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Afternoon folks, welcome to the Daily Politics. The weather in | :00:37. | :00:42. | |
Brighton's rather unremarkable, unlike the Labour conference, which | :00:42. | :00:44. | |
is turning into rather a stormy affair. Mainly because of a former | :00:44. | :00:50. | |
spin doctor and a certain book he'd like to sell. But fear not my policy | :00:50. | :00:56. | |
wonks, there is substance to the event too. In fact it's been hard to | :00:56. | :01:02. | |
keep Mr Miliband quiet. He's been keen to take centre stage - or at | :01:02. | :01:06. | |
least centre table - to announce he'd reverse the so-called bedroom | :01:06. | :01:09. | |
tax, he's been offering child care sweeteners and a brand new | :01:09. | :01:13. | |
apprenticeship scheme. Today the Shadow Chancellor Ed Balls will be | :01:13. | :01:16. | |
taking the limelight, fleshing out the party's economic policy. Let's | :01:16. | :01:19. | |
hope his strategy for the country is better than his footballing skills. | :01:19. | :01:25. | |
Should it be move over Balls, come back Darling? Adam's been putting | :01:25. | :01:29. | |
the "who should be Shadow Chancellor conundrum" to the mood box test. Who | :01:29. | :01:36. | |
would you rather hang out with? Ed conundrum" to the mood box test. Who | :01:36. | :01:44. | |
Balls. He is just so hunky! And we'll have you spinning in your | :01:44. | :01:47. | |
armchairs till you're dizzy with not one but two former spin doctors on | :01:47. | :01:50. | |
the programme. Messrs Campbell and Wheelan. It could get ugly! | :01:50. | :01:58. | |
All that in the next 90 minutes, and with us for the whole programme | :01:58. | :02:04. | |
today we've got two top economists - the financial analyst, Louise Cooper | :02:04. | :02:08. | |
and Ann Pettifor who was one of the few economists to forsee the | :02:08. | :02:19. | |
economic crisis. She's in her prime. Welcome to you both. So it's | :02:19. | :02:27. | |
Labour's annual big bash, time for the party to put a little bit of | :02:27. | :02:32. | |
flesh to its bones, so to speak, and the party Leader Ed Miliband has | :02:32. | :02:35. | |
been busy making a series of major policy announcements. First came | :02:35. | :02:38. | |
confirmation that Labour would scrap what it calls the bedroom tax - a | :02:38. | :02:41. | |
housing benefit cut for people living in social housing with spare | :02:41. | :02:44. | |
bedrooms. Mr Miliband's also promised all parents of primary | :02:44. | :02:47. | |
school children guaranteed access to childcare through their school from | :02:47. | :02:54. | |
8am to 6pm. And he wants big firms to train up an apprentice every time | :02:54. | :02:58. | |
they bring in a worker from outside the EU. Shadow Chancellor Ed Balls | :02:58. | :03:04. | |
is also getting in on the act, pledging to increase free childcare | :03:04. | :03:06. | |
for three and four-year-olds of working parents from the current 15 | :03:06. | :03:10. | |
hours to 25 hours a week. But how much will all this cost and how will | :03:10. | :03:16. | |
the party pay for it all? The Conservatives claim Labour's now | :03:16. | :03:18. | |
made almost £28 billion of unfunded spending commitments. Ed Balls' | :03:18. | :03:24. | |
answer to this is that he wants the Office for Budget Responsibility to | :03:24. | :03:27. | |
scrutinise all Labour's tax and spending plans before the election. | :03:27. | :03:38. | |
It's Labour making itself vulnerable to the charge that it is a tax and | :03:39. | :03:45. | |
spend party again? I think it is, actually. It is engaged in petty | :03:45. | :03:52. | |
politics, it seems, and salami slice economic 's. A bit of this and a bit | :03:52. | :03:58. | |
of that. Childcare here, tax increases there, where is the | :03:58. | :04:04. | |
wreath, I would ask. We want the big picture, the big story, we want | :04:04. | :04:09. | |
hope. Instead, what we are getting is these slices of economic policy, | :04:09. | :04:16. | |
which don't add up. They are not part of a big vision. I have to say, | :04:16. | :04:21. | |
I don't agree with the need to actually finance childcare with tax | :04:21. | :04:26. | |
rises. We can do it by increasing economic activity. In particular, | :04:26. | :04:32. | |
jobs and employment. That is what Labour is there to do. But they are | :04:32. | :04:37. | |
going to tell us they're not good to do what they did in the past. All | :04:37. | :04:42. | |
political parties have to get used to the fact there is no money | :04:42. | :04:45. | |
around, they have to tighten their belts, and make sure they stay | :04:45. | :04:49. | |
within a tight financial straitjacket. But that is not what | :04:49. | :04:55. | |
it seems. Of course, politicians love to announce grandly and loudly | :04:55. | :05:01. | |
their plans for spending. What you rarely hear that transfer how | :05:01. | :05:07. | |
they're going to finance it. That is my key criticism of what they are | :05:07. | :05:11. | |
doing now. You give us your plans, we want to know how you will fund | :05:11. | :05:16. | |
them. Remember, the deficit-cutting continues for many, many years. In | :05:16. | :05:24. | |
2015 to 2016, which is what we're talking about, what we are still | :05:24. | :05:28. | |
expecting to have a 90 billion deficit. So we are still spending 19 | :05:28. | :05:32. | |
Ilium more than we are getting in taxation. -- 90 billion. So it is | :05:32. | :05:39. | |
not like that will be a year of plenty. Ed Balls will announce 25 | :05:39. | :05:47. | |
hours of free childcare, and he will finance it by taxing the banks, but | :05:47. | :05:52. | |
I put this to you. George Osborne has already been doing it. He has | :05:52. | :05:56. | |
increased the rank levy because he's not getting as much as he says he | :05:56. | :06:00. | |
wants out of it. Financial services are in decline in this country now, | :06:00. | :06:05. | |
is there really scope to do it this way? To be honest, our economy is in | :06:05. | :06:12. | |
so much trouble, we can't really be taking more out of it than it is | :06:12. | :06:18. | |
capable of creating. So what is wrong with this is the idea that you | :06:18. | :06:22. | |
finance 1-piece with a bit of tax rises here, the way in which to fix | :06:23. | :06:28. | |
the budget deficit is to increase employment. We have 2.5 million | :06:28. | :06:33. | |
people in the country are unemployed, it is a mass and | :06:33. | :06:36. | |
employment situation, we had never lived with so much unemployment for | :06:36. | :06:41. | |
so long. There was 3 million unemployed in the 80s? For most of | :06:41. | :06:49. | |
the 80s. But it would deal with unemployment, the deficit will look | :06:49. | :06:53. | |
after itself. I wonder if he understands that if it takes 800 | :06:53. | :06:58. | |
million out of the banks, it is that much of their capital, which given | :06:58. | :07:04. | |
that banks use leverage, banks will therefore be lending to the economy, | :07:04. | :07:10. | |
which is what petitions say, billions and billions less. If you | :07:10. | :07:13. | |
take money out of the banking sector, it cannot lend as much, that | :07:13. | :07:17. | |
is the maths. I wonder if he realises that. We will speak to his | :07:17. | :07:23. | |
spokesman Chris Leslie later. Earlier this morning Ed Balls was | :07:23. | :07:27. | |
interviewed on BBC Breakfast. Asked by Bill Turnbull whether he'd ever | :07:27. | :07:30. | |
been involved in the same kind of negative briefing as Damian McBride, | :07:30. | :07:33. | |
the Shadow Chancellor was keen to emphasise his new-found cuddly | :07:33. | :07:38. | |
credentials. That's not something I have ever done, it is the wrong way | :07:38. | :07:42. | |
to do politics. He says he has done those things, it was despicable, the | :07:42. | :07:46. | |
wrong thing to do. Critics is tough, and they have been times in the past | :07:46. | :07:51. | |
where I have had strong arguments with Tony Blair, with Gordon Brown | :07:51. | :07:53. | |
where I have had strong arguments on different issues, but I have | :07:53. | :07:56. | |
always done that in an open way. This kind of negative, nasty | :07:56. | :08:01. | |
briefing is wrong, but also, it's a thing of the past. That Iran is | :08:01. | :08:06. | |
gone, it is not how Ed Miliband and I are doing things in the Labour | :08:06. | :08:12. | |
Party is gone. -- that era is gone. We are in a better place now. We all | :08:12. | :08:17. | |
are nowadays! So are the Brownites and the | :08:17. | :08:22. | |
Blairites at war? Can they give it up and get proper jobs? Who better | :08:22. | :08:28. | |
to give us the mood of conference than a couple of tabloid hacks. I | :08:28. | :08:35. | |
should fire whoever called you that! The Mirror's Kevin Maguire and the | :08:35. | :08:41. | |
Sun's Emily Ashton. Welcome to you both. Kevin, what are they talking | :08:41. | :08:44. | |
about in the pubs and bars and lounges of Brighton? Quantitative | :08:44. | :08:51. | |
easing or Damian McBride? If you say that, it is more Damien Wright, but | :08:51. | :08:56. | |
actually there is surprisingly little, because that is at a level | :08:56. | :09:02. | |
for the people who come here, they take a week off work and pay their | :09:02. | :09:06. | |
own way. But there is some chatter around that, it is the recent past | :09:06. | :09:10. | |
but what they are talking about really is how terrible the Tories | :09:10. | :09:12. | |
are, you get a lot of that. Thank really is how terrible the Tories | :09:12. | :09:22. | |
you for that scoop! But it tells you something about the mindset, Andrew, | :09:23. | :09:27. | |
it is always looking at the Coalition, attacking them. As I | :09:27. | :09:32. | |
think coming some way behind is a discussion about where labour is, | :09:32. | :09:37. | |
the policies, the bedroom tax, but also that talk about Ed Miliband | :09:37. | :09:43. | |
two. At best, you will get people saying he has to do better. Do you | :09:43. | :09:51. | |
agree with that? I was in a bar last night... I can see! Everybody was | :09:51. | :09:59. | |
talking about McBride. There were a lot of MPs around, a lot of ex-MPs, | :09:59. | :10:06. | |
everybody was saying, and my name checked in the book? It is pure | :10:06. | :10:12. | |
gossip. But maybe this is an out there on the streets as much as the | :10:12. | :10:16. | |
cost of living prices, but the fact that Ed Miliband and Ed Balls were | :10:16. | :10:21. | |
involved in this is actually an issue for real people as well as | :10:21. | :10:26. | |
journalists and MPs who are here. I am told that Gordon Brown has | :10:26. | :10:32. | |
descended and is on the conference -- at the conference. Is there any | :10:32. | :10:35. | |
chance he is good to say something about this? Absolutely, really, the | :10:35. | :10:45. | |
person who loses out most is Gordon Brown, who include Damian McBride, | :10:45. | :10:51. | |
and as he said, actually kind of knew who what was going on -- who | :10:51. | :10:55. | |
employed Damian McBride. If we fighting, I will ask him! I didn't | :10:55. | :11:00. | |
know he was here. But he can sometimes be elusive. You always | :11:00. | :11:06. | |
learn something when you are on the Daily Politics. Kevin mentioned that | :11:06. | :11:13. | |
a lot of Labour activists think Ed Miliband has to do better. Would I | :11:13. | :11:14. | |
a lot of Labour activists think Ed be right in thinking they may think | :11:14. | :11:19. | |
that even more after his interview with Andrew Marr yesterday, got | :11:19. | :11:22. | |
pretty bad reviews in the papers are even in the Labour papers? I think | :11:22. | :11:26. | |
this is all about showing that Ed even in the Labour papers? I think | :11:26. | :11:31. | |
Miliband can be prime minister, and I'm not sure he has put in flesh on | :11:31. | :11:37. | |
the bones, he talks about minimum wage, cracking down on employers who | :11:37. | :11:45. | |
don't pay it, and raising the minimum wage, but there is no detail | :11:45. | :11:50. | |
