Browse content similar to 25/11/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
Afternoon folks, welcome to the Daily Politics. This looks like | :00:37. | :00:46. | |
another bad day for RBS. A new report suggests the bank shuttered | :00:47. | :00:50. | |
stores deliberately in order to drive small businesses to the wall | :00:51. | :00:56. | |
and seize their assets on the cheap. It's very, very, very long. | :00:57. | :01:00. | |
In fact, the bill paving the way for High Speed Two is the biggest we've | :01:01. | :01:03. | |
ever seen, and it's published today. But will it ever make law? | :01:04. | :01:07. | |
Should the arts be singing for their supper? We'll be asking what level | :01:08. | :01:12. | |
of public funding they deserve. And... | :01:13. | :01:20. | |
# Take on me. Ed Miliband on brotherly love and | :01:21. | :01:26. | |
his Desert Island discs. All that in the next hour. And with | :01:27. | :01:30. | |
us for the first half of the programme today, and adding a touch | :01:31. | :01:33. | |
of glamour to the show, is the former ballerina, Deborah Bull. | :01:34. | :01:39. | |
Welcome to the programme. Deborah was also the creative director of | :01:40. | :01:43. | |
the Royal Opera House. She is currently director of the Cultural | :01:44. | :01:46. | |
Institute at Kings College London. Welcome to the Daily Politics. Now, | :01:47. | :01:49. | |
first this morning, let's talk about payday loans because the Government | :01:50. | :01:53. | |
is to introduce a new law to cap the cost of payday loans. Ministers want | :01:54. | :01:56. | |
to limit interest rates, which at the moment can exceed 4000%. Labour | :01:57. | :02:01. | |
pledged to crack down on payday lenders some time ago but the | :02:02. | :02:04. | |
Chancellor, George Osborne, denies he's stolen the opposition's idea. | :02:05. | :02:14. | |
We inherited a situation where the payday lending industry was almost | :02:15. | :02:19. | |
entirely unregulated, leading to outrageous fees and totally | :02:20. | :02:22. | |
unacceptable practices. We will now cap the cost of credit for the | :02:23. | :02:27. | |
payday lending industry, because we are on the side of hard-working | :02:28. | :02:31. | |
people, we want to make sure they are properly protected and we want | :02:32. | :02:37. | |
the banking system to work for them. Is the Government right to | :02:38. | :02:41. | |
intervene? There has to be evidence of real | :02:42. | :02:43. | |
harm for the government to intervene. It does it when there is | :02:44. | :02:51. | |
real harm, with alcohol and tobacco. Intervening now seems to suggest | :02:52. | :02:53. | |
they have accepted the evidence that there is real harm, but that means | :02:54. | :02:59. | |
that the Government needs to look at it more broadly. I am glad they are | :03:00. | :03:03. | |
looking at terms and conditions, but I think advertising has a role to | :03:04. | :03:07. | |
play. The Money Advice Service found that over a million people would be | :03:08. | :03:12. | |
going to payday lenders to fund Christmas. Why do they think there | :03:13. | :03:19. | |
is the need? Many people just can't get loans from high-street banks, | :03:20. | :03:22. | |
they are having to pay higher interest to payday lenders. And | :03:23. | :03:32. | |
others are saying they'll -- they are dodgy but useful. Do they have a | :03:33. | :03:39. | |
role to play? Of course, but it is ensuring the most vulnerable are not | :03:40. | :03:43. | |
targeted through inappropriate advertising, prevalence, | :03:44. | :03:47. | |
availability, through affordability checks which become nothing more | :03:48. | :03:52. | |
than a wing and a prayer. Lots of these payday lending shops are | :03:53. | :03:56. | |
prevalent on certain high streets. The more you see them, I suppose the | :03:57. | :04:01. | |
more people will be tempted to use them. If you combine that with the | :04:02. | :04:06. | |
power of advertising, which makes us all feel inadequate, that we have to | :04:07. | :04:10. | |
give more to our children and how the things that somebody else has, I | :04:11. | :04:15. | |
think it is good they are looking at it and I am in favour. Do you | :04:16. | :04:24. | |
think... The Government denies they have performed a U-turn, but you | :04:25. | :04:26. | |
think they are becoming more interested in intervening where they | :04:27. | :04:32. | |
think markets are failing? There is a question whether governments are | :04:33. | :04:38. | |
acting for what they believe or because they think it will will map | :04:39. | :04:44. | |
votes. -- win them votes. I tend to think these are pretty good | :04:45. | :04:47. | |
statements that I think there is real harm being done by excessive | :04:48. | :04:52. | |
borrowing, to easy borrowing. If good comes out of it, that is a good | :04:53. | :04:55. | |
thing. Now it's time for our daily quiz. | :04:56. | :04:59. | |
The question for today is who chairs the all-parliamentary dance group? | :05:00. | :05:03. | |
Is it Vince Cable, Theresa May, Sir Gerald Kaufman or Caroline Flint? | :05:04. | :05:15. | |
There's a challenge for you! At the end of the first half of the show, | :05:16. | :05:18. | |
Debra will try to give us the correct answer. | :05:19. | :05:22. | |
George Osborne says he is shocked, Vince Cable is appalled, Labour says | :05:23. | :05:25. | |
it's deplorable. Those are just some of the phrases used to describe the | :05:26. | :05:28. | |
latest allegations against the Royal Bank of Scotland. RBS is accused of | :05:29. | :05:32. | |
deliberately forcing some companies into administration in order to | :05:33. | :05:36. | |
seize their assets. Those are the allegations contained in a new | :05:37. | :05:39. | |
report into bank lending out this morning. The report has been | :05:40. | :05:42. | |
produced by this man, Lawrence Tomlinson, a wealthy entrepreneur | :05:43. | :05:45. | |
who made his fortune in the care home business. He focuses his | :05:46. | :05:51. | |
criticism on a division at RBS known as the Global Restructuring Group, | :05:52. | :05:54. | |
or GRG, which handles loans which are deemed to be risky. Mr Tomlinson | :05:55. | :06:01. | |
claims that some perfectly good companies have been engineered into | :06:02. | :06:07. | |
GRG, some of which then collapsed. He states that a perception has | :06:08. | :06:10. | |
arisen that the intention is to purposefully distress businesses, to | :06:11. | :06:13. | |
put them in GRG and subsequently take their assets at a discounted | :06:14. | :06:16. | |
price. Another review from the former Deputy Governor of the Bank | :06:17. | :06:19. | |
of England, Sir Andrew Large, into the lending practices at RBS is also | :06:20. | :06:29. | |
being published today. His initial findings earlier this month found | :06:30. | :06:31. | |
serious allegations of poor treatment by firms in financial | :06:32. | :06:40. | |
distress. With me now are the Shadow Business Secretary Chuka Umunna and | :06:41. | :06:43. | |
the Conservative MP, Brooks Newmark, who sits on the Treasury select | :06:44. | :06:47. | |
