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Afternoon folks, welcome to the Daily Politics. The weather in


Brighton's rather unremarkable, unlike the Labour conference, which


is turning into rather a stormy affair. Mainly because of a former


spin doctor and a certain book he'd like to sell. But fear not my policy


wonks, there is substance to the event too. In fact it's been hard to


keep Mr Miliband quiet. He's been keen to take centre stage - or at


least centre table - to announce he'd reverse the so-called bedroom


tax, he's been offering child care sweeteners and a brand new


apprenticeship scheme. Today the Shadow Chancellor Ed Balls will be


taking the limelight, fleshing out the party's economic policy. Let's


hope his strategy for the country is better than his footballing skills.


Should it be move over Balls, come back Darling? Adam's been putting


the "who should be Shadow Chancellor conundrum" to the mood box test. Who


would you rather hang out with? Ed conundrum" to the mood box test. Who


Balls. He is just so hunky! And we'll have you spinning in your


armchairs till you're dizzy with not one but two former spin doctors on


the programme. Messrs Campbell and Wheelan. It could get ugly!


All that in the next 90 minutes, and with us for the whole programme


today we've got two top economists - the financial analyst, Louise Cooper


and Ann Pettifor who was one of the few economists to forsee the


economic crisis. She's in her prime. Welcome to you both. So it's


Labour's annual big bash, time for the party to put a little bit of


flesh to its bones, so to speak, and the party Leader Ed Miliband has


been busy making a series of major policy announcements. First came


confirmation that Labour would scrap what it calls the bedroom tax - a


housing benefit cut for people living in social housing with spare


bedrooms. Mr Miliband's also promised all parents of primary


school children guaranteed access to childcare through their school from


8am to 6pm. And he wants big firms to train up an apprentice every time


they bring in a worker from outside the EU. Shadow Chancellor Ed Balls


is also getting in on the act, pledging to increase free childcare


for three and four-year-olds of working parents from the current 15


hours to 25 hours a week. But how much will all this cost and how will


the party pay for it all? The Conservatives claim Labour's now


made almost £28 billion of unfunded spending commitments. Ed Balls'


answer to this is that he wants the Office for Budget Responsibility to


scrutinise all Labour's tax and spending plans before the election.


It's Labour making itself vulnerable to the charge that it is a tax and


spend party again? I think it is, actually. It is engaged in petty


politics, it seems, and salami slice economic 's. A bit of this and a bit


of that. Childcare here, tax increases there, where is the


wreath, I would ask. We want the big picture, the big story, we want


hope. Instead, what we are getting is these slices of economic policy,


which don't add up. They are not part of a big vision. I have to say,


I don't agree with the need to actually finance childcare with tax


rises. We can do it by increasing economic activity. In particular,


jobs and employment. That is what Labour is there to do. But they are


going to tell us they're not good to do what they did in the past. All


political parties have to get used to the fact there is no money


around, they have to tighten their belts, and make sure they stay


within a tight financial straitjacket. But that is not what


it seems. Of course, politicians love to announce grandly and loudly


their plans for spending. What you rarely hear that transfer how


they're going to finance it. That is my key criticism of what they are


doing now. You give us your plans, we want to know how you will fund


them. Remember, the deficit-cutting continues for many, many years. In


2015 to 2016, which is what we're talking about, what we are still


expecting to have a 90 billion deficit. So we are still spending 19


Ilium more than we are getting in taxation. -- 90 billion. So it is


not like that will be a year of plenty. Ed Balls will announce 25


hours of free childcare, and he will finance it by taxing the banks, but


I put this to you. George Osborne has already been doing it. He has


increased the rank levy because he's not getting as much as he says he


wants out of it. Financial services are in decline in this country now,


is there really scope to do it this way? To be honest, our economy is in


so much trouble, we can't really be taking more out of it than it is


capable of creating. So what is wrong with this is the idea that you


finance 1-piece with a bit of tax rises here, the way in which to fix


the budget deficit is to increase employment. We have 2.5 million


people in the country are unemployed, it is a mass and


employment situation, we had never lived with so much unemployment for


so long. There was 3 million unemployed in the 80s? For most of


the 80s. But it would deal with unemployment, the deficit will look


after itself. I wonder if he understands that if it takes 800


million out of the banks, it is that much of their capital, which given


that banks use leverage, banks will therefore be lending to the economy,


which is what petitions say, billions and billions less. If you


take money out of the banking sector, it cannot lend as much, that


is the maths. I wonder if he realises that. We will speak to his


spokesman Chris Leslie later. Earlier this morning Ed Balls was


interviewed on BBC Breakfast. Asked by Bill Turnbull whether he'd ever


been involved in the same kind of negative briefing as Damian McBride,


the Shadow Chancellor was keen to emphasise his new-found cuddly


credentials. That's not something I have ever done, it is the wrong way


to do politics. He says he has done those things, it was despicable, the


wrong thing to do. Critics is tough, and they have been times in the past


where I have had strong arguments with Tony Blair, with Gordon Brown


where I have had strong arguments on different issues, but I have


always done that in an open way. This kind of negative, nasty


briefing is wrong, but also, it's a thing of the past. That Iran is


gone, it is not how Ed Miliband and I are doing things in the Labour


Party is gone. -- that era is gone. We are in a better place now. We all


are nowadays! So are the Brownites and the


Blairites at war? Can they give it up and get proper jobs? Who better


to give us the mood of conference than a couple of tabloid hacks. I


should fire whoever called you that! The Mirror's Kevin Maguire and the


Sun's Emily Ashton. Welcome to you both. Kevin, what are they talking


about in the pubs and bars and lounges of Brighton? Quantitative


easing or Damian McBride? If you say that, it is more Damien Wright, but


actually there is surprisingly little, because that is at a level


for the people who come here, they take a week off work and pay their


own way. But there is some chatter around that, it is the recent past


but what they are talking about really is how terrible the Tories


are, you get a lot of that. Thank really is how terrible the Tories


you for that scoop! But it tells you something about the mindset, Andrew,


it is always looking at the Coalition, attacking them. As I


think coming some way behind is a discussion about where labour is,


the policies, the bedroom tax, but also that talk about Ed Miliband


two. At best, you will get people saying he has to do better. Do you


agree with that? I was in a bar last night... I can see! Everybody was


talking about McBride. There were a lot of MPs around, a lot of ex-MPs,


everybody was saying, and my name checked in the book? It is pure


gossip. But maybe this is an out there on the streets as much as the


cost of living prices, but the fact that Ed Miliband and Ed Balls were


involved in this is actually an issue for real people as well as


journalists and MPs who are here. I am told that Gordon Brown has


descended and is on the conference -- at the conference. Is there any


chance he is good to say something about this? Absolutely, really, the


person who loses out most is Gordon Brown, who include Damian McBride,


and as he said, actually kind of knew who what was going on -- who


employed Damian McBride. If we fighting, I will ask him! I didn't


know he was here. But he can sometimes be elusive. You always


learn something when you are on the Daily Politics. Kevin mentioned that


a lot of Labour activists think Ed Miliband has to do better. Would I


a lot of Labour activists think Ed be right in thinking they may think


that even more after his interview with Andrew Marr yesterday, got


pretty bad reviews in the papers are even in the Labour papers? I think


this is all about showing that Ed even in the Labour papers? I think


Miliband can be prime minister, and I'm not sure he has put in flesh on


the bones, he talks about minimum wage, cracking down on employers who


don't pay it, and raising the minimum wage, but there is no detail


on those policies. Until he does that, you can't really take him


seriously as the next party leader in government. But it you think of


his performance yesterday? I wish I had watched it with my eyes closed,


he sits rather awkwardly, he keeps looking down, it's a visual medium


and if someone looks awkward on the looking down, it's a visual medium


TV, you think there aren't as are going to be awkward. I wasn't as


critical as many people, because there are signs of a manifesto and a


programme, and yes, there are chunks missing, we are 20 months from a


general election, it would be odd if you put the manifesto forward now.


