Browse content similar to 20/09/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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That alone. Welcome to the Daily Politics. Gordon Brown's chief spin | :00:43. | :00:49. | |
doctor reveals the dark arts that Brownites used to bring down there | :00:49. | :00:55. | |
Blairite enemies. Revelations have been timed to cause maximum damage. | :00:55. | :00:58. | |
They come on the eve of the Labour conference after Ed Miliband has had | :00:58. | :01:01. | |
a miserable summer and Labour have slumped in the polls. | :01:01. | :01:07. | |
It is Nigel Farage's turn to take to the stage as UKIP hold their | :01:07. | :01:11. | |
conference. There are new policies but also negative headlines as the | :01:11. | :01:15. | |
party comes under greater scrutiny. And never deprive a German of his | :01:15. | :01:21. | |
sausage. How the humble wurst has become a big issue in Sunday's | :01:21. | :01:31. | |
federal elections. That is coming up in the next hour. | :01:31. | :01:37. | |
Public service broadcasting at its finest. With us for the duration, | :01:37. | :01:43. | |
Hugo Rifkind of the Spectator and Carla Buzasi of the Huffington Post. | :01:43. | :01:48. | |
Let us start, where? I know, Damian McBride. He was Gordon Brown's spin | :01:48. | :01:54. | |
doctor at the Treasury and then at Number Ten before being forced to | :01:54. | :01:59. | |
resign in disgrace in 2009 over e-mails discussing possible smear | :01:59. | :02:04. | |
stories about Tory ministers. But he had done plenty of smearing on his | :02:04. | :02:05. | |
own before that. In his book, had done plenty of smearing on his | :02:05. | :02:11. | |
serialised in the Daily Mail today, he lays bare the dark arts he | :02:11. | :02:14. | |
employed at the heart of Gordon Brown's political operation. He | :02:14. | :02:20. | |
admits that he already had: Setting out to destroy any potential | :02:20. | :02:36. | |
rival to Gordon Brown becoming Prime Minister. One rival was John Reid. | :02:36. | :02:41. | |
Mr McBride says that he unearthed his black book of stories about John | :02:41. | :02:45. | |
Reid from the 80s and the early 90s, and fed them to the press until | :02:45. | :02:49. | |
John Reid announced that he would be resigning. At which point, Damian | :02:49. | :02:54. | |
McBride was told that he could call off the dogs now. With another | :02:54. | :02:59. | |
rival, Charles clerk, Esther McBride claims that he briefed from a | :02:59. | :03:04. | |
confidential and restricted documents to orchestrate what looked | :03:04. | :03:07. | |
like a briefing war. A junior minister, Ivan Lewis, stood up to | :03:07. | :03:16. | |
this worrying to this -- stood up to this bullying from Mr McBride but he | :03:16. | :03:19. | |
decided he was going to get an iron fist in return. He proceeded to leak | :03:19. | :03:24. | |
a story to the press about Mr Lewis's supposed pestering of a | :03:24. | :03:25. | |
female civil servant. He says: On whether Gordon Brown knew or | :03:26. | :03:41. | |
approved of his behaviour, Damien McBride says: | :03:41. | :03:53. | |
Joining us now is Lance Price, who worked at Number Ten on the other | :03:53. | :04:01. | |
side, that is with Tony Blair. And in a moment, we will join Hilary | :04:01. | :04:06. | |
Benn two. What did you make of this? In terms of the allegations, what is | :04:06. | :04:12. | |
interesting is that Damian McBride has fessed up and said that he was | :04:12. | :04:16. | |
doing this. We knew that this was going on. Most journalists in West | :04:16. | :04:20. | |
Minister knew that it was going on because they were at the recipients | :04:20. | :04:24. | |
of this stuff. But now we have it confirmed on the question is whether | :04:24. | :04:29. | |
or not the Labour Party can know that it was in the past and we have | :04:29. | :04:32. | |
learned our lessons. It was a terrible period that damaged | :04:32. | :04:36. | |
everybody and politics has changed. He says he was sucked in like a | :04:36. | :04:40. | |
concubine at an or G. Did that happen to you? Did that happen at | :04:40. | :04:47. | |
Number Ten? I think it is a metaphor. There was bitterness on | :04:47. | :04:54. | |
both sides but it was not six of one and half a dozen of the other. | :04:54. | :04:57. | |
Although people are reluctant to believe it, the fact is that Tony | :04:57. | :05:02. | |
Blair had less reason to indulge in this because he had already got the | :05:02. | :05:08. | |
job. He was the Prime Minister. And he had Alistair Campbell doing his | :05:08. | :05:13. | |
work. But he did not get up to this kind of stuff. Let's go to Hilary | :05:13. | :05:21. | |
Benn, in our Leeds studio. Welcome to the Daily Politics. Good | :05:21. | :05:28. | |
afternoon. It turns out that it was Labour who were the nasty party, not | :05:28. | :05:34. | |
the Tories. If you are referring to Damian McBride's book, this is the | :05:34. | :05:40. | |
past, and we have changed. We are a different party now, with a | :05:40. | :05:44. | |
different leadership. Think this is a postscript on what happened | :05:44. | :05:52. | |
before. It is not really relevant. How do we know that you have changed | :05:52. | :05:56. | |
when Miliband and Ed Balls were at the heart of the project when this | :05:56. | :05:59. | |
was going on? Whatever happened in the past happened in the past. Under | :05:59. | :06:04. | |
Ed Miliband, we are a different party. Frankly, my constituents in | :06:04. | :06:09. | |
Leeds, people looking forward to the Labour Party conference that is | :06:09. | :06:11. | |
coming up, they are not interested in that. They want to know, giving | :06:12. | :06:16. | |
the crisis that they are dealing with day in and day out, whose side | :06:16. | :06:21. | |
are the major political parties on. And they think the dividing line in | :06:21. | :06:24. | |
British politics is becoming very clear. We have a Prime Minister who | :06:24. | :06:29. | |
thinks that tax cuts for the unions is the most important thing, while | :06:29. | :06:33. | |
imposing increased costs on people on low incomes. And Ed Miliband is | :06:33. | :06:37. | |
about helping the squeezed middle, ring back the 10p rate of tax, | :06:37. | :06:40. | |
finding jobs for young people who are unemployed long-term. Those are | :06:40. | :06:44. | |
the big issues and debates in British politics. I think voters | :06:44. | :06:52. | |
want to know about the morality of the people that they are electing. | :06:52. | :06:56. | |
And this is about a Prime Minister who employed Damian McBride, who | :06:56. | :07:00. | |
constantly lectured us on his moral compass. And yet we see that under | :07:00. | :07:05. | |
his watch, he unleashes the most terrible smears, not against the | :07:05. | :07:10. | |
Tories, but against his own side. We have a right to know and discuss and | :07:10. | :07:15. | |
talk about that when politicians posture about the moral positions. I | :07:15. | :07:18. | |
talk about that when politicians am not interested in posturing. In | :07:18. | :07:25. | |
the past, what has happened has been written about by just about | :07:25. | :07:29. | |
everyone. It is only a few years ago, Hilary Benn. It is not Benjamin | :07:29. | :07:35. | |
Disraeli. Some of what happened was pretty an edifying but it is a poor | :07:35. | :07:40. | |
script on the past. We are looking for to the conference. -- | :07:40. | :07:45. | |