on those policies. Until he does that, you can't really take him | :11:50. | :11:54. | |
seriously as the next party leader in government. But it you think of | :11:54. | :12:03. | |
his performance yesterday? I wish I had watched it with my eyes closed, | :12:03. | :12:07. | |
he sits rather awkwardly, he keeps looking down, it's a visual medium | :12:07. | :12:09. | |
and if someone looks awkward on the looking down, it's a visual medium | :12:09. | :12:13. | |
TV, you think there aren't as are going to be awkward. I wasn't as | :12:13. | :12:17. | |
critical as many people, because there are signs of a manifesto and a | :12:17. | :12:22. | |
programme, and yes, there are chunks missing, we are 20 months from a | :12:22. | :12:27. | |
general election, it would be odd if you put the manifesto forward now. | :12:27. | :12:32. | |
But things like child care, the bedroom tax, the minimum wage is | :12:32. | :12:35. | |
important for many people who don't get it and want it enforced. He has | :12:35. | :12:41. | |
a long way to go, and he has too convinced the public that he has | :12:41. | :12:44. | |
what it takes to get into Downing Street and be a prime minister and | :12:44. | :12:49. | |
he keeps falling short on that. His poll ratings are poor, not as bad as | :12:49. | :12:54. | |
Nick Clegg 's. That's a pretty good yardstick! Emily, when he was | :12:54. | :13:03. | |
talking yesterday about the referendum on Europe, in or out, he | :13:03. | :13:08. | |
said, we have made our position very, very clear and then he added, | :13:08. | :13:13. | |
but we will make our position clear in the manifesto. That's eight, the | :13:13. | :13:19. | |
position is not clear and he is able to sit on the fence until he can see | :13:19. | :13:24. | |
where the wind is blowing and what the public wants. This is typical of | :13:24. | :13:30. | |
his leadership, I have to say. He comes up with these ideas but | :13:30. | :13:32. | |
doesn't actually put any flesh on the bones at all until the last | :13:32. | :13:38. | |
minute. David Cameron has promised a referendum in 2017 and it might be | :13:38. | :13:43. | |
difficult to renegotiate the relationship with Brussels in the | :13:43. | :13:44. | |
meantime but at least he has come up relationship with Brussels in the | :13:44. | :13:49. | |
with the proposal. Damian McBride is coming to the conference, he's going | :13:49. | :13:52. | |
to do an interview with Newsnight, coming to the conference, he's going | :13:52. | :13:56. | |
he will then be on the Daily Politics tomorrow. If he gets out! | :13:56. | :14:06. | |
Will he need a couple of minders? I think people want receiving well | :14:06. | :14:09. | |
because they will feel at this time, the Daily Mail, he shouldn't be | :14:09. | :14:13. | |
washing labour 's dirty linen in public. I admire his honesty but | :14:13. | :14:22. | |
maybe not his timing. Kevin, Emily, our new superb double act, I think | :14:22. | :14:27. | |
it was for the money! Go and enjoy yourselves. The question for | :14:27. | :14:37. | |
today's quiz, which of these is the only one that does not made Ed Balls | :14:37. | :14:43. | |
cry, at least as far as we know! The Antiques Roadshow, Bambi, American | :14:43. | :14:49. | |
sitcom titled his modern family, or the Sound Of Music? -- Modern Family | :14:49. | :15:03. | |
full stop now, what do you do if you are a former Labour spin doctor. | :15:03. | :15:08. | |
If you are Damian McBride, you write a salacious book about your years in | :15:08. | :15:11. | |
office and hope you get a lot of one go for it. If you are Alistair | :15:11. | :15:20. | |
Campbell, , you go running with Andy Burnham to raise awareness about | :15:20. | :15:24. | |
alcohol misuse. A pretty good subject for a party conference, I | :15:24. | :15:28. | |
can tell you! I interviewed him yesterday for the Sunday Politics, | :15:28. | :15:31. | |
and he so enjoy that he is back again for and two, but first, as a | :15:31. | :15:37. | |
special treat, let's talk to another famous spin doctor from the | :15:37. | :15:42. | |
Brown-Blair years. Yes, I speak of none other than Charlie Whelan, | :15:42. | :15:47. | |
there he is, smiling away in the gloom of Brighton! Welcome to the | :15:47. | :15:52. | |
Daily Politics. Good morning, it is very pleasant to be back in | :15:52. | :15:57. | |
Brighton. It is a pleasure to see you there. Alistair Campbell says | :15:57. | :16:01. | |
that you are evil, evil is the word he used! What do you make of that? I | :16:01. | :16:03. | |
that you are evil, evil is the word don't know, I just bumped into him | :16:03. | :16:08. | |
downstairs, we had a little chat to talk about his football team, | :16:08. | :16:11. | |
Burnley, not doing as well as my team, but he didn't say anything | :16:11. | :16:18. | |
like that. He did, he said it on Sky News! You would not say it to me, | :16:18. | :16:25. | |
because he knows how much I would defend you! I do not bother with | :16:25. | :16:28. | |
because he knows how much I would this kind of nonsense. People here | :16:28. | :16:30. | |
want to talk about jobs, living standards, the NHS, the minimum | :16:30. | :16:36. | |
wage. They are not interested in books by Damian McBride, Alistair | :16:36. | :16:39. | |
Campbell or anybody else, which is why I never wrote a book. I have got | :16:39. | :16:45. | |
bad news for you, I am interested! So I am going to keep on with the | :16:45. | :16:50. | |
questions. I notice Kevin Maguire said, will Damian McBride get a | :16:50. | :16:54. | |
welcome here? Most of the delegates will not recognising, they do not | :16:54. | :16:59. | |
know who he is. This is just stop for the media. I went into the press | :16:59. | :17:03. | |
room, and the media was talking about Damian McBride. I went into | :17:03. | :17:06. | |
the conference area to talk to delegates and a number of old | :17:06. | :17:09. | |
friends, and nobody mentioned him. The people are interested in jobs, | :17:09. | :17:18. | |
living standards and the NHS. They are not as brave as me, that is why | :17:18. | :17:20. | |
living standards and the NHS. They I am going to as the these | :17:20. | :17:24. | |
questions. Did you know that Damian McBride got up to this sort of thing | :17:24. | :17:27. | |
cause me as you probably know as a student of politics, when I worked | :17:27. | :17:31. | |
for Gordon Brown in opposition then for a few years at the Treasury, I | :17:31. | :17:37. | |
met Damian McBride, I never met him, he did not come onto the scene | :17:37. | :17:41. | |
until three years after I had left frontline politics. He was there | :17:41. | :17:45. | |
when you were political officer for Unite. He was indeed, yes. So did | :17:45. | :17:52. | |
you know that he was and the mining political careers of Labour | :17:52. | :17:59. | |
colleagues like John Reid, Charles Clarke? -- undermining. I am sure | :17:59. | :18:04. | |
John Reid and Charles Clarke could look after themselves! Andrew, I | :18:04. | :18:08. | |
know you are interested in this, but if you talk about Damian McBride, go | :18:09. | :18:12. | |
to Alistair Campbell, who was waiting for you. I don't want to | :18:12. | :18:16. | |
talk about it, and neither do delegates. People think you were a | :18:16. | :18:21. | |
forerunner for Damian McBride, that you were pretty tough on anybody | :18:21. | :18:25. | |
that got in Gordon Brown's way - is that true? I suppose I was from a | :18:25. | :18:32. | |
different era, most of the time I was working was in opposition, where | :18:32. | :18:36. | |
it is a hard fight to win an election, which is why both eggs are | :18:36. | :18:42. | |
finding it difficult - opposition is difficult. -- Eds. It is a tough job | :18:42. | :18:49. | |
being a press officer, because we have to deal with people like you, | :18:49. | :18:53. | |
Andrew, Alistair Campbell did a good job, and so did I, but that was many | :18:53. | :18:58. | |
moons ago. Alistair Campbell said to me yesterday that there was no | :18:58. | :19:02. | |
equivalence between what he and Peter Mandelson did and what you and | :19:02. | :19:06. | |
Damian McBride did, that you were much rubber, much tougher, much more | :19:06. | :19:11. | |
brutal, much more unscrupulous. -- Robert. Oh, dear, I wish, I wish! | :19:11. | :19:18. | |
Oh, dear, oh, dear. Did he rerelease say that?! I will have a word with | :19:18. | :19:23. | |
him afterwards! Only after I have had a word with him. There are | :19:23. | :19:28. | |
reports that you were copied in on briefing e-mail that were sent out | :19:28. | :19:32. | |
by Damian McBride in 2009. You must have known what was going on. Were | :19:32. | :19:36. | |
you? I had no idea what he was up to, and neither did Gordon Brown, | :19:36. | :19:42. | |
because I must say that I do genuinely think that Gordon Brown | :19:42. | :19:47. | |
would be more shocked than anybody with some of the allegations that | :19:47. | :19:50. | |
have been made in this book. Really?! I do think... Gold belt | :19:50. | :19:58. | |
this man was obsessive for detail, he read the papers avidly, he wanted | :19:58. | :20:03. | |
to know where every story came from, and you are telling me that he saw | :20:03. | :20:07. | |
these things, oh, Charles Clarke is in a briefing war, no idea where | :20:07. | :20:11. | |
that came from! The idea that Charles Clarke could not look after | :20:11. | :20:18. | |
himself, or John Reid, an old comrades in the Communist Party era, | :20:18. | :20:19. | |
himself, or John Reid, an old it is ridiculous. I am sure you have | :20:19. | :20:23. | |
enjoyed reading it, I certainly have not read any of these books. I never | :20:23. | :20:28. | |
read Alistair Campbell's books, Tony Blair's books. When I worked in | :20:29. | :20:32. | |
government, I felt that what was happening was private. If I had a | :20:32. | :20:37. | |
bad Jonny that said, when I leave, I am going to write about what | :20:37. | :20:41. | |
everybody said, there are enough, but I didn't, and I think it is | :20:41. | :20:45. | |
dishonest, I do not like these books. I certainly do not like | :20:45. | :20:49. | |
Damian McBride's book. Did you not like Alistair Campbell's diaries? I | :20:49. | :20:59. | |
bet you looked yourself up in the index! Why would I possibly be | :20:59. | :21:03. | |
interested in that?! I am interested in real politics, which is about | :21:03. | :21:10. | |
what happening in this country, living standards, about getting a | :21:10. | :21:13. | |
Labour government and getting rid of the Tories. All right, we got our | :21:14. | :21:18. | |
message, thank you for joining us. Now, Ed Balls is bidding later this | :21:18. | :21:23. | |
morning, but before we do the build-up to that, let's go to | :21:23. | :21:26. | |
Alistair Campbell, who I think could hear what we were saying, and he | :21:26. | :21:31. | |
joins us again, twice in two days, it is too much for me! Same time as | :21:31. | :21:38. | |
well. I have changed mine, but it is the same colour! What did you make | :21:38. | :21:44. | |
of Charlie Whelan? Just doing his job, never delete thing wrong, this | :21:44. | :21:48. | |
is all a waste of time nobody cares? Well, I think I would say | :21:49. | :21:55. | |
borderline... No, not borderline, dishonest. He is right that the | :21:55. | :21:59. | |
delegates do not want to talk about it and would rather focus on jobs, | :21:59. | :22:04. | |
the economy, because these abuses that matter to people, but I think | :22:04. | :22:12. | |
that you cannot go through the decade that went through with the | :22:12. | :22:15. | |
sort of politics that they operated in and explain to come along and | :22:15. | :22:19. | |
say, oh, I don't read books, I don't know what is going on. I thought you | :22:19. | :22:23. | |
were right to press him with some of the questions that you did, because | :22:23. | :22:28. | |
the idea that he has not read those books as well is, I suspect, | :22:28. | :22:31. | |