But things like child care, the bedroom tax, the minimum wage is


important for many people who don't get it and want it enforced. He has


a long way to go, and he has too convinced the public that he has


what it takes to get into Downing Street and be a prime minister and


he keeps falling short on that. His poll ratings are poor, not as bad as


Nick Clegg 's. That's a pretty good yardstick! Emily, when he was


talking yesterday about the referendum on Europe, in or out, he


said, we have made our position very, very clear and then he added,


but we will make our position clear in the manifesto. That's eight, the


position is not clear and he is able to sit on the fence until he can see


where the wind is blowing and what the public wants. This is typical of


his leadership, I have to say. He comes up with these ideas but


doesn't actually put any flesh on the bones at all until the last


minute. David Cameron has promised a referendum in 2017 and it might be


difficult to renegotiate the relationship with Brussels in the


meantime but at least he has come up relationship with Brussels in the


with the proposal. Damian McBride is coming to the conference, he's going


to do an interview with Newsnight, coming to the conference, he's going


he will then be on the Daily Politics tomorrow. If he gets out!


Will he need a couple of minders? I think people want receiving well


because they will feel at this time, the Daily Mail, he shouldn't be


washing labour 's dirty linen in public. I admire his honesty but


maybe not his timing. Kevin, Emily, our new superb double act, I think


it was for the money! Go and enjoy yourselves. The question for


today's quiz, which of these is the only one that does not made Ed Balls


cry, at least as far as we know! The Antiques Roadshow, Bambi, American


sitcom titled his modern family, or the Sound Of Music? -- Modern Family


full stop now, what do you do if you are a former Labour spin doctor.


If you are Damian McBride, you write a salacious book about your years in


office and hope you get a lot of one go for it. If you are Alistair


Campbell, , you go running with Andy Burnham to raise awareness about


alcohol misuse. A pretty good subject for a party conference, I


can tell you! I interviewed him yesterday for the Sunday Politics,


and he so enjoy that he is back again for and two, but first, as a


special treat, let's talk to another famous spin doctor from the


Brown-Blair years. Yes, I speak of none other than Charlie Whelan,


there he is, smiling away in the gloom of Brighton! Welcome to the


Daily Politics. Good morning, it is very pleasant to be back in


Brighton. It is a pleasure to see you there. Alistair Campbell says


that you are evil, evil is the word he used! What do you make of that? I


that you are evil, evil is the word don't know, I just bumped into him


downstairs, we had a little chat to talk about his football team,


Burnley, not doing as well as my team, but he didn't say anything


like that. He did, he said it on Sky News! You would not say it to me,


because he knows how much I would defend you! I do not bother with


because he knows how much I would this kind of nonsense. People here


want to talk about jobs, living standards, the NHS, the minimum


wage. They are not interested in books by Damian McBride, Alistair


Campbell or anybody else, which is why I never wrote a book. I have got


bad news for you, I am interested! So I am going to keep on with the


questions. I notice Kevin Maguire said, will Damian McBride get a


welcome here? Most of the delegates will not recognising, they do not


know who he is. This is just stop for the media. I went into the press


room, and the media was talking about Damian McBride. I went into


the conference area to talk to delegates and a number of old


friends, and nobody mentioned him. The people are interested in jobs,


living standards and the NHS. They are not as brave as me, that is why


living standards and the NHS. They I am going to as the these


questions. Did you know that Damian McBride got up to this sort of thing


cause me as you probably know as a student of politics, when I worked


for Gordon Brown in opposition then for a few years at the Treasury, I


met Damian McBride, I never met him, he did not come onto the scene


until three years after I had left frontline politics. He was there


when you were political officer for Unite. He was indeed, yes. So did


you know that he was and the mining political careers of Labour


colleagues like John Reid, Charles Clarke? -- undermining. I am sure


John Reid and Charles Clarke could look after themselves! Andrew, I


know you are interested in this, but if you talk about Damian McBride, go


to Alistair Campbell, who was waiting for you. I don't want to


talk about it, and neither do delegates. People think you were a


forerunner for Damian McBride, that you were pretty tough on anybody


that got in Gordon Brown's way - is that true? I suppose I was from a


different era, most of the time I was working was in opposition, where


it is a hard fight to win an election, which is why both eggs are


finding it difficult - opposition is difficult. -- Eds. It is a tough job


being a press officer, because we have to deal with people like you,


Andrew, Alistair Campbell did a good job, and so did I, but that was many


moons ago. Alistair Campbell said to me yesterday that there was no


equivalence between what he and Peter Mandelson did and what you and


Damian McBride did, that you were much rubber, much tougher, much more


brutal, much more unscrupulous. -- Robert. Oh, dear, I wish, I wish!