postscript. The concerns of the British people are not what you are | :07:45. | :07:49. | |
getting excited about. It is about what is happening in their lives | :07:49. | :07:54. | |
now. For 38 of the 39 months that David Cameron has been Prime | :07:54. | :07:57. | |
Minister, wages have not gone up as much as prices. People are finding | :07:57. | :08:02. | |
it very tough. What are they are longing to hear from political | :08:02. | :08:06. | |
leaders is that this is how a future Labour government is going to help | :08:06. | :08:10. | |
you. That is what we will be focusing on. I will come onto that | :08:10. | :08:13. | |
in a minute but you keep saying the House changed. We have no evidence | :08:13. | :08:18. | |
for that. It is the same gang running it, who were at the heart of | :08:18. | :08:21. | |
this operation when Mr McBride was spreading his poison. And we now | :08:21. | :08:28. | |
know that Ed Miliband was Gordon Brown's anointed successor. He is | :08:28. | :08:31. | |
the one that he wanted. So why do we know that things have changed? How | :08:32. | :08:37. | |
do we know that this sort of stuff, this amoral approach to your own | :08:37. | :08:42. | |
side, is not still going on? For the simple reason that you read the same | :08:42. | :08:47. | |
newspapers I've read. You do not find any of that in the last few | :08:47. | :08:54. | |
years. -- Irene. Ed Miliband is a new leader and this is a new party. | :08:54. | :08:58. | |
We have learned from the lessons of the past. The truth is, you know | :08:58. | :09:04. | |
that to be the case as much as I do. Have you ever been briefed against | :09:04. | :09:08. | |
by Damian McBride? Have no idea what he did in relation to me. And I am | :09:08. | :09:13. | |
not interested. -- I have no idea. At the time, I was getting on with | :09:14. | :09:18. | |
my job, which is what ministers do. What's the shadow cabinet is focused | :09:19. | :09:23. | |
on now is what will we do to help the country recover. I'll understand | :09:23. | :09:28. | |
entirely why you want to ask these questions because some people get | :09:28. | :09:34. | |
very excited about this, what is the past and not about the politics of | :09:34. | :09:40. | |
the future. -- but it is the past. Excited is the wrong word. Express | :09:41. | :09:43. | |
than dismayed that this could be happening at the heart of our | :09:43. | :09:47. | |
politics, among people who we are paying to run the country. Our tax | :09:47. | :09:53. | |
dollars pay these people's salaries. Instead of using it to make a better | :09:53. | :09:59. | |
country, they use it to rubbish their own side. Before I come onto | :09:59. | :10:05. | |
the conference next week, are we seriously expected to believe that | :10:05. | :10:10. | |
neither Mr Brown, nor Mr Miliband, nor Mr Ed Balls new that any of this | :10:10. | :10:24. | |
was going on? -- knew. As they understand it, that is what Damian | :10:24. | :10:28. | |
McBride says. In the end, you lost his job. -- as I understand it. But | :10:28. | :10:36. | |
that was a long time ago. He only lost it because he was rumbled. He | :10:36. | :10:40. | |
could have carried on. He wanted to do to the Tories what he had been | :10:40. | :10:45. | |
doing to his own side for years. This could not come at a worse time | :10:45. | :10:49. | |
for you. Indeed, the run-up to the conference is a shambles. The | :10:49. | :10:53. | |
opinion poll ratings have collapsed, you are barely ahead of the Tories | :10:53. | :10:57. | |
now. Despite this squeeze on living standards. Only 2% of the country | :10:57. | :11:02. | |
regard Ed Miliband as a natural leader. And now we have all this | :11:02. | :11:08. | |
stuff dragged up from the past to remind us what you were like in | :11:08. | :11:12. | |
power. It is hard to think of a grim backdrop for the conference. -- | :11:12. | :11:25. | |
grimmer. At you what is -- I tell you what is grim. Life for ordinary | :11:25. | :11:31. | |
people. That is what is grim. People are going to be asking themselves | :11:31. | :11:37. | |
the question, insofar as they follow the details of party conferences, | :11:37. | :11:40. | |
they will be saying to themselves, which party leader or government | :11:40. | :11:44. | |
that we lacked in 2015 is going to be on our side. That is the | :11:44. | :11:51. | |
fundamental choice. The Prime Minister, the coalition, has shot | :11:51. | :11:55. | |
itself to be on the side of the few also honestly, you could not ask for | :11:55. | :11:59. | |
better example than the decision to cut taxes for millionaires and those | :11:59. | :12:05. | |
who are most well-off. But they are still paying more tax in the 13 | :12:05. | :12:13. | |
years -- than in the 13 years you were in power. They are paying 45%, | :12:13. | :12:16. | |
more than when you were in government. That is not correct. We | :12:16. | :12:24. | |
introduced the 50p tax rate. In the final three weeks of the government. | :12:24. | :12:28. | |
It is ridiculous. In the final three weeks. it is a fact. The reason we | :12:28. | :12:33. | |
did that is because of the state of the economy. If you believe that | :12:33. | :12:36. | |
those with the broadest shoulders could bear the biggest burden, as | :12:36. | :12:40. | |
the Prime Minister claims, well, we believe that and that is why we | :12:41. | :12:44. | |
introduced that tax rate. And he comes in and he says, given what is | :12:44. | :12:48. | |
going on, the most important thing for the budget in April is that we | :12:48. | :12:52. | |
are going to cut that top rate of tax. And what are we talking about? | :12:52. | :12:55. | |
Reintroducing the 10p tax rate, hopping young people, the long-term | :12:55. | :13:03. | |
unemployed, get a job, helping with energy prices. -- helping young | :13:03. | :13:08. | |
people. And think it is on those issues that people will make their | :13:08. | :13:13. | |
judgement at the next election. It is interesting that you want a tax | :13:13. | :13:17. | |
on people who are working hard, who are adding to the wealth of the | :13:17. | :13:21. | |
nation and jobs. You want to take 50% of their income away, but people | :13:21. | :13:24. | |
nation and jobs. You want to take like you, who are wealthy because | :13:24. | :13:28. | |
you have got lots of wealthy assets, you do not pay the 50p tax rate. And | :13:28. | :13:33. | |
you are not creating jobs. And you are not adding to the wealth of the | :13:33. | :13:38. | |
nation. Is that there? I am not sure what your point is. -- is that | :13:38. | :13:43. | |
fair. In government, we felt that the 50p tax rate was the thing to | :13:43. | :13:48. | |
do. We opposed the decision that the government took to cut that tax | :13:48. | :13:52. | |
rate, as they did in April. At a time when lots and lots of other | :13:52. | :13:57. | |
people, working very hard, contributed to the economy, are | :13:57. | :14:00. | |
themselves being squeezed. -- contributing to. That is a sign of | :14:00. | :14:06. | |
the government's values. The fact that we say we would do things | :14:07. | :14:10. | |
differently is a clear difference. My final question, the recovery is | :14:10. | :14:16. | |
barely underway. As you say, lots of people have yet to feel it. Yet | :14:16. | :14:20. | |
already the Tories are neck and neck with you in the polls. What happens | :14:20. | :14:26. | |