committee. Does this surprise you, Brooks Newmark? No. I have talked | :06:48. | :06:54. | |
about it since I first got on the select committee. All MPs get | :06:55. | :07:00. | |
constituents who write in and particularly focus on the banks, RBS | :07:01. | :07:05. | |
in particular. More than almost any other bank it has been driving | :07:06. | :07:08. | |
perfectly healthy businesses underwater. It is the allegation | :07:09. | :07:14. | |
that perfectly viable businesses, not ones that were struggling but | :07:15. | :07:18. | |
ones that were doing all right, were driven out of business? One argument | :07:19. | :07:29. | |
is perfect with healthy SMEs that suddenly have the goalposts moved, | :07:30. | :07:36. | |
there loan comes up for renewal and they are told they are no longer | :07:37. | :07:40. | |
lending to that sector. Once one bank says no, even if you are | :07:41. | :07:44. | |
healthy, no other bank will touch you with a barge pole. But you | :07:45. | :07:49. | |
accept that people are attached to their businesses emotionally, as | :07:50. | :07:55. | |
well as financially, and RBS under the banks were being put under huge | :07:56. | :08:00. | |
pressure to clean up their balance sheets, get rid of businesses that | :08:01. | :08:05. | |
could perhaps be viewed as difficult in the future, but not all of them | :08:06. | :08:08. | |
were viable and perhaps they were just doing what was necessary? All | :08:09. | :08:14. | |
banks need to clean up unsure of their balance sheets and provide | :08:15. | :08:20. | |
more liquidity, ie more cash. But they were driving perfectly viable | :08:21. | :08:24. | |
businesses underwater and not working through their restructuring | :08:25. | :08:29. | |
group. Businesses teetering on the edge, they drove them under rather | :08:30. | :08:34. | |
than saving them. You recognise this? We have had an ignoble -- | :08:35. | :08:42. | |
anecdotal evidence to that effect. But the central allegation of the | :08:43. | :08:47. | |
report is that RBS was systematically and artificially | :08:48. | :08:51. | |
distressing businesses with the goal of putting them under to seize their | :08:52. | :08:54. | |
assets and therefore profit from that. That is gravely serious. Vince | :08:55. | :09:02. | |
Cable is right to refer to the Financial Conduct Authority Amber | :09:03. | :09:05. | |
Prudential Regulation Authority, that RBS can do two things which I | :09:06. | :09:11. | |
think will give people confidence. -- and the Prudential Regulation | :09:12. | :09:16. | |
Authority. The RBS chief executive has two confirmed that the Global | :09:17. | :09:20. | |
Restructuring Group is not used as a profit centre but used to minimise | :09:21. | :09:24. | |
losses in respect of potentially distressed businesses. Just | :09:25. | :09:28. | |
confirming that fact, I think, would start on a road to giving people | :09:29. | :09:32. | |
confidence that they are not a rigging the system. The second thing | :09:33. | :09:37. | |
that needs to happen is the core problem that is identified as the | :09:38. | :09:41. | |
way in which the business's assets are valued. They are saying that the | :09:42. | :09:45. | |
way they are valued as skewed towards giving them an undervalued | :09:46. | :09:49. | |
so that the bank, through its West Register property owning arm, can | :09:50. | :09:57. | |
seize these assets. But the validation should begin and not just | :09:58. | :10:00. | |
to the bank but the businesses as well, so the valuation has a duty of | :10:01. | :10:04. | |
care to the businesses, not just the bank. I would like to know what RBS | :10:05. | :10:09. | |
has two say. We would like to hear from them, they are going to make a | :10:10. | :10:13. | |
statement. What happened to regulation? It depends which period | :10:14. | :10:19. | |
you are talking about. Post the crash, as we have seen recently with | :10:20. | :10:23. | |
the Paul Flowers case, it has been grossly lamentable. We wanted to see | :10:24. | :10:26. | |
a step change in the I think the point that Chuka Umunna | :10:27. | :10:44. | |
makes is correct, if they are trying to be a profit centre and prey on | :10:45. | :10:49. | |
weak businesses to put them under, that is a serious allegation that | :10:50. | :10:55. | |
must be dealt with. But you are talking about anecdotal evidence. | :10:56. | :10:58. | |
People will question this entrepreneur in residence, a | :10:59. | :11:04. | |
businessman who will have sympathy, rightly or wrongly, with the | :11:05. | :11:07. | |
businesses concerned. Are you absolutely sure that that very | :11:08. | :11:10. | |
serious allegation will be borne out, if you like? Our business | :11:11. | :11:15. | |
editor today says the bank is under huge pressure to get rid of the | :11:16. | :11:21. | |
zombie businesses, failing businesses, pressure from both your | :11:22. | :11:26. | |
government and your government put RBS under huge pressure. That is why | :11:27. | :11:32. | |
Vince Cable is right to have reverted to authorities concerned, | :11:33. | :11:40. | |
you are right to question the facts. I used to practice as a lawyer | :11:41. | :11:44. | |
myself, I did not do much insolvency, but posted 2008/2009 and | :11:45. | :11:54. | |
the holy nationalised nature of RBS, its management became more | :11:55. | :11:59. | |
centralised, there was less local discretion for relationship managers | :12:00. | :12:02. | |
and within the unit, which may have impacted on how people were treated. | :12:03. | :12:07. | |
To what extent did the incentive arrangements of those managing that | :12:08. | :12:11. | |
unit linked to what may have happened? There is another issue. | :12:12. | :12:17. | |
Potentially, to me, it would seem there are issues of legality, | :12:18. | :12:22. | |
whether this was lawful, what was going on. Do you accept that the | :12:23. | :12:29. | |
tripartite regulation under Labour failed? Wii there is generally a | :12:30. | :12:35. | |
consensus towards a light touch regulation, which obviously failed, | :12:36. | :12:39. | |
because we would not have had the global financial crash. In terms of | :12:40. | :12:46. | |
the tripartite system or the Twin Peaks model, I would refer to what | :12:47. | :12:50. | |
the former head of the FSA said in respect when he gave evidence to the | :12:51. | :12:54. | |
select committee when I was on it, you could have tweaked the | :12:55. | :12:58. | |
tripartite model and improved it all you could have had the current Twin | :12:59. | :13:02. | |
Peaks model, as it is now. But nobody in the overall system was | :13:03. | :13:08. | |
taking overall control of the financial stability. That system was | :13:09. | :13:17. | |
set up by Gordon Brown. You were not calling for heavy regulation, no | :13:18. | :13:22. | |
Conservatives were. There is a difference between heavy regulation | :13:23. | :13:25. | |
and better regulation. We have called for better regulation, not | :13:26. | :13:31. | |
necessarily more. The problem with the tripartite system is that | :13:32. | :13:38. | |