borderline dishonest as well. The point is that when he talks about | :22:31. | :22:34. | |
borderline dishonest as well. The wanting to get a Labour government, | :22:34. | :22:37. | |
one of the reasons we don't have a Labour government is because of the | :22:37. | :22:41. | |
way that people like this behaved when we were in government. Because | :22:41. | :22:46. | |
a narrative was fed to the public, day in, day out, that Tony Blair was | :22:46. | :22:51. | |
not very good at his job, that any minister who was frankly very good | :22:51. | :22:53. | |
not very good at his job, that any at his job and thereby seen as a | :22:53. | :22:56. | |
threat by people like him and McBride were consistently briefed | :22:56. | :23:02. | |
against. You made the point, and he tried to laugh it off, about me | :23:02. | :23:06. | |
saying that Peter Mandelson and I, we never saw an equivalence, and I | :23:06. | :23:10. | |
did not. The reason why I felt that we were different to them is because | :23:11. | :23:15. | |
we understood we were part of a team, and as you know, you have been | :23:15. | :23:19. | |
around politics for a long time. This can get very tough, things can | :23:19. | :23:24. | |
get very heated, because the issues matter. But the reason why I am | :23:24. | :23:26. | |
still angry at people like Whelan matter. But the reason why I am | :23:26. | :23:30. | |
and McBride, and to be frank, let me say, Andrew, a lot of the journalist | :23:30. | :23:34. | |
who are now running around saying, how terrible these people work, they | :23:35. | :23:38. | |
were taking this poison. You just add Kevin Maguire on the programme. | :23:38. | :23:42. | |
Kevin Maguire would take their messages every day of the week. And | :23:42. | :23:47. | |
on a paper like the Daily Mirror, they would damage the Labour | :23:47. | :23:50. | |
government of the time. These people frankly, I have no time for them, I | :23:50. | :23:54. | |
never will have time for them, because they are among the reasons | :23:54. | :23:58. | |
why we have a Conservative government screwing up the recovery, | :23:58. | :24:01. | |
the health service, punishing people on welfare, and with a foreign | :24:01. | :24:05. | |
policy in shambles. That is why it is right that that is what matters, | :24:05. | :24:08. | |
policy in shambles. That is why it and they are partly responsible for | :24:08. | :24:10. | |
the Conservatives now being in power and us being out of power. You know, | :24:10. | :24:15. | |
for Damian McBride to come here and stinky can have his 15 minutes of | :24:15. | :24:18. | |
fame, he can sell as many thousands of his books as he wants, but he | :24:18. | :24:22. | |
should have it on his conscience that one of the reasons we have a | :24:22. | :24:24. | |
should have it on his conscience conservative and not a Labour | :24:24. | :24:28. | |
government is because he spent his whole time inside government at | :24:28. | :24:32. | |
taxpayers expense on the payroll, frankly undermining the | :24:32. | :24:36. | |
effectiveness and performance and leadership of that government. Lets | :24:36. | :24:39. | |
come onto the position that Labour finds itself in now, because I said | :24:39. | :24:43. | |
yesterday that when you were with Labour and in opposition, you at | :24:43. | :24:47. | |
this stage in the political cycle were always well ahead in the | :24:47. | :24:50. | |
polls, and certainly in the run up to 1997, looking like he would win | :24:50. | :24:55. | |
by a comfortable majority, maybe not as big as it subsequently became, | :24:55. | :24:59. | |
that surprised a lot of people, but big. At the moment, the polls are | :24:59. | :25:03. | |
narrowing, Labour is not that far ahead of the Tories, on economic | :25:04. | :25:08. | |
confidence the Tories are ahead in the polls. This is an unusual | :25:08. | :25:14. | |
situation for Labour. Well, I think one of the difficulties for Labour | :25:14. | :25:18. | |
is that the currently ship, Ed Miliband, Ed Balls and a lot of | :25:18. | :25:24. | |
winning environment. -- current leadership. I think a lot of people | :25:24. | :25:30. | |
sensed we were going to win in 1997, and that is when most of them came | :25:30. | :25:34. | |
into active Labour politics. Those of us who had been through the Neil | :25:34. | :25:37. | |
Kinnock era and Thatcher winning election after election, we remember | :25:37. | :25:41. | |
what it was like to be in that position and what it was like to be | :25:41. | :25:44. | |
in a losing and environment, and it is a very difficult place to be. | :25:44. | :25:50. | |
See, I think it'll be interesting to hear what Ed Balls has to say, but | :25:50. | :25:53. | |
one of the things that the Labour Party has not properly is rebut this | :25:53. | :25:59. | |
whole message from the coalition about the mess that we inherited. | :25:59. | :26:03. | |
Strategically, the Conservatives now do not need to have that much of a | :26:03. | :26:08. | |
recovery to be able to say, look, we inherited this mess and we are | :26:08. | :26:11. | |
starting to move on the right direction. The truth is they did not | :26:11. | :26:15. | |
inherit the mess - they inherited an international financial crisis which | :26:15. | :26:20. | |
Gordon handled pretty well, and we had ten years of growth and | :26:20. | :26:24. | |
prosperity under Labour. I think the public have been allowed to have | :26:24. | :26:27. | |
this message given, the mess we inherited. We need to challenge | :26:27. | :26:31. | |
that, and obviously most importantly it is about forward policy and the | :26:31. | :26:35. | |
policy agenda for the future, and this is the week that has to get put | :26:35. | :26:40. | |
out to the public. The public do not follow politics like you do, they do | :26:40. | :26:44. | |
not follow politics like your viewers do, who are obviously | :26:44. | :26:48. | |
interested. Most of the public are getting on with their lives, they | :26:48. | :26:51. | |
just did in and out of the debate, but between now and the election the | :26:51. | :26:54. | |
key policy platforms on which we will fight the next election, they | :26:55. | :26:58. | |
have got to be at there, they have got to be clear, they have got to | :26:58. | :27:02. | |
fit a coherent strategy, and the other thing is we have to start | :27:02. | :27:06. | |
taking lumps out of this incompetent, useless government. A | :27:06. | :27:17. | |
final point, you are in Brighton as part of your campaigning against | :27:17. | :27:19. | |
alcohol abuse and to raise awareness of these issues - some people will | :27:19. | :27:21. | |
think that taking that anti-alcohol message to a party conference is a | :27:21. | :27:22. | |
think that taking that anti-alcohol bit like taking the car ran into a | :27:23. | :27:27. | |
synagogue. How is it going? And I am here to plug a book! No, it is about | :27:27. | :27:35. | |
alcoholism. Did you have that down your trousers?! Yes, I did, you do | :27:35. | :27:39. | |
not want to go there! I would not your trousers?! Yes, I did, you do | :27:39. | :27:47. | |
take that particular copy! It is down there now. No, the points | :27:47. | :27:51. | |
today, and I saw the pictures you ran of Eddie Isard, and I was really | :27:51. | :27:56. | |
pleased to see Andy Burnham there as well, because I really hope the | :27:56. | :27:58. | |
pleased to see Andy Burnham there as Labour Party seizes this agenda, | :27:58. | :28:02. | |
because I think that on the food industry, on smoking and packaging, | :28:02. | :28:04. | |
because I think that on the food and on the alcohol industry, because | :28:04. | :28:10. | |
David Cameron went down the road of minimum unit pricing and then did a | :28:10. | :28:16. | |
reversal Eddie Burnham -- Andy Burnham did say there was a vacuum | :28:16. | :28:20. | |
in health policy. I am going to attempt to launch an attempt to all | :28:20. | :28:26. | |
parties, and I'm going to the Tories next week in Manchester for the | :28:26. | :28:29. | |
first time in 20 years, to get all the parties to commit to minimum | :28:29. | :28:33. | |
pricing and to increasing treatment availability to people who are | :28:34. | :28:38. | |
dependent drinkers, from 6%, which is pathetic, 6% of alcoholics get | :28:38. | :28:42. | |
treatment at the moment, up to 15%, which are still poultry in my view, | :28:42. | :28:46. | |
but it would be a start. And I think that you are right, these | :28:46. | :28:50. | |
conferences swim on alcohol, and if anybody wants to come tonight, | :28:50. | :28:55. | |
5:30pm in the Thistle Hotel, it will be the one who's free reception of | :28:55. | :29:01. | |
the week, hosted by me and Alcohol Concern. -- who's free. We will do a | :29:01. | :29:10. | |
hat-trick of interviews tomorrow! Do not mess up and get any food on that | :29:10. | :29:14. | |
site if it is the only one you have got. Thanks for joining us from | :29:14. | :29:16. | |
Brighton. got. Thanks for joining us from | :29:16. | :29:21. | |
We are expecting Ed Balls to address conference a little after midday, | :29:21. | :29:24. | |
but this morning it was the turn of Douglas Alexander, who was caught up | :29:24. | :29:29. | |
in the Damian McBride memoirs as well. His foreign affairs team were | :29:29. | :29:32. | |
trying to rally the party faithful, not always easy on foreign affairs, | :29:32. | :29:37. | |
but let's give you a favour -- a flavour of the conference floor. | :29:37. | :29:43. | |
When the government get it right, we flavour of the conference floor. | :29:43. | :29:49. | |
should support them. The truth is, just look at the legacy. Forces | :29:49. | :29:54. | |
housing has been neglected, forces and allowances have been cut and | :29:54. | :29:58. | |
they have been sackings of specialists who served on the front | :29:58. | :30:02. | |
line. When it came to the big vote on Syria, two government ministers | :30:02. | :30:06. | |
lock themselves away in a soundproofed cupboard and missed the | :30:06. | :30:12. | |
boat. Is there any wonder this is a government doesn't listen? These are | :30:12. | :30:17. | |
the people gave us aircraft carrier without an aircraft, they are at it | :30:17. | :30:18. | |
again. They sacked 20,000 soldiers without an aircraft, they are at it | :30:18. | :30:24. | |
to be replaced by reservists. They now have two deployed soldiers to | :30:24. | :30:28. | |
risk the private sector contract now have two deployed soldiers to | :30:28. | :30:31. | |
that was meant to find the reservists to replace the soldiers | :30:31. | :30:36. | |
that the country didn't want to lose in the first place. It's time for a | :30:36. | :30:42. | |
new era of international cooperation, it's time to reform | :30:42. | :30:46. | |
Europe and its institutions, strengthen NATO and better | :30:46. | :30:50. | |
coordinate capabilities. It is time to deepen our partnerships with Asia | :30:50. | :30:53. | |
as economic power moves inexorably to the east. We need that | :30:53. | :31:00. | |
corporation and that engagement, because you are on your own is as | :31:00. | :31:05. | |
hopeless a guide to foreign policy as it is a guide to domestic policy | :31:05. | :31:10. | |
here in the UK. Sadly the Conservatives just don't get that, | :31:10. | :31:16. | |
they never have and they never will. Douglas Alexander addressing the | :31:17. | :31:20. | |
they never have and they never will. conference this morning. We are | :31:20. | :31:22. | |
joined now by Emma Reynolds in Brighton. Welcome back to the Daily | :31:22. | :31:30. | |
Politics. Can I start on the German election results? The British Labour | :31:30. | :31:34. | |
Party and the German social Democrats are very close, lots of | :31:34. | :31:38. | |
ties between them, why did the SPD do so badly? I think the question is | :31:38. | :31:47. | |
why did Angela Merkel do so well. No, my question is what the SPD do | :31:47. | :31:53. | |
so badly, never mind her. The reason that the SPD did badly is because | :31:53. | :31:59. | |