when, as the OECD is predicting, the economy is heading for 3% growth? | :14:26. | :14:33. | |
What happens to poll ratings then? The poll that matters is the next | :14:33. | :14:38. | |
election. I have never heard that phrase before(!) The thing to do is | :14:38. | :14:48. | |
what Ed Miliband is doing, which is to set out what it is we believe in. | :14:48. | :14:53. | |
And we are the party that is concerned about the squeeze on | :14:53. | :14:56. | |
living standards. The question is, how is the recovery going to be | :14:56. | :15:00. | |
shared? Are we going to learn the lessons from what happened over the | :15:00. | :15:04. | |
last 20 or 30 years? Ed Miliband has shown that he is the leader who | :15:04. | :15:07. | |
understands that and you will see that very clearly in what he has to | :15:07. | :15:11. | |
say next week and in the debates that we shall have at the | :15:11. | :15:13. | |
conference, which I'm looking forward to. I think of nothing else. | :15:13. | :15:23. | |
It is keeping me awake at night with excitement(!) Get some rest. The | :15:23. | :15:30. | |
giver joining us. -- thank you for joining us. What are the | :15:30. | :15:32. | |
applications, the political fallout of these revelations? | :15:32. | :15:39. | |
It makes the general population not trust politicians. They are worrying | :15:39. | :15:47. | |
journalists are being spoon-fed by spin doctors, no analysis is going | :15:48. | :15:54. | |
on. So, who do you trust? It is a precarious position. | :15:54. | :15:57. | |
When we reported these sorts of things, not in that detail, when we | :15:57. | :16:06. | |
reported that the Tony Blair-Gordon Brown relationship was toxic, other | :16:06. | :16:10. | |
than the voters, the Cabinet ministers, there was the claim that | :16:10. | :16:22. | |
we were making it up. This book is fascinating. Most | :16:22. | :16:27. | |
political memoirs are about settling scores. He has revealed all his | :16:27. | :16:33. | |
crimes. Hilary Benn is right when he talked about this being in the past. | :16:34. | :16:41. | |
The monster has one. All the targets have gone, Charles Clarke, John | :16:41. | :16:52. | |
Reid, David Miliband... You have a Labour Party dominated by Brownites. | :16:52. | :17:04. | |
To be fair to Alan Lewis, he is in the Shadow Cabinet. He is one of the | :17:04. | :17:08. | |
survivors. What do you think? It surely beggars | :17:08. | :17:16. | |
belief that Mr Brown didn't know this was going on. Gordon Brown was | :17:16. | :17:21. | |
an avid reader of newspapers. He would always ask where stories came | :17:21. | :17:26. | |
from and it was patently obvious. Obvious to everybody. Gordon Brown | :17:26. | :17:33. | |
cannot claim not to have known what was going on, frankly, neither can | :17:33. | :17:44. | |
Ed Balls nor Ed Miliband. But, they knew what Damian McBride was up to | :17:44. | :17:48. | |
Ed Balls nor Ed Miliband. But, they and what was going on with the | :17:48. | :17:50. | |
Ed Balls nor Ed Miliband. But, they media. Whether they approved or not, | :17:50. | :17:56. | |
they were complicit. Art, the party has changed. You agree with Hilary | :17:56. | :18:02. | |
Benn? If you think about how divisive the leadership election | :18:02. | :18:06. | |
was, that could have resulted in a rerun of the whole thing, and it | :18:06. | :18:12. | |
hasn't. They have been less divided after that defeat. | :18:12. | :18:17. | |
hasn't. They have been less divided It is always good to talk to you. | :18:17. | :18:20. | |
Are you ready for the German election? That's right, Germans go | :18:20. | :18:25. | |
to the polls on Sunday to decide whether to re-elect Frau Merkel as | :18:25. | :18:30. | |
Chancellor. Haven't been following it all in Die Zeit or Der Spiegel? | :18:30. | :18:34. | |
Don't worry, here's your cut out and keep guide. | :18:34. | :18:49. | |
Germany, the most populous country in Europe, the richest and most | :18:49. | :18:56. | |
powerful. It has ? parts of Europe and is essential to driving it out | :18:56. | :18:59. | |
of recession. That's why the election results matter a lot. | :18:59. | :19:04. | |
Angela Merkel has been at the helm for eight years and wants another | :19:04. | :19:10. | |
go. In that time, the economy has boomed, unemployment has tumbled, | :19:10. | :19:14. | |
Germany has become a magnet for job seekers. Opponents say the | :19:14. | :19:18. | |
Chancellor is reaping the benefits of tough labour reforms brought in | :19:18. | :19:22. | |
before she even came to power. Now, she is imposing those same reforms | :19:22. | :19:27. | |
on other countries, despite in parts of Europe where she is blamed for | :19:27. | :19:33. | |
austerity. But admired by many Germans largely for the same reason, | :19:33. | :19:37. | |
which is why the polls say she will win again. Except it is not that | :19:37. | :19:42. | |
simple, German politics is about consensus, and Angela Merkel's | :19:42. | :19:49. | |
conservative Democrats will need a Conservative partner. She has | :19:49. | :19:51. | |
conservative Democrats will need a already been through a couple. That | :19:51. | :19:58. | |
coalition didn't get on. Then the liberal free Democrats, but again | :19:58. | :20:03. | |
the attraction faded fast. So, who could it be this time? The Liberals | :20:03. | :20:08. | |
again would be the closest match. Their boat has dropped so much they | :20:08. | :20:11. | |
might not even make it into Parliament. If that fails, what | :20:11. | :20:17. | |
about the social Democrats? They want a minimum wage, bad for | :20:17. | :20:21. | |
productivity things Mrs Merkel. Order Green Party which was to take | :20:21. | :20:26. | |
meat from the menu in work canteens one day a week. Too bossy, says the | :20:26. | :20:32. | |
Chancellor. What they really want is to win enough votes to go into | :20:32. | :20:36. | |
government together and push Angela Merkel off her perch. | :20:36. | :20:44. | |
There you go, everything you need to know in time for the German election | :20:44. | :20:49. | |
results which will get on Sunday. Joining us now from Berlin is Sudha | :20:49. | :20:53. | |
David-Wilp, an expert at the think-tank the German Marshall Fund. | :20:53. | :21:03. | |
It seems clear that Mrs Merkel is likely to stay as Chancellor. What | :21:03. | :21:08. | |
we don't know yet is with whom she will be in coalition. What's the | :21:08. | :21:13. | |
latest thinking? That is exactly right. As your | :21:13. | :21:17. | |
commentator mentioned, there are probably two choices for Chancellor | :21:17. | :21:23. | |
Merkel. She is leading in the polls against peer Steinbruck from the | :21:23. | :21:27. | |
opposition SDP, but she has two form a coalition government after Sunday. | :21:27. | :21:32. | |
The two choices are the FTP, the current government, but they may not | :21:33. | :21:38. | |
garner enough of the vote to form a majority with Angela Merkel and her | :21:38. | :21:45. | |
party. Or a grand coalition, a repeat of 2005. | :21:45. | :21:49. | |
What is the attraction of German voters to Chancellor Merkel? She is, | :21:49. | :21:56. | |
as I understand, Steinbruck, the Labour equivalent, hasn't really cut | :21:56. | :22:00. | |
through in this election. Mrs Merkel is the dominant figure in German | :22:00. | :22:04. | |
politics. Why? I think you are absolutely right, | :22:04. | :22:08. | |