problems fell to even three stalls... When you have three | :13:39. | :13:49. | |
different regulators, things tend to fall between two. That was the | :13:50. | :13:56. | |
weakness of Labour's proposal. You are shocked and appalled as | :13:57. | :13:59. | |
everybody else by what might have happened. Deborah, are you as | :14:00. | :14:06. | |
shocked and appalled by the report? I think it comes alongside another | :14:07. | :14:13. | |
report about RBS and SMEs. I think the nation as a whole, the inexpert | :14:14. | :14:19. | |
nation, is throwing its hand up and saying, what will come to life? | :14:20. | :14:24. | |
Lawrence Tomlinson is essentially independent. If he had not asked | :14:25. | :14:29. | |
these questions, would we have known? What else is simmering that | :14:30. | :14:34. | |
might be uncovered to somebody's passion and investigative skills? I | :14:35. | :14:42. | |
think he has precipitated a proper process in respect of the | :14:43. | :14:44. | |
authorities who should look into this. He has done is a service. Why | :14:45. | :14:53. | |
did it need him to do that? In fairness to the Business Secretary, | :14:54. | :14:58. | |
he got him to do that. The problem is the regulators don't tend to be | :14:59. | :15:06. | |
popular with industry practitioners. He is highly sensitive to what is | :15:07. | :15:10. | |
going on with SMEs and he has ought to light a number of the issues. -- | :15:11. | :15:19. | |
he has brought to light. We have all seen similar anecdotal evidence as | :15:20. | :15:25. | |
MPs. What should be the sanction? You have talked about it perhaps | :15:26. | :15:30. | |
being unlawful. There is a question about whether civil liability | :15:31. | :15:34. | |
attaches to this and whether what we have seen is fraudulent and | :15:35. | :15:39. | |
criminal. In advance of the findings being delivered as a matter of fact, | :15:40. | :15:45. | |
it would be unwise of me to start hypothesising about what should | :15:46. | :15:48. | |
happen. But if the law has been broken in anyway, shape or form, | :15:49. | :15:52. | |
there should be a severe sanctions indeed. Criminal sanctions? With | :15:53. | :15:58. | |
something criminal has taken place, that should do it. We need to look | :15:59. | :16:04. | |
forward about dealing with the problem of putting healthy | :16:05. | :16:07. | |
businesses under, and how can the restructuring group itself do a | :16:08. | :16:11. | |
better job so there is a win for the bank and a win for the company | :16:12. | :16:15. | |
itself, meaning more of a chapter 11 US style restructuring. The process | :16:16. | :16:24. | |
is very opaque. The transparency... People can't understand what is | :16:25. | :16:29. | |
happening, partly because... People might want justice. Reign if people | :16:30. | :16:34. | |
are breaking the law and doing criminal things and engaging in | :16:35. | :16:39. | |
fraudulent mistake then people would expect to see them banged up. If | :16:40. | :16:58. | |
that is what has happened. These are friends, families and local | :16:59. | :17:01. | |
communities which are being impacted by something we are supposed to own | :17:02. | :17:13. | |
and control and it feels wrong. Clare's Law is being rolled out | :17:14. | :17:18. | |
across England and Wales. It was named after Clare Wood. She had met | :17:19. | :17:26. | |
her partner on Facebook and was unaware of her history of violence | :17:27. | :17:30. | |
against women. Hilary Fisher welcomes the new law but thinks it | :17:31. | :17:35. | |
should go further. This enables a woman to ask the police if there has | :17:36. | :17:40. | |
been evidence of a partner being a perpetrator in the past. Police may | :17:41. | :17:46. | |
find no evidence even though he is a perpetrator. We are asking, if the | :17:47. | :17:50. | |
woman has made this request and she thinks there is something wrong with | :17:51. | :17:55. | |
the relationship, the police should flag this up, make sure they | :17:56. | :17:58. | |
regularly visit but put her in touch with special services or she can get | :17:59. | :18:07. | |
support and information sheet needs. Norman, does it work? -- she needs. | :18:08. | :18:15. | |
It has worked. I went down to Wiltshire to see this in action and | :18:16. | :18:21. | |
to talk to both the police, other agencies and victims who have been | :18:22. | :18:25. | |
able to use this system, in order to get themselves a new start in life, | :18:26. | :18:29. | |
away from someone who might have committed domestic violence upon | :18:30. | :18:34. | |
them. How does it work? If you did meet somebody on Facebook or an | :18:35. | :18:39. | |
online dating agency, you're not necessarily going to call the police | :18:40. | :18:45. | |
and say, can you check the records? Can you do that? Are women being | :18:46. | :18:55. | |
encouraged to do that? Women were contacting the police to say, I have | :18:56. | :18:59. | |
heard something from a friend of mine about a suspicious activity | :19:00. | :19:06. | |
which was undertaken. Can you check this person out? That led to a 61% | :19:07. | :19:12. | |
disclosure rate. That included the fact there was nothing to disclose. | :19:13. | :19:19. | |
It gave, I hope the women that contacted the police a peace of mind | :19:20. | :19:24. | |
that they were secure or that they ought to get out. Relationship they | :19:25. | :19:30. | |
were in. Do you think that was a good thing? There is a difficult | :19:31. | :19:40. | |
question for the police in how much they reveal about what is | :19:41. | :19:43. | |
allegations as opposed to convictions. We get into the guilty | :19:44. | :19:48. | |
before proven and that is very difficult territory. It is an | :19:49. | :19:51. | |
interesting time we live in where so many of us are building | :19:52. | :19:55. | |
relationships by digital platforms. We do not have those references we | :19:56. | :19:59. | |
might have if it is a family friend we meet them through work or they | :20:00. | :20:03. | |
are at the same college. People are entering relationships with people | :20:04. | :20:09. | |
with whom they have no connections. We can build profiles for ourselves | :20:10. | :20:12. | |
on the Internet which are not accurate will stop what has made | :20:13. | :20:19. | |
this more necessary is that society as a whole is recognising domestic | :20:20. | :20:23. | |
violence as something which must be dealt with. It has to be taken | :20:24. | :20:29. | |
seriously. In some cases life loss has occurred. It is a crime | :20:30. | :20:39. | |
prevention. There is an issue about supporting women in a potentially | :20:40. | :20:44. | |
violent relationship. It is not always easy. What evidence shows is | :20:45. | :20:49. | |
that separated women are the most vulnerable. I agree with that point. | :20:50. | :20:58. | |
We are funding 144 independent domestic violence advisors. When | :20:59. | :21:03. | |
someone decides to separate with someone with domestic abuse | :21:04. | :21:08. | |
tendencies, there is a support network in place for them to reform | :21:09. | :21:13. | |
