:16.:04:20.

need to face up to the countless failures of the government and not

:04:20.:04:27.

attempt to hide from the coalition's unpopular and calamitous

:04:27.:04:34.

policies. He is up for criminal charges, up

:04:34.:04:39.

for delaying bonuses. Mr Miliband says, that is great, and if you

:04:39.:04:42.

don't, we will. It seems like the only politician in Britain prepared

:04:43.:04:49.

to stand up for the bankers is Boris Johnson. No wonder, he is the Mayor

:04:49.:04:53.

of London and that is where he thinks much of London's money is

:04:53.:04:59.

created. The arguments may come down to the detail. Just before PMQ 's,

:04:59.:05:05.

you were discussing how to define reckless behaviour. In what

:05:05.:05:07.

circumstances are bonuses delayed, in what circumstances are they

:05:07.:05:13.

clawed back? Although there is a broad consensus that they agreed to,

:05:13.:05:18.

frankly, they all read the same opinion polls and bankers are even

:05:18.:05:24.

less popular than journalists, politicians and estate agents.

:05:24.:05:34.

Knotty state agents! Don't be ridiculous! -- not estate agents!

:05:34.:05:39.

Miliband got the answer, yes. Will you do this? Yes. You do not want

:05:39.:05:45.

that. On another note, I think this is the first time in many, many,

:05:45.:05:50.

many weeks, where there is not a single critical question to the

:05:50.:05:55.

Prime Minister from a conservative. The most empty as you has to

:05:55.:06:03.

question, praising him for a European referendum, welfare reform

:06:03.:06:08.

and academies, was done by the man who has just been made Sir Edward

:06:08.:06:17.

Leigh. Amazing times.It is quite striking, because, week after week

:06:17.:06:21.

he has faced really difficult questions from his own side. Maybe

:06:21.:06:25.

it is because the gay marriage bill has moved out of the comments to the

:06:25.:06:29.

Lords, or perhaps because Tory backbenchers are excited by the

:06:29.:06:38.

Director Rendon bill in the House of Commons which will be dilated on

:06:38.:06:47.

July the 5th, I'm not sure? -- excited by the Referendum Bill. .

:06:47.:06:51.

Financial services are among the top five things that this country is a

:06:51.:06:59.

world leader in. We have already lost about 200,000 300,000 jobs in

:06:59.:07:05.

financial services since the crash of 2008. Barely a week goes by

:07:05.:07:08.

without a bank announcing another 2000 or 3000 well-paid jobs are

:07:08.:07:14.

going. You want to tell bankers that if they are found guilty of

:07:14.:07:24.
:07:24.:07:25.

misconduct, they could go to jail, although it is yet -- not yet clear

:07:25.:07:30.

how long they will have to wait for their bonus. Why don't they just go

:07:30.:07:35.

elsewhere? We are the country where no one has gone to prison, which is

:07:35.:07:43.

unusual. They certainly did in New York. In the States, people get hold

:07:43.:07:53.

up all the time. Yeah, but not for the crash. We believe the economy

:07:53.:07:57.

should be balanced. We want a strong City, and I totally agree with Boris

:07:57.:08:02.

Johnson, we want this City to be strong, but not at the cost of the

:08:02.:08:06.

people. That means you need proper regulation. And when somebody does

:08:06.:08:12.

something so outrageous that it affects lots of people's lives and

:08:12.:08:18.

livelihoods... Such as what?Some of the stuff we have seen such as LIBOR

:08:18.:08:25.

and financial reform. Fiddling live there is already a rough -- already

:08:25.:08:34.

an offence. I think people are about to be arrested on this. I think if

:08:34.:08:37.

anyone would like to step back and look at what has gone on in the

:08:37.:08:43.

City, all the different offences, from what happened at HSBC, at a

:08:43.:08:53.
:08:53.:08:54.