the dominant figure in German politics and also in Europe, very | :22:08. | :22:13. | |
well admired across the Atlantic in the united states for example. She | :22:13. | :22:19. | |
just gives off this aura of calm and Germany is also doing very well, | :22:19. | :22:25. | |
compared to its neighbours. When you look at economic indicators. Germany | :22:25. | :22:29. | |
is looking the best it has been in 20 years in terms of unemployment, | :22:29. | :22:34. | |
for example. So... We seem to have lost our | :22:34. | :22:40. | |
picture there from Germany. We are back. I am sorry, we lost you a | :22:40. | :22:47. | |
little there. A number of decisions... We are glad we have got | :22:47. | :22:49. | |
little there. A number of you back. A number of decisions have | :22:49. | :22:55. | |
been put on hold this election, decisions which will affect Germany | :22:55. | :22:59. | |
and the rest of Europe. Assuming, in some form, Mrs Merkel remains | :22:59. | :23:05. | |
Chancellor, what happens after that? Yes, like any election, this | :23:05. | :23:10. | |
campaign has been about domestic issues. For example, minimum wage, | :23:10. | :23:16. | |
childcare opportunities, pension plans. Suddenly, the world is asking | :23:16. | :23:22. | |
about the Euro crisis and Germany's role in the middle east. | :23:22. | :23:32. | |
I am sorry, we seem to have some trouble with that line in Berlin. | :23:32. | :23:37. | |
I'm afraid we seem to have lost it all together which is disappointing, | :23:37. | :23:41. | |
such an interesting election taking place in Germany. And it will have | :23:41. | :23:48. | |
implications for us. If Mrs Merkel forms a collision with the Free | :23:48. | :23:53. | |
Democrats, they are a little bit more Eurosceptic. If she forms it | :23:53. | :23:58. | |
with the social Democrats, they are even more pro-European than Mrs | :23:58. | :24:04. | |
Merkel and her Christian Democrats. David Cameron is desperately hoping | :24:04. | :24:06. | |
it is the first coalition. She has David Cameron is desperately hoping | :24:06. | :24:12. | |
already hinted that she is in the market to talk about devolving some | :24:12. | :24:17. | |
powers that the EU has taken, this is what David Cameron wants, what | :24:17. | :24:22. | |
UKIP once, and does seem to be what the population as a whole head is | :24:22. | :24:26. | |
keen on having in a referendum. Lots of people think this. | :24:26. | :24:34. | |
A terribly dull campaign, probably the consequence of a rich and | :24:34. | :24:36. | |
prosperous largely satisfied country. | :24:36. | :24:43. | |
It all boils down ultimately to what the German vision of Europe turns | :24:43. | :24:49. | |
out to be. Merkel 's judgement by the desire to preserve the European | :24:49. | :24:53. | |
Union. Whether that means... She has talked about giving some powers | :24:53. | :24:58. | |
back. It may be Germany finally needs to embrace a looser union. | :24:58. | :25:03. | |
There are indications that is the road she would like to go down. If | :25:03. | :25:09. | |
the coalitions with the CSU and Free Democrats, the free-market party, | :25:09. | :25:15. | |
she may well be able to accommodate. But, if she has two form a grand | :25:15. | :25:20. | |
coalition with the social Democrats, which you can't rule out, if the | :25:20. | :25:24. | |
Free Democrats don't get any seats, the social Democrats will not let | :25:24. | :25:26. | |
her do that. the social Democrats will not let | :25:26. | :25:31. | |
The current thought in Germany is changing a lot. Germany is becoming | :25:31. | :25:38. | |
more sceptical of free movement. And the bruising experience of a | :25:38. | :25:41. | |
financial crisis, the German commitment to the Euro. German money | :25:41. | :25:48. | |
going everywhere else. A Eurosceptic pushing for a government means and | :25:48. | :25:57. | |
easier selling point. There is a Eurosceptic party. The | :25:57. | :26:01. | |
German UKIP. Although it is rather different from UKIP. | :26:01. | :26:09. | |
For me, I think it is important we have a woman leading the country. In | :26:09. | :26:15. | |
this day and age, the fact we have only one household female name is | :26:15. | :26:18. | |
leading a nation, for that reason alone. I think the Norwegians have a | :26:18. | :26:25. | |
female Prime Minister. I couldn't tell you the name. We will get to | :26:25. | :26:30. | |
know her. After the Lib Dems, and before | :26:30. | :26:34. | |
Labour head to Brighton, UKIP are in London this weekend for their | :26:34. | :26:37. | |
conference. Just months shy of Euro elections, they hope to come first | :26:37. | :26:41. | |
in and, on the back of good local election results, they are in good | :26:41. | :26:45. | |
mood. In a moment, we'll bring highlights of party leader Nigel | :26:45. | :26:49. | |
Farage's conference speech. But a summer of having to defend some | :26:49. | :26:53. | |
members, and expel others, has taken some wind from their sails, and a | :26:53. | :26:56. | |
number of UKIPers have told this programme there's a distinct sense | :26:56. | :27:01. | |
of "where next?" For the party. As they celebrate 20 years in | :27:01. | :27:04. | |
existence, Giles Dilnot has sent them a birthday message. | :27:04. | :27:20. | |
Well, well, well, I UKIP, 20 years old. A lot to celebrate, | :27:20. | :27:27. | |
particularly when you think how it all started. | :27:27. | :27:34. | |
The 1990s were tough, is small party considered little more than a | :27:34. | :27:37. | |
pressure group, with very few, well, one rising star, and the look | :27:37. | :27:43. | |
and sound of parameters on parade. In political terms, toddlers who | :27:43. | :27:48. | |
fell down, had tantrums and had embarrassing relatives. But now... | :27:48. | :27:53. | |
You have become grown-ups in a grown-up world playing grown-up | :27:53. | :27:56. | |
politics. There's a lot to be excited about, a lot to look forward | :27:56. | :28:00. | |
to. Hoping to toast electoral victory in next year 's European | :28:00. | :28:04. | |
elections, after decent poll ratings, local election success, a | :28:04. | :28:09. | |
press pack keen to follow, a leader who seems like a bloke you can drink | :28:09. | :28:13. | |
with, and conferences that don't look like parish hall jamborees. | :28:13. | :28:17. | |
Just a little word from the wise. Like a lot of 20-year-olds, you | :28:17. | :28:26. | |
still have some maturing to do, you are still a bit amateur and | :28:26. | :28:28. | |
unprofessional. There are still some growing up to be done. Some will | :28:28. | :28:31. | |
gather at this hotel and if you are reflecting the leadership needs to | :28:31. | :28:32. | |
gather at this hotel and if you are change the party further. Be less | :28:32. | :28:41. | |
dictatorial, allow internal transparency, get rid of the last | :28:41. | :28:49. | |
vestiges of amateurism. Loyal bonuses -- voices accept that. | :28:49. | :28:51. | |
It will take some time, because, if bonuses -- voices accept that. | :28:51. | :28:57. | |
you imagine yourself like a small or medium-sized company, we have grown | :28:57. | :29:02. | |
tremendously, our market share has increased, our membership. Now you | :29:02. | :29:08. | |
have membership and management used to the old ways. You can start along | :29:08. | :29:11. | |
whether you will gain more market share. I think there are those in | :29:11. | :29:19. | |