their lives. We have someone to help them stop absolutely. I entirely | :21:14. | :21:18. | |
agree that when someone separates, it is a very crucial time. Is in | :21:19. | :21:23. | |
that whether funding and focus should be? That is the most | :21:24. | :21:28. | |
difficult period. If some are not resources, people should stay put. | :21:29. | :21:33. | |
They have nowhere to go - there is no alternative. Some charities say | :21:34. | :21:35. | |
you would be better off putting money and resources there. This does | :21:36. | :21:42. | |
not require further resources. It is a matter for the police to make | :21:43. | :21:48. | |
available information. From a financial point of view, if you stop | :21:49. | :21:54. | |
one murderer or one serious assaults, it would be beneficial in | :21:55. | :22:04. | |
financial terms. It is about funding domestic violence advisers with | :22:05. | :22:09. | |
hotlines and so one. In most cases, abuses will not be known to the | :22:10. | :22:16. | |
police. They have never been reported in the past. People can be | :22:17. | :22:25. | |
repeat offenders and not have police records. Police will give | :22:26. | :22:34. | |
information about convictions. If someone has been found not guilty, | :22:35. | :22:39. | |
that information ought to be passed on with the proviso they are found | :22:40. | :22:44. | |
not guilty but that it did happen. We are trying to say, this is | :22:45. | :22:54. | |
information we had to hand. How is life in the Home Office? Very | :22:55. | :23:02. | |
interesting. I got a wonderful brief stop it dealt with wonderful people. | :23:03. | :23:10. | |
It is not about people who had domestic violence or rape but also | :23:11. | :23:15. | |
appalling exploitation. I am very keen to deal with this. Are you all | :23:16. | :23:26. | |
getting along? We are getting along fine. HG Wells says the newspaper is | :23:27. | :23:34. | |
about distinguishing between a bicycle accident and the end of | :23:35. | :23:38. | |
civilisation. Art for art's sake, money for God's sake. Not just a | :23:39. | :23:43. | |
'70s pop lyric, more a mantra for Britain's creative sector. But where | :23:44. | :23:46. | |
should that money come from - especially in a time of austerity? | :23:47. | :23:50. | |
There is a view that the current model of state funding is bloated, | :23:51. | :23:53. | |
London-centric and ripe for replacement by kind private backing | :23:54. | :23:56. | |
seen in places like the United States. Equally strident voices, | :23:57. | :23:59. | |
however, say public money is what keeps the arts vibrant and | :24:00. | :24:03. | |
accessible. We sent our David for a stroll along the South Bank to find | :24:04. | :24:05. | |
out more. Some of Britain 's natural treasures | :24:06. | :24:24. | |
- cathedrals and high art. To state fund the arts or not? Whether it is | :24:25. | :24:31. | |
no blood for a tax payer to stump up or for the arts to rely on wealthy | :24:32. | :24:41. | |
benefactors. -- more noble. This is an experiment and was started after | :24:42. | :24:46. | |
the war. It was not in the British tradition. Before that, Britain was | :24:47. | :24:52. | |
the country Shakespeare, Milton and comfortable and all the rest of it. | :24:53. | :24:57. | |
It was always the view that the state stands back from art. | :24:58. | :25:02. | |
Shakespeare accepted funding from the Lord Chancellor of his time. It | :25:03. | :25:09. | |
is only the state, the evidence is there are battled back something | :25:10. | :25:13. | |
which has not yet existed. The new is where the unknown and | :25:14. | :25:24. | |
untested... When we did War Horse, it was about people wandering about | :25:25. | :25:27. | |
with cardboard boxes on their heads. We had no idea it would turn into a | :25:28. | :25:34. | |
hit. The arts Council in England is facing a 5% cut in funding but is | :25:35. | :25:41. | |
likely to receive 348 million in tax this year. Some people think it is | :25:42. | :25:46. | |
time for others to pick up the tab. We are much richer than we have been | :25:47. | :25:51. | |
before. There are more super wealthy people. The problem is you have arts | :25:52. | :25:57. | |
funding through the state and it crowds out other alternatives. | :25:58. | :26:04. | |
Whatever the rights and wrongs, it is agreed that it is probably here | :26:05. | :26:10. | |
to stay. I see no one who will change how arts is funded. It will | :26:11. | :26:15. | |
be too bad and unpopular. Even if the results might be better and | :26:16. | :26:20. | |
create a more robust arts sector. More diverse sources of funding | :26:21. | :26:23. | |
might create more creative forms of art and we will get art away from | :26:24. | :26:29. | |
the long arm of the state. Why would you entrench on something which, | :26:30. | :26:33. | |
from the world 's perspective, we do very well? Why wouldn't you | :26:34. | :26:39. | |
celebrate that? I think these arguments are known very well. And | :26:40. | :26:42. | |
we're joined now by the Conservative MP, David Ruffley. We are right in | :26:43. | :26:50. | |
saying you are part of a group setting out a document that makes a | :26:51. | :26:53. | |
new case for investment in the arts and culture. Is this about survival? | :26:54. | :27:03. | |
Over the last decade we have not been sharp enough in articulating, | :27:04. | :27:10. | |
particularly to a new generation the importance of art investment. It is | :27:11. | :27:20. | |
about articulating those arguments. Going back to Keynes and looking at | :27:21. | :27:24. | |
his model, in the 21st century we should not be taking too much | :27:25. | :27:29. | |
attention as to the reason why he did or did not set up that council. | :27:30. | :27:43. | |
What about the benefits? Do they not understand and appreciate, as you | :27:44. | :27:48. | |
see it, the benefits of arts and culture. Where we need to do more | :27:49. | :27:59. | |
work and get more evidence is around the public benefit which derived | :28:00. | :28:04. | |
from the arts. In terms of educational attainment, students | :28:05. | :28:07. | |
from low income families are more likely to get a degree. It produced | :28:08. | :28:14. | |
cognitive abilities. It drove urban regeneration and had a positive | :28:15. | :28:20. | |
impact on well-being. There is emerging evidence we need to gather | :28:21. | :28:24. | |
that evidence and support Maria Miller and colleagues in government | :28:25. | :28:29. | |
who I believe want to support the arts. Are you convinced about the | :28:30. | :28:39. | |
benefits? It is not just an economic sector but that is not it. We are | :28:40. | :28:49. | |
world-class. My concern is we are not looking at more diverse ways of | :28:50. | :28:56. | |
funding. The taxpayer cannot in these tough times, we cannot rely on | :28:57. | :29:02. | |
the taxpayer. All parts of government are being cut back. Arts | :29:03. | :29:11. | |
and business says that only 2% of philanthropic league active | :29:12. | :29:18. | |
individuals give to the arts. There is not a history. Onto their tax | :29:19. | :29:22. | |