Angela Merkel is an extremely difficult politician to deal with, | :31:59. | :32:03. | |
to oppose. I think this is really relevant. What she has done if she | :32:03. | :32:06. | |
has stolen their clothes. She has relevant. What she has done if she | :32:06. | :32:10. | |
talked about introducing minimum wages, she has talked about | :32:10. | :32:15. | |
introducing rent controls, these are policies that are more typical of | :32:15. | :32:18. | |
social Democrats, so they have really been squeezed, she has moved | :32:18. | :32:23. | |
to the centre and taken up a lot of their ground. It has been extremely | :32:23. | :32:28. | |
difficult for them to have policies that are distinctive, that's why | :32:28. | :32:31. | |
they haven't done as well as we would have liked them to do. What | :32:31. | :32:36. | |
happened in Germany hasn't happened in isolation. Why, after the slump | :32:36. | :32:43. | |
of 2008, a slump caused by capitalists, has the right one in | :32:43. | :32:52. | |
the UK, Spain, Greece, Australia, Norway, New Zealand, now Germany? | :32:52. | :32:59. | |
What is wrong with the left? I do think the results of those countries | :32:59. | :33:02. | |
are disappointing but we have also seen the centre-left win in France, | :33:02. | :33:09. | |
lead a government in Italy... That has been a big success! There are | :33:09. | :33:15. | |
nine countries in Europe where the centre-left leads the government, so | :33:15. | :33:19. | |
it is not a total wash-out for the centre-left in Europe. No, but you | :33:19. | :33:25. | |
would have thought, after the slump, which wasn't caused by trade unions | :33:25. | :33:28. | |
or pay demands or strikes or whatever, but caused by the | :33:28. | :33:32. | |
activities of bankers, surely you would have expected the left to | :33:32. | :33:37. | |
activities of bankers, surely you largely sweep the board, and they | :33:37. | :33:40. | |
haven't. So there must be something wrong with their appeal across | :33:40. | :33:46. | |
Europe if it is doing so badly. I would like the left to do better but | :33:46. | :33:53. | |
I also think that it is generally about anti-incumbency, and you have | :33:53. | :33:56. | |
seen government after government in the EU for in the last two or three | :33:56. | :34:03. | |
years, because of the economic situation -- fall. Germany is an | :34:04. | :34:10. | |
exception, because we will see if the same thing happens in Austria, | :34:10. | :34:14. | |
they may hang onto power, but this about incumbency and about the | :34:14. | :34:19. | |
economic situation of the particular country. Apart from Australia, but | :34:19. | :34:27. | |
it just shows what happens when a very divided party, in this case the | :34:27. | :34:33. | |
Australian Labour Party, when they go to the polls, they really get | :34:33. | :34:38. | |
punished. When you go to the polls that divided, you will receive the | :34:38. | :34:43. | |
same treatment. Yesterday, Ed Miliband said on the BBC that labour | :34:43. | :34:49. | |
's policy on an in out referendum for Europe was very, very clear. | :34:49. | :34:58. | |
What is that policy? We have been clear that we would keep on statute | :34:58. | :35:02. | |
the legislation that has been recently passed, couple of years | :35:02. | :35:06. | |
ago, that if there is a transfer of power from our Parliament to | :35:06. | :35:10. | |
introduce and of the European Union based in Brussels, then there would | :35:10. | :35:15. | |
be a referendum. But we have said we are opposed to the Tory promise of a | :35:15. | :35:18. | |
referendum before the end of 2017, are opposed to the Tory promise of a | :35:18. | :35:22. | |
which creates great uncertainty and could put jobs and vital foreign | :35:22. | :35:27. | |
direct investment at risk. Thank you for that. Ed Balls is on the stage. | :35:28. | :36:17. | |
last. An economy that works were just for the few but for working | :36:17. | :36:25. | |
people in every part of Britain. And conference, three and a half years | :36:25. | :36:31. | |
after the general election defeat, we have learned from that experience | :36:31. | :36:37. | |
and our time in government. Where we got things wrong on immigration | :36:37. | :36:41. | |
control, on the 10p tax rate, the next Labour government will be | :36:41. | :36:45. | |
different from the last. And where change is needed in our party, we | :36:45. | :36:50. | |
will reconnect with our members and working people across the country by | :36:50. | :36:54. | |
making necessary changes. But conference, let us also be proud of | :36:54. | :37:00. | |
what the last Labour government achieved. National minimum wage, | :37:00. | :37:05. | |
schools and hospitals rebuilt, NHS waiting times down from 18 months to | :37:05. | :37:11. | |
18 weeks. More apprenticeships, not joining the euro, 1 million more | :37:11. | :37:16. | |
this small businesses, crime down, child poverty down, and 3000 500 | :37:16. | :37:26. | |
more sure start, one of the most important reforms ever delivered by | :37:26. | :37:28. | |
more sure start, one of the most a Labour government. And conference, | :37:28. | :37:39. | |
replacing the Tory abomination that was clause 28 with civil | :37:39. | :37:45. | |
partnerships. Paving the way for a landmark reform, something that | :37:45. | :37:50. | |
wouldn't have happened without Labour votes in parliament, the | :37:50. | :37:53. | |
progressive triumph that is gay marriage. And as we look forward to | :37:53. | :38:05. | |
the general election to come, determined to win a Labour majority, | :38:05. | :38:11. | |
I want you all to know, as the Labour and co-operative MP, majority | :38:11. | :38:19. | |
just 1101, the state that David Cameron needed to win to get a Tory | :38:19. | :38:27. | |
majority in 2010, but because of our hard work and determination, the | :38:27. | :38:31. | |
seat he failed to win in 2010, I am up for the battle to come. And as | :38:31. | :38:41. | |
chair of our economic policy commission, I know this whole party | :38:41. | :38:46. | |
is up for the battle to come. And please join me in thanking my | :38:46. | :38:52. | |
co-chair, Margaret Eckert, for her continuing hard work and service to | :38:52. | :39:04. | |
this party -- Margaret Beckett. Not just over the past year but in four | :39:04. | :39:08. | |
decades in Parliament, we thank you, Margaret. And conference, as a proud | :39:08. | :39:22. | |
member of the Unison and Unite trade unions, I know to this whole | :39:22. | :39:28. | |
movement is up for the battle to come. And in the coming months, let | :39:28. | :39:33. | |
us a cure the foundations for the general election. Selecting the best | :39:33. | :39:37. | |
parliamentary candidates we have ever had, with more women candidates | :39:37. | :39:38. | |
parliamentary candidates we have in key seats than ever before. | :39:39. | :39:45. | |
Winning council seats and by-elections up and down the | :39:45. | :39:50. | |
country, with the toughest and best generation of local government | :39:50. | :39:53. | |
leaders we have ever had. Winning more seats in the European | :39:53. | :39:58. | |
elections, and let us end next year in the European elections, the stain | :39:58. | :40:00. | |
on our country 's reputation, by in the European elections, the stain | :40:00. | :40:05. | |
kicking the BNP out of the European Parliament. And conference... In | :40:05. | :40:21. | |
next September 's Scottish recommend -- referendum, now showing so | :40:21. | :40:26. | |
powerfully up there that the case for suppression is falling apart, | :40:26. | :40:30. | |
when Alex Salmond is in a state of total confusion on the single most | :40:30. | :40:35. | |
important decision a country can take on the economy, which currency | :40:35. | :40:40. | |
to have, first he wanted the euro, saying sterling was a millstone | :40:40. | :40:44. | |
around our neck, now he says he wants independence but to keep the | :40:44. | :40:48. | |
pound all the same. Let us win the argument that we are better together | :40:48. | :40:58. | |
in next year 's Scottish referendum. And let us demonstrate as Welsh | :40:58. | :41:06. | |
Labour have done so brilliantly that it is our Labour values of | :41:06. | :41:10. | |
cooperation, solidarity and social justice that best secure our union. | :41:10. | :41:18. | |
And conference, it is Labour whose leader is facing up to the need for | :41:18. | :41:22. | |
reform, leading from the front on phone hacking, on banking firm, | :41:22. | :41:28. | |
putting the crisis of the squeezed middle on the political agenda | :41:28. | :41:34. | |
before anyone else. And who on Syria, had the courage to stand up | :41:34. | :41:41. | |
and say that if the case was sound and the United Nations was properly | :41:41. | :41:45. | |
engaged, Labour would support military action but that Labour | :41:45. | :41:50. | |
would not support a gung ho prime minister putting the decision for | :41:50. | :41:52. | |
evidence in a reckless -- to conflict. Conference, Ed Miliband | :41:52. | :42:07. | |
was right. He prevailed. My friend, our leader, Britain 's next prime | :42:07. | :42:19. | |
minister, Ed Miliband. And conference, when David Cameron and | :42:19. | :42:24. | |
William Hague now have the nerve to go around saying that Parliament has | :42:24. | :42:28. | |
Mac refusal to be bounced into military action in Syria has | :42:29. | :42:37. | |
diminished Britain, let us reply, no Labour government will ever stand | :42:37. | :42:41. | |
aside when terrible expertise are committed and international law is | :42:41. | :42:46. | |
broken. -- terrible atrocities. But we know what has diminished Britain. | :42:46. | :42:53. | |
Flouncing out of a European summit, leaving Britain without influence, | :42:53. | :42:57. | |
isolated, that is what has diminished Britain. Absurdly | :42:57. | :43:02. | |
comparing Britain to Greece, and choking off business confidence and | :43:02. | :43:07. | |
our recovery, that is what has diminished Britain. Stigmatising the | :43:07. | :43:11. | |
unemployed and low paid and calling them shirkers, driving vans read our | :43:11. | :43:15. | |
streets, telling immigrants to go home, attacking our police, teachers | :43:15. | :43:20. | |
and social workers, peddling the lie that Britain is broken, that is what | :43:20. | :43:30. | |
has diminished Britain. Conference, we know who has diminished Britain. | :43:30. | :43:36. | |
We know who has diminished Britain. David Cameron has diminished | :43:36. | :43:36. | |
Britain. Although, didn't you feel a David Cameron has diminished | :43:36. | :43:49. | |
little sorry for our promise to this summer? Didn't you? -- for our Prime | :43:49. | :43:56. | |
Minister. Back in August, on the beach, changing into his swimming | :43:56. | :44:02. | |
trunks, behind that Mickey Mouse towel, captured on camera 's, | :44:02. | :44:07. | |
unflattering pictures spread across the national press conference, I | :44:07. | :44:11. | |
have in there, I know what it's like. But when Yvette saw the | :44:11. | :44:18. | |
pictures, she said, rather pointedly, she said that for a | :44:18. | :44:22. | |
46-year-old man, David Cameron looked rather slim. Slim! Who on | :44:23. | :44:28. | |
earth can she have been comparing him to? ! I just thought, for a | :44:28. | :44:40. | |
prime minister, it was a surprisingly small towel. But | :44:40. | :44:49. | |
conference, let us all agree, after the last three years, the sooner | :44:49. | :44:52. | |
David Cameron throws in the towel, the better. Conference... | :44:52. | :45:04. | |
Conference, we all remember, as Margaret has just said, what David | :45:04. | :45:13. | |
Cameron, George Osborne said on the economy three years ago - they | :45:14. | :45:17. | |
claimed in 2010 Baxter tax rises and deeper spending cuts would secure | :45:17. | :45:22. | |
the economic recovery and make it stronger. They said their plan would | :45:22. | :45:27. | |
make people better off and get the deficit down. On every test they set | :45:27. | :45:30. | |