the party who recognised that. Those who do not. There are tensions which | :29:19. | :29:24. | |
are accepted in all political parties. Eventually they will | :29:24. | :29:28. | |
dissipate as we see that we have got to look to the future. What a number | :29:28. | :29:33. | |
of party members want is open debate about future policy in areas UKIP | :29:33. | :29:38. | |
has ignored. To that end, they have produced a policy discussion | :29:38. | :29:42. | |
document. In producing this pamphlet of a UKIP vision, the idea is to | :29:42. | :29:49. | |
give alternative voices that chance to push out policy. And I hope what | :29:49. | :29:54. | |
it will do is to start to excite the membership across the party to start | :29:54. | :29:59. | |
writing in to ourselves and give us more ideas. In that way we will | :29:59. | :30:05. | |
become a more radical party with radical ideas but again with other | :30:05. | :30:08. | |
voices out there representing different parts of the party. | :30:08. | :30:13. | |
Otherwise the public will seek as remaining as a 20-year-old party. | :30:13. | :30:17. | |
Having rattled the grown-up cages, that 20-year-old is also getting a | :30:17. | :30:22. | |
kicking from the big boys. How UKIP handles that may determine how it | :30:23. | :30:24. | |
makes it. Joining us now from Birmingham is | :30:24. | :30:30. | |
Mike Nattrass who was a UKIP MEP but left the party and now sits in the | :30:30. | :30:33. | |
European Parliament as an independent. | :30:33. | :30:41. | |
Mike, what is it about UKIP that every now and then you will keep | :30:41. | :30:45. | |
leaving the party and forming your own one-man band? | :30:45. | :30:50. | |
I am not a one-man band, I am sitting in the European Parliament. | :30:50. | :30:56. | |
For other MEPs left before I did. As you will know. That is my point. | :30:56. | :31:02. | |
Including the chairman who wrote the manifesto and got no credit for it. | :31:02. | :31:07. | |
I am a previous chairman and previous deputy leader. It's about | :31:07. | :31:13. | |
control, excessive control. We need democracy in a party. More than one | :31:13. | :31:19. | |
person steering policy. But also, we need fairness. The way the | :31:19. | :31:23. | |
membership is now treated in my mind isn't fair. The way for example they | :31:23. | :31:29. | |
are pretending they are having an election for European Parliament | :31:29. | :31:33. | |
candidates is just not true actually. The whole thing is | :31:33. | :31:35. | |
gerrymandered. Lets face it, Nigel is a great front | :31:35. | :31:50. | |
man. He thinks well on his feet and he is a great chap, but having said | :31:51. | :31:56. | |
that, you cannot have a one-man party making all the rules. I'm not | :31:56. | :31:59. | |
sure that Nigel is a good leader from that point of view. He is not | :31:59. | :32:07. | |
fair. He likes to set around with his own people, drinking mates, just | :32:07. | :32:10. | |
mates, and that is not how you run a party. Shooting mates? They go | :32:10. | :32:22. | |
hunting and that sort of thing. You were deselected from UKIP as an | :32:22. | :32:25. | |
incumbent MEP because you failed the tests that have been set out. What | :32:25. | :32:31. | |
are these tests? It is nonsense because they did not fail. That is | :32:31. | :32:34. | |
the excuse they give. The tests that I'd took were a hustings where we | :32:34. | :32:45. | |
speak in front of the local members, and secondly, an interview that took | :32:45. | :32:49. | |
place between three of them and one of me. As far as I am concerned, it | :32:49. | :32:53. | |
was three headman. It was the chairman, a 22-year-old who reports | :32:53. | :33:01. | |
to him, and a guy who sat at Nigel Farage's bedside after he had the | :33:01. | :33:04. | |
aeroplane crash. All of these people have come to the party well after | :33:05. | :33:09. | |
me. I have been there since the 1990s. They have no idea who like | :33:09. | :33:15. | |
was. -- they had no idea who lie was. Why have been a hard-working | :33:15. | :33:20. | |
MEP. Ask the local members. If the local members had had that vote, I | :33:20. | :33:24. | |
would be top of the poll in the West Midlands. Shooting and headman. It | :33:24. | :33:30. | |
sounds are dangerous interest rate. They are. I am sorry to phrase it | :33:30. | :33:34. | |
like that. They must be doing something right because the Tory | :33:34. | :33:43. | |
membership was 230,000 in 2005. UKIP has gone from 15,020 ten to 31,000 | :33:43. | :33:53. | |
now. -- 15,000 in 2010. I'm told that more people were UKIP | :33:53. | :33:56. | |
conference and at the Lib Dem conference. I am not surprised | :33:56. | :33:59. | |
because we have the right policies. I am not against the policies. I am | :33:59. | :34:06. | |
against totalitarianism. Remember, under the previously dirt, we had | :34:06. | :34:10. | |
the same number of MEPs. He did a good job for the party and Nigel | :34:10. | :34:14. | |
took over. He has done very well but he should not get all of the glory. | :34:14. | :34:21. | |
There's been a lot of work done to get where we are. I have had 1100 | :34:21. | :34:27. | |
press hit in the last 12 months. I have been indifferent 1100 times. | :34:27. | :34:32. | |
Isn't it the case that all insurgent parties, on the left or the right, | :34:32. | :34:37. | |
protest parties that are trying to become more than that, they all | :34:37. | :34:44. | |
require a figure like Nigel Farage, and it is always built around a cult | :34:44. | :34:48. | |
of the personality, isn't it? Most times, possibly. This is not a | :34:48. | :34:52. | |
pressure group. We have policies with a different flavour. We want to | :34:53. | :34:58. | |
trade with the world. We do not think that Europe can contain our | :34:58. | :35:01. | |
economy and allow us to grow correctly. We need overseas markets. | :35:01. | :35:05. | |
And we see that Europe is stopping that growth rather than helping it. | :35:05. | :35:12. | |
UKIP has always said that arrived from day one. We do not want to be | :35:12. | :35:16. | |
contained by Europe. -- right from day one. Instead Churchill said, | :35:16. | :35:20. | |
give me the choice between Europe and the open sea and I will always | :35:20. | :35:22. | |
choose the open sea. I think he was and the open sea and I will always | :35:22. | :35:27. | |
head of the Navy at the time. -- Winston Churchill. And you have | :35:27. | :35:35. | |
joined the English Democrats? I haven't. The English Democrats say | :35:35. | :35:40. | |
that you were involved in the drafting of their press release | :35:40. | :35:45. | |
announcing that you had joined the English Democrats. I was doing due | :35:45. | :35:50. | |
diligence with that party. Various people were talking to me and one of | :35:50. | :35:54. | |
them did that release. They asked me to look at it and I've corrected it | :35:54. | :35:57. | |
because I thought it was too rambling and long. And now, it did | :35:57. | :36:03. | |
say draft on it and it was not to be released, but it was released. And I | :36:03. | :36:07. | |
had not finished doing due diligence. I was asking about the | :36:07. | :36:10. | |
track records of some of their members and they still have not got | :36:10. | :36:14. | |
that information. Let them get on with their own but I am not with | :36:14. | :36:19. | |