benefits for people giving so much money to the arts that do not exist | :29:23. | :29:31. | |
here? I think that is true. I do agree with Deborah that the arts | :29:32. | :29:37. | |
sector has sharpened its act up and realises how it can monetise with | :29:38. | :29:43. | |
online streaming of all sorts of ways of getting money from | :29:44. | :29:46. | |
performances. On its own, that will not do it. We need more individuals | :29:47. | :29:51. | |
behaving like America. That is relying on people coming forward. We | :29:52. | :29:55. | |
may see funding cut before that happens. Organisations like the | :29:56. | :30:02. | |
National Theatre, the Royal Opera House, organisations in London which | :30:03. | :30:07. | |
can leverage large donations, the public funding has reduced hugely. I | :30:08. | :30:11. | |
think it is a fifth. As for the Royal Opera House. We are finding | :30:12. | :30:15. | |
new ways to bring money into the arts. We have two began full of the | :30:16. | :30:19. | |
American model. What happens with arms length funding, it is difficult | :30:20. | :30:23. | |
to maintain but it is worth maintaining. You do not have the | :30:24. | :30:27. | |
repertoire and innovation creativity driven by a select group of | :30:28. | :30:32. | |
stakeholders. You have the ability to take strategic and longer-term | :30:33. | :30:35. | |
decisions which are good for the arts. Investment tries the creative | :30:36. | :30:44. | |
industries. These deliver 6% of GDP. They employ 2 billion people. 26% of | :30:45. | :30:49. | |
their supply chain comes through the subsidised arts sector. That is a | :30:50. | :30:51. | |
powerful argument. Up to the crash, ?0.6 billion of | :30:52. | :31:08. | |
donations went into the arts. I would expect soon for there to be | :31:09. | :31:14. | |
more donations privately, and then also this philanthropic gain would | :31:15. | :31:20. | |
rise. Do you want to cut public funding? A key statistic, this year, | :31:21. | :31:30. | |
?600 million is going into arts counselling gland. That is what it | :31:31. | :31:35. | |
was in the last year of the Labour government. The lottery is taking up | :31:36. | :31:41. | |
the slack in departmental funding. There is more lottery money going in | :31:42. | :31:49. | |
than under the Labour government. Lottery money is not Government | :31:50. | :31:55. | |
money, it is the people's money. What would you like arts funding to | :31:56. | :32:01. | |
be? At least four percentage or five per cent, because of the benefits | :32:02. | :32:06. | |
that it delivers. The arts deliver benefits across government agendas, | :32:07. | :32:13. | |
from health to... But do they deliver across the board in terms of | :32:14. | :32:16. | |
different parts of the population? There is a claim that it is London | :32:17. | :32:21. | |
centric. There is a challenge, without doubt. Artist 's help | :32:22. | :32:26. | |
collected in London, audiences have developed, traditionally, so you | :32:27. | :32:34. | |
have any college G. You can look at the BBC moving to Bristol and | :32:35. | :32:41. | |
Salford. -- so you have an ecology. Investment in the National Theatre | :32:42. | :32:44. | |
in 's across the country, and globally. Ditto the RSC. Where would | :32:45. | :32:55. | |
you make a saving? ?600 million goes to Arts Council England next year. I | :32:56. | :33:03. | |
don't care whether it is taxpayer funded or not, the lottery has shot | :33:04. | :33:08. | |
up in the last two years. We are giving less to environmental causes | :33:09. | :33:12. | |
and more to the arts. The government has made that choice. That is what | :33:13. | :33:17. | |
the lottery was initially intended for. But we should not remove | :33:18. | :33:23. | |
Government responsibility to fund arts. I don't think the ceiling is | :33:24. | :33:33. | |
falling in. Before you go, Deborah, the answer to our quiz, who chairs | :33:34. | :33:40. | |
the all-parliamentary dance group? Is it Vince Cable, Theresa May, Sir | :33:41. | :33:49. | |
Gerald Kaufman or Caroline Flint? I know Vince Cable loves the car and | :33:50. | :33:55. | |
-- the tango, Gerald has a strong interest in the arts. I will say | :33:56. | :34:01. | |
Gerald. Your powers of deduction, that might mean you get to spin | :34:02. | :34:04. | |
around the dance floor with Sir Gerald Kaufman. Thank you for | :34:05. | :34:08. | |
joining us. Now, let's look ahead to another | :34:09. | :34:11. | |
busy week in politics. Tomorrow the focus will be on Holyrood as the SNP | :34:12. | :34:14. | |
government in Scotland publish their long-awaited White Paper which will | :34:15. | :34:18. | |
outline the case for independence. On Wednesday morning the BIS select | :34:19. | :34:20. | |
committee will hear evidence from Vince Cable and Michael Fallon over | :34:21. | :34:24. | |
the Royal Mail sell off, and later David Cameron and Ed Miliband will | :34:25. | :34:30. | |
clash over the despatch box in PMQs. And on Thursday the Fresh Start | :34:31. | :34:33. | |
Group made up of Conservative MPs including Andrea Leadsom and Chris | :34:34. | :34:36. | |
Heaton-Harris will publish their EU Negotiating Mandate aimed at | :34:37. | :34:38. | |
assisting David Cameron as he attempts to renegotiate the UK's | :34:39. | :34:47. | |
relationship with Europe. I'm joined now from a chilly College | :34:48. | :34:50. | |
Green by Tim Shipman from the Daily Mail and Laura Pitel from The Times. | :34:51. | :35:00. | |
Welcome to you both. Tim, payday loans cup, whose victory | :35:01. | :35:07. | |
is it? I think it is Stella Creasy's. There is an interesting | :35:08. | :35:11. | |
debate going on between Labour and the Tories about who has responded | :35:12. | :35:16. | |
faster, but in both cases I think you could make an argument that it | :35:17. | :35:19. | |
is front benches against backbenchers. On the Tory side a | :35:20. | :35:22. | |
campaigner like Robert Karlsson has been arguing for control over fuel | :35:23. | :35:28. | |
prices, and Stella Creasy has been arguing to get to grips with the | :35:29. | :35:34. | |
payday lending industry. It is quite telling that both frontbenchers are | :35:35. | :35:41. | |
trying to jump on this round-robin, -- bandwagon. On the Labour Party | :35:42. | :35:48. | |
website, Stella Creasy is listed as this on the business team. That | :35:49. | :35:55. | |
seems under her abilities. Things might change. Laura, George Osborne | :35:56. | :35:59. | |
denying claims on the today programme that this was a U-turn. It | :36:00. | :36:06. | |
is? Yes. Previously it was said there was no need to impose a cap. | :36:07. | :36:12. | |
What is interesting with George Osborne this morning was his | :36:13. | :36:16. | |
shifting language about market. He moved slightly into Ed Miliband's | :36:17. | :36:21. | |
territory, saying he supports the free markets but sometimes you need | :36:22. | :36:25. | |
to intervene when they go wrong. Tim, are we seeing the Conservative | :36:26. | :36:35. | |