Oh, dear, oh, dear. Did he rerelease say that?! I will have a word with


him afterwards! Only after I have had a word with him. There are


reports that you were copied in on briefing e-mail that were sent out


by Damian McBride in 2009. You must have known what was going on. Were


you? I had no idea what he was up to, and neither did Gordon Brown,


because I must say that I do genuinely think that Gordon Brown


would be more shocked than anybody with some of the allegations that


have been made in this book. Really?! I do think... Gold belt


this man was obsessive for detail, he read the papers avidly, he wanted


to know where every story came from, and you are telling me that he saw


these things, oh, Charles Clarke is in a briefing war, no idea where


that came from! The idea that Charles Clarke could not look after


himself, or John Reid, an old comrades in the Communist Party era,


himself, or John Reid, an old it is ridiculous. I am sure you have


enjoyed reading it, I certainly have not read any of these books. I never


read Alistair Campbell's books, Tony Blair's books. When I worked in


government, I felt that what was happening was private. If I had a


bad Jonny that said, when I leave, I am going to write about what


everybody said, there are enough, but I didn't, and I think it is


dishonest, I do not like these books. I certainly do not like


Damian McBride's book. Did you not like Alistair Campbell's diaries? I


bet you looked yourself up in the index! Why would I possibly be


interested in that?! I am interested in real politics, which is about


what happening in this country, living standards, about getting a


Labour government and getting rid of the Tories. All right, we got our


message, thank you for joining us. Now, Ed Balls is bidding later this


morning, but before we do the build-up to that, let's go to


Alistair Campbell, who I think could hear what we were saying, and he


joins us again, twice in two days, it is too much for me! Same time as


well. I have changed mine, but it is the same colour! What did you make


of Charlie Whelan? Just doing his job, never delete thing wrong, this


is all a waste of time nobody cares? Well, I think I would say


borderline... No, not borderline, dishonest. He is right that the


delegates do not want to talk about it and would rather focus on jobs,


the economy, because these abuses that matter to people, but I think


that you cannot go through the decade that went through with the


sort of politics that they operated in and explain to come along and


say, oh, I don't read books, I don't know what is going on. I thought you


were right to press him with some of the questions that you did, because


the idea that he has not read those books as well is, I suspect,


borderline dishonest as well. The point is that when he talks about


borderline dishonest as well. The wanting to get a Labour government,


one of the reasons we don't have a Labour government is because of the


way that people like this behaved when we were in government. Because


a narrative was fed to the public, day in, day out, that Tony Blair was


not very good at his job, that any minister who was frankly very good


not very good at his job, that any at his job and thereby seen as a


threat by people like him and McBride were consistently briefed


against. You made the point, and he tried to laugh it off, about me


saying that Peter Mandelson and I, we never saw an equivalence, and I


did not. The reason why I felt that we were different to them is because


we understood we were part of a team, and as you know, you have been


around politics for a long time. This can get very tough, things can


get very heated, because the issues matter. But the reason why I am


still angry at people like Whelan matter. But the reason why I am


and McBride, and to be frank, let me say, Andrew, a lot of the journalist


who are now running around saying, how terrible these people work, they


were taking this poison. You just add Kevin Maguire on the programme.


Kevin Maguire would take their messages every day of the week. And


on a paper like the Daily Mirror, they would damage the Labour


government of the time. These people frankly, I have no time for them, I


never will have time for them, because they are among the reasons


why we have a Conservative government screwing up the recovery,


the health service, punishing people on welfare, and with a foreign


policy in shambles. That is why it is right that that is what matters,


policy in shambles. That is why it and they are partly responsible for


the Conservatives now being in power and us being out of power. You know,


for Damian McBride to come here and stinky can have his 15 minutes of


fame, he can sell as many thousands of his books as he wants, but he


should have it on his conscience that one of the reasons we have a


should have it on his conscience conservative and not a Labour


government is because he spent his whole time inside government at


taxpayers expense on the payroll, frankly undermining the


effectiveness and performance and leadership of that government. Lets


come onto the position that Labour finds itself in now, because I said


yesterday that when you were with Labour and in opposition, you at


this stage in the political cycle were always well ahead in the


polls, and certainly in the run up to 1997, looking like he would win


by a comfortable majority, maybe not as big as it subsequently became,


that surprised a lot of people, but big. At the moment, the polls are


narrowing, Labour is not that far ahead of the Tories, on economic


confidence the Tories are ahead in the polls. This is an unusual


situation for Labour. Well, I think one of the difficulties for Labour


is that the currently ship, Ed Miliband, Ed Balls and a lot of


winning environment. -- current leadership. I think a lot of people


sensed we were going to win in 1997, and that is when most of them came


into active Labour politics. Those of us who had been through the Neil


Kinnock era and Thatcher winning election after election, we remember


what it was like to be in that position and what it was like to be


in a losing and environment, and it is a very difficult place to be.


See, I think it'll be interesting to hear what Ed Balls has to say, but


one of the things that the Labour Party has not properly is rebut this


whole message from the coalition about the mess that we inherited.


Strategically, the Conservatives now do not need to have that much of a


recovery to be able to say, look, we inherited this mess and we are


starting to move on the right direction. The truth is they did not


inherit the mess - they inherited an international financial crisis which


Gordon handled pretty well, and we had ten years of growth and


prosperity under Labour. I think the public have been allowed to have


this message given, the mess we inherited. We need to challenge


that, and obviously most importantly it is about forward policy and the


policy agenda for the future, and this is the week that has to get put


out to the public. The public do not follow politics like you do, they do


not follow politics like your viewers do, who are obviously


interested. Most of the public are getting on with their lives, they


just did in and out of the debate, but between now and the election the


key policy platforms on which we will fight the next election, they


have got to be at there, they have got to be clear, they have got to


fit a coherent strategy, and the other thing is we have to start


taking lumps out of this incompetent, useless government. A


final point, you are in Brighton as part of your campaigning against


alcohol abuse and to raise awareness of these issues - some people will


think that taking that anti-alcohol message to a party conference is a


think that taking that anti-alcohol bit like taking the car ran into a


synagogue. How is it going? And I am here to plug a book! No, it is about


alcoholism. Did you have that down your trousers?! Yes, I did, you do


not want to go there! I would not your trousers?! Yes, I did, you do


take that particular copy! It is down there now. No, the points


today, and I saw the pictures you ran of Eddie Isard, and I was really


pleased to see Andy Burnham there as well, because I really hope the


pleased to see Andy Burnham there as Labour Party seizes this agenda,


because I think that on the food industry, on smoking and packaging,


because I think that on the food and on the alcohol industry, because


David Cameron went down the road of minimum unit pricing and then did a


reversal Eddie Burnham -- Andy Burnham did say there was a vacuum


in health policy. I am going to attempt to launch an attempt to all


parties, and I'm going to the Tories next week in Manchester for the


first time in 20 years, to get all the parties to commit to minimum


pricing and to increasing treatment availability to people who are


dependent drinkers, from 6%, which is pathetic, 6% of alcoholics get


treatment at the moment, up to 15%, which are still poultry in my view,


but it would be a start. And I think that you are right, these


conferences swim on alcohol, and if anybody wants to come tonight,


5:30pm in the Thistle Hotel, it will be the one who's free reception of


the week, hosted by me and Alcohol Concern. -- who's free. We will do a


hat-trick of interviews tomorrow! Do not mess up and get any food on that


site if it is the only one you have got. Thanks for joining us from


Brighton. got. Thanks for joining us from


We are expecting Ed Balls to address conference a little after midday,


but this morning it was the turn of Douglas Alexander, who was caught up


in the Damian McBride memoirs as well. His foreign affairs team were


trying to rally the party faithful, not always easy on foreign affairs,


but let's give you a favour -- a flavour of the conference floor.