them, thank you. But you might join? I am not joining. If you are | :36:19. | :36:23. | |
helping to draft a press release that announces you are joining, you | :36:23. | :36:29. | |
must be considering joining them! It was in preparation for me to join | :36:29. | :36:33. | |
and the due diligence at not finished. As far as I'm concerned, | :36:33. | :36:39. | |
it didn't. And that is it. Is that you have fallen out with them before | :36:39. | :36:43. | |
you have joined? The press release was far too long and I thought we | :36:43. | :36:47. | |
had to amend it. I've changed it to make sure it said draft. It was | :36:47. | :36:53. | |
subject to due diligence. I get the feeling that you should just stay as | :36:53. | :36:57. | |
a one-man band. Stay on your own. You have fallen out with UKIP and | :36:57. | :37:04. | |
the endless Democrats. Stay on your own as the David Nattrass party. I | :37:04. | :37:11. | |
have not followed with UKIP. They are good people. The giver joining | :37:11. | :37:16. | |
us. We will hear a bit about Nigel Farage's speech in a moment. Give me | :37:16. | :37:25. | |
your 32nd thoughts. The moral of the programme is the Independent, don't | :37:25. | :37:31. | |
go into any party. I think this time last year, UKIP had one journalist | :37:32. | :37:35. | |
at the conference. Now it is over 1200. -- over 100. But we are all | :37:35. | :37:43. | |
talking about them and look at the airtime they are getting. Every | :37:43. | :37:46. | |
paper is covering what are talking about. Does that translate to votes? | :37:46. | :37:54. | |
It is unlikely. But the significance of UKIP is that they could, as the | :37:54. | :37:59. | |
Ashcroft poll showed, cause mayhem without winning a single seat. The | :37:59. | :38:05. | |
less people know about them, the more they want to vote for them. I | :38:05. | :38:09. | |
am in chanted and amazed by the extent to which they reinforce their | :38:09. | :38:11. | |
message, the idea that Europe is this stance place that rules over -- | :38:11. | :38:20. | |
distant place that rules over us. And then they let these people, | :38:20. | :38:23. | |
making these huge salaries, who represent us. There is a strong | :38:23. | :38:29. | |
temptation to sneer at the amateurism and provincialism of it. | :38:29. | :38:32. | |
And we will see Nigel Farage doing his speech and we want to imagine | :38:32. | :38:35. | |
that the audience is full of men in tin hats with spikes on them and | :38:35. | :38:40. | |
monocles. Nothing drives people into their arms than the likes of me | :38:40. | :38:42. | |
sitting in a studio sneering at them, so why try not to, but it is | :38:42. | :38:48. | |
difficult. I think you just did. That is another 20 members they have | :38:48. | :38:52. | |
got. While we're being on air, Nigel Farage been giving -- has been | :38:52. | :38:57. | |
giving his keynote speech. Let's listen to him. We have been on the | :38:57. | :39:02. | |
March four 20 long years. There have been many failures and many | :39:02. | :39:06. | |
disappointments, many ups and downs. Lots of leaflets delivered. And over | :39:06. | :39:10. | |
the years, many deposits lost. And, of course, we have been roundly | :39:10. | :39:15. | |
abused and laughed that and mocked and derided. But despite that, over | :39:15. | :39:21. | |
the last 18 months, something remarkable is happening. And we are | :39:21. | :39:25. | |
now changing the face of British politics. 's -- by the end of this | :39:25. | :39:39. | |
election, we will have the third-highest membership of any | :39:39. | :39:45. | |
party in this country. Our opponents are appalled and the commentators | :39:45. | :39:54. | |
are stunned and amazed. In eight months, we have the European | :39:54. | :39:59. | |
elections and many council elections. We will be fielding sets | :39:59. | :40:08. | |
of candidates in both. We intend to put up thousands of candidates for | :40:08. | :40:10. | |
local elections with a big emphasis and a big push in London where the | :40:10. | :40:16. | |
local seats are up for grabs. And I'm not going to take anything for | :40:16. | :40:21. | |
granted. But I think we might do quite well next year. My ambition | :40:21. | :40:26. | |
and conviction is that we can come first, across the United Kingdom, in | :40:26. | :40:31. | |
those European elections, and cause an earthquake in British politics. | :40:31. | :40:40. | |
When we launched this party, only 17% of the British people | :40:40. | :40:43. | |
When we launched this party, only that we should leave the European | :40:43. | :40:47. | |
Union. Today, that figure is 67%. The British social attitudes survey | :40:47. | :40:52. | |
shows that Britain is moving in UKIP's direction. But it is not just | :40:52. | :40:54. | |
doing that on the question of the UKIP's direction. But it is not just | :40:54. | :40:58. | |
European Union, vital though that is. They are doing it on many areas | :40:58. | :41:00. | |
European Union, vital though that of our national life. On welfare. It | :41:00. | :41:04. | |
is clear that the benefits system should be there for the needy and | :41:04. | :41:10. | |
not bear as a lifestyle choice. -- not there. On education, we are the | :41:10. | :41:17. | |
only party that actually believes in social mobility. All the rest of | :41:17. | :41:21. | |
them have effectively pulled the ladder up. From people from poor | :41:21. | :41:28. | |
backgrounds in our big cities in particular. UKIP champion the idea | :41:28. | :41:33. | |
that we need selective education and grammar schools. Once again, we are | :41:33. | :41:47. | |
changing the debate. And, yes, on immigration, we have certainly | :41:47. | :41:51. | |
changed the debate on immigration. This is a debate that, I think, is | :41:51. | :41:57. | |
vital. It is the most important, biggest question facing our | :41:57. | :42:02. | |
country, urgently. And it affects everything, the NHS, our broader | :42:02. | :42:06. | |
economy, Primary School places, public services. And yet the | :42:06. | :42:13. | |
establishment have done everything they can to close down debate on | :42:13. | :42:16. | |
this issue and to decry anybody that dares to discuss the issue as being | :42:16. | :42:20. | |
bad and racist. And we will not have dares to discuss the issue as being | :42:20. | :42:28. | |
that. This issue must be debated. We have been here for 20 years. Some | :42:28. | :42:34. | |
people keep asking, what is UKIP now? First, you are talking about | :42:34. | :42:36. | |
the European question and then you talk about immigration and the | :42:36. | :42:39. | |
grammar schools. I'm going to attempt to redefine what UKIP is. | :42:39. | :42:48. | |
With this card. UKIP is a freethinking, egalitarian party, | :42:48. | :42:53. | |
opposed to racism and extremism. UKIP is dedicated to liberty and | :42:53. | :42:59. | |
equality under the law, and the aspirations of the British people. | :42:59. | :43:02. | |
We will always act in the interests of the British nation, especially on | :43:03. | :43:06. | |
immigration, employment, energy supply and fisheries. We know that | :43:06. | :43:10. | |
only by leaving the European Union can we regain control of our | :43:10. | :43:15. | |
borders, Parliament, democracy and our ability to trade freely with the | :43:15. | :43:21. | |
fastest-growing economies in the world. A referendum to allow the | :43:21. | :43:24. | |