themselves, the Prime Minister and Chancellor have failed. They did not | :45:30. | :45:35. | |
secure the recovery, they choked it off, as we want, and a flat lined | :45:36. | :45:40. | |
our economy for three wasted and damaging years. They claimed living | :45:41. | :45:46. | |
standards would rise, but they have fallen year-on-year. They made the | :45:46. | :45:49. | |
number one test of their economic credibility keeping the AAA credit | :45:49. | :45:53. | |
rating, and our country has been downgraded not once but twice. They | :45:54. | :45:59. | |
promise to balance the books by 2015, but the deficit is now said to | :45:59. | :46:07. | |
be over £90 billion. And now, after three wasted years, David Cameron | :46:07. | :46:13. | |
and George Osborne try to claim their plan has worked. Worked! It we | :46:13. | :46:17. | |
have worked for a privileged few at the top, but for the million young | :46:17. | :46:23. | |
people trapped out of work, that Tory plan has not worked at all. | :46:23. | :46:24. | |
For... For millions... For millions of | :46:25. | :46:33. | |
ordinary families worried about how to make ends meet, when wages are | :46:33. | :46:38. | |
falling and prices are rising, for the young couples struggling to get | :46:38. | :46:41. | |
on the housing ladder because the chronic shortage of homes is forcing | :46:41. | :46:47. | |
up prices, for ordinary working families, the aspirational majority | :46:47. | :46:51. | |
who work hard, pay their taxes, who wants to get on and not just get by, | :46:51. | :46:56. | |
but who are working harder for less as the cost of living keeps on | :46:56. | :47:00. | |
rising, this Tory plan is not working. And for the 400,000 | :47:00. | :47:07. | |
disabled adults forced to pay the government's perverse and deeply | :47:08. | :47:11. | |
unfair bedroom tax, this Tory plan has failed them absolutely. And that | :47:11. | :47:15. | |
is why, in our first budget, the has failed them absolutely. And that | :47:15. | :47:19. | |
next Labour government will repeal the bedroom tax. | :47:19. | :47:23. | |
So when David Cameron and George Osborne say that everything in the | :47:23. | :47:39. | |
economy is down to them, let us remind them prices rising faster | :47:39. | :47:47. | |
than wages for 38 of the 39 months since David Cameron went into | :47:47. | :47:51. | |
Downing Street, three years of flat-lining, the slowest recovery | :47:51. | :47:55. | |
for over 100 years, 1 million young people out of work, welfare spending | :47:55. | :47:59. | |
rising, more borrowing to pay for their economic failure. That is | :48:00. | :48:05. | |
their economic record, and we will not let them forget it. I say to | :48:05. | :48:11. | |
David Cameron and George Osborne, you cannot just airbrush away three | :48:11. | :48:15. | |
wasted years, you cannot just airbrush away your economic failure. | :48:15. | :48:20. | |
And, conference, as for their claim that we are all in this together, we | :48:20. | :48:31. | |
don't hear that line much anymore. And with the deficit still high and | :48:31. | :48:36. | |
ordinary families still struggling with the cost of living crisis, how | :48:36. | :48:42. | |
can it be right or fair for David Cameron and George Osborne to have | :48:42. | :48:46. | |
chosen this year to give the richest people in our country earning over | :48:46. | :48:55. | |
£150,000 a £3 billion tax cut? Isn't it is now clear whose side David | :48:55. | :49:01. | |
Cameron and jaws bottom -- George Osborne are really on? Cutting taxes | :49:01. | :49:05. | |
for hedge funds, trying to bribe working people to give up | :49:05. | :49:08. | |
for hedge funds, trying to bribe rights, country suppers at Chequers | :49:08. | :49:12. | |
for Tory party fundraisers, protecting the privileges of the few | :49:12. | :49:17. | |
while the many work hard and do not see the benefit. For all their claim | :49:17. | :49:21. | |
to be modernisers, with Cameron and Osborne, it has not been, who wants | :49:21. | :49:27. | |
to be a millionaire? It is who wants to help a millionaire. It is not | :49:27. | :49:29. | |
to be a millionaire? It is who wants phone a friend, it is cut taxes for | :49:29. | :49:34. | |
your friend. It is not 50-50, it is winner takes all. Conference, isn't | :49:34. | :49:38. | |
it about time they asked the audience? Because... Because we... | :49:38. | :49:45. | |
Because we know the truth. We know the truth. After the last three | :49:45. | :49:53. | |
years, David Cameron and George Osborne, for the few not the many, | :49:53. | :49:59. | |
more of the same, from the same old stories. And, conference, after | :49:59. | :50:04. | |
three years of stagnation, it is good news our economy has started to | :50:04. | :50:10. | |
finally started to grow again. It was going three years ago before | :50:10. | :50:14. | |
they choked it. That it was growing. So don't listen to the Tory | :50:14. | :50:18. | |
propaganda that says that Labour does not want the economy to grow, | :50:18. | :50:23. | |
what nonsense! Because when the economy was in recession, we know | :50:23. | :50:27. | |
which communities lose out. When unemployment becomes entrenched, we | :50:27. | :50:30. | |
know which constituencies suffer most. When the cost of living is | :50:30. | :50:35. | |
rising, we know which families are hardest hit. And we know that three | :50:35. | :50:42. | |
years of flat-lining, far longer than any of us expected, has caused | :50:42. | :50:47. | |
long-term damage. Businesses bankrupt, investment in capacity | :50:47. | :50:51. | |
lost, long-term unemployment entrenched. And now even as growth | :50:51. | :50:56. | |
finally returns, with prices still rising faster than wages, with | :50:56. | :51:00. | |
business investment still weak, with unemployment still rising in half | :51:00. | :51:04. | |
the country, with bank lending still falling to businesses, we cannot be | :51:04. | :51:11. | |
satisfied. For millions of people in our country, this is no recovery at | :51:11. | :51:16. | |
all. And when, around the world, emerging markets are jittery, China | :51:16. | :51:19. | |
all. And when, around the world, is slowing, oil prices are rising, | :51:19. | :51:24. | |
the eurozone is still stuck with chronic low growth, I say, this is | :51:24. | :51:28. | |
no time for complacency, to sit back with fingers crossed. That is why we | :51:28. | :51:33. | |
no time for complacency, to sit back have urged George Osborne to act to | :51:33. | :51:37. | |
secure a strong recovery, because what Britain needs now is strong | :51:37. | :51:43. | |
enough growth to catch up all that lost ground and so that everyone can | :51:43. | :51:47. | |
feel the benefit, and not the view. Not a recovery that just works. , | :51:47. | :51:51. | |
not early hikes in interest rates and mortgage rates as a weak British | :51:51. | :51:56. | |
economy hits the inflationary buffers, but a recovery that works | :51:56. | :52:00. | |
for all and is built to last. And that is why, along with voices from | :52:00. | :52:08. | |
bankrupt England and the IMF, we are right to be concerned that the | :52:08. | :52:11. | |
government is boosting housing demand. The taxpayer mortgage | :52:11. | :52:16. | |
guarantee on houses up to £600,000 in value while doing nothing about | :52:16. | :52:22. | |
the supply of housing which has fallen to its lowest level since the | :52:22. | :52:29. | |
1920s. George, its basic economic, its basic economic. If you push up | :52:29. | :52:36. | |
housing demand and do nothing to boost supply, prices go up and up, | :52:36. | :52:40. | |
and the end result is that the very people you should be helping - young | :52:40. | :52:47. | |
first-time buyers, will find it even harder to get on the housing ladder. | :52:47. | :52:57. | |
Conference, I have to ask, when we need to secure stronger growth and | :52:57. | :53:00. | |
invest for the long-term, how can it be right George Osborne to be | :53:00. | :53:04. | |
planning to cut infrastructure investment in 2015? That is why we | :53:04. | :53:10. | |
have consistently said, why the IMF have said, bring forward £10 billion | :53:10. | :53:16. | |
of infrastructure investment now. Build 400,000 affordable homes over | :53:16. | :53:22. | |
the next two years, create 500,000 jobs and thousands of | :53:22. | :53:25. | |
apprenticeships. That is the way to secure an economy that works for all | :53:25. | :53:27. | |
and is built to last. But, conference, we cannot rely on | :53:27. | :53:39. | |
George Osborne to do the right thing. And with George Osborne doing | :53:39. | :53:45. | |
the wrong things, we stand to inherit a very difficult situation. | :53:46. | :53:50. | |
After three wasted years of lost growth, far from balancing the | :53:50. | :53:56. | |
books, in 2015, there is now set to be a deficit of over £90 billion. | :53:56. | :54:01. | |
And I need to be straight with this conference and with the country | :54:01. | :54:06. | |
about what that means. The Government's day-to-day spending | :54:06. | :54:10. | |
totals in 2015-16 will be our starting point. Any changes for | :54:10. | :54:13. | |
current spending plans will need to be fully funded and send out an | :54:13. | :54:18. | |
advanced in our manifesto. There will be no more borrowing for | :54:18. | :54:21. | |
day-to-day spending, we will set out to fiscal rules to balance the | :54:21. | :54:24. | |
current budget and to get the national debt on a downward path. Of | :54:24. | :54:29. | |
course, Labour will make different choices, we will combine iron | :54:29. | :54:33. | |
discipline on spending control with a fairer approach to deficit | :54:33. | :54:36. | |
reduction. And with our 0-based review, a review of every £1 spent | :54:36. | :54:42. | |
by Government from the bottom-up, Rachel Reeves and my Shadow Cabinet | :54:42. | :54:45. | |
colleagues have begun the work of identifying savings so we can switch | :54:46. | :54:51. | |
to Labour's priorities. But we will not be able to reverse all the | :54:52. | :54:53. | |
to Labour's priorities. But we will spending cuts and tax rises that the | :54:53. | :54:56. | |
Tories have pushed through. We will have to govern with less money | :54:56. | :54:59. | |
around. The next Labour government would have to make cuts to, because | :54:59. | :55:03. | |
while jobs and growth are vital to get the deficit down, they are not | :55:03. | :55:08. | |
going to be able to magic away a £90 billion deficit at a stroke. | :55:08. | :55:13. | |
Delivering our Labour goals will be harder than at any time than we can | :55:13. | :55:17. | |
member, but it can be done - if we get people back to work, strengthen | :55:17. | :55:22. | |
the economy, cut out waste, focus relentlessly on our priorities, and | :55:22. | :55:25. | |
make sure difficult choices are not ducked but are rooted in our values, | :55:25. | :55:30. | |
fairness and common sense. So, conference, at a time in the public | :55:30. | :55:34. | |
services that pensioners rely on under such pressure, we cannot | :55:34. | :55:37. | |
continue paying the winter fuel allowance to the richest 5% of | :55:37. | :55:39. | |
pensioners. We will not be able to allowance to the richest 5% of | :55:40. | :55:44. | |
reverse the Government's cuts to child benefit for the highest | :55:44. | :55:47. | |
earners. We will keep the benefit stab at major problem reflects | :55:47. | :55:48. | |
housing costs. We will have to have stab at major problem reflects | :55:48. | :55:54. | |
a cap on structural social security. Over the long term, as our | :55:54. | :55:58. | |
population ages, there will need to be increases in the retirement age. | :55:58. | :56:02. | |
But a fairer approach to deficit reduction means we will also crack | :56:02. | :56:08. | |
down on tax avoidance, scrap the shares schemes, and reverse the tax | :56:08. | :56:12. | |
cut for hedge funds, and we will insist that all the proceeds from | :56:12. | :56:16. | |
the sale of our stakes in Lloyds and RBS are used not for a one-off | :56:16. | :56:22. | |