part of the Government abandoning Conservative laissez faire, | :36:36. | :36:41. | |
free-market policies? They are intervening on everything. That is | :36:42. | :36:45. | |
politics, you might say. George Osborne would argue that he is a | :36:46. | :36:49. | |
free marketeer, but that has to be tempered. Both parties have found | :36:50. | :36:54. | |
out over the last decade that leaving some of these industries to | :36:55. | :36:59. | |
their own devices is a recipe for financial disaster and political | :37:00. | :37:04. | |
ruin. Ed Miliband, the Labour leader, Desert Island Discs. A rite | :37:05. | :37:09. | |
of passage, you might say. What did his choice of music say? It made his | :37:10. | :37:15. | |
advisers grown. There has been debated in Westminster about whether | :37:16. | :37:20. | |
his choices were vetted. Some say they were so bad they could not have | :37:21. | :37:25. | |
possibly had approval, others are saying, you should have seen what he | :37:26. | :37:28. | |
would have chosen if we had not stepped in! It sounded more | :37:29. | :37:34. | |
authentic Ed Miliband than a spin doctor's choice, but what did you | :37:35. | :37:40. | |
think? One groans when you hear the South African national anthem was on | :37:41. | :37:44. | |
there, one of my colleagues argued that was a right on choice for North | :37:45. | :37:48. | |
London, picking Jerusalem was his attempt to placate the middle | :37:49. | :37:55. | |
classes. But to give him credit, he is not afraid to admit he is a | :37:56. | :37:59. | |
Boston Red Sox van before a foot all fan, same as myself. Take On Me, , | :38:00. | :38:08. | |
how could you fault a man who wore white trousers and dance to that? It | :38:09. | :38:15. | |
did say something about him, indicating what he was doing in the | :38:16. | :38:19. | |
70s and 80s. Did you learn anything new about him? Not just from the | :38:20. | :38:24. | |
music but the interview, Desert Island Discs has a knack for making | :38:25. | :38:29. | |
politicians go soppy and open up. That is the point. It was | :38:30. | :38:32. | |
interesting to hear him talk candidly about his brother and the | :38:33. | :38:38. | |
selection contest, there were noticeable size as the conversation | :38:39. | :38:43. | |
went on. If we were to ask in an interview about those sorts of | :38:44. | :38:47. | |
topics he would rebuff the question, but he softened up and talked about | :38:48. | :38:51. | |
that and his family, so we had more insight. Apart from being an | :38:52. | :38:59. | |
opportune the four PR, because they have all done it, Nick Clegg and | :39:00. | :39:03. | |
David Cameron, but you are reminded primarily, or at least I was, about | :39:04. | :39:08. | |
how he went up against his brother -- apart from it being an | :39:09. | :39:14. | |
opportunity for PR. He would never get through an interview with Kirsty | :39:15. | :39:17. | |
Young without talking about his brother, the answers were | :39:18. | :39:21. | |
interesting. Thinking back to David Cameron's Desert Island Discs, that | :39:22. | :39:24. | |
could almost have been written by one of those red top comp islands of | :39:25. | :39:31. | |
joke songs. He had Perfect Circle, Tangled Up In Blue. He picked This | :39:32. | :39:41. | |
Charming Man by the Smiths, which they regarded as outrageous and they | :39:42. | :39:47. | |
said he was not allowed to listen any more! | :39:48. | :39:50. | |
And joining us for the rest of the programme is the Conservative MP | :39:51. | :39:53. | |
Steve Brine, the Labour MP Luciana Berger and the Liberal Democrat MP, | :39:54. | :39:56. | |
Lorely Burt. Welcome to you all. Now to immigration because reports | :39:57. | :39:59. | |
suggest that the Prime Minister wants to prevent EU migrants from | :40:00. | :40:02. | |
claiming benefits until they've lived in the UK for a year. The | :40:03. | :40:05. | |
Education Secretary Michael Gove says Britain needs to make sure that | :40:06. | :40:09. | |
immigrants are coming here to work, not to take advantage of a generous | :40:10. | :40:12. | |
welfare system. Here's what he had to say on The Andrew Marr Show | :40:13. | :40:18. | |
yesterday. When it comes to new migrants from | :40:19. | :40:24. | |
accession countries in the EU, we need to look properly at the benefit | :40:25. | :40:27. | |
system to make sure people are coming here to work and contribute, | :40:28. | :40:32. | |
not take advantage of what is rightly a generous welfare system. | :40:33. | :40:38. | |
Steve, do you agree, would it be a good idea to extend the amount of | :40:39. | :40:44. | |
time before immigrants can claim benefits? Absolutely. Even if it is | :40:45. | :40:50. | |
in breach of EU law? I discussed this with the Prime Minister | :40:51. | :40:54. | |
recently. My constituents write to me about this. I was at a street | :40:55. | :41:00. | |
surgery in a lovely old Georgian market town, hardly a hot bed of | :41:01. | :41:06. | |
immigration, and it was raced repeatedly as an issue. It is always | :41:07. | :41:11. | |
the number one issue. But it might be against the law. The Prime | :41:12. | :41:16. | |
Minister is working with European fellow leaders and he is well placed | :41:17. | :41:21. | |
to do that, he wants to renegotiate the relationship with the EU. At the | :41:22. | :41:25. | |
end of the day, the European Union needs to lessen. David Cameron is | :41:26. | :41:31. | |
deadly serious. -- the European Union needs to listen. Lorely, the | :41:32. | :41:36. | |
Liberal Democrats will not support this? All governments and Prime | :41:37. | :41:43. | |
Minister 's are entitled to review and look up the laws relating to | :41:44. | :41:48. | |
benefits from time to time. No problem. I think some people forget | :41:49. | :41:54. | |
that if you take EU migrants in this country, they contribute over a | :41:55. | :42:00. | |
third more to this country than they take out. So we have to have a | :42:01. | :42:06. | |
balanced view. One might argue that the Lib Dems are not on the right | :42:07. | :42:10. | |
side of the argument, as far as many voters are concerned, the point that | :42:11. | :42:14. | |
Steve is making is that people are coming here primarily to claim | :42:15. | :42:19. | |
benefits. Would it be better to extend the time before immigrants | :42:20. | :42:23. | |
can claim benefits? People can't just turn up off the ferry and start | :42:24. | :42:28. | |
claiming benefits. There are several rules that they have to comply with. | :42:29. | :42:34. | |
Should it be longer than three months? They have to prove a link to | :42:35. | :42:40. | |
the country. There are a number of other things. They have to | :42:41. | :42:44. | |
demonstrate that they want to work and they are willing to work. | :42:45. | :42:50. | |
Again, there has to be some kind of a balance. The bottom-line of it, it | :42:51. | :42:55. | |
is more beneficial for us to have here. EU people, English people go | :42:56. | :43:03. | |
over to the EU as well. Where did you stand? Should the Prime Minister | :43:04. | :43:08. | |