country to decide this matter will create the greatest opportunity for | :43:24. | :43:29. | |
national renewal in our lifetimes. That is my definition of UKIP. Nigel | :43:29. | :43:40. | |
Farage, a few minutes ago. Norman Smith joins us. He was listening to | :43:40. | :43:44. | |
the UKIP leader. Give us your impressions. Yellow macro it was | :43:44. | :43:50. | |
interesting that apart from saying he expected UKIP to win the European | :43:50. | :43:53. | |
elections, gave no predictions about getting any seats at Westminster. | :43:53. | :43:57. | |
Instead, his pitch is that we are changing the face of British | :43:57. | :44:02. | |
politics. He means that they might not win any seats but they are | :44:02. | :44:05. | |
driving public opinion and they are driving the other parties to adopt | :44:05. | :44:10. | |
policies which are more akin to their own. Obviously, on Europe, we | :44:10. | :44:16. | |
have seen David Cameron promised a referendum in a few years and Nigel | :44:16. | :44:21. | |
Farage saying there that UKIP would do the same before the next | :44:21. | :44:26. | |
election. He said that UKIP were driving the debate that he was | :44:26. | :44:30. | |
appalled by how right wing David Cameron and Nick Clegg were on | :44:30. | :44:35. | |
immigration. And even on Syria. He suggested that because UKIP was | :44:35. | :44:39. | |
opposed to intervention in Syria, that had intimidated some Tory MPs | :44:39. | :44:42. | |
who he said were more frightened of UKIP voters than of the whips. In a | :44:42. | :44:47. | |
way, suggesting that it was UKIP that resulted in David Cameron | :44:48. | :44:50. | |
losing their vote in the Commons. His pitch now seems to be, don't | :44:50. | :44:54. | |
inspect us to win many seats but look at the influence and impact | :44:55. | :44:59. | |
that we can have. And is it true that there are more delegates at | :44:59. | :45:03. | |
this conference than there were at the Lib Dems conference? Getting | :45:03. | :45:09. | |
close to it. They are saying that there are around 1500 people here. | :45:09. | :45:14. | |
It is certainly the biggest they have had. To be honest, they arrive | :45:14. | :45:20. | |
on a roll. Why was struck that there was quite a lot of the speech | :45:20. | :45:21. | |
devoted to Europe. You might say was quite a lot of the speech | :45:22. | :45:25. | |
that is not a pricing but when we were told that one of the main aims | :45:25. | :45:30. | |
of this conference was to flag up the diversity of policies they have | :45:30. | :45:32. | |
on a range of issues, from the health service to housing to | :45:32. | :45:38. | |
schools, still the core purpose of this party is to get out of Europe, | :45:38. | :45:44. | |
which Nigel Farage believes will lead to a moment of national | :45:44. | :45:48. | |
renewal. For all the other political windowdressing, which we have had | :45:48. | :45:52. | |
around other policies, there is no getting away from it. What motivates | :45:52. | :45:56. | |
people here, what they are totally about is getting out of Europe. | :45:56. | :46:05. | |
Let's talk now to UKIP's deputy leader Paul Nuttall. | :46:05. | :46:12. | |
Welcome to the Daily Politics, thanks for joining us. Tell me this, | :46:13. | :46:19. | |
come the general election in 2015, What would be a good result for | :46:19. | :46:34. | |
UKIP? We are still talking about this, it | :46:34. | :46:40. | |
is all down to ourselves. We have to keep up the momentum, crucially, I | :46:40. | :46:52. | |
think, is the 5000 seats up for election, if we can take seats, | :46:52. | :46:57. | |
maybe we can replicate the Lib Dems and take seats in the general | :46:57. | :47:00. | |
election from a base of local government. | :47:00. | :47:07. | |
As things look at the moment, from the Ashcroft poll which came out | :47:07. | :47:11. | |
earlier this week, in those seats where the Conservatives are a bit | :47:11. | :47:17. | |
ahead of Labour, the main impact you would have is taking votes from the | :47:17. | :47:23. | |
Tories and let Labour in, although you won't win any seats yourself. | :47:23. | :47:28. | |
So, voting UKIP, but get Ed Miliband. | :47:28. | :47:33. | |
Please don't fall into this Westminster bubble media chap. -- | :47:33. | :47:46. | |
trap. Look at our by-election results come in the North of | :47:46. | :47:50. | |
England, we finish consistently second to Labour, polling as much as | :47:50. | :47:57. | |
26% of the votes, taking a proportion from Labour, some from | :47:57. | :48:01. | |
the Lib Dems. We are taking votes from people who have not voted in | :48:02. | :48:05. | |
the past 20 years. You seem to have a permanent problem | :48:05. | :48:12. | |
with some of your MEPs. Periodically, they seem to walk | :48:12. | :48:18. | |
out. Is this because UKIP is really a one-man band, and Mr Farage has | :48:18. | :48:26. | |
slightly dictatorial tendencies? No, basically, we have tightened up | :48:26. | :48:32. | |
the process. I hope it is not a one-man band. Otherwise I might as | :48:32. | :48:44. | |
well get back electioneering again. Look, we have tightened up our | :48:44. | :48:48. | |
process this time around. We have gone through the most stringent | :48:48. | :48:52. | |
test, probably of all the political parties, for our MEPs. If some have | :48:52. | :49:00. | |
fallen by the wayside, that is hard luck. What we will do is, I think, | :49:00. | :49:06. | |
we will send more MEPs back to Brussels next year on May 22 than | :49:06. | :49:09. | |
any of the political parties put together. To ensure that, we have to | :49:09. | :49:14. | |
get the process right. Is this a feature of all insurgent | :49:15. | :49:19. | |
parties, you fall out with each other at some stage? You have just | :49:19. | :49:25. | |
lost Mike Nattrass, then Nicky Sinclair who has founded her own | :49:26. | :49:33. | |
party. And Marta Anderson, a leading UKIP light, she has joined the | :49:33. | :49:42. | |
Tories. What is the story here? Hang on. The Conservatives lost one | :49:42. | :49:47. | |
to the Lib Dems, we gained one from the Tories. People lose | :49:47. | :49:51. | |
politicians, that happens. We are a young party, only 20 years old this | :49:51. | :49:56. | |
week. Young parties go through growing pains. I can assure you | :49:56. | :50:00. | |
now, next time it will be different, the people we get in the | :50:00. | :50:04. | |
European Parliament next time around will be solid good people who will | :50:04. | :50:08. | |
take the cause of wit -ish withdrawal forward and they won't be | :50:08. | :50:12. | |
leaving UKIP. If it's still the case that getting | :50:12. | :50:16. | |
out of the European Union is your raison d'etre chap, that you have | :50:16. | :50:27. | |
other policies, but it -- you wouldn't exist otherwise? | :50:27. | :50:33. | |
The party would not have been formed otherwise. UKIP was born to get us | :50:33. | :50:37. | |
out of the European Union and we have been successful in driving | :50:37. | :50:41. | |
public opinion. When the party was formed, only 60% of people believed | :50:41. | :50:45. | |
Britain would be better outside the EU. It is now in the late 60s. We | :50:46. | :50:53. | |
have been successful. We have to broaden our agenda. Talking earlier | :50:53. | :50:59. | |
about the Ashcroft poll, there was another poll by the same noble Lord | :50:59. | :51:03. | |