When the government get it right, we flavour of the conference floor.


should support them. The truth is, just look at the legacy. Forces


housing has been neglected, forces and allowances have been cut and


they have been sackings of specialists who served on the front


line. When it came to the big vote on Syria, two government ministers


lock themselves away in a soundproofed cupboard and missed the


boat. Is there any wonder this is a government doesn't listen? These are


the people gave us aircraft carrier without an aircraft, they are at it


again. They sacked 20,000 soldiers without an aircraft, they are at it


to be replaced by reservists. They now have two deployed soldiers to


risk the private sector contract now have two deployed soldiers to


that was meant to find the reservists to replace the soldiers


that the country didn't want to lose in the first place. It's time for a


new era of international cooperation, it's time to reform


Europe and its institutions, strengthen NATO and better


coordinate capabilities. It is time to deepen our partnerships with Asia


as economic power moves inexorably to the east. We need that


corporation and that engagement, because you are on your own is as


hopeless a guide to foreign policy as it is a guide to domestic policy


here in the UK. Sadly the Conservatives just don't get that,


they never have and they never will. Douglas Alexander addressing the


they never have and they never will. conference this morning. We are


joined now by Emma Reynolds in Brighton. Welcome back to the Daily


Politics. Can I start on the German election results? The British Labour


Party and the German social Democrats are very close, lots of


ties between them, why did the SPD do so badly? I think the question is


why did Angela Merkel do so well. No, my question is what the SPD do


so badly, never mind her. The reason that the SPD did badly is because


Angela Merkel is an extremely difficult politician to deal with,


to oppose. I think this is really relevant. What she has done if she


has stolen their clothes. She has relevant. What she has done if she


talked about introducing minimum wages, she has talked about


introducing rent controls, these are policies that are more typical of


social Democrats, so they have really been squeezed, she has moved


to the centre and taken up a lot of their ground. It has been extremely


difficult for them to have policies that are distinctive, that's why


they haven't done as well as we would have liked them to do. What


happened in Germany hasn't happened in isolation. Why, after the slump


of 2008, a slump caused by capitalists, has the right one in


the UK, Spain, Greece, Australia, Norway, New Zealand, now Germany?


What is wrong with the left? I do think the results of those countries


are disappointing but we have also seen the centre-left win in France,


lead a government in Italy... That has been a big success! There are


nine countries in Europe where the centre-left leads the government, so


it is not a total wash-out for the centre-left in Europe. No, but you


would have thought, after the slump, which wasn't caused by trade unions


or pay demands or strikes or whatever, but caused by the


activities of bankers, surely you would have expected the left to


activities of bankers, surely you largely sweep the board, and they


haven't. So there must be something wrong with their appeal across


Europe if it is doing so badly. I would like the left to do better but


I also think that it is generally about anti-incumbency, and you have


seen government after government in the EU for in the last two or three


years, because of the economic situation -- fall. Germany is an


exception, because we will see if the same thing happens in Austria,


they may hang onto power, but this about incumbency and about the


economic situation of the particular country. Apart from Australia, but


it just shows what happens when a very divided party, in this case the


Australian Labour Party, when they go to the polls, they really get


punished. When you go to the polls that divided, you will receive the


same treatment. Yesterday, Ed Miliband said on the BBC that labour


's policy on an in out referendum for Europe was very, very clear.


What is that policy? We have been clear that we would keep on statute


the legislation that has been recently passed, couple of years


ago, that if there is a transfer of power from our Parliament to


introduce and of the European Union based in Brussels, then there would


be a referendum. But we have said we are opposed to the Tory promise of a


referendum before the end of 2017, are opposed to the Tory promise of a


which creates great uncertainty and could put jobs and vital foreign


direct investment at risk. Thank you for that. Ed Balls is on the stage.


last. An economy that works were just for the few but for working


people in every part of Britain. And conference, three and a half years


after the general election defeat, we have learned from that experience


and our time in government. Where we got things wrong on immigration


control, on the 10p tax rate, the next Labour government will be


different from the last. And where change is needed in our party, we


will reconnect with our members and working people across the country by


making necessary changes. But conference, let us also be proud of


what the last Labour government achieved. National minimum wage,


schools and hospitals rebuilt, NHS waiting times down from 18 months to


18 weeks. More apprenticeships, not joining the euro, 1 million more


this small businesses, crime down, child poverty down, and 3000 500


more sure start, one of the most important reforms ever delivered by


more sure start, one of the most a Labour government. And conference,


replacing the Tory abomination that was clause 28 with civil


partnerships. Paving the way for a landmark reform, something that


wouldn't have happened without Labour votes in parliament, the


progressive triumph that is gay marriage. And as we look forward to


the general election to come, determined to win a Labour majority,


I want you all to know, as the Labour and co-operative MP, majority


just 1101, the state that David Cameron needed to win to get a Tory


majority in 2010, but because of our hard work and determination, the


seat he failed to win in 2010, I am up for the battle to come. And as


chair of our economic policy commission, I know this whole party


is up for the battle to come. And please join me in thanking my


co-chair, Margaret Eckert, for her continuing hard work and service to


this party -- Margaret Beckett. Not just over the past year but in four


decades in Parliament, we thank you, Margaret. And conference, as a proud


member of the Unison and Unite trade unions, I know to this whole


movement is up for the battle to come. And in the coming months, let


us a cure the foundations for the general election. Selecting the best


parliamentary candidates we have ever had, with more women candidates


parliamentary candidates we have in key seats than ever before.


Winning council seats and by-elections up and down the


country, with the toughest and best generation of local government


leaders we have ever had. Winning more seats in the European


elections, and let us end next year in the European elections, the stain


on our country 's reputation, by in the European elections, the stain


kicking the BNP out of the European Parliament. And conference... In


next September 's Scottish recommend -- referendum, now showing so


powerfully up there that the case for suppression is falling apart,


when Alex Salmond is in a state of total confusion on the single most


important decision a country can take on the economy, which currency


to have, first he wanted the euro, saying sterling was a millstone


around our neck, now he says he wants independence but to keep the


pound all the same. Let us win the argument that we are better together


in next year 's Scottish referendum. And let us demonstrate as Welsh


Labour have done so brilliantly that it is our Labour values of


cooperation, solidarity and social justice that best secure our union.


And conference, it is Labour whose leader is facing up to the need for


reform, leading from the front on phone hacking, on banking firm,


putting the crisis of the squeezed middle on the political agenda


before anyone else. And who on Syria, had the courage to stand up


and say that if the case was sound and the United Nations was properly


engaged, Labour would support military action but that Labour


would not support a gung ho prime minister putting the decision for


evidence in a reckless -- to conflict. Conference, Ed Miliband


was right. He prevailed. My friend, our leader, Britain 's next prime


minister, Ed Miliband. And conference, when David Cameron and


William Hague now have the nerve to go around saying that Parliament has


Mac refusal to be bounced into military action in Syria has


diminished Britain, let us reply, no Labour government will ever stand


aside when terrible expertise are committed and international law is


broken. -- terrible atrocities. But we know what has diminished Britain.


Flouncing out of a European summit, leaving Britain without influence,


isolated, that is what has diminished Britain. Absurdly


comparing Britain to Greece, and choking off business confidence and


our recovery, that is what has diminished Britain. Stigmatising the


unemployed and low paid and calling them shirkers, driving vans read our


streets, telling immigrants to go home, attacking our police, teachers


and social workers, peddling the lie that Britain is broken, that is what


has diminished Britain. Conference, we know who has diminished Britain.


We know who has diminished Britain. David Cameron has diminished


Britain. Although, didn't you feel a David Cameron has diminished


little sorry for our promise to this summer? Didn't you? -- for our Prime


Minister. Back in August, on the beach, changing into his swimming


trunks, behind that Mickey Mouse towel, captured on camera 's,


unflattering pictures spread across the national press conference, I


have in there, I know what it's like. But when Yvette saw the


pictures, she said, rather pointedly, she said that for a


46-year-old man, David Cameron looked rather slim. Slim! Who on


earth can she have been comparing him to? ! I just thought, for a


prime minister, it was a surprisingly small towel. But


conference, let us all agree, after the last three years, the sooner


David Cameron throws in the towel, the better. Conference...


Conference, we all remember, as Margaret has just said, what David


Cameron, George Osborne said on the economy three years ago - they


claimed in 2010 Baxter tax rises and deeper spending cuts would secure


the economic recovery and make it stronger. They said their plan would


make people better off and get the deficit down. On every test they set


themselves, the Prime Minister and Chancellor have failed. They did not


secure the recovery, they choked it off, as we want, and a flat lined


our economy for three wasted and damaging years. They claimed living


standards would rise, but they have fallen year-on-year. They made the


number one test of their economic credibility keeping the AAA credit


rating, and our country has been downgraded not once but twice. They


promise to balance the books by 2015, but the deficit is now said to


be over £90 billion. And now, after three wasted years, David Cameron


and George Osborne try to claim their plan has worked. Worked! It we


have worked for a privileged few at the top, but for the million young


people trapped out of work, that Tory plan has not worked at all.


For... For millions... For millions of


ordinary families worried about how to make ends meet, when wages are


falling and prices are rising, for the young couples struggling to get


on the housing ladder because the chronic shortage of homes is forcing


up prices, for ordinary working families, the aspirational majority


who work hard, pay their taxes, who wants to get on and not just get by,


but who are working harder for less as the cost of living keeps on


rising, this Tory plan is not working. And for the 400,000


disabled adults forced to pay the government's perverse and deeply


unfair bedroom tax, this Tory plan has failed them absolutely. And that


is why, in our first budget, the has failed them absolutely. And that


next Labour government will repeal the bedroom tax.


So when David Cameron and George Osborne say that everything in the


economy is down to them, let us remind them prices rising faster


than wages for 38 of the 39 months since David Cameron went into


Downing Street, three years of flat-lining, the slowest recovery


for over 100 years, 1 million young people out of work, welfare spending


rising, more borrowing to pay for their economic failure. That is


their economic record, and we will not let them forget it. I say to


David Cameron and George Osborne, you cannot just airbrush away three


wasted years, you cannot just airbrush away your economic failure.


And, conference, as for their claim that we are all in this together, we


don't hear that line much anymore. And with the deficit still high and


ordinary families still struggling with the cost of living crisis, how


can it be right or fair for David Cameron and George Osborne to have


chosen this year to give the richest people in our country earning over


£150,000 a £3 billion tax cut? Isn't it is now clear whose side David


Cameron and jaws bottom -- George Osborne are really on? Cutting taxes


for hedge funds, trying to bribe working people to give up


for hedge funds, trying to bribe rights, country suppers at Chequers


for Tory party fundraisers, protecting the privileges of the few


while the many work hard and do not see the benefit. For all their claim


to be modernisers, with Cameron and Osborne, it has not been, who wants


to be a millionaire? It is who wants to help a millionaire. It is not


to be a millionaire? It is who wants phone a friend, it is cut taxes for


your friend. It is not 50-50, it is winner takes all. Conference, isn't


it about time they asked the audience? Because... Because we...


Because we know the truth. We know the truth. After the last three


years, David Cameron and George Osborne, for the few not the many,


more of the same, from the same old stories. And, conference, after


three years of stagnation, it is good news our economy has started to


finally started to grow again. It was going three years ago before


they choked it. That it was growing. So don't listen to the Tory


propaganda that says that Labour does not want the economy to grow,


what nonsense! Because when the economy was in recession, we know


which communities lose out. When unemployment becomes entrenched, we


know which constituencies suffer most. When the cost of living is


rising, we know which families are hardest hit. And we know that three


years of flat-lining, far longer than any of us expected, has caused


long-term damage. Businesses bankrupt, investment in capacity


lost, long-term unemployment entrenched. And now even as growth


finally returns, with prices still rising faster than wages, with


business investment still weak, with unemployment still rising in half


the country, with bank lending still falling to businesses, we cannot be


satisfied. For millions of people in our country, this is no recovery at


all. And when, around the world, emerging markets are jittery, China


all. And when, around the world, is slowing, oil prices are rising,


the eurozone is still stuck with chronic low growth, I say, this is


no time for complacency, to sit back with fingers crossed. That is why we


no time for complacency, to sit back have urged George Osborne to act to


secure a strong recovery, because what Britain needs now is strong


enough growth to catch up all that lost ground and so that everyone can


feel the benefit, and not the view. Not a recovery that just works. ,


not early hikes in interest rates and mortgage rates as a weak British


economy hits the inflationary buffers, but a recovery that works


for all and is built to last. And that is why, along with voices from


bankrupt England and the IMF, we are right to be concerned that the


government is boosting housing demand. The taxpayer mortgage


guarantee on houses up to £600,000 in value while doing nothing about


the supply of housing which has fallen to its lowest level since the


1920s. George, its basic economic, its basic economic. If you push up


housing demand and do nothing to boost supply, prices go up and up,


and the end result is that the very people you should be helping - young


first-time buyers, will find it even harder to get on the housing ladder.


Conference, I have to ask, when we need to secure stronger growth and


invest for the long-term, how can it be right George Osborne to be


planning to cut infrastructure investment in 2015? That is why we


have consistently said, why the IMF have said, bring forward £10 billion


of infrastructure investment now. Build 400,000 affordable homes over


the next two years, create 500,000 jobs and thousands of


apprenticeships. That is the way to secure an economy that works for all


and is built to last. But, conference, we cannot rely on


George Osborne to do the right thing. And with George Osborne doing


the wrong things, we stand to inherit a very difficult situation.


After three wasted years of lost growth, far from balancing the


books, in 2015, there is now set to be a deficit of over £90 billion.


And I need to be straight with this conference and with the country


about what that means. The Government's day-to-day spending


totals in 2015-16 will be our starting point. Any changes for


current spending plans will need to be fully funded and send out an


advanced in our manifesto. There will be no more borrowing for


day-to-day spending, we will set out to fiscal rules to balance the


current budget and to get the national debt on a downward path. Of


course, Labour will make different choices, we will combine iron


discipline on spending control with a fairer approach to deficit


reduction. And with our 0-based review, a review of every £1 spent


by Government from the bottom-up, Rachel Reeves and my Shadow Cabinet


colleagues have begun the work of identifying savings so we can switch


to Labour's priorities. But we will not be able to reverse all the


to Labour's priorities. But we will spending cuts and tax rises that the


Tories have pushed through. We will have to govern with less money


around. The next Labour government would have to make cuts to, because


while jobs and growth are vital to get the deficit down, they are not


going to be able to magic away a £90 billion deficit at a stroke.


Delivering our Labour goals will be harder than at any time than we can


member, but it can be done - if we get people back to work, strengthen


the economy, cut out waste, focus relentlessly on our priorities, and


make sure difficult choices are not ducked but are rooted in our values,


fairness and common sense. So, conference, at a time in the public


services that pensioners rely on under such pressure, we cannot


continue paying the winter fuel allowance to the richest 5% of


pensioners. We will not be able to allowance to the richest 5% of


reverse the Government's cuts to child benefit for the highest


earners. We will keep the benefit stab at major problem reflects


housing costs. We will have to have stab at major problem reflects


a cap on structural social security. Over the long term, as our


population ages, there will need to be increases in the retirement age.