pursue this attempt, whether or not he can, we will find out, but should | :43:09. | :43:14. | |
he? Crewe the over whelming majority of people who come to this country | :43:15. | :43:21. | |
do so to contribute and work. It was the shadow home affairs team and | :43:22. | :43:24. | |
Yvette Cooper that said nine months ago that there are things we could | :43:25. | :43:29. | |
do specifically on jobseeker's allowance, both domestic clear and | :43:30. | :43:33. | |
we should be having in Europe. -- both domestic league and we should | :43:34. | :43:40. | |
be having in Europe. We are not sure of the government position. You | :43:41. | :43:44. | |
mentioned it was 12 months, reports coming out from Number Ten today six | :43:45. | :43:50. | |
months. There is a principle here, you are saying you would back the | :43:51. | :43:55. | |
idea in principle, six months or 12 months. Would you like 12 months? We | :43:56. | :44:02. | |
would. And the reason... We can understand the reason, but is this | :44:03. | :44:08. | |
just bluster and politics? From both parties, Labour and the | :44:09. | :44:13. | |
Conservatives? EU law is EU law, you can't pick and choose. That is why I | :44:14. | :44:20. | |
think this is a much bigger picture about our relationship as members of | :44:21. | :44:24. | |
the EU, and without massively diverging we are coming onto that. | :44:25. | :44:28. | |
The Prime Minister is putting something out there and is | :44:29. | :44:33. | |
discussing with fellow leaders whether he can do this. We are | :44:34. | :44:36. | |
trying to make it more difficult and less attract for people who come | :44:37. | :44:41. | |
here and do not want to work. If they want to work, which many do, | :44:42. | :44:46. | |
they are welcome, there a Visa process for Bulger Aryans who want | :44:47. | :44:51. | |
to work. What is your reaction to the report today which says there | :44:52. | :44:54. | |
has been no restrictions on Bulger Aryans, no application has been | :44:55. | :45:00. | |
turned down and the Home Office shuffled their feet. Then nobody has | :45:01. | :45:10. | |
anything to worry about. Each case is considered on its merits. Do you | :45:11. | :45:20. | |
think we are pandering to anti-immigrant sentiment? It is | :45:21. | :45:23. | |
important that we acknowledge there are concerns, it is not bigoted to | :45:24. | :45:30. | |
have a conversation about it. But we need sensible policies, and this in | :45:31. | :45:34. | |
isolation will not deal with problems of illegal immigration, | :45:35. | :45:38. | |
issues of low skilled migration, which is probably one of the | :45:39. | :45:43. | |
greatest challenges. One Mark Harper looked at all the factors bringing | :45:44. | :45:48. | |
people to this country... Benefits was not a major poll. Know. But one | :45:49. | :46:04. | |
of the major things... We are not seeing things that would work. We | :46:05. | :46:09. | |
have seen people exploited living in overcrowded and overpriced | :46:10. | :46:15. | |
properties. We would like to see a register of landlords. Abbey | :46:16. | :46:18. | |
National minimum wage, people come to our country and they are not paid | :46:19. | :46:23. | |
the National minimum wage. Immigration is down by a fifth since | :46:24. | :46:28. | |
the general election. Net migration is not coming down. Two thirds of | :46:29. | :46:34. | |
that figure is British people leaving this country who are coming | :46:35. | :46:48. | |
back. Did you struggle to get to sleep last night? I may have the | :46:49. | :46:52. | |
solution for you. Newly published today: A 400 page bill with an extra | :46:53. | :46:59. | |
50,000 page environmental statement. Guaranteed to get your eyelids | :47:00. | :47:01. | |
drooping before you can say, quasi-judicial process. But the | :47:02. | :47:04. | |
Government's hybrid bill for Phase One of High Speed Two, that's the | :47:05. | :47:07. | |
London to Birmingham part of the controversial rail project, may not | :47:08. | :47:10. | |
give the Government pleasant dreams. Our Adam has been looking into the | :47:11. | :47:13. | |
technical details of a rather unusual piece of legislation. The | :47:14. | :47:19. | |
Channel Tunnel needed one in 1986. The last one was London 's Crossrail | :47:20. | :47:26. | |
in 2005. Now a chest to require is a rare form of legislation, a hybrid | :47:27. | :47:36. | |
Bill. It affects some private individuals like landowners and | :47:37. | :47:40. | |
requires a lot of paperwork. The bill is about 400 pages long. The | :47:41. | :47:49. | |
environmental statement is 150,000 pages. That is two of these. The law | :47:50. | :47:55. | |
has been changed so it can be published in electronic format and | :47:56. | :47:58. | |
the public has eight weeks to comment. Excuse me. At some point | :47:59. | :48:05. | |
will be a second reading debate and vote where the House of Commons | :48:06. | :48:09. | |
approved the project in principle. That is the moment when opponents | :48:10. | :48:13. | |
can give it the red light. It heads to the committee room where a panel | :48:14. | :48:19. | |
of MPs can consider the pleas of people directly affected. It is a | :48:20. | :48:24. | |
bit like a court. There are QCs present, sometimes in weeks. With | :48:25. | :48:30. | |
the Crossrail project, this took two and a half years. Some MPs did not | :48:31. | :48:37. | |
see it as an honour. I have voted against 90 did not see it as an | :48:38. | :48:39. | |
honour. I have voted against 90 detains detention of terror | :48:40. | :48:44. | |
suspects. The telling members of the committee have voted against the | :48:45. | :48:48. | |
Crossrail Bill. We'll so got the opportunity to spend two and a half | :48:49. | :48:52. | |
years on the committee of this hybrid Bill. It sounds like it is | :48:53. | :49:02. | |
quite a lot of work. It is. If all of that is inconvenienced by | :49:03. | :49:06. | |
something like an election, not a problem, MPs can vote to carry it | :49:07. | :49:13. | |
over to the next session. Will it ever amount to more than those boxes | :49:14. | :49:16. | |
we saw being pushed across the roads? They are all protesting | :49:17. | :49:23. | |
outside now. Will it ever get online? I hope so. It is really | :49:24. | :49:28. | |
important we get on with this and get on with it as soon as we | :49:29. | :49:36. | |
possibly can. In Japan, they introduced the bullet train in | :49:37. | :49:41. | |
1964. In 2064, we could still be running on the same row way be | :49:42. | :49:46. | |
introduced in the Victorian era. We need to think about not just the | :49:47. | :49:51. | |
immediate future but the long-term future for this country and the | :49:52. | :49:55. | |
prosperity and jobs in this country and linking up the Midlands with the | :49:56. | :49:59. | |
South and the North with the Midlands and the South. Nothing will | :50:00. | :50:04. | |
be more powerful to achieve that prosperity that we all want. We | :50:05. | :50:10. | |
thought Labour were behind it as well. Will Labour back it? We have a | :50:11. | :50:22. | |
responsibility to make sure this project is on track and within | :50:23. | :50:31. | |