with people flocking to UKIP on another poll by the same noble Lord | :51:03. | :51:07. | |
immigration and crime as well. You talked about giving great | :51:07. | :51:10. | |
scrutiny to who would be standing for you but are you sure? If you | :51:10. | :51:16. | |
were to scrutinise Nigel Farage you might not let him stand, given what | :51:16. | :51:20. | |
seemed to be his hard right attitudes when he was at Dulwich | :51:20. | :51:26. | |
public school? Andrew, come on, this is a nonstory. | :51:26. | :51:33. | |
We are talking about what went on in his school days. If you listened to | :51:33. | :51:37. | |
the headmaster and deputy head, they say something can piggy different | :51:37. | :51:44. | |
than one far left teacher who has an axe to grind against Nigel. It's not | :51:44. | :51:48. | |
really a story. If this is the best that the media can do, then, it is a | :51:48. | :51:55. | |
pretty sorry state. So you can assure us today that you have purged | :51:55. | :52:01. | |
your ranks of the hard right, racist, a liberal tendency, correct? | :52:01. | :52:11. | |
-- illiberal. When I became chairman, the party | :52:11. | :52:18. | |
had been infiltrated. We dealt with that. Since then, we have had a | :52:18. | :52:22. | |
blanket ban on anybody who has ever been a member of a far right party. | :52:22. | :52:29. | |
We are the only political party in this country with that land. The | :52:29. | :52:34. | |
Labour Party has elected councillors who have crossed the floor from the | :52:34. | :52:39. | |
BNP. We do not have a problem with the far right in our party. | :52:39. | :52:44. | |
But you are overwhelmingly white, and strongly male. You are almost as | :52:44. | :52:53. | |
white and male as the Lib Dems! I agree with you, I genuinely | :52:53. | :52:58. | |
believe that UKIP needs to change that perception. I agree we are too | :52:59. | :53:02. | |
white and middle-class and mail which is why I hope the list next | :53:02. | :53:07. | |
time for the European elections includes a more eclectic bunch of | :53:07. | :53:11. | |
people. If UKIP wants to move forward, we have to be | :53:11. | :53:15. | |
representative of society as a whole. A final question. | :53:15. | :53:20. | |
You have said to me before and again, that you are going to win the | :53:20. | :53:25. | |
European elections next year and come far -- come first with most | :53:25. | :53:32. | |
votes. Are you sure you are right to set the bar that high? It can only | :53:32. | :53:40. | |
disappoint, can it not? Why not? It could become a | :53:40. | :53:46. | |
self-fulfilling possibly -- prophecy. If Cameron doesn't bring | :53:46. | :53:52. | |
forward a referendum and if the other parties do not offer a | :53:52. | :53:58. | |
referendum, we will make next year the 20 14th European elections in | :53:58. | :54:02. | |
referendum you never had. That is why we have a great opportunity of | :54:02. | :54:12. | |
winning. Hugo, let me come to you. Mr Cameron | :54:12. | :54:17. | |
doesn't seem to have a UKIP strategy yet, a way of dealing with UKIP, | :54:18. | :54:23. | |
which is clearly a huge threat to him. It is difficult for him because | :54:23. | :54:25. | |
which is clearly a huge threat to he does not know which angle to go | :54:25. | :54:30. | |
at them from. UKIP say they are more than a Europe party. The issue of | :54:30. | :54:41. | |
equal marriage, particularly older conservative voters have flocked to | :54:41. | :54:44. | |
UKIP because they have so disliked that idea. Anyway, it shows the | :54:44. | :54:51. | |
tension that UKIP has. You could almost call it a dishonesty, Nigel | :54:51. | :54:55. | |
Farage saying they are a almost call it a dishonesty, Nigel | :54:55. | :55:00. | |
liberty, was about the liberty to cross borders, for a man to marry a | :55:00. | :55:05. | |
man. It is not liberty at all. A difficult thing for the Tories to | :55:05. | :55:09. | |
fight against, particularly using rhetoric like that. A great many | :55:09. | :55:13. | |
natural Tory voters would agree with UKIP. | :55:13. | :55:17. | |
An interesting development in British politics. | :55:17. | :55:19. | |
If the Lib Dem conference wasn't your thing, and you've tuned out | :55:19. | :55:22. | |
from politics for the last seven days, here's the week in 60 seconds. | :55:22. | :55:34. | |
It was Lib Dem conference week and whilst much of the talk was about | :55:34. | :55:40. | |
whether Vince Cable were torn up to support the economic policy, Ed | :55:40. | :55:43. | |
Davey was having problems with wind power. You have been marked by a | :55:43. | :55:47. | |
Daily Politics poster. Nick Clegg try to prove there was | :55:47. | :56:01. | |
such a thing as a free lunch, at least the schoolchildren. But after | :56:01. | :56:05. | |
all that healthy fruit, he went and ruined it with a trip to the tuck | :56:05. | :56:10. | |
shop. It was revealed MPs had made a string of complaints about the food | :56:10. | :56:15. | |
in the House of Commons. Including raw fish, and an inadequate supply | :56:15. | :56:19. | |
of vintage wine. David Cameron came out in favour of Spurs fans who want | :56:19. | :56:25. | |
to carry on calling them the Yid army. And we learned that Eric | :56:25. | :56:34. | |
Pickles has personalised ring phone -- ringtones. | :56:34. | :56:42. | |
Let us not forget that there was a Lib Dem conference this week. It | :56:42. | :56:50. | |
finished on Wednesday afternoon. How would you sum it up, how does Mr | :56:50. | :56:55. | |
Clegg and his party come out? Nick Clegg came out of it pretty | :56:55. | :56:59. | |
well, he sounded confident. Re-establishing who he is and what | :56:59. | :57:03. | |
he stands for. The party overall, I don't think people were hugely | :57:03. | :57:08. | |
interested. There wasn't a huge turnout of people. It almost doesn't | :57:08. | :57:16. | |
matter what happens because they are going to be in a position of power | :57:16. | :57:22. | |
at the time of the next election. If there is a hung parliament. And you | :57:22. | :57:32. | |
are part of a growing consensus. You, I understand, writing Nick | :57:32. | :57:39. | |
Clegg's diary for the newspaper? I am going to focus on Nick Clegg. I | :57:39. | :57:44. | |
disagree. His speech reminded me of what John Major said Neil Kinnock, | :57:45. | :57:48. | |
he doesn't know what he wants to stay so he has way of saying it. | :57:48. | :57:54. | |
They are in a weird position, they can't do anything. The whole purpose | :57:54. | :57:59. | |
of the Lib Dems being in this parliament is to show that coalition | :57:59. | :58:02. | |
government can work. So they cannot do anything to destroy the | :58:02. | :58:07. | |
coalition. Their major achievement will be to stay there so they can do | :58:07. | :58:12. | |
it again. You can't bring it down by letting your principles get in the | :58:12. | :58:23. | |
way. They do need to position themselves. | :58:23. | :58:28. | |
Which is why he is saying he stuck up for... | :58:28. | :58:34. | |
That's all for today. Thanks to our guests. The one o'clock news is | :58:34. | :58:43. | |
starting on BBC One. I'll be back on BBC One on Sunday with the Sunday | :58:43. | :58:46. | |
Politics with Labour's Rachel Reeves, Conservative Party chairman | :58:46. | :58:49. | |
Grant Shapps, and the results of an exclusive survey of Labour | :58:49. | :58:51. | |
councillors. Do join me then. Bye-bye. | :58:51. | :58:54. |