pre-election tax giveaway, but every penny of profit used to repay the | :56:22. | :56:27. | |
national debt. Conference, that is fiscal responsibility in the | :56:27. | :56:28. | |
national interest. And with our 0-based reviews, we | :56:28. | :56:40. | |
will make different choices, so we will ask, can we improve care and | :56:40. | :56:46. | |
save money, as Andy Burnham has proposed, by pooling Health and | :56:46. | :56:49. | |
Social Care Act a single service with a single budget and joint | :56:49. | :56:54. | |
management? And, conference, we will repeal the damaging and costly Tory | :56:54. | :56:58. | |
privatisation of our National Health Service. | :56:58. | :57:08. | |
And we will... We will ask, does it really makes sense to have separate | :57:08. | :57:15. | |
costly management and bureaucracy. Many separate governments | :57:15. | :57:19. | |
departments, agencies, fire services and police forces? -- for so many. | :57:19. | :57:23. | |
We will not pay for new free schools and police forces? -- for so many. | :57:23. | :57:26. | |
in areas where there are extra school places well parents in other | :57:26. | :57:30. | |
areas are struggling to get their children into a local school. | :57:30. | :57:36. | |
And on infrastructure, we need more long-term investment. And we will | :57:36. | :57:44. | |
assess the case for capital investment as we prepare our | :57:44. | :57:47. | |
manifesto, but we must also set the right priorities and get value for | :57:47. | :57:53. | |
money. Conference, we support investment in better transport links | :57:53. | :57:56. | |
for the future. We continue to back the idea of a new North-south rail | :57:56. | :58:03. | |
link, but under this government, the High Speed Two project has been | :58:03. | :58:05. | |
totally mismanaged, and the High Speed Two project has been | :58:05. | :58:08. | |
have shot up to £50 billion. David High Speed Two project has been | :58:08. | :58:14. | |
Cameron and George Osborne have made clear that they will go full is team | :58:14. | :58:18. | |
ahead with this project, no matter how much the costs spiral up and up. | :58:18. | :58:22. | |
They seem willing to put their own pride and urbanity above best value | :58:22. | :58:28. | |
for the taxpayer. Maria Eagle and I are clear that we will not take this | :58:28. | :58:32. | |
irresponsible approach. Let us be clear, in tough times, when there is | :58:32. | :58:37. | |
less money around and a big deficits to get down, there will be no blank | :58:37. | :58:42. | |
cheque from me as a Labour Chancellor for this project or any | :58:42. | :58:46. | |
other project, because the question is not just whether a new high-speed | :58:46. | :58:51. | |
line is a good idea or a bad idea, but whether it is the best way to | :58:51. | :58:57. | |
spend £50 billion for the future of our country. | :58:57. | :59:04. | |
Conference, in tough times, it even more important that all our | :59:04. | :59:10. | |
policies and commitments are properly costed and funded. The | :59:10. | :59:13. | |
policies and commitments are British people rightly wants to know | :59:13. | :59:17. | |
that the sums add up, so we will go one step further and ask the | :59:17. | :59:21. | |
independent Office for Budget Responsibility, the watchdog set up | :59:21. | :59:25. | |
by this government, to independently audited the costings of every single | :59:25. | :59:30. | |
individual spending and tax measure in Labour's manifesto at the next | :59:30. | :59:35. | |
election. This is the first time a Shadow Chancellor, the first time | :59:35. | :59:39. | |
any political party has ever said he wants this kind of independent | :59:39. | :59:44. | |
audit. It is a radical change from what has gone before, but it is the | :59:44. | :59:48. | |
right thing to do to help restore trust in politics, and that is why | :59:48. | :59:50. | |
we are going to do it. Conference, you know we need | :59:50. | :00:03. | |
economic responsibility and fiscal rigour. And we can't write all the | :00:03. | :00:09. | |
details of our first budget today, where we don't know the estate of | :00:09. | :00:11. | |
the economy and how bad the where we don't know the estate of | :00:11. | :00:14. | |
finances are going to be that we will inherit. But after three wasted | :00:14. | :00:19. | |
years of Tory failure, people are rightly now asking, what will Labour | :00:19. | :00:24. | |
do differently? And now, with 19 months to go to the election, this | :00:24. | :00:29. | |
week, today and tomorrow and in the coming days is the right time to set | :00:29. | :00:33. | |
out Labour's alternatives. Conference, as Liam Byrne has said, | :00:33. | :00:38. | |
Labour would stand aside without almost 1 million young people out of | :00:38. | :00:42. | |
work and when long-term unemployment is so high. We know can't make our | :00:42. | :00:45. | |
comic grow more strongly, get the cost of welfare down and deal with | :00:45. | :00:48. | |
the deficit if we are squandering the talents of so many. We will fund | :00:48. | :01:14. | |
this by repeating the tax on bank bonuses and restricting pensions tax | :01:14. | :01:18. | |
relief for the very highest earners to the same rate as the average | :01:18. | :01:22. | |
taxpayer. We will work within ploy is to make sure there will be a paid | :01:22. | :01:27. | |
job for all young people out of work for more than 12 months and adults | :01:27. | :01:31. | |
out of work for two years or more, which people will have to take or | :01:31. | :01:37. | |
lose benefits. That is welfare reform that works. That is what we | :01:37. | :01:40. | |
mean by matching rights with responsibilities, eating young | :01:40. | :01:45. | |
people into work and ending the scourge of long-term unemployment | :01:45. | :01:49. | |
once and for all. -- getting young people into work. Conference, when | :01:49. | :01:55. | |
people get into work they should always be better off, it should | :01:55. | :02:00. | |
always pay more to be in work than on benefits so we must do more to | :02:00. | :02:05. | |
make work pay. The national minimum wage is one of our proudest | :02:05. | :02:09. | |
achievements. It was opposed by the Tories every step of the way, even | :02:09. | :02:13. | |
now some Conservatives say the minimum wage should be suspended. | :02:13. | :02:19. | |
And its value has fallen by 5% in real terms since 2010. So we must | :02:19. | :02:24. | |
now fight to protect and strengthen the national minimum wage, | :02:24. | :02:26. | |
increasing the fine for those who exploit workers, strengthening it | :02:26. | :02:33. | |
and restoring its value, catching up the ground lost over the last three | :02:33. | :02:37. | |
years and encouraging employers to go further and pay the minimum -- | :02:37. | :02:48. | |
living wage. And conference, to move Labour on from the past, to put it | :02:48. | :02:52. | |
where it should always be, on the side of working people, we will | :02:52. | :02:56. | |
introduce a new 10p starting rate of tax will stop a tax cut for 25 | :02:56. | :03:02. | |
million hard-working people on minimum and lower incomes. And we | :03:02. | :03:13. | |
will pay for it by introducing a mansion tax on property is worth | :03:13. | :03:21. | |
over £2 million. -- properties. Introduced in a fair way, so that | :03:21. | :03:25. | |
foreign investors who buy a property in London to make a profit will | :03:25. | :03:29. | |
finally make a proper tax contribution to our country. But the | :03:29. | :03:42. | |
many families, high childcare costs are a real problem, it can mean it | :03:42. | :03:45. | |
many families, high childcare costs doesn't even add up to go to work. | :03:45. | :03:49. | |
Childcare is a vital part of our doesn't even add up to go to work. | :03:49. | :03:55. | |
economic infrastructure. That alongside family support and | :03:55. | :03:58. | |
flexible working should give parents the choice to stay at home with | :03:58. | :04:01. | |
their children when they are very small, and balance work and | :04:01. | :04:03. | |
their children when they are very as they grow older. To make work pay | :04:03. | :04:09. | |
for families, we must act. Stephen Twigg said that yesterday how we | :04:09. | :04:13. | |
will guarantee childcare available for all primary school children from | :04:13. | :04:20. | |
8am until 6pm. And today, I want to go further. As we need to do more | :04:20. | :04:25. | |
for families with nursery age children, too. Conference, here is | :04:25. | :04:31. | |
how we can. After the financial crisis, it is right that the banks | :04:31. | :04:36. | |
make a greater contribution. In the last financial year, the banks made | :04:36. | :04:41. | |
a staggering £2.7 billion less in overall tax than in 2010. Over the | :04:41. | :04:46. | |
last two years, the government 's bank levy has raised 1.6 billion | :04:46. | :04:52. | |
less than even they said it would. At a time when resources are tight | :04:52. | :04:55. | |
and families are under pressure, that's not right, and we will act. | :04:55. | :05:00. | |
The next Labour government will increase the bag levy rate to raise | :05:00. | :05:04. | |
an extra £800 million and we will use the money for families where all | :05:04. | :05:08. | |
parents want to work and are in work, to increase free childcare for | :05:08. | :05:11. | |
three-year-olds and four-year-olds work, to increase free childcare for | :05:11. | :05:28. | |
from 15 hours to 25 hours. For parents in work, free childcare for | :05:28. | :05:32. | |
three-year-olds and four-year-olds from 15 to 25 hours a week, for the | :05:32. | :05:39. | |
first time, parents able to work part time without having to worry at | :05:39. | :05:42. | |
all about the cost of childcare, that is what we mean by making work | :05:42. | :05:47. | |
pay. That's what we mean by tackling the cost of living crisis, that is a | :05:47. | :05:52. | |
radical transformation in the provision of childcare in our | :05:52. | :06:01. | |
country. And conference, we need a radical transformation in our | :06:01. | :06:05. | |
economy. Because the countries that radical transformation in our | :06:05. | :06:10. | |
succeed now are those that exploit the huge opportunities that digital | :06:10. | :06:21. | |
media and education, medical technology are coming, will Britain | :06:21. | :06:23. | |
seize this opportunity or squander it? As we and | :06:23. | :06:27. | |
seize this opportunity or squander know there is no future in trying to | :06:27. | :06:31. | |
undercut the merging market economies like India, China and | :06:31. | :06:36. | |
Brazil on wages and cost. That's why so many companies look at this | :06:36. | :06:40. | |
government 's record on industrial policy with increasing dismay. The | :06:40. | :06:49. | |
Heseltine growth review muted, the British bank a damp squib, | :06:49. | :06:53. | |
apprenticeships for young people actually falling. Energy policy in | :06:53. | :06:54. | |
chaos. On infrastructure, dither, actually falling. Energy policy in | :06:54. | :07:02. | |
delay and inaction. We cannot succeed with this race to the | :07:02. | :07:06. | |
bottom, with laissez faire deregulation and trickle-down | :07:06. | :07:10. | |
economic. Because it's NRO and defeatist vision, it is doomed to | :07:10. | :07:13. | |
fail and we have seen it fail before. Just look at the British car | :07:14. | :07:19. | |
industry in the 70s and 80s, trying to compete on cost, cutting back on | :07:19. | :07:24. | |
innovation, quality and skills, played by terrible industrial | :07:24. | :07:28. | |
relations. And now look at the Renaissance in Jaguar Land Rover, | :07:28. | :07:31. | |
creating thousands more jobs, exporting around the world, not by | :07:31. | :07:35. | |
cutting corners but waste of world-class, long-term investment in | :07:35. | :07:40. | |
innovation, skills and supply chains. We are determined to learn | :07:40. | :07:45. | |
from that success and that is why we can announce executive director of | :07:45. | :07:53. | |