But a fairer approach to deficit reduction means we will also crack


down on tax avoidance, scrap the shares schemes, and reverse the tax


cut for hedge funds, and we will insist that all the proceeds from


the sale of our stakes in Lloyds and RBS are used not for a one-off


pre-election tax giveaway, but every penny of profit used to repay the


national debt. Conference, that is fiscal responsibility in the


national interest. And with our 0-based reviews, we


will make different choices, so we will ask, can we improve care and


save money, as Andy Burnham has proposed, by pooling Health and


Social Care Act a single service with a single budget and joint


management? And, conference, we will repeal the damaging and costly Tory


privatisation of our National Health Service.


And we will... We will ask, does it really makes sense to have separate


costly management and bureaucracy. Many separate governments


departments, agencies, fire services and police forces? -- for so many.


We will not pay for new free schools and police forces? -- for so many.


in areas where there are extra school places well parents in other


areas are struggling to get their children into a local school.


And on infrastructure, we need more long-term investment. And we will


assess the case for capital investment as we prepare our


manifesto, but we must also set the right priorities and get value for


money. Conference, we support investment in better transport links


for the future. We continue to back the idea of a new North-south rail


link, but under this government, the High Speed Two project has been


totally mismanaged, and the High Speed Two project has been


have shot up to £50 billion. David High Speed Two project has been


Cameron and George Osborne have made clear that they will go full is team


ahead with this project, no matter how much the costs spiral up and up.


They seem willing to put their own pride and urbanity above best value


for the taxpayer. Maria Eagle and I are clear that we will not take this


irresponsible approach. Let us be clear, in tough times, when there is


less money around and a big deficits to get down, there will be no blank


cheque from me as a Labour Chancellor for this project or any


other project, because the question is not just whether a new high-speed


line is a good idea or a bad idea, but whether it is the best way to


spend £50 billion for the future of our country.


Conference, in tough times, it even more important that all our


policies and commitments are properly costed and funded. The


policies and commitments are British people rightly wants to know


that the sums add up, so we will go one step further and ask the


independent Office for Budget Responsibility, the watchdog set up


by this government, to independently audited the costings of every single


individual spending and tax measure in Labour's manifesto at the next


election. This is the first time a Shadow Chancellor, the first time


any political party has ever said he wants this kind of independent


audit. It is a radical change from what has gone before, but it is the


right thing to do to help restore trust in politics, and that is why


we are going to do it. Conference, you know we need


economic responsibility and fiscal rigour. And we can't write all the


details of our first budget today, where we don't know the estate of


the economy and how bad the where we don't know the estate of


finances are going to be that we will inherit. But after three wasted


years of Tory failure, people are rightly now asking, what will Labour


do differently? And now, with 19 months to go to the election, this


week, today and tomorrow and in the coming days is the right time to set


out Labour's alternatives. Conference, as Liam Byrne has said,


Labour would stand aside without almost 1 million young people out of


work and when long-term unemployment is so high. We know can't make our


comic grow more strongly, get the cost of welfare down and deal with


the deficit if we are squandering the talents of so many. We will fund


this by repeating the tax on bank bonuses and restricting pensions tax


relief for the very highest earners to the same rate as the average


taxpayer. We will work within ploy is to make sure there will be a paid


job for all young people out of work for more than 12 months and adults


out of work for two years or more, which people will have to take or


lose benefits. That is welfare reform that works. That is what we


mean by matching rights with responsibilities, eating young


people into work and ending the scourge of long-term unemployment


once and for all. -- getting young people into work. Conference, when


people get into work they should always be better off, it should


always pay more to be in work than on benefits so we must do more to


make work pay. The national minimum wage is one of our proudest


achievements. It was opposed by the Tories every step of the way, even


now some Conservatives say the minimum wage should be suspended.


And its value has fallen by 5% in real terms since 2010. So we must


now fight to protect and strengthen the national minimum wage,


increasing the fine for those who exploit workers, strengthening it


and restoring its value, catching up the ground lost over the last three


years and encouraging employers to go further and pay the minimum --


living wage. And conference, to move Labour on from the past, to put it


where it should always be, on the side of working people, we will


introduce a new 10p starting rate of tax will stop a tax cut for 25


million hard-working people on minimum and lower incomes. And we


will pay for it by introducing a mansion tax on property is worth


over £2 million. -- properties. Introduced in a fair way, so that


foreign investors who buy a property in London to make a profit will


finally make a proper tax contribution to our country. But the


many families, high childcare costs are a real problem, it can mean it


many families, high childcare costs doesn't even add up to go to work.


Childcare is a vital part of our doesn't even add up to go to work.


economic infrastructure. That alongside family support and


flexible working should give parents the choice to stay at home with


their children when they are very small, and balance work and


their children when they are very as they grow older. To make work pay


for families, we must act. Stephen Twigg said that yesterday how we


will guarantee childcare available for all primary school children from


8am until 6pm. And today, I want to go further. As we need to do more


for families with nursery age children, too. Conference, here is


how we can. After the financial crisis, it is right that the banks


make a greater contribution. In the last financial year, the banks made


a staggering £2.7 billion less in overall tax than in 2010. Over the


last two years, the government 's bank levy has raised 1.6 billion


less than even they said it would. At a time when resources are tight


and families are under pressure, that's not right, and we will act.


The next Labour government will increase the bag levy rate to raise


an extra £800 million and we will use the money for families where all


parents want to work and are in work, to increase free childcare for


three-year-olds and four-year-olds work, to increase free childcare for


from 15 hours to 25 hours. For parents in work, free childcare for


three-year-olds and four-year-olds from 15 to 25 hours a week, for the


first time, parents able to work part time without having to worry at


all about the cost of childcare, that is what we mean by making work


pay. That's what we mean by tackling the cost of living crisis, that is a


radical transformation in the provision of childcare in our


country. And conference, we need a radical transformation in our


economy. Because the countries that radical transformation in our


succeed now are those that exploit the huge opportunities that digital


media and education, medical technology are coming, will Britain


seize this opportunity or squander it? As we and


seize this opportunity or squander know there is no future in trying to


undercut the merging market economies like India, China and


Brazil on wages and cost. That's why so many companies look at this


government 's record on industrial policy with increasing dismay. The


Heseltine growth review muted, the British bank a damp squib,


apprenticeships for young people actually falling. Energy policy in


chaos. On infrastructure, dither, actually falling. Energy policy in


delay and inaction. We cannot succeed with this race to the


bottom, with laissez faire deregulation and trickle-down


economic. Because it's NRO and defeatist vision, it is doomed to


fail and we have seen it fail before. Just look at the British car


industry in the 70s and 80s, trying to compete on cost, cutting back on


innovation, quality and skills, played by terrible industrial


relations. And now look at the Renaissance in Jaguar Land Rover,


creating thousands more jobs, exporting around the world, not by


cutting corners but waste of world-class, long-term investment in


innovation, skills and supply chains. We are determined to learn


from that success and that is why we can announce executive director of


Land Rover will now lead a review for us on how we can help strengthen


our supply chains and deliver the skills and innovation Britain needs


to succeed. Following the review on short-term is, we will change


takeover rules and corporate incentives and reform taxes to stop


asset stripping in the short-term and instead, support long-term


investment. And why not use any revenues from the planned increase


in the license fees for the mobile phone spectrum, expected to be over


£1 billion in the next Parliament, to capitalise the British investment


bank so that region by region, we can get small businesses, the


finance they need to grow and create jobs. Conference, we will set up an


independent infrastructure commission has recommended by the


chair of the Olympic delivery authority, to end either and delay


in infrastructure planning. We will legislate for us to get free banking


code of conduct and demand real reform and cultural change from the


banks. We will legislate for a decarbonisation, and unlock billions


of pounds of investment in renewables, nuclear, clean coal


technology and we will give the green investment bank borrowing


powers it needs to do it is job. That is what the next Labour


government will do. So conference, even in difficult times, even as we


face a huge deficit, we will rise to the challenge. We will build an


economy that works for the many and not just a few at the top. And we


know it can be done. Because we have done it before. Conference, we are


know it can be done. Because we have not the first Labour generation to


face a huge deficit and the need for spending restraint and a country


crying out the change. We are not the first generation to be awed by


the scale of what needs to be done, to transform our country. As we


prepare for the 20 15th general election, to be held in the 70th


anniversary year of the Second World War, let us take inspiration from


the great reforming Labour government of 1945. Conference, that


past Labour generation faced huge economic and fiscal challenges. But


they did not flinch. And they built lasting change. New homes for


returning heroes, universal welfare state and national health of which


65 years on is still weak and four British values, for all and not just


a privilege few. -- privileged few. So conference, let us not be the


a privilege few. -- privileged few. Labour generation that fringed in


the face of hardship. Let us show we will not duck the great challenges


we are going to face on spending and the deficit. And let us build an


economy that works for all working families, in every part of our


country. And in the coming weeks and months, when people ask what would a


Labour government do? Let's go out and tell them. Jobs for young people


guaranteed. Expanding free childcare, a British investment


bank, infrastructure delivered, green investment unlock, the deficit


down fairly, tax cuts for millions, not the millionaires. Reforming our


banks, the NHS saved, tackling tax avoidance, rail fares capped, the


bedroom tax scrapped, building the homes we need. That is what a Labour


government could do. Let's come together, go out there and make it


happen. Thank you, conference. They get to their feet as Ed Balls


finishes his address as Shadow Chancellor. He spoke for just over


half an hour. The new story in it, he started to distance himself from


HS2, the rail line from London to Birmingham, originally a Labour idea


picked up by the Coalition Government but he seems to be


worried about the escalating cost of it. He says there is no blank cheque


for it and he wants to review it along with all the other


infrastructure projects he might get involved in. He also said he wanted


the Office for Budget Responsibility to look at his sons and spending


plans, to get an endorsement, to get them independently audited. He took


awhile to get the economy, even though he is Shadow Chancellor, he


spent the first pages of his speech sounding more like the Labour


leader, but I'm sure there is nothing in that. He promised tough


fiscal constraints, he wants a compulsory jobs guarantee. He will


pay for that with a tax on bankers bonuses, takeaway pension relief


from the highest earners, so everybody gets it at the basic rate


of tax. He wants to encourage a living wage and he wants up a levy


of tax. He wants to encourage a to be able to pay for more child


care. These are the highlights of his speech. We are joined by Sajid


Javid to get some reaction to that. Would you make of that? I'm made of


that that he is showing a lack of confidence. The conservative


government is embarking on a massive £50 billion investment in


infrastructure, which tells us that they know that the government as to


invest in infrastructure in order to get the economy ticking again. And


yet what he is saying is that he's not talking about that, talks about


that in a small way, what he's emphasising is he will raise taxes


to pay for childcare and to pay for jobs guarantees. But he is losing is


the big picture, which the Tory government has finally got, which is


the only way you're going to get the revenue you need to bring down the


deficit is to invest in infrastructure, stimulate the


private sector and then your tax revenues will flow. He's suggesting


that HS2 may not be the most productive way of doing that. He


wants a rail line to the North but his wandering why it is so


expensive. But here you have his wandering why it is so


political consensus between all the parties, that £50 billion is needed


to kick-start something, in this case for HS2. We have agreement, so


the salami slicing around little bits per childcare here and there,


that is not what it is about. What did you make of it? Clearly he wants


to criticise the Tories further economic policy and he talks about


these wasted years of stagnation. What is the real case is that after


a global financial crisis, we were never going to recover properly.


There has been plenty of analysis, and they take a long time to recover


from. The matter who was in charge, we would have years of negative


growth and an economy that flat lined -- no matter who was in


charge. What is interesting is the economy starting to bloom now. Boom?


Many economists are now predicting 3% growth. The profession always


gets the amplitude wrong, and it is not until the data comes out


properly years later that we realise the down periods were a lot more


than and the other periods were a lot more of. So that is what I


think, he has missed that. Let me bring in Sajid Javid, the fact is


that the economy did not go for three years. We inherited an economy


that had just experienced the mother of all recessions, the deepest


recession we had seen in peacetime. There was a worldwide financial


crash. That did not mean we have to have the biggest deficit of any


industrialised country. But our financial services were bigger, so


it was going to hit us more. That is because we took our eye off the


ball, and when the alarm bells were ringing, no one was listening


because we changed the regulatory system. You never objected. With the


encouragement of the Conservative Party. We voted against those


changes, and Peter Lilley said it would be a field day. It is and


groups, and he has been proven right. But you were urging for less


regulation. What was important, what I took away from Ed Balls' speech


regulation. What was important, what just now is that, first of all,


let's look at the words he did not use. He did not say plan be, too far


too fast, he did not say triple dip, recession made in Downing


Street. Why? Because he knows he has lost the economic argument. The


economy is recovering, I would not say it is booming but it is turning


the corner. There are still a lot of work to do, and Ed Balls knows that.


Now he has not got any policies, other than what he has been talking


Now he has not got any policies, about. You would have thought he


would have learned the lesson, but it is about more spending and debt.


By 2015, will people be worse off or better off than 2010? I hope they


will be better off. They are not now. That is our target, to make


sure that everyone feels the benefits of economic recovery, and


if we are going to do that we have to be serious about tackling our


record budget deficit. We have to keep interest rates low and major


our economy keeps generating jobs. It is generating jobs today faster


than any other country in the G7. There are more people employed today


in Britain than at any other time in our history. Excuse me, the Governor


of the Bank of England has made it clear you cannot have a substantial


fall in unemployment and low interest rates, it is one or the


other, what do you want going into 2015, unemployment below 7% or


interest rates at 0.5%? We are going to keep focusing on bringing


unemployment is down, and the claimant level is coming down. If


you look at the forecasts of the major bodies, the major think tank


said so forth, they are showing increasing economic growth. I


understand that, so in return for unemployment going below 7%,


understand that, so in return for although I am not sure it will by


2015, although it could, under what you're saying, you are happy to see


interest rates rise? That is what the governor says. I think if we


stick to our economic policy, which is bringing back confidence, keeping


stick to our economic policy, which interest rates low, keeping mortgage


rates low, and if the Bank of England decides to do that, it is up


to them. With this forward guidance, the governor has told us


that if unemployment falls below 7%, he will take it as a sign that the


economy is under way and interest rates will have to rise. You


comfortable to go into the next election rising interest rates? I


trust his judgment. That is not the answer to my question. You are


comfortable with rising interest rates? Once the economy starts to


recover, and right now we're just the corner, and we have to keep


working, it is not a judgment for the government to make. What we have


got to do is keep focusing on the deficit, keep reducing taxes on


business to generate jobs. Coming back to living standards, at the


moment they are substantially below 2010, when you came into power.


Prices have consistently risen higher than wages in the public and


private sectors. Can I get it clear, are you telling us that that will no


longer be the case by 2015, that he will fight the next election with


living standards higher than 2010? What I am saying is that we will


keep working hard to help people with their living standards and the


keep working hard to help people best way to do that is the root


page, full-time employment. The fact that the economy is generating jobs


faster than anyone else in the G7 is a good thing. Will people be better


off or not by 2015? I hope so, but I cannot judge the future. Will you


let the office for budget responsible do to an independent


audit on Mr Balls' manifesto policies? -- the office of budget


responsible to. We created this office in the first


place because Gordon Brown fiddled the figures whenever he felt like


it, so we have this independent office... That would politicise it.


You will not allow it? It would require primary legislation, so it


is high in the sky to even think about it. That is not what the Tory


chairman of the banking committee says. It would require primary


legislation, and Ed Balls has used this Ahmed is a bit of a stunt to


take us away from the real argument, this Ahmed is a bit of a stunt to


which is an unfunded spending commitments. -- this argument. Thank


you for your figures. These are Treasury figures that I have


collected. Let's go now, fresh from the speech, to the Shadow Treasury


minister, Chris Leslie. Welcome to the Daily Politics. Ed Balls


minister, Chris Leslie. Welcome to made it clear that he will stick to


the existing coalition spending plans if he is in power for 2015-16,


but that is only the first year of any future Labour government, and it


does not include capital spending, so you could unleash, put the taps


on for 2016? You have only committed to one year, correct? ? We had their


Spending Review in 2015-16 in the summer, that one year, and we are


only able to talk about that starting point in the context of the


announcements that the Chancellor has made. Sadly, that is the bases


we are starting from the -- there, even though we have this deficit.


You could tell us what your pistol rules would be for the subsequent


years, because at the moment we have no idea, and you may be very much by


stopping in year one, but you could go back to your profligate ways in


years two, three and four. Well, no, look, I think it is a commitment


that is quite important for opposition to make. People want to


know how we would approach fiscal policy, and I think the fact that we


are recognising that we are still going to have a legacy of the


deficits despite all the promises that George Osborne made, that it


would balance the books, that deficit is still going to be very


considerable indeed, and therefore it is only the responsible thing to


say to the public, you know, we cannot magic that away, we will have


to use it as a starting point, the plans that they have sat out. If


Sajid Javid and others are going to be decked for future years, we will


look at that at that point. -- going to project. Let me ask you a couple


of details, very important details on mansion tax - on houses worth


more than £2 million, will that mansion tax be on the value above £2


million, or on the whole value of the house? Well, it will not be


hitting anybody with properties below £2 million. I am not asking


that. We need to have an approach to the mansion tax that looks at those


properties... I understand that. It is only on those amounts. Know,


clarify that for me. Let me ask you the question again, it is very


important - is it on the value over £2 million, supposing it is £3


million, the value of the house, is it on that final £1 million, or


visit on the full £3 million? Well, no, the rate of tax would be


dependent on the calculation is of the numbers of properties at that


point in time worth... Am not asking you the raid. Let me finish, please.


I have to finish the sentence to explain it. The Government, for


example, have just introduced a new regime called the annual tax on


envelope dwellings for £2 million and above, where they are owned by


companies. The Government, the Treasury have all the methodology


for dealing with high-value properties of £2 million and above,


the question is, why would they extended... The question is, no, Mr


Leslie, the question is quite simple, and you have yet to answer


it! Let me try one more time. If we look at a house that is valued at £3


million, above the £2 million that you have said will be where the


mansion tax kicks in, will be you have said will be where the


mansion tax, whatever level it is, will it fall just on the incremental


1 million, or will it fall on the full 3 million? Well, obviously, on


the incremental, because properties below £2 million will not be


affected by this. They will not be below £2 million will not be


classified as mansions. The Liberal Democrats came up with a proposal


that they think around £2 million can be raised from this, so it is


not just something that is the preserve of the Labour Party. You


have not and my question, that is fine, that is your privilege. No,


you do not like the answer. No, I do not understand, because you have not


and said on that distinction. How big will the bankers' levy have to


be to raise the extra 800 million? Well, the bank levy was supposed to


be yielding £2.5 billion from the moment at which the Chancellor


designed it in the way that he did. It was unusual, because he set out


the amount that he was targeting explicitly, 2.5 billion in every


year. Every year in the House of Commons we have had that debate, it


raised, I think, 1.8 billion... He has had to increase it. And every


raised, I think, 1.8 billion... He year he has failed to get it. How


big will you make it? We believe that it needs to be, the methodology


needs to be adjusted so we can get the extra £800 million, and we would


use that, importantly, to increase the hours of free childcare from


15... I know what you are going to do, I understand that. You are going


to use the money for that, I just wondered what the rate would be.


Finally, briefly, do you take 800 million out of the banks, it is less


they will have to lead to small businesses, correct question me I do


not accept that. Banks have all sorts of reserves, they have costs,


compensation, as they call it, to senior management. They are more


than able to deal with the £2.5 billion that George Osborne said


they should be paying. Why hasn't he got that amount of them? It is a


scandal, the banks are paying less and less tax under this government.


All right, we have run out of time. Everyone else is paying more. Oh,


still going! Just time to get the answer to the quiz, which film


doesn't make Ed Balls cry? I have got no idea, Bambi, he did not cry


at Bambi. I do not know why you would cry at the Antiques Roadshow


at Bambi. I do not know why you but not at Bambi! What kind


at Bambi. I do not know why you person is that?! Anyway, there you


go. Thanks to our guests today, you have had to sit through the party


conference speech. We have got more of it next week with the Tories!


Sorry that we did not renew Adam's mood box, I have heard it is very


good. Thanks to all of our guests. The one o'clock news is starting on


BBC One, James Landale will be hosting today at conference after


Newsnight on BBC Two. And we will be back tomorrow, Jo and I, with not


one but two programmes on the Labour back tomorrow, Jo and I, with not


conference, what value we give you! From midday, and normal conference


Marshall, then a quick break, back at two o'clock for a very important


speech for Ed Miliband. Goodbye!


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