LIBOR, with the financial crust, -- the financial crash, and nobody has

:08:54.:08:56.

taken responsibility. Economists will tell you that in any economy

:08:56.:09:00.

you should use resources as best you can, and it is possible for them to

:09:00.:09:05.

end up in the wrong place. We came into government saying that we want

:09:05.:09:09.

to rebalance this economy, and we have more people in work than ever

:09:09.:09:14.

before, despite the economic Times being tough, because we have allowed

:09:14.:09:20.

some of the rebalancing to take place. As Nick Clegg admitted to me,

:09:20.:09:24.

it has not happened. As a percentage of GDP, manufacturing, construction

:09:24.:09:34.
:09:34.:09:35.

is still... I was asked by Ed to do quite a lot of work into City crime.

:09:35.:09:38.

I was looking at working on an economic crime bill. One of the

:09:38.:09:43.

problems we have got is that if an individual behaves in a fraudulent

:09:43.:09:50.

way within a company, it is difficult to prosecute the company

:09:50.:09:53.

as a whole. You can get an individual defrauding others for the

:09:53.:09:55.

sake of the company, the company is not prosecuted. In the United

:09:55.:10:00.

States, which we do not have here, we do not have a large fines for

:10:00.:10:07.

individuals behaving for companies. We should be looking at increasing

:10:07.:10:11.

the fines, putting them back into the fraud office, who can start

:10:11.:10:16.

doing real prosecutions. The problem with fraud as you tend not to have a

:10:16.:10:23.

dead body or a blood Trail, it is difficult to get prosecutions going.

:10:23.:10:27.

We launched that on Friday. The ideas from today are very

:10:27.:10:30.

interesting. We need to look at it carefully and make sure we are

:10:30.:10:34.

effective. One of the reasons you can get an agreement from both sides

:10:34.:10:39.

is that we all know something needs to be done. We need to be careful

:10:39.:10:43.

that it is not a George Osborne spin, and that we need to toughen it

:10:43.:10:53.
:10:53.:10:58.

up. Because Labour would never spin banking is an offence. We need to

:10:58.:11:00.

make sure that we do it well. The last thing we want is to pass

:11:00.:11:04.

legislation for the sake of it, looking at it as window dressing. We

:11:04.:11:12.

have to change the corporate culture. You have had your say.

:11:12.:11:15.

Politicians on all sides read in the opinion polls, they hear from their

:11:15.:11:20.

constituents, they want the equivalent of the thing in a crime

:11:20.:11:25.

show where you off was to walk to the police station in America, a

:11:25.:11:33.

want somebody to do that. But I think in Britain, the perp walk is

:11:33.:11:37.

facing the Treasury select committee, or the ultimate sanction,

:11:37.:11:44.

we will take your knighthood off you! That'll teach them! People are

:11:44.:11:52.

so fed up. I don't agree with Nick Clegg that the economy is not

:11:52.:11:58.

rebalancing, if that is what he told you. We have 600,000 fewer people

:11:58.:12:02.

working in the public sector, 1.2 million more in the private sector.

:12:02.:12:06.

It is easy to bandy around manufacturing figures without

:12:06.:12:11.

recognising that manufacturing is being more efficient, it is

:12:11.:12:17.

producing great output. I am talking about a percentage of GDP. That does

:12:17.:12:23.

not take into account the total amount of stuff being manufactured.

:12:23.:12:30.

Unless the manufacturer takes a bigger share of GDP? This country is

:12:30.:12:36.

manufacturing more in absolute terms and is bigger than before. Not as a

:12:36.:12:42.

percentage of GDP, as the total that you manufacturer. Then it is good

:12:42.:12:47.

for manufacturing, but it is not rebalancing. Reign will you break up

:12:47.:12:57.

RBS? In response to the people saying that they just showed at each

:12:57.:13:06.

other. .1, they watch it. I have a five-year waiting list of

:13:06.:13:16.

constituents wanting to come to Prime Minister's Questions. Can we

:13:16.:13:23.

see the family photo from the G8? The dress code! Let's see what they

:13:23.:13:29.

should really look like. Much more stylish. Angela Merkel's is

:13:29.:13:38.

particularly fetching. What was this business of not wearing ties? Did Mr

:13:38.:13:45.

Cameron spread it about? There was definitely a dress code, President

:13:45.:13:49.

Putin recognised it when he got off the plane in jeans and a casual

:13:49.:13:54.

shirt. There is an element that is reasonable about it, but something

:13:54.:13:58.

was serious and a bit different. The original idea of the G8 was that

:13:58.:14:04.

leaders would get round a table, look each other in the eye and talk,

:14:04.:14:08.

nobody else was in the room. It has become a massive jamboree. David

:14:08.:14:13.

Cameron was trying to make it more like that. It was striking when you

:14:13.:14:18.

saw the pictures that the table they were sitting around, ten, the two EU

:14:18.:14:22.

presidents, was not much bigger than this. There were not other people in

:14:22.:14:30.

the room. Did they achieve anything more as a result? What about Syria?

:14:30.:14:37.

What did they do? They are just papering over the cracks. He talked

:14:37.:14:43.

it up, the Prime Minister said, we will sort out Syria. What do you

:14:43.:14:53.
:14:53.:14:54.

want him to do? You don't want him to... What do you want him to do?We

:14:54.:15:00.

think that you need to talk to the Russians about assuring... Just look

:15:00.:15:05.

at the face of President Putin. Do you think he was charmed and brought

:15:05.:15:08.

on board, whether or not he was wearing a tie or sitting at a nice

:15:08.:15:13.

table? You can hardly blame the British Prime Minister for Mr

:15:13.:15:22.

Putin's face. I can blame him for saying, we will sort out Syria, and

:15:22.:15:27.

doing nothing. And then all we do afterwards is talk about the ties

:15:27.:15:30.

and the tables. You are doing the best you can, with very little

:15:30.:15:37.

material. I was just baffled that you criticised him on Syria, when I

:15:37.:15:40.

sat in a statement on Syria and officially the position of the

:15:41.:15:46.

Labour Party was what he should not do. I don't remember them suggesting

:15:46.:15:50.

an alternative. I am sure that if Ed Miliband was there, Mr Putin would

:15:50.:15:59.

have been eating out of the palm of his hand. The question they really

:15:59.:16:04.

had to face is, was it worth keeping Putin on board? Was it more

:16:04.:16:08.

powerful, the statement, without putting? Camera made the compromise.

:16:08.:16:15.

I asked him about it, and he said he had not done so, but he had clearly

:16:15.:16:22.

watered down the words to keep Putin on board. Pharmaceutical companies

:16:22.:16:26.

do not have to reveal the results of all the trials they have done. So,

:16:26.:16:30.

much of the time, negative findings go unreported, leaving doctors and

:16:30.:16:35.

researchers in the dark. In his soapbox, the writer and medical Dr

:16:36.:16:45.
:16:46.:17:07.

Ben Goldacre explains why he wants scientific evidence to help us make

:17:07.:17:12.

informed decisions about which treatment is best for the patient.

:17:12.:17:16.

For this, we use randomised controlled trials, fair test 's,

:17:16.:17:19.

comparing one treatment against another. But there is a problem.

:17:19.:17:23.

Since the mid-19 80s, we have known that the results of these trials are

:17:23.:17:30.

routinely withheld from doctors, researchers, patients and payers,

:17:30.:17:33.

buried in document storage archives like this. The best currently

:17:33.:17:39.

available evidence from the guest study, summarising all the studies

:17:39.:17:42.

that have been done on missing data, suggest that around half of all

:17:42.:17:46.

trials which have been on medicines that we use today have never been

:17:46.:17:50.

published. They are buried in storage boxes like these. Worse than

:17:50.:17:56.

that, trials with positive results are about twice as likely to be

:17:56.:17:59.

published as trials with negative results. This week, the Public

:17:59.:18:04.

Accounts Committee are looking at the issue. I gave evidence on

:18:04.:18:10.

Monday. The UK government spends �12 billion a year on its drugs budget.

:18:10.:18:15.

We spent half �1 billion a year on Tom Flynn, one drug alone, and yet,

:18:16.:18:18.

the company withheld vitally important information on the results

:18:18.:18:24.

of clinical trials. More amazingly than that, in doing so, they broke

:18:24.:18:31.

no law. This is a huge medical policy line spot which has been

:18:31.:18:37.

neglect did by politicians and senior doctors alike for many

:18:37.:18:41.

decades. That is why, with colleagues, I have had to start a

:18:41.:18:46.

public campaign. The petition now has the support of more than 50,000

:18:46.:18:50.

members of the general public, more than 100 patient groups, and,

:18:50.:18:55.

belatedly, almost all the academic and medical professional bodies in

:18:55.:18:59.

the UK. Even GS K, the biggest drug company in the country, have signed

:18:59.:19:09.

up. We need the full methods and results of all the trials that have

:19:09.:19:12.

been conduct did from all of the treatments that we use today, to

:19:12.:19:18.

make informed decisions. And we need politicians to understand why that

:19:18.:19:26.

matters. Dr Ben Goldacre joins us now. Do you know why the decision

:19:26.:19:31.

was made to retain the withhold the results of clinical trials? You say

:19:31.:19:35.

it has been done since the middle of the 1980s. It has been done for

:19:35.:19:41.

ever. It is a cultural blindspot, a historical anomaly. The bull had the

:19:41.:19:44.

strange idea that if you did a trial and it found no difference between

:19:44.:19:47.

the new treat and and the old treatment, then it was not

:19:47.:19:51.

scientifically interesting. I think that is where it again. But it

:19:51.:19:56.

snowballed from there to become a huge systemic album. We have known

:19:56.:20:00.

about this since the 1980s. We know that about half of all trials never

:20:00.:20:07.

get published. So, how can a doctor truthfully prescribed drugs if he or

:20:07.:20:10.

she does not know the full facts of the trials that have been carried

:20:10.:20:16.

out on that drug? That is the core of this problem. Overall, with a lot

:20:16.:20:21.

of experience in writing about the blooms in medicine, I think it is

:20:21.:20:24.

unusual that drugs come to market doing more harm than good. What we

:20:24.:20:27.

are talking about is whether or not we know the absolute best available

:20:27.:20:32.

treatment. If there is one drug that saves eight lives out of 100, and

:20:32.:20:39.

another saves six, we want everybody to have the one that saves eight.

:20:39.:20:43.

play devils advocate, you could say that if you made this oblique, you

:20:44.:20:48.

would be making everybody a pseudo- doctor, going online, so should it

:20:48.:20:58.
:20:58.:21:00.

not be left to the experts? -- if you made this online. The reality is

:21:00.:21:06.

that there are lots of organisations around the world, nonprofit bodies,

:21:06.:21:08.

who summarise the evidence and produce gold standard summaries,

:21:09.:21:15.

which docked tours and patients can use to decide the best treatment. We

:21:15.:21:18.

cannot expect that they are not going to be able to have access to

:21:19.:21:22.

this information, or that they are only allowed to see the most

:21:22.:21:28.

flattering half of that information. That is not how science works. Do

:21:28.:21:30.

you agree that actually, all of these clinical trial results should

:21:30.:21:40.
:21:40.:21:42.

be open and given to doctors, researchers and patients? I think it

:21:42.:21:52.
:21:52.:21:54.

is right that not even NICE GET THESE RESULTS, IS THAT RIGHT?

:21:54.:22:00.

Actually, the European agency had a damning report of a finding by the

:22:00.:22:03.

European ombudsman, after which they were forced to start releasing

:22:03.:22:07.

clinical study reports that they had, not all of them, but at least

:22:07.:22:14.

more. But loophole was closed just two weeks ago. Would you put

:22:14.:22:20.

pressure on companies to reveal it? I think it is the right thing to do.

:22:20.:22:26.

But in order to make it effective, we have to do it internationally.

:22:26.:22:32.

Europe is big enough, I think, to be able to start putting pressure on

:22:32.:22:36.

internationally. We do not want drugs companies to say, you are

:22:36.:22:42.

making life difficult for us, let's all clear after Brazil. I think it

:22:42.:22:47.

is a brilliant piece of research, and we are in relation to our

:22:47.:22:52.

earlier , station about transparency, this is surely the

:22:52.:23:02.
:23:02.:23:07.

definition of that. So, will you make them do it? It is an amazing

:23:07.:23:12.

piece of research, and I will speak to my colleagues and we should take

:23:12.:23:21.

it forward. We have a quote - we firmly believe that health

:23:21.:23:23.

authorities need to remain the gate keeper for drugs approval - in other

:23:23.:23:28.

words, we are not going to do it. will certainly undertake to speak to

:23:28.:23:33.

the Health Secretary, Jeremy Hunt about it. You can imagine in

:23:33.:23:36.

previous decades, people did not even think about this stuff. But

:23:36.:23:46.
:23:46.:23:46.

nowadays, it is different. If they do not want to publish trials, you

:23:46.:23:50.

have put a lot of money into trials, and they do not give the results you

:23:50.:23:55.

want, they are not going to want to publish them. So why would your

:23:55.:23:58.

company remain in your constituency if you were forcing them to do

:23:58.:24:01.

that? Clearly it would have to be done by agreement across the

:24:01.:24:05.

industry, as you say. But there is no reason why David could not get

:24:05.:24:13.

together to do this. There is a long and dismal history of voluntary

:24:13.:24:18.

codes of conduct which are unenforced and unaudited and

:24:18.:24:22.

riddled, to be honest, deliberately, with loopholes. I would welcome any

:24:22.:24:26.

lobbying advice you have, and I would like advice on how to get this

:24:26.:24:30.

fixed, as I find it amazing that there are things we can do in the

:24:30.:24:35.

immediate short-term, like, for example, the UK government could

:24:35.:24:38.

strongly lobby the European agency to bring this to the European court

:24:38.:24:44.

of justice, to get this to be more transparent. But also, to have

:24:44.:24:47.

politicians making a clear statement that drug companies and researchers

:24:47.:24:53.

have to work harder on this. There is the statement, Grant Shapps, you

:24:53.:24:59.

can have that. Now, the part of the programme that makes things happen.

:24:59.:25:02.

If you run a major NHS trust at a time of unprecedented financial

:25:02.:25:06.

pressures, and you are worried about the physical fitness of your staff,

:25:06.:25:10.

you might want to help initiate an exercise campaign. But what do you

:25:10.:25:20.
:25:20.:25:52.

# Is this the Way to Amarillo... Was Superman was played by Phil Morley,

:25:52.:25:57.

the Chief Executive of Hull and East Yorkshire NHS Trust, and he has

:25:57.:26:02.

caused controversy with his office exercise campaign. Staff have been

:26:02.:26:07.

quoted as saying it was patronising and embarrassing. They found that he

:26:07.:26:13.

was out of touch, but how did they work that out? ! What is the most

:26:13.:26:20.

embarrassing thing you have done in public? Singing. I always seem. That

:26:20.:26:30.
:26:30.:26:31.

is what I do. On you go, carry on. No, please, I was singing along

:26:31.:26:41.
:26:41.:26:42.

earlier. You represent Islington, so you have that karaoke bar. I love

:26:42.:26:49.

karaoke, and I love that bar. myself have never done anything

:26:49.:26:59.
:26:59.:27:20.

embarrassing in public, I am sure of They have obviously got a copyleft.

:27:20.:27:28.

But you do that every time you leave the studio! I think that was one of

:27:28.:27:38.

our most senior producers. Anyway, just time to put you out of your

:27:38.:27:42.

misery, and find the answer to our guest the year competition. It was

:27:42.:27:48.

1974. The clue was the petrol queues, which meant it could have

:27:48.:27:54.

been 1979 as well, but there were other things in the film which

:27:54.:27:58.

showed it was 1974, a pretty miserable year, certainly if you

:27:58.:28:03.

were a political journalist, although there were two elections,

:28:03.:28:07.

one in February, and one in October. There was really no distinct outcome

:28:07.:28:13.

for either, but Labour ended up the largest party in both. Anything else

:28:13.:28:18.

you would like to know about 1974? No, but we would like to know who

:28:18.:28:27.

the winner is. If you just best that button... -- press that button.

:28:27.:28:33.

Robert Taggart in Cheshire. Congratulations. Thanks to all of

:28:33.:28:39.

our guests. The one o'clock News is starting over on BBC One. I am not

:28:39.:28:46.

here tomorrow, I have got to go to Prague. I am flying solo. Gyles

:28:46.:28:50.

Andrew Neil and Jo Coburn with live coverage of Prime Minister's Questions and the latest political news, with Conservative Party Chairman Grant Shapps and Shadow Health Secretary Andy Burnham.

The Guess the Year competition closes at 12.30pm during the live broadcast of this programme.


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