Land Rover will now lead a review for us on how we can help strengthen | :07:53. | :07:57. | |
our supply chains and deliver the skills and innovation Britain needs | :07:57. | :08:03. | |
to succeed. Following the review on short-term is, we will change | :08:03. | :08:07. | |
takeover rules and corporate incentives and reform taxes to stop | :08:07. | :08:12. | |
asset stripping in the short-term and instead, support long-term | :08:12. | :08:16. | |
investment. And why not use any revenues from the planned increase | :08:16. | :08:19. | |
in the license fees for the mobile phone spectrum, expected to be over | :08:19. | :08:25. | |
£1 billion in the next Parliament, to capitalise the British investment | :08:25. | :08:29. | |
bank so that region by region, we can get small businesses, the | :08:29. | :08:34. | |
finance they need to grow and create jobs. Conference, we will set up an | :08:34. | :08:43. | |
independent infrastructure commission has recommended by the | :08:43. | :08:46. | |
chair of the Olympic delivery authority, to end either and delay | :08:46. | :08:52. | |
in infrastructure planning. We will legislate for us to get free banking | :08:52. | :08:56. | |
code of conduct and demand real reform and cultural change from the | :08:56. | :08:59. | |
banks. We will legislate for a decarbonisation, and unlock billions | :08:59. | :09:05. | |
of pounds of investment in renewables, nuclear, clean coal | :09:05. | :09:10. | |
technology and we will give the green investment bank borrowing | :09:10. | :09:15. | |
powers it needs to do it is job. That is what the next Labour | :09:15. | :09:28. | |
government will do. So conference, even in difficult times, even as we | :09:28. | :09:33. | |
face a huge deficit, we will rise to the challenge. We will build an | :09:33. | :09:37. | |
economy that works for the many and not just a few at the top. And we | :09:37. | :09:43. | |
know it can be done. Because we have done it before. Conference, we are | :09:43. | :09:46. | |
know it can be done. Because we have not the first Labour generation to | :09:46. | :09:53. | |
face a huge deficit and the need for spending restraint and a country | :09:53. | :09:56. | |
crying out the change. We are not the first generation to be awed by | :09:56. | :10:00. | |
the scale of what needs to be done, to transform our country. As we | :10:00. | :10:04. | |
prepare for the 20 15th general election, to be held in the 70th | :10:04. | :10:11. | |
anniversary year of the Second World War, let us take inspiration from | :10:11. | :10:15. | |
the great reforming Labour government of 1945. Conference, that | :10:15. | :10:25. | |
past Labour generation faced huge economic and fiscal challenges. But | :10:26. | :10:36. | |
they did not flinch. And they built lasting change. New homes for | :10:36. | :10:39. | |
returning heroes, universal welfare state and national health of which | :10:39. | :10:45. | |
65 years on is still weak and four British values, for all and not just | :10:45. | :10:58. | |
a privilege few. -- privileged few. So conference, let us not be the | :10:58. | :11:03. | |
a privilege few. -- privileged few. Labour generation that fringed in | :11:03. | :11:09. | |
the face of hardship. Let us show we will not duck the great challenges | :11:09. | :11:12. | |
we are going to face on spending and the deficit. And let us build an | :11:13. | :11:19. | |
economy that works for all working families, in every part of our | :11:19. | :11:22. | |
country. And in the coming weeks and months, when people ask what would a | :11:22. | :11:27. | |
Labour government do? Let's go out and tell them. Jobs for young people | :11:27. | :11:30. | |
guaranteed. Expanding free childcare, a British investment | :11:30. | :11:34. | |
bank, infrastructure delivered, green investment unlock, the deficit | :11:34. | :11:42. | |
down fairly, tax cuts for millions, not the millionaires. Reforming our | :11:42. | :11:47. | |
banks, the NHS saved, tackling tax avoidance, rail fares capped, the | :11:47. | :11:53. | |
bedroom tax scrapped, building the homes we need. That is what a Labour | :11:53. | :11:57. | |
government could do. Let's come together, go out there and make it | :11:57. | :11:59. | |
happen. Thank you, conference. They get to their feet as Ed Balls | :11:59. | :12:10. | |
finishes his address as Shadow Chancellor. He spoke for just over | :12:10. | :12:16. | |
half an hour. The new story in it, he started to distance himself from | :12:16. | :12:23. | |
HS2, the rail line from London to Birmingham, originally a Labour idea | :12:23. | :12:25. | |
picked up by the Coalition Government but he seems to be | :12:25. | :12:28. | |
worried about the escalating cost of it. He says there is no blank cheque | :12:28. | :12:34. | |
for it and he wants to review it along with all the other | :12:34. | :12:37. | |
infrastructure projects he might get involved in. He also said he wanted | :12:38. | :12:42. | |
the Office for Budget Responsibility to look at his sons and spending | :12:42. | :12:47. | |
plans, to get an endorsement, to get them independently audited. He took | :12:47. | :12:53. | |
awhile to get the economy, even though he is Shadow Chancellor, he | :12:53. | :12:57. | |
spent the first pages of his speech sounding more like the Labour | :12:57. | :13:00. | |
leader, but I'm sure there is nothing in that. He promised tough | :13:00. | :13:05. | |
fiscal constraints, he wants a compulsory jobs guarantee. He will | :13:05. | :13:12. | |
pay for that with a tax on bankers bonuses, takeaway pension relief | :13:12. | :13:16. | |
from the highest earners, so everybody gets it at the basic rate | :13:16. | :13:20. | |
of tax. He wants to encourage a living wage and he wants up a levy | :13:20. | :13:23. | |
of tax. He wants to encourage a to be able to pay for more child | :13:23. | :13:28. | |
care. These are the highlights of his speech. We are joined by Sajid | :13:28. | :13:34. | |
Javid to get some reaction to that. Would you make of that? I'm made of | :13:34. | :13:42. | |
that that he is showing a lack of confidence. The conservative | :13:42. | :13:49. | |
government is embarking on a massive £50 billion investment in | :13:49. | :13:52. | |
infrastructure, which tells us that they know that the government as to | :13:52. | :13:57. | |
invest in infrastructure in order to get the economy ticking again. And | :13:57. | :14:04. | |
yet what he is saying is that he's not talking about that, talks about | :14:04. | :14:09. | |
that in a small way, what he's emphasising is he will raise taxes | :14:09. | :14:15. | |
to pay for childcare and to pay for jobs guarantees. But he is losing is | :14:15. | :14:19. | |
the big picture, which the Tory government has finally got, which is | :14:19. | :14:23. | |
the only way you're going to get the revenue you need to bring down the | :14:23. | :14:28. | |
deficit is to invest in infrastructure, stimulate the | :14:28. | :14:30. | |
private sector and then your tax revenues will flow. He's suggesting | :14:30. | :14:36. | |
that HS2 may not be the most productive way of doing that. He | :14:36. | :14:40. | |
wants a rail line to the North but his wandering why it is so | :14:40. | :14:41. | |
expensive. But here you have his wandering why it is so | :14:41. | :14:47. | |
political consensus between all the parties, that £50 billion is needed | :14:47. | :14:51. | |
to kick-start something, in this case for HS2. We have agreement, so | :14:51. | :14:58. | |
the salami slicing around little bits per childcare here and there, | :14:58. | :15:03. | |
that is not what it is about. What did you make of it? Clearly he wants | :15:03. | :15:10. | |
to criticise the Tories further economic policy and he talks about | :15:10. | :15:13. | |
these wasted years of stagnation. What is the real case is that after | :15:13. | :15:18. | |
a global financial crisis, we were never going to recover properly. | :15:18. | :15:23. | |
There has been plenty of analysis, and they take a long time to recover | :15:24. | :15:29. | |
from. The matter who was in charge, we would have years of negative | :15:30. | :15:34. | |
growth and an economy that flat lined -- no matter who was in | :15:34. | :15:39. | |
charge. What is interesting is the economy starting to bloom now. Boom? | :15:39. | :15:47. | |
Many economists are now predicting 3% growth. The profession always | :15:47. | :15:57. | |
gets the amplitude wrong, and it is not until the data comes out | :15:57. | :16:01. | |
properly years later that we realise the down periods were a lot more | :16:01. | :16:05. | |
than and the other periods were a lot more of. So that is what I | :16:05. | :16:09. | |
think, he has missed that. Let me bring in Sajid Javid, the fact is | :16:09. | :16:14. | |
that the economy did not go for three years. We inherited an economy | :16:14. | :16:19. | |
that had just experienced the mother of all recessions, the deepest | :16:19. | :16:23. | |
recession we had seen in peacetime. There was a worldwide financial | :16:23. | :16:27. | |
crash. That did not mean we have to have the biggest deficit of any | :16:27. | :16:33. | |
industrialised country. But our financial services were bigger, so | :16:33. | :16:36. | |
it was going to hit us more. That is because we took our eye off the | :16:37. | :16:39. | |
ball, and when the alarm bells were ringing, no one was listening | :16:40. | :16:43. | |
because we changed the regulatory system. You never objected. With the | :16:43. | :16:50. | |
encouragement of the Conservative Party. We voted against those | :16:50. | :16:54. | |
changes, and Peter Lilley said it would be a field day. It is and | :16:54. | :16:58. | |
groups, and he has been proven right. But you were urging for less | :16:58. | :17:06. | |
regulation. What was important, what I took away from Ed Balls' speech | :17:06. | :17:09. | |
regulation. What was important, what just now is that, first of all, | :17:09. | :17:13. | |
let's look at the words he did not use. He did not say plan be, too far | :17:13. | :17:17. | |
too fast, he did not say triple dip, recession made in Downing | :17:17. | :17:22. | |
Street. Why? Because he knows he has lost the economic argument. The | :17:22. | :17:25. | |
economy is recovering, I would not say it is booming but it is turning | :17:25. | :17:29. | |
the corner. There are still a lot of work to do, and Ed Balls knows that. | :17:29. | :17:38. | |
Now he has not got any policies, other than what he has been talking | :17:39. | :17:40. | |
Now he has not got any policies, about. You would have thought he | :17:40. | :17:42. | |
would have learned the lesson, but it is about more spending and debt. | :17:42. | :17:45. | |
By 2015, will people be worse off or better off than 2010? I hope they | :17:45. | :17:49. | |
will be better off. They are not now. That is our target, to make | :17:49. | :17:54. | |
sure that everyone feels the benefits of economic recovery, and | :17:54. | :17:57. | |
if we are going to do that we have to be serious about tackling our | :17:57. | :18:01. | |
record budget deficit. We have to keep interest rates low and major | :18:01. | :18:06. | |
our economy keeps generating jobs. It is generating jobs today faster | :18:06. | :18:10. | |
than any other country in the G7. There are more people employed today | :18:10. | :18:13. | |
in Britain than at any other time in our history. Excuse me, the Governor | :18:13. | :18:19. | |
of the Bank of England has made it clear you cannot have a substantial | :18:19. | :18:22. | |
fall in unemployment and low interest rates, it is one or the | :18:22. | :18:25. | |
other, what do you want going into 2015, unemployment below 7% or | :18:26. | :18:33. | |
interest rates at 0.5%? We are going to keep focusing on bringing | :18:33. | :18:37. | |
unemployment is down, and the claimant level is coming down. If | :18:37. | :18:40. | |
you look at the forecasts of the major bodies, the major think tank | :18:40. | :18:46. | |