budget. There have been concerns. I support this, as does Labour. It is | :50:32. | :50:43. | |
absolutely crucial. The North/South line leads to jobs and growth. I am | :50:44. | :50:48. | |
sorry it has taken three and a half years. We are still having many | :50:49. | :50:53. | |
consultations and the phase two investigation is only just launched. | :50:54. | :51:06. | |
That pressure and scrutiny has actually made the government work | :51:07. | :51:10. | |
hard at keeping the cost down, hasn't it? They did do a service in | :51:11. | :51:17. | |
some ways, didn't they? The government is fading constituents | :51:18. | :51:21. | |
money, that is what we will do. What about when high-speed two is put | :51:22. | :51:29. | |
forward? It does not affect me I think we need to do this it is about | :51:30. | :51:40. | |
capacity. I am interested. People say, do not back it. It is either | :51:41. | :51:46. | |
that or investment in our part of the world. There is huge investment | :51:47. | :51:52. | |
going into south-west rail in our part of the world. This is part of | :51:53. | :51:58. | |
the future. You do not think it will be redundant. There is a huge | :51:59. | :52:05. | |
capacity crisis at the moment. This is there to meet that. I am a bit | :52:06. | :52:13. | |
confused as to what Lucianne is saying. Aren't Labour saying two | :52:14. | :52:17. | |
separate things? Aren't they not backing it because they are worried | :52:18. | :52:23. | |
about the cost but the Northern councils... They are quite aghast at | :52:24. | :52:30. | |
those comments. They want it so much. There seems to be some | :52:31. | :52:34. | |
schizophrenia with both the major parties. The Shadow Chancellor has | :52:35. | :52:41. | |
ultimate responsibility. When this project was first put forward it was | :52:42. | :52:51. | |
in the region of 30 billion. It is now 50 billion it is Labour | :52:52. | :52:54. | |
amendments which will ensure if there is to be a substantial and | :52:55. | :52:58. | |
disband or overspend, they will have to come to Parliament and present it | :52:59. | :53:06. | |
and debate on it. What about the 40 or 50 Conservatives who might rebel | :53:07. | :53:16. | |
it is a hugely controversial project. He has not convinced them, | :53:17. | :53:27. | |
or anyone. When you get 1000 letters from constituents, that does impact | :53:28. | :53:31. | |
on constituents. It is damaging to him. He is putting forward a project | :53:32. | :53:36. | |
about the future and asking Parliament to support him. I think | :53:37. | :53:40. | |
and hope and believe that is what happened. The majority of parliament | :53:41. | :53:46. | |
will back him. I suspect the Laban party will back him. -- the Labour | :53:47. | :53:52. | |
Party. Whoever is in power will need cross-party support. You are | :53:53. | :53:57. | |
confident it will end up happening. We are supposed to have support by | :53:58. | :54:08. | |
2017. I hope they do get control of the budget and get this plan back on | :54:09. | :54:17. | |
track. Members of the media have compared Ed Miliband to Wallace | :54:18. | :54:20. | |
dashed the cheese loving children's character of Wallace and Gromit | :54:21. | :54:24. | |
fame. Yesterday, the Labour leader was happy to pile on the cheese. He | :54:25. | :54:28. | |
appeared on Radio 4's Desert Island Discs, with some truly fromage-y | :54:29. | :54:31. | |
music and provided a bit of an insight into himself. There is some | :54:32. | :54:41. | |
flash photography in this film. This is a cheesy choice. It is Take On | :54:42. | :54:51. | |
Me. I cannot understand me without understanding where I come from. My | :54:52. | :54:55. | |
dad had a particular political outlook, which is not the same as | :54:56. | :54:59. | |
mine. It is a big part of what inspired me. | :55:00. | :55:07. | |
My parents loved this country. When the Daily Mail wrote, the man who | :55:08. | :55:15. | |
hated Britain, the reason I hated that so much is because it is so | :55:16. | :55:19. | |
much at odds with the way I think about this country. | :55:20. | :55:31. | |
You said, David is my best friend in the world, I love him dearly. Is he | :55:32. | :55:42. | |
still your best friend? Yes but it has been incredibly tough. She | :55:43. | :55:46. | |
offers me protection, a lot of love and affection, whether I'm right or | :55:47. | :55:54. | |
wrong. The difficulty for many people is the perception that here | :55:55. | :55:59. | |
is a man heading this party who will put party loyalty before family | :56:00. | :56:03. | |
loyalty and many people do not find that palatable. Do you get that? I | :56:04. | :56:09. | |
understand that. I do understand that. It is hard for my family and | :56:10. | :56:15. | |
hard for David. Very hard. I suppose I felt it was the right thing. Does | :56:16. | :56:20. | |
it feel that things have healed? Healing. | :56:21. | :56:30. | |
I read that you did not have the girlfriend all the way through | :56:31. | :56:40. | |
Oxford. I was pretty square. How very honest of him to admit that. | :56:41. | :56:46. | |
Does it surprise you that he did not have a girlfriend through Oxford? We | :56:47. | :56:51. | |
have had reports of many women who were interested in him. He said he | :56:52. | :56:57. | |
did not have a proper girlfriend. You could be a spin doctor. Any | :56:58. | :57:03. | |
surprises? You said that was a good choice. Ed Miliband is never going | :57:04. | :57:10. | |
to be, and probably never was, mystical. I am sure they didn't sit | :57:11. | :57:16. | |
down in the office and think, what should be put together? They | :57:17. | :57:20. | |
probably thought, let him be him. I would love to go on it and I would | :57:21. | :57:26. | |
pick Fleetwood Mac and the Carpenters. You may get that call! I | :57:27. | :57:33. | |
love the idea of the jumper and trousers. I had black slip on shoes | :57:34. | :57:41. | |
with white socks. Too much information. Did you listen to it or | :57:42. | :57:49. | |
have you heard it? I quite liked his song choice, in the main. The South | :57:50. | :57:56. | |
African national anthem, Jerusalem, just lovely. Can you seeing any of | :57:57. | :58:02. | |
them for us? Not right now will stop it might be the end of my political | :58:03. | :58:09. | |
career if I did. Does it surprise you that David and Ed are still in | :58:10. | :58:19. | |
the healing process? They are both moving in different directions. It | :58:20. | :58:24. | |
was fairly amazing at the time. People said that was the most steely | :58:25. | :58:28. | |
thing he had done until recently. Do you think that image will linger? | :58:29. | :58:36. | |
The backbone? It was a brave thing to do, go against your brother and | :58:37. | :58:42. | |
beat him for the leader. That is history now. We will not judge him | :58:43. | :58:52. | |
on his music choices. We had Jerusalem at our wedding. On that | :58:53. | :58:57. | |
happy and jubilant note, we will end it there. From all of us here, | :58:58. | :58:58. | |
goodbye. | :58:59. | :59:01. |