said so forth, they are showing increasing economic growth. I | :18:46. | :18:51. | |
understand that, so in return for unemployment going below 7%, | :18:51. | :18:53. | |
understand that, so in return for although I am not sure it will by | :18:53. | :18:56. | |
2015, although it could, under what you're saying, you are happy to see | :18:56. | :19:01. | |
interest rates rise? That is what the governor says. I think if we | :19:01. | :19:05. | |
stick to our economic policy, which is bringing back confidence, keeping | :19:05. | :19:08. | |
stick to our economic policy, which interest rates low, keeping mortgage | :19:08. | :19:13. | |
rates low, and if the Bank of England decides to do that, it is up | :19:13. | :19:16. | |
to them. With this forward guidance, the governor has told us | :19:16. | :19:20. | |
that if unemployment falls below 7%, he will take it as a sign that the | :19:21. | :19:25. | |
economy is under way and interest rates will have to rise. You | :19:25. | :19:28. | |
comfortable to go into the next election rising interest rates? I | :19:28. | :19:36. | |
trust his judgment. That is not the answer to my question. You are | :19:36. | :19:40. | |
comfortable with rising interest rates? Once the economy starts to | :19:40. | :19:43. | |
recover, and right now we're just the corner, and we have to keep | :19:43. | :19:49. | |
working, it is not a judgment for the government to make. What we have | :19:49. | :19:53. | |
got to do is keep focusing on the deficit, keep reducing taxes on | :19:53. | :19:58. | |
business to generate jobs. Coming back to living standards, at the | :19:58. | :20:01. | |
moment they are substantially below 2010, when you came into power. | :20:01. | :20:05. | |
Prices have consistently risen higher than wages in the public and | :20:05. | :20:10. | |
private sectors. Can I get it clear, are you telling us that that will no | :20:10. | :20:14. | |
longer be the case by 2015, that he will fight the next election with | :20:14. | :20:18. | |
living standards higher than 2010? What I am saying is that we will | :20:18. | :20:22. | |
keep working hard to help people with their living standards and the | :20:22. | :20:23. | |
keep working hard to help people best way to do that is the root | :20:23. | :20:27. | |
page, full-time employment. The fact that the economy is generating jobs | :20:27. | :20:32. | |
faster than anyone else in the G7 is a good thing. Will people be better | :20:32. | :20:38. | |
off or not by 2015? I hope so, but I cannot judge the future. Will you | :20:38. | :20:43. | |
let the office for budget responsible do to an independent | :20:43. | :20:51. | |
audit on Mr Balls' manifesto policies? -- the office of budget | :20:51. | :20:53. | |
responsible to. We created this office in the first | :20:53. | :21:01. | |
place because Gordon Brown fiddled the figures whenever he felt like | :21:01. | :21:04. | |
it, so we have this independent office... That would politicise it. | :21:04. | :21:12. | |
You will not allow it? It would require primary legislation, so it | :21:12. | :21:15. | |
is high in the sky to even think about it. That is not what the Tory | :21:15. | :21:19. | |
chairman of the banking committee says. It would require primary | :21:20. | :21:24. | |
legislation, and Ed Balls has used this Ahmed is a bit of a stunt to | :21:24. | :21:26. | |
take us away from the real argument, this Ahmed is a bit of a stunt to | :21:26. | :21:30. | |
which is an unfunded spending commitments. -- this argument. Thank | :21:30. | :21:36. | |
you for your figures. These are Treasury figures that I have | :21:36. | :21:41. | |
collected. Let's go now, fresh from the speech, to the Shadow Treasury | :21:41. | :21:45. | |
minister, Chris Leslie. Welcome to the Daily Politics. Ed Balls | :21:45. | :21:48. | |
minister, Chris Leslie. Welcome to made it clear that he will stick to | :21:48. | :21:51. | |
the existing coalition spending plans if he is in power for 2015-16, | :21:51. | :21:57. | |
but that is only the first year of any future Labour government, and it | :21:57. | :22:00. | |
does not include capital spending, so you could unleash, put the taps | :22:00. | :22:07. | |
on for 2016? You have only committed to one year, correct? ? We had their | :22:07. | :22:18. | |
Spending Review in 2015-16 in the summer, that one year, and we are | :22:18. | :22:21. | |
only able to talk about that starting point in the context of the | :22:21. | :22:24. | |
announcements that the Chancellor has made. Sadly, that is the bases | :22:24. | :22:39. | |
we are starting from the -- there, even though we have this deficit. | :22:40. | :22:44. | |
You could tell us what your pistol rules would be for the subsequent | :22:44. | :22:47. | |
years, because at the moment we have no idea, and you may be very much by | :22:47. | :22:52. | |
stopping in year one, but you could go back to your profligate ways in | :22:52. | :22:57. | |
years two, three and four. Well, no, look, I think it is a commitment | :22:57. | :23:01. | |
that is quite important for opposition to make. People want to | :23:01. | :23:05. | |
know how we would approach fiscal policy, and I think the fact that we | :23:05. | :23:10. | |
are recognising that we are still going to have a legacy of the | :23:10. | :23:15. | |
deficits despite all the promises that George Osborne made, that it | :23:15. | :23:18. | |
would balance the books, that deficit is still going to be very | :23:18. | :23:22. | |
considerable indeed, and therefore it is only the responsible thing to | :23:22. | :23:26. | |
say to the public, you know, we cannot magic that away, we will have | :23:26. | :23:30. | |
to use it as a starting point, the plans that they have sat out. If | :23:30. | :23:34. | |
Sajid Javid and others are going to be decked for future years, we will | :23:34. | :23:39. | |
look at that at that point. -- going to project. Let me ask you a couple | :23:39. | :23:44. | |
of details, very important details on mansion tax - on houses worth | :23:44. | :23:50. | |
more than £2 million, will that mansion tax be on the value above £2 | :23:50. | :23:54. | |
million, or on the whole value of the house? Well, it will not be | :23:54. | :24:00. | |
hitting anybody with properties below £2 million. I am not asking | :24:00. | :24:06. | |
that. We need to have an approach to the mansion tax that looks at those | :24:06. | :24:11. | |
properties... I understand that. It is only on those amounts. Know, | :24:11. | :24:18. | |
clarify that for me. Let me ask you the question again, it is very | :24:18. | :24:23. | |
important - is it on the value over £2 million, supposing it is £3 | :24:23. | :24:27. | |
million, the value of the house, is it on that final £1 million, or | :24:27. | :24:32. | |
visit on the full £3 million? Well, no, the rate of tax would be | :24:32. | :24:39. | |
dependent on the calculation is of the numbers of properties at that | :24:39. | :24:43. | |
point in time worth... Am not asking you the raid. Let me finish, please. | :24:43. | :24:49. | |
I have to finish the sentence to explain it. The Government, for | :24:49. | :24:53. | |
example, have just introduced a new regime called the annual tax on | :24:53. | :24:57. | |
envelope dwellings for £2 million and above, where they are owned by | :24:57. | :25:01. | |
companies. The Government, the Treasury have all the methodology | :25:01. | :25:04. | |
for dealing with high-value properties of £2 million and above, | :25:04. | :25:10. | |
the question is, why would they extended... The question is, no, Mr | :25:10. | :25:15. | |
Leslie, the question is quite simple, and you have yet to answer | :25:15. | :25:20. | |
it! Let me try one more time. If we look at a house that is valued at £3 | :25:20. | :25:24. | |
million, above the £2 million that you have said will be where the | :25:24. | :25:28. | |
mansion tax kicks in, will be you have said will be where the | :25:28. | :25:32. | |
mansion tax, whatever level it is, will it fall just on the incremental | :25:32. | :25:37. | |
1 million, or will it fall on the full 3 million? Well, obviously, on | :25:37. | :25:42. | |
the incremental, because properties below £2 million will not be | :25:42. | :25:43. | |
affected by this. They will not be below £2 million will not be | :25:43. | :25:47. | |
classified as mansions. The Liberal Democrats came up with a proposal | :25:47. | :25:52. | |
that they think around £2 million can be raised from this, so it is | :25:52. | :25:56. | |
not just something that is the preserve of the Labour Party. You | :25:56. | :26:00. | |
have not and my question, that is fine, that is your privilege. No, | :26:00. | :26:08. | |
you do not like the answer. No, I do not understand, because you have not | :26:08. | :26:11. | |
and said on that distinction. How big will the bankers' levy have to | :26:11. | :26:17. | |
be to raise the extra 800 million? Well, the bank levy was supposed to | :26:17. | :26:23. | |
be yielding £2.5 billion from the moment at which the Chancellor | :26:23. | :26:27. | |
designed it in the way that he did. It was unusual, because he set out | :26:27. | :26:30. | |
the amount that he was targeting explicitly, 2.5 billion in every | :26:30. | :26:35. | |
year. Every year in the House of Commons we have had that debate, it | :26:35. | :26:40. | |
raised, I think, 1.8 billion... He has had to increase it. And every | :26:40. | :26:43. | |
raised, I think, 1.8 billion... He year he has failed to get it. How | :26:43. | :26:48. | |
big will you make it? We believe that it needs to be, the methodology | :26:48. | :26:54. | |
needs to be adjusted so we can get the extra £800 million, and we would | :26:54. | :26:58. | |
use that, importantly, to increase the hours of free childcare from | :26:59. | :27:04. | |
15... I know what you are going to do, I understand that. You are going | :27:04. | :27:08. | |
to use the money for that, I just wondered what the rate would be. | :27:08. | :27:14. | |
Finally, briefly, do you take 800 million out of the banks, it is less | :27:14. | :27:17. | |
they will have to lead to small businesses, correct question me I do | :27:17. | :27:23. | |
not accept that. Banks have all sorts of reserves, they have costs, | :27:23. | :27:29. | |
compensation, as they call it, to senior management. They are more | :27:29. | :27:34. | |
than able to deal with the £2.5 billion that George Osborne said | :27:35. | :27:38. | |
they should be paying. Why hasn't he got that amount of them? It is a | :27:38. | :27:42. | |
scandal, the banks are paying less and less tax under this government. | :27:42. | :27:47. | |
All right, we have run out of time. Everyone else is paying more. Oh, | :27:47. | :27:54. | |
still going! Just time to get the answer to the quiz, which film | :27:54. | :27:59. | |
doesn't make Ed Balls cry? I have got no idea, Bambi, he did not cry | :27:59. | :28:03. | |
at Bambi. I do not know why you would cry at the Antiques Roadshow | :28:03. | :28:06. | |
at Bambi. I do not know why you but not at Bambi! What kind | :28:06. | :28:08. | |
at Bambi. I do not know why you person is that?! Anyway, there you | :28:08. | :28:13. | |
go. Thanks to our guests today, you have had to sit through the party | :28:13. | :28:18. | |
conference speech. We have got more of it next week with the Tories! | :28:18. | :28:23. | |
Sorry that we did not renew Adam's mood box, I have heard it is very | :28:23. | :28:28. | |
good. Thanks to all of our guests. The one o'clock news is starting on | :28:28. | :28:31. | |
BBC One, James Landale will be hosting today at conference after | :28:31. | :28:38. | |
Newsnight on BBC Two. And we will be back tomorrow, Jo and I, with not | :28:38. | :28:41. | |
one but two programmes on the Labour back tomorrow, Jo and I, with not | :28:41. | :28:46. | |
conference, what value we give you! From midday, and normal conference | :28:46. | :28:49. | |
Marshall, then a quick break, back at two o'clock for a very important | :28:49. | :28:55. | |
speech for Ed Miliband. Goodbye! | :28:56. | :28